Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[thezmon221]

Yo.

Normally, with me being the first poster (or among them), I'd have some sort of gag/gig to announce, like a self-inflicted post restriction, a crazy plan, some sort of 'crumb, or maybe a fakeclaim, to get the game going. Unfortunately, I neglected to actually think of anything to use in advance, so I'm going to just wing it a bit, here.

I'm town.

Vote: thezmon221

.
Probably not town.

Discuss.

He's obviously scum. Mastin, though, is probably the towniest of the town.

Scum found. And I have a case!

hi guys.

Look at this post.
Just look at it!

The abomination! The damnation! The blasphemy!
This post, ladies and maidens, is a scumpost that reeks the foul odor of scuminess!

hi

Oh, look at this foul aberrant buddying!
And it's only page 1!
With this post only, I can clearly see fery, behind the monitor, literally trembling with fear, hoping this subtle buddying attempt would grant her a "obvtown" status!
Not a chance, lady!

guy

Among these seemingly friendly post lurks the totally scum-motivated damneous post!

If you translate "guy" to Arabic via the sacred Google Translate, you can see that "تنكر" is one of the result.
And guess what that mean?
"deny, disguise, masquerade, disavow, renounce"

Do not fall for this posts, my maids and maidens, for she is secretly mocking us and backstabbing us, just like that!
With this, we can already lucidly imagine her evil mind and dexterous and sly those damned typing fingers!

For we can not stand for this total wretchedness, we must purge this thread with fire!

(Besides, it's morph the cat.)

VOTE: morph

My name is thezmon221 and I agree with this post.

VOTE: Morph the Cat

If X head in a hydra doesn't sign, can you please give me a distinguishing feature of their posts? I've played with almost all the people in the hydras, though not all have been in hydras, much less with one another, in games I have played with them (except Morph; very vague memory of that game).

[thezmon221]

Scratch that, I HAVE played with everyone in hydras.

[thezmon221]

-snip-

What an odd set of circumstances. It just so happens that:

I claim miller-tracker

Are we all claiming now?

In that case, I'm a Cult Recruiting Lyncher.

So, you drew that scum card...
How do you plan on going about getting town lynched without being obvious about it?

Wording here's a bit of a loaded question, wayne. But to answer--a scum-me will aim to manipulate town players into being paranoid of one another for the long-term mislynches, while on the short-term, allowing compromise lynches. (A town-me almost never compromises on lynches because compromise lynches are a surefire way to lynch town players. )

how are you not reading me as town?

Because I want to have perfect 100% accuracy in reading you, meaning I want to wait on that callout to make sure.

VOTE: thezmon221.

VOTE: mastin2

[thezmon221]

Isn't it clear? He's clearly trying to mount a mislynch so early in the game against an obviously pro-town player.

[thezmon221]

Can y’all take a minute and recognize that I claimed a Cult Lyncher in the same post I voted Mastin?

Not loving thezmon221 caring about his wagon here:

Isn't it clear? He's clearly trying to mount a mislynch so early in the game against an obviously pro-town player.

VOTE: thezmon221

Oh, and I'll usually remember to sign my posts; Ghostlin will probably use a non-black font color for his when he's not talking to the mod. And if there's cursing/yelling at people/being unsociable, that's also probably him...

--PA

PA you break my heart if you think I *actually* care about a clearly spam vote on me.

Isn't it clear? He's clearly trying to mount a mislynch so early in the game against an obviously pro-town player.

okay why the hell is it I can't seem to tell if any of these posts are serious or not @_@

I was being frivolous. Or maybe it's a reaction fish. Granted, I didn't really expect it to garner much attention, but take it for what you will.

Might as well use those reactions, though. Bro’s post kind of sums things up decently well:

Regarding the second thing, I took what thez said to be a roundabout way of saying "I'm RVSing with OMGUS." In particular, I'm cueing in on the word "obviously" as an indicator of sarcasm. The fact that penguin (and a few others) have latched onto that seriously is concerning.

Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?

Sorry. I feel no pressure.

^ is that abrasive enough for you morph

From what I've played with V, he looks town.

Actually, yeah, fuck it, I've just amassed a WAY better case against you, pieguy. zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.

Can you please explain your case on me? All I've gathered is, "Bro, you OMGUS'ed Mastin in a sarcastic light, which is scumfuck."

Are you... strawmanning?

i don't like the continued flippancy from thezmon.

Que?

[thezmon221]

Can y’all take a minute and recognize that I claimed a Cult Lyncher in the same post I voted Mastin?

Not loving thezmon221 caring about his wagon here:

Isn't it clear? He's clearly trying to mount a mislynch so early in the game against an obviously pro-town player.

VOTE: thezmon221

Oh, and I'll usually remember to sign my posts; Ghostlin will probably use a non-black font color for his when he's not talking to the mod. And if there's cursing/yelling at people/being unsociable, that's also probably him...

--PA

PA you break my heart if you think I *actually* care about a clearly spam vote on me.

Isn't it clear? He's clearly trying to mount a mislynch so early in the game against an obviously pro-town player.

okay why the hell is it I can't seem to tell if any of these posts are serious or not @_@

I was being frivolous. Or maybe it's a reaction fish. Granted, I didn't really expect it to garner much attention, but take it for what you will.

Might as well use those reactions, though. Bro’s post kind of sums things up decently well:

Regarding the second thing, I took what thez said to be a roundabout way of saying "I'm RVSing with OMGUS." In particular, I'm cueing in on the word "obviously" as an indicator of sarcasm. The fact that penguin (and a few others) have latched onto that seriously is concerning.

Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?

Sorry. I feel no pressure.

^ is that abrasive enough for you morph

From what I've played with V, he looks town.

Actually, yeah, fuck it, I've just amassed a WAY better case against you, pieguy. zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.

Can you please explain your case on me? All I've gathered is, "Bro, you OMGUS'ed Mastin in a sarcastic light, which is scumfuck."

Are you... strawmanning?

i don't like the continued flippancy from thezmon.

Que?

[thezmon221]

Oops, forgot to post intended post #2:

Pie/V is TvT.

{ BRO, PA/Ghost, mastin, morph, pie, psych, V}
{Wayne, newearth}
{Mac, Mafia, Muffin}

Vast majority of my reads are gut/feel reads. Only probably 3-4 are legit backed with evidence.

Second slot is scum.

[thezmon221]

re thez: that you didn't take that as tongue in cheek still concerns me.

What do you mean? I'm not following you...

Explain, then?

I took it as cheeky, and I find early cheekiness towny.

It was the turn of phrase, which looked a little overworked, like thez spent some time thinking about how to say it. GiF calls this "forced".

I took like three seconds to write it. I joke about a fake claim, making an obvious joke OMGUS on Mastin, and lo and behold, we somehow got a shitstorm of a wagon on me. But most of the people on the wagon are probably town.

[thezmon221]

I'm hearing some conf bias about a ridiculous read on thezmon221.

What? It's ffery?

I thought you knew better.

[thezmon221]

I guess I just assumed that since we played together recently (albeit for a short period of time), that you might know such things.

Then again, I came into the game like 80 pages (of hell) in.

[thezmon221]

Right.

It's interesting though, that your initial reaction is sort of wtf aren't you reading me properly.

Taking that under advisement.

It's more I'm feeling sad that everyone is misunderstanding my light-hearted post and running away with it as a legitimate reason that I'm scum. Which is retarded.

I'm sensing some possible "flow-going" with this post. you just posted that me vs. Varsoon is town v town but doesn't give a specific read on either of us?

Because, you know, if I call something a TvT argument, that means that the people having the argument are scum, right? *facepalm* think about what you're saying before you say it.

And nope, I don't go with the flow with my reads, even as scum. Everything here is as legit as.. well... something legit.

I'd also like an explanation for your scumreads on wayne/TNE.

For wayne, I felt a lot of it had to do with the argument with Varsoon. It seemed really nitpicky in an effort to look useful, but realistically not argue about anything worthwhile. Kind of like arguing about theory. In my experience, they're more often scum than not. TNE is gut.

I took like three seconds to write it. I joke about a fake claim, making an obvious joke OMGUS on Mastin, and lo and behold, we somehow got a shitstorm of a wagon on me

nah. well, maybe that's what some people thought was scummy about you, but i was thinking you were scum from your first post. i didn't like anything about it, and the concern for which head of each hydra was posting felt like you trying to fake town concern for this.

why am i a null read btw?

and why are you still voting mastin if you have a scum read on wayne and TNE?

Why is it a "fake town concern" if I want to know who is posting what? I've had expsure to each of the hydra heads, and everyone reads everyone else differently; that is no different for me. I pick up a different read on Nacho than I do of GiF (though Nacho is probably easier for me since I have little exposure to GiF). I literally ask that to every hydra I have no exposure to in a game. It's one of the first things I ask just about every time if it's not blatantly obvious. It also helps if I want to use some meta, as is the case with Varsoon from his FTL hydra with MS.

You're null because I can't quite figure you out yet, but I don't really have a gut reading.

I'm still voting mastin because I haven't decided what I want to do yet. Yes, I have scum reads on wayne and TNE, but they're both weak reads, and I don't know which path to take. I like more concrete evidence than gut. One thing you'll learn about me if you didn't know: Unless I have to compromise, I just about never (disregarding some circumstances in the past) vote to lynch someone with strictly meta or gut, unless either is REALLY, REALLY strong. The only way I emulate either of those is with either playing with them on my off-site (as is the case with Aj, and I know I was wrong in Xeno on D1, but I figured it out after I was out of the game with his Traitor; that's typical Aj right there), or have played a TON with them before.

Oh, and because it doesn't hurt anybody that my clearly RVS vote is on mastin right now.

2. His "frustration" looks quite different from xeno. In xeno, his frustration contained more hate, if you know what I mean. Not here. The tone of frustration looks totally different.

This is what I think, too. He feels a LOT more town than before, and I feel stronger about the pie/V argument being TvT than I did about any argument involving him/MS in Xeno.

[thezmon221]

It's more I'm feeling sad that everyone is misunderstanding my light-hearted post and running away with it as a legitimate reason that I'm scum. Which is retarded.

She ran off to a phone call for a while, but our talk earlier this morning had her liking the response to our line of inquiry.

From me? (Sorry, took me a second to remember that people can potentially live across the world from me; I'm EST, so my last posts were at around 9:00 EST).

[thezmon221]

Huh that's weird.

Ffery, what caused that? I personally don't see anything in my post that would change your stance, personally.

[thezmon221]

That makes more sense. When you said in the morning, I kind of took that post (and my response) out of that picture.

But alright. I'm slowly confusing myself as this conversation goes on, and I don't know why, because it seems really basic in concept.

And that PST is good to know for future reference.

