Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

Before he claims something resembling an innocent child

i'm a Nun

don't ask me to explain, i'm not going to atm

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Brian

i don't think brian is scum

[zMuffinMan]

your idea sucks

[zMuffinMan]

stupid like a fox

[zMuffinMan]

brian, why are you voting a townie?

only scum vote townies

[zMuffinMan]

yeah but i could be wrong

do you know something i don't!? because it looks like you're suggesting you know the alignment of the player i'm voting

[zMuffinMan]

have you sorted me yet?

i'm town, but don't tell anyone, let them figure it out themselves

[zMuffinMan]

i actually haven't read the thread yet, i just saw a wagon on you

did anything interesting happen yet

[zMuffinMan]

i actually think i know all the scum right now but i'm going to hold back and pretend i don't for a while

just to trick scum

so it looks like i'm not a threat

[zMuffinMan]

pieguy is actually scum

[zMuffinMan]

i'd unvote you, but you've put me in a tough position, brian

if i unvote now, i look like a wuss

so now we wait and see whether you get hammered or whether someone else wusses out

(also pieguy really is scum)

[zMuffinMan]

i don't wanna be known as that guy who chickened out of flashlynch on p5 (now p6)

[zMuffinMan]

why do you have nacho as town anyway

[zMuffinMan]

he didn't actually call any of your posts townish - it was a joke about how probability was on his side if he called you town, and you may have made a post that looked townish

[zMuffinMan]

i use the word "joke" loosely of course

a nacho joke

[zMuffinMan]

lol @ people thinking mastin is scum

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Pieguy

[zMuffinMan]

ffery

ask me why i know mastin is town

[zMuffinMan]

Zmuffin,

Why do you need to be asked?

And why do you know mastin is town?

i needed you specifically to ask for this to be funny

meta

[zMuffinMan]

Ok. Go on?

:/ if you don't know what to look for, then you don't know what to look for

where's nacho and what has he said?

[zMuffinMan]

when I finish running mastin into the ground you're next

heh

you really have no idea how to impersonate your town self

[zMuffinMan]

Could you be a little less cryptic?

i would if i could

if you can't tell the difference, then anything i say here isn't going to make sense to you, and i'm not even really sure i can describe it

there are differences in the way mastin approaches the game as scum/town and there are differences in the way he sounds as scum/town. it's not as simple as "arrogance" or "hesitance" or anything like that so i have trouble describing what the actual difference is. when nacho is around, ask him what he thinks. or i'll talk to him myself when he's around and posting.

[zMuffinMan]

Spoiler: tally

bottom of p9

[7] Brian Skies

(Kazekirimaru, pieguyn, Skullduggery, zMuffinMan, Metal Sonic, Brian Skies, orcinus_theoriginal)

[2] pieguyn

(MafiaSSK, mastin2)

[2] mastin2

(Angry Frat BROs, Cephrir)

[1] Metal Sonic

(Venmar)

[1] Skullduggery

(Aegor)

[1] Venmar

(sangres)

[6] Not Voting

(ActionDan, Cabd, macmollie, Kagami, Varsoon, Flandre Scarlet)

bottom of p10

[5] Brian Skies

(Kazekirimaru, zMuffinMan, Metal Sonic, Brian Skies, orcinus_theoriginal)

[4] mastin2

(Angry Frat BROs, Cephrir, pieguyn, Cabd)

[1] pieguyn

(mastin2)

[1] Metal Sonic

(Venmar)

[1] Skullduggery

(Aegor)

[1] Venmar

(sangres)

[1] Flandre Scarlet

(Skullduggery)

[6] Not Voting

(ActionDan, macmollie, Kagami, Varsoon, Flandre Scarlet, MafiaSSK)

bottom of p11

[5] mastin2

(Angry Frat BROs, Cephrir, pieguyn, Cabd, Kazekirimaru)

[3] Brian Skies

(Metal Sonic, Brian Skies, orcinus_theoriginal)

[2] pieguyn

(mastin2, zMuffinMan)

[1] Metal Sonic

(Venmar)

[1] Skullduggery

(Aegor)

[1] Venmar

(sangres)

[1] Flandre Scarlet

(Skullduggery)

[6] Not Voting

(ActionDan, macmollie, Kagami, Varsoon, Flandre Scarlet, MafiaSSK)

bottom of p12

[6] mastin2

(Angry Frat BROs, Cephrir, pieguyn, Cabd, Kazekirimaru, Metal Sonic)

[2] Brian Skies

(Brian Skies, orcinus_theoriginal)

[2] pieguyn

(mastin2, zMuffinMan)

[1] Metal Sonic

(Venmar)

[1] Skullduggery

(Aegor)

[1] Venmar

(sangres)

[1] Flandre Scarlet

(Skullduggery)

[6] Not Voting

(ActionDan, macmollie, Kagami, Varsoon, Flandre Scarlet, MafiaSSK)

bottom of p13 - CURRENT

[7] mastin2

(Angry Frat BROs, Cephrir, pieguyn, Cabd, Kazekirimaru, Metal Sonic, orcinus_theoriginal)

[2] pieguyn

(mastin2, zMuffinMan)

[1] Brian Skies

(Brian Skies)

[1] Metal Sonic

(Venmar)

[1] Skullduggery

(Aegor)

[1] Venmar

(sangres)

[1] Flandre Scarlet

(Skullduggery)

[6] Not Voting

(ActionDan, macmollie, Kagami, Varsoon, Flandre Scarlet, MafiaSSK)

for my own reference, in case an official votecount isn't coming any time soon

[zMuffinMan]

ffery,

do you think you can read pieguy? what do you think of his posts so far?

i think he's really shit at imitating his town game and he doesn't quite know what to say to me. all his responses to my suspicion of him have felt unnatural

[zMuffinMan]

oh no I'm really scared
not. this feels like you're resorting to scare tactics to get me off mastin

this post, for example, is not something i'd expect to see from town pieguy

the phrasing of it feels really off

when I finish running mastin into the ground you're next

and this feels like unnatural confidence; like he's feigning it

i don't believe he would be this confident about a read on me this early on, either. and even if he were confident about a read on me, he wouldn't be expressing it in this manner

[zMuffinMan]

also i agree with mastin's assessment of pieguy's posts so far. his early posts felt really forced

this was pretty spot on, too

Okay, pie. I'll be blunt. Normally, when you're town, I can generally get an air for it. Maybe not an absolute air, but a general air of it. What I'm seeing here has an utter lack of it. It feels weak. Half-hearted. Fake. As if you're playing a game of manipulation rather than analysis.

i think, in the post linked, the question to AFB was what felt the most unnatural about it. like, he knows that as town he questions people about other people, but that was like.... the second page. and there was no direction to the question, it was just a random question out of nowhere. i mean, the other parts of the post are no better, but yeah. it looks like he's trying to (very poorly) imitate his town game.

