Mini 1525: Tales of The Abyss Mafia GAME OVER!

[The Rufflig]

*Yawn*

Hmm?

Oh, it's open! Good morning! Let's get started ... erm ... well, it will have to wait until this evening.

/confirm

[The Rufflig]

Ok, so I missed a bunch.

Regarding "blue townie", my first thought was Kaze was role fishing. Some mods do use blue for town PRs. Kaze's later posts give me the feeling that this wasn't the case. His postings have grown on me a bit.

Much as I didn't like the blue townie trap, Fuzzy reacted badly to it. A town Fuzzy should have known he hadn't scum slipped when the votes suddenly came at him. The fact that he took those votes so seriously gives me pause. I'm going to be keeping an eye on him awhile longer.

Deacon is town telling. I don't like Deacon's heavy reliance on meta, but he is definitely putting in the effort. Deacon reminds me quite a bit of pitoli (who I am more familiar with).

I just got out of a game with pitoli - he wears his towniness on his sleeve for all to read. I would be very sad to learn that pitoli can fake this. I haven't seen his scum game, but I bet it isn't as good.

I still can't read Nacho for much more than beans, but I'm willing to give Prohawk some attention.

VOTE: Prohawk

L - 1

[The Rufflig]

can someone please unvote?

All right, I can wait until tomorrow.

UNVOTE:

[The Rufflig]

I don't understand what this means.

Pretty much what it said. I didn't like Prohawk's response, but I'm willing to back off until he has some time. Tomorrow, I'll decide whether to put the vote back or not.

[The Rufflig]

Haven't read the game.

Here. Have some incentive to do so.

VOTE: Tammy

[The Rufflig]

I'm also up for MafiaSSK, if anyone wants to go a hunting off wagon.

[The Rufflig]

You're reacting very badly to an obvious pressure vote.

[The Rufflig]

Do you know why the Prohawk wagon took off in the first place? If you know that, you can understand why I'm up for a MafiaSSK wagon and why I'm also all right with your wagon.

[The Rufflig]

Well, it is a serious vote now and you've provided plenty of reasons for it.

[The Rufflig]

I am voting with you in spirit, tammy.

That's discouraging. I was town reading you.

[The Rufflig]

What!!!?

My post was bad??? Did any of you read orcinus' post? And you don't see it? What is this a newbie game where I have to explain everything? Fine.

What was wrong with orcinus' post was a few things. Voting in spirit is egging on a wagon that one is not a part of and has not commented on -- very bad. It is vague and

non-committal

. Second, orcinus' vote was only on Prohawk as a pressure vote, if he thought he had ground to vote someone else there was absolutely no town reason not to do change his vote - don't tell me he simply forgot considering the words he used. Scum, however, would be more inclined to see which way the wind blows before making a stand one way or another - which is exactly the sort of behavior orcinus displayed.

---

@Minami no Hana: None of the players I listed had taken any stands on any players. I was quite willing to pressure any of them. (Unless you want to count "Oh and I want to give fuzzy a hug, which means he's town." a stand.)

[The Rufflig]

@ The ruffling
Please explain you motivation(s) for puttting a vote on Tammy. From my POv it seem like a kind of weak reason... If it is a push it kinda seemed like a pointless push. Meaning there are better reason to push a player.

It was a pointless push. I had already stated that I was going to reconsider Prohawk today. With that in mind, no vote of mine could have been considered all that serious. When Tammy said she hadn't read the thread, I couldn't help making a flippant comment and put a vote with it. I had absolutely no expectations of anything happening because of it. Tammy certainly wasn't in any danger of getting lynched, but then she blew up and took it so seriously. That is not a reaction that I see often and I don't recall ever seeing it from Tammy before.

[The Rufflig]

I can go through a detailed analysis if I really need to, but I think the differences are pretty obvious

I'm not going to read through those games - at least not on day 1. Your earlier quotes of players from other games do not illuminate me in any way. I am fairly bad at meta reading people based off of games that I've read, but not participated in. If you could just give a sentence or two about which way you are meta reading these players, that would be much appreciated. These seemingly random quotes and links tell me nothing about how you are feeling about these players.

[The Rufflig]

What is wrong with asking you to actually make an opinion on someone?

[The Rufflig]

What!!!?

