Mini 1525: Tales of The Abyss Mafia GAME OVER!

[ProHawk]

VOTE: Kazikiri

Anxious Scum.

[ProHawk]

He agreed his role was blue and the townie role isn't blue.

I already said this guy was scum... Kaze, for the record, you are completely off.

[ProHawk]

Hey guys. I will get to who the scum on my wagon is later. Have an exam tomorrow. Although gut says The Rufflig and Tammy.

VOTE: Tammy

[ProHawk]

Its actually great Mac

[ProHawk]

If you don't believe my lack of time to invest, do some research.

I actually don't like Nacho's push on me. I don't like his use of his "reknown" to get people to work with him. He is voting me on lack of conviction and a poor reaction to my being run up... ok.

THIS is your reaction to the flashwagon on you? No diatribes on why everyone sheeping me is a bad idea and shows incredible scum motivation, no rage and anger on how you can't believe that the town is this lazy and horrible? And hell, even lacking that, no analysis and instead easy obvious scumreads? Come on, hawkie.

You're a much better player than this.

Thats funny Nacho cause all of those things you listed, (My diatribes) were not what anyone in the games I had played in considered to be "good play". Don't get me wrong, again I will re-iterate, I don't have time to go through and make lengthy posts and spend a crap-ton of time on the game. You want to kill me for not being super-active? Do it, but make sure you kill the scum taking the cop-out-excuse to lynch someone for it.

VOTE: Nacho

Oh and Nacho, get over yourself. I have yet to see any game-changing moves from you. You are overrated.

[ProHawk]

You want to kill me for not being super-active? Do it, but make sure you kill the scum taking the cop-out-excuse to lynch someone for it.

VOTE: Nacho

this implies to me you're not scumreading nacho, yet the vote says different.

Nope. Scum-Nacho.

[ProHawk]

Why would town-nacho need to poison the well?

[ProHawk]

My current thoughts on Prohawk: Unengaged with the game. Does not care if he is lynched or not. Pressure will not work on him. I do not expect any meaningful contributions from him. Null. (Although, if he's town and has no intention of playing, he really should do the honorable thing and replace out).

This is the biggest crock of crap I have read yet. I didn't sign up for a marathon game... Don't expect me to be here 24/7, but I am reading and keeping up with the game.

The game started on Monday. Today is Thursday. The deadline is in 13 days. I am super "unengaged" for sure.

[ProHawk]

This was the case before I reaffirmed my suspicion on you. Why wasn't I a suspect before that? What does this have to do with anything?

It has to do with why I think you are scum. You are trying to discredit me by implying my read on you is fabricated, when it isn't. Who said you weren't a suspect before that?

My response of "OK" was sarcasm as in your reasoning for me being scum isn't really a scum-tell.

(My diatribes) were not what anyone in the games I had played in considered to be "good play".

Who gives a shit?

Me. Look at the logic of your post.

THIS is your reaction to the flashwagon on you? No diatribes on why everyone sheeping me is a bad idea and shows incredible scum motivation, no rage and anger on how you can't believe that the town is this lazy and horrible? And hell, even lacking that, no analysis and instead easy obvious scumreads? Come on, hawkie. You're a much better player than this.

Your final statement "You're a much better player than this" is showing that you think all of the things that I "am not doing" equates to good play. Therefore it should be clear that you feel like diatribes on people sheeping you/theory on scum sheeping/rage/anger about a lazy-horrible town all is good play.

MY POINT: I don't believe you believe any of that makes me town/is good play based on past experience with how you acted towards my town-play.

How am I poisoning a well by attacking you?

You aren't attacking things I have done so much as my character/play. When you say "I thought you were a better player than this" implies that I am a poor player. Which also implies that my reads/cases are poor and that people shouldn't listen to me. And then you re-iterate your point again:

People understand that you're a generally competent player; I don't see why you would change your playstyle in an effort to spare our feelings.

I can only imagine that is a contributing factor to Rufflig's post on me. So congrats on that accomplishment I suppose.

[ProHawk]

ProHawk would immediately go after me for being antitown as hell with my big wagons without any debate. A wagon forming in the way that it did means that there's no real way to distinguish between town or scum jumping on the wagon; Prohawk would be likely to express that as well. I didn't like the ease that he picked two names to be scum from the wagon with (considering the wagon gave no information whatsoever based on who jumped on it), and I didn't like I wasn't named in his suspects until I reaffirmed my push on him. Timing was late.

Want to know the real fun part about all of this conjecturing about what town-hawk would do?

I am pretty sure Nacho hasn't even been remotely familiar with scum-hawk.

Who said you weren't a suspect before that?

The whole "I think Tammy and Rufflig are the scum on my wagon" implied that when I started the wagon on you in the first place. Why didn't you mention my name if I was a suspect?

I see where you got the idea I suppose. You didn't ping my gut like those two at the time I posted - to answer your question. It took a bit more re-reading and analyzing for me to come to that conclusion. Why does me suspecting you after pushing me make me scum? What real scum-motivation would I have to make today into a Hawk vs Nacho?

Oh Rufflig, would you be so kind as to tell me your thoughts on SSK?

P-EDIT: Have you ever town-read me Hana? Your strat should change to: Scum-Reading ProHawk = Town ProHawk. Town-Reading ProHawk = Scum ProHawk. You will have much better results this way.

[ProHawk]

I could tell you what I would do as scum, but then I would have to kill you.

Also, could anyone explain to me why Kaze's claim pushes him up into the town-ranks? I have a hard time seeing a role that when claimed in thread with give two confirmed town in a 13 player game. Seems a little too OP to me.

[ProHawk]

Also, could anyone explain to me why Kaze's claim pushes him up into the town-ranks? I have a hard time seeing a role that when claimed in thread with give two confirmed town in a 13 player game. Seems a little too OP to me.

1) It seems obvious to me that he had the idea to do it from the get-go (has been hard defending orci all game)
2) Locks him into a certain claim super early, which could prove problematic with flips if he were scum
3) Doesn't seem to have a whole lot of utility to the scumteam even with that
4) The nature in which he claimed seems pro-town: he wasn't doing it to save himself.
5) It's not like masons don't exist in 13p, and this is weaker than that.

