Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[Skullduggery]

Come on, Varsoon, hurry up and buddy me so I'll know whether or not you're Scum.

Muffin

Before he claims something resembling an innocent child.

Better backtrack and sheep AP before you flip something like SuperSaint.

Why are you already so interested in what Muffin will flip? Why Muffin in particular?

Yeah, it's called respect. Enjoy it while you can.

I don't think that's why you decided to sheep AP.

VOTE: Brian Skies

[roll]1d20[/roll]

Well, that's unfortunate.

Why a d20? You know your own alignment, don't you? Was a self-vote one of those options?

I havent read any of their posts but probability is on my side and maybe Brian made a post that seemed pretty town?

Did he now? Which post? I grew up on Where's Waldo books, but doggone it, I just can't seem to find it.

Serious as a myocardial infarction.

He feels weird.

As far as reasons to vote someone are concerned, "He feels weird" seems like the opposite of serious.

scum are more aware of super-saints and in this case it wouldn't even affect him.

If there really is a Super Saint in this game, why do you say that it wouldn't affect Brian?

[Skullduggery]

Did you seriously just post a quote wall to respond to a large number of non-serious posts with either equally pointless responses or taking them seriously? Yuck.

You think

that's

a quote wall? Honey, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Anyway, yeah, hi. I'm Skullduggery. Nice to meet you. This is kind of my thing. I interact with people, ask them questions, and make observations about their play so I can figure them out. What a crazy thing to do in a Mafia game, huh?

The Brian vote seems especially disingenuous.

It's page three and we're barely out of RVS. Seeing as how you just criticized me for asking some general questions to get my bearings, does that mean you expect super-serious votes from me already? Do you expect the same from everyone?

[Skullduggery]

Like, seriously, if you don't like quote walls, you'd better get used to them. I'm not going to change the way I play for your sake.

[Skullduggery]

Alright, I'm going to keep this Brian wagon in the back of my mind for when/if he eventually dies and flips.

UNVOTE:

If Brian flips Town, I'd be more inclined to look at who

wasn't

on his wagon to find Scum since I imagine that Scum off the wagon wouldn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole.

If Brian flips Scum, then it would make more sense to look at the early voters on his wagon to see if there were any partners who casually voted for him without realizing that it was going to turn into an L-1 wagon so quickly.

I wouldn't have voted for Brian if I didn't think he was Scum, so I'm looking more closely at the second scenario right now. The first three people on the Brian wagon were Kaze, Pieguyn, and Flandre. Of those three, Flandre is making me the most uncomfortable. I see nothing but fluff, a naked vote, and what looks like an attempt to produce content just for the sake of producing content.

VOTE: Flandre Scarlet

General knowledge: skulduggery is really good at looking town but has poor scum hunting skills

What do you hope to accomplish by slandering and discrediting me so early? Are you afraid of people listening to me? If so, why?

@Skull: wow, hostility, geez. You're allowed to interact with people, but I think you're taking things too seriously is all.

First you say that all my questions and observations are "pointless," but now you're saying that I'm taking things too seriously. Which is it?

You said you didn't like my vote on Brian, but I haven't seen you singling out any other Brian votes. Why is my vote in particular offensive to you?

I do not have any power to neighbor you with, so you have to neighbor me, okay?

I would if I could.

Why wouldn't I be interested (not so much the role, but the alignment)? The idea is to flip scum, not town.

If the idea is to flip Scum, then why did you bring up the Innocent Child and Super Saint roles specifically when talking to Muffin?

The reasons that Cephrir mentioned in 62. The vote especially bothered me, although I must say that the giant wagon was amusing.

Same question I asked Cephrir: why was my vote for Brian offensive but the other nine were perfectly okay?

Aside from finding it "amusing" (which tells us nothing), what do you think of the Brian wagon? Do you object to it? Do you think it was Town-driven or Scum-driven?

Cephrir's aversion to the wagon feels bad. It feels like scum-WKing-town to me.

Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.

Are ya now?

I like Skullduggery for town. I thought I'd have warm fuzzies about Kaze by now, but I don't.

Are you doing what Aegor and I have been doing? (Keeping this vague, so I hope you know what I'm talking about.)

Yes, selfvote was an option.

Why?

Also, I'm going to become increasingly pissy until someone gives me a real reason for thinking Skull is town. Or you, yes you, can nip this in the bud now by telling me! Limited time offer!

Because my role PM says I'm Town.

Consider this bud nipped.

11. MafiaSSK
^Also town. This is SSK's townmeta, through-and-through, and his posting has been goodposting, too.

The only thing that SSK has done so far is vote for Pieguyn. Is that all it takes to be considered a rock-solid Town read or do you have other reasons to be so confident about his alignment?

Please enlighten me on said meta

I keep my wiki page up-to-date. If you want to know more about my meta, you know what to do.

[Skullduggery]

how sure are you of Skull town when there's no scumgames to compare it against to make sure she can't fake?

and how sure are you of Skull town? the only thing giving me reservations about her is that it's a meta-based read and she doesn't have any scumgames to verify she can't fake as scum. I assume you don't think she can fake this kind of posting as scum right

Would it help if I said that I'm terrible at being Scum because I have the worst poker face ever or would you be more inclined to just brush that away as WIFOM? Either way, I'll go on record right now and say that if I was Scum, a substantial chunk of the player list would be Scum-reading me by now. Take it or leave it.

scum are more aware of super-saints and you're the first to bring it up

How and why are Scum more aware of Town-aligned Super Saints? More aware than whom?

Because it's RVS. Is there a reason it shouldn't be an option?

In RVS? No, not really. Why did you vote for Brian? What do you make of his own self-vote (which he made outside of RVS, I should point out)?

It's Mastin. Don't doubt the reads.

How far does this logic extend? Are you willing to believe whatever he says because "It's Mastin"?

You're going to be a moonlogic person, aren't you. I mean yes Scarlet does kinda suck so far, but isolating the first three seems really arbitrary. Why is it the case that scum would be on the beginning of their buddy's wagon? Those votes were more RVS than the others if anything.

..."moonlogic"?

You saw how fast the Brian wagon developed. If you're Scum (giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you aren't) and you see that wagon get five or six votes, do you jump on it or do you stay the fuck away from it for fear of looking like opportunistic bandwagon-jumping Scum? You stay away from it. If you placed a vote on him early, you did so without knowing that the wagon would escalate so quickly because you (presumably) have no way of looking into the future. If there is Scum on the Brian wagon (and I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that there are), they're more likely to be at the beginning than the middle or the end. Do you follow me?

Do you object to my Flandre vote? Has he made enough Towny contributions to the game to deserve a pass?

Second point: You seemed more confident he was scum than I felt was reasonable. Though as you put it to Aegor, I don't know that all nine of the others were necessarily okay, I just can't pick out which one(s) are actually the bad ones.

Fair enough. Speaking of Aegor, what do you think about him piggybacking off your suspicion of me in 159 and asking you why you aren't voting for me in 208? It looks like he's trying to add fuel to the fire and keep us at odds. Do you get the same impression?

I'm trying to resist getting warm fuzzies for you from this because I know how susceptible I am to townreading people just because they get me right.

Embrace the fuzzies.

Embrace them.

Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.

Not right now, but maybe later. Basically, he could be town, but his posting feels like scum manipulating things rather than town scumhunting.

Do you get this feeling from anybody else?

The only thing that SSK has done so far is vote for Pieguyn.

So? (And technically speaking, there was more than just the vote.)

So is that all it takes to be considered a rock-solid Town read or do you have other reasons to be so confident about his alignment?

At the time you listed SSK as Town, he had only made three posts: 48, 49, and 50. I don't see how you get a Town read from that, which means that you must be seeing something that I'm not. I would like to know what that something is.

I wouldn't have voted for Brian if I didn't think he was Scum, so I'm looking more closely at the second scenario right now. The first three people on the Brian wagon were Kaze, Pieguyn, and Flandre. Of those three, Flandre is making me the most uncomfortable. I see nothing but fluff, a naked vote, and what looks like an attempt to produce content just for the sake of producing content.

And my reasoning was so much better?

Not particularly, no. I just think that between the three of you, Flandre has the best chance of flipping Scum. What do you think of Flandre's contributions to the game thus far?

But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.

Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.

I've got a serious case of the Thisfeelstooeasys.

Someone help.

I'm getting similar feelings about Mastin, which is why I haven't joined that wagon. If Mastin does get lynched and flips Town, where would you be likely to look to find Scum?

I've noticed town likes to pile onto large bandwagons.

Including your own? Because if so, that would be a contradiction to what you said in 118, where you listed Scum as anyone on your wagon that you weren't familiar with (Flandre, Kagami, Metal Sonic, and Varsoon). Do you think your wagon was primarily Town-driven or Scum-driven? It can't be both, but that's what it sounds like you're saying.

Has user Varsoon posted

yes

and he's probably really scum right now

Doubtful. Scum-Varsoon isn't the lurking type.

[Skullduggery]

If Brian flips Town, I'd be more inclined to look at who

wasn't

on his wagon to find Scum since I imagine that Scum off the wagon wouldn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole.

Why the hell not?

Because that's the first place you'd look to find Scum. If you're playing hide-and-seek, do you try to hide by standing in the middle of the road or do you hide in a place where the seeker is unlikely to look?

If Brian flips Scum, then it would make more sense to look at the early voters on his wagon to see if there were any partners who casually voted for him without realizing that it was going to turn into an L-1 wagon so quickly.

Would you count yourself among the early voters, or have you conveniently excluded yourself from both categories you recommend scrutinizing based on Brian's indefinitely future lynch?

Are you seriously asking me whether I would consider myself to be a likely candidate when looking for Scum? Why would I do that? What purpose would that serve?

What makes you so certain that Brian is going to be lynched in the future?

Question answered. This vote is just as much of a stretch as the last. You are voting Flandre because she nakedly voted someone who

may

be scum and there is consequently a non-negligible chance that she is scum who casually voted for her partner? The game has lasted a little over a day and FS made like three posts. This vote is

horribad

.

Well, you could always sit there and cry about it. That might help. Your defense of Flandre is noted, though.

Since you seem to be so convinced that Flandre isn't Scum, would you mind explaining why he's Town and why he doesn't deserve to be voted?

Aside from finding it "amusing" (which tells us nothing),

It tells you plenty.

It tells me nothing, actually. What should it be telling me? What should I be getting from this? Why do you feel the need to be so cryptic about it?

What do you think of the Brian wagon?

No opinion.

Bullshit. You said yourself in 159 that my vote for Brian

especially

bothered you, but now you suddenly have no opinion of the Brian wagon? How very convenient. It seems to me that you're afraid to commit to an opinion of the wagon because you might be held accountable to it later.

[Skullduggery]

I would if I could.

Does this have anything to do with that neighbor/lover game?

I'm not sure what game you're referring to. Open 537?

[Skullduggery]

I know SSK. I know his meta, I know his mindset. This is not a scum SSK. Not in a million years. He's so damn transparent that you don't NEED more than that to read him; he is town.

What does Scum SSK look like? For those of us who aren't so intimately familiar with his meta, what should we be looking for?

moonlogic = type of person who leaps to assumptions and can give logic for this but said logic doesn't seem to make any sense to me and this doesn't seem to be related to their alignment. See: Titus.

I suppose that's fair. My conclusions make sense in my head, but I'm not always able to verbalize them effectively. If I ever express a stance that doesn't make sense, please let me know and I'll try to explain it in a different way.

Also, scum know that staying off it is the accepted scum play and could easily subvert this. Don't be a level one player, if you know what I mean, which you probably don't.

Yes, yes, I know what you mean. No need to be condescending about it.

Now that you mention this, it sorta makes sense. I haven't checked whether Aegor was actually voting you at that point and it'd be pretty weird if he wasn't. I'm trying to upgrade my anti-buddying vigilance but it's so hard. Hell, /this/ could be you buddying me right now, but it probably isn't.

Meh, if you want to call it buddying, knock yourself out. All I know is that I see both you and Aegor expressing suspicion of me for basically the same reason, except your suspicion actually makes sense from a Town point of view while his just looks like he's trying to find any ol' scapegoat to attack so he can say, "See! Look, you guys, I'm Scum-hunting too!" I don't see Town motivation in any of his posts thus far.

also skull is uber town!!1!

Thank you, but unfortunately, the feeling isn't mutual. I'm still waiting for you to impress me, Mollie!

I almost voted you when I saw your first reply to me but I want to talk to Nacho, too.

This has to be at least the third or fourth time you've said, "I want to do such-and-such, but I should consult with Nacho first." With all due respect, what

are

you comfortable doing without Nacho's input? If your hydra partner isn't keeping up, what's stopping you from just playing solo? This is the kind of thing that makes me dislike hydras.

scum are aware of super-saints bc if they get hit by one they're down a member out of nowhere. whereas town generally loses a lot less from suddenly losing one extra member

Oh, right. You worded it funny. I thought you were saying that Scum would be more aware that a Super Saint was in the game at all, which didn't make sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

I reached out to him to help him fix his read on me and he completely shut me down instead of trying to explore my lines of thought. in other words, his plan failed so he's packing up and going back to his QT to hide

What leads you to believe that Scum has daytalk in this game?

[Skullduggery]

1) Voting for a lynch with 10 people on it is hardly "standing in the middle of the road."
2) The middle of the road may be the place where the seeker is unlikely to look. It is not as if the scum on the wagon are magically identified.

I don't think you understand my metaphor. Read the explanation I gave Cephrir in 372 and then let me know if you're still confused.

OMG. You just blatantly strawmanned me. That is not what I asked. And your attempt to hand-wave it away has not gone unnoticed. Read my question, which is quoted right here as well for your convenience.

Um, what? No I didn't. Chill out, dude. You're getting all worked up over nothing.

You asked whether I would count myself as a Scum candidate among the early voters on the Brian wagon. My response was, "Why the fuck would I count myself as a Scum candidate when I know that I'm not Scum?" I don't see what you're confused about.

Another strawman. I never said Brian would be lynched in the future. That is what makes his lynch indefinitely in the future.

By that logic, all of our lynches are indefinitely in the future. What makes Brian's so special?

Voting him for being scum and voting him are two completely different acts. I never said he does not deserve to be voted and I am not saying that now. I have no read on him at the moment.

Again I call bullshit. No vote is cast in a vacuum. You can't say that you don't like my vote on Flandre and then cover your ass by saying that you have no opinion of Flandre. If you don't like my vote on Flandre, that means that you have some degree of confidence that Flandre isn't Scum. Why, then, do you insist that you have no opinion of Flandre while vehemently denouncing my vote on him? Why do you care so much about a vote that has been cast on a player for whom you have no opinion?

That I found the wagon amusing. I have never had any other reactions or emotions to the Brian lynch.

Then why did you say that it told us "plenty"? Just so you can have this pointless little semantics argument with me? Is that your idea of Scum-hunting?

You can sit there and cry about it, I guess.

Do I sound like I'm crying about anything? No, no I'm not. Grow up.

Your vote is not equivalent to a bandwagon, you insufferable fucktard.

Do you think that childish name-calling is going to make the other players

more

willing or

less

willing to listen to you? Serious question.

Seriously; is no one reading Skull's posts?

Do me a personal favor, would you please? Either learn how to use a semicolon correctly or don't use them at all. Thanks.

[Skullduggery]

General knowledge: skulduggery is really good at looking town but has poor scum hunting skills

remember this (for those of you who have not played with skull before

Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? We've played

one

game together.

One

game. And, as I recall, I correctly identified three of the six Scum players in that game without too much trouble. Who the fuck are you to say that I have poor Scum hunting skills? When did you become an expert on my play? All you're doing is talking out your ass.

Again I ask you: What do you hope to accomplish by slandering and discrediting me so early? Are you afraid of people listening to me? If so, why?

My question was whether you would consider the fourth voter on a bandwagon to be among the early voters.

The fourth voter on a ten-person wagon? Sure, that could be considered an early voter. For this scenario, though, I'm not going to consider it because I already know the alignment of that fourth voter. Other players can if they want to, though.

Do not care. Serious answer.

So you don't care whether anyone else believes your laughable case on me? What are you going to do, lynch me all by yourself? You have fun with that.

Commenting on my grammar is a losing battle for you, but I encourage you to pull at that thread if you so desire.

I'm so scared. Maybe I should post a picture of my Master's degree in English to show you how scared I am.

For all intents and purposes, I am playing solo. Your irritation is noted, though and I'll keep your concerns in mind.

Thank you. I'm sorry if I sounded snippy, but as I'm sure you've noticed, certain other players are starting to get on my nerves.

[Skullduggery]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aegor

You're not off the hook yet, Flandre. I'll get back to you. I've been burned for ignoring lurker-Scum before, and I'll be damned if I let it happen again here.

Sorry if my post was offensive or what, but I remember you posted in some game that you were waaay better at looking town than catching scum, and that stuck in my head.

In fact, that's in the book. Not trying to discredit you or whatever but yeah that stuck for me when I think of you...

It's true that I'm better at looking Town than catching Scum, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I have poor Scum-hunting skills as you insisted. I'm not the best Mafia player that ever lived, but that doesn't automatically mean that I suck. Come on now.

Nevertheless, why did you feel that this was such an important point that you had to bring it up twice? What was your intention there?

Mollie is confirmed town.

Because...?

So you don't care whether anyone else believes your laughable case on me? What are you going to do, lynch me all by yourself? You have fun with that.

I'm not sure how I feel about your confrontational attitude here.

Did you miss the part where he called me an insufferable fucktard for asking perfectly legitimate questions? Do you think I'm unjustified in being confrontational with Aegor?

What do you think about Aegor's case on me? He thinks my vote on Flandre was bad even though he has no opinion of Flandre, he thinks my vote on Brian was bad even though he has no opinion of the Brian wagon, and when pressed to elaborate on his reasoning, he resorts to insults and temper tantrums to avoid taking any definitive stances. Does that look like Town play to you?

1) you're not townreading me. There's no way. I haven't said shit to you yet, nacho scumreads me everyday, my play has not been spectacular, so that means you're towning me on the claim alone. I've never seen that.

Why are you hated and why do you stop being hated on Night 2? If you're only going to be hated for two days, why did you claim it so soon? Were you really expecting to be the Day 1 or Day 2 lynch so strongly that you needed to get this information out right away?

[Skullduggery]

Thanks for anulling the first line of this post. I'll gladly chat with you more later, maybe you'll realize how off you are.

Why later? Why not now?

So, I'm thinking Kazekirimaru is kinda town in regards where he's asking people why their reads disagree with them and opening himself up to different ideas.

Can you reword this sentence? I have no idea what you're even saying here.