My post was bad??? Did any of you read orcinus' post? And you don't see it? What is this a newbie game where I have to explain everything? Fine.

What was wrong with orcinus' post was a few things. Voting in spirit is egging on a wagon that one is not a part of and has not commented on -- very bad. It is vague and non-committal. Second, orcinus' vote was only on Prohawk as a pressure vote, if he thought he had ground to vote someone else there was absolutely no town reason not to do change his vote - don't tell me he simply forgot considering the words he used. Scum, however, would be more inclined to see which way the wind blows before making a stand one way or another - which is exactly the sort of behavior orcinus displayed.

Do not force me to use my hug of death

1) Voting in spirit is me commenting on how the vote on you was a good vote
2) My vote on prohawk was not just a pressure vote. I feel like Prohawk would've been more active in this game if he were town. Same goes for mara.
3) You had one vote on you. Prohawk was at L-1 a while back. "Seeing which way the wind blows" makes no sense since I switched from Prohawk TO you.

Ok, lets see.
Point 1 was already answered in what you quoted above.
Point 2 - at this point in time, Prohawk had already explained why he was not so active.
Point 3 is an obvious misunderstanding of what I posted.

Done.

[The Rufflig]

he'd be trying to talk me out of my scumread rather than attacking me instead

You know what? I've never ever managed to convince scum that they are indeed scum. I also can't convince scum that I'm town. I also don't try to sway players who have clearly already made up their minds. So, I don't try. My points are for the other players to read and evaluate - as they are the ones who will vote for you. I feel I've addressed all your points adequately. Since no one else seems to be confused or have questions about them, I don't see the need to get in a childish argument with me saying that I'm town and you saying that I am not over and over again.

[The Rufflig]

How did you interpret my request that (someone) unvote prohawk? Furthermore, what is your current read on him?

You seemed concerned that someone might quick hammer Prohawk and end the day prematurely.

My current thoughts on Prohawk: Unengaged with the game. Does not care if he is lynched or not. Pressure will not work on him. I do not expect any meaningful contributions from him. Null. (Although, if he's town and has no intention of playing, he really should do the honorable thing and replace out).

[The Rufflig]

You people are awfully chatty.

I think Kazekirimaru's claim looks towny (though I'm a sap for a good claim). Even if I put Kaze's alignment aside for a moment, I think it would be a very gutsy move for a scum Kaze to confirm a scum buddy - this isn't a sense I got from Kaze. I believe that orcinus is probably town.

pitoli is slipping back down towards null.

I think Nacho may actually be town. This is just based on my previous games with him.

MafiaSSK initial foray into the game looks encouraging, but I'd like to see him keep it up.

---

Minami no Hana is obviously skimming which I do not like. Case in point:

Rufflig: Leaning Scum, I didnt like his vote hoping everytime someone did as much as suspect him, and his vote on prohawk seemed opportunistic (bus?)

It was the other way around. I voted Prohawk then Prohawk named me as scummy. I voted Tammy then Tammy named me as scummy.

---

@Ms Marangal:

Talk to me about your FuzzyLogic vote. It seems to me that you ought to have a reason for your votes by this point. However, while I see lots of reads in your postings, I see almost no reasoning behind them. This vote isn't going anywhere without some pushing - pushing that neither you or anyone else is providing.

[The Rufflig]

Hey rufflig - pretty sure I asked you a question in there. Pretty sure you didn't answer it. Do you need help finding it or did you ignore it because you knew if you tried to answer it your response would amount to uhbuhduhderwewooflickerspork?

It looked like a rhetorical question. Btw, do you also want an answer to "do you have something against hugs"? Your most recent post just screams that you're merely trying to get a rise out of me because you've nothing better to do. You're not actually expecting an answer with that sort of attitude. I'll answer your question anyway.

If you haven't noticed by now, I tend to look towards behavior in conjunction with what someone is saying. Your reaction to a facetious post was all wrong. I pointed it out. You came across a lot like a scum caught for the wrong reason. Did I really need to break this down for you? You've tried to hand wave your behavior away by saying that I've only seen your scum game in which you were not under suspicion until end game. So, in essence, you've already admitted that I had not seen that type of behavior from you before. In spite of the length of this disagreement between us, you've failed to make any meaningful explanation of your behavior.