Not the way I see it.

1) Yes, this shows he thought long and hard about his role and what to do with it. - Null
2) I don't see why this would prove problematic, especially with the downside of an Orc-lynch.
3) Actually they get to see a role of someone town, which has its pros even if its a role not worth night-killing. Aside from that Mafia-Goons aren't that util anyway.
4) If Orc gets lynched and it mod-confirms him as scum, it was to save himself in a way that would lend him town-cred.
5) How is this weaker than masons? Although point taken on the OP of masons in a 13p... I will think about this for a bit.

[ProHawk]

@ ProHawk
I am a bit concern that your opposition to the Kaze/ Orcinus claim is a soft push to get them lynched and most likely mislynched. What makes you think that scum would take such a big gambit.

What do you define as a soft-push? I already explained the risk vs reward of taking such a gambit. You are wrong that I am trying to get both lynched. What exactly do you think will happen when one of them gets lynched? It invariably confirms or invalidates the claims which would shed light on the other.

@Mara, yes I will do some more digging elsewhere.

[ProHawk]

@ Prohawk

Actually i said a semi soft push- I define this as a small push intented to garner a wagon on someone. Mostly to garner a wagon without getting any notice of doing so. Let me ask you this . Even with the points you made..do you think that scum would take such a big gambit. If so why? Also why should we risk lynching one to confirm the other when they could be easily confirmed by the cop/ tracker with less risk. So I guess I am what is the overall advantage of lynching one of them.

Why do you consider it a big gambit? I actually haven't said anything along the lines of lynching one to confirm the other, what I did say was that when one gets lynched/killed its unnecessary to kill the other which invalidates your point that I am using this as a method to kill them both. My main point of bringing it up was because there were numerous people throwing Kaze into the town pile

because of the claim

.

Where oh where is my admirable admirer? (Not you Nacho)

Could it be that he hasn't posted for *gasp* 36 hours! What's wrong Rufflig? Life gotcha down? Can't spend 24/7 at the computer? Right! You must be a little too unengaged in this game. But don't worry. I don't expect much content from you.

Just kidding. I actually do, but see what I did there? Yeah. Waiting for your thoughts on SSK.

[ProHawk]

I don't need to have a baseline for scum prohawk in order to call you out for acting differently; all I need is a baseline for town prohawk. I never said you were playing to your scum meta, I said you were playing differently and I think that's because you're scum. Why do I need experience with scum prohawk to say as much?

Take just one minute and think about this for a second.

Am I right in saying that you are trying to say acting not like your town meta is equivalent to scum? This thinking is completely fallacious and wrong.

First, who has more motivation to act like your town-self? A scum role or a town? While town doesn't want to be lynched, its a lot more detrimental as scum to be lynched. They have to act like town to not be lynched. In my opinion people emulating their town-self to a T are more likely to be scum than not. People aren't static.

Second, you aren't taking into consideration roles. People who draw power roles act differently as town-power-roles than they would as vanilla roles. Again it boils down to the risk factor of being lynched.

Therefore, without a scum-baseline to base your read, you fail to consider the other possible scenarios as to why someone isn't playing like you believe that they should. Playing differently is not a scum-tell.

I am pretty sure I had responded to all of your questions and if I hadn't please reiterate which ones I had missed.

[ProHawk]

MafiaSSK initial foray into the game looks encouraging, but I'd like to see him keep it up.

HA

AHHA

HA.

NO.

VOTE: Rufflig

The hypocrisy of Rufflig is dripping hot. Hypocrisy-fake-fake-scum.

However, there is only so much time that I'm willing to devote to this game.

!!!!!
!!!!
!!!

[ProHawk]

Tammy, by game-changing, I meant any game I had played with Nacho in. Also, you are no longer a gut-scum-read.

[ProHawk]

Did you ever comment about my theory on you Kaze?

[ProHawk]

That you are scum-clearing Orc so he doesn't get lynched to have you mod-revealed as scum.

[ProHawk]

It's not a complete read but was worthy of a push.

Who else do you feel like needs a push?

[ProHawk]

You'll also note that when you declared you were too busy with exams, I was willing to give you a break until after your exams.

Lies. You wanted me to replace out AFTER I said I had exams. Not feeling the break there.

[ProHawk]

Ahhan, and by that you presume to know my exam schedule. I still think your read and vote on me were crap.

[ProHawk]

I'm around.

I have Tammy, You, and Orc as town reads I feel pretty decent about.
I have Nacho and Rufflig as scum. The rest fit in between at the moment.

[ProHawk]

Speaking of vote counts... I voted Rufflig a long time ago.

Fixed.

[ProHawk]

but I think scum partners would probably fill him in on Orc claim.

How exactly would this occur Nacho?

[ProHawk]

Nacho, since you obviously feel like my case on Rufflig is bad, how about you explain my "line" without looking back at my ISO. What in the world makes you say Rufflig is/was an easy lynch at the time I voted him? Because Tammy was yelling he was scum?

[ProHawk]

I wasn't a fan of Mara, but I rather like Myko.

You do realize the alignment doesn't change with the person right?

[ProHawk]

That nacho suggestion looked like it implied the knowledge of a scum encryptor

Pretty much my point...

[ProHawk]

@Prohawk:

Yes, I know the alignment doesn't change. I wasn't able to get a good read on Mara. While I may not agree with everything that Myko says, he seems to be fairly open with what is on his mind and like I said - he isn't coasting on the majority opinions to try and blend in. I care about a player's alignment, not how accurate I think their reads are.

This is something I just don't get. But maybe its because I don't use personality-tells to scum hunt?

[ProHawk]

players with meta experience with each other

This doesn't work. It just doesn't work dude.

Recall - "I have never once gotten Ffery's alignment wrong in a game because I know her so well" Said Nacho in the game where he had her alignment wrong and screwed over the town from the grave.

[ProHawk]

One instance also doesn't disprove an entire school of thought, hawkie.

Actually, it does only take one instance to prove a school of absolute thought wrong. Something can't be true when its not...

