Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[bjc]

Sup

[bjc]

vote: Ika

strange pregame there.

[bjc]

RayFrost

closest match to theme of game

also i claim a role that is in the 3x3 box

Also, I just noticed this. WTF man

[bjc]

vote: Ika

strange pregame there.

It's strange but it's also the epitome of null.

I agree.

What do you think of his softclaim?

[bjc]

unvote; vote: AbboTT

[bjc]

Moar discussion plz

[bjc]

Why did you move your vote to abbott?

Moar discussion plz

That's why, and it worked.

Why did you move your vote to abbott?

why do you care is the bigger question here?

nacho and bjc are probable towns

/discuss

Interesting...

Why did you move your vote to abbott?

why do you care is the bigger question here?

Really? You don't care?

His first vote might have been random, hard to say, but switching votes definitely isn't.

Again, conversation was spurred following my post, was it not?

nacho and bjc are probable towns

/discuss

i'm pretty insulted but i agree re: bjc

Lame.

[bjc]

VOTE: ika

How's that for not random?

WTF is this?

unvote; vote: emeraldemon

[bjc]

he seems pretty genuine to me

Who are you addressing here?

[bjc]

Nope.

[bjc]

Vote: ika

Why?

[bjc]

Would like to have some more content...

[bjc]

words

@ika: Okay. I didn't get much of anything out of this exchange. I do have one followup question for you; if you are content with placing "random" votes at this point in the game, why aren't you willing to vote for nacho?

Wagons are the fast track out of RVS.

So explain to me why you are in such a hurry to exit rvs, how do you know we have not already exited rvs? Your vote on nacho was pure rvs and me wagoning him would do almost nothing. I may be jumping it here but as of now im content with my vote if you would like me to change it to nacho, show me reasoning. I am inclined to change my vote to someone else but I still want to see more post by the players.

Would like to have some more content...

Then generate something. Your last post on asking why is something, however you have it directed towards that person. Its not generated towards the group as a whole.

I will give us some questions to generate contents if it will help

Favorite role to play as?
Playstyle preference?
where do you originate from if you played before?
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral?
Who is your strongest town and scum read?
who are your null reads?
why are you reading all those players like that?

those question should generate contents

I will take a shot at this after my next, and final, class.

[bjc]

Well IMO you're making a good day one candidate, but I am still a little weary of ika.

[bjc]

Correction: You're making for a good day one lynch candidate if it wasn't clear.

[bjc]

@nacho
What makes you think these guys are town?

Would like to see nacho's thoughts.



Let's get a wagon going doe.

[bjc]

[bjc]

Hey nacho want to flip your vote to emeraldemon?

[bjc]

Thank God

[bjc]

Sweet, someone who will post. Now we just need one more replacement and for RayFrost to figure his situation out...

LMB, can you quote or gather up the post(s) that suggest scumbuddying? Thank you.

[bjc]

How about stuff from you? What's with your vote on ika? What do you make of Robw's vote on ika?

[bjc]

@bjc
I made a long post about why I voted ika (59), did you read it?
Yes, Robb W needs to come out and post.

@tiershift
Man, I really hope you are town this game. So you don't think ika and bjc are buddying?

That didn't really look like a justification for voting but more like a, "hey guys, check this out."

Oh and yes I'd say that it looks like we're buddying. I can't say he's confirmed townie to me but I'm not the best at that.

Bjc, you got any experience? Sure seems like you do. Why do you think emerald is scum?

Yes. I originate from a sports-based website where I've played 3 or 4 games, then made my way here.

Admittedly, it's something small, but it struck me as something awful:

VOTE: ika

How's that for not random?

Note: I'm not one to call someone's play "bad" or call people names and pull some high-rank crap because I think that's annoying and I think people who make the "that post was so bad" kind of posts either:

-Can't properly explain what's wrong with the post
-or-
-Are 14 years old.

So why do I say this? To clarify that my use of awful was to describe how it jumped out at me, not that the substance was awful.

[bjc]

It awfully jumps out at you, but the substance isn't awful. Why is it scummy again?

If you want a wagon, vote nacho, IC wagons are cool.

Well at the time it seemed scummy, almost OMGUS in nature but ika voted for nacho, not emeral.

Cool.

unvote; vote: nacho

[bjc]

inb4 scum quickhammer.

[bjc]

My post was in jest. Unless nacho makes a compelling case to not be lynched (and even at L-1 I'm not sure nacho is in real danger of being lynched) or a new person takes the spotlight, I'm fine with a lynch.

[bjc]

Well I will admit my vote on Nacho was weak to some extent. It was mostly to make a wagon. Same crap I've done all game (try to spark discussion). If I didn't do that, I don't think ika would have put you at L-1 unless others voted, and who knows if you would've supplied more information. Hmmm...

I will also

unvote; vote: Abott

[bjc]

Favorite role to play as? On my sports site we had a college football themed game where I was Tim Tebow, Jack of All Trades. Lol. That was a fun game.
Playstyle preference? Generally aggressive, lynch-happy on day one, and full of sarcasm.
where do you originate from if you played before? A college football website.
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral? Neutral, I have only been town once.
Who is your strongest town and scum read? Town: Ugh, probably ika. lol. Scum: Abott
who are your null reads? Everyone else? I'll probably read (in detail) this whole thread and ISO anyone that draws my suspicion tomorrow and come up with better reads.
why are you reading all those players like that? Because.

[bjc]

Spoiler:

Well I will admit my vote on Nacho was weak to some extent. It was mostly to make a wagon. Same crap I've done all game (try to spark discussion). If I didn't do that, I don't think ika would have put you at L-1 unless others voted, and who knows if you would've supplied more information. Hmmm...

I will also

unvote; vote: Abott

Just sudden mood changed, why did you give up on nacho and

suddenly follow the wagon

? Kay, it looks like you're looking for a quick-lynch.

VOTE: bcj

To follow the wagon! Like I posted last night I don't have any great reads right now, I'll have plenty of time to do that stuff after Physics. Expect a post between 10-12:30 PM.

im still looking at abbott but bjc wanting for quick-lynch is becomign troublesome

bjc, why do you want quick-lynch? why are you sheeping? please elaborate on your scum read on abbott.