[thezmon221]

4. MafiaSSK- this matches an interesting meta-tell blackmailed from natirasha about ssk/does not match paradox-town-ssk\

So how strong is this...

PEDIT: I see strong enough to vote.

Care to disclose this meta? Is it about him voting for himself in RVS?

What I see in his two posts is:

1. Vote himself in RVS, perhaps to avoid confrontation like what I had
2. A question that isn't followed up upon.

[thezmon221]

I wouldn't be surprised if you had at least some meta on me, considering we've played a few times together.

However, I don't really see what you're referring to. Are you looking for me to check out a specific game other than Paradox? In Paradox (which you mentioned), I noticed that in his first 203 posts he DID have more substance about him, but the game had far more substance in it than this game did when SSK posted. There was more to comment on.

I'll keep it in the back of my mind, though.

[thezmon221]

I just had a derp moment and now realized what that quote was. Feel free to disregard my post, though it does still hold true somewhat.

[thezmon221]

Why is it a "fake town concern" if I want to know who is posting what?

because i don't remember you asking questions about which head posted what or anything similar to that in any of the other games i've played with you. granted, i've never seen you play from the very beginning, but i don't ever recall you being overly concerned with figuring out which head posted what.

Because in those games, Xeno particularly, I was able to figure it out after 80 pages of posting. FTL signed, and I figured out TF (can't remember if they sign).

Yes, I have scum reads on wayne and TNE, but they're both weak reads, and I don't know which path to take.

so how are you going to decide? you're not exactly questioning or commenting on either one of them.

Well, right now I'm reading wayne's interactions with others, since I have some actual reason for his scum read. For TNE, I'm not sure. I don't usually do too well in early scumhunting because I don't find early interactions very engaging.

oh thezmon had a scumread on me?

it was so crappy I didn't even notice...

Look at this shitty posture right here.

Like, are you THAT concerned with other people that you reverse psychologically bash a GUT read?

Like, I even SAID it was gut, and is not very strong. Try reading more, and being ignorant less.

[thezmon221]

Because, you know, if I call something a TvT argument, that means that the people having the argument are scum, right? *facepalm* think about what you're saying before you say it.

can you at least give a specific reason behind it being TvT then?

Reading Varsoon here as opposed to as in his FTL hydra in Xeno, he is substantially townier, since I got into a head-on argument with him there and was convinced he was scum (and he was). He's a bit more... laid back, I supposed. Emotions don't seem to fill him up as much.

Considering that, your reactions and rebuttals don't look scum either, and I'm also accounting for the fact that most D1 arguments are TvT anyways.

also, what's your thoughts on wayne's attack on Varsoon/zmuffin?

I think his attack on Varsoon was stupid and useless, and garners a scum read. I also think he’s getting cornered by muffin for legitimate reasons, and is flailing about. Not sure if that is town, and probably requires further evaluation. Once again, he is arguing about something stupid there. He seems to like stupid arguments that don’t further the game.

Huh that's weird.

Ffery, what caused that? I personally don't see anything in my post that would change your stance, personally.

That's really bad. Like one of the cardinal types of things you never say, bad. Still like muffin, but damn...

VOTE: Thez

I'm sorry that I'm doing self-evaluation and was confused why a statement would change ffery's mind about me being scum, even though nothing new really was brought to the table?

Come to think of it, I'm not sorry. You look like you're just trying to get heat off of you from other people, and are flailing, as I stated previously.

And the word "personally" in that statement (particularly the redundancy of useage) indicates Thez is being less than truthful.

Reach more.

After that, holy shit what a turn of events. Pie you are squirming after a single vote? Sounds like noobscum to me. Let me reread that last part where Morph called for a scumslip...

Oh yeah,

VOTE: waynegg

-shitty arguments with V/muffin
-constantly reaching
-doesn't provide anything useful.

Might consider SSK, and I'm gonna look at that last interaction real quick with morph and pie.

[thezmon221]

Oh yeah, and his crap reason for voting Varsoon earlier.

[thezmon221]

The scumslip looks a bit rough to me, Cabd. I was in LOTR for a brief period of time, though, too and pie nailed it on the head with the mechanic. Right now I don't think the "slip" holds much credence, but it could use some reevaluation if more were to light a path to pie's scumminess.

[thezmon221]

Yup, I omgus'ed you. You hit it right on the head, wayne.

/sarcasm

But seriously, I had you in my scum list before you even considered me. I just now have more ammunition and consider you a viable choice for lynching.

Flail hard scumshit.

The scumslip looks a bit rough to me, Cabd. I was in LOTR for a brief period of time, though, too and pie nailed it on the head with the mechanic. Right now I don't think the "slip" holds much credence, but it could use some reevaluation if more were to light a path to pie's scumminess.

Somebody isn't at all aware of the kind of shit I do to test reactions. That person's forum name is thezmon221.

I like living in my own world; what can I say?

[thezmon221]

@morph: back to my other question, do you think we can go for a wayne wagon? also, has any of this changed your reads on anyone?

Why do you feel wayne is scum? I didn't see any indication of such earlier.

