The Fall of Gondolin Mafia: Game Over (The Tale of Gondolin)

[Espeonage]

I AM SO BUTT HURT RIGHT NOW

Reck, you've never said truer words.

Vote: Reck

Happy to see this run for a bit.

Claim: Vanilla

Discuss.

[Espeonage]

The timeline appendix of your LotR copy will give you major events and names.

[Espeonage]

Which part?

Because the first s part of an interesting pressure wagon that will be telling in how it unfolds given the players involved. And the second is out there already and will remain in minds. And I'd rather people not know if I'm going to take it back later or not.

[Espeonage]

That was my one chance wasn't it spybro?

[Espeonage]

I'd like to talk about it.

Because it's a pretty convenient vote park for you for what is an albeit rare, but not universally shunned action to start the game.

[Espeonage]

I get your premise. And I definitely understand your process.

I can't say I agree with the premise though. It works under the assumption that the claim HAS to be lynched for town to be playing correctly. Then you say I SHOULD be lynched.

Those aren't equatable terms. Not to mention that you are going against your own premise, mainly because it can easily be argued that vote parking isn't 'playing'.

[Espeonage]

No one is giving any inclination of a why I am scummy. Everyone either doesn't give a rat's backside or is never going to stop voting me.

[Espeonage]

Oh mod that was maybe not clear. I am really voting Espeonage. VOTE: Espeonage

Also a talk about Spyrex: He is one of the most orthodox, conservative players I know, so I am not surprised at all about his decision to keep his vote on Espeonage forever. I will remember that you said this though. I think it's null of spyrex. Also, spyrex always thinks I am scum, so this will be a funny game if Espeonage doesn't die, haha.

I do think Espeonage deserves death here, though.

The reck-tierce thing is just fucking stupid especially from Tierce's side, though I cannot call it scummy at this point.

Scum: Espeonage, Shadoweh

I got endgamed the last time I claimed vanilla day 1.

[Espeonage]

It was in relation to your, it'll be funny comment.

Why is it a stupid claim? No one is addressing this, and unless someone gives me reason to think otherwise it's unfounded.

I did it because I wanted to see where it would run, and figured it would shake things up. As a vanilla there isn't much weird about it. The assumption is that a majority of the playerlist will be vanilla given that this is specifically non-bastard. So therfore I figured it'd be a nice little shake up type action.

How does any of that equate to stupid claim?

[Espeonage]

Alternatively, it means that should I make myself appear unlikely to be lynched, I then force them into a dilemma. As an example.

[Espeonage]

You're also assuming I'm making sane and logical choices, something many people in this game will tell you is categorically not the case.

[Espeonage]

Do you think you are unlikely to be lynched because of your vanilla claim?

Not because of the claim. I just wanted to see reactions and wing it from there.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

Feeling less happy about this.

@ Tierce: Get in here and tell me who other than Reck is scum and I might not vote you.

[Espeonage]

Tierce, non reck scums?

[Espeonage]

Not to mention hypocritical given his previous stance that he supports a sitewide policy of Lynch all Liars.

[Espeonage]

Nice way to put the burden of proof on yourself in saying that every early day 1 vanilla claim is an anti-town action.

[Espeonage]

Reck has previously commented on my post return play as less than ordinary iirc.

But alot of stuffs comes from ongoing games, so feel free to come back to my sanity at a later date when others can cite.

@Sirdan: Nah, I caught it. I just flat out disagreed. I prefer LML, Lynch most liars.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Sirdan

This feels good. Read his posts as if everything is fake and it all makes perfect sense. Occam's Razor scumhunting.

[Espeonage]

They don't make sense so much if he's town.

[Espeonage]

I disagree. I think it:

1) Provokes reactions
2) Introduces WIFOM for the scum, making them less sure of NK targets.

Ohh I guess there was something 'useful' there.

So lolreactions and WIFOM

AWESOME SAUCE

Ready for an awesome SpyreX prediction:

Esp will never be NK'd by scum. Never ever ever. They could find out he was a three shot per day davig that kills an extra scum if he shoots scum and wont happen

Did you mean to steal my ToF fakeclaim?

Did you give thought that maybe I am an ultracool PR? It would make sense, I get lynched far too much to leave it to chance. ooooooooooooooo

@sirdan's posting. Look at how he demands to know everything, town definitely wants information yes, but scum need it. It's like how White shouldn't lose tempo because they have the foot up on black in chess.

[Espeonage]

Fuck guys, I wasn't actually suggesting I'm a PR. I was giving an example.

[Espeonage]

Hey took a couple of days off my non deadline games. (Had a bit of an irl scare, but it's all good) Going to check out the gamestate before posting properly.

[Espeonage]

Glanced at Tierce iso to see the jacob case and it's pretty thin.

