Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

OK so I'm here, have not read the thread, I am KAZURUIRMIRU.

Unvote

I suspect I will revote, but want to at least try to skim the thread first.

Highlights appreciated.

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Can someone summarize the claims that happened and somesuch?

Like it sounds like AD jailkept Kaze last night or something hence our being lords of town (though I don't really know why that follows with two scumteams but w/e I'll take it), but if there is more I should know before reading 128 pages it would be handy.

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Oh.

Well I obviously didn't read the flips very carefully.

And that explains it.

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I would not vote for me fyi.

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I have never in my life regretted a mastin lynch (n = 2).

I should probably read first though gawd.

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It's kind of hard to feel motivated to read everything when I'm just going to die tonight.

Maybe I should seem useless so that they'll kill someone else?

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Well, it's more like I'm a weak IC.

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I thought Skull was scummy for the reasoning behind calling Mastin town, but skimming the parts of Mastin's iso about MafiaSSK I actually agree with her.

I can buy the ActionDan night-action /outguess.

Pidgey is apparently perceived town due to the people he replaced.

Correct so far?

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Why is sangres town?

I would like to lynch Venmar, I think, but sangres seems to be in a town hut that I do not understand.

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Oh, same logic as AD. OK.

Venmar looks really scummy in the stuff directed at you IMO.

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Did the town watcher claim that D2?

If yes, why are AD/sangres still alive (e.g., was there always a confTown person or claimed PR to kill)?

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Are you not town reading Mollie because she's the only one scumreading you?

It was just an observation Muffin, you called everyone town except for her, I found that interesting in the least.

If Mastin is someone you think is town, I can easily settle for a Skull lynch.

The second post frames the first one as if it had no subtext, but it obviously had subtext. So he's lying.

Also, ending with wanting to make friends with you is totally bizarre in the case where he isn't lying.

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I'm going to sheep AP on piratemollie and call her town.

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Sangres, have you always thought that pidgey/predecessors were not that town, or is this getting to PoE territory for you?

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Also, are there any players who think Venmar is town?

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Why on earth would you think that.

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I have basically only read today and skimmed a few isos ad hoc (e.g., AFB's iso for mollie reads).

Nothing he has posted really stuck out to me until his exchange with you.

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It was just an observation Muffin, you called everyone town except for her, I found that interesting in the least.

If Mastin is someone you think is town, I can easily settle for a Skull lynch.

See, to me, this is the definition of manipulative.

1. The first paragraph frames your response as unnatural and hyperbolic while framing his previous question as being "just an observation" without the subtext that he would be asking it because he thought you were scummy.

2. The second paragraph is like "I think you are so town and thoughtful so I will settle for a lynch on this person who thinks I am scum."

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I find it a little bit strange that you would not see it that way tbf. It is egregious.

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OK

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I think I've played with Venmar before, but I don't remember the game, really. I think he was scum and got lynched early?

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Well, that makes me more OK with voting pidgey.

Now I have to actually read his posts ugh.

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Was Flandre Scarlet already the obvlynch when Gooner replaced in?

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Voting for me is not a good vote

I'm kinda leaning right now towards a vote on either muffin or Venmar.

"I'd kind of like to vote a player that might get lynched."

Skull i liked your case because it actually makes sense. Mastin's case is just mastin being mastin. I think you brought good points regarding venmar so yah.

"I liked your good logic."

My big concern while thinking of this game is that if there's for some reason 2 remaining scum then we are in for a shit surprise later on. I dont think thats likely to happen so ill operate as if there was one remaining.

lol

Today we have a labor day in Mexico so im free to read the game, which is what ill try to do especially regarding isoing the flipped scum

woohoo

"I probably won't play this game much fyi."

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Well, that's how I read it and why it made me OK with voting for you. Before, you were mentally off-limits due to people saying your predecessors were 100% town, and I was confused by someone (sangres?) voting you.

