Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Bert]

This is my first step forward in repairing my own wall of shame...may it not be followed by any steps backwards

FOR KARMA AND BEYONDDDDDDDDDDDD <333333

Yeah, I /inned as replacement a while back cos Manly Cabd Lady Ffery and Manly Nat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLyKEToqME0

get ready for the BOOM

P-edit: Hi Selkies we have never met! <33333333 You should policy lynch me.

[Bert]

Oh you're Ffery and Orc!

He modded some Skype games for me last semester! Played with him a few times on Skype before last semester too. <3

Never played with him on the forums, as at the time I replaced into 246 Chosen, Mara and Orc's hydra had already been modkilled!

[Bert]

No, but I will tonight. Do you have a reasonable idea of what to expect from me now that Mini 1523 is over and in the past? This applies to muffin and you in particular, that and you being in the completed Ace Attorney game as well.

this feels like Mini 1522 AA redux with Cabd, Ffery, me, Muffin, Nat-mod, SSK. <3

[Bert]

My arrival was repulsive.

[Bert]

Lol. Look at the player list, SSK. Then tell me that if ffery and I tag teamed you, you wouldn't be an easy lynch.

Cabd's right.

Well, I mean, if you mean the 8 or so hours I sleep, then that could be considered lurking, but this game, no lurking otherwise.

Weird wording sounds nervous.

How good do you think ffery's scum game is?

One can plot it as a function of

(strength) = (other head) * (scum partners) 
                 _________________________________
                   (Scary People who can peg her)

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo functions =O

I actually think its useful to know who the good/bad players are, as it helps evaluate their play individually, rather than based on general tells.

Hey! I'm very bad, the worst in this game.

cabd maybe town

katsuki is town, foutrouble is town, mafiassk is maybe town, selkies is scum

Dat reads list <3

The fact that someone reads the rule and thinks its bad because it punishes scum -- that's something that scum are more likely to think than town, regardless of how you try to spin the whole posting it in the thread part (which is WIFOM).

You are so...logical...and that's it!

So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

aww why'd you vote muffin man?? he's the muffin man

http://www.sixprizes.com/forums/threads ... -win.8817/

Totally changed voting patterns and habits. Feel free to read up.

wooooo

This may be just putting a huge kick me sign on my back, but i looked at rule 6 a lot differently...

It hurts the town worse in my estimation. 13 players,, probably 3 or 4 scum. The burden falls on us as the town to make a decisive lynch, otherwise, we're basically asking natirasha to kill us herself...If, for example, we do not have a majority by the end of this dp, 9/14 times, a townie will be killed (assuming 4 scum).

Uhh.......that's confusing!

Sorry, was busy updating my wiki page. That thing hasn't been updated since I left back in 2010.

It's not nothing.

But yeah. I think you've convinced me for the Muffin wagon.

You have played with Muffin before in the past in VisCon 1523 though, so Orc's reason of "Muffin came in and dropped a few scumreads without reasoning, and also is lurky" isn't a scumtell per se?

WTF WHERE DID ALL T HESE PAGES COME FROM BUSY SITTING ON VENTRILLO PLAYING A LITTLE DOTA

This post sounds really scummy and out of place in the middle

Because nothing is more useless than a sheep.

that's a bad reason to vote SSK. I'm a sheep too. He's not lonely. Also, I didn't read your walls cuz the post numbers were there without links

I think you are so ridiculously stuck in the basic conceptions of mafia theory that you shouldn't even be in this game.

Let's shred this post to pieces

dang everyone look at 270, SSK just walled it up in full huge paragraphs. I didn't read it, but dang I've never seen anything like that. Where did this SSK come from?

orcinus
#superfailhydraof2014

+1

Why do you think scum would be found on the easy lynch wagon? When I think of people who would be targetted for easy lynches, I think of new players who have no idea what they're doing but are trying to keep up with people posting text walls, so they rack their brains and end up with bs, which gets them targetted pretty easily. Not that new players can't be scum, but I think new player scum tend to be quiet and stay under the radar and try to get as little attention as possible.

Ooh, you sir have a style that sticks out here as in very different. Hmm!

[Bert]

EBWOP: I was thinking of doing something differently here and picking someone and making up reasons that make little sense to elicit reactions from that certain someone (anyone in this game, randomly) and trying to get random gut reads on everyone slowly that way...but that'd look really out of character for me so I decided not to. I will revert to the status quo for this game until I'm more comfortable doing something else (either way I'll be useless, so doesn't matter really!)

<3

[Bert]

I check the flow of logic, see if it makes sense. If it doesn't then I question. If it does, then I weigh it against the reasoning for my current vote. Whichever comes out stronger wins. And when it wins, if I can think of any other reasons why that person can be scum, then I'll often state it along with the vote.

Your clarity here surprises me in this game.

If I missed anything important, feel free to tell me. My patience for rooting through a lot of pointless banter was kinda low.

Your boredom in going through this game and trying to sort through the posts looks legitimate. You went way past expectations in the recap though while "sorting your brain out." Almost to the point of being really showy.

Your vote is based off a large base of inconsistencies and I sincerely hope you reconsider it.

Yeah, something's going on with you because you're being touchy-feely in statements like this too.

Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?

I don't see what the intent is in making this post and asking if he/she has a better idea.

The tenacity of your read and or push on him is actually giving me confusion and off notes to the tune of "Let's do exactly the opposite of what we did as scum in 1531" so nope. I can't believe I have to tell YOUR HYDRA, of all things, that I'll vote when I'm damn well ready.

I don't know Orc outside of Skype, any tips on reading his play

It hurts the town worse in my estimation. 13 players,, probably 3 or 4 scum. The burden falls on us as the town to make a decisive lynch, otherwise, we're basically asking natirasha to kill us herself...If, for example, we do not have a majority by the end of this dp, 9/14 times, a townie will be killed (assuming 4 scum).

I don't know if you're just really naturally curious about setups and stuff, otherwise why are you bringing this up?

[Bert]

That said, I do remember your "chaotic" style and I remember liking it, but it felt much more purposeful back then. I think that's the difference I'm noting here.

So exceedingly friendly...

because i actually agree with katsuki's sentiments towards rule 6 and I don't think it's scummy in and of itself.

also muffin is actually here and i assume he wants to talk to me!

you approach muffin by voting him and then talking? hmm.

The fact that someone reads the rule and thinks its bad because it punishes scum -- that's something that scum are more likely to think than town, regardless of how you try to spin the whole posting it in the thread part (which is WIFOM).

Ok.......

Sure, but zMuffin is here (or was a second ago) and Katsuki isn't. I'm not gonna just let my vote sit on someone, waiting for shit to happen.

don't like where this explanation seems to come from. not buying it

Vote: FourTrouble

[Bert]

OK so I must be missing something since Muffin didn't seem that scummy and hasn't really put his stamp on this game. is this some kind of wagon to wake him up, or is this serious??

Not feeling so hot this evening, off tomorrow, posting then.

feel better soon, Mr. Every Breath You Take

[Bert]

This is pretty much what he did in my past VisCon 1523, with regard to muffin. His reads were actually pretty solid in that game.

I kinda lost interest because the quantity was so large. In most of the game, it felt like it was mostly 3-4 players talking while a few chimed in every once in a long while.

That, and most of your posts seemed to be you quoting a big quote and making a one-liner comment. I really don't have much to say here. <3

[Bert]

EBWOP: I mean the gut reads, unless you're saying something else about him is scummy, of which I would respond with the fact that I don't know what to look for in him as scum. Never seen him as scum. I read him as scum for the entirety of 1523, as he failed to explain things and also thought everything I did was extremely scummy no matter what I tried. Also, sometimes he did not make sense at all. I roleblocked him twice in that game at night thinking he was scum.

Lastly, I don't know your hydra partner's style, unless Skype Mafia counts!

[Bert]

why are you buddying me so hard, bert?

Oops, I'll work on that. Hey guys, Muffin is scum and I'm not buddying him! He's obvscum. Let's lynch him!

[Bert]

What's your read on muffin right now, null or town?

Who do you think we should be looking at today (aside from fourtrouble)?

Talk to me about Aronis.

(1) Muffin-lean-town
(2) don't know yet
(3) too little content from Aronis to have a nicely shaped opinion, but null-scum because vote/unvote on Muffin looks badly timed

Bert, what do you think of Selkies?

Posts apparently are mostly Orc, and he's completely null. Hopefully Ffery takes charge soon.

[Bert]

Not feeling so hot this evening, off tomorrow, posting then.

I lied, still feeling like shit. Will attempt things again later.

Flu's going around so much on campus, hope you don't have that

Sorry went off on a tangent, will post tomorrow...time to watch Federer vs. Nadal on TV

[Bert]

Uhh... So who is scum then, Ross?

[Bert]

talk to me about why

ft whats your opinion about muffin

and why ross

Muffin is just gut, but I retract what I said about muffin because you're right, one past game does not a meta make. <3

Ross's #347 on the outside looks like a good effort and genuine, but I'm not sure if it's his 2007 style that makes his paragraphs so long-winded, or if he's trying to make it look like he's saying a lot when he's not.

I'd love to hear what others think of Ross though.

This doesn't feel sincere!

[Bert]

Orcinus is approaching you today pretty much the way he approached forming a read on me in NY 165.

Can you describe Orc's playstyle for me?

[Bert]

@Goodfather: Hydra partners can talk amongst themselves outside of the thread, I believe.

Scum-Mara called Orcinus a "rage child" in the AMoL scum QT iirc. I don't think that's accurate, but it may feel that way when he's tunneling someone.

Thanks.

[Bert]

Goodfather, I like the emotion in your posts - the conviction.

[Bert]

If you give me some space [for a while], I can try to reset and try to play to the best of my abilities.

[Bert]

I was only able to get pressure off for like 24-48 real life hours during Mini 1523 (a past game), and that is when I was able to do my own thing for a bit (remember the nonsensical walls I put up?). Suffice to say, I probably can't do anything about your opinion - since you thought every single post I made in that game (1523) was scum and anti-town.