Will do sir. However, like I posted, I am usually in favor of a lynch day one regardless of how long the game has been unless I feel like there's someone better we can get, or that the person targeted is very likely to come up town (IMO). How likely is it we're going to lynch scum and not a newb that was piled on for a slip-up?

Hey, nacho. Good to have you in here. I agree that there maybe is a slight hint of fencesitting in abbott's play, but it's way too early to do your famous cases and get all these newbies to believe you have found scum already. They see you a a god, yaknow

Ika, agreed, bjc's willingness to sheep is quite bothersome.

Bjc, why do you sheep so much?

See above.

Mini wall.

[bjc]

I just looked for people who had direct questions for me, maybe I missed yours. Like I said, I've got Physics and I still have to get ready lol. I'll be back by 10:00 AM central time (US).

[bjc]

Bjc, I understand why you would want to lynch someone and we are definitely gonna do that. But would you lynch really anyone? Not just your scumreads? Do you have any or are you still hopping?

Will do sir. However, like I posted,

I am usually in favor of a lynch day one regardless of how long the game has been unless I feel like there's someone better we can get, or that the person targeted is very likely to come up town (IMO).

How likely is it we're going to lynch scum and not a newb that was piled on for a slip-up?

Let me clarify what I mean here. I do not mean that I'm willing to lynch anyone. Obviously people I think are very likely to flip town (people I feel aren't worth lynching yet) I won't support. If there is a person that a near-majority think is scum, I'll join them if I don't think otherwise

or

if I believe there is a much bigger threat/target.

Overall, I'm not going to oppose many D1 candidates, unless it's me or someone coming off (to me) as town.

As for your second question, I just got back to my dorm. So let me go through the thread in detail.

[bjc]

I've reached page 5, I can't guarantee I'll finish before my next class. If not, I won't be able to post what I've got coming until the afternoon/evening. Sorry.

[bjc]

Okay. Up to post #109:

Spoiler:

-AboTT's posts #47 and #53 do not sit well with me. In post 47 there is that "Oh look lots of content yay!" line.

-Nacho's post #98 captures what I want to say on that matter. In post 53 he continues without really adding much to the game while focusing on weaker things in the game, as Nacho posted in the linked post.

-Robw's post #54 that still has no explanation at all isn't good either.

-Here, at post #59 ED first speaks (in detail) of the perceived ika-bjc scumbuddying. Just thought I'd throw that in here, I don't have much to talk about here.

-LMB jumps out with this: #70 again with the scumbuddying stuff. I guess I can excuse this as an introductory post, but then...
-In comes LMB out of nowhere (109) I'd like to see more talk by LMB rather than just vote someone because they changed their vote.

-Moving on: ika votes AboTT promising future content on the matter in post #72, I'm curious if that ever came through (it hasn't up to post 109).

-104 my vote and the resulting sheeping claims by other. I realize ahead of time that those votes are going to draw attention.

In summary:

Up to this point both AboTT and LMB come across as scum to me.

Also,

Town
bjc (me)
RayFrost -or-
ika -or-
ED -or-
Nacho
Tier
Rob
LMB -or-
AboTT
Scum

[bjc]

Explain the rayfrost read.

Mostly a feeling like most so far, but he hasn't posted much up to the posts I covered (going up to 109). What I remember reading of his so far, I like it. I'll finish soon.

[bjc]

lol, quote wall with no commentary.

Anyway, for previously mentioned reasons (Way back before running off to my Physics discussion and Calc 2 classes...),

unvote; vote: Lynch Me Bro

Really, I don't care if people see this as more sheeping or an OMGUS vote. This is coincidence that ika voted him before me, oh well. I've laid out my reads up to post #109 and I am very happy with this vote.

[bjc]

I was going to vote you but had more class to go to at 12:30, and I have to make my way there at 12:00 essentially. I don't post from my Nexus often, especially not in detail. I just got home after hanging out with friends, lol. So yeah, call it whatever you want my friend. Doesn't change that I think you deserved to be lynched at this point.

I have a lot of content to analyze from post #109 to where we are now though, including some discussion between AboTT and RayFrost.

[bjc]

Okay, maybe not lynched at this point but what I do mean by that is worthy of a wagon, at the very least.

BTW, I ISO'd RayFrost and still think he's town, but I think he's misguided/off on ika (OH NOES SCUMBUDDYING) because I have been in ika's place/playstyle before as town.

Maybe ika's scum and trying to sheep/buddy me because some people have cleared me as townie, but I don't think so.

[bjc]

About my bjc read, I'm not sure about him. He puts in effort, but he's just sheeping everything that comes along. Give me some more time here.

For now, I don't have strong scumreads.

So, have both statements changed since you made this post? Updated read on me? Any scumreads or at least a stronger read than before?

[bjc]

bjc, unless you have seen ika's playstyle as scum as well, you have no real meta based argument to defend him with.

It's like going to a magic show and saying "I've seen the heads side of this coin, so the other side must be tails" and ignoring the possibility of a coin with heads on both sides. (Specifically a magic show because in normal society a coin usually has heads and tails whereas magic shows tend to have trickery).

I haven't seen him in a game before, but I've been in his situation before. It just seems genuine to me, and ATM he doesn't seem like the best case to try to make here.

[bjc]

... bump

[bjc]

I don't like LMB's play early on. So I'll keep my vote.

Cue ika's vote removal after nacho shows force.

[bjc]

I don't know, I can't really get behind a Rob vote right now because he's posted twice I think, or maybe three times.

[bjc]

I don't know, I can't really get behind a Rob vote right now because he's posted twice I think, or maybe three times.

Why does this translate into you not being willing to vote him? I thought you were happy with most votes unless you had a townread on the player, and you obviously can't have a townread on Rob based on three or so posts.

I knew this was coming.