But its beside the point, saying that Rufflig is a weak lynch because I/we/he don't have game experience together is not true in the least. I could fight against the majority and push for your lynch, but I actually think he has a greater chance of flipping scum than you do at this point, and it wouldn't get me anywhere to tunnel on you all day long when I don't see many others wanting to lynch you at this point.

[ProHawk]

Now you are going to have to explain that to me in more detail because I don't see how that makes him an easy lynch over just making it so he can't rely on that for scum-hunting?

[ProHawk]

Having meta experience with other people means that those people have a basic understanding with the way you play.

Isn't this the same thing I said?

[ProHawk]

but as far as i'm aware is something that you should know i do, you know, that thing about voting you until you give me something to sheep?

Trust tell. You should really just be your own person and quit with the white-wool-baaaaahing thing.

[ProHawk]

Not fair to expect 100% accuracy.

I would agree with you except, he presents it as such, which contributed heavily to us both losing that particular game. I am not sure how much his stance has changed at this point.

Rufflig, basically boiling down to him undermining my credibility/poisoning the well. I felt like some aspects of his push on me were fake. His talking about scum-day-chat was interesting, but not completely sure if it was a slip or not.

Rufflig, prohawk, fuzzylogic (oh wait that's you). In order of preference.

How exactly do you come up with these reads? Could you explain to me where or why you feel like I am bussing my "partner"?

[ProHawk]

Would you agree with what I said just above re Cabd and scum chat?

Completely agree, but what is concerning to me is the way Nacho phrased it like he knew that day-chat was a thing. And, I am not leaning town on GIF/Sakura. Still waiting for them to respond to my question.

[ProHawk]

No, no no no!

We are not lynching SSK.

[ProHawk]

I think your read on me is fake. How about you start there.

[ProHawk]

VOTE: MinamiNoHana

[ProHawk]

Read their ISO and tell me where you see town.

I don't like the wagon contents of SSK. At all. The fact that the wagon took off 2-3 days before deadline is a big-red-flag.

[ProHawk]

No man, I am telling you to go do the work for yourself, I can't convince you someone is scum. I will tell you why I think they are scum if you tell me why you think they are town.

What I am saying is scum is capitalizing on the little to no information that SSK has given by running up a quick wagon. Town will join on because of the impending deadline and the threat of a no-lynch if they don't.

[ProHawk]

Bad isn't even the correct word I would use to describe that lynch.

VOTE: The Rufflig

[ProHawk]

So is MafiaSSK's flip confirming Prohawk or was he just a day target or something??

Would this sadden you?

[ProHawk]

Right, so where is scum according to Pitoli?

[ProHawk]

I think the nightkill makes nacho townier than he was.

You should explain this. I don't get the same vibe.

[ProHawk]

Maybe because it isn't obvious?

[ProHawk]

Raise your hands if you're willing to reconsider my case on Myko today.

Anyone?

Talk to me about The Rufflig.

[ProHawk]

what good info is that pray tell

The wagon was absolutely scum-driven.

[ProHawk]

Pitoli, who did you think was lynch-bait D1?

[ProHawk]

Cannot stress enough how much scum pitoli is. She has just came in here discrediting the wagon whilst she did

NOTHING

to stop it or even attempt to stop it. SCUM.

Not only that, but she actually offhandedly encouraged it.

p-edit: lynchbait isn't always town!

Lynchbait: MafiaSSK, Fuzzy? I thought Minami was possibly at the beginning of the Day

I realize the lynchbait /= town comment was re: Fuzzy, but if she honestly thought that then I don't see why she felt that MafiaSSK was such a bad lynch if he was indeed lynchbait.

[ProHawk]

On a re-read of the impending doom of SSK... I think my phrase of scum-driven was made out of spite. A more correct term would be scum-supported. There actually wasn't any one person actually pushing SSK's lynch, more like a bunch of people saying that they would be up for a SSK lynch and then votes just started following as the day-end loomed.

What bothers me the most is the amount of people saying they would be up for a Rufflig lynch, but that wagon stayed stagnant when it came down to actually making a choice.

MafiaSSK (7):

orcinus_theoriginal

, TheFuzzylogic99, Mac,

Nachomamma8

,

The Rufflig

,

Minami no Hana

,

Kazekirimaru

(LYNCH)

And Comparing this wagon to my flash-wagon...

ProHawk (6):

Nachomamma8

, Tammy,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Minami no Hana

,

Kazekirimaru

,

The Rufflig

(L-1)

There is an uncanny similarity of people being just dandy with a mis-lynch with the three most suspicious IMO being Nacho, Rufflig, and Minami-no-Hana. Any three of which I believe should be lynched today.

Nacho

Looking at Nacho's progression of his read of both Rufflig and SSK ...

722 - Vote Rufflig
983 - Explains A Change in momentum off Rufflig, with a reiteration that he doesn't think Rufflig is town but is afraid of a Rufflig town-flip.
989 - Believes SSK to be town based of reads list and not having scum-buddies to correct him.
995 - Prefers not to kill SSK. Is suspicious of Rufflig, but doesn't think he is the right flip for D1.
1063, 1065, 1067 - Asks SSK questions re: inactivity/lack of content, etc.
1128 - Could lynch SSK or Rufflig, but neither gets his blood pumping.

All Culminating to...

Vote: MafiaSSK

?

So really the question boils down to: Why did Nacho choose SSK over Rufflig?

He was essentially the turning point. Both SSK and Rufflig were at 3 votes each, so his vote would have put either of them at 4.

Also, consider the following quote which further concern me:

I don't like how Prohawk ended up on the easy lynch.

I don't like how he fell off when I stopped pushing him, and I still don't really think he's town.

It is ironic how he ended up on an even easier lynch. A lynch of someone who had been lurking/providing little content is a much easier lynch in my opinion than someone who just doesn't have the meta-experience with the player-base.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Rufflig

Trajectory on SSK

209 - Up for an off the ProHawk wagon hunt on SSK
216 - Correlates SSK scum with reasoning behind the ProHawk wagon?
664 - SSK's initial foray looks encouraging (town?) and Rufflig wants to see more.
1131 - Questions SSK on his post.
1141 - Apparently doesn't like SSK's "gut" explanations.

