Open 538: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hi Wake. Friends?

<3

Besides you, I know lucky, kbw, bo, BB, CD, and aptil.

VOTE: lucky

for being a conniving lying antagonistic troll bastard.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Such a thing exists?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If the mod fucked up how did you get a result

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sounds sketchy BB.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I can't wait to hear what Wake says.

Same.

In the meantime, Bo, my new friend, are you to be trusted?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why not? I liked you from the kisses game. I think if you're town, you could be very helpful to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's not about being good at mafia. I know that if we are the same alignment, I can talk through things with you without getting pissed off. That's you-specific.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hi Gam. Welcome to ms, where we don't usually have this much trouble posting.

What is your experience with mafia?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

^^^^ agreed 1000%. I want to know what he has to say to BB's claim.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Anorway said a Night 0 cop is possible.

@mod: Can you please confirm this publicly?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's just that the wiki doesn't say anything about a "Night 0" cop, this game has day start (so technically, no night 0 existed), and none of the other games that ran this setup had a Night 0 cop.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Mk.

What did you learn?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I got the same impression. His reaction was rather lukewarm. Not exactly scummy, and the fact that he apparently didn't even know who made the claim is interesting.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Regarding Bo's question, I think that's a really good point, but it seemed like Wake didn't know who was making the accusation, and then BB gave it up pretty quickly after that, before Wake posted again. I wish he hadn't, but there's not much to make of it, I think (in terms of figuring out Wake's alignment from his reaction). I'm inclined to believe he's probably town based on it but not as strongly as I believe BB is town.

p-edit: CD, I'll wait for you to finish reading the last page. I had comments but realized you probably hadn't.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I still really like my lucky vote. Plus his first and only post is lame.

Site outages be damned!

VOTE: mafiascum.net

Complete unwillingness to commit to voting anyone on the playerlist.

Lame lame lame.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It doesn't have to be serious. But the fact that he completely avoided choosing anyone on the playerlist even for RVS is suspicious.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wake, you clearly do not understand what I said at all, or why I'm voting him. It is not for WHAT he said. It doesn't matter what he said. If he'd posted without voting, or voted the mod, or some other such irrelevant nonsense that

completely avoided interacting with anyone on the playerlist in any way

, I would still be voting him. Get it?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok wake.

Do you have an alternative?

A better option?

Someone who did something scummier than that at this stage of the game?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

My reasoning is sound, whether you understand it or not.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if you want me to be alright with it,

You do know I don't give a shit if you're alright with my vote or not.... right? Because I'm alright with it, and since it's my vote, that's all that's necessary.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you can't tell the difference between true fluff and avoidance fluff, then I don't know what to tell you.

I'm arguing with you because you are engaging me about it. Would you prefer I ignore you? Anyone else is free to chime in.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The fact that instead of voting someone on the player list, thus directly interacting with someone in the game, like others of us here have already done, Lucky2u decided to vote

the site

. That's what makes me assume he's avoiding

interacting with the playerlist

. I did explain this. At this point, it's extremely obvious that you do not understand. It's not just a matter of disagreeing; you legitimately do not understand what I'm saying. It's either that or you are purposefully playing this game of "But why?"

At least try to read my posts with the intention of learning where I'm coming from, instead of just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. I feel like this entire conversation with you has been unproductive and not about actually answering any questions you had but just to feed your need to be combative. It's becoming a distraction.

And I don't really appreciate it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

finally caught up here. So there was a fake cop result gambit and ETL is voting me for a dumb reason. No body takes RVS seriously. It's a silly stage of the game and your voting me for doing it wrong? Allow me to correct that then.

Original Roll String: 1d13

1 13-Sided Dice: (13) = 13

VOTE: Aptil

Because the dice said so.

There, am I doing it right?

....


Are you fucking with me or are you really that bad?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*sigh*

You see why I voted you in the first place

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No my very first post. -.-

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It relevant cuz I wont be giving you such an easy pass for bs this time.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I usually vote the person I'm most familiar with in the game as a way of saying hello

Yeah and you didn't?

That's my point.

And really? My pushing of you for actual interaction is "either scum motivated or bad town motivated"? You cannot be serious.

Please explain how pressuring people to interact is "either scum motivated or bad town motivated".

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't think that's very fair, Lucky. We all learn from our experiences with other players. What I learned was not to underestimate you and to pay closer attention to what you are doing. Do you really expect me to ignore that and just not apply your meta elsewhere?

p-edit: Because

deviation from normal meta = something is up

. That's pretty standard analysis....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What your telling me is that you are now paranoid that I'm a good scum and could be scum even if I appear town.

Well obviously you don't look town to me, or I'd be voting elsewhere And I don't operate on paranoia. I'm not Wisdom.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also trying to figure out if gam is newbie scum .

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wow, lots of posts since I checked last time!

Yeah, I don't like this from you two. His first post wasn't serious, and was a playful poke at MS for its problems. I'd do the same. Your reason for voting him is nonexistent.having an unserious post isn't Scummy, and you know that, so what are you doing?

I agree with this, I assumed lucky's vote was just a joke and he'd eventually get around to something. However, lucky's next post completely disregards the whole BB gambiting Wake thing, and doesn't haven't any feelings about whether or not about if it's scummy or not. Lucky, do you have anything else to say about what happened then?

@Bo: something about this post really pings me. The waffly nature he took by agreeing with wake about me, asking lucky for input, but then voting him anyway is weird.

VOTE: gam

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ehhhhhhhh

I don't agree. People vote other people to pressure while questioning. I actually find his post pretty townie.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the motivation behind his comments. He agrees with Wake who has been clearly argumentative, in an attempt to appease him, and cast doubt on me and my reads. He asks Lucky for comments on BB's claim and results thereof, with the intention of seeming productive townie, and despite agreeing with Wake about Lucky, he puts him at L2.

It's one thing to apply pressure, but to do so after the fact is just bad scum trying to blend in.

Also the "wow lots of posts" comment is just unnecessary and fishy, like he's trying to give the impression he hasn't been active lurking.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*Reveals

Annihilator Beam

*

The fuck is this?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm just making jokes, Wake.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

By the way, Lucky's posts 126 and 127 make me feel better about him.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Whoa I get a special post.

EspeciallyTheLies

———✹

Who's your top Town and Scum reads?

BB as town. Gam as scum.

