Touhou: Mafia in the Land of Fantasy (Game Over)

[Messiah Complex]

I'm heading out to work a 10-10 and Fish is doing the same IIRC; content from us later.

Morph and Lush--we're town. Are you guys town?

Because if you're town, and we can sort that out quickly, the scum are borked (hahagetit). So let's not dilly-dally, yeah?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

BLA BLA BLA

i'm catching up today. see you soon

Hey so are we!

Wanna schedule a date to chat? I'll be here around 7pm EST

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I fucking hate my new boss, what should have been an 8 hour day turned into a 12 hour one, which I went straight home to a pissy fiancé and 4 month old that refused to be put down.

Desp and I did have a chance to talk briefly last night though. We are breaking the thread down into easier to handle blocks because Jesus fuck 29 pages...

I am going first and will try to have observations and analysis from the first 10 pages. Anything I should know going into this?

Oh, and just to avoid confusion, I generally don't sign my posts, while Desp does. I figure that you'd have to be functionally retarded to confuse us.

My apologies to all you functional retards in this thread.

[Messiah Complex]

And here we are going for the play by play of pages 1-11. I am going to try and do this in the most logical way possible, but it probably won’t turn out that way to anyone else.

First things first, I am familiar with SXTLH, Cabd head, Lush Life in its separate parts, zMuffin and Action Dan. Familiar meaning that I have played with them at least once. The rest of this group are new to me.

First RVS vote was in #11 with Gaiden selfvoting, which I hate as much as anything, not indicative of anything just personally don’t like it. Kaze also votes Gaiden, calling it a serious vote? Is it a serious vote, do you find self voting in RVS to be scummy? I think that there is a time where self voting is scum motivated, like when being pressured and “cracking” but RVS is nothing.

There is a lot of fluff about drinking, nothing that would be evidence either way.

Lots of meta talking as well. I don’t mind using meta to help form reads but I think that people on this site put too much stock in meta sometimes. Desperado and I just got done playing a game, Song of Ice & Fire, where the Alfred Borden hydra of Empire and Llmarble used their known meta to appear to be town to Tammy, Tierce and Nacho to the point where they rode that first 2 day town read to the end and won the game as scum. Even in the face of evidence and compelling arguments from a scum member attempting to bus AB continued to be town read. Good players are able to use their meta against town to put off suspicions.

It seems like people got a little bogged down in Kaze saying that he already read the games that Gaiden provided for scum meta. He points out that the only posts he was interested in were the opening ones to see if scumGaiden opens up the same way as Gaiden does in this game. I do not see what the issue people are having with this line of thought. How long would it take you guys to read the first 3 posts of 3-4 games that could easily be looked up?

UFO gets a lot of attention from a few people. I wish you guys had cared that much about me when I first came onsite. Did you guys get what you wanted out of UFO? Looks like I get my answer a few posts later. Cabd, what exactly are you looking for when diving into his past games?

I agree with pieguyn in post #111 in response to Kaze saying that there is stuff to talk about in the game so far. I don’t see it either. What was serious in the first 4-5 pages of this game? He claims that his clearing of Gaiden should be something to talk about, but he would only point to the meta diving he did of his scum games to show where his read came from. Kaze talks about pie being stuck in RVS, I didn’t realize that we were out of RVS at this point in the game.

Lush Life is weak reading Kaze as scum, why?

Not a fan of Remmy talking about how his “town role pm” failed to cheer him up. As town I don’t think I have ever talked about myself receiving a town role pm. Maybe that’s just me though. And I am with morph his questions sucked dick.

zMuffin comes out of nowhere voting, then throwing down 2 town reads. Want to give a basis for any of those reads? We played together in the fruit bowl game correct? I remember not liking you much after that game, are you going to be playing the same way?

^5 Townblock of Morph/Lush/MC, I feel like we could all hang out at a bar or coffee shop and have a sitcom taped of our lives and we would be funny and interesting and have all the sex. I think we will support either of these slot in most things they attempt to do. If I had any doubts about morph their interactions with Kise would have removed them.

@Kise

- are you trying to slander my cat friend foor any particular reason or just feel like nitpicking? I was kind of intimidated looking at the player activity and seeing morph and lush at 150+ posts, knowing most will be fluff, but there are hints of genius mixed amongst them, all you have to do is look and you will find them.

What is a Rule 12 infraction, and does that have anything to do with your pie vote Kagami?

Bubba, did you just RVS vote during your read through on page 1, when the rest of the game was on page 8? What the fuck are you doing? What would have happened if a flash wagon was going on Kase at the time you did that and you hammered without even knowing it?

Yukari I think I love you a little for taking the time to find pictures of Spanish Needles and including it with a VC.

Tsukasa I don’t like the fact that you mudsling Remmys way (not that I have a town read or anything) citing his meta and then when pressured to produce evidence of stated meta you backpeddle. Then you say “why don’t we just wait for him to come in and we can watch him play?” If you have something to say back the statement up with whatever facts you have, let the group decide its relevance.

Ok, that is all I can do in one sitting for the moment.

So far I am liking Gaiden, the slot that used to house morph (didn’t realize until now that they’d been replaced), lush, and kaze has come around for me. Those are in no particular order.

Not liking- Bubba, Kisa, Tsukasa, muffinman, and the slot that used to house Remmy. Also in no particular order.

Null on everyone else.

Desperado should be coming in at some point to go over the next 10 or so pages.

[Messiah Complex]

So far I am liking Gaiden, the slot that used to house morph (didn’t realize until now that they’d been replaced), lush, and kaze has come around for me. Those are in no particular order.

Not liking- Bubba, Kisa, Tsukasa, muffinman, and the slot that used to house Remmy. Also in no particular order.

Null on everyone else.

Using this as a starting point:

Kaze's #250 and Kise's morph pushesin the 250s are both really out of step.

Morph's description of their playstyle is really open and honest and not something I generally see from scum (with some exceptions that don't really apply here)

Muffin's #270 is how I would expect town to question someone who is getting townread too easily. He builds on it throughout p12--Muffin and Morph both look town in this exchange.

Bubba's #291 is not good, and no Cabd, he did not townslip by not knowing Jaq was mod confirmed. The whole wall is Bubba throwing potshots at random targets, but there's no zeal to it--like a fat cat swatting aimlessly at flies. It's scummy.

RED FLAG. I have no idea where this aggression came from morph.

Town points to Kaze

Another boring wall from bubba

Lush Life is 100% town at this point. Morph townread disintegrated.

My thoughts exactly. This whole stunt reeks of scum gambit to me.

Pieguy knows how to make walls that actually accomplish things.

I don't/Ew

Kaze's 374 starts good but ends poorly. Questioning townreads on yourself is natural, but pieguy clearly stated that he took your contradictory logic (and your accompanying gung-ho attitude) as towntells. The bottom paragraph makes it seem like you only read half of his post and thought you could get some mileage out of calling him out for bad logic/poor reads.

What do you mean you're not "feeling it?" Pie opened up to you and you just swatted him away.

Don't worry, we're coming

Sure:

Town
Scum

This p17 VC is fucking sad. 40% of the game not voting and the only thing vaguely resembling a wagon is on the wrong person and is 50% scummy. Probably a combination of a good scum mist and a cautious town.

Whoops. Madden 25 is fucking awesome though!

Kise's 407 makes me feel better about him, but Kagami sheeping him on it makes me feel worse about both of them considering the Pieguy wagon.

Varsoon you cheeky bastard. Why are you OMGUSing an RVS vote on p17?

Nooooooooo. I don't want to have to tunnel you again Varsoon. Please.

Where are your teeth at Bubba? I can't wait to tighten the noose around your neck.

I'm voting bubba at the end of this post and don't care about any potential consequences

This is how scum probes their buddy's wagon

Mac's entrance and his post scream town. Sorry I missed our date

I prefer the Salsa

I love this vote and I especially love the timing because competing scum wagons are the best competing wagons.

The rest of page 20 was boring and I want to play another game of Madden before going to work so I'm stopping here for now. Updated reads:

Town

Gaiden
Lush
Muffin
Mac
Pieguy
Jaqar

Null

Amaranth
Yuni
Tsukasa
UFO
Dramonic
ActionDan
Katarina

Null/Scum

Kaze
Varsoon
Remembrence

Scum

morph
Kagami
Kise
bubba

Vote: bubbajack

Vote: bubbajack

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Mollie, you should probably rethink whatever you think you know. You failed to scum read us in Fire and Ice and I think you are overreacting to compensate for that. For myself I have had a hard time keeping up with this thread because it is already 58 pages deep and I get somewhat lost in larger game like this, especially when I have worked over 90 hours in the last week. Look at my finished games. Small ones I start out firing, while in larger ones it takes me a bit to get going.

We have been giving our reads as we go, so you can even see the evolution of those reads. I realize that giving reads 20 pages after the fact may seem pointless, but this is how we work. At least in this game.

If you want to dance, lets dance. If you have already made up your mind then do what you do.