Going to bed and resetting tomorrow ><

You've overslept. I am not finding you as transparent this game and that is beginning to concern me. How do you feel about mykonian or MafiaSSK?

---

Minami: I'm not sure how to read her. Sakura has said that she prefers to take the back seat in a hydra and bounce ideas off her partner. She has also said that her current partner doesn't like to talk. The one thing that I can read is that Sakura doesn't appear that engaged with this game. I base this partly on the number of gut reads she listed and partly the lack of communication between the two heads. What I can't figure out is if the disengagement is because she is relying so heavily on GiF or not. I've been unable to come to a satisfactory conclusion on this slot. I was hoping Gif would have shown back up by now and there would have been some time to try and get a better read on this slot. I do not think that I will be able to come to one with the time remaining and GiF still absent.

---

VOTE: MafiaSSK

Vote placement was convenient. Note despite having talked about SSK-scum his vote didn't come until SSK-LYNCH was a thing. I could see town-Rufflig just wanting to avoid a lynch, however his D1 posts push me over to the scum-side of self preservation. His scum-hunting was limited and yielded limited results.

------------------------------------------------------------------

MinamiNoHana

Trajectory

123 - Slight Town-Lean on SSK
234 - Vote on Rufflig
236 - Likes Rufflig's Posts
238 - Calls Rufflig's Post Bad.
240 - Rufflig is at the top of Scum-O-Meter with SSK in the middleish.
259 - SSK moves up the Scum-O-Meter in front of Pitoli and MAC but Rufflig still sits at the top.
529 - Rufflig is leaning scum. SSK is not found on the reads list.
538 - Rufflig is jumping out at them.
834 - "Why isn't Rufflig dead yet"
1018 - "Can we go on with lynching scum Rufflig and be done with it?"
1070 - SSK is "idk how to read him at all".
1104 - Rufflig, ProHawk, FuzzyLogic lynch candidates.
1183 - "I would sheep Nacho on SSK" - Apparently is now scum-reading SSK
1198 - Doesn't want to vote SSK without GiF's Approval.

Wow I made the account and I forgot the password -.-

You could have let me know in the QT =/

Anyway.

Unvote
Vote: SSK

GiF agrees with this.

And BAM. Trajectory comes out of thin freaking air. With all of the scum-reading Rufflig the whole day. Rufflig was and could have been a thing. At the time of the vote swap, Rufflig was at L-3, and SSK was at L-2.

The one caveat here is I don't really see all three scum working in tandem one right after the other, although not impossible.

[ProHawk]

I actually think that Rufflig could be town.

Lemme guess.... Gut?

[ProHawk]

Prohawk - Is the name you have to be voted by the name you had all along or is it a title you were given?

Its not my name. And thank you Tammy for pointing out the Nacho thing. I was actually waiting for Mykonian to get in here to explain himself, but I think he just caught himself into a trap he knew he couldn't get out of.

[ProHawk]

You're joking with a counter-claim right?

[ProHawk]

Rufflig, you completely skirted my case on you, Nacho, and Minami and THEN you say crap like this...

I can't make a case on Nacho that does not depend on a flip that we do not have. In general, I do not make relational cases without flips.

Guess what? We have flips. Two in fact, and they shed quite a bit of light on the happenings of D1.

If you want me to be suspicious of Nacho then present something to be suspicious of.

I HAVE!

How do you expect me to think you are town when you do no townie things?

[ProHawk]

Now convince me why she is in your town block.
My current town block is:
You, Orc, Kaze, Rufflig, Mac, Fuzzy, Tammy

Which leaves something like:
Hawkie
Myko
Pitoli

And

I sort of doubt myko scum thanks to Mara replace out,

so I guess I'd downgrade Kaze and fuzzy a notch if I was being extra careful.

Lets see... Hawkie, Myko, AND Pitoli all were not on Hawkie-Town's flash wagon. Nor were they apart of a TOWNIE-MIS-LYNCH.

What you are really saying here is every single one of your town-bloc helped lynch town, not only that but a quick-deadline-EASY-lynch.

Nope. Nope. and Nope. And I know the town you wouldn't believe it either.

VOTE: Nacho

[ProHawk]

HE WAS SCUM READING YOU FOR THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME

[ProHawk]

HE WAS SCUM READING YOU FOR THE WHOLE FREAKING GAME

It was fairly clear that the scumread on him wasn't massively strong and not one that I had a whole lot of faith in. Why did you think that I would choose the SSK wagon over the Rufflig wagon if both were town?

Thats a good question Nacho, Why did you choose SSK over Rufflig? Why did you even choose SSK in the first place?

I don't think Rufflig is town.
I don't think you are town.
I don't think Minami is town.

[ProHawk]

But in all reality, if they both end up being town, SSK was the easier lynch. Ironic considering you called me scum for going for an easy lynch.

[ProHawk]

While this makes me want to look at these players closer, it doesn't make me want to lynch any of them by itself.

How about you do this then and then get back to me.

[ProHawk]

Nacho, if you are town, remind me to threaten you with a day-vig everygame to get you to actually make you work.

[ProHawk]

UNVOTE:

I actually like Nacho's change up in pace and it actually resonates more with my feelings on the game.

Orci, vig fuzzy. There is zero reason for a townie to speculate about Lovers.

Hi, Nacho. Still not scum.

and

wait a second WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON

MY ROLE PM SAYS ORCI IS A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THIS

Combined should have led to

at least

a vote considering at this point he is sitting on a Minami-No-Hanna vote. Not a...

Orci

you need to get in here and

explain this discrepancy

to me.

Orci would have no clue about why there would be a discrepancy with someone elses supposed role information. It wasn't Orci's discrepancy, it was Fuzzy's discrepancy with Kaze's understanding of a role name. So to someone who is town, it should be pretty clear something is up (scummy) with Fuzzy (especially when they are being scum-read prior to this realization). I am not seeing a town-thought-process coming from Kaze through this exchange.

Other point: Fuzzy gave a character name, not a role-name.

Other other point: Kaze later said he was going to go on a crusade against Orci, whose alignment he said was MOD-CONFIRMED as town.

Like I said,

if Orci is a vig

, I want Fuzzy shot.