Interested to know how aggressive she normally is. Mainly because it's like two people posting between regular posts and accusations. Which kinda lends itself to something being faked.

This is all just at a glance though. I'm seeing some people giving read lists so I may as well do face-value reads for now as I come to them.

[Espeonage]

Not blind, just preliminary.

[Espeonage]

We'll see!

That is not a good response, people might think you have setup knowledge.

[Espeonage]

Why is everyone so obsessed with meta? It is

THE

easiest thing to fake.

[Espeonage]

Nati's smugness/lackofcare isn't sitting right.

Unvote, Vote: Nati

[Espeonage]

At this point Esp is just fucking around and nope, I'm not letting it go.

I'm being upfront about it as much as the dark parts want to just go and be free but I'm tired of it.

You're really making me want to be a contributing member of the town. Like, I'm so motivated every time I see another of your posts.

[Espeonage]

Tomorrow, I have no gf and no distractions so this will get done then.

[Espeonage]

Do we know theres no jester? Nat looks like one.

Spyspy: agree witg chamber read. Why will I be the one to lose lylo?

Isn't best policy always to lynch a jester claim or heavily suspected jester provided they don't end the game.

[Espeonage]

Don't think Jacob is scum, js. I just don't think he's paying attention.

[Espeonage]

And Sirdan still wants blood far too much for my liking.

[Espeonage]

Chamber, give me two people to iso. Don't need to explain why you chose them. I'm just daunted by where to start and feel I can be more productive than stabbing int he dark.

[Espeonage]

I fall into the trap of always visualising people as their avvie.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: MSSK

[Espeonage]

Only voting because it's better for everyone involved if he is lynched instead of modkilled.

[Espeonage]

I dunno where to start tbh. Ask me stuff. I'm here and willing, but not motivated to reread because it's a shitfest. Contributed by me, but still a shitfest. Directed and scaled questions are more than welcomed and will count as townpoints for actively helping town get a voice.

[Espeonage]

What part of scoped was difficult to understand? What part of I'm currently over my head was difficult to understand? Detailed reads list. I don't even have two townreads to rub together.

I do need to do this though.

Unvote

And truth be told, the only reason to not lynch me is because you're waiting for me to contribute. Because I doubt anyone can really have too firm of a read on me from my meager offering.

[Espeonage]

Yes, yes, no.

Because Jacob is being Jacob and so he's null. Because Sirdan seems to want to know, manipulate and control everything, coupled with a lalalalalalanotlistening style response to criticism of his reads. Which stems from his bloodlust.

Nati seems better, he just seems bored now.

And no, MSSK isn't worth lynching. Not in the slightest.

Pedit: Wow, k. And yeah, more what I was getting at. And your logic is, you didn't use your posts effectively so pretend you have something you don't or I'm voting you. Cool man.

[Espeonage]

Because this game has completely fallen by the wayside in my mind. I've posted to try and maintain a presence, but I haven't been actively thinking about this game. I'm not joining any new games until I'm out of another (I died in one so I've dropped) which is why I'm ready to put in some effort here now.

[Espeonage]

Am I voting him? No.

I don't know who to lynch at this point.

And you are more than entitled to think that. I ave a read. I haven't seen anything to deter the read, the read stands. I'm not shoving the read down people's throats, nor am I even pushing for his lynch atm, completely because it is unlikely to get off the ground, especially if I'm pushing it from my position. I've been more than happy to get behind compromise lynches that I felt no deterrence to.

And I'm certainly not going to make up a case that I don't believe in. That's a terrible thing to even suggest tbh.

[Espeonage]

I think SSK looks good here, actually.

btw @Nat: If you're going to bring up Red Wine (Where I had no townie heat on me for a long while but we went for it because it was working, not because they felt they had to.) I'd present Marketplace in response, I feel very similar here to what I did there towards the end. You were in the game too.

TIP's vote looks forced, could be a bus as people have said, or could be a desperate shove off of a bad judgement call.

[Espeonage]

Dazed and confused is exactly what I am here.

[Espeonage]

I'd been planning to claim VT the next time I drew it before I signed up for this game.

[Espeonage]

I think SSK looks good here, actually.

btw @Nat: If you're going to bring up Red Wine (Where I had no townie heat on me for a long while but we went for it because it was working, not because they felt they had to.) I'd present Marketplace in response, I feel very similar here to what I did there towards the end. You were in the game too.

TIP's vote looks forced, could be a bus as people have said, or could be a desperate shove off of a bad judgement call.

There we go. You see, these types of posts make me think that you do have reads even if they're muddled. And I just want to know them, even if they are. So pretty please tell me your opinion of everyone?

Everything I currently have is out here. I'll post as I see it.

