Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[pieguyn]

1. BROseidon <- town
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien) <- mafia
3. Mac <- town
4. MafiaSSK <- town
5. mastin2 <- town
6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd) <- town
7. pieguyn <- town
8. Psychlone (GuyInFreezer + Nachomamma8) <- mafia
9. thenewearth <- town
10. thezmon221 <- town
11. Varsoon <- town
12. waynegg <- town
13. zMuffinMan <- mafia

vote: Ghostly Penguin

[pieguyn]

no I'm pretty sure of those reads ~

[pieguyn]

I'm dead serious

for now why don't you try to figure out how I got those reads ww

[pieguyn]

I have my ways

keep it coming ~

@morph: do you think that's a town-tell?

[pieguyn]

in fact I'm townreading him mostly cause of this

4/10. Not nearly as good as mastin's

Wait that's not a joke?

IMO, shows legitimate confusion. but as you said it's a really light towntell and could be faked

[pieguyn]

Also, all players in this game are female, as we are 2hu.
So if I write she instead of he, it's 'cus I know.

you pronounced it wrong

[pieguyn]

13. zMuffinMan
^Eh, will figure him out later, but null for now.

how are you not reading me as town?

Scum found. And I have a case!

that's actually rather solid, but i want to give morph a chance to defend himself before we lynch him

Vote: thezmon

I can't tell if this post is serious or not, which in RVS seems like a bad thing

[pieguyn]

claiming tracker on the first freaking day. ok </3

can you plz explain why you wouldn't just claim miller? I don't get it @_@

[pieguyn]

what the hell kind of crossposting is this I don't even

@BROs, morph: so how do you like the chance that GIF/Nacho used his special moment in a scum game?

[pieguyn]

like holy wow, I've seen crossposting before but not like this

[pieguyn]

Bullpoopoo and that's all I have to say about that.

wayne are you even reading the thread

[pieguyn]

like, really

[pieguyn]

penguin_alien checking in here, antennae twitching, wings flapping in fewer than a dozen posts. mastin2, why vote for the player who is scummy versus the one who's probably scum?

is this a crumb or what

and what's your opinion on BROs?

[pieguyn]

Isn't it clear? He's clearly trying to mount a mislynch so early in the game against an obviously pro-town player.

okay why the hell is it I can't seem to tell if any of these posts are serious or not @_@

if serious, what makes you think he's trying to mount a mislynch?

[pieguyn]

why don't you say hi to someone who's posted

like me

[pieguyn]

or are you trying to distance yourself from your buddy

[pieguyn]

^ opportunistic as fuck

vote: Varsoon

[pieguyn]

IMO it'd be a lot better if he just wanted to get on a wagon. but he tried to throw some reasons in there for getting on the wagon, making me think he was just trying to seem natural

[pieguyn]

bork how the hell did you do that

0.0

[pieguyn]

^ opportunistic as fuck

vote: Varsoon

Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?

while it's true that it doesn't place it in danger of a lynch right now, it still does at least 2 things

1. it might force a claim out of him
2. it allows you to just sit there and look like you're doing shit without actually looking anywhere to find scum. also a good point because you hardly posted anything besides what's related to getting on the wagon

what you said is also the easiest defense against this argument and I'm compelled to think you're scum because of it

I'm not following you here. So, despite not taking part in RVS, you think I'm eager to be on a wagon?
And that having legitimate reasons for being on a wagon is scummy?

Huh.

Do you want to talk to me about it? I mean, the reasons I have for joining the wagon are exactly the ones I stated, but if you're think that there's some deeper meaning behind it, we can chat.

anyone on the wagon is responsible for anything that might happen as a result of wagoning him

thus, it looks good to put "reasons" when you wagon someone so you can just say "but I srsly thought he was scum because xxx" if it goes wrong

[pieguyn]

I would put that chance at roughly whatever chance there is that they'd role scum in any given game, minus the fact that I have a slight townread on them right now.

Please don't ruin this moment for me.
I worked hard on it and was waiting for quite a while to use it

then what do you think about that post? ^

also an open question for morph

I took that as tongue in cheek.

I actually don't know what this means LOL. can you explain

[pieguyn]

while it's true that it doesn't place it in danger of a lynch right now, it still does at least 2 things

*him not it sry

also achievement unlocked http://puu.sh/55n4L.png o/

[pieguyn]

If that's not the question, you'll have to point it out to me.

I was referring to how he apparently "waited" to use that masterful case, which goes against your hypothesis that he would have used it immediately

[pieguyn]

unless it wasn't supposed to be serious

[pieguyn]

@morph: I see

what's your opinion on Varsoon atm?

Is this a serious concern?

sry for confusion that was referring to GIF's post. I couldn't tell if pretty much anything people were saying in RVS was serious or not, and I didn't get the whole joke about the "hi guys".

VOTE: VarsoonVOTE: that jump was crazy awkward, and it's roughly where you jumped on the low-hanging fruit wagon last time as scum (5th on TD, 4th here)

if this is true I'd go so far as to say we've caught scum #1

[pieguyn]

I'm actually convinced that he runs a script on the thread that auto-posts to catch the top of page.

that'd be pretty amazing actually

when I mod games (there's none here yet don't look) I don't even try to catch the top of the page and instead just link all the votecounts in the first post cause that's too hard for me ;w;

[pieguyn]

Jeeze, you guys are annoying. If I did anything in this game, you'd be crying scum about it.

seriously, this argument? no thx

Tempted to revoke my vote, but, nah. I think that zmon is scum. The fact you guys came out of the woodwork to criticize my vote makes me sure there's scum between the three of you, and that's a damn good start for this game.

1. OMGUS
2. that's exactly what you did to zmon. you just came out of nowhere and was like "hey he's scum" right when someone else started eyeing him. you're not getting away with this :>

[pieguyn]

"hi guys" has been a running joke for a while.

sry I'm new here so I didn't know

[pieguyn]

^ is that abrasive enough for you morph

[pieguyn]

So, in conclusion, your logic is terrible, your reasons for voting me are artificial, contrived, and scummy. All of the same 'points' you made about me joining the zmon wagon are equally applicable to BRO joining onto my wagon, pieguy. But he gets a free pass with no scrutiny? Why is that?

this one seems like attempting to redirect suspicion onto BROs

[pieguyn]

Furthermore, you're discrediting me at every turn, which is a typical disarming method used by scum. You're not interested in asking me questions or sussing me for any sort of information behind my vote, you're just condemning my slot and trying to suffocate me.

If anything pisses me off in this game, it's when players devalue what other players have to say.

okay here's a question
what makes you think I'm just trying to devalue what you say, instead of actually believing what you said is scummy? as it is, you've given no reason beyond me being scum, making this logic circular.

No, you shitlord, it's me questioning why you don't make the same arguments against every player, but cherrypick your scumhunting.

because I have a townread on BROs, while I had no such townread on you.

If anything, it's critical of you more than BRO, because it shows a hiccup in coherency and logic in your play.

so you saw your redirection wasn't going to work, and thus realized your only option was to try to defeat me directly?

FURTHERMORE, nice try to appeal to OTHER PLAYERS instead of immediately answer my question.
It's not rhetorical, so get to it.

excuse me for working together with other people...

zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.

1. I have no completed games with you. how would I have any way of knowing you're an easy mislynch?
2. this implies my vote on you was intended towards a lynch. now let me requote this

^ opportunistic as fuck

vote: Varsoon

Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?

you claim that your vote on him didn't put the slot in danger of being lynched. so why do you assume my vote puts you in danger of being lynched?

Actually, yeah, fuck it, I've just amassed a WAY better case against you, pieguy. zmon very well might be scum, but I think you're scared of the idea of Town-varsoon crushing you. I know that I'm an easy mislynch early, and you could probably pull it off, but you've tripped over yourself trying to do so, and I've exposed you.

VOTE: Pieguyn

Good luck trying to get me to budge. I've got my hooks in you, and you've already dodged my questions once. Answer them now, or just give up, scum.

so now you're just going to discredit everything I've done? after accusing me of discrediting what you've done? no thx

You also have a REALLY awkward preoccupation with communicating directly to Morph and BRO. I picked up on this when BRO voted me immediately after you, thinking it was a little awkward that you'd have so much back and forth with him in game and then he'd support your vote and try to build on your case for you, but what really tipped me off to this was when I asked you a question and your immediate post following that was "is that abrasive enough for you morph?"

Why are you so preoccupied with those two players, specifically?

again, excuse me for working together with other people

let me know if I missed anything

[pieguyn]

speaking of asking questions, let me put your jump on zmon here for reference

I don't like zmon's level of activity coupled with his lack of serious content and I really don't like the moves made in 85 and 83.

I'm also scum-reading zmuffin, but that's because I don't believe the PGO claim and I always scum-read zmuffin. I was even scum-reading zmuffin in Xenogears. I had to constantly check to make sure he wasn't on my team that game.

Anyforwho, Sivir rework! Going to play League now.

Oh yeah forgot to do this:
VOTE: thezmon221

not a single question in there.

you jumped on him apparently because you thought he was scummy? why can't I do the same?

this shows a greater "hiccup in coherency and logic in your play" than anything I've done so far ~

[pieguyn]

when I quote something you've done and say "no thx" or something similar, that is me directly saying your argument is false. there is no need to "critically respond" to something that makes no sense. if I do you can just twist my words around. I'm putting an end to it by just calling immediately that it makes no sense.

re: "scumpainting": see above. rather than talk about something that doesn't make any sense, I don't bother. for the specific quotes where you claimed I "scumpainted" rather than responded to something you said, I was pointing out other stuff you did that was scummy.

re: working with others: just questioning people is not working with them. I'm working with BROs and morph cause I'm townreading them atm and I feel I can trust them. if I'm wrong on them I also might be able to change my read on them too if something doesn't add up.

Pieguy:

Please don't respond to me point-by-point like our last exchange has gone. It's an exhausting format of back-and-forth, and I don't think it's a particularly exciting read. Please do answer my questions, though.

what the crap? how the hell am I supposed to answer your questions without at least making some reference to the question you asked? because of this, that would create an inherent point-by-point structure in my post. if not, you could say "you ignored question xxx" - if I did, you could say "you weren't supposed to respond like this". I get the feeling you knew this and tried to set this up so you could paint me as scummy no matter which one I chose.

not only that but what's with the sudden politeness? it seems like you were afraid you'd get called out for being too abrasive and changed your plans.

So, your townread on BRO is so strong, 6 pages into the game, that the very case you make for me being scum (hoping onto a wagon while parroting the logic of others in a way that looks artificial) somehow can't be made against him?

why should I bother making a case on him when you're way more likely to be scum?