[zMuffinMan]

I am scum, look at my scum-post

nothing you said here looks town

i don't believe you actually think those are good reasons to think i'm scum, and i don't believe you'd be that confident about it

[zMuffinMan]

Speaking of off-notes, it's kinda odd how you've reached out to me about reads this game.

obviously i'm trying to confuse your meta read on me so you don't realise i'm scum

[zMuffinMan]

it wasn't actually a reach out to you. you're not commenting on mastin or pieguy in any meaningful way

[zMuffinMan]

pieguy still not town

[zMuffinMan]

Post #416 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm

Post #417 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm

you should have spaced this out by like at least 5 minutes, pie

rookie scum mistake

are you trolling muffina

i never troll

pieguy is scum

i could break it down and explain exactly why but not right now

do you have much experience playing with pieguy?

[zMuffinMan]

you know I make several posts at the same time all the time

i don't know that. could you show me one example of when you've done that before?

i've literally never seen you separate two responses like that, that big, that quickly. it looks like you were writing them, checking to make sure they looked town, and then posting them.

usually you just post it all in one go, or there's a time difference in your posts that indicates you were responding to one thing, then writing your next response to the next thing.

are you being for realz

yes. i am always serious. some people sometimes think i'm joking around, but that is just a misconception and everything i say is 100% serious.

pieguy is scum.

[zMuffinMan]

also the time gap is not why i think those posts are scummy, but it did reassure me i'm right here

[zMuffinMan]

also the time gap is not why i think those posts are scummy, but it did reassure me i'm right here

[zMuffinMan]

although thank you for linking those posts.

it makes it easy for people who aren't familiar with your playstyle to compare and contrast and see why your posts aren't town here

[zMuffinMan]

you usually don't put post links in quotes nor put the full username of the person you're quoting

this is not why I think you're scummy, but it did reassure me I'm right here

tell me how this complete pile of BS I just wrote is any different than what you're doing.

the difference is that i'm town and you're not

it's funny watching how you react

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin can be scum

your reads are awful

[zMuffinMan]

just for being this sure of anything before page 20

ignoring the cog dis in you thinking pieguy looks town, this is really lol

[zMuffinMan]

pieguy is presenting an argument

first, this is... like... a borderline fucking retarded answer. "you're sure pieguy is scum and it's too early to be sure of anything so you're scum, but pieguy being sure of you and mastin doesn't mean anything because he's presenting an argument!"

like, really? that's how you defend your stance here?

second, so what? do you think scum is more or less likely to try to blend in by making up reasons for their suspicion? and if you respond by saying something along the lines of "WIFOM", i'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game. your reads are awful

also, saying pieguy is presenting an "argument" is meh, especially when the basis for his "argument" is similar to the reasons mastin was wagoned in xenogears

[zMuffinMan]

that masonry didn't last long

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin can be scum just for being this sure of anything before page 20

i was thinking about this

have you never seen people be sure of a read before p20?

[zMuffinMan]

can you put the head on that knows how to play

ty

[zMuffinMan]

not yelling "X is town Y is scum nothing will change my mind about this"

also how much of my posts are you reading? because i have pretty clearly explained where the read on pieguy comes from here, here and here

just because i'm not breaking down every single post he makes and explaining why he's scum because of it, doesn't mean i don't have reasons to think he's scum.

it is largely a meta-based read. there are differences in how he plays as scum and town, and i am pretty sure this is his scum game. i don't really expect anyone to be convinced by me saying this, but you can compare and contrast how he talks in games he's town yourself (if you're any good at reading tone and attitude, and i don't think you are based on your current reads, so maybe it's a long shot you'll actually be able to do this)

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Flandre Scarlet

[zMuffinMan]

I'll probably end up being the only one who thinks Pie is still scum

i resisted the urge to write an essay detailing why i think not only was pie's claim fake, but pie's ate was fake as well

but theory and current game state; it's not happening today, we can revisit it like D4 when pieguy has magically been unable to protect a single player.

[zMuffinMan]

This post is good

i wrote that post and i don't even think it was good

you're scum, aren't you?

[zMuffinMan]

Tell me, would you rather lynch mastin or Venmar today? My top2 scumreads

why do you have 2 town in your top 2 scumreads?

[zMuffinMan]

Oh right, zMuffin is still hillariously scum. Anyone want to quicklynch that?

he doesn't look like scum to me, and he's not _that_ hilarious

[zMuffinMan]

stop buddying me

[zMuffinMan]

kagami lurks as scum

called it first

[zMuffinMan]

Ya think so?

Spoiler:

not really. maybe. i only said it because if i'm right, in post game i can point back to #847 and act like i'm fucking awesome at this game. and if i'm wrong, who cares?

[zMuffinMan]

Oh right, zMuffin is still hillariously scum. Anyone want to quicklynch that?

Oh right, zMuffin is still hillariously scum. Anyone want to quicklynch that?

me

muffin is my favorite for today's Miss Scum pageant

*sigh*

i was hoping i didn't have to do this so early in the game

Fiddle-dee-dums, Fiddle-dee-dees,
Declare me an Innocent Child, please

now we sit and wait til bork confirms me

[zMuffinMan]

if i get yours when i'm right

no backsies

[zMuffinMan]

i didn't lie about shit

i asked bork politely (I EVEN SAID PLEASE) to declare me IC and he didn't

not my fault

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

[zMuffinMan]

TOWN:
AngryFratBros
Cabd
Brian Skies
Kaze
Molliemac
Metal Sonic
Orcinus
Pie
Varsoon
Venmar
MASTIN2

3 scum in this town list. at least.

[zMuffinMan]

To me that's a scum move

i'll give you an hour to give a logical response to this question before i, in the words of your partner, "run your ass into the ground"

what possible reason could i have to do that as scum and why is it more likely to come from me as scum than me as town?

[zMuffinMan]

what trolling

don't slander me

[zMuffinMan]

am i obvtown yet

[zMuffinMan]

Demeanor reminds me of FEA

how so? i was actually reading stuff in FEA. here i haven't read shit in the last 30 pages except for briefly skimming

I'd find him odd in a void

odd means what? scummy? what's a void got to do with anything?

why do the rest of your reads suck so much?

My favorites for town ... muffin

uh huh. when did this happen and how did i go from being your pick for the miss scum pageant to town over the course of a few pages where i did nothing but the IC thingy?

[zMuffinMan]

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town.

do you want me to break down exactly why it wasn't town ate? and why his bg claim makes no sense if he's town? because i can. it would be a complete waste of time for today, but i might do it in a spoiler wall at some point if i can be bothered so you can look back at it when he's still alive D4

[zMuffinMan]

i might actually read this game tomorrow. no promises though

[zMuffinMan]

because muffin isn't exactly a common word and kinda sticks out when you're skimming (especially in a reads post)

[zMuffinMan]

although i literally have no idea what skull or aegor's read on me is because i skip their posts entirely lololol

does the BRO head think i'm scum or just that bad one that hasn't played with me before?

