Open 538: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Smudger]

Hi. Going to be quiet until Sunday as I am in my weekend. Will try to read the thread if I get the time before then, I have briefly skimmed the thread.

[Smudger]

OK I am on site right now and posting in other threads, but those are where I am up to date on the game so far. I need to read this thread from the beginning and will do that today and post today.

[Smudger]

ok have finished reading going to type it up, man there is a lot here....

[Smudger]

OK, theses are my notes on my thoughts as they appear as I read through. I have linked to the posts instead of direct quoting to try and keep the size down to a small wall, the one I am about to build. I will attempt to reference back where it is required

The Night 0 result and subsequent discussion, that has basically raged directly and indirectly through the thread is of course worth of comment. When I first saw it. I thought hey that’s great its got the discussion going but then I thought what if it had not, what if it had back fired? Seemed to have been a gamble that could have backfired, but did not. Does it make me suspicious? Not really based on what has appeared in thread since then , so right off the bat I will say BB is town.
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ETL your post 52 sorry but was does Mk stand for? Completely confuddled me.
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Gam 57 that was very captain obvious, why even post it, but then later events which I will cover seem to answer that, but not directly.
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62 BB, would agree with this in that it is not relevant to his alignment. But a question came to mind, Wake is not a Newbie and so his reaction could be controlled could it not?

67 BB, this at the time of reading is a true statement but It is a gamble all the same and DBK does cover this in his post 68 and again in 85 but then I want to tie this into later observations regarding DBK.
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75 and 76 are we serious here? It’s a joke…

this then goes on for some time from 80 onwards. The discussion surrounds this RVS vote by Lucky to here 95 can I ask why you are not voting for me? I mean, I have not made one vote not even an RVS vote. Not that RVS lasted that long.
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115 and 115 Gam - my notes say “he is defending himself from a rather pointless attack IMO. But one you initially agree on then turn it around in a heartbeat to a vote” at this point a vote was needed against you it was scummy IMO. However I see that I was not the only one 117 and 124. This also ties into my observation above on your post 57. You are not doing much at all are you?

231 does not help
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Lucky 126are you even reading the thread, the question here is pointless.
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DBK 130 in what way? Why do you find him town?
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139 to 142 nothing jumps out of me in this interchange but I see later it does for BB 251, I don’t get it BB you mention the concept of anti town 253, how is it ant- itown?

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Zebe 143 my notes say Eh? Meaning I initially did not see the reason for your vote or the way you describe your reads. However the use of the the words you use is covered later and you do explain your vote. You explain your votes again in 163 But I find it fairly weak, do you still hold this a reason for a vote? Although your statement in 151 is weird considering we did not stay in RVS that long. DBK picks this up in his post 152
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174 Wake at this point misses the reason for the vote, see my above.
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177 at the time of this post I am leaning towards town on you.
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At this point in my notes I have written this

DBK is Kissing up to ETL..? This begins to be so evident around 193 onwards And I am not the only one 208

Then this happens

228 and 230 get a room guys.. FFS


Oh hang on ETL warns him off…. 235

Oh dear what ever happened to 24 and 26

One of these two is scum…. IMO
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ETLs 203 makes sense but I still lean town on Wake.
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DBK 209 what? Are you saying that the use of too many words is indicative of being scum? if so then you really need to broaden your viewpoint
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DBK you are a little sheepish aren’t you?

VOTE: DBK

[Smudger]

lol OMGUS .. come to mind but there you are..

[Smudger]

Smudger: Why do you think Wake is town?

because his argument, when not centred on himself make sense to me. I agree with his stance on Lucky and the RVS vote I also agree that his reaction to the fake night 0 result was town, I will say that I am leaning that way, I am conscious of what I have already said. Wake is experienced and could actually have faked his reaction..

[Smudger]

Wake I get the impression you have not read the thread lately.

[Smudger]

Wake I answered your question regarding Bo 's love of all things ETL before you asked it. Bo how is my post classic town Smudger? How many of my town games have you seen or looked At?

[Smudger]

DBK I dont want to labor this too long but you really have not answered my question. You say "classic town Smudger" I ask how you would know, meaning I took from your statement you were basing your comment on previous knowledge of my games, your answer does not address that you say we played in one game as town together, ok I recall that, so from that one game you get "classic town Smudger"? ok then.
..................

