Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Venmar

[Kazekirimaru]

no he's just always scum

even if he has a town role PM

discredit

discredit

discredit

[Kazekirimaru]

Nah, Brian's pretty scum.

VOTE: Brian

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm just messing with you ilu Kaze <3

inb4 you're scum

We'll always be a foil to each other.

[Kazekirimaru]

Serious as a myocardial infarction.

[Kazekirimaru]

He feels weird.

[Kazekirimaru]

A what?

Better backtrack and sheep AP before you flip something like SuperSaint.

VOTE: Mastin

I hate this post.

[Kazekirimaru]

huh. is it bc of his comment about zmuffin flipping super-saint? scum are more aware of super-saints and in this case it wouldn't even affect him. so I'm inclined to agree that post feels off

vote: Brian

what are your thoughts on sangres so far?

You got it.

I've no thoughts on sangres.

[Kazekirimaru]

Mafia steak.

So good, you want to hang yourself.

[Kazekirimaru]

Cease this begging for further inquiry at once young man! Because it annoys me! Roar!

Your prose reminded me of someone. I got irritated for a moment. It's okay, it passed.

I like this post!

Yeah? Why?

sangres.....suspicious

Yeah? Why?

VOTE: Brian

Yeah? Why?

Who are you an alt of, again? Jiffy? I can't remember.

Buddying Kaze,
Claiming Town,
Varsoon is home now.

Hello <3

Vote Brian with me. It's what the cool kids are doing.

No thoughts?

No thoughts.

no he's just always scum

even if he has a town role PM

VOTE: Pieguy

Don't like that post, eh?

...

Why~?

[Kazekirimaru]

As far as reasons to vote someone are concerned, "He feels weird" seems like the opposite of serious.

To me, it's the most serious of reasons.

Skull is town, Kaze is scum.

There was a question. I asked it. It was to you. You should answer.

Surely you must know there is neither an award for posting the first wall nor for posting the most pointless one.

Since you asked, though, I liked pie's post because it clearly started in a place that didn't have any particular direction and acquired a direction by the time it was done. Genuine thought process.

Aw, you sound like you dislike walls. You might not like me. That's okay.

But cool.

Metal Sonic what do you thin of AFB

What do YOU think of AFB? Is your vote serious?

Agree, Disagree. Ceph prob-town too.

VOTE: Brian

Hi, Kagami. You're scum this game, right?

[Kazekirimaru]

Nope, town4ever

Mm. You sure? You wouldn't lie to me, right~?

[Kazekirimaru]

Was pie's 40 an accurate rendition of what you were thinking, btw?

More or less.

Vote: Brian

i don't think brian is scum

That's probably not the best place for your vote, then.

hey hey guys

i have an idea

what if we didn't do that

What's wrong with the Brian wagon, exactly?

Alright. Lynch before 5.

VOTE: Brian

The hell?

im hated until n2.

Cool.

For sort of a dirty reason. I assume that http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5638001 wouldn't have happened if varsoon were town, since that trust tell fiasco and shit.

Could you explain this to me? I don't follow.

Why not? It looks like a good wagon to me with all them sheep votes. Regardless of what I flip, I think you guys can nail the entire scum-team with the information we've garnered thus far.

I've not seen you do this before. It upsets me.

pieguy is actually scum

Cool. Tell me why? I love wagoning that guy.

Why wouldn't I? I'm going to end up townreading him eventually anyways considering I always do, whether I'm right or not.

I...what?

hammer brian for the lolz

a part of me is actually serious here and another part is kidding

1) he may be a lynch-to-activate PR e.g. supasaint andy

2) if he flips scum we will be in history as the only theme game (bork's games are unprecedented anyway)

but yes clearly all logic says that its a bad idea

Where did this come from? Seriously? A "lynch-to-activate PR"?

Nice avoidance of stance on the wagon, by the way.

[Kazekirimaru]

That flashwagon actually was one of the worst things i've seen.

Vote: Metal Sonic

Hey, Venmar. I kinda want to vote that way, too. What're you feeling?

[Kazekirimaru]

kaze, I'd be saying "kazetown" about now on the basis of your posts except for one thing. I'm confused by your lack of thoughts on us. I would think you'd be making some effort toward figuring us out if what we've put down in the thread hasn't given you something to think about.

I gotta prioritize. For what it's worth, I like that you asked about the Supersaint thing. That's not giving me many vibes in any direction, though. I figure you'll reveal your alignment as you talk more. If you don't, then I'll give you more attention.

[Kazekirimaru]

Oh look, walls.

Did you /see/ it? There were some pretty scary votes there. It was useful though, I think Muffin is town now. Also, Brian's reaction was pretty odd.

"Odd?" Do tell.

I would have been too, but the self vote kind of made me care less.

I personally wouldn't have minded if the wagon continued on.

I'll be honest: When it comes to this series of questions from Kaze, my instinctive reaction is "kinda sorta feels faked". It's something I can see being legitimate scumhunting, but can also see as being scum faking it.
When it comes to a similar series of questions from Skull, though, my instinctive reaction is, "Oh! Yeah! That's town, alright."

So, why do they feel different?

Vote: Brian

i don't think brian is scum

Is probably town, but I need more to be sure. (Seventh.)

General agreements here, but why do you think so?

Are ya now?

I like Skullduggery for town. I thought I'd have warm fuzzies about Kaze by now, but I don't.

That's cool. You've given me none, either.

I can give you the TL;DR if you'd prefer?

You offer this so soon after bringing up ny 165 and

shaping reads

.

lolparanoia

Okay, maybe one warm fuzzy for you.

Kazekirimaru

If I wanted people to know who I was, I would be on my main account. That being said, you're the only one who really called out my naked vote on Brian. Townpoints to you.

Metadodgers make me sad. I wish I could lynch you just for this reason.

Funny, the former is what this entire post feels like to me

You too, eh?

Indeed, but this wagon feels different. It's not an all-scum wagon, but I'd be surprised if it was mostly or entirely town. Like I said, I'm betting either two or three scum on it. Probs not Skull, Kagami, Varsoon, zMuff, or Brian Skies. But could be Kaze (nullscum), pie (scum), Flandre Scarlet (null), Metal Sonic (nullscum), or orcinus (nullish, maaaaaybe nulltown; difficult to be certain).

What makes this one feel different?

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Hey, someone sees it!

4. Brian Skies
^Also town. Brian Skies gives off the aura of a town player who doesn't give a crap about the wagon on him. He's relaxed, he's casual, and he's also not being a lurkaderp; he's still putting time, effort, and analysis into the game.

What did you think of his selfvote?

And how can you say he's not lurking at this point? The game has been up for two days and he hasn't posted for the latter one.

5. Cabd
^Town. I admittedly do not know Cabd that well; I'm not sure I've seen his scumgame and am not intimately familiar with his towngame. But his posting so far just feels like town, and that's good enough for me.

lol It really shouldn't be.

8. Kagami
^Town. I can see the aura of towniness emitting from Kagami right now, and it is clear as can be.

Agreements. But again, why?

10. macmollie (mac + pirate mollie)
^Fairly decently town. Mollie hasn't done much, but what she has done gave me an immediate townvibe from her.

How?

No but really, mastin, several of your stances are very unsubstantiated and it bugs me.

And someone else sees it!

I wouldn't have voted for Brian if I didn't think he was Scum, so I'm looking more closely at the second scenario right now. The first three people on the Brian wagon were Kaze, Pieguyn, and Flandre. Of those three, Flandre is making me the most uncomfortable. I see nothing but fluff, a naked vote, and what looks like an attempt to produce content just for the sake of producing content.

And my reasoning was so much better?

holy fuck you really are scum
vote: mastin

Let's vote together this whole game, yeah? Apparently we're both town~!

It's not true of the two games that I played with scum-Mastin. And in my prior meta-forays, I found him to be arrogant and confident in some of his town games. But, I don't constantly re-meta or read ALL the games like some players I could mention.

I disagree. PA's LesMis and Mastin's play there disagree, as well.

People ask me this kind of question all the time, and I think it comes down to a communications gap. I can't fully express the gestalt that goes into a read, so I pick some highlights that I think hang together and will resonate. Or maybe I could express the gestalt if I were willing to write really, really long walls that nobody would want to read.