Also, according to your original post in this game, you -did- have a townread on me, which means that your townreads are subject to change. Why did your read on me change to scum, whereas your read on BRO, which should have followed the same logic, did not change?

that post wasn't serious and I think it's damn obvious it's not serious when 3 of the people hadn't even posted yet. quit reaching ~

You're trying to appeal to the logic that I put forth

in order despite the fact that just posts ago you said of that very same logic, "anyone on the wagon is responsible for anything that might happen as a result of wagoning him." and also made the (awkward) argument that taking a typical defense for joining a wagon is scummy. Your vote on me is a push for a swing-wagon, as it presents me in opposition to the growing zmon wagon and tries to make a case out of it. If you truly wanted me to elaborate on my intentions for voting zmon, you'd ask me about it, rather than damning me out of the gate.

yes I did use your logic that I claimed to be scummy. I'm using your own logic against you in order to demonstrate the inherent contradictions in what you're saying. that's how I roll ~

bolded: this is exactly what you're accusing me of doing. you're scumpainting me by saying I'm appealing to your logic.

Oho, so here you are being a bastard and trying to turn my words against me, despite making a huge stumble to get there.
First of all, I -voted- zmon, not zmuffin. If you read, I discredit my own read of zmuffin, because it's predicated on scum-reading him as a baseline.
Secondly, I -explained- why I put a vote on zmon. It wasn't simple gut, or 'thinking' he is 'scummy'. Your vote on me wasn't that either, so let's stop trying to change the facts.
Third, I think you'll find that I've put forth and facilitated some pretty thorough discussion in my last few posts, and while I didn't have any direct questions to zmon, I did present criticisms. Should I have spent some time hammering out some questions for him? Sure. Not that it's important, seeing as you jumped at the opportunity to push a wagon on me.

ok wrong name. still doesn't change my point. and likewise, I presented criticisms of what you were doing. and all of a sudden it's scummy when I do it , but not when you do it

[pieguyn]

town: GP, varsoon, psychlone, BRO, mastin
maybe TNE

i don't like how little morph has done anything that didn't feel completely empty in this game, especially considering the amount of posts from them.

i don't like the continued flippancy from thezmon.

i don't like pieguy being confused about stuff that isn't really confusing at all. and the attack on varsoon is pretty meh.

why is my attack on varsoon "meh"? I want a specific explanation with quotes and reasons to show you're not just making this up. everything I said follows directly from stuff he said, so i'm quite sure my logic isn't false.

and you're townreading him, for apparently no reason? your other townreads are somewhat understandable, but this is something I want an explanation for

also I thought my confusion was just "meh" too. why all of a sudden are you disliking it?

[pieguyn]

As for you saying that earlier readlist wasn't serious...

no I'm pretty sure of those reads ~

I'm dead serious
for now why don't you try to figure out how I got those reads ww

Okay, man.

no shit, if I revealed it wasn't serious right from the gate I wouldn't get any reactions out of anyone

Here's where I stand on this:
1. I don't really want to keep up this game that's quickly becoming "You did this" "Nuh-uh, YOU did this".
2. It's annoying, and exhausting for not just me, but for the other players who'll have to catch up through all that tripe.

You're being a bit inane, and most of your defense of your play is that "I actually mean X" or "Why should I?" I could spend another long-winded, boring post explaining this, going into detail about it, and why your appeals are faulty, etc etc, but then it just becomes more of what I've explained in points 1 and 2.

except that's a perfectly valid defense

We're going to have to agree to disagree, and unless you want to directly ask me any questions, I'm not going to engage further exhausting, fairly-useless discourse.

ok ~

[pieguyn]

tl;dr case on Varsoon:
1. makes an opportunistic jump on zmon
2. when pressured, claims I'm saying everything he does is scummy. also accuses me of doing the exact same thing he did to zmon
3. when I show that's false, tries to redirect onto BROs
4. when that doesn't work, turns back to me. claims I'm discrediting and scumpainting him when he's the one discrediting and scumpainting me. claims my play is inconsistent when I've demonstrated how his play is inconsistent and mine makes sense.
5. uses arguments that blatantly contradict what he's done, and when I show this, claims I'm scummy when I'm turning his own logic against him
6. sets up a dichotomy in which he can say I did the wrong thing no matter what option I choose
7. becomes abrasive and when I call him on it blatantly stops being abrasive

if i wasn't super-tired i might entertain this just to absolutely destroy your case. but not right now. the tl;dr version of it is that your original reasons for voting him weren't good (how is it "better" to bandwagon for absolutely no reason? plus even if giving reasons was in some way scummy, or varsoon was scummy for the way in which he gave reasons, as varsoon has pointed out, why attack just varsoon for it?) and nothing in your push since then has made for a good case.

is the above better?

also, I already explained I had a townread on BROs and I have no reason to push him atm when there's someone who I have a better chance to get something from

[pieguyn]

Man, if you're going to make a case, please don't straight-up lie to town with points like 2, 3, 4, 5, 7.

The rest of your points are arguable, and I've already argued why they're wrong.

I think I've explained my points well enough and I understand them, and the reasoning why they're true, well enough to defend them if anyone wants to know. which is good enough for me

Wheh.
Man.
See, this is way better.

yeah I agree. this style of wall posting came from the first game I played on this site which had like 4 wall posters in there and it's what I got used to, so I'd guess it's a habit of mine. problem is I got used to making all my points via walls plus quote walls fit my scumhunting style so I can't break it. =.=

[pieguyn]

@zmuffin:
1. I don't like your train of thought and I'm thus shutting down this line of questioning right here
2. yes it is, cause it's an invalid argument. there is no reason to believe that "no matter what he did, I'd say it was scummy". and before you go saying "false logic isn't scummy", I find the false logic approach to actually be pretty damn accurate so I stick with it.
3. why isn't it redirecting? there's a real possibility that's what he was trying to do. but you're not even considering the various possibilities and just assuming what I said is false?
4. v
5. I have the evidence to say yes
6. ^
7. not when his meta is apparently being more abrasive as scum. there is a real possibility IMO that he was trying not to be abrasive but then slipped

I swear your last point is a strawman. my thoughts are based on sorting people, and I'm not going to try to sort someone I've already sorted. thus, the fact I had a townread on BRO is significant. based on what he's done before, I find it improbable that he's scum doing an opportunistic jump. however, since I had no such townread on Varsoon, it's more likely he was scum doing an opportunistic jump, and the way he reacted when I pressured him reinforced this.

just looking at it without anything in mind his jump is different anyway because it provides a concrete reason and isn't 100% opinions. not only that but it doesn't ping me as fake like Varsoon's does

I can't get this feeling that you're scum with him out of my head. your last sentence is giving me all sorts of weird vibes and it makes me want to cry. I find this generally happens when scum says something that's off and I just can't find the exact words for why it's off. and the way that you jumped to defend him is setting off all my alarms. yeah this is gut and it doesn't help anyone but just throwing this out there

and I'm surprised still no one's noticed my reaction test yet

[pieguyn]

last sentence as is your first post, not your comment about 126

[pieguyn]

Muffin was fueling the flames to bolster Varsoon's mindset

... you realise pieguy was the one who

asked

me to do it, right?

no you were doing this even before I asked you to elaborate on your opinion on my case

i don't like pieguy being confused about stuff that isn't really confusing at all.

and the attack on varsoon is pretty meh.

it's really subtle but even smth like this counts. and then you can just go blaming me when I ask you to elaborate, when my mindset of asking you for more info is the only logical way of looking at it from a town perspective.

notice the buddy you picked up along the way

Implies that it is a mutual partnership, rather than one-sided, otherwise wording would be more along the lines of "notice the buddy attempt on you along the way."

Also, if you aren't saying I'm scum, then why are you voting me?

I agree with morph that there is no such implication.

also, these kinds of arguments based exclusively on where people's vote is are invalid. it's one thing if it's conducive to a lynch or something else, but I find my vote often doesn't match the person I'm talking to when I wanna pressure multiple slots. this is not a scumtell and I'm seeing a cheap way to throw blame around.

177 IMO is the most viable argument as scum. just saying I'm misrepping you means nothing. in order for people to get you, they have to, oh look, go through all that text and try to figure out what you're trying to say. and I'm pretty sure you know that no one is going to go through all that atm. and don't even try to say I'm doing this myself because I explicitly listed off how you're lying and using false logic, and not just saying you are.

201 makes no sense. now all of a sudden we're using the literal definition of buddy? and what does it matter by using other words in place of "buddy"? it's pretty obvious that "buddy" as it was being used was not the definition you even brought up here.

[pieguyn]

Oops, forgot to post intended post #2:

Pie/V is TvT.

{ BRO, PA/Ghost, mastin, morph, pie, psych, V}
{Wayne, newearth}
{Mac, Mafia, Muffin}

Vast majority of my reads are gut/feel reads. Only probably 3-4 are legit backed with evidence.

Second slot is scum.

I'm sensing some possible "flow-going" with this post. you just posted that me vs. Varsoon is town v town but doesn't give a specific read on either of us?

I'd also like an explanation for your scumreads on wayne/TNE.

These ones I want elaboration on. (Granted. I can actually maybe see the Psychlone one. But Nacho being Nacho, I'm not going to even go near considering a wagon on him. )

it wasn't a serious readslist

The vote is because, by using your own logic, you're scum.

YES

you don't know what buddying means if you think defending a town read is buddying.

and you clearly have no idea how to play this game if you think that's a bad thing.

Lol!

My weakest point for years was how easily I was buddied. I have tons of intimate knowledge on being buddied as a result. "Defending" a town read isn't what you were doing. You were bolstering Varsoon's argument against Pie without taking a definitive stance, ala voting Pie to echo your sentiment.

It's TvT because of how obstinate both were in their stances and nether stopped to consider one over the other to the point both were tunneling. If one were scum they would have just conceded a small point and deflected onto something else.

wait what, now all of a sudden you think it's town v town? can you explain why the flip flop plz?

[pieguyn]

wait what, now all of a sudden you think it's town v town? can you explain why the flip flop plz?

When did I say you v Varsoon was anything but TvT?

The vote is because, by using your own logic, you're scum.

blame you for what? wayne is saying he thinks i'm scummy for the way in which i argued against your varsoon case, i pointed out that the only reason i was doing that is because you specifically asked me to.

it's subtle redirection. instead of people thinking of it as you buddying him, they'd think of it as you elaborating "because I asked you to".

what do you think of wayne's argument about me not voting you?

now that I look at it closer, I seriously don't get it. his whole point was that because you weren't voting me you weren't taking a definitive stance, and that would make it buddying? I fail to see how not voting me matters, and how you "buddying" Varsoon directly follows from that, as opposed to following from what you were saying. I still think that there might have been some buddying going on (mb I'm biased tho), but I fail to see what the vote has to do with any of it. also, I think it's pretty obvious what your stance was by your posts after my tl;dr case, so I'm not sure if his point about not having a stance is valid in the first place.

I'm assuming you have a scumread on wayne correct?

[pieguyn]

Because, you know, if I call something a TvT argument, that means that the people having the argument are scum, right? *facepalm* think about what you're saying before you say it.

can you at least give a specific reason behind it being TvT then?

also, what's your thoughts on wayne's attack on Varsoon/zmuffin?