Mr. Blonde your comment surrounding the DBK ETL buddying, in that when ETL calls him out he acknowledges it makes you feel better about him, I don't see why. Why would it make you feel better?

and then of course he, DBK, falls in love with you, ain't that sweet.

What I will say is that DBK is consistent with the " I am no good a mafia line" he has used it before to my knowledge on two occasions. as he has this line:

I wanna say about 70% of the times I'm called scum when I'm town, I'm accused of it because of buddying.

DBK do you think the two might the related? really is there a slight possibility? Nice cover though.

With so many AWOL its hard to get any real reads in this game. I currently read town on ETL and Wake. Why Wake? already said; take away the battle with ETL and DBK and he is actually contributing. Zebe and Mr Blonde are null right now with BB leaning town. If we are gong to lynch an inactive then any of the current candidates are good in my book, I think they need to POST! all of them.

I read DBK and Gam as scum.

BTW Classy recent posts ETL.... [/sarcasm]

BB and others there were some minor questions for you in my big post.

[Smudger]

Also, you'll notice me addressing his new-found infatuation in 395.

I did notice

And echo things I have been saying

Bo, seriously? I don't see anyone "echoing"what you are saying, unless of course that is an echo of your echo of them......

[Smudger]

BB and others there were some minor questions for you in my big post.

Point me to them

62 BB, would agree with this in that it is not relevant to his alignment. But a question came to mind, Wake is not a Newbie and so his reaction could be controlled could it not?

67 BB, this at the time of reading is a true statement but It is a gamble all the same and DBK does cover this in his post 68 and again in 85 but then I want to tie this into later observations regarding DBK.

although the second part is an observation not a question

[Smudger]

hmmm, Hypothetically how do you think you would react, as town that is.

[Smudger]

busy busy busy.

Since DBK has been spurned by ETL he has actually got down to saying his own thing. so ok, liking it more, but still not overly convinced

UNVOTE:

I want to hear what everyone thinks about Cheery because I can't tell whether he's scummy or is just dumb.

I really cant say, his posts have been challenging and the content is not overly questionable in my opinion, so I don't fully understand the reason for the wagon that is starting to form.

but I was curious that Zebe welcomes input form Kal but opts to ignore Aptil?

[Smudger]

Checking in but will not be fully active until 28th. Will try to catch up tomorrow though.

[Smudger]

Ohhh okay

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Cheery

Let's try this

you unvoted because of Aptil's reply to your 510

or because you prefer Cherry's wagon?

[Smudger]

BB, But April has not played here that much, you get a read
of town from his few posts?

[Smudger]

Fecking autocorrect... APTIL not April

[Smudger]

DBK I see you as a mental weather vane. it seems that you swing around to the direction any favourable wind might be blowing, you line up against people, but when they engage you in chat, be it of substance or not, you quickly revert around to that way of thinking, or so it seems. The thing is I don't know yet I that is DBK scum or DBK town. Right now I would describe you as slimy not scummy, don't take that the wrong way, well you can if you want to, but that is how you come across, slimy agreeable and not really bothered what day it is.

I have actually lost track of who is replacing who and who is out and who is in, will go check the OP. Wake's post 550 concerning who he may or may not lynch then his post 565 seem at loggerheads with each other, but then that was before he told us about his ear

Wake I honestly hope you get it cleared up

the "less active" do need to get with it, but then the time of year does not help much. As for a vote my gut is saying Zebe but my head is saying DBK or Lucky. Lucky more to do with the last 2 posts? really?

so I will do this,

VOTE: Lucky2

DP why are you defending him? so he does it a lot and it is not alignment indicative, uh ok, so no more voting people who throw votes around with out any sound reason.. ok thanks.. [/sarcasm]

[Smudger]

We're not lynching lucky today.

that is twice you said that, BB you obviously have something on him we don't. you say he is town, well?

[Smudger]

ok, the weather vane has changed direction.... again

VOTE: DBK

[Smudger]

He's more town than more than about 50% of the other players

Experience or just a hunch?

[Smudger]

I'm starting to feel worse about Lucky tbh

swing swing swing....

[Smudger]

yes, now....I think, but then again I am not too sure. no no no wait yes you are town, ummmmm no you are null, no now scum. hang on yes you are an SK, no no ummmm scum , no oh heck I don't know, let me think, what was the question?

why would I read you as town right now, you jump in and out of bed with so many lines of thought it would be no surprise to me if you have not contracted a NSTD related to Mafia games.....

[Smudger]

Phil I don't get why missing out making a comment on Aptil's 121 would be of note, but ok.