Earlier on, you stated that I didn't need to put a vote on you as I could read your reactions from the others voting you. Might I remind you that you went off on Kaze as soon as he voted you as well? Perhaps you'd like to explain why you are so prickly towards everyone who votes for you?

[The Rufflig]

I think I'll spare everyone the wall war.

So, Tammy, your case on me boils down to:

1) I made a pressure vote on you in a flippant way
2) I pointed out out a strange reaction in your play
3) I didn't include a serious case with my original flippant post.
and
4) I waited until after my vote turned serious to start making a case on you.

That is a wonderful case, Tammy -- for me being town.

---

No, you haven't explained your reaction in any meaningful way. I don't believe that you can read my original post with the vote on you in a serious manner. It is obviously not serious. The fact that you are unwilling to admit it is very telling.

[The Rufflig]

It is hard to scum hunt when I have to spend so much time defending myself from made up BS. Perhaps, you've never been in such a situation, so you won't understand. However, there is only so much time that I'm willing to devote to this game. If I'm required to spend all that refuting complete BS, then that is what my play will look like.

---

@Ms Marangal:

I'm sad that you don't want to talk to me, but your quoted reason for your vote is insufficient. Fuzzy bringing up lurking is odd, but you can see where it could come from? That isn't a ringing endorsement of scum. An apology for voting another player seems to be the main basis for your vote.

[The Rufflig]

The hypocrisy of Rufflig is dripping hot. Hypocrisy-fake-fake-scum.

No hypocrisy here. MafiaSSK was not making

any

effort initially. His explanation was over committed and lack of interest in this game. The first is somewhat legitimate reason (short term) the second is not. However, he did promise activity, which he came through with. You'll also note that when

you

declared you were too busy with exams, I was willing to give you a break until after your exams. I'm actually

trying

to scum hunt, make observations and defend myself as necessary. There is quite a marked difference between the circumstances.

Have you got any other thoughts?

[The Rufflig]

Hey, Nacho. Mind if I bounce something off you?

MafiaSSK similar to Aunt J?

[The Rufflig]

That read was made after your exams and by request of another player. At that point, you still had not shown any intention of playing the game.

[The Rufflig]

Ahhan, and by that you presume to know my exam schedule. I still think your read and vote on me were crap.

You told us on Tuesday that you had an exam tomorrow meaning Wednesday. The read came Thursday. You never mentioned any other exams on any other days.

---

How so? I mean I get one was scum and the other is likely scum but I don't see any comparisons past that. Doctor who is a hazy memory.

Anyway, There is something I wanted to say.

This is likely the last I'm going to say about Tammy for awhile.

Scum Tammy is known to occasionally make a crap case on someone early on to appear to be scum hunting. That is what she's done here. She never believed her own case. However, she was quite adamant about her read. Look at this:

Holy shit. You're scum.

There was no reason to make such a statement as she had been saying all along that I was scum. I would have expected 'That was incredibly scummy' or some such. Not a statement that boils down to 'OMG, The Rufflig is actually scum!' Which proves her initial case was BS. At this point, if she had been on me for a reaction, she would have abandoned her initial case and just focused on what she found scummy. She didn't. She repeated her made up case on me as part of her new case. This isn't a townie mind set.

Obviously, all of that requires that this is multiball or there is a third party of some sort in play. The truth of that is likely to become apparent tomorrow. If I get lynched, I'd like you to remember this and look into Tammy tomorrow.

---

Yes, I know I come off badly on defense. It's something that I get to do maybe once a year, so I'm terrible at it. The last time was last December (as town) and I didn't do all that much better than this. Me being bad on defense is simply that - I'm bad at it.

---

Anyway, I'm going to see if I can dig up Tammy's partners.

[The Rufflig]

@ Ruff
Are you claiming that you are part of a third part mason or something bc that is what i am getting from your post

No, I'm not part of a mason group.

---

You know what's bothering me? The "Tammy is known to occ soon ally..." Which is again you trying to act like you know anything about me when you don't.

I looked you up.

[The Rufflig]

GOD DAMN IT!!!

I need to talk to the mod.

I apologize to everyone for my utter stupidity in linking that quote.

[The Rufflig]

Huh. Not modkilled. Well, that's a plus. Not forced replaced either. Also good.

Are you bouncing this off of him because you think nacho is town and value his reads on another player?

Also where is your paranoia of nacho?