A few reasons why I will hold off until people decide we're going to lynch him (at which point I'll probably be okay with voting him):
-First off, I'm generally very willing to follow votes and keep wagons going. You've all seen it in this game. However, I'm not really sure what to think of your play in this game up to this point, so I'm a little hesitant.
-I'd still rather focus on others like ED, AboTT, and LMB
-I'd like to see more posts from everyone, including Robw.

[bjc]

I like those posts by LMB. Has any real pressure been put on ika this game?

unovte; vote: ika

I don't believe so.

[bjc]

Come on the wagon, all. Wagons wagons wagons!

[bjc]

No. A power role on me would be a complete waste. Save that stuff for someone else.

And really? No reason to claim now.

[bjc]

Following the cop is a good idea? Boy how great that would be for the cop to lead us on a wagon against another PR only to have TWO PRs out themselves on day one. I'll pass.

[bjc]

Honestly if we're talking about people that need to be watched at night it's one of Tiershift/Emeraldemon.

[bjc]

Following the cop is a good idea? Boy how great that would be for the cop to lead us on a wagon against another PR only to have TWO PRs out themselves on day one. I'll pass.

Bro

, actually read the mafia wiki on following the cop. It's letting the doctor protect the cop every night so the cop can stay invincible while giving reports.

You like that word, eh?

I'm familiar with it, but my point still stands and you're assuming that having a cop means we'll have a doctor when that isn't actually guaranteed at all.

In fact, that same setup with the doc has a roleblocker. So they could just roleblock the cop, and the doc isn't really doing much at that point.

[bjc]

You mean tl;dr, right?

[bjc]

I was kidding, haha.

[bjc]

I'll do a few reads soon.

[bjc]

unvote

so I fell asleep before doing the content I was going to do.

[bjc]

Reading through (with some skimming) players I don't like:

Emeraldemon

Even in the actual content ED posts, I get this feeling (and this is how RayFrost describes my posting, minus the flexibility) "..lack of proactivity when it comes to scumhunting. He's been an almost completely passive recipient of the game. He posts, but many of them give the feeling of "I have posted content, now you guys can use this bone to go away and ignore me."

[bjc]

Dammit, EBWOP:

vote: Emeraldemon

[bjc]

VOTE: bjc

Care to explain? Or are you just unhappy with me voting ur scumbuddy?

[bjc]

Ye dun vote my scumbuddy u bastard

No but really why? EXPLAIN SIR!

[bjc]

It has to be my Freddie Mercury avatar. Y u hate him?

[bjc]

Lazy? My vote has nearly as much as his thought on me (which you've used to vote me) and that's a feeling. "He posts, but many of them give the feeling of.."

Okay.

[bjc]

And if there are posts/actions you want me to expound on, I'll gladly do so.

[bjc]

Hostile place

Your posting style makes me laugh.


Is this all that is gonna be offered? At this rate there won't be a replacement, and I don't wanna push for a policy lynch but... Really?

[bjc]

Hi.

Vote: ika

What have i missed?

Hostile place

[bjc]

Sheeping a good case=weak?

P-edit: nope no scumbuddy intreaction there sorry

You think that's a good case?

[bjc]

Not scum here bro. I'm very confident there's at least one scum in Rob, Tier, and ED.

[bjc]

That is such a lame vote. Good job enabling scum to sit on my wagon.

[bjc]

Any intent to hammer?

[bjc]

I think there's a little bit to be gained by the RobW flip, not a whole lot though. I think we're in a bind though: He posts just enough to not get replaced. So... What the hell is his usefulness to us?

@ ika - Want to know why I feel like "you won't lynch me?" Because I'm town. Just like you said you don't feel threatened due to being town, I feel like I won't be lynched because I'm town. There's a reason I'm wanting to know if someone has intent to hammer.

So tell me: Do you have a serious intent to hammer?

[bjc]

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

[bjc]

I take that back. There IS scum on my wagon. The question is whether or not it's the whole team or one of them plus RobW.

[bjc]

I take that back. There IS scum on my wagon. The question is whether or not it's the whole team or one of them plus RobW.

Cool why

Lol. The person who doesn't offer much substance making a "cool why" post as if I haven't offered anything before.

[bjc]

I take that back. There IS scum on my wagon. The question is whether or not it's the whole team or one of them plus RobW.

Cool why

Lol. The person who doesn't offer much substance making a "cool why" post as if I haven't offered anything before.

Same as to ika before, burden of proof is on you, not on me.

The "proof" that I'm scum is based on a feeling you're sheeping. Tell me again why I'm scum?

[bjc]

More on why Rayfrost is scum:
First he attacks ika, tunneling in but also continuously calling out others for lurking/not posting content. (Which IS a scumtell) What he doesn't do, however, is trying to scumhunt outside of ika. (Nother one) I see a few questions, but they are mostly about his own case and trying to recruit for his case. Now, after he let ika off the hook (because no one had been convinced) but still thinking he is scum (?), he goes onto a lurker, so from someone he is convinced he is scum, onto a nullread lurker? Doesn't make any town sense to me.

UNVOTE:

Uhhhh...I think I might have been mistaken about ray being scum....that rant of posts was incredibly townish and denying most of my accusations (not scumhunting, taking the easy road, trying to paint only lurkers black), even though he did not address my post.

I have to say 279 is incredibly scummy but I'm just gonna take one step back now before hopping around even more.

LMB, what do you think about nacho so far?

VOTE: bjc

The above being said, I actually feel a lot better about this than rob.

The most major points against bjc, in my opinion, are his complete flexibility, and lack of proactivity when it comes to scumhunting. He's been an almost completely passive recipient of the game. He posts, but many of them give the feeling of "I have posted content, now you guys can use this bone to go away and ignore me." How much follow up has he had on

anything

he's done this game? I'm not going to lie, he's got posts that are content-heavy in terms of giving reads and opinions, but almost all of them are one-offs. Like a butterfly settling on a flower without pollinating. Drop here, deposit opinion, fly away and deposit opinion elsewhere, rinse repeat. There's no commitment to anything, and there's a line between having shifting reads and a long list of votes by convenience. I feel like he's crossed that line.

