Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[ika]

mod: can i play w/o reading my role card?

[ika]

mod: can i play w/o reading my role card?

No.

dang, ok i read it ready to go

[ika]

RayFrost

closest match to theme of game

also i claim a role that is in the 3x3 box

[ika]

vote: rayfrost

need that vote in there.

[ika]

Why did you move your vote to abbott?

why do you care is the bigger question here?

[ika]

nacho and bjc are probable towns

/discuss

[ika]

Why did you move your vote to abbott?

why do you care is the bigger question here?

Really? You don't care?

His first vote might have been random, hard to say, but switching votes definitely isn't.

so you say a second vote is never rvs?

so right now if i went like this

unvote
vote nacho

would it be a random vote or not? im askign why you care about his sudden vote switch to anohter player who is not you. if the vote was on you i could see more reasoning, but you just going "???" is offsetting

its a second vote near begining of game, why should i care?

if this was maybe mid day 1 or day 2 then i would but here i dont see anything odd. im wanting to know why you think its odd

[ika]

@ika
So you want to wait a few days to start scumhunting? Maybe scum will confess on their own?

To answer your question, no, I don't think people usually randomly switch votes in RVS. I don't think bjc's vote was random, I think he had a reason. I wanted to hear from him what that reason was. The fact that you're intercepting and trying to stop me from asking a very reasonable question makes me suspicious of you. Maybe you'd rather keep the fluff rolling as long as
possible.

VOTE: ika

How's that for not random?

So i am spewing fluff by asking questions? Plz tell me more about this. I did not intercept you, i merly asked you a question. these 2 post to me scream omgus. plus the next post being a vote is very oddly placed. he also already justified his reasoning. he sparked discussion. we are now following up on it. i was wondering why you care so much about his vote.

the vote is not directed at you
the vote is only the second vote on a diffrent player
your reaction to the vote switch is what is odd to me

are you saying every vote past the first vote should have justification? if that is the point i can see some vaild reasoning. what you just did though was very odd in itself you complain to me for haveing dicussion and trying to talk to you and in your very next post vote me for trying to engadge in dicussion.

VOTE: emeraldemon

he seems pretty genuine to me

Who are you addressing here?

this i would like to hear as well. it is surprisingly vauge

[ika]

What a fantastic start. Lots of drama right out of the gate.

so you say a second vote is never rvs?

I suggest a new tactic to determine if something is RVS or a legitimate vote. Just. Ask. The. Voter.

Are you not paying attention? i did, and he responded. you seemed to have nitpicked here

Why did you move your vote to abbott?

why do you care is the bigger question here?

@ika:

1

It's obvious why anybody would care. So obvious that I'm wondering if your question here is supposed to be rhetorical.

2

Are you implying that emeraldmon shouldn't care who you are voting for?

3

Or were you just fishing for a post like this?

4

Beh. I dislike "sneaky" townies. It makes it harder to sort everybody out. The town's biggest weapon is its numbers. Trying to be a sneaky McSneak pants doesn't help communication.

1] no its not obvious why ONE person would care. Right now in early stage i find that votes are nothing more then conversation pieces atm. If his early jump at a second vote on SOMEONE ELSE is what screams out at me. and the fact that it was only a sceond vote. as he and i already pointed out, he wanted to cause discussion and possibly even gage reactions. His reaction was to question it with "???" wanting reason, he gave his reason and when i questioned it, he got defensive about it

2]yes and no, as town you should have a sense of caring who others vote for when you are leading a lynch or want a lynch to go off. here his reaction to a second vote to me screamed "OMG WHAT ARE YOU DOING VOTING MY SCUM BUDDY"

the vote did have no justification but caused a reaction, a reaction that i was able then to use to have some dicscussion and some interaction. Sometimes random posts/votes are just the thing needed to

A] start up new converstations/dicussions
B] Catch scums

3] This question is rather odd but i would say good to an extent, you are trying to understand why i am asking it, you did state sevral ideas on what i was doing and my posts are made to see how they react, i was merly questioning him asking for his reason for reacting to the vote like that. My post does have a sense of "its an obvious pointless post" but it is something to cause discussion. if towns greatest tool is the power of numbers and ability to communicate, why would he go through such length to try and discredit me and/or not continues discussion like he did with his post

4] As you play more games, you will understand that towns must sometimes play the what you call "sneaky town" card. it may be annoying and may shut out communication at times, however here as you can see right now i am being perfectly open about it and many of my post have been full of information. if anything, emeraldemon has been doing that as well as you

***

Interesting OMGUS from nacho. Anybody wanna help me get this train rolling?

that, just, no.

[ika]

words

@ika: Okay. I didn't get much of anything out of this exchange. I do have one followup question for you; if you are content with placing "random" votes at this point in the game, why aren't you willing to vote for nacho?

Wagons are the fast track out of RVS.

So explain to me why you are in such a hurry to exit rvs, how do you know we have not already exited rvs? Your vote on nacho was pure rvs and me wagoning him would do almost nothing. I may be jumping it here but as of now im content with my vote if you would like me to change it to nacho, show me reasoning. I am inclined to change my vote to someone else but I still want to see more post by the players.

Would like to have some more content...

Then generate something. Your last post on asking why is something, however you have it directed towards that person. Its not generated towards the group as a whole.

I will give us some questions to generate contents if it will help

Favorite role to play as?
Playstyle preference?
where do you originate from if you played before?
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral?
Who is your strongest town and scum read?
who are your null reads?
why are you reading all those players like that?

those question should generate contents

[ika]

Check out this interaction:

#29 I ask bjc about his vote
#30 ika: "Why do you care?"
#31 ika: "nacho and bjc are probable towns"
#37 I vote ika
#38 bjc: "WTF is this? vote emeraldemon"
#42 ika: (about bjc) "he also already justified his reasoning. he sparked discussion. we are now following up on it."


Are these guys best friends or what?

I will address these because i may not be ic here or se, but i do have a fair amount of experience from my home site i would say. so I will adress them each and what i see from it.

29: your post to me was off-setting because it was at someone else and you had an urge to question it, now you could be causing some discussion but it could also be a "OMG YOUR VOTING MY SCUM BUDDY" newbie mistake.

30: me trying to stir some discussion with you by askign why you care so much

31: this is just some reads i have based of guts and the interaction. however its not yet set in stone

37: here you didnt mention post 36 where you had a defensive nature to me, post 37 was OMGUS for the most part.

38: bjc is wanting to know you reasoning for voting me because your vote as i said in the last line is mostly OMGUS, his could be the same in a sense.

42: more like i was clarifying what he was doing

Also
#41 "Who are you addressing here?" How is it unclear? The post came directly after yours and is talking about what you are talking about. It is directed to you.
#42 ika agrees with bjc some more "this i would like to hear as well. it is surprisingly vauge" even though it wasn't vague at all.
#52 ika: "Right now in early stage i find that votes are nothing more then conversation pieces" Followed by some utterly generic questions.

Sorry, I'm trying not to tunnel here, but you two look like scum buddies to me.

41 and 42: I was unsure and just wanted some clarification. It doesn't hurt to have things clarified when you don't understand

52: how does post 52 pertain to our buddying? if you mean by generating contents then possible.

As for the scum buddies, i can see where you are coming from to think that but sadly you are mistaken.

[ika]

VOTE: AbboTT

im on break from work expect to find me later

[ika]

real quick, the only reason im doing big walls of reads is becasue i am quite expeinced and want to help the new players understand what i am seeing/what it says to me i can always make tl;dr variations of it but i will look at post and adress each.

Nacho as IC should be coming on and helping but i am more so doing it to help.

[ika]

Spoiler: all the post from pg 4 so far

Hey so you wanted to see my town game right? Let's do this thing

So one thing makes me hesitate about bjc / ika scumteam: 16 it would surprise me a little for a scum to draw attention to a partner like this in the first post.

Other than that though, pretty much everything from them has felt scumteam.

The only other person who's posted anything is Abbott, but unfortunately it's all pretty null. Need more stuff from everyone.

Post 16 is why I had an early town slot on bjc, his awareness of my pregame post made me think he is town because i figured scums don't care about that stuff and would not pay attention. He was obviously aware of my pre-game post. The only other reason would be is if we were both scums, however i am not. It is possible that he is but right now its null-town coming from him atm.

How about stuff from you? What's with your vote on ika? What do you make of Robw's vote on ika?

Heres a good post, he trying to spark some discussion and trying to get reads on people here. I am starting to get irked by the big buddying of him and the votes on me. But its feels more genuine. One of the few things that makes me wonder is he wants contents from people but does not give contents of his own. I gave a good few questions for discussion but he has yet to answer them when he said he would.

Thanks for the link!
I'm probably not going to read it; just be obviously town and we will get along just fine.

He did that last game and coasted to a win as scum

Early game reads:
emerald town: is putting himself much more in the spotlights than he did in his scumgame+feels genuine.
Ika town: really trying to hunt but well...uh walling is not necessary. Great to see someone try, though.

Not seeing much scummy intent anywhere yet but I might reread some more.

VOTE: nacho
Get out of spectator mode.

To me this is 2 prong. This gives me more confidence in emerald being town due to you having experience with him. I didn't glance at his game because I was lazy but due to biassed reasons I am considering you town and will take that emerald is town.

Your reasoning for nacho seems also valid that if he is merely coasting and seems to be doing right now. It is becoming annoying and not helpful. He seems to be trying to take a null path. I first took it as IC trying to play neutral but looking back even as an IC should not coast like he is.

@bjc
I made a long post about why I voted ika (59), did you read it?
Yes, Robb W needs to come out and post.

@tiershift
Man, I really hope you are town this game. So you don't think ika and bjc are buddying?

This post gives me more confidence in you being town because of the second half thats addressed to tiershift. I do think you are sligtly stuck in the me and bjc buddying, but i am going to take it as a newbie thing. If one of us were to flip scum, then you should follow up on it. However there is also a flip-side that a scum will buddy with a strong town read to try to get them out. However I say that our "buddying" is more just general chat and discussion.

Nah, ika is town. Just look at the total lack of self-conciousness.
As for bjc buddying, define buddying.

Bjc, you got any experience? Sure seems like you do. Why do you think emerald is scum?
Abbott, why do you say wagons are the way out of RVS, then place a lone vote?

This gives me a good town read from you, you jump right in and start asking questions and want to obviously discuss things. You are obviously a player who has a few games under your belt and knows what you are doing.

@bjc
I made a long post about why I voted ika (59), did you read it?
Yes, Robb W needs to come out and post.

@tiershift
Man, I really hope you are town this game. So you don't think ika and bjc are buddying?

That didn't really look like a justification for voting but more like a, "hey guys, check this out."

Oh and yes I'd say that it looks like we're buddying. I can't say he's confirmed townie to me but I'm not the best at that.

Bjc, you got any experience? Sure seems like you do. Why do you think emerald is scum?

Yes. I originate from a sports-based website where I've played 3 or 4 games, then made my way here.

Admittedly, it's something small, but it struck me as something awful:

VOTE: ika

How's that for not random?

Note: I'm not one to call someone's play "bad" or call people names and pull some high-rank crap because I think that's annoying and I think people who make the "that post was so bad" kind of posts either:

-Can't properly explain what's wrong with the post
-or-
-Are 14 years old.

So why do I say this? To clarify that my use of awful was to describe how it jumped out at me, not that the substance was awful.

This post gives me a better understanding of how you play and what i should expect from you. It helps when I know what i should be expecting. Seeing how you only have 3-4 games played. You seems to have a good start. There are a few things that I do think you could improve on thoguh. But I will save that for post game

It awfully jumps out at you, but the substance isn't awful. Why is it scummy again?

If you want a wagon, vote nacho, IC wagons are cool.

It awfully jumps out at you, but the substance isn't awful. Why is it scummy again?

If you want a wagon, vote nacho, IC wagons are cool.

Well at the time it seemed scummy, almost OMGUS in nature but ika voted for nacho, not emeral.

Cool.

unvote; vote: nacho

this puts nacho at l-2.

VOTE: nacho

this is l-1, his coasting nature and trying to stay null at first looked like to me as an IC play but is more biassed of a reason and he should actually not be doing so and legitimately coming out to help. Also after ISOing him, his post stick out to me as scum for what they say.

[ika]

tldr variation

ika - town
bjc - town
TierShift - town
Rob W - null
Lynch Me - null
emeraldemon - town
RayFrost (SE) - null-town
AbboTT (SE) - null-scum
Nachomamma8 (IC) - scum

[ika]

I feel like my scum read on nacho is biassed by others.....

That could just be my paranioa kicking in but I see is is posting elsewhere on site. I am expecting him to come out and give imput on the posts. Im inclined to hear his reads and reasonings.

[ika]

inb4 scum quickhammer.

Care to unvote? or do you think nacho is scum? and if nacho does flip town, we can shrink the scum pile quite a bit becasue odds are if he does both scums are on the train.