Updated and sync achieved.

think we could go for a wayne wagon? him stating that Varsoon is scum then me and Varsoon is a town v town seems sketchy as hell tbh. IIRC he has a history of bussing teammates so that could point to him and zmuffin, but I'm not sure atm.

I do think your points about SSK are kind of interesting though and I'm also wondering what the hell is up with his second post. he asked Varsoon why his vote is on me, but wouldn't it be fking obvious based on what's going on why he's voting me? doesn't make sense IMO

[pieguyn]

I am here

[pieguyn]

instead of people thinking of it as you buddying him, they'd think of it as you elaborating "because I asked you to".

correct. that's what happened.

that's kind of the point. no one would suspect you of buddying because that is what happened, when your true intent was buddying

I'm assuming you have a scumread on wayne correct?

no. he's not a town read. i'm still trying to figure out whether he's being derptown or scum.

have you dropped your scum read on varsoon or something?

I'm pretty damn confident in my case on him, but the fact that it seems every single player is going "this is town v town" "Varsoon is town" etc. is making me hesitate a bit.

That's really bad. Like one of the cardinal types of things you never say, bad. Still like muffin, but damn...

why does that make him scum?

[pieguyn]

I'm not too sure how it worked, but it was smth like only the person holding the ring could win, but the person holding it could destroy it and make the wincons standard again, right?

in that case, if someone who cared more about teamwork and playing a regular game got it they could destroy it and town could win, yes. if I got it I'd probably destroy it in that case

[pieguyn]

Scum

12. waynegg - Cabd notices a huge aspect of his towngame missing here. ffery has niggles as well.

You're both wrong, btw

for some reason, this post seems like something I have a lot of difficulty seeing town-wayne posting, even though I have no completed games with him @_@

I get the impression that wayne usually doesn't really pay much attention to how other people are reading him and focuses more on what he's doing. so this post seems kind of out of place IMO. someone correct me if I'm wrong about this plz

[pieguyn]

I don't know what vox is or what the mechanic there was

[pieguyn]

That's really bad. Like one of the cardinal types of things you never say, bad. Still like muffin, but damn...

why does that make him scum?

Overemphasis

I don't get it 0.0 can you explain more plz

[pieguyn]

I'm new here so I'm not familiar with most of the mechanics that happened, sry >_<

[pieguyn]

if you can link either of those games tho I can check it out and give an opinion

[pieguyn]

I've never seen his scumplay firsthand, but I had heard in another game that he had a history of bussing partners. what I quoted was based off the impression I got of wayne in this game. most of his posts seemed like not really caring about what others thought of him and furthering his own scumhunting/reads/etc. I knew the general idea of the LotR mechanic cause I was randomly browsing Theme Park and I was like "oo lord of the rings" so I clicked on it and thought the mechanic was pretty interesting.

[pieguyn]

wow are you serious right now

I had a townread on you but the last time someone claimed "scumslip" on a townie they ended up being scum so now I'm not even sure

[pieguyn]

it's somewhere in this game

[DELETED]

let me try to find it

and no double post this time cause you're making me go find it ;w;

Do not discuss ongoing games.

[pieguyn]

ok my bad then. I srsly hope I don't get modkilled for that bc I didn't realize even smth like that goes against the ongoing game rule. plz forgive me >_<

[pieguyn]

@morph: unvote me, please. just so there's no worries, let me just say that I'm going to prove myself as town later today.

besides, you think varsoon is scum, don't you? so how would that make sense from your PoV?

the team of varsoon + you doesn't make much sense, however one of you could still be scum independently of the other.

[pieguyn]

no, I'm just letting you know right now that you won't find anything down this path, so just drop it now so you don't waste your time. I always intended to prove myself as town on D1 from the start of the game but now that you seem to be pretty confident in a "scumslip" on me I figured it'd be better to let you know immediately :3

[pieguyn]

do I have to do it now

I prefer to wait

[pieguyn]

good enough

[pieguyn]

@morph: back to my other question, do you think we can go for a wayne wagon? also, has any of this changed your reads on anyone?

also get that vote off me. asdf now I'm paranoid of you bc the last time I saw someone calling "scumslip" on a townie he was scum himself. @_@

also, plz don't hate me for breaking that rule it was an accident and I feel really bad about it >_<

Pie you are squirming after a single vote? Sounds like noobscum to me. Let me reread that last part where Morph called for a scumslip...

this is probably really stupid, but there's so many good players in this game that I feel kind of out of my league. then when one of them called "scumslip" and seemed confident about it, when he (she?) was in fact completely wrong, I got scared and just felt like crying. especially when they were townreading me before, the shock factor hit me really hard. and it messed up my thought process, and I feared no one would believe my explanation, and I became overcome with paranoia that I'd die on D1 even though I have a confirmable role. feel free to insult me but this should explain it

[pieguyn]

@zmon: here's where I started taking note of him. I haven't formally sorted him yet but this is making him lean null-scum for me.

Updated and sync achieved.

think we could go for a wayne wagon? him stating that Varsoon is scum then me and Varsoon is a town v town seems sketchy as hell tbh.

now that I look at it closer, I seriously don't get it. his whole point was that because you weren't voting me you weren't taking a definitive stance, and that would make it buddying? I fail to see how not voting me matters, and how you "buddying" Varsoon directly follows from that, as opposed to following from what you were saying. I still think that there might have been some buddying going on (mb I'm biased tho), but I fail to see what the vote has to do with any of it. also, I think it's pretty obvious what your stance was by your posts after my tl;dr case, so I'm not sure if his point about not having a stance is valid in the first place.

The problem is that you look extremely scared of being lynched after a single vote has been placed on you. We need 7 to lynch, and in my experience it's mainly the newbies, and more often newscum and newtown, who flail over 1-2 votes. I might give you the benefit of the doubt, but mostly because I feel much better about a wayne lynch.

yeah.. but when it's morph incorrectly claiming a "scumslip"? that's like if you're holding an empty gun, and it explodes, and causes smoke to come out, and then having a police officer accuse you of holding the smoking gun. ugh that just fked my whole thought process up big time

[pieguyn]

cause iirc you're one of the better players here. so when it was one of the more skilled players calling it, I got all scared and paranoid >_<

[pieguyn]

has any of this changed your reads on anyone?

[pieguyn]

for me his attack on zmuffin was sketchy as hell. this was really the only detailed explanation he gave for his attack v

My weakest point for years was how easily I was buddied. I have tons of intimate knowledge on being buddied as a result. "Defending" a town read isn't what you were doing. You were bolstering Varsoon's argument against Pie without taking a definitive stance, ala voting Pie to echo your sentiment.

for this statement, I'm pretty sure zmuffin did take a definitive stance. so the fact that he wasn't voting me doesn't matter. this also seems like a cheap way to put suspicion on someone, since as I said before I don't find arguments based entirely on votes to be valid. as I said to zmuffin, I also don't see why him buddying follows from him not voting me, as opposed to following directly from what he said.

his attack on varsoon seemed fine at first, but it turned out it wasn't really an attack? however, now that I think about it again, I kind of think he has a valid idea in alerting Varsoon to zmuffin, but then I'm still not too sure his point in zmuffin was valid in the first place. if he's not scum, there's probably scum "flow-going" by saying his attacks were bad, since I can understand what he might be going for here.

[pieguyn]

I've seen a bunch of people constantly talking about cash cabd and I keep seeing ffery's name popping up all over the place (like in newbie 1436), so I got the impression you two were one of the more stronger slots in the game. mb I'm just biased just due to seeing more of your names everywhere and not knowing some of the other players @_@

I'm wondering why you're questioning someone who can confirm himself as town though 0.0

[pieguyn]

The 180-190 range is around where the VvWayne argument takes place. Basically, Varsoon called you scum, and then wayne called Varsoon scum for the same reason Varsoon called you scum, even though the way the two of you played out the argument was different. Then, the two got into a brief argument about diction, which I found extremely retarded.

yeah, I took that to mean all this was part of his plan to get Varsoon's attention, which is why I'm pretty sure if it's really legitimate there's scum attacking him for it (they wouldn't read into it enough to get what he's really doing). however, I'm not sure that his reason for attacking zmuffin is correct.

@pie: I don’t remember you mentioning muffin or Varsoon independently, however. Can you tell me what you think of them? I suggest reading through your argument with him, but try taking a different angle at it (not necessarily that other people are saying TvT), because when people get into heated debates with others, and get an indication of scum early on, it’s common for them to succumb to conf bias (which leads to these TvT arguments), so retrospect reading helps.

I have literally no idea on muffin. gut leans town, but I haven't formally sorted him yet.

after rereading the argument with Varsoon, I guess the main thing I originally disliked about him was this

I don't like zmon's level of activity coupled with his lack of serious content and I really don't like the moves made in 85 and 83.

he didn't give any specific reason for disliking the moves zmon was making, and instead just gave a vague statement. that's why I said he was "opportunistic as fuck". then when I pressured him he said this

Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?

just saying "I don't like xxx" hardly counts as a "proper evaluation" IMO. trying to pass that off as a proper evaluation made me think he was just looking for an easy way onto the wagon. then this

I'm not following you here. So, despite not taking part in RVS, you think I'm eager to be on a wagon?
And that having legitimate reasons for being on a wagon is scummy?

I don't see how the idea how he's not eager to be on wagon directly follows from not taking part in RVS. and again, he had no legitimate reasons, only a vague "I don't like this".

nothing after that makes me want to change my read on him. mb I overrate redirecting onto other people as a scumtell, but the sequence of actions I posted in my tl;dr case would make sense as scum. looking back on it, his frustration seemed genuine, but I still don't know if it's genuine town or genuine scum.


@wayne: are you townreading me?

[pieguyn]

And whats it called when you go on about how bad someone that's voting for you stinks at this game and then use that as your reasoning for voting them? I forgot...

how come this doesn't count as interacting with a scumread?

where do you draw the line about "interacting"? 0.0

[pieguyn]

WHAT THE FUCK

Varsoon's latest posts are so bad that it makes me want to scream

@morph: unvote me, please. just so there's no worries, let me just say that I'm going to prove myself as town later today.

besides, you think varsoon is scum, don't you? so how would that make sense from your PoV?

the team of varsoon + you doesn't make much sense, however

one of you could still be scum independently of the other.

You know who calls teams on D1?
Scumlords~

this is a blatant misrep. LOOK AT WHAT I SAID. I AM NOT CALLING A SCUMTEAM OF ANY KIND. I'M SAYING THAT EACH ONE OF YOU MIGHT BE SCUM. I AM NOT SAYING BOTH OFYOU ARE SCUM TOGETHER. JUST LOOK AT IT WHAT THE FUCK ALSDFJHALSFKJH

also, look at what you said. this kind of shit is exactly what you accused me of doing. you accused me of just calling shit you do as scummy without questioning you about it first. and here you are scumpainting me for doing something that's not even a scumtell in its remotest form.