[Bert]

I was trying to avoid needing to be prodded. I was obv too late, not that it matters much

Yeah it does matter. A little worrying that you added that last sentence. Where has anyone indicated that it "doesn't matter much?"

Just by the fucking way we will play our hydra how we want to play our hydra

I don't think Goodfather's opposing the way you play your hydra, so this is pretty overdefensive. And he/she has a point tbh about the first 6-7 pages too blown out of proportion.

still scum

you apparently think i'm scum, though, so i don't know why you care how i feel about it

This sounds anti-town. Sorry, had to say it, since you call everything I do anti-town.

I'm resetting right now.

[Bert]

Because it's hypocritical for me to say, muffin. Because it's hypocritical.

@fourtrouble: the altercation from both sides got more heated than necessary, and both sides are at fault? Not alignment indicative at all... Moving on...

[Bert]

"You think I'm scum, so I don't care what you think" etc. is shutting down from logical discussion

That's how it feels. By the way, I'm putting in a lot of effort in this game to try to be engaged. Please don't use VisCon 1523 and compare that to this.

[Bert]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

Give Aronis a break, Cabd. I'm pretty sure they're new.

Cabd was right about this being scummy.

Almost as bad as me defending Muffin. How do you know Aronis?

1 hour till Aussie open finals. Seeya tomorrow guys

[Bert]

Because I'm more spammy so I have no room to talk...hence my not bringing it up except to agree with whomever brought it up.

[Bert]

Oh, you wound me. My apologies if you guys are too advanced for me, but I've grown fond of training wheels.

Is this to be taken at face value?

I'm confused, because you seem to be thinking that 1. it was too early to matter that you were sheeping, and 2. it was late enough for people to have valid town reads on you. Those conflict, don't they?

Let me break this down...what lovely smartness in your post here. Does this confusion mean you think how MafiaSSK is thinking is 'unusual?'

Bert: Null-leaning anti-town. Not necessarily scummy, but his posts seem to be lighthearted to the point of being useless (#324 is a prime example). #327 doesn't explain reads, but there's not much point in me even bringing that up anymore, since it's all the rage.

What do you think of gut reads in general?

Selkies: Leaning town. Shares my irritation in unexplained votes, rightly probing Bert on his weak "analysis" of the day thusfar (being inexplicably pro-Muffin while also not giving an alternative target).

This is puzzling since you are reading Selkies as town based on actions that town (and scum appearing town) make. They appear irritated about unexplained votes and probe people with weak analysis. Is there another reason you're reading the hydra as town?

[Bert]

Between the playing monkeying and experianced player, and the player throwing names out at random hoping someone will latch on to them, I think we'll find scum

This "I think we'll find scum" feels so cautious!

Vote: RossWilliam

I'm going to get reads by 90% gut this game as I play along for a while, so don't ask me for reads for a while if you are okay with that...

Any list I flesh out now would be terrible and full of everything that tips scum and dummies off that I'm a great lynchbait target.

[Bert]

What do you hope to gain or dispute with those stats?? I don't see eye to eye

[Bert]

actually i m a pretty active player and post pretty often! But i m not being able to follow you guys! And those spams in the starting are really irritating! All what happens in the start is RVS fight and fight,over rules! I haven't read this game with full attention then after. I gave a quick look at iso of all players and selkies and cabd looked more suspicious! As selkies was a hydra and she had more votes, I thought of sheeping her, as if she is scum she will scum slip and if she is not, then the scums would go for hammer. If she seems town even under pressure then go for one of the most suspicious sheeped vote and pressure that player. If that player is scum, he ir she may scum slip. Either way, at this stage of game, i will leave scum hunting to you all.

This post is so overeager town that it's not even funny. <3

[Bert]

That being said, i am not just going to remove my vote. You are in no real danger of being hammered, so for now, i am going to keep my vote on you while i reread the thread and re-evaluate my read to see if anyone else sticks out more as scum.

It seems like you are preoccupied with being seen with your vote on Ffery/Orc. Why did you feel the need to provide a reason to keep your vote on the hydra?

Tentative Gut Reads (please don't kill me for this lol). thought about this game some this afternoon while having an iced latte lol

(1) Idiotking:

[town] starting to think (gut) that Idiotking vs. SSK is Town vs. Town. Reminds me of Mitillos under fire in past Resistance. Game isn't adjusted to current times.

(2) SSK

- town - think this is his town game....ffery what do you think?

(3) Katsuki

- null. Please explain why Selkie is scum??

(4) Ross

- Scum (#347 tone is off)

(5) Kaboom

- town - natural post/wall above in #435.

(6) Muffin

- a little restrained (it feels) in communicating with me. However, early wagon felt scum driven (gut-wise...), so I tend to think town..

(7) Kenny

- #334 and 363 0 just announces me as town for no reason...other than that is null. I don't really get him...is like scum trying to do as little as possible and stay out of the spotlight

(8) Aronis

- #353 feels like town frustration in a toolenduso Micro 260 (past game) kind of way...

(9) fourtrouble

- scum - discussion about rules and #186 explanation for Muffin-vote both feel made up

(10) Selkies

- we need you to be a leader here, ffery, and lead the town - both for my paranoia and for town's sake - take charge because all i notice is Orc doing most of the hard probing.

(11) Cabd

- tempted to call him gut-town, but TBD and null realistically. Will wait for him to feel better and join us again.

(12) Goodfather

- town - transparency is there - hard to explain as it's more intuitive than anything

[Bert]

From the few examples you've provided, it seems like you (both orc and ffery) tend to post more as town. This leads me to believe that the current game is more inline with your town meta than your scum meta. That may be a flawed conclusion, but I think that the data from the other games where you were a hydra together would indicate I might be wrong with my current read on you.

Well, I think it's flawed in that if it's true from the past, they should be aware of it.

[Bert]

#441 was because Ffery once said in a past game that she tended to lurk and hide behind her hydra partner as scum (in the past), so in Mismached Flavor (past game micro 231), she made a conscious effort to not lurk and stay as active as she is as town. It's conjecture, but "biggest open pile of WIFOM I have seen in a bit" is stretching it.

Do you have more things to comment on - aside from the recent posts you've had about what Hydras are and how many are ffery's, etc.?

Feel free to cringe, but maybe pick my posts apart then - or just let ffery sort me so you don't cringe. I think I am the type of poster that you'll probably have to resist raging at because of weak reasoning and logic.

[Bert]

Oh oops. What I meant is that the statistics were about quantity of posting in past town vs. scum games, and I was saying that posting less or more isn't alignment indicative in this game for your hydra as you'd be aware if your past scum-meta were lurking and posting less. Therefore, that element of meta from the past isn't effective/useful.

[Bert]

Does there have to be? If I am leaning town on Selkies because they're doing things that act town, why is that insufficient?

I guess I was secretly hoping there was something else you could probe deeper into to read competent scum players.

[Bert]

I don't like them in the slightest, because you can't talk about them. They simply exist. If you can't argue in favor of them or against them, they're amazingly useless to my form of scumhunting. I am only barely tolerant of them, simply because the site as a whole seems to accept them as at least minimally valid.

Well, I can understand if gut reads appear like a person is inventing stuff and don't appear rational in announcing those gut scumreads, etc.

In general, I don't think casting gut reads aside because they're minimal impact is the best idea.

The confusion thing was just a turn of phrase. My point was that his thinking was inconsistent, meaning his defense didn't hold up.

Do you think SSK is town? You sure have invested a lot of energy to discount his defense...

...no. I was being sarcastic.

OK, I misunderstood that as a genuine reaction to SSK's pressure.

[Bert]

I also think this is pretty damning for zMuffin. As I said before, it's fine to critique my analysis of Katsuki's post on rule 6, but to call Katsuki town on that basis makes no sense whatsoever. zMuffin's analysis was basically saying Katsuki's post was too scummy to come from scum, and then calling Katsuki town on that basis.

I just don't see a townie going that far.

There are players like Nacho who - from past experience - will announce townreads right then and there, in a nanosecond, during page 2 or 3. I am not defending Muffin since I am perplexed by what he is doing in this game (he's dancing around questions/attention right now, for example)...I'm looking at the case on Muffin, and this part isn't too convincing. But, I can see your point and why you might think that, as I have brought up (in past games) the same suspicions against Nacho. I know, I know, comparison to two players and two totally different situations...but that is my point of reference/relating to put my thoughts together.

Also process of elimination.

With that said, your using "PoE" on D1 when some players have barely shown up, to call a few people scum, is going just as far as Muffin did for a townread - which is what you accused him of doing.

[Bert]

But it also stinks of fishing for reasons. The only reason I didn't vote for you based just on that was because you don't seem to be that colossally stupid.

You believe in "too stupid a move to be scum"?

Goodfather taking the "spamming" point too far. I'm kinda torn now. His read on Selkies doesn't seem genuine.

What do you think of the "Rule 6" discussion earlier in the day? I'm interested to hear who you think took it to far with that other discussion.

[Bert]

I have only one past game (VisCon 1523) to fall back on, which doesn't speak well for my point of view.

Nacho's early reads on page 2 or 3 don't really make sense and seem to be more gut (from my past memories).

If there is a problem with the reasons behind my reads, point them out. Tell me why Aronis, or King Kenny, are not town. But don't tell me that PoE is going too far when I've provided reasons for all my reads. That doesn't compute.

Fair enough. I mean, as for pointing things out, I don't see how you are somewhat confident that Kenny is town right now. But looking back, I sorta get it. A little...I think... I get what you mean about Aronis looking pretty town, though.

I think scum would have tried to rationalize their read more. King Kenny's explanation just makes sense given the view I'm getting of the guy. Is it a solid read? No. But it sure has more town in it than anything Katsuki or zMuffin has posted.

Basically, I don't think it's alignment indicative to call my posts "natural" and "therefore town," which is the basis behind you thinking Kenny is more townie than Katsuki or Muffin. I've heard scum and town say the same thing in the past.

I can see where you're going with Katsuki. Everything about his/her posts is asking pointed questions without arriving at any sort of resolution. Completely null, and it shouldn't be that way with a player.