[zMuffinMan]

you should talk to BRO and see if he tells you why you're wrong

why do you think i'm scum?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think bro is bad enough to think i'm scum here

[zMuffinMan]

like even if he has doubts about me being town (and i dunno why he would, i'm super ultra town), i don't think he'd think i'm scum here

[zMuffinMan]

You are playing a style where you just post whatever you feel

mm. so? i'm clearly not reading the game in any depth at the moment, so that has something to do with it, but i don't get what your problem is here. for example, how is what i'm doing any different to what mollie is doing?

Nothing you've posted looks genuinely town motivated

if you cannot see town motivation in my posts, then you're not looking hard enough. what's your definition of "town motivated" anyway? or is that just another gut-level thing?

[zMuffinMan]

You are just posting whatever you want and ascribing your townieness to lolmetathisishowipost.

:/ i don't think i've mentioned my own meta once, and me being super duper town has nothing to do with my meta. i imagine i could post like this as scum (it's been something i've wanted to do for a while just to see if i could get away with it and this would probably be the perfect player list to get away with it if there ever was one) but you're paying too much attention to things that don't really matter and are simply me injecting some light-hearted stuff into the game

posting random stuff that Im having a hard time buying you are actually interested in

like what? coz outside of questions i'm obviously joking about, i don't ask questions for no reason, and i don't comment on things i'm not actually interested in talking about

[zMuffinMan]

also i imagine i would be useless even if i were following the game to the point i could give decent input on things

so you're going to be severely disappointed if you're hoping for me to do something useful

[zMuffinMan]

i'm not going to be lynched this game

[zMuffinMan]

i'll fall for it, and then i'll claim town, and then you'll think i'm town, and we can move on? yes?

[zMuffinMan]

muffin's IC claim was stupid but null.

^ shit like this is why Aegor is obvious town.

what do you mean? he called it stupid. LAL

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Flandre

[zMuffinMan]

i will paypal $100 to whoever shoots metal sonic tonight







disclaimer: i won't actually

[zMuffinMan]

i want to lynch from this group today: {flandre, MS, kagami, cabd, kaze, cephrir} roughly in order of most to least desired lynches

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

[zMuffinMan]

what do your reads look like now, ffery

[zMuffinMan]

... so everything is the same as the list from back around p20 except those 3? or am i missing your latest reads coz this is all i could find from you

i don't remember nacho giving anything but a town list and i remember thinking it sucked balls

what do you think of 1183

[zMuffinMan]

i'm town

[zMuffinMan]

I'm cool with Cabd for scum now.

should you choose to embark upon this journey, i shall aid you in your noble quest

[zMuffinMan]

mastin, venmar, skull, AFB, orcinus, AD, varsoon
aegor, mollie, sangres
flandre, kaze
brian-slot
cephrir
cabd

to be lynched D4 list: pieguy

IF THERE IS A GOD, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE VIGGED list: METAL SONIC, MAFIASSK (in that order)
(MS because even if he isn't scum, he has a secret scum win con and mafiassk because he's probably town but mafiassk)

[zMuffinMan]

o slot kagami in between brian-slot and cephrir. or maybe between cephrir and cabd i dunno

[zMuffinMan]

I think it's interesting that 1183 didn't get more discussion. I'm still happy with my vote.

what do you think is 'interesting' about it? and why does it warrant more discussion?

coz i think it was a town looking post

and i don't see why people think otherwise

[zMuffinMan]

Annotate this

that is my reads list, it is very pretty and i like it a lot. please be nice to it.

Unvote
Vote: Cabd

[zMuffinMan]

How so?

i don't see how you can point out it was a non-defense and then be so oblivious to why i think it was a town post. but let's ignore that for a moment and think about something. pretend flandre is scum (i know this is a big ask, but just *try* to do this) and tell me what you think his/her mindset was when writing 1183 and what he/she was trying to achieve

at least two people are now calling me scum for preventing a quickhammer on day one

that has nothing to do with why i think you're scum - it's a rather null factor, actually, and i don't care one way or another about your unvote

[zMuffinMan]

"The way my bandwagon is forming/not forming means I'm town" is a pretty common tack IME

that's not what was being said at all

[zMuffinMan]

i wish flandre would do something really town looking so i could call people stupid with more conviction

i also wish people would lynch cabd

i feel none of my wishes will ever come true :<

[zMuffinMan]

oh my third wish is a vig on ms

this one could potentially come true

side note: any "vig" who claims to hit anyone BUT ms should be treated as a serial killer

[zMuffinMan]

why can't you write town-looking posts?

[zMuffinMan]

why can't you write town-looking posts either?

well apparently i fucking have because you think i'm likely town

[zMuffinMan]

uh huh

remind me what your reads are

[zMuffinMan]

uh huh

so no scum reads outside of mastin and a bunch of nulls (venmar is now null for you apparently?)

[zMuffinMan]

muffina he is town

considering you have no scum reads, i'm taking this with a bag full of grains of salt

[zMuffinMan]

i must admit i laughed pretty fucking hard at 1492

if that was your intention, kudos

if not, well, fuck

[zMuffinMan]

i'm still laughing. that was really good.

coz this line sets it up

However I have a concern with him which I'll detail in my next post.

then BAM

that was... really, fucking good

[zMuffinMan]

zmuffin

Spoiler:

*shrug* i had ill feelings about the speed of the wagon after that post i thought looked town (and i have a feeling there was some pretty major bussing going on in the buildup there but i haven't gone back and looked at it yet). though one thing you should remember is...

Spoiler:

Unvote
Vote: Flandre Scarlet

VOTE: Flandre

you sheeped me, so ha

[zMuffinMan]

cabd is still likely scum. it bothers me that people aren't noticing the fact he's posting a lot and saying absolutely nothing worth reading. he would be my first guess for bussing scum in the speed wagon that developed yesterday

not sure on kagami

also i may not be able to vote today. i dunno. need to check with bork

[zMuffinMan]

can someone unvote

coz even if kagami is scum, i'd prefer this day didn't end so quickly

i really don't like the wagon composition after mastin but eh

[zMuffinMan]

I figured there had to be some enabling or activation mechanism, but apparently there either isn't or someone is terrible at picking up crumbs.

also the above line sort of fits with the below line

Unfortunately nothing interesting happened to me tonight

though whether this actually means anything re: kagami, i dunno. it could have just been planning for the eventual fake claim

[zMuffinMan]

bork trolling me. i think i can vote

i dunno - i'm not particularly interested in them and they'll sort themselves out. i'm also not going to play guessing games about how many scum is in each. and i also think flandre including your entire neighbourhood in that one post

could

have been a coincidence (aegor vs skull was a thing a lot of people were commenting on, brian was a topic of conversation early game, and you + mollie had some back and forth just prior to that post i believe)

really, really bad - also dunno why his scum read on me evaporated

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: MafiaSSK

you win this time, nacho

[zMuffinMan]

o wait

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

you win this time, nacho

[zMuffinMan]

why am i voting metal sonic when mafiassk is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

hey mafiassk

are you just a full tracker?