———✹

Say your gut is strongly telling you someone is Scum, but there was no logic or evidence behind it. Is anyone here that person so far?

Gut scum read with no evidence or logic... um... I haven't had one of those yet. I need a bit more from everyone.

———✹

What's your read on DBK, Lucky, and Aptil?

I like DBK so far. I feel he's going to be a bit more difficult for me to read, the same way ffery is hard to ready, because they are both such calm posters it's hard not to equate it with towniness on a gut level.

Lucky is leaning more town. I am waiting to see his reactions to other wagons besides his own. So far I like what he's done since getting the sillies out of his system.

Aptil, I don't know. I don't like her posts yet, but I've seen her style in other games. She tends to be lynch bait.

———✹

I just don't see the case on Lucky, and I'm not buddying him, either. You're basically voting for him because he made some fluffy posts instead of getting serious all up in this bitch. I usually make at least one unserious post within the first few pages, just for fun and, well, sometimes I have fun mid and late game, too.

I did it to sort him, and now he's mostly sorted for me. But I'm also no longer voting him (I'm voting gam).

———✹

Garmr, if memory serves, has at least one Scum game and a few Town games. However, I may be wrong.

Ok?

———✹

I sorta kinda see your point in #124, but I'm not sold on it yet. Anything else that makes you suspect them?

Nope. I explained it a bit further a couple posts ago, you may have missed.

———✹

What are all the points you have against Lucky and Garmantz for reference' sake, please.

I am not suspecting Lucky at this time. See my post 132 for the answer to this question.

———✹

This is my signature. My method of Scumhunting. I'm better able to play using this technique. Suffering from ADD, I can better gather my thoughts this way. You can check Mini 1516: Mafia in Space to see the inception and progression of my gameplay.

Ok.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Whoa I get a special post.

I have a special place in my heart for intelligent females.

EspeciallyTheLies

———✹

Who's your top Town and Scum reads?

BB as town. Gam as scum.

OK. Why?

You didn't ask that! I really liked BB's reaction test, despite the lame results. I am not discounting that scum may do it to, but in my opinion, reaction tests are dangerous for scum because it reveals a lot about a lot of people, depending on the result. I think BB would stay away from that as scum.

Gam I explained. He needs to post more. I don't have anything else on him at the moment other than what I noticed in his pre-vote post.

———✹

Say your gut is strongly telling you someone is Scum, but there was no logic or evidence behind it. Is anyone here that person so far?

Gut scum read with no evidence or logic... um... I haven't had one of those yet. I need a bit more from everyone.

Fair enough. With time I will ask you this again.

———✹

What's your read on DBK, Lucky, and Aptil?

I like DBK so far. I feel he's going to be a bit more difficult for me to read, the same way ffery is hard to ready, because they are both such calm posters it's hard not to equate it with towniness on a gut level.

Lucky is leaning more town. I am waiting to see his reactions to other wagons besides his own. So far I like what he's done since getting the sillies out of his system.

Aptil, I don't know. I don't like her posts yet, but I've seen her style in other games. She tends to be lynch bait.

Aptil's a he, and he regrets sounding like April.

Interesting on DBK. Do you consider me calm as well? Just curious. Does your gut say he's leaning a little Town or Scum?

(I have always thought Aptil was April because his avatar was April from TMNT... )

Gut tells me Bo is leaning town.

And right now I consider you calm which is not very similar to your town games, but I've never seen one of your scum games so I have you as "fucking weird, need to sort". It's also not the same kind of calm from Bo. There's a difference between logical calm and creepy forced calm.

What if people thought you and Lucky were Scumbuddies, and you two just did a distancing act? Crazy, right?

lol... not something I considered. It's one theory I suppose, though it's incorrect. This would mean you find both of us scummy independently, but I actually feel you think I'm scummy, and Lucky by association. That's a little weird to me.

Aptil's lynchbait because he's not very intimidating. "Oh my God, it's Aptil." "Oh my God, it's Bob." "Eddie." 'April." Whenever I read his name I think spring, flowers, and chocolate eggs. Aptil, put a zombie dragon in your avatar immediately.

———✹

I just don't see the case on Lucky, and I'm not buddying him, either. You're basically voting for him because he made some fluffy posts instead of getting serious all up in this bitch. I usually make at least one unserious post within the first few pages, just for fun and, well, sometimes I have fun mid and late game, too.

I did it to sort him, and now he's mostly sorted for me. But I'm also no longer voting him (I'm voting gam).

Uh huh. And what did you learn? Maybe you shifted towards Gam too quickly, considering your earlier show of tenacity? (PSST~It means I suspect you a little. Don't worry.)

I wanted to see his reaction to pressure. It took him a moment, but like I said, his post 126 and 127 make me lean more town on him. I don't understand what you mean, "shifted to Gam too quickly"? In whose opinion? If that is

your

opinion, then explain why. I obviously don't think so. Right now I'm not using my vote to lynch people, if you hadn't noticed.

———✹

Garmr, if memory serves, has at least one Scum game and a few Town games. However, I may be wrong.

Ok?

You gave me a bland muffin when I wanted a delicious cupcake. Don't do this. Ever. Clearly this segment pertained to your mention of Gam possible being Newb Scum.

You made a bland statement and did not ask me for anything. Am I supposed to read your mind? Come on now. That's not really fair, is it? To set someone up to fail and then chastise them for it when they do? If you want to know something, ask me what you want to know. Don't just throw out random statements and expect me to instantly know what you want.

The newbie scum comment came from the general feel of his posts and his join date.

Did you really need to me to actively explain that to you?

———✹

I sorta kinda see your point in #124, but I'm not sold on it yet. Anything else that makes you suspect them?

Nope. I explained it a bit further a couple posts ago, you may have missed.

...

Hm...

———✹

What are all the points you have against Lucky and Garmantz for reference' sake, please.

I am not suspecting Lucky at this time. See my post 132 for the answer to this question.

Out of curiosity, should your newfound target flip Town, how would you like your neck broken? Lengthwise or crosswise?

What the hell are you talking about? It would be nice if people would just apply some fucking pressure on him so I can see what happens.

———✹

This is my signature. My method of Scumhunting. I'm better able to play using this technique. Suffering from ADD, I can better gather my thoughts this way. You can check Mini 1516: Mafia in Space to see the inception and progression of my gameplay.

Ok.