I kinda feel two scum in {pieguyn, mastin2, zMuffinMan} but it's a gut instinct more than anything. But, I feel like part of the wagon on mastin2 is a burden of proficiency wagon.

Why two Scum specifically? Do you really think Pieguyn/Mastin and Pieguyn/Muffin are legitimate combinations? If so, why?

I feel like there's one scum in {Aegor, Skullduggery}

In regards to my last post not feeling genuine- (not really looking for sympathy, just explaining)- I'm trying to mask my playstyle (PL the metadodger) as well as get a feel for where I fit into the machine.

So even though you acknowledge that my observations about you in 228 are grounded in truth, you still have me as a Scum-read because of it? Why?

Why are you role fishing

skull

I'm not. Why aren't you answering my questions?

[Skullduggery]

I would in fact like to hear from skull on the logic behind asking that question; but it's hardly going to make me flashwagon anyone.

Orcinus said in 521 that he was suspicious of Sangres for Town-reading him based solely on the hated claim, so I thought it would be beneficial for him to expand on the hated claim so we could see whether his suspicion of Sangres was legit or not.

Orc's reaction, however, has me thinking that his hated claim might be fake and he made it just so he could accuse the first person who asked him about it of role-fishing.

[Skullduggery]

Feel free to answer my questions in 545 anytime, Flandre.

How familiar are you with orcinus in the past?

This is my first game with him.

[Skullduggery]

Note to self: Despite Orcinus voluntarily telling everyone that he's hated, he is super touchy about anybody else mentioning his hated claim.

[Skullduggery]

Okay, cool. Pieguy is confirmed Town now as far as I'm concerned. If he flips Scum, I will eat a goddamn phone book.

[Skullduggery]

Metal Sonic does your neighborhood have day talk?

I would also like to know this.

I say we lynch within the neighborhoods it will be funny

I'm down for it. If there is Scum between Metal Sonic, AFB, and Venmar, I'd probably put my money on Venmar. What do you think?

VOTE SKULLDUGG. ?????

Oh, for the love of--

Okay, Orcinus, listen to me and listen good. I'm going to make this as simple and easy-to-understand as possible.

One Day 1, without any provocation, you told us what your role is. You made an announcement in big fucking font that you were hated until Night 2. You

voluntarily

shared this information with us.

You

told us what your role is. How am I role-fishing

when you already told us what your fucking role is?

You've been frothing at the mouth calling me Scum because I inquired about something that everyone knows because

you

already told us about it.

You

made your role general knowledge. How am I Scum for asking about something that everybody in the game already knows about? This is some of the most ass-backwards logic I've ever seen in a Mafia game. Either you're Scum or you're just a delusional idiot. Which is it?

[Skullduggery]

Actually, you know what? Orc's entire case on me is built upon the erroneous belief that I was role-fishing, but how can I be role-fishing if he (presumably) already told us his role? This just reinforces my belief that he was lying when he said he was hated until Night 2. He would only accuse me of role-fishing if his role is different from what he told us it was.

The only question now is why. Why would he lie about being hated until Night 2, and is this lie coming from a Town mindset or a Scum mindset? Anyone want to help me figure this out?

[Skullduggery]

I won't profess to be an expert on Kagami's meta or anything, but for what it's worth, I've never seen Town-Kagami be such a non-presence in a game before.

How familiar are you with orcinus in the past?

This is my first game with him.

Should I be expecting a follow-up to this, Cabd?

By saying he's hated until N2, that makes early wagons against him more cautious. However, he'll still get quickwagoned up to L-1 on D3 for said claim (to test the truth).

You sound confident that this is what's going to happen to him on Day 3 regardless. Why is that?

As for rolefishing, he only mentioned hated. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but can't modifiers such as (hated, miller) also include an actual role?

Skull, I believe you're in the right, but isn't hated pretty non-alignment indicative anyway?

A fair point. Did I ask Orcinus about anything other than his hated claim, though? No. No I did not. Would someone be so kind as to point this out to Orc? He obviously isn't listening to me (probably because he doesn't want to admit that he's wrong).

I've never heard of a player being

temporarily

hated, and I feel like if I understood the reason why he

stops

being hated after an arbitrary amount of time, I'd have a better chance of figuring out whether he's full of shit or not. Orc being so overly defensive about the whole thing doesn't exactly help in that regard.

- If [Metal Sonic] is scum, then AFB is most likely town (and vice versa in a way.)

If I'm correctly reading some of the hints that people have dropped, it sounds like there might be at least three separate Neighborhoods in this game. I originally thought that there had to be one Scum somewhere between you, AFB, and Metal Sonic, but if there are multiple Neighborhoods, then that theory might not be accurate. If there are three Neighborhoods, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one of them was all-Town. What do you think about the abundance of Neighborhoods and do you agree or disagree with my observations in this paragraph?

And your first votes were on both your neighbors? Why happened to love thy neighbor? Apparently you don't have the generous spirit, so I'm being proactive in kicking you out.

I can see why Venmar would think that one person in a three-person Neighborhood is Scum, especially since he presumably didn't know that there were multiple Neighborhoods at the time. When you got your role PM, did you come to a similar conclusion or did you think that there was a good chance that all three of you were Town?

lets recap

skulldug asks me why im hated and why i stop being hated

if this isnt a blatantly stupid attempt at rolefishing for flavor and other shit about my role i dont know what is

This is the dumbest case I've ever read. Stop being god-awful at scumhunting.

Everything Flandre does reads overly cautious. The RVS vote on Brian and then unvote in the next post. Explaining away their posting being scummy by explaining they are intentionally meta-dodging and then joking about deserving a PL for it. Reads very self-aware and concerned and controlled.

Nothing the slot does looks very genuine in general and the suspicions are fairly throw away.

Their attention is on kind of weird places...engaging Orcinus about Skull to no satisfying conclusion instead of discussing their scumreads and all. Silly. Scum. Lynch. Burn.

Why do you care which head this is; if you are unale to distinguish us, then any meta you have on us is probably shit.

AFB, your Towniness is blindingly bright. I will eat

two

phone books if you flip Scum.

Dammit now this town is split into a pro-pieguy lynch camp and pro-mastin lynch camp

Help pls we need to sort this out(this is to everyone by the way)

I'm not interested in lynching either of them today.

Let's not harass poor Flandre just yet.

Why not? Quote at least one thing he's said and explain why it's coming from a Town mindset.

If scum doesn't have daytalk (they probably do), then it's perfect.

What leads you to believe that Scum has day-talk in this game?

As for your proposition, maybe you should go first to show us what you're talking about.

I'm not sure what game you're referring to. Open 537?

Yes, actually. Apparently I had Desp and Varsoon mixed up.

How on earth did you manage to get Varsoon and Desperado mixed up?

Anyway, to answer your question, it was a reference to Calvin & Hobbes Mafia, which was the first game that Varsoon and I played together. He was a Scum Neighborizer who tried to Neighborize me on Night 1 but got redirected. Ever since then, it's been a running joke between us that one day we'd finally get to be in a Neighborhood together so he could whisper sweet nothings into my ear or something.

[Skullduggery]

Mastin probably can think of another reason I would wait before weighing in here.

Care to expand on this? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Also 819 is one of the towniest posts ever. Aegor is basically confirmed town.

Really? I dunno, something seems off about that post. His case on Kaze gives me the same feelings of unease that Kaze's case on Metal Sonic gives you -- he reiterates the things that others have said about Kaze, but in a way that feels more like a grab at Town points than a legitimate attempt to Scum-hunt. What is different between Aegor's 819 and your observations of Kaze's play in 879? I'm entertaining the possibility that Aegor and Kaze are Scum buddies. What do you think?

Who is flandre and is he an alt? Do we know his main?

You've asked this question several times now. Why are you so fixated on knowing who Flandre's main account is? What will that change?

skull didn't ask me anything other than the hated claim, but it's the fact that he asked me to elaborate on the hated claim that makes him scum

Stop trying.

ftr here's the games I looked at
scum: Open 424: Jungle Republic, Mini 1442: House of Cards
town: The Red Wedding

Does he only have three completed games or something? I wouldn't call that a meta-dive.

What's your point? Does that completely invalidate Pieguy's observations on Venmar or something?

And I would never blatantly reaction test someone like that to see if they raged. Far too generic of a thing to look for. Im sure Varsoon is totally capable of being upset when hes scum.
I do WANT him to rage though because I think it will make him more transparent.

Regardless of alignment, have you ever seen Varsoon rage in general? He doesn't seem like a ragey type of player/person to me. What kind of information do you expect to gather from a raging Varsoon?

Can we lynch someone?
I just read like 5 pages with no votes.
I don't care if it's me, the PoE will help town win. Maybe. Actually, my interactions have been shit, so, probably not. Still.

Why do that when we can wait until the deadline sneaks up on us and then scramble to get a lynch through at the last minute while muttering "Oh shit oh shit oh shit" under our collective breaths?

Your vote has been on Mastin for a while. Do you still think he's the best lynch choice for today? Why or why not?

The lack of push in any direction lately is...not something I'm used to working with. Huh.

If it concerns you, why don't you try to change it?

Eh. To think we would have had a wagon to analyze eventually. Ah, well. ._.

This is your reaction to Muffin's fake-out IC claim, and it confuses the hell out of me. What wagon are you talking about here? Muffin's hypothetical future wagon that hasn't happened yet? Are you expressing disappointment because now we won't be able to analyze a wagon on a player who would have been confirmed as an IC in this alternate dimension? What if the IC claim had been real, he had a wagon going on him, and the people voting for him would have done so without knowing that he was an IC ahead of time? What information would you have gleaned from that and why is it any more useful than any other wagon in the game?

Kagami, Venmar, and Cephrir reacted to the IC claim the way that I would expect a Town player to react. You did not. Explain the reasoning behind your reaction, please, because I don't understand where you're coming from at all.

Can you eat a phone book anyways?
I think it would be funny.

Only if you say please.

Because lying to be an ic? Why would he lie? I dunno, reaction test I guess

To me that's a scum move

So you're saying that reaction tests are more likely to come from Scum than Town? Why?

i am confused

why on earth did you do that muffin???????

there is no reason to do so whatsoever

You, Kagami, Venmar, Cephrir, and Kaze all reacted to it, and that gives us something worthwhile. What do you make of those reactions?

No the IC claim is just fake. That's just bad.

Same question to you.

Everyone list your top 4 and we wagon the highest count person?

Aegor, Kaze, Flandre, Macmollie

[Skullduggery]

we have AD trying to get rubedo to flavor claim (presumably AD is informed?)

How do you get an ActionDan Town-read from this? Do you think this has anything to do with his out-of-nowhere insistence that Flandre is Town and we should leave him alone?

[Skullduggery]

I haven't read all these posts yet but I fucking told you pie was town

Venmar is scum for suggesting otherwise

Why did you say that Venmar is Scum for doubting Pieguy's Bodyguard claim? What does Scum-Venmar have to gain by persisting with his suspicion of Pieguy after the claim?

If I were to guess, AD is nigredo and town-aligned.

I'll take your word for it, I guess. I haven't played any of the Xenosaga games, so I'm not familiar with the flavor.

[Skullduggery]

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town. Since then, I've seen a decent number of others continue suspecting him, so I must conclude it's possible.

Possible that Pieguy is actually Scum or possible that other players doubt him? You make it sound like you suspect him just because others do.

Also, yes, this is true, nothing. Pieguy isn't getting lynched. However, I can imagine how it could be useful to scum. It gives them someone to talk about suspecting who will not go away fro quite some time and yet will also not survive the entire game. It keeps him in the public eye for possible lynching if he doesn't get a successful protect off in some arbitrary amount of time.

So you think Pieguy is Town and Venmar is Scum who is setting him up for a future mislynch. Is that correct?

What's your point? Does that completely invalidate Pieguy's observations on Venmar or something?

Basically, I don't think the sample size is large enough. Drawing meta conclusions from so few games is folly. I mean - one, solitary town game? That's not enough.

How much do you consider to be "enough"? If you and I have only played two games together and you act completely different in the second game than you did in the first, is it folly for me to draw conclusions from that? Should I be looking at every game you've ever played before I can consider myself informed?

You seem to be arguing that Pieguy is wasting his time by trying to meta Venmar to figure him out. Why is that? As a Town player, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be appreciative that he did that work for you? Why was your first response to discredit Pieguy's efforts? (And no, you didn't just disagree with Pieguy -- you

discredited

him.)

What do I expect? An active Kagami. The one I'm not seeing. Taking a passive stance and watching the posts go by is not something I've come to expect from you. Granted, there isn't much to speculate about as far as the setup itself, but that never stopped you from prodding around and being proactive before. You feel completely different this game, and I dislike it.

How are these observations about Kagami any more valid than Pieguy's observations about Venmar?

If it concerns you, why don't you try to change it?

Oh, lovely! I had never thought of that! You're so gosh darn smart, you know?

Yeah, sometimes I even amaze myself.

Complaining about low activity while doing nothing to increase activity is scummy. Do you agree? (Metal Sonic is doing the same thing, by the way, and it has not gone unnoticed.)

I didn't like how he went about it. If I were an IC that could activate at-will I figure I'd get a wagon going on myself(purposely, if need be), wait until I got to L-1, pop it off, and then try to pick out the scum from my wagon. Granted, it'd be a bit skewed since I may have to act a bit scummy to get it going, but you could still gather useful information from it. Scum swinging at the low-hanging fruit, for example. But, yeah. That's what I was expressing upset for. Get it?

So your magnificent plan would be to manipulate the other players by intentionally acting scummy so you can gather votes and then yell "Gotcha!" while analyzing the wagon to see who was voting for a player who was acting scummy. And that will help you separate the Town players from the Scum players...how, exactly? Because only Scum players swing for low-hanging fruit? Because Town players never try to lynch the scummiest player first?

although i literally have no idea what skull or aegor's read on me is because i skip their posts entirely lololol

I'm letting others sort you because fuck if I know what to make of your shenanigans.

Mollie has posted emotional reactions to things in the thread that make me feel like she is seeing events from a town motivated lens.

Care to quote some examples of this? I don't see anything of the sort.

Flandre, SSK, and brian are PLs more than anything else to my mind, and I don't think it's useful to entertain a PL while there's still time on the clock.

Why do you consider Brian Skies to be a policy lynch at this point?

(There were myriad ways Mastin could have pushed the neighbourhood angle as scum - completely ignoring them was not one of those ways.)

Do you think that Venmar is Scum for using this approach to base his Scum-read of Metal Sonic?

[Skullduggery]

Aegor, if you think Kaze is Scum, why did you butt in and answer the questions that I asked him (questions that were not addressed to you, might I add) in 1155? Pointing out how reasonable his explanations are isn't exactly something you do to a player you're trying to lynch. I don't think your conviction is as strong as you'd like us to believe.

quit setting up your strawmen in my yard.

But how else are we going to keep the crows away? You should be thanking me!

I'm trying to think of other points in 1153 that require further discussion and questioning, but I'm drawing a blank here. Huh. You might be Town after all.

What's your read of Aegor, Kaze? You two have had some unusual interactions thus far. Tell me what you think of him.

Rubedo give me a sign show me that you're town aligned

Is this seriously all you're going to do today?

^ shit like this is why Aegor is obvious town.

Hes concise, clear, and down to business.

Uh-huh. Never seen a Scum player exhibit

these

attributes before.

oh thank god frat bros are town

I think muffina is too

I hate having to walk eggshells around you but the truth of the matter is that I do. but there is no "fault" for the quantity of my posts.

mastin how the hell did you townread us off one freakin' post holy shit? that's a cause for concern.

town looking posts

Ehhhhh...I think I know where you're coming from, but I'm just not seeing the same thing that you're seeing, I guess. Why wouldn't Scum-Mollie make those posts?

Brian would be a PL because he hasn't done anything at all.

Oh yeah? I can think of a couple players who have done less than Brian. Are they policy lynches too?

I will agree, however, that Brian keeping his vote on himself for damn near the entire game is pants-on-head retarded and he needs to do something about that soon.

i want to lynch from this group today: {flandre, MS, kagami, cabd, kaze, cephrir} roughly in order of most to least desired lynches

Gonna sheep this list forever, k?

And that's why your vote is still on Sangres, right?

You seem to have a majority, you could run me up to L-1 like nothing. Yet, a wagon hasn't actually happened. Why do you think? I have my own suspicions as to the reason.

People are reluctant to wagon or even vote lurky players.

And when they do, certain players try to shake the wagon apart by attacking the votes on it. For added bonus points, see if you can guess who I'm talking about!

Need a hint?

Spoiler:

It's you.

Give up?

Spoiler:

It's you.

[Skullduggery]

To answer skull: yes

Faaaaaantastic.

What's your read of Aegor, Kaze? You two have had some unusual interactions thus far. Tell me what you think of him.

Not sure. First time playing with him. I hadn't noticed him too much until recently. His "I like everything you said but I still think you're scum" attitude is odd but could easily be town paranoia.

How is it relevant that this is your first time playing with him? Why was that important enough to be worth mentioning up front?

He was correct about one hypothetical scenario. Acknowledging that is not "pointing out how reasonable his explanations are."

Here you are calling it reasonable twice:

Spoiler:

1) Playing scummily and having people vote you for playing scummily are very different
2) Even reasonable wagons can yield nice info

The plan sounds very reasonable.

So? Your "plan" was what any reasonable IC would do if he were not brain-dead. Giving you towncred for a total hypothetical with an optimal strategy is like giving you towncred for telling us to lynch scummy players.

Do you always try to drown out your stances in arguments over semantics or is that only something you do when you draw Scum?

Your vote deserved to be attacked. It was terrible. I did not attempt to "shake the wagon apart;" I simply stated the obvious. I have nothing against an FS wagon at all.

If you think that my initial Flandre vote was terrible, you're more than welcome to be wrong about that. I won't hold it against you. What I want to know is why you would attack a vote that you agree with. What was the intention there? What was the desired result of this attack? Were you just stirring the pot to see what would happen? Because right now all I see is this:

Step 1: Attack vote on Flandre despite (supposedly) having no objections to Flandre getting votes.
Step 2: ?????
Step 3: PROFIT!

AFB seems convinced that you're Town, Aegor, and I'd love to be able to trust his judgment on this, but I am having such a difficult time overlooking all the illogical things that you say.

[Skullduggery]

I want Aegor to die so bad I can

taste

it...but it doesn't look like it's happening today, so...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flandre

That's L-2. Do we want to give Gooner a chance to catch up or just let him worry about that during the night phase?

[Skullduggery]

So you don't care whether anyone else believes your laughable case on me? What are you going to do, lynch me all by yourself? You have fun with that.