[Messiah Complex]

I am active now because this is the first day I've had off in a week. I am catching up on a lot of shit right now. You can call it what you want but I am currently trying to get fully caught up in the thread so at least one of us can say we aren't playing catch up. I am at post #604 right now and smack dab in the middle of the Lush/Cabd/Jaqen discussion. I checked the most current page to see where all the votes were at and skimmed that page, saw our name as a vote from you and was a little shocked.

[Messiah Complex]

You realize that Desp signs his posts while FF does not. I am Formerfish, and unless you are stalking me you don't know what you are talking about.

[Messiah Complex]

Guess you don't want to dance Mollie? Were you hoping that we would be an easier target?

Bubba, Mollie barely knows me and I doubt her ability to read me. I used a game we recently had together as an example.

[Messiah Complex]

Jesus, so what happens when we do flip town? Mollie you falling on a sword for that, or is the same thing that happens anytime a mislynch occurs, people move on to the next candidate?

[Messiah Complex]

Jesus, so what happens when we do flip town? Mollie you falling on a sword for that, or is the same thing that happens anytime a mislynch occurs, people move on to the next candidate?

well I will look at the incredible effort you put into your posts. and the timing and wonder they had to be beetlejuiced.

and what that says about your partners!

You are tilting at windmills here and if you are town you are destroying what could have been a beautiful relationship in this game. If you are scum then by all means continue down this path and you will surely help town win after our untimely death.

[Messiah Complex]

I am starting to feel like most of you see Messiah Complex as an alt for Desp. I don't want it to seem like I am pulling a Jan Brady here, but it's a hydra. One that I am part of as well. Hi guys, I'm Formerfish. I'm a gemini, have a new baby, got engaged in July, love comic books, and I play fucking mafia. I haven't been onsite for long but have played a good number of games in the time I have been here.

tl:dr- this is a hydra of Desperado and Formerfish. Please keep that in mind.

Also, still waiting for you to pick me up off your dance card Mollie. Unless you were being disingenuous about wanting to solidfy/sort your read on us.

[Messiah Complex]

Shouting doesn't exactly cover it. We, mostly me actually, were a bit over the top. but we thought we had scum based on slips that certain people made. And we sure as shit put up walls when they were needed.

Were you part of Jessica by chance?

[Messiah Complex]

Or screw up a claim. That was a pretty heavy hit to your cred that game as well. That is neither here nor there though. That game was a lot smaller than this one, and I already addressed the difference in my play in that case. I have a hard time keeping up with a game that has this type of volume. I have a new baby, a demanding job time wise, and a fiance that gives me shit anytime I pull up this site because I should be doing something to help out with the baby or the house.

How much am I able to talk about my specific site activity? I don't want to break the rule about ongoing game talk, but I want to say something ab out my activity. What is kosher?

[Messiah Complex]

So I can mention my activity in other games, as long as I keep it very broad.

[Messiah Complex]

I still think that Bubba is a good pick for scum, I'm not sure how much I like his bomb claim.

GCBC- not sure how to feel about this anymore. Was reading it as scum, felt the replace was scummy, but they have been towning it up since then.

Gaiden- seems to be in the same boat as us, I'm at post #963 and he is trying for a reread and not posting much.

Dramonic- is posting but I can't think of a single significant thing they have said

UFO disappeared for the longest time, does he ever come back?

Lush- I have much love for all your heads, but the sudden hate towards us, and having to thread through all of your inhydra bickering is muddying the waters. I keep getting confused about your reads because one of you is staunchly in favor of voting certain people and then a few posts later another of you are defending those same people.

Leaning scum on Kise- gut
Actiondan can hang, I was annoyed with his play style in ASOFAI, but its just a personal preference.

I am still trying to get through a little less than half the thread.

[Messiah Complex]

...I literally have no idea what to say that our innocent child thinks that this slot and mollie's hydra are scum together, more or less scum by ourselves.

Like you think that the five pages of absolute fighting, ffery's replace out, and all the drama was all fucking FAKED?

We had trouble finding what caused the huge blow up when we were doing our read through. Ffery's replace out seemed fake as fuck to us since we couldn't pin down what had set her off to the point where she felt she needed to replace. Whenever someone had tried previously to engage you on this subject you responded with a bit of anger yourself saying that we would not be talking about the situation.

Are you at a point where you feel up to talking. Pull up a stool partner, you got my ear if you need it.

[Messiah Complex]

Ok, let me play devils advocate here for a few minutes. You up for that?

[Messiah Complex]

I have no expectations.

How is FFery's scum game? If Mollie had pegged her/you correctly on d1 would she have had the stamina to keep up scumtell avoidance? Is Mollie usually able to read Ffery correctly? You already said that she is one of the best at reading you, so could it have been Fferys job to town it up to keep Mollie off her game?

Flip side, what are the chances that Mollie knew what would happen if she started to tinnel the fuck out of you guys? Would she know that Ffery would have a meltdown, in or out of thread? Could said breakdown have painted your slot in a particular light, and could have been the intended result?

[Messiah Complex]

Vote: Messiah

bcuz I luv mollie.

dearest, what did you make of their catchup post? fake? using quote links to hide what points they're making?

How the fuck is a link directly to the post that I'm referring to "hiding the point that I'm making?"

If you guys don't want us to read the whole game you can just say so.

@ mollie: I'm posting elsewhere but not here because I didn't want to post anything without having fully caught up. Your scumread fucking BLOWS and you should be ashamed of yourself.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Lynch this, or kill it with fire, or shove it down a garbage disposal with some ice and lemon and turn that shit on, or tie them down and hit them with bars of soap wrapped in knee length socks. Any way you choose, know that scum lies here.

Spoiler:

I don't care how far we got pushed in RVS. If there was a five-post speedlynch then if town doesn't insta-lynch the hammerer day 2 then town in this game has some problems.

You've voted twice and both have been second votes on top of an existing vote, that's accurate, right?

There was a sense of humour in your RVS vote which I liked, a sense of 'dark impending things' in your vote on DOMO, and I don't quite grok (hi Beli) this most recent post which *still* seems to be promoting a lynch as soon as possible.

I'll wait out the day asking every question I feel is relevant to get reads, communicate my preferences for lynch and the reasons, and ask for feedback. I'll be around 24 hours before deadline. At least for a window of a few hours.

Why do you want a lynch to happen right now?
If you're town, do you have any inclination to reason on this?
I mean, running someone up is not a thing in this game.

@Kaze

- Do you read that gambit as a scum gambit, or are you just reacting to the fact that he chose you for his focus?

I really hate day vig shoot gambits mebbe cos I have fallen for them twice.

right now I am trying to figure out if the scumteam decided to come up with the most improbable safeclaims.

in other newz messiah continues to bathe with scumsoap and somehow people are ignoring this. it boggles the mind.

That is funny Mollie, cause I remember a few times last night when I reached out to you offering to dance and being snubbed. Do you actually want to make sure your read is correct or are you just going to read everything we do now with confbias? I'd love to help you figure out where your read went wrong, maybe you should just listen to Majiffy, he seems to have a better grasp on us right now. And seriously, can you guys get your fucking shit together with reads? You are confusing as fuck to read right now because every post contradicts the last. If you are experiencing hydra dissonance then sort it out before spamming the thread with what should be in your qt. Kthanxbai.

Spoiler: For Pieguy

To start with ffery and I had an initial townread on UFO for the way he responded to my instant-on pressure about his homesite; it reminded us of how nacho did that to me, and of my reactions, in my first large. (Xenoblade chronicles, I can link the exchange if you'd like)

History of some other sites ensures here.

I first played pokemon on pokegym; a web forum designed around discussion of the pokemon TCG. It played some large role madness games, won some, lost some, but had fun. Then, there was an implosion in the community where a moderator of a game actively maniuplated activity modkills to favor his brother's team. The resulting bickering and fallout caused that site's admins to remove the werewolf community entirely. Some players stopped playing. Some found other homes, such as sixprizes, Pokémon online, or mafiascum. Examples from mafiascum include PMysterious, Paid Pyro, Prohawk, Angry Pidgeon, myself, Waynegg, and 3dicerolling. A good majority of us also moved offsite to sixprizes, where I'm a forum mod; and play there in addition.

The average age on these mafia subforums, unlike mafiascum, is usually below 16. Therefore a lot of the tells and quirks here don't apply. One thing that players newer to the game do a lot is get an early townread from one or two vocal players, and then spend the rest of the day lurking it out. I can point to the specific games if you want, Pie.

Basically, my townread of UFO sunk when he had a decent start, got a townread or two from some vocal people, and then.... nothing. The "I've got class" excuse is another common thing from that group.

Prohawk, upon his initial replace in and read, had pretty much the exact same thought. That's why we indicated a scum read upon him in our consolidated reads post. Him actually going ahead and replacing out places that read in flux, and we are hoping the replacement gives us more to work with.

Eh. Well...I believe you believe this is a good read? But yeah. Replacements.