I don't know why, but I sense a sort of apprehension from you. Maybe it's the chili I ate earlier.

It must be. Define apprehension and how you imagine I would manifest it via my posts. Then go find a common example from any of my other games to support this statement.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Bep Boop.

I've read the thread few times now, but I (still) need time to think. I don't have solid reads yet, but DBK, Wake, ETL and maybe BB are leaning town at the moment.

Rest are null, scummy or nothing.

Anyone can ask questions and whatnot.

VOTE: Kalimar

Let's see what happens.

Expand on that please. Who do you think is null, why? Who do you think is scummy? Why? And what is "nothing"?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL:
Null: Mr_Blonde, Smudger and aptil because almost nothing to read.
Scummy: Gam and Kalimar leaning scum (more or less) because I cannot see reasoning behind some of their votes except wagoning.
Nothing: KBW, simply no posts...

I didn't include either Cheery Dog or lucky, I'm not decided where to put them yet.

Ok so... your nulls are:

Blondie, Smudger, aptil, KBW, Cheery Dog, and Lucky.

"Nothing b/c no posts" = null
"I don't know where to put them" = null

So why the distinction instead of, perhaps, a tiered list?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Curious. What's the difference between null/nothing/and the unnamed category for me and cherry?

Hi Ninja.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm inclined to agree with that bit on BBMolla. You vote Lucky for fluff, and you vote Gamsimbre for lack of posting. How do you reconcile that with the fact that Gamsimbre has 10 posts, and Zebe, Mr. Blonde, Aptil, Cheery Dog, SMudger, and Kalimar all have less than 10 posts?

Is it more effective push in all directions at once or it more effective to push until something falls out? Does it look like I'm done with gam yet? Does it look like I appreciate you making my push on gam completely fucking worthless by discussing it? Where is the town motivation in what you are doing?

Wanna delve into why your gut tells you Bo is Town?

Sure. When you can explain why we wouldn't call it something else if it could be delved into. If I could explain my gut feelings on Bo, it would not be gut.

Also, me being weird and in need of sorting out? Well then. What exactly screams "weird"??

How about the fact that you seem completely unwilling to allow pressure votes to exist without nullifying them. Why is that? Or maybe that you are trying to insinuate that I'm somehow distancing from Lucky, when that is

literally impossible given my role/alignment.

You and Lucky could very well be Scum doing the distancing act. I do that a lot as Scum.

I think we've established that I am not you. But since you don't quite seem convinced that people act differently, let me direct you to Chaos Omega's Double Day unlimited. Anti and I were scum, and I continually called him my strongest town read, all the way to end game. I never wavered on that. Wanna know why? Because it fucking works.

Hm...

Hm indeed.

Where is your vote and why are you voting there?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why exactly is DBK and ETL voting Gamsimbre?

You are annoying me very quickly.

RTFT.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Right. That is what you are doing wake.

Zebe, I understand translation issues but it doesnt matter what you think null means or what rvs means. Look in the wiki.

Null is a definition of your

read on the person

, not how many posts they have. And RVS is "random voting stage" where people

vote randomly

until they have a better idea of who they think is scum. It is no longer RVS and you continuing to treat the game state as such is just avoiding making any actual commitments.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Fair enough, Zebe.

Tell me a bit more about your vote on Kalimar.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I find his easy town read of me unsettling. I think he's leaning town, but that is kind of weird.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think I need to look through some of your previous games Wake, because your posts here are so LAMIST-y.

I'll do that when I get home.

BB popped his head in here momentarily... are you still voting Lucky? What are you going to do with it now that you've assessed he may be town, "or at least not lynchworthy today"?

What do you like about gam?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wake, I think you are making a lot of busy noise to make it look like you are doing something but you are actually doing nothing.

VOTE: wake

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Town player direct their attention outward to other players, attempting to get information. Scum players direct their attention inward, attempting to get other players to townread them.

What you are doing, Wake, is asking people what they think of you. You arent actually seeking information. You arent doing anything with your vote.

What you ARE doing is spamming worthless inquiries about yourself and trying to force people to provide a hastened read on you. What you are doing is focusing on yourself and what people think of you, RATHER THAN ACTUALLY SCUM HUNTING.

I am very happy with my vote.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ftr - I'm done fuckin with wake.

When we move on from his narcissism, I'll be happy to come back here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think the point of ETL’s vote on Lucky was because he might’ve been afraid to seriously vote a player, and ETL had no other scum suspects.

ETL can confirm or not, but that’s what I think.

Yes. Exactly.

- Just so we’re clear,

I think the point of ETL’s vote on Gam was because of that one post Gam made, and that ETL wanted Gam to post more

to get a better read

, not because she suspected Gam for not posting.

ETL can confirm or not, but that's what I think.

Yes. Exactly.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Your buddying is blatant and very different from the lovers game.

VOTE: Bo

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I will look into it. But right now, it's creepy and unwarranted at this stage of the game. Especially the pleading in 232 and the "our votes" in 233. Based on your wiki, it looks like you have only been lynched as town 4 times in all the games you played in the last 3 years. Newbie 1403 you were not lynched for buddying. In Open 484, the guy with the magneton avi said you buddied him early game. Not in Micro 51 (wow... long time ago..)

Fine. I will keep it in mind. I need to read your games a bit more before I am settled with it one way or the other. But the gam wagon is stale and I don't like it anymore. (P-edit: Also I liked these posts of his for now.)

Didn't blondie say he was going to post tonight? That was like 13 hours ago.

VOTE: mr blonde

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I plan to lynch wake. No need to rush it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But if in the interim something more interesting happens, all the better.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Re: end of page before this quote came from: zeke's read list - It has given my a thought of him being scum with lucky and me thrown in on that list as town as a poor bussing excuse.

Her reasoning for voting Gam has no grounding, because over five people have posted less than he has.

Pardon me for unearthing inconsistencies. Gotta keep people honest and busy here.

It is only less from ask of us with the shear number of posts and /or content?

Can somebody translate?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think if more games is halting your ability to overperform, then you should replace out or tough it up and never expect to gain any sympathy for being in more games than you could handle.

Yep.

I'm currently in 8 games and modding 2. Oh and did I mention I work OT like a slave and keep a house too?

doesn't fuckin matter cuz I /inned for this game with every intention of playing it with my attention 100% in it. And I am. If it's too much for you and your games are suffering for it, allow someone else to take the slot who can give it the love and attention we all deserve.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wake, when you're done sucking your own dick, mind giving us the conclusion?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wow lol...

