Mini 1541: The Heart of Artificial Reality (Game Over)

toolenduso · Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:12 pm

VOTE: kanye

Don't sell me apartment, I move in the lobby.

toolenduso · Post Post #111 (isolation #1) » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:10 am

@Orc: Here's the thing though -- if Venmar had stuck with his claim of hated townie then sure, I would say he's definitely town. But he retracted it. So he wasn't

really

putting himself in danger of getting policy lynched, was he?

Meta questions I now have:

1. Is Venmar the type of scum player to gambit like that? How about when he's town?
2. Is Orc being super touchy early in the game a playstyle tell or an alignment tell for him?

If anybody has answers to these already, I'll listen. But I will try to look them up myself.

toolenduso · Post Post #119 (isolation #2) » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:56 pm

In post 115, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:Get your votes out of RVS.

If you insist.

UNVOTE: Kanye
VOTE: Orc

L-2, I think.

toolenduso · Post Post #146 (isolation #3) » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:40 am

In post 120, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:Is this pressure or do you actually think I'm scummy

Why would I pressure you if I didn't find you scummy?

In post 121, Kazekirimaru wrote:Well, why does sticking with a fake hated townie claim make someone more town?

It wouldn't if it was fake. I would believe it for pretty much as long as he would stick with the claim is what I'm saying, because it wouldn't make sense for scum to keep a hated claim up for very long.

In post 121, Kazekirimaru wrote:
In post 119, toolenduso wrote: If you insist.

UNVOTE: Kanye
VOTE: Orc

L-2, I think.
Do you have a reason for this?

Yes. It will be in my next post.

In post 140, Om of the Nom wrote:Admittedly I did leave out one post in between the first two (it was his reason for the vote) and it's kinda taken out of context as presented, but if u look at it in the context it kinda comes out of the blue and idk man i just get irked by the antagonising stance he is taking like i dont feel like it was townie talk going on in his mind at the time

Welcome to Kaze's playstyle. I've seen him start games like this twice as town. I don't know if he also does it as scum but this feels pretty much exactly the same as when he was town.

In post 142, MTD wrote:VOTE: tool
His only somewhat relevant post were some meta questions he said he would answer later, but no actual opinions or inquisitive questions directed at players. That is either too lazy or keeping low profile.

It's laziness/RL.

In post 144, Kazekirimaru wrote:In fact, if anyone has meta on town-tool, that'd be cool. I've played with him twice and he was scum both times. Save me another metadip.

Unfortunately because of ongoing games, Mini 1505 is still the most relevant town game for me I can provide, and I think you've already looked at that one.

toolenduso · Post Post #147 (isolation #4) » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:56 am

OK so orcinus case. I'm not saying this is the strongest ever but orc was the first one to raise a red flag for me and a good place to start.

In post 15, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
In post 11, FakeGod wrote:
Vote: Orci

Litmus test.
ok but i have nothing to respond to so this is a pretty shitty test

just a suggestion: next time you want to pressure me, actually pressure me, don't do this kind of shit because it's useless as jack

This was super early on in the game and really, really defensive. No, I haven't done my meta dip on orc yet, but plan on doing it today. If he always acts like this then this point drops.

In post 44, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
In post 43, phokdapolees wrote:
In post 42, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:
In post 34, phokdapolees wrote:Acting scummy in order to "get the game rolling"
So since this is just a flat-out lie and misrep of everything

1) this was not what i was trying to do
2) this is not why om is towning me
1. How is saying your RVS vote is "now serious" out of nowhere not scummy/an attempt to get the game started?
2. Why is he then?
1 it was not of nowhere. I've played with kaze enough to know his town rvs and his schedule. He wasn't here when I expected him to be. Also I just assume that you don't know what a slash actually does, since your argument was scummy+ trying to get game started, and you used scummy or trying to get game started
2) for trying to get the game rolling, not for purposely acting scummy

This post was made after orc switched his vote to phok. So if he thinks kaze is so scummy, why did he switch to phok?

Also, the point about kaze's "town schedule" is super weak and could be reaching to support a case he doesn't actually believe in because he knows kaze is town. (that's the scum explanation)

In post 102, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:In retrospect I can't tell if this is dirt throwing or if this is just an attempt at a witty comment, but it certainly is counterproductive to town getting out of rvs

probably bad town though. not part of my case.

^this was in reference to phok. Including a point he doesn't think makes phok look scummy as part of a case against phok makes it seem like orc was looking for things to incriminate phok instead of seeing things and then building a case against him based on that. Scum explanation would be him picking a target first, then building a case afterward.

...and just generally being really defensive. Again, this could be playstyle or personality instead of alignment indicative.

Now, for an interesting side note that's come out of pressure on orc:

In post 32, Om of the Nom wrote:I feel like #21 was an attempt to get the game rolling tbh. When you consider the fact that when Kaze asked questions back to Orci and he didn't answer, it kinda feels like he never really intended to go anywhere with it to begin with.