I do though find it strange that you would not comment on BB's current thoughts concerning Lucky, and that you have not highlighted both players in your summary?

[Smudger]

oh ok.. it did not stand out for me, had it I may have commented, but said what, "oh I don't like Aptil's 121".... fair point though.

[Smudger]

I'm starting to feel worse about Lucky tbh

swing swing swing....

How does this make him scum?

did you read what I have said about it prior to this....

[Smudger]

2C = second cop?

.

I'm starting to feel worse about Lucky tbh

swing swing swing....

How does this make him scum?

did you read what I have said about it prior to this....

I did. I'm wondering how any of that makes him scum.

as I said I don't know if it does or not, but it is not what I know of town DBK, however that is limited experience only. he seems to be disinterested. or at least that is how it is now coming across. I have had my suspicions all game, and on reflection they are weak and its not going to gather steam at this time so will.

UNVOTE:

but now we have a claim, (do we? ) what to do?

[Smudger]

Cherry? I have watched the wagon grow and see why it merits the votes,

If I am right, and I have never played this set up before basically Zebe claiming second Cop, if that is what he is doing, means we can't prove it until N2 if we need to that is, any CC?

are we saying that CD is the alternate we have 6 hours left?

[Smudger]

just read back, for some reason I thought the two wagons were Cherry and Zebe, did not realised DBKs wagon had got to L3 (last count)



what is the current count on CD is it L2?

[Smudger]

When did Zebe claim Cop?

2C

[Smudger]

its Chjerry yes sorry thought it was Zebe, Zebe has not claimed, got my dogs mixed up

[Smudger]

and Zebes' a cat sheeshh having a bad day recovering from the last two

[Smudger]

yes sorry have caught up now, and shall start again.

Cherry Claimed 2C not Zebe. CD is at L1, missed that post DBK

a no lynch, so you believe the claim BB?

[Smudger]

I have been hot and cold on DBK all day , but then as I said it is weak. You seem to be certain about CD, where as I have reservations in particular now we have a claim, Zebe is a stronger scum read for me TBH. Now Phil has taken over Gam's spot I have a better read as Gam was a scum read for me earlier. I think we should lynch but not CD, I would be more comfortable with Zebe.

why would you say 3 left, no one but scum knows how many are in the game, or is that a guess?

[Smudger]

I am not going to be here DL so

VOTE: Zebe

[Smudger]

I really want a freaking Zebe lynch instead.

this does not tie in with what you are now saying? as for the CD wagon I said I see what merits the votes, what has changed that is the claim. Zebe is and has remained a scum read for me. My other scum read was Gam but Phil's interaction has reversed that, for now.

[Smudger]

VOTE: Boro

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kalimar

BB I dont get this change in vote? what was your reason for the initial vote and what swayed you to change it?

[Smudger]

Was lost on who is scum, so I voted Boro. Then I realized Kalimar was a better vote after seeing whomever voted them.

ok walk me thorough that please, you are guided in where you vote because of who is voting who at the time?

[Smudger]

I am sure they did not expect me to investigate anyone other than bo which is why lucky's immediate attempt to neutralize me is so damn scummy. Boro is less so. He at least tried to ask questions. Smudger's votes yesterday were opportunistic as fuck but he has yet to appear.

I have been here, I was here yesterday and now today RL. you say my votes were opportunistic, ok, I was very convinced that DBK was scum, in fact my vote was there for most of yesterday. I then moved my vote to Zebe as doubt entered my mind regarding DBK, I say as much. I moved my vote to what appeared to be the other stronger wagon at that time, and it was to someone I found scummy and had again stated so. you will also see that the reason I moved it was because I was not around at DL.

[Smudger]

I did to understand your response, now you have explained it thanks

[Smudger]

that should read "did not understand"...

[Smudger]

ok then its there for you to see.

[Smudger]

ETL states she is not conftown, but then Lucky seems to think ETL made such a statement, which she actually did, but not directly 764 this sort of sets the thought that ETL does in fact regard herself as confirmed town.

ETL basically set up the 1 v 1 she is having with Lucky through her own invite for Lucky to do so 766 and Lucky went for it. I don't see what Lucky is doing as being of particular issue, what is wrong with looking for holes, or gaps in someones argument? nothing at all, ETL you asked for it and Lucky has obliged you. But then Lucky is not being consistent as ETL has pointed out.

