Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[TierShift]

YESSSSS
emerald you are going down buddy!

Will catch up now

[TierShift]

Thanks for the link!
I'm probably not going to read it; just be obviously town and we will get along just fine.

He did that last game and coasted to a win as scum

Early game reads:
emerald town: is putting himself much more in the spotlights than he did in his scumgame+feels genuine.
Ika town: really trying to hunt but well...uh walling is not necessary. Great to see someone try, though.

Not seeing much scummy intent anywhere yet but I might reread some more.

VOTE: nacho
Get out of spectator mode.

[TierShift]

Nah, ika is town. Just look at the total lack of self-conciousness.
As for bjc buddying, define buddying.

Bjc, you got any experience? Sure seems like you do. Why do you think emerald is scum?
Abbott, why do you say wagons are the way out of RVS, then place a lone vote?

[TierShift]

It awfully jumps out at you, but the substance isn't awful. Why is it scummy again?

If you want a wagon, vote nacho, IC wagons are cool.

[TierShift]

Hey, nacho. Good to have you in here. I agree that there maybe is a slight hint of fencesitting in abbott's play, but it's way too early to do your famous cases and get all these newbies to believe you have found scum already. They see you a a god, yaknow

Ika, agreed, bjc's willingness to sheep is quite bothersome.

Bjc, why do you sheep so much?

[TierShift]

Abbott, why do you say wagons are the way out of RVS, then place a lone vote?

Fair question, but you got it backwards. I placed a vote, started a wagon that eventually ran all the way up to L-1, and _then_ said that wagons are the way out of RVS.

Don't get it twisted, boo.

I didn't twist shit, you do. You placed a lone vote while expressing wagons are good. Why didn't you vote emerald, the wagon?
Why did you unvote-revote nacho without anything in between?
Your fencesitting on rayfrost's ika read troubles me. You are avoiding saying things that can be used against you later which is horrid, you post a lot, but you don't really participate.

That said, my vote on nacho still sits just fine because of the damn lazy case on abbott.

Rayfrost, you might consider not walling and especially not just repeating everything you said just before because it's freaking annoying. I think very little in your read is an actual scumtell and the part that is, the hopping around to sheep anything that comes off, is something more appliccable to bjc than to ika, because in ika's case it at least looks genuine.

[TierShift]

Yeah okay now stop fencesitting on rayfrosts ika read and give some damn opinions on someone else than nacho
P-edit:
Sorry, I hate walls. But, if you really want to, go ahead, but there's a chance I might skip them.

I have no idea why ika put you as null-town, don't ask me. But I don't think there's a double standard. You have not been pretending to be in touch with this game, you had hardly posted at all at that point. Nacho has posted but he did it in an observing manner rather than an involved one, which was not to my liking (and possibly not to ika's either)

I don't think 'coasting' is a valid scumtell, which by the way is not what I accused nacho of. And I don't agree that there isn't content to talk about. You are talking about content, I'm talking about content, nacho is too. But I don't like the way in which he does that.

You completely misrep my response to nacho's read. What I tried to say is that I found the content of his read rather weak but that he presents his cases in such a convincing way that many will sheep. I personally think the case was lazy and that nacho can do much more if he's town.

About my bjc read, I'm not sure about him. He puts in effort, but he's just sheeping everything that comes along. Give me some more time here.

For now, I don't have strong scumreads. I think abbott would take the top spot for reasons in the previous post.
Then nacho and that's where I'm keeping my vote because I want to see more from him.

[TierShift]

Bjc, I understand why you would want to lynch someone and we are definitely gonna do that. But would you lynch really anyone? Not just your scumreads? Do you have any or are you still hopping?

[TierShift]

Explain the rayfrost read.

[TierShift]

Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does

not

mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.

I don't really understand all the scumreads ika has been getting. I might say I'm annoyed by his posting but it does feel genuine.

I don't particularly like LMB's entrance, just restating the case that emerald did before. Do give that buttload of evidence, though.

[TierShift]

Hardcore defending at the start of day 1 usually means they are not scumbuddies, though.

[TierShift]

Heh. It's actually pretty hard to genuinely defend a scumbuddy, whose scummy things you can see and need to avoid and then make it seem like you didn't.

So, who are you gonna defend starting now?

[TierShift]

I'm a little bit behind. I read through quickly and this is where I stand:
Ika/ed town
Abbott null/town- the fight with nacho sounded genuine+trying to scumhunt. Him fencesitting early on still slightly bugs me.
Nacho null/town- I'm having a hard time reading and I don't think that will change soon, props at least for the effort
LmB not sure on yet
Robw zero content
Bjc null- this guy was leaning town for me until 253, the unwillingness to vote rob, which contradicts completely with what he has done so far
Rayfrost scum-I'm terribly unconvinced by the ika case which is mostly based off of incertainty in reads and I feel it might be done just for towncred. Now the vote on robw which is meh.

Having said that I feel that robw is an easy wagon where scum might be parking their vote.

VOTE: rayfrost

[TierShift]

Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does

not

mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.

I don't really understand all the scumreads ika has been getting. I might say I'm annoyed by his posting but it does feel genuine.

I don't particularly like LMB's entrance, just restating the case that emerald did before. Do give that buttload of evidence, though.

Im reading this post and this is one of those post that rubs me wrong after reading others and responses, Especialy the sencond part about me. It almost feels like you are trying to fencesit here. The last sentance really rubs me wrong if he is jk or think that his breadcumb for fk is not good. I personally disliked it as well due tot he fact on how stuble it was and how he expected everyone to see it. But i see where hes was coming from now.

I didn't think his entrance, the JK crumb, was particularly alignment indicative and I don't understand why nacho and abbott do. I was talking about his 193, which was uninspired and echoing what emerald said before.
And I don't believe I'm fencesitting about you, I have said that I think you are town and that I don't understand the scumreads. Is that fencesitting to you?

Hardcore defending at the start of day 1 usually means they are not scumbuddies, though.

Really? how so? can you elaborate on that?

Scumbuddies want to avoid attracting attention to them being a scumteam. Plus, if it is obvious that the defending is not genuine, then upon a flip of one player, the other one will be heavily suspected as scum.