Was gonna call you on fence-sitting with the bolded but I do this shit all the time as town where I say there's scum between X and Y. Of course, since I'm scum-reading you, I'm seeing this as a "Let's mislynch these two players on the pretense that one of them is scum." dealio. But, yeah, that's my biass showing.

so if you legitimately think I was fencesitting, and that makes me scum, then why the hell would you do the exact same thing in this exact same post? v

There's

definitely

scum between Morph and Pieguy.

this shows you don't legitimately think of such actions as fencesitting (or at the very least, even if you do, you can't think of it as being scummy cause you claim you do it as town), making this statement directly contradict itself. this shows that your first and foremost intent is to just paint me as scummy, as opposed to actually scumhunting and pointing out shit that you think comes from scum.

I seriously don't get you, so I'm going to assume you're scum. if you seriously are town, plz explain this because I'm confused as hell as to how this could possibly come from a town mindset. what the fuck

[pieguyn]

I'll reread this again, but LITERALLY THAT'S THE FUCKING REASON WHEN I GOT OUT OF THIS WHEN I READ THE EXCHANGE. IT REEKS WORSE THAN CAT PISS.

are you still scumreading me?

also, do you think morph calling such a bad "scumslip" is alignment indicative?

So gun to your head, what do you say?

varsoon probably scum, zmuffin probably town

[pieguyn]

People painting me vs Pie as Town Versus Town makes me upset. I did the same thing for a moment with Mala/Nick in Xenogears. I love doing this when one of my scum partners is on the line, especially when the town is likely to be the lynch. One town flips and I can hold the fear of a mislynch over the heads of the townbase. So, to you guys, I am skeptical.

here's the other thing

if you are town, and people painting me vs you as town v town makes you upset, that would imply you believe it's not town v town. which would imply you still think I'm scum. so why all of a sudden did it get reduced to this v

There's definitely scum between Morph and Pieguy.

I can't understand the thought process behind you being town, and you vs me not being town v town, and then that ^ following from this. a more natural deduction would be that I'm scum. however, you're apparently not convinced and would rather say it's either morph or me?

this shows such a great logical inconsistency in your thoughts that I can't understand it. please explain this because I don't get what the hell you're thinking at all > <

[pieguyn]

first off, pointing out all the flaws in your thought process isn't flailing. second

You're not interested in asking me questions or sussing me for any sort of information behind my vote, you're just condemning my slot and trying to suffocate me.

FURTHERMORE, nice try to appeal to OTHER PLAYERS instead of immediately answer my question.
It's not rhetorical, so get to it.

you accuse me of not engaging you and not answering your questions. however, what you just did was just that. you're not engaging me at all and ignored all the questions I asked you. you can clearly see in there that I asked for clarification from you on your thought process, but you didn't give any. using your own words, it's not rhetorical, so get to it. :>

[pieguyn]

WHAT THE FUCK

Varsoon's latest posts are so bad that it makes me want to scream

@morph: unvote me, please. just so there's no worries, let me just say that I'm going to prove myself as town later today.

besides, you think varsoon is scum, don't you? so how would that make sense from your PoV?

the team of varsoon + you doesn't make much sense, however

one of you could still be scum independently of the other.

You know who calls teams on D1?
Scumlords~

this is a blatant misrep. LOOK AT WHAT I SAID. I AM NOT CALLING A SCUMTEAM OF ANY KIND. I'M SAYING THAT EACH ONE OF YOU MIGHT BE SCUM. I AM NOT SAYING BOTH OFYOU ARE SCUM TOGETHER. JUST LOOK AT IT WHAT THE FUCK ALSDFJHALSFKJH

also, look at what you said. this kind of shit is exactly what you accused me of doing. you accused me of just calling shit you do as scummy without questioning you about it first. and here you are scumpainting me for doing something that's not even a scumtell in its remotest form.

Was gonna call you on fence-sitting with the bolded but I do this shit all the time as town where I say there's scum between X and Y. Of course, since I'm scum-reading you, I'm seeing this as a "Let's mislynch these two players on the pretense that one of them is scum." dealio. But, yeah, that's my biass showing.

so if you legitimately think I was fencesitting, and that makes me scum, then why the hell would you do the exact same thing in this exact same post?

v

There's

definitely

scum between Morph and Pieguy.

this shows you don't legitimately think of such actions as fencesitting (or at the very least, even if you do, you can't think of it as being scummy cause you claim you do it as town), making this statement directly contradict itself. this shows that your first and foremost intent is to just paint me as scummy, as opposed to actually scumhunting and pointing out shit that you think comes from scum.

I seriously don't get you, so I'm going to assume you're scum.

if you seriously are town, plz explain this because I'm confused as hell as to how this could possibly come from a town mindset. what the fuck

People painting me vs Pie as Town Versus Town makes me upset. I did the same thing for a moment with Mala/Nick in Xenogears. I love doing this when one of my scum partners is on the line, especially when the town is likely to be the lynch. One town flips and I can hold the fear of a mislynch over the heads of the townbase. So, to you guys, I am skeptical.

here's the other thing

if you are town, and people painting me vs you as town v town makes you upset, that would imply you believe it's not town v town. which would imply you still think I'm scum. so why all of a sudden did it get reduced to this v

There's definitely scum between Morph and Pieguy.

I can't understand the thought process behind you being town, and you vs me not being town v town, and then that ^ following from this. a more natural deduction would be that I'm scum.

however, you're apparently not convinced and would rather say it's either morph or me?

this shows such a great logical inconsistency in your thoughts that I can't understand it.

please explain this because I don't get what the hell you're thinking at all > <

[pieguyn]

exactly why I'm wondering about this. how would you arrive at the conclusion that there's scum in me or morph, when I was always scum to begin with? from a town mindset, someone would think "pie is scum, and morph may or may not be scum". but you weren't confident with just calling me scum up front, and instead saying it's me or morph? and you worded this in the exact way where you accused me of fence sitting? that just seems like giving yourself a backup so that when I flip town you can go for morph. what's preventing me from saying you're trying to lynch both of us on the basis that "one of us is scum", and that you're going for me first?

why doesn't it matter if what you do is scummy, but it matters if everyone else does something scummy? nice double standard there. you can just hand-wave everything you do saying you play "odd-level town".

[pieguyn]

You haven't really ever expressed the sentiments of the former sentence.

what does that even mean?

yeah it's not contradictory per se, but it's not a natural thought process to have. if you think I'm scum, then why would you conclude that either me or morph is scum? it doesn't make any sense.

Of course I can have a double-standard, I know I'm town.

so why can you have a double standard

You're trying to appeal to the logic that I put forth in order despite the fact that just posts ago you said of that very same logic, "anyone on the wagon is responsible for anything that might happen as a result of wagoning him." and also made the (awkward) argument that taking a typical defense for joining a wagon is scummy. Your vote on me is a push for a swing-wagon, as it presents me in opposition to the growing zmon wagon and tries to make a case out of it. If you truly wanted me to elaborate on my intentions for voting zmon, you'd ask me about it, rather than damning me out of the gate.

@pieguy,

no, not really.

1. what would have needed to happen for you

not

to consider a vote on thezmon opportunistic?
2. the first part isn't even scummy, and you

are

trying to say everything he does is scummy, so uh... yeah. the second part is kind of ironic but i don't really remember what this is referring to.
3. this didn't happen (he did point out the inconsistency in who you're attacking, but it wasn't "redirecting")
4. *shrug*
5. no
6. no
7. so what? this actually looks more town than scummy

plus it's not about whether or not you have a townread on BRO, but whether or not you

actually

think what varsoon did is scummy, and if you do, you should think BRO is equally scummy for it, regardless of your read on him. or double standards. whatever.

This.
This times a million.
I agree with this post in both form and function.

It's like Mastin always says, being succinct is way better than being long-winded and exhaustive. I'd much rather have this sort of short-hand discourse.

but I can't?

[pieguyn]

@_@ I'd like a real answer please

also, plz answer the first question

[pieguyn]

VOTE: Wayne

Your interactions with muffin and thez remind me of how you dealt with SK/Andy/Amrun in LotR.

can you elaborate on that plz?

This was too cogent for your town game until I got down to the last line.

UNVOTE: Varsoon

so you think that's something he wouldn't be able to fake as scum?

[pieguyn]

@BROs: can you give more examples of craziness that doesn't seem faked?

@TNE:

varsoon AtE this early.

varsoon town gaise

Unvote

Varsoon, why is your vote on pieguy?

I originally put my vote on pieguyn because she exhibited behavior that I attribute to scum (suffocation and disengagement with a town player).

I really think that you're doing the same, though.

first Varsoon is town and now he's scummy? can you explain why the flip flop plz?

also, what's your opinion on morph?

till then ,why not

vote: TNE

[pieguyn]

plz answer my questions

also why did Mac go from town to null?

[pieguyn]

BRO scumz
Ghostly Penguine Null-town because of his latest post
Mac null
SSK null
mastin gut-town
Morph town
pie town
psychlone town
tezmon null-scum
varsoon town
wayne scumz because of the exchange with muffinman
muffin town ^

TNE do you have any reads that don't just match what everyone else is saying?

every one of those reads seems like it just matches the popular opinion of those players.

also, what's your opinion on morph's "scumslip"?

What I meant that varsoon was doing the same. "I originally put my vote on pieguyn because she exhibited behavior that I attribute to scum (suffocation and disengagement with a town player)." Hence my town read on you. But I never said he was scum

if varsoon is doing something scummy, why are you townreading him?

[pieguyn]

@BROs: can you give more examples of craziness that doesn't seem faked?

Biggest one that comes to mind is Xenoblade; it's super long, anywayshere's the game for your reading pleasure.

oh hell no I'm not reading 234 pages of posts

anyway, can you give examples in this game? since this is the game we're trying to sort him in, I'm looking for more stuff specific to this game.

[pieguyn]

what do you think about my point on his second post feeling out of place?

even apart from that, he'd probably be in my scum list just by pure poe at this point. i have too many town reads.

what the crap? that's exactly what I was thinking about him. like you literally took that right of my head.

can you elaborate plz? I wanna see if we're seeing the same thing in that post.

[pieguyn]

yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking too. it's pretty obvious why varsoon's vote is on me cause srsly just look at it. this makes me think that he wasn't genuinely trying to figure anything out with that question, and instead just wanted to appear like he was doing something.

[pieguyn]

wanted to look into morph a bit more, and I found something

@morph:

Cabd thinks he seems more pleasant (not quite how he described it) in this game than in xenogears. He was scum in xenogears. I'm comparing him to his play in Death's Diner, as well, and would also characterize his play as more pleasant and less abrasive. He was town in that game. I'll want more data.

Bro's observation about his vote position is pretty interesting, though.

Scum

1. BROseidon - Varsoon vote reasons were bad and he should feel bad.

10. thezmon221 - Mastin vote and "mislynch on pro-town player" both pinged.

so you think BROs' observation is interesting, which would imply that it has some merit. but now his vote reasons were bad? why the flip flop plz?

I also noticed that 124 was immediately when I moved onto Varsoon, while 185 was after zmuffin had said my case was bad and Psychlone made a similar statement. flow-going much?

