Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Katsuki]

VOTE: IK

[Katsuki]

Just saw rule 6. It's a pretty bad rule that punishes good scumplay.

[Katsuki]

WTF WHERE DID ALL T HESE PAGES COME FROM BUSY SITTING ON VENTRILLO PLAYING A LITTLE DOTA

[Katsuki]

Who are you and why are you voting Katsuki?

Well, shit, those are some dumb questions.
1. I'm some dude in the game.
2. He called rule 6 bad because it punishes scum.

See, I saw that as him giving a pre-game critique to Nat. Nothing alignment-oriented?

Why would town even critique a rule that (maybe) punishes scum? I also think the critique assumes way too much. Why not assume the game is balanced around the rule? Town are uninformed; they're gonna assume the game is balanced. Scum are informed; they're more likely to critique a rule cause they know more about the setup. I also think scum are more likely to complain about a rule than punishes scum than town are. The critique is basically more likely to come from scum than town.

I actually really like this. Alright, you've convinced me.

VOTE: Katsuki

What convinced you?
Why would I be more likely to make that comment in thread as either alignment? (how is it alignment indicative?)

[Katsuki]

Ignore my #252.

I'm on pg7 i think or something, will continue later.

for now

UNVOTE VOTE SELKIE

[Katsuki]

So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]

So how about you describe your reason?

Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?

Why are muffin, selkie and I scum?

[Katsuki]

This may be just putting a huge kick me sign on my back, but i looked at rule 6 a lot differently...

It hurts the town worse in my estimation. 13 players,, probably 3 or 4 scum. The burden falls on us as the town to make a decisive lynch, otherwise, we're basically asking natirasha to kill us herself...If, for example, we do not have a majority by the end of this dp, 9/14 times, a townie will be killed (assuming 4 scum).

I'm frankly suprised that i am the only one who sees it that way...

alright, i've said my bit, here you go:

It's not really game relevant to discuss this, but no-lynching due to deadline is bad townplay and thus deserves to be punished anyways. Nati just makes it REALLY extreme (and hey, we might get get a scum who was never gonna get lynched struck down by the heavens!).

[Katsuki]

People

not named cabd

don't actually get to slap down a scumread on me and then not push that wagon. That's not how this works.

FTFY

It's amazing how often I forget that you're actually a person and not just an annoying bot.

Pedit: Oh, glorious MafiaSSK, "I am known to lurk at times. I am known to be anti-town. I am known for policy lynches. So yeah.", depart unto us more holy advice with which to lynch the wretched scum

Wait, when did I say that?
And why can't my advice be treated as equal here?

It's on your damn wiki page, Mr. "How-Dare-You-Call-Me-An-Easy-Lynch"

I might consider it if you had a smidgeon of reasoning behind it. But it doesn't, much like your vote on me. For, uh, what was it again? Oh right. Nothing.

Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.

Sorry, was busy updating my wiki page. That thing hasn't been updated since I left back in 2010.

It's not nothing.

But yeah. I think you've convinced me for the Muffin wagon.
VOTE: muffin

Walk me through your thought process on getting "convinced" on all these scumreads.

[Katsuki]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

Give Aronis a break, Cabd. I'm pretty sure they're new.

interesting

[Katsuki]

So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]

So how about you describe your reason?

Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?

Why are muffin, selkie and I scum?

Ignore my #252.

I'm on pg7 i think or something, will continue later.

for now

UNVOTE VOTE SELKIE

I love the hypocrisy here. It's so great.

I would ask what hypocrisy, except that there was none at all.

[Katsuki]

So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]

So how about you describe your reason?

Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?

Why are muffin, selkie and I scum?

Your original post about Rule 6 being unfair to the Mafia seemed suspicious at the time. Then when zMuffin posted that you were town without stating a reason, their seemed to be a possibility you were in league.

UNVOTE

I was hoping for a wagon to develop, but muffin ruined it by posting exactly what it was that was not scummy about my statement.