Wait why is Nacho scum, can you explain to me here? Also posts like "Why do you care about him" shows a bit of defensive act towards another player.

My reasoning is more biassed by others but You know this post to me sounds a lot like "why do you care about him" as well. Some of his post that i see just seems odd to me. Theres a certain thing to some of his post that makes me think scum.

[ika]

with those 2 post, i feel more inclined to hear from abott again

VOTE: AbboTT

my l-1 vote was more of a test to see how player reacted to a quick l-1

[ika]

What did you get from my response, ika?

Enough information to have you as at least back in a null. Your coasting is still bothersome, but i take it more as IC mode. Really right now i would like to hear abbott more.

Your points on bjc so express me some intrest becasue earlier you have bjc slotted as town. I need to hear from more players before I truly decide if you are town or not.

[ika]

Right now im conflicted between Abbott and you. Both of you are claissifed as the higher teir in this game. So i feel like you were trying to stop your train. But at the same accord, your train picked up speed quite quickly for silly reasoning. But others did have an idea.

I figure between abbott and you right now. One of you are scum and the ohter is town. Or this is an elaborate ploy of cross bussing. However i dont think you would take it to that level of play in a newbie game.

We may have plenty of time but right now my 2 primary fos are you and abbott with a smaller one on bjc for big buddying with me. However i will wait a bit and see what others have to say.

[ika]

tldr variation:

between abbott and nacho, i think one of them is scum and the other is town.

[ika]

I will give us some questions to generate contents if it will help

Favorite role to play as?
Playstyle preference?
where do you originate from if you played before?
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral?
Who is your strongest town and scum read?
who are your null reads?
why are you reading all those players like that?

those question should generate contents

im gonna repost this for anyone who feels like answering it. This is more for if we reach a dead block

[ika]

im still looking at abbott but bjc wanting for quick-lynch is becomign troublesome

bjc, why do you want quick-lynch? why are you sheeping? please elaborate on your scum read on abbott.

[ika]

Hey, nacho. Good to have you in here. I agree that there maybe is a slight hint of fencesitting in abbott's play, but it's way too early to do your famous cases and get all these newbies to believe you have found scum already. They see you a a god, yaknow

Ika, agreed, bjc's willingness to sheep is quite bothersome.

Bjc, why do you sheep so much?

Thats why i still have nacho as null. His reaction to l-1 was mediocer but good enough to pass off for me atm. But looking back, something is just irking me. I just cant figure it out...

bjc answers to my questions gives me an odd vibe, bjc give a full read list and reasonings for each, your floping everywhere is troublesome. im going to bjc becasue of his mention of a scum quickhammer on nacho just rubs me the wrong way

VOTE: bjc

its odd playing a newbie game, i feel like im reading all the noobs as scums becasue they are noobs.

i got an exercise for everyone:

do a read on all the players and why they are that. i will do mine after a few players do theirs this will be a good exercise for everyone and a good way to have some dicussion beside us throwing vote everywhere

[ika]

-snip-

It is more of my playstyle. If you want to cram a lynch down me then go ahead, it will just come back to you. I know there is no "mayeb this maybe that" but when you have the air of uncertainty, you have to go with guts and what you know. Like right here, your post is good and informative, but have you isoed me and read many of my other posts?

This is a game of being certain and uncertainty is bad. However I will do this a lot. It is one of my flaws that i have. Wehn i become certain i will stick with it. as of right now i am still tryong to gether information and figure things out. That is why i am so indecicive right now.

I rather have a dead-lock confidence on something then going blindly into it.

[ika]

In nacho's 95 he scolds me for supposedly demanding content from him and then, in the same post, invites ika to call him out if he isn't paying enough attention to the game.

Curious.

The two are flat out not the same thing.

"Call me out if you think I'm neglecting posting in this game" is different from calling you out on posting but not providing any content with said posting. I feel the need to comment here before Nacho does because I think the suspicion of nacho is ridiculous. As in worthy of ridicule. The literal definition of the word.

It boils down to "the ic isn't playing like a deity? waht oh noes what could possibly be the reason for him not being the most active person with every post brimming with beauty and genius? he's scum coasting, that's it! got im guys!" and you essentially omgus'ing the hell out of him. If ika weren't so obviously scum, I'd probably want you to be lynched for great justice.

This post wants me to see a nacho/rayfrost flip now.

lets start another counterwagon on ray and see how it goes

VOTE: rayfrost

how about you explain to me why you felt the need to defend nacho when hes capable of doing it himself?

[ika]

I feel the need to comment here before Nacho does because I think the suspicion of nacho is ridiculous. As in worthy of ridicule. The literal definition of the word.

how about you explain to me why you felt the need to defend nacho when hes capable of doing it himself?

I literally answer this question in the post you quote.

So when I flip town what will you do? I like to look at options and what could fit and what could not. Your reasoning on me is vaild but you seemed to have crammed it down that im scum becasue of my playstyle. I am merly trying to get a better grasp at why you felt the need to defned him.

[ika]

Frost playstle and agression comes off to me as a 2-way street

scum agression or town agression.

his deathtunnle on me feel like its scum inclined, however it could also be him tring to gauge a reaction out of me if hes town. im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing. So i know the diffrent playstelyes. However fros apparenyl havign a few games under his belt means this isnt something new.

My only question is what is frost hoping to get out of this tunnle on me. is he trying to get a myslynch on me or is he merly gauging reactions on it. He did cause some discussion with it but its too early for me to make a final say on what to think of it

[ika]

You're acting as if displaying confidence is inherently using up credibility. It doesn't. Consistently confident type players don't suddenly start getting ignored. If you're actively vocal and confident, you get more people to respond to you because they react to you as if you're full on. This provides greater depth to getting read son the reactions, etc, etc, etc. And of course I wouldn't just flip someone five pages in but that doesn't mean I should just be gentle. Pushing hard gets stronger reactions with which one gets stronger reads. It helps convince people, it makes you seem less wishy washy, it promotes town reads on you (which is good regardless of alignment), makes you seem more vocal with the same level of content (again, town reads are good regardless of alignment), provides more pressure on the people or person being pressured, and opens up the way to any level of discussion that might be necessary to get reads.

It even has helped with this exchange, since you're going to reply to what I said.

tbh if a player is over-confident they found scum and they dont flip scum. they lose a lot of credability to me and would question them.

[ika]

-snip-

yes im goign to go like that, as the game progresses, i start to become more focus on who to pick. My playstle is much diffrent then your liking apparently if you are town. otherwise im going to take you as scum trying to twist my words and how i play to get me lynched. if you dont like my indcicve right now on day 1 then go ahead. or we can sit down and have someting of use to do.

day one holds most uncertenty, and thats where i stand. if you hate me for it as twon, oh well cry me a river. if you are scum, you are just trying to get me out. becasue of my uncertaty

p-edit: if thats what you think i wont stop you. some players get better as time goes on. i just know you are barkign up the wrong tree atm.

[ika]

Frost playstle and agression comes off to me as a 2-way street

scum agression or town agression.

his deathtunnle on me feel like its scum inclined, however it could also be him tring to gauge a reaction out of me if hes town. im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing. So i know the diffrent playstelyes. However fros apparenyl havign a few games under his belt means this isnt something new.

My only question is what is frost hoping to get out of this tunnle on me. is he trying to get a myslynch on me or is he merly gauging reactions on it. He did cause some discussion with it but its too early for me to make a final say on what to think of it

... how the fuck is this a "deathtunnel" and how is that inherently scummy?

Dude, your perspective of your experience vs mine is weird to me. I have been on this site for going on five years. I'm not sure if you're trying to be rude by calling my experience "a few games" or if you're really that full of yourself on the four or so months on site that you have or if you think that some length of time on some other site constitutes having thorough and valuable experience that outstrips playing here, but you should work on this because it's extremely antagonizing to minimize things like that.

I was not paying attnetion to how long you have been on site, it was not ment to be an attack i was just refering to it as se. I do not think my off-site outstips here. In fact i kinda think the opposite of it because of how our site works. But i go with what i got.

It's not a tunnel. I've commented to/about abbot despite having only really been a part of this game for... ONE PAGE.

all to the eye of the beholder.

Also the fact that you completely avoid actually replying to my points and just say that literally all of them are valid points but are your playstyle

is scummy as hell to me.

the bolded part is what i would highlight there, its scummy to you. So you are saying as a town, i shoudl discredit you back instead of accepting it? What if i do think they are vaild? why is it such a big deal that i agree that the poitns you bring up are vaild? Should i just rebuttle everything that is thrown at me? I am repsonding in what i think of your playstlye and what it tell me.

Explain the doublestandard re: the reads on me and nacho from your reads post.

the scum nach and null-town on you read? it was more just offhand reads. it was also a thing to see how many people would jump onto it as well.

[ika]

Lots of stuff I missed, trying to sort through it all now. But first things first

@ika:

52 "As you play more games, you will understand"
62 "i may not be ic here or se, but i do have a fair amount of experience from my home site i would say."
87 "i am quite expeinced and want to help the new players"
113 "its odd playing a newbie game, i feel like im reading all the noobs as scums becasue they are noobs."
152 "im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing."

Stop. Telling me you are super experienced mafia veteran will not convince me of anything. It's probably not scummy, unless you are trying to use it to get others to sheep you, but it's definitely not making me trust you more. Honestly it just makes you sound insecure.

no im not trying to get sheeps, im more trying to help. for me i find it kinda sad to have nacho be coasting and the other 2 not be around. i was kinda hoping to come into a newbie game with a bunch of players who would be coming on and posting like crazy and ic/se giving contents post or explaing things but the lack of it makes me disheartened.

[ika]

And what did you get out of your supposed reaction test with your read list?

There's no "content in the eye of the beholder" in my actively asking abbot for specific information. The fact the rest of the playerlist hasn't been active during the time I have been isn't really something I can control.

tbh not much other then your reaction. seeing how i have not played with you, it again goes one of 2 ways

A] scum twisting words and tring to get me lynched
B] not understanding what i was aiming for
C] misunderstodd town

as for the lack of player contibuting, i cant controll it either. its kinda more of "i expected this but got this" disapointment.

anyway im gonna head off. i find it that when i reflect on it i come back with a clearer head.

also if you could answer the questions i posted

Favorite role to play as?
Playstyle preference?
where do you originate from if you played before?
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral?
Who is your strongest town and scum read?
who are your null reads?
why are you reading all those players like that?

this will help decide some things.

[ika]

VOTE: lynch me bro

0 contents so far. im tired but i want to hear from him

[ika]

Hello, I'm the replacement for Purplebandit. I just see a jumble of random votes in Rvs as usual, however I see a bit of scumbuddying between bjc and ika. They seem kind of defensive towards eachother

Wait why is Nacho scum, can you explain to me here? Also posts like "Why do you care about him" shows a bit of defensive act towards another player.

Well I will admit my vote on Nacho was weak to some extent. It was mostly to make a wagon. Same crap I've done all game (try to spark discussion). If I didn't do that, I don't think ika would have put you at L-1 unless others voted, and who knows if you would've supplied more information. Hmmm...

I will also

unvote; vote: Abott

Just sudden mood changed, why did you give up on nacho and suddenly follow the wagon? Kay, it looks like you're looking for a quick-lynch.

VOTE: bcj

Guys if read my post, I breadcrumbed JK for a reaction test, and bjc immediately Omgus'd me by saying i'm scum, then ika voting me. Now I'm 50% sure of ika/bjc scumbuddying.

all of your posts now plz give more contents

[ika]

im considering this to be a nacho/LMB scum team based off post 91 alone.

frost comments?

[ika]

Bro ika, I just replaced 2 days ago, I don't have that much content.

2 days is plenty of time to generate contnets, there have alos been plenty of posts for you to give imput on. instead so far you just repeat a bcj/ika team.

really after your reaction im more set on lynching you or nacho atm your reaction to a single vote was just flat out bad

[ika]

ika - town
bjc - town
TierShift - town
Rob W - possible scum also but dunno needs more contents
Lynch Me Bro - most likly scum
emeraldemon 1 - town
RayFrost (SE) - town
AbboTT (SE) - town is nacho is scum
Nachomamma8 (IC) - high chance of scum

if someone wants me to elaborate ask. otherwise it should be apparent for the most part

[ika]

RF - patronizing townie

Pretty sure "patronizing" means false niceness. I am very sure that I'm not being nice. If I give you the feeling that I feel superior, that's on you. I am simply confident in my ways and have had a while to think about them.


Someone losing credibility for being confident about a read with a valid case on the person that ends up in a town lynch is kinda strange to me as a concept. If the case was good, then that means the person who got lynched was scummy but not scum. Meaning the person who made the case is scumhunting at least decently well. And the fact that people followed that case means that there's potential for bandwagoning scumsos to get caught out as well as there being evidence that townies actually read the case and were impressed enough to follow it (because it's a good case with valid points). For the same townies to then turn around and be like "man person X who made that case was wrong, I don't trust that guy anymore" when it takes several people to lynch is a very hard concept for me to find myself agreeing with. It's very much "we as a group were convinced by this person, but they were wrong this time so clearly their judgment is horrible because the case itself was invalid but we went with it anyway because we like squirrels" type of thinking to me.