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote

[zMuffinMan]

does bork ever include investigative roles that aren't gated in some way

[zMuffinMan]

@ muffina

I noticed that all you are doing is sheeping nacho who isn't the 1 you have been dealing btw and not doing shit on your own wats up wif dat

*shrug*

[zMuffinMan]

mastin still town

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, at BEST serial killer, but i don't think that is all that likely. and his posts look like town-mastin so still town

[zMuffinMan]

oh yeah

gooner's entrance to the game looked townish and had the previous day phase lasted longer than like 24 hours i woulda been asking about where the scum reads on gooner were coming from

i've seen a lot of people here and there mentioning a scum read on gooner and no real explanations for it

[zMuffinMan]

thought that vca is pretty dumb since there's no real reason to assume x on, y off

[zMuffinMan]

also i believe mafiassk is a tracker, and i believe he tracked ffery n1 (and probably also skull n2) - i just think these actions are more likely to come from a scum tracker than a town tracker

[zMuffinMan]

like 1362, 1368 would be good reasons to believe he'd track me over sangres

or possibly pieguy 1439 if he thought pieguy's vote was weird and wanted to confirm pieguy's role

but sangres is a weird choice given he basically said nothing about them d1 (or d2 for that matter)

[zMuffinMan]

1378*

[zMuffinMan]

i dunno why you're assuming there's 5 factional scum and if you're including probable SK as part of the 5 then ??? to VCA

if, for example, flandre was part of a 4-man scum team then 3 on the bus is not an impossibility if it was a planned sacrifice (and i'm inclined to think there was at least some bussing going on given how quickly that wagon developed)

likewise, if factional scum is down to 3 now then anything goes D2 (from an objective pov, if you have reasons to assume X on, Y off then go ahead)

15:4:1 seems like a reasonable guess for what the setup is
14:5:1 only makes sense if there's a ton of town power (and the flipped roles are OK but nothing to write home about)

[zMuffinMan]

^ i am assuming the 1-shot bp didn't count for his protects

at the very least, i'm not interested in guessing what is or isn't the case here since it seems irrelevant except for people who are assuming one of {AD, mafiassk} must be scum who performed a kill on sangres - and they're dumb

[zMuffinMan]

scroll up

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: mafiassk

[zMuffinMan]

i think mafiassk is scum and i don't think he was trying to kill sangres

so tell me why mafiassk goes on and on about me being scum D1, questions pieguy about voting flandre, doesn't mention sangres at all (or skull) and then tracks sangres N1 and skull N2?

fuck, tell me why mafiassk completely dropped the

only

scum read he was really confident about D1 in order to track... what? sangres? then skull? seriously? because he found skull scummy?

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah mafiassk is totally a town tracker tracking his suspects

Unvote

because i have to :<

[zMuffinMan]

whereas a town-SSK doesn't give a damn, posts what he likes, and as a result, does give some good content

where did that happen in this game

[zMuffinMan]

I noted you were more lurky than usual and so I voted you. That was pretty much why I thought you were scum. It wasn't strong and it was sorta hypocritical.

hahahaha no

keep your story straight

Spoiler:

No the IC claim is just fake. That's just bad.

VOTE: Muffin

i'm not going to be lynched this game

By the way, Muffin's still scum, guys. Just thought I'd say so because the wagon only has 2 votes and it's disappointing.

mastin, venmar, skull, AFB, orcinus, AD, varsoon
aegor, mollie, sangres
flandre, kaze
brian-slot
cephrir
cabd

to be lynched D4 list: pieguy

IF THERE IS A GOD, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE VIGGED list: METAL SONIC, MAFIASSK (in that order)
(MS because even if he isn't scum, he has a secret scum win con and mafiassk because he's probably town but mafiassk)

So I know that my vote has stayed on Muffin for the majority of the game, but he is such obv scum! Just look at this post!
Vague reads? Check.
Buddying (with pieguy? Check.
Wanting to vig me even though he thinks I'm town?

Seriously. Just look and tell me you don't want to vote Muffinz.

mastin, venmar, skull, AFB, orcinus, AD, varsoon
aegor, mollie, sangres
flandre, kaze
brian-slot
cephrir
cabd

to be lynched D4 list: pieguy

IF THERE IS A GOD, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE VIGGED list: METAL SONIC, MAFIASSK (in that order)
(MS because even if he isn't scum, he has a secret scum win con and mafiassk because he's probably town but mafiassk)

So I know that my vote has stayed on Muffin for the majority of the game, but he is such obv scum! Just look at this post!
Vague reads? Check.
Buddying (with pieguy? Check.
Wanting to vig me even though he thinks I'm town?

Seriously. Just look and tell me you don't want to vote Muffinz.

This post really sucks SSK. Especially the buddying pieguy comment. zmuffin's trajectory on pieguy is far from buddying.

Blah blah trajectory blah blah. What a load of crap it is. It all has to start from somewhere right? Why not this post? Why can't the start be small? Wouldn't that in fact be an even smarter method for scum to post with?

these are not the posts of someone who is voting someone else for lurking and these are not the posts of someone who thinks their suspicion is weak

[zMuffinMan]

also, none of those explain where your read on me went, mafiassk, coz you were really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really fucking confident about it D1 and i don't think a single night phase after a scum lynch that i wasn't on and even spoke out against was going to change your mind about me

[zMuffinMan]

mastin i dare you to fucking read what mafiassk wrote about me D1 and tell me you think what he's saying is genuine or makes sense here

[zMuffinMan]

Random thought: on day two, at least one person said that they thought Varsoon was not a mafia kill. I need to look back and see who said this and/or who agreed with it, since they have a significantly higher chance of being scum

also without checking i believe that was sangres or cabd? i remember it being one of them that first brought it up i think

[zMuffinMan]

All that's been demolished. He's given reads, pieguy was town, him wanting to vig me is fine.

no. bad. none of this explains why you changed your mind on me

pieguy only died LAST NIGHT so that wasn't a reason you changed your mind on me prior to today. i gave reads WHEN YOU CALLED ME SCUMMY FOR IT so that's not a reason for changing your mind. and how the fuck is me wanting you vigged D1 fine now compared to D1?

and i refuse to believe you simply "forgot" your read on me when you were so fervently pushing it D1

and none of this matches up with what you just said a page ago about voting me for being more lurky than you remember me being so uhhhhhhhhhhhh

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: MAFIASSK

will my vote remain this time? who knows?

[zMuffinMan]

well sangres knows

[zMuffinMan]

Guys I actually think Metal Sonic is the best lynch right now..

maybe

i don't believe mafiassk is town, though

do you?

therefore his unwillingness to drop the case means that Venmar is probably the scum

no

at least pretend to be town

[zMuffinMan]

Kaze is a terrible lynch

INSIDE INFO?