Then I looked at your predecessors and some iso ctrl+f Brian/Gooner and inferred that people thought Brian was kinda townie and people probably thought Gooner was town mainly for voting FS upon replace-in, with some read decay over time. So I wanted to evaluate the FS thing.

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Mollie is ridiculously paranoid and ad-hom-prone as town. It's really absurd. It makes more sense after you meet her in real life.

I trust AP's ability to read her.

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Sangres, have you always thought that pidgey/predecessors were not that town, or is this getting to PoE territory for you?

We had Brian as town. We had Gooner as town, but the read was going a little paranoid around the time pidgey replaced in.

Oh, I just noticed that you were a hydra.

So you kind of follow AP's read trajectory, then.

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It could be that the lack of my whole game context led me to read it differently/inappropriately.

The word "interesting" serious throws me because it just begs the reader to infer what you mean by "interesting."

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Was the extra N2 kill ever explained? I see mastin-SK spec in isos, but no extra NKs other than that one.

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Sangres, have you always thought that pidgey/predecessors were not that town, or is this getting to PoE territory for you?

We had Brian as town. We had Gooner as town, but the read was going a little paranoid around the time pidgey replaced in.

Oh, I just noticed that you were a hydra.

So you kind of follow AP's read trajectory, then

.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here?

AP meaning AFB. In AP's iso he has the same initial Gooner-town, then more uncertain as it goes on.

Also yeah SK was Aegor looks like nvm.

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I don't think people have actually listed a reason for voting you, really...?

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AP regularly complains to me irl about people misreading mollie as scum when she's so obvtown and such, so I trust him to read her.

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Sangres kinda did, ice

Kinda in the non-rhetorical sense, I guess.

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i didn't miss the bolded; you are literally saying you think i'm playing to my town game and playing opposite how i play as scum, and because of this i must be scum shaking things up!

There is no reason for her to say that you match your town meta in this game as scum trying to lynch you AFAICT.

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Who replaced Cephrir? I don't see him in the OP other than among the dead.

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Uh. So who used to be person #6?

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Vote: pidgey

After narrowing it down to my non-townreads, I like the wagonmates here best.

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I think I would lynch Venmar before mollie.

Mostly because it's all AP's fault if mollie is scum.

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I'll vote mollie to avoid NL, but that is probably all.

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Also, if you think I'm Scum, then that means you think there are two Scum players left. Who is my partner?

Remind me why this follows?

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You could be a strongman or something, but I agree that that's enough to not lynch you.

Who here has played with Skull before? Is the wallposting and kind of tense tone par for the course? (I'm assuming so given the above.)

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bork says i'm not allowed to ask kaze about whether he requested jailings.

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Avoiding NL

Vote: piratemollie

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Oh, I misread that.

Unvote; Vote: Venmar

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Shitty lynched are shitty

Please do not fail to post for a day phase while being thought confirmed town and then post things like this thanks.

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Iecerint:

Dan's right about the hypocrisy. Your posting this game has been lackluster. Bluntly, if there were two scum, you'd be my number one pick for a lynch simply because your slot has never been town and you've used the excuse of being conftown to not give any serious effort to this game. So stop slacking off. I KNOW you are capable of full-blown analysis, even in a game of this length. Give it.

1. Dan never actually said anything about hypocrisy?

2. I dunno what's up with this silly CAPS LOCK since you've played with me once in your life, I think? And you were lynched D1 or something? And it was like 2009?

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Positing that Dan/sangres/Iec are all town, scum could have killed any of us fairly interchangeably AFAICT.

Given that, sangres death implicates pidgey. It tends to look good for muffin.

Of course, the fact that ActionDan did not post at all despite being all "omg i was such a venmar prophet" after the fact and that I am relying on cliffnotes of the threads is also sufficient to justify neither of us being the kill target, so.

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Iecerint:

Dan's right about the hypocrisy. Your posting this game has been lackluster. Bluntly, if there were two scum, you'd be my number one pick for a lynch simply because your slot has never been town and you've used the excuse of being conftown to not give any serious effort to this game. So stop slacking off. I KNOW you are capable of full-blown analysis, even in a game of this length. Give it.