[Espeonage]

Stop voting Espeonage. Honestly. How many times has Espeonage been mislynched Day 1 and you still go for it.

I must say I do love your argument here, "he's been mislynched before so lets not risk it?" where would your rather your vote go.

Esp: Why did you decided that the next time you drew it you would claim VT, what made that decision?

Combination of rereading a game where I did it (Someone metacased me using it and I couldn't remember playing it.) and it was in context, so I was curious to how it would go down elsewhere.
Then after always getting lynched early I figured why not do it, I generally will go out early so why not experiment. I did not expect to survive very long with this playerlist.

[Espeonage]

This is the second time I've done it, ever.

[Espeonage]

Vote: TIP

[Espeonage]

@Sirdan: I got endgamed. But as I said, claiming VT early was in context for that game.

[Espeonage]

And setting up a strong of lynches. How many more ways you going to try to ensure all of the lynchbait dies while you shoot all the smart townies?

[Espeonage]

Wat? No i was calling him lynchbait.

Identifying you are being scummy, doesn't negate the scumminess.

[Espeonage]

TIP

[Espeonage]

I'm mainly on you because your posting screams of knowledge. And then there's all the dismissive-ness and attempts to discredit.

[Espeonage]

I'm not against a Sirdan flash wagon.

[Espeonage]

I dunno. I feel like JS would be more active if he were scum in this situation. I dunno. I could see it, but I dunno.

You do know who JacobSavage is, right?

I'm afraid I only know him from my Micro. Where he was a Jester.

To help, he lurks worse than you.

[Espeonage]

Because realistic expectations from the day. The attempt at derailing lateday wagons is noted however.

[Espeonage]

see

You know this means you die right?

[Espeonage]

Scums that realised they can't get the mislynch they want.

[Espeonage]

I'm on CES because I don't want to be on TIP--but I would flashwagon sirdan today also.

If this is happening, we need to decide fair quick, so we have time to make it happen.

[Espeonage]

I'm on CES because I don't want to be on TIP--but I would flashwagon sirdan today also.

If this is happening, we need to decide fair quick, so we have time to make it happen.

Scum trying to save own ass by means of omgus

I'm not even a lynch candidate any more.

[Espeonage]

I'm going to bed in less than 10 minutes. Are we doing Sirdan?

[Espeonage]

Quick question. I am so confused about the colouring here. Did we lynch mafia yesterday or was that some sort of town Godfather? Because it says Gondolin <rolename>.

[Espeonage]

I'd say that he was bulletproof rather than any sort of investigation shenanigans.

[Espeonage]

sirdan and TIP are my preferred lynches. Happy to stick my support elsewhere should someone present something that looks tasty.

[Espeonage]

The only reason I'm not yelling at you to shut the fuck up and actually do something useful is because 1. You're not going to listen and 2. I'd actually rather work with the rest of the town to get something done.

On that note, I'm probs going to jump on one of those vanity wagons soon.

[Espeonage]

You

[Espeonage]

If I pray to DGB will I get a gun to Daykill sirdan with?

[Espeonage]

Can I point out that sirdan is still agenda pushing and never acknowledging that it is entirely possible for him to have an incorrect read.

[Espeonage]

Because he feel better about voting SSK than sirdan because sirdan is at least useful to him if he's the scum in the two.

[Espeonage]

Mainly because it'll effect my motivation, who, of the people that aren't opposed to my lynch, actually thinks I'm more than 50% likely to flip scum, and who just wants me out of the game?

That said, Spy's post makes me less inclined to stick with my Jason town read.

[Espeonage]

Vote: sirdan

Viability attained.

Next counterpoint?

[Espeonage]

How is that a useful vote?

You don't even think I am scum. You are just omgussing me because I have caught you out, scummypants. Either that, or you are a village idiot that derp-claimed at the start of day 1, saw that it only causes a shit storm rather than do anything productive (HEY I could have told you that beforehand because its A FUCKING TERRIBLE MOVE THAT NOBODY SHOULD EVER DO EVER !) and now are frustrated and are just wildly omgussing rather than contribute ANYTHING AT ALL.

You need to die, and I will do everything in my power to kill you.

1. I have been pointing out all along how your attitude falls in line with scum thinking.
2. No I'm not omgus'ing. You been on me from get go. Any scum read I have on you at any point this game would be as omgus as now. (Hint, isn't)
3. I've been more useful than you. I've put my vote useful places, I've made comment where due.
4. Alot of people need death. I'm only at the top of two players lists, which is low for this game.

[Espeonage]

This has been low priority and I slept most of yesterday. Lemma have a look.

ABR tends to get mislynched early a hell of a lot, so not keen on going there. Haven't looked at PV so I might get on that.