It's slowly dissolved over the past three years. Ask Nacho. I only tossed him a couple easy probing questions last game. And yes, I think Nacho is probably town.

You know what's funny and what makes me feel like I'm even more right? This fake, let me dig up Tammy's partners. You're not inexperienced. You know that making partner analysis before a flip is bunk. You know that reading people off a read that could be completely incorrect is a horrible way of scumhunting, but yet you're doing it because you need a fake means of scumhunting.

You know what's funny? You can blatantly make this crap up and not get called on it by anyone else. Where did I say I was going to do partner analysis? Nowhere. Where have I made a case on someone else based on a relational tell? Nowhere. Yet, you feel the need to justify your case by adding more made up stuff to it. I'd be laughing, if it wasn't actually working.

You do realize the OP says there are only two win conditions right?

*sigh* No, I didn't read the OP that carefully. I only skimmed it to make sure there weren't any new mechanics that I needed to know about.

Cool. What games? What did you learn from them?

Nothing. It just confirmed what I already knew. You have a sense of humor and town you doesn't go off on players early day 1 for making a joke - at least I didn't see any game where you did. Your read on me was manufactured that much is painfully obvious. Pushing a manufactured read as serious = scummy. It's damn frustrating that no one else can see this.

[The Rufflig]

Seriously, guys. Mara's play was scummy and Myko's certainly didn't do the slot much better. I put down a metacase and Myko shrugs it off with the most uninspired "ehh, I just play how I feel. That means nothing" defense I've ever seen. Have you ever seen a townie that cavalier about being accused? Not an ounce of indignation? He's not even trying! Practically laughing me off.

What do I have to do to get you guys to see where I'm coming from?

I wasn't a fan of Mara, but I rather like Myko. What I like most about him is that he isn't going with the flow. He has put in his own ideas for everyone to consider and mull over instead of retreading the same old ground.

VOTE: Minami

[The Rufflig]

@Prohawk:

Yes, I know the alignment doesn't change. I wasn't able to get a good read on Mara. While I may not agree with everything that Myko says, he seems to be fairly open with what is on his mind and like I said - he isn't coasting on the majority opinions to try and blend in. I care about a player's alignment, not how accurate I think their reads are.

[The Rufflig]

@Prohawk: Are you still scum reading Nachomamma8? If so, would you mind explaining why you feel Nacho is scum?

@MafiaSSK: A couple things struck me as off that I'm hoping you could expound on. Minami went from scum to less likely scum before her most recent reads post. I don't see why your read on her lessened while she was not doing anything? The second is that your scum read on me increased in that same period. Why didn't you apply pressure to me or switch your vote?

[The Rufflig]

@Prohawk: Are you still scum reading Nachomamma8? If so, would you mind explaining why you feel Nacho is scum?

@MafiaSSK: A couple things struck me as off that I'm hoping you could expound on. Minami went from scum to less likely scum before her most recent reads post. I don't see why your read on her lessened while she was not doing anything? The second is that your scum read on me increased in that same period. Why didn't you apply pressure to me or switch your vote?

My gut shifted a little on both accounts?
But if you want pressure shifted on to you. Here you go

Vote rufflig

So, your read changed on Minami because of "gut". I didn't ask why your read on me changed, but that too was "gut". Your reason for sitting on the sidelines and not pursuing your scum reads was "Dodge!". Thanks for clearing that all up for me.

If I'm not mistaken, your scum reads on Fuzzy and Orci were for low reasoning and going after easy targets. I'm certainly glad that the reasons for your reads are much better. Ok, fine - Orci isn't so easy currently. Picky, picky.

[The Rufflig]

Going to bed and resetting tomorrow ><

You've overslept. I am not finding you as transparent this game and that is beginning to concern me. How do you feel about mykonian or MafiaSSK?

---

Minami: I'm not sure how to read her. Sakura has said that she prefers to take the back seat in a hydra and bounce ideas off her partner. She has also said that her current partner doesn't like to talk. The one thing that I can read is that Sakura doesn't appear that engaged with this game. I base this partly on the number of gut reads she listed and partly the lack of communication between the two heads. What I can't figure out is if the disengagement is because she is relying so heavily on GiF or not. I've been unable to come to a satisfactory conclusion on this slot. I was hoping Gif would have shown back up by now and there would have been some time to try and get a better read on this slot. I do not think that I will be able to come to one with the time remaining and GiF still absent.