[TierShift]

More on why Rayfrost is scum:
First he attacks ika, tunneling in but also continuously calling out others for lurking/not posting content. (Which IS a scumtell) What he doesn't do, however, is trying to scumhunt outside of ika. (Nother one) I see a few questions, but they are mostly about his own case and trying to recruit for his case. Now, after he let ika off the hook (because no one had been convinced) but still thinking he is scum (?), he goes onto a lurker, so from someone he is convinced he is scum, onto a nullread lurker? Doesn't make any town sense to me.

[TierShift]

Is the idea that he was trying to pretend like he was a PR?

Why would a PR use "JK" as a breadcrumb?

seek reactions? see if anyone reads inbeween the lines. really you have to ask the person themself.

well after all that i feel like nacho will give us the most information.

VOTE: nacho

his slotting most ppl as town for his reasoning are plausable but some of his post are just out there and seem off. His reads give indication that he knows that they are town and he is doing it to try to keep distance. He also has not given us anything on timeshift as if hes tring to distance himself from him while giveing reads about everyone else atm.

my decision is 99.9% final on nacho/timshift.

timesift also seems to have the same type of posting where he says ray is "misguided town" and tbh i belive it, but if thats the case, how would he exactly know or be so accraute about something like that?

im willing to go at these 2 atm.

Very big lol at the bolded
I never said ray is misguided town?
Your case on both me and nacho makes no sense. Explain further please.

[TierShift]

Finally, why LMB's breadcrumb is town:

As town, this whole scenario is dropping a fake crumb and then creating a fake reaction test off this fake crumb and then attacking a fake experienced off this fake crumb and off this fake reaction test is all for towncred. There's no way he could expect the lynch to go through on RayFrost considering having no real reason to call him scum over others, and I doubt he took the time to plan this out as town considering its a lot of effort for not a lot of gain and a fucking crazy thing to think of. I think as town he may have crumbed, and held onto it for later so that he could bolster a JK claim later; I don't think that new town would plan out a gambit this elaborate for towncred and nothing but towncred right out of the gate.

Hey, look, I replaces every scum with town and it still works (except for the scum crumb part, but hey, that part is just hypothetical)! I don't get the rayfrost part rhat is in there, though. What I want to say, I don't really get the argument as to why it is necessarily from town.

Unvote, Vote: RobinWilliams

I am clearly never going to get support for the ika lynch because everyone just sees it as his ~playstyle~ (I really really

really

hate how much my games have been "rayfrost made a good case but it's untrue because it's ~playstyle~" lately).

And I am willing to vote here for [Reasons].

I very rarely use meta and meta alone to shut a read down completely, but when meta is extremely definitive, I go with it. I also find that his latest posts sound extremely genuine and don't really care how much he's contradicting himself as a result.

'Meta' just like that isn't an argument. You can't just say 'I disagree because meta'. Explain it and give examples and tell me what's different between ray's town and scum game and gimme links and shit.

[TierShift]

UNVOTE:

Uhhhh...I think I might have been mistaken about ray being scum....that rant of posts was incredibly townish and denying most of my accusations (not scumhunting, taking the easy road, trying to paint only lurkers black), even though he did not address my post.

I have to say 279 is incredibly scummy but I'm just gonna take one step back now before hopping around even more.

LMB, what do you think about nacho so far?

[TierShift]

VOTE: bjc

[TierShift]

Ye dun vote my scumbuddy u bastard

[TierShift]

The above being said, I actually feel a lot better about this than rob.

The most major points against bjc, in my opinion, are his complete flexibility, and lack of proactivity when it comes to scumhunting. He's been an almost completely passive recipient of the game. He posts, but many of them give the feeling of "I have posted content, now you guys can use this bone to go away and ignore me." How much follow up has he had on

anything

he's done this game? I'm not going to lie, he's got posts that are content-heavy in terms of giving reads and opinions, but almost all of them are one-offs. Like a butterfly settling on a flower without pollinating. Drop here, deposit opinion, fly away and deposit opinion elsewhere, rinse repeat. There's no commitment to anything, and there's a line between having shifting reads and a long list of votes by convenience. I feel like he's crossed that line.

This. It's good. It made me think.
And now the lazy emerald vote which doesn't go much further than 'no content'

[TierShift]

Sheeping a good case=weak?

P-edit: nope no scumbuddy intreaction there sorry

[TierShift]

good case

[TierShift]

Sheeping a good case=weak?

P-edit: nope no scumbuddy intreaction there sorry

I was asking others, not you. Your answer is obvious. Care to clarify why it has no chance of scum buddy interaction then.

You can say every interaction is a scum interaction and then ask to disprove it. Burden of proof is on you my friend. First point out why you think it is a scum interaction, then ask for people's opinions on that.

[TierShift]

Sorry then.

Fwiw your rob vote is weaker, do something with your vote. What do you think your vote on rob will accomplish?

[TierShift]

Sorry then.

Fwiw your rob vote is weaker, do something with your vote. What do you think your vote on rob will accomplish?

At this point? Lynching scum.
It amazes me that everyone else apparently thinks that there's a chance of this guy being town.

He's null and you aren't gonna convince me otherwise on the basis of 4 empty posts.

[TierShift]

Why do you think he playing the way he is?
Do you not think the posting to avoid replacement is a little bit sketchy despite apparently having no interest in the game whatsoever?

Lurking =/= scummy get over it

Yeah. I mean it's hard to base a scum read on lurking alone.

@Nacho: What would Rob's his lynch teach us after the flip?

That's the big reason why I'm not pushing it.

Also this.

[TierShift]

I take that back. There IS scum on my wagon. The question is whether or not it's the whole team or one of them plus RobW.

Cool why

[TierShift]

Sorry then.

Fwiw your rob vote is weaker, do something with your vote. What do you think your vote on rob will accomplish?

At this point? Lynching scum.
It amazes me that everyone else apparently thinks that there's a chance of this guy being town.

He's null and you aren't gonna convince me otherwise on the basis of 4 empty posts.

Why do you think he playing the way he is?
Do you not think the posting to avoid replacement is a little bit sketchy despite apparently having no interest in the game whatsoever?

You didn't answer my questions.

Maybe he's like, a stupid newbie?

[TierShift]

I take that back. There IS scum on my wagon. The question is whether or not it's the whole team or one of them plus RobW.

Cool why

Lol. The person who doesn't offer much substance making a "cool why" post as if I haven't offered anything before.

Same as to ika before, burden of proof is on you, not on me.

[TierShift]

What do you mean by the stupid newbie comment?

It means they are irrational. Posting like that is super null in newbies.