[zMuffinMan]

L-1 LAL

[zMuffinMan]

CLAIM MAFIASSK

nobody hammer without a claim

[zMuffinMan]

What happened between 2228 and this post?

. . . . . ?

uh

nothing?

I feel like I won a lottery I didn't enter.

2getha til death do us part

[zMuffinMan]

Oh muffin will today be the day you become useful?

NO

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: SKULL

nacho

why am i voting town?

if there's scum in your neighbourhood, it's aegor

i don't wanna vote town

Muffin, is mastin scum?

NO

at best SK

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin you are invited to the party.

The party on this Aegor wagon.

need nacho at the party

i'm his slightly uncool wingman

[zMuffinMan]

btw whoever said aegor was pushing ssk yesterday and it looked town

hold on was reading cephrir's posts from yesterday and had something to bring up about that

[zMuffinMan]

@whoever mentioned aegor's push on ssk pointing towards aegor being town

aegor didn't push ssk all that hard

these were his initial posts D2

Spoiler:

VOTE: MafiaSSK

Supports FS wagon but never votes and questions a vote on it.

In all seriousness, I'm down for this Flandre wagon. So yeah.

Pieguyn, what's your reasoning for the Flandre vote?

Kaze remains a great lynch.

o wait

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

you win this time, nacho

Are you serious? MafiaSSK is very obviously scum.

hey mafiassk

are you just a full tracker?

If I'm correctly reading some of the hints that people have dropped, it sounds like there might be at least three separate Neighborhoods in this game. I originally thought that there had to be one Scum somewhere between you, AFB, and Metal Sonic, but if there are multiple Neighborhoods, then that theory might not be accurate. If there are three Neighborhoods, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one of them was all-Town. What do you think about the abundance of Neighborhoods and do you agree or disagree with my observations in this paragraph?

What hints were these that led you to think 3 neighborhoods?

UNVOTE

hey mafiassk

are you just a full tracker?

Yup.

Unvote

does bork ever include investigative roles that aren't gated in some way

VOTE: Kaze

what i don't like about this is the unnatural progression. his reasoning for voting ssk was meh but he seemed convinced that mafiassk was "very obviously scum" (the second quote there is the most unnatural part of this i think) - but then dropped it and voted kaze before:

Spoiler:

also i believe mafiassk is a tracker, and i believe he tracked ffery n1 (and probably also skull n2) - i just think these actions are more likely to come from a scum tracker than a town tracker

oh thank god
sorry, I skimmed like a motherfucker after SSK became obviously scum

Vote: MafiaSSK

I disagree with ffery's Metal Sonic scumread now.

Vote: mafiassk

so this was when the mafiassk picked up actual steam

and afterwards is when this happened

VOTE: SSK

Fine. You guys are boring.

VOTE: MafiaSSK

L-1

it looked like bussing a sinking ship

[zMuffinMan]

I thought that his insight looked too good to come from town

is this because i said mafiassk is a scum tracker? coz that just seemed like a rather obvious conclusion to me

i dunno - claim reminded me of mala's claim in xenogears (incidentally, this game is playing out very similar to xenogears so far)

[zMuffinMan]

How is that suspicious? MafiaSSK was very obviously scum. And guess what? He flipped scum. My reasoning for voting SSK -- his position on the FS wagon in addition to the N1 shenanigans -- was more solid than ANYTHING ANYONE had presented on anyone else that day.

my issue with this is how unnatural it felt. the justification for the vote on mafiassk felt like, "hey i need to figure out some original reason for pushing mafiassk so it doesn't look like bussing!" and the conviction here - that mafiassk was "very obviously scum" felt like putting on airs because, really, i thought he was scum

after

i assessed his claim and thought about possibilities, but even i wasn't sure he was very obviously scum. what's more, if he was very obviously scum, the vote on kaze doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 819 and 1693 are the only real cases you've put forth against kaze and at no point in the game have you suggested he is very obviously scum or anything like that. which makes me think the mafiassk conviction is because you knew he's scum and the lack of conviction with kaze is because you're scum pushing a mislynch

Could you please explain how the hell it makes sense for me to push a bus through on my buddy after another player has presented me with a big-ass opening?

because the mafiassk lynch was likely happening with or without you - you did very little to push it through (i don't think anyone even really acknowledged what you said about him) whereas the kaze lynch wasn't happening <- this doesn't necessarily mean you are definitely scum, but there is plenty of scum motivation in bussing here for whatever town cred it was worth (and some people seem to think it was worth some town cred)

You also conveniently ignore my order that someone hammer in post 2211, repeated again in post 2311, not to mention my insistence that SSK could be a Maf Tracker in post 2328.

yes i ignored all posts after cephrir's bus vote because, if you are scum with cephrir, that would be the point where it was obviously scum's plan to bus

but honestly, those posts aren't impressive anyway - and no, you didn't "insist" ssk could be a mafia tracker, you questioned someone saying a mafia tracker was unlikely (well after i put forward the idea); i suppose you could argue this is because you thought he was a mafia tracker, but you never stated this as an opinion iirc

[zMuffinMan]

People who deduce that either ActionDan or SSK must be Scum because of Cabd's Watcher results are dumb...even though you ultimately agree with the conclusions that those players reached and supported the SSK lynch.

learn to read, i'll bold the important part

at the very least, i'm not interested in guessing what is or isn't the case here since it seems irrelevant except for people who are assuming one of {AD, mafiassk} must be

scum who performed a kill

on sangres - and they're dumb

So SSK went from being "Yeah, he's totally a Town Tracker who is tracking people he suspects" to "Yeah, he's totally Scum and we should definitely lynch him" in the span of a few pages, but nothing changed between those few pages to cause such a jarring shift in your opinion of SSK. Sounds legit.

yes, i totally thought mafiassk was a town tracker and you can totally see that from the entire context of the post you're referring to. the first line of the post you're quoting even practically gives away that i think mafiassk is a town tracker, and i backtracked on it so quickly. also this reply is dripping with sincerity.