BB you still have more to say or is that just it for now?


isn't this stating the obvious?

can sort of jive with the idea of scum not necessarily wanting to fakeclaim this early, but that's more a high risk-reward thing. the average scumplayer won't play to subvert expectations, so it makes sense heuristically that a fakeclaim would come later.

currently my thoughts are Lucky or DP are scum with a smudge of doubt on BB now.

VOTE: Lucky2

had my vote here yesterday going back here for the same reasons and for content today and what is a pointless argument with ETL.

where is Mr Blonde?

[Smudger]

ETL, you should be concerned that Smudger is agreeing with you.

Why? He spent half his post discrediting me and then saying he agrees and votes lucky. Thats not a town post and if he wants to help me lynch his partner idgaf.

I disagree with you and you know what I have pointed out in that post regarding your statements is in fact a truer representation of what was actually said. there are holes in what you have said, if you want to consider it discrediting you then fine, but bottom line it is a statement of fact and your dismissal of it is either arrogant or anti town, based on my read of you so far I think its arrogance, so by all means continue with that approach and point out where they are not.

I remain with the thought that Lucky is scum, he was a D2 vote four me and is now.

[Smudger]

What to say, agree on a lit of what Fusion has said, obviously though do not fully agree. I still feel Lucky is scum.

[Smudger]

I have already explained why I found Lucky scummy, both yesterday and today. Agreed to a lesser extent. Phil while I understand you feel there is a case against me you quote the simple fact that two people have called me scum you change your vote. Fair enough.

Lucky yes it's a lazy post why should I repeat myself?

[Smudger]

Going to be partially VLA today and tomorrow RL. I see the question Fusion and will answer it ASAP but right now time is short for me today.

[Smudger]

Smudger, what of my reads do you agree and disagree with? Is your scumread on Lucky based primarily on Lucky's 540 and 541 as you say in post 580? Can you explain what of those posts is scummy? I find them equally likely to come from town as scum. As for ETL's points, why do you feel Lucky is more likely to do a reaction test as scum than town?

Let m deal with Lucky question first. At the time Lucky was inactive and I say as much in my post 580. The only interaction from Lucky at that time were the 2 posts as highlighted. While I agree in isolation they could come from town just as much from scum, in context I found them scummy. To have not said anything of note and then come in with those two posts, it seemed to me to be treading water somewhat when you look at what was being discussed in the thread at that time. Also 529 in retrospect is also in keeping with the feel I got and maintained, why I missed mentioning that though I don't know. It could be argued that Lucky is more active now, but I keep going back to D1.

With regard to your reads:

I have to agree with your reads on Tammy and ETL. Tammy at first I was not so sure on, I had a town read on Wake but with doubts. However Tammy’s content and motivation are in my mind now firmly set in Town concrete. ETL also, ETL was a strong town read for me D1 and continues to be so.

I will admit that Zebe was a scum read for me all D1, thus the reason for my vote. Of course ETL has now stated that she has a innocent on him and, based on my read, I find it highly unlikely that ETL is bluffing, as sated she has done her job she is, in her words, it can be proved if there is doubt, which I doubt there is, not in my mind ATM.

DP, he has been pushing most of the main scum reads all game, I do ask him why he defends Lucky in D1 but his response is good, you in fact highlight that in your read on him. I agree with you that the DP wagon is off.


Aptils' input to begin with was limited and slow , It also seemed staged IMO, but it has picked up hIs imposts are probing and town motivated. Although I remain sceptical I think that Aptil is leaning Town for me right now.


Phil is leaning town IMO, his posts and interaction since he replaced in have been town motivated and his questioning I agree with. I get good vibes when reading the majority of his posts.

BB is null now, I was taken that he was probably Town due to his gambit, but that does not mean I fully believed it. I know that you have mentioned that in your reads but then since then I cant work him out, thus why I have asked him questions to clarify some of his statements.

I like your read on Kalimar TBH. I had to go back and read the ISO and well, yes.

[Smudger]

P EDIT

I had meant to mention that Tammy was mod Killed but omitted to include it, but as you did ask me to comment on your reads, I thought i should include her

[Smudger]

Because he is questioning people, why do you not see that he is asking questions?

[Smudger]

ok fair enough, and yes there is fluff there, but a lot of it is questioning and challenging, although Phil you might want to use question marks, they do help.