[pieguyn]

@Varsoon:

what are your thoughts on the interactions between wayne and thezmon?

[pieguyn]

what do you think of BRO's jump on wayne?

[pieguyn]

@morph:

what do you think of BRO's jump on wayne?

[pieguyn]

if you answered it sry i'm tired as hell so i probably missed it

wondering, the vote was in 622 and he gave a specific reason immediately in 624. how is it you don't find too much trouble with the vote, even though you don't like the reason that was given at practically the same time?

[pieguyn]

@BROs:

can you plz explain why you seem to like jumping on wagons? first Varsoon, and then wayne.

[pieguyn]

I was thinking, you've jumped onto two wagons now citing nothing but meta. your jump on wayne was citing meta about being abrasive and it seems so similar to your jump on Varsoon citing meta about vote position because of this. also, both wagons seemed like points where there'd be a possibility of some big breakthrough happening. I was starting to full-out attack Varsoon when you jumped on him and your vote on wayne was near the start of the whole thing with him. I just wanna know if you have some sort of idea behind this or not?

[pieguyn]

He put a vote down on someone I was thinking was scum. VOTES on someone I think are scum are good. REASONS can be bad even if the vote itself fits my purposes, which are to find town to work with and find scum to lynch.

so the fact that someone was pushing on one of your scumreads for "bad reasons" wasn't setting off any alarms?

@Varsoon:

what do you think about 705

@BROs:

is it a coincidence that you used meta after there were already some votes placed? I don't see why you couldn't be using meta right away even if someone has no votes on them.

[pieguyn]

@Varsoon:

what do you think about 705

Interesting, mostly because it resonates with me a bit.

I mean, out of zmon and Wayne, if I had to call one of them scum, I'd send Wayne to the gallows first.

But I don't feel too passionately about either of them being scum.

do you still think I'm scum?

also what's your opinion on morph's 798?

i get pretty much the same feeling from morph as i do from BRO. the scumhunting they've done so far has either been weak or felt really forced. also they've been almost bipolar in their read on me and i feel like that's been going with the flow of the game more than genuine trouble reading me.

actually, I'm really starting to look at morph a lot too

a lot of her posts seem really serious. and I know I read somewhere that for ffery, "not having fun" is a scumtell. I'm kind of getting that vibe from them atm, although that's pretty much entirely gut.

and I'm paranoid of anyone who calls a scumslip on a townie <_>

Whoever pointed out that TNE's reads are derivative, I agree with them, and while Pie has made a few good points, they seem more play based than red based; I still like TNE for scums.

that was me T_T

can you explain the "play based" vs. "read based"? I don't understand what you mean here.

[pieguyn]

SSK vote seems fine for now, TNE leans town for tone.

can you elaborate on what tone makes you townread him?

I personally didn't see anything too town in the tone in his posts. 0.0

No, I thought that the way pieguy went about the reaction test was decently town; it was an odd angle to take, but the way that he went about it seemed decent to me. I also liked his #89 because it's the type of thing that you out to a scumbuddy in the quicktopic as oppose to zero in on in thread

you know I can only do that if GP and I are both scum right

hmmm do you know something I don't?

This question sucks, considering that question is the one most of Varsoon's recent posts were dedicated to answering. Did you ignore the walls,

or were you just trying to get him to summarize them for you?

noooo what the hell. don't give him the easy out. make him come up with that shit on his own. if that's his real intention to get Varsoon to summarize the walls, he'll say that without you prompting him to say it. you putting that in there made this whole question entirely pointless T_T

[pieguyn]

you know I can only do that if GP and I are both scum right

hmmm do you know something I don't?

nvm I get it now durrrr

in that case I have another question: if I was scum, what disadvantage would I have from posting that in thread?

[pieguyn]

yeah that whole feeling on you is pretty much just paranoia. it's a pretty weak feeling for pretty much the exact reason you pointed out in that post

the "scumslip" read is a lot stronger and is making me watch out though

also, I tried looking through your posts to figure out your read on BRO. I think I see it but I'm not sure T_T

I did notice something odd though

can you elaborate on that plz?

Wayne's always somewhat abrasive, but he doesn't get this aggressive on people as town (Xenoblade, Xenogears, War in the Middle East). He's being more abrasive than usual, which reminds me of his play in LotR, where he played much more abrasively to throw Amrun/the SK/Andy hydra off.

At least you're focusing on two players I had early concerns about. I'm not sure it's good to have dropped my guard on BRO and zmuffin a little since my first reads list, but I do like later stuff they've posted.

I thought I answered this.

The vote itself didn't trouble me too much because I also had rising concerns about Wayne at that point. The main reason I waited until yesterday morning to vote him was because I didn't want to jostle the interactions between Wayne and thezmon because those interactions were helping with my reads on both players.

However, I didn't like the 624 reasons for the vote, and made a note to bring that up with Cabd when we synch our reads. In the Wayne games I've read, I've found him to be plenty abrasive as town.

you say he's suspicious for "bad reasons" early on, then claim you like his later posts, then claim that you don't like a post again for "bad reasons" that would fit into that category of "later posts"?

[pieguyn]

mastin what's wrong with BRO's post. i dunno if I'm overlooking smth cause i'm tired as hell but I don't see it 0.0

also holy wow those :Ps

[pieguyn]

@wayne:

can you elaborate on exactly what's wrong with that post

@zmuffin:

what are your thoughts on morph's 837

[pieguyn]

I'm really tired and I can't see anything for shit right now sry

[pieguyn]

Mostly based on how the game is played, rather than the people contained within it. In other words, I'm not feeling the definite reads vibe from you, and considering you're not proven you're as cheeky as Mastin for example, it feels...off.

I don't know shit about the other people in this game. I only joined in August so I'm not at all familiar with how everyone here plays, besides some random things that don't form a coherent basis for much. so for now I go almost exclusively based on how the game is being played. sometimes I'll find a personal thing but IMO I can see things better when I look at it this way. I feel it's pretty obvious based on my questioning what most of my reads are.

[pieguyn]

@Varsoon:

also what's your opinion on morph's 798?

@morph:

so what's the results you got from this obvious as fuck reaction test? I know you mentioned at multiple points that you still haven't sorted my reaction, but I don't think you ever explicitly posted the conclusion? also, were there any reactions you were watching out for in advance?

also, I've you asked a total of one question that you claimed you answered already. so why is it suddenly "most" of them?

[pieguyn]

town
3. Mac <- I liked how he was discussing the merits of "scumslips" earlier. sure everyone was saying it was bad, but he seemed like the first who really questioned the whole validity of "scumslip" as a scumtell as a whole, and backed it up with evidence.
7. pieguyn
12. waynegg
13. zMuffinMan

oh my god they might be scum
6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd)

null-town
1. BROseidon
8. Psychlone (GuyInFreezer + Nachomamma8) <- GiF seems less serious in this game than what I know of his scumgame, but that's from my one completed game with him, which isn't even on this site, so I'm not sure how accurate that even is. I was thinking he didn't seem to be actually doing much and instead just responding to things, but disengagement explains that.

null
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien)
10. thezmon221 <- noticed more flow-going with him 440
11. Varsoon

scum
4. MafiaSSK
5. mastin2 <- he's giving me weird as fuck vibes. his post with all the :Ps seems kind of forced for me, as well as him suddenly pushing a scumread on me for asking what was up with one of his scumreads. he seems to be overemphasizing the fact that he's not confident in his reads and it seems like him flip flopping around helps to emphasize that.
9. thenewearth. also he's obviously Cirno who can't even be in this game making him mafia

here's an idea

@MafiaSSK:

make a real post plz or die :>

[pieguyn]

Having played a lot of games with GiF, this is actually more in line with how I feel that town-GiF plays rather than Cabd or Ffery.

I'm not all too great at reading them, but I don't get much out of 798 outside of it being a kinda-weak defense of play.

Why do you ask?

I was mostly going for this

No, it does not read that I think mastin is town. It reads that I'm talking to him as though he could be town. And I'm listening to the echoes that come back in the conversation from being talked to as a potential teammate.

this seemed really similar to what I was doing with morph and BRO. I had early townreads on both of them so I was suspending suspicion on them in order to work with them a bit, and if something seemed terribly off I could go back and resort them. I'd think if you were scumreading me for a reason similar to that then this, which seems like a pretty similar thing, should at least ring some sort of bell.

the same thing with thezmon's post how he was accusing wayne of repeatedly misrepping and scumpainting every single thing he did. that's pretty much exactly what you accused me of doing and your main reason for pushing on me. but when it happens there you don't even notice it until I point out the specific post it's in?

I don't think much of it. Nothing stood out to me.

and even then you aren't scumreading either of them for it?

this seems like cherrypicking, which is also one of the things you accused me of doing. a lot of stuff happens that's similar to stuff you claim I did yet none of it pings you?

if you think SSK needs pressure to play the game, why aren't you voting him?

[pieguyn]

oh my god wtf
I dreamed last night that when I woke up this game suddenly had 107 pages, and someone had dayvig'd zmuffin and he had flipped mafia doctor. what the hell is wrong with me @_@

We initially called it "obvious as fuck" and I think pie is using the term ironically (i.e., he disagrees that it was obvious as fuck).

this

quickly though: pieguy - opinion on morph (quick summary will do, dont make me iso because im pages behind)

I think she's town but omfg paranoia. liking her questions and analysis of players. re: "scumslip", see above. I missed that it was a reaction test until she outright told me it was.

[pieguyn]

not using personal tells isn't me pulling the newb card, it's because I think I get a better idea of waht's going on by looking at how the game is playing out. so usually I prefer to avoid personal tells, although I still find some sometimes. unless I'm very familiar with how someone plays, I generally use them only in order to get a quick read on someone without formally sorting them. in this game, however, since I'm not that familiar with how anyone plays, I'm using them even less than usual.

This looks like a bus, I'll be honest. The bit about SSK looks like scum talking to scum, with them in the scum pile. IF I'm right, that'd make TNE town, though. IF I'm right, I think the buddy would be in the town range, and the candidates for that are BRO (likely) and Psychlone. But all of this relies on pie being scum, which quite frankly is just a random thought I had that I have zero backing for.

if I'm at least a semi-competent player, then why would I make the most obvious and transparent as fuck bus ever? especially when you've got a whole thread going "stop bussing" and gave some good reasons as to why bussing isn't necessarily a good thing, I don't see how you could place me as a semi-competent player yet think that's a bus. o.o

(Also. Every time I can think of me being town and someone noting my usage, I remember them being scum.)

so it's suspicious when I try to avoid personal tells, but when I mention this personal tell, it's also suspicious?

[pieguyn]

@Pieguy:

I get where you're going with seeing them making similar plays to you, but the plays that those players made were not the plays you made, which I still hold are scummier. Your recent interactions haven't convinced me to pull my vote from you, and while SSK's claim is weak and doesn't feel genuine, I'm keeping my vote where I feel the strongest.

why do you say that my interactions "haven't convinced you" to unvote me? why do you think that's my intention?