I don't like this post.

Agreed, I don't like the whole idea of rebooting reads based on replacements. If the slot has shown itself to be scummy then it is scummy until proven otherwise. A new player can come in and town it the fuck up, but they also do so with the knowledge that their slot was being scum read.

[Messiah Complex]

Ok, that spoiler fucked up somehow, it was supposed to be a Dramonic quote where he quote strips and then has one work responses to. Thats my bad, not sure how that happened.

[Messiah Complex]

Firstly, other head voted. Secondly, I don't recall ever calling you a cheater, let me know if I did so I can make it right.

I'm also waiting to hear back from fish on the mini chunk he wanted from me that he's not following up on, the Devil Advocate thingie.

Sorry, went to bed and then woke up to a fake shooting, so I was distracted. Looking now.

[Messiah Complex]

How is FFery's scum game?

Ffery as a solo player has a much weaker scumgame than I do. As our hydra, morph, we have a 100% scum winrate.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=30839
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31267
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30234

Ffery has been pegged by mollie on day one before. That game was xenoblade chronicles, where she sat there and ate the day one lynch. Could she have kept it up if we were scum? I can't say for sure. But one of the cited reasons when she apologized to me upon leaving was that she was tired of repeating this over and over again, citing the parallels to The Walking Dead (where mollie scumread ffery incorrectly) and to Xenogears (remember day one early?). I don't think ffery would ever willingly get into one of these fights. I mean for fuck's sake she was so distressed she went global VLA for several days to get over the events of this game day. Mollie's ability to read ffery itself is a mixed bag. Mollie claims to have perfected the art, but she's been wrong a few times.

As for your other paragraph, my townread on that slot is based primarily upon the other two heads's posts. Ffery can supposedly tell when mollie's legit upset and when she's faking it, and left them as more town than jaquen in our hydra chat when she left. Could mollie know that tunneling us would make ffery react like that? I can't say for sure. But I don't think mollie is the kind of player that would alienate somebody she once enjoyed playing with to the point of blacklisting each other (or damn near) for a single scumgame mislynch, and I don't think that the other two heads would react as they are now if it was staged.

That said, our innocent child's main account is on both mine and ffery's blacklist, and I very much doubt either of us would have remained in signups had we known who it was. The mollie fight just complicated things. The reason I remain in the game is because I have a personal policy of never replacing out of games EVER. Prohawk was nice enough to join me here.

You mention Xenogears, a game I am unfamiliar with. Although I have seen that one mentioned many times now in my games, maybe I should go back and read it for posterity sake. How accurate would you say that Mollie is when reading Ffery? You say that she thinks to have perfected the art, but has been wrong a few times. Are we talking a 75% correct rate, worse/better? I am not liking the way that she is trying to read us right now, because she is dead fucking wrong, and I am trying to sort you guys out as well. She read you as scum, and you obvi claim to not be scum. She is screaming to the heavens that we are scum and she is wrong about us, so it seriously makes me wonder about her read on you guys as well.

I think we are in the same boat when trying to read Lush. I like Majiffy right now, cause he is reading us correctly and we are agreeing on some of his other reads as well. Bork is null because I can't really remember much that he has done. Mollie is acting like scum or severely misguided town. I think that she is being more paranoid than she need to be because of the ASOFAI game that we just played. I can see the argument for similar play styles in the two games, but there are glaring difference that should be talked about too. FAI we had bullshit catch up posts that should have been called out with more fervor than we received. In this game we are actually giving reads and support for our reads as we go. I marathoned like 40 pages yesterday and had to slog through page after page after page of shit. During that I am trying to engage people in the current part of the topic because I realized that ignoring the new stuff to catch up on the old stuff is a shitty way to catch up. Desp and I have since decided that while he is still catching up I will engage in most of the newer posting. He has tried to reach out to Mollie, as have I, and she isn't feeling playful apparently.

I feel you on not replacing out, I think it is a bitch move for the most part. I am unaware of the history that you guys have with the IC (Waynegg?) yet have seen him play in a game before. I can understand how the Mollie thing could complicate things, but you can see why I am reaching out to you to attempt to sort that slot out right now.

I have been getting more and more of a town read off of you, which makes me wonder about Lush. Does Mollie have a history of "misreading" either of you guys when she is scum to spread some mist around, or does she try to buddy up to you?

[Messiah Complex]

Mollie, you should probably rethink whatever you think you know. You failed to scum read us in Fire and Ice and I think you are overreacting to compensate for that. For myself I have had a hard time keeping up with this thread because it is already 58 pages deep and I get somewhat lost in larger game like this, especially when I have worked over 90 hours in the last week. Look at my finished games. Small ones I start out firing, while in larger ones it takes me a bit to get going.

We have been giving our reads as we go, so you can even see the evolution of those reads. I realize that giving reads 20 pages after the fact may seem pointless, but this is how we work. At least in this game.

If you want to dance, lets dance. If you have already made up your mind then do what you do.

Mollie, you should probably rethink whatever you think you know. You failed to scum read us in Fire and Ice and I think you are overreacting to compensate for that. For myself I have had a hard time keeping up with this thread because it is already 58 pages deep and I get somewhat lost in larger game like this, especially when I have worked over 90 hours in the last week. Look at my finished games. Small ones I start out firing, while in larger ones it takes me a bit to get going.

We have been giving our reads as we go, so you can even see the evolution of those reads. I realize that giving reads 20 pages after the fact may seem pointless, but this is how we work. At least in this game.

If you want to dance, lets dance. If you have already made up your mind then do what you do.

no I was leaning scum on you guys in asofai but I wasn't sure and you know I never want to lynch you unless I am pretty sure. I don't even want to lynch then. plus I wanted you to try to help me lynch quadzy pants but it just was not happening. I wasn't expecting to die so early since their were a lot more prominent players in the game so i left a muddy trail. my bad

also this is a total beetlejuice post from you

I am active now because this is the first day I've had off in a week. I am catching up on a lot of shit right now. You can call it what you want but I am currently trying to get fully caught up in the thread so at least one of us can say we aren't playing catch up. I am at post #604 right now and smack dab in the middle of the Lush/Cabd/Jaqen discussion. I checked the most current page to see where all the votes were at and skimmed that page, saw our name as a vote from you and was a little shocked.

I am active now because this is the first day I've had off in a week. I am catching up on a lot of shit right now. You can call it what you want but I am currently trying to get fully caught up in the thread so at least one of us can say we aren't playing catch up. I am at post #604 right now and smack dab in the middle of the Lush/Cabd/Jaqen discussion. I checked the most current page to see where all the votes were at and skimmed that page, saw our name as a vote from you and was a little shocked.

don't make this harder than it already is! I know what days you had off this week and I know you were active on site!

you have had time to post in this game!

You realize that Desp signs his posts while FF does not. I am Formerfish, and unless you are stalking me you don't know what you are talking about.

Guess you don't want to dance Mollie? Were you hoping that we would be an easier target?

Bubba, Mollie barely knows me and I doubt her ability to read me. I used a game we recently had together as an example.

Guess you don't want to dance Mollie? Were you hoping that we would be an easier target?

Bubba, Mollie barely knows me and I doubt her ability to read me. I used a game we recently had together as an example.

have you taken the nacho approach then which is to just troll? lol

for some reason people always read him as town for it too.

if you want to dance, lets dance

Jesus, so what happens when we do flip town? Mollie you falling on a sword for that, or is the same thing that happens anytime a mislynch occurs, people move on to the next candidate?

Jesus, so what happens when we do flip town? Mollie you falling on a sword for that, or is the same thing that happens anytime a mislynch occurs, people move on to the next candidate?

well I will look at the incredible effort you put into your posts. and the timing and wonder they had to be beetlejuiced.

and what that says about your partners!

Jesus, so what happens when we do flip town? Mollie you falling on a sword for that, or is the same thing that happens anytime a mislynch occurs, people move on to the next candidate?

well I will look at the incredible effort you put into your posts. and the timing and wonder they had to be beetlejuiced.

and what that says about your partners!

You are tilting at windmills here and if you are town you are destroying what could have been a beautiful relationship in this game. If you are scum then by all means continue down this path and you will surely help town win after our untimely death.

I am starting to feel like most of you see Messiah Complex as an alt for Desp. I don't want it to seem like I am pulling a Jan Brady here, but it's a hydra. One that I am part of as well. Hi guys, I'm Formerfish. I'm a gemini, have a new baby, got engaged in July, love comic books, and I play fucking mafia. I haven't been onsite for long but have played a good number of games in the time I have been here.

tl:dr- this is a hydra of Desperado and Formerfish. Please keep that in mind.

Also, still waiting for you to pick me up off your dance card Mollie. Unless you were being disingenuous about wanting to solidfy/sort your read on us.

Vote: Messiah

bcuz I luv mollie.

dearest, what did you make of their catchup post? fake? using quote links to hide what points they're making?

How the fuck is a link directly to the post that I'm referring to "hiding the point that I'm making?"