That said selkie is still scum that orca post lol

[Katsuki]

I'm not sure about zMuffin. His defense of Katsuki felt contrived. I get disagreeing with me and calling Katsuki null, but calling Katsuki town feels like overcompensating, and somewhat scummy.

Hardly.

I was very surprised with muffins post because he managed to completely read my thought process, and his analysis was spot on (I would have made that comment in the QT or PM as scum as oppose to posting it in the thread).

[Katsuki]

prpddodge

[Katsuki]

VOTE: Katsuki

-o

^scumposting

[Katsuki]

nope i havent read the game.

[Katsuki]

*or more so, caught up since I last read which was a while ago i think.

[Katsuki]

You think I'll be policy lynched?

[Katsuki]

I guess I should really be worried about that one vote on me.

There are, however, multiple things that are wrong with your #498.

[Katsuki]

I don't plan on posting a case.

She's scum because her PM says so.

[Katsuki]

Muffin's nonproductive posts worry me...I'm seriously considering voting him if he doesn't step up soon.

you should follow your heart then because i have no intention of "stepping it up" any time soon

Why are you making a post that I would totally make lol (well sans the first part of it)

[Katsuki]

nope i havent read the game.

You know, I don't even know what to say at this point.

Do you think it's alignment indicative though?

you stupid fucker.

That is rude, mean and utterly uncalled for. Natimodpls

[Katsuki]

kinda sick and forgot about game iwll post someday maybe

[Katsuki]

What you wanna talk about?

[Katsuki]

Updated, concrete thoughts about the game.

That's a nice joke, I lol'd.

[Katsuki]

I'm pretty sure it's also a proven scum meta of mine that if I'm providing concrete thoughts and cases I'm scum, so no thanks I'm not gonna do that this game haha.

[Katsuki]

Gamestate without reading the game? Damn this is gonna be a hard one.

I'd say, selkie scum is wagoned, partnerbert and selkiescum are doing all they can to get a counterwagon going but it's not working well.
Then you have a bunch of other ppl who are useless/scum. Not sure which were the ones who called me scum or a good policy lynch/jester outside of fourtrouble, but that's a really bad assessment to be making if town (who the fuck just leaves it at

"oh this jester or policy lynch is good watch me say this as I do not look for scum"

).
Actually typing this post right now I really need to go back and look (or you can do it for me <3). But yeah I at least found my scum, there are too many who aren't even scumhunting and looking for easy wagons or leaving the backdoor open if a katsuki-wagon pops up (those are probably your selkie scumbuddies).

[Katsuki]

Also depending on how many of those ppl I mentioned in the 2nd half of my post there are, bert might just be lolbadtown.

[Katsuki]

@Katsuki, any ETA for a catchup?

Probably never. (while I'd love to say maybe, it has never happened in the 3+ yrs I've been here so)

[Katsuki]

I'm pretty sure it's also a proven scum meta of mine that if I'm providing concrete thoughts and cases I'm scum, so no thanks I'm not gonna do that this game haha.

so why are you an asset to the town if this is how you play? What reason should you stay in the game for. You only make conrete thoughts and cases when you're scum, so you are basically a useless townie...

Gamestate without reading the game? Damn this is gonna be a hard one.

I'd say, selkie scum is wagoned, partnerbert and selkiescum are doing all they can to get a counterwagon going but it's not working well.
Then you have a bunch of other ppl who are useless/scum. Not sure which were the ones who called me scum or a good policy lynch/jester outside of fourtrouble, but that's a really bad assessment to be making if town (who the fuck just leaves it at

"oh this jester or policy lynch is good watch me say this as I do not look for scum"

).
Actually typing this post right now I really need to go back and look (or you can do it for me <3). But yeah I at least found my scum, there are too many who aren't even scumhunting and looking for easy wagons or leaving the backdoor open

if a katsuki-wagon pops up (those are probably your selkie scumbuddies)

.

closest thing you've done that resembles scum hunting. You basically are only saying that if selkies is scum, then bert is scum too.