@mod: Please redact my last post. I wouldnt want to offend anyone who might misunderstand it as a personal attack.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I want you to stop trying to police my behavior when I am not attacking you personally. I am attacking your posts. Stop taking it personally.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Here it is with a little candy coating for you:

You spent a lot of time in that post explaining why your methods are awesome but you did not get to the point or share the end result of your analysis, the conclusion you have come to. That is really scummy and I am going to lynch your slot for it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Who do you think YOU are?? You think you deserve to be treated differently than I treat anyone else while playing a game of mafia??? Yet you are the only one to complain about how your feelings are hurt ....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It absolutely is you misunderstanding me and misreading my posts and taking things way too personally. It has nothing to do with you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That post was well over an hour ago. Try again.

VOTE: wake

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're hostile and emotional when people do to you what you do to others. We're both in this game, and I will not refrain from questioning you and your posts just because you're ETL, and I certainly won't tolerate any more of your bile when you thrash against me.

You are absolutely right I'm hostile and emotional when people question me.

But I don't go whining to the mod about it because it's part of the fucking game.

I called you narcissistic because that is exactly how your posts were sounding. You think I'm not going to fucking point it out??? I mean, come on. This is a game about analyzing more than just words. You have to analyze the attitude behind them.

Not to mention.....

um...

it's a game. I am asking you to please, please, please not take things I say in a game personally.

It is not personal.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You need to grow up Wake. We're not in school. Do you honestly believe I was saying you have some mental deficiency? Or do you, deep down, realize that I was using explosive language to prove a point about how self-centered your posts sounded?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wake I apologize if I offended you. It was not my intention to offend you personally.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL has a hissy fit as both alignments.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why does evryom seem to not kno what is a chainsaw.....


If you r sxum an. Uddy is geting attackex you attack the attackwrd

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Is call confbias.and no.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No h not. You ar wcumy. Nd unfotjnaly he is not.

[Invot]

Pedy ru fuckng kisnj g me????

Im no playon fight now. Im gojn to go play skyp magia.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:

wa attthe bar.phonepost iswors. i'm ntTHt waste.d willchkcthis later.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: cheerydog

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why I'm voting Cheery Dog, and why you should too.

Yeah I'm reading a post at a time. (as you can see with that above one)

Feel free to question whenever I post stuff

- I won't get to it until I've read everything else anyway

It does mean possible duplicate questions which may have already been answered.

Even though the mod has now confirmed the theory, the fact the setup doesn't actually contain such stuff leads me to still have my vote on dbk worth his reactions to bb's obvious (to anyone that has seen him play before) gambit.

The bolded is intended to give the "open townie" impression, but why would a bonafide townie need to make such an interjection? He wouldn't, and wouldn't necessarily think to. He'd just post his thoughts. But scum

would

have a reason to include this statement. Scum would want you to get that impression.

VOTE: Aptil

Because the dice said so.

There, am I doing it right?

You're doing it even more wrong.

He called out lucky for "serious posting" and then takes this obvious joke as serious? Quite the contradiction, Cheery.

^^^^THIS guy knows what's up.

Yep DBK is still scum.

Looks like you need to make a new friend since etl noticed your sheeping.

What gives you the scum read on DBK?

Well there's still his reaction to bb's gambit which caused me to cast my vote, then it's been staying there with the trying to get reactions out of people possibly going to join a wagon. - if people want to vote someone a wagon shouldn't effect anything - where I believe he was possibly looking for an easy lynch of gam on the grounds he is new to the game.

Also there's the etl buddying, which with the post I'm just quoted with him congratulating you on apparently knowing what was up (aka reading him as town like he'd like), it's liking for a potential town member to protect him.

The fact that his case isn't centered on Bo's buddying or his weirdo push on gam, but that he is trying to say Bo was legitimately trying to lynch gam, is fucking weird as hell. He's trying to actually convince people this is what Bo was doing (which I don't believe he was). The buddying and the push itself would be good reasons (if it were not for Bo's other posts that make me believe he's probably town), but Cheery knows that and doesn't use those. Instead he tries to force a false conclusion out of Bo's gam push - that Bo was actually trying to get gam lynched? That's quite a stretch and pretty bad. This is what prompted me to vote.

Lol no. Lynching Gam?

There was no way in hell I would've let a Gam lynch go through. There clearly wasn't enough evidence to actually convict him, and anyone that thought otherwise was ludicrous.

Preparing his lynch for a later day then.

This is ridiculous. When his first argument is blown out of the water, he comes up with another reason why his push on Bo is valid. Classic scum, switching up arguments despite evidence to the contrary.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wake is town. Zebe and aptil could possibly be scum, but not so sure on aptil.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Um... "could possibly" is not good enough on D1? gtfo.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Bo, I don't know. I'm voting Cheery because I think he's scum. Could Zebe be scum with Cheery? I could see that. Aptil? Less sure of that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Still wanna hear everyone's thoughts on a Zebe lynch before I consider switching to Cheery wagon.

^^^This...

is scummy as fuck. I don't know what to think of you. I'm pretty sure you're town but then you say shit like this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The case he's trying to pull against me is pretty scummy, but

he's barely given thoughts on other players

.

HELLO? ANYBODY HOME?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@mod: I am sick with plague. V/LA for a day or so. Be back Saturday.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

why cheery not dead yet...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

.....

did you like...

read the thread at all?

because i made a pretty big post about why i'm voting cheery.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@ETL - Why do you think Cherry is scum? You didn't explain anything with your vote.

this pretty much just tells me you didn't care to check my iso for any reasoning and are therefore just trying to throw suspicion and are not actually interested in the answer.

after cheery, you're next.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So instead of re-directing me to your post you get defensive?

correction. i got annoyed because you are putting in zero effort and asking me questions already answered. you are displaying a distinct lack of interest to scumhunt at all and that is a huge fucking scum tell.

Noted. What's the post number?

And to answer your question:

no, I didn't really read the thread up until the point when I started posting more.

I suggest you do that first.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

DP, you were a non-entity and Cheeryvoted you. What does that tell you?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

DL in less than 3 days and Zebe/Cheery splitting wagons.