This. It's good. It made me think.
And now the lazy emerald vote which doesn't go much further than 'no content'

So.. That's it? You really haven't offered much on why you voted me. Or why I'm scum. And why such a fast change in direction? Or is that only applicable to me?

You're sheeping on a feeling someone has on why I'm scum, and that "feeling" is more applicable to someone else!

BTW I know what Burden of Proof is. In my eyes you haven't done much to prove I'm scum, therefore everyone else should assume I'm townie.

[bjc]

Because one person that IS scum is voting me for sure (emeraldemon).

[bjc]

I just don't know what more there is to it.

[bjc]

That's not exactly what Burden of Proof mean, but this isn't AP Language class so I'll pass on that.


Look at AbboTT's reason for why I'm scum, then change the name of which the post is addressing from bjc to emeraldemon, and you have it!

[bjc]

That's not exactly what Burden of Proof mean, but this isn't AP Language class so I'll pass on that.


Look at AbboTT's reason for why I'm scum, then change the name of which the post is addressing from bjc to emeraldemon, and you have it!

Why did you say "if you all are so hungry for a lynch, why don't you lynch Rob"?

Because he offers absolutely nothing to this game. We'd also maybe find some information in the following shifting of votes.

[bjc]

EBWOP: Or the reluctance of someone to shift votes. It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum unless of course you are scum.

[bjc]

So we've come to lynching lurkers over scummy players, then?

I'm willing to wager that..

Some of the players voting on me are just voting me to keep a wagon going, and not because they really think I'm scum.
The rest are either scum or sheeping.

[bjc]

I'm just dying to hear why I'm probably scum.

[bjc]

It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum

He's got a point here...

And why haven't you unvoted if you feel my point is valid?

[bjc]

I'm leaving this quote wall out so there is no excuse when ED ignores me.

It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum

He's got a point here...

And yet, unless I've missed something, you still have your vote on me.

256Hard to put my finger on, but bjc sounds so submissive all the time, feels bad to me.

This seems to be common with those who feel I'm scum. Nothing really definitive about me being scum, just feels and that is pretty much it.

Also:

I'm just dying to hear why I'm probably scum.

This is directed at emeraldemon. You tell me why I'm scum. Don't direct me to a post already made; I want your case made now.

dooes anyone else find it odd how non else had intention to hammer yet?

Yes, I for one do find that odd.

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

Getting scared bro? That just confirms my read on bcj. Obvious scum escaping his lynch by attempting to convince us to inactive lynch Rob.

Look, I can't imagine scum making posts like this, so I'm gonna assume you are just tunneling on me and just doing all around bad town play.

i would want bjc to claim though. its rather disturbing that hes l-1 and has not claimed

Why do I need to claim? There is no serious intent to hammer on me. I don't need to potentially hurt the town via claiming.

start with "what makes you so comfortable making him l-1?"

Well look whose talking here. *facepalm* First, what makes

you

so comfortable putting nacho at l-1?

What about "ninja-hammering" huh?

i didnt phrase it like he did. i said "im l-1ing him"

Also notice how ika puts bcj at null even though bcj has a shitload of content.

becasue his last few post are looking quite scumym and screams survivalism

Let me help convey what I'm trying to convey.

I don't need to survive to achieve my wincon, though it really helps if I do live on. I'm just trying to point out how dumb it is that there are, ATM, two serious lynching candidates (if you look at where votes are right now). One doesn't help the town at all and probably won't be replaced (hmmmmm) and the other is a valuable asset to the town.

If you consider the fact that everyone has the same chance of being scum in a given game, why the hell would you choose the active guy over the inactive guy?

ESPECIALLY when it's been posted by others that they're fine with lynching the inactive guy!?

[bjc]

ika's read activity:

Town
RayFrost
Nacho

ika
LMB
Tiershift (Albeit uncooperative/lazy as fuck)

RobW
AbboTT
Emeraldemon
Scum

[bjc]

If you consider the fact that everyone has the same chance of being scum in a given game, why the hell would you choose the active guy over the inactive guy?

ESPECIALLY when it's been posted by others that they're fine with lynching the inactive guy!?

Nope, scum lynch>policy lynch. Why are you pushing so hard for a policy lynch all of a sudden?

Everyone has the same chance of being scum before anything is posted. After there is content that is just a ridiculous statement.

That's something I left out (the bolded). However, what content has Rob put out? Also, do you count fluff posting as content? Even if I'm scum, what if I'm trying to bus my scumbuddy that left me to dry by essentially not playing the game? That would get me town cred for sure.

I'm not even pushing for a policy lynch, but I am not sure you're even reading my posts. My INITIAL POST REGARDING LYNCHING ROB HAD

IF

AT THE START OF THE SUBJECT.

Holy shit, can you read? What does it mean when someone starts something with "if?"

Let's find that quote again...

Look,

if

you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

not lazy

I did one pretty recently, but:
town
ika
ed
LMB

abbott
ray
nacho
rob

bjc
scum

Either lazy, uninterested, or scum.

Proving again you can't really read, you list only one person as scum, where ika listed multiple stipulations to partaking in this activity:

must have the following constraints

3 people must be pegged as scum no more no less

at least 1 person must be pegged as town
the rest can any flavor or read
you must not give any reasoning for you reads.
you are not to question any of the reads anyone gives untill a fair amount of people give them (lets make it like 6-7 ppl)

im gonna adress a few post first and then do this. if you refuse to i will consider it anti-town and scummy.

[bjc]

Nic? Kaze....? I think you're talking about another game.

[bjc]

Oh the anger.

Why are you trying so hard to be useless to the town?

[bjc]

Great participation today guys. We're really making progress.

[bjc]

Great participation today guys. We're really making progress.

would it make you haippier if i just hammered you now so we have stuff to do dommorow? i want nach to come on and give me his list so we can do the activity

Why so hostile towards someone you list as null whilst listing others as scum?

That just makes a ton of sense.

Still waiting on emeraldemon to make an appearance.

[bjc]

Yo ika I'm waiting on Emeraldemon to respond.