I'm trying to figure out if you're town what the hell your thought process could possibly be because I don't understand it at all. essentially, I'm trying to confirm or deny my scumread on you, since I was starting to be unsure about it. nice scumpainting attempt.

That's you're problem then, isn't it. And yes, noting and latching onto speech pattern inconsistencies and fatal scum flaws and pushing that read is no longer known as scum hunting. It's having

confirmation bias

...

Not entirely, but when you go ahead and paint every single fucking thing I say in a bad light and misrep the fuck out of me?

Yeah, that's conf bias if I've ever seen it.

if you disagree this is what wayne did, then I'd expect it to ping you one way or the other, because thez's accusation is the exact same thing what you accused me of doing. I'd expect it would at least set off some alarm if you didn't hold the same opinion of wayne, because he'd then be pushing this argument on a townie. but you didn't even notice this on the first go around? and if you disagree on wayne and this didn't ping you and you think both of them are town, then why haven't you shown any intention to reconsider your read on me? that would be an indication that shit like that can happen even against a townie, but you still seem completely convinced I'm scum for the exact reason he pointed out?

[pieguyn]

you know what

shoot: MafiaSSK

I'm a 1-shot vigilante and I have to use my shot on D1 or else I lose it. this seems like the best option

[pieguyn]

umad

I hope I didn't mess this up

[pieguyn]

no I'm pretty sure I just shot scum ~

[pieguyn]

SSK quick at least tell me who your strongest scumreads are. even if you don't have any really strong reads

[pieguyn]

I really hope SSK is just trolling us. otherwise, well fuck

SSK: anything else you wanna add

[pieguyn]

Fake shot and I'm calling this a scum gambit to see if he's a PR.

wayne this is the worst logic ever.
suppose I was scum and he was town and the shot was fake. then since he was town his VT claim is correct and we'd already know he's not a PR.
are you really scum after all you've done that made me townread you >_<

[pieguyn]

Why do you want him to claim his role?

Fake shot and I'm calling this a scum gambit to see if he's a PR.

bolded means you're saying my shot is fake and is a scum gambit

but it's not fake anyway so

[pieguyn]

I dunno what to do until SSK flips ;w; I need to quit waking up too damn early.

Maybe? I don't have a better answer than that.

the thing is I'm saying you set up this dichotomy (personal reads vs. no personal reads) and then no matter which side I choose you say it's scummy. if you say one side is scummy and the other one wouldn't have been, it doesn't make sense to go saying "owait now the other side is also scummy".

Eh, I'm calling it as I see it. If I thought you were scum for sure, I'd be voting you. But I don't. Regardless of whether your shot is real or faked, the move you just made looked incredibly town to me, as a start.

I read this as "I can't answer this question so I'll call him town and hopefully he'll stop questioning me" 0.0

I'm really not sure if I'm actually legitimately seeing all this or if it's just paranoia

[pieguyn]

like his posts seem genuine for me, but I can't get this feeling out of my head that he's scum due to what I mentioned > <

last time this happened tho (newbie 1428) my logic was correct and my personal read was incorrect. so for now I go with my logic @_@

also @mastin: I'm actually really curious where you got the idea that I'm a semi-competent player. it makes me feel warm and fuzzy :3

[pieguyn]

that'd be fine, but last time I tried that it turned out the person in question was just doing a good job of emulating her town meta T_T

[pieguyn]

hi bork <3

that shot was fake as fuck. I am a 1-shot vigilante but I must submit my kill via PM. I asked bork if I could fake my shot in thread (didn't want to break another rule ) and he said yes.

I'm about to fall asleep any second now so that extra fluffy post I made right before the new page was cause I was trying to get bork to pagetop so that way I could end this without any second thoughts and fkin sleep @_@

MafiaSSK's very first post after I made that shot leans obvscum (sad that he got shot without really being pissed off about it). the rest of it leans town but it could be because he realized the shot might be fake = = kind of conflicted on the read I got from him.

[pieguyn]

and yeah, I still have to use my shot on D1 or else I lose it. the only fake part was shooting in thread

[pieguyn]

hey that's exactly what I was thinking about his first post after the shot

okay so I wanna shoot him for real now. thoughts?

@thezmon: were you even reading his posts

[pieguyn]

let me ask bork

[pieguyn]

no it doesn't end day

should I shoot now then or should I wait for other people to say stuff

[pieguyn]

Why would town-anybody make such a gambit if not for reals?

hint: it's a reaction test

look at how we're all talking about his reaction :>

[pieguyn]

ok ~

don't get what you mean about the setup but I won't question it for now

I can see an overeager beaver noobscum here.

with a fucking dayvig and the reaction I got is heavily scum anyway? no thx

[pieguyn]

where the hell did I ever say that? his first post was obvscum. his ones after that were slightly town but those don't count cause he probably realized the shot could be fake and started faking them

[pieguyn]

that was in response to zmon, sry for confusion = =

[pieguyn]

NO, GODDAMNIT, NO. HOW ARE THESE BULLSHIT REACTION TESTS STILL FUCKING ALLOWED? They're bullshit! They don't tell anything! Guess what? I'm still town. I'm still whatever my flavor name is, I'm still a freaking VT. No, my first post after the fake shot was not a scum post. You know why? Because I was actually starting to give two shits about this game and then vigged. But screw it! Shoot me if you want pieguy. But these reaction tests are just dumb.

caught scum is caught

if you were really town then you'd be relieved as fuck that you didn't die and that you get another chance to actually give two shits about the game. but this post is nothing but rage 0.0

[pieguyn]

Deadline is in 5 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes

^I'd like a flip and several days to work on the results before deadline please and thanks.

got it~

shot SSK. if he flips mafia we can mb lynch zmon

[pieguyn]

and I was asleep until just now. yay for completely fked up sleep schedule \:D/

curious, is the chance of dying specific to SSK? or would that happen no matter who dies?

okay questions time
can you explain your townread on Varsoon more? cause I still don't see it >_<
what made zmon be the second "vig pool" candidate?
do you think waynegg's abrasive reaction testing style o fposting isn't alignment indicative?
can you explain the GP read more? I'm kind of seeing a similar thing but as I don't have any baseline yet I can't make that kind of comparison for myself.

[pieguyn]

are you fucking kidding me

vote zmon

[pieguyn]

Based on his reactions, Shoot him.

Side note: *cough* Mini Hakero? *cough*

this also seems really scummy. he was just kind of okay with that shot and didn't explain it or question it

[pieguyn]

wow LOL

what do you think about the thing I quoted from TNE? I really don't like how he just gave a vague explanation without really saying anything specific. it seems like an easy way onto the wagon, so to speak

[pieguyn]

actually, the more i look at it, the more i think thez's reaction to the dayvig was town. i don't see thez-scum thinking it's a good idea to discredit someone who has claimed dayvig and isn't particularly fond of him. he'd be walking a fucking fine line hoping pieguy takes a shot at mafiaSSK over him.

was going to say I disagree there'd be much of a chance I'd shoot him from his perspective. I had already pointed out SSK's first post semeed like obvscum. then I realized at first he thought I said obvtown 0.0

I really really really don't like all the wagons on BRO. I don't see anything wrong with him and I'm pretty sure there's at least one opportunistic scum who's pushed him over the course of today. even I'm finding it difficult with every single person here scumreading him to not just say "screw it" and hop on the wagon. if he's town that's something we definitely need to look at. can some people explain their scumread on him plz cause I don't see it. = =

@mastin:

I especially want an explanation from you plz

TNE's self vote literally looks like he was trying to copy Sakura and failed. .-. that's a really kneejerk reaction and he didn't have that much pressure on him, so his "frustration" there seems really fake.

[pieguyn]

went back to take a look at GP cause I was starting to think about him a bit more

I agree with the stance that reaction tests are bullshit. I also hate fucking gambits. But they're a very Town thing to do unless you're renowned for doing them as scum. You can't fake that much attenton whoring, and so Pie's feeling a little better.

However, the sheer amount of whining over a pro-town move stinks of protesting too fucking much. There are so many fucking things you could be doing than shit-posting this.

this pinged really hard for me. so you say that what I did was bullshit, but then throw in there that his reaction was bad anyway? that just seems like something you can come back to no matter what happens and not a definitive stance.

GP was also on the SSK wagon and is one of the people pressuring BRO. and he also put some BS reasons for accusing me in case Varsoon push on me picked up

can you explain the "play based" vs. "read based"? I don't understand what you mean here.

Mostly based on how the game is played, rather than the people contained within it. In other words, I'm not feeling the definite reads vibe from you, and considering you're not proven you're as cheeky as Mastin for example, it feels...off.

he's leaving himself way too many options to vote people and seems to be fine with just about anyone

yeah I'm done

vote: GP

I can make a real case later but I'm lazy ww

[pieguyn]

town
3. Mac
6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd)
7. pieguyn
12. waynegg
13. zMuffinMan

null-town
1. BROseidon

null
5. mastin2
8. Psychlone (GuyInFreezer + Nachomamma8) <- post more
10. thezmon221

scum
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien)
9. thenewearth
11. Varsoon

[pieguyn]

BUT YOU THINK I'M SCUM

So why are you not voting me?

not this argument again plz

and besides I'm voting GP

[pieguyn]

Yo pie GP's town.

I could write up a full case later, I can read Ghost like an open book. His diction changes super dramatically between town and scum.

can you elaborate on this?

if not, do you think that's something he's not able to fake as scum?

[pieguyn]

Similarly, his positions become less defined. After his first post in this game, I quoted a paragraph and asked if he was scum because it was waffley. ScumGhost is waffley. He takes positions that aren't going to ruffle feathers. Town Ghost doesn't care, because he cares less about towncred. As a result, townGhost is more aggressive, and will go after people more.

IMO GP seems to be doing this though

he's hardly gone after anyone and has a lot of waffles like the one I quoted 0.0

[pieguyn]

the first one was about SSK. he's essentially saying what I did was bullshit but that I was right anyway. that way if I end up being wrong he can go back and say again "reaction tests are bullshit"

the second one doesn't make any sense. he's saying I'm scummy because my reads are based on what people are doing and not directly personal. note how he didn't push me at all after I gave my response to that

[pieguyn]

cause I don't see anything wrong with his posts. and I seriously don't get why the hell every other player besides me is scumreading him, which is setting off alarms. I'd really like if someone could explain their scumread on him cause I don't see it >_<//

[pieguyn]

bullshit implies that my reaction test is wrong. but then in the same post he comments that the reaction that we got from that reaction test was valid, implying this one wasn't bullshit. it's contradictory and seems like he could easily waffle off it

can I go drinking with you all ww I'm not legal yet but who cares

[pieguyn]

I went to a restaurant the other day and the guy tried to seat us at the bar not even realizing I wasn't legal. I could probably get away with it <3

He means bullshit as in a cheap tactic.