Oh and lets not forget you basically saying anyone who votes for me is scum. I can't ever recall hearing of a pre-meditated omgus, thats almost impressive... almost

@Katsuki, any ETA for a catchup?

Probably never. (while I'd love to say maybe, it has never happened in the 3+ yrs I've been here so)

Is this how you typically play? Not making cases, putting pressure, or even reading the thread??

How does that work out for you?

I still am suspicious of selkies, and i realize the following two things:

1 - if i am suspicious of selkies, why vote for the same person as them?
- because i have been rethinking my initial selkies read for the last few days. In that time, katsuki has done less than nothing.

2 - If i am suspicious of selkies, why am i voting for someone that is also suspicious of selkies?

- because i don't get think katsuki's read is genuine. He even admitted that he wouldn't be making concrete cases, so at best his reads are gut instinct. It feels as if he is just agreeing with what a lot of people were saying at the time, that selkies was scummy.

UNVOTE: Selkies

VOTE: Katsuki

also not a fan of bert's self-hammer threat, but i understand the tactic. I just happen to disagree with it in this case.

Because I find scum.

Case-writing has never been a part of my playstyle, and is scummy (re: chamber's title). Selkie's push for me being scum early game was bullshit and ingenuine, and that is enough to make them scum. I mean I could continue scumhunting their posts and reading through a game that would probably make me repeatedly head-desk, or I could not waste my time wading through a marsh.

This isn't really one of those playerbases that I can easily influence anyways so I'm better off waiting until D3 or something before doing anything. It's my preferred playstyle and I've never been lynched for it.

[Katsuki]

I see you're still terrible at this game IK.

[Katsuki]

It's sad because I'm never gonna get lynched this game anyways.

[Katsuki]

Didn't I get you lynched as a claimed cop once?

lol I'm pretty sure this has never happened before, I've only one game with you.

[Katsuki]

skimmed iso

Unvote, Vote: Acronis

[Katsuki]

Man now I wish I still had my BEST TOWN PERFORMANCE scummy hanging below my name so that you can continue voting me based on "supposed policy".

At least you're getting rope once Acronis flips scum, Idiot.

[Katsuki]

Spoiler: Inthread Mason chat for Notscience's eyes only

Hey I want in on this too I like mason talk.

[Katsuki]

NACHO THAT BETTER NOT BE A BACKDOOR INTO A POTENTIAL LOLKATSSCUM YOU KNOW THAT SHIT WON'T FLY

[Katsuki]

I would ask muffin to talk some sense into you in that QT but I know better.

I wish you were awesome like your brother is.

[Katsuki]

welp that reminds me you defended me too as scum in that N game...

I have high hopes for you you better not break my heart

[Katsuki]

Since I'm already spamming up the thread

Nacho you better drag yo ass to that molla meet in May.

Now for the rest of you I hope you now understand why I try and keep my posting to a minimum the alternative is that I go back to my old 1x posts/day posting rate. I'm sure you'd much rather active lurking as opposed to spam lurking~

[Katsuki]

Heads up I will be

Semi-V/LA Sun-Thurs

, impromptu vegas business trip. >.>

[Katsuki]

NACHO THAT BETTER NOT BE A BACKDOOR INTO A POTENTIAL LOLKATSSCUM YOU KNOW THAT SHIT WON'T FLY

lol katscum trying to railroad me into a townread on him

._.

[Katsuki]

So I kinda prioritized something else before this game but I am tired as fuck.

Not gonna get a chance to post tmr before deadline but p sure ross was one of those who made one of those lolzy open-ended posts about my alignment so meh

unvote vote ross

[Katsuki]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

[Katsuki]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

someone wake me up when we decide to policy this sack of shit

i will try my utmost to do something tonight

FALSE RAGE
TAINTED AND WEAK
LIES BROKEN BEFORE
THE FEET OF FATE

[Katsuki]

A SELKIE WAGON??!?