ISO MafiaSSK and look at his interactions with Muffin. Lurky, noncommittal SSK spends an inordinate amount of time addressing Muffin, and all of those interactions carry the pungent aroma of Scum buddies distancing

oh, really? do go on

I am liking Skull's posts more and more. Will review claims made therein.

heh

[zMuffinMan]

I STILL say muffina's incessant trolling is town the only thing that gives me pause is how he is playing up to sangres who are just gobbling it up.

i made a pact with nacho and i dare not break the pirate's code. had he lost the pact, i would expect no less from him.

i think i'm incredibly easy to read but some people seem to have trouble figuring me out so, in the spirit of AP's flowchart, i decided to design a flowchart of my own to help people:

Spoiler:

[zMuffinMan]

@aegor,

i wasn't saying that people who add additional reasoning are scummy - just that the way in which you did it felt like scum who thought it was necessary to tack on additional reasoning to look more town or something. it didn't feel natural.

and saying "of course it does" doesn't explain why you thought mafiassk was so "very obviously scum" - because i don't think (given the reasoning you put forth) he was very obviously scum, which is why i don't believe the conviction there was genuine. mafiassk flipping scum is the REASON i think the conviction was unnatural soooooo being proven "right" about him doesn't help your case

but after riding the FS wagon, why would I not just ride the SSK one out? Why post in response to mastin instead of letting his defense play out and see what happens? My vote is already on SSK; I could have just posted nothing.

i don't really get what you're asking here. are you asking me what the scum motivation is in avoiding prods? or are you simply asserting that, as scum, you would have gone silent after putting a bus vote down?

The fact that I voted SSK, never questioned his tracker claim, and then asked a rhetorical question about his being a maf tracker in the same post in which I asked a rhetorical question about why he is still alive constitutes an opinion that he is a maf tracker.

no it doesn't, but that's not even really an issue for me, anyway, so i don't care about this

[zMuffinMan]

I think Skull flipping mafia might make zMuffin slightly likelier to be SK.

first, i don't think i was a very likely NK target last night soooooo this seems like a dumb theory even if skull actually is scum

second, why would factional scum want to get rid of a SK at this point? there is likely only 1, possibly 2 factional scum left - even with the SK killing one of them last night, neither should have any motivation to lynch the other at the moment

[zMuffinMan]

how am i not justifying what i'm saying?

mafiassk flipping town wouldn't have made me think your conviction was necessarily genuine (i dunno, maybe i would have in the same way i think mastin's conviction that mafiassk was town was genuine), but i wouldn't feel as bad about you as i do because of his flip and said conviction looking fake

i don't believe you thought you were drawing attention to yourself by pushing mafiassk - if anything, it looks like you believe you were doing something that was unlikely to come from scum

i also don't like that you're conscious of the fact that you rode out the flandre wagon but did something different in regards to the mafiassk wagon

mafiassk was definitely going to be the lynch yesterday - nothing you did or didn't do would have had any affect on this and nothing you did made this more likely

If/when I die, who next? Who is basically conftown? Anyone have theories on night kills/actions? Who is SK? What are thoughts on mastin, mollie, and Kaze? More specifically than "town" or "scum?" Reasons, with references to specific posts?

if you're town, i look for next most likely scum in your neighbourhood (because there is almost certainly at least one scum in there because ~reasons bork doesn't want discussed~). if you're scum, i'm not thinking that far ahead atm

and i'm not going to go into specifics with my reads on the three people you named (too much effort, too little reward atm), but i do think all three of them look town (or at least not factional scum)

[zMuffinMan]

There is no way you can argue that relative silence on my end would have drawn more attention than repeated pushing for a lynch. Therefore I did draw attention to myself when it was unneeded.

i could argue that lurking can draw more attention than being active, actually. do you want me to? i'd rather not wall theory

God forbid a player have self-awareness. Or do you just post anything and then forget about it?

i am usually not self-aware of specific things like that as town. i am usually aware of my reasoning, who i've voted (though sometimes i forget even this), and how my reads have progressed as the game went on, but i don't think i'm ever aware of things like whether i simply silently rode out a wagon as town. mostly because i never do that as town (or at least if i do that, i'm not conscious that i'm doing it). but you being conscious of it suggests it was a decision you were making.

If mafiaSSK was not obvscum, then there was a definite chance he was not going to be lynched, especially after mastin started pushing a defense

no, mafiassk was going to be lynched (with or without you) and it wasn't because he was "obvscum", it was because he was likely scum and almost everyone agreed with this.

so no. i still don't think your conviction was appropriate

Are you fucking kidding me? That is all you have?

yes

[zMuffinMan]

i could argue that lurking can draw more attention than being active, actually. do you want me to? i'd rather not wall theory

actually, i don't think i really need to wall theory to prove this

i'll just use a very obvious extreme example to prove the point

do you think AFB (or insert any name really, but AFB for example purposes) would draw more or less attention if they suddenly started lurking?

the only people who don't draw attention for lurking are chronic lurkers

[zMuffinMan]

I gained absolutely nothing by altering my posting pattern.

(1) how did you alter your posting pattern?
(2) you say you gained nothing, but you're now using this as a defense - ergo you did gain something

I did not "decide" to ride out the FS wagon in the manner you suggest, and if I had, I would certainly not call attention to it on my own initiative

you did decide to ride it out (i don't know how you can suggest otherwise), though, and you didn't decide to draw attention to it until it became a matter of you contrasting how you approached one scum lynch compared to another as a means of suggesting you cannot be scum because you would have approached them uniformly

also if everyone rode out the flandre wagon, then why are you using it as part of your defense?

Even if one accepts your false premises, the conclusion still does not follow

yes, it does

almost everyone thought mafiassk was likely scum -> there was no such general opinion on anyone else -> mafiassk lynch was definitely going to happen bar new information coming to light (mastin's defense wasn't new information)

since your argument rests on my motivation and mental state, I am surprised that this post does not appear in any of your posts

i have nothing to say about that post. it reminds me of cephrir's posts about mafiassk. namely ones where he was suggesting other lynches but not moving his vote

is that meant to be a town post or something?

[zMuffinMan]

i'm not going to get into discussions with you about your posting patterns, or what scum motivation there is in increasing activity, or why you'd be active instead of prod dodging after putting a bus vote down on mafiassk. it's all ridiculously stupid and none of your defenses here look remotely town. i'm also not interested in arguing about whether mafiassk might not have been lynched yesterday; you're wrong here and i don't give two shits about anything you say because you clearly can't read game states

you did point to your posting patterns and claim you're town because of it (or at least said you're not scum for it because why would you do it as scum?) <- so yes, it looks like you were laying the groundwork for this defense because not only were you conscious of it, but you are trying to use it as a reason for being town

i'm not reading your responses as town because i see no town motivation in your responses here.

your conviction about mafiassk being "obviously scum" was unnatural given your reasoning (key point here being your reasoning and your actions re:kaze). nothing you've said has convinced me otherwise. all your responses to this have been along the lines of, "he was scum so nuh uh". but if you were so convinced that mafiassk was very obviously scum, the unvote and move to kaze (who you've expressed no similar opinion about) is even stranger.

also don't really agree with anything you've said about mollie - but hey, if you think your points are so good and the case is the greatest case to happen in this game, why aren't you claiming mollie is "VERY OBVIOUSLY SCUM"?

[zMuffinMan]

and nobody shed a single tear

if aegor flips town, i'm going to treat all his suspects like ICs just to piss him off in the dead thread. anyone who self-votes (or self-hammers, regardless of whether it was a failed attempt) as town is fucking disgusting

[zMuffinMan]

i figured the scum claim was meant to be sarcastic

though if he is scum and he was the person who ~did the thing that must not be talked about because bork says so~ can he be modkilled on death? and then site banned? ty

[zMuffinMan]

if he is town, i don't think he has role-related information that confirms gooner.

he's likely just a fucknut.