If you guys don't want us to read the whole game you can just say so.

@ mollie: I'm posting elsewhere but not here because I didn't want to post anything without having fully caught up. Your scumread fucking BLOWS and you should be ashamed of yourself.

- Des

That is funny Mollie, cause I remember a few times last night when I reached out to you offering to dance and being snubbed. Do you actually want to make sure your read is correct or are you just going to read everything we do now with confbias? I'd love to help you figure out where your read went wrong, maybe you should just listen to Majiffy, he seems to have a better grasp on us right now. And seriously, can you guys get your fucking shit together with reads? You are confusing as fuck to read right now because every post contradicts the last. If you are experiencing hydra dissonance then sort it out before spamming the thread with what should be in your qt. Kthanxbai.

I didn't snub either of you!

we danced and you were too swaddled in scummy blankets to recognise it or even do it properly

Mollie. Come here. Real talk. Where in this exchange are we dancing? I have seen you dance before, hell I've seen you dance in

this game

and I don't see us dancing. I see you continuing a bad read with little evidence. I see you trivializing my reach out to you saying that I am trolling. I see you calling my activity beetlejuicing when it should be obvious to anyone with a fucking brain that I have been active on site for the last 2 days. I see you assuming that Desp is the only one of us posting, and making your read off of him. I see you saying that you have a bead on me as a player and I call that shit into severe fucking question. I see you repeatedly dodging me when I am here and trying to interact with you. I see you engage in confbias all over the place. So I'm sorry if I missed your

obvious

attempts to dance with me, but I don't fucking see it.

[Messiah Complex]

Hey Mollie. Stop deflecting. If you are accusing me of cherry picking then show what posts I have left out of our tet-a-tet. Otherwise how about you address, I don't know, anyfuckingthing else I've talked about

[Messiah Complex]

What in our meta points to us being scum? For real your repeated dodging of us is starting to piss me off. Mollie, I generally have no issue with you, but if you continue down this path I will have no recourse than to burn you to the fucking ground. But hey, won't be the first shit storm you are involved in due to inaccurate tunneling.

[Messiah Complex]

Kaze do you have something to say about what is going on between me and Mollie at the moment? Cause you fucking shouldn't.

[Messiah Complex]

And I think it has been pointed out multiple times this game that people shouldn't shit on others lines of investigations. Mollie is purposefully avoiding coming at us head on. She is sniping at us from far away, talking to everyone about us but not to us. I am trying to sort her right now and I don't give a fuck what you think is uncouth, butt out.

[Messiah Complex]

Ok, what do you think of her avoidance of us? I have posted multiple posts that actually have a bit of content, and questions, and an offer to dance to figure each other out. Each time I am met with "why are you not voting messiah, and you are still not voting messiah, just fucking bus messiah already, messiah are scum, DIE SCUM DIE!!!!, we danced and you were too swaddled in scummy blankets to recognise it or even do it properly, in other newz messiah continues to bathe with scumsoap and somehow people are ignoring this, have you taken the nacho approach then which is to just troll." Before I get accused of cherry picking (without backing) those are just the one liners used to reference us. So Kaze, you are such the good fucking citizen, what do you make of this?

[Messiah Complex]

Mollie is scumread us while one of her other heads is reading us as town, or at least not scum reading us. Did you miss the back and forth that Mollie and Jiffy had where Jif unvoted us, voted bubba, mollie voted us, jif voted bubba, mollie voted us.

She is in here quite often and is not talking directly to us. It has nothing to do with her other heads.

[Messiah Complex]

And your noncommittal answer and lack of knowledge of what is going on is why I would like to kindly invite you to participate in another conversation and leave this one to the people who are directly involved in it.

[Messiah Complex]

Assuming I can find the proper amount of motivation, expect catchups on the rest of the thread from me by tomorrow morning.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

anyways I am still convinced messiah are scum and will continue to do so until they prove otherwise. desp knows how to towntell and he is simply not doing it.

^wtf is this shit?

And how does it make us scum?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Also, mollie, I'm just going to quote Marlo here:

"You want it to be one way--but it's the other way."

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

anyways I am still convinced messiah are scum and will continue to do so until they prove otherwise. desp knows how to towntell and he is simply not doing it.

^wtf is this shit?

And how does it make us scum?

- Des

I dunno doesn't it mean when some1 isn't towntelling that usually they are scum?

and I have no idea what quote by marlo was supposed to mean since you know I want you to be town but you simply aren't.

What you actually said was that I "know how towntell" meaning I know how to appear town regardless of my actual alignment, so me "not towntelling" would be null right?

And the Marlo quote means exactly what it says--think about it for a minute.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I don't like the other head of the hydra defending Des when Des was the one Lush was scumreading. The Des head responses aren't good.

My name is Formerfish, or you could call me Mr. Fish. Lush is scum reading both of us because we are one slot, and she actually said she's reading my head as scummy too. Would you like to elaborate in what you found "not good" in his posts, or do you feel confident with just letting that comment hang out on that ledge all alone and naked?

Why are you scum reading us again?

[Messiah Complex]

Is it just me, or is bubba just fishing for reasons to vote people?

It's not just you

I don't like the other head of the hydra defending Des when Des was the one Lush was scumreading. The Des head responses aren't good.

You don't like a slot defending itself?

Or do you not understand how hydras work?

VC 1.17

Varsoon (L-10):

ActionDan

bubbajack8 (L-9):

Messiah Complex | Lush Life

pieguyn (L-9):

Mac | Kise
>

GoodCop_BadCop (L-7):

Kagami | pieguyn | Jaqen Hghar | Varsoon

Messiah Complex (L-10):

Amaranth

Tsukasa (L-10):

zMuffinman

SXTLHGaiden (L-9):

Kazekirimaru | bubbajack8

Kazekirimaru (L-9):

The Chamber of Kittens | Katarina LeBlanc

Varsoon (L-9):

Serene | dramonic

dramonic (L-10):

Tsukasa

Not Voting:

Saki, SXTLHGaiden, GoodCop_BadCop

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch.

Deadline: 1/18/2014 12:00 AM EDT
Counter: (expired on 2014-01-18 01:00:00)

This VC reflexes the replacement change.

This VC is pathetic. Echoing Majiffy's sentiments--the vanity wagons need to stop. We're just jerking each other off now.

People we had a Bubba wagon. We can have a Bubba wagon again. Bubba is fucking obvscum up in this beyotch.

+1

Fuck it, head before ass, right Mollie?

VOTE: Serene

noooooooooo Not the shiny things! Not the shiny things Jiffy!

Back to Bubbaaaaaaaa

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Hey bork, get fucked. Both Desp and I have tried working with Mollie but she has her head shoved so far in the sand it goes no where. She's even ignoring other people when they ask questions about how she read us this way. Still waiting on that slam dunk meta case against us.

[Messiah Complex]

Mollie, we can dance. I would like to get to know you better as well, since you know my bro IRL and we will probably be playing in a lit of the same games. I should be on tomorrow for a good period of time.

On to game related stuff, if GCBC did crumb stump what is the town motivation to talk about it? I know that question has been asked already, but unless I missed it the question has not been answered.

This group seems to exhibit a lot of etiquette faux pas that really rustle my jimmie. Stomping all over peoples investigations, sticking their noses in places they don't belong, outing information that if noticed they should have just shut the fuck about.

Trying to set up a time to catch up with Desp since we have mostly been working solo in this game so far.

[Messiah Complex]

Did varsoon's little theatrics SERIOUSLY manage to derail the wagon?
Ridiculous

You buy bubba's crumb?

Yes
It's so completely fucking stupid, I don't think he'd have been able to not claim scum if he actually was.

Can we please lynch this tomorrow since we are not going to be able to do it today? Unless we can flash lynch this, anyone down with that.

Mollie, not ignoring you, just phone posting in the waiting room while my fiancé is getting checked out. Answering your question about muffin will take more activity than I can do ATM. When and how did your read change on GCBC? And how do you feel about people saying that Varsoon is playing to his town meta?

[Messiah Complex]

I quoted those posts because honestly I feel like all of his post have been like that. I can remember any kind of content from him at all. The entire impression I have of that slot is to come in here once in awhile, make a snarky comment about one little thing going on in the game, and then back to super lurk mode. Do you guys seriously have a town read on that vapid waste of a slot?

[Messiah Complex]

DRAM IS TOWN

HE IS OUR BULLETPROOF MASON

WTF mate?

[Messiah Complex]

@Mod: V/LA until Tuesday morning.

So this means he is absent at the end of the day phase? Can we speedlynch this as a big screw you?

[Messiah Complex]

Vote Gaiden

Why go lva when they have been nonexistent all game?

[Messiah Complex]

For all ye disenfranchised, distracted, down trodden, confused, hungry, tired, annoyed and listless players: come off of the people who aren't going to get lynched today and come over to Gaiden. What has he done at all today but capitalize on the scattered play that we are seeing by fading in and out of the public eye here and doing just a slight bit more than nothing. If we can't agree on anything else can we please agree that this game would be better without Gaiden in it?