Pie you are squirming after a single vote? Sounds like noobscum to me. Let me reread that last part where Morph called for a scumslip...

this is probably really stupid, but there's so many good players in this game that I feel kind of out of my league. then when one of them called "scumslip" and seemed confident about it, when he (she?) was in fact completely wrong, I got scared and just felt like crying. especially when they were townreading me before, the shock factor hit me really hard. and it messed up my thought process, and I feared no one would believe my explanation, and I became overcome with paranoia that I'd die on D1 even though I have a confirmable role. feel free to insult me but this should explain it

You learn from playing. Try to keep up with all the people playing here, learn what you can about different tells and such, how to scumhunt or whatever, and keep on going. We won't stop to lynch you if we think you're scum, but if we think you're town and you contribute, then all should be good.

The problem is that you look extremely scared of being lynched after a single vote has been placed on you. We need 7 to lynch, and in my experience it's mainly the newbies, and more often newscum and newtown, who flail over 1-2 votes. I might give you the benefit of the doubt, but mostly because I feel much better about a wayne lynch.

[thezmon221]

Before the day is over is fine, but realize that sofitng and then revoking it is tantamount to a scumclaim.

no offense to pieguy, but i don't think he's the kind of player that's capable of lying in this way as blah blah

First, wth using my words cabd.

and then this. it's always this. like predictably, day one this. such a boring phrase. used up like Betty White.

I love how you changed muffin's post.

Like seriously, what was the point of that? Oh, and the whining.

[thezmon221]

No, I'm just trying to fathom why you would do such a thing.

Do you really want attention that much?

[thezmon221]

@zmon: here's where I started taking note of him. I haven't formally sorted him yet but this is making him lean null-scum for me.

Updated and sync achieved.

think we could go for a wayne wagon? him stating that Varsoon is scum then me and Varsoon is a town v town seems sketchy as hell tbh.

now that I look at it closer, I seriously don't get it. his whole point was that because you weren't voting me you weren't taking a definitive stance, and that would make it buddying? I fail to see how not voting me matters, and how you "buddying" Varsoon directly follows from that, as opposed to following from what you were saying. I still think that there might have been some buddying going on (mb I'm biased tho), but I fail to see what the vote has to do with any of it. also, I think it's pretty obvious what your stance was by your posts after my tl;dr case, so I'm not sure if his point about not having a stance is valid in the first place.

Alright. You asked me earlier (or at least, iirc it was you) what I thought of his interactions with Varsoon and muffin. So now I ask you, what do YOU think of them? Feel free to quote and such if you want. I'd rather a complete thought over some watered down version.

The problem is that you look extremely scared of being lynched after a single vote has been placed on you. We need 7 to lynch, and in my experience it's mainly the newbies, and more often newscum and newtown, who flail over 1-2 votes. I might give you the benefit of the doubt, but mostly because I feel much better about a wayne lynch.

yeah.. but when it's morph incorrectly claiming a "scumslip"? that's like if you're holding an empty gun, and it explodes, and causes smoke to come out, and then having a police officer accuse you of holding the smoking gun. ugh that just fked my whole thought process up big time

Didn't think I'd say it at this point of the game, but wayne's got it right in post 465. Worst thing you can do is flail and get really intimidated. You'll never learn how to deal with these situations that way.

[thezmon221]

@pie: Pretty much everyone in this game is a pretty good player. Some of us have played longer than others and have more experience, but I don’t really see anyone who stands out as a “best” player in the crop.

his attack on varsoon seemed fine at first, but it turned out it wasn't really an attack? however, now that I think about it again, I kind of think he has a valid idea in alerting Varsoon to zmuffin, but then I'm still not too sure his point in zmuffin was valid in the first place. if he's not scum, there's probably scum "flow-going" by saying his attacks were bad, since I can understand what he might be going for here.

The 180-190 range is around where the VvWayne argument takes place. Basically, Varsoon called you scum, and then wayne called Varsoon scum for the same reason Varsoon called you scum, even though the way the two of you played out the argument was different. Then, the two got into a brief argument about diction, which I found extremely retarded.

And yeah, it’s probably a safe assumption that scum can go with a popular opinion. The trick is finding out who is doing so, hence bussing.

@pie: I don’t remember you mentioning muffin or Varsoon independently, however. Can you tell me what you think of them? I suggest reading through your argument with him, but try taking a different angle at it (not necessarily that other people are saying TvT), because when people get into heated debates with others, and get an indication of scum early on, it’s common for them to succumb to conf bias (which leads to these TvT arguments), so retrospect reading helps.

[thezmon221]

I'm wondering why you're questioning someone who can confirm himself as town though 0.0

Unless you're IC, the only way to do this is to die.

Or a tree stump.

So yeah, how about we get back to the game instead taking up teaching roles and meta talk.

I don't know if you've noticed, but:

1. Meta can help a read when used correctly (though I prefer not to use it in very large doses).
2. I've been asking questions of pie regarding reads and recent circumstances. It just so happened that on the side of that was talk about experience between the two of us, and pie and Cabd. So unless YOU have something you want to say, go along your not-so-cheery way.

kkthxbai. I have nothing for you right now.

[thezmon221]

Meta...schmeta. I've seen it used just as many times to screw up games as to help them. Learning and applying real investigative skillz is the way to go. Using something that can be so easily manipulated to provide the results you want it to provide is fairly flimsy. Particularly when peepz go so far as to say things like player x is acting like player y from game A and the apply those actions to their actions in game B which they're playing. Which in itself ignores they are two completelyeffinglydifferent people with two completelyeffinglydifferent mind sets in a game with a completelyeffinglydifferent setup and mod.

Real in game investigative skillz>meta schtick by far

Keywords here: "used properly." Maybe you should try reading a book. It might help your reading comprehension.

That's not very nice weenie dog! I have something for you...