---

VOTE: MafiaSSK

[The Rufflig]

I've got a few questions.

Is GiF coming back anytime soon? If not, are you going to take the responsibility for the vote?

Why are you so comfortable with my lynch when you don't know why you're voting me or the strength of the read GiF had? Is it possible that GiF was just putting on a pressure vote?

In the absence of GiF to make a decision, who do you want to see lynched?

[The Rufflig]

Quote/post any questions y'all have/had tto me.

Are you caught up, GiF? There's little point in asking you, if you aren't.

---

He's talking about post #1157, as far as I can tell, Fuzzy.

So rather that than ssk who has reads that I can understand rather then what some other people post about here.

Although, the reads the two of them hold are similar. I suspect it really comes down to the reason for the reads.

[The Rufflig]

So is MafiaSSK's flip confirming Prohawk or was he just a day target or something??

No.
From a wikipedia on Jade Curtiss,

He is the creator of fomicry, a field of science that focuses on the creation of "replicas"; and earned the nickname "Jade the Necromancer" because of his former habit of extracting replica data from fallen soldiers on battlefields for experimental purposes.

This sounds a lot like a coroner. Anyway, I've got a couple ideas who Anise's Beloved refers to. Prohawk's new name is unrelated to any flips and was the result of a night action.

---

pedit: Ok, if we're naming names, it could also refer to Florian a replica of Ion.

[The Rufflig]

Either way I would say Pro-Hawk is town

I tend to agree. The number of town is starting to make me uneasy, though.

[The Rufflig]

Either way I would say Pro-Hawk is town

I tend to agree. The number of town is starting to make me uneasy, though.

I feel like you're parroting what a number of players have already said.
Who's town?

Kaze, Orci, Nacho, Mac are fairly strong town reads.
Myko and Prohawk are probably town.

---

I say probably for Prohawk for a reason. My concern would be whether or not names are always tied into alignment. I suspect they are (or at least mostly) or this whole public role name thing becomes pointless. Nevertheless, a name cop of sort that can investigate others and reveal the results while staying hidden gives me a twinge of doubt that all the names are tied into alignment.

---

If we think Kaze is town then Orci is town. If we accept that names mean something then Prohawk is town. Given that, the player causing names to become public? Yes, probably town and can reveal himself at any time. That is 4 town on day 2 before factoring in reads.

[The Rufflig]

Seriously Rufflig - No paranoia on Nacho at all, not even a little bit?

Want to know what my paranoia of Nacho has gotten me in the past? Nothing. Nacho was town. I'll start getting paranoid when I see a solid reason to suspect Nacho. I can't make a case on Nacho that does not depend on a flip that we do not have. In general, I do not make relational cases without flips. When I have made such a case before a flip, it was because there was a strong connection. However, I've always marked it as a conditional case if x flips scum. I do not recall ever acting on a relational case without a scum flip.

If you want me to be suspicious of Nacho then present something to be suspicious of. As far as I can tell, your paranoia of Nacho depends on my alignment. Since I know I'm town, I know your case on Nacho is wrong.

---

@ Ruff

What , No scum reads??

Who do think needs to be lynched??

I did, but now I need to sort out Minami's claim and sort out why Tammy claims Pitoli is a cop that cleared Nacho. I don't see where Pitoli made such a claim. My initial thought was this is a semi role madness game, so x-shots of different sorts of cops is possible. Then I remembered Kaze's claim and that we have a quasi name cop floating about as well. Even with x-shots this seems to be getting a bit too town sided. Something isn't adding up.

[The Rufflig]

Rufflig, you completely skirted my case on you, Nacho, and Minami and THEN you say crap like this...

I can't make a case on Nacho that does not depend on a flip that we do not have. In general, I do not make relational cases without flips.

Your initial case on Nacho stems back to post 251 where Nacho trashed a bit under half the players. My take on that is Nacho was trying to shake out a few reads. Your most recent case on Nacho relies on a relational tell. "Why did Nacho choose SSK over Rufflig?" You could also argue "Why did Nacho choose MafiaSSK over Mina?" Or "Why did Nacho choose MafiaSSK over Rufflig or Mina?" The argument just doesn't hold up, imo.