I'm not sure how I feel about your confrontational attitude here.

Did you ever figure out how you feel about this?

[Skullduggery]

I want Aegor to die so bad I can

taste

it...but it doesn't look like it's happening today, so...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flandre

That's L-2. Do we want to give Gooner a chance to catch up or just let him worry about that during the night phase?

This feels like a bus post because of the outright assumption that this lynch will go through. Not "well let's see what X claims" or "Let's see what they claim at L-1" or "We need to wagon Flandere now in case the claim is good and we have to compromise elsewhere"

Flat "Should we let goner have time before we lynch flandere?"

Seriously? Okay, yeah, maybe I was jumping the gun a little, but do you really think anybody other than Flandre is going to be the lynch at this point?

Let's say Flandre actually does claim something that knocks our collective socks off. Realistically, who else replaces him on the chopping block?

In case you've forgotten, I've also been suspicious of Flandre for pretty much the entire game. Don't act like my vote for him came out of nowhere.

[Skullduggery]

Skull, you're forgetting claims don't matter.

Tell that to Cabd.

[Skullduggery]

Who is Flandre scarlet, why are we lynching him and is this a policy lynch

I won't speak for everyone else, but I'm not viewing it as a policy lynch. I want to lynch Flandre because I think he's Scum.

Yo, Metal Sonic.
Hammer this.

UNVOTE: \
Fuck you, he's stupid enough to do it.

Stupid enough to do what? Hammer Scum?

Someone explain why Flandre is being wagoned to my lazy ass.

All you have to do is ISO Flandre and read his "contributions" to the game thus far. Yes, yes, I know you just said that you're lazy, but it's only 14 posts and they're all short. They're also non-committal, fence-sitting, devoid of substantial content, and posted with the intention of looking busy without actually making an effort to find Scum or help Town win the game. The jump from 1183 ("Gee, I wonder why I don't have a wagon on me yet when I've been acting

~so~

scummy.") to 1376 ("Oh shit, there actually is a wagon on me! Abort! Abort!") reads like Scum who tried to get cheeky only to watch his plan backfire in his face.

I'm concerned about the absence of a counter-wagon

Does the lack of a counter-wagon make it any less likely that Flandre is Scum? If so, how?

I'll also accept MS. I really don't want to see that guy make it to LyLo at any rate.

It's a bit early in the game to be thinking about LYLO, don't you think?

People I would be fine lynching:

Kaze
FS
Skull on a policy basis

Right. "Policy." If you're Town, you want me gone just because you don't like me (which is just a

fantastic

reason to want to lynch someone, by the way). If you're Scum, you want me gone because I'm one of the only players here who sees through your bullshit. I just hope that when you inevitably kill me, the rest of Town will be smart enough to realize that I was on the right track.

mastin, venmar, skull, AFB, orcinus, AD, varsoon
aegor, mollie, sangres
flandre, kaze
brian-slot
cephrir
cabd

to be lynched D4 list: pieguy

IF THERE IS A GOD, THESE PEOPLE WILL BE VIGGED list: METAL SONIC, MAFIASSK (in that order)
(MS because even if he isn't scum, he has a secret scum win con and mafiassk because he's probably town but mafiassk)

Just so there's no confusion, are you listing everyone from Town at the top to Scum at the bottom? Because if so, I have to ask why you have a Town read on Aegor and I when you haven't been reading our posts (1096).

It's possible (though not particularly probable) that both wagons were on scum. I don't think both wagons were on town, though. The dynamic just seems to weird for that.

If this is what you think, then wouldn't it make more sense to keep your focus on Metal Sonic and Flandre? Why shift your attention to Cephrir when you sound confident that there's Scum in MS/Flandre?

Because I don't feel like lynching them.

Even though you think one or both of them are Scum?

Kagami

Pure survivalism at this point.

Let's assume for a moment that you're Town. Do you see Scum on your wagon? If so, who?

Hammering without a claim on day one of a large is so fucking stupid, I refuse to believe you think it's a good idea.

So you're fine with being on Flandre's lynch wagon, but only if he claims first and only if you find the claim unsatisfactory. Is that right?

[Skullduggery]

Considering how unwilling Flandre has been to provide us with anything of substance thus far, what kind of claim were you expecting from him?

Macmollie had already stated intent to hammer and he was within prodding distance when you unvoted. Why not just keep him at L-1 for a little bit longer? He would have been forced to say

something

after being prodded, but now that he's no longer in immediate danger of being hammered, he can go back to lurking his way out of trouble. You gave him an easy way out. Why? Did the thought of a quick-hammer really unsettle you that much?

I assumed that you were voting for him because you thought he was Scum. But now, no claim = no conviction?

[Skullduggery]

Metal sonic is legitimately that unaware of the game state that I have no doubt he would have quickhammered.

What gives you the impression that Metal Sonic isn't paying attention to the game?

I have zero faith in his ability to think clearly before hammering.

Then why not just say something to him about it? If he was paying enough attention to see Varsoon's "Hey, Metal Sonic, go ahead and hammer" post, then I'm sure he would have also seen a post from you saying, "Hey, Metal Sonic, don't even think about hammering Flandre until we get a claim out of him."

And as you can see, I'm not the only one that thought that way.

Are you saying that everyone who jumped off the Flandre wagon did so for the same reasons that you did?

[Skullduggery]

skull stop pestering cabd plz. imminent signs of early meltdown cos he doesn't know exactly what is going on <---- town

I'm pestering Cabd because I want to figure out his intentions here. 1271 raised some red flags because it looked like he already knew that Flandre was going to flip Scum and was planning to push me as his buddy tomorrow. That theory clashed with his unvote to prevent a hammer, so "Operation: Pester Cabd" commenced so I could sort this out.

Right now I'm thinking that 1271 was just a case of Town paranoia. His outbursts in 1414 and 1418 look like frustrated Town to me.

but cabd just wanted to prevent a lynch on some1 who is probably town from happening

You think Flandre is probably Town? Why?

No but seriously, the game state has now changed, and at least two people are now calling me scum for preventing a quickhammer on day one, and you're trying to become the third.

Am I one of those two people, Cabd? If so, where did I ever call you Scum?

Good news, my read-through should be done tomorrow morning at some point. If you lot want to start moving to end the day you're more than welcome to.

Got anything interesting to share before the day ends?

[Skullduggery]

If you're waiting for a claim from Flandre, you do realize it's never going to happen, right?

ok the real reason why i cant write town looking posts is because of a phobia when i first joined mafia that i got nightkilled n1 multiple times (too town and scumhunting too good) so i had to adopt this shitty posting style and it stuck.

...are you being serious with this?

should ISO (aka i dunno)
___
cephrir
actiondan
mafiassk
venmar

pieguy

I find it difficult to believe that anybody could have Pieguy in the null pile at this point in the game. Either you believe his claim and think he's Town or you don't believe his claim and think he's Scum. Why is Pieguy still null for you?

[Skullduggery]

If I can be the devil's advocate for a moment here...

VOTE: Kagami

Pure survivalism at this point.

Why would Flandre, in an act of survivalism, add momentum to a counter-wagon

on his own partner

when he could have just as easily joined the equally viable Metal Sonic, Muffin, or Mastin wagons?

Also why the hell did Varsoon die. I was sort of expecting Sangres or maybe Dan.

This was pretty clearly Town-Varsoon, but he wasn't making enough of an impact to draw the attention of a protective role. That's my theory.

Btw, both Cabd and Metal Sonic are incredibly likely scum.

What would be the motivation for Scum-Cabd to try to disband the wagon on Flandre the way that he did? Flandre was a Goon who had been playing pretty scummily and was likely to be lynched regardless. Why would Cabd incriminate himself to protect that?

As for Metal Sonic, I think he's Town because of an observation I had during the Night phase. Remember how Metal Sonic repeatedly asked who Flandre's main account was during Day 1? If Metal Sonic and Flandre were both Scum, don't you think that this was a question that he would have asked Flandre during the pre-game? There are three possibilities:
1.) Metal Sonic is Town.
2.) Metal Sonic is Scum and the Scum team didn't have pre-game talk for whatever reason.
3.) Metal Sonic is Scum and he kept asking about Flandre's identity just to throw us off.

The first possibility seems like the most likely to me.

Aegor, Skullduggery, Gooner.

We didn't discuss outing this. But, I think it needs to be done.

It's fine. I don't mind.

Just looking at our neighborhood, here's how I'd list my neighbors from most likely to be Scum to least likely to be Scum:
Aegor
Macmollie
Gooner
Sangres

[Skullduggery]

Why would Flandre, in an act of survivalism, add momentum to a counter-wagon on his own partner when he could have just as easily joined the equally viable Metal Sonic, Muffin, or Mastin wagons?

Because Flandre was obviously going to die and this was likely just some last minute distancing.

Distancing by "trying" to counter wagon a partner that wouldn't get lynched to buy them towncred?

Alright, fair points. Maybe it was a dumb question, but I didn't get the impression that Flandre knew he was doomed at that point. (If he did, why would he give us 1450?)

Rolenames are not a defense in any way, shape or form; they never have been, and they never will be.

Not voting yet, but Kagami is scum.

Except we don't know what Kagami's role name is. Do you have something you'd like to share with the rest of the class?

Took a quick skim throught the FS wagon. In addition to Kagami, possible bus votes include Skull, Kaze, mastin? (I don't know what to make of that weird bullshit, could see town playing around or cheeky scum in a void but still think mastin is scum independent of this issue so yeah)

If Kagami is indeed scum I feel a little better about Kaze (why the hell do you vote hop to your scumbuddy there?)

You say that Kaze is a possible bus vote, but a Scum flip from Kagami would mean that Kaze is Town? What? Take me through your logic here, because I don't see how that makes sense.

Kagami is crack under pressure feel free to lynch

At what point did this "crack" happen?

WIFOM alert: possible that scum leave pieguyrn alive(if town) so town can do the job for them?

They'd need to get rid of me first, because I'll fight any attempt to lynch Pieguy as vigorously as I can.

What are the different hoods again?

1: [AFB, Venmar, Metal Sonic]
2: [Skullduggery, Sangres, Gooner, Macmollie, Aegor]

I think there's a third neighborhood, but as far as I know, its existence has only been hinted so far. They can reveal themselves if they want to.

I'll agree that Gooner is somebody I don't feel town from. I hate to call it a gut read but it kind of is. Specifically though his whole "AFB likely SK slipped" and then backpedaling into "WELL its only relevant if there IS an SK" when I OMGUS'd him about it felt like lolscum.

Is your read of Gooner shaped by Brian's play in any way? It's kind of difficult to overlook how apathetic he was about this whole game, and I have a hard time reading it as anything but Town-apathy.

Also, who is the only player in this playerlist who would kill Varsoon N1?
SKULL SKULL SKULL

What makes you say this? What led you to the conclusion that I'm the

only

person who would want to kill Varsoon?

This was pretty clearly Town-Varsoon, but he wasn't making enough of an impact to draw the attention of a protective role. That's my theory.

And this sort of theory is why you're scum.

That makes no sense. How does this incriminate me specifically?

Skull could be scum. I thought the "Devils Advocate, but why would Flandre bus Kagami" comment was scummy.

That possibility didn't make sense to me at the time, so I inquired about it. That's it. If asking potentially-silly questions makes me scummy, then I'd be the Day 1 lynch all the time every day always because that's kind of what I do.

In this same post, you told Sangres to "look at the big picture." Why aren't you following your own advice here? Why are you so ready to throw out

everything else

that I've done in this game so you can focus on one stupid little question and call me Scum because of it?

If you go back and look at day 1, you'll see a lot of posturing and poking and prodding among our neighborhood.

"A lot"? Quote examples of this, please. As far as I remember, I only brought it up once (228)?

I did a reach-out in the QT thread, pointing out that Skull's scumreads have been very reactive (sort of in the same way that pie's scumreads were, but it was more of a slow boil in some cases) which doesn't look like any sort of effort at a balanced read of the game.

You did indeed, but I thought you were trying to help me. Why would you bring this to my attention if you thought I was Scum?

I ISO'd skull. I dont think Ive ever seen a worse quote stripper.

Do you mean that I'm bad at it or that I do it a lot? Either way...

Who made the comment about SkullDug being town cause their meta would be hard to fake?

Kagami.



Aaaaaand I just saw the hammer on Page 76. Gonna post this now before the thread gets locked. Will keep reading and respond to the last few pages if we're still in twilight by then.

[Skullduggery]

Unless Cabd was lying about his Night 1 results for whatever reason, we know that Pieguy protected Sangres on the same night that ActionDan and SSK performed an action on Sangres. Pieguy was one-shot Bulletproof, which means that one of those two tried to kill Sangres on Night 1.

VOTE: MafiaSSK

Metal Sonic what was that shit about 3 neighborhoods?

Um skull said something about 3 neighbors hoods idk, but there are 8 confirmed neighbors so my point stands

Two neighborhoods are confirmed and Cabd hinted at being in a neighborhood too. Don't quite remember where, but I can go digging through his ISO to find it if you really want me to.

Nacho, I still want an answer to this:

Spoiler:

Also, who is the only player in this playerlist who would kill Varsoon N1?
SKULL SKULL SKULL

What makes you say this? What led you to the conclusion that I'm the

only

person who would want to kill Varsoon?

[Skullduggery]

skull are you softclaiming a neighborhood yes or no

Are you asking me if I'm in more than one neighborhood? If so, no.

Like, I don't see SSK as scum in spite of the potentially-incriminating result, and I believe Cabd said that looking at SSK's iso made it plausible for him to be town with that result.

Which means that you think ActionDan tried to kill Sangres on Night 1, right? Why is ActionDan-Scum more plausible than SSK-Scum in your eyes?

The SK's clearly not someone who'd be wise to leash (both sources of kills have been tremendously anti-town), so they're basically an extra scumbag, just one without interactive tells.

You make it sound like you know which of the Night 2 kills was committed by our theoretical Serial Killer. Do you?

Not exactly sure how, but...SSK is town. Dan's obviously town, too.

...what.

Then who burned up Pieguy's Bulletproof on Night 1? It had to be either SSK or ActionDan. (I'll only entertain the possibility of Ninjas and Strongmen and the like if SSK flips Town.)

Do you think it's possible that SSK is going out of his way to replicate his Town play to fool you since you seem to be skilled at reading him?

If I'm correctly reading some of the hints that people have dropped, it sounds like there might be at least three separate Neighborhoods in this game. I originally thought that there had to be one Scum somewhere between you, AFB, and Metal Sonic, but if there are multiple Neighborhoods, then that theory might not be accurate. If there are three Neighborhoods, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one of them was all-Town. What do you think about the abundance of Neighborhoods and do you agree or disagree with my observations in this paragraph?

What hints were these that led you to think 3 neighborhoods?

UNVOTE

Already answered this in 2007.

I just ISO'd Cabd. 722 is the post that made me think that Cabd was in a neighborhood too.

pie was essentially a VT after the save

Pieguy was one-shot Bulletproof, not one-shot Bodyguard. Once his Bulletproof was burned up on night one, he was still a Bodyguard.

17. Skullduggery- dunno. might be scum just bc of neighborhoods; I hate that logic but the flandre possible slip makes this more reasonable

What "flandre possible slip" are you referring to?

she was moaning about being the lynch today in the neighborhood last night I would think if she were town she would here getting her last licks in and scumhunting like a mo fo but she isn't doing that.

Patience. This is my normal level of activity. I'm not the kind of player who makes a dozen posts a day.

[Skullduggery]

The post snagres pointed out where he seemed to know one of the neighborhoods (maybe).

Oh, right, that. I thought you were referring to something that I said.

Which means that you think ActionDan tried to kill Sangres on Night 1, right? Why is ActionDan-Scum more plausible than SSK-Scum in your eyes?

lmao. I can't tell if this is busywork or not. in either case you should feel bad presenting this as if mastin is low enough to think it

Actually, I don't feel bad about it at all. From my point of view, it's pretty obvious that either you or SSK tried to kill Sangres on Night 1, and it seems extremely unlikely that it was you. If Mastin is going to assert SSK's innocence, that means she's going to have to make a dang good argument that it was you instead.

Which means that you think ActionDan tried to kill Sangres on Night 1, right? Why is ActionDan-Scum more plausible than SSK-Scum in your eyes?

No. In fact, I scumread Kaze for pulling this exact stunt. (And to some extent, Cephrir, too.)

You don't seem too willing to analyze Cabd's Night 1 actions too closely. Why is that? It's difficult to ignore something so incriminating.

Then who burned up Pieguy's Bulletproof on Night 1? It had to be either SSK or ActionDan. (I'll only entertain the possibility of Ninjas and Strongmen and the like if SSK flips Town.)

Or pie got killed N1. As I said, that's my MO as scum. It could be someone else's MO, here, too. I just don't know whose.

Considering everything that happened on Day 1 (Pieguy's Bodyguard claim, ActionDan's attempts to find Rubedo, Sangres' overall strong play, etc.), I cannot fathom the Scum team viewing Pieguy as a bigger kill priority than Sangres. (I suppose it's possible, but just not very probable.)

[Skullduggery]

SSK is Scum.

Mastin is the Serial Killer.

We're probably looking at a four-person Scum team, so there's two more Scum in {Aegor, Kaze, Orcinus, Macmollie, Gooner}

Everyone else is Town.

[Skullduggery]

Could you please explain how the hell you are getting these reads?

Process of elimination, mostly. I have Town reads (of varying strengths) on everyone except for SSK, Mastin, and the five I mentioned in 2164 (Aegor, Kaze, Orcinus, Macmollie, Gooner).

Also, with 15 players alive, do you find it odd at all that three of your top five scum suspects are in your five-person neighborhood? And that you have included in your scum list every single person in your neighborhood who is neither you nor the living player closest to conftown? It seems like you have lost perspective a little bit.

I don't find it odd. Do you think everyone in our neighborhood is Town?

Sonic looks the scummiest of the other neighbourhood to me. He made a potential slip regarding three neighbourhoods and he hasn't done anything other than that.

No, Metal Sonic was only repeating what I said. I'm the one who originally brought up the idea that there could be three neighborhoods because I interpreted Cabd's 722 as him claiming to be a neighbor as well. He wasn't in my neighborhood and he wasn't in the AFB/Venmar/Metal Sonic neighborhood, so I thought there was a third. Obviously his flip shows that I was wrong.

Why do you want an answer to that?

Because your reason doesn't make sense. If you call me Scum for a reason that doesn't make sense, don't I have the right to ask for an explanation?

You said I was Scum because I'm the only one who would kill Varsoon on Night 1. Why am I the only one who would want to Kill Varsoon on Night 1? I don't think my bewilderment here is unreasonable.