There's the disconnect.

if it's a cheap tactic, I'd think that would imply that it doesn't work very well. otherwise it'd be a perfectly valid tactic

[pieguyn]

that makes sense, but it's not something I'd be able to understand 0.0 incidentally, some of his positions have been very similar to mine, so I'd be inclined to townread him if I used that reasoning (although I get this is meta based off you and thus doesn't apply to me)

I'm mostly looking for an explanation from all the people who just called his posts terrible without giving a real explanation why, and/or jumped on the wagon.

[pieguyn]

if it's a cheap tactic, I'd think that would imply that it doesn't work very well. otherwise it'd be a perfectly valid tactic

Cheap as in dirty.

if that's the case, I'd think that would serve to imply that the person using it is on the opposite alignment as you. under the assumption that everyone is playing to win, if someone on the same side as you uses it, then there should be no problem, explicitly because of how dirty it is. however, he seems to be raging about it a lot. (then again SSK did the same thing and he was town)

I still think he could easily waffle off that statement if need be, saying reaction tests don't give valid results.

[pieguyn]

Despite grousing to Ghostlin most of this game that pieguyn was scummy,

mind explaining why?

[pieguyn]

wait wtf, GP wasn't even on SSK?

In that case, I really don't like how he was saying he was suspicious of SSK

Did you guys just start realizing that SSK was doing fuck-all? Or did these votes exist for another reason? I approve either way.

I love how people be hatin on the lurkers.

There's this new and exciting thing we call playing the game. It's all the rage with all of us who want to catch scum. And scum usually try to fake it if they don't want to get compromise policy shit lynched Day 1.

It's refreshing to see obv-scum not bother to fake it, tho', it kind of reminds me where I can always go for scum, like a going to the convenience store to get a slurpee.

this just seems like he was trying to further the wagon on SSK without actually being on there. it's another case of him not really pursuing anything and instead just commenting on it

now that I think about it more, if he's really scum trying to fake his town meta via tone/diction, it would explain where the hell that logic on me came from:

can you explain the "play based" vs. "read based"? I don't understand what you mean here.

Mostly based on how the game is played, rather than the people contained within it. In other words, I'm not feeling the definite reads vibe from you, and considering you're not proven you're as cheeky as Mastin for example, it feels...off.

interesting, he's placing suspicion on me because I'm looking at his actions and outright ignoring his tone/diction. but this is just speculation

[pieguyn]

@Ghostlin:

plz explain better your stance on the reaction test? I still don't understand it >_<

[pieguyn]

with that one I was more concerned about his blatant scumpainting. he just assumes that my intent was to get his vote off me, when it was really to confirm my read on him.

note Varsoon also basically want "omg his reaction was obvtown" after he had flipped. especially with him being suspicious of SSK, that's pinging me so hard I don't even. why couldn't he have actually said that before SSK had flipped? either way, it seems like such a massive flip flop and I honestly don't even get how that reaction could be interpreted as town, especially with SSK's first post.

[pieguyn]

well shit why not just ask him

@Varsoon:

why was SSK's reaction to the dayvig "obvtown"? and why didn't you say this before he flipped?

[pieguyn]

as did I; but why are you still paranoid when it was a reaction test?

I'm just paranoid that she might be scum and my read on her is totally wrong <_> there was a lot of paranoia around the "scumslip", but there's still some left over outside it. I'm less worried cause of her claim of having a 1 in 11 chance of dying, but still paranoia <_>

scumreads at the minute, in order of strongest to weakest are varsoon, tne, {psychlone/GP}

what the hell
that's so similar to my scumreads I don't even. like it's exactly the same except Psychlone 0.0 how the hell did that happen

now that's a reaction test pulled off well.

think we can swing a Varsoon wagon? I'd be all for that

vote: Varsoon

still want an answer from GP tho

[pieguyn]

I want to be useful, but that's not really my job either.

are you fkin serious. this is as bad as SSK

[pieguyn]

@zmuffin:

are you still townreading GP? I'd also like to know where said townread came from since I can't find an explanation for it >_<

also, why is BRO's post bad?

the same could be said of a number of people (in fact, apart from... wayne? maybe? the entire game seemed to be softly supporting the mafiassk wagon/vig)

yeah I pointed this out cause use I didn't realize he wasn't even on SSK, which makes his push on him more suspicious than I first thought. you're right in that a lot of people did that tho

[pieguyn]

what is going on I don't even

[pieguyn]

@Pieguy: You say I'm as bad as SSK? He was obv-town and you shot him. Your sheep of Mac reads as a poor attempt at vengeance for my early push on you, -or- an attempt to get me to post more.

you conveniently left out the part where

I've been scumreading you the whole game far before Mac came up with his scumread on you

incorrect plz try again

[pieguyn]

And yet again, if you thought that mastin was scum

Why were you voting thez?

why is every single one of your posts saying something BRO did is scummy? this is Varsoon all over again. you're not focusing on anything besides painting him as scummy

[pieguyn]

Why are you scum-reading me?

Also, if you've been scum-reading me this whole time, why haven't you been voting me this whole time AND pushing for my lynch?

this is the same shit as TNE

why the hell should I have been voting you this whole time? arguments based explicitly on votes only are invalid and this is not a scumtell. yes I was scumreading you, but I wanted to move my vote around to place pressure on others, while simultaneously scumreading you. you are grasping at straws

it's pretty obvious based on my posts why I'm scumreading you

[pieguyn]

-I point out scummy thing you've done.
-I admit said scummy thing, I've also done.
-You say I'm admitting to doing scummy thing.
-Thus, you're admitting said scummy thing is scummy.
-Thus, you are admitting to doing said scummy thing.

by your own logic, admitting to it doesn't make it scummy?

I have no idea what the hell mastin was talking about. still liking a Varsoon vote tho

[pieguyn]

well that was fast holy shit

[pieguyn]

wayne why did you hammer so quickly holy shit

@Varsoon:
1. makes a bad jump on someone near the start of D1
2. when pressured, uses false logic and tries to redirect onto BROs
3. only when that doesn't work, tries to defeat my arguments
4. does nothing but scumpaint me the whole game
5. has no idea what to do now that his whole "scumread" got confirmed town
6. uses even more false logic

this is the same shit as TNE

no, it's because that argument is shit

arguments based explicitly on votes only are invalid

no, it's because that argument is shit

you are grasping at straws

no it's because you're using shit arguments

[pieguyn]

explain your scumread on zmuffin quickly

[pieguyn]

if your points on me are good wouldn't that be even more of a reason for him to sheep you though

oh ok it's over now?

vote: GP

[pieguyn]

@Varsoon:

if your points on me are good wouldn't that be even more of a reason for him to sheep you though

[pieguyn]

varsoon plz note that scum probably saw your claim anyway

in other words what wayne said

[pieguyn]

And what I think is the most important question of all of this: Where the fuck are muffin and thez?

QFT

this

[pieguyn]

Varsoon has an interesting point on Mac. I'm not so sure on him anymore and I'm willing to go with Varsoon's read if need be

[pieguyn]

@wayne:

why is Psychlone in there? and why zmuffin especially after that long-ass interaction with him earlier?

[pieguyn]

I was referring to this

I think that mac's push on me and a lot of his long-winded posts are a bit too forceful/making tons of appeals, even flimsy ones. I'm used to town Mac having a lot less venom.

it's not scumpainting cause it's a valid argument from your meta and experience with him. and I'm willing to trust said experience

[pieguyn]

I'm not joining the BRO wagon unless the only alternative is NL

I'll follow Varsoon's read on Mac if need be

for now I prefer to swing a GP or TNE lynch. anyone up for that?

[pieguyn]

for now yes. I'm going to look at him again later tonight after class, but my read on him might not change

in the meantime, what did you think about this

I'm 6-1 in games where I haven't been mislynched/vigged, and 3-3 in games where I have been mislynched. Therefore, I should never be lynched.

Mastin, are you reading your own logic?

Also, we can add the gratuitous amounts of

unprompted

self meta to why you're scum.

[pieguyn]

Also, we can add the gratuitous amounts of

unprompted

self meta to why you're scum.

that part pinged so hard for me it alone made me question my townread on him

it seemed like he was conscious of what's scummy and what's not, and wanted to emphasize that this was different than his use of self meta to avoid getting called out for it

I'm still townreading him though cause this seems like a really personal thing, but I wanna look at him again

[pieguyn]

im going to spell this out nice and clear for you, pie. just so everyone's on the same page.

I'll follow Varsoon's read on Mac

if need be

vote: TNE

[pieguyn]

what do you think of TNE's posts p44/45?

his anger seems really really fake. it looks like he was trying to copy Sakura (he/Sakura/I know each other) and just failed

also his argument about "omg why are you not voting me" is bad

also, since I have a completed game with TNE-town now (offsite) I can say he's acting different here than he was in that game. there was none of this "anger" and his reasons for voting people were way better. although he himself claims his meta is inconsistent so

[pieguyn]

I don't think your use of self-meta was scummy. the thing that pinged me was how you put a lot of emphasis on "unprompted", like you were conscious of your own action when you made it.

[pieguyn]

looked at BRO again, and hardly anything pinged me at all besides that one post. the only other thing that even pinged me was this

This was too cogent for your town game until I got down to the last line.

UNVOTE: Varsoon

bc I still don't see how the hell that's a valid reason for townreading someone, when it can be easily faked. but likewise, I don't understand zmuffin saying mastin wouldn't say "I'm town" as scum, so idk

I think "lack of content" is a really shallow reason for pushing on him. there's content in there but you have to look to see it and I think it's obvious from his posting what his reads were. I seriously don't know if there's some huge thing I'm missing or if there's actual shenanigans going on here. now that I think about it, ffery was pushing him for lack of content

to be fair, i don't think this style is alignment-indicative. i recall having the same issue with the way he caught up in xenogears D2 (the post he wrote during N1).

the thing i don't like about BRO's posts is the amount of nothing in his posts prior to just recently. the series of post-responses he was producing earlier in the game had very little game-relevant content and he said he was busy "finding scum" but never actually looked to be trying to find any scum. also the way he sheeped me onto both the wayne and mafiassk wagons irked me.

Yeah this sums it up pretty well.

when she said I need to read more into her posts herself. ~interesting~

[pieguyn]

@zmuffin:

mastin said he's town, and i don't think he would lie about something like that

do you think that's something he can't fake as scum?

and what do you think about all his posts like 1201? I tried to come up with an opinion but I just got a huge headache so I'm writing it off as town for now and I'll rethink it later > <

[pieguyn]

speaking of the wagons, I tried looking at both of them and my gut basically said "both of them are death". it makes me think both BRO and TNE are town, but then I look at TNE and can't see him being town at all 0.0

I'm also fairly certain there's at least one scum on each wagon atm

[pieguyn]

assuming all of my assumptions are true, I'm thinking it's GP on the TNE wagon and probably morph on the BRO wagon. mostly by PoE and I'm not liking her push on BRO atm, so it would make sense on the assumption that BRO is town

we won't know for sure though till TNE flips

[pieguyn]

it's not about "lack of content" so much as... empty posts? like the scum hunting he's doing is just surface-scratching stuff and there's no real effort to look for scum in any of his posts. yeah, i can tell what his reads are, but i don't think the way he arrived at those reads, or the way he's approaching the game in general, looks genuine.

he strikes me as the kind of player who just naturally posts like that, and mostly goes into observation mode. if we're talking about "effort", I'd be more suspicious of GIFNacho. them not posting much isn't a problem, but none of their posts were really questioning or pushing people.

if you can provide meta that suggests that BRO never does this as town, then I'd find this argument way easier to perceive o.o

[pieguyn]

just over 24 hours left... people need to jump on one of the two wagons, or suggest something better 0.0

[pieguyn]

356 and next post in ISO are pretty cheeky responses to being scumread by thezmon.

do you think this is something he can't fake as scum?