1. Dan never actually said anything about hypocrisy?

2. I dunno what's up with this silly CAPS LOCK since you've played with me once in your life, I think? And you were lynched D1 or something? And it was like 2009?

Also, I'm not the one who entered the thread with the totally obnoxious "omg guys i never posted but i was so right on venmar" or anything analogous, so it's not clear how you could agree with whatever hypocrisy you dreamed he was accusing me of.

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Positing that Dan/sangres/Iec are all town, scum could have killed any of us fairly interchangeably AFAICT

not really. you're only technically confirmed if there's one scum left, and AD was only semi-confirmed prior to mason flip (theoretically, i could have seen reason for AD-scum to give an invention to sangres N1 for towncred as scum)

also, i probably would have defaulted to killing sangres if i were scum given both you and AD weren't doing much

1. "Posit" means what follows is only going to hold if whatever is in the "posit" clause is true.

I had thought that AD was purely "town" for being in the target cluster with scum D1; didn't know he had claimed something specific.

2. The part that you deleted from my quote is literally the exact same content as your "also" clause.

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also pretty sure mastin took AD's "heh" response (3589) as calling you a hypocrite

If that is the case, then mastin does not know what it means to be a hypocrite.

Which is not out of the question, but it is kind of flirting with the borders of it.

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2. The part that you deleted from my quote is literally the exact same content as your "also" clause.

Also it is frustrating to be like oh mastin is getting lazy and not showing critical reading while pretending to do it how interesting when non-mastins do the very same thing on the following page.

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If Muffin seriously doesn't understand why it is scummy to selectively quote to make it seem like the poster is willfully ignoring important aspects of the situation, he should probably play a different game.

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Are you saying that you don't understand why it is scummy to quote people out of context to imply that they didn't say things that they did?

Or are you saying that you do not understand why town should not be scummy?

Are just kind of embarrassed for skimming my post and being called out about it?

Or are you just scum?

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It's interesting that you read my post, thought it was "empty speculation," and then regurgitated the exact same content while pretending that it was your original invention.

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Vote: Muffin

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Please don't make me spend any more days with this person. Especially not lylo.

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I probably would have wanted to lynch either mollie or mastin today if you hadn't decided to be a dick.

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But I've already indicated multiple times that I'm sheeping AP on mollie. Maybe you should read my useless posts more?

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Let's please kill him before we have to kill him in lylo.

Maybe it will affect how he plays games in the future.

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I am not going to spend 24 hours of my life reading 130 pages. I've done it before; it's not happening in this game.

It is not my job to explain the game to you. It is your job to explain the game to me, to the extent that you think I do not have all the necessary pieces of the puzzle. This is doubly obvious when the objective probability of my being town-aligned is extremely high, and triply so when my relative ignorance about the content in the game makes me more likely to survive slightly longer.

Antagonizing me as you are doing does not make sense to me as a tactic regardless of your alignment.

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Though selective misreading/misquoting of my posts and discrediting does lead a certain way.

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isn't it going to be hilarious when mollie flips scum and we see just how bad you actually are at mafia?

Why would that be hilarious?

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What has mollie lied about?

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You're the one framing posts as if they implied things other than they implied. That's the objectionable thing. The possibility that you simply didn't read the post is my tortured attempt to imagine a town player doing what you did.

There are plenty of posts in this game I've only skimmed, mostly if they were too long or used poor punctuation, etc.

I don't read most of mastin or mollie's posts, for example, outside of the topic sentences, unless I have a reason to (e.g., someone coherent said something about one of them, so I go back and review).

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The main thing I remember about yesterday as far as mollie is concerned is that she lurked through it a lot.

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I am incapable of reading anything you have posted this day phase from an objective perspective.

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Also, since I know personally that you think it is OK to very flagrantly misquote me, I approach any quote-stripe thing you post about mollie with EXTREME skepticism.