But SSK is town. And those pushing him as confscum are bad.

You've also admitted that your Town-read of SSK is based on personal experience, meta, gut, and other factors that can't be quantified. You're a well-respected player and your words do carry a lot of weight, but is it reasonable for you to expect us to believe your word over the provable actions that have happened in the game -- especially when your alignment is still such a big question?

(Aside from zMuff's insane theory of SSK being a scum-tracker.)

Why is this such an unlikely possibility?

[Skullduggery]

Mastin is the Serial Killer.

I'd like your explanation for this in particular.

Mainly because I've been kicking around that idea.

For starters, there's 2047, where Mastin seems to already know which of the Night 2 kills was performed by the Serial Killer. I pointed out the pertinent bit here:

Spoiler:

The SK's clearly not someone who'd be wise to leash (both sources of kills have been tremendously anti-town), so they're basically an extra scumbag, just one without interactive tells.

You make it sound like you know which of the Night 2 kills was committed by our theoretical Serial Killer. Do you?

Interestingly, super-thorough Mastin chose not to respond to this particular point.

There's also the fact that she has spent an inordinate amount of time musing about the Serial Killer on Day 3, which indicates that she's using the approach of, "I'm going to talk a lot about the Serial Killer so no one will suspect that the Serial Killer is actually me." Most of her talk about the Serial Killer today seems unprompted and preemptive.

Look at her overall play too. It's been somewhat...distant, I guess you could say. Unexplainable reads coming from "gut" that are only given the bare minimum in terms of explanation, as if she wants to keep her options open. At the same time, it doesn't look like the kind of behavior that a group-Scum player would demonstrate. It's like she's intentionally trying to be

just

Towny enough to avoid being lynched and

just

scummy enough to avoid being night-killed, which is exactly the type of position that a Serial Killer would want to be in.

Finally, others have mentioned that Mastin's opinion of this game's Serial Killer doesn't jive with her normal opinion of Serial Killers (but since I have no firsthand experience in that regard, that's only a minor piece of evidence to me).

I think there is more than enough evidence that points to Mastin being the Serial Killer.

[Skullduggery]

I think that it would be pretty dumb for mastina to be all ack! ack! ack! the sk is BAD! lynch him! only to be the actual sk.

Mastin hasn't actually been saying that, though. It's mostly been a lot of idle chatting about the SK and presenting possible scenarios with no real definitive stances on what we should do with them.

I mean he is telling us that the sk is unleashable and it seems like a stretch for him to set himself up like that if he was caught out. if mastina is scum it is grpscum IMO

In what way do you think Mastin is "setting himself up"?

I do recognize the possibility that I'm wrong and Mastin really is group-Scum, but I'm just not getting that vibe from her posts. She seems anti-Town, but independently so. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this for now since this seems to be a matter of perspective for both of us.

I don't find it odd. Do you think everyone in our neighborhood is Town?

You should find it odd. And you should also realize that your question is a straw man. Think about it.

Cool story, bro. Do you think everyone in our neighborhood is Town? I wasn't aware that I was asking you a difficult question.

i havne' tbeen seeing a lot of things that I expect from fery

Like what?

Because the entire reason for suspecting SSK is him being at sangres N1, and pie dieing N2 as a 1x-BP Bodyguard, and people making the logical deduction that pie's BP was used N1 protecting sangres and that one of the others visiting sangres was killing. If that's not true, then there's no reason for SSK to be scum at all. Thinking he's scum-tracking-sangres is just, well, off.

Because it doesn't make sense for Scum to both track and kill Sangres on the same night, right? Which means that either SSK is telling the truth about tracking Sangres on Night 1 or he's lying about that and taking a huge risk by saying that Sangres didn't perform an action when he has no idea whether Sangres has a night action or not.

Alright, I think I understand now.

UNVOTE:

(Quoting this as one more reason Skull's post was BS, by the way. )

If it's any consolation, eliminating the Serial Killer isn't my top priority right now. You can stick around until Day 5 or 6 after you've stabbed a couple Scumbags for us.

(The SK speculation is dumb without seeing if two kills a night persist. Existence of a SK also complicates the fact there was only 1 kill Night 1.)

Pieguy was one-shot Bulletproof, he died on Night 2, and there was only one kill on Night 1 while there were two kills on Night 2. What do you

think

happened?

[Skullduggery]

SSK could still be Scum, but not for the reasons that I originally suspected. I want to sort something with Metal Sonic first:

Question: is it common for a town neighbor to also have an additional night action? I usually think that town neighbors are just vanilla with qt. this question is important

Why was this question so important to you? Did you receive the answer that you were looking for?

I don't think Pieguy blocked two kills in a row. At the very least wait for Night 3 to confirm it before you heave this speculation around >.>

Where did his one-shot Bulletproof go then?

I still don't trust Mastin, but I think there's a good chance that she's right about the Mafia team shooting Pieguy outright on Night 1. (Look back through our conversation from today to see how I reached this conclusion.)

Guys I actually think Metal Sonic is the best lynch right now..

maybe

i don't believe mafiassk is town, though

do you?

What happened between 2228 and this post?

[Skullduggery]

Nobody hammer until Metal Sonic answers me, please.

[Skullduggery]

Why was this question so important to you? Did you receive the answer that you were looking for?

Its important to him because I softed/trolled/fakeclaimed jailkeeper/commute-giver/doctor in the QT.

Question is, is he posturing about this for town points or is he legitimately trying to scumhunt.

Noted. Thanks.

I still want Metal Sonic to answer in his own words, though.

[Skullduggery]

Ap was (fake) crumbing something in neighborhood qt I dunno if it's a lure or what because they can use edit or delete button

But they he voted kagami day 2 right off the gate so I (and many others) took that as a crumb so we sheeped and as it turned out we've been had

When did he make these crumbs -- Night 1 or Night 2 (or both)? You make it sound like he crumbed something before Kagami was lynched, but you didn't post 2058 until Day 3, which leads me to believe that he continued crumbing on Night 2 after Kagami had been mislynched. Is that correct?

Who are the "many others" that were supposedly fooled by AFB? I certainly didn't detect any role-related knowledge or information in his case against Kagami, and only two people (you and Venmar) saw his crumbs in the neighborhood. Two people isn't what I would consider "many others."

What does Kagami's mislynch tell you about AFB? Do you think his neighborhood crumbs are alignment-indicative?

You sound certain that AFB's crumbs were fake. Why is that?

[Skullduggery]

Okay, that works for me.

See, I've been mulling over a theory that SSK might actually be a Rolecop who investigated Sangres and I, saw that we don't have night actions, and made up the Tracker claim because it sounded like a more Town-centric role and he wouldn't be taking any huge risks when it came time to report his results. No, I don't know for certain whether Sangres is a regular ol' Neighbor or not, but at this point, it seems like a pretty safe assumption. (I'm not even gonna consider whatever happened between ActionDan and Sangres because that probably wouldn't have interfered with a Rolecop's Night 1 investigation, so it's not important anyway.) Metal Sonic's 2058 looked like it might have been an attempt to help his theoretical partner SSK narrow down his investigation targets by getting the Neighbors to claim whether or not they had any additional night actions. I asked Metal Sonic all those questions so I could see if that theory was plausible or not.

Of course, that was before I knew about AFB's soft-claiming in his Neighborhood, which explained a lot. Combine that with Metal Sonic's subsequent responses and it does look like 2058 was coming from a Town mindset after all. So, that theory is shot down and Metal Sonic is still Town.

It doesn't clear SSK, though. If we assume that Mastin is the Serial Killer (and I'm going full-force on that theory until we receive convincing evidence that this isn't the case), it makes total sense for him to try to kill Pieguy on Night 1. (If you don't know why this makes sense, you haven't been paying attention.) That would mean that Varsoon was the Scum-kill on Night 1, which means that it now makes sense for Scum-SSK to perform a non-killing action on Sangres on Night 1. Like, say, a Rolecop investigation.


VOTE: MafiaSSK

I don't know why I hate the above post so very much.

Because you don't understand my moonlogic methods, so like a true classy gentleman, you hate them simply because you don't understand them. That would be my guess.

Because you're scum, and Skull is (or...at least, might be?) a scumbuddy who you're seeing their post as being more scummy than it actually is? There are plenty of Skull's posts to be suspicious of, but the one you have an issue with is utterly and entirely null; I can't see how anyone would have an issue with that particular post.

If you really think I'm Scum, feel free to stab the bajeesus out of me tonight. I highly doubt any protective roles are going to try to stop you. Nothing bad will happen to you. I promise.

[Skullduggery]

Gooner, why did you give Aegor a free pass to Townsville so readily in your wagon analysis in 2365, 2366, and 2368?

SSK tracked us on N1, so therefore we weren't the scum NK target. That means that improbable as it sounds Varsoon was the NK target.

And that points to Skull.

I'll ask you one more time: Why does Varsoon's death incriminate me? Maybe if I ask this same question enough times, you'll actually answer me.

Ascetic reflexively RB's actions targeting them, yeah?

Anyone have their ability inexplicably fail lately?

What purpose does this question serve? We already know that Cephrir was an Ascetic.

Nacho strongly thinks Skull, and also sees a Skull/Varsoon connection.

Since Nacho doesn't seem to want to explain this nonsensical connection between Varsoon and I, can

you

try to explain the reasoning behind it? This is starting to piss me off.

I dont think mastin would have shot Cephrir last night, I think he would have shot me if he were SK.

Is SK-Mastin shooting Cephrir unlikely simply because you think you were a bigger priority or do you have other reasons for suspecting that SK-Mastin would not have shot Cephrir?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5695358

I can't get over how much vomit this post brings to my mouth though ^

Yeah, my Rolecop-SSK theory was wrong. Shockingly, I have been known to be wrong from time to time while playing Mafia. Are you expecting a formal apology from me or something?

[Skullduggery]

at the very least, i'm not interested in guessing what is or isn't the case here since it seems irrelevant except for people who are assuming one of {AD, mafiassk} must be scum who performed a kill on sangres - and they're dumb

People who deduce that either ActionDan or SSK must be Scum because of Cabd's Watcher results are dumb...even though you ultimately agree with the conclusions that those players reached and supported the SSK lynch.

What happened between 2228 and this post?

. . . . . ?

uh

nothing?

So SSK went from being "Yeah, he's totally a Town Tracker who is tracking people he suspects" to "Yeah, he's totally Scum and we should definitely lynch him" in the span of a few pages, but nothing changed between those few pages to cause such a jarring shift in your opinion of SSK. Sounds legit.

i think mafiassk is scum and i don't think he was trying to kill sangres

so tell me why mafiassk goes on and on about me being scum D1, questions pieguy about voting flandre, doesn't mention sangres at all (or skull) and then tracks sangres N1 and skull N2?

fuck, tell me why mafiassk completely dropped the

only

scum read he was really confident about D1 in order to track... what? sangres? then skull? seriously? because he found skull scummy?

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah mafiassk is totally a town tracker tracking his suspects

Unvote

because i have to :<

"Maybe if I point out how Towny SSK's night actions seem, we can dispel this wagon on him."

also, none of those explain where your read on me went, mafiassk, coz you were really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really fucking confident about it D1 and i don't think a single night phase after a scum lynch that i wasn't on and even spoke out against was going to change your mind about me

mastin i dare you to fucking read what mafiassk wrote about me D1 and tell me you think what he's saying is genuine or makes sense here

"Wait, no, it's not working. Oh well, I tried."

VOTE: MAFIASSK

will my vote remain this time? who knows?

VOTE: zMuffinMan

ISO MafiaSSK and look at his interactions with Muffin. Lurky, noncommittal SSK spends an inordinate amount of time addressing Muffin, and all of those interactions carry the pungent aroma of Scum buddies distancing. I'm not the only one who smells it, am I?

[Skullduggery]

Is it really just skull/aegor? Aegor maf, skull sk?

Don't get too comfortable yet. I'm afraid my flip will cause you nothing but disappointment.

I also doubt mastin shoots Cephrir for reasons even mastin pointed out (self wifom ahoy): the Ceph kill looks like something mastin would make.

So do you think that Cephrir was killed (in part) to frame Mastin? Who do you think would be most likely to do that? Looking at the players who would benefit most from Mastin getting lynched, I'd probably be at the top of that list since I've been accusing her of being the SK for a good while now. You've also (correctly) pointed out that I'm not the SK, though, so where does that leave us?

If you -did- have an action, he'd have to try and guess what it was or you'd -know- he was scum and enter a 1v1 with him. It makes a lot of sense for SSK to just real claim either way IMO.

If you Rolecop someone and the result you get is "Neighbor," you can infer that they don't have a night action.

And yes, I agree that it was a cockamamie theory in retrospect. If I was SSK's partner, though, what would I have to gain by presenting the possibility that he's a Rolecop, hammering him, and then immediately being proven wrong? What would even be the point of that? (And before you ask: No, I'm not satisfied with your explanation at the bottom of 2506.)

I mean I guess you were townreading MS throughout the game? but the phrasing here really bothers me "guess he wa stown after all" sounds like you knew he was town the whole time.

I had a decently strong Town-read on Metal Sonic, but then he said something that made me question it. We conversed a bit and I decided that I was just being paranoid and my Town-read on Metal Sonic was probably still accurate.

In a way, yeah, I did still think he was Town even as we chatted. I just didn't see the harm in putting that read to the test.

Cheeky gif, made right after a bus vote? Just makes this feel sorta bussy to me.

So you're saying that I'm scummy for posting a silly gif of MC Hammer. That's what you're saying, right? Okay, cool, just checking.

Skull even defacto assumed that this is what I thought was scummy which tells me that Skull was very conscious about that prediction specifically.

I was wrong. I don't like being wrong. Do you like being wrong?

Why is Skull going out of the way to appease Cephrir here instead of being upset or prodding back like she seems to have a tendency to do?

What? Read my response again. I called him a classy gentleman for hating something that he doesn't understand. That's a little something called "sarcasm."

If mafia shot zMuffin and he lived, they might strongly suspect he is the SK. Thats why I said I need to look and see if Skull's pressure on zMuffin was sudden.

I can tell you right now that it was sudden because I didn't suspect Muffin until SSK's flip.

[Skullduggery]

Yeah, I think I've seen enough.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aegor

If today ends up being a choice between Aegor and I (which seems to be the direction we're going), then it should be obvious where I stand. I know I'm Town and I've wanted Aegor dead since Day 1.

Until today, no one articulated any real suspicion of me anyway.

I think you're forgetting someone.

I don't see why so many people are townreading mollie and Kaze is definitely at the top of my list if there are 5 scum.

And if we assume that there are four Scum, is Kaze no longer at the top of your list?

@Skull:

I offer you my sincere apology for the language I used in a particular post on Day 1 (and language in any subsequent posts that was offensive). I should have guarded my tongue and treated you with the respect that every human being deserves. My behavior was unjustifiable. I hope that you can forgive me eventually.

I'll think about it.

[Skullduggery]

Mary Godwin, Neighbor

It looks like we're going through with the mass-claim, so my case on Venmar is on the back burner until it's over. I don't want to spend an hour pulling up quotes and making arguments only to have a claimed Cop say that they have an innocent result on him or something.

i realized that I derped and no actioned on n4 :/

*slow clap*

I have a smashing idea: Let's lynch someone else today, you jail me tonight, and I become confirmed Town tomorrow when someone dies tonight. I would appreciate that very much. I highly doubt Scum will no-kill just to incriminate me -- not when there are still so many threats that they need to eliminate.

Still, I think we have enough Town reads gathered that we can just plug-and-chug our way to victory if it comes down to that. Mislynching me isn't the end of the world, but I'd prefer to avoid it all the same.

[Skullduggery]

Sangres still thinks I'm Scum? What a shocker.

Yes, there is a selfish reason I don't want to be mislynched. I'll share it after the game is over.

[Skullduggery]

Kaze claimed to be Shion Uzuki, VT

hey skull whoever you're trying to kill isn't going to die today so you should sheep our vote instead
sound good?

First you call me survivalistic, and then you tell me to do something survivalistic. Pardon me for being wary.

WHY AREN'T YOU SHEEPING YET?

Because it's only been a few minutes? Cool your jets.

3) explaining why you're being a selfish bastard for no reason at all

There

is

a reason. I just said that it was a selfish reason.

[Skullduggery]

Your murder-boner appears to be raging out of control. You should pour some cold water on that bad boy.

[Skullduggery]

This bizarre conversation is making me laugh too hard. It needs to stop before I pass out.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kazekirimaru

You're right about one thing: My case on Venmar could be totally airtight and nobody would listen to me. I don't know what to do with Kaze anyway, so, okay, you've earend yourself a sheep,

kuribo

Nacho.

[Skullduggery]

how long can you deal with me when I behave this way?
not long, right? so start fucking voting kaze

I'm not annoyed. This is goddamn hilarious.

[Skullduggery]

I'm adding "chucklefuckery" to my personal lexicon.

[Skullduggery]

Kaze claimed to be Shion Uzuki, VT

good now let's fucking kill him

nonono I claimed Shion Uzuki, Maiden of Mary Magdalene.

VOTE: Skull

Um...no, you distinctly said that you were Shion Uzuki and expressed disappointment at being a VT since apparently she's one of the main characters. What do you hope to accomplish by making it seem like I'm lying? When the missing posts are restored in a few days, everyone will be able to see that that's what you said.

[Skullduggery]

However, an important post I made was lost, where I basically said we need to make the day count. (Also, finish the massclaim.) And get everyone doing solid reads and such. I directed it to Skull, but it applies to everyone, myself included.

Yeah, here's what I said in a post that got eaten:

Sangres is Town due to interactions with Cephrir and overall play.
Mastin is Town due to interactions with Cephrir.
Muffin is Town due to interactions with Aegor (his conversation with Aegor yesterday did not look like a Scum player pushing what he knew to be a mislynch).
ActionDan is Town due to connections to Sangres and Day 1 shenanigans.
Metal Sonic is Town due to interactions with Flandre and with me.
Gooner and Mollie are Town due to overall play.

That leaves Venmar, Orcinus, and Kaze. If Orc's Hated/JK claim is legit, I'll give him a pass for now. I ISO'd Cephrir during Night 4 and felt pretty good about Venmar being the final Scum player, but a Kaze lynch is perfectly fine too.

You conveniently left out the Maiden part, though.

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters. I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

Probably hoping nobody will make the connection between my role and Kagami's.

Kagami was a VT. You also claimed to be a VT. What kind of "connection" are you looking for?

For all I know you're hoping to bolster the support for my wagon and maybe even get a derplynch before the site is given dat Full Restore. That's what I'm feeling from you.