VOTE SELKIE

Could you at least explain this vote?

you stupid fucker.

That is rude, mean and utterly uncalled for. Natimodpls

[Katsuki]

Man you gotta love this game.

[Katsuki]

Also someone tell me why aronis wasn't lynched yesterday never saw why wagon turned around.

Regardless, he should be the first one to die with a selkie scumflip.

[Katsuki]

Man you gotta love this game.

And what the hell does this post mean?

Obvious troll reasoning is obvious

not like I was calling selkie scum way before that anyways

[Katsuki]

not like I was calling selkie scum way before that anyways

You still didn't explain what Selkies has to do with me being scum.

Does it need explaining?

[Katsuki]

not like I was calling selkie scum way before that anyways

You still didn't explain what Selkies has to do with me being scum.

Does it need explaining?

Why wouldn't it?

Explaining it now is pointless.

[Katsuki]

Because your reasoning thus far for me being scum has been trolling, refusing to play to my scum meta, and voting your scumbuddy.

[Katsuki]

I apologize to everyone about the lies and the deception.

Katsuki had us pegged all game but no oooone wooould liiiiisten!

Scumteam consisted of DGB, spyspy and nuwen.

[Katsuki]

I've given you guys two, what more do you want?

I'll throw you in as a lolzy third, and IK should not be allowed to live to late-game.

[Katsuki]

They're the worst right now, though I can't tell if aronis is VI or scum. I'd be more than happy to update that read with more flips.

Goodfather is worth a look but in honesty I haven't really read his posts aside from knowing that he's voting me.

It's a bit better today with FT dead, I was happy with calling 75% of the game scum yesterday.

[Katsuki]

And given the way you're addressing me, I'm a town read?

Actually, no.

[Katsuki]

I wonder...

[Katsuki]

Because I felt like it.

[Katsuki]

Hm.

[Katsuki]

So I am gonna be busy taking care of family stuff irl for the next day or two, so i thought i'd post now before i won't have a chance to. Seems like i have a wagon on me, and it seems like its nobody's fault but mine for not being particularly active this game. I don't wanna to be lynched today, so here a breakdown of how i see the game so far:

1. MafiaSSK* - 135 ( seemingly blindly accepts a case on katsuki), 166 (another blind acceptance of a selkies lynch), 231 (gets convinced by selkies of a muffin lynch) 236 and 914 (defends aronis the first time, then jumps on the lynch)

over 100 plus posts with almost no content, multiple vote shifts with little to no justification except for blindly accepting other arguments. 270 is the only semblance of scumhunting

SSK is one of my scum reads

2. Cabd - town; seems to be scumhunting in earnest

3. Selkies(fferyllt+orcinus_theoriginal) - null; not sure about selkies. Still adjusting to hydras

4. zMuffinMan - null leaning town; his playstyle is very foreign to me, a lot of his posts lack justification, but it seems as if he reserves his reasoning for posts like 590. out of the three in the neighborhood, he is 2nd most likely to be town imo (after IK and before aronis)

6. notscience King Kenny - null leaning town; this read is a lot my read on bert. Their posts, also kinda like nachos are more conversational than i am used to. i am also thrown off by the whole in thread qt thing they have going on.

7. The Goodfather** - town

8. Nachomamma8 kabooooom - like bert and NS, i am getting a mostly null vibe, but i am leaning scum just because that was how i read his slot while kaboooom was playing.

9. Bert Karlos4 - same as not science, null leaning town

11. Aronis** - scum (most likely scum in the neighborhood). He has changed his votes almost 10 times, altogether voting for 6 or 7 different people, with little to no reasoning each time. seems to just hop on whatever wagon is convenient

12. Idiotking* - like his playstyle, and i think he is the most likely town in the neighborhood

13. Katsuki* - scum - seems to be trying to skate by without doing anything. Maybe his meta, but if this is his town game, he is not an asset to our game at all

those are my thoughts.

I am gonna try to post more in the next couple of days, but i may be busy.