13. zMuffinMan
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien)
10. thezmon221

Is there another BFF?

Yes, you also forgot:

BRO
Mastin
Morph the Cat
Pie
Psychlone
Varsoon
Mac

That’s called the “town” in some mafia games.

[thezmon221]

Keywords here: "used correctly." Maybe you should try reading a book. It might help your reading comprehension.

This is what I get for not reviewing my posts.

[thezmon221]

Yup

What's your point? Reads change over time, bro. Just because I don't say so right as they do doesn't mean they are static. Last I checked, it's still largely consistent either way. I don't see you putting up a reads list.

Some people sure do care a lot what they look like

It's called "clarification." If I cared what I looked like, I wouldn't be so sarcastic all the time. ESPECIALLY with that vote on mastin earlier. Misrep me harder, bro.

That’s called the “town” in some mafia games.

i'm a town read now? when did that happen?

Weak, but town nonetheless. Most of that came from interaction with wayne earlier. And it’s still got some gut in there. Gun to my head I’d say you were town, but I wouldn’t inscribe it in stone.

I'm dropping hints that I don't interact with scum reads. And somehow I'm the retarded one...

The sad part is you don't even have a real reason for thinking I'm scum. Not even your gut has told you such.

nothing after that makes me want to change my read on him. mb I overrate redirecting onto other people as a scumtell, but the sequence of actions I posted in my tl;dr case would make sense as scum. looking back on it, his frustration seemed genuine, but I still don't know if it's genuine town or genuine scum.

So gun to your head, what do you say?

yeah that's bullshit. you spent most of your time in xenogears interacting with AJ despite scum reading him from your replacement, and you were scumreading me there and still interacting with me in that game. e.g. this post where you both interact with me and call me scum, or this post shortly after it. you also interacted with ghostlin, and other people you were supposedly scum reading.

You don't even need to go and quote Xeno. He was interacting with me earlier, and I

assume

he has a scum read on me. He's just a pile of contradiction and hypocrisy.

[thezmon221]

Also, if there's a cop in this game, please claim now.

I don't see the benefit of a cop claiming right now.

^scum who feels like they're caught for the wrong reasons

^^^^^^^A complete dumbass who has no idea what he's talking about and has lost any credibility he *may* have had prior to this post.

Go ahead and provide reasons why I'm scum, though. Oh wait, I challenged you earlier and you stalled me then too. You know who

stalls

pretends to miss such a challenge in an effort to get the challenger to forget the request?

Scum.

Can we lynch him now, please?

[thezmon221]

Go ahead and provide reasons why I'm scum, though. Oh wait, I challenged you earlier and you stalled me then too. You know who

stalls

pretends to miss such a challenge in an effort to get the challenger to forget the request?

I'm waaaiting wayne.

Oh yeah, and there's a difference between me caring about how people look at me, and trying to figure out motivations and reads of people. I'm doing the latter, not the first. Might want to notice I didn't go apeshit with 4/7 votes on me.

[thezmon221]

Hey waynegg. You should try proving I'm scum instead of making empty comments that bear little-to-no meaning.

[thezmon221]

So, instead of this:

Hey waynegg. You should try proving I'm scum instead of making empty comments that bear little-to-no meaning.

You've decided you're going to pretend you know what I'm thinking, despite being completely and totally wrong?

Good to know you're less useful than a sack of shit.

[thezmon221]

Look. I'm not going to be too many more retards, lying pieces of shit, sacks of shit, and dickheads before I stop turning the the other cheek and start making complaints. I'm not even playing. Stop. If that's the best you've got that's just sad.

Then maybe you should start, you know, actually show that you want to play by actually working with others in game. Just because you

think

I'm scum because you

think

you know what I'm thinking doesn't mean you're right. It doesn't mean I'm scum. For all you know, I could be a Survivor. I'm trying to scumhunt just as you supposedly are trying to do, and at this point you're being a complete detriment to the entire town and are playing in an anti-town manner. Even if I was scum, there are others who would benefit from the information.

I challenged you to show me why I'm scum other than making a speculation on my thought process, which is 100% inaccurate and a massive misrep of my state of mind. You have yet to live up to my challenge, and continue to say, "oh, he says he's not concerned with his image, but he clearly is," when I've already rebutted that argument. This is how a debate works. You bring up a point, I rebut it and bring up a point and you rebut and we go on. You not "associating" yourself with your scum reads is a grave mistake. That's how you get yourself into your shit tunneling.

[thezmon221]

I do my thing the way I do my thing. I'm not going to deviate from that just because a couple of whiney scumbutts want me to do something different. Nor am I going to debase myself to stoop down to their level. If those two don't like it, they can sit on it and spin. Everyone who's played a couple or a few games with me, while they may not approve of or understand the means, know the ends are good. Deal with it. You aren't getting any more out of me by using my town reads to do your dirty work either.

I beg to differ. I've seen a few of your games, and I'd stick to my original conclusion that you're a detriment to the town. I see the town getting by just fine without you when you're town.

It's simply astounding how stubborn you are with a failed method.

[thezmon221]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=29747
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29170

Two examples of you being wrong in your reads D1.

I didn't bother reading more games after finding these two. And I only checked maybe three total.