Dude, what? I'm doing the

exact opposite

of that: I'm suggesting that we wait for the missing posts to be restored so everyone can see with their own eyes that you messed up your fake-claim.

Let's assume for a moment that what you're saying is true. Let's say that I'm Scum, you're Town, and I'm trying to push your mislynch based on incorrect information that will be proven to be incorrect once the missing posts are restored. Why on earth would I do that? What would I, as the final Scum player looking to survive long enough to hack through ten other players, possibly have to gain by doing something so witheringly stupid?

[Skullduggery]

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters. I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

I don't believe you.

What part don't you believe?

Dude, what? I'm doing the exact opposite of that: I'm suggesting that we wait for the missing posts to be restored so everyone can see with their own eyes that you messed up your fake-claim.

What did I mess up, exactly?

I literally

just

told you.

Spoiler:

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters. I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

Let's assume for a moment that what you're saying is true. Let's say that I'm Scum, you're Town, and I'm trying to push your mislynch based on incorrect information that will be proven to be incorrect once the missing posts are restored. Why on earth would I do that? What would I, as the final Scum player looking to survive long enough to hack through ten other players, possibly have to gain by doing something so witheringly stupid?

You tell me? For all I know you're hoping to get a pass on "lol that push was so bad he must be town because the last scum would never do that".

So your argument here is that I'm intentionally being stupid just to avoid suspicion? I won't speak for you or anyone else, but I'm not going to degrade myself and act like an idiot just to secure a win as

any

alignment. Fuck you for even suggesting that I'd do such a thing.

All I know is you're misrepping me, you're doing it intentionally, and I wish for your death.

Where have I intentionally misrepped you? Quote specific posts where I did that. (Here, let me save you some time: You can't because they don't exist.)

It makes no sense for me to be scum flavour-wise.

Unless Shion is just a safe-claim, of course.

Unless I can get some shining ray of townie light from that slot(that'd likely require him to give me a good reason for pretending like I'm screwing up my claim) my push is going to continue in that direction.

It's not gonna happen, chief. I'm not pretending.

Actually darn I don't know who scum is but best guess is mastin , followed by kaze and Venmar for runner up scum reads

What's your case on Mastin?

[Skullduggery]

I literally

just

told you.

Spoiler:

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters. I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

...and the mistake you claim I made is...where?

Are you being this dense on purpose? You didn't say anything about Mary Magdalene during your initial claim, and then when you claimed a second time, you insisted that you did say something about Mary Magdalene (when you didn't) and acted like that tidbit was important enough to add legitimacy to your claim.

So your argument here is that I'm intentionally being stupid just to avoid suspicion? I won't speak for you or anyone else, but I'm not going to degrade myself and act like an idiot just to secure a win as any alignment. Fuck you for even suggesting that I'd do such a thing.

Oh, what the fuck ever. I don't want to hear it. There's no such thing as pride in Mafia. Especially as scum.

My pride is more important than an online forum game. Just because you apparently have no shame when you play as Scum doesn't mean you should assume that everyone else feels the same way.

Where have I intentionally misrepped you? Quote specific posts where I did that. (Here, let me save you some time: You can't because they don't exist.)

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters.

I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

Lies by omission are a thing.

Cool story, bro. I didn't omit anything. Here, I'll explain this as thoroughly as I possibly can to ensure that there is no confusion.

You initially said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters. You did not mention Mary Magdalene.

That post was eaten by the server downtime.

Sangres asked what you claimed. I told them that you said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters.

You voted for me immediately thereafter and accused me of misrepping you.

I laughed at you for this asinine accusation because I did not misrep you and I don't see how a rational human being would actually make such an idiotic logical leap. You're saying that I'm misrepping you because I said you claimed VT when you claimed VT and you didn't mention Mary Magdalene in your initial claim when you didn't mention Mary Magdalene in your initial claim. Now where, oh where, did I misrep you? I have said noting untrue.

[Skullduggery]

Kaze, are you a VT? Yes or no.

If you say "no," you are claiming Scum.

[Skullduggery]

It would be nice if we didn't lynch anybody until after the lost posts are restored just so we can sort out this situation with Kaze's claim before ending the day.

Skull, I am pretty sure I recall seeing the magdalene claim among the lost posts from Monday/Tuesday.

Muffin said Kaze made two posts when he claimed, so I guess it's possible that he claimed Shion/VT in one and Mary Magdalene in the other and I only noticed one of them? I dunno. I legitimately do not remember him mentioning Mary Magdalene when he claimed. All I remember is him claiming Shion/VT, and now Kaze is acting like the Mary Magdalene bit is somehow more important than his actual role? Either he's Scum who messed up his safe-claim or his priorities are really screwed up.

[Skullduggery]

Are you being this dense on purpose? You didn't say anything about Mary Magdalene during your initial claim, and then when you claimed a second time, you insisted that you did say something about Mary Magdalene (when you didn't) and acted like that tidbit was important enough to add legitimacy to your claim.

This is a legitimate lie and you are one ballsy motherfucker.

You are legitimately a dumbass. I'm willing to admit that I could be misremembering, but "not remembering" and "lying" are not the same thing.

HOW ABOUT

GOLDEN FUCKING IDEA

WE DON'T TELL SCUM WHO'S GETTING BLOCKED/PROTECTED?

Actually, it's a great idea. There's probably just one Scum player left, so if Orcinus announces who he's going to jail and someone dies tonight, then the person that he jailed is basically confirmed Town. Since the pool of possible suspects is so small (you, me, Kaze, and Metal Sonic), it would behoove us to eliminate one of those possibilities.

actually, here's a better golden fucking idea

give me 3 people to choose from.

It would depend on who gets lynched today, but as far as I'm concerned, it's come down to a choice between me, Venmar, Kaze, and Metal Sonic. As long as you announce who you're blocking before Night 5 begins, everything should be fine. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you ate the night-kill tonight (I'm assuming that your claim is legit), so if that happens, at least you can clear someone on the way out.

[Skullduggery]

I would love to eat a NK because I have no idea what I'm doing

Protecting between Action Dan, Gooner and Mollie, as sangres suggested. Reasoning for this is that if i have a scum in that list, all the scumteam is going to do is just have someone else do the night actions. it's better to use my action as a doc instead

No, no, listen to ActionDan. You're much more useful as a roleblocker than a doctor right now.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that there's only one Scum player left. This is a 20-player game. Do you really expect a 20-player game to have 5 Scum players

and

a Serial Killer? 15:4:1 is a much more balanced distribution. Three Scum players are gone, so there should only be one left.

Let's say we lynch so-and-so today and they flip Town. You jail Player X tonight (and you make it abundantly clear before the day ends that you intend to jail Player X tonight) and someone dies anyway. Player X is now confirmed Town! If nobody dies, that means Player X is the last Scum player and we lynch them tomorrow. (And no, the last Scum player isn't going to no-kill just to incriminate Player X. They have too many players to hack through if they want to have any hope of winning this game.)

If we get today's lynch wrong and you end up dying tonight, I don't want to say, "Well, Orc said he was going to jail one of three players, so we know that either ActionDan, Gooner, or Mollie are cleared." That doesn't help us. But if we get today's lynch wrong you end up dying tonight when you specifically tell us who you're jailing, then we have a confirmed Townie and that will really help us -- especially if you confirm a player who is currently under suspicion.

Whether you like it or not, Orcinus, you have a big responsibility right now. Play your cards right and you could be instrumental in winning the game for us. Who do you think we should lynch today? If that player flips Town, who are you going to jail tonight? We really need you to answer these questions before the day ends.

Aegor was BP-SK.

No he wasn't.

[Skullduggery]

why are people assuming there is necessarily only one scum left? 14:5:1 is entirely possible (depending on remaining scum power / unclaimed town power), in which case announcing a JK target doesn't do much

I'd be willing to make a bet involving money and possible phone book consumption that there is only one Scum player left. By looking at what has flipped and what others have claimed, six anti-Town players just seems like too much.

[Skullduggery]

usually mods factor the possibility of cross kills into balancing the a setup with a SK so 14:5:1 isn't an impossibility. i've seen 14:5 with an adequately stacked town and no possibility of cross kills, and i've seen 9:3:2:1 (6 anti-town players in 15 with 2 of those anti-town factions having the ability to kill) so i don't make stupid assumptions that could lose me a game by being blindsided by something, especially if i don't have all the claims on the table

Well, do you think that finishing the mass-claim is a better course of action then?

[Skullduggery]

Metal Sonic, take 10 or 15 minutes to ISO Cephrir and pay attention to how hard he tried to get Mastin lynched. It doesn't look at all like Scum trying to bus a partner; it looks like Scum trying to eliminate a threat. Now that our SK has been caught, there is no doubt that Mastin is Town.

[Skullduggery]

Flandre and SSK left us very little to work with, but Cephrir's ISO is a gold mine of information. I'm sure a player more skilled than I can find some choice nuggets in there.

[Skullduggery]

but now that i'm thinking about it and remembering it, there's still the {THING BORK DOESN'T WANT US TO DISCUSS} and i don't think aegor was the one that did the {THING BORK DOESN'T WANT US TO DISCUSS} because i can't really think of any way in which a SK would QT slip something, which means if there IS only one scum left it's prob in the bigger neighbourhood actually

But not if there are two left, like you've been suggesting? Why is this only a possibility if there's just one Scum player left?

I remember skimming the game and reading about 2 neighborhoods and theorizing about which has scum/which hasnt.

Now that you have (presumably) read your role PM, what is your current theory on this?

[Skullduggery]

Skull - I know there are 2 QTs right?

And the theory is that obviously not everyone in them was town alligned?

I think i remember skimming this game and seeing that the SK was in the 3 man QT, i am obviously in the 5 man QT.

I'd like to know claims and stuff to make up my mind regarding this, but QTs scummy % vary from mod to game to taste, so who da fucks knows is my answer at the moment.

Okay, cool. Just wanted to make sure you knew which neighborhood you were in.

Neighborhood #1:
Angry Frat Bros (Dead, Town)
Venmar
Metal Sonic

Neighborhood #2:
Aegor (Dead, SK)
Skullduggery
Pidgey
Mollie
Sangres

I'm Mary Godwin, a regular Neighbor. Sangres is Rubedo. Venmar claimed to be a regular Neighbor in a post that got eaten (I think he mentioned a character too, but I don't remember what he said). Kaze claimed to be Shion Uzuki, VT. ActionDan said he got an invention from AFB on Night 1 but didn't elaborate beyond that. Orcinus said he was Hated until Night 2 and then became a Jailkeeper (the SK probably blocked him on Night 3 and he said he forgot to jail someone on Night 4, so he has no interesting results to share).

I...

think

that's everything.

But not if there are two left, like you've been suggesting? Why is this only a possibility if there's just one Scum player left?

it's not

if there

is

only one scum left, it's probably in the big neighbourhood (do you disagree with my logic or?)

if there's more than one scum left, i still think there's one in the big neighbourhood - nothing changes, just that there's also probably scum outside the neighbourhood as well

I do disagree, yes. It seems like you're assuming that there must be Scum in the big neighborhood simply because it's a big neighborhood and the odds are in favor of it. You just scolded me in 2886 for making this exact same type of assumption.

Could there still be Scum in the big neighborhood? Sure, but I disagree with your belief that the last Scum player is most likely in there. I'd rather lynch Venmar or Kaze first. Only if both of them flip Town will I take a closer look at Pidgey or Mollie.

and i don't know why i'm the only one talking about the thing we can't talk about

coz the thing we can't talk about seems like something we should talk about

The mod said not to talk about it, so I just shrugged my shoulders and didn't talk about it. Do you really think that bork would have told us to ignore it if it was important in some way? The fact that he told us not to say anything about it leads me to believe that it doesn't or shouldn't have a significant impact on the game.

[Skullduggery]

I won't profess to be an expert on your play style, Mollie, but I've never seen you be so defensive before. What gives?

Kaze claimed to be Shion Uzuki, VT.

Maiden of Mary motherfucking Magdalene. It's a part of the role. >:

Yeah, this time I left it out specifically to piss you off.

What are you so preoccupied with this one irrelevant detail? I haven't said it before now, but my moniker is "The Sweet Sister." What does that change? Not a goddamn thing.

beep boop

beep boop?

What are you doing?

[Skullduggery]

Hey can someone providenany claim that has happened as for when i skim the thread? Pls

I hate you.

[Skullduggery]

I'll jk kaze tonight

Cool. That works for me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Venmar

I keep asking for CLAIMS (if any) so i have some hindsight but everyone is gay and not providing.

I hate you.

[Skullduggery]

Considering that the deadline is less than three days away, I'm worried about the number of people who aren't doing anything useful with their votes.

screw it. i trust myself. lynch kaze and we talk about the problems later

Help me lynch Venmar today. If he flips Town, let Orcinus resolve our Kaze problem tonight.

[Skullduggery]

...except nobody is actually saying that?

[Skullduggery]

We're not lynching Pidgey today.

Mastin is. You did (not as blatant as Mastin but nonetheless).

No I didn't. I don't want to lynch you because I think you're Town; I want to lynch you because I think you're Scum. Like I said at the beginning of the day, I ISO'd Cephrir during Night 4 and came away from it thinking that you're the last Scum player. (The other peeps in my neighborhood can corroborate this.) Having said that, I don't know with 100% certainty that you're the last Scum player and I think it's smart to plan ahead in the event that you flip Town.

You're trying to make it sound like I'm pushing what I know to be a mislynch, but that is not the case.

The game right now is divided among like 4 different wagons. Saddle up on Metal so we can finally end this game.

Tell me why I should vote for Metal Sonic. I do think he's Town, but I'm willing to listen to counter-arguments -- yes, even from you. (And just so you know, "Because he's been scummy all game" isn't gonna cut it.)

Notice how at the top of this page he acts convinced of lynching Kaze and the second Mastin and Skull show interest in BS lynching me, Metal Sonic jumps on it.

Orcinus has said that he's jailing Kaze tonight if this Day doesn't end with a Scum lynch, so we don't need to lynch Kaze today. That problem will resolve itself. It makes perfect sense for Metal Sonic to move his vote off of Kaze and onto a more suitable player.

[Skullduggery]

I cannot interpret or comprehend how anybody is scumreading me, I think you're all crazy.

Connections to Cephrir, mostly.

I would post quotes and stuff, but lazy.

[Skullduggery]

Hey, I have a much better idea: let's focus on Venmar or Metal Sonic today since the deadline is only 24 hours away. If there is a Day 6, we can explore the possible merits of lynching Pidgey then. There's no time for it right now.

i dont see the connections to cephrir though

maybe im blind

Nice Freudian slip

And you are...?

[Skullduggery]

I cannot interpret or comprehend how anybody is scumreading me, I think you're all crazy.

Connections to Cephrir, mostly.

My connection to Cephrir, from my POV, is little. I start off thinking Cephrir was leaning town from his posting style, then my read began to shift to scum when I thought his reasoning, vote pattern, and ideas didn't align with that should be coming from a town POV. My read on Ceprhri rested on leaning-scum for a pretty long time since then. Other than that, I rarely interacted with the guy.

I'm basing it more on the things he said about you, not the other way around. He mentioned you a couple times throughout the game, and every instance has a feeling of guardedness and terseness to it -- like he doesn't want to say

too

much about you. He also calls you Scum repeatedly for various reasons, but never once votes for you or pushes for your lynch. Distancing 101.

I mean, Metal Sonic isn't playing from a town mindset. Day 1 he attempted to bait a hammer on Brian, and was on every large and major wagon. If I cared enough to check his full voting history, I would not be surprised if he has been on ever major wagon on other days as well. His defenses are flimsy and consist almost only of discrediting and deflecting. Metal Sonic also possesses very little original thought, his reads fly with the state of the game and he adapts to make his stance the least different to avoid standing out. This day he has been attempting to become pro-active, but just crumpled back into going along with whatever other people say really. Almost everything about Metal Sonics general play screams opportunistic and not town motivated.

Lets not even mention his connection to AngryPidgeon, though. Metal Sonic effectively sabotaged him from the beginning by revealing AP's crumbs and slips in our Neighborhood QT. AP made the slip very early on, at Night 1 or 2, and AP declared that if he survived he would consider me and MS as leaning town. AP continued to survive for the next two nights or so, during which days AP goes on to catch scum. MS decides AP is a threat and throws out his slip and crumb, and then AP dies the next night, justifying his death because AP's slip was now public, so MS could kill AP without having other secret knowledge of AP's importance.

This is exactly what I was asking from you in 3080 -- reasons why Metal Sonic is Scum. I see where you're coming from, and it's making me consider whether my vote is in the right place.

[Skullduggery]

You know, I've seen several people say that they're getting apathetic because the game is practically over and Town is almost guaranteed to win, but the game's not over yet. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. This apathy is making us disorganized as shit. The deadline is half a day away and we're in serious danger of ending this day on a no-lynch because there are so many players who can't be bothered to care. We may be close to victory, but how do you expect to win if we don't lynch anybody?

Venmar and Metal Sonic. Those are our choices today. A vote for anyone else is a vote for a no-lynch as far as I'm concerned. Get off your butts and do something.

[Skullduggery]

Ugh. Fine. I'm not entirely convinced that Metal Sonic is Scum, but he isn't worth a no-lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Metal Sonic

Deadline is in 8 hours and that's L-1. Someone end this.

[Skullduggery]

Alright, cool. Glad I (probably) don't have to worry about Kaze anymore. In the meantime, here's why we should lynch Venmar today!

That flashwagon actually was one of the worst things i've seen.

Vote: Metal Sonic

It was, and I'm sure there was a bad vote on it, but I don't really think it's this one. It's quite in character.

Cephrir and Venmar talk about the early Brian Skies L-1 wagon. Cephrir says that there was "a" bad vote on it (Flandre), and quick early-game wagons are usually Town-driven in my experience, so this suggests that Flandre was the token Scum player on the wagon while the rest of the team was off the wagon.

Cephrir do you think Metal Sonic is scum?

No.

:/

Who is then?

My "reasonably strong scumreads" category currently consists of mastin.

But there are a

lot

of players who haven't posted enough for me to get a read on them yet, including you.

Engaging each other on a safe topic of conversation ("Is Metal Sonic Scum?"), which leads to Cephrir casually mentioning that he doesn't have a strong read on Venmar even though that was never in question.

@Pie - OMG I ALSO LOVE HOW YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED LOLOLOLOL

Sorry I don't want to talk to you anymore, it's giving me a migraine.

Vote:Pieguyn

This might be a scumpost. When I ragequit talking to someone there is a lot more rage and less quit.