I'd read it!

also you have about two seconds to explain mastin town before I run your ass into the ground for being his partner

Oi, yes. I feel town-pie for sure. I like it.

---

I'm having some troubles this game, I fear. I didn't expect this. I got far too few strong reads from the first few pages. I'm upset.

This is a thing, though:

VOTE: Mastin

Take a little trip with me.

[Kazekirimaru]

I really wish you could give me something more than "It is because it feelz"

I mean, I play heavily on gut. Really. Ask anyone. But this is just ridiculous.

[Kazekirimaru]

Mastin, when you attempt to turn in your AP Calc homework with just answers and no work shown, don't be fucking surprised when everyone thinks you cheated and already had the answer sheet.

Fun fact:

I used mental math for concepts that most people couldn't do without calculations for

years

. In fact, my mental math often proved more accurate than my written math, because mentally, I came to the right answer, but when trying to do the processes that I had skipped, I made mistakes--sometimes obviously, or sometimes knowing they were mistakes yet not being able to figure out *why* they were mistakes.

I was later forced to learn to write it down because my teacher refused to give credit for the mental math, in spite of me having absolutely no method of cheating and my answers largely being right anyway. Understandably, I was worse at math for a while before I learned how to adjust.

So, yes, I can be surprised that people think I cheated, because I'm an honorable guy, for the most part. I expect me saying "No, I didn't cheat; that'd just be cheating myself. Why would I cheat?", means that people won't think I'm cheating, since I wasn't. I just did it, naturally. Granted, there were some things I needed to work at--to study. But for the most part, math was intuitive. I grasped the concept, and really really

got

it. (I did have trouble tying separate concepts together, though. Doing one, was fine. Doing the other, was fine. Doing both, my mind broke down.) Anything I write down is mostly a formality in math for me having already worked out the answer. The mind's faster than the hand.

...You probably need a better metaphor.

Reads = math, eh?

I don't accept. Apologies. Step up to the board and grab the chalk.

[Kazekirimaru]

I am so not understanding all of the mastin hate. Could someone explain?

He's saying stuff for no reason and when pressed for reason gives more no reason.

Ahem.

But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.

Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.

I've got a serious case of the Thisfeelstooeasys.

Someone help.

[Kazekirimaru]

Eh?

[Kazekirimaru]

This is fair. I was thinking the same at one point, but then I realized town-mastin shouldn't suck this much either, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's not really a fair argument.

That's because it's something I've never done.

So, why do it?

[Kazekirimaru]

what do you think of the Brian wagon?

No opinion.

Really, though?

[Kazekirimaru]

It was a flashwagon. Opinions regarding it are completely unfounded by virtue of its nature.

...

No, they're not?

[Kazekirimaru]

read: how do you like the chance of mastin x zmuffin team?

Not sure about that yet.

also, if scum-mastin has more chops than this why don't you think he'd take the "I don't care" route as scum?

Because Mastin and the English language are bros. Or at least frequent drinking partners. He could have probably made up some reasoning if he wanted to. But he didn't. My vote is feeling less and less awesome.

what the fuck is this? why are you reading me based on feeling "off" when my scumgame is like one of the most transparent things ever? given you like meta, I'd expect you of all people to know this 0.0

Are you self-metaing?

And I see where you're going with this. I dislike it.

Okay, first of all, my lurking/inactivity isn't alignment indicative (that goes for you too, Mastin; I'd also hardly consider being gone for half a day as "lurking"). Secondly, a new semester has started for me so I'm probably going to be making most of my posting at night.

Yeah, yeah. Fine.

Why not? There's no rule that says I can't join my own wagon. And it's not like I self-hammered.

But for what purpose would you join your own wagon? I don't get it. You're basically contributing to your own possible lynch.

Town: Metal Sonic, Aegor, Kagami, mastin2, orcinus
Par for the course: Cabd, Sangres, Skull, Brian, Varsoon, Venmar, MafiaSSK

Scummy: Pieguy, Zmuffin, Flandre, Cephrir, Kaze
Meh: Dan, MollieMac

Can you help me see town Metal Sonic and Aegor?

[Kazekirimaru]

But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.

Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.

I've got a serious case of the Thisfeelstooeasys.

While this is goodposting with your words, your actions do not back it.

What, cranky I haven't moved my vote yet?

You clipped the last sentence of my quote. I don't know why you did that. Especially when it pretty much explains why I haven't moved my vote yet.(I'm feeling uneasy but needing more thoughts on the subject.)

[Kazekirimaru]

You saw how fast the Brian wagon developed. If you're Scum (giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you aren't) and you see that wagon get five or six votes, do you jump on it or do you stay the fuck away from it for fear of looking like opportunistic bandwagon-jumping Scum? You stay away from it. If you placed a vote on him early, you did so without knowing that the wagon would escalate so quickly because you (presumably) have no way of looking into the future. If there is Scum on the Brian wagon (and I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that there are), they're more likely to be at the beginning than the middle or the end. Do you follow me?

I jump on wagons late as town all the time. Sometimes for no reason other than to push it. Wagons are a tool.

Not particularly, no. I just think that between the three of you, Flandre has the best chance of flipping Scum. What do you think of Flandre's contributions to the game thus far?

I can't recall a post they made. So, not much.

I'm getting similar feelings about Mastin, which is why I haven't joined that wagon. If Mastin does get lynched and flips Town, where would you be likely to look to find Scum?

That'd depend on how the votes on his wagon look individually. The context completely shifts with a flip and all that jazz.

[Kazekirimaru]

<3

then we won't have a problem

This and the entire preceding exchange makes me uneasy.

[Kazekirimaru]

I suspect it should

Aye. So, you agree?

no, I'm wondering how the hell Cabd is going about his read on me. it doesn't make any sense. the last time we played (AA:MFA) he correctly read me via meta, so I wanna know why he's taking this approach here instead. what do you think?

I think I don't know how Cabd thinks.

But the angle I see you sliding towards - "He's a meta player and reading me as scum so he must be scum" - isn't a good spot to be, in my opinion.

[Kazekirimaru]

Post #416 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm

Post #417 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm

you should have spaced this out by like at least 5 minutes, pie

rookie scum mistake

This isn't a thing. You must be joking.

the difference is that i'm town and you're not

it's funny watching how you react

I really don't think you sound so hot right now.

Muffin can be scum just for being this sure of anything before page 20, particularly something nonsensical.

I don't really agree with this line of thinking. I've been sure of scum from page 1(and correct) a few times. Sometimes it just clicks.

What does Scum SSK look like? For those of us who aren't so intimately familiar with his meta, what should we be looking for?

Activity.

(I honestly can't read him that well.)

also i just iso'd myself and it is shitty lmao!

Oh my God. What the fuck are you doing?

Is this

what

What?

Are you serious right now?

I understand your metaphor completely. I simply completely reject the notion that scum would not join the wagon.

So adamant. Anything's possible, you know.

So you don't care whether anyone else believes your laughable case on me? What are you going to do, lynch me all by yourself? You have fun with that.

I'm not sure how I feel about your confrontational attitude here.

VOTE: ms I don't think you understood my request

Really?

Mollie is confirmed town.

?

(Also, MS is scum for this post.)

I can see this.

(Also, Skull's ridiculously town. Like, seriously, RIDICULOUSLY town.)

I don't quite see this.

---

My vote is here, now.

VOTE: Muffin

Someone explain Cephrir scum to me, please. I must have missed the damning evidence somehow.

[Kazekirimaru]

the fact that no one has quoted soul sister for me is criminal.

do it now

Turn 1 Plains, cast Martyr of Sands. Pass turn.

[Kazekirimaru]

It's sangres, which is ffery plus Nacho. And I said that they were sounding like a combo of their town selves--not a combo of their scum selves. (Granted, have never seen ffery's scum self.)

I really don't understand or like how you call people town without even looking at their scumgames to see if there are similarities there. I've seen you do this a few times now in a few games. It's not alignment-indicative, I just don't like it. Why don't you bother to read scumgames of people whose scumgames you're unfamiliar with?

[Kazekirimaru]

Hello, townies.