Am I missing something here? Shouldn't you be able to tell by the role name if he is able to kill someone or not?

Then he screws it up again in 1487, or is it just a confusion of definition? To me, role-name is the name of your role whereas flavor/character name if the name of your character?

[ProHawk]

You mean rufflig
Because we were second guessing ourselves like hell on him and we were impatient fellows.

Wait... weren't you and GIF, or Hana and you (Whoever I am talking to) pretty much arguing/at eachothers throats re: my alignment? Naturally I would have thought you would have investigated me considering you two were opposites on my alignment.

My report is easily confirmable by making pitoli hide behind her so

And no. Scum know exactly who is town and who isn't.

VOTE: Minami-No-Hana

[ProHawk]

Okay I'm really going to sleep now, but I don't know what to make of Prohawk coming in here and not addressing the mass claim suggestion or answering whether or not he received a title other than anise's beloved last night.

Humm... I actually typed up a response to you and thought I posted it but apparently didn't. Maybe I should be going to sleep...

I am fine with the mass-claim. Didn't receive any title, just saw the title that people have to use when voting me, which does point to who I actually am character-wise. And in case you were still wondering, I am not apart of any neighborhood.

[ProHawk]

Claiming:

I am Fon Master Ion and am a Town-Aligned 1-Shot Motivator. Not sure if Motivator is a known role or not (I didn't know what it was) but if everyone doesn't know what it does, I would prefer scum don't know until tomorrow.

Who does that leave?

Nacho - Do you believe Minami-No-Hana?

[ProHawk]

Dumb.

VOTE: MinamiNoHana

[ProHawk]

I would also like to point out that Rufflig made his claim to look like his PM but failed to put in Town-Aligned.

P-EDIT: Pitoli was off the mis-lynch D1. I think the only ones left off of SSK's wagon is me, Tammy and Pitoli. If there were scum off, its definitely Pitoli. Also liked whoever mentioned the fact about Pitoli not being limited in her hiding.

What made you change your mind about Minami?

[ProHawk]

I think the only claim we are missing now is Mac's

[ProHawk]

For ease of viewing...

Role-Reveals

Player	Name	Role	Alignment
MafiaSSK	Anise Tatlin	Town-Aligned 1-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard	Town
Deacon Blues	Jade Curtiss	Town-Aligned Necromancer	Town
Orcinus_TheOriginal	Luke fon Fabre	Town-Aligned Suicide Bomber	Town
Mykonian	Nephry Osborne	Town-Aligned Vanilla	Town
Kazekirimaru	Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear	Town-Aligned Stalker changed Town-Aligned Unrequited Lover and Conditional Innocent Child	Town
ProHawk	Fon Master Ion	Town-Aligned 1-Shot Motivator	????
Tammy	emperor peoni	title vendor, basically a fruit vendor	????
Fuzzylogic99	Noir leader of the Darkwing circus	town alligned neighbor	????
Nachomamma8	York	Miller Neighbor	????
Pitoli	Mieu	Hider	????
The Rufflig	Guy Cecil	2-shot Gender Cop	????
MinamiNoHana	Tear grants Girl with a spear	JoaT with 1-shot cop and 1-shot JK	????
Mac	???	???? ????	????

[ProHawk]

Also just realized all of Pitoli, Nacho, and Rufflig claimed with claims that look like came straight from their role-card without the Town-Aligned portion.

Tammy and MinamiNoHana also claimed without the town-aligned part, but their claims were less of a copy and paste and more of a description.

[ProHawk]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rufflig

Really need this flip for my sanity.

[ProHawk]

Kinda like one-shot cop + Miller amirite?

[ProHawk]

Rufflig scum-flip guarantees your scum-flip in my book Nacho.

[ProHawk]

An incorrect investigation in the second case is a loss for town.

With role-madness isn't this what they are going for?

[ProHawk]

You mean hit the godfathered scum?

[ProHawk]

Why does that even matter?

[ProHawk]

I guess what I am trying to say is I think there is a large connection with you and Rufflig if he is scum and his flip would go miles in helping solve that. I have liked the improvement in your play in that it looks a lot more town than your play at the beginning, but something is still nagging me and its the whole Rufflig/SSK thing. It doesn't add up. I can also completely see you bussing Pitoli, because her result on you gave the general appearance of Nacho-town kinda like what Minami said with --->

Like, pitoli claimed hider and claimed that she hid behind nacho.
Doesn't that make nacho town regardless of pitoli's alignment objectively speaking?

Which doesn't actually make you town if Pitoli is lying about being a hider in the event she is scum with you and just trying to push some WIFOM into post-flip-analysis.

Want to know what happened with your "legitimate combination" theory? IT GOT MYKO SHOT.

[ProHawk]

Ok, so you want to lynch Pitoli over Minami?

[ProHawk]

Also, how confident are you now that all three of your neighborhood are town?

[ProHawk]

just like no scumteam with me on it makes sense without pitoli accompanying me.

Wait... so what does that mean if Pitoli flips scum?

No, Fuzzy looks pretty town to me. My top two town reads are actually first Tammy, then Fuzzy (aside from the IC).

[ProHawk]

You wanting to lynch off of the SSK wagon actually frustrates me.

[ProHawk]

Prohawk's new name is unrelated to any flips and was the result of a night action.

This is information he shouldn't have known.

[ProHawk]

Also I can see a godfather being in the setup as there's a supposed miller, so.

Are you willing to lynch Rufflig? Who are you going to vote for?

[ProHawk]

Just want to clarify. Fuzzy was wrong in assuming Orc was Asch the Bloody, wasn't he?

This is actually why I have a pretty good feeling Fuzzy is town.

[ProHawk]

And to answer your question Pitoli, I really like Tammy's thought process with the game and her posts. I feel like she is generally feeling things out and trying to put the pieces together. I don't feel like she is trying to manipulate the thread. And if she were a scum title-vendor, why title town?

[ProHawk]

Pitoli, who are you voting for today?

[ProHawk]

Maybe I overthought on this whole matter.

VOTE: pitoli

L-1.

This is DRIPPING scum. Can anyone explain to me the quick lynch on Pitoli?