"Might be." Keeping his options open so it won't look weird if he has to bus Venmar later on down the line.

I haven't read all these posts yet but I fucking told you pie was town

Venmar is scum for suggesting otherwise

And yet, no vote? No push on Venmar? No effort to assert with any sort of conviction that Venmar is Scum and needs to be lynched? Distancing.

"Oh this guy thinks i'm scum and he thinks this other person on my townreads is scum... THIS GUY IS SHIT AT THIS GAME AND IS NOT CREDIBLE ANYMORE"

yeah ok i need some air before i go all caps.

This ATE is materializing out of thin air for no discernible reason and I think it's poppycock.

I'm going to say that more, so brace yourselves.

"Venmar is Scum." *doesn't vote for Venmar*

yeah i just got hard ignored.

I've been scumreading you, but your last few posts have had more of a town feel to them.

I don't think they do =(

"Venmar is Scum." *doesn't vote for Venmar*

It is worth noting, though, that I don't see a hypothetical scum neighbor benefiting from going after their neighbors... that would make them look worse once said hypothetical neighbors flipped town.

This looks like Cephrir is trying to advise Venmar to ease up on his unrelenting tunneling of Metal Sonic because Cephrir knows that Metal Sonic flipping Town will end up hurting Venmar in the long run.

Venmar- has rubbed me the wrong way at times (and I think you were the one who threatened me with a mutual scumread which I hated?) but nonetheless his neighbors are scummier

Now Venmar is no longer the scummiest member of the three-person neighborhood even though nothing of significance happened to change this view?

1054 is a good post to analyze in general. Cephrir was nice enough to split up his reads into four categories (five if you count Mastin's one-person category), and lists Flandre and SSK in separate groups. Seems logical to think that he'd put his three partners into three separate categories, which means that the last Scum player is either in the Town group (Pidgey) or the ??? group (Venmar or ActionDan).

I haven't read all these posts yet but I fucking told you pie was town

Venmar is scum for suggesting otherwise

Why did you say that Venmar is Scum for doubting Pieguy's Bodyguard claim? What does Scum-Venmar have to gain by persisting with his suspicion of Pieguy after the claim?

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town. Since then, I've seen a decent number of others continue suspecting him, so I must conclude it's possible.

Also, yes, this is true, nothing. Pieguy isn't getting lynched. However, I can imagine how it could be useful to scum. It gives them someone to talk about suspecting who will not go away fro quite some time and yet will also not survive the entire game. It keeps him in the public eye for possible lynching if he doesn't get a successful protect off in some arbitrary amount of time.

"Venmar is Scum." *doesn't vote for Venmar*

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town. Since then, I've seen a decent number of others continue suspecting him, so I must conclude it's possible.

Possible that Pieguy is actually Scum or possible that other players doubt him? You make it sound like you suspect him just because others do.

Also, yes, this is true, nothing. Pieguy isn't getting lynched. However, I can imagine how it could be useful to scum. It gives them someone to talk about suspecting who will not go away fro quite some time and yet will also not survive the entire game. It keeps him in the public eye for possible lynching if he doesn't get a successful protect off in some arbitrary amount of time.

So you think Pieguy is Town and Venmar is Scum who is setting him up for a future mislynch. Is that correct?

Re: point 1; possible that other players doubt him. I still don't suspect him, but I have concluded it's not ridiculous someone could do so because enough people are doing it that they can't all be scum.

I did think that, but I don't really anymore. Venmar could almost be town for being the first to doubt it, in hindsight, because it seems like a risky position. I thought he was trying to keep pieguy as a mislynch option, but he's not really focusing on it and seems willing to let him eventually die to night actions.

I ask Cephrir directly if he thinks Venmar is Scum and he gives me a wishy-washy non-answer -- almost as though he doesn't want to say anything that could potentially incriminate a partner.

The second half of that last sentence also looks like more coaching from Cephrir, like he's telling Venmar to focus his attention elsewhere and let the Pieguy problem resolve itself in time.

[Skullduggery]

VOTE: Venmar

[Skullduggery]

I'll hammer myself if it comes down to it I guess, but all I can say right now is that I am town and I fucked up with Metal Sonic, but I won't defend myself because I don't have a way to considering it's all coming from Cephrir. He's probably chuckling in the dead QT right now in how he has either his scumbuddy or a town chump misinterpreting him and getting me mislynched.

Was Cephrir the one who told you to focus entirely on Metal Sonic? Do you think that Metal Sonic flipping Town is the only reason you're under a microscope right now? Is your opinion of me still so unclear (it's Day 6, dude) that you can't decide whether I'm Scum or just a Town chump?

If you want to convince me to back off, you'll have to do a better job than that. If you're not Scum, then who is?

[Skullduggery]

And Cephrir didn't tell me anything, if you're trying to imply that you're voting me for anything else other than Cephrir's interaction with me then sorry but that's how it looks like, so i'll focus on it.

Nope, my case on you is based almost entirely on your connections to Cephrir. Like I said earlier, I didn't have any heavy suspicion of you until I ISO'd Cephrir on Night 4.

Can someone summarize the claims that happened and somesuch?

My summary for Pidgey in 2958 should suffice. The only thing that has changed since then is Metal Sonic and Orcinus dying. Orcinus jailed Kaze last night, so if there's only one Scum player left (which I will believe until it is proven otherwise), you're basically confirmed Town.

And skull will never be put into a town read for me.

Meanie.

No I'm VT

Sure you are.

[Skullduggery]

I think the Brian Skies/Gooner/Pidgey slot is Town, and if I ever do decide to vote for Pidgey, it will be purely for PoE purposes. I'm definitely not going to vote for him while there are better options in front of me -- like Venmar (who needs more votes, by the way, please and thank you).

I cannot see Mastin as Scum and will not be voting for her under any circumstances. Once again, I refer you back to Cephrir's ISO so you can look at how aggressively he tried to get Mastin lynched. It doesn't look like Scum bussing; it looks like Scum trying to eliminate a threat. Her hard-defense of SSK and subsequent dejection at his flip also indicate a Town mindset.

We liked skull's reaction to the wagon on day 486 or w/e. But, her assertiveness bugs me on some level that's hard to explain.

Would you feel better if I twiddled my thumbs and did nothing? I know you said that it's hard to explain, but try to explain it anyway. I'm curious to know what you mean by this.

Can someone explain to me what i think xmuffin said regarding Action Dan? Something about 2 people targetting Metal Sonic n1, therefore Action dan probably being town. Or whatever.

1882 and 1934 from Cabd. He watched Sangres on Night 1 and saw Pieguy, SSK, and ActionDan targeting them. If SSK and ActionDan were both Scum, it wouldn't make much sense for both of them to target Sangres on the same night. That's one of the many reasons why ActionDan is Town.

[Skullduggery]

Would you feel better if I twiddled my thumbs and did nothing? I know you said that it's hard to explain, but try to explain it anyway. I'm curious to know what you mean by this.

You're throwing your weight around like you're confirmed town.

Again, would you feel better if I twiddled my thumbs and did nothing?

I'm trying to catch Scum and win the game. Is there any reason why I shouldn't be acting this way? Is there any reason why I shouldn't be trying to win? You're basically saying that my efforts to win the game for Town are bugging you, and I find that laughable.

[Skullduggery]

I dont really like mastin's reasoning against venmar, but I do like what skull is saying about that slot.

Why do you think my case on Venmar is better than Mastin's?

[Skullduggery]

If Mastin is someone you think is town, I can easily settle for a Skull lynch.

Is Mastin's alignment dependent on mine?

Vote: pidgey

But whyyyyyyyyyy?

[Skullduggery]

coz, by and large, his tone throughout the game has been relaxed and his play hasn't looked manipulative in the way i think it'd look if he was scum. i don't have a massive amount of experience with venmar, but i *did* look over his recently completed scum game and there's a distinct difference in tone and his approach to the game

he's not the type of player who ever looks obvtown but i think the way he was arguing stuff here didn't look like scum

Pretend I'm lazy and don't want to read the game that you linked. What did Scum-Venmar look like in that other game? What traits did he exhibit there that he isn't exhibiting here?

Skull i liked your case because it actually makes sense. Mastin's case is just mastin being mastin. I think you brought good points regarding venmar so yah.

By which you mean that Mastin doesn't normally present cases that make sense? If you think that Mastin's case on Venmar is poor, what does that tell you about Mastin's alignment?

Was Flandre Scarlet already the obvlynch when Gooner replaced in?

I can tell you without even checking when Gooner replaced into the game that Flandre was obvious-Scum from the very beginning.

Like wtf would make it "more ok" to vote me for after posting that

fucking shit like that id say as any allignment anyway lol

If it's something you'd say as any alignment, then why do you find it odd that Iecerint would call you Scum for it?

Is Mastin's alignment dependent on mine?

Why would it be, there's presumably only one scum left?

Then why would you "settle" for lynching me only if Mastin turns out to be Town? You make it sound like you expect Mastin to flip Town and then plan to push me as Scum after that.

[Skullduggery]

Then why would you "settle" for lynching me only if Mastin turns out to be Town? You make it sound like you expect Mastin to flip Town and then plan to push me as Scum after that.

Excuse me? Are you fucking high? I said I would settle for lynching you if we AREN'T going to be lynching Mastin2.

If Mastin is someone

you think

is town, I can easily settle for a Skull lynch.

READ THIS SHIT AGAIN. CLOSELY. THEN COME BACK TO ME.

I read it closely the first time. How does this invalidate my observation in any way? (Bonus points if you can answer this question without throwing a temper tantrum.)

[Skullduggery]

As an aside:
zMuffinman and Venmar really look like scumbuddies.
Their whole interaction.

Their whole way of going about things.
How they're treating each other.
And even how they treat others treating the other.

All looks like scumbuddies.

Can you pull up some examples of this when you get a minute?

[Skullduggery]

I have a smashing idea: let's not lynch Pidgey today. I just looked through Brian's and Gooner's ISOs and found them both to be painfully Town. I went out of my way to try to find incriminating scummy shit and came away empty-handed. My conviction isn't quite strong enough to make any wagers regarding phone books and the consumption thereof, but I feel pretty confident that Pidgey's slot is Town.

I still think Venmar is our best bet for today, but how receptive is everyone to the possibility of Mollie being Scum? Would that be a suitable compromise if we can't agree on Pidgey/Venmar?

[Skullduggery]

I still think Venmar is our best bet for today, but how receptive is everyone to the possibility of Mollie being Scum? Would that be a suitable compromise if we can't agree on Pidgey/Venmar?

Wow, slow down opportunity grabber.

If I'm an opportunity grabber for specifying that there are only two people I'd be willing to lynch today, then what does that make you?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Skullduggery]

I mean, lol, you cleared Mollie as town in #2746, and in #2958 you said you wouldn't lynch Mollie until me and Kaze been lynched. There's really no other mention of mollie until you just threatened to compromise on her? Please, take your bullshit elsewhere Skull.

I cleared Mollie in 2746? That's news to me. All I said was that I thought she was Town at the time, but I guess reads aren't allowed to change and evolve over time, eh?

I like how you vote for me

and then

try to find reasons to call me Scum. Town players do it the other way around, you know.

[Skullduggery]

For the sake of finally ending this game, lets lynch Skull, in the name of AP's dying wish.

You know, the more you say that I should be lynched because that's what AFB wanted before he died, the more I'm inclined to believe that you killed AFB so you could use it as justification to set up my mislynch.

[Skullduggery]

Oh, snap, you're absolutely right. I must be Scum because I'm not responding to every little thing you say. You figured it out. Good job. Have a cookie.

[Skullduggery]

And in case anyone is wondering, post 3434 is exactly the kind of thing that's making me uneasy about Mollie and why I would be willing to compromise on her lynch if there are too many players who can't see Venmar's scumminess. Her case on Muffin is bad, and I have a difficult time believing that she doesn't realize how bad it is. Her reasons are kinda weak and limp-wristed, but even though they've been refuted pretty thoroughly, she sticks by them. She insists on relentlessly pushing on a player who is unlikely to be lynched, and the benefits to this are twofold:

1.) She gets to maintain the illusion that she's actually doing something worthwhile.
2.) Since a Muffin lynch probably isn't happening today, she won't have to worry about being in an incriminating position on today's eventual end-of-day wagon.

It's nothing concrete, of course -- just a general feeling I've been getting from her behavior lately -- which why I'm sticking to my guns and voting for Venmar instead of pushing on Mollie more. I would prefer to lynch Venmar today, but a Mollie lynch is also acceptable. Hope that clears up any confusion.

[Skullduggery]

Oh, snap, you're absolutely right. I must be Scum because I'm not responding to every little thing you say. You figured it out. Good job. Have a cookie.

On a scale of Woodrow Wilson to Rick Astley, how clever of a smartass do you feel right now?

George Carlin.

And, once again, that doesn't actually invalidate my point.

Muffin, would you be willing to compromise on Skull?

To quote a wise man, "Wow, slow down opportunity grabber."

also would tracker result show up negative on some1 who was in a neighborhood? cos I don't think so

So you're saying that SSK either lied about investigating Sangres and I or he really did investigate us but lied about us performing no action? In either case, what would be the benefit of him saying that neither of us performed an action on the nights when he said that he tracked us? If I had been a PR and he said he tracked me and saw that I performed no action, I would have called him out on it and he would have gotten lynched for lying about his results. Why would he even take that risk?

Furthermore, what kind of response would he have gotten from bork if what you say is true? "You tracked Sangres on Night 1, and they performed an action on Mollie, Aegor, Skull, and Gooner"? That's...kind of ridiculous, don't you think?

I don't think you thought this through very well.

also didn't you have cephrir as town

I thought Cephrir was Town too. What's your point? If you think a player is Town but they flip Scum, does that automatically mean you must be Scum too? Is a Town player not allowed to be wrong every now and then?

[Skullduggery]

To quote a wise man, "Wow, slow down opportunity grabber."

You should blow up. These aren't similar situations.

There are two players that you'd be willing to lynch today. There are two players that I'd be willing to lynch today. Without resorting to irrelevant semantic bullshit, can you explain how these two situations are different in any way? I don't think you can do that while avoiding the hypocrisy of calling me Scum for doing the exact same thing that you're doing.

THE RECORD HIGH POST COUNT HAS REACHED OF SKULL IGNORING MY POSTS AGAINST HIM AND MY WAGON.

I AM NOW CONFIRMED TOWN

BITCHES

Oh shit, really? It's that easy to become confirmed Town? You just have to shout it in all caps and that makes it true? Wow. I never knew that.

ATTENTION, PLAYERS OF XENOSAGA MAFIA: I, TOO, AM NOW CONFIRMED TOWN

Hell yeah! Now I don't have to worry about being mislynched anymore! Thanks a bunch, Venmar. I owe you one, buddy.

[Skullduggery]

Venmar has two scumreads on Mastin and SkullDuggery. He wishes to lynch Skull, but is willing to compromise if needed be on Mastin, his other scumread, to secure a lynch.
Skullduggery has virtually only one scumread on Venmar. He wishes to lynch Venmar, but is also willing to comrpromise if needed be on Mollie, his townread, to secure a lynch.

Yeah. Two, exact same fucking things.

I specifically told you to explain it without resorting to irrelevant semantic bullshit, and what do you do? You resort to irrelevant semantic bullshit anyway. Try again -- this time without the irrelevant semantic bullshit, please.

Also, did you miss the part where I said that I was no longer Town-reading Mollie? It's in 3438, for the record. I would appreciate it if you would stop making it sound like I want to lynch a Town read when that isn't the case.

Stop being so fucking obtuse, you think you're a smartass? Blowing up my point (which was the fact you-scum have avoided all of my points against you and my wagon, AS WE SPEAK) to stupid, unreal proportions is only you trying so hard to make me sound like a pompous retard. If you can't lynch me with big boy pants, then go ahead and compromise on the Mollie mislynch, scum do that, yes?

If you try to hide behind ridiculous and nonsensical logic and I point out how ridiculous and nonsensical your logic is, then that isn't me being obtuse; it's me pointing out the holes in your case. Don't blame me because you can't come up with a coherent and convincing reason to push my mislynch.

Skull's reactions and posts have been consistently in line with a scum mindset, he's been giving me nothing but snarky and smartass comebacks which he thinks make him look all so very clever by trying to twist my points against me, which isn't exactly disproving anything i'm saying, nor does it contribute to him scumhunting or being otherwise productive. A town mindset from Skull, if he had one, in my opinion, would have been to try and answer or at least address my points like a town scumhunter, because it promotes discussion and can help him shed more light on me if anything, rather than trying to avoid them and hope they blow over like a scum opportunist.

Yes, I'm a smartass. Yes, I'm snarky. No, those aren't Scum-tells.

I think it's pretty hilarious that you're trying to argue that I haven't been addressing your points and promoting discussion. Yes, it's true that I've kinda been skimming your posts lately and not responding to every point you make, but that's only because any half-decent Mafia player can detect the palpable malicious intent behind your propaganda without me explicitly pointing it out.

I also think it's pretty hilarious that you're accusing me of avoiding your posts in the hope that they blow over. Tell me, at what point today or yesterday did it look like I was trying to avoid you? At what point did it look like I wasn't Scum-hunting by deliberately and directly engaging in conversation with you?

I look at Skull now and I am now 100% confident he is scum.

If you were Town, you wouldn't be 100% certain about anything.

@Muffin
@Nacho
@Mastin? (If you're town?)
@Icerint
@Anyone that is town and cares,

Please reconsider your positions on Skull. If you think he is town, please let me know why. If you think he is null, i'd like to hear why. This town and game is extremely divided right now between like 4 or 5 people and i'd like to try to steer us towards a definite vote in the name of the town. Yes, Muffin I know you want to lynch Mollie. Yes, Nacho, I know you want to lynch Pidgey. Yes, Mollie, I know you want to lynch Muffin. Yes, Mastin, I know you want to lynch me. Iecerint.. Idk who you're voting, Pidgey maybe? If you guys don't see the bad pattern here, it's that there is no common votes among us. We should stop trying to see which of our dicks is bigger for out scum suspect and cooperate. Of course, in my PoV, this is voting Skull, but the idea is there.

Holy shit. Who looks desperate now, chief?

Sangres, Muffin, Pidgey, and Mastin have all told you why they think I'm Town already. I can understand if you don't want to read my posts, but the least you can do is pay attention to

them

.

[Skullduggery]

Okay, real talk for a moment. Let me ask you a question, Venmar. What do you think SSK did on Night 2? Who do you think he tracked -- me or someone else?