Look at your vote. Now back to mine. Now back at your vote. Now back to mine. Sadly, it isn't mine. But if you stopped being lame and switched to pieguy, it could be awesome like mine. Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a boat with the vote your vote could be awesome like. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's a vote for that guy that looks scummy as hell. Look again. The vote is now a lynch. Anything is possible when your vote looks like awesome and not terribad. I'm on a wagon.

VOTE: pieguy

[Kazekirimaru]

ugh
I can see where this is going so I'll just claim now

chaos
avatar of yeshua
bodyguard

someone teach me how to play large games. I clearly am complete shit. sorry for just being a huge bother. i feel like I've let everyone down

/runs away

The format of this claim is not the same as my Role PM. Specifically the order.

Just noting. Probably nothing.

[Kazekirimaru]

So it's not like the claim being in that order is suspect. Borkie gives really solid fakeclaims, as we've seen in gears and blade.

Yeah, yeah.

mod: req replacement

Bleh.

Well that pretty much confirmed pie's slot as town, as much as I hate alignment-indicative replace outs.

Why do you always think ragequits are town?

ugh
if you're sure you all want me to stay i'll stay

if bork lets me

How convenient you change your mind after Cabd calls you town.

I think he was talking to venmar. How anyone could possibly find that townwall fake is beyond me.

I seriously don't fucking see what you see. I see a bunch of theatrics.

also pie muffina is pretty town!

What?

the wonders of a retard.

Stop.

---

Anyway, still think pie is scum. But apparently his lynch isn't happening.

UNVOTE:

Someone make a wagon for me to get on.

[Kazekirimaru]

lets recap

skulldug asks me why im hated and why i stop being hated

if this isnt a blatantly stupid attempt at rolefishing for flavor and other shit about my role i dont know what is

she theb completely proceeds to ignore the the fact that miller tracker and shit have been increasingly prevalent and insists that she cant be rolefishing and that i had already full claimed WHEN I HAVENT and then applies some twisted logic to accuse me of lying

like when i play mafia i have a few levels of stupid

this has passed the too stupid to be scum point

this is now too stupid to be town

LYNCH GODDAMN

I think you just lost cellphone reception.

[Kazekirimaru]

goddamnit.

Ok. moving you to leaning town.

but I think you're wrong about pieguyn.

Mind telling me about pie for a sec? I'm not very good at reading him, and I don't see how the supposed RQ makes him town.

Anyway, I was going to post that I really hope this moronic rolefishing discussion is over. @Skull: Claiming any sort of negative utility passive role (Hated, Miller, etc.) is standard. This permits the town to decide whether a policy lynch would be appropriate and simply makes the town aware of critical info. You pushed for MORE information than was provided. We were told that Orc is hated. That is all. You were fishing for more info about the role, when Orc told us only what we needed to know. He made the right play; you rolefished needlessly. If Orc had actually told us everything about his role, there would have been no need for you to ask any questions about it. The fact that answers to your questions would have required that more information be provided by definition means you were rolefishing.

Hm. Am I not taking this as seriously as I should be? Because I'm not feeling scummy intent behind Skull's questioning of Orci.

Man, I'm glad that I don't matter.
Wish I could emulate this in my scum-games.

Hi, Varsoon. Feeling better?

Got any reads?

Clearly Venmar likes bullshitting his neighborhoods. These are his first four posts in ISO. Obviously not random votes.

Wow. I feel a really defensive OMGUSy tone coming from you. Awkward.

Fuzzy

Fucking

Logic.

A step above Moonlogic.

Two factors, basically. First being laziness, the second being that I question the usefulness of doing so in the first place--second-hand meta is no substitute for first-hand experience.

Better than nothing, though. When you have to drive a nail, do you use your fists in place of a brick because it's no substitute for a proper hammer?

(*No, not really a scum bodyguard, as interesting a role as that'd be. Pie is likely scum fakeclaiming bodyguard.)

Why would scum fakeclaim a role expected to die before endgame?

---

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[Kazekirimaru]

Both mastin and muffin get added to my desired-vig list. I think mastin is scummier than zmuffin, which surprised me when I re-read. The attitude present in his earlier posts (before he started making unfounded assertions about alignment) in particular gave me good vibes. None of mastin's posts have been helpful in any way, nor is there any clear scumhunting intent behind them.

That MafiaSSK has managed to lurk this much is distressing. I am awaiting a kick-ass post after the prod.

Kaze's posts were really bad upon re-read. We are treated to walls like 262 and 363, which have tons of fluff and specious questions ("Why are you self-voting, Brian?"). None of the questions -- even the decent ones -- appear to lead to concrete reads or cases; the answers provided almost seem irrelevant to anything Kaze posts next. Then we have 298, which correctly calls mastin out, then a series of superficially townish yet insubstantial and useless rhetorical questions wavering. Hammy and forced, especially given the succinct nature of most of his other posts. Voting record is also spotty -- early Brian vote is fine, but then he votes mastin. Then he switches to pie with this terrible and useless post. No real explanation. I have no problem with wagon-hopping, but town players at least accompany or justify it with some sort of information acquisition from those wagons. That really has not happened, and Kaze has not scumhunted anywhere else either.

VOTE: Kaze

This is our first game together, right?

You'll learn to love me.

[Kazekirimaru]

Getting the entire playerlist to do anything within even a sizable time-window is going to be difficult.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm waffling about pieguy's sincerity, mostly because of how fast he changed his mind. But, that's putting me in his shoes, which doesn't really work.

But, by nature of his claim he will be sorted sooner by nightkill or later by town suspicion so I'm not going to worry about him right now.

But what if it doesn't get sorted out?

My problem is: I still think pie is scum. And I don't think he'd claim Bodyguard as scum unless he could play it off later in the game and explain his survival. But I'm not sure what play that would be, if that makes sense.

I just can't let it go and I'm afraid to just "let it sort itself out".

[Kazekirimaru]

Prodding Kagami.

This is concerning. We should be neck deep in some setup speculation by now. Instead, she's not posting here. Bad. Don't like it. No. Ugh.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kagami, is this really what you're choosing your scumgame to look like?

I'm disappointed.

[Kazekirimaru]

Is it bad that I wish to lynch her for her activity prod alone?

[Kazekirimaru]

ftr here's the games I looked at
scum: Open 424: Jungle Republic, Mini 1442: House of Cards
town: The Red Wedding

Does he only have three completed games or something? I wouldn't call that a meta-dive.

Btw orc skulduggery is so obviously town who cares about role fishing when you outed your own role lol

The wording here is weird. Rather than "he wasn't role fishing" you basically say we shouldn't care that he was rolefishing. So, do you believe he was rolefishing, or not?

Still town as always.

Pardon me if your words don't exactly make me feel better.

If there is any scum on the brian wagon, I would think it has to be metal sonic or muffin. Flandre's naked vote is not scummy, imo. MS's notebook pic is terrible, but I think if ms were trying to say "omg, only town would keep notes about the game!" he would have made the notebook much busier and taken a picture that shows more of his "notes." The notebook thing might actually be town.

So...is he or is he not scum?

Da Herp de derp derp. YOU ARE ALL WELCOME TO ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT KAZE AND LYNCH THIS CLOWN ANY DAY NOW

Calling for my lynch when you're not even voting me? Nice.

I mean, if you want a wagon, you should really try harder. Not that it'll matter. You won't mislynch me.

DON'T MIND ME. IM GOING TO FAKE BEING UPSET AND THEN JUST COAST AND AVOID ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING THAT LOOKS REMOTELY TOWN BECAUSE FUCK YOU I DO WHAT I WANT

Because blatantly ignoring people in-thread is a scumtell, right?

Also 819 is one of the towniest posts ever. Aegor is basically confirmed town.

Because he's not aware that MafiaSSK lurks 5eva? I don't see your point here.

Yes, but lets stop asking MS pointless questions and lynch people who are actually scummy.

Like MS?

You are doing exactly what I'm scumreading mastin for doing, except even more blatantly and going against the grain a little more.

I think you're pushing the "people with unclear reads are scum" angle a bit too hard.

[Kazekirimaru]

One is allowed to have unclear reads, but if they are going to push those reads as hard as they have been and present them as objective fact, that's when they need to be clear. Otherwise they're just hoping people will sheep them if they yell loud enough as opposed to because they actually make persuasive arguments. Yelling loud enough does work, which is why my suspects basically never get lynched except when I try to scream them (read: I am apparently remarkably unpersuasive in general) but it's also a scum tactic, and if they believe all their reads as strongly as they appear to it should be no trouble to articulate why. And yet, for instance, you became scum at the drop of a hat because quote-stripes-followed-by-lol-youre-scum.

I hear cases are scummy. ;D

[Kazekirimaru]

Join the club.

[Kazekirimaru]

The lack of push in any direction lately is...not something I'm used to working with. Huh.

[Kazekirimaru]

Eh. To think we would have had a wagon to analyze eventually. Ah, well. ._.

[Kazekirimaru]

So, Muffin lied. Eh.

What's weird is that Nacho didn't react in any way - positive or negative - to his IC claim.

[Kazekirimaru]

But, yeah. What's up, Muffin?

[Kazekirimaru]

Muffin claimed IC Bork can you confirm this? Otherwise we are speed lunching muffin

Why would we do that?

[Kazekirimaru]

Because lying to be an ic? Why would he lie? I dunno, reaction test I guess

To me that's a scum move

I mean way worse than stupid dayvig bullshit

vote muffins

I was feeling okay about your lynch before, but now I feel especially good about it. Cool.

[Kazekirimaru]

There's nothing to react to. Either the mod confirms or doesn't.

I'm pretty meh about bork not confirming it.

I'd expect you to at least remark upon it. "Wow, that's fucking stupid." Or something to that effect. I dunno. It just felt weird to me.

[Kazekirimaru]

kaze I think muffina is town cos of teh trolling

I'm inclined to agree. At least for now.

ok im wrong there is no reason to do that as scum unless you are getting lynched

there is no wagon on you

therefore it is not scummy

but it is rly trol!!!!!

I don't like the sound of this. Not in a "this is scummy" way but a "I might be voting a derpcake" way.

Ugh. I need to read up on you.

Ffery, Nacho, Kaze, et. al..... fuzzylogic pact. Serious offer. Very heavily considering it right now.

I'll bring the bean dip?

Can we lynch someone already.

Everyone list your top 4 and we wagon the highest count person?

Cool, you town.

[Kazekirimaru]

The following vote is a vote.

VOTE: Kagami

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm not sure what you expect, kaze, you know nothing yet has happened in this game that's likely to get much from me.

The setup is pretty well concealed still; the only interesting bit is the neighborhood, and the most interesting part about that is what sangres already poked at, and we have AD trying to get rubedo to flavor claim (presumably AD is informed?)

My favorites for town atm are venmar, sangres, muffin, pie, varsoon, AD, and probably skull. Lean town on the other neighbors and maybe mastin.

What do I expect? An active Kagami. The one I'm not seeing. Taking a passive stance and watching the posts go by is not something I've come to expect from you, Granted, there isn't much to speculate about as far as the setup itself, but that never stopped you from prodding around and being proactive before. You feel completely different this game, and I dislike it.

What's your point? Does that completely invalidate Pieguy's observations on Venmar or something?

Basically, I don't think the sample size is large enough. Drawing meta conclusions from so few games is folly. I mean - one, solitary town game? That's not enough.

If it concerns you, why don't you try to change it?

Oh, lovely! I had never thought of that! You're so gosh darn smart, you know?

This is your reaction to Muffin's fake-out IC claim, and it confuses the hell out of me. What wagon are you talking about here? Muffin's hypothetical future wagon that hasn't happened yet? Are you expressing disappointment because now we won't be able to analyze a wagon on a player who would have been confirmed as an IC in this alternate dimension? What if the IC claim had been real, he had a wagon going on him, and the people voting for him would have done so without knowing that he was an IC ahead of time? What information would you have gleaned from that and why is it any more useful than any other wagon in the game?

Kagami, Venmar, and Cephrir reacted to the IC claim the way that I would expect a Town player to react. You did not. Explain the reasoning behind your reaction, please, because I don't understand where you're coming from at all.

I didn't like how he went about it. If I were an IC that could activate at-will I figure I'd get a wagon going on myself(purposely, if need be), wait until I got to L-1, pop it off, and then try to pick out the scum from my wagon. Granted, it'd be a bit skewed since I may have to act a bit scummy to get it going, but you could still gather useful information from it. Scum swinging at the low-hanging fruit, for example. But, yeah. That's what I was expressing upset for. Get it?

[Kazekirimaru]

Never gonna happen.

Lemming.

[Kazekirimaru]

But...I'm town, though! D:

[Kazekirimaru]

(No, but seriously. I'm treating the neighborhoods as a non-entity in this game. One neighborhood with three in it? Likely has one scum, no more nor less. Multiple neighborhoods in the same game? Are likely randomly or at least semi-randomly generated. Thus, are not alignment-indicative. Thus, we should base reads on the players not on setup spec, but on the players themselves. Which still points to Metal Sonic being scum anyway. )

Oh, God. I'm in love with this bit of posting. Thank you for being town. My read on you just solidified.

(There were myriad ways Mastin could have pushed the neighbourhood angle as scum - completely ignoring them was not one of those ways.)

[Kazekirimaru]

Varsoon, can you do me a favour and self-impose a haiku PR for me? You almost have it down already.

If you need to type a longer post, I'm also a fan of sonnets.

[Kazekirimaru]

How much do you consider to be "enough"? If you and I have only played two games together and you act completely different in the second game than you did in the first, is it folly for me to draw conclusions from that? Should I be looking at every game you've ever played before I can consider myself informed?

- Enough is enough. One town game isn't enough, that's for damn sure.
- There's a difference between experiential meta and cold meta, quit setting up your strawmen in my yard.
- It couldn't hurt.

You seem to be arguing that Pieguy is wasting his time by trying to meta Venmar to figure him out. Why is that? As a Town player, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be appreciative that he did that work for you? Why was your first response to discredit Pieguy's efforts? (And no, you didn't just disagree with Pieguy -- you discredited him.)

- I'm not arguing that at all, actually. I'd just like more effort on the meta front since it's so easy to misread someone based on shallow metadives.
- I don't give gold stars for half-efforts. And there's a difference between discrediting someone and telling someone to step up their game. As a town player, I'd like for my fellow townies to be firing on all cylinders, wouldn't you?

How are these observations about Kagami any more valid than Pieguy's observations about Venmar?

I've played like 3-4 games with Kagami in the last three months or something close to that. So; my sample-size is larger, it's all experiential meta, and it's all recent and has certain aspects taken into account that playing with someone over a period of time can produce like perceived progression(or "trajectory" if you will.)

Complaining about low activity while doing nothing to increase activity is scummy. Do you agree? (Metal Sonic is doing the same thing, by the way, and it has not gone unnoticed.)

Not really. Not by itself. Though this particular question is pretty odd considering I never complained about low activity - I complained about sporadic activity.

So your magnificent plan would be to manipulate the other players by intentionally acting scummy so you can gather votes and then yell "Gotcha!" while analyzing the wagon to see who was voting for a player who was acting scummy. And that will help you separate the Town players from the Scum players...how, exactly? Because only Scum players swing for low-hanging fruit? Because Town players never try to lynch the scummiest player first?

Hey, I didn't say it was a

fantastic

plan, but it would get things going!

Do you think that Venmar is Scum for using this approach to base his Scum-read of Metal Sonic?

Not necessarily. Assuming that there is one scum in a neighbourhood of three isn't an uncommon thing for a townie, and I'm not sure Venmar understood the breadth of the situation at that point. He was only considering his own neighbourhood in a vacuum, correct? It's not until you entertain the idea of multiple neighbourhoods that hunting for scum within said neighbourhoods using the conventional wisdom of "1 in 3" becomes less effective.

[Kazekirimaru]

It's like you're trying to make me proud.

I want to make you proud, senpai! I'll be the very best, like no one ever was! <3

YES.

YES, and maybe not even then.

1) Playing scummily and having people vote you for playing scummily are very different
2) Even reasonable wagons can yield nice info

The plan sounds very reasonable.

Why does Kaze not have more votes?

Uhm...

But you agreed with me. And my plan. And stuff.

[Kazekirimaru]

So? Your "plan" was what any reasonable IC would do if he were not brain-dead. Giving you towncred for a total hypothetical with an optimal strategy is like giving you towncred for telling us to lynch scummy players.

Apparently not, since I got berated for said hypothetical plan. But, whatever.

I hope people know that Metal Sonic being in my neighborhood is not the chief reason for my suspicion of him. Admittedly, I used the "1 in 3" idea as a basis of taking a stronger look at MS and AFB at the beginning of the game, though that's really it. I first looked over AFB, decided he was probably town, and then moved on to Metal Sonic. If I got the same feeling on MS as on AFB then I would have concluded "all town neighborhood", but I clearly did not.

What are some of your other reasons, exactly?

Neighbors might be town.
No use worrying about it now.
Just lynch the damn scum.

<3

muffin's IC claim was stupid but null.

^ shit like this is why Aegor is obvious town.

Hes concise, clear, and down to business. (to defeat the huns).

Every townie WISHES they could be as protown as this guy.

Though succinctness is always appreciated, this can easily be attributed to playstyle.

Kaze's 810 is terrible. starts off with questioning why pie is town, ends up questioning mastin on why pie is scum fakeclaiming bodyguard. He just moved into my scumpile.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting it?

Nope. That's about right.

Do not investigate inside my neighborhood, I will policy lynch you. ESPECIALLY not metal sonic after that post.

Eh, what?

No, you are reading it properly. Kaze is a scummy butt.

Yet you're

still

not voting me.

Brian would be a PL because he hasn't done anything at all.

Since when do you LynchAllLurkers?

[Kazekirimaru]

I'd like that Kagami wagon to happen right about now. Mhmm.

[Kazekirimaru]

What's your read of Aegor, Kaze? You two have had some unusual interactions thus far. Tell me what you think of him.

Not sure. First time playing with him. I hadn't noticed him too much until recently. His "I like everything you said but I still think you're scum" attitude is odd but could easily be town paranoia.

Aegor is town because he isn't waffling on things that don't matter. He isn't misting things up. He addresses things that people are concerned about but focuses on what is relevant to him. Town.

If it's a gut thing don't be afraid to say so. Reasoning like this doesn't cut it, but I can appreciate a solid gut read, you know~

Yes Im not voting you because there are plenty of other scummy people who crave votes. You can wait.

It also indicates I have a tiny bit of read-uncertainty. Otherwise I would have said something like "You make me so proud".

Well you can put your worries to rest, miss. I'm town!

Its probably me. Im a bulletproof universal masonizer cop.

Universal?

[Kazekirimaru]

._.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'll happily lynch within

Kagami
MS
FS

from most to least desirable.

[Kazekirimaru]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flandre

ActionDan...could I interest you in

BEING MOTHERFUCKING BULLETPROOF?

I'll sheep you in exchange for motherfucking bulletproof, yesh <3

[Kazekirimaru]

Cool. This can be a thing.

VOTE: Flandre

[Kazekirimaru]

How is it relevant that this is your first time playing with him? Why was that important enough to be worth mentioning up front?

Because it's more difficult for me to get good reads on people I'm not familiar with.

[Kazekirimaru]

So you don't care whether anyone else believes your laughable case on me? What are you going to do, lynch me all by yourself? You have fun with that.

I'm not sure how I feel about your confrontational attitude here.

Did you ever figure out how you feel about this?

Pretty sure it's just your tone. It's not dissimilar from your other games.

[Kazekirimaru]

Does anybody else see it?

[Kazekirimaru]

Do you have an alt named fuzzylogic?

So mean.

[Kazekirimaru]

I didn't say I disagree, I said it was mean.

[Kazekirimaru]

claim~

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm concerned about the absence of a counter-wagon

There's no counterwagon because it's probably a town wagon.

But the rest of these plebes won't listen to me when I say you're scum, so, this'll have to do. Deadlines and all that.

[Kazekirimaru]

That said, anyone else want to wagon ScumKagami with me? Last chance.

I'll also accept MS. I really don't want to see that guy make it to LyLo at any rate.

Really. This FS wagon feels meh and I'm not the hugest fan of compromise.

[Kazekirimaru]

I still don't believe you, Kagami.

[Kazekirimaru]

I really wish I had picked up on your scent earlier so I could do my hypertunnel-the-gut-scumread thing.

In fact, screw this noise.

VOTE: Kagami

~4 days is plenty of time for me.

[Kazekirimaru]

Help me lynch the scum today, Varsoon. We can be friends. I'll bake a cake. Friendship cake.

[Kazekirimaru]

Who's the scum, Kaze?
Don't call it on one of my friends.
I want those people to stay alive until LyLo because they make the game fun.
They're exempt by rule of friendship.

The person my vote is on.

I don't like kaze I would vig him if I were a vig

Why do people always say/do this?

Am I THAT bad?

As always, I've got plan, but talking about the plan invalidates the plan.
It's okay, you probably won't get it.
Or like it.
It's okay.

Hipster strategist.

Mastin, you were townreading this scummy bullshit iirc?

I'll let you have your SSK townread, but this is scum, bro.

Please let me know which head keeps saying things like this. I'd like to know which one of you is the idiot.

Unless it's both of you. That's plausible, too.

---

More voting with me is required for good lynch.

[Kazekirimaru]

Suffer not for the Kagami to live.

[Kazekirimaru]

Originally it was that I felt like your opinion on pie took an unnatural direction, and it felt like the suspicion toward AFB didn't feel legit, coupled with a lack of a solid scumread. I don't really hold that opinion anymore. I want to hear more from kaze, because that's likely the direction my vote is headed.

I bet it is.

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: flandere

this is going to be one of my derp games, i can tell.

Me too <3

IF I HIT MY HEAD AGAINST THE WALL ANY MORE IT IS GOING TO BREAK HELP

I find it helps if you switch walls occasionally. That way, they wear evenly.

Already did.
You can play coy and all like "Expose me then" like you're invincible,
but it's kinda obvious
you're scum.

Obvious, eh?

Care to spell it out for those of us playing at home?

varsoon down - when i've played with him-town, his reads at least make some sense. here I don't gt his sangres read at all and his other pushes (Brian, Flan) feel opportunistic. I also don't feel much of a presence or force from him which I'm used to feeling in all of his towngames, even while he's been here.

How do you feel about (I think it was)sangres's assertion that Varsoon is more active as scum?

And do you think Varsoon's brief absence due to sickness possibly has any bearing here?

She's scum, that's the reasoning.

You going to do anything other than take potshots this game?

[Kazekirimaru]

can't tell if serious

or just mental

[Kazekirimaru]

Probably both. Like I said if we are ever pretty sure there's an SK in the game then AFB will be the first place I will be looking.

Ahem.

Do you genuinely believe that AFB slipped in 467?

[Kazekirimaru]

Sure it does! Our PM has grey text in it and some flavor about going insane tdue to being in the military and fuck lal these people they need to die.

Whats not to assume?

I hate it when people do this.

[Kazekirimaru]

WIFOM is a game that Town rarely seems to win.

Only you can help prevent WIFOMfires.

[Kazekirimaru]

Ohai.

Cabd's reaction of "LOL THANK GOD THEY KILLED THAT FUCKER" gives me bad feels.

Yet I'm still in tunnel mode so I can't be bothered to care right now.

VOTE: Kagami

[Kazekirimaru]

The idea of Nacho being too smug to be anything is laughable in and of itself.

(I'm reading them as lean-town, btw. Gut feels, mainly.)

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm afraid some of you are going to be rather disappointed with this lynch.

The only consolation I have for you is that for some bizarre reason, bork has seen fit to make the most bad-assed gynoid ever, capable of generating the Hilbert Effect at a level a hundred times more powerful than a space ship and able to pew pew laser beams like no one else, a mere Vanilla. One of the disappointments of this game was that I got my favorite character, but she's apparently on the same level as canaan and miyuki. I figured there had to be some enabling or activation mechanism, but apparently there either isn't or someone is terrible at picking up crumbs.

Anyway, at least two scum in {kaze, ceph, mastin, cabd, metal sonic}, probably three. Unless you've all taken crazy pills, or the events of last night have magically changed the game-state in a radical fashion, you'd be hard-pressed to look at my wagon and say "gosh, this is a very nice, town-driven wagon! Surely it's on scum!"

I love how you make absolutely zero counterpoints except "you're all crazy".

VOTE: zMuffinman

Him mafiassk one of Angry Frat and cephir

For scum

Can we take care of this one first, pretty please?

can someone unvote

coz even if kagami is scum, i'd prefer this day didn't end so quickly

i really don't like the wagon composition after mastin but eh

Go away. When you find scum, you lynch it. Fuck this "drag out the day lolol" meta that I keep seeing.

Kaze is probably scum, but you'd be crazy to think we both are.

Okay, I have to ask. I'm just so curious as to how you're going to justify this.

Why am I scum?

Brian keeping his vote on himself while his wagon climbed (and climbed all the way to L-1) just didn't strike me as something scum-Brian would do.

Are you kidding me? Brian has been apathy personified as of late.

Too smug to be...
in any danger of dying? at all?

Do you jest or is this a serious question?

More ammo for the Skull-scum train.
Also, who is the only player in this playerlist who would kill Varsoon N1?
SKULL SKULL SKULL

If you derail my precious Kagami wagon I will eviscerate you and use your intestines for a motherfucking jump rope.

Flandre has been in games before?

No but I remember the account itself being mentioned in passing before.

yes, let's lynch kaze. You can call it a bus.

VOTE: Kaze

I love how you're trying to set me up to go down after you flip scum. It won't work, miss. I don't get mislynched very often and you know that.

---

For the love of God, Buddha, Arceus, and [insert your favoured deity here] lynch this scum NOW.

[Kazekirimaru]

The whole "You're crazy if you think we're scum together" bit was 100% set up.

[Kazekirimaru]

Oh, please. When you flip, it'll look like distancing. You know what you're doing, miss. You're going down and you're doing your best to take someone with you.

Now, I asked - why am I scum?

[Kazekirimaru]

Your push on me lacks criticism. Especially in light of some of the AFB posts above, which are very suspicious if that's bro and not AP. You know many of those beliefs are false.

Expound, s'il vous plait?

[Kazekirimaru]

Yes, that's inherently incorrect. You're a setup and role player, I know that. Just because they're reading you right for the wrong reasons doesn't mean I'm reading you wrong.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'll cross that bridge when I need to.

[Kazekirimaru]

better eviscerate me fast: i'm addicted to derailing shit wagons so i can't help myself with this one

If only that were true.

:no:

[Kazekirimaru]

Lynch scumKagami

do it

now

please

[Kazekirimaru]

well fuck me sideways

rubbish

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Kaze, for the reasons mentioned in post 1693.

Because I'd hard-tunnel someone like that as scum. Kay.

2good4me

---

My drive for this game has taken a serious dive. I'll get on it sometime later. I'm rather upset about being wrong twice in a row.

[Kazekirimaru]

Blah.

Okay, so, as far as I'm concerned the lynch today is between Dan and SSK - the two unconfirmed who targeted sangres the other night

So, first off

Activate Code: Beta Epsilon Delta Omicron

I'd really like to know what this jazz was all about. As well as this comment:

goodbye forever MafiaSSK

[Kazekirimaru]

To be clear: I'm not scumreading Dan as of yet. I'm just trying to piece stuffs together.

As far as really, really wonderful things go - I'm fresh out. And I doubt I'll have more in stock anytime soon the way I'm feeling atm.

[Kazekirimaru]

Not exactly sure how, but...SSK is town.

?

[Kazekirimaru]

Alright, I've self-loathed enough. I'll get back on this.

So, disregard everything despondentKaze said yesterday. I don't want to poke at ActionDan at all.

SSK claimed tracker, eh?

So, I was thinking about something this morning regarding the watch results and the nightkills.

Cabd, SSK, pie, and Dan all targeted sangres Night 1.

pie claimed Bodyguard, and Cabd claimed watcher(which got us results). Both of them flipped Town last night.

What I'm wondering is, why did pie die instead of sangres last night? Cabd I get, but the other kill looks odd to me. pie was essentially a VT after the save, and killing him only really served to help validate the "someone NK-targeted sangres N1" theory(especially since pie was 1-shot bulletproof). Killing sangres would have left us with pie, SSK, and Dan alive to duke it out and cause more chaos today, which sounds like a better position for any anti-town role to hide in.

The only explanation I can think of is that pie was 100% without-a-doubt an SK kill and the SK is trying to direct attention to the group that targeted sangres N1. This further leads me to believe that the SK is definitely outside of the aforementioned group - probably someone who has kept their distance from the situation.

But, anyway, can someone explain to me how they're even entertaining the idea that none of the group is scum? pie, a 1-shot BP bodyguard who targeted sangres N1, is now dead. Cabd is dead. One of SSK or Dan had to have targeted them with a NK. (I know there's a theory floating around that none of them NK'd sangres and a Scum Ninja is to blame - but Occam's Razor won't let me entertain that idea.)

So, are we waiting for a tracker CC or what? Because I'm at a loss as to the direction this game is going.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze: SSK can potentially be town because we don't know how pie's role worked.

You think that of the four that targeted sangres, not a one was anything other than Town?

[Kazekirimaru]

What I'm wondering is, why did pie die instead of sangres last night?

Simple answer: Because Pie protected Sangres again???????????????????

AP Conspiracy answer: Mafia team thought Pie was just a doctor after having failed to kill Sangres so they targeted her (her BP already being gone)?

But he was only a 1-shot...

...wait.

now I see the problem.

[Kazekirimaru]

1 Shot bulletproof you dunce.

I read it wrong. Hush. >:

[Kazekirimaru]

Why would sangres die? Do you know something I do not?

It made sense to me in the scenario I apparently contrived in my head earlier.

You are still assuming that pie was targeted. How on earth do you justify that assumption?

Confusion.

[Kazekirimaru]

Okay?

I'm not exactly on-point right now. I got that. Notice my vote isn't on anyone atm.

What's your take of the situation as it is?

[Kazekirimaru]

I really don't understand why we're discussing "leashing" the hypothetical Serial Killer at all. That should never be a thing. Players with conflicting win conditions can never successfully work together.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm tempted to start look for possible scum outside the sangres interactions with hopes that it'll be less of a clusterfuck to deal with as the game progresses.

[Kazekirimaru]

I once played in a large off-site last summer as Scum. We rolecop'd and outed the Double-Voter SK around night 5 and basically told them to vote with us or die. They complied for that Day and we went into the next night with 2 scum, 1 sk, and 2 town alive with the entire Scumteam outed. We said to the SK that if he killed a townie we'd call for a stalemate. You know what happened the following night? Crosskills.(I was one of the dead Scum at that point, ftr.) Town won that game.

That taught me never to cooperate with other factions ever. I'll hold that policy until I die.

/tangent

[Kazekirimaru]

Mastin is the Serial Killer.

I'd like your explanation for this in particular.

[Kazekirimaru]

Mainly because I've been kicking around that idea.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze has been blending in a lot, not really doing things. Asking a lot of questions, a bit fence-sitty. Blending in in other words.

Is this a joke? Tell me it's a joke.

Or are you scum looking for an easy hop on my wagon? I could maybe forgive you for that - but I'd appreciate more effort than "lol he's blending in" when I deathtunneled Kagami for half of Day 1 and all of Day 2.

Justifications for my poolings:
Day 1: I went for 2 on, 3 off because 4:1 either way makes little sense as a scum move. Scum generally spread out their votes, bunching them up isn't something they do naturally. I went for 3 off the wagon because believing only 2 scum were off the wagon would mean I would have to think that only one of Kaze, MS, Venmar, MafiaSSK, Mastin and muffin are scum. Which I don't.

Days 2 and 3: 2 on, 2 off seems more likely that 3:1 either way. 3:1 either way is possible but unlikely and I find 2:2 more likely.

Still sounds arbitrary to me~

[Kazekirimaru]

lol guys look at Kaze attempt to discredit his attackers.

Yep, don't care.

[Kazekirimaru]

I thought the lot of you were apprehensive about the whole ActionDan/SSK deal because there were variables up-in-the-air? Why does it feel like the wagon is going full-speed-ahead despite this?

[Kazekirimaru]

Like, don't get me wrong - I'd probably be down for some SSK lynching today. But the speed of the wagon doesn't seem to reflect the conversations going on and that's giving me bad feels.

[Kazekirimaru]

Noooo stop speedlynching SSK, guys. How am I supposed to regain towncred if I'm not on this wagon~?

Then again you could all be dead wrong.

Doubtful, though.

Let's do this, then:

Stating intent to hammer

[Kazekirimaru]

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

[Kazekirimaru]

=
Is there stuff you think needs to happen before nightfall?

Meh.

Yeah, fuck that, you're also a scumbag.

This again? Don't make me laugh.

You can call me groupscum all you'd like; I fit as groupscum like, ridiculously well, between my "cheeky" bus-vote on Flandre (and later removal of it and never going back on), a nightkill on pie fitting my MO, my white knighting of SSK, and probably dozens of other things that could be used to justify me being scum. But not a chance in hell am I the serial killer and any town player who's even REMOTELY familiar with me damn-well KNOWS it.

Or

or

or!

You are.

FUCK WHAT THE RESULTS SAY. FUCK IT BEING INCRIMINATING. This is wrong. The people on the wagon are jumping on it blindly. They're not thinking. They're not analyzing. They're blindly hopping onto it without a care. They're not stopping to think, and feel what the wagon is actually like.

It's a damn scum-driven wagon. There are at least a third of a dozen number of possible explanations in which SSK is town. Ninja, strongman, pie kill, redirector. I don't know which happened. But I know that any of them are possibilities. Perhaps some are not probabilities, but this. is. NOT. a. good. wagon. Period. It's rushed. It's forced. It's being done without hesitation, without a second thought, because anyone who DOES give it would be thinking the exact damn same things that I am.

This whole rage thing really doesn't suit you.

Wagon speed isn't everything, really. When things make sense, they make sense.

IF YOU WERE EVEN REMOTELY TOWN, YOU WOULD BACK THIS DAMN STATEMENT WITH A VOTE.

Right back at you?

I'm starting to think you NEVER draw town these days. You realize your vote is still on MS, right?

As I said, I don't know for sure. It could be a ninja-kill. It could be that the scum flat-out killed pie N1. This is one of the bigger ones in particular, since I've flat-out told you guys that a scum-me would do precisely that and kill pie. If you have even a shadow of a thought of me being scum, that should be giving you pause for thought, if maybe I'm scum flat-out telling you what I did. (Which I do do as scum!) Which would make SSK town. (Aside from zMuff's insane theory of SSK being a scum-tracker.)

Uhh...how does this make you town? Are you trying to make an argument out of WIFOM?

---

Hilarity has ensued!

Once again the town has been thrown into disarray by scum! THIS is the part where they laugh at us~

Bunch of sheep.

Mastin just skyrocketed to the near-top of my scumlist. Methinks SSK is his bro, or he's just WK for the towncreds.

[Kazekirimaru]

I think that it would be pretty dumb for mastina to be all ack! ack! ack! the sk is BAD! lynch him! only to be the actual sk. I mean he is telling us that the sk is unleashable and it seems like a stretch for him to set himself up like that if he was caught out.

This created situation is exactly why I think SK-Mastin is viable.

[Kazekirimaru]

No. I think if Mastin is an SK he's going to try his hardest not to be caught in the first place.

[Kazekirimaru]

Nah. Do or die. Caught SK is dead SK. I'd not expect otherwise.

[Kazekirimaru]

when there are a few players here who agree with the leashing of the sk philo? nah

he would play it as a vig and if caught then let himself be leashed I would think. that is how I would play it

so I find this convo interesting cos neither you nor skull are going with that mastina could possibly be grpscum

General disagreements here.

But yeah. I just haven't gotten the feeling of groupscum Mastin. Plus I don't think she'd be the type to be leashed. I mean, that seems sort of degrading - and I take Mastin as the sort with a certain amount of pride.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'm totally being inconsistent pronoun-wise and I thoroughly apologize. Force of habit, etc.

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Mastin

woot woot

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze is a terrible lynch.

[Kazekirimaru]

Not at all. ^^

So, by my count, SSK is at L-2.

VOTE: SSK

Now, he's not.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze is a terrible lynch

INSIDE INFO?

My role PM says he's town! :O

[Kazekirimaru]

I don't think he claimed flavour.

[Kazekirimaru]

Ascetic reflexively RB's actions targeting them, yeah?

Anyone have their ability inexplicably fail lately?

[Kazekirimaru]

Can someone explain to me how Mastin isn't the SK?

Muffin's definitely not the SK, btw. He replaced in for me as SK a while back in a C9++ and his play there was completely different. I doubt.

I see scumreads on me everywhere and I want you all to know that you're stupid. ^^

[Kazekirimaru]

If you folk need me to die before LyLo so you don't fuck up endgame I'll happily hop on that sacrificial pyre, though. Just because I love you all so much and I've been total fail this game.

[Kazekirimaru]

But I'd really prefer not to die

in that case help me see town mastin so I don't tunnel her

[Kazekirimaru]

You claiming rolecop?

[Kazekirimaru]

Ascetic reflexively RB's actions targeting them, yeah?

Anyone have their ability inexplicably fail lately?

What purpose does this question serve? We already know that Cephrir was an Ascetic.

I want a response to this question from Kaze.

It served no purpose. I was just pretending to do stuff while actually doing nothing.

[Kazekirimaru]

it is a well known fact that I don't bus on this site and I certainly wouldn't do it so retardedly on d1

Ugh. Oh, goodness. Excuse me while I clench my chest in mock-pain.

I hate when people do this.

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Mastin

I'll just leave this here.

[Kazekirimaru]

Warm up your capslock button, then. Because this is where I'm going today. ;D

[Kazekirimaru]

k. Then lynch Kaze and lynch me tomorrow if he is town.

Why are you so stupid?

Did you recently experience severe trauma to the head?

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Aegor

I am............free.

wait nvm L-1. Still, everything applies.

Wow.

I bet this took you all of five seconds to think up. Good job.

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Aegor

[Kazekirimaru]

See you later.

[Kazekirimaru]

Why do you think Kaze did not vote me right away? I just exposed either the SK or the last maf.

Because every time Kaze hammers something bad happens.

But then you told me to and I just couldn't resist the temptation any longer.

[Kazekirimaru]

Also, you're a fuck.

If you're town I wish for this to be our last game together.

[Kazekirimaru]

mass claim today?

I'm down. Call the order.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze claimed to be Shion Uzuki, VT

good now let's fucking kill him

nonono I claimed Shion Uzuki, Maiden of Mary Magdalene.

VOTE: Skull

[Kazekirimaru]

Um...no, you distinctly said that you were Shion Uzuki and expressed disappointment at being a VT since apparently she's one of the main characters. What do you hope to accomplish by making it seem like I'm lying? When the missing posts are restored in a few days, everyone will be able to see that that's what you said.

You conveniently left out the Maiden part, though. Probably hoping nobody will make the connection between my role and Kagami's. For all I know you're hoping to bolster the support for my wagon and maybe even get a derplynch before the site is given dat Full Restore. That's what I'm feeling from you.

[Kazekirimaru]

So, if you'd all be so kind as to not lynch me like a bunch of sheep blindly following the fool shepherd in Nacho, I'd appreciate it.

[Kazekirimaru]

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters. I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

I don't believe you.

Kagami was a VT. You also claimed to be a VT. What kind of "connection" are you looking for?

The fact that we're both main characters, "X of Mary Magdalene", and town.

Dude, what? I'm doing the exact opposite of that: I'm suggesting that we wait for the missing posts to be restored so everyone can see with their own eyes that you messed up your fake-claim.

What did I mess up, exactly?

Let's assume for a moment that what you're saying is true. Let's say that I'm Scum, you're Town, and I'm trying to push your mislynch based on incorrect information that will be proven to be incorrect once the missing posts are restored. Why on earth would I do that? What would I, as the final Scum player looking to survive long enough to hack through ten other players, possibly have to gain by doing something so witheringly stupid?

You tell me? For all I know you're hoping to get a pass on "lol that push was so bad he must be town because the last scum would never do that".

All I know is you're misrepping me, you're doing it intentionally, and I wish for your death.

[Kazekirimaru]

Hm.

Well then.

[Kazekirimaru]

It makes sense that T-elos was scum though since it was built to destroy KOS-MOS or whatever.

It makes no sense for me to be scum flavour-wise.

And yeah.

[Kazekirimaru]

I know that's a weak argument but I feel like it's valid here so yeah

[Kazekirimaru]

You're a fucking idiot.

[Kazekirimaru]

What's making my stomach turn is that ffery is letting this happen. She's never misread me before.

[Kazekirimaru]

Unless I can get some shining ray of townie light from that slot(that'd likely require him to give me a good reason for pretending like I'm screwing up my claim) my push is going to continue in that direction.

The feels are bad. And the scum's goose is likely cooked anyway so I'm not putting anything past the last scum. Making desperately bad pushes for derptown cred included.

[Kazekirimaru]

What?

I claimed Maiden of Mary Magdalene the very first time I mentioned my claim. Yeah, it got eaten in the server mess but it's there and you'll see it when it's fixed.

[Kazekirimaru]

Mastin's town because the SK flipped. Mastin's not likely groupscum so I'm alright with that slot now.

[Kazekirimaru]

Are you really surprised?

[Kazekirimaru]

What?

I claimed Maiden of Mary Magdalene the very first time I mentioned my claim. Yeah, it got eaten in the server mess but it's there and you'll see it when it's fixed.

and the current reason you're tunneling skull is because you think he noticed you claimed maiden of mary, drew the connection, and thought telling you that you claimed VT was shuffling everything under the rug?
because that's not a good reason so i'm hoping i'm misrepping you somewhere

Sounds like downplaying my claim to me, mhmm.

If I'm wrong may the Christian God strike me with magic missile.

[Kazekirimaru]

Why do you sound like you're talking to a townread?

Do you usually try to convince your scumreads that they're being stupid?

[Kazekirimaru]

What are you, my father? D:

[Kazekirimaru]

VOTE: Metal Sonic

But I expect a second look at Skull tomorrow(if there is a tomorrow) plz and thx <3

[Kazekirimaru]

Hmkay.

Well, anyhow, I suppose this vote works too. MS scum would help explain why Varsoon was killed.

[Kazekirimaru]

Well, that was easy.

[Kazekirimaru]

he said without voting.

[Kazekirimaru]

What part don't you believe?

"I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene."

I literally

just

told you.

Spoiler:

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters. I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

...and the mistake you claim I made is...where?

So your argument here is that I'm intentionally being stupid just to avoid suspicion? I won't speak for you or anyone else, but I'm not going to degrade myself and act like an idiot just to secure a win as any alignment. Fuck you for even suggesting that I'd do such a thing.

Oh, what the fuck ever. I don't want to hear it. There's no such thing as pride in Mafia. Especially as scum.

Where have I intentionally misrepped you? Quote specific posts where I did that. (Here, let me save you some time: You can't because they don't exist.)

You said you were Shion, you were a VT, and you expressed disappointment/confusion at being just a VT since Shion is apparently one of the main characters.

I do not recall you saying anything about Mary Magdalene.

Lies by omission are a thing.

Unless Shion is just a safe-claim, of course.

And yet, it isn't.

It's not gonna happen, chief. I'm not pretending.

Right, sure.

[Kazekirimaru]

The sad part of this is I can see you being this awful as any alignment.

[Kazekirimaru]

Aw, you want to start an ad hom war with me, do you? Adorable. <3

[Kazekirimaru]

Are you being this dense on purpose? You didn't say anything about Mary Magdalene during your initial claim, and then when you claimed a second time, you insisted that you did say something about Mary Magdalene (when you didn't) and acted like that tidbit was important enough to add legitimacy to your claim.

This is a legitimate lie and you are one ballsy motherfucker.

My pride is more important than an online forum game. Just because you apparently have no shame when you play as Scum doesn't mean you should assume that everyone else feels the same way.

Whatever, man.

Now where, oh where, did I misrep you? I have said noting untrue.

Ugh.

I'm just going to stop talking to you lest I start yelling.

[Kazekirimaru]

iirc the first post for his claim was him saying his full character claim including the mary magdalene part, then in his next post he said something like "in other words, VT"

Basically this.

[Kazekirimaru]

I feel this has been blown way out of proportion and I'm to blame.

Just jail me tonight if there is a tonight or whatever.

[Kazekirimaru]

Except no.

[Kazekirimaru]

You are legitimately a dumbass. I'm willing to admit that I could be misremembering, but "not remembering" and "lying" are not the same thing.

Ah, admittance. We're making progress, darling! ;D

[Kazekirimaru]

...what?

[Kazekirimaru]

Do you really expect a 20-player game to have 5 Scum players and a Serial Killer?

I didn't expect 1522 to have 3 scum and a bulletproof ninja dayvig serial killer, but hey.

[Kazekirimaru]

tl;dr cephrir's iso's associative tells point towards kaze as the last scumbuddy.

It's amazing how you find exactly what you're looking for when all you see is what you want to see.

Confirmation bias is a beautiful thing.

[Kazekirimaru]

That said, I have no idea what you're seeing, so you must wear some strong prescription cogdis sunglasses to see anything in the posts you quoted.

[Kazekirimaru]

tl;dr cephrir's iso's associative tells point towards kaze as the last scumbuddy.

It's amazing how you find exactly what you're looking for when all you see is what you want to see.

Confirmation bias is a beautiful thing.

Wait, fuck.

UNVOTE:

My gut is ahead of my brain, it seems.

Need to think.

[Kazekirimaru]

I think someone said that Metal Sonic looks really scummy when he's town. I can't remember if I heard that this game or elsewhere.

I need to read things.

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze is a really good actor

But I saw him act as scum before so I won't fall for it again

Not really.

Which scumgame of mine did you play in?

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze is a really good actor

But I saw him act as scum before so I won't fall for it again

Not really.

Which scumgame of mine did you play in?

That's a compliment why don't you take it?

Okay, thanks.

What game was it?

[Kazekirimaru]

Kaze claimed to be Shion Uzuki, VT.

Maiden of Mary motherfucking Magdalene. It's a part of the role. >:

[Kazekirimaru]

if i survive today i will iso everyone tomorrow this riddle must be cracked


the reason why i dont iso today is because too many players

I feel like you keep saying you're going to do stuff

but you never do stuff.

[Kazekirimaru]

Also

What game was it?

[Kazekirimaru]

Yeah, this time I left it out specifically to piss you off.

What are you so preoccupied with this one irrelevant detail? I haven't said it before now, but my moniker is "The Sweet Sister." What does that change? Not a goddamn thing.

Because it's my role. Legitimately my role. Just because I'm functionally a VT doesn't mean that my role magically isn't my role anymore.

[Kazekirimaru]

Hey,

Lynch MS -> Skull in that order plz thx.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[Kazekirimaru]

hmm, okay, guys lynch metal!!

[Kazekirimaru]

Pidgey I'm sorry but I don't remember playing with you

Or maybe the game we played as really boring so I didn't care, did I seem that way in the game we played? I usually tend to remember the players I play with in important games so yeah.

Hey MS, speaking of - what game did we play together where I was scum?

I wasn't going to make a big deal of this question until you decided not to answer it twice. I'm just ever. so. curious.

[Kazekirimaru]

Suffer not for the Metal Sonic to live.

[Kazekirimaru]

I swear you're trolling.

Like, you're blatantly accusing people who accuse you of being scum. You're not even being subtle.

[Kazekirimaru]

ok man if kaze and venmar aint scum then u can lynch me tomorrow

i just wanna see u kick the bucket first cause i think ur legit scum probably

Please disconnect your internet.

[Kazekirimaru]

and i dunno about kaze but i still don't have any strong feelings about him. though i don't remember anything he's done lately.

That's because I haven't really done anything lately.

This game is pretty much a sure win and I'm just kinda riding the wave as of late.

[Kazekirimaru]

Lynch MS please.

[Kazekirimaru]

Hi kaze. You comfirmed. Please pat yourself on the back.

Eh? o.o

[Kazekirimaru]

Ohh, right. I was JK'd.

[Kazekirimaru]

I'll totes sheep this vote, btw.

VOTE: Venmar

[Kazekirimaru]

Yay~