In post 36, Om of the Nom wrote:idk about Kaze but I think I'm leaning more towards Orci being town bc of it

In post 90, Om of the Nom wrote:
In post 46, Venmar wrote:
In post 36, Om of the Nom wrote:idk about Kaze but I think I'm leaning more towards Orci being town bc of it
out of curiosity why are you defending/shielding orc this early when you could let this run its course and get a more confident read out his reactions?
I like to think he's town so I will stick up for that.

In post 140, Om of the Nom wrote:I dont enjoy the idea of orci being scum i rlly dont ok so can u guys stop calling him scum thanks

Why are you buddying orcinus so hard, Om of the Nom?

toolenduso · Post Post #151 (isolation #5) » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:08 pm

Cool so that didn't answer my question at all.

Why do you think orcinus is town? Why are you making a big deal out of thinking that he's town? When you say "I don't enjoy the idea of orci being scum," is that another way of saying "I think he's town" or is it something else?

As for this,

In post 149, Om of the Nom wrote:I find it a little odd that he's placing Orc at L-2 while openly discrediting his own case.

What I'm saying is that I know it's not worth lynching him over yet because it's an early-game case but I think it's a good place to start.

And why should I have reservations about putting somebody at L-2? I think you can get a lot of useful information out of doing so.

@MTD: I don't have many strong reads right now. Orc and Om stand out as scummy while Kaze seems town, but the rest I don't have too much of a read on. I'll have a better idea about Venmar after I look at some other games of his, I think.

toolenduso · Post Post #157 (isolation #6) » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:45 pm

In post 154, Venmar wrote:Why did you open up with doubt on your own case? That's not a good sign :/

See here:

In post 151, toolenduso wrote:What I'm saying is that I know it's not worth lynching him over yet because it's an early-game case but I think it's a good place to start.

In post 152, Om of the Nom wrote:Answering your question the way you'd have intended would mean admitting to buddying, which is not what I'm doing.

Obviously I didn't expect you to respond by saying "I'm buddying orc because I'm scum who wants to associate myself with him lololololol." I was letting you know by way of wording that I think you're buddying him.

In post 152, Om of the Nom wrote:I don't enjoy the idea of Orci being scum means I think he's town wasn't that obvious

No. It read more like "he is my friend don't lynch him plz" to me.

In post 152, Om of the Nom wrote:I'm not saying you should have reservations about putting somebody at L-2, I'm just saying it's surprising for you to do so when you have claimed to not be confident of your own case on him.

And I'm saying that putting somebody at L-2 is a good way to get information. Like seeing if somebody else jumps in to defend them, for instance.

toolenduso · Post Post #159 (isolation #7) » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:51 pm

OK, so orcinus is probably town. He seriously acts just like this when he's town (defensive, angry, aggressive) and seems to be more reasonable when scum.

Venmar is also likely town. He

did

claim PGO as a cop (or some sort of investigative role, the flavor made it hard to interpret) in a game, and seems to be more reserved when scum (not voting quite as often, not pulling gambits).

So it's time to

UNVOTE: orcinus
VOTE: Om of the Nom

...because his early defensiveness of orc read like trying to associate himself with that slot. Also something about the way he constructed his cases against me and kaze pinged. I'll go through them again at a later time and see if I can figure out what it was.

toolenduso · Post Post #167 (isolation #8) » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:38 pm

In post 160, Selkies wrote:ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID

In post 161, Selkies wrote:i just read your other posts and yes yes you are

i think tool is just going to be one of those town reads that i just ignore for the whole game

Thanks for the personal attack! Do it again and I'll get you kicked out of the game!

How about instead of blandly insulting me you tell me what it is that I did wrong?

By the way, every time you address me now for the rest of the game I'm going to include "I thought you were going to ignore me?" in the post.

toolenduso · Post Post #193 (isolation #9) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:27 am

In post 177, Om of the Nom wrote:
In post 167, toolenduso wrote:By the way, every time you address me now for the rest of the game I'm going to include "I thought you were going to ignore me?" in the post.
If you actually do this then brace yourself for the onslaught you're gonna get from me.

On the MTD wagon: I want phok and FG to weigh in on it.

toolenduso · Post Post #199 (isolation #10) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:59 am

Here's another town game I was in that just ended today: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=33316

And here are the games I looked at for Orctown:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27515

Orcscum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=24292

Venmartown:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30724 (in which he claimed PGO when he was actually an investigative role)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

and Venmarscum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=27099
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=25567

toolenduso · Post Post #227 (isolation #11) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:21 pm

Yeezy. What you think of Om? And why?

FakeGod. What's your take on Mr. West?

I was starting to lean away from keeping my vote on him and then he continued associating himself with orcinus. Also his vote on MTD felt...off. Like he was trying to come up with something original to say about MTD so he wouldn't look like he was just sheeping.