[TierShift]

The "proof" that I'm scum is based on a feeling you're sheeping. Tell me again why I'm scum?

I think you misunderstand what burden of proof means. You need to explain why the wagon on you is scummy, not write incoherent stuff that has nothing to do with that.

As for how I feel on you, I believe I have stated it previously and I'm not gonna keep on repeating myself. Reread if you want to know.

[TierShift]

Spoiler: lol

"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten

Can this guy just read my mind

You say that him posting fluff every 2 days is scum not wanting to scumhunt. Which is what a rational human being would do. Newbies are irrational, hence.

Another explanation:
He has no idea how this game works and he is just hanging around here. In time he will get bored and get replaced. What he's done so far is the epitome of null so just let this idea go.

Why is emerald his buddy? Because he is also lurking?

Maybe you should not play in newbie games if you think lutking is scummy.

[TierShift]

Uh in 331 I try to imply that I thoroughly agree with ray's 314, if that wasn't clear. The sudden change because reasons stated in posts you quoted, I think I was wrong before and I'm right now.
I think that feeling is very much applicable to you and not to emerald.

You still don't explain why there is scum on your wagon.

[TierShift]

Because one person that IS scum is voting me for sure (emeraldemon).

Nah.

Uh in 331 I try to imply that I thoroughly agree with ray's 314, if that wasn't clear. The sudden change because reasons stated in posts you quoted, I think I was wrong before and I'm right now.
I think that feeling is very much applicable to you and not to emerald.

You still don't explain why there is scum on your wagon.

a bigger burden of proof would be is if he flips town, if he flips scum hteres nothing to prove, here if he were to flip town it would come ot he burden of you.

Burden of proof means that the one that makes a claim has to prove it's true, not have the other prove it's untrue (which is usually impossible). I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Nacho, explain emeraldscum.

[TierShift]

That's not exactly what Burden of Proof mean, but this isn't AP Language class so I'll pass on that.


Look at AbboTT's reason for why I'm scum, then change the name of which the post is addressing from bjc to emeraldemon, and you have it!

Why did you say "if you all are so hungry for a lynch, why don't you lynch Rob"?

I missed that wow.
Come state intent with us nacho.

[TierShift]

That's not exactly what Burden of Proof mean, but this isn't AP Language class so I'll pass on that.


Look at AbboTT's reason for why I'm scum, then change the name of which the post is addressing from bjc to emeraldemon, and you have it!

Doesn't work at all for emerald, sorry.

I do hope he'll be back to say more after the weekend tho

[TierShift]

So we've come to lynching lurkers over scummy players, then?

[TierShift]

If you consider the fact that everyone has the same chance of being scum in a given game, why the hell would you choose the active guy over the inactive guy?

ESPECIALLY when it's been posted by others that they're fine with lynching the inactive guy!?

Nope, scum lynch>policy lynch. Why are you pushing so hard for a policy lynch all of a sudden?
Everyone has the same chance of being scum before anything is posted. After there is content that is just a ridiculous statement.

Tiershift (Albeit uncooperative/lazy as fuck)

not lazy

I did one pretty recently, but:
town
ika
ed
LMB

abbott
ray
nacho
rob

bjc
scum

[TierShift]

@My list: I have no idea why ika wants 3 scumreads but sure, draw the line between ray and nacho then.

@Bjc: I don't give a shit if you use the word if or not, you are definitely voicing your approval of a PL pretty heavily, even if you don't vote rob.

[TierShift]

@Bjc:

Why are you trying so hard to be useless to the town?

[TierShift]

My first list was legitimate but then I needed to have 3 scumreads for some reason so after putting rob and nacho down with bjc it wasn't

[TierShift]

My first list was legitimate but then I needed to have 3 scumreads for some reason so after putting rob and nacho down with bjc it wasn't

not sure if you just scum, or just noob.

you understand the flaw with just one scum read right?

So I should invent scumreads? That makes no sense.

[TierShift]

IIoA isn't what you think it is. He's making comments about how these players are scumbuddies, which is analysis.

His lack of posting anything half-decent of late is concerning, however, but not necessarily alignment-indicative.

[TierShift]

not a scumtell.

[TierShift]

If you're gonna refer to it some following day to catch scum imma be mad.

[TierShift]

If you're gonna refer to it some following day to catch scum imma be mad.

teirshift has the biggest null-scum read and should most likely be the flip becasue of the huge uncertenty and will most likely yeild the most info

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TierShift

This is not how it works. Scumhunting is not something that can be quantified like this.

[TierShift]

If you consider the fact that everyone has the same chance of being scum in a given game, why the hell would you choose the active guy over the inactive guy? ESPECIALLY when it's been posted by others that they're fine with lynching the inactive guy!?

You are using rob's inactivity to try and escape a lynch pretty blatantly.

[TierShift]

I make short posts, yes, but that's not because I'm disinterested. I think you're scum, I have stated why and placed my vote. I don't have much to comment right now, if you want me to explain something or want to ask something feel free.

[TierShift]

Because he has offered nothing to relieve my suspicions and keeps acting survivalistic as fuck.

I don't stall the robw lynch, I disapprove of it entirely. If we really really have nothing better at deadline and no one else wants to lynch bjc, I will hammer rob but not happily.

P-edit:
I suppose my next biggest suspicion would be nacho, for his big weak case on a lurker who is unlikely to defend himself. Lynching lurkers is not the way to go in newbie games and nacho knows that.

What do you mean with equal chance of being scum?
Everyone starts out with a 25% chance of being scum (8 other players/2 scum) and I have seen nothing from robw to chance this percentage, while I think bjc has a much bigger chance to flip scum.
This equal percentage talk is awful.

[TierShift]

You're scum because:
You don't actually try to scumhunt, just sheep everything that comes by, then not actually believe in your votes and fly elsewhere in the blink of an eye. You don't actively pressure anyone, just place a vote and run off asap again. You first disapproved of voting robW in 253, but now you try and push the rob wagon just to get votes off you (which you aren't even hiding). And now you're attacking another lurker for actually nothing and then when I tell you your case is weak, your response is "I view his play as scummy", which is more non-scumhunting.

I feel very disappointed with the actual content of your posts and you have just been spewing words and words without actual meaning.
So, after my accusations on your part of not scumhunting, you haven't done any more scumhunting and have displayed a very survivalistic attitude.
Which is waaaaay more scummy than what rob has shown so far.