630 reads list is pretty iconoclastic in some ways.

for me this reads list just seemed to list off all the popular opinions at the time. he had Mac/SSK the two lurkers as null, you/me/giffycho/varsoon town, wayne scum vs. zmuffin town, and bro/thez scum. I'm not too sure what's iconoclastic about that, can you elaborate plz?

885, 886 cases on his scumreads. This is way more detailed and thoughtful than what I'm used to seeing from TNE. If he's town I hope he'll play like this more often.

that'd be fine but a lot of the stuff in there was invalid. for example the wayne vote on Varsoon that he had already explained. and IMO posting a detailed case doesn't seem at all like something town-TNE would do. that combined with the previous statement makes me unsure on this

Subsequent back and forth with BRO feels very much like someone who thinks they are talking to scum.

for me it just seemed like he was tunneling BRO the whole game, which again I can't remember him doing as town

[pieguyn]

since I have no completed games with TNE-scum, my meta arguments on him are entirely based on around stuff that I find missing from his towngame

the point about one-liners is interesting. his play in that game actually reminds me of what I know of his towngame, without so many one-liners 0.0 so for now IMO it'd probably be better to attribute most of the meta differences to TNE-inconsistency more than anything else. I could try to make a case on TNE if you trust me enough, but without the meta disconnect it mostly comes down to tunneling and false logic.

but I still don't want to lynch BRO

who the hell should I lynch then > <

[pieguyn]

yeah for now I'm staying on TNE. my methods surely will find me at least one scum >_<

if anyone wants to swing a GP wagon though, I'd be very ok with that

[pieguyn]

@morph:

tl;dr on TNE:
1. full-out tunnels on BRO the whole game with seemingly no focus anywhere else,
2. using false logic,
3. and being hypocritical by not actually pushing anything, when he accuses BRO of doing the same. also, I usually don't notice TNE-town using such false logic. so the presence of false logic here seems really weird for me. I'd think it's kind of similar to your disconnect with BRO.
4. blatantly ignores when people defend themselves against his observations on them and still tries to use it as valid reasoning later on, when it's been defended already
5. really weird anger that seems like he was trying to copy Sakura
6. and on top of that I've never seen him do anything like this as town, but we've already covered that

RBO

are you always like this?

You sound so much like the narrator on the stanley parable.

All you do is pretty much commentate on everything people do for 1 time, and then you don't pursue anything after commentating.

Do you think that what their doing is for scum?
or for town?
Why can't you ever, EVER, pursue and/or explain what's wrong with the stuff you quote?

Plus, the only vote you did was a varsoon vote. ON THE WHOLE GAME
TO TOP IT ALL OFF
IT WAS THE MOST POPULAR WAGON OF IT'S TIME

Scuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmzzzzzzzzzz

here he's accusing BRO of just commentating on stuff and not pushing people. however, there were multiple instances of him doing the same thing.

not only that, but I never saw any kind of push on people like GIF who similarly commentated on things, without really pushing anywhere. he's selectively applying these arguments on BRO for seemingly no reason.

I really think that you're doing the same, though.

comments on Varsoon being hypocritical but doesn't push him on it. this indicates an inherent contradiction on his comment on BRO. using his own logic, he's scum

Oh now who's buddying?

>.>

same thing, says it looks like buddying but doesn't continue scumhunt here or pressure wayne

5) WELL THAT MAKES IT WORSE THEN

this is the first interaction he really had and he's not even continuing it, instead joking about it. I don't get why he wouldn't pursue here more. especially when he accuses BRO for just "commentating", this seems like exactly the same thing. BRO explained himself. but he doesn't seem to acknowledge this?

And those 5 pages

Were pretty much nothing but insults and the likes.

So... >.>

I'd just leave this here.

BRO scumz
Ghostly Penguine Null-town because of his latest post
Mac null
SSK null
mastin gut-town
Morph town
pie town
psychlone town
tezmon null-scum
varsoon town
wayne scumz because of the exchange with muffinman
muffin town ^

I already explained why this reads list pings me. for me it just seems to be going with what everyone was saying at the time. note this was around the time of GP appearing more town than before and before mastin had posted much content, and everyone was scumreading BRO/thez.

Already Said why I don't like these posts.

half the posts he quoted from BRO weren't even serious, but he's treating them like they are. it seems like a cheap argument, since if he even read into those posts at all he'd see they weren't serious.

Didn't you just say that Varsoon was scum and you were so sure of it? You even used his logic against him. I thought for sure you nailed it?
What made you think that pie vs. varsoon was town vs. town? Don't give me the "OH BECAUSE BOTH DIDN'T BACK DOWN" Reason because it's not really a good reason.

wayne already explained this vote. but he seemed to completely ignore this explanation?

5) Self-Meta in attempt to look town

circular logic. the "attempt to look town" only makes sense if BRO was mafia in the first place, and he's using that to draw the conclusion that BRO is mafia

Then why not vote me?

You think I'm scum?

You think mastin is my buddy now huh?

Here

Lemme help you in lynching me

VOTE: TNE

this anger seems really fake

And yet again, if you thought that mastin was scum

Why were you voting thez?

the voting fallacy. I've already said why this logic is false. this is not a scumtell whatsoever and I always find my vote doesn't match who I'm pressuring whenI wanna pressure multiple slots. the fact that he resorts to these shallow arguments to vote people, IMO, indicates he's not really trying to scumhunt in the first place.

[pieguyn]

I'm not sure atm if TNE or GP would be a better lynch. but that's my case on TNE. I'd also like to hear more from thez.

though I like the methodical nature of your play.

<3

[pieguyn]

The problem I had with you with the two earlier posts I posted earlier is honestly, mind-fuck is one of scum Ghostlin's favorite games. Post things that are strictly true and make Town fucking sweat about whether or not you're talking out of both of sides of your mouth.

Mastin's freaking out about things he really shouldn't. Guys, if I'm fucking scum, you'll know soon enough.

so mindfuck is one of scum-Ghostlin's favorite games? why the mindfuck here?

also, if you dislike Varsoon's AtE, do you think his doc claim is a fakeclaim?

vote: GP

[pieguyn]

vote: TNE

have to go to class now real post coming later

[pieguyn]

This is one of the reasons I hate the use of meta so much.
Attitude meta and gut-meta stuff, I can dig
But game metas are just being abused now.

why are you trying to write all the townreads on BRO off on meta? my townread doesn't have anything to do with meta and I have no completed games with him

mastin you're doing it wrong. if you're giving a summary of what happened, you shouldn't be throwing your opinions in there too

@AA9:

I'm a dayvig and I shot SSK. Varsoon claimed 2-shot 2-person doctor and waynegg claimed "vanilla on N1 and watcher from N2 on". it's true that a lot of people are reading wayne/morph as town, but they're not conftown. deadline is in 2 days so hurry up :>

[pieguyn]

@wayne:

can you explain your vote on Varsoon plz? as soon as I saw it I thought you had a certain thing in mind, but I haven't seen said certain thing yet.

[pieguyn]

@Ghostlin:

can you plz explain your definition of "mindfuck"? I don't think we're interpreting it as the same thing.

I also don't see how this

Guys, if I'm fucking scum, you'll know soon enough.

isn't designed to make town second guess themselves?

And you don't value me?

Do you actually feel like this is a reasonable question?

I didn't read it as serious

[pieguyn]

about that whole post? I know I'm tired as shit right now but I didn't think it was that bad 0.0

also, if I'm talking to ffery, how was my case on TNE

[pieguyn]

I'll do wayne and thezmon tomorrow and the following day

Today is just BRO's day.

no. do them now, or risk getting lynched :>

[pieguyn]

cause you might get lynched. I'd think you'd at least wanna share your final reads in case you get lynched

[pieguyn]

wow really

so nothing that's happened since page 28 has changed any of your reads?

also why Mac?

[pieguyn]

@wayne:

can you explain your vote on Varsoon plz? as soon as I saw it I thought you had a certain thing in mind, but I haven't seen said certain thing yet.

Can I or will I? Yes, I can.

>_<
explain it plz

[pieguyn]

give me a serious answer plz

[pieguyn]

I was thinking there was someone who was scumreading someone for sheepy votes, and so you were trying to see if he'd accuse you of doing the same thing. but apparently that wasn't it .-.

for the record he didn't and now I have to go back and look to see who it was

[pieguyn]

Aside from their softclaim and how they've been handling it, the overall vibe from their posting is definitely the town-them I'm used to seeing.

they said they had no completed games as town wtf

@morph:

have you two sorted TNE yet?

[pieguyn]

Ghostlin is giving me a headache, mostly because now I'm questioning my read on him @_@

Not going to think whether or not Var's role exists or not. Conjecturing that is a slippery slope to nowhere. On role knowledge alone, he's Town. On game play, he's acting pretty fucking dodgy for Varsoon.

this seems town for me. he basically just came out and said "I'm doing things my way and screw you all", which I really like

I hate zmuffin's "fakehammer". for some reason I get a really terrible feeling off it. he has nothing else to say besides a fake fakehammer, which doesn't even do anything? the tone there also doesn't seem legitimate, but I'm not too sure on that

[pieguyn]

And you don't value me?

Do you actually feel like this is a reasonable question?

I have your content so far to evaluate.

The problem with nachogif is lack of content, but they both have reasons they can't post much atm and it's a site-wide thing. GiF just replaced out of a ton of games a couple days ago, and Nacho's laptop was stolen.

What happened to you being unsure of Nacho/GiF?

A little thing called content happened.

wat

[pieguyn]

AA moves into scum-designated mislynch-bait territory!

atm I'd be very ok with an AA9 lynch. this statement is confbiased as hell

wanna wait to see what she does first tho

[pieguyn]

is there something in particular you wanted me to comment on? i was fine with BRO being at L-1 and not much had happened that i felt was worth mentioning.

nothing specific, but can you explain why you chose that way to put him at L-1 plz? cause I srsly don't get of all the ways to put him at L-1 why you'd do a fake fakehammer 0.0 no matter how much I think about it I can't make any sense out of it

[pieguyn]

oh nvm. I thought Varsoon's vote was L-2 @_@

[pieguyn]

@morph:

do you think TNE might have been trying to bus BRO?