[Espeonage]

^This post is surprisingly truthful.

I don't like either of the wagons which is sads.

[Espeonage]

ABR is as vote hoppy as me except he doesn't actually contribute anything, he just sheeps every bandwagon in existence. ABR may be scum.

Readas: ABR is less abrasive to town thinking straight and is therefore a more positive influence on the town as a whole. Which says alot.

[Espeonage]

PV was really quiet in marketplace 3 as well but everyone's top townread and flipped town. What's the difference. Explain that and I might come along.

[Espeonage]

The above is the best post you've made all game.

[Espeonage]

Sirdan's continued screams that we're letting scum win is just compounding a reinforcing my longstanding scumread of him.

[Espeonage]

I'm already on the biggest wagon, so....

[Espeonage]

The flip is useful regardless imo.

[Espeonage]

ABR, over here please.

[Espeonage]

The weirdest thing about this while thing is that I'm actually leaning scum on Tierce. But not enough time bro.

[Espeonage]

Actually on that note, Tierce, why the vanity wagon at this point? You came in to make a comment but not to help a lynch happen?

[Espeonage]

2 more

[Espeonage]

5 minutes and one night phase until I get to string up Majiffy for his crimes here today.

[Espeonage]

Vote: CES

[Espeonage]

CES, Tierce, Spy and someone is the scumteam.

[Espeonage]

Probably Sirdan.

[Espeonage]

tbh, the Spy read is entirely relational on Tierce actually flipping scum. But that's my stab at a scumteam from here. Spy and sirdan could easily be replaced with you and sirdan while retaining CES and Tierce.

For now, my pool is CES, Tierce and sirdan from most want to least want but still want.

[Espeonage]

If you're claimed say your randomising between the cop and another player then randomise it.
If unclaimed, then yeah. For the first day, then claim, then do the above.

[Espeonage]

About time I had accurate reads.

[Espeonage]

So the case on is me in relational based?

[Espeonage]

See this is where I attempted to do something productive and possibly try to refute my wagon and instead of working with me you just go "no, die". Can you see why this isn't fun?

[Espeonage]

Someone want to bring me up to speed. I'm confused.

[Espeonage]

Keen on doing some VCA today.

[Espeonage]

Sets from Day 1.
First four votes on Jacob wagon. Likely a single bus here. Tierce, Desperado, sirdanilot, shos
People off the Aegor wagon, wifom-y but I don't see all the scums pushing themselves together on the day 1 lynch wagon. Spyrex, Espeonage, CES, Desp

Will wade through as I'm not eating.

btw Cheers Spyspy.

[Espeonage]

That seems like something for day before lylo.

[Espeonage]

VOTE: Espeonage

We really doing this?

[Espeonage]

What even man. I made it pretty clear I'm VT and happy to stick with it.

And reason not to would be that shit can actually get done because useful flip. Don't drive this shit into the ground.

[Espeonage]

Got a little time over the next 12 hours. Lets see what I can do.

[Espeonage]

Historically through this game I've been good for Tierce, so if all else fails consider my support behind that wagon.

[Espeonage]

Don't get excited spy, this is low priority.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Tierce

Nothing really retracting from that read.

[Espeonage]

We have a spare phase, I don't see why we shouldn't lynch Tierce here.

[Espeonage]

CES seems town.

[Espeonage]

My entire list of people I'm not ok with lynching is shos, CES, Sirdan, PereV. Everyone I will happily vote for given a wagon.

[Espeonage]

Stances are weird for scum given my view on the game.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: Desp

[Espeonage]

Nah, just some clarity.

His position is bad, and less town than his wagonbuddy.

[Espeonage]

Dat Conf Bias tho.

[Espeonage]

So I was just thinking. Spy isn't allowed to get to Lylo because parking, so he needs to go either today or tomorrow. I'm completely cool with leaving it until tomorrow, but that's the go if we don't do it today.

[Espeonage]

Under two days left.

Read list, because I may as well stick it down at some point.

Scum
Spy
Desp
Tierce
Shos
Pere
CES
AD
Els
sirdan
Town

Shit changed upon actually reading. Fog has lifted yadayada. #nocoasting

Yeah Desp and Tierce are the last two scum.

[Espeonage]

Yeah Desp and Tierce are the last two scum.

I assume that's why Spyspy tops your reads list.

Unvote, vote: Espeonage

I don't think Majiffyslot investigated sirdan but his alignment should be obvious regardless.

As I said earlier. Spy needs to be tomorrow's lynch. Because it impossible to read him because of the parking.

[Espeonage]

Took me a long time to actually get in to this game.

I still don't get why Spy did what he did because it was against wincon. And sirdan, even when I realised you were town, you still make me want to pull all my hair out.