[TierShift]

then why did you reidicule my scum hunting tequneque? my list idea. right now you had the most null from everyone. Really if we were to lynch anyone it should be you. you have played middleman and not building case on bjc.

is he playing survivalism? yes
could he be scum? yes
is he scum? heck if i know
will lynching him yeild information? most likely

his listing:

town: 0
null: 3
scum: 4

you have a more diverse one though

TierShift

town: 1
null: 4
scum: 3

yours is more scattered so your flip would yeild more info is how i see it. i wouldnt mind seeing a bjc flip either but im much more intrested in your flip then his or robs

Why do nulls yield more information than scum?

And I think this scumhunting technique is bad, because you scumhunt based on behaviour, not based on (mostly biased and with a certain propaganda) behaviour analyses from others

[TierShift]

For the last time, why am I being anti-town and unhelpful?

[TierShift]

Spoiler: all the survivalistic stuff

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

I take that back. There IS scum on my wagon. The question is whether or not it's the whole team or one of them plus RobW.

So we've come to lynching lurkers over scummy players, then?

I'm willing to wager that..

Some of the players voting on me are just voting me to keep a wagon going, and not because they really think I'm scum.
The rest are either scum or sheeping.

It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum

He's got a point here...

And why haven't you unvoted if you feel my point is valid?

I'm leaving this quote wall out so there is no excuse when ED ignores me.

It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum

He's got a point here...

And yet, unless I've missed something, you still have your vote on me.

256Hard to put my finger on, but bjc sounds so submissive all the time, feels bad to me.

This seems to be common with those who feel I'm scum. Nothing really definitive about me being scum, just feels and that is pretty much it.

Also:

I'm just dying to hear why I'm probably scum.

This is directed at emeraldemon. You tell me why I'm scum. Don't direct me to a post already made; I want your case made now.

dooes anyone else find it odd how non else had intention to hammer yet?

Yes, I for one do find that odd.

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

Getting scared bro? That just confirms my read on bcj. Obvious scum escaping his lynch by attempting to convince us to inactive lynch Rob.

Look, I can't imagine scum making posts like this, so I'm gonna assume you are just tunneling on me and just doing all around bad town play.

i would want bjc to claim though. its rather disturbing that hes l-1 and has not claimed

Why do I need to claim? There is no serious intent to hammer on me. I don't need to potentially hurt the town via claiming.

start with "what makes you so comfortable making him l-1?"

Well look whose talking here. *facepalm* First, what makes

you

so comfortable putting nacho at l-1?

What about "ninja-hammering" huh?

i didnt phrase it like he did. i said "im l-1ing him"

Also notice how ika puts bcj at null even though bcj has a shitload of content.

becasue his last few post are looking quite scumym and screams survivalism

Let me help convey what I'm trying to convey.

I don't need to survive to achieve my wincon, though it really helps if I do live on. I'm just trying to point out how dumb it is that there are, ATM, two serious lynching candidates (if you look at where votes are right now). One doesn't help the town at all and probably won't be replaced (hmmmmm) and the other is a valuable asset to the town.

If you consider the fact that everyone has the same chance of being scum in a given game, why the hell would you choose the active guy over the inactive guy?

ESPECIALLY when it's been posted by others that they're fine with lynching the inactive guy!?

All of these posts are incredibly survivalistic, by pushing lurker wagons and discrediting the people on your wagon.

[TierShift]

ika, how do you feel about my case on bjc?

I'm thinking your way of scumhunting with that activity was useless and I have said why in 510

[TierShift]

I have no idea how this is gonna help us.

P-edit:
next time announce that we are at

LYNCH -1

[TierShift]

rob is most likely town due to the higher count of scum then null read. however does work vice versa

I do not follow.

[TierShift]

rob is most likely town due to the higher count of scum then null read. however does work vice versa

I do not follow.

im doing this off the top of my head with the numbers

we have 2 scums and 7 towns in this 9 player game

the players gave 2 nulls and 5 scum counts on him with 0 reasoning.

doesnt that seem like its a tell that hes really town that a majority of players are scum reading him atm but not voting him?

No, why does the fact that many think he's scum but are not voting him make him town?

everyone else is focused on bjc right now and you are in tunnel mode on him. his post are survialistic now, and if hes town he should be giving out reads one people and point out the scums on his trian.

my thing on you is you keep pushing he scum, others are kinda meh with it. how i see it is that if he flips town, you would be next to be looked at due to pushing his train so hard and wanting to stop the rob train so hard.

if people are willing to switch votes to you, i think you would give most information due to how many have you nulled in reads. your actions also on your unwillingness to by lynch should alos be an indicator

What's 'by lynch'?

[TierShift]

No, actually scum don't quickhammer on this site.

Saying I'm afraid to be lynched is pretty groundless your activity was worthless to me and I refuse to be lynched solely because of that and that's the last I'll say about that activity.

P-edit:
Fuck you get me paranoid about ed now...

[TierShift]

Ray's post is good stuff and explains well what I was trying to get across regarding the analysis of the lists.

Now, if Rob were actually playing this would be a good idea. But he isn't, so, let's justhope he gets replaced real soon.
How do you suppose this worksif rob isn't around?

Also, 6-8 sentences total or per person?

[TierShift]

No, I mean, do I have to do 8 sentences per read, or for all my reads together? But I suppose it's all of them together...

[TierShift]

Who are you to call out other players for lurking?
Getting annoyed big time here.

You make a shitty post about how you nullread someone.
What do you want us to respond?
1. Wow, great job nullreading someone!
2. Wow, you point out a few things that are null about bjc! My case has been completely invalidated!
3. Great, you post little content!

If you give us nothing to work off of, you're not gonna get useful responses.

Oh and I didn't drop to second scummiest, I was already there.

[TierShift]

Your latest reads list was in 478 and I was second scummiest there.

I reread your post again and it was pointing out scummy things about bjc, a few null things and a slightly townie thing 365. Explain how this case is supposed to alter my view on bjc and what is townie about 365.

[TierShift]

Others should swap doe. TS, you know you're starting to doubt ED being town. Nacho, you pegged ED as scum #2. Let's do it, folks. At least L-1.

There's a problem...it's not likely that you both are scum...and I also like you for scum for the shitton of reasons mentioned.
This good followup on ED makes you slightly less likely to be scum though.
But I liked ED sp much at the start...
I'll make up my mind in the afternoon.