DP, do all questions need to be impressive?, how would you define the difference? why am I even asking this I don't know, but you did bring it up,

[Smudger]

s sated she has done her job she is, in her words, it can be proved if there is doubt, which I doubt there is, not in my mind ATM.

yuck sorry, that makes absolutely no sense.

what I am trying to say is if she is bluffing and it was in doubt, as she has intimated. it can be proved as she has done her job etc etc... 749

[Smudger]

sorry could not get into the site yesterday for some reason am catching up now.

[Smudger]

Ok, Lucky not scum scum, just scummy posting, liking him a lot better. As for the question about lazy posting, I was asked my opinion of the reads so I gave them as they stood. what was lazy was i did not qualify why I passed comment on Tammy even after the modkill had removed her.

I agree Kalimar is the Lynch today but he is L1 and we wait for his input before the hammer so will hold my vote for now, on the other wagon DP, nah still don't like it.

[Smudger]

Interesting stall....

[Smudger]

Who is hammering? I will if no one will. Back in 12 hours to hammer if its not done

[Smudger]

My claim is night 5 doctor.

With a mod kill is it even possible for us to get to night 5 now anyway?

no and yes now it is

VOTE: Lucky2u

[Smudger]

Weird wagon on Boro. surely we should follow ETL and Zebe are they not driving this game now? Zebe your thoughts?

[Smudger]

You aren't going to bully me. If you want to lynch town, go for it.

I don't see how declaring when I'm active and giving free information to scum is going to automatically help town.

If I me, Smudger, Zebe and DrP all declared N4 (for example) cop now, how would that help town ?

that could be a fishing trip had it appeared earlier in the game.

anyway did everyone miss DP being cleared by BB?

Lucky is scum btw.

[Smudger]

How do you know Aptil was a N2 Doc, ok he claimed but we lost a Doc to Modkill.

[Smudger]

would scumBB do a N0 gambit and then clear DP on D3 to look town? How plausible is that?

is there a counter claim, can there be?

[Smudger]

so DP counters Aptil?

[Smudger]

who was your target DP?

[Smudger]

can they? that was not how I understood the set up. you have one cop and one doc each night? or am I wrong?

[Smudger]

I was n2 doc.

shouldn't claim. you reduce the pool of active PRs that scum can kill.

however, you are probably prime target anyway along with Zebe

if he is claiming N2 doc an due was, then he is now VT. what are you talking about?

BB clears DP, DP claims N2 doc, the same claim as Aptil. is that not obvious to you?

[Smudger]

that should read " and he was, "

[Smudger]

I now have an issue with Smudger thinking its impossible for multiple PRs in one day.

I got Zebe.

ok as I said, I misread that and so stand corrected.

[Smudger]

what I am saying is presumably scum want to hit the remaining PRs

before DPs claim the people who hadn't claimed were DP, me, you and Lucky.

If DP doesn't claim then they might target him (particularly as he is almost certainly conftown thanks to Aptil)

Now he has, they might go for one of the others who could still use their PR.

got you, was having an "essex" moment

[Smudger]

I look at her overall play, rather than specific instances, early on I had a town feel for her. So while your theory is a possibility I don't particularly see it.

[Smudger]

The issue is this Lucky,

Mafia are told pregame exactly how many Cops and Docs exist in the setup, but not who and what nights they are.

and this is a reason I now think more so that you know that ratio

Well there is only a set number of docs and cops so knowing who has what, we can use that to figure out where the liar is. We are ahead thanks to lynching Kalimar so I think a claim benefits us more than scum.

[Smudger]

this is really interesting actually, especially as we have no dead docs.

we have one and is it three claims?

[Smudger]

Doc

[Smudger]

Yep I forgot wake. I think we currently have 4 docs, 5 cops and 1 scum.

I only see 4 cops? ETL, 2 dead and BB? did I miss someone?

[Smudger]

yes 3, forgot about Fusion.

[Smudger]

for now. I just had an idea but I'm at work and can't track it down yet. Later.

any news on this, Boro at L1 btw

[Smudger]

Anyone feel like making a table to show who claimed what and also include flips?

It's been done recently and backed up in the discussion, if you feel there is a need why don't you do it?

[Smudger]

Boro, you reaction to the current situation are somewhat concerning. It smacks of desperation and to be honest has me doubting you. However that desperation could actually be town. I don't agree on you thoughts regarding ETL. Your theory on the claim is possible, but I think she is town, and I have done for a long time. I do agree on your take on Aptil though why do we find his claim believable? Besides the claim and his reason what else has stood out? I am beginning to think that Lucky and Aptil are our remaining scum team.

