Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[pieguyn]

FUCK YEAH
I'M EXCITED AS FUCK FOR THIS GAME AND THE SCUM TEAM IS GONNA GET FUCKED
LET'S FUCKING GO

vote: Kaze

bc he's always scum \o/

[pieguyn]

no he's just always scum

even if he has a town role PM

[pieguyn]

no he's just always scum

even if he has a town role PM

discredit

discredit

discredit

I'm just messing with you ilu Kaze <3

inb4 you're scum

[pieguyn]

If I don't have townreads on orcinus and Metal Sonic by page 10 we should lynch them, just a heads up.

explain plz

also why SSK?

Nah, Brian's pretty scum.

VOTE: Brian

is this a serious vote

@AFB:

what's your read on sangres so far?

[pieguyn]

explain plz

[pieguyn]

how do you think he feels weird?

[pieguyn]

huh. is it bc of his comment about zmuffin flipping super-saint? scum are more aware of super-saints and in this case it wouldn't even affect him. so I'm inclined to agree that post feels off

vote: Brian

what are your thoughts on sangres so far?

[pieguyn]

If there really is a Super Saint in this game, why do you say that it wouldn't affect Brian?

bc he was only the 2nd (?) vote on the wagon and supersaint only kills the person who hammered

Skull is town, Kaze is scum.

explain Kaze scum. how sure are you of Skull town when there's no scumgames to compare it against to make sure she can't fake?

Kind of. I got wagonned for backtracking off of you, so probably town.

no you got wagoned for mentioning a super-saint for no reason. scum are more aware of super-saints and you're the first to bring it up

Why not? It looks like a good wagon to me with all them sheep votes. Regardless of what I flip, I think you guys can nail the entire scum-team with the information we've garnered thus far.

what's with this reaction? you just sit there and go "oh, I tried to RVS wagon Jesus, poor me" and then make sarcastic comments like this p much invalidating the whole point of the pressure wagon. it seems scum motivated (you're relatively sure you won't get lynched via this wagon so your first intent is to get said wagon off you). explain plz

pieguy is actually scum

care to explain why?

Yeah I really did not get this. I feel like anyone should be flipping out rather than continuing to joke about that wagon, which personally I thought got way too damn serious. I can maybe see this as a scum attempt to seem calm in order to avoid reacting poorly. I'm not sure I see anyone naturally reacting this way.

this

Are ya now?

I like Skullduggery for town. I thought I'd have warm fuzzies about Kaze by now, but I don't.

what's giving you reservations about Kaze?

I get the feeling I'm just going to end up sheeping your read on him bc I can't read him for shit. the way he's playing seems like what I know of his towngame, but I'm a bit biased bc we saw the same thing re:supersaint comment and I find the town motivation in his actions is p transparent if you look for it

also is it just me or was your entrance weak as fuck?

wall

mastin, this is your scumgame right? you basically just walked up and immediately put all your pieces in place. this is not a behavior I would expect from town-you. the way I see it, town-you stays light and waffles a lot, and then sometime later when your picture of the game state is correct you figure it out and start owning the fk out of the scum. this doesn't seem like what you're doing here. here it seems like you're trying to create an air of confidence which is smth I know I've read you do as scum

not to mention you voted me before you even finished reading the thread. if you hadn't read the thread why would you park your vote on me so soon?

also, fyi I'm taking it as a scumclaim if you don't townread me once I get going. so you might wanna drop this now

Oh!

Just realized.

Fuck yeah, this game's a town win.

BRO is town.
Nacho is town.

They never lose.

We win.

I'm also feeling great this game, which helps. I feel like the town players here are already in the process of synching up, just like last Xeno game, and that the scum are trapped on the outside for the most part. I generally don't feel like instantly flipping the switch, but this game is going so damn awesomely that I kinda sorta feel like I almost could flip it right here and now and be that pseudo-scumhunting-god.

holy fuck you really are scum

vote: mastin

also, where are you currently at with zmuffin?

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Vote mastin

close enough to fixed to be readable

get out of my head. it feels to me like he's trying to appear more confident than he really is to get people to listen to him and this doesn't seem at all like what I know of his towngame. what do you think of mastin's tone? also, thoughts on sangres?

No but really, mastin, several of your stances are very unsubstantiated and it bugs me.

wanna lynch mastin with me?

also, can I get confirmation on the meta I'm using with him? the way I see it scum him tries to appear really confident to get people to listen to him and it looks like that's what he's doing here

also, what's your current thoughts on ffery?

[pieguyn]

@ffery:

thoughts on mastin? also what's your current read on Cabd?

[pieguyn]

I usually get a resounding town read off his first 2-3 posts. I didn't this time. There is definitely is something different about the entrance to this game.

anything specific that feels different?

and do you think this can be attributed to his alignment as opposed to it being a large game? mb I'm just biased bc I'm bad at larges, but the dynamic in large games is definitely different than smaller games and I find my play is really different from small to large games

I want Nacho's thoughts on Mastin. And then I'm going to remind myself that in the Walking Dead game, I was having misgivings about Mastin from the start.

what happened in that game and did it have anything to do with his tone?

do you disagree that scum-mastin tends to come across more arrogant and/or confident?

[pieguyn]

what's your current read on Ceph?

and how sure are you of Skull town? the only thing giving me reservations about her is that it's a meta-based read and she doesn't have any scumgames to verify she can't fake as scum. I assume you don't think she can fake this kind of posting as scum right

[pieguyn]

I feel like he's trying to look like he's tryharding to squeeze into the townblock by default. But there is just no substance. I would agree with your characterization re: aggressive/confident, though I don't particularly know his meta. It would be really useful if that was the case (ie he would work the way I do, which would help me figure out what to look for). I don't have any read on sangres yet, I'm going to just sit here and wait for them to obvtown. Then again, they kinda had me snowed in 167 because I gave them a pass too quickly. I did have some doubts there though, I guess I should just count my doubts about them as like triple.

what do you think of 233?

Pieguys walls on this page feel town. But I dunno.

Eh, sure.
UNVOTE:

what was the basis for your initial scumread on me?

what do you make of mastin townreading you based on 3 posts? do you two usually read each other that well or

[pieguyn]

@Cabd:

first one is a open question for you as well. also, do you agree with my reasons for mastin-scum, or is there smth else to it?

[pieguyn]

you

[pieguyn]

Unvote
Vote: Pieguy

care to explain why?

also you have about two seconds to explain mastin town before I run your ass into the ground for being his partner

Surprised me, too! I literally had no clue I was going to come in and be like, "wow, that...seemed surprisingly easy". Which is the main reason I haven't already flipped the switch; generally if I think I'm this good, it's because my reads have gone horribly wrong rather than actually being that damn good.

so you as town came into this thread and immediately posted a full reads list despite 1. thinking your reads might have gone horribly wrong and 2. some people only having like 1 or 2 posts? if you're having doubts about your reads then why would you immediately declare a reads list like that? in imperishable night when you were having doubts about your reads you outright POSTED how unsure you were about your reads. but here you feel perfectly comfortable announcing firm reads on people who only have like 1 post?

this is what I don't get. your thought process doesn't make any sense to me. if you were considering "flipping the switch" this early and thus thought there was a chance all your reads could be terribly wrong, why wouldn't you say so considering

you did the same thing in imperishable night?

instead you immediately default to "I'm this good", which is why you're scum. there's no transparency. instead you act all confident when you're really not

Town, hands-down. It's not an absolute read, but it's a reasonably-strong read all the same.

so you somehow have a "hands-down" town read despite the fact that he's done fuck all so far? defend your buddy harder

[pieguyn]

Not immediately. My reads list is the sixth in my iso. But yes. I did. Number of posts doesn't matter; I've got the read and I'm going to say as much.

if number of posts doesn't matter why are you drawing attention to the fact that six posts != immediately? discrediting much?

anyway, your posts before that were all part of your catchup. so you posted it immediately when you were done catching up. it's p fking obvious that's what I meant. conclusion: you are grasping at straws

Yeah? I mean. I have the reads. They're probably wrong, but they're what I'm feeling all the same.

thx for proving my point. a town you would be up front and SAY your reads are probably wrong. but you didn't. you tried to pass your reads off as stronger than they really were

this is scum motivation no matter who it is but the fact that I remember reading you generally pull shit like this as scum makes me even more sure

Not sure you understand what that expression means. I basically have said exactly this--that the reason I haven't flipped the switch is because I'm generally not this accurate early on. Basically, I feel, gut-wise, that my reads are awesome enough to basically flip the switch now. Rationally-wise, I know better. I'm not that good, even though I FEEL like I am. Basically, I AM confident. I just know said confidence will eventually waver.

if "rationally-wise, you know better" then why do you seem to have no problem with declaring a lynch pool 24 hrs into the game? it doesn't make sense to me. if you're not confident, why wouldn't you do smth like WAIT FOR MORE CONTENT TO TRY AND CONFIRM OR DENY SAID READS? this is what any rational person would do, including town you

I'm also feeling great this game, which helps. I feel like the town players here are already in the process of synching up, just like last Xeno game, and that the scum are trapped on the outside for the most part. I generally don't feel like instantly flipping the switch, but this game is going so damn awesomely that I kinda sorta feel like I almost could flip it right here and now and be that pseudo-scumhunting-god.

TOWN:
MafiaSSK
Angry Frat BROs
Sangres
zMuffinman

Skullduggery
Kagami

Varsoon
macmollie
Cabd
Brian Skies (fairly interchangeable with Cabd, but overall weaker)

LEANING TOWN:
ActionDan
orcinus_theoriginal

LYNCH POOL:
pieguyn
Aegor (mutually exclusive with Cephrir)
Cephrir (mutually exclusive with Aegor)
Kazekirimaru
Metal Sonic
Flandre Scarlet

NULL:
Venmar

So basically, 7 or so names for scum candidates, maaaaaaaaaaaaybe eight if you bump orcinus down--I need a little over half that. (I'm

guessing

five scum for this game, but it's difficult to be certain if it's four or five.)

I'm otherwise preoccupied, so I'll see if I can analyze the details later.

like tell me these posts come from someone who thinks their confidence is going to start wavering at some point. your actions don't match your words. I also noticed some buddying in 213 re: the town players syncing up and the previous xeno game. you got caught BS'ing and now you're just making shit up to cover it up

Yep! Join the club with Cephrir, Cabd, and several others chastising me for it. It's there. It exists. I have it. That's the best explanation I can give.

playing the victim now are we? you do realize that just bc multiple people point out your terrible scummy read doesn't make your read any less terrible or scummy?

[pieguyn]

Zmuffin,

Why do you need to be asked?

And why do you know mastin is town?

i needed you specifically to ask for this to be funny

meta

when I finish running mastin into the ground you're next

[pieguyn]

muffina is town!

explain

[pieguyn]

heh

you really have no idea how to impersonate your town self

oh no I'm really scared
not. this feels like you're resorting to scare tactics to get me off mastin

He's saying stuff for no reason and when pressed for reason gives more no reason.

did you notice zmuffin did this with his read on me? also did you notice they're defending each other for p much no reason?

read: how do you like the chance of mastin x zmuffin team?

But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.

Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.

it's not just the fact that his reads suck it's how he was acting all confident about them and trying to force them on everyone when he really shouldn't have been. see my case on him

also, if scum-mastin has more chops than this why don't you think he'd take the "I don't care" route as scum?

Re Pie, he feels off and to explain would be a PITA, so.... later.

what the fuck is this? why are you reading me based on feeling "off" when my scumgame is like one of the most transparent things ever? given you like meta, I'd expect you of all people to know this 0.0

Since you know how the role works and I wasn't in any danger based on positioning, why can moving my vote only come from a scum me?

no the point is scum are more aware of super-saints and you mentioned one for some unspecified reason. even if you're not directly in danger, thinking about super-saints is smth that probably comes more from a scum mindset

Also, if you look at the nature of my wagon, of course I'd be sarcastic. It just looked like an RVS wagon. If I got lynched as a result (which I did think was a possibility, especially after my self-vote), then this game no longer becomes my problem and I can focus on my other games.

holy fuck this is town as fk. given Brian likes scum and I'm p sure he said he thinks playing town is like homework, this outright fatalism is smth I'd never expect him to do is scum

[pieguyn]

@Cabd:

answer this plz

what the fuck is this? why are you reading me based on feeling "off" when my scumgame is like one of the most transparent things ever? given you like meta, I'd expect you of all people to know this 0.0

[pieguyn]

i don't believe he would be this confident about a read on me this early on, either. and even if he were confident about a read on me, he wouldn't be expressing it in this manner

incorrect. I'm p sure of you scum. why do you think I wouldn't be confident in a read on you this early?

as for why