[bjc]

Check out this interaction:

#29 I ask bjc about his vote
#30 ika: "Why do you care?"
#31 ika: "nacho and bjc are probable towns"
#37 I vote ika
#38 bjc: "WTF is this? vote emeraldemon"
#42 ika: (about bjc) "he also already justified his reasoning. he sparked discussion. we are now following up on it."

Are these guys best friends or what?

Also
#41 "Who are you addressing here?" How is it unclear? The post came directly after yours and is talking about what you are talking about. It is directed to you.
#42 ika agrees with bjc some more "this i would like to hear as well. it is surprisingly vauge" even though it wasn't vague at all.
#52 ika: "Right now in early stage i find that votes are nothing more then conversation pieces" Followed by some utterly generic questions.

Sorry, I'm trying not to tunnel here, but you two look like scum buddies to me.

@nacho
What makes you think these guys are town?

Seriously this is some hardcore Information instead of Analysis. Just saying.

Hey so you wanted to see my town game right? Let's do this thing

So one thing makes me hesitate about bjc / ika scumteam: 16 it would surprise me a little for a scum to draw attention to a partner like this in the first post.

Other than that though, pretty much everything from them has felt scumteam.

The only other person who's posted anything is Abbott, but unfortunately it's all pretty null. Need more stuff from everyone.

More IIoA, speculation, and general avoiding doing any real scumhunting. Beating around the bush, that kind of stuff.

Lots of stuff I missed, trying to sort through it all now. But first things first

@ika:

52 "As you play more games, you will understand"
62 "i may not be ic here or se, but i do have a fair amount of experience from my home site i would say."
87 "i am quite expeinced and want to help the new players"
113 "its odd playing a newbie game, i feel like im reading all the noobs as scums becasue they are noobs."
152 "im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing."

Stop. Telling me you are super experienced mafia veteran will not convince me of anything. It's probably not scummy, unless you are trying to use it to get others to sheep you, but it's definitely not making me trust you more. Honestly it just makes you sound insecure.

Not technically IIoA, but nothing that exactly adds to the game, as most of his posts fit this description.

The thing about ika comes down to this: is the carelessness a town tell? Moving votes around, semi-random reads thrown about. It doesn't feel careful the way you might expect scum to be careful. But maybe he's just looking for a lynch to get behind without putting too much effort in. No honest scumhunting feel either. Maybe too glib?
@nacho
I didn't see any finished games from ika on this site. Do you know his meta from somewhere else?

bjc's vote and explanation in 104 is weaksauce on waffles. Also his trajectory on ika rings false to me: in 60 he says he's wary (after I accuse him of buddying), 84 says "I can't say he's confirmed townie" which means nothing. In 108 answering ika's question about strongest townread he says "Ugh, probably ika. lol." Where is this coming from?

I dunno, but for now it's enough to
VOTE: bjc

@RayFrost
I'd like to hear your opinion about bjc please.

So now we get some information for the town, essentially doing what I'm accused of by AbboTT with the whole "here's some info, leave me alone." Here's his case on me:
-weaksauce on waffles
-his trajectory on ika rings false to me aka he could be wrong, oh and bjc makes two statements in different posts that both essentially mean the same thing.

Sorry for being gone so long, signing up for three games simultaneously was a mistake but I'm still going to try to win this thing.

I know this isn't the most useful, but here's what I was thinking as I caught up:

176: I don't like the way ika just throws shit around. Bleh... could be town though

182: "I have had a bad expeince with ppl makign cases and have them flipping towns and then follow them again." I can deal with the terrible spelling and grammar (although I wish I didn't have to), but I have no fucking idea what you're trying to say here.

193: this sounds a lot like the case I made earlier, except with quote walls.

225 & 227: I agree, except about ika.

246: So saying anything with confidence is a scumtell?

256:

Hard to put my finger on, but bjc sounds so submissive all the time, feels bad to me.

257: "if i die due to nk. Plz look into nacho/teirshift as scums" wtf is this? Why would anyone nk you? Don't like.

282: Whaaat? No.

355: Abbott never quite makes my radar ping either way. Everything he does seems reasonable, but kinda bland or something.

376: "if i end up dying" This again. Someone who knows what's up, is constantly saying you'll get night-killed a scum tell? Cause I'm thinking it is.

386: Oh man, I went from town vibes to scum partner. That's what I get for being AFK I guess.


UP TO DATE READS

TOWN
Nachomamma - I agree with almost every post from him that isn't about ika
lynch me bro - newbtown all the way
RayFrost - I like your ability to write in complete paragraphs
Abbott - null still
tiershift - aggressively townreading me, not sure if this is a test
ika - badfeels
bjc - probably scum
Rob W - The real test will be if we get him to L-1
SCUM

bjc and Rob are tied for last, I am fine with lynching either. I will put some more thoughtful posts together in a bit.

This is an all-around subpar post IMO. He has yet to really dive into why anyone is scum in any of his posts. They're ALL essentially avoiding getting a lot of attention. This is the best day one candidate by far.


This is my content on why I think ED is a good candidate, even better than robW.

[bjc]

Those are all of his posts with "content." Everything else is fluff.

So, ED, you have some explaining to do.

[bjc]

Okay. Maybe I should correct it to Information with very very little Analysis. I will from now on use IwvvlA.

[bjc]

I view his play as scummy. So there's that.

[bjc]

VOTE: Rob W

@bjc
1) Could you summarize your read on Abbott for me? Why do you think he is scum?

2) In the early game your votes seemed to go wherever other people voted, in particular you followed ika's vote multiple times. What was your thinking during that phase? What do you think about ika now?

1) AbboTT and Robw should be a little distanced from you; Robw is just worthy lynching for reasons I made out earlier. AbboTT has done a lot of what you have done but to a lesser degree and I'm less certain about him being scum than I am of you being scum.

2) My thinking about that has been laid out before. Basically, if the guy doesn't scream townie I'm gonna vote. Why not? Wagons errwhere all day for me. Now we're getting to a part of the game where that basically comes to an end. I still think ika's town.


By the way, what happened to the big post about/on me? Also, why have you moved your vote?

[bjc]

Guys we are definitely not lynching an inactive over someone who has been scum read a lot. Stop focusing on Rob's inactivity and being oblivious to scum tells.