I will vote wherever Wake, Lucky, and BB are voting so yall need to come to a consensus between Cheery or Zebe (I like both for scum). I've been sick as fuck for days but I'm better now and luckily have not a lot to catch up on because

literally like not much content the last 5 days

.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I've been distracted by marathon. I forgot why zebe is scum but I'm still good with cheery, why is this wagon not done yet?

ISO cheery I think there's some reason people think he's more likely town now? This is something I plan to do when I get home in a couple hours.

I'm good for either at the moment.

p-edit: why would the manner in which he replaced make a difference to my read on the slot given wake's behavior up to that point? He's replaced out of games site-wide over the last week or so. It is not alignment indicative in the least.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Recovering from horrible sickness, bored with the current conversation and kind of done with D1 tbh.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

^^Favorite band of all time. Yuss.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Are you serious phil...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How many games have you played where LAL was used by a town-aligned person to actually catch scum?

p-edit: stuff to read.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But my point stands. A potentially great scum play, no-one will suspect him after that.

No it's not. It's a horrible scum play. I'm not saying scum won't do it. I'm saying when you have all these possible options to choose as reasoning, you have gone to the one with the least amount of probability.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Your defense of him is noted neener neener thats what you sound like.

Yes i did misunderstand but he is a strong town read of mine so of course i will defend him.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

holy shit tammy agrees with me on something...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Omg can we please lynch cheery now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

N1 cop. Zebe is innocent.

Will be back shortly as I want to look at yesterdays wagons again.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

N1 cop. Zebe is innocent.

Will be back shortly as I want to look at yesterdays wagons again.

Why did you choose zebe?

Because he was under suspicion and I thought there was a good chance of there being multiple N1 cops. I'd originally sent in DocP for my own suspicions and then considered changing it to Bo because he was the top suspicion from yesterday but if there was another N1 cop I thought it would be better to target the second top for the possibility of double results.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

So from the wagons yesterday, with me zebe bo and cheery clear, and i gave wake/tammy a clear as well, two names stood out for me: smudger and lucky, though much weaker on lucky. I havent yet re-read with this in mind - just iso'd the mod. I'll do this in a little bit here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Tammy it makes sense to me and was part of why i chose zebe instead.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thats pretty interesting lucky. Now then. What will happen when I flip town? Oh thats right, you will hang.

I got my result and lived to share it. My job is done. So go on, Lucky. Tell me how scummy I am.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But if you wanna talk reactions... yours is about as bad as it gets.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thats a really nice backpedal Lucky.

I thought there was a good chance of another cop based on the description of the setup in the wiki. Lucky is suspicious because he is doing exactly what I expected from scum. I called him out for having suspicious votes on the wagons yesterday and in response, he tries to discredit me and my results, and follows it up with an OMGUS vote. Now, I'm fine with natural town suspicion. But Lucky didnt probe me about my reasoning (like Tammy did). He didnt ask me why I thought there could be another cop. He straight away tried to neutralize me. That's scummy as fuck.

VOTE: lucky2u

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And kalimar I'm talking about my PR. I'm a VT now with nothing to lose. So if Lucky really feels up to a 1v1 with me, I'm happy to oblige.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The scum motivation is the last line of my 756.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No boro. Conftowns are a threat to scum. Its much better to discredit the person and get off a mislynch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. Are you scum with lucky? Because I dont see townie skepticism here. I see you defending lucky and trying to push an unfounded theory about a horrible scum gambit with zebe. Did you bother to think about the benefit to scum doing that? Its nothing. 1 for 1 is not good for scum; it's good for town. So lynch me if you like. But when I die, lucky will go next. And then you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Then lynch me. I'm in too many games anyway.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Of course I can. I'm waiting for everyone to post today. Some haven't.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Tammy it makes sense to me and was part of why i chose zebe instead.

Why did Bo's kill make sense to you?

Because if I were scum, it's exactly the kill I'd make. He was under heavy suspicion yesterday, and one of the two leading wagons. Considering there are multiple cops, it's not as easy to pin down who to take out. Instead, it's easier to assume the cop would investigate the second leading wagon, and kill that person instead (if they are town), possibly removing a confirmed town for the next day and setting someone up for a mislynch when they claim an innocent on the dead person.

I'd be more suspicious about bo today had he survived.

Fwiw, I wanted to avoid explaining this until later, but with the number of conftown and almost conftown, we'd have to be really bad to lose this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am sure they did not expect me to investigate anyone other than bo which is why lucky's immediate attempt to neutralize me is so damn scummy. Boro is less so. He at least tried to ask questions. Smudger's votes yesterday were opportunistic as fuck but he has yet to appear.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am sure they did not expect me to investigate anyone other than bo which is why lucky's immediate attempt to neutralize me is so damn scummy. Boro is less so. He at least tried to ask questions. Smudger's votes yesterday were opportunistic as fuck but he has yet to appear.

I have been here, I was here yesterday and now today RL. you say my votes were opportunistic, ok, I was very convinced that DBK was scum, in fact my vote was there for most of yesterday. I then moved my vote to Zebe as doubt entered my mind regarding DBK, I say as much. I moved my vote to what appeared to be the other stronger wagon at that time, and it was to someone I found scummy and had again stated so. you will also see that the reason I moved it was because I was not around at DL.

I dont care what you said is the reason for vote hopping; I was looking at the timing and position on them.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I forgot what I was doing here. I think Smudger or Lucky are good bets for today and would be willing to lynch either.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think everyone has posted without another N1 claim.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

who zebe? why not? i already knew there was a possibility of multiple cops on the same night.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I never claimed to be conftown. I am going to evaluate scum activity from the point of view that makes sense for scum. The Bo kill makes sense to me,

because

it's what I'd do as scum. Somebody asked me why it made sense; I answered.

The real question is, why are you trying to "poke holes" in my claim, instead of questioning me about my reasoning, like others have been doing? That's the fucking point I have been making the people seem to be missing.

Your entire motivation is to "poke holes" (i.e. DISCREDIT) in my claim, whereas others motivation is to determine if it's true or not by asking questions about the choices I made. Scum want to "poke holes"; they don't care about the reasoning. Just like you don't care about the reasoning.

Lucky is scum, and needs to be lynched.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am just trying to poke holes

in someone's defense

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, you should be concerned that Smudger is agreeing with you.