Spoiler: Reads list in Game #2

Bolded is scum
Fence Climbing Puppies (Null)
Frequency
Miszu
MP5 (SE)

startransmission (IC)

Poopie Puppies (Scum)
TheIrishPope (SE)


Cuddly Puppies (Town)
Voodoo Lady (SE)
SuperMafiaMan

Starstorm

So I go back to my original statement that you are constantly making empty comments and are being detrimental to the town wincon.

[thezmon221]

So I go back to my original statement that you are constantly making empty comments and are being detrimental to the town wincon.

Do you think he's scum?

I do think he's scum. Not specifically because of his stubbornness to help the town, but because of earlier reasons stated. It is a tad weaker, since I don't see scum doing this stubborn act too often, but it's still the best scum read I have.

[thezmon221]

It seems more like you're arguing that he's terrible at reading you than that he's scum.

At this present time I haven't been arguing he's scum. I've argued hes a detriment to the town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=29747
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29170

Two examples of you being wrong in your reads D1.

I didn't bother reading more games after finding these two. And I only checked maybe three total.

Spoiler: Reads list in Game #2

Bolded is scum
Fence Climbing Puppies (Null)
Frequency
Miszu
MP5 (SE)

startransmission (IC)

Poopie Puppies (Scum)
TheIrishPope (SE)


Cuddly Puppies (Town)
Voodoo Lady (SE)
SuperMafiaMan

Starstorm

So I go back to my original statement that you are constantly making empty comments and are being detrimental to the town wincon.

So a marathon where there's little time to speak, much less think things through thoroughly and a Newbie where a nailed50%. You call those good examples?

Null =/= scum. You got a 0% in a Newbie.

And you said in games. Not to mention, the majority of your games are marathon games, so I'd suspect you had some kind of experience with thinking things through quickly. Either way, you said to give examples where you're wrong. I did exactly that.

Either way, I'm done arguing with you. It's like arguing with a brick wall.

[thezmon221]

nailing 50% of the scum in a newbie game is rather admirable. gotta give him credit where credit is due.

No, not really. I'd rather not, especially since he played a number of games prior to/during the Newbie game.

[thezmon221]

Mara already crumbed using TIP as her personal tool to further her wincon while being very tactfully null on the rest of her statement. She's right I suppose.

She

certainly seems absolutely sure of it.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mara

Reads change. Especially on e people started actually posting, not that it matters here.

GiF was in that game. Let him weigh in.

I love how my reads are not allowed to change, but yours are (Post 485/6).

Seriously, talk about a double standard.

But fair enough, 50%. I'm still done arguing about the subject.

[thezmon221]

Spoiler:

Oops, forgot to post intended post #2:

Pie/V is TvT.

{ BRO, PA/Ghost, mastin, morph, pie, psych, V}
{Wayne, newearth}
{Mac, Mafia, Muffin}

Vast majority of my reads are gut/feel reads. Only probably 3-4 are legit backed with evidence.

Second slot is scum.

That's not very nice weenie dog! I have something for you...

13. zMuffinMan
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien)
10. thezmon221

Is there another BFF?

Yes, you also forgot:

BRO
Mastin
Morph the Cat
Pie
Psychlone
Varsoon
Mac

That’s called the “town” in some mafia games.

You're telling me these don't look similar? Correct me if I'm wrong, and I implore you to do so, because I very well may be wrong, but that is very, very consistent. I took two people out of null and placed them into the town slot. SSK remains untouched, and I still have my two scum reads.

And I don't usually provide reasons for my reads unless:
A: Someone requests an explanation.
B: I am voting for the person.

As for the voting and latching onto you think, that's just the kind of misrep you've constantly been doing. I've been saying you're scum since post 242. Back then it was more gut-based, though it still had reason. I was succumbed to the circumstance that there was a long amount of time between my post voting for you and your interactions, so you simply beat me to a vote. That does not mean I OMGUS'ed you, because I didn't.

You don't even have a real reason for voting me. Almost all of your points are moot.

[thezmon221]

but you're not going to do that because you don't have good reasons.

Welcome to my world.

[thezmon221]

And a scene of evidence =/= evidence of absence, so you might should stop ass u me

None of this makes sense. Can you please fix it so it has no typos?

[thezmon221]

I love how you have me as scum because of an overemphasis.

Oh, and because I asked someone else why they thought you were scum, even though I had already established my stance on you.

[thezmon221]

You may not think its much, but it's more than there is on anyone else. And this

http://liespotting.com/liespotting-basics/words/

Which I believe in for good reason

Oh I don't simply think it's not much, I think it's nothing at all.

Then again, I can't confirm I received a town PM, but I can tell you I did. Not that you'd believe me. I'm not even convinced you'd ever consider the fact.

And the easy off you set up

Can you explain this, please? I don't exactly know what you're saying.

[thezmon221]

Here, you're setting up any easy off from me (since you know I'm town) to get on Pie later once it becomes apparent you can't have me.

Swing and a miss. If that were true, I wouldn't have pie in my town list. That's called scumhunting. I'm looking for pie's motives and reads. Only way I'd know you're town is if you flipped town on death, or were confirmed some other way by the mod.

[thezmon221]

Prod dodge. Post later.

this will happen eventually and it will be the most amazing post that was ever posted.

just wait.

I sense a trend coming from SSK.

[thezmon221]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

This is Varsoon. Varsoon don't give a shit. He just takes what he wants.

But seriously, I'm pretty sure he's town, even if I don't agree with his viewpoints. Oh well. Time to go to sleep for me. See y'all in about 15 hours.