VOTE: MinaminoHana

[ProHawk]

I motivated Tammy last night, which was unfortunate, but there were literally no other choices for me to motivate, so there is that.

P-EDIT: This time lynch scum please Kaze.

[ProHawk]

Also why the hell am I not confirmed town yet

Are you kidding me? How about you step us all through this.

[ProHawk]

I don't buy it.

[ProHawk]

Too scum to be scum, got it. So now who is your scum-team?

[ProHawk]

The only way that would work is if this isn't lylo.

Is that me we only have two scums?

Was this your QT plan? To try to make town think its not LYLO and go for the mis-lynch?

[ProHawk]

Right Rufflig, so tell me why you believe Hana

[ProHawk]

Nacho, there is scum in your neighborhood. Who is more likely? Mac or Fuzzy?

Hey Hana, you should be bolding all your "role" questions to the mod.

[ProHawk]

Hana, if you are town, now is your chance to put your "steamroll" out on the line. Go.

[ProHawk]

Hana, I am going to assume you are town until enough people get in here to lynch you. Show me what I am missing.

[ProHawk]

Not comfortable lynching Minami or just not so soon? I would like your input of yesterdays happenings.

P-EDIT: WTF is "Not god general"?

[ProHawk]

Unvote
Vote: SSK
GiF agrees with this.

So I told her to vote whoever she wanted to.

I don't find those two statements by you to be the same.

[ProHawk]

Who should we be lynching today Minami?

[ProHawk]

And how do you know Not God General means not scum?

[ProHawk]

I don't actually think you are a cop, and God General sounds like a person, not an alignment, EXACTLY how you phrased it in 1934.

Do you think I am God General?

[ProHawk]

that said i'd be more comfortable lynching the scum in the neighborhood today

and i'm leaning nacho

thoughts?

Is this a reaction test or are you just not reading the game because you are IC?

[ProHawk]

I would rather kill scum outside the neighborhood. I am thinking that there are two outside and possibly 1 on the inside.

Opinions

This aligns with my thinking. Feel free to think out loud on why your gut is telling you I am scum.

[ProHawk]

I would like to use all five days and get a good lynch....No need to rush lynch....

Yeah, but we don't need to take all five days if we can bank more time for a more difficult LYLO.

If there are only two scum, then we can afford another mis-lynch and would need more time during LYLO. If there are three scum, it is going to be pretty freaking hard to miss with two people confirmed-town.

IC is an innocent child. And if NoHana is not fake-claiming that would leave Rufflig town and Mac scum. Why did you miss that?

@MOD - Can you clarify the time pool thing? As of 1175 we had 400 hours. But after that I haven't seen any more Time-Pool counts. Did we run out?

[ProHawk]

Your fuzzy logic, and it is extremely fuzzy leaves me with a lot of contemplating to do.

I do know its not Nacho, so that leaves you and Mac.

Scum Hana never town-read scum-Ruff. They scum-read Ruff from D1 until they decided to out an innocent result on him. Giving an inno on your partner is dangerous if your partner is going to die first, however if you are going to die and flip scum, its a pretty piece of WIFOM.

[ProHawk]

Fuzzy, I know what my night role does the fact that you assume I dont is extremely strange to me considering I already said I knew what it does. My role gives someone the ability to use their night role an additional time the night following the night I use mine.

Want to know what else is strange? You think they would have killed No Hana over Tammy when they have TWO PEOPLE WHO THEY CANT LYNCH!

[ProHawk]

And why do you have Nacho in your possible scum-pile?

[ProHawk]

Why are you quick voting in what everyone assumes is LyLo?

Because there is literally no way that MinamiNoHana is town. PoE aside, they have been playing like scum and have even ADMITTED to such. I was sad you didn't want to lynch them last game day, and am doubly sad you don't see it now.

"I become confirmed town during LyLo" - The only reason this wouldn't be LyLo is if there were 2 or less scum left instead of 3 scum left, meaning we have a free mislynch, so we... lynch Minami. This is also the type of thing that would confirm Minami as scum on a three player scumteam if we decided to lynch the other two scum first,

which seems like a dumb position for Minami to put themselves in

considering A) their claim makes them MORE likely to be lynched, not less likely and B) why. Cowardly JOAT and fonic JOAT are interesting things now that pitoli flipped town; my initial reason for dismissing them was because the exchange between Minami and Pitoli looked like bullshit scum theatre, but that's starting to look less and less likely.

Hey Nacho, here's something to consider. They already put themselves into this position by playing like scum. They didn't have a choice other than to gambit and gambit hard. The most likely explanation is the one you have failed to consider. TODAY IS LYLO AND IF THEY CAN GAMBIT OUT OF A LYNCH AND MISLYNCH THEY WIN!

But hey, you want to play devils-advocate? Fine. If they are town, today is not LYLO. Then a mis-lynch only puts us at even better odds at fishing out scum because their town-flip potentially clears Rufflig, which would literally slice the possible pool down to Me, Mac, and Fuzzy. 66% chance of hitting scum at random barring godfather (50% if you include Rufflig). Whereas our pool today of not completely cleared town - Me, Mac, Fuzzy, Rufflig, and Minami-No-Hana. Which could be 60% if there are three scum or 40% if there are two scum.

If you weren't conf town at this point I would swear up and down you were scum going for a mis-lynch win. If Cabd added some screw-ball role that allows for scum to circumvent hiders I will rage post-game.

[ProHawk]

Fuzzy, pretty sure I already explained why, but how about you put yourself in my shoes and tell me who you would have motivated.

[ProHawk]

I trusted Tammy.

Are you saying you won't lynch Miami?

[ProHawk]

We still need to clear up the time issue with the mods

[ProHawk]

I agree with Nacho. Since Tammy roles doesnt seem to do anything and I am doubtful of Ruff and No Hana I would of abstain from action. You do see how it can look suspicious that the person you motivated died and can not verify your action.

If I am pretty sure someone is town, why would I not use my role? It would be a waste of a role. If I had any doubt that Tammy wasn't town, or anyone else that I had considered using my role on I wouldn't have used it.