[Bert]

FourTrouble. Thanks for finally explaining your vote, but I think your preoccupied with how I play. Some people throw votes and pressure around and use that to find scum, I tend to think out loud and see what people respond to and see how they interact with eachother. You can call it cautious or unagressive, but in my opinion you're more likely to find scum in someone who is trying too hard or being ingenuine.

There's no room for townies to be deceptive. And if I was going after easy lynches, I'd be campaigning hard against some who would have a hard time defending himself, this game has a couple.

My vote isn't on anyone yet and it'll stay that way until I have more to go on. I'm interested in King Kenny and Kaboooom because I don't have anything on them right now, and I want to compare them to the people who are currently topping my scum list

That just screams scum, and I can't figure out why it bothers me. Oh well.

As I've said, I am wary of hydras, and I will continue to be as long as they remain unknown to me.

That may be simple minded, but i have found that skepticism is often justified in this game, especially this early in the game

This feels either unbelievably innocent-sounding or manipulative, depending on how you look at it.

I'm trying to think about Goodfather. My only inkling so far with perspective is that he can ramble on a lot, and often not really scumhunting-based, if you get my drift...

That being said, i am not just going to remove my vote. You are in no real danger of being hammered, so for now, i am going to keep my vote on you while i reread the thread and re-evaluate my read to see if anyone else sticks out more as scum.

Ffery, this is the type of post that really got to me in Newbie 1415 (past game). I get bothered when people just go "let me take a long, long moment before I place this really, really tactical vote." Exaggerating, but......

If I had to guess, I would say that this is orc's post i am responding too, but I am not sure. Am i wrong??

My observation is that you're preoccupied with discussing Orc and Ffery and their hydra, and I don't see how this discussion is going to do any good...what do you say to that?

Kaboom seems more like he's got no clue what's going on, regardless of alignment, and I'm not sure why he's in the game.

Eh, from the look of his/her posts, he

could

be scum faking 'not being able to keep up with the spam.' That could be a tactic to coast as scum, maybe...

[Bert]

EBWOP:

But like I said, sometimes a single post is all you need to figure someone's alignment out. I remember playing a game (different site) where I called out the 3/4 of a mafia on the first or second page, with only 1-2 posts from each player.

You don't need a lot to figure things out. You just gotta know what to look for.

That's a good point.

Off topic: At this point, I'm not really looking for things (not sure exactly what I'm looking for), per se, but just trying to participate so that I am engaged and giving whatever feedback comes to mind (hope it's not to a fault). Right now, tacky comments and responses stand out, but having gut-reactions does not equal finding scum.

[Bert]

I thought it was pretty alignment-neutral - if you mean the back-and-forth that escalated quickly?

One side got offended, then lashed out...

What do you think of it? Maybe I'm missing something.

First thoughts that come to mind are some happenings in Wingate (past mini) where this kind of thing happened several times on different days too...it lead to replace-outs I think...

Second thought is that it's easy for scum to hide behind that kind of escalation.

Just found my earlier response, which is the same vein as what I just typed:

@fourtrouble: the altercation from both sides got more heated than necessary, and both sides are at fault? Not alignment indicative at all... Moving on...

[Bert]

I like that response Re: Goodfather. When you ask most hydras what you've been asking Selkies, it's usually easy to get answers without resistance.

I've played with Ffery in the past, and I'm having trouble telling the heads apart too. I'm not quite sure they recognize how their posts are so....different YET similar...

[Bert]

Any opinions to add, Katsuki?

[Bert]

Then why have you been tunneling Selkie if you haven't caught up?

Also, you've made comments about Muffin and an assortment of a few other players. It just seems like you're not interested in the game.

Do you plan to catch up soon? If you don't, you may become a policy lynch soon in the mold of myself (I get policy lynched quite a bit and also fall behind, never catch up, etc.).

[Bert]

EBWOP: I have gotten policy lynched quite a bit in the past, I mean.

It takes guts to call out a vote on you as 'scumposting.'

-->

VOTE: Katsuki

-o

^scumposting

[Bert]

@Katsuki:

No. But Selkies is pushing your lynch and you're not exactly a universal townread right now - on most scum/null-lists, actually.

Also, Muffin's nonproductive posts worry me...I'm seriously considering voting him if he doesn't step up soon.

So why are you so sure that Selkies is scum? Outline the case for me please. <3

[Bert]

What's wrong with it?

Also, you are pretending I never asked you why you think Selkies is scum.

[Bert]

you should follow your heart then because i have no intention of "stepping it up" any time soon

Good to know...was thinking maybe the early wagon on ye might wake yer booty up...nvm

Aww it would be cool if ye tried though, since I be making a conscious effort to stay engaged and not fall behind forever in this game!

She's scum because her PM says so.

Never heard this argument before. <3 This is refreshing!

[Bert]

i am observing, and thinking, and trying to figure things out. i am just not showing all my working in thread.

An explanation as such is all I could ask for!

Worried because Katsuki is seriously asking for votes with the "Selkies is scum because it's in their role PM."

Yuk!

Reminds me of voting phokdapolees in Chosen Mafia (past game Micro 246). Distractions, darn distractions, darn, reminds me of myself.

Vote: Katsuki

I'll bite.

[Bert]

Approx four hours later you post this:

Because most of my past games, I have gotten lazy and never gotten to it. I actually got to it this time, but I gave myself some time (all game, practically) in case I didn't get it done.

I can't place it in a game, but I think I remember Cabd making a similar observation about a newbie player before. And I feel like I've seen SSK take up for a newbie player this way in the past.

I don't think it was the same game.

Is it alignment indicative in the past for either of them, or is the sample size too small?

[Bert]

Katsuki is either a jester, or he's blatantly over this game, which tells me town.

Scum don't check out of a game on day 1

No. That's not a reliable statement.

Can there be jesters in this game, or is that not in normal?

Either way, I think Katsuki would be a waste of a lynch.

Why is it a waste of a lynch to you?

[Bert]

I think Cabd's town because gut!

[Bert]

And what does your other head think?

Town! I might sheep you later because Ffery hasn't been town enough yet - she should lead but isn't really taking charge yet and apparently isn't caught up....which has me wondering...I'm looking for where she pronounces something and like I instantly want to consider buying in...I don't feel that yet with her

[Bert]

Imagine if Falcon were in this game too...tonight would be the biggest offsite meta extravaganza I've laid my eyes on...culminating in nailing a strong scum/townread on Goodfather hopefully! <3

CHEESE BUCKETS DOUBLE WHAMMY WHY SLIP FAIL BERT FAIL

[Bert]

Nice, Beijing...it would be funny if Orc and I just started speaking Mandarin in this game (totally kidding, btw, not being serious at all).

I was waiting for Orc to possibly talk about Ross/FT as well.

I might look at Ross/FT later today

Got those warning signal feelings that my reads are way wrong, so seeing other perspectives is great.

[Bert]

Nice beetlejuice in response to Cabd, especially after last night's response when prodded, Muffin Man.

am observing, and thinking, and trying to figure things out. i am just not showing all my working in thread.

Inconsistencies abounding - today your excuse is you're not at a PC and can't write anything lengthy, whereas this quote from last night was a completely different excuse --> in the mold of Empking's "I'm holding my cards close and not showing 'em" from VisCon 1523 (past game we were in together).

[Bert]

I'll call it a "disappearing act unless called upon"

Or maybe you're obeying the "don't speak unless you're spoken to" rule, in which case - not cool, buddy <3

[Bert]

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum.

I've been thinking the same thing, except about SSK, not muffin. That's where paranoia lives lol.

By that I mean, my past games with SSK (AA which you were in, and VisCon) had a distinctly different SSK style.

[Bert]

What do you think of Katsuki, and do you consider him/her a policy lynch?

[Bert]

That's just because it's a game modded by Natirasha, so I give my best here.

Same here! I can hear him yelling at me post-game if I don't give 100.1%!

[Bert]

So Katsuki is town because he/she voted Aronis? I get it...

P-edit: K.

[Bert]

If Cabd shapes a nice beautiful read on Ffery before day 1 ends, then I think we all will sleep so much better tonight (N1)...

That's my only brain-fried comment for tonight. Later...zzzzzzzz

[Bert]

The Aronis and Katsuki wagons are pretty easy to latch onto...

[Bert]

Can we have a reads list, please, Ffery? <3 6 days left, you haven't spoken of quite a few players

[Bert]

Katsuki's thoughts are scattered and hard to follow, and his/her vote on Selkies doesn't carry much meaning

[Bert]

50/50, same with Aronis.

Both are universally scummy if you go by the conventional scumtell book.

Vote: Selkies

Gut for now, I want Ffery to speak more about the broader picture - not just things that are comfortable for her to write, like meta on a specific few players - that lets her off the hook from having to talk about everyone.

[Bert]

Gut? Aronis Town, Katsuki town

logically not so much

[Bert]

Which players?

[Bert]

Oh...

I thought Goodfather's pretty town (i Lol'd when he/she brought up that "Selkies is scum cos post counts from past games" thing...kabooooom probably the most questionable (4 posts, although 1 post while easily fake-able seemed legit...could easily be coasting scum, considering his vote is from the RVS stage and it hasn't been removed since...)

you really want Aronis dead today? Only concern is how much info that lynch gives, but...

Also, Muffin - his responses to Selkies and co. haven't been particularly impressive, but then again what SEEMS town is he is being so guarded and is drawing attention to himself by digging himself into holes (by being so stubborn)....bad logic by me, but still...

[Bert]

At the end of the day, I'll probably sheep Cabd and roll with it. I like the way FourTrouble is using his/her instincts to pin Ross.

So to me, <Ross> ideally would be my priority Gut-lynch, haha. others I don't feel strongly about

[Bert]

Yes, really. I always have reservation about lynching lynchbait on D1.

[Bert]

Fine.

Vote: Aronis

Because I think notscience and Cabd are pretty town. Off to class.

[Bert]

makes yourself the center of attention, also draws out scum and dummies if you are town

/bad statement from Bert - ok really gotta run now though

[Bert]

You know how well this works with me.

I would hope it would work well this time!