[thezmon221]

UNVOTE: waynegg
The preemptive claim has me wondering what his rush was.
Also this:

Well, see, the last time he said something like that to me he wanted me to play bait to his fishing excursion. I resisted then not knowing what he was on about. This time I hop right on and wigglewigglewiggle and he abandons his rod. Looks like the bait caught the fisherman this time.

VOTE: Morph

interesting theory. how come you have just taken up on it though when it happened 300 posts ago?

as far as i can tell you have been reading morph as town, or at least interacting with them, then as soon as i've brought this up you are all over them?

Because in those games, Xeno particularly, I was able to figure it out after 80 pages of posting. FTL signed, and I figured out TF (can't remember if they sign).

right. so why did you not ask early on in that game (before 80 pages) or wait for 80 pages in this game?

Because I replaced in at about 60 pages and decided to catch up before posting real formalities and such.

Unless I'm remember incorrectly and it was a different game, not the Xeno game that recently ended.

It's been a long time since I've been engaged on this forum.

I still feel like there's some oddness to the way thezmon words stuff, and it worries me a little. I'm going to find some time to read other thezmon games today or tomorrow.

That's probably my kryptonite, just going to warn you. I have found myself to be consistent in wording things that make sense to me, but not to other people unless I've played with them a lot. And I don't have a ton of exposure to y'all, except maybe Nacho. It's why I get a lot of pressure on D1s almost all the time, and then hit a stride and start pulling weight. For lack of a better explanation.

But you might be better off just reading, if you want.

VOTE: thenewearth

-Honestly, apart from his rage against BRO, in Post 350, I haven't seen much value in his posts. Not to mention, he harps on BRO in said post for commentating, but does the same himself, except for that post.
-PoE
-I can't fathom how you guys got a legitimate scum read on MafiaSSK.

Oh yeah, and his reads list looks a lot like he's just going with the flow.

Spoiler:

And those 5 pages

Were pretty much nothing but insults and the likes.

So... >.>

I'd just leave this here.

BRO scumz
Ghostly Penguine Null-town because of his latest post
Mac null
SSK null
mastin gut-town
Morph town
pie town
psychlone town
tezmon null-scum
varsoon town
wayne scumz because of the exchange with muffinman
muffin town ^

TNE, can you elaborate on your scum reads? All three of them.

[thezmon221]

Hey mastin, I have a present for you:

Spoiler: Reducing space with a snip

Let's be honest here: When isn't this the case? I don't know if I have played a game with mastin as town where he

hasn't

waffled. It certainly was the case last Xeno game and he flipped town.

I'm totally going to go Bert on y'all and point out how we're wagoning easy players. (For the most part.)
TNE, not exactly a strong player.
MafiaSSK, not exactly a strong player.
Wayne, not exactly a charismatic player.

If you make me a case on morph, I'll consider it. For now, I think wayne might actually be town, and I'm not touching SSK with my vote until he gets his arse in here. PoE has me more-or-less on TNE. However, I consider you a townread of mine, and you are sending off some pretty decent vibes, so I feel that working together will be very beneficial.

[thezmon221]

UNVOTE: waynegg
The preemptive claim has me wondering what his rush was.
Also this:

Well, see, the last time he said something like that to me he wanted me to play bait to his fishing excursion. I resisted then not knowing what he was on about. This time I hop right on and wigglewigglewiggle and he abandons his rod. Looks like the bait caught the fisherman this time.

VOTE: Morph

interesting theory. how come you have just taken up on it though when it happened 300 posts ago?

as far as i can tell you have been reading morph as town, or at least interacting with them, then as soon as i've brought this up you are all over them?

Thez can't be assed with reading since scum don't have a need for it.

Oh, don't be mistaken, I read it. There's a difference between me reading it and me believing it. I think after retrospective evaluation that you have a possibility of being town, but I'm going to wait before I come guns out and call it. I want to see how things develop more with the revelation you have, unfortunately, provided.

Hey mastin, I have a present for you:

Spoiler: Reducing space with a snip

Let's be honest here: Yada Yada blahblahblah

Because he wasn't being honest prior to this apparently...

Go ahead with your conf bias, I don't really care.

[thezmon221]

That's you're problem then, isn't it. And yes, noting and latching onto speech pattern inconsistencies and fatal scum flaws and pushing that read is no longer known as scum hunting. It's having

confirmation bias

...

Not entirely, but when you go ahead and paint every single fucking thing I say in a bad light and misrep the fuck out of me?

Yeah, that's conf bias if I've ever seen it.

I also fail to see how me hesitating to call you town is

my

problem. Newsflash: It isn't my problem. Might not be yours, but it ain't mine.

Oh yeah, and go ahead and show me these fatal scum flaws I supposedly have. You've failed to do such. Oh, and you say my speech pattern is consistent with this lying post you have? You have 1,

maybe

2 examples (and the second one is a

big

maybe). You gotta try better than that if you want to go balls deep in shit on your scum read on me.

[thezmon221]

No. It was more a reaffirmation.

[thezmon221]

Yeah, I'm not responding to wayne anymore with the way he keeps referring to me.

[thezmon221]

Yeah, I'm not responding to wayne anymore with the way he keeps referring to me.

Pretty double standardish owing this came from you:

You gotta try better than that if you want to go balls deep in shit on your scum read on me.

You took that the wrong way, then. I was simply saying you basically damned me to your scum list for all of eternity. I see no indication of a change in that.