So are you really suggesting that I would night kill someone who would end up making myself look bad in the process? Out of all the choices of people to kill, I chose the one who would make me look worse in the end? Right.

Fuzzy, I can't keep this up with you because your logic is way the freak out in left field and doesn't make any sense. I swear I am just going to blow a gasket with you.

[ProHawk]

No, but I'm not lynching Minami immediately.

Ok Nacho, what exactly do you need to sort out?

[ProHawk]

Fuzzy, I can't possibly have evidence except that I know it worked on me. Would her role have outed someone lying about their claim? Most probably yes, why else would she have died over two confirmed town?!? Use your head man. Secondly, just because I didn't have evidence that her role was useful doesn't mean that it wasn't.

A) I was pretty confident Tammy was town.
B) Tammy had a PR who could have two-shotted in one night.
C) Her role could have potential to be useful,

at worst

it would just give us all titles.

Why the freak would you sit on your role and do nothing when THERE IS A CHANCE it could help?

Role-wise, you can't confirm that what I am saying is true except that my title (mod-given) fits with my claim. And me trying to tie WIFOM to myself as scum is a completely moronic move when I could have avoided this ENTIRE conversation by killing someone else and fake-claiming something else.

[ProHawk]

Can you tell what significance the title given to you by Tammy has to your name and or PR ( if any) Thanks

No fuzzy, go do your freaking homework for yourself. I am done spoon feeding you.

My scum list goes Minami>Rufflig>Mac at the moment.

[ProHawk]

Fuzzy, I am going to do this for you: Only because you refuse to do this yourself. There are probably spoilers in the below information if you are going to play the game.

Spoiler: Wiki on Anise's Beloved

Ion -

Anise is the most trusted member of Ion's personal guard

, while also serving as an important friend. The exuberant Oracle Knight is often a foil to Ion's gentle nature, but the two have a strong bond regardless.

Ion trusts Anise enough to put his life in her hands

, bringing her along with him as his sole guardian during the journey. Anise expresses her frustration at Ion's tendency to get kidnapped and wander off, but her anger only serves to

show just how much she cares about his well being

. Anise is always ready to defend Ion in any situation.

Some characters speculate that there is some sort of young love between the two

, but regardless of the nature of their relationship

the two care deeply for each other

. It is eventually revealed that Ion is a replica of the original Ion, alive for only two years. He does not expect to anyone to see him as anything more than a mere replacement, but Anise assures him that he's not a replacement for anyone.

Later in the story, Anise starts acting strange. It is learned that she had been threatened by Mohs and forced to lead Ion to the Zaleho volcano to read the Score. It is there that Ion breathes his last.

While Anise is the one responsible for Ion's death, neither Ion nor the party blames her.

Ion clearly states this, and thanks Anise for all she had done for him. Anise truly regrets what happened, and firmly believes that she is the cause of Ion's death. But after making up with her friends, she decides to continue Ion's legacy no matter what.

So unless you can show somehow that Anise had some other beloved that would fit the description, it is pretty obvious who my character is. Also, Tammy was pretty freaking clear that she gave people TITLES not names.

[ProHawk]

Kaze, a much safer lynch is Minami.

[ProHawk]

was just curious about something and I found this. This fits perfectly with the Orc being the suicide bomber. This is the problem for me. The game mechanics fits perfectly with the ToTA mythology.

I dont get it. Whats the problem again?

[ProHawk]

Because we can't lose today if we lynch them, whereas if we are wrong about Mac, there is a possibility of a loss.

[ProHawk]

Please re-read this again.

But hey, you want to play devils-advocate? Fine. If they are town, today is not LYLO. Then a mis-lynch only puts us at even better odds at fishing out scum because their town-flip potentially clears Rufflig, which would literally slice the possible pool down to Me, Mac, and Fuzzy. 66% chance of hitting scum at random barring godfather (50% if you include Rufflig). Whereas our pool today of not completely cleared town - Me, Mac, Fuzzy, Rufflig, and Minami-No-Hana. Which could be 60% if there are three scum or 40% if there are two scum.

[ProHawk]

I think I would like to lynch Mac today.

[ProHawk]

I need to hear from Rufflig first, but I got a better feel from him yesterday.

[ProHawk]

Basically, do I think Fuzzy is scum over Rufflig?

I'm not sure at this point, but I am weighing the options.

[ProHawk]

Just don't do anything stupid. We are pretty much in LYLO and things are a little less clear than they were yesterday.

[ProHawk]

Nacho, the reason I had to re-eval my read on Ruff was because he was closing his options on me last game day whereas Fuzzy is leaving them open ^

[ProHawk]

I was also right about NO Hana being scum though I second guessed myself.

No. This is the only post that was even remotely close to you saying NO Hana was scum. Also, you NEVER voted them the entire game.

Town

Nacho
Mac
Kaze
Orcinus
--------------------------
Myko
Proawk

The reaction to the lynch and than the flip itself really makes me think that these two are town
-------------------------------------
Tammy
Pit

Ruff
No Hana

I am not going to sit back and say this was a good lynch but i feel there was good info that came out of it

Everything else was speculation and what-if's...

I dont think that both Ruff and No Hana are scum.

Two scum claiming an investigator role would be ridiculously dumb. If I had to speculate .. I would say that either one is scum and the other is town or both are town. I would gues the former than the latter.

Hmm if there were only two Scum than thats would be a good reason we would not be a LYLO....

The question is if No Hana is making fake claims and would a scum No Hana buss a scum Ruff

If No Hana is not fake claiming that means you and Ruff are the likely scum.

Thats the question...is No Hana fake claiming
I would like to use all five days and get a good lynch....No need to rush lynch....

@ PR0
There is always a slight possibility that scum Hana would town read scum Ruff.

Not saying that is what happening

but it is possible

lets ay there is sum in the neighborhood...who do you think it is....

No Hana- Not sure what to make of her claims. With the mod confirmed claims we have had it is possible that her statement is true. I am tempted to leave her for the day and try to find the other scum.

Okay

ProHawk
No Hana
Ruff

Mac
Nacho

two or three of these folks are scum.

I was under the impression you did not and we talked in the QT about pressuring you to give you more info on your role.... I can see your point about the lynch. Still dont you think if No Hana is a JOAT/ Cop/ JK that this could be a problem for the scum?