This is why you probably shouldn't flagrantly misquote people.

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3628 does look kind of legitimate, though. The idea is that mollie said she had strong feelings about flipped scum, but she did not post strong feelings about flipped scum. See how I summarized that in 1 sentence?

My main skepticism is that I am inclined at this point to suspect that you are misrepresenting mollie's history on the subject in some way, mainly because of what I posted about previously.

Why didn't this point come up way earlier than now (e.g., D2)?

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3495 looks like bullshit, though.

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Maybe that's why I only skimmed it.

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also i can't _really_ make a case for mollie not having strong reads / stances off a single day phase when activity and/or other things could have played a factor, so why would i bring it up earlier?

Then why are you bringing it up now...?

I don't think degree of consistency is a scumtell for mollie at all btw. That is not who she is. I would be inclined to find consistency scummy for her if anything. I find it kind of scummy that it looks like that is your main argument in 3495. (Do you dispute that this is your main argument in 3495?)

3628 is different only because it's consistency about flipped scum.

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EBWOP: That's why. But my immediate cognitive response was just "this is bullshit" and I didn't realize why I found it so ridiculous until I reflected on it after the fact.

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Well, ridiculous is a strong word.

"Not relevant to helping me identify things about players in the game probably" is what I mean.

May also explain why it didn't make a strong impression on me to the extent that I read it.

I also found it amusing that you defended sheeping sangres in that post (which is more like what the word hypocrite ACTUALLY means). ^^~

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If there is something that someone has done that is easily explained-away by something like activity level, I do not personally dwell on it because it is not very useful information.

It looks like you are dwelling on information that you simultaneously think (???) is easily explained-away by something like activity level. I do not understand that. I am asking about it because I want to understand it better.

If I do what you are doing, it is usually because I have identified the lynch target first and found reasons to lynch them second. This is usually because I am scum. I do not do it as town (unless I'm town and really know that that person is scum via night). But some people do do it as town (e.g., because they don't actually care about the evidence and just want to lynch the person they've scumread, or because they don't understand confirmation bias).

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Like, I expected your answer to the original question to be something like "well, I didn't notice the interaction with flipped scum until later on when I was wondering about mollie after she lurked a lot" instead of "well, activity could maybe account for what I noticed, so I didn't really make a big thing about it."

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OK. I guess I find the specific misrepresentation of history with flipped scum relatively problematic, so I put extra weight onto that detail in my head.

If you antagonized her ahead of time, I doubt she would think very critically about what you told her, even as town. I think mollie will basically attack anyone who attacks her in a very paranoid fashion if she is town. My impression is based on a small number of mafia games on the site and also meeting her in person. She also likes to identify a single suspect and really attack them repeatedly, often because they attacked her, and the previously-discussed paranoia phenomenon becomes a positive feedback loop for her.

I do think that the general claim that she has not really had any dramatic moments in the game is probably a scumtell for her, though, maybe (cf., not taking strong stances, because townMollie stances usually create drama). I haven't actually played with mollie-Scum on the site that I can think of, but this would probably fit with meatworld mollie a little bit.

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If you did not antagonize her and she ignored facts despite that, then I both understand why you would find that scummy and think it might be valid.

If you did antagonize her and make her defensive, then the act of her ignoring the substance of what you were saying is not an additional scumtell for her (though the actual facts presented might still be valid).

In your summary post, you go so far as to say that she is so bad at the game that you are inferring her to be scum as a relative indication of respect, you only blame her and have no remorse if she flips town, etc., so I am pretty sure that antagonism happened at some point, though I'm not sure about the chronology. You know it better than I do. Depending upon the chronology, this may be new information about mollie that might be relevant to how you should infer her alignment.

Mollie remembering a better version of her previous posts upon spontaneously being challenged about them is probably more town than scum from her IMO. The only caveat here is that she remembered the better version specifically re: interactions with flipped scum. Instead of being townMollie, that is something I could maybe see mollie doing either way (but still relevant information if it fits a bigger pattern that is most consistent with scumMollie).