[thezmon221]

TNE do you have any reads that don't just match what everyone else is saying?

every one of those reads seems like it just matches the popular opinion of those players.

also, what's your opinion on morph's "scumslip"?

Why do people keep saying this when I'm not under any real pressure and nobody other than TNE has me as their first choice for scum?

That's really the only outlier.

[thezmon221]

honestly, i think that's more of a habit than a tell

That's all it is: a habit I developed a while back. Literally wayne is the only one who has cared enough to make an entire scum read based off of it, and I write out those phrases a fair amount in my games. Granted, I don't do it all the time, but I sometimes have had a strange... urge, I guess you could call it, to write them. It's sometimes how I talk in real life too. You've spotted no lies in my posts.

honestly,

i think that's more of a habit than a tell

And you of all people should know, after Xenogears, to let someone answer their own questions and their own heat.

Care to explain why you aren't getting all hellbent on this?

Would just like to point out the inconsistency in your reads, and your liespotting.

[thezmon221]

I could hear the obvious sarcasm there

There is no sarcasm, only waynegg inconsistency.

[thezmon221]

Sorry I slacked yesterday; I got Call of Duty Ghosts. Probably won't do much tomorrow either. I got plans.

I love how people be hatin on the lurkers.

Fuck this.

VOTE: MafiaSSK

if the mafiassk wagon goes nowhere, i'll probably join the bro wagon.

oh, and i'm not gonna be around much for the next 48ish hours.

See, this is just way too opportunistic. He's just going for the easy wagon. No reasoning behind why he would switch to bro. Minimal on why he has his vote on me. It's cray.

Hey, here's the problem. There's just about only one reason TO vote for you: You lurk like hell. You have what, 4 posts in this game? IIRC, you also ask an obvious af question to look like you were contributing when you really weren't.

[thezmon221]

Fair enough. I do suppose lynching a lurker is a totally useful and totally informative lynch.

Useful in that someone who's not even trying to play will not affect the rest of our gameplays in future times, and informative in that we have a wagon to analyze.

So I agree with you.

[thezmon221]

Fair enough. I do suppose lynching a lurker is a totally useful and totally informative lynch.

Useful in that someone who's not even trying to play will not affect the rest of our gameplays in future times, and informative in that we have a wagon to analyze.

So I agree with you.

How are you feeling about TNE's recent posts?

I didn’t read the PbP, firstly.

Regarding Post 886, however, her case does have a strikingly decent amount of merit. By that post alone, I would say she’s town. However, overall she’s more null-town due to earlier posts.

and yeah, I still have to use my shot on D1 or else I lose it. the only fake part was shooting in thread

Why the fuck haven't you used it yet, then? Sounds like wayne's right and it was a scum gambit imho.

[thezmon221]

Disregard that last part. Missed the last paragraph of Post 985.

[thezmon221]

EBWODP:

Yeah, I read it. And it sounds to me like he's content being useless and lurky. If you don't have a real strong read, I'd go ahead and shoot him since he doesn't sound like he wants to change his game.

Sounds like wayne's right and it was a scum gambit imho.

You think scumpie makes a dayvig gambit, gets SSK to claim, and then thinks he can walk away without getting lynched into the fucking ground when no dayvig shot goes off and day one ends?

It's not out of the question.

Why would town-anybody make such a gambit if not for reals?

[thezmon221]

I would wait a bit, then.

Why would town-anybody make such a gambit if not for reals?

hint: it's a reaction test

look at how we're all talking about his reaction :>

Yes, let's go ahead and mark everything that looks like it could be a reaction test to be a reaction test since the action is inherently scummy (causing the test).

Do you realize how many times I've seen scum get away with/I have gotten away with the excuse?

I find this amusing because I fucking love gambits and reaction tests as

both alignments.

See: paradox prime, AMOL, achievement unlocked, xenogears....

My point exactly.

I can see an overeager beaver noobscum here.

[thezmon221]

Once again, this is a moot point because we can just lynch pie if there's no shot.

Which means it was a scum gambit, right?

So not a moot point... Just unnecessary conversation.

with a fucking dayvig and the reaction I got is heavily scum anyway? no thx

I thought you said it was obvtown.

[thezmon221]

MafiaSSK's very first post after I made that shot leans obvscum (sad that he got shot without really being pissed off about it). the rest of it leans town but it could be because he realized the shot might be fake = = kind of conflicted on the read I got from him.

I thought you said it was obvtown.

I sure as hell never saw pie say this. Where?

This is where I thought pie said obvtown, but my memory failed me here. The context makes more sense now, though, because I switched obvscum with obvtown. My bad.

[thezmon221]

NO, GODDAMNIT, NO. HOW ARE THESE BULLSHIT REACTION TESTS STILL FUCKING ALLOWED? They're bullshit! They don't tell anything! Guess what? I'm still town. I'm still whatever my flavor name is, I'm still a freaking VT. No, my first post after the fake shot was not a scum post. You know why? Because I was actually starting to give two shits about this game and then vigged. But screw it! Shoot me if you want pieguy. But these reaction tests are just dumb.

What if I told you...

You could prevent the dayvig.

But, there's one condition.

Play the fucking game, give two shits, and be useful rather than a lurker.

[thezmon221]

I guess technically that's three conditions, but they're all linked regardless.

[thezmon221]

are you fucking kidding me

vote zmon

Why, again?

So after the SSK flip, I’m going to need a bit of time to read over some stuff and figure out where to go from there. I have too many town reads and not enough scum reads, so you’ll have to give me some time.