First choice to lynch would be the person that dropped the most scumtells and second would be policy lynch, scum tells are always first. Bcj is using Rob's inactivity to his advantage and trying escape his lynch.

How? I'm not sure I've done what you're claiming here. I think ED is a good lynch candidate still.

[bjc]

If you consider the fact that everyone has the same chance of being scum in a given game, why the hell would you choose the active guy over the inactive guy? ESPECIALLY when it's been posted by others that they're fine with lynching the inactive guy!?

You are using rob's inactivity to try and escape a lynch pretty blatantly.

Because I thought it was a stupid move, herp. Also because I'm confident one or two on my wagon is/was scum (ED jumped off, so he's not on it any longer).

You seem really disinterested in this game. Tell my why that is, please. You just seem really unwilling to do much of anything.

[bjc]

Answer the above, answer why you're trying so hard to be anti-town, and answer why I'm scum; you haven't done the third ever.

UNVOTE:


I have to say 279 is incredibly scummy but I'm just gonna take one step back now before hopping around even more.

To my knowledge, this is the ONLY thing you've essentially based your vote on.

Cool. Why? /Tiershift

The above being said, I actually feel a lot better about this than rob.

The most major points against bjc, in my opinion, are his complete flexibility, and lack of proactivity when it comes to scumhunting. He's been an almost completely passive recipient of the game. He posts, but many of them give the feeling of "I have posted content, now you guys can use this bone to go away and ignore me." How much follow up has he had on

anything

he's done this game? I'm not going to lie, he's got posts that are content-heavy in terms of giving reads and opinions, but almost all of them are one-offs. Like a butterfly settling on a flower without pollinating. Drop here, deposit opinion, fly away and deposit opinion elsewhere, rinse repeat. There's no commitment to anything, and there's a line between having shifting reads and a long list of votes by convenience. I feel like he's crossed that line.

This. It's good. It made me think.
And now the lazy emerald vote which doesn't go much further than 'no content'

And now, without any real explanation, you point to RF's post. Cool. Now build a case against me. /Tiershift


Everything since then has essentially been one liners, a refusal to further explain something or cooperate, and the occasional multi-thought reply.

Cool. /Tiershift

[bjc]

EBWOP: The above post of mine is solely directed at TS; the "address the above" is referring to ika's question on tunneling.

[bjc]

No, it's hypothetical talk. Everyone has the same chance. BTW, from my perspective the chance of me being scum is 0% because I have a town role.

By your logic, I should have something upwards of 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% so your logic is really bad.

/Tiershift

How? SHOW us how I'm being survivalist af. Talk about burden of proof; "We can't prove he

isn't

acting survivalist so therefore he is acting survivalist." You're the one who has to prove it. You bring up points without showing any evidence.

p-edit: My point on rob was that people were just voting me for weak reasons, and I perceived the wagon as being scum-driven. So why not vote Rob in the situation that scum are leading a wagon on a townie for weak reasons? Rob has not done much of anything; replace out, start catching up/participating or die. Don't post just enough to stay in the game. No surprise you want him alive; I'm sure you'd love to have him in mylo lol.

My response was just doing the equivalent of what you do every time you post; I consider it fair game. :shrug:

Riiiiight. Oh and let me add...

Cool. /Tiershift

[bjc]

ika - I have two listed as town, three as null, three as scum.

[bjc]

I would like to list Tier as town if not for his weird fixation on me combined with uncooperative/anti-town posting and generally just being unhelpful.

[bjc]

You're making it too easy for the scum, but okay.

Apparently anything I post is discredited/wrong/survivalist by the fact that I'm scum according to Tier.

[bjc]

So you really think lynching me is a good option?

If so, should I just self-hammer?

I think lynching me may help. It could also lead to a day 2 mislynch. I dunno, I think there are better people to be lynched, but considering there are only three of us posting really, I guess I'm screwed!

p-edit: I've told you who I think is scum. Emeraldemon. I've shown why I think he's scummy.

I think AbboTT is meh.
Tier is meh.

Screw this, lol.

[bjc]

Mainly post 460.

Also, I have asked ED to answer multiple questions of mine and never got anything back.

[bjc]

^^^^ Post 463 not 460, sorry.

[bjc]

hmmm i just isoed him, i do see what you mean.

food for though bjc, teir/emrald scum team possible?

Let's get an ED flip and find out.

[bjc]

Well one of them (ED) jumped once he saw it wasn't going anywhere.

Come on let's get an ED flip; he doesn't even post much at all. I've been waiting for an answer to my questions for days now, and he's been here twice and neglected every question both times.

[bjc]

Come on guys, there's no harm in putting someone else at L-1 with intent to hammer.

[bjc]

Sounds like an ok thing. I am just curious on what most people think of ED.

[bjc]

If you needed a reason to lynch doge before...

Robw isn't the lynch; he's going to be replaced at this rate (unless of course he drops another 5 word reply soon).

Let's get an ED flip plz.

[bjc]

How is emeraldoge L-4? I believe a few others have ED listed as null-scum or worse; wtf guise.

[bjc]

Why Rob?

[bjc]

The key there is more than, and that's also something you think. Neither means he's replacing out/not posting because he's scum.


In fact, I've seen him post repeatedly (not sure if in here) that he's having a hard time getting settled into MS. He treats all games the same; I doubt he's scum in every single game.

[bjc]

I don't think I discussed anything to the point of violating any rules.

[bjc]

Was afraid I'd see "prod dodge"

[bjc]

lets see how you react.

I don't like this for two reasons:
- I want him lynched; this needs to have intent of lynching, not to only put pressure on him.
- Stating that it's for pressure will do nothing.

[bjc]

I know but saying "let's see how you handle the pressure" or whatever defeats the purpose. Is ED really going to feel threatened by two votes, one of which that doesn't have intent to kill?

Others should swap doe. TS, you know you're starting to doubt ED being town. Nacho, you pegged ED as scum #2. Let's do it, folks. At least L-1.

[bjc]

It's still us three posting in circles...