[zMuffinMan]

asking for detailed reads on players who i'm not considering a lynch on (and are not in any immediate danger of being lynched) is wasted effort on my part unless you're asking me for a reason - but you never specified a reason. hey, i probably would have given you reasons if you weren't being such a dipshit about it and saying the reasons must include post links - fuck that, i'm not wasting my time

[zMuffinMan]

It is not a wasted effort. It provides information to town and forces all players to actually research the thread instead of just limiting themselves to the narrow pool of people who receive focus and attention

uh huh

yeah

so why didn't you detail all your reads on everyone in the game with post links, etc? couldn't have anything to do with it being wasted effort, could it?

why should i care about your questions about mollie, kaze and mastin if you're not going to give detailed reads on everyone else in the game?

[zMuffinMan]

it's not a false dichotomy - i don't give a fuck whether you asked for it. if i asked you to do it, you wouldn't have done it. while perhaps, in an ideal world where everyone has all the free time they want to do things like that, it might be a good idea, in reality it's a waste of time.

and IF you are town, even if it were a "low info lynch" (i don't think it is), it's one you fast-tracked so suck a bag of dicks and maybe quit mafia you pathetic waste of oxygen - self-voting as town is like... the single fucking stupidest thing you can ever do and there is no excuse for it, ever

[zMuffinMan]

sangres town
orcinus town
ad town
mastin town
venmar town
gooner town

will policy lynch rest of game for not looking town (or would if i could vote)

mass claim today?

[zMuffinMan]

wait i only need 5 of those players to be town for autowin

AUTOWIN STRATEGY ACTIVATED

XENOGEARS V2

[zMuffinMan]

omg look at activity overview so many people due for prods

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Kazekirimaru

i think he's town but whatevs

[zMuffinMan]

actually i don't think he's town but i don't think he's scum so whatevs

[zMuffinMan]

If you hadn't consigned yourself to mafia serfdom, who would you be voting?

i'd probably be PLing metal sonic today and if he flips town i think the best plan of action is to coast til lylo and try to figure out stuff then coz i dunno who's scum

[zMuffinMan]

o haha i wrote the last post without having read the last few pages

wheeeeeeeeeeeeee

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

[zMuffinMan]

o i dont have a town read on mollie but you don't wanna lynch her so i don't really have much say there, do i? if there is another scum in your neighbourhood, my guess would be mollie->skull->gooner in order of likelihood of being scum

outside your neighbourhood, if metal sonic is town thennnnn i dunno

[zMuffinMan]

but is he scummy because he's scum or is he scummy because he's kaze?!?!?

same question about you

[zMuffinMan]

it's not me you have to convince anyway i don't have a vote, i am merely a double vote enabler who's forced to sheep sangres or get modkilled

[zMuffinMan]

ftr, i remember kaze's claim and he claimed character but not role then in his next post claimed role

sooooo

yeah

though i don't really get what he thinks skull was going to achieve by lying about something like that when it would be easily verifiable once posts are restored

[zMuffinMan]

every time I ask him about it he snarls and gets snarky like he won't let me anywhere near him

wat

I guess it's possible that he claimed Shion/VT in one and Mary Magdalene in the other and I only noticed one of them?

iirc the first post for his claim was him saying his full character claim including the mary magdalene part, then in his next post he said something like "in other words, VT"

but whatev, will be sorted when posts restored

[zMuffinMan]

*blush*

i don't think i'm that likely a NK target, ffery

[zMuffinMan]

what is there to explain?

[zMuffinMan]

why are people assuming there is necessarily only one scum left? 14:5:1 is entirely possible (depending on remaining scum power / unclaimed town power), in which case announcing a JK target doesn't do much

[zMuffinMan]

and you are all like "I do not have the warm glow that you guyz do about mollie lets lynch her" with zero interaction and not to mention that you have yet to state reasons

you don't look town

everyone else i listed as town looks more town than you - sangres and AD are virtually conftown via N1 actions, orcinus is virtually conftown via claim (but i had him as town from play and interactions with cephrir not making sense as scum-scum), and venmar/mastin/gooner all look more town than you from play, so you're in a poe list of players i don't think look as town as the rest of the game

i don't have to interact with people to form reads, surprising as that may be. though saying i have "zero interaction" with you isn't quite true. minimal interaction would be more correct.

[zMuffinMan]

usually mods factor the possibility of cross kills into balancing the a setup with a SK so 14:5:1 isn't an impossibility. i've seen 14:5 with an adequately stacked town and no possibility of cross kills, and i've seen 9:3:2:1 (6 anti-town players in 15 with 2 of those anti-town factions having the ability to kill) so i don't make stupid assumptions that could lose me a game by being blindsided by something, especially if i don't have all the claims on the table

[zMuffinMan]

i don't really care if orcinus announces a single target. if a kill goes through, i'm not going to push a lynch on said slot before looking for scum outside of them, but i'm not going to treat the slot as confirmed

[zMuffinMan]

you're unsure on AD who was seen targeting the same player the scum tracker targeted N1, and orcinus who's a claimed hated-until-N2-then-turns-JK (which makes perfect sense as a role bork would put in a game)?

[zMuffinMan]

i feel vaguely town about kaze, and at least not scummy

i'd lynch you, mollie and skull prob before i lynch kaze

speaking of, where does your strong town read on mollie come from?

[zMuffinMan]

tl;dr cephrir's iso's associative tells point towards kaze as the last scumbuddy

i read everything you quoted and i don't get how you came to the conclusions you came to

note that cephrir was probably referring to himself as scum in the neighbourhood

and cephrir wasn't in the neighbourhood

remaining neighbourhood players are mollie, skull, sangres and gooner, all of whom you have strongly town except gooner

[zMuffinMan]

(from the neighbourhood cephrir was referring to, obv. i am aware you and venmar are in a separate neighbourhood)

[zMuffinMan]

nothing

but now that i'm thinking about it and remembering it, there's still the {THING BORK DOESN'T WANT US TO DISCUSS} and i don't think aegor was the one that did the {THING BORK DOESN'T WANT US TO DISCUSS} because i can't really think of any way in which a SK would QT slip something, which means if there IS only one scum left it's prob in the bigger neighbourhood actually

[zMuffinMan]

you don't

need

to think

liar

LAL

[zMuffinMan]

you really don't give a shit who gets lynched do you

VOTE: muffina

excuse me for a moment

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[zMuffinMan]

can anyone who has a town read on mollie explain WHY they have a town read on mollie?

also

Unvote

[zMuffinMan]

why don't you explain why you think i'm scum

[zMuffinMan]