I played on a scumteam with phok before (kaze was in that game too) and he actually contributed more/gave more convincing reads than he is here. He lurks regardless of alignment.

I don't like MTD at all but I'm keeping my vote where it is for now because I want to see more talk about Om/from Om.

toolenduso · Post Post #228 (isolation #12) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:23 pm

*keeping my vote on Om, not Kanye. Om is associating himself with orc and Om's vote on MTD felt off. That's what I was saying.

toolenduso · Post Post #230 (isolation #13) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:28 pm

Kanyeknowsbest.

Also known as Yeezus.

toolenduso · Post Post #238 (isolation #14) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:18 pm

@Kaze: Why do you trust

FieldGoal

FakeGod?

@FakeGod: Thanks! Now what do you think about Om of the Nom?

@phok: Your vote's still on orcinus. Are you still scumreading him? What about MTD?

toolenduso · Post Post #239 (isolation #15) » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:19 pm

In post 233, kanyeknowsbest wrote:thasts me.

om seemes pretty genuine in his posting and it lines up w. my previous experience with him.

Could you link? I'd like to see that.

toolenduso · Post Post #266 (isolation #16) » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:56 am

In post 242, kanyeknowsbest wrote:
In post 239, toolenduso wrote:
In post 233, kanyeknowsbest wrote:thasts me.

om seemes pretty genuine in his posting and it lines up w. my previous experience with him.
Could you link? I'd like to see that.
itwas gay mafia 2. granted that was like a year ago

Actually, Om's posting in that game seems different from this game in that he seemed a bit more aggressive and more humorous than he does now. Granted, I haven't done a total read-through but that's my first impression. What about his play in that game do you think matches up with this one?

@FakeGod

: Could you please point me to your last two completed town games that aren't Duskville?

toolenduso · Post Post #271 (isolation #17) » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:27 pm

In post 269, Om of the Nom wrote:Can I just say that I have become a radically different person since like 3 months ago, let alone back in 2012.

So...you have literally only been in one completed game in the last three months and you were town in it. But comparing that game to the last scum game I could find (an open, which started in August), this game looks more like your scum meta (voting more frequently and using vague/gut reasoning to explain reads). So that makes me feel more comfortable keeping my vote where it is. I'm not saying I did a thorough analysis or anything, but this game does seem more like scumYou.

toolenduso · Post Post #276 (isolation #18) » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:50 pm

Well that's the thing. It's organized by forum instead of chronologically.

Eh, it's fine. I'm entering my weekend anyway so I should have time to look myself.

toolenduso · Post Post #284 (isolation #19) » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:39 pm

Well....I didn't end up with as much time as I thought to go through FakeGod's meta, but I did get to skim through one scum game and one town game. And I noticed something a little strange from one of them. FG posted this in a mini normal he was in in November:

In post 145, FakeGod wrote:
In post 126, AbboTT wrote:He has to be at least in the top 3 scum-reads right now.
How the heck do you already have a top 3 scum-reads 6 pages in?

How many scum reads do you even have?

Generally in that game he seemed hesitant to vote and not too sure of himself. In this one:

In post 206, FakeGod wrote:It's true that not keeping track of your reads is anti-town, but MTD has shown enough analysis and activity in his posts that I rather not policy lynch him today.

I want this lynch today if possible.

Vote: Phok

He seems much more sure of himself and much more willing to vote.

Not enough to make me change my vote yet, and I agree with Kaze that Om's insistence we not pay attention to his meta because he's a different person is unsettling.

toolenduso · Post Post #309 (isolation #20) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:38 am

I'm just waitin'.

(waitin')

Waitin' on the phok to change.

toolenduso · Post Post #313 (isolation #21) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:16 pm

In post 312, Kazekirimaru wrote:Hey

I'm a jester.

Nuh-uh.

toolenduso · Post Post #315 (isolation #22) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:29 pm

In post 314, Kazekirimaru wrote:Am too.

toolenduso · Post Post #345 (isolation #23) » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:12 pm

Bah zip zoopity doowop diddy.

toolenduso · Post Post #466 (isolation #24) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:03 am

Yaaaaaaaaaay thanks for carrying this through to the end and winning it for town guys! And thanks for killing me N1 scum team, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :3 (that's not a sarcastic comment).

Also -- is this one of the shortest Minis ever played?

toolenduso · Post Post #467 (isolation #25) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:04 am

And do we get to read the scum qt?

toolenduso · Post Post #472 (isolation #26) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:21 am

In post 470, kanyeknowsbest wrote:apologies all, my heart really wasnt in this one but i couldnt say no 2 bert when he asked me to play

Hey, you had me going in the dead qt. I totally thought it was FakeGod until Venmar gave his investigation result.

And thanks to Bert for a well-modded game! I especially liked how quick you were at posting flips.

toolenduso · Post Post #474 (isolation #27) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:41 am

In post 466, toolenduso wrote:Also -- is this one of the shortest Minis ever played?

The answer to this question is no.