[Messiah Complex]

Chamber of Kittens (L-9): Serene
GoodCop_BadCop (L-10): Jaqen Hghar
Messiah Complex (L-10): Amaranth
Tsukasa (L-10): zMuffinman
Kise (L-10): bubbajack8

These lynches aren't fucking happening today. Choose again. Saki vote for someone.

[Messiah Complex]

Vote: Dramonic

This dude is scum scum scum.

WE ARE HATED TODAY

[Messiah Complex]

Is that something done to you, messiah?

Yes and no.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

he could have been a quick counter to target those on gaiden to switch

[Messiah Complex]

Our lynch pool today is {Dram, Bubba, Kise, Amaranth}

Can't remember why we took Muffin out; what are you guys seeing there?

Dan would be the 5th name if we expanded the pool.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Derp is like, the easiest thing to fake as scum. Way easier than actually being protown, at the very least.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Do you have to use cap lock right now, you got some sort of post restriction? Or you just being annoying?

[Messiah Complex]

Pie, I apologize. The passing of your partner has been felt across the land. We mourn with you.

[Messiah Complex]

Also given WHAT gaiden flipped I'm wondering if this isn't reversed from the game. As in enemies are town, heroes are scum?

Can you talk about this some more?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I meant that last bit. Who are the heroes and who are the enemies?

[Messiah Complex]

Alright, I am going to throw my hands in the air with the flavor because I have no idea what any of it even is. I don't know who are good or bad and the Touhou wiki isn't exactly clear. I may need to dive into this a little bit more before I figure anything out.

[Messiah Complex]

Our lynch pool today is {Dram, Bubba, Kise, Amaranth}

Can't remember why we took Muffin out; what are you guys seeing there?

Dan would be the 5th name if we expanded the pool.

- Des

This is where we are at gents.

[Messiah Complex]

I was saying it yesterday before we moved to Gaiden.

[Messiah Complex]

I was just pointing out it was more than just a passing read.

[Messiah Complex]

Kat what exactly did you ask?

[Messiah Complex]

3rded

[Messiah Complex]

Vote Kat

Scumz be slippin.

[Messiah Complex]

Flavor name?

[Messiah Complex]

Our role matches our flavor, yours does not seem to match. GCBC does yours match at all?

[Messiah Complex]

I'm not familiar with that game, care to explain a little more?

[Messiah Complex]

Unvote

And now back to our regularly scheduled lynch for the day.

Vote: Dram

[Messiah Complex]

On her and the multiball thing?

[Messiah Complex]

I asked the mod as well to make sure we had more than one response. I was told that he lieks turtlez. I think that for her to slip up like that as scum she would have to have an incredible ability to come up with that fake claim in that short amount of time. I just had to look oracle up myself because I've never played with one.

[Messiah Complex]

And we would know for sure that we are looking at a no multiball situation.

[Messiah Complex]

The top of the kill reveal does say something about the "bad" girls deciding to have those two absent from the next meeting.

[Messiah Complex]

One thing that does kinda bug me about Kat is the idea that she was going to be one of the front runners for the night kill, which led her to seemingly rush her power use. It is nothing substantial, just something that nags at me a bit.

P-edit- Amaranth parked his vote on us yesterday when Mollie was scumreading us, and then disappeared. Came back once to say that he didn't like how I was defending my other head to someone, and poof gone again. Pretty sure he ended yesterday on a prod.

[Messiah Complex]

VC Day 1 Final

SXTLHGaiden (L-3):

Kazekirimaru | Katerina LeBlanc | Kagami | Messiah Complex | zMuffinman | bubbajack8 | Serene | Saki

Lynched

Varsoon (L-4):

ActionDan | dramonic | Mac | Lush Life | GoodCop_BadCop | The Chamber of Kittens | Varsoon

bubbajack8 (L-8):

Kise | SXTLHGaiden | Tsukasa

Action Dan (L-10):

pieguyn

Messiah Complex (L-10):

Amaranth

GoodCop_BadCop (L-10):

Jaqen Hghar

Not Voting:

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch.

Deadline: 1/18/2014 12:00 AM EDT
Counter: (expired on 2014-01-18 01:00:00)

Gaiden is V/LA until 1/21.

Was I hallucinating or did I see Kise pop his head up and throw a vote down without mentioning anything else that was going on?

[Messiah Complex]

Sorry, quote fail.

Although I will point out, we also had Kise, and Tsukasa off the main lynch trains.

[Messiah Complex]

Triple post, Desp and I based our lynch pool off of 50% train analysis, 25% reads and 25% gut.

[Messiah Complex]

I have the day off and generally try to keep up with the thread on my phone if I don't have computer access, so I'll be around.

[Messiah Complex]

Noting page 98 to start with.

Also

Seriously I can't read gaiden for shit.

Mod: V/LA 2 days. Serious College stuff

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

- des

[Messiah Complex]

Tsukasa was a late cut for us but that was scummy as balls.

I buy the oracle claim. The derpiness of it is similar to Kat's behavior around the Gaiden wagon, which was weird but ultimately town weird.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Yeah it is. Its the better form of her question though, and it took me 0 thought to get to it, which suggests she didn't think very much about how to best phrase the question she wanted to ask? So I don't believe she asked that question I guess.

She claims it has to be a yes or no question.

@ Mollie: What a shitty fucking question. Which of reads suck and why?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

The notion that the scum would just "give up" on a 1-shot strongman encryptor D1 with two viable counterwagons (one of whom was pushing his own wagon) is ludicrous. If there was scum on Gaiden, they were on it early and didn't have a chance to get off because they weren't here at the deadline.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

With that said, we're town, Kaze flipped, Katerina's town because role, and Kagami is just town.

Scum were doing everything they could to save Gaiden.

-Des

[Messiah Complex]

and the strongman is just a 1-shot

The strongman being 1-shot is an argument in my favor--even more incentive to just bus Gaiden for being useless tomorrow after he's gotten his kill off.

And I can't come up with a scum team in this playerlist that would look at day talk and just toss it away like that.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Prod received, in the middle of 10 days on at work. Will catch up and post tonight.

[Messiah Complex]

We are good with voting Dan.

Vote: ActionDan

[Messiah Complex]

Vote: Muffin

[Messiah Complex]

...Debating massclaim at this point.

Nah, not yet.

First we lynch scum, then we get more results tomorrow, then we evaluate.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

You read Lush's ISO too didn't you?

The muffin read comes out of NOWHERE and is like, the first thing all three heads agreed on all game. Bork and Jiffy both reversed D1 townreads if I read correctly as well. It couldn't be more obvious to us.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Correction: Jiffy had Muffin as town and ceded the hydra to the other two, mollie was quietly working with him, and bork thought there was scum in muffin/kagami/pie which becomes a hard muffinscum read D2.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

also pretty sure mollie did think i was scum D1, as did bork

so them discussing me overnight and thinking i'm scum D2 isn't a surprise, even if they were blatantly wrong

*shrug*

You're welcome to find some evidence, but all I saw from mollie to you late in d1 was a small "muffin what say you" line in a huge molliepost. and like I said, Bork had 1 scum in {Muffin, Pie, Kagami} D1 which turned into 1 scum in {Muffin} D2.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

all I saw from mollie to you late in d1 was a small "muffin what say you" line in a huge molliepost

mollie thought i was scum for most of D1 iirc, i'm pretty sure you could see this if you look at anywhere mollie actually mentioned her read on me

So like I said, you're welcome to provide evidence of this...

Bork had 1 scum in {Muffin, Pie, Kagami} D1 which turned into 1 scum in {Muffin} D2.

i can think of a number of possible reasons for this. one big reason could be that pieguy was a confirmed mason at this point - i'm not entirely sure, but this might have played a factor in why bork was no longer scum reading pie. and i'm pretty sure bork was calling kagami town for most of D1 and suggesting if there was scum in that trio it wasn't kagami. so. yeah.

Or they investigated you.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I forgot CoK used to be Remembrance

dat trust tell

That makes a whole lot of sense.

-Fishy

[Messiah Complex]

Jaqen, just because he isn't rushing into the thread to answer your question that he may/may not know exists doesn't mean he won't answer it. Do you seriously need to answered right this fucking second?

[Messiah Complex]

-Fishy

[Messiah Complex]

Its not your questioning I am intending to step on, so forget that line of thought, it is your incessant posting about how long it has been since you asked it and haven't received an answer.

And I text my other half, but he is probably sleeping, so you will have to wait until he is conscious again before you get your reply.

[Messiah Complex]

Okey dokey then, well I am off to bed myself. I open tomorrow at 8am, good ol 6 hours of sleep.

-Fishy

[Messiah Complex]

A man asks that of Desparado because Desparado himself used the same play in Castle: A Mafia Murder So Vile (I got a guilty on Mantis! lynch it!) to break a fast and as such must have intimate knowledge of such a dire ploy.