[Bert]

He *could* be fooling me, but it's a townvibe based on his reckless abandon and tunnel tendencies/aggression (I have had many past games with him before).

[Bert]

Yes, he is without a doubt competent enough to do that.

[Bert]

It's a reference to a newbie game that Myself, Bert, and ffery were in.

Nice catch. I didn't get the reference from the past.

Bert, what are your thoughts on idiotking?

When I came in, I saw the SSK vs. Idiotking as TvT, but that read is stale now because he/she has done nothing much but make posts (not in spades) almost exclusively to continue a 1v1 with SSK and do nothing much else.

I felt that neither player was going too negative or ad hom in their interactions, and I liked that about it. Didn't remind me of a Metaphe vs. Micc from the past (reference you won't get).

[Bert]

Links for Fourtrouble if he/she is curious <3

Spoiler:

(1 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32007

1 v 1 (T vs. S)

ad hom/negative war: completed Newbie 1438 Micc vs. Metaphe Day 1
I could link past ad hom wars (including those of mine in 1482 past Castle) that get ugly, but I won’t because that isn’t relevant here.

(2)

Notscience

scum game (the only somewhat recent completed one I know of aside from two lurkfestivals in Open 534 (completed) and Micro 254 (completed). I’m out of date about notscience past games and scum, though… -

Mini Normal Cash Cabd (completed):

Scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=31155

Town: (past Newbie 1419):
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30676
Sorry bout the bad organization of links.

[Bert]

To be honest, I had you as null. And I still don't know what to think of you, but I figured I might as well move my vote, since

voting notscience wasn't going to help a thing

.

Did you remove the vote because you didn't want to continue arguing with him since he thinks you're scum, so that then there's less conflict with him?

Did you figure out why you were suspicious of notscience in the first place when you voted him? Your vote was on notscience for a grand total of ~ 12 hours...

[Bert]

Interesting. I was wondering if you'd make something up, or give some sort of reason afterwards for having voted notscience. But nothing....

Do you have any questions that you want to ask Notscience?

Also, where did you get the idea that "it's not like any of you are going to change your opinion unless I die?" This post seems nervous.

[Bert]

Spoiler: Inthread mason chat for bert's eyes only

What do you think of inviting Fourtrouble to the townbloc

Whatever floats your boat <3

Have a townread on him/her, but who knows I may be underestimating him/her

Also, KABOOM KABOOM COME BACK - you seem like you're doing a reprisal of my Open 534 (past game) coasting/prod dodging scum sequence. Starting to really worry me.

[Bert]

Updated, concrete thoughts about the game.

[Bert]

Got distracted by IRL today and got a weird weekend coming up, so nothing useful to say other than to

warn you guys that I tend to, in my past completed games, self-hammer/vote when put at lynch -1 [freak-out, irrationally think lynch is inevitable in a tunnel-ful fashion, etc., etc.] THEREFORE, please consider any potential lynch -2 votes, should they come (knock on wood), in essence a lynch -1 vote.

SSK's reaction ultimately was not to react. Poo. At least some town points for that, though, because

scum would likely have been more active in their defense, rather than literally saying they won't respond.

Uhh.....

[Bert]

I have decided that I need to give out a warning in my future games as well, as early as possible. Therefore, town is informed beforehand of my potential to self-hammer - this warning must then negate that. It is for the best of both worlds.

[Bert]

Or, you could understand that I'm trying to prevent that via those statements/warnings/disclaimers to treat a lynch -2 vote as a lynch -1 vote - as self-hammer happens every once in a while and I'm not proud of it - and you could actually try to be considerate/understanding instead of calling me a 'spineless little weasel.'

[Bert]

Thanks for listening with empathy.

[Bert]

I would lynch Aronis on

policy

, Bert for actively calling attention to past bad play as a ploy to woo town into thinking he's town, or Katsuki for

just generally being awful

. SSK would wait until I saw an Aronis flip, due to a major part of the case against him being the silly Aronis defense.

Awful/policy =/= scum

[Bert]

he's playing exactly how a

dumb

inexperienced newbie would.

Fixed that for you

Overall, your style is obsolete - which is thoroughly backed up seeing how your only few games in the past 2-ish years seem to have maybe 1 or 2 where you didn't replace out/play inactively - which may be why you are commenting on the conversational style in the contemporary game with such disdain and contempt.

Cabd, it reminds me of Mathcam/halfpint being scummy in 1438 as older players coming back to the game. Fact is, what you are saying about SSK and Cabd aren't really scumtells at all for them.

Calling Katsuki "actively playing against win condition" is overdoing it, as is all the stuff about Aronis being a dumb VI and worthy of a policy lynch when he's a total newbie. Maybe you can condense your posts, or actually link to the posts you're referring to instead of just providing numbers to each posts. Would make your wall easier to follow...

[Bert]

Not necessarily, but I am not above lynching anti-town players regardless of alignment. It forces the town to actually play to win, and keeps scum from having an excuse to be lazy and not post. Like or dislike my reasoning, at least I'm talking, and substantively. You can't really say the same for some of our players (such as kabooooom or Katsuki). The alternative is letting Katsuki-scum coast until D3 before being useful, and that would be fucking retarded.

Since you don't like clogging up the game, here is a spoiler just for you - but anyone can read it!

Spoiler:

We can agree to disagree. Some games in the past I've been in have had 6-7 people or more that you would consider VI/anti-town/playing against WinCon, if we were to use what you used in your first reads list. So it's hard to lynch them all and hope to have a good win rate... There are all kinds of players and playstyles.

I probably won't mention that self-hammer whatever thing in my potential games unless I'm seriously approaching Lynch -1 and quite near it (realistically). Yesterday I made a conscious decision to choose to disclose early in the game having never done this in past games, but having given this a try, I will change my temper my approach/timing for future games.

As for this game, I sense that I'm going to be alive for a long time whether you like it or not, as most people here (including all replacements thus far) know me quite well. We will learn to get along! <3 My only bitchy gripe is that I wish the reads paragraphs were spread out so each post and its description/read could be followed more easily. Really an on-factor.

Concerning posts and stuff, that'll come naturally soon-ish

[Bert]

Also, do you have any thoughts on my read on

you

, bert? Seems odd that you would defend Aronis and Katsuki, but not yourself.

OK. Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Bert

Replaced in in #299. First vote was on Fourtrouble in #313, saying that he didn't buy FourTrouble's explanation for switching to Muffin from Katsuki (because of Muffin's defense of Katsuki because of the Rule 6 thing, Muffin was here and Katsuki wasn't). Questions the Muffin wagon in #314, basically saying Muffin hasn't been present enough to warrant a wagon. In #327 he proclaims null reads across the board except pro-town Muffin (and maybe scum FT), and null-scum on Aronis because of weird Muffin vote/unvote. In #358, says FT asking for everybody's thoughts on Ross (before giving his own) didn't feel "sincere". There were also a few comments here and there about Ross and Goodfather appearing townie, but says Ross might just be his "2007 playstyle". Also scattered around a lot is discussion about VisCon 1523 or something, where apparently Bert did badly. In #431 votes Ross because Ross's comment about "I think we'll find scum" felt cautious. Also says that 90% of his reads are gut, and demands that we don't ask him about them. In #440 he goes ahead and lists his reads anyway. Sigh. Only scumreads are Ross and FT, so at least there are no contradictions, and his explanation for those reads also meshes with what he stated earlier. In #474, he says that what he doesn't find convincing about the Muffin wagon is FT's argument that it was scummy for Muffin to say Katsuki was too scummy to be scum because of Katsuki's argument about Rule 6 being unfair to scum (also of note, writing this sentence has given me a nosebleed). All the while he is saying why he gets FT's reasons for doing pretty much everything, including FT's Aronis and Kenny townreads. There was some back and forth here, but I can't follow it. Next vote was on Katsuki in #504, with reasoning (I'm guessing) being Katsuki saying Selkies is scum because it's in their role PM. Disses Ross's argument about Katsuki not being scum because scum would not check out on D1 (#525). In #680, says the Aronis and Katsuki wagons are easy to latch onto. I don't know what this means; does that mean they are easy wagons, and thus we should vote for them? Or that they are easy wagons, and thus scum would vote for them? In #689, says he has a 50/50 read on Katsuki and Aronis both, but saying they are both conventionally scummy, while switching his vote to Selkies. In #690 he upgrades the 50/50 to gut-town reads on both. In #699 he goes ahead and switches to Aronis (a townread) because he proclaims a town read on Cabd and Notscience (the two people who were pushing him for an Aronis lynch). In #750, after he has ONE vote on himself, he warns the town that he will self-hammer at L-1. I would lynch just for this.

Bert has made basically constant references to past games, acting as though he's been laughably scummy, saying he's been regularly policy lynched, and most recently saying that he's prone to self-voting at L-1. This all stinks of appeal to emotion to me, because "woe is me, I get picked on so much because I am bad". It happens often enough (at least once every 10 of his 80-some odd posts) that it seems calculated. There's just no reason for him to hammer down his VI history so much if he were a townie. Mentioning it once, maybe twice, sure, if you're the self-loathing type, but over and over and over again? It looks intentional. The alternative is that Bert is really just that defensive, but he's doing it with 0 or 1 vote on him. NOBODY should be that kneejerk defensive. Overall this is scummy to me because it's putting too much effort into not getting lynched compared to trying to actually scumhunt. As for the gut reads, I don't like them, because it's easy for scum to fake them if the site as a whole says they're OK, but since it's just a playstyle thing I will let them pass. The Ross and FT votes at least had some reasoning behind them, and they were consistent, but the Aronis vote is pathetic, and seems sheep-y. Sure, Aronis is an easy policy lynch, but JUST after professing a town read? AND after saying that we wouldn't get any info from the lynch? That just smells of opportunism. Also, the circumstances behind his Aronis vote make me wonder about a Bert/Cabd/Notscience connection, though at this point I am unsure of other evidence; will watch for further developments.

As a side note Bert, you need to talk less and with more substance. You are way, way too chatty, and it's clogging up the damn thread. It's nearly impossible to tell which of your posts are worth looking at and which aren't. Condense, at least.