[Smudger]

Still alive

DoctorPepper - Doc
Zebe - Doc
BBmolla - Cop
EspeciallyTheLies - Cop
aptil - Doc
Lucky2u - Doc
BoroPhil - Doc
Me - Doc

We can start a GP in someone's home town[/sarcasm]

[Smudger]

Lucky when you flip scum we go after Aptil or Boro.

[Smudger]

Then why hammer especially after saying you think he's town

Like wtf dude

ditto....

[Smudger]

ETL I am a Doc,

Lucky is still prime scum at this time, I believe Aptil is the buddy. BB obviously points out a possibility and I agree with ETL, if he is scum then credence for the play, effectively clearing the scum team to this point. No going to stick with my feelings on this,

VOTE: Lucky

[Smudger]

[system check] low...... game is slow [/system check]

[Smudger]

My case on Lucky for today is mainly PoE. Yesterday again PoE but not as strong ss today. . I am town a Doc .Scum is definitely with Lucky or April. I believe that most others due to claimed actions and no cc are more than likely town. Remote possibility lies with a BB Thor scum team, and as I said before hat off to BB., But right now its remote IMO

There were 5 cops not 6.

[Smudger]

To answer the PoE question. If all the claims are yo be believed the April and Lucky are scum. Sorry that was not clear, but that is what I meant. The second question concerning Thor and BB is BB claimed he hsx investigated DP/Thor. There was no counter claim. We have 5 dead cops so there is a possibility that BB and Thor are the scum team. Thus Brilliant okay by them eatlier, my feeling is its a remote possibility and thus April and Lucky are scum. Not either or but both of them.

[Smudger]

That is crap above and why you should not post when on a phone. Hopefully you can see what I was trying to say

[Smudger]

I will vote Aptil if that is the wagon today, he and Lucky are scum so it makes no odds.

[Smudger]

Seems strange you would say that about not talking about believing you BB, and mentioning ETL as town? You actually never answered the question really did you. As for Aptil, seems a good way to set me up with the random mentions, I never really paid it much attention but you are right.

[Smudger]

Thorns question about why people believe you...

[Smudger]

I will vote Aptil or Lucky, they are both scum, so which one is it?

[Smudger]

Kn answer to Thor 's question, I will, why dont you?

[Smudger]

To be clear I believe very strongly that BB is telling the truth, I have no reason not to believe it. This is based on general feeling through the game in regard to BB and the DP/Thor slot, mores so now Thor is in the game. Ok I agree his approach is somewhat straight forward and blunt but so? Don't get me wrong I am not disregarding the fact that BB and Thor may both be scum but I do not see it. With regard to the ETL, she remains a strong town read for me and again she has cleared Zebe, who we know was town, in fact her post about "now being a VT so my job is done" sort of sold it to me TBH.

ETL has asked why I am pushing for a quick lynch. I am not I am just saying it as I see it. I will lynch either Lucky or Aptil today, they should both flip scum as I see it. I know I am town I believe I have good reads on the rest of the players. Scum sit in the Doc pool, that leaves Lucky, Aptil and myself. obviously based on what I know and feel my PoE leaves you (lucky) and Aptil.

ETL you raise the question that my two scum reads must be the last two scum, yes I knew that and did not need that pointing out to me, I think you will see I did not explain myself properly, this has been a cast iron case in my mind for today and a strong suspicion yesterday, the Boro flip confirmed it for me.

[Smudger]

WTF, he is scum. If you don't want to take my word for it based on what I have said before, look at the ISO again. how many posts of content are there? how often does he sheep or agree with others in the game? His push on Boro was more a small lean with not much to it. Its been basically an active lurk from his post one to now.

VOTE: Aptil

[Smudger]

@Smudger - looking some stuff over, I think you're scum. Is there any real town evidence for you?

What do you mean by town evidence? All I can say right now is I am not confirmed town. I would like to believe my ISO may provide that to you all but that's up to how you read it. Yes I could be scum, but I know Aptil and Lucky are based on what I know.
Ok the reason you believe I am scum is clear and you cover the only possible alternative to the move of vote by Lucky, why is that not the case, it is highly likely to have been so from where I am sitting. In addition where is Town Aptil in all this?

If we are going to look at Votes and previous lynches then let's look at the Kalimar lynch. I was going to hammer Kalimar and gave intent. Lucky had done so before me, but time was counting down.