But not if there are two left, like you've been suggesting? Why is this only a possibility if there's just one Scum player left?

it's not

if there

is

only one scum left, it's probably in the big neighbourhood (do you disagree with my logic or?)

if there's more than one scum left, i still think there's one in the big neighbourhood - nothing changes, just that there's also probably scum outside the neighbourhood as well

[zMuffinMan]

(it was more like a "hey, if you actually think there's only one scum left in the game, then that thing that happened that we can't actually talk about is a pretty huge fucking indicator of where that one scum likely is")

[zMuffinMan]

and i don't know why i'm the only one talking about the thing we can't talk about

coz the thing we can't talk about seems like something we should talk about

[zMuffinMan]

you keep saying referring to something borky said or did and for some reason in your mind this clears you!

i literally have no idea what you're talking about

unless you're referring to me mentioning the thing that cannot be mentioned in which case i'm not clearing myself because of that, i'm just bringing it up because it seems a rather important thing to neglect

you have been dogging sangres heels and not really doing any scumhunting of you own.

you say that but i played a somewhat major (or minor, i dunno, depends how you look at it) part in pushing the mafiassk and aegor lynches through (even if i wasn't voting aegor, arguably the self-vote breakdown had a lot to do with my unrelenting push on him so whatevs) and i've made my stances on the rest of the game pretty fucking clear

what scum hunting have

you

done recently?

[zMuffinMan]

are you...

are you serious?

coz like

i have a very low opinion of your town game. like a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very low opinion of your town game

but i don't think it's this bad

[zMuffinMan]

why would a mod not want people to talk about this? because it's game-breaking (even if we can't talk about it, it's still something that happened and therefore something i'm thinking about and factoring into my approach). or the mod might have thought it was borderline breaching paraphrasing rules. or there could be any other number of reasons the mod wouldn't want people to talk about it. whatever. i dunno.

so here's a hypothetical situation, that may or may not have anything to do with this game:

there's a neighbourhood, with 5 people in it, and someone in that neighbourhood is known to have deleted a post in it

if it were a town player who genuinely made a slip unrelated to this game, they'd have come forth by now or explained it in the QT or something. but that hasn't happened and so whoever did it didn't want to draw attention to the fact that they did it, which means it was likely a slip that related to this game. it probably wasn't the SK because i cannot fathom any way in which a SK would QT slip in such a manner that they'd need to delete it so it was likely a member of the scum faction accidentally posting in the wrong QT

[zMuffinMan]

It seems like you're assuming that there must be Scum in the big neighborhood simply because it's a big neighborhood and the odds are in favor of it

also this is literally the opposite of what i actually said

i do not think there must be scum because big neighbourhood (even before aegor flipped, i didn't think this, as likely as it was)

it has everything to do with a certain event that happened in said big neighbourhood, and not with the fact it's a big neighbourhood

[zMuffinMan]

why do you think i'm scum, mollie? was 2951 it?

[zMuffinMan]

in xeno2 you put me at arm's length but still interacted with me and here you aren't doing it which is weird cos we have a history!

we don't really have _that_ much history. i've played with you 3 times? one of those times i'm doing my best to forget ever happened, one of those times i was scum, and one of those times was xenogears, where you actually had opinions and stances, totally unlike this game, where the closest you've come to giving a reads list is D1 where you had zero scum reads (apart from i think maybe two people as "maybe scum" or something? i forget)

not letting me in is probably 1 of the biggest scum markers

. . . . .

if you are not scum then it has to be venny

nope

[zMuffinMan]

don't try to set up a "one of muffin / venmar must be scum" thing here

i mean, you can try if you want, but it's either going to make it obvious you're scum or i will lose any respect i still had for your town game

[zMuffinMan]

and this is what I hate. nacho, dgb, nero cain and a bunch of people can mislynch some1 and no1 thinks anything of it but when I mess up it is "omg mollie is stoopid".

i don't care about that, really

it has nothing to do with why i have a low opinion of your town game

i mislynch people all the time. bad reads are a part of mafia. but when i do it, or when any of those other players do it, i like to think there's a more solid foundation than "I AM ALWAYS RIGHT ABOUT X" or "PIRATE SPEAK IS SCUMMY" or whatever the fuck you're going on about in this game with venmar/me

[zMuffinMan]

also whether or not you're a "shit" player is another matter altogether

my opinion of your play has very little to do with how good or bad a player i think you are in other aspects of the game (like read accuracy or whatever you're referring to by "things you did right")

[zMuffinMan]

he is telling me my town game sucks he knows i am town

i don't believe you're town

i was merely explaining why i have a low opinion of your town game since

you made an issue of it

[zMuffinMan]

incidentally, your play here is reminding me very much of tammy's play in that open. do nothing all game, get called out on it, whine about how you're town and blah blah then tunnel on town players (aegor being the only exception here but SK so whatever)

[zMuffinMan]

He pointed pretty strongly at our neighborhood at the end of the day. Said nothing about the other neighborhood and hadn't FoSed MS or Venmar in ages.

fwiw, ceph "pointed pretty strongly" to your neighbourhood at the end of the day because that was the topic of conversation at the time (with the deleted QT post etc) - if not for that, i doubt he would have even mentioned it

I want focus to mainly be on {Muffin, Metal Sonic, Venmar} (with Venmar as the weakest), and with some focus on pidgey

why are your reads bad? like with the possible exception of metal sonic, it's pretty unlikely there's scum in that list

[zMuffinMan]

bork's thingy changes nothing except for the fact that it's not a certainty there's scum in your neighbourhood

my reads are still basically the same as they were (fwiw they never had anything to do with the qt thing, that was an afterthought that occurred to me today)

[zMuffinMan]

2884

[zMuffinMan]

I have done a helluva lot more than you

i literally don't remember anything you've done this game outside of arguing with aegor

and i think you called gooner scum at some point but that read miraculously disappeared for no reason or something

and apart from that, no stances. you did hammer someone who was almost inevitably going to be lynched D1 but that's about as close to doing something as i've seen from you so far

so no you've done shit all, which is part of why i don't think you're town

I mean all you are doing is sheeping nacho, tunneling on me but not voting me oh and going after metal who is like lynchbait

. . . . .

literally everything you said in this sentence is incorrect. i'm sheeping nacho's votes because i have to, but for the most part (apart from the read on mafiassk which we seemed to agree on) our reads have been pretty different. and metal sonic is always lynchbait, regardless of alignment, so what's your fucking point? never lynch lynchbait players? yeah, good luck with that

the reverse of this is that all YOU are doing is tunneling on me and calling metal sonic lynchbait. clap fucking clap. you're the epitome of towniness

[zMuffinMan]

also the fact that you're using my voting habits this game as the crux of your argument for me "sheeping nacho" and "doing nothing" is fucking hilarious

my ISO is full of interactions, pushes, stances, etc - and really, i'm about as obvtown as i can be to anyone who's actually paying attention