Leaning Scum

Basically, this is a summary/analysis of my every move. What I would like you to see through my shoes is that I look up to some of the players in this game and believe in their reads (if town) more than I would ever trust my own gut-weak reads. I don't have to understand why they are voting someone - as long as I think they're a strong townread, I can sheep them as they KNOW how to scumhunt competitively - the goal is to WIN. Sheeping strong townreads, while swingy as you pointed out and an easy way to coast, CAN be a tactic for weaker players. As for me playing the "victim card," you'd be hardpressed to find anyone say I'm stronger than any other given experienced player in this 13-player game.

Next, appeal to emotion comes through in the posts I write. The chattiness - I think you're not chatty enough - shows how different-styled games we are used to being around.

Lastly, the "referencing past games" part. That is how I got my title underneath my name "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra." I remember feelings that people gave me in past games, and going through this game brings me back to who I remember giving me these similar vibes. It is a way in which I operate.

As for the self-hammer thing, I was planning to post a similar blurb in ALL of my future games, at the start. This idea just dawned upon me like a day or two ago. You don't know my past and how often I'm lynched - humor is a way to relieve the negativity of having been lynched so much. It's almost like a joke to me, and if I don't see the humor, I'll be all down and stuff. That's not the way to go for me...

""nobody" should be that defensive" is something you said about my reaction - the thing is, this wasn't because of Muffin's vote. I was planning, again, to do it in ALL of my future games. Now, I have reconsidered and will definitely modify and use as needed OR with caution.

If you're looking for good reasoning OR non-gut reads OR voting patterns that make lots of sense, then you will always read me as scum. My votes were all either sheeps of players I townread and believe in, OR I believe to be quite strong players and likely town. You've probably never been in this position (in a sort of hierarchy/level), but imagine being a newbie and not knowing what you're doing. Sheeping might seem appealing if you don't feel like you're going in the right direction.

I appreciate your constructive criticism of the self-hammer bit (trust me, I have heard that many times, maybe just not as harsh), and the condensing thing a million times, but again I'm not really worried about getting lynched in this game because of the players. I believe.

Belief is key.

[Bert]

I can't help you with a Nacho read. I haven't tried reading him with any type of confidence in a while. I think since I'm making a full effort (or as full as you'll ever see), that I'll probably give it a go and find him to be townie regardless of his alignment. But we will see.

As for Idiotking's reads list, I feel the way he goes about painting scumtells around players as fairly suspicious. I think it's because he/she has this "A is a scumtell always, B should always be lynched because of C (universal scumtell)." Flexibility is what I want to see in Idiotking's motivation behind the postings. Too many "Nobody is this so-and-so. This is absolutely anti-town." In a way, we have a step up because of prior experience with some players here. There's a divide between non-meta and meta players, and it's showing here. "But he/she gets points for continuing to reply to me and explain his viewpoints about policy lynching and stuff, even though I'm against that. I'd like to see him/her engage more players other than SSK, and branch out a bit, for me to feel more comfortable about him/her.

If you want an example of someone like Idiotking, maybe Miss Stranger from Mini 1460.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5108749

You'll see how scumtells and towntells seem to balance out for Idiotking. More scumtells than towntells = a scum read for him/her.

What's questionable is his/her reads list is almost exclusively based on an ISO, and not so much his/her own interactions with others in the broader picture. It seems like he/she is compensating for the chattiness from being fed enormous amounts of posts.

More interaction with players other than me and SSK would be good and assuring. The reads list is transparent, but rather hard to follow along with. I'd be interested to hear more about what he/she thinks regarding emotion and tone, stuff that delves deeper than logic.

[Bert]

Spoiler: Inthread Mason Talk for Bert's eyes only

Going to need your help on Nacho read, he keeps slipping past me as scum. What do you think of IdiotKing's reads list?

Answer: IK is kinda gut-scum to me, but logically speaking definitely null. Needs more observation, and I would like to be a few days removed from arguing with IK to be able to put out a rational read on him/her.

[Bert]

Emotion and tone is part of the game. You're telling me to condense, etc., and be less chatty. But that's my playstyle. Both styles can exist together. I'm not telling you to change, but I was wondering if you had anything other than logical tells to go for.

Well, you said you put next-to-no value in gut scumreads, but I do put value in it. That's why I put it in the spoiler in my chat with ns and didn't tell you it.

[Bert]

@IdiotKing: Yes, it does. Thank you.

[Bert]

Now, Muffin's keeping on the down-low early on makes more sense.

[Bert]

Spoiler: In Thread Mason Chat for Bert's eyes only

Gun to your head, based on Nacho''s entrance, town or scum? I think one of the 3 neighbors is scum, Aronis/IK in that order.

I need nacho to read Cabd for me

I still feel like Katsuki is really town, this doesn't look like the Katsuki from Anything goes.

Current Townbloc prospects:
Katsuki
Four Trouble
Nacho

What do you think of SSK's disappearance?

Answer: everything Nacho has done is pretty null. Need to see more. This is one of those times where since he showed up so late, I feel like letting him into D2 is fine for now. Gut-wise strictly speaking, his entry looked town...observation will continue

Katsuki - gut-town. that style is as close to mine as you'll see - spammy, chatty, and little reasoning - it's like a super-version of Bert I guess? Logically, could be scum or town easily - playstyle of that kind is too transferable between alignments. Sincerity and transparency will be looked for later on probably.

SSK's disappearance - relatively strong start, then fizzling out mighty quickly...if Nacho sees this, reminds me of Syryana-Stacking the Deck 501 past game? Maybe scum, gut-wise.

Of those three people you listed, FourTrouble is the most natural sounding to me and quite town, but Katsuki could probably understand you and me's style much better and mesh very well. Go with whatever you like, and I'll support. Nacho is Nacho and is useful if town-Nacho. <3

Natirasha is just the kind of moderator (like FG VisCon 1523/1489 past) who will throw curveballs - Muffin remembers VisCon 1523 when the neighborhood was totally town while scum had silent access to the QT...

[Bert]

Spoiler: for ns

@ns: I don't know, the lack of interaction between Nacho and others - especially when placing a vote on the leading wagon with nothing else said is kinda off, now that I think about it more. I also find it interesting that he does not comment on Cabd, but then announces Selkies as town without hesitation. This reminds me a lot of Micro 189 (past) where he made a late appearance after lurking and did something like this - says a few people are town, with little reasoning, then places a vote on someone who is being wagoned heavily. He either was pressed for time or is just trying to rush the lynch through and not have to work to show his cards early? Blind speculation by me. Logically, though, null.

I'm also starting to think IK town for that snarky post where he sheep-votes Aronis (lol don't laugh)...he/she finally let go and showed some pep in his/her step <3. IK's past interactions with SSK and (to a lesser extent) me were so....stoic and w/ restraint...

[Bert]

Spoiler: My WIFOM

Normal setups are probably somewhat boring to Nat, so I was thinking the same thing about the neighborhood. Something to spice it up and bring some suspense/setup spec.

I also think this setup was [probably] approved before FG's VisCon 1523 game's conclusion which included all-town neighbors and the scum's silent access to said QT. Nat was also killed rather late in VisCon 1523, in January...

The only game I know of that Nat took part in designing is the Pick & Ban game, and I recall FG helping to balance the setup because FG found out the setup could be broken by massclaim. So them two definitely have worked together in the past for completed games.

[Bert]

Vote: RossWilliam

[Bert]

probably town; I don't think you could come up with a joke that good as scum.
Killing people brings your heart down, you know?

Pirates don't have hearts, sorry. They can't feel grief or guilt.

#Yolo

[Bert]

Muffin's a pirate, as is our mod.

[Bert]

Muffin's a pirate, as is our mod.

Your mother is a pirate.

Don't out her! You're violating the pirate bro code.

[Bert]

Ffery, your avatar reminds me of one of ArcAngel's old ones!

Spoiler: to Nacho

I'm a loose cannon bro

There's no bro code between me and your mother.
I'm not a bro.

You're a frat bro, a loose cannon bro, and a bro.

#truefacts

I wasn't here today, but I did think some about this game. I got this weird feeling when I was riding my bike that Katsuki was scum-coasting with his/her style and nailing Nacho - see how Nacho defended Katsuki. Weird daydreams are weird.... Anyway, this is from the same Bert whom has been unwilling to cave when asked to keep a vote on Katsuki.

[Bert]

kabooooom still appears on the VC as someone with zero votes. You're not here, Nacho. This is a bad dream - go back to bed

[Bert]

Yeah, looks like Aronis is the only realistic option at this point....it feels like mostly a junk lynch...hope it pays dividends...

[Bert]

Hi guys.

We have two interesting wagons. It is notable that IdiotKing's and Nacho's don't appear to think Aronis is scum. Interesting.

Vote: Aronis

Was this a serious vote? Why.

[Bert]

To say the least, I'm tired of arguing with you people. Every post I make only condemns me further and I really don't care to discuss it anymore, besides it's not like any of you are going to change your opinion unless I die.

That's a far cry from this post which you made mid-Day 1. Your last post reminds me a bit of a newbie named phok in Newbie 1419, with the "I will prove myself as town" which he said while at Lynch -1...

To tell the truth, I have no real idea of what to say.

but the "I don't know what else to say" seems kinda natural for someone like you to say.

To tell the truth, I have no real idea of what to say. I'm a Town Neighbor for what it's worth. If any of you have questions, I can answer them. I'm willing to cooperate and explain my actions and do whatever necessary to prove myself as town.

As I mentioned having said in the neighbor QT, I suspect an Aronis-Bert scumteam due to mutual unexplained town reads and bert's hilariously awful Aronis vote (looking like a half-assed bus). It's not pure policy: an Aronis flip would aid my read on bert. So don't spin it as purely random, bert.

Do you want me to just hammer to aid your read on me?

Also, @Ffery: please help build a case on Ross if you really want a lynch on him/her...unless the vote is purely a posture for the end-of-day VC.