See, now that makes more sense.

I guiltied Mantis because I was already dead from hammering Huntress the day before. Whose play is that supposed to be similar to, Dan's?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

A man asks that of Desparado because Desparado himself used the same play in Castle: A Mafia Murder So Vile (I got a guilty on Mantis! lynch it!) to break a fast and as such must have intimate knowledge of such a dire ploy.

See, now that makes more sense.

I guiltied Mantis because I was already dead from hammering Huntress the day before. Whose play is that supposed to be similar to, Dan's?

- Des

Dude your syntax is making it impossible read what you write.

How is my fake-guiltying Mantis the same thing as Cabd suggesting that Lush had a guilty on Muffin???

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

No, they aren't. I preemptively claimed a guilty because I knew I was going to be that day's lynch. None of that is even remotely similar to what Cabd did.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

2644

Unless a hidder PR interacted with him, nacho motivated him

Hey, that's us!

We're

Marisa Kirisame, the Good Stealing Girl

.

Each night we target one player and take something of theirs. Some people have stuff, some don't. Stuff matches flavor. Our target will be notified our of our action and it might do something to them.

We targeted Lush N1 and stole the Rod of Judgement (also called the Rod of Remorse).
We targeted Dramonic N2 and he didn't have anything worth stealing.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

@ Sakura: this was the weirdest deadline Cabd post by far:

Uh guys once again i'd like to remind you that the claimed mason just said "no touching gaiden" so uh yeah.

Could it really be Cabd/Nacho/Muffin though?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Did the rod make you hated, MC? Does it confer some benefit?

p-edit: pie block pretty much conf-towns me anyway. There is no conceivable scum motivation to roleblock pie

That was our assumption, yeah. It says Yama gave us the punishment herself (for stealing it--punishment for stealing from a town PR we presume).

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Do you know how the theft affects the target? Is it at all possible that you inadvertently mucked with the investigation(s)?

There's no further clarity, so yeah it's possible.

-Des

[Messiah Complex]

We wanted to check on Lush because of the tunnel they were in on us. Either Mollie was misguided, or they were scum trying to push hard for our mislynch. So we picked her for our N1 action and we stole the rod. I had to clarify with the mod about the item we stole, and we found out who the rod belonged to. That is why at the beginning of D2 I was talking about flavor so much, because we had their flavor name but we were trying to figure out what it meant.

As far as dramonic, we don't exactly know what to make of him. Probably a vt, but I suppose he could be a goon.

We have conferred and are calling a Muffin/Nacho/Bubba scum team. Put money on it, put your momma on it, take it to the hole and slam that shit home. This game is a fucking wrap. Let's put the women and children to bed and go find some fucking dinner.

[Messiah Complex]

@ Sakura: this was the weirdest deadline Cabd post by far:

Uh guys once again i'd like to remind you that the claimed mason just said "no touching gaiden" so uh yeah.

Could it really be Cabd/Nacho/Muffin though?

- Des

No.
And maybe, if there's a townie bone in your body, you will look into Cabd after Muffin flips town.
I doubt you'll get me lynched, though.

Does your motivation target get to act twice immediately?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Does your motivation target get to act twice immediately?

- Des

I assume so.

So which two people did Lush investigate IYO?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

And this, crazily enough, is bullshit. You knew mollie was town D1 because she was obviously town; I can't believe she's the best suspect you had in mind.

We actually didn't know mollie was obvtown D1. She was beyond tunneled on us and she kept voting Varsoon at the deadline.

We had also been crumbing a PR to her specifically all day, and we knew that they would see us visiting.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

And this, crazily enough, is bullshit. You knew mollie was town D1 because she was obviously town; I can't believe she's the best suspect you had in mind.

We actually didn't know mollie was obvtown D1. She was beyond tunneled on us and she kept voting Varsoon at the deadline.

We had also been crumbing a PR to her specifically all day, and we knew that they would see us visiting.

- Des

Do you think her being tunneled on you means she's scum?

It definitely didn't make her town. Again, the main reason we chose Lush was because our response to mollie's scumread was to tell her that she wants it to be one way (she thinks we're scum) when it's really the other way (we're a town PR)--mollie and I talk a lot about how they both drop similar tells and its hard to distinguish. We thought that if we targeted them with our ability, she might understand, and their opening D2 supports that.

- Des

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Who else were you talking about investigating that night?

No one. As soon as it was clear that mollie wasn't coming out of the tunnel, we started dropping PR hints and decided to target them to prove it.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

MC, does the rod do anything at all for you?

I asked, the answer was "items are related to flavor."

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

That makes sense. What do you think of Cabd?

If we're wrong about one of our three then he's scum, and I'm becoming increasingly convinced that we are wrong.

I thought that neither of us ever understood even what caused the meltdown, and prior to that I don't really remember anything she did (keeping in mind I didn't read a ton of early D1).

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Flavor cop seems useless here, and it carries a disadvantage (hated) with it, and doesn't work on some people...

I'd recommend jacking GCBC's sword tonight, might do fun stuff.

We think it doesn't work on vanillas, not just some people, and that there isn't necessarily a disadvantage attached.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

So, Muffin flips town, you lynch Cabd?
Why do you think Muffin is scum?

We think Lush investigated him. That's pretty much it.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Also i'm guessing MC is hated because he stole something from Remi, on FG's Touhou Upick, Remi and Flandre were Hated (until i turned off the sun).

In case it wasn't clear from the wording, we aren't hated anymore. It was just for D2.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

##vote Messiah Complex

K. Time to lynch actual scum.

Go on...

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I have trouble seeing a cop, especially those three, unvote their guilty and allow another guilty lynch to die over their guilty result.

Why? They wanted to get another investigation in before claiming and didn't expect to die after surviving N1 + the existence of a living mason.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

##vote Messiah Complex

K. Time to lynch actual scum.

Go on...

- Des

Your role doesn't actually do anything useful. at all. Everyone else has decent utility (or else claimed VT). I can see your role being a scum one that steals shit and acts like a weak rolecop + lets you do something with what you steal.

2ndly I never got any town vibes from you D1 or D2.

Yeah, that one-shot oracle is way more useful than a vanilla cop/self confirming fruit vendor.

Fucking seriously?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

And man, that 1-Shot bomb claim; amazing utility!

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Nice try what? We stole from the cop and we got an item; we stole from a claimed VT and he "didn't have anything worth stealing."

What do you suppose that means?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I have trouble seeing a cop, especially those three, unvote their guilty and allow another guilty lynch to die over their guilty result.

Why? They wanted to get another investigation in before claiming and didn't expect to die after surviving N1 + the existence of a living mason.

- Des

And yet that surviving mason wasn't killed N1.
The possibility of them dying was clearly there, and I don't think mollie would be willing to risk Muffin surviving and coasting through the whole game after she caught him.

Um...hello!!! Muffin was just at L-1. They CLEARLY did enough to implicate Muffin in the event of their death.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Like I can't believe you just said that with a straight face given the day's events.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Muffin is at L-1 because CABD pointed out the guilty crumbs; if that hadn't happened, I highly doubt Muffin would be at L-1 at any point today.

You're dreaming. I didn't need cabd's help to see that Lush crumbed a guilty on him. I doubt Kagami or anyone else did either.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

the fact you are assuming you're a vanilla cop when there is insufficient evidence to make that conclusion. you are a role that may or may not steal shit from certain players.

No, we're a role that steals shit and certain players might not have anything worth stealing.

There's no other interpretation.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I got that. that doesn't mean you'll steal shit from all PRS or not steal anything from all VTs

If items match flavor, how would a VT's flavor justify having something to steal?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Dan, this push is bad. Even if you're right and we're wrong and our results don't mean shit and just make bad stuff happen...that doesn't make us scum.

Especially

if all other town PRs are positive utility.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

since when did you make bad stuff happen?

We became hated after stealing from Lush and our PM says our target may be affected by our visit

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Well, dipshits, I'm still flipping town.

We can lynch me today instead of the day before lylo but here's the conditions:

1. You speedlynch the fuck out of muffin and nacho subsequently
2. You realize jaquen isn't worth the slot he's in and subsequently ignore him and his opinions the rest of the game
3. DId I mention speedlynching muffin?
4. You make peace with the fact that you're lynching me over the same logic muffin is using to clear himself.

Cabd later claims he just saw a bunch of votes and was "racing for the topic lock" and this is the shit he chose to say first?

Fuck no.

'Un CC'd tracker with a flipped scum ninja"
"Un CC'd bulletproof (with no true doc claim) with a flipped scum strongman"

And yet nbody sees the issue with this logic?

He sees all of the votes on him but not Mac's claim, even though Mac's claim falls right in the middle of the wagon that built? This is scum flailing.

Also, if sakura is town, which I'm about 50-50 on, I take great pride that her supposed perfect ability to read me isn''t worth the paper she writes it on.

SCUM FLAILING

Huh. News to me. Still town though, so it doesn't really matter. You're still speedlynchiing muffin tomorrow.