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well, i mean, i antagonised her after she brought up stuff that was blatantly untrue, but that was because she was insisting it was true when i'd shown it wasn't

but before that? no. up until D5 she was calling me town, and then i said i don't think she's town D5 and she suddenly changed her tune and decided i'm scum for ignoring her and sheeping sangres. now, i hadn't been ignoring her up until that point and my initial response to this was literally me saying "wat" - and she replied to this saying i shouldn't play dumb because i'd been ignoring her all game or something

This sounds like town Mollie to me, just going purely from your description. She got defensive about her posting record and attacked you when you called her scum.

i mean you can just read the start of D4 and see how it played out if you want?

OK.

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Could you summarize the deleted QT post fiasco? Or did bork ban discussion during his intervention?

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So it seems like maybe someone deleted a post in one of the neighbor threads, and we don't know who.

Have any scum flipped from that particular neighbor thread? Because, ye know. The easy inference is that scum used the wrong QT.

Though the Town Neighbor Mason business could also account for that.

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Muffin, you were the one who felt strongly about Venmar town yesterday, correct?

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Also, are there any players who think Venmar is town?

me

Yeah, this is the exchange I was thinking of.

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I don't really see a reason for you to read Venmar that way as scum (e.g., going out of your way to describe the context of something he said that I said I found scummy, etc).

Unvote

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SSK fakeclaimed a guilty on Skull?

Was SSK under pressure prior to that coming out (such that it looked like he would be lynched either way)?

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also pretty sure mastin took AD's "heh" response (3589) as calling you a hypocrite

Basically, yeah. For chastising Dan for lack of leading, you've sure lacked it yourself, Iece.

I did not chastise Dan for not reading the game. That is not something that has occurred.

My criticism was that yesterday (and today -- hooray for being a prophet) Dan has made no serious effort to offer a perspective, support one wagon, indicate a wagon that is less good, etc., but then he started today by complaining about the Venmar lynch. It has nothing to do with reading the game. "Be the change you wish to see in the world," etc.

I suspect Dan is either a PR or someone who wants to be perceived as having a PR. But being coy about having a PR is kind of dumb when N1 mechanics already made you pretty town and a likely NK target. So I think the main real effect of his behavior if he's town is that it may lead him to get lynched very unnecessarily late game based on the reasoning that he lurked to let his failure to be NK'd be explained away.

It may come out that he just needs a small number of extra night phases to maximize his utility or whatever, which could justify his behavior. That's fine, but it's going to really make my eyebrow twitch if it happens to come together in the form of a 1/1 in lylo.

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My current thoughts are that we lynch mollie for muffin or else lynch mastin for basically indicating that she is pretty much OK with lynching anyone (I guess?).

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scumMuffin would probably be happy with me providing rhetoric that could lead people to suspect Venmar, even if it's just me. Muffin instead discredited the reasons for my suspicion of Venmar. I think scumMuffin would probably like to undermine as many non-confirmed players as possible, especially with several living players being soft-confirmed. This is even more true because Venmar had enough suspicion elsewhere that adding me to the pile could make that wagon proceed to lynchpoint.

The summary of why you think it is unlikely for you to be scum with SSK is that him claiming no result on you means you can't fakeclaim most PRs. Accurate gloss?

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The summary of why you think it is unlikely for you to be scum with SSK is that him claiming no result on you means you can't fakeclaim most PRs. Accurate gloss?

Not really. For starters, I don't think it's unlikely that SSK and I are partners; I

know

that that isn't the case.

If my explanation has too many ~words~, the main idea of what I'm trying to convey is that there was no benefit to SSK claiming that result on a partner. If I was Scum and SSK was my partner, all he would have done was hinder me while doing nothing to improve his own chances. It's an unnecessary gamble with no reward.

This isn't a "gotcha" with the wording or whatever. I am just making sure I did not miss anything substantive about what you said.