In case you forgot, he said he tracked me on Night 2 and saw me going nowhere. If you think SSK and I are Scum buddies, then I want you to explain what you think really happened on Night 2.

[Skullduggery]

Also, if you think I'm Scum, then that means you think there are two Scum players left. Who is my partner?

[Skullduggery]

I don't care really of the night actions of non-killing Mafia roles. Scum lie frequently. Even if you were town and he tracked you, how does that clear you? If SSK said the truth, it doesn't clear you of being town, he just cleared you of not being a PR or not using an action that night. Mafia Goons DO exist. Mafia DO try to clear each other. I DO want you to fucking die.

I can't help but read this paragraph and think that you're saying you want to lynch me even though you don't actually think I'm Scum. It's like you're trying to convince yourself.

Anyway, good job dodging the question. Since you seem to be unwilling to take a firm stance on this issue, I'll explain why it makes no sense for SSK and I to be partners.

There are only a few plausible scenarios here.
1.) SSK and I are both Scum, I didn't perform an action on Night 2, he tracked someone else, and he said he tracked me instead because he knew that I didn't perform an action on Night 2.
2.) SSK is Scum, I'm Town with no night action, he tracked someone else on Night 2, and he said he tracked me I did nothing even though he didn't know for certain.
3.) SSK is Scum, I'm Town with no night action, he tracked me on Night 2, and he saw that I didn't perform an action.

Scenario #1 is mind-numbingly stupid because it would have severely limited my options when it came time to mass-claim. Claiming that he saw me going nowhere means that I would have been forced to eventually claim a role with no night action to keep these results consistent. If you think I'm Scum, that means you believe I would willingly and knowingly limit my options and make the game more difficult for myself because of...reasons? It also means you disrespect SSK's Scum game enough to believe that he would clumsily incriminate a partner by making such a blatant connection between the two of us.

Scenario #2 is also mind-numbingly stupid because it would have been a monumental risk for SSK to take for a very small payoff. It means he would have had to gamble on the possibility of me being a non-PR with no night action even though he had no way of knowing for certain.

Scenario #3 makes complete sense and is almost certainly what really happened.

If you think that there's another plausible scenario besides these three, then by all means, feel free to present it and explain why it's more likely.

Also, Skull being scum would make his neighborhood 3 town, 1 scum, 1 SK, which I find oddly

right

. From a mod point of view, scum probably DO have access to that QT via a member in it, since they didn't have one in mine. 4 Town and 1 SK seems kind of odd I think, since there's already a 3-member town neighborhood in mine. Scum are weakened by not being a part of one of them, so I objectively think there's scum in the last remaining members of the large neighborhood.

Like Pidgey said, this logic could easily point to Mollie or Pidgey being Scum as well. And yet, you indicated in 3507 that if I moved my vote to Mollie, that would only make me scummier since only Scum-me would compromise on a Mollie lynch in that position. You're daring me to move my vote to Mollie just so you can say, "See? Skull moved to Mollie just like I said they would!"

This is so blatantly manipulative that I cannot possibly see it coming from a Town mindset. You are attempting to set a trap for me just so you can incriminate me further.

Also, if you think I'm Scum, then that means you think there are two Scum players left. Who is my partner?

Remind me why this follows?

Since Venmar elected once again to avoid taking a solid stance on this issue, I will now explain why it is ridiculous to believe that I am the only remaining Scum player.

In 2704, I

volunteered

to be jailed by Orcinus so that I could become confirmed Town when a kill went through that night. I very specifically and clearly told Orcinus to jail me. If there's only one Scum player remaining and that player is me,

why would I do that?

You could argue that it was a gambit and I was secretly hoping that Orcinus would jail someone else, but you'd have to be outrageously paranoid to actually believe that to be the case.

What would be the benefit of Scum-me taking such a risk anyway? If it failed, I'd be jailed that night, lynched the next day, and then my team would lose. If it succeeded, I would be in the same position that I was in the previous day and I would have gained

no advantage whatsoever

. It would have been a stupid risk to take for absolutely no payoff.

Therefore, if you think I'm Scum, it follows that you have to believe that there are two Scum players left and I volunteered to be jailed by Orcinus so my partner could perform the kill that night.

So again I ask: If I'm Scum, then who is my partner?

[Skullduggery]

You have some motherfucking balls to say I am avoiding anything or trying not to take a position on something you have said, you of all people, you hypocritical fuck.

I'm the hypocritical one here? Really? Have you looked in a mirror lately? You're the one who keeps pointing to things that both of us are doing and saying that I'm Scum for it but you're not.

I'm not going to assume two or more scum until the game keeps going on after we lynch one. I don't have strong reason to believe you WERE the recipient of the block, I don't recal Orcinus outright saying who he will block, just a small list of people he might. You volunteering doesn't really impact my decision.

First of all, 2995 and 3052. Eat a dick.

Second of all, if you're going to argue that there's only one Scum player left, then it can't be me for reasons that I literally

just

explained. Maybe try reading what I say, you hypocritical fuck.

My explanation damn well

should

impact your decision. Otherwise you'd be pushing for my lynch in spite of there being convincing evidence indicating that I am not the last Scum player. Sure, ignoring evidence like this doesn't necessarily indicate that you're one alignment or another; it just means that you're fucking horrible at this game

Just so we're clear I am quite done arguing with you, borderline talking to you, because this shit is getting fucking absurd now. Expect no more replies from me to you. (inb4 you call me scum for this for avoiding discussion or some other dumb shit, in which case, shut up hypocrite, i don't care, die.)

So if I'm scummy for skimming your posts, then shouldn't that make you extra scummy for ignoring my posts altogether? I really don't think you have any place to call me a hypocrite anymore considering the shit that you're pulling now.

Do you think I'm going to stop talking to you just because you fold your arms over your chest and pout like a little bitch? I think you're Scum and nothing you've said today has even come close to convincing me that I'm wrong.

Not only do I think you're Scum, but at this point in the game, I am actually

praying

that you're Scum because I do not want to face the possibility that you're Town and you are

legitimately

this much of a manipulative, lying, hypocritical, immature, obnoxious, whiny, slanderous, incorrigible, petty, unreasonable, monomaniacal, malicious, simple-minded prick.

Ignore

that

, bitch.

[Skullduggery]

Skull is full of shit.

I've effectively refuted your half-baked attempts to push my mislynch, I've shined a spotlight on all of your manipulative lies, I've pointed out the glaring inconsistencies in your logic, I've explained why your arguments are complete nonsense, I've presented coherent arguments for why you're Scum, and I've presented thorough explanations for why it makes no sense for me to be the final Scum player. But no, go ahead and hand-wave all that away by saying that I'm full of shit. It's easier than defending yourself against all the truth bombs I've been dropping on your sorry ass, isn't it?

If you're as frustrated as you claim to be, maybe you should do us all a favor and replace out. If you really are Town, your presence is nothing but a liability.

[Skullduggery]

I mean it. If you're Town, your ego is getting in the way of your common sense. That is a detriment that could end up costing us the game.

[Skullduggery]

If you're Scum, though, feel free to stick around so I can continue to grind you down until you're nothing but a greasy smear on the ground.

[Skullduggery]

@skull

tbh asking to be jailed wouldn't even make you town if there were only one scum left, and if asking to be jailed made you the towniest thing that ever towned, then you should have thought the same about kaze yesterday when he asked to be jailed

coz i dont remember you making that same argument for kaze being town unless 2 scum left when he offered to be jailed

Kaze never asked to be jailed. Orcinus said he was going to jail Kaze and I immediately left Kaze alone. Once Orcinus died, I treated Kaze's slot as confirmed Town.

ISO me if you don't believe me.

[Skullduggery]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mollie

[Skullduggery]

Call me Scum for moving my vote, Venmar. I fucking dare you.

[Skullduggery]

Mind the deadline. We have a little over one day to either lynch probably-Scum Venmar or compromise on maybe-Scum Mollie. Pick one.

it only matters if skull saw it (but then skull saw his claim and didn't remember that, soooooo doesn't really matter)

I don't follow you. If Kaze really did request jailing, why does it only matter if I saw it?

This also doesn't change the fact that I immediately halted my push on Kaze when Orcinus said that he planned on jailing Kaze. (Orcinus said he'd jail Kaze here and this was the very next post I made.) I'm not trying to clear myself while failing to clear another player for the same thing if that's what you're implying.

[Skullduggery]

because your play revolving around kaze wouldn't make sense if requesting jailing would only come from town, and your request for jailing means shit all given kaze did it before you (like right after the claim) so you berating venmar for not arguing against this point is dumb on a lot of levels

I was trying to explain why it doesn't make sense to call me Scum if you think there's only one Scum player left in the game. If you think there are two Scum players remaining, then sure, I'm still a suspect. But if you think there's only one Scum player left, then you shouldn't think that it's me or Kaze/Iecerint unless you want to entertain Strongmen or other such paranoid possibilities.

but, really, it doesn't matter because i can't show he did say it, nor can i show you saw it, soooooooooooo dunno why you're asking about it

I asked you about it because you said something that didn't make sense and I wanted you to clarify what you meant. Is there a problem with that?

also you didn't "halt" your push, you said the jailing would clear things up, but if simply requesting being jailed made someone town (which is what you're suggesting is the case with you) you shoulda been like "omg don't jail kaze why would he ask you to do that as scum?!?!?!?" or something along those lines

The thing is, I wasn't sure whether Kaze was Town or Scum. The other inhabitants of my neighborhood will attest that I have had no idea what to think of Kaze for just about the entire game. I was willing to lynch him just to eliminate that variable, but I was also okay with jailing him since doing so would also be helpful in sorting him out.

[Skullduggery]

Fuck. 2845. I stand corrected.

I should probably get into the habit of double-checking what people say instead of relying on memory.

[Skullduggery]

Either way, if you think it's just empty WIFOM that doesn't actually clear me, you're free to disregard it. You'll only hurt my feelings a little bit.

[Skullduggery]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Venmar

i'm just saying that you obviously didn't think it meant anything when kaze said it, but you think venmar should think it means something because you said it

That's because I didn't notice that Kaze said it. Apparently my memory is not as good as I think it is.

[Skullduggery]

If we're purging the 5-man quicktopic we should be lynching skull.

Just give up already. This is getting embarrassing now. I am embarrassed for you.

I need to check the kill patterns, but I think that Varsoon (who we now know to be the mafia nightkill) is an important NK.

Refresh my memory -- why do we know this to be the case again?

i'm not lying to you.

Says the guy who has been demonstrably lying all day.

[Skullduggery]

Do it. Make me the happiest girl at the dance.

[Skullduggery]

@Mastin:

I need to check the kill patterns, but I think that Varsoon (who we now know to be the mafia nightkill) is an important NK.

Refresh my memory -- why do we know this to be the case again?

[Skullduggery]

what is a mason neighbor

I don't get how you can be both

Pop quiz: Who is the other Mason? I want to see if you've been paying attention.

Also, please explain why it makes no sense for Scum-Mollie to have hammered Flandre, as you insisted in the neighborhood last night.

[Skullduggery]

Dan/Neighbors: I know Nacho. He blazed last night with one or both of you. He wouldn't let himself die without doing analysis. So I want a full paraphrase of what happened last night, so that I can get Nacho's thoughts. Because I know his blazing and I know it's pretty dang good.

I think Gooner was allowed to directly quote something from the neighborhood earlier in the game, so I'll shoot Bork a PM asking if I can just quote what Nacho said last night.

In the meantime, to paraphrase: he made a couple posts demanding that Mollie talk to him, she made one post in response, and then Night ended. He wanted her to explain why she thought Muffin was Scum and why she said she wouldn't have bussed Flandre if they were Scum buddies. She responded by saying that she didn't like how Muffin had to work up a Scum read on her and then said that it makes no sense for Scum-Mollie to have hammered Flandre (hence why I asked her

why

that wouldn't make sense in 3590).

3 days ago I thought it was skull. But skull escaped the lynch. Was sad.

Have you come to your senses yet?

[Skullduggery]

I'll shoot Bork a PM asking if I can just quote what Nacho said last night.

Verdict: Negative. Hopefully the paraphrase is good enough. He basically just wanted to talk to Mollie but didn't get a chance to say more after she responded.

Skull: Your Venmar scumread was wrong, so who's your pick for scum?

Not quite sure yet. Mollie seems like the obvious choice, and if someone were to hold a gun to my head and tell me to vote right now, I would probably vote for her. However, I can't help but shake the feeling that our (probably-)last scumbag is keeping Mollie and Muffin alive so they'll spend all their time focusing on each other.

I'm starting to get paranoid about

you

, actually. If it's not Mollie, you're probably the next most likely candidate. It's true that I'm not familiar with your Scum game, but I do know that you try to avoid bussing whenever possible, so your hard defense of SSK could be indicative of that. My initial Town-read of you was primarily based on the way that Cephrir treated you, but I think yesterday's lynch has demonstrated that Cephrir's treatment of other players isn't quite enough to determine someone's alignment for certain. (Friggin' Cephrir messing with my head from beyond the grave...)

ActionDan is confirmed Town, Iecerint is almost-confirmed Town, and I just have a hard time seeing Pidgey or Muffin as Scum, all things considered. If I were to rank the remaining players in order of most likely to least likely, it would look like this:

Mollie
Mastin
Muffin
Pidgey
Iecerint
ActionDan

I want to chat a bit with Mollie first, though. Her stubbornness here reminds me of a certain other

(sexy and awesome)

Town player, so I want to make sure I'm not misreading Town doggedness as Scum posturing.

[Skullduggery]

Iecerint: Dan's right about the hypocrisy. Your posting this game has been lackluster. Bluntly, if there were two scum, you'd be my number one pick for a lynch simply because your slot has never been town and you've used the excuse of being conftown to not give any serious effort to this game.

What do you think the timing of Kaze's replace-out indicates about his alignment? I find it unlikely that Scum-Kaze would replace out of the game immediately after being cleared by the Jailkeeper --

especially

if he still had a partner out there who could help him ride that confirmed-Town status to the end.

However, I can't help but shake the feeling that our (probably-)last scumbag is keeping Mollie and Muffin alive so they'll spend all their time focusing on each other

...

or, you know, they could be killing off the practically conf-town players because they need to? just a crazy theory - dunno if i'm right or wrong about this

Sure, sure, but if you're Town, I would imagine that the Scum team would view you as a top kill priority. You're not going to be all modest and disagree, are you?

She responded by saying that she didn't like how Muffin had to work up a Scum read on her

what's this mean, btw?

I don't know; that's just what she said. I'm sure Mollie would be delighted to elaborate, though. Right, Mollie?

[Skullduggery]

mebbe you look up how I feel about bussing and how I got into a postgame spat with regfan over it. I will try to link it later. sometimes you have to bus but you don't do it in stupid ways.

You've said before that you don't like to bus your partners when you're Scum, but Nacho made a very interesting observation in the QT last night: you didn't actually

bus

Flandre -- all you did was hammer him. You didn't actively push for his removal from the game, which is kind of what bussing is.

The first time you even acknowledge Flandre's existence is 1282, where you state your intention to hammer him. In 1283 you avoid giving a firm opinion of him but say that you're okay with lynching him anyway. Still no strong opinion of him in 1400. You say in 1419 that you asked for a claim from Flandre (even though you never did -- at least, not in this thread, if you catch my drift), and then you hammer him in 1543. That is the full extent of your interactions with Flandre. Do you think that qualifies as "bussing"? Because I sure don't.

Also, I agree with Muffin. You don't really think that hammering obvious-Scum Flandre is bussing in a "stupid way," do you?

I WISH I had more time to talk to nacho and I find it pretty FUCKING convenient that he was nked before I had a chance to more fully talk to him he was trying to sort me out

for fery

because fery was getting paranoid about we but we have an implicit understanding that we go through other people to deal with other so that it doesn't shit up the game. that is what nacho was doing, I guarantee it, cos that is what he has done for me. <--- you probably don't understand this but there a lot of people who do cos they have seen the fireworks.

And yet, you didn't seem to have a problem talking to fferyllt on Night 4 or Night 5. Also, you had six friggin' nights to talk to Nacho in the neighborhood, so don't act like he was killed before you had a chance to have a substantial conversation with him.

I don't like how skull is doing zero reevaluation after the venny lynch and is throwing suspicion my way when I am so *popular*. I still think it is muffina.

"Zero reevaluation"? Really? I was wondering before whether you've been paying attention. Guess this answers my question.

Am I scummy for being suspicious of you? Is Pidgey equally scummy for "throwing suspicion" at you as well? Is it inconceivable for a Town player to be suspicious of you at this point in the game?

[Skullduggery]

Mollie is townish but after going through cephir's iso mollie wasnt as strong as my other reads.

What did you mean by this, Pidgey?

[Skullduggery]

I wasn't talking to myself in 3627, Mollie. Show me where you're coming from and help me figure you out. If you're tired of talking to Muffin, maybe you could try talking to me instead. I won't bite you unless I'm really hungry.

Have any scum flipped from that particular neighbor thread?

Aegor was in our neighborhood and he was the SK.

After checkng cephir's iso yet again i find myself greatly divided in mollie. I again think that slot is town, i dunno, the cephir call outs seem weird as fuck in there.

What "call outs" are you referring to? Post some quotes, please.

Also, its kinda weird how cephir had mastin as the biggest scum read too, dunno what to feel about that.

Well, we know that Cephrir flipped Scum, right? That should be enough to get started. Do you think it looks like Scum distancing or do you think it looks like Cephrir recognizing that Mastin is a threat and is trying to get rid of her?

"Everyone tell me why you'd debate yourself as town, contentwise"

Look at just about every post I made on Day 6 when I was refuting Venmar's herpaderp case on me. I think I did a pretty kickass job of explaining exactly why it makes no sense for me to be Scum.

I think this is why nked sangres cos you KNEW they would start looking elsewhere. they have all game and kept settling for compromise lynches but eventually they would have settled on YOU.

Do you think that Sangres dying last night specifically incriminates Muffin and no one else? Did nobody else have a compelling reason to kill Sangres?

I don't really see a reason for you to read Venmar that way as scum (e.g., going out of your way to describe the context of something he said that I said I found scummy, etc).

I don't follow you. Can you explain this in a different way?

lalalalalala

Yes, thank you. Very helpful, as always.

Let's see what we can do about getting you to contribute. You said you got an invention from AFB on Night 1, correct? What was it and what did you do with it? (I'm going to assume that nothing of significance happened since you only mentioned it in passing, but at this point in the game, it can't hurt to share this information with us.)

Since we're on the subject, would you care to elaborate on 2678 and 3155? You make it sound like you know that AFB gave (or tried to give) an invention to Mollie. How?