[TierShift]

Yay sakura is in here!
Finally some sense will be made.

I want explanations on the bjc and ed reads when you're done, I'm having a hard time choosing and it doesn't feel like a bus from bjc there.

Nacho get in here you lazy ass

[TierShift]

WHY OH WHY ARE YOU SCUMREADING THE LURKER?

[TierShift]

'Nacho reads someone as scum so they are scum' is not a valid reason. Please tell me the reason as to why nacho is onto him, because you said you know that reason.

[TierShift]

enough of your survivalism play. at this point your play is becoming more hindeirng to me then helpful if your town.

......... Okay. Whatever, someone hammer me so I can play in a different newb game.

^
Does this look like survivalist to you?
And if his play is hindering you then you're effectively pushing for a policy lynch, now that i finished reading im thinking on bjc as more town. Maybe because I've been in his position before.
Also Ika leaning more scum =/

Don't even try to insinuate 608 is not very very easily fakeable by scum.

That said, bjc doesn't look like it's gonna happen and emerald is, so I'll switch over the next few days if bjc doesn't start picking up votes again.

[TierShift]

This thread has a very good opening post.

QFT

Also I don't see why my last post is bad, I showed that I want a bjc lynch more than an ED lynch but just by a bit.

[TierShift]

I just wanna hear from emerald once more before driving him up to a claim...I'm not really convinced so far.

[TierShift]

Right, I was saying that between 407 and 478 you dropped from 4th to 2nd. It doesn't matter now.

I'm going off of 505 because it's the last time you stated your case completely I think. These are the things I think are bugging you.
(1) sheeping: bjc sheeped hard in the early game, everyone knows it and he admits it. He played the early game very casually. But there is a town motivation for pushing wagons to generate content. It's not as good as actual pressure, but it's something.
(2) pushing Rob W: I think you're a bit off on this, as I said, he never voted Rob W. Where's the sheeping there?
(3) "Survivalism": 365 and 369 are actually consistent with the behavior of a town PR I think. Not saying he is one and I definitely don't want to force an early claim (and that's why there shouldn't be an early intent to hammer), but certain types of town players get panicky when they are close to a lynch.

You and bjc have been fighting a lot, and honestly it's generating more heat than light. My advice for both of you would be this: Take a step back. Even if you're sure he's scum, look around for his scum partner. Don't get caught up in OMGUS.

Okay, lemme respond to this.
1. His sheeping didn't generate anything at all, while making it seem like it did. He's done little to move this game forward but has been pretending he has.
2. He didn't vote robw, but he definitely told all his attackers to move to robw, for reason 'I'm active and he's not and we all have the same chance of being scum'.
3. Putting away scummy things as PR behaviour is awful.

I have been taking a step back and also been considering you as a serious suspect. But as far as I can see, you and bjc are not buddies. Bjc still stands out as scum to me way more than you do, especially after your last posts.

Your hardcore scumreading of me due to disengaging you is something that is a town analysis in every aspect and I would say you do a better job at helping us forward with the little you have posted than with all the crap bjc has posted. You seek reasoning behind what someone's doing except of just scratching the surface. Now what I'm asking of you is to not only do this on me, but also on the other players.

I have emerald as strong town again and you can all go deal with it.

Saying that I'm WK'ing him however is preposterous.

I want a bjc lynch badly and if I'm not getting it I might be okay with a robw lurker lynch.

[TierShift]

do you have some real reasoning for once?

Says the guy who said: 'let's lynch tier cause he has the most nulls

@Sakura:
I strictly opposed the sentiment that the lurking was scummy. I showed that I disliked nacho for pushing a lurkervso strongly. If, however, I need to choose between an ED and a robw lynch you can be damn sure I'll vote rob.

[TierShift]

post 589

is the biggest tell tale to me imo, its fresh from today

You are hilarious.

[TierShift]

It's still us three posting in circles...

I can't see ika being scum.

I am having a hard time seeing TS as scum and his ability to think about things (if genuine) has helped my view on him.

People I want to hear from:
Nacho
LMB
AboTT's replacement
Robw's replacement (

MOD: It's very clear this guy is not settling into this game; please replace him.

)

Time to bring TS down.

unvote; vote: TierShift

as a side note, the f*** are you talking about TS? Every time the game stalled out I did something to at least help propel us forward. I drew attention to myself; I drew both scum on my wagon; I pointed out things I didn't like.

I'm sure if you asked TS he'd tell you I was the worst player evar at mafia.

Whatevs, bro. It's time we get a flip.

You also misinterpret what I said about rob to my "attackers" and you also conveniently missed my post when I originally made it!

Delicious newbscum.
Why again did everyone jump off of his wagon?

[TierShift]

Explain to me how it is anti town in any way.

[TierShift]

His read on me changed from town to scum based solely on post 620, as far as I can see. He insinuated in his latest post that I had been scummy for a long time and that my image only deteriorated, while that is just untrue if you look at his posting from like a day ago in which he calls me town.

[TierShift]

Are you talking about me vs bjc?

[TierShift]

Bjc, you are just quoting my posts, making one liners and calling jt a day. You really need to elaborate.
Why is my post anti-town?
Why does the followup post make it worse?
Why is backing off a scumtell?

I can't argue if you don't provide reasoning and then you call all my responses deflecting.

[TierShift]

My case is in 505. Adding to that is his sudden scumreading of me when all the other players flipped on me (see 681 and 685) where he's again just pushing all lynches that aren't him. Especially here, his sentiment on me changed very quickly after he saw two votes on me.

This is my case, stated in a nice and concise manner. I have heard no refutal to any of the points made here as of yet and I'm wondering what made you all reconsider your scumread on bjc.

[TierShift]

Is that your complete case? Based on two posts of mine?

On how I don't want ed to flip town if I'm scum?

I was stalling to vote ED, because I was not sure of him being scum. Never have I said that I was completely sure of ED scum, nor have I ever insinuated that. I've always said that I wanted to wait for more input from him, before voting him. That was a good decision, since he has now shown to me that he's town and you have shown to be sheeping once more.

Then, I don't want to vote ED because I'm scum and he's town and if he'd flip town, I'd look scummy? If I'm scum, would I then ever vote for anyone out of fear of being called scummy? I'm voting you because I think you're scum and I know I'll look scummy if you flip town, but I don't care, because I think you're scum.