As a group, we decide who gets lynched. One person alone can't make the decision (at least, in most games). If someone consistently makes good cases, I'm going to take them into account equally. I won't just be like "man you make a good set of points here but because the last time you made a good set of points you were wrong I won't be listening to you cuz how can I trust you." Each case has its own value and merit, and to dismiss a good case on the basis of the group deciding to follow someone else's (clearly well written / semi-valid) ideas and not having it pan out... I really really can't get my head around it.

I have had a bad expeince with ppl makign cases and have them flipping towns and then follow them again. Im just more hesitant when ppl make cases and they flip town. I do agree if they have vaild points and good reasoning, im willing to follow. But if they end up being wrong it depends how strong of a town read i had from them. If they are big town reads im willing to give them a second chance, however as i have said, I have had many games where the person who lead all the lynches was the scum. Untill i get a grasp on the player, I tend to be hesitant truly following a players leads unless if they are a pr with solid leads going on.

[ika]

Bro ika, I just replaced 2 days ago, I don't have that much content.

Now's a good time to start putting some content out in your posts, then. Go ahead, feel free. Don't mind us, you can make content posts and scumhunt and be helpful. We won't stop you.

Ika: I don't inherently feel that lyme's posting necessarily means that he's town/scum. It's a bit too early for me to get a bead. He did a "gotcha" play which could be from either alignment, so yeah. My feelings be "waitnsea"

fair enough, i do have to ask though if we were to lynch abbott or nacho who would you chose? i feel like their flips would yeild the most info becasue of how they are butting each other.

[ika]

after reading through, something about nachos last few post are just rubbing me the wrong way, im gonnna go grab them and elaborate and others.

incoming wall post, i need to empty thoughts

[ika]

Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does

not

mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.

I don't really understand all the scumreads ika has been getting. I might say I'm annoyed by his posting but it does feel genuine.

I don't particularly like LMB's entrance, just restating the case that emerald did before. Do give that buttload of evidence, though.

Im reading this post and this is one of those post that rubs me wrong after reading others and responses, Especialy the sencond part about me. It almost feels like you are trying to fencesit here. The last sentance really rubs me wrong if he is jk or think that his breadcumb for fk is not good. I personally disliked it as well due tot he fact on how stuble it was and how he expected everyone to see it. But i see where hes was coming from now.

Something I need to point out to the new players: people defending other people does

not

mean they are scumbuddies. Scumbuddies mostly avoid each other as to not draw attention to them.

The first sentence is correct. The second sentence is not correct. Different scum play differently. Trying to make a general statement about how scum plays can lead to you falling into the trap of "scum play this way so this is a sign that they're town" when really that's a scumtell for that person.

Trying to make scumpair calls before a flip is just not a good idea though. You've got no guaranteed information and trying to see those connections before you do can lead to severe bias with your reads.

Agreed, diffrent players have diffrent ways of interacting with scum buddies. this does bring a good idea for dicussion.

If you are scum, what kind of interactions do you do with your scum buddie(s), do you distance, buddy, bus, ect?

Hardcore defending at the start of day 1 usually means they are not scumbuddies, though.

Really? how so? can you elaborate on that?

Right now im conflicted between Abbott and you. Both of you are claissifed as the higher teir in this game. So i feel like you were trying to stop your train. But at the same accord, your train picked up speed quite quickly for silly reasoning. But others did have an idea.

I figure between abbott and you right now. One of you are scum and the ohter is town. Or this is an elaborate ploy of cross bussing. However i dont think you would take it to that level of play in a newbie game.

We may have plenty of time but right now my 2 primary fos are you and abbott with a smaller one on bjc for big buddying with me. However i will wait a bit and see what others have to say.

I think that the forming a dichotomy between Abbott and I so early is the dangerous sort of reasoning; there is e possibility that both of us just didn't mesh easily this game for no apparent reason. Why do you find me scummy? Why do you find Abbott scummy?

I find that is a possiblity that you guys just didnt mesh, but your current way of just kinda crusing/coasting and random shoutings of "person is town" off gut is odd. I do the same but your seems more confident they are towns. I have seen it that scums will call out towns, towns becasue they KNOW they are town. Not becasue they "think" they are town. Abbott i found scummy early on for somewhat of the same reasoning of just radomly calling you scum and wanting a train on you. There have been many times where i see ppl randomly be called town by scums becasue they knew it. Your gut calls almost feel like that its scum saying ppl are towns becasue they are and know it full well.

[ika]

@Nacho: I don't have a handle on your playstyle yet. Would you help me understand something? You seem to be the type of player who drops a lot of unsupported reads (So-and-so is scum. So-and-so is incredibly town).

Are these your genuine reads or are you just sharing your gut reactions or current thoughts based on their most recent content?

I am usually very wary of people who declare things with certainty this early in the game. There are but a few people who _know_ who is scum and who is town. Those people are scum. Since townies have no real incentive to lie, that sort of bold posturing puts me off.

They are genuine reads and generally not baseless. I've seen ika scum. I've seen ika town. I don't believe distinguishing between the two is difficult. Other reads are not as strong, but they are still leanings.

This post to me is unsettling becasue of how you are going "ika obvitown" based off so few games with me. The post to me is more saying "im scum and ikas not my scum buddy so hes town"

I have seen that in many games where a well known player i play with goes like that when their usal town play is to go at me with full force and then after a long time go "ok hes town"

here you just kinda went "ika town" i know im town but the speed of you slotting me town is unsettling to me, you have also done this with sevral other players just going "they are town" based off guts, but to me it feels less like a "gut call" and more like a "i know" call.

In nacho's 95 he scolds me for supposedly demanding content from him and then, in the same post, invites ika to call him out if he isn't paying enough attention to the game.

Curious.

I don't think that an extraordinary amount of content will be produced at this stage of the game.

It is fair to call me out if you see me posting elsewhere but not here, because that would be scummy.

Can you elaborate on this im not quite sure i understand what you mean here.

p-edit: let me finish my post dump then i will adress that im breaking it up into sevral posts

[ika]

How the heck did I OMGUS him? Lol... I started this. I am the one pressuring him, remember? Maybe we need to take a step back to page one for a moment.

As for your second paragraph, no. Maybe that's where the other votes are coming from, but that's not my motivation.

You pushed me because "IC wagon" and "OMGUS". I was the first to put actual pressure on.

Why do you think you were the first to put actual pressure on? I do agree his reason was "IC wagon" with possible OMGUS, but even OMGUS is technical pressure no matter how bad it is

No, the credibility is used up when it turns out you were wrong. The old story of the boy who cried wolf. That's all I'm saying.

Forceful is good. Confidence is fine if you really believe what you're saying.

It's over-confidence that bugs me.

Pretending like you _know_ something when in reality you just have a suspicion or a hunch.

Remember this started as a conversation about Nacho and his posts early in the game where he made snap decisions and presented them as fact. If I recall correctly he even directed one at you. "You probably shouldn't vote for town"

Content-less posturing.

Credibility is shot when I'm forceful about a read and that read turns out wrong, yes. So either I'm A) town with good reasoning for ika as town, or B) scum who believes there's a good case to make for ika town. Either way, there's a case for ika as town.

The bolded part is what i feel like is happening, you KNOW the people are town, so you are going "ya town there" and not a "gut town" there. As also stated you went at frost saying dont vote town. But some of your next posts come up contridcting it.

So either I'm A) town with good reasoning for ika as town, or B) scum who believes there's a good case to make for ika town. Either way, there's a case for ika as town.

C) town who is working off a gut reaction and has no good reason
D) town who has just picked someone at random to townread in hopes of starting discussion
E) scum who is bussing
D) scum who is distancing

Please don't present something as a A-B scenario when it could be any number of outcomes.

The commentary with that emoticon was "this accusation is dumb, you're probably not serious I hope".

That's fair and expected. But I don't know you and I can't read your mind. That's all I'm saying.

I'm telling you that C and D aren't true.
E and F dont make sense.

So lets go with C and D are not true. You have eliminated 2 town sloted ideas for yourself and are saying the next 2 are not nessacarly false, but are ridiculous. Are you saying that you are not town here and that you are scum?

[ika]

Guys if read my post, I breadcrumbed JK for a reaction test, and bjc immediately Omgus'd me by saying i'm scum, then ika voting me. Now I'm 50% sure of ika/bjc scumbuddying.

This is probably town.

This is one of those things that strikes me odd, you just say "probally town" Its not "confirmed town" but he has little contents and some of us had diffrent viewpoints on it but you just come in and say "probally town"

If its gut feeling it doesnt give me that vibe. It feels like its scum saying "ya i know hes town"

Vote: RobW

This is probably scum.

I feel good about ika town and RayFrost town. I feel decently about Abbott town, and LMB town.
I kind of like emerald but nothing too definitive, and bjc is starting to lean scum.

The game developed more so i can understand the new reads but it feels like you kinda forced it almost or you know they are town. The one thing that screams out to me though is the one person you did not mention, timeshift.

To me its showing distancing and wanting to avoid affliation with him if you are to flip scum. I mean early on you had abbott scum and maybe after some interaction you have second thoughts, but here it just looks like your not getting a train off him and that you need to take a new avenu.

I think that the forming a dichotomy between Abbott and I so early is the dangerous sort of reasoning; there is e possibility that both of us just didn't mesh easily this game for no apparent reason.

I have a tendency to create TvT squabbles, for the record.

Squabbles can create intresting actions. However after looking though it, if felt like yours was more town and his was more scum.

@LMB, can you break down this breadcrumb thing like I'm a total idiot? I just don't get it.

He made a post where the first letter of his first sentence was "J", and the second letter of his second sentence was "K" in order to see who would try to lynch him. I don't agree with the basis of the reaction test, but the fact that he did it read as pretty fucking town to me.

Again heres one of those post that feels like its scum saying "i know hes town"

I don't like LMB's play early on. So I'll keep my vote.

Cue ika's vote removal after nacho shows force.

no when im done i will place my vote i need to dump it all out atm

[ika]

Is the idea that he was trying to pretend like he was a PR?

Why would a PR use "JK" as a breadcrumb?

seek reactions? see if anyone reads inbeween the lines. really you have to ask the person themself.

well after all that i feel like nacho will give us the most information.

VOTE: nacho

his slotting most ppl as town for his reasoning are plausable but some of his post are just out there and seem off. His reads give indication that he knows that they are town and he is doing it to try to keep distance. He also has not given us anything on timeshift as if hes tring to distance himself from him while giveing reads about everyone else atm. my decision is 99.9% final on nacho/timshift.

timesift also seems to have the same type of posting where he says ray is "misguided town" and tbh i belive it, but if thats the case, how would he exactly know or be so accraute about something like that? im willing to go at these 2 atm.

[ika]

I have a meta read on you based on the site you play at with Titus and my own personal experiences with you. I've found the difference between both games pretty easy to distinguish between and don't think the call is particularly difficult to make (active vs not active). When you play with a player for a while and have a more intimate read of their meta, generally more information tends to obfuscate the read as you're known for reading that player, as you're pressured to read that player. I don't have that player and I don't have an excess of information, hence that read being a fairly easy one for me to make.

I'm saying that my inactivity, when it comes, is because I'm busy. If you have evidence to the contrary, call me out for it. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take me at my word when I say that I'm busy.

Well what you have been doing is somewhat of a mirror of what titus did when she quickly slotted me town, however we have more games played so i have a better handle on her. Here you have only seen very little of me but seem VERY confident in it. Your confidence in it seems too strong to be town and is more scum.

Ika, I've had games where I ignore my scum buddies, bus them, distance from them, buddy up to them, and done a mix of these for different people. I even had a game where I essentially let myself die in order for a buddy to be a completely solid and beautiful town read.

I don't consistently play well as scum, so naturally that must mean that my playstyle is inconsistent as well.

Fair enough, i would like to hear how others play as scum. I have seen some players have a consitency when playing scum.

[ika]

and with that my brain is shot.

when i do big posts liek those it takes a lot out of me, i will prob be around to watch but im gonna be in recovery mode.

[ika]

im tired but im gonna post this, if i die due to nk. Plz look into nacho/teirshift as scums

i feel like nachos reasoning for the vote on rob is highly unjustified and is looking at easly lynch pray right now. I will respond to all of your posts later. These are my 2 top scum suspects and i am not going to budge on these unless if someone gives me some damming evidence on someone.

i also want to bring up this post again

Vote: RobW

This is probably scum.