I'm pretty sure I did summarize the mechanism of him hindering you that you stipulated, so I guess it's basically accurate.

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Let's all compromise and lynch mastin.

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Why do you think mastin is town?

Is it just that you think there is 1 scum and it is muffin?

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Basic rundown of thoughts:

Mollie:

Plus side, tone and overall feel seems like town-mollie. Down-side, stances seem like scum and her absence in critical areas is concerning.

zMuff:

Plus side, arguments sound town. Down-side, doesn't look town. If that makes sense. (No, it doesn't. I need to get back to this.)

Skull:

Plus side, SSK investigation and looks like arguments come from town. Down side, SSK investigation and could be scum.

pidgey:

Plus side, all occupiers of the slot look highly highly town. Down side, they haven't really done much to keep townness, essentially.

Iece:

Plus side, JK result. Downside, lack of positive content throughout game.

Here is what he had to say. Sounds town, but doesn't look town!

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EBWOP: she*

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You did, but your most recent post also said you wanted to see what mastin had to say about muffin, so I was facilitating. ^^~

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Also can I just say that I love your notes post so much.

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Maybe? Skull intimated that it was obvious for some reason, but I figured it was obvious due to information I don't have facility with.

Tbh I assumed Skull was implying that he himself was the mason and I didn't feel it prudent to request clarification.

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Okay, ActionDan, one more question for you. Do you know for certain that Mollie received an invention from AFB or was 3155 just speculation? The answer to this question will be helpful in determining Mollie's alignment.

This isn't a "gotcha" with the wording or whatever. I am just making sure I did not miss anything substantive about what you said.

I'm pretty sure I did summarize the mechanism of him hindering you that you stipulated, so I guess it's basically accurate.

I suppose from another Townie's perspective, it could still be possible for SSK and I to be partners, but it would require you to assume that SSK was clumsy enough to make such a colossally short-sighted decision and the Scum team completely failed to plan ahead for when SSK would inevitably have to reveal his Track targets. Possible, sure, but so unlikely that it isn't even worth serious consideration.

What do you mean by "would eventually have to reveal"? As I understand it, SSK claimed to have tracked you going nowhere N2 (after giving accurate tracking information about someone N1).

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I'm not arguing that anything doesn't make sense or does make sense; I'm just making sure I understand the words you are using.

Since SSK did reveal his targets, what do you mean by "would eventually have to reveal"?

I am confused because it seems like he DID in fact reveal his targets.

The reason I am asking for clarification is that I do not understand what you mean and I want to understand what you mean.

FWIW I think it is likely that he claimed a real result on you, especially if Cabd claimed to have seem SSK subsequent to SSK claiming his targets.

(Why didn't SSK get a pass, anyway? A confirmed-ish tracker would normally get a comfy pass.)

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Unless Cabd was lying about his Night 1 results for whatever reason, we know that Pieguy protected Sangres on the same night that ActionDan and SSK performed an action on Sangres. Pieguy was one-shot Bulletproof, which means that one of those two tried to kill Sangres on Night 1.

It looks like this was the reason. I forgot that SSK didn't actually track sangres. ell, he may have, I guess, but the assumption that he DIDN'T is what makes ActionDan probTown rather than confScum. The only way it wouldn't make Dan confScum is if pie got killed twice N2. (Though SSK's track is pretty wasted on a target that's about to die, anyway; it's not impressive to claim tracks on dead players after the fact, especially the same night as their death.)

I guess there was just an inference in there somewhere that the game had a vig/SK/alternafaction as the missing piece of the logic puzzle.

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Ap has served his purpose. I can confirm in fact that both inventions have indeed landed. (Clearly I got the first d1). But who has the 2nd?. It is a mystery

Mollie how's the invention treating you? I expect a cop report in your next post

I didn't get an invention

???

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My reason to protect FS from the lynch has vanished mysteriously

?

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Activate Code: Beta Epsilon Delta Omicron

Alright for better or worse

##Vote Kagami

I have no idea what'll happen but I hope it's good despite the warnings.