I can't see ika being scum. I am having a hard time seeing TS as scum and his ability to think about things (if genuine) has helped my view on him.

People I want to hear from:
Nacho
LMB
AboTT's replacement
Robw's replacement (

MOD: It's very clear this guy is not settling into this game; please replace him.

)

[bjc]

Pretty please with sugar on top!

Also, to Rob: I understand not being able to get "into" the game. Don't take your replacement personally. I hope you're able to settle into a game in the future!

[bjc]

It's still us three posting in circles...

I can't see ika being scum. I am having a hard time seeing TS as scum and his ability to think about things (if genuine) has helped my view on him.

People I want to hear from:
Nacho
LMB
AboTT's replacement
Robw's replacement (

MOD: It's very clear this guy is not settling into this game; please replace him.

)

By "hear from" I mean I want to know their thoughts on everything that has transpired since this game got quiet/became a game of me, ika, and TS arguing with each other.

[bjc]

Your predecessor was voting a guy about to be replaced IIRC, please help make an ED wagon.

You will see I'm not as scummy as I appear.

[bjc]

Oh gosh calling someone godly at something like this is lol worthy. I'm sure Nacho is good, but get out of here with that talk.

Also, IIoA seems pretty straight forward to me. There is a big difference between presenting information and analyzing it. Unless this site has it's own definition for it...

[bjc]

Question for ika:

Let's say deadline was in five minutes, and there were two wagons at L-1; one on me and the other on ED.

Who would you choose in those five minutes?

[bjc]

So let's lynch ED dammit. Once ED saw I was in no danger of getting hammered he made some big post about how "oh look bjc is null now."

[bjc]

......... Okay. Whatever, someone hammer me so I can play in a different newb game.

[bjc]

Also, lol at my play hindering you.

[bjc]

Answer me this:

How is it stalling my own lynch when I along with others believe ED is scum? I'm not the only one that thinks ED is possible scum.

[bjc]

I have a hard time believing ika is scum. He seems to kinda ignore ED being a possible lynch cand, so I'd like to look into ika day two.

ED is a great starting point, IMO.

[bjc]

BS ika, you're still worth looking into next day. If there's a cop, you should be investigated by them.

[bjc]

ED is L-2 IIRC.

[bjc]

Never mind the cop comment; if there's a roleblocker we could be headed for some WIFOM regarding a potential blocked investigation.

[bjc]

No, put him at L-1 WITH INTENT TO HAMMER

[bjc]

How on earth is TS's above post pro town in any way?

[bjc]

I know. I guess I should've said with intent to lynch.

[bjc]

Thankfully you see why that last post by TS is bothersome.

[bjc]

This thread has a very good opening post.

QFT

Also I don't see why my last post is bad, I showed that I want a bjc lynch more than an ED lynch but just by a bit.

So you should be just fine with putting ED at L-1. There are other days in the game to go after me.

[bjc]

I may be willing to compromise with ED if ED can convince the town to vote TS.

[bjc]

Time to bring TS down.

unvote; vote: TierShift

as a side note, the f*** are you talking about TS? Every time the game stalled out I did something to at least help propel us forward. I drew attention to myself; I drew both scum on my wagon; I pointed out things I didn't like.

I'm sure if you asked TS he'd tell you I was the worst player evar at mafia.

Whatevs, bro. It's time we get a flip.

You also misinterpret what I said about rob to my "attackers" and you also conveniently missed my post when I originally made it!

[bjc]

I don't really believe TS is town. That's where I am with him. He has done absolutely nothing to improve his image; he's only made it worse.

[bjc]

enough of your survivalism play. at this point your play is becoming more hindeirng to me then helpful if your town.

......... Okay. Whatever, someone hammer me so I can play in a different newb game.

^
Does this look like survivalist to you?
And if his play is hindering you then you're effectively pushing for a policy lynch, now that i finished reading im thinking on bjc as more town. Maybe because I've been in his position before.
Also Ika leaning more scum =/

Don't even try to insinuate 608 is not very very easily fakeable by scum.

That said, bjc doesn't look like it's gonna happen and emerald is, so I'll switch over the next few days if bjc doesn't start picking up votes again.

This post is scummy as hell, that's my opinion. AT BEST it is anti-town.

This thread has a very good opening post.

QFT

Also I don't see why my last post is bad, I showed that I want a bjc lynch more than an ED lynch but just by a bit.

This actually makes it worse IMO.

I just wanna hear from emerald once more before driving him up to a claim...I'm not really convinced so far.

Now, because he knows ED is town or his scumbuddy, he's backing off. Riiight.

Not to mention I believe someone showed his flip-flopping with RobW.

[bjc]

Also, interacting with others/this game becoming alive again has also helped.

[bjc]

TS is doing his best to deflect everything coming his way as best as possible.

[bjc]

ika, IMO that is a stupid idea. I am not one to do great big posts about why someone is scum, and generally don't get the point across as well as I should. So you want to vote based on who the better presentation-giver is? Sounds legit to me.

[bjc]

Your post was anti-town because you're holding off on the ED wagon for silly reasons. If you really do prefer a wagon on me by just a little bit, you should be a-okay with voting for ED. After all, you make it sound like you're down to vote him. You're stalling for some reason.

Perhaps it's because ED is your scumbuddy. I doubt that is it. So perhaps it's because you

know

ED is town. After all scum know who the townies are.

Perhaps you want to make sure you can kill someone else once ED has claimed a PR, that way you can attempt or think about killing ED at night to put the town down two including a PR the next day. Who knows? That's why I want a flip on you.

Then you say, "why was my last post bad? I just said I prefer a bjc lynch by a little bit." So you should be fine with seeing an ED flip! Should you not?

All in all you show a reluctance to vote ED and put him L-1, which does not mean ED will be lynched by any means. Why is that?

p-edit: ika, am I supposed to be afraid of you voting a townie? No? Okay, so why do you always threaten me if I don't play by your rules?

That gets old.

[bjc]

See my last post.

[bjc]

That's not everything, but it covers why I've suddenly gone back to him.

[bjc]

sigh, both cases sucked....