This is a reason why I think NO Hana could be fake claiming.... I am not sure though

Okay

Fuzzy- Town
Kaze- Town

Nacho- most likely town
Mac- Prob town but not sure

Ruff- no clue

No Hana- unsure

Pro Hawk- Not sure

wishing that NO Hana was here to explain.

@ Kaze
do you think that we could have two type of scum.

Mybe a Godfather or scum that might not read as Not God General if No Hana is telling the truth

, Also how likely do you think this is possible,

What do you think of a Ruff lynch??

or do you think we should keep going on the No- Hana wagon

NO HANA WHERE YOU

To me, Hana's absence in the face of imminent lynch would support the fact that they were scum. But to Fuzzy, they BEG Hana to get in here instead of coming to the logical conclusion. I get the feeling from Fuzzy's posts that they are light-defending Hana in this situation.

[ProHawk]

All i know there are 9 townies ..... 2 are absolutely cobfirmed as town. Kaze ( by Mod confirmed) and me by ( PM confirmed) That means that atleast 2 maybe 3 are lying there butts off. )

Scum you better NK kill me bc if you dont I promise that I will hunt you down and throw your sorry selves into the abyss......

This reads

extremely

fake to me.

[ProHawk]

Can you tell what significance the title given to you by Tammy has to your name and or PR ( if any) Thanks

This came well after....

According to what i read of the game mythos

Anise's Belove would be Ion

. This would make him town or maybe third party.

This clears Prohawk as being scum

and

It's his relationship with Mafia's character.

So... why would Fuzzy ask me a question he already knew the answer to? Not to mention is beginning to waffle on me despite having pretty strong conviction that my title and name essentially clear me from being scum.

[ProHawk]

Nacho, did Fuzzy say anywhere in your QT that they thought Minami was scum?

[ProHawk]

Third point, Fuzzy's experience here is pretty limited game-wise and yet he beats this drum that more than one scum in a neighborhood is taboo/couldn't possibly exist.

Why couldn't it? The definition of a neighborhood is alignment hidden, so by definition there could be any number of combinations scum-town.

[ProHawk]

Mac, this is why we lynch you: Today is most assuredly LYLO.

You made it a Fuzzy/Rufflig lynch.
Fuzzy made it a Fuzzy/Rufflig lynch.
Rufflig made it a Fuzzy/Rufflig lynch.

I don't think Fuzzy and Rufflig are scum-partners. That only leaves you. Safe scum-lynch is Mac.

[ProHawk]

YOU GAVE YOURSELF A FREAKING REASON.

In what world makes it very unlikely?

[ProHawk]

Let me walk this through with you.

How many scum are left?

[ProHawk]

If there is, its a pretty screwed up game in which a hider can hide behind scum and not die... I have never encountered a role that does it... it would go against the definition of a hider, at least on the wiki. Now if Pitoli went to her grave telling us she was a hider when in all reality, it was some alternate form not like a normal hider, I will hit her upside the head post-game. Not to mention if Nacho were scum with someone like Mac, the game would be over by now.

Right. So two scum left in a group of five. These two scum know who eachother are, they know the people they have to mis-lynch and kill, and they know Nacho is essentially confirmed town.

With two scum and three town (one of which has been given an innocent from a hider), all they have to do is mis-lynch to win. Therefore it would be logical that they push for the mis-lynch today and not go for a bus.

My PoE comes down to Rufflig, Mac, and You.

You are voting Rufflig.
Rufflig is voting you.
Mac comes in and says he would go for either Rufflig or Fuzzy (both being scum).

That is three people who are making this a Rufflig vs Fuzzy. (Remember what I said about a mis-lynch Scum-win?)

What are the chances that both Rufflig and Fuzzy are BOTH scum?

Very unlikely

in my opinion. Therefore that leaves only one other person to be scum and its Mac.

If you think I am scum, and you are honestly town Fuzzy, you need to get it figured out, but I think Nacho will see what I am seeing in a Mac-lynch and his buddy can just hammer him for cred.

[ProHawk]

I'm Mieu, Hider, most annoying character in the game.

Guess who I hid behind last night?

Why did you claim Hider during a massclaim when that wasn't your real role? What is your real role?

I'm actually a "Cowardly JOAT". I don't wish to disclose my other abilities.

I thought that if I claimed Hider, I could get scum to give up on targeting me long enough so I could use said other abilities.

Town has no reason to lie. Why do you keep doubting stuff that has pretty much been confirmed?

[ProHawk]

third parrty nieghbor who wins when all the scum has been elimanted.

Right...

[ProHawk]

I am good with a Mac lynch. Safest IMO.

VOTE: Mac

[ProHawk]

Also important to note that game would have been over if both Myself and Nacho were scum, myself and Mac, or Nacho and Mac.

All contingent on Fuzzy and Rufflig not being scum together.

[ProHawk]

Don't make my lynch you out of spite Fuzzy, I swear.

Nacho, can you PLEASE talk some sense into Fuzzy?

[ProHawk]

Hint: Fuzzy I WASN"T WRONG ABOUT PIT!!!! How much clearer do I need to spell it out than what I already have?

[ProHawk]

I haven't figured out the scum between you and Rufflig yet.

[ProHawk]

CAN I STRANGLE FUZZY PLEASE?!?!?

[ProHawk]

man town was so fucking great late on I can't believe we won

I had the scum-team nailed to the wall. I even made a wanted poster.

[ProHawk]

Yup, I liked your D3 play Ruff.

[ProHawk]

Alright Fuzzy, I am over it. But do you see what I meant about Pitoli now?

[ProHawk]

If someone flips town, you SHOULD be able to take their word for everything they said.

You are correct that the mod flip on them was Cowardly JOAT, however if you read the posts I quoted, Pitoli claimed that she hid behind Nacho. And later clarified that they were a JOAT, but didn't want to reveal the

other

ability. As town, she shouldn't have lied about it, and therefore confirmed Nacho as town.

[ProHawk]

Ruff, you DID scum-slip you role-copping fiend. I knew you shouldn't have known that my title was cause of a player.