As for the rest of the case on him, you pointed out that there were 5 players in common on both your flash wagon and MafiaSSK's wagon. While this makes me want to look at these players closer, it doesn't make me want to lynch any of them by itself.

Guess what? We have flips. Two in fact, and they shed quite a bit of light on the happenings of D1.

I use scum flips for relational cases not town ones.

[The Rufflig]

Merry Christmas!

(Why did the thread have to explode today?)

HE WAS SCUM READING YOU FOR THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME

Yes. So what? My first game out of the newbies was a theme game with Nacho. Nacho was mafia and I was the sk. Nacho fooled me a good portion of that game. I fooled Nacho all game (I won). Since then he has always scum read me in every game. I used to scum read Nacho every game too, but I've slowly grown out of that.

[The Rufflig]

Orci, do you want my claim now or later?

[The Rufflig]

I don't know. Orci responded that he wanted Nacho's claim first and popcorn from there.
I see no reason to push Fuzzy on his neighborhood. We are mass claiming, so it will all come out. I truly doubt he fibbed about a neighborhood. That would be a terrible blunder that would be easily noticed by the end of mass claim.

[The Rufflig]

Guy Cecil, 2-shot Gender Cop
---

Gun to your head, who should Orc shoot?

Whoever he wants. I don't think we should be trying to direct it.

I'm behind. I'll get caught up this weekend.

[The Rufflig]

Rufflig, what is your result from last night?
Why do you think there is a gender cop in the setup when we already have a flavor cop?

You are correct, of course. I did use it last night on Tammy -> Male.

Most likely, I have been given a functionally useless role. It is possible there exists a scum out there whose fake claim gender does not match his true name gender. However, without names and only 2 shots, my role was unlikely to do more than prove that I have such a role.

[The Rufflig]

The only way that would work is if this isn't lylo.

[The Rufflig]

Unlikely.

[The Rufflig]

I'm pretty sure it is Lylo. The unlikely was in response to Mina.

[The Rufflig]

No, no, no. Two scum teams with only 1 kill per night and only a 1-shot protective role for town? NO!

[The Rufflig]

I'm ready.

VOTE: Minami

[The Rufflig]

@ Ruff
Please tell us if you investigated anyone and what was the results

You -> female

@ Ruff
Who do think is scum?

Pretty sure Mina is scum. That leaves two of you, prohawk and Mac. Of those, I don't want to lynch Prohawk today - yes, I have a reason for that.

I am wierded out that the scum killed Tammy. This seems like an odd choice. If No Hana claim is true than she would be a dangerous piece to leave on the chessboard. Unless there is something we missed Tammy seemed to have a pointless role.I do not see why they picked Tammy over NO Hana.

If you believe that Mina is town, then killing her would confirm me. Either Tammy was a threat to the scum or the scum wanted to use her death to make it look like she was a threat to confirm Prohawk. I'm leaning towards the former, atm.

The problem comes down to who has the true investigative roles. We don't know that names are tied to alignment currently. If names are tied to alignment then Tammy was a threat to the scum as she could clear or condemn a player. If names are not tied to alignment then my role and Tammy's role are red herrings. That would make Pitoli and Mina the true cops in this game. Prohawk's alignment can possibly be determined by a scum flip.

assuming No Hana is town and there are three than it would mean

- ProHawk , Ruff and Nacho/ You are scum
Prohawk , Nacho and you are scum
Ruff , Nacho and You and you are scum

*sigh* If Mina is telling the truth then a) it is a two man scum team and b) Mina has a town result on me.

[The Rufflig]

Rufflig, why do you believe Minaho is scum?

Short version: I haven't liked her play and POE both point to her being scum.

@ Ruff
Why are you not for a Prohawk wagon if you believe he is scum
Do you think if you were lynched it would confirm NO Hana.

Of the possible scum left, Prohawk:
1) Seems least likely to be scum
2) Has a chance of being proven Town by a scum flip

I would much rather do a Mac or Fuzzy lynch over Prohawk. My first choice remains Mina.

My lynch will only confirm that Mina is scum, because I believe the game would end. If the game didn't end, then Mina would be mod confirmed the next day correct? So, it isn't merely my lynch that would confirm Mina, but any town lynch.

[The Rufflig]

Irrelevant.

--

Quick question for you: fake claims or unexpected alignments for scum?