Why? He spent half his post discrediting me and then saying he agrees and votes lucky. Thats not a town post and if he wants to help me lynch his partner idgaf.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ehwat didn't i post yesterday?

bah.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oops. Guess I didn't Sorry. I was sure I responded to some smudger's reply but it either must have been a dream or the post got eaten somehow.

Anyway, I like my vote and I'm not sure what else to add here. I gave my reasoning for it.

Oh yeah, I really liked fusion's post. I don't remember him being that awesome in Jacob's game. Either he's improving or something else is up. I'll have to go check that game again.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

fucking wake. *sigh*.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's not even right. IIRC, the violation occurred on Dec 6, before this game even started, and his slot has already been replaced. Stinky stinky poo.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The purpose of investigating a non-obvious target was to maximize the results. The non-existence of a second cop does not harm the results, but if there had been a second cop, the results would have been more beneficial to us instead of having us both investigate the same person OR both investigate a dead person. (Both the idea of a second cop as well as the possibility that DBK might die went into my decision, as I explained).

So for instance, if there was a second cop, DBK was a very likely target. By targeting Zebe instead, I left room for the possibility of 4 clears (essentially): me and Zebe, DBK, and the other cop. With wake/tammy, that's 5 town you can reasonably assume to be clear, and look in the other 6 people, significantly reducing the lynch pool of possible suspects.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

DP this is totally your scum posting. ....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Prod received. Will catch up and post responses tonight after work.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I could get on board with a DP lynch. I'd initially considered investigating him actually. Fusion asked about his scum posting. It's an attitude thing. As town it's obvious he's interested in catching scum. As scum he's more aggressive. His attitude here lines up with his scum game a lot.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. We shoulda lynched ABR a lot sooner. -.- God, that game. Hurts my heart still to think about it.

I'll sheep you on Kalimar today. I'm not really into mafia right this second. I just bought Torchlight 2 on Steam for like $4. That's what's happening.

VOTE: Kalimar

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Dont prod I'm here just busy at work.

Will make pretty post tonight but not much to say honestly.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: borophil

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Good. Its between smudger and borophil.

I suggest claims.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Oh i forgot about lucky. He's in the lynch pool too.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What about me?

Clearly I think Borophil is far scummier than you are right now. Besides, you have not aggravated me beyond sanity yet. You do that on purpose as scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Can we have claims please?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Weird wagon on Boro. surely we should follow ETL and Zebe are they not driving this game now? Zebe your thoughts?

Why is it weird? Why are you asking zebe and not the people on the wagon?

What are YOUR thoughts?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL - what's the argument for a massclaim?

We have enough possible confirmations to justify getting the missing pieces from other people. If you were town, I'd expect you to understand the motivation for this intrinsically and the fact that you dont is telling.

What I see you doing is stalling while you watch everyone else.

You claim. Now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Boro, that was a lot of AtF there. And unnecessary. If you are town, you know what we're dealing with here, and you know that we can afford at least one more mislynch. With the information we currently have, we are in a very strong position. The lynch pool is effectively {lucky, boro, smudger}. If you are town, you know this and you would know that a 1 for 1 trade is a lot better for town than it is for scum.

Instead of working out possible strategies with us, discussing actual reads/reasoning (instead of leaching Fusion's), you are throwing out appeals to emotion and fear. Your reactions to your wagon thus far are validating my scum read of you, which - btw - came from your day-opening post.

When I get home and compare my suspicions with known wagons from the last two days, what do you think I will find? You have certainly done nothing resembling analysis yet you chastise others for not analyzing you

enough

? Come on now. You seem to think I've never seen your town/scum game before. I'm not stupid, and neither are most of the people here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

UNVOTE:
for now. I just had an idea but I'm at work and can't track it down yet. Later.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Well there is only a set number of docs and cops so knowing who has what, we can use that to figure out where the liar is. We are ahead thanks to lynching Kalimar so I think a claim benefits us more than scum.

No. There's not. How do you get "set number of docs and cops" from the below?

Role list:
3 Mafia Goons
4-6 Night Specific Docs
4-6 Night Specific Cops


Mechanics:
Daystart
The Mod randomises how many Cops and Docs there are: 1/3rd chance of a 4/6, 5/5 or 6/4 split each.
The Mod then randomises a number from 1-5 for each town player. This is the one night that the players' role works on.
It's possible for there to be multiple players with the same power and night.
Mafia are told pregame exactly how many Cops and Docs exist in the setup, but not who and what nights they are.
Cops and Doctors flip only as "Town Cop" or "Town Doctor".

The reason I asked for claims is not the actual information outrightly given in the claim. It's the way the claim is given, the results claimed, the targets claimed, and the reasons stated for those.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Hardly. But that's a step in the right direction. Claims alone will not get us there.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There are 3 scum. 3. Which means 2 left.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Intent to hammer in 45 minutes

Any last words, Boro?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If there is any doubt about me, you need to lynch me today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If there is any doubt about me, you need to lynch me today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It is your entire treatment of the setup discussion that has re-affirmed my suspicions of you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you are town, Boro, you suck at this game.

I'm town, which means you're saying the scum are in Lucky and Aptil. 1) Lucky hasn't played his scum game here and 2) I believe Aptil's doc claim. Your PoE makes no sense and only serves to throw suspicion on players you feel would be easy to lynch.

PoE actually leaves you and smudger. I'm happy to lynch either.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not actually scum, boro. You seem to be confused with the difference between busy/lazy and "evasive".

If people would rather lynch me, I'd be just fine with that because apparently I'm terrible at this game, yeah? lol... So it would be better to lynch me now than in LYLO for a loss.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. If you are town and are lynched today, what will you say when I flip town tomorrow and we lose?

I do hope it's an apology but I'm sure that won't happen. Some people are too far up their own ass for such trifle things.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And furthermore, if I was scum and you were town, I would have hammered you into the ground a long time ago. I haven't manipulated anyone. I've given my thoughts as they came. You just don't like it. And I honestly do not care.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You think I'm the only fuel behind your lynch dude? Seriously?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I haven't hammered yet

because

I'm looking at other options.