[Bert]

I didn't when I first went through this game in the early days, but as the deadline started to wind down...part of me wanted to vote SSK for inching away from and delaying a reply to IdiotKing during their TvT's. It's like IdiotKing got too close, and SSK kinda withdrew...

Either way, I kinda expect to see vintage SSK-lurk for the rest of this game...in an AA kinda way (past game), not the VisCon 1523 (past game) super-scummy SSK. Idk.

SSK, what do you think of the case on Aronis?

[Bert]

I could see a <Goodfather, SSK, Ross> pool. I don't really feel like Goodfather has been scumhunting - his last posts have said a lot but haven't added much. I thought the initial case he had on Selkies' postcount being less as scum - I thought that case was misguided town.

Speaking of opportunistic votes (as an opportunistic voter myself), Ross's Vote and then Unvote of Aronis both came at awkward times and with little explanation (the vote) or "I'm scared of a derphammer" comments (the unvote).

Unvote: Aronis

IdiotKing, were you aware you just put him at -1 without mentioning it? Are you hoping he'll just "accidently" end up lynched?

I can get behind this little Aronis wagon

VOTE: Aronis

[Bert]

Bert, I liked zmuffin's comment that Aronis would be getting heavy coaching if he were the scum in a neighborhood. We can't see the neighborhood convo, though, so it's putting a lot of faith in muffin's powers of observation. I think his powers of observation are decent. If he's scum, keeping the other neighbors alive as long as possible is good for his own longevity. I don't have a scumread of zmuffin, though. Feeling kinda town about him.

I don't have a scumread on muffin either. His case on Selkies looked legit and it seemed like in the big wallpost he was challenging you with that case/maneuver...challenging you to step it up.

Only thing that was a little odd was him doing a weird 'hey Nacho I'm so town' thing when Nacho was coming in to do an initial read. Almost reads as scum appeasement (which is hypocritical for me to bring up, being a buddying extraordinaire). He did something similar late in the VisCon 1523 past game with an "I'm obvtown unless you're crazy" manifesto. I remember Elyse calling him 'outright delusional' for the manifesto. This one wasn't as filled with delusions of grandeur.

As for his vote on me, I think he has been seeing a period where my play went from just 'bad/VI' to 'ridiculously bad.' This game is back to normal 'bad/VI,' and he probably sees that as scummy without other reference points aside from Viscon 1523 (past game completed) to draw from. So the vote on me doesn't say much for his alignment.

[Bert]

EBWOP: Basically my play went from 'bad/VI' to ridiculously bad (an evolution that happened all within 1523 VisCon), and he probably thinks the difference in my play there and my play here means this is my scumgame. Well, that's what I get when trying to see his mindset. He said his case on me was 'only gut,' which is weird though...

[Bert]

But see though, it's entirely possible he DID get coaching, and they told him to shut up.

It's very possible. If he suddenly started stepping up his play and making a lot more sense, he'd probably get lynched on suspicion of having received coaching...

I noticed the difference in tone between his "I'm tired of talking and being perceived as scummy for everything" to now "I don't know what to say, but I'm willing to prove that I'm town."

Cute.

Aww...thank ye! You are too, except you're holding a gun in your picture. Are you Bruce Willis?

[Bert]

Cabd do you think Ffery is town?

[Bert]

Ross has the opportunity to hammer Aronis, so day ends soon probably...

I know that feeling.

Lol.

[Bert]

Oh, sorry. That's not what I meant.

What do you think about Muffin and IdiotKing in your neighborhood QT?

[Bert]

RossWilliam,
I'd go town, I don't agree with his reads, but he seems to be trying to help the Town.

Why is your vote on Ross if you think Ross is town?

[Bert]

So bert is under the assumption that I am just policy lynching Aronis while not thinking he is scum, while Aronis thinks I'm convinced he's scum without a doubt.

Am I really that confusing?

Well, I looked and realized I somehow (oops) didn't taken into account your latest post, and was going by:

Spoiler:

For no better reason than other people are doing it, and sheeping is apparently not scummy anymore.

Aronis has been scummy to the point of being goofy, but his scumtells are all explainable by the fact that he's brand spanking new (joined Jan. 19th), and he's playing exactly how a dumb newbie would. Unexplained vote switching, OMGUS votes, voting for people he specifically did NOT have a scumread on, etc. are all behaviors of a total newbie. Aronis is at best a VI, and I would be totally ok with a policy lynch on him, because heaven help us if we go into LYLO with him still in tow. However, I cannot honestly say he's any scummier than any other newbie (though this is because I have an incredibly difficult time reading newbies).

Null/VI

but as it sits (before I determine those reads), I would lynch Aronis on policy

Instead of your few-hours-old post:

Spoiler:

As I mentioned having said in the neighbor QT, I suspect an Aronis-Bert scumteam due to mutual unexplained town reads and bert's hilariously awful Aronis vote (looking like a half-assed bus). It's not pure policy: an Aronis flip would aid my read on bert. So don't spin it as purely random, bert.

[Bert]

That said, what if there is no neighborhood and those three are the scum team? it's a genious way to save Aronis from all the attention he was getting. I'm not entirely serious about this, just what if?

I would be okay with a ross lynch for this line alone

Spoiler: ns/bert

maybe you can move it there

[Bert]

Spoiler: ns/bert

Yup, and Ffery's transcendent meta-dive on him/her.

[Bert]

I wouldn't mind an Aronis - RossWilliam cross vote

[Bert]

It does give me pause that both of them are reading each other as town.

[Bert]

FYI: It's Lynch -2 on both of them with 9 hours-ish remaining.

Instinctively, Ross's 990 and voting notscience, etc., etc., reminds me of Cabd voting JKLM in past 1438 Newbie while being the D1 shoo-in lynch.

[Bert]

I was feeling good about the Ross lynch, and then I read his last few replies....

[Bert]

BUT, the meta difference that Selkies provided is enough to have me confident with my vote where it is

[Bert]

If I have time, I'll delve a little deeper. The main thing is what FourTrouble picked up, that at least early on, he didn't engage his scum suspects in this game, which is different from the 2011 town games. Also, not voting early in this game is different from those two games.

[Bert]

Aronis, you should vote Ross <3

Sorry for the spam guys. Heading out now, thank god.

[Bert]

Flash wagon?

[Bert]

SSK or nacho?

[Bert]

SSK or Goodfather, ideally for me. What do you think of Goodfather?

[Bert]

Or he's being cautious cos Ffery/Cabd meta, so is brute forcing his way to D2.

[Bert]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking with Nacho. Is useful as a chip for Day 2 if town, and he takes a D1 respite sometimes (From my past completed games experience)...

Then who do you want to lynch???? You think Aronis is town, right?

[Bert]

I got a lot of townvibes from SSK, but it got real stale. I had Goodfather as town early on, but that read went poof too.

I fear I'm overlooking notscience and can't see clearly. Idk, I had Goodfather, Ross, SSK as scumreads coming into the last few days prior to deadline. Goodfather's last few posts made me think long and hard, cos it was so....townie sounding, the real thing...ugh

[Bert]

Anyways, just pick one and roll with it. It's now or never, otherwise won't get enough people online in time. Getting nervous jitters cos deadline soon.

[Bert]

Yes, ArcAngel is a great comparison, except maybe a bit more level-headed in reactions. I fear for his/her [Katsuki's] scumgame because he/she I suspect receives a pass easily based on playstyle transference.

I don't have confidence reading people like Nacho who can fool me easily, but Aronis seems pretty town for a newer player to me.

Is there anyone you are reading as scum?

[Bert]

Goodfather fits the profile of lurker-scum pretty well IMO. I don't know, I see like very few if any dissent/doubts about players that I would expect from town, especially after the game got going.

[Bert]

What does this mean?

My scum reads have fallen apart. I want to get together with Orcinus if possible to see what he thinks, but I think it's going to come down to my vote decision today. How long are you going to be around? I want to review some stuff and see what I can sift from the null section of my pile.

I meant I don't see him weighing tells and evaluating/assessing reads - expressing doubts about people - the way I'd expect him as town to do. It's almost an instinctive thing, so that's the only way I described it. I'm looking for clear signals that he has seen things that push him to make him to want to place his/her vote on someone for a specific reason. I don't see any of that, and I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense...

I'm going to be around today around the clock - mobile technology does that for me lol - it's the other 5 votes that you'll need to speed up ahead of time if you want any chance at a non-Aronis/Ross lynch. I obviously don't want either lynched at this point, but it doesn't feel like I have any choice.

But I will remind you FIVE THIRTY FOUR.

I don't want to hammer notsci. I think he's town.

I don't want to hammer notsci. I think he's town.

I don't want to hammer notsci. I think he's town.

<3

[Bert]

Day 1 ends in a NO-LYNCH

Sound of Silence – Vanilla Townie

has been killed.

[Bert]

His/her start has been less than stunning, but his/her responses to being attacked look legit like gut-reactions.

No, I don't see him/her doing that stuff. However, he/she seems clueless. So it's the newb card that saves him/her. I don't see a scum agenda. However, if I have to vote, I'll vote Aronis over Goodfather because I think it's likelier that Aronis is fooling us and having us underestimate him/her big time. At least Aronis hasn't seemed to be making up stuff when attacking other people - although the hesitance to confront Notscience and explain his/her vote felt off. Felt like damage control to "shut up and not explain the ns vote"

[Bert]

I am trying to blend in. I'm just not used to this style of Mafia and don't want to get lynched d1. I'm just trying to watch what happens for awhile, see others strategies, etc. Then make my moves.

This felt town when I took it at face-value. I don't see the scum motivation behind a comment like this. Also, below are instances of frustration.

To tell the truth, I have no real idea of what to say. I'm a Town Neighbor for what it's worth. If any of you have questions, I can answer them. I'm willing to cooperate and explain my actions and do whatever necessary to prove myself as town.

This is like he doesn't want a fight and wants to back off from confrontation or 1vs.1. Brings me mixed feelings in trying to figure out why this post is here.

VOTE: Selkies

Joking is not an obvious scumtell, but it's not townie either. I didn't really see you making a valid attempt to get the game out of RVS, I would credit that to idiotking. While you did make a ton of content early on, I found most of it to be useless and more junk then anything.