If you go by fake claims and think Mina is town then the only possible scum group is Mac and Fuzzy. Evidence for fake claims includes Tammy's role, Mina's role and my role.

Unexpected alignments and Mina town puts Prohawk and myself back into the mix. However, the aforementioned roles are useless. Orci/Pitoli 1 shots + Mina self confirm are the only way to clear townies? I suppose the weak town powers could be offset by only a two man scum team. However, I don't believe it. Furthermore, since I'm inclined to think Prohawk is town, I'm still stuck with the same two man scum team: Mac and Fuzzy.

Let's look at things if Mina turns out to be scum. If Mina has a fake claim, then Prohawk is cleared by Tammy and the only remaining scum team for me is: Mac and Fuzzy! If Mina has an unexpected alignment then Prohawk scum remains a possibility, but not one that I believe in so the remaining scum team is: Mac and Fuzzy!

At this point, my lynches are set by POE and the belief that Prohawk is probably town.

[The Rufflig]

Erm, could you please state what you were confused by? Your questions make no sense.

[The Rufflig]

The one thing that I can make out of your post is that you do not believe that there are two scum in the neighborhood. Actually, if you are town, it would be impossible for there to be two scum in the neighborhood. From my point of view, there must be scum in the neighborhood. If I'm correct about Prohawk, then there must be two scum in the neighborhood.

No matter how I ran the scenarios, I always got back the same answer. Mac and Fuzzy must be scum if Prohawk is town. It doesn't matter if Mina is scum or not - Mac and Fuzzy must be scum. It doesn't matter if fake claims exist or not - Mac and Fuzzy must be scum. There you have it, unless I'm wrong about Prohawk, no scenarios exist for me where the scum team does not include Mac and Fuzzy!

[The Rufflig]

How is Mac /Me the only possible scum team.

I've explained this twice now. Here is the third, final, and simplest way I can put it. Possible Scum: Rufflig, Prohawk, Mina, Fuzzy and Mac. I eliminate myself. I eliminate Prohawk. The only possible scum teams left must include Fuzzy and Mac.

How was Pit and Orcs roles useless??

??? I never said that they were. The aforementioned roles were mine, Tammy's and Mina's in the specific scenario that fake roles do not exist.

How is Prohawk cleared by Tammy

In the scenario where fake claims exist, Tammy has proven what Prohawk's name is. Unless you think there could be a mix of scum: some with fake claims and some with an unexpected alignment for their role name. No? Prohawk therefore must be town in that scenario. Extremely clear.

Why do think there are two scum in the neighborhood when the likelihood of that happening is slim

I've run across a three player neighborhood with two scum in it before. It is possible and imo, it is more likely than Prohawk being scum.

[The Rufflig]

Not much to say here. I think it is pretty clear that the lynch pool is down to Mac, Fuzzy and myself. This means the only players who really have a choice are Nacho and Prohawk. This also mean we won't get a lynch without one of those two players support. Those of us stuck in the suspected pile will likely pile on the first vote made by someone not in the pile.

In other words, the fate of the game rests with Prohawk and/or Nacho.

[The Rufflig]

Correct. It is the same pairing that I had yesterday, too. Nothing has changed since yesterday except that 1 of the players that must be scum flipped scum and one of the players that had to be town was night killed. Today is nothing more than a continuation of yesterday. Day 2 pretty much nailed it all down to this.

[The Rufflig]

No reaction to Fuzzy voting you?

Nope. Fuzzy's vote for me doesn't scare me. Watch this:

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

Neither of these votes means much, though.

[The Rufflig]

Allow me.

VOTE: Mac

[The Rufflig]

Two down, one to go.

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

I've used up all my shots. Night 1 was Tammy -> Male. Night 2 was Fuzzy -> Female.

[The Rufflig]

VOTE: Nacho

[The Rufflig]

I can't believe it. I was fairly certain that I was going to lose.

[The Rufflig]

The reason I didn't ask the mod what would happen if one of us got a title was because the mods refused to state how a necromancer worked. In the same vein, I felt asking the mods about a title vendor would also prove fruitless.

[The Rufflig]

once again i am sorry I let the town down... especially let Nacho down

Shake it off, Fuzzy.

I've made a bad vote or two in lylo as town before, too. Learn from your mistake. The correct move was for you to cross vote me. You won't make the same mistake again. Shake it off.