Who is hammering? I will if no one will. Back in 12 hours to hammer if its not done

But then Lucky Hammers:

VOTE: Kalimar

So who was going to bus who? Look at the lead up to that lynch.

[Smudger]

What I am saying is

Your VCA reasoning seems clear. You provide a thought as to why Lucky might have moved his vote, i.e. He did not feel comfortable as scum on a scum heavy wagon. But you dismiss that. My point is why could it not be the case as to me it is.

I also ask where "town Aptil" is in all this. In fact IIRC he has stayed away from most wagons. That does not seem particularly town to me.

The hammer shows what it shows, you should be suspicious of us both and, from my PoV, lucky is scum and bussed his buddy.

[Smudger]

This is interesting also

My town reads :
DBK
Wake
Smudger
Scum reads:
BB
Cherry

Where are Lucky and Kalimar?

[Smudger]

Where are ETL and DP? Yes people are missing but those 2, Lucky and Kalimar stick out now.

Not really I don't see why he bothered, and maybe it is clutching at straws on my part but it should be a consideration.

You need to point at the Kalimar Aptil thing as it did not ping with me. If it is as you say it is, ummm yes it could well be a scum v scum.

[Smudger]

I thought I had considered it and dismissed it already?

you had yes but why should others. anyway we can go around in circles and its not helpful at all. As far as I am concerned this is wrong and the lynch is either Aptil or Lucky.

[Smudger]

Eh, that's weak - you have a theory scum team and are using as proof of their scumminess that they aren't on his town or scum reads list, but he had multiple players not on that list, so it's just as good a tell to prove that those players are his scumbuddies.

most of those not on his list are either dead or basically cleared town in your mind and most minds including mine. My point was now when you look at that list who is not on it one confirmed scum and one unconfirmed regardless of the others who are not on it. but hey you think its weak, I dont. I feel its a subconscious action on his part to distance himself. This also ties into this theory of yours surrounding the Aptil Lucky Kalimar posts you speak of. Lucky makes a post about rolling a dice and voting Aptil, Aptil raises it as a concern calling him out and Kalimar berates him for it as Hypocracy. You do not see that as scum v scum v scum?

and you find this a town hissy fit..

Look man, if you want me to replace out i will. I am not scum here . It's just that i am working for 14-15 hrs a day , so can't login here . I have got up at 5.30 today to make that post .

Thor are you sure you are town?

[Smudger]

Well let me check...oh, wait, snap, I'm scum this game. How silly of me!

nice, but Ì think you understand what I mean.

[Smudger]

[Smudger]

So basically...yes - that one went nowhere. So I was right and my original snarky answer was acceptable and you didn't need me to take it serious?
I don't get why we did this.

neither do I we went around in circles. My basic point is if you were not confirmed town I found your posts scummy.... but hey

don't call me a smurf

he smurfs a lot, in fact he will edit posts and insert the word surf where it was not before.


why do I feel like we are all twirling our thumbs.

Hey new scum guy, Zekrom, anything to add?

oh and I know one thing you don't. I am definitely town.

Nope I beg to differ, you are scum

I should hope not, it's what I sound like.

really? you don't sound like a southern belle, another illusion shatters :-p

[Smudger]

Again there are other possibilities Thor

Scum could and would use WIFOM tactics to cover buddies. You agree that putting buddies in their null to scum pile is what generally happens. But then point out that Kalimar does not mention me. So what does he do, of the 3 unconfirmed left he only directly mentions Lucky in his read pile. He does not mention Aptil at all. Ok he attacks him as you point out in a desperate post, but that means nothing to me as again it could be a distancing tactic. Look at how many posts he makes overall and how active was he? Not much at all when you look at that ISO. I am town, a Doc

BB ETL and Thor, Lucky's push on Boro, what are your thoughts?

[Smudger]

Maybe push is the wrong word, it's more like nudge. Go read the ISO

[Smudger]

did I push boro? let me ISO myself. but of couorse since you already checked my iso... why not quote the push?

Over several posts you line him up for a lynch. You even say you town read him, yet you still vote him. In fact twice.

[Smudger]

Zek is active elsewhere, is he not Thor? Surprised you have not mentioned that.

[Smudger]

You are such a helpful person.

[Smudger]

You are scum, aren't you? I just really felt it right this moment. Up till now it was mostly PoE, bluster, and a bit of reaction fishing.