Doesn't seem worried that this vote might be blasted.

Out of the people I'm developing reads on, Aronis and FourTrouble, for what I just said. Aronis for monkeying a confident player, and FourTrouble for waiting for other people to give him the reason for his vote.

I can't ever do anything right, can I?

.........

To say the least, I'm tired of arguing with you people. Every post I make only condemns me further and I really don't care to discuss it anymore, besides it's not like any of you are going to change your opinion unless I die.

Almost a 'I've got nothing to lose mentality.' I don't think this is alignment-indicative.

Here, in this last quote, it's up to you to decide whether you think this is just "scum shutting down" or "town acting like Bert." What's odd here is that he/she doesn't lash out or blow up - you can tell there's inner frustration there.

My thoughts are jumbled up right now... but anyways his/her posts don't look like they're being made to 'sound town,' so that goes in his/her favor. Lots of this is just instinct and intuitive/bad thoughts, so don't mind me LOL

I've been extremely reluctant to vote him/her because I feel part of why he/she is being lynched is based at least in some part on his/her worth as town, instead of likelihood of flipping scum.

[Bert]

See, this read seems to have been pretty consistent throughout the day, but then why did you vote for Aronis in 699?

Lack of confidence in my own reads, and for the sake of

Spoiler: read at your own peril

sheeping

my strongest townread Cabd.

[Bert]

Bert, why should I vote Ross?

Because at that point you and Ross were the only viable wagons that were close to lynch. Now, I'm not sure if any wagon will get through on time.

Who do you think you

should

vote?

[Bert]

Spoiler: ns/bert

What do you think of Ross's vote?

When Notscience came in, I became scum on everyone's list. Bert is only following outspoken people. Katsuki's giving reasoning that doesn't make sense, I never mentioned his alignment.

He's scumreading you for "being outspoken and making other people read him as scum too"? Beats me...what do you think of it? I feel like he's kinda feeling the pressure and isn't looking at the developments that lately shaped the read on him. He's dismissing the votes/case by using Katsuki as an example of "doesn't make sense,' which is odd.

-Bert

[Bert]

Spoiler: Bert/notscience

Why haven't you named a scumteam or been tunnely yet this game or shown some wicked confidence...you're holding back - something's wrong

[Bert]

I didn't create any masonry.

[Bert]

Plus, notscience doesn't see you as a strong townread

[Bert]

The point of the DP is to find scum and lynch them, I said" I want to lynch someone before time runs out". I just don't fancy leaving things to a die roll.

How are the Ross and Aronis wagons dice roles?

Adding 1 vote to a 1-vote wagon doesn't look very survivalistic to me.

The only way I can see any sort of scum sense given the vote mechanic is if Ross and Aronis are scum together.

Am I missing something?

Maybe they want us to talk ourselves into a deadline induced NL?

[Bert]

My scum reads have fallen apart.

I want to get together with Orcinus if possible to see what he thinks, but I think it's going to come down to my vote decision today. How long are you going to be around? I want to review some stuff and see what I can sift from the null section of my pile.

While we're on the Ffery topic, this sounds so invented... "my reads fell apart" Another one of those lovely statements you can make to try to sound town.

It sounds almost like in 1436 (past game) where you were like "I've gone over things a million times in my head, and I've flopped back and forth for N number of times."

[Bert]

I had Aronis and Ross both as scum. That's up in the air right now. This game has my full attention while I work through that.

Umm...ffery you know you never made it clear you ever were reading Aronis-scum...

You asked Cabd for his reasoning, and you mentioned how you wanted to look into Aronis more because you think Cabd's town. Aronis seemed more like a potential option to look into, but nothing more than that - were you being purposely ambiguous????.... This makes me wonder if you're really thinking this game through from a townie mindset.

Hesitancy you're showing is one thing I can understand, but tacking on an "in case it isn't clear, we're reading Aronis (!) and Ross" as scum. Basically, both options aka both main wagons.

That said, I actually will post a reads list sometime today.

I'd still like for you to talk about your Aronis read

If Cabd's town, and I think he probably is, I want to put some weight on his Aronis read. But, I wish he'd put more reasoning down. I'm also looking at Ross and maybe Goodfather. But, my Goodfather issue is mostly because his vote has been really sticky in the face of most of his concerns about us getting dog-eared.

[Bert]

Unvote

Vote: Selkies

Not presenting your reads in clear sight...AH I guess I'm not surprised and I shouldn't be.

Anyways, I do give you some kudos for saying how a REAL interactive game with Ross TRUMPS the past meta. At the very least, I expect some "strength of my townreads" thing from you before the end of the day. We're not expecting you to catch EVERYONE by the end of the day...

You basically are claiming you have Aronis as scum but have stayed off that wagon.... I don't know, that bothers me and I can't emphasize it enough - at some point, thoughts about Aronis HAVE to come forth from you, is that unreasonable???

What town players have you found in this game??

[Bert]

Maybe I underestimated the influence that other people's reads have on you. I was expecting you to filter it some more and process your own reads at the same time.

I asked myself if you've been convincing about your "scumread" wagons. The answer was no...I mean, I felt you were locked in during Open 534 replacement period (past game). You gave a reads list within THREE hours of replacing in - with TOWN, SCUM, NULL, etc.

what you didn't do here was have your actions (voting a scumread) follow what you apparently felt about others. You didn't explore Goodfather further despite empty promises, you asked for reasoning on the Aronis read but didn't show concentration/focus on Aronis.

I also feel your only two 'past scumreads' are the only people who had a reasonable chance of being lynched in the fairly recent past. Until we probed you last-minute, you would probably have gone into Night 1 without us having a sort of sense of direction from you. I can't remember many past completed games where this happened with you-town (not Newbie 1429, not Open 534). Might have happened in AA, but you and Nat were leaders there and a huge presence - heck, you LED the Brian Wagon D1. That was no bravado. I don't feel you have used your meta or persuasion powers to your advantage in this game.

/rant over, and no I don't expect you to be lynched today, but that vote is a wake-up call and I'm gonna lead out a vote on you D2 if things don't change real soon.

Bert

[Bert]

you didn't seriously just sign your post

Nope, my name isn't Bert.

Vote: RossWilliams

That's lynch -2.

[Bert]

Vote: Aronis

Notscience, let's get back on Aronis? Having last-minute thoughts, especially after Ffery's "I was scum-reading Aronis before, but not so much anymore"

[Bert]

Goodfather's last few posts made me think long and hard, cos it was so....townie sounding, the real thing...ugh

I misspoke here and meant Ross lol - Goodfather hasn't been here lately.

His/her start has been less than stunning, but his/her responses to being attacked look legit like gut-reactions.

No, I don't see him/her doing that stuff. However, he/she seems clueless. So it's the newb card that saves him/her. I don't see a scum agenda.

However, if I have to vote, I'll vote Aronis over Goodfather because I think it's likelier that Aronis is fooling us and having us underestimate him/her big time.

At least Aronis hasn't seemed to be making up stuff when attacking other people - although the hesitance to confront Notscience and explain his/her vote felt off. Felt like damage control to "shut up and not explain the ns vote"

Substitute Goodfather with Ross, although in this post I actually meant Goodfather when I said his name..

[Bert]

No, I'm not. 6 hours is enough to make the time go by.

I'm sure someone will be here at deadline (I know I will) to switch over to whichever wagon as needed.

[Bert]

I'm banking on notscience, Selkies, and (to a lesser extent) Ross

they're generally very active (the first two, not Ross)

[Bert]

if it comes down to it, i'll prob cull aronis over ross

And, maybe muffin.

[Bert]

OK...

but if you lynch me, please remember who tunneled into to certain aspects about me and genuinely think I'm scum, and who saw other people making mistakes and took advantage of it, I guarantee you there's scum on my wagon.

Vote: RossWilliams

he soft-claimed VT in that post IMO, but anyways......

not sure he will be here for last words, for the people worried about the deadline or summat

Lynch -1

[Bert]

^says the person who said (see below) - lol spare me <3

I won't be happy about changing my vote if it turns out I need to.

[Bert]

I really, really hate you, Bert.

I love you too! Let your soul gravitate to the love, baby

[Bert]

Be happy that you got your lynch, lady ffery

[Bert]

Wow notscience you have a big zit!

[Bert]

You just set it up perfectly, Congrats! This is exactly why you would kill FourTrouble, nobody expects it, it doesn't make any damn since for you to, so by default you must be town.

In 1436, Ffery made a kill on goodmorning, a claimed VT, because it was an odd kill, and a kill on Cabd or someone else might implicate her in some other way. (1436 is a past newbie game).

So don't buy into her WIFOM about NKs if that is helping to change your read.

Vote: Selkies

[Bert]

*groan*

dude that doesn't even make sense. green is just a colour dude

[Bert]

OBVIOUSLY I know that all factions have day-talk, we're IN one. Frankly I figure yesterday your scum-mates (assuming you are scum) would have written you off for dead, whereas overnight they could have tried prepping you for a strong start today, since you dodged a bullet.

Either that, or "furthering his/her win condition by stepping up his/her play." This is a no-win proposition - keep being scummy and lazy, or step up and be called out for coaching. Yiley 1429-esque (for past meta-referencers)

then i guess i have a horrible disease

probably benevolent

Okay yeah, in lieu of anything else I'm more than willing to PL katsuki if he doesn't step it the fuck up.

What do you expect from Katsuki?

[Bert]

Spoiler:

Maybe I underestimated the influence that other people's reads have on you. I was expecting you to filter it some more and process your own reads at the same time.

I asked myself if you've been convincing about your "scumread" wagons. The answer was no...I mean, I felt you were locked in during Open 534 replacement period (past game). You gave a reads list within THREE hours of replacing in - with TOWN, SCUM, NULL, etc.

what you didn't do here was have your actions (voting a scumread) follow what you apparently felt about others. You didn't explore Goodfather further despite empty promises, you asked for reasoning on the Aronis read but didn't show concentration/focus on Aronis.