SCUM FLAILING

yeah, you're not town

you'd be trying to figure things out now if you were town

instead you're pushing the same tired line

Vote: GCBC

Yeah I wake up at 5PM after sleeping off being up vomiting till 6am, see a metric fuckton of votes on me, I kinda proceed under the assumption that I'm already dead and racing for the lock.

And this is where he damns himself. Does anyone really believe that 3456-3460 are the product of a town-Cabd who thinks he's already dead?

And excccccuse me, princess, for not being that motivat6ed when the mod-confirmed town village idiot has posted a sign to my back that says "free win for scum in LYLO"

Like, this doesn't even serve a purpose except to excuse his shitty play. I refuse to believe town-Cabd would let an IC with a bad read affect him this much.

His scum MO is hard busing, and hard busing early.

~Him and nacho to DP in marketplace
~Him to like half of his team when replacing into death's diner
~Him to Bro in bork's touhou mini
~Him right here in this game to gaiden

I'd ask you if you even read Muffin's "push" on Gaiden, but something you say later makes it pretty clear that you hadn't.

Look at the sheer confidence with which he led the swing onto gaiden day one. Then look at it again assuming he was informed in advance. Then compare that to his sudden drive in those other games. Day two of touhou. Day... 2 or 3 of marketplace. The day he replaced into death's diner.

This is the one. The "sheer confience???"

It's a worthless mislynch, but it's a shot in the dark

yep

this game would be better without Gaiden in it

yep

U are ou t of your fucking minds if you think gaiden has more of a chance flipping scum than varsoon

nope

Unvote
Vote: Gaiden

I'm not switching. the gaiden wagon looks really scum driven and the Varsoon wagon looks town-driven (although this is positional) and it makes me think gaiden is a scum-driven counterwagon to Varsoon. add to that how easy gaiden is to lynch considering he's been a giant lurkfuck and his wagon is skeevy is fuck

i'm on gaiden purely as a counter-wagon to varsoon. i dislike the idea of a gaiden lynch less than i dislike the idea of a varsoon lynch. there's like <4 hours left to get >8 people agreeing on a wagon that isn't either of gaiden or varsoon. it's probably not happening.

i'll be around~ish til deadline either way

@cabd

i don't even think gaiden is all that likely to flip scum and he could very well be town

but varsoon isn't scum here


@jaqen,

half the players you listed don't have a scum read on GCBC

Wow, such conviction!

Why did you go against Varsoon D1 when only him and Gaiden were possible lynches. What from Varsoon pinged your radar? You also went towards him with a lot of confidence, and i would understand that if you were scum with how much you love daychat. From what i recall most of your posts by the end of D1 were like "OMG VARSOON'S SCUM LYNCH HIM ALREADY, IF YOU DONT YOU'RE SCUM" or things like that.

With a mason claim on the board and them NOT saying who their partner was, I had no intention of lynching anyone in their town reads lest that be the partner. Hence my post... saying that. As for varsoon he and I never get along, I guess? Like I always read him as scum, but usually lack the motivation to call him on it. And he was showing patterns very similar to what he did in Xenogears, where I beat him in 3p LYLO. (Also I'm still not convinced day one wasn't two scum wagons with varsoon having a better night action; but that's more a 10%ish theory than anything concrete.)

So a funny thing happened in the course of making this post. Absolutely none of this is true! Let's start with the last bits first: Varsoon's play here doesn't really resemble his play in Xenogears at all to me. I'd love to see what "patterns" he's shown that are similar. And the notion that Varsoon and Gaiden were both scum with Varsoon having the better night action is fucking incomprehensible. #1 Gaiden flipped Strongman Encryptor, #2

Varsoon was self-voting. Why would he be trying to sacrifice himself if he had a better ability?

Now the main course: Pie thought Gaiden's opening was scum and was leaning on YOUR townread of him:

for now, I'll townread Tsukasa. he's being proactive early and there's also a ton of defiance in his posts that I tend to attribute more to a town mindset. I especially noticed it here

P.S.

It's way more helpful if you vote me.

That was I know you're VI

and there's others
I'll also townread Lush Life for being obvtown and legitimately townslipping re: Jaqen. also bubbajack for being proactive early. I'll also townread Kaze bc I can't read him for shit and I tend to pick up on a lot of shit from him and I get the feeling if he was scum he'd be more careful and I'd pick up less
morph's frustration re: mollie feels town but idk if they'd get frustrated as scum plus I'm paranoid as fuck about them for practically no reason =.=

townblock: me, Kaze, Lush Life, bubbajack, Jaqen, Tsukasa

@Cabd:

are you all sure of Gaiden town? I wanna be sure he can't fake that opening as scum > <
why is Kaze town?
what's your thoughts on Kise?

@borkjiffymollie:

are you still having reservations about Kaze town?
what's your opinion on Kise?
why the vote on morph?

@Kaze:

same question about Gaiden. also, why is zmuffin town?

Why the FUCK would Mason-Pie need to express doubt on his potential mason partner Gaiden when you (and others, apparently) were giving him a free pass to townread him without making a fuss?

Oh yeah, he wouldn't.

then one of the other "main" leaders of the gaiden quickwagon day one is scum. At least one player on that early shot KNEW the result in advance.

Why does it have to be this way? I consider myself pretty good at reading Gaiden even when he fluffs and lurks, and if I can do it I don't why someone else wouldn't pick on what I've picked.

The speed and traction smelt informed. I remember hawkie doing a big post about it back on day two.

This entire track is retarded. Why on earth would the scum chose to deadline lynch their strongman encryptor when Varsoon was

self-voting

??

that time line is messed up a bit?

amaranth didn't post til after ffery had already left (like well after)

Then maybe I am mis-remembering. I'm kind of avoiding that entire fight best I can mentally. digging it up once more will bring no good. Not to mention I feel terrible discussing it with neither party around to speak for themselves.

SCUM. FLAILING.

UNVOTE:

I want time to talk this out, anyways.

PE: Sakura yes, but not in the same way, really.

This is the part where you explain how they are different.

I want to lynch bubba~

So do we, but not today.

@cabd,

outside the nacho one, most of your other reads are in line with my own.

This is true yes.

IF you're town (and the way you're being stubborn here is making me think this could be possible)

I am but my stubbornness has nothing to do with it.

i think there's a very good chance saki is scum (recent posts about me being third party were really awkward)

He is, I don't disagree, but would a hypothetical me-scum make him town?

and dram's probably scum, too.

Once again, yes, probably, but I don't see how me being scum would make both fo these town magically?

so let's talk about your read on me. you have this idea that my behaviour towards gaiden looked like standard bussing i do.

I do, yes. Even you have to admit that of every game of yours that I've been town to your scum, you've hardbussed at least once.

i'm telling you that if you've ever read any scum QT of mine in any of the games i've bussed a scum mate, you'd know how far off you are (i wouldn't bus like that for no reason).

This is very debatable. I've read through a scum QT or two of yours and don't get the same indication. Care to link specific QT posts for what you're trying to state?

and the other reason you seem to think i'm scum is because lush's vote on me at the start of D2 looked like crumbing a guilty.

You know if I had a really good alternate theory for how night one's roles went down I'd stop this here and now, but I've yet to see anything epic convincing to the contrary.

but they unvoted me with like no resistance to pursue an AD lynch, and nacho is pointing out that mollie does not play like that with a guilty and is perfectly fine with outing a guilty.

I fully admit part of this is probably related to my self-perceived inability to read you and the self-perpetuating hope that mollie sorted you via the mod so that I don't have to; but surely you you realize that this post kind of gives me a mini alarm bell too given you made a post kiiiinda along these lines to pie in marketplace and won him over, right?

is there any other reason you think i'm scum?

Hawkie's VCA, if you'd like to re-walk that path be my guest and let's talk about it.

has this back and forth done nothing to change your mind?

Somewhat, hence my unvote and wish to sort this out more convincingly, but even now I feel like neither of us two should be anywhere near lylo.

Maybe it's just me, but even the formatting of this post is scummy. The only reason I can think of to respond to each sentence in an individual quote box is to discourage people from reading it.

tl;dr:

Vote: GoodCop_BadCop

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

You know, this might be a strange concept, but if you guys have a question about

our

ability you could always ask us.

[Messiah Complex]

So you would rather lynch someone with a role that could be used to verify people, than someone who claims to have no ability whatsoever? That seems assbackwards.

p-edit- I thought we had, but you guys seem to have misunderstood something along the way. The items we steal are flavor indicative. We can not steal functional items, such as the ones given by the inventor. The item we stole from Lush only told us who they were, which again is why I talked as much about the flavor as I did at d2 start. The targets with the items do not know they have them, nor can we do anything with the items that we take. Is that more clear?

[Messiah Complex]

I don't feel good about Bubba. The whole I asked the mod about stealing items doesn't sit well with me given the clarification I was given on the role, added to the fact that when I asked if he would answer someone in the negative about items to be stolen I was told I would not be getting an answer to my question.