@AP: er, I haven't read into him too much this game tbh. his alignment is undefined. for now.

???

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Skimming Dan's iso is pretty fun.

I am a little confused about how Dan wasn't required to claim in the Dan v SSK business, but I guess it was because SSK claimed first and then couldn't show where he had breadcrumbed his results and things.

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Well, sangres complained about no crumbs. w/e. at any rate, people were pretty comfy with lynching him.

The bodyguard speculation is the part of the puzzle I was missing.

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and then, of course, there's mollie's input on it which was basically stating the facts of the case and then... nothing

If valid, I think this is a good case for mollie scum.

But I will read for it tomorrow.

[Iecerint]

Ah, OK. So it would be that the global roleblock doesn't work on the SK's own kill, so the only action that worked N3 was that kill, so any N3 gifting didn't happen.

I'm surprised that trying to invention the Ascetic wouldn't already destroy the invention, but I guess AP would know. Whatever.

[Iecerint]

The ssk lynch should be read with the idea that all the scum knew he was getting lynched in their heart of hearts

Are you going to unpack this?

[Iecerint]

Gotcha -- I had thought that Cabd revealed both results at the same time on D3, but it sounds like that isn't what happened. That explains where I was missing what you were saying.

I understand the substance of what you are saying; I just thought I was missing something on that one point. I've found the missing thing now.

[Iecerint]

I had thought that Cabd revealed both results at the same time on D3, but it sounds like that isn't what happened.

Well, Cabd would have had a really difficult time revealing his results on Day 3 since he died on Night 2 and all.

Good point!

I guess I had been assuming that Cabd's claim was what led to SSK's lynch originally, rather than that it caused it only after an intervening lynch.

[Iecerint]

[10] Kagami (

Angry Frat Bros, Venmar

, mastin2,

Metal Sonic

,

Cephrir

,

Kazekirimaru, macmollie, pieguyn

,

Aegor

, ActionDan)

[Iecerint]

You can mentally un-color me green if another scum flips and the game doesn't end.

You can add green to ActionDan if you're feeling liberal.

[Iecerint]

Oh, I didn't realize that mollie was macmollie. Sorry. I just looked at the scum and colored everyone else green. ^^~

[Iecerint]

[10] Kagami (

Angry Frat Bros, Venmar

, mastin2,

Metal Sonic

,

Cephrir

,

Kazekirimaru

, macmollie,

pieguyn

,

Aegor

, ActionDan)

Fixed.

I think those are the two people I most want to lynch today, so it's fitting that mollie is also unflipped.

[Iecerint]

I see.

Well, I suppose we should lynch mollie, then. Skull is trying awfully hard.

[Iecerint]

I only played the first Xenosaga game, so I don't know enough about the flavor to hypothesize about an obvious missing faction.

[Iecerint]

I can say that the main (anti-)villain of the franchise (Wilhelm) hasn't flipped yet. But he's order-aligned.

Albedo is also a kind of major villain, although he's mainly a personal antagonist for Rubedo. I think he maybe gets a little bit of "Defeat Means Friendship" later in the series, though, or at least lots of "Alas, Poor Villain." But he hasn't flipped yet.

Dunno if someone has claimed either of them as their flavor-name.

[Iecerint]

Actually, looking at flavor again, Black/White Testaments and Wilhelm are alive. So with 3 Order-aligned flavor scum left, it's not obvious that 2 would remain or which 2, though it's easy to find 2. So not very informative.

Albedo (who later becomes the White Testament) and Wilhelm were just the ones that occurred to me. I didn't remember the Black one.

[Iecerint]

I'll be V/LA Wednesday through Friday.

I'll try to be on before I leave Wednesday to vote someone.

I think I prefer mastin or mollie, so I suspect it will be mollie.

[Iecerint]

Oh I thought deadline was closer than it is.

Vote: piratemollie

anyway

L-1

[Iecerint]

Albedo is chaos-aligned?