Nope as I said I am not but, it's up to confirmed town to decide that would be 3 of you. Lucky and Zek are your scum team not much more I can say until seem comes in and plays. Either way one of the 3 of us hNgs today, I sincerely hope it is not me or we are doomed.

[Smudger]

Seem should read Zek. Am posting on my phone

[Smudger]

OMFG

And he still lives.....

This game is a nightmare.

[Smudger]

No one ha asked me what night I was or am active on btw.

[Smudger]

ETL was it a good night out?

[Smudger]

I don't see where Thor thinks I am pro scum. But ok. I stand by what I am saying The scum team is Lucky/Zek. I don't see it with ETL in it and have not done so for a long time. Thors slot was cleared by BB who again is strong town in my mind. I will vote either Lucky or Zek today.

[Smudger]

Wow Zek amazing. Why do you dislike please explain

[Smudger]

You have suspicions? That's interesting, so besides Lucky who else could be scum and why?

[Smudger]

Oh Zek another question for you. Do you think it highly likely that ETL is an serial killer and Thor is a survivor?

[Smudger]

I have to come in here and say what more do you want me to do Thor, ETL, BB. There is absolutely nothing more I can say. I don't plead I just try to stick to the facts and let those who need to decide, decide. My only proof is what I know and what I have been saying since the later states of yesterday. Even if you line up mine and Lucky's ISO I agree there are good and bad things in equal measure from us both. You have to decide I fully realise that is an AtE but it's really all I have left.

[Smudger]

*Edit* States - should read stages.

[Smudger]

Thanks Thor

[Smudger]

Or just a Zek

[Smudger]

He never did answer my question about the SK and survivor....

[Smudger]

VOTE: Lucky

[Smudger]

BB why the question? It seems a little odd.

[Smudger]

Well you are asking her who will die tonight? I don't see the relevance, or am I missing something?

[Smudger]

here Lucky have a straw

[Smudger]

Is that vote ETL or a call for help? The latter I hope. BB is cont town IMO,.

ETL go with your head or gut, whichever is you best barometer, you and BB have to chose either me of Lucky, we really have exhausted this game and both of you need to decide who it will be. Is thatb AtE well no its not meant to be, I am trying to be objective about this.

[Smudger]

are we waiting for something? guys, like Lucky said, I just want to get this game over. so can you both, ETL and BB, make a decision please.

[Smudger]

Valentine was yesterday, sheesh how long does it take to "get it on "

[Smudger]

My silence and insta vote? What? BB should I just vote you or ETL then? That is ridiculous. Who am I going to vote other than Lucky? Why should I then repeat what I have been saying for so long?

As for rushing you, it's up to you how long you wish to take but to me the answer is very simple, it's Lucky and that is where the vote should be. So forgive my frustration as it is very simple to me.

You ask me to find new stuff that will confirm Lucky as scum. I am sure you and ETL like me have been trying to do that for a long time now. I have explained why I believe he is scum for a long time now and it is and remains a PoE. What else other than that points to Lucky as being scum? Similar to his post above all I can really find is circumstantial and TBH I can't find anything in Lucky's early play which is a tell, can either of you?

BB that list of Aptils I have already covered as possibly being circumstantial to show avoidance by Aptil of Lucky.

this Lynch bait claim of Luckys keeps popping up. He used it earlier when he claimed and now again. That sort of sticks out as not right. I will be completely subjective and say it smacks of cheap WIFOM, What more can I say?

Not much else, you guys need to decide

As for Lucky's post above, excuse me but Ditto, the same applies to you does it not?

[Smudger]

Guys I am getting prodded because I am not posting. I am not posting because I have nothing more to add. ETL and BB, can you please please get together and decide this game for us all? Because honestly I cannot see the point in dragging it out and it would appear that Lucky feels the same.

ETL I understand that you want time to decide but really you want to wait nine days?

[Smudger]

ETL you said give me a day over a day ago.... This has dragged out and is getting us all pretty frustrated, you post implies as much regardless of the fact you said give me a day. Don't end this on a sour note. Please take your time ok?

[Smudger]

Wow, I thought I was done for on so many occasions. But I suppose perseverance paid off. Lucky I actually felt bad that ETL voted for you in the way she did, those sentiments in my posted reply are actually real. ETL it's a game you played very well don't get down about it.

Thor well subbed in you were a threat to me you had to die.,.

Anoray many thanks for modding it was a fun game

[Smudger]

No hard feelings. Honestly I was surprised I didn't die the day before, scum did well.

none taken Lucky, it was a good game...