I also feel your only two 'past scumreads' are the only people who had a reasonable chance of being lynched in the fairly recent past. Until we probed you last-minute, you would probably have gone into Night 1 without us having a sort of sense of direction from you. I can't remember many past completed games where this happened with you-town (not Newbie 1429, not Open 534). Might have happened in AA, but you and Nat were leaders there and a huge presence - heck, you LED the Brian Wagon D1. That was no bravado. I don't feel you have used your meta or persuasion powers to your advantage in this game.

/rant over, and no I don't expect you to be lynched today, but that vote is a wake-up call and I'm gonna lead out a vote on you D2 if things don't change real soon.

Bert

Unvote

Vote: Selkies

Not presenting your reads in clear sight...AH I guess I'm not surprised and I shouldn't be.

Anyways, I do give you some kudos for saying how a REAL interactive game with Ross TRUMPS the past meta. At the very least, I expect some "strength of my townreads" thing from you before the end of the day. We're not expecting you to catch EVERYONE by the end of the day...

You basically are claiming you have Aronis as scum but have stayed off that wagon.... I don't know, that bothers me and I can't emphasize it enough - at some point, thoughts about Aronis HAVE to come forth from you, is that unreasonable???

What town players have you found in this game??

I had Aronis and Ross both as scum. That's up in the air right now. This game has my full attention while I work through that.

Umm...ffery you know you never made it clear you ever were reading Aronis-scum...

You asked Cabd for his reasoning, and you mentioned how you wanted to look into Aronis more because you think Cabd's town. Aronis seemed more like a potential option to look into, but nothing more than that - were you being purposely ambiguous????.... This makes me wonder if you're really thinking this game through from a townie mindset.

Hesitancy you're showing is one thing I can understand, but tacking on an "in case it isn't clear, we're reading Aronis (!) and Ross" as scum. Basically, both options aka both main wagons.

That said, I actually will post a reads list sometime today.

I'd still like for you to talk about your Aronis read

If Cabd's town, and I think he probably is, I want to put some weight on his Aronis read. But, I wish he'd put more reasoning down. I'm also looking at Ross and maybe Goodfather. But, my Goodfather issue is mostly because his vote has been really sticky in the face of most of his concerns about us getting dog-eared.

My scum reads have fallen apart.

I want to get together with Orcinus if possible to see what he thinks, but I think it's going to come down to my vote decision today. How long are you going to be around? I want to review some stuff and see what I can sift from the null section of my pile.

While we're on the Ffery topic, this sounds so invented... "my reads fell apart" Another one of those lovely statements you can make to try to sound town.

It sounds almost like in 1436 (past game) where you were like "I've gone over things a million times in my head, and I've flopped back and forth for N number of times."

[Bert]

not town enough, did you read my spoiler. why is selkies town

[Bert]

yes they were quotes of me

am i not special enough as a ding dong ding bat?

dont wall on me ever again <3

[Bert]

Selkies town.

Selkies town.

Selkies town.

Selkies town.

[Bert]

oh whoops i was probably buddying up to them???

so your stuff coming into the game when engaging all of us was just a scenario where you buddied everyone you called town? so which of your reads has been genuine, if it's a non-zero number.

you stumblin, tumblin

[Bert]

goodfather lynch op though

is your plan to keep most of your reads hidden for now? so undetailed

I'm gonna use that against you broski

[Bert]

ou mean the wifom where I cited the very game you've brought up here as one example of the sorts of kills I favor as scum?

you're using NKA as a reason that you're town, right? it's not a tell

If you read through the first game that Cabd linked and find the Night 1 kill announcement you'll find a kill that matches the third criteria - my partner and I killed a player who claimed vanilla town at the end of day 1.

this supports what rationale of yours?

[Bert]

you expect charisma to carry you but I ain't buying it, plus saying you never read Ffery as town is DISHONEST

you bein so puzzlin

where is your emotionsss, no strong points in ur cases whats up with you

[Bert]

you usually make sense tho

[Bert]

I'm not going to "prove" I'm town.

->

So I'm going to be ridiculously transparent this game. But I don't know how to obvtown, so you'll have to bear with me and deal with the body of work.

[Bert]

There are so many people I want to lynch right now. . .

names?

[Bert]

Nacho, what do you think of the neighborhood?

[Bert]

Katsuki, why do you say you were "happy with calling 75% of the game scum" yesterday

[Bert]

Why do you have Cabd as a "lolzy third" scum read? What does that mean

I would quote it but I'm on mobile.

[Bert]

You're sheeping me.

who cares who's sheeping who, is this a sheeping game

Wouldn't mind getting rid of nacho either, but they're doing better.

Huh, how has Nacho been doing better? Because he is playing a style with one-liners that suits your/our chatty conversational style?

omg thinking about lynching nacho makes me hungry

tired. reading after sleep

omg scumlurker

[Bert]

GF
IK
You (but it's kinda close)
Maybe Selkies

Why GF and why IK? Don't tell me "because Nacho or Ffery said so" for GF. Lately, I don't recall you ever mentioning anything you don't like about IK either. =/

Anyways, Goodfather hasn't done anything remotely useful-looking lately, and the vote on Katsuki (and then going back to lurking) is not looking promising. And SSK has disappeared - shocker!

[Bert]

Vote: notscience

sneaky and coasting, Bert is extremely disappointed in your play!

[Bert]

do you have something to say?

[Bert]

Good!

IK and Muffin I can sorta understand cos they are in a neighborhood - hopefully they are doing their thing up in there

[Bert]

Goodfather's a solid wagon, although I want to see him say something in response to the wagons. It's hard to pinpoint any of his posts as townie-looking or scumhunting.

Ffery has been extremely meh this game, which is not a good sign.

Katsuki feels like the person scum came into today wanting to mislynch - hence the rampant "OMG Katsuki is scum" comments coming out at the start of today - a darn easy mislynch too. The way Goodfather joined that wagon looked bad and unreal.

The point is most of GF's posts have been centered around "oh, this is what I understand about neighborhoods,' or "Ffery doesn't post enough in this game, therefore is scum," or "Katsuki is scum because he/she isn't scumhunting." That's what the bulk of his posts come down to, and that's not really enough for me in terms of contribution.

Vote: The Goodfather

There, I talked myself into doing something other than being lazy, and moving my vote

[Bert]

???

???

[Bert]

Goodfather do you have anything else to add <3

[Bert]

11. Aronis** - scum (most likely scum in the neighborhood). He has changed his votes almost 10 times, altogether voting for 6 or 7 different people, with little to no reasoning each time. seems to just hop on whatever wagon is convenient

12. Idiotking* - like his playstyle, and i think he is the most likely town in the neighborhood

13. Katsuki* - scum - seems to be trying to skate by without doing anything. Maybe his meta, but if this is his town game, he is not an asset to our game at all

Changing votes frequently for no apparent raeson and "coasting and not being an asset" does not equal scum, nor does "scummiest playstyle."

I had hoped that my last post (1297) would speak for itself.

Why do you think your reads list should speak for itself?

[Bert]

but then the game where the scummiest playstyle peoples draw town, you'll find yourself close to losing the game rather quickly if you just lynch down that list and don't look past that. logical players draw scum too

p-edit: scummiest playstyle as in people like katsuki or aronis or kabooooom (who got replaced), (or ppl like me). I have my reasons for not liking SSK's play so far based on past experience, but SSK's style is also very naturally scummy. Nacho's play since entering this game has been uncharacteristically illogical and scummy compared to how he is capable of playing.

So you read all those people as scum or null-scum. So I think your scumreads are all easy targets and/or playstyle-based.

No one has claimed intent to hammer, and when you come back you are at lynch -2 and say "I don't feel compelled to claim especially because it's not a real wagon." The danger wasn't there. Your cases so far in this game have been based on Selkies' quantity of posting, Katsuki's perceived scumminess, and other playstyle-oriented stuff.

I want to hear your thoughts about how Day 1 went down, if you are caught up. And what you think of how wagons played out since you last caught up.

[Bert]

great nacho, way to distance from Selkies, first u ignore the wagon while it's going, then when it's down to 2 people, you plop a vote on for no particular reason - especially after questioning why my read on them isn't town in the first place and then adding absolutely nada

wow

[Bert]

Oh yeah and FTis town.

Nice to see you back, btw.

Meanwhile, this is why a FT (WIFOM here) kill makes perfect sense. They knew each other in past games, obv. That, or a newb team that doesn't consider Nacho an early threat.

[Bert]

Selkies town.

Spoiler: In Thread Mason Chat for Bert's eyes only

Gun to your head, based on Nacho''s entrance, town or scum? I think one of the 3 neighbors is scum, Aronis/IK in that order.

I need nacho to read Cabd for me

I still feel like Katsuki is really town, this doesn't look like the Katsuki from Anything goes.

Current Townbloc prospects:
Katsuki
Four Trouble
Nacho

What do you think of SSK's disappearance?

Nacho

Why the townread on Selkies?

Gut probably.
Or ffery
Or orcinus???

Vote: The Goodfather

Bert, no.

when I vote Selkies, he goes 'Bert, no'

bert why voting selkies?

every read was genuine berty

Then, he responds with "every read was genuine' after I pointed out that he had townread Selkies

[Bert]

Nacho's real name is Clyde Champion Barrow

HAHAHAHA

[Bert]

oh shoot I thought Bonnie & Clyde was a cartoon and looked up the wrong name

well then scratch that you can be sylvester stallone

[Bert]

your mom thought fish n nachos was a popular dish in the United States, so she ate fish and dreamed of having nachos come out with fish. then her wish became reality and you were born from eating twin lobsters

[Bert]

Nacho after birth

Spoiler:

Nacho in 2014

Spoiler:

[Bert]

you kinda remind me of myself in Mini 1462, where I was a complete VI on Day 1, got the benefit of the doubt, and then became super serious D2 and started making sense.

you could explain to us why you are suddenly stepping up your play

[Bert]

yo selkies thoughts on nacho's vote on u pl0x

[Bert]

I miss the days when I was easy to read.

I don't think I'm really harder to read, though.

You don't say...

[Bert]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=37613

Aronis scum game just ended

Meta time guys

Interesting