[Messiah Complex]

Vote Bubba

Serene visiting Bubba would have resulted in her death only if Bubba activated himself. I think now would be the time for you to explain that part of your role.

[Messiah Complex]

Bubba. Explain the mechanic that goes along with your role in your next post or I swear to God I will run a tunnel so far into you that you'll be stretched out worse than a turned out lifer in prison.

[Messiah Complex]

So you need to correctly predict which night you're going to die and then activate yourself, and you only get one chance to do this? What happens if you activate and aren't targeted for a kill?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

"It's gone in the morning"

Yeah, this role can't be real.

Unvote
Vote: Bubba

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

The point I am trying to make Bubba, is how do you activate yourself? Do you send a PM to the Mod and are activated for that night, or the next night? If you are a bomb then wouldn't you explode and die too if you were targeted? Neither of the people who died n1 Serene or Kaze had killing roles, so even if they targeted you they shouldn't have died. I need to go back to see who has been pushing the Serene died for visiting Bubba angle, but it doesn't look good to me that Bubba never corrected that person or even pointed out the faulty logic in the statement.

[Messiah Complex]

I've seen his crumbs. You want me to find a post where I claim to be a day vig?

[Messiah Complex]

Bubba, how often do you crumb your role? Can you show other times when you have done so?

[Messiah Complex]

Never played that set up, no.

[Messiah Complex]

Except for the fact that he is saying that the kill only happens when he is targeted for a kill. Has he answered yet if he blows up as well, or does it just kill the attacker? That question is more of an aside. My point is, Serene and Kaze were not killers, why would one of them visiting Bubba cause their death? Answer, it wouldn't.

[Messiah Complex]

Do you guys think that there are goons in the game?

[Messiah Complex]

Btw I asked mod if I had anything that could get stolen. The reply effectively stated that only specific things mentioned in the role PM could be stolen. I have no such thing. Thus Mc is not a vanilla cop

This is funny since the Mod sent us an unprovoked message stating that the targets we steal from are unable to use the items we steal, and are not even aware of the fact that they have them to be stolen.

Lush had no idea they had a Rod to steal, and we didn't affect them by stealing it. We did get a hated status for the day though. The Rod ends up being a part of their flavor.

Dramonic had nothing worth stealing, so he is either a VT or he is a goon. Does anyone think that the scum team has a fucking goon on it? If you do then by all means go ahead and lynch Dram, ISO us and you will see that we aren't a fan of him so that should say something about the fact that we are going to bat (sort of) for him here. I don't see a goon on the scum team with what has flipped and the fact that we have a semi-role madness situation on our hands.

[Messiah Complex]

I would have thought I was an obvious protect/watch target last night. I can see sk if it exists taking a shot at pie killing confirmed town and disabling mafia day talk.

What? Gaiden flipped Encryptor D1, it was already disabled.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I really want Bubba dead. Can we do that?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

^Other than the ability to write that paragraph and actually explain why you never die, of course



- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Hey sakura, why don't you put your vote somewhere worthwhile and lynch bubba with us. At best Dram is a goon and can only do minimal damage, at worst he is a vt like he claims to be and is just annoying. Why are you avoiding the leading wagons to persue lynch pipe dreams?

-Fishy

[Messiah Complex]

Fish thinks I'm town, desperado did a huge wallpost about why I'm scum. Can you two make up your goddamn mind and give me a summary? (Also your claim does not make much sense and after tons of questions to giffy I confirmed I have no item that is stealable so the mechanics of your role makes even less fucking sense.)

This is a lie. GIF PMed us unprompted to tell us that other players will not know if they have an item to be stolen.

The rest of those reads are all hot garbage anyway. How many fucking times did he say "if by some miracle you are town?" It's all bullshit.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Unvote
Vote: GCBC

[Messiah Complex]

Fish thinks I'm town, desperado did a huge wallpost about why I'm scum. Can you two make up your goddamn mind and give me a summary? (Also your claim does not make much sense and after tons of questions to giffy

I confirmed I have no item that is stealable so the mechanics of your role makes even less fucking sense.

)

This is a lie.

GIF PMed us unprompted to tell us that other players will not know if they have an item to be stolen.

The rest of those reads are all hot garbage anyway. How many fucking times did he say "if by some miracle you are town?" It's all bullshit.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I can honestly see why Cabd is blacklisting you.

No. Wayne is totally right. Every single one of those "reads" was designed solely to manipulate.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Saki (L-4): GoodCop_BadCop | Varsoon | Katarnia LeBlanc | Sakura Hana | dramonic

Holy shit this wagon is fucking TERRIBLE

TERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIBLE

-Des

[Messiah Complex]

If GiF did, it's entirely possible that the role PM had a mistake or implied something that was not true, and GiF felt the need to correct it before it made a difference in game-play.

Right, and GIF explicitly told us that other players are not aware that they have the item that we can steal, which is why Bubba can still be town (because he has another item relevant to his role) while Cabd cannot (because he specifically said that GIF told him he has nothing that can be stolen).

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Then I take it you'll have no problems self-voting tomorrow after my townflip? I can live with that. Sorry to see that mollie was right about you, I was hoping she wasn't so that I could tease her about it postgame.

This is so blase. Straight up going through the motions.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Call it whatever you'd like, desperado. It's your funeral.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I presume this is your way of agreeing that there is no alternative explanation for our independent mod interactions?

^Because that's what I would have expected town-cabd's first response to be. Not a lame 1v1 invitation.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Right, and GIF explicitly told us that other players are not aware that they have the item that we can steal, which is why Bubba can still be town (because he has another item relevant to his role) while Cabd cannot (because he specifically said that GIF told him he has nothing that can be stolen).

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

but there could be theft-related reasons for that.

We don't steal actual items. We steal other things that the player is not aware of that will be relevant to their flavor.

Get it?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

I might have misread 4016. Which contradiction were you referring to?

[Messiah Complex]

You're saying gif told you people wouldn't know if they have stuff to steal. GCBC says that gif has told him he has nothing to steal. <- I believe this is the contradiction you were pointing out.

It is, but then you said there wasn't one?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Uh I got a response from Gif saying my item can't be stolen so you're full of BS.

Your item is relevant to your role. We don't steal items relevant to role, we steal items relevant to flavor that the player is unaware of.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

There isn't one, because yukari told me clearly that if I had asked if a specific item can be stolen from me, she would answer. This confirms any reasonable interpretation of GCBC's statement.

No, GCBC stated that the mod confirmed they don't have any item to steal at all. How would you specifically ask if an item can be stolen if you don't know it exists?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Sooo why didn't you clarify this earlier?

Because there was nothing to clarify? Your situation was ambiguous and there was nothing to gain from revealing the information at that time.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Sooo why didn't you clarify this earlier?

Because there was nothing to clarify? Your situation was ambiguous and there was nothing to gain from revealing the information at that time.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

lush said he had an interaction that cleared someone.

Obviously this wouldn't be the theft

. Both motivates were claimed by their receivers.

Why obviously? We already mentioned that our target would know about the theft and it could affect them in some way. We made it pretty clear to Lush that we were a PR and wanted to ease their minds on us since they were so torn.

They also said they wouldn't out the person they cleared. How much you wanna bet they were talking about us? Think the fact that we mentioned we were hated for the day could have anything to do with it?

[Messiah Complex]

If you iso'd Messiah Complex and a bulk of his day 2 posts, he starts out in a blaze of glory alongside GCBC with a scumread on Muffin. He brings up himself how obvious the crumb was etc.

Goes into midday where he kinda falls off the game outside of the claim because Kagami takes over the thread with speculation and such.

Then we shift over here where all of a sudden he wants to lynch GCBC despite sharing each other's reads early in the day.

I just want to know when Messiah went from Muffin is confirmed baddie crumbed by Lush (which GCBC forwarded and MC acknowledged was a legitimate read) into his current read now which is basically "shut up GCBC ur scum"

Our thought processes have been so transparent this game that I've not even going to bother responding to this, other than to say that if you want to know when we started going away from muffin and on to cabd all you have to do is read the ISO that you (presumably?) already have.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Nacho, why don't you want to lynch Cabd?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Saki, Messiah, and Muffin all feel like low-hanging fruit.

@ Nacho: Based on what?

[Messiah Complex]

Saki, Messiah, and Muffin all feel like low-hanging fruit.

@ Nacho: Based on what?

feelings, probably

sigh

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

i could have sworn i posted 0.0

pdodge

pdodge

That is your third in the last 6ish days. Could you play the game, or at least go v/la?

[Messiah Complex]

We counter-wagoned gaiden and I was pretty happy with how that worked out.

Yeah, but that's 3/5 of the same people who flashcountered Saki a few days ago IIRC (Varsoon, Kat, Sakura)

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Only objectionable person there is sakura, the remaining people on the saki wagon are the ones I liked the least.

I really agree with that. Varsoon/Kat is probably town/scum in either configuration.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

- Des