I feel good about ika town and RayFrost town. I feel decently about Abbott town, and LMB town.
I kind of like emerald but nothing too definitive, and bjc is starting to lean scum.

note how there is zero, i mean ZERO mention of terishift right now. everyone else is mentioned in his reads

[ika]

Very big lol at the bolded
I never said ray is misguided town?
Your case on both me and nacho makes no sense. Explain further please.

i may have ment someone elseon misguided town, but if you like i will do post by post on you and why i think you are scum for it. as well as nacho. you will need to give me about a good hr or 2 to do it, and by the end, my brain will be shot and will not be posting for a while.

but a short variation is based off your interactions.

[ika]

I like those posts by LMB. Has any real pressure been put on ika this game?

unovte; vote: ika

I don't believe so.

ya there has been i just dont care aobut it becasue i am town. If you have the need to ask me something go ahead. Im all for a lynch on me if it will show that nacho and time should be looked into. and should be next to be lynched after my flip

[ika]

Unvote, Vote: RobinWilliams

I am clearly never going to get support for the ika lynch because everyone just sees it as his ~playstyle~ (I really really

really

hate how much my games have been "rayfrost made a good case but it's untrue because it's ~playstyle~" lately).

And I am willing to vote here for [Reasons].

I actually support ika lynch very much.

Unvote, vote:ika

(Bcj and ika are both scum to me)

Ika: He's willing to put someone at l-1 without the majority agreeing. That's an extremely stupid and risky decision

unless

he's scum.

Spoiler: all the post from pg 4 so far

Hey so you wanted to see my town game right? Let's do this thing

So one thing makes me hesitate about bjc / ika scumteam: 16 it would surprise me a little for a scum to draw attention to a partner like this in the first post.

Other than that though, pretty much everything from them has felt scumteam.

The only other person who's posted anything is Abbott, but unfortunately it's all pretty null. Need more stuff from everyone.

Post 16 is why I had an early town slot on bjc, his awareness of my pregame post made me think he is town because i figured scums don't care about that stuff and would not pay attention. He was obviously aware of my pre-game post. The only other reason would be is if we were both scums, however i am not. It is possible that he is but right now its null-town coming from him atm.

How about stuff from you? What's with your vote on ika? What do you make of Robw's vote on ika?

Heres a good post, he trying to spark some discussion and trying to get reads on people here. I am starting to get irked by the big buddying of him and the votes on me. But its feels more genuine. One of the few things that makes me wonder is he wants contents from people but does not give contents of his own. I gave a good few questions for discussion but he has yet to answer them when he said he would.

Thanks for the link!
I'm probably not going to read it; just be obviously town and we will get along just fine.

He did that last game and coasted to a win as scum

Early game reads:
emerald town: is putting himself much more in the spotlights than he did in his scumgame+feels genuine.
Ika town: really trying to hunt but well...uh walling is not necessary. Great to see someone try, though.

Not seeing much scummy intent anywhere yet but I might reread some more.

VOTE: nacho
Get out of spectator mode.

To me this is 2 prong. This gives me more confidence in emerald being town due to you having experience with him. I didn't glance at his game because I was lazy but due to biassed reasons I am considering you town and will take that emerald is town.

Your reasoning for nacho seems also valid that if he is merely coasting and seems to be doing right now. It is becoming annoying and not helpful. He seems to be trying to take a null path. I first took it as IC trying to play neutral but looking back even as an IC should not coast like he is.

@bjc
I made a long post about why I voted ika (59), did you read it?
Yes, Robb W needs to come out and post.

@tiershift
Man, I really hope you are town this game. So you don't think ika and bjc are buddying?

This post gives me more confidence in you being town because of the second half thats addressed to tiershift. I do think you are sligtly stuck in the me and bjc buddying, but i am going to take it as a newbie thing. If one of us were to flip scum, then you should follow up on it. However there is also a flip-side that a scum will buddy with a strong town read to try to get them out. However I say that our "buddying" is more just general chat and discussion.

Nah, ika is town. Just look at the total lack of self-conciousness.
As for bjc buddying, define buddying.

Bjc, you got any experience? Sure seems like you do. Why do you think emerald is scum?
Abbott, why do you say wagons are the way out of RVS, then place a lone vote?

This gives me a good town read from you, you jump right in and start asking questions and want to obviously discuss things. You are obviously a player who has a few games under your belt and knows what you are doing.

@bjc
I made a long post about why I voted ika (59), did you read it?
Yes, Robb W needs to come out and post.

@tiershift
Man, I really hope you are town this game. So you don't think ika and bjc are buddying?

That didn't really look like a justification for voting but more like a, "hey guys, check this out."

Oh and yes I'd say that it looks like we're buddying. I can't say he's confirmed townie to me but I'm not the best at that.

Bjc, you got any experience? Sure seems like you do. Why do you think emerald is scum?

Yes. I originate from a sports-based website where I've played 3 or 4 games, then made my way here.

Admittedly, it's something small, but it struck me as something awful:

VOTE: ika

How's that for not random?

Note: I'm not one to call someone's play "bad" or call people names and pull some high-rank crap because I think that's annoying and I think people who make the "that post was so bad" kind of posts either:

-Can't properly explain what's wrong with the post
-or-
-Are 14 years old.

So why do I say this? To clarify that my use of awful was to describe how it jumped out at me, not that the substance was awful.

This post gives me a better understanding of how you play and what i should expect from you. It helps when I know what i should be expecting. Seeing how you only have 3-4 games played. You seems to have a good start. There are a few things that I do think you could improve on thoguh. But I will save that for post game

It awfully jumps out at you, but the substance isn't awful. Why is it scummy again?

If you want a wagon, vote nacho, IC wagons are cool.

It awfully jumps out at you, but the substance isn't awful. Why is it scummy again?

If you want a wagon, vote nacho, IC wagons are cool.

Well at the time it seemed scummy, almost OMGUS in nature but ika voted for nacho, not emeral.

Cool.

unvote; vote: nacho

this puts nacho at l-2.

VOTE: nacho

this is l-1, his coasting nature and trying to stay null at first looked like to me as an IC play but is more biassed of a reason and he should actually not be doing so and legitimately coming out to help. Also after ISOing him, his post stick out to me as scum for what they say.

Explain to my why the majority must agree to l-1 someone now? explain to me how l-1 someone is scummy. if i was scum, it would of benn easier to hide my vote in a big wall of that text and then have somoen accadently hammer, instead i clearly announce it that its l-1 after my spoiler post. i think you need to check again

[ika]

Actually if there is a cop, then you should claim now because following the cop would be a good idea. (At least better than lynching inactives)

did you notice how nach started the train as well and said its scummy. can you tell me what you think of that? i looked at it more of scum trying to look for easy way out of getting a lynch. Also i do think there is a cop, but the cop should not claim atm. instead maybe the cop can claim tommorow and we go from there.

[ika]

Also guys, I can't believe I'm saying this to a IC/SE, but are you FREAKING out of your mind? We have good scum reads and do not blindly lynch RobW for inactivity. He'll get replaced soon which is much better then wasting a lynch.

We're not blindly lynching anyone for inactivity.

oh really? plz tell me more how we are not blindly doing it for inactivity.

[ika]

Also guys, I can't believe I'm saying this to a IC/SE, but are you FREAKING out of your mind? We have good scum reads and do not blindly lynch RobW for inactivity. He'll get replaced soon which is much better then wasting a lynch.

Plz show your evidence to this, i would like to see it. Maybe i can show you how it is not scummy or where you maybe misunderstand.

[ika]

Oh I forgot about RB, but still cop/tracker/jailkeeper should target one of bcj,ika, or abbott.

What about every other player?

[ika]

Yes i just spammed many post but it is to force people to read each one instead of saying "big wall of text, ignore"

[ika]

You mean tl;dr, right?

thats when im doing cases on things or players. the spam of post was for DLM to respond to as well as the others. scince you want to wagon me. and i am kinda here (tired atm). what would you like to know. throwing pressure and then saying "lets see" wont accomplish anything. So ask me questions

[ika]

That whole sentence is just wifom. Using reverse-psychology as a defense.

no, i think you are overanalizing it now, lets take a setp back for one moment, you seems confused and mind-trapped i am scum. lets take this by scnario

what will you do when you find out im town

If you put someone at l-1, scum can quickhammer easily. And the person being hammered is most likely not scum if everyone else doesn't read him as scum. Getting peoples' agreement is important.

not exactly, if someone quick-hammered and he fliped town, the hammer voter would have a lot of explaining to do. if he was qucik hammered and fliped scum then its an entire diffrent scnario. i think you are too mind set right now.

agreement is important but l-1 is not needed for agreement, a lynch vote should be more agreed on, not l-1.

if you think l-1 needs agreement plz explain why. what would have to be more important then hammer voting? why does the majority need to agree for a player to do an action? a player should have the free mind to chose what to do and decide. if anything majority should agree on is a hammering. not a mere l-1 vote on day one.

in LOYL (or whatever it is) maybe then i could see more incentive, but here, its not going to do much to get an agreement to l-1 a player.

[ika]

and i was being open to you witht the staement, im here, ask me questions. not asking is not doing anything. right now all i see is

"ika is scum, vote him" but i dont see the reasoning. is there something that you are not understanding that i need to clarify?

[ika]

1. That's the point, you are scaring us and using wifom to make us think that you are town. Ask an IC/SE.

2. Because it puts the player at danger of scum quickhammer, and if the majority doesn't think he's scum then he is most likely town. So it's best to get everyone's agreement or else scum might hammer a town player.

1] no i am asking you becasue you are the one who think im scum. they are moot. let me ask you, do my post show any fear? i am asking you openely to ask me questions instead of walling up and refuting everything. you are stuck in a tunnel that i am scum when i know i am not. i am asking you a simple question

"when i flip town, what will you do?" how will you go about it? dont give me the "you will flip scum answer" becasue that is wrong

2. well it takes 50% to bring them to l-1 and majority to hammer so if somoen hammers its

A] they flip scum
B] they flip town

the agreement would be to hammer not l-1. remmeber a LYNCH is majority, l-1 is just half.

can ic/se maybe clarify what i am trying to tell him here. im not sure if hes being dense or does not understand what i am saying here.

[ika]

Ye dun vote my scumbuddy u bastard

The better response would have been to explain.
Please do so.

Does anyone else see scum buddy interaction in this post? or if one of them were to flip scum the other would have a high chance of following suit?

[ika]

Sheeping a good case=weak?

P-edit: nope no scumbuddy intreaction there sorry

I was asking others, not you. Your answer is obvious. Care to clarify why it has no chance of scum buddy interaction then.

[ika]

Sheeping a good case=weak?

P-edit: nope no scumbuddy intreaction there sorry

I was asking others, not you. Your answer is obvious. Care to clarify why it has no chance of scum buddy interaction then.

You can say every interaction is a scum interaction and then ask to disprove it. Burden of proof is on you my friend. First point out why you think it is a scum interaction, then ask for people's opinions on that.

I will in due time, i would like to hear other peoples iput before i go at it

[ika]

That is such a lame vote. Good job enabling scum to sit on my wagon.

well im here too, and i have yet to move my vote, your stance is starting to sound liek "you cant lynch me bro"

i will say now, if you act cocky like that, it is a quick way for me to get a policy vote on you from me unless if you have reason. i have found scums act more cocky then town.

and yes if you keep up your cockyness i will hammer

[ika]

Why the hell is cockiness scummy?
How is bjc in any way expressing cockiness?

its not always scummy, it just find that scums do it more often.

That is such a lame vote. Good job enabling scum to sit on my wagon.

this to me reads a null-cocky attitude. but its just kinda what m getting from it. i still kinda get a town from him but his continued way is starting to reach out to me as "you wont lynch me"

[ika]

Sorry then.

Fwiw your rob vote is weaker, do something with your vote. What do you think your vote on rob will accomplish?

At this point? Lynching scum.
It amazes me that everyone else apparently thinks that there's a chance of this guy being town.

He's null and you aren't gonna convince me otherwise on the basis of 4 empty posts.

Why do you think he playing the way he is?
Do you not think the posting to avoid replacement is a little bit sketchy despite apparently having no interest in the game whatsoever?

ever thought of board citizen (or vt as you guys call it)? i dont doubt he could be scum but ive seen citizen do almost no content post becasue they are just board. also if he does flip town you would become another big target becasue you are the one who started it.

[ika]

I think there's a little bit to be gained by the RobW flip, not a whole lot though. I think we're in a bind though: He posts just enough to not get replaced. So... What the hell is his usefulness to us?

@ ika - Want to know why I feel like "you won't lynch me?" Because I'm town. Just like you said you don't feel threatened due to being town, I feel like I won't be lynched because I'm town. There's a reason I'm wanting to know if someone has intent to hammer.

So tell me: Do you have a serious intent to hammer?

the way you are posting, yes. even if you are town your becoming over-confident in it. i know im town and i feel like i have scums pegged but your "im gonna flip town what willl you do then" is more harmful for town then helpful atm.

towns should not being "lynch me and see im town" they should be giving out final reads and claiming a role and maybe pointing out the scums that are voting you. that being said

if i end up dying i want ppl to take my 2 biggest scum reads and look into it

teirshift and nacho

one if not both are probally scum

[ika]

"Scums do it more often". Where do you get this information from?

in my personal expeince, i have found scums to be the cocky ones, this may be a player biass type thing but its what i tend to perceve it as unless i have them as town or it is their typical playstlye

[ika]

gtg get ready for work

everyone thinkg about teri/nacho scum partners i cant shake the feeling that they are the scums

[ika]

Uh in 331 I try to imply that I thoroughly agree with ray's 314, if that wasn't clear. The sudden change because reasons stated in posts you quoted, I think I was wrong before and I'm right now.
I think that feeling is very much applicable to you and not to emerald.

You still don't explain why there is scum on your wagon.

a bigger burden of proof would be is if he flips town, if he flips scum hteres nothing to prove, here if he were to flip town it would come ot he burden of you.

[ika]

What do you mean by the stupid newbie comment?

Still waiting, TierShift.
So far the only arguments I can hear for not lynching Rob are "what if he is town? Lurking isn't scummy!" and "what information do we gain from his lynch?" which are both piss poor arguments that don't actually address his changes of being scum. Rob is posting the barest minimum that he can get away with without being replaced. What does this mean as far as his alignment goes? This means that he's meeting the minimum quota to stay under the game, his one and only vote balanced out an ika wagon with an emerald wagon (funny, because that's who I think is his scum partner). If he didn't want to play, he wouldn't have to.

Normally

, when newbies get bored, they replace out.

Rob has an investment that's large enough to warrant him logging onto this site every few days to make sure that he doesn't get replaced, and yet his posts show absolutely no impetus to catching scum, no intent to catch scum, nothing. Do you think it's because he doesn't know what to do? No, he can ask for help if he needs it; that's what I'm here for. Do you think it's because every time he logs on his fingers are so frozen that he can only type out a word or two at best? Because that's the best explanation I can see here other than "he's scum".

i bolded the important part, and underlined the more important word. you are going with what "normally" happens. alwasys expect unexpected

[ika]

ok i came back and to see hes still looming l-1

dooes anyone else find it odd how non else had intention to hammer yet?

also i got an activity for everyone do a read list, however it mmust have the following constraints

3 people must be pegged as scum no more no less
at least 1 person must be pegged as town
the rest can any flavor or read
you must not give any reasoning for you reads.
you are not to question any of the reads anyone gives untill a fair amount of people give them (lets make it like 6-7 ppl)
ic/se must be part of this

think of this as an activity for dicussion.


im gonna adress a few post first and then do this. if you refuse to i will consider it anti-town and scummy.

[ika]

Sorry for being gone so long, signing up for three games simultaneously was a mistake but I'm still going to try to win this thing.

I know this isn't the most useful, but here's what I was thinking as I caught up:

176: I don't like the way ika just throws shit around. Bleh... could be town though

that is more of a gut feeling, however after work (where i tend to think and reflect on my games im in, made me rethink it)

182: "I have had a bad experience with ppl makign cases and have them flipping towns and then follow them again." I can deal with the terrible spelling and grammar (although I wish I didn't have to), but I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say here.

clairfication: on my home site, many times i would sheep cases that people has made on others, and many times they would flip town. come the end of the game, the person who made all those cases were scums. so it leaves a sour taste to me

as for grammar, im kinda lazy with it. its more of a quirk i have. i do try to fix it for the most part but capitalization and stuff i kinda ignore.

193: this sounds a lot like the case I made earlier, except with quote walls.

225 & 227: I agree, except about ika.

246: So saying anything with confidence is a scumtell?

theres a difference between saying with confidence, and saying with knowing. Allow me to clarify.

The way i am reading it is nacho is scum, and in this game the scums know each other, therefore it is easy for them to say "person is town" because they KNOW, a thing i look for is how quickly and why do they slot people town. Nacho seems to be slotting town people as town because he knows it not just thinks it

256: Hard to put my finger on, but bjc sounds so submissive all the time, feels bad to me.

to me, it feels like its town who is undecided and doesnt want to screw up, however it could be scum as well. i think its the former though.

257: "if i die due to nk. Plz look into nacho/teirshift as scums" wtf is this? Why would anyone nk you? Don't like.

well i am town, and scums goal is to eliminate town, if i die to nk it could be because i am onto something. An impotrant thing to look at is when someon gets nk, one of the first questions to ask is "why were they nked" for me this could be a reason, i thinki found the scum team so they will want to take me out. However this is also be dubbed a WIFOM trick.

282: Whaaat? No.

355: Abbott never quite makes my radar ping either way. Everything he does seems reasonable, but kinda bland or something.

thank you for point that post out, theres something im gonna point out that i would want more exclamation on and is very scummy to me

376: "if i end up dying" This again. Someone who knows what's up, is constantly saying you'll get night-killed a scum tell? Cause I'm thinking it is.

It can be, however as said earlier it can also be a WIFOM for survival. It has many reasons behind it, mines is to say if i do this is what i want you guys to look into as my final request.

386: Oh man, I went from town vibes to scum partner. That's what I get for being AFK I guess.

Im slightly confused what you mean by that elaborate please?

UP TO DATE READS

TOWN
Nachomamma - I agree with almost every post from him that isn't about ika
lynch me bro - newbtown all the way
RayFrost - I like your ability to write in complete paragraphs
Abbott - null still
tiershift - aggressively townreading me, not sure if this is a test
ika - badfeels
bjc - probably scum
Rob W - The real test will be if we get him to L-1
SCUM

bjc and Rob are tied for last, I am fine with lynching either. I will put some more thoughtful posts together in a bit.

[ika]

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

Getting scared bro? That just confirms my read on bcj. Obvious scum escaping his lynch by attempting to convince us to inactive lynch Rob.

no hes rather calm imo, hes being annoyed though. its possible but theres something i want to point out in someones post

[ika]

Alright. Rob clearly isn't going to be pressured, so that vote is useless until we make a decision about lynching him.

UNVOTE:

I'm comfortable putting bjc at L-1. His self-proclaimed "go with the flow" attitude towards D1 doesn't mesh well with my ideal townie profile. I do like that he isn't actively over-defending himself, but I'm starting to read that as scum playing it cool.

All in all, I think he's a solid choice. We will learn a thing as a vote count analysis and some ISOing should yield good info on D2 regardless of his flip.

My mind could be changed for a Rob lynch if anybody is down for that.

VOTE: bcj

I bolded the part that i find rather disturbing, no im going to break it down.

I'm comfortable putting bjc at L-1.

what makes you so comfortable making him l-1? a person shouldnt hesitate to put someone l-1 unless they know they are not going to be ninja hammered or are scum.

His self-proclaimed "go with the flow" attitude towards D1 doesn't mesh well with my ideal townie profile.

so its not an ideal townie but you are willing to risk it anyway?

I do like that he isn't actively over-defending himself, but I'm starting to read that as scum playing it cool.

is it me or does this contradict the last sentence quoted? I could see scum playing cool. But this statement seems to contradict the entirety of putting him at l-1 and all your reasoning.

VOTE: abbott

im more intrested in you right now. my nacho case doesnt seems to be going anywhere atm so i might as well go to new grounds

[ika]

now for the reads

also, you must exclude yourself on the reads


bjc - null
TierShift - scum
Rob W - null
Lynch Me Bro - noob-town
emeraldemon 1 - null-town
RayFrost (SE) - null-town
AbboTT (SE) - scum
Nachomamma8 (IC)- scum

[ika]

@ika: that was such incredibly weak sauce.

I don't know that there's any part of that loaded mess of questions I can begin to answer.

start with "what makes you so comfortable making him l-1?"

right now your post just seems like OMGUS. im more then happy to be proven wrong. but im just kinda going on gut right now.

[ika]

i would want bjc to claim though. its rather disturbing that hes l-1 and has not claimed

[ika]

It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum

He's got a point here...

And why haven't you unvoted if you feel my point is valid?

also this.

[ika]

Mother of god, waking up at 4 in the afternoon because I'm sick as a dog and took the day off to find a posting explosion.

Going to leave my vote on rob, I do not have intent to hammer as of right now due to the fact that we have so much more to discuss. We've got time, no need to rush the lynch.

I am not really a fan of reasonless reads posts, but I guess I'll do it to satisfy ika. It will be done via a spectrum: the closer they are to the word, the stronger I read them as that.

Town
Nacho
Ika
-------- (space to show distance)
Abott
Tiershift
Lyme
--------
Emerald
Rob bjc
Scum

we will get to that later. just bear with me atm with this reasonless thing

[ika]

start with "what makes you so comfortable making him l-1?"

Well look whose talking here. *facepalm* First, what makes

you

so comfortable putting nacho at l-1?

What about "ninja-hammering" huh?

i didnt phrase it like he did. i said "im l-1ing him"

Also notice how ika puts bcj at null even though bcj has a shitload of content.

becasue his last few post are looking quite scumym and screams survivalism

contents=/=town, i would elaborate but i feel like you are just going to go "nope"

frost if you are here could you claify the contents=/=town for him i fell like he will listen to you more.

[ika]

now all we need is nachos at least and i can continue the activity. although emralds and robs would also be nice

[ika]

nacho i can see your elsewhere on site, plz come do this activity

3 people must be pegged as scum no more no less
at least 1 person must be pegged as town
the rest can any flavor or read
you must not give any reasoning for you reads.
you are not to question any of the reads anyone gives untill a fair amount of people give them (lets make it like 6-7 ppl)

frost already seems to know what im doing with this, im sure you know. and i bet a few others are figuring it out but you list is needed as well otherwise i feel like the entire thing is moot

[ika]

@My list: I have no idea why ika wants 3 scumreads but sure, draw the line between ray and nacho then.

@Bjc: I don't give a shit if you use the word if or not, you are definitely voicing your approval of a PL pretty heavily, even if you don't vote rob.

is your list legitimate or are you going "heres a list leave me alone"

[ika]

@tiershift:

@Bjc:

Why are you trying so hard to be useless to the town?

[ika]

My first list was legitimate but then I needed to have 3 scumreads for some reason so after putting rob and nacho down with bjc it wasn't

not sure if you just scum, or just noob.

you understand the flaw with just one scum read right?

[ika]

Great participation today guys. We're really making progress.

would it make you haippier if i just hammered you now so we have stuff to do dommorow? i want nach to come on and give me his list so we can do the activity

mod could you prod nacho or alert him?

ive noticed hes been elsewhere on site and am unsure if hes aware of this one still

[ika]

mod could you prod nacho or alert him?

He's not in the prod range yet.

:/

if he doesnt come on in next few hours i will have to do it w/o his list.

[ika]

Great participation today guys. We're really making progress.

would it make you haippier if i just hammered you now so we have stuff to do dommorow? i want nach to come on and give me his list so we can do the activity

Why so hostile towards someone you list as null whilst listing others as scum?

That just makes a ton of sense.

Still waiting on emeraldemon to make an appearance.

becasue the posts you have been making recently have not been helpful and are becoming increasinly unhelpful and to a point of anti-town to me.

you want contens, you make it. post something say something. quote a random post and make a comment. thats how you start things when its dead. you need to learn to generate contnets.

i want to find scums as much as the next person and i love being a town leader type person, but in this kind of setting im trying to hold it back becasuse it can sometimes backfire on me greatly, im also wanting to learn myself

[ika]

i mean if you want to make contenets, look at your wagon and see whos voting you. point out why its bad, point out whos the scum on your wagon and why

[ika]

Just because someone null reads you, doesn't mean your totally scum-proof to him/her. About to be lynched here bcj, any last words/defenses?

you know hes been sitting at l-1 for a while now right and your vote is on him? are you expecting a hammer anytime soon or what?

[ika]

thnks for clarifying, could you also do the activity when you are done

3 people must be pegged as scum no more no less
at least 1 person must be pegged as town
the rest can any flavor or read
you must not give any reasoning for you reads.
you are not to question any of the reads anyone gives untill a fair amount of people give them (lets make it like 6-7 ppl)
ic/se must be part of this

[ika]

@ika why do you want exactly three scum reads? Sounds like an artificial line.

its an activity. just bear with it.

[ika]

the rest can be null or null-scum just one needs to be town

[ika]

VOTE: rob w


im gonna go get the lists and compile it all and show it off i got a lot of shit to do so im gonna try to make it breif

[ika]

Spoiler:

now for the reads

also, you must exclude yourself on the reads


bjc - null
TierShift - scum
Rob W - null
Lynch Me Bro - noob-town
emeraldemon 1 - null-town
RayFrost (SE) - null-town
AbboTT (SE) - scum
Nachomamma8 (IC)- scum

Mother of god, waking up at 4 in the afternoon because I'm sick as a dog and took the day off to find a posting explosion.

Going to leave my vote on rob, I do not have intent to hammer as of right now due to the fact that we have so much more to discuss. We've got time, no need to rush the lynch.

I am not really a fan of reasonless reads posts, but I guess I'll do it to satisfy ika. It will be done via a spectrum: the closer they are to the word, the stronger I read them as that.

Town
Nacho
Ika
-------- (space to show distance)
Abott
Tiershift
Lyme
--------
Emerald
Rob
bjc
Scum

Alright.

Bcj-scum
Ika-leaning scum
Abbott-leaning scum
Rayfrost-leaning town
Nacho-leaning town

Rest is null, need to read more.

ika's read activity:

Town
RayFrost
Nacho

ika
LMB
Tiershift (Albeit uncooperative/lazy as fuck)

RobW
AbboTT
Emeraldemon
Scum

I did one pretty recently, but:
town
ika
ed
LMB

abbott
ray

nacho
rob
bjc
scum

3 people must be pegged as scum no more no less
at least 1 person must be pegged as town
the rest can any flavor or read
you must not give any reasoning for you reads.
you are not to question any of the reads anyone gives untill a fair amount of people give them (lets make it like 6-7 ppl)

scum

BCJ
Kaze
ED

--
ika
RobW
Nacho
Nic
--

town

TS
LMB
RF

TOWN
Nachomamma
lynch me bro

RayFrost
bjc
Abbott

ika
tiershift
Rob W
SCUM

TOWN:
Ika
Abbott
Ray
LMB

LEAN TOWN:
TierShift
Bjc

LEAN SCUM:
Emerald

SCUM:
Rob

Will post more substantial content tomorrow.

[ika]

mod could you fix the spoiler

im gonna devide this into 2 posts at least

[ika]

towns counts:
ika: 3
bjc: 0
TierShift: 1
Rob W: 0
Lynch Me Bro: 6
emeraldemon 1: 0
RayFrost (SE): 4
AbboTT (SE): 1
Nachomamma8 (IC): 3

nulls:
ika: 2
bjc: 3
TierShift: 4
Rob W: 3
Lynch Me Bro: 2
emeraldemon 1: 3
RayFrost (SE): 3
AbboTT (SE): 3
Nachomamma8 (IC): 1

scum:
ika: 2
bjc: 4
TierShift: 2
Rob W: 5
Lynch Me Bro: 0
emeraldemon 1: 3
RayFrost (SE): 0
AbboTT (SE): 3
Nachomamma8 (IC): 2

[ika]

i might of fucked up somewher ebut im tired and this was a lot more work then expected. top it off with other shit and crap.

so anyway, what i have concluded from this and what we should take from this now that i looked through it is

town and scum agree lmb is town

rob is more likly to flip town due to majority scum reading him, that is unless his partner is planing on bussing him and going solo.

teirshift has the biggest null-scum read and should most likely be the flip becasue of the huge uncertenty and will most likely yeild the most info

UNVOTE:

VOTE: TierShift

[ika]

i also get a feeling the bjc train was a scum directed one due to his high scum-null reads and lacks of intent to hammer. im gonna take a snooze but use this list to make some deuctions on who is town and who is not atm. our best idea is to lynch the null-scums

[ika]

If you're gonna refer to it some following day to catch scum imma be mad.

i feel like this post should be elaborated on. this screams anti-town to me.

also anyone else think the scum pairing could be a rob/teirshift?

or at least tesir is one of them?

[ika]

as of now im down for teir/rob lynch

teri based off how the activity wend and he has the most null out of it.

rob more becasue his lack of contents atm and his unhelpfulness, although his lynch does feel like its kinda polocy

[ika]

Guys we are definitely not lynching an inactive over someone who has been scum read a lot. Stop focusing on Rob's inactivity and being oblivious to scum tells.

First choice to lynch would be the person that dropped the most scumtells and second would be policy lynch, scum tells are always first. Bcj is using Rob's inactivity to his advantage and trying escape his lynch.

point out his scum-tells

bjc has had a fair share of stupid post, but not really scum-post worthy. im more down for rob atm if nobody is willing to go with teir atm.

[ika]

also did you just completely ignore my list that i compiled?

[ika]

Woops. I got the prod, didn't pay attention to time while I was waiting for ika's grannnd post.

I'll content in the next couple of days

its there now.

[ika]

I make short posts, yes, but that's not because I'm disinterested. I think you're scum, I have stated why and placed my vote. I don't have much to comment right now, if you want me to explain something or want to ask something feel free.

why do you tunnel him so badly and want to stall the rob lynch?

[ika]

tier, lets play a game

lets say we lynch bjc and he flips town.

who would your next strongest suspect be and why. Why are you so unwilling to lynch an inactive player who has an equal chance at being scum?

[ika]

Because he has offered nothing to relieve my suspicions and keeps acting survivalistic as fuck.

I don't stall the robw lynch, I disapprove of it entirely. If we really really have nothing better at deadline and no one else wants to lynch bjc, I will hammer rob but not happily.

P-edit:
I suppose my next biggest suspicion would be nacho, for his big weak case on a lurker who is unlikely to defend himself. Lynching lurkers is not the way to go in newbie games and nacho knows that.

What do you mean with equal chance of being scum?
Everyone starts out with a 25% chance of being scum (8 other players/2 scum) and I have seen nothing from robw to chance this percentage, while I think bjc has a much bigger chance to flip scum.
This equal percentage talk is awful.

then why did you reidicule my scum hunting tequneque? my list idea. right now you had the most null from everyone. Really if we were to lynch anyone it should be you. you have played middleman and not building case on bjc.

is he playing survivalism? yes
could he be scum? yes
is he scum? heck if i know
will lynching him yeild information? most likely

his listing:

town: 0
null: 3
scum: 4

you have a more diverse one though

TierShift

town: 1
null: 4
scum: 3

yours is more scattered so your flip would yeild more info is how i see it. i wouldnt mind seeing a bjc flip either but im much more intrested in your flip then his or robs

[ika]

ika - I have two listed as town, three as null, three as scum.

im refering to what others have you as

[ika]

My first list was legitimate but then I needed to have 3 scumreads for some reason so after putting rob and nacho down with bjc it wasn't

not sure if you just scum, or just noob.

you understand the flaw with just one scum read right?

So I should invent scumreads? That makes no sense.

If you're gonna refer to it some following day to catch scum imma be mad.

post like these are just some of the few examples. espcialy the second one. why be mad at my wa of outing scums?

[ika]

ika, how do you feel about my case on bjc?

I'm thinking your way of scumhunting with that activity was useless and I have said why in 510

what you think was useless now might be useful later. you can be surpirsed how some things that seem so stupid or moot come back at you. it is kinda more useless on day 1, but it has its uses in long run.

Many players do diffrent tactics to catch scums, it just how it plays out.

[ika]

This is not how it works. Scumhunting is not something that can be quantified like this.

and to maybe come back to this, scum hunting comes in many forms. it can be quatified. look at the lmb count. 6 players slotted him town.

why did a majority slot him town?
did both scums slot him town?
did anyone scum read him?

now if anyone decided to say "meh he could be scum" we can point back to this. also anyone (rob for example) was heavely slotted as scum by 5 people.

well then why is he not at l-1?
why is he not hammered?
why is a majority reading him as scum?
maybe hes is town?

see i have now caused a list of questions and done a PoE for the most point to eliminate LMB and probally rob from the scum pile. what i did was not in vain. what i did was actauly quite informative

[ika]

VOTE: bjc

becasue apparently im not going to get a teir flip which would yeild info.

but rob flip will yeild almost no info. so bjc flip will yeild most info atm.

i also did it to allow us to figure out who thinks about who. and gives us a general sense of who is being a strong town read and whos a strong scum read

[ika]

I have no idea how this is gonna help us.

P-edit:
next time announce that we are at

LYNCH -1

first part: easy PoE

second part: sor

[ika]

Spoiler: PoE

easier to read version

town-null-scum

ika
3-2-2

overall: null

bjc
0-3-4

overall: null-scum

tier
1-4-2

overall: null

rob
0-3-5

overall: scum

lmb
6-2-0

overall: town

emrald
0-3-3

overall: null-scum

ray
4-3-0

overall: null-town

abbott
1-3-3

overall: null

nacho
3-1-2

overall: null-town

by this we can most likely deduct the following

i am still a canidate for scum (however i know i am not)

bjc has a good chance of being scum due to a mix null-scum read

teir has the biggest unknown due to the most null

rob is most likely town due to the higher count of scum then null read. however does work vice versa

lmb is town due to the majority of high town reads

emerald has a null read so he is possible canidate for scum

ray is town due to him having high town-null reads with 0 scum reads

abbott has a good null-scum so could be scum

nacho has a diverse town-scum read so could go either way

[ika]

You're making it too easy for the scum, but okay.

Apparently anything I post is discredited/wrong/survivalist by the fact that I'm scum according to Tier.

if you flip town im gunnung at teir next most likely jsyk.

[ika]

rob is most likely town due to the higher count of scum then null read. however does work vice versa

I do not follow.

im doing this off the top of my head with the numbers

we have 2 scums and 7 towns in this 9 player game

the players gave 2 nulls and 5 scum counts on him with 0 reasoning.

doesnt that seem like its a tell that hes really town that a majority of players are scum reading him atm but not voting him?

everyone else is focused on bjc right now and you are in tunnel mode on him. his post are survialistic now, and if hes town he should be giving out reads one people and point out the scums on his trian.

my thing on you is you keep pushing he scum, others are kinda meh with it. how i see it is that if he flips town, you would be next to be looked at due to pushing his train so hard and wanting to stop the rob train so hard.

if people are willing to switch votes to you, i think you would give most information due to how many have you nulled in reads. your actions also on your unwillingness to by lynch should alos be an indicator

[ika]

So you really think lynching me is a good option?

If so, should I just self-hammer?

I think lynching me may help. It could also lead to a day 2 mislynch. I dunno, I think there are better people to be lynched, but considering there are only three of us posting really, I guess I'm screwed!

p-edit: I've told you who I think is scum. Emeraldemon. I've shown why I think he's scummy.

I think AbboTT is meh.
Tier is meh.

Screw this, lol.

if your town it will only shed light onto teir and others who pushed on you. sometimes as town you find yourself in a hole that cant be gotten out of. but when you do it will backfire on others. teir for example right now is the only one who has heavly pushed on your lynch and not rob. so if you flip town, odds are he will be next on the block.

can you link me to the emerald case again?

[ika]

hmmm i just isoed him, i do see what you mean.

food for though bjc, teir/emrald scum team possible?

[ika]

that is under assumption you flip town

[ika]

460 was a good post to point out as well...

theres too much uncertenty atm, i have work and gonna think about it.

so for now UNVOTE:

so nobody ninja hammers while im gone

[ika]

work is where i like to reflect on my games. and sometimes helps me clear my mind

[ika]

be lynched

typo sorry.

yes eveeryone hates being lynched, yes nobody wants to be lynched. but how i see it atm is bjc is realizing that maybe both scums are on his train atm if he were to flip town. your reaction to "lets lynch you" to 0 pressure atm was really defensive to me. almost as if you are afraid of being lynched. towns should not fear a lynch as much as scums should.

i mean he sat at l-1 for what? like 2-3 days? why did scum never hammer him? someone could of gone "didnt notice" but nobody said anything, nobody but me had intention of hammering. nobody really even objected to it. see where im going with this. if hes to flip town. odds are both scums are in the train already and the vc is there to prove it.

[ika]

im down with that idea. i knew my activity had a fair share of flaws and such. but i think it was a good starting point to get things going

[ika]

Rant Post

That sums up that post for the most part. im gonna see what i missed

[ika]

Well I don't think we're supposed to read or reference other ongoing games, so I can't really use that.

theres a line between refering to players posting elsewhere and refering it to where its OGC, hes talking in a general sense that he has posted elsewhere all the same. nothign gaem breaking.

VOTE: emeraldemon

becasue all you have done of recently is lurk and rant and only focus on bjc and not helped. right now bjc brings more vaild points on you atm. he was at l-1 for quite some time where a scum could of came and dropped a nice hammer, heck i had intention to hammer and nobody seems to have said "wait lets think" (maybe frost did) but your recent post are saying teir is scum and bjc is scum. and just flaiing that ppl are scum when its starting to read OMGUS to me. lets see how you react.

[ika]

lets see how you react.

I don't like this for two reasons:
- I want him lynched; this needs to have intent of lynching, not to only put pressure on him.
- Stating that it's for pressure will do nothing.

why do you want him lynched then? we arent making progress anywhere so might as well put pressure elsewhere.

right now with the drawing deadline its either you or rob atm. that is unless ppl are willing to swap votes around. also my vote anywhere else isnt going to do much atm. i cant threaten him with lynch unless others are willing to jump on.

[ika]

Others should swap doe. TS, you know you're starting to doubt ED being town. Nacho, you pegged ED as scum #2. Let's do it, folks. At least L-1.

There's a problem...it's not likely that you both are scum...and

I also like you for scum for the shitton of reasons mentioned.

This good followup on ED makes you slightly less likely to be scum though.
But I liked ED sp much at the start...
I'll make up my mind in the afternoon.

Got any of your own reasoning or are you just scum.

[ika]

yes welcome i had you null-townish. im starting to feel ike my reads on who i think is scum is becoming biassed, so im most likely gonna be in sheep mode for this emeral/bjc lynch. they both have irked me to where i can see both of them being scum. so as of now im following who im strongest town reading. day 2 after a flip i will be able to have a refreshed amount of reads. i feel like i looked too hard into day 1 atm

[ika]

'Nacho reads someone as scum so they are scum' is not a valid reason. Please tell me the reason as to why nacho is onto him, because you said you know that reason.

here, what do you think first?

[ika]

it seems like we have 4 of us here at the moemnt. this is good we can maybe have a contstant discussion going on to maybe clear my thoughts up as well.

[ika]

rob is

more likly to flip town

due to majority scum reading him, that is unless his partner is planing on bussing him and going solo.

it was based off the activity did but was also kinda flawed, frost showed the flaws and how it might not be the case.

im more down for rob atm

if nobody is willing to go with teir atm.

this was more of gut, i jus think im reading too hard into everyones post to the point where in my mind thinks it scummy.

[ika]

Question for ika:

Let's say deadline was in five minutes, and there were two wagons at L-1; one on me and the other on ED.

Who would you choose in those five minutes?

yours becasue it would yeild more info for me, you were stitting at l-1 for quite some time and your flip would be more informative to me.

you may but to be sitting at l-1 for a hefty time frame, scums had a chance to hammer at any point. i would look into who was on your train afterwards if you fliped town. odds would be that one or both scums were on your train, i wouldnt buy an entire town driven train on town in a newbie game

[ika]

btw ika here's a suggestion, never say things like "If I die during the night look at X" because if you both are town guess who scum is going to kill for a frame job.

semi-joking response: but nacho is? ive seen him do it elsewhere on site and in newbie games

[ika]

yes nobody wants to be lynched.

My fatalistic meta begs to differ

Sorry i just had to comment on that

well it depends on role you have, if we have a jester (btw on our home site jester is not gmae ending and is commonly a possible role) then you are more inclined to not wanting to be lynched. i know there are scnarios where you do but im kinda refering it to gerneal sense in this one atm

[ika]

So let's lynch ED dammit. Once ED saw I was in no danger of getting hammered he made some big post about how "oh look bjc is null now."

VOTE: bjc

l-1

enough of your survivalism play. at this point your play is becoming more hindeirng to me then helpful if your town. you are starting to act like you want to stall your own lynch.

[ika]

......... Okay. Whatever, someone hammer me so I can play in a different newb game.

so thats it? your just giving up? thats all i needed to know.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: emerald

reaction passed.

[ika]

enough of your survivalism play. at this point your play is becoming more hindeirng to me then helpful if your town.

......... Okay. Whatever, someone hammer me so I can play in a different newb game.

^
Does this look like survivalist to you?
And if his play is hindering you then you're effectively pushing for a policy lynch, now that i finished reading im thinking on bjc as more town. Maybe because I've been in his position before.
Also Ika leaning more scum =/

it was a pure test to see his breaking point, he sat at l-1 for a very long time, and he continued to tryt o stall it out and push elsewhere. at first i thought it was flail scum, but his continued fight makes me think hes town. also his last post saying "fuck it lynch me" was all i needed to know to make me think hes town.

i still feel like there was survivalism play in it but it wasnt scum driven survivalism.

[ika]

BS ika, you're still worth looking into next day. If there's a cop, you should be investigated by them.

i welcome this cop to check me. you seemed to have missed the entire point of my putting you at l-1. i have goten the info i needed

[ika]

How on earth is TS's above post pro town in any way?

he had most null, tats why i wanted to lynch him so badly. his flip would give most info

[ika]

Hi. Intent to hammer once sakura catches up.

Hi i'm done catching up, and also gotten quite a few interactions that strengthen/weaken my reads, if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Also ED is L-2 atm i think.

this is more of just se getting to know you better, kinda related stuff but has some reasoning but im out of good questions atm

thoughts on gambits? scum and town aligned?
how long have you played mafia?
preference to play scum/town/neutral?
was this your homesite and if not where is your homesite?

this question is more general based that frost and nacho could answer as well but also want o hear your perosnal opinion on.

i read somewhere that citizens (VT as you call it) fake-claiming/gambiting is frowned on here. what is your take on it. this pretains back to gambits as well. are there any scnarios where town should do things like thta os is it a "never-do" thing

[ika]

i would like to hear others imputs on those questions as well.

[ika]

Thankfully you see why that last post by TS is bothersome.

and that is why i have been pushing so hard on a lynch on him as well but nobody is giving me the momentum i need. plus its kinda too late unless we flash it

[ika]

This thread has a very good opening post.

thats what i was looking for, i just wanted to hear your opinions on it as well.

[ika]

Wow OK.

I'm here, I have real-life work to do today but I will be around to answer this thread.

So I'm at L-2, does anyone want to ask me anything? Or tell me why I'm scummy? Sakura, ika, bjc? The only question I've gotten so far is "Why Rob?"

We are running out of time, but I'd really rather not claim if I don't have to

. is there any chance of a Rob W lynch today? Yes, Rob W could maybe just be lurking, but I've soured on the bjc lynch.

@tiershift did you read my last post directed at you? Any comments?

if your not vt, best to do so now with such a short leash of the timeframe atm. i know this sounds scummy as fuck, but idc atm. if you want to be porductive. come and give us info. beathign around the bush isnt going to help at this time. if this happened earlier i might think otherwise but i have work soon as well.

also what you think about teir? why are so many things directed towards him and not everyone?

[ika]

why do you direct question towards certain individuals and not a group standpoint?

[ika]

I think a question directed generically to a group is less useful than a question to a specific individual.
1) People who don't want to answer can get away with it easier
2) My questions can be tailored to exactly what I want to know about that person

I'm trying hard to sort tiershift, which is why I'm asking him 1-on-1 questions. I'm also trying to get him to engage me and stop shouting about bjc, which I've already said I found unproductive. I wish I could get a strong read on him, he's leaning scum to me b/c I feel like he was trying hard to townread/defend me (not 100% scumtell given our history, but suspicious) and I would expect his reads to be more flexible if he were town.

But if you're here I have a question for you also: did you really get anything from that long analysis of the read lists? You concluded that tiershift was most scummy, then voted me, then voted bjc, then voted me again. What's going on?

gameflow is what happened. i got the info that i needed for the most part. as you can see mt ts wasnt getting momentum so i had to ditch it for others. i would bring it back up the next day to try to start it again. i understand the 1-on-1 question with some but some of your post you directed towards the active ppl when they could be general asked.

also whats the trouble with terishift and sorting him? if you are having so much trouble why didnt you join me in voting him and give me momentum i need.

I may be willing to compromise with ED if ED can convince the town to vote TS.

im down for that consider my vote already on it. i almost feelike he could be white-knighting at this point (if im thinking of the right phrase, ic/se can correct me if wrong)

[ika]

teirshitft has been white knighting players by acting all hesitant on everyones lynch but bjc.

i may be gettin gthe term wrong but its not a term we use on our site so its kinda aliended to me

[ika]

or at least that what it feels like

[ika]

White Knighting = Protecting a player from attacks from other sides could be done as either alignment.
Chainsaw Defense = A scum player protecting their scumbuddy from its attackers.
Buddying = A scum player helping a town player to get on their good side (town players do it too but it has a different term iirc).

Those are all the friendship-like terminology i remember to help you out there.

ya i think white knighting is what im prob thinking of, however his play of it seems scum induced

[ika]

anyway.

VOTE: TierShift

i want to drive a lynch on this lets go again

[ika]

also im going to point out my stupid scumym stuff so others cant point it out. and allow ic/se to give some imput on elaborating on it.

my swapping votes so frequently, i am aware i have dont this like all day on this day 1. but its my playstlye and what i do for most part. if you want to lynch em for it go ahead.

im willing to move votes back and forth atm between those 2 unless someone else has someone in mind and a reason why.

[ika]

I want a bjc lynch badly and if I'm not getting it I might be okay with a robw lurker lynch.

Why are you ok with a rob lynch? is your reason lurk? do you have some real reasoning for once?

[ika]

Sorry then.

Fwiw your rob vote is weaker, do something with your vote. What do you think your vote on rob will accomplish?

At this point? Lynching scum.
It amazes me that everyone else apparently thinks that there's a chance of this guy being town.

He's null and you aren't gonna convince me otherwise on the basis of 4 empty posts.

Ray's post is good stuff and explains well what I was trying to get across regarding the analysis of the lists.

Now, if Rob were actually playing this would be a good idea. But he isn't, so, let's justhope he gets replaced real soon.
How do you suppose this worksif rob isn't around?

Also, 6-8 sentences total or per person?

WHY OH WHY ARE YOU SCUMREADING THE LURKER?

enough of your survivalism play. at this point your play is becoming more hindeirng to me then helpful if your town.

......... Okay. Whatever, someone hammer me so I can play in a different newb game.

^
Does this look like survivalist to you?
And if his play is hindering you then you're effectively pushing for a policy lynch, now that i finished reading im thinking on bjc as more town. Maybe because I've been in his position before.
Also Ika leaning more scum =/

Don't even try to insinuate 608 is not very very easily fakeable by scum.

That said, bjc doesn't look like it's gonna happen and emerald is, so I'll switch over the next few days if bjc doesn't start picking up votes again.

servral of his post and opinion about rob when i did a quick scan of ios over the course of the game

[ika]

post 589

is the biggest tell tale to me imo, its fresh from today

[ika]

gameflow...

nothing has truly changed yet. i could see it going wither way with all the interactions. for me its just that its say 1 and ont only confirmed towns im my eyes are me. both of you are jabbing at each others necks like no tommorow. day one has the most chaos atm. how about this for both of you

give me one gian case on each other on why they must be scum. if you are going to refer to posts, use the number only. so far you 2 bickerings is starting to look like OMGUS to me. if you 2 are so decided that one is town and other is scum prove it with one giant post of a case

[ika]

terishift, bjc

make one giant post on why the ohter is scum. using any of the other persons post is allowed but must be numbereed like you did in 685.

p-edit: yes im talking aobut you 2 if you guys are gonna shove each other might as well 1v1 it in one big case to settle the matter

[ika]

im gonna be getting ready for work i will glance back before i leave and prob give imput come the end of it when i get off work.

p-edit: that will work, this little challenge i set up should settle it once and for all. also you may not refute any points the person made untill you make your case on the opposing person. if you to i will consider it scum stalling

[ika]

ika, IMO that is a stupid idea. I am not one to do great big posts about why someone is scum, and generally don't get the point across as well as I should. So you want to vote based on who the better presentation-giver is? Sounds legit to me.

either you do it or myvote will easily switch back to you. so far all i have seen from the 2 of you is you guys shouting each other is scum. this isnt only for my benifit, this is for everyones benifit to decide.

if you want to be listened to build a case instead of using one-liners for everything

[ika]

mkay, bjc your up make your case or be the vote.

i say we decide between teir and bjc on whos todays lynch. i am also going to assum you are both going to claim vt. yes im delibertae with that and looks scummy, but i want this shit to be settled and if it makes me look like scum then so be it. im getting this mess sorted out.

[ika]

i did, and both of your cases on each other to me sucked. teir had more compelling eveidence. yours was an OMGUS type thing to me for the most part. if you are town, then we can look back at teir if you are scum we got a lot of looking into do. i want to hear others imputs as well on the cases you guys just made on each other

[ika]

sigh, both cases sucked....

knw what, fuck it. im just gonna have to iso both of you and decide myself who is going to yeild more info. which i will be doing after work most likely

[ika]

becasue i know im town and its frustrating when i cant figure shit like this out. if you want to lynch me go ahead we got plenty of time to flash wagone me

when i have 0 info and shit like this happens. i want both of them to duke it out to decide. yes scums can do it too, but if either one of them is to flip scum it gives us more contents to look at. haveing others mudsling on the 2 or give side imput only muddles it further.

[ika]

i see nacho is around.

NACHO COME GIVE IMPUT.

im off to work ill prob be watching thread but wont be able to post untill break maybe

[ika]

Spoiler: bjc iso

16: pregame stuff, means hes paying attention
17: just reaction to my randomness of a roleclaim
19: asking for opinions
26: random change of vote
28: semi-filler
35: bunch of one-liners
39: random counter vote
58: answer later
60: threatens emerald
84: more discussion
94: saying doesnt care who gets lynched (scum would prob be more caring about it, even early game)
108: answers questions
136: mini wall of stuff
141: more about just "random lynching"
195: some real life stuff, not much to note
197: the seocond part did seem odd for me at first becasue i have seen scums go "this person is misguided town" howevere his backs it up with other reaosning (ISO)
208 compares my playstly to apparently another person?
253: not feeling rob train yet
256: follows up on it
279: vote hops to me as presussure
280: wants more wagoning
283: this post is ehh, it goes either way. but it sound more like "you can target me but it would be wasting time" (im noting how he says any of them, this would include cop)
289: discussion with lmb and some talk about follow cop plan and stuff
322: scum read emerald for passivle play
354: names 3 scums and thinks one of them is scum
365: this was the big test overall for me in this, he sits at l-1 for a huge ass time with my intent to hammer. now this is on the 26th so it got burried away.
377: points out teirs lack substance
382: point out teris defelction and having that he has burden of proof
388: pointing out teirs lack of his own proof, as well as how he "thinks" he falsely thinks rayfrost is scum
406: pointout abbott (who has been replaced) vaildating his points but not unvoting.
430: bunch of one-liners but responds in manner
433: activity
435: points out teirs lazyness in doing stuff
455: respond toward my hamemr threat.
463: a few one liners, but some were quite informative, showing how ed is jsut kinda fluff posting.
473: noting emralds things again.
498: more at teir
502: showing teirs usless posting and telling him to elaborate on it
507: turing tables on tier whit givign him burden of proof
509: wtf post?
526: says self hamemr, but doesnt seem scum motivated imo, it seems like he more in the "im not gonna convince you mode so let me show you"
560: want to see emerald flip
575: complains to me aobut using vote as pressure and not to threaten lycnh
580: unsure about teir, but seems fixated on ed.
582: want to hear others on what traspired
603: ed lynch wanted
608: saying fuck it hammer me
647: points out tier
678: now goes at teir
688: pointing out his flaws
690: point out hes deflecting
699: does the activiy of him building a case (it may get old but its what i do, deal with it)
762: how he plays and prgession of playstlye

rest are not all that of importance

i was kinda strait to the poitn with each and more of what it was and maybe a little of what i thought of or what im interpreting it as. but to add on to this

he was at l-1 for quite some time with me intending to hammer, nobody objected to it apparently. if bjc is to flip town (for lynch, which is not going to have my vote after doing iso with a cleared mind of doing it) i would want to look at who had him at l-1 for so long. it would be a strong indicator that one or both scums were trying to shove it.

[ika]

tldr

after doing an iso with a clear and refreshed mind, im putting him town. however i shot my brain half-dead doing that.

it might be some time before i can do another (teirs).

as for the teir v emeald v rob, im kinda willing to vote/lynch any of them at this point (my vote should be on teri atm iirc).

[ika]

i come back and see pisskop first few posts. im almost tempted to sheep him becasue i still want to see a bjc flip becasue it would also contain info.

i was reflecting back on this game at work and was tossing an idea around

ts/bjc are the scums

[ika]

i also feel like while i was out and refelcted, i figured out sevral other things. but thats gonna prob be held untill tommorow and after we get a flip

[ika]

facepalm

elaborate?

[ika]

VOTE: Pisskop

now that i want to hear...

also gonna work on teirs thingy

[ika]

Spoiler: teirshift

78: comes in after player fails to pick up role
81: reads me and emeral as town
83: thorwing out some questions
85: wants IC wagon
111: telling nacho to slow down and not find all scum (why do you care if he finds scum?)
132: here it comes off anti-townish, hes playing the passive game here. i feel like hes whiteknighing me here
135: wants opinions (well wheres yours?)
140: fluff questions
146: wants reason
201: info post, however its unsettling if you read it and what it adress from not only my own but a town POV in general if you ask me
203: subjective post, can be scum buddies
205: more things about it
265: dumps a bunch of what i feel like are half-assed reads
266: rereads me as town?
267: this feels like white knighting now
268: defelection
271: more i want to say deflection (there may be a better term for it)
316: backpeddeling majorly, maybe scum cant make a wagon?
326: OMGUS
328: if teir flips scum.... this post alone just has all kinds of out of place in it alone
331: fluff
342: fluff
345: fluff
346: deflection of pressure vote
349: more white knighting
373: white knight
375: fluff and kinda unneeded
378: delfection
379: deflection
383: filler and white knight
385: delfection and not renforcing reason and being lazy
389: delection/white knight
390: just postering now and bringing up same stupid points at this time
397: "Nacho, explain emeraldscum." um why does he need to explain? where is your thoughts
401: buddy much?
434: being lazy
442: more lazyness
444: OMGUS
447: failing to see reason on why i said it
460: cant make scum reads? are you scum?
467: do tell
476: why would a town be mad at a system?
492: burden of proof is on you for this one
494: trying to cram a lynch down
499: you sure act disintrested
504: why nacho? why not just about anyone else.
505: weak ass case
510: delfecing my reasons
511: pointless questioning
514: selective posts and shit case
515: asking me on his bad case and complains about activity
538: do you have satistic to back it up?
543: again complaing about doing stuff
554: yelling
578: how would you know?
587: bus? why you think its bus?
589: white knight
592: wanting reason and not giving
620: trying to discredit the info being gained
643: so will you lynch ed instead?
651: elaborate
670: selective responding
675: OMGUS
676: more OMGUS
681: care to elaborate on it?
685: one post? plz elaborate more
694: more delfective
698: more lazy case building
706: 81, what was that now.
709: odd response seems defensive
715: pointless questioning
731: white knight
738: personal experince =/= satistics
748: well now you have been proven, back peddal ahoy
754: go back to 748, and explain to me your huge bias
788: refers to post
814: nothing to say? what about all the post in between?

can we lynch this guy plz. at this point this should prove how hes just been coasting as stated. im convicnced if he flips scum ed will follow suit after doing this. i would also be down to an ed lynch after doing this as well ebcasue of some of the thigns that were mentioned

[ika]

VOTE: Pisskop

this is also a huge ass reason on why i would be willing to lynch emerald in a heatbeat. im still waiting to hear the reaosn on this little post. im screams scum to me and gives me every thought that pisskop is town if you are scum.

[ika]

guys, whos my scummbuddy? i mean besidesme whos neck is out?

TS has been defending your slot pretty heavily despite it being a person that only fluffed enough to avoid getting prodded, he eventually got prodded and replaced in the end but come on.
Have you ISO'd your predecessor?

i feel like regardless of what pisskop flips atm we are going to flip ts next. did you see my IoAA (if thats right) and why he is a better candidate atm? i feel like ts flip would be more benifical atm and would clear up this emeral/pisskop/bjc thing that just happened

[ika]

@ika
I can't tell if you're lazy or scum, but I'm hoping lazy. Let me quote for you the parts of the thread you should have read already:

Time is short, we're gonna have to lynch soonish. Post 670 from Tiershift actually felt townish to me, but maybe I am getting too caught up in it. I have always been OK with lynching Rob.

odds are he will just be tommorows lynch

Rob is probably going to get replaced with 48 hours left or something like that, his replacement will make a spurt of vaguely townish posts, and either we'll lynch him anyway or we won't. I feel like it'll be very difficult to get an accurate read on a completely new player in a day.

then why did you not vote him sooner, why did you wait for replacement?

The question is, do wait for the replacement in case he claims PR?

again, yours just stalling, if you planned on lynching him, why not just vote him and do it later.

Claim.

nope lynch me.

Any questions?

is that your sole reason? then your just scum up the ass for doign something like that if he is to flip town

so main thing is, why wait for votign him if you were going to do it anyway?

[ika]

863: we already discussed my flips and flops, im not the lynch for today at this time, if they want to lynch me tommorow they can. if you can get a flash wagon on me for today you can do that too.

your most likely town. you missed the bigger point of many of my post appaently.

[ika]

so explain them. apparently you are lynch material if Im joining a wagon, and long/frequent posts =/=town.

as far as nachos request I claim, wifom under the bridge. hes not town to me,and he would have reason to say that no matter his alignment. dont generate content where there is none to be had.

its my playstyle. iirc i have only your vote so its not really lynch material, think of it more of my playstyle on how i play. i know that long/frequent posts =/=town. but my post have been scum hunting.

if you can convince others then go ahead. im just trying to give you benifit of a doubt atm becasue i want to see a ts lynch much more if anything atm. but if i have to settle for a lynch on you i will. i still feel like your lynch will have little to no info come the end of it. the only info we can get is if you flip goon. if you flip town it doesnt give us as much, i still feel like ts should be lynch.

[ika]

well if its l-1 i do have intent to hamemr but we still have like 2-3 days so we have time. yes i did the same with bjc but i still want to hear more from this slot. im still hll bent on wanting to lynch teir today. but regardless of flip, info is info and i ratehr have as much as we can for the next day.

[ika]

its my playstyle to flipflop on reads, to L-1 IC in a gambity manner, and to repeatedly post yoyr intent to lynch several characters d2?
gtfofh with that. raytown expressed similar sentiment at that.

im not scum yo, i just play in a scummy fashion with several dubious wordgames that provide plently of emotional juice. you are scummy. if I am scum, display your logic. cold hard logic.

if thats your belief i wont stop you. you should learn to accept diffrent playstlyes. my bad grammer is me being lazy with auto-correct all the time becasue i find it uneeded if it can be read. i will explain most of my reasoning post game. if you dislike how i play as town then thats your problem.

[ika]

quick, ika, answer my questions

it will be post game for your answer or when im dead maybe if one of my town ppl want to know maybe then but not for you

[ika]

Oh well, I'm interested in the flip tbh. I think the chance of him being scum is okay when looking at what we have. Personally, regardless of flip TS and ED come under the microscope tomorrow.

2nd, i want too look into ts tommorow regardless, and maybe back at bjc, emerald has a few post that would want to make me look at him too. i say regarledd of what happens these are these are the 3 that should be looked into

[ika]

quick, ika, answer my questions

it will be post game for your answer or when im dead maybe if one of my town ppl want to know maybe then but not for you

Is that all you have to say to a dying man?

i dont have much to say to someone whos just gonna try to delay everything and say "answer my questions while i make reads"

[ika]

pretty anti town here . . .

Stop avoiding it. If you were pro town you would lay out the reads to help us tomorrow. You're the one being anti-town.

my point exactly why i refuse to answer him, he said he was gonna give reads, so to force him to give reads i would refuse to answer to him. he said himself "let me make reads first"

and he stalls it to wanting my reasons on something. he doesnt need my reasons to make his reads. he could of made his reads then asked

[ika]

[/dawww]

it was a silly thing to expect me not to notice it after i specifically said i was watching you.

but you shook up ika's townread, i think.

jsyk i could hammer instead.....

are you going to claim or no?
are you going to give reads or no?
are you going to be helpful or should i jsut hamemr you now?

even after the fake hammer you still didnt calim, seeing how you will only continue this line of quesitoning, im gonna hammer in 1 hr if no one has any objections or unless you can dalzzle someone to change. i have to get read for work soon and your "delay game" is not helping.

your here right now you can do it, im not waiting any more im becoming impaitenet with this stall tactic

[ika]

Unvote

Not comfortable with Ika holding the hammer.

lol, ok heres the disclaimer to sort this shit out once and for all, if at any point hes at l-1 and is still in the same little "give me time" or "ika explain before i give reads" shit im just hammering, i refuse to give reason untill you decide to help or do rays activity at least. this is becomeing a stupid game of fuckign paranoia of each other.

im going leave this thread becasue now im just frustrated at this little shitfest thats going on. i dont care if this post or my action make me scummy as fuck, you decide what to make of it and go from there.

[ika]

There's a couple things bothering me.
If ika was town, he wouldnt be posting like this.
But if ika was scum, he would have hammered you just because you refused to claim, like what happened to me in another newbie game several months ago. And he wouldn't take much flak for it because you refused to claim.

i like to give benifit of doubt, he replaced in on a player that had 0 contents, so to me hes essensaly the same player atm, if the player had contents to actualy look at then it would be diffrent

[ika]

why is ika town. quotes please.

jeepers, you answer mine perhaps ill answer yours.

why am i scum? quotes please.

VOTE: pisskop

i have no problem not being your hammer either as well back to l-1 you go.

[ika]

pisskop

, please set aside your agression for one second. read his iso and please honestly post at what point you were convinced he was

scum

and why.

im askign you this, i bolded what i changed, if you are convinced im scum build a case

[ika]

mod: can i be replaced, an event came up and will not be able to play enjoyably, i will pm you details

[ika]

Ya i wish i could of played to the end, however i had a lot of things going on (irl issues, a homesite game issue that a player decided to blow up, and a lot of drama overall) that it was affecting me so badly, that i not only would not enjoy playing, that it was affecting me irl and me at my job. I just needed to take some time off to reset myself and get back and let everything settle before i could hop back in.

I find it that its a game, win or lose, the most important thing is to have fun. If you cant have fun, or gonna have drama about something (which is what happened on my home site and is quite an intresting story overall looking back) then you shouldn't play. I play with the intention to have fun (and of course to try and win). But if i am in a game or at a point where im not having fun (or cant due to issues) or is causing drama, i will end up just wanting to be placed out.