This post does not give you a free pass, but certainly earns some town points, IMO. Thank you.

lllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[Katsuki]

UNVOTE VOTE: GF

[Katsuki]

Read tmr

[Katsuki]

A lot of people have said they would policy lynch katsuki, but no one has acted on it

There's always scum to be found amongst those, but I haven't had the energy nor time nor motivation to read through.

[Katsuki]

And nacho doesn't have me read as town?

Maybe he is scum.

[Katsuki]

i don't like meta

Meta works for certain players, y/n?

[Katsuki]

And nacho doesn't have me read as town?

Maybe he is scum.

there is a limit on how much research i can do to find out from the past and this game that you read people who don't read you as town as scum

y/n

Nacho is different, he should be able to read me easily. Despite my town game being painfully obvious, I don't expect everyone to be able to pick up on it.

There are certain players for which this is a 100% scumtell, such as ooba calling me scum in N's recent game. I apply it very selectively, as I know for which players this scumtell is true for.

[Katsuki]

There are other things that I want to address but y'all distracting me from it and I'm at work.

[Katsuki]

Nacho is different, he should be able to read me easily. Despite my town game being painfully obvious, I don't expect everyone to be able to pick up on it.

you're not voting ssk with me

There's a reason why I'm only posting in GD rather than my games. = =

I'll look through things someday

[Katsuki]

SSK's been active?

I dunno because SSK always reads scum to me welp, but he's not amongst those I'd rather lynch first.

[Katsuki]

Have some thoughts I want to look into at a later time.

[Katsuki]

Doubtful I've been sick for the past 2 weeks and it's taken everything to not die at work.

My brain is quite scrambled right now.

[Katsuki]

So I lied not gonna get caught up in this game anytime soon.

[Katsuki]

Think I'm due for a proddodge.

[Katsuki]

Think I'm due for a proddodge.

@Natriasha, Can you force people to post content in order to avoid prods? Instead of just prod dodging.

Alternatively, I can just dump my vote on you for the rest of the game and never move it because I'm sure that will make you more happy amirite?

If I had my way, I'd shoot you, selkies, IK and goodfather before I start participating in the game.

[Katsuki]

THIS IS NOTHING COMPARED TO THE BLOODLUST OF KATSUKIPAST. I've been so apathetic I don't know how you could possibly call this bloodlust.

and it's hardly OMGUS these are the players I've had on my scum/needtodielist.

[Katsuki]

FUNNY ISNT IT THAT SELKIE AND IDIOT ARE CALLING FOR MY VIG

ILL ASSUME CABD IS THE VIG AND THAT SELKIE WILL WIND UP DEAD.

AND LOLNO WE'RE NOT MASSCLAIMING ON DAYFUCKINGTWO LOOK AT THIS SELKIE SCUM

[Katsuki]

I would use the shot on someone who is harder to lynch lol

Saki-town from 2013 is what I'm talking about, where in my past games he or she just spammed and voted random people

But are his reads any good?

I mean I'm not always like this. If the games good I'm active, but if it sucks then this is what happens.
I can find example of games where I didn't play until D5 or something, and went on to nail all the scum in LYLO.

[Katsuki]

Do u think he or she is capable of playing better??? Examples from the past???

I didn't have a BEST TOWN PERFORMANCE title for nothing... = =

[Katsuki]

See, this is what happens when people go so far against policy lynching. It encourages people to just not play, period. You can't kill them, because then you're not scumhunting, which means they aren't incentive to play any harder. Which means you can't get any reads on them, which means you CAN'T scumhunt. It effectively limits the town's targets to people who are active, giving people who AREN'T active a free pass. That just sucks the life right out of Mafia. I don't care if the meta changes, I don't care if people start looking for different kinds of tells, THIS is the real scourge of MafiaScum, and it will kill the game.

As it sits, we would not be able to get a good read of Katsuki's play until D4 or D5.

This is bullshit.