Here, I invalidated your whole case.

Also, this is not how cases work. You can't just take someone's action and then explain it from a scun perspective, you have to find inherently scummy things and then point them out.

[TierShift]

Tbh, bjc overall sounds more genuine to me. The fact that you can't make a decission and are asking for them to go at each other's throats is bothering me, what if you're scum and know they're both town? what if you're scum with TS and you've orchestrated a nice bus to only agree with him by the end despite having him as scum all day long?.

PEd. why didnt you do that from the beginning?

So, you think I'm scum now? Why exactly? Also because there was one post that was 'not pro-town'?

How do you feel about ika orchestrating this to ba a 1v1? Do you feel there's necessarily scum in me or bjc?

[TierShift]

Yeah, so do you think ika is scum? Do you have some definite reads now? Rob still scum? Ed?

[TierShift]

Yes! Nacho is in here! And he's only 300 posts behind!

[TierShift]

Please tell me why you think lynching lurkers in a newbie game is a bad idea.

Lurking is a non-tell and even more so in newbie games and that's just the way it is.

Let me rephrase it: lynching lurkers for the fact that they are lurkers in newbie games is bad.

If there's more to it, it's fine. If it's a deadline compromise, it's fine. But actively pushing for them because of lurking. No.

[TierShift]

I don't believe that's a usual hate in place for TierShift to hate lynching lurkers, sooo

Hmm?

[TierShift]

That last part is true. The first part isn't. Lurking like hell while staying in the game is a non-tell for newbies, really.

If PoE it's fine.

[TierShift]

It's my experience so far. I've read a few newbie games, where lurking really hard was done mostly by town. I've played one, in which a lurker who checked in once every few days was town.
I'm failing to see how it is a scum tell. If they don't want to play, the don't post. If they want to play, they'll talk as either alignment.

But this argument is going nowhere. We won't ever agree.

Btw, I have already expressed my interest in lynching rob if not bjc.

[TierShift]

A few, when I just started out. I have no idea which anymore.
I could do a quick search, looking at postcounts in newbie games and determining alignemnt of hc lurkers.

[TierShift]

Hey, I'm talking about newbies here, not SE, if that wasn't clear.

[TierShift]

This is awkward. I could swear I've seen at least a couple newbie games with hc lurkers but now I've checked the activity levels of like 10 and not a single hc lurker.
Then, I have a sample size of one and that one is town, rothwell in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33357

Even though I can't back up my argument now, I still don't see backup for yours. You are quoting all non-newbie slots.

The graph that you quoted, however, shows something else. Newbie who replace out are scum (I really hope this doesn't become a scumtell), but Rob is not replacing yet and both me and bjc replaced into a newbie slot, so using that on rob is a bit moot.

[TierShift]

Was speaking to nacho...uh and yes you're right forgot about them not even reading their role pms

[TierShift]

Like this probably.

I'll admit that I'm hugely biased because of this one newbie game I've played in which it happened with a town newbie. But unless you want to use replacing out as a scumtell (which it kinda is as per statistics but still awful) I still fail to see your point.

[TierShift]

Now, why do I think newbies lurk more as scum? I think that playing town is something that comes more naturally to a lot of people; it is very difficult to fake scumhunting if you've never seen scumhunting before. So, newbies get their role PMs, they go "what the hell am I supposed to do?", and they freeze up. This specific case shows a newbie who is posting so they will not get replaced; this tells me that he wants to play, but is likely having trouble scumhunting so literally did not know what to post.

Finally you tell me where you are coming from, this makes some sense at least. I think we still don't agree, but I get it now.
Still, lurking alone is not a scumtell for me, maybe this lurking without saying anything is.

Is it strong enough a scumtell to go off of for you? Don't you think there are people that have been scummier?

[TierShift]

Spoiler: bjc iso

16: pregame stuff, means hes paying attention
17: just reaction to my randomness of a roleclaim
19: asking for opinions
26: random change of vote
28: semi-filler
35: bunch of one-liners
39: random counter vote
58: answer later
60: threatens emerald
84: more discussion
94: saying doesnt care who gets lynched (scum would prob be more caring about it, even early game)
108: answers questions
136: mini wall of stuff
141: more about just "random lynching"
195: some real life stuff, not much to note
197: the seocond part did seem odd for me at first becasue i have seen scums go "this person is misguided town" howevere his backs it up with other reaosning (ISO)
208 compares my playstly to apparently another person?
253: not feeling rob train yet
256: follows up on it
279: vote hops to me as presussure
280: wants more wagoning
283: this post is ehh, it goes either way. but it sound more like "you can target me but it would be wasting time" (im noting how he says any of them, this would include cop)
289: discussion with lmb and some talk about follow cop plan and stuff
322: scum read emerald for passivle play
354: names 3 scums and thinks one of them is scum
365: this was the big test overall for me in this, he sits at l-1 for a huge ass time with my intent to hammer. now this is on the 26th so it got burried away.
377: points out teirs lack substance
382: point out teris defelction and having that he has burden of proof
388: pointing out teirs lack of his own proof, as well as how he "thinks" he falsely thinks rayfrost is scum
406: pointout abbott (who has been replaced) vaildating his points but not unvoting.
430: bunch of one-liners but responds in manner
433: activity
435: points out teirs lazyness in doing stuff
455: respond toward my hamemr threat.
463: a few one liners, but some were quite informative, showing how ed is jsut kinda fluff posting.
473: noting emralds things again.
498: more at teir
502: showing teirs usless posting and telling him to elaborate on it
507: turing tables on tier whit givign him burden of proof
509: wtf post?
526: says self hamemr, but doesnt seem scum motivated imo, it seems like he more in the "im not gonna convince you mode so let me show you"
560: want to see emerald flip
575: complains to me aobut using vote as pressure and not to threaten lycnh
580: unsure about teir, but seems fixated on ed.
582: want to hear others on what traspired
603: ed lynch wanted
608: saying fuck it hammer me
647: points out tier
678: now goes at teir
688: pointing out his flaws
690: point out hes deflecting
699: does the activiy of him building a case (it may get old but its what i do, deal with it)
762: how he plays and prgession of playstlye

rest are not all that of importance

Bjc, here is what's called IIoA.

[TierShift]

Bjc (others also), what do you think of 670?

[TierShift]

Not much to say right now; let's wait for the replacement.

[TierShift]

Hey kop.

Your entrance is not very convincing. Any scumreads? Things that look awkward? Other things that stand out?

[TierShift]

fair enough. ^^

@tier, a few things. I almos posted several selects, but I can find them again after if they are so bothesome? i want to iso a few players, one for a percieved readflop.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

[TierShift]

On your ika case, I'd like to quote your sig: Morons are everywhere though. The average person is average, half of the people are even dumber than average.

To me, it seems that ika is running around like a chicken without a head, actionwise. But his style of posting and not hiding anything really make me feel that he's town. I have no understanding of your case on him. I see that he is not exactly helping out but I see no scum.

Pisskop, I have defended your slot solely for the fact that lurking isn't a scumtell. I had no townread on robw whatsoever, let that be clear, and you have not improved my image of the slot. I have not seen much good done by you, except pushing a lynch on a VI. Are you caught up now?

[TierShift]

Why so fast? There's over 2 days to deadline and I don't see a reason to lynch him before he has conveyed all thoughts he has about this game.

[TierShift]

Why is bjc town kop?

[TierShift]

Good stuff koppie

[TierShift]

Talking to me?

[TierShift]

:/ what do you want from me?

Moar bjc pressure

Now explain your emerald scumread.

[TierShift]

I actually have a hard time seeing if you're serious or not.

[TierShift]

Activity tomorrow.

[TierShift]

Long catchup post incoming

if im still alive ill post my business and claim. tier is looking town and i must admit I see his reasoning. will my death help clear him?

Yo, so somebody ISO tier, abbott, hana and search for these names

---abbott

hana = 0 (:neutral:)
tiershift = 1 (1 match, defug?)
TS = 3 (only in read lists)

---hana

abbott 0 (yup, surprise)
tiershift = 5 (???)
TS = 16

---tiershift

abbott = 5
hana = 0


the only other person who holds a candle to this is LMB. But he's town.

analyzing Hana's posts on Tier seem to suggest me being town clears Tier. Game, set, match.

ebwop.

Tier has two hits for 'hana'. opps.

Ill look at it again, but superseriousclasstime is right now.

What is all of this?
I'm town, and you want to clear me by getting lynched? How?
I refer to sakura as sakura, not as hana.
Are you daying I'm scum with sakura, or are you saying I'm town?

Am I allowed to be happy that ika's getting replaced by someone with better spelling?

Yes so am I

Reading everything, emeraldemon is the most scummy to me at the moment.

And yes I am serious when I say pisskop is probably town. Unfortunately so.

Explain both your emerald scumread and your pisskop townread to me.

Spoiler:

@ika
So you want to wait a few days to start scumhunting? Maybe scum will confess on their own?

To answer your question, no, I don't think people usually randomly switch votes in RVS. I don't think bjc's vote was random, I think he had a reason. I wanted to hear from him what that reason was. The fact that you're intercepting and trying to stop me from asking a very reasonable question makes me suspicious of you. Maybe you'd rather keep the fluff rolling as long as
possible.

Why the fuck was there exactly zero response to me laying out a big post about bjc and changing my reads? It doesn't sit well with me at all, I get that most of the players are lurking right now, but why didn't bjc OR ika OR tiershift say anything?

Why should I post shit if it's gonna be ignored?

ika you blew off my actual analysis so that you could engage in another pointless time-wasting game. Day ends soon. Stop the BS.

Rayfrost don't start with me, I am pissed off at you also. You really think what we need is more games with 4 days to lynch?

bjc, you have zero excuse for ignoring my post, you just continue to say "ED is still scummy" without even trying. Was that whole thing scum theater to throw you off your game? Or are you just being lazy? Have your reads changed at all in the last week?

I will come back later and try to post more productively, but I am too annoyed to be helpful right now.

Oh and I didn't drop to second scummiest, I was already there.

Nope:

TOWN
Nachomamma - I agree with almost every post from him that isn't about ika
lynch me bro - newbtown all the way
RayFrost - I like your ability to write in complete paragraphs
Abbott - null still
tiershift - aggressively townreading me, not sure if this is a test
ika - badfeels
bjc - probably scum
Rob W - The real test will be if we get him to L-1
SCUM

Look, it's totally fair to call me out for lurking, I have been a shitty town player this game, and the fact that all of our experienced players are getting prodded / replaced has made this kind of a shitty game (plus the one intentional newbie lurker). But if you're really town, reread what I wrote and think about it. I think you're probably wrong about bjc.

He's never not going to be like this in terms of the quality of his logic, but that doesn't make it so that we can't read him for sincerity / transparency tells. Which, if you were a transparency tell kind of person, you'd be able to do pretty easily off of his posting.

. . . oww. you, you say that in two months. Ive got 1completed game under me and im learning all the time. i think being scum is easier for me, though. :/


ed is ehh for me. id be willing to vote him for a trip because info is good.

unvote
vote: emeralddemon

emerald, i do want you to lay out any rayfrost suspicions you have clearly though.

im willing to see where this goes, ehh?

And pisskop shamelessly hops on the ed wagon, with a sick IIoA.

on other news bjc has evolved from prob town to obvtown for me.

Why?

Fferyllt seems town to me, just like her predecessor.
Emerald is townietown
Sakura is up there in the townreads
Ray is town enough
LMB looks like newbtown

Nacho is still so null, not liking that.

And either bjc or koppie may die.
Bjc scumread refuses to change and there's little incentive for it to.
Pisskop is painting everyone black and is flipflopping like crazy. I find it hard to believe that he's actually feeling what he says he's feeling.

Why again is there this emerald wagon?

[TierShift]

What good is there to a townbloc when there's like 3 people who agree that it actually is a townbloc?

[TierShift]

Don't discuss townblocs around ED

He gets upset

[TierShift]

ED, I townread you because of stuff mentioned in 670 and I haven't even seen a half-decent argument to make me think you are scum. I find it weird that people are scumreading you and I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, but everytime I ask I get no answers.

[TierShift]

@tiershift
It seems like you're scumreading pisskop, but your vote hasn't budged off of bjc. Why? Is bjc still scummier?

Yep.

[TierShift]

That isn't the point I was trying to make tho.
The point i was trying to make is that the post you quoted is a post i have made to give key points i remembered from the thread to pisskop.
I do have a tendency to sheep Nacho, specially when I believe he's town tho.

Would you stop hiding behind nacho please? Thanks.

VOTE: Tiershift

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

Yes...what's up with that sheeping?

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

Why are you voting with your scumread?

This.

In the meantime do you have questions for tier? He seems busy lately, but surely. . .

Like his earlier Rayfrost reads. I want them forward. restated or updated.

Rayfrost is town to me. His actions have brought this game forward and his reasons to vote come from a town mindset I think. He's been good at picking out flaws and keeping a cool head. I could elaborate if you want.

If I found juicey nuggets I would have shared them. I think his playstyle here is very open, and while looking over his specific choice of wording I get all tingly. one of my newer insights inti the game are choice of wording and how it changes under pressure. or if scuk popushing an angle. other than that yiu can have what I saved in a draft last night.

Spoiler:

I think that Tier may be using my slot a verification of his own, which is why he was okay defending it. I've stated something of the sort before. Another point is his pursuit on bjc. bjc has let him sit rather idle whilst looking like a scumhunter.

No, actually scum don't quickhammer on this site.

Saying I'm afraid to be lynched is pretty groundless your activity was worthless to me and I refuse to be lynched solely because of that and that's the last I'll say about that activity.

P-edit:
Fuck you get me paranoid about ed now...

o.o

Aside from that its all wifomy and Stuff.

I want a wagon on him, not to share my theories or to lynch him now.

Is this supposed to be a case or what?

TS > kop interaction could be buddying tho.

Uh...I'm buddying kop? Start reading this thread.

I'm just going to say I derped and forgot all about trying to sort ffery

How would you forget this?

In the hypothetical situation where bjc is scum for sure without a doubt with interactions akin to this game, there would have been, I'd imagine, a tipping point at which either bjc's buddy was attempting to consistently raise counterwagons (not just one, as consistently trying to push a single one could come across as scummy via the t.v. issue whereas finding things scummy for multiple people is more liable to be seen as active scumhunting and mere disagreement with the bjc wagon) or given up the ghost and gone for the bus. These wouldn't necessarily happen at the same time, but the simple fact that I haven't seen much evidence of people trying to subtly snipe the wagon's momentum or distract from the wagon itself or even a bus makes me inclined to feel that it's simply an issue of too many low hanging fruit for bjc to be lynched.

I try to understand this. So, because you haven't been able to drop any associative tells, you think that bjc is not scum?

I like this new guy's entrance.

What I don't understand is all the townreads that koppie has been getting all of a sudden. How did he go from flailing scum to obvtown? Can someone assemble a summary or something?

[TierShift]

In post 1206, Sakura Hana wrote:
TS > kop interaction could be buddying tho.

Uh...I'm buddying kop? Start reading this thread.

In post 1212, Sakura Hana wrote:
I'm just going to say I derped and forgot all about trying to sort ffery

How would you forget this?

Response to this?

[TierShift]

hmm that's odd...
I'd think that it would be quite unlikely for both scum to be on my wagon at the same time, my current strongest scumread is pisskop and he's already here, my guess is that his partner is really TS who is just standing around and looking for a way to jump into the wagon, and what other good reason to do so than:

Deadline counter: 1 day, 3 hours, 53 minutes

Yeah this is getting as fishy as hell...

Wait,

I'm

the one who wants to jump onto wagons now? I've pretty clearly stated two scumreads that I'd be willing to lynch and I would need no incentive to switch wagons.

That isn't the point I was trying to make tho.
The point i was trying to make is that the post you quoted is a post i have made to give key points i remembered from the thread to pisskop.
I do have a tendency to sheep Nacho, specially when I believe he's town tho.

Would you stop hiding behind nacho please? Thanks.

^^ Hey Tier, do you have any idea why I don't like this reply?

Nope, explain? I want sakura to get out there and talk to me.

VOTE: Tiershift

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

Yes...what's up with that sheeping?

unvote
vote: tiershift

wagons! \o/

Why are you voting with your scumread?

This.

What do you think of his response?

Wagons are good? Stupid. Is there really anything to his response?

You defended the hell out of his predecessor without ever actually calling him town iirc.

And that's buddying pisskop how?

I try to understand this. So, because you haven't been able to drop any associative tells, you think that bjc is not scum?

I like this new guy's entrance.

First sentence feels kinda like a slip.

What was your read on LMB?

Town. How is it a slip in any way?

What I don't understand is all the townreads that koppie has been getting all of a sudden. How did he go from flailing scum to obvtown? Can someone assemble a summary or something?

Which players called him flailing scum and then changed their reads to obvtown?

Everyone was like pisskop is scum and now I see so many people saying koppie is town. I'm not sure who actually changed.
Maybe ray was right about it being due to the scumreaders talking a lot first and now the townreaders.

Sakura? Veto.

Vote: TierShift

Eh, why?

Ffery, your towncase on pisskop is bad. Him not PR claiming is, as you say yourself, not a towntell. He wasn't actually down for a lynch conpletely and in such a case it's usually better to claim VT and hope to escape a lynch than to die for sure while drawing out a PR.
You then quote a shitton of posts without actually saying why they're town. If you want to convince me of pisskop town, actually explain why my arguments for him scum are bad and give me something that holds a little ground on him being town.

Do you really want me to claim now?

[TierShift]

Still not seeing it.

[TierShift]

Since I see no merit in waiting till the morning,

I'm VT.

Ugh ffery I reread your pisskop read and I must've missed the first paragraph there. I now at least see where you're coming from. I don't agree, however. Even though his posts are short and full of energy, I find his questions not very useful. He just hops on any wagon just like bjc did before, without explaining, just hiding behind others, mostly behind yourself. While having you as scum.

1247 makes me feel a tad better about him, though. Ugh :/

[TierShift]

I'll do a quick readslist before I go to sleep.
Explanations tomorrow if asked.

Town
Hagate
Dogmeraldo
Ffery
Ray

Sakura
Nacho

Piss
Bjc
Scum

[TierShift]

V/la till sunday evening

vote: sakura

Since I'd rather see a nullread go than town. I guess neither pisskop nor bjc are gonna pick up votes.

[TierShift]

Dat quickwagon

GG, town.

Sorry for sucking, sakura, I'll be better next time.

[TierShift]

Also, bussing sucks balls. >.>

Who gets towncred from it these days?

[TierShift]

kop, try to be a little more composed and not all over the place. Something I need to work on myself too.

[TierShift]

I wouldn't end up lynching you two games in a row

>:(