Oh man you're really helping here. Didn't see what you wanted to see, I guess.

knw what, fuck it. im just gonna have to iso both of you and decide myself...

Wow I wonder who thought about that being a part of the game of mafia.

[bjc]

Yeah but ika basically was going to decide on something that looked prettier.

[bjc]

I'd also like to point out that, despite bjc's very early willingness to toss his vote around, he has become increasingly cautious with changing votes as the game has gone on. I personally don't think it's a strong enough behavioral switch to go off of, but I didn't see any real mention of it.

I'm curious what you mean here.

Like I said, early in the game I'll throw votes out like candy. At this point in the game though it's different because then I DO find people I find scummy.

For instance, at this point in the game it'll take a hell of a lot more to make me vote nacho than it did early in the game when TS "convinced" me by saying IC wagons are cool.

Earlier in the game I'd vote ika in a heartbeat, but now? Not so fast my friend.

[bjc]

So was it really worth pointing out? Sure, I guess. I don't really think it will ultimately change anything unless TS tries deflecting heat towards me again.

[bjc]

Don't you feel silly now?

[bjc]

".. dynamite with a laser beam! Guaranteed to blow your mind!"

[bjc]

K so bjc is now confirmed town. Any questions? No? Good.

Did the avatar not give it away? lol

[bjc]

I forgot that specific song until you did that though.

If you haven't heard that song live (Queen Rock Montreal) you're missing out.

[bjc]

ED's post(s) that I labelled IIoA were the same/pretty close. None of his "analyzing" seemed genuine.

[bjc]

Glad to see the game has picked up overall since Sakura's replacing in. Now we determine the primary lynch candidate.

[bjc]

I tthink TS is a better lynch.

Will ansswer TS;s question later.

[bjc]

Why?

Will the replacement be in before deadline?

[bjc]

My name is my initials, lol. Creative, wow.

[bjc]

not shocked

[bjc]

facepalm

[bjc]

Not convinced.

[bjc]

vote: pisskop

[bjc]

L-2

[bjc]

pisskop, finish your reads and claim.

[bjc]

Yes, we will wait. Don't drag it on; if you have the time, do it.

[bjc]

What the hell sakura, he didn't finish his reading. LOL

[bjc]

Oh well, I'm interested in the flip tbh. I think the chance of him being scum is okay when looking at what we have. Personally, regardless of flip TS and ED come under the microscope tomorrow.

[bjc]

Pisskop, lay out your reads, jesus.

[bjc]

Of course, I'm not saying we tunnel them. Never never never.

[bjc]

pretty anti town here . . .

Stop avoiding it. If you were pro town you would lay out the reads to help us tomorrow. You're the one being anti-town.

[bjc]

^^like

[bjc]

You are stalling, and doing a bad job at it. You're also being highly uncooperative.

[bjc]

ika is still town to me. You're not doing anything to help us either.

[bjc]

youve seen what I can do. now youll see it again.

What exactly have I seen you do?

[bjc]

Jeez, I just love these forceful, threatening/challenging posts by 'kop. /sarcasm


Lynch this guy by sunset, please.

[bjc]

Please continue ISOing me and see where we already discussed that stuff. Kthx

[bjc]

Good stuff koppie

my current scumreads put emerald, ika, nacho, lmb, bjc, tier, hana, ray. bleh. now should I stop reading?

What?

[bjc]

Not so much considering there's several hundred posts between each. Claim or die, scum.

[bjc]

Don't worry half of it is hard to understand and the rest is scum. So not much will change for you.

[bjc]

The above is in response to nacho saying he hasn't read a word from kop lol

[bjc]

Not when pisskop is still in this. Lol

[bjc]

What exactly are we waiting for?

Do we just continue to let Pisskop through stuff at the wall until deadline hits or...?

I get wanting to hear what yet another replacement has to say, but what's the plan?

[bjc]

Yes pisskop, the more I push for your lynch the more scummy I become to you. Consider me not surprised.

[bjc]

What has sakura done that is scummy?

[bjc]

I thought 827 was kinda scummy. (see 979).

Not seeing it at all. I'm also not seeing any connections between TS and Sakura.

[bjc]

a newbie is 1.5 times more likely to replace out as scum

so, That leaves us with a 60% 40%. Ill take those odds.

Talking about ika?

I won't take those odds. If you're talking about ika this is extreme survivalist on your part.

It's pretty much you, TS, or ED. It's in that order, too.

[bjc]

It's pretty much you, TS, or ED. It's in that order, too.

I already explained the difference with the 1st 2, those were people that didnt even read their role PMs so they wouldn't have known they were scum.
I can imagine the feeling of newbies as scum, considering I had the same type of feeling of "OMG I DONT WANNA DO THIS!" on my second newbie (1st scum) game, but at least i didnt replace out due to pressure.

? What?

I'm not using the replacement stats in any way. RobW did pick up his role PM, and pisskop replaced RobW IIRC.

So many replacements, sheesh.

So again: Kop is #1 on my list for being scummy+being very little help to the town regardless of alignment (unwillingness to help the town at times is key), followed by TS, and then ED.

[bjc]

Okay, so.. Will someone PLEASE hammer. This day has gone on long enough.

[bjc]

RayFrost, do your part, sir. fferyllt with the cute girl avatar adding a few more of her opinions won't change the game between now and the next day(s).

[bjc]

Christ.

[bjc]

Exactly.

You really think he's town?

Who are your top scum reads?

[bjc]

Want to put your vote on ED? I'll join you.

[bjc]

unvote; vote: emeraldoge

[bjc]

I'm pretty sure it's L-2..

[bjc]

Yes, kill it with fire.

[bjc]

Yes, kill it with fire.

Is it just me or you want to kill everything with fire.

I want to kill TS, ED, or pisskop.... fire may or may not be involved.

[bjc]

on other news bjc has evolved from prob town to obvtown for me.

[bjc]

Yo drop that hammer.

[bjc]

unvote; vote: pisskop

Screw it. fferyllt, mind hammering? Or should I switch to Tier?

[bjc]

You don't think your flip helps the town?

[bjc]

Mother of God... The replacements...