You may be kind of useless, but you're confirmed Town and are therefore a prime night-kill target. If you know useful information, you should share it while you still have a chance to do so.

What do you think the timing of Kaze's replace-out indicates about his alignment?

Absolutely nothing? I've been treating the slot as one entity.

So does that mean you disagree with the observation I made about Kaze's slot in 3606? Do you think I'm wrong to think that a Scum player would be foolish to replace out of the game right after gaining such an advantageous position?

SSK fakeclaimed a guilty on Skull?

Was SSK under pressure prior to that coming out (such that it looked like he would be lynched either way)?

In 2064, he said he tracked Sangres on Night 1 and me on Night 2 and saw both of us performing no action. His Night 1 action is confirmed thanks to Cabd Watching Sangres on Night 1, and I know that his Night 2 action is plausible since I don't have a night action. He was under some pressure at the time, but I don't recall his lynch being inevitable when he claimed his results.

You could theorize that SSK and I are Scum buddies and he tracked someone else on Night 2, but I explained why that's a cockamamie theory here.

[Skullduggery]

The summary of why you think it is unlikely for you to be scum with SSK is that him claiming no result on you means you can't fakeclaim most PRs. Accurate gloss?

Not really. For starters, I don't think it's unlikely that SSK and I are partners; I

know

that that isn't the case.

If my explanation has too many ~words~, the main idea of what I'm trying to convey is that there was no benefit to SSK claiming that result on a partner. If I was Scum and SSK was my partner, all he would have done was hinder me while doing nothing to improve his own chances. It's an unnecessary gamble with no reward.

You make it sound like you know that AFB gave (or tried to give) an invention to Mollie. How?

AFB was pretty blatant about it - i'm pretty sure at one point in the game he even directly asked mollie to verify it

though i think it happened on N3 and there's a theory about global roleblock that night? (i don't know why it didn't happen N2 and if it did happen N2 i don't know why mollie wouldn't have received it)

Yeah, AFB said he tried to give Mollie an invention after Night 3, but ActionDan posted 3155 at the beginning of Day 6. Did he know that AFB tried to give Mollie an invention again after his unsuccessful first attempt? If so, how? That's what I want him to answer.

@ skull

I have had you as town and we have largely been staying away from each other until now. I don't like your push on me not 1 bit especially since it seems like you are missing all of the signals. and I don't know what to do with that.

What "signals" should I be seeing?

My push on you is nothing more than an attempt to figure out your alignment, but you seem to have a problem with that. Why?

[Skullduggery]

Okay, ActionDan, one more question for you. Do you know for certain that Mollie received an invention from AFB or was 3155 just speculation? The answer to this question will be helpful in determining Mollie's alignment.

This isn't a "gotcha" with the wording or whatever. I am just making sure I did not miss anything substantive about what you said.

I'm pretty sure I did summarize the mechanism of him hindering you that you stipulated, so I guess it's basically accurate.

I suppose from another Townie's perspective, it could still be possible for SSK and I to be partners, but it would require you to assume that SSK was clumsy enough to make such a colossally short-sighted decision and the Scum team completely failed to plan ahead for when SSK would inevitably have to reveal his Track targets. Possible, sure, but so unlikely that it isn't even worth serious consideration.

between your tunneling without making an effort to even remotely figure me out or what I am trying to say,

skull's fucking retarded obtuseness and opportunistic push which can easily come from scum

and mastina's hedgey mchedgeville post the game is impossible to figure out.

Excuse you? What the fuck is this, Mollie? Are you even reading my posts? I have made it

abundantly

clear that I just want to talk to you so I can get a better read of you, but all you've done is snap at me and call me Scum for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you been pissing and moaning about Muffin doing the exact same thing to you?

You're basically saying that Muffin is scummy because he

hasn't

been trying to figure out your intentions, I'm scummy because I

have

been trying to figure out your intentions, and Mastin is scummy for doing

neither

. Good analysis, Mollie. I am giving you the slowest of slow claps right now.

And you wonder why nobody is listening to you.

[Skullduggery]

I would ask you to point out where I've been obtuse, but I know you won't because you can't.

[Skullduggery]

The fact that he revealed his Track targets on Day 3 so readily leads me to believe that he planned ahead of time to use his role and night results to get out of trouble.

He shared his Tracker results on Sangres and I in the same post (2064). The only reason his Night 1 action is confirmed while his Night 2 action isn't confirmed is because Cabd saw SSK performing an action on Sangres on Night 1.

Once again, I refer you back to 3516. If anyone wants to argue that Scenario #3 doesn't make the most sense, I'm all ears. I think he really did track me on Night 2 and saw me going nowhere. I dunno, maybe he thought I was a PR or something.

[Skullduggery]

Since SSK did reveal his targets, what do you mean by "would eventually have to reveal"?

Well, Cabd revealed his Watcher results at the end of Day 2 (wherein he said he saw SSK perform an action on Sangres on Night 1), so I imagine that when Night 2 rolled around, one of the Scum team's biggest priorities was deciding what SSK was going to say on Day 3 to get out of trouble. Surely they would have used Night 2 to plan ahead so they could try to save SSK. Seems like a sensible assumption, right? If you (and that's a general "you," not Iecerint specifically) think SSK and I are both Scum, do you really think that SSK claiming me as a track target is the best idea that we could have come up with? Really? That's the point that I was originally trying to make. Cabd caught SSK with his hand in the cookie jar, so SSK needed to come up with

something

and the something that he came up with makes no sense if both of us are Scum. Do you follow me?

(Why didn't SSK get a pass, anyway? A confirmed-ish tracker would normally get a comfy pass.)

He was scummy and his Tracker claim just didn't feel right (hence my extremely short-lived theory that he was a Scum Rolecop pretending to be a Tracker).

About the inventions. I got mine n1. It's a one time only commute. Usable whenever.

AP gave the 2nd to cephir. But lol ascetic.

He attempted to give it N3 to mollie who claimed she didn't get it. 1shot global rber sk dies so he probably used rb. AP dies. Mollie claims no invention. Neither me nor sangres got it ever. Where did it go? Maybe the rb destroyed it. Maybe it went to scum. Al had no reason not to give it to mollie in lieu of me or sangres

How do you know this?

[Skullduggery]

I had thought that Cabd revealed both results at the same time on D3, but it sounds like that isn't what happened.

Well, Cabd would have had a really difficult time revealing his results on Day 3 since he died on Night 2 and all.

[Skullduggery]

VOTE: Mollie

[Skullduggery]

Yeah, I'm starting to get a little uneasy about Pidgey too. Lots of empty promises for content, one-sentence fluff posts, and very few solid reads. Brian and Gooner Towned up that slot super hard, though, so I'm not sure what to think about him right now.

I kinda think it's skull more than mollie

Is this just a PoE thing or do I need to rehash all the reasons why it makes no sense for me to be Scum?

I do not like skull's opportunism at all.

I would ask you to point out where I've been opportunistic, but I know you won't because you can't.

[Skullduggery]

Im honestly surprised im not getting more pressure since im like the only one who has no town alibi and im playing really shitty lol

If we lynch Mollie or Mastin or whoever today and they flip Town, you and I are going to have a nice long talk in the neighborhood tonight.

If you're Town, then you should have nothing to worry about. But if you're Scum? Well, if you're Scum, then I'm going to figure it out and you'll be left with only two choice: either you kill me tonight or you resign yourself to being lynched tomorrow, because I

will

make sure you get lynched tomorrow. Consider that a promise.

But, of course, we don't even have to worry about any of this because we're going to lynch the last Scum player today, right?

[Skullduggery]

On a scale of one to ten, how likely is it that reading Mastin's ISO will make you change your mind about your vote on Mollie?

[Skullduggery]

Fair point, I suppose. I just think it's a bit weird for you to shift gears this close to the deadline when you seem to have been so certain of Mollie-Scum for so long. Did she do something to make you second-guess that stance?

Also,

@Bork:

My vote is still on Mollie.

[Skullduggery]

Spoiler:

DAY 1 LYNCH
[11] Flandre Scarlet (sangres, Cephrir, Angry Frat Bros, ActionDan, Aegor, Skullduggery, orcinus_theoriginal, pieguyn, Varsoon, Gooner, macmollie)
[3] Kagami (Kazekirimaru, Venmar, Flandre Scarlet)
[2] Cephrir (Kagami, mastin2)
[2] zMuffinMan (Metal Sonic, MafiaSSK)
[1] Cabd (zMuffinMan)
[1] Not Voting (Cabd)

DAY 2 LYNCH
[10] Kagami (Angry Frat Bros, Venmar, mastin2, Metal Sonic, Cephrir, Kazekirimaru, macmollie, pieguyn, Aegor, ActionDan)
[1] Kazekirimaru (Kagami)
[1] Skullduggery (sangres)
[6] Not Voting (Gooner, Cabd, MafiaSSK, orcinus_theoriginal, Skullduggery, zMuffinMan)

DAY 3 LYNCH
[8] MafiaSSK (ActionDan, Gooner, Cephrir, Aegor, sangres, zMuffinMan, Kazekirimaru, Skullduggery)
[3] Metal Sonic (mastin2, Venmar, Angry Frat BROs)
[1] mastin2 (macmollie)
[3] Not Voting (MafiaSSK, Metal Sonic, orcinus_theoriginal)

DAY 4 LYNCH
[7] Aegor (Angry Frat Bros, pirate mollie, mastin2, Metal Sonic, Skullduggery, Aegor, Kazekirimaru)
[3] Skullduggery (sangres, ActionDan, zMuffinMan)
[1] pirate mollie (Gooner)
[2] Not Voting (orcinus_theoriginal, Venmar)

DAY 5 LYNCH
[6] Metal Sonic (Venmar, Kazekirimaru, pidgey, ActionDan, Skullduggery, mastin2)
[2] pidgey (sangres, zMuffinMan)
[2] Venmar (Metal Sonic, orcinus_theoriginal)
[1] zMuffinMan (pirate mollie)

DAY 6 LYNCH
[5] Venmar (mastin2, pidgey, Skullduggery, sangres, Iecerint)
[1] pirate mollie (ActionDan)
[1] Skullduggery (Venmar)
[2] Not Voting (pirate mollie, zMuffinMan)

I probably do not like mcmollie and skullduggery the least regarding lynches that have happened.

I know where you're going with this, so I'm gonna just nip this in the bud right here. Yes, I've been on every lynch wagon this game except for Kagami's. Below you will find some data on my voting patterns in previous games (not including the ones where I died early and didn't get a chance to do much of anything).

Calvin & Hobbes Mafia

Spoiler:

Day 1 Lynch Wagon:

Zoidberg, Nobody Special, penguin_alien, Desperado, Boxxy, T S O, Who, EddieFenix, Varsoon,

Skullduggery

, Psyche

Day 2 Lynch Wagon:

Varsoon, Mr E Roll, Psyche, Desperado, T S O, TiphaineDeath, EddieFenix, Nobody Special, Who

Day 3 Lynch Wagon:

penguin_alien,

Skullduggery

, Desperado, Varsoon, Metal Sonic, Rubicon, TheIrishPope, Psyche

Day 4 Lynch Wagon:

penguin_alien, Nobody Special,

Skullduggery

, Varsoon, Yates, Dante

Day 5 Lynch Wagon:

Yates, Dante, EddieFenix, Varsoon

3 out of 5

Las Isla de la Muerte

Spoiler:

Day 1 Lynch Wagon:

JasonWazza, Baby Spice, Formerfish, Belisarius,

Skullduggery

, mnemonicdevice, Titus, Who, Zoidberg, Saki

Day 2 Lynch Wagon:

Belisarius, JasonWazza, SalmonellaDoctor, Titus, PeaceBringer,

Skullduggery

, Desperado, Saki

2 out of 2

Two Room Mafia II

Spoiler:

Day 1 Lynch Wagon:

JasonWazza, Marquis,

Skullduggery

, DCLXVI, PeregrineV, Elyse, BeautyAndTheBeast

Day 2 Lynch Wagon:

The Gambler, PeregrineV, camn, BeautyAndTheBeast, Marquis, Elyse

Day 3 Lynch Wagon:

Skullduggery

, chkflip, camn, Ankamius, Elyse, BeautyAndTheBeast

Day 4 Lynch Wagon:

camn, Ankamius, chkflip,

Skullduggery

, PeregrineV

Day 5 Lynch Wagon:

chkflip, BeautyAndTheBeast, Elyse, Ankamius,

Skullduggery

Day 6 Lynch Wagon:

Elyse, Ankamius,

Skullduggery

, BeautyAndTheBeast

Day 7 Lynch Wagon:

Elyse,

Skullduggery

, Ankamius

Day 8 Lynch Wagon:

Elyse,

Skullduggery

, Ankamius

7 out of 8

Open 529: Picking Simplicity

Spoiler:

Day 1 Lynch Wagon:

Antihero, Skelda, Titus,

Skullduggery

, Loranthaceae, mastin2, Rainbowdash, Evil Regals, Maenara, Svenskt Stål, don_johnson

Day 2 Lynch Wagon:

Skullduggery

, aptil, Titus, don_johnson, uctriton00, Rainbowdash, Loranthaceae, Svenskt Stål, Wake88

Day 3 Lynch Wagon:

Loranthaceae, aptil, Maenara, Svenskt Stål, Titus, uctriton00, JacobSavage, Rainbowdash

2 out of 3

I was Town in all of those games. I'm a chronic wagon-pusher, and this game is no different. That is not a Scum-tell for me.

[Skullduggery]

[Skullduggery]

Can we get a link to the 3-person neighborhood too? Here's the 5-person neighborhood: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/fUmPbSDZm5MUD

The deleted post in there was from me, by the way. It was just a short two-sentence post asking Aegor to stop being such a jerk sandwich, but I deleted it a few minutes later because it had no bearing on the game and because I figured it probably wasn't going to make Aegor act like any less of a jerk sandwich. When Bork said that editing or deleting the neighborhood posts was a modkillable offense, I sent him a PM apologizing for my spontaneous bout of dumbassery and he was nice enough to let me keep playing as long as I promised not to do it again. I was still really anxious about if for a while after that since Muffin just wouldn't fucking stop talking about it and I thought Bork was going to have to modkill me out of necessity, but luckily it blew over after a while and didn't have a huge impact on the game. So, yeah, there's that mystery debunked.

Sangres still thinks I'm Scum? What a shocker.

Yes, there is a selfish reason I don't want to be mislynched. I'll share it after the game is over.

That selfish reason is because I've played somewhere around 25 games of Mafia throughout my life and I've never been lynched as Town. Not even once. Call me selfish, but I'm rather proud of that accomplishment and I want to keep it going for as long as I can. That's why I was so adamant about fighting my potential mislynch even though there were a couple points in the game where I felt like my presence was a distraction.

Thank you, Town, for not lynching me, by the way.

More ammo for the Skull-scum train.
Also, who is the only player in this playerlist who would kill Varsoon N1?
SKULL SKULL SKULL

Vote: Skullduggery

This still baffles me, though. Did you honestly think this was the case? Why would I be more likely to kill one of my favorite people on the site so we can't play together?

*blows a kiss at Varsoon* We'll be in a neighborhood together one of these days.


Anyway, kudos to Mollie for hanging in there, congrats to Cephrir for doing such a thorough job of fooling me, well done Town for the victory, and thanks a lot for the game, Bork. It was stressful at times (mostly because of...well, you saw what happened), but enjoyable overall and I'm pretty happy with my performance. I'm glad I got the chance to be a part of your Xeno trilogy. (No, my brief cup of coffee in Xenogears Mafia doesn't count.) The highlight for me was definitely Nacho going batshit insane and calling me a chucklefuck. That was so funny.

[Skullduggery]

This is the sort of play I associate with Skull-town.
If Skull-scum plays this way, I'm terrified.

I'm a terrible Scum player, so no worries there. If I had the choice, I'd be Town in every single game I play.

(I hope that it works out and they lynch Skull so we can have a QT together, finally, hahaha. One day, some poor bastard is going to put Skull and I in the same faction with a QT and it'll spell doom for our opponents.)

Damn skippy.

I really don't get where all the scumreads on Skull are coming from

That makes two of us. I think it all started when I defended Kagami on Day 2 because I thought she was Town, and that...made me scummy...somehow? Yeah, I didn't understand it either.

That was easily seen when I was lynched without a solid case being built on me when there were much better scum candidates. My lynch

literally

came out of nowhere on Day 4.

Spoiler:

but seriously skull is arguing strong theory and is getting shit on for it

I legitimately have not seen real reasons for anyone scumreading skull this whole game and I can't say that about ANYONE else (including people I know to be masons)

That means a lot coming from you. Thank you.

"It doesn't look at all like Scum trying to bus a partner; it looks like Scum trying to eliminate a threat."

Hey, I resent that, Skull. Mastin wasn't a threat, she was a mislynch I thought I could get. And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids.

I almost modkilled Skullduggery instead of posting 2974. mollie is getting heat for something she didn't even do.
Hopefully they drop the issue.

Yeesh.

Word of advice for the future, Muffin: When the mod says to stop talking about something,

stop fucking talking about it.

Why do people think its ok to edit/delete posts in neighborhood QTs. So dumb.

Because people are fucking morons.

Seriously, the level of stupid that I see occur on this site on a regular basis boggles my mind.

Both of you can go eat a giant bag of dicks. There was a brief moment where I wasn't thinking, and that was it. Making a simple mistake does not automatically make me a "fucking moron." I guess you're both perfect and neither of you have ever made a mistake before, huh? Go fuck yourselves.

In other news skull is awesome holy crap I love you skull!!!!!!!!

You're referring to...yeeeeeeah, that post. That's probably the angriest I've ever been while playing Mafia. I'm not proud of it, but it needed to be said.

[Skullduggery]

And @Skull: My lynch literally came out of nowhere. You suspected me for incorrect reasons since Day 1, and my lynch was based on associative tells that were obviously not actually tells.

Oh, gosh, you're absolutely right. I thought you were Scum, but you were actually the Serial Killer. I was

so

incorrect.

[Skullduggery]

Oh also skull, to save my sanity, what pronoun do you prefer?

I have no preference.

I would also like to sincerely apologize Skull, for our heated arguments the day I got lynched. I get carried away in situations like that and you didn't deserve my lip. though your case was shaky

Apology accepted. I'm sorry too. My stubbornness can be both an advantage and a detriment when playing Mafia, and in this instance, it was definitely a detriment.

[Skullduggery]

You lost, Aegor. Get over it. Crying about your lynch post-game isn't going to retroactively prevent it.

[Skullduggery]

Thank

you

for being such a great mod. You have given me a goal to work toward: I want to be as good as you someday.