That's entirely too late in the game, because we'll be focusing on everybody else. So a policy lynch/policy vig is our ONLY way to avoid that. Sure, it may be sub-optimal for any given game, but in the aggregate it would improve the play quality of the site as a whole. So for heaven's sake, Cabd, shoot Katsuki.

You're asking vig to POLICY instead of shooting scum.

WELP

[Katsuki]

Also,

You're asking vig to POLICY instead of shooting scum.

This only applies if you are not scum, and we have no reason to think otherwise at the moment. And by your playstyle, we wouldn't have any reason to think ANYTHING until a much later day. So yeah, you should totally be policied (policized?).

There is a reason why multiple ppl in this game have me read as town. Because this is not my scumplay, plain and simple. You're just either too bad/scum to be willing to realize that in thread.

[Katsuki]

No, I'm on my phone. I also don't care for his future long term meta and you're suggsting we lynch him to make a long term statement that his or her play is not ok

Hence the ??!!!!!

Yes and this is why site meta is shit right now

Also I'm suggesting to lynch him because he's being townread for adhering to his town meta, which apparently is to be an arrogant useless shitsack. I am not ok with this reason for town reading people

Well, no, that's not why I'm being read as town.

[Katsuki]

Wouldn't the fact that you know that's not your scum-meta completely invalidate that as an accurate tell on you?

It does not. It comes down to mafia theory, but as notscience has noted, there is not a shred of scum motivation behind my play this game.

[Katsuki]

Oh you picked up on that.

I'll address that post-game, remind me~

[Katsuki]

Since lynchproof isn't normal, I can't imagine a reason that won't be cocky as hell.

Regardless, the very simple scum motivation for your playstyle is this: if site meta says lurkers are anti-town and not scum, and anti-town players do not deserve to be killed (because if that's the case then the town isn't scumhunting), then it is an altogether reasonable conclusion that scum should lurk; the more blatant the better. Really, I'd be giddy if you were doing this right now to prove a point.

It's like Cabd (I think) said on D1. With the current meta, some people could just lurk to victory.
But I guess you wouldn't have read that.

See, this is why I don't like to argue with you.

Playstyle and motivation are two separate entities entirely.

The current site meta is :stupid:. I won't lie that it's really easy to win as scum in this meta (my scum WR 4-0 since I started playing again).

Anyways I'm done with this we can spam the thread up with our theory debates post-game, it's a waste of space here.

[Katsuki]

...Well then, moving on.


I'm gonna finally drag my ass up and effort, but I am totally willing to use my vig shot as a policy lynch on kats. He's not helping, no matter how much he bitches and moans. SSK will sort himself given the claim.

If you're policy vigging me I'm replacing out right now because my effort will be wasted.

[Katsuki]

I'm very heavily debating it, so either talk or run, kats.

There's nothing to discuss. There are not enough flips to convince ppl of my reads, and my scumreads have been very very clear.

This playerbase has a strongly differing style to how I play so.

[Katsuki]

I don't really see real effort, Katsuki. You're acting like people are lynching you because of everything you do, and that's so not true. Plus you've been saying you'll get to the game eventually, and then you are here but you don't get to the actual game and catching up.

To start with I would like reasons as to why you think Goodfather, Selkies and whomever are scum. And please stop mentioning that you won a scummy for whatever, because this is a new slate and a new game and your past doesn't qualify you for special treatment in this game. cos every time someone asks you something, you have a stalling answer that puts yourself in a bad light

if there's anything scummy about your play today, it's the tone/attitude you have when being pressed for information.

Yeah I'm reacting too much. It probably would be better for me to just replace out at this point. I hate replacing out for no reason though, but clearly this is not the game for me.

Request replacement

[Katsuki]

fuck i was right on selkie
and GF d2
wish this game wasn't so unfun for me

[Katsuki]

"No, Katsuki, it's a rule to prevent lurksacks like you from lurking til deadline and getting a no lynch! "

Site meta dislikes quickwagons nowadays though. Everyone is scared to wagon or lynch in a single RL day.