Just because you don't see my process doesn't mean it's not happening.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Lucky he's accusing me of being opportunistic, evasive and stubborn. His reasoning for making these accusations is because I haven't answered his questions, voted him with reasons he doesn't understand, and not voted anyone else today. The point I'm making is that just because he doesn't get it doesn't mean he's right.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's not bluster. I didn't like your posts during the setup discussion. It's really that simple.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

They felt off. Like you were trying to direct the theories in your favor, or in a partner's favor.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I dont like blind speculation. I like working with facts. I believe aptil's claim because I choose to. Nothing about his play has pinged me. That doesnt mean I disregard possibilities where aptil is lying. It's that scenarios where aptil's claim is true make more sense given the facts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

smudger

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mebbe bb

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm still here and planning to finish playing this game, jsyk.

I dont think I like the boro wagon but I cant tell if my feelings have changed due to the AtE or something else. AtE isnt really a tell for either way but I cant tell if it was genuine or not. It seemed so but I do have doubts because of how I felt about boro before.

I need a reset. Zebe, you have my vote. Help.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Can someone list all the claims?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The only scenario in which Zebe is scum is if ETL is

This is... completely false. If I were scum, and claimed cop, what's stopping me from clearing a townie for cred? Your logic makes no sense here. I don't know if it's because you aren't actually thinking about what you're saying or because you simply can't when you roll scum. The logic here is, if Zebe were scum, I'd definitely be scum, because as town, would not get an innocent on him. Yet you take another road and say something that makes no sense.

Why is this not dead yet?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Borophil

I'm not scum.

If zebe is scum, I have to be scum. It's simple fucking logic that you failed to represent.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You seem to think I care.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What better way to leave the site than with my first ever mislynch?

*shrug*

[EspeciallyTheLies]

thanks

[EspeciallyTheLies]

looking back on this right now, i'm not sure i understand why the cops didn't cross investigate. if someone had investigated me night 2, it would clear all 3, and so on.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't know why you are so worked up, Boro. Shit happens.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. See you at end game, where I'll be quoting all your stupid posts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because right now I'm not mod confirmed town, but I will be in end game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're in for a real shocker then Boro. Have fun with that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If BB is scum he deserves the win. Otherwise, between lucky, aptil and smudger, with less confidence about lucky. I dont know if he deliberately changed or what but this just doesn't seem like his scum game. Of aptil/smudger, which claimed doc?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Aptil did I remember but I forgot smudger's claim.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Smudge, what's your case on Lucky?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Omg lucky seriously...

Thor I can get for you when I get back to my desk in a couple minutes here. I wanted to look over them myself as well. I was a shitty slacker yesterday and I feel bad about that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sorry i got pulled into a meeting and now I'm at lunch and mobile. Looks like you might be rereading anyway. Game isnt going anywhere in one hour so.. yeah.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Dont sheep me yet. I need to invest time on this. I was looking at {lucky, smudger, aptil}.

There were 7 doc claims or something like that and 6 cops. So there is def at least 1 scum in the docs.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

DoctorPepper - Doc
Zebe - Doc
BBmolla - Cop
EspeciallyTheLies - Cop
aptil - Doc
Lucky2u - Doc
BoroPhil - Doc
Me

Smudger

- Doc

(Added name in bold to quote) ^^ Here's the list I was looking for, with dead from Post 0:

Cheery Dog | Town Cop | Lynched Day 1
Does Bo Know | Town Cop | Killed Night 1

Kalimar | Mafia Goon | Lynched Day 2

Fusion | Town Cop | Killed Night 2
BoroPhil | Town Doctor | Lynched Day 3
Zebe | Town Doctor | Killed Night 3

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm looking at this list wondering why the fuck the numbers didn't make sense... I'd forgotten about Wake/Tammy - modkilled (Town Doc).

[EspeciallyTheLies]

fuck tenses. I'm going back to work now. I'll be back later.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. I guess I dont follow, smudger. Its lucky OR aptil despite there being 2 scum left? Honestly I hate PoE. PoE killed a game to death I played recently (bubbajack's Faith plus One).

Walk me through your constants that are leading you to the PoE conclusion, please.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Thor: you asked BB why he believes his own investigation? Or am I misunderstanding that?

Also, you were talking about boro being scum when boro already flipped town, so I'm a bit confused. What are your theories?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Cops

Night 1: ETL, investigated

Zebe

(innocent)
Night 2: BBmolla investigated DP/Thor (innocent)
Night 3: -- no investigation result claimed, likely one of the dead ones. (

Cheery, Bo, or Fusion

- N4 accounted for in one of the dead, possibly N5 as well)
Remaining: None.

Docs

Night 1: ? No claimed protection D2 (could be

Boro or Zebe

)
Night 2: Aptil protected ETL.
Night 3: ? No claimed protection D4. (Could be

Boro or Zebe

)
Night 4: ?
Night 5: Claimed by Lucky2u.
Remaining: DP/Thor, and smudger.

Lynch VCs:

EOD1:
[L-6] BBmolla: aptil
[L-6]

Zebe:

Smudger
[L-4]

Does Bo Know: Zebe,

DoctorPepper,

Cheery Dog

[L-0]

Cheery Dog:

EspeciallyTheLies, Mr_Blonde,

Lucky2u,

Kalimar,

BoroPhil, Does Bo Know,

BBmolla

EOD2:

-Wake88/Tammy Modkilled mid-day-

[L-5] Lucky2u: Smudger
[L-5] Smudger:

BoroPhil

[L-4] DoctorPepper:

Kalimar

, aptil
[L-0]

Kalimar:

DoctorPepper, BBmolla,

Fusion, EspeciallyTheLies, Zebe,

Lucky2u

EOD3:
[L-4] Lucky2u: Smudger
[L-4]

EspeciallyTheLies: BoroPhil

[L-0]

BoroPhil:

DoctorPepper,

Zebe,

aptil,

EspeciallyTheLies,

Lucky2u


Posting this here so I can look at it later.

I'm not interested in lynching BB ever. He's a solid town read, thus, so is Thor. Will explain in detail when I'm not mafiaing on the clock.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am assuming yes. But we have not had any ccs, right? You can move around the unknowns as much as you want. It doesnt change the analysis. Any way, why do you have a problem with it?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I just want to make sure you know that so you don't lynch someone because they claimed the same night number as another person.

Where did I ever indicate I was going to do this? Also why do you assume the responsibility of a lynch falls to me? Or rather, why are you giving me that responsibility and taking none of your own?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

K so explain your smudger vote. Is it just cuz he's voting you?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

@Thor and BB: Can you guys please give me your impressions of smudger and lucky? Anything standing out to you from D1/D2 or the wagons?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

-.- Thor. I didn't realize you weren't going to read

any

of it. Some of your comments gave me the idea that you were reading things. It's not like this is one of those 100-page games where scumETL convinces her partner to fake his gunsmith guilty on you.

@BB: My read on aptil is mostly gut, but based on the wagons, I see Lucky on all of them. Looking specifically at Kalimar's wagon, he's the only one there who isn't flipped and isn't you or Thor. I'm questioning my feelings on this one because I had really strong suspicions about him D1 and it was diffused, and his later play didn't line up with what I know of his scum game. Taking meta out of the equation completely points firmly at Lucky again. (And there's also the fact that Boro was all "smudger's the towniest SOB on the block" so I dunno.)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

this is dumb and i'm tired.

VOTE: aptil

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thorn.... lol.... what a great misnomer.

UNVOTE:

I really do not like smudger's 1230 like... AT ALL. Smudger/lucky was what I was looking at based on the analysis I'd done over the night, when I was still excited about this game. How I got there, I don't really remember. I'd have to dig up my notes and I probably wont do that. But anyway, I'd be voting him if they weren't cross voting like idiots.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because the nagging feeling he is town is stronger than my confidence in the mathematical possibility behind aptil being scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Thor - what I mean is that my gut is winning against numbers here regarding aptil. I also don't like how pushy smudger is being, as though he just really wants a lynch, yet he had to be convinced that his only two scum reads, by his own logic, must be the last two scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There's been a death in my family and I don't have time/attention for this right now. V/LA until Saturday. If this is too much, feel free to replace, but I will try to check in a few times at least this week.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Lucky moved from Cheery to DBK - so if he's scum then he...what, decided he didn't like being part of the uber scum push on the scum infested Cheery wagon? Meh, not really buying that, nor that the wagon was so heavily scum peopled. Doesn't quite add up.

This is kind of a huge revelation for me dude... it hits a strong chord for me.

Regarding BB: On D1, he claimed N0 cop with [some result - I don't remember], and it caused a bit of a spark and he gave it up quickly enough that no quicklynch occurred. I don't believe that BB would make this kind of gambit as scum (and why I say if he is scum, good show, he deserves it). Second, even though he wasn't very active, it hasn't been inconsistent. His level of activity has remained consistent throughout the game, so I think it's rather hard to believe he could be actively lurking, cuz when he did show up he wasn't just cheerleading, he was actually offering his own conclusions (imo). His posting yesterday and today has been pretty townie too, I think, especially regarding his own investigation and why he made that choice, and I think DP(you) was a good investigation to make. I had originally considered investigating DP myself. Paired with your wagon analysis above (and what I'd already done looking at the wagons from D1/D2, after my result on Zebe), smudger HAS to be scum. The only way DP is scum is if BB is scum, and all three cannot be scum, so that means Thor = definitely town. This, along with the above points on BB, means BB=town.

With your statement I quoted, I'm feeling pretty confident about aptil+smudger.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

2. I lynched Kalimar when I could have easily lynched DP instead

Apparently p-edit doesn't like me. This too, I forgot about that.

(Thanks by the way, for the condolences.)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The fact that no one has quickhammered for a win tells me smudger is scum. Thor definitely isnt scum, and certainly not scum with lucky, so it's not that both scum are already on the wagon. No reason for scum to drag out a game winning hammer in LYLO.

Intent to hammer on my next break ~1 pm EST.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL it's 4 to lynch

Also, it's not like Aptil has even been around to attempt a quickhammer even if you believed Smudger was at L-1.

Oh.

Well that messes up my theory.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

K well... gonna wait for the replacement. I'm hoping they will be able to clear up that slot for me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It seems to be a new site standard of approved town play

If smudger is town and lucky is scum, why are you assuming aptil is town with this statement? Who is Lucky's partner then?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't understand what you're asking and I am suspicious you don't either.

Thor, it's impolite to imply I'm stupid just because you don't get what I'm asking you.

(Thor is voting Smudger)

I know he is. I'm responding to the following post:

Well, it's always theoretically possible that Lucky is scum and Smudger is town - and, also, Zekrom, as his predecessor did, has opted to be generally anti-town thus far with his lurking.

It seems to be a new site standard of approved town play, if my other games are any indication.

First, you are discussing the possibility that smudger is town and lucky is scum. This leads me to believe that you don't believe smudger is partners with lucky. However, you follow this up by calling out zek for lurking,

and then refer to it as a bad TOWN habit

. So, I was asking why you are treating aptil/zek as town.

Except, isn't it also theoretically possible smudger is scum and lucky is town? But you don't talk about that. You mention smudger being town, and lucky being scum. So this makes me think you believe lucky is actually scummier than smudger - yet you are voting smudger. And going back to the first, if you don't think smudger and lucky are partners, then aptil/zek MUST be scum, except you obviously don't think so.

Would you mind clarifying your thought process/reads for me, please?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ugh. Okay. So I was getting all paranoid about BB/Thor. Trying to figure things out really, and thinking BB could still be scum with someone.. except I just ISO'd him for like the 3rd time and remembered why I don't think he is.

BB, somewhere around D2, it looked like you decided aptil was town and there was at least one scum among smudger/lucky - while boro and kalimar were still alive. Has your opinion of the aptil slot changed at all?

p-edit: Yes. And anyway my questioning of you is moot in this case. I was under the impression you felt aptil was more likely town than smudger or lucky.

ISOing aptil now...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ISO'd Kalimar instead because idea. Think I found something on why Fusion died. ISOing Fusion now.

Also, noticed Kalimar is fond of buddying. I'd look in his null/scum reads for his partners (interestingly enough, doesn't mention smudger slot AT ALL, throws suspicion on aptil, defends lucky). Everyone he agreed with and defended has flipped town.

BB or Thor feel like double checking for me to see if I missed something else in Kalimar's ISO?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

FUCK. I don't know. I hate this game right now. Nothing jumped out at me from Fusion's posts. I'm back to thinking maybe BB is scum with one of {smudger, aptil, lucky} in that order of strength. Except he could have easily helped lynch another townie instead of Kalimar. He was already being townread, I don't see a reason to bus a partner there, but some people do and I don't fucking know BB's meta.



Thor is most definitely town, regardless of BB. Building from there. Again.

Lucky where the fuck are you?

Zek where the fuck are you?

I'll be back later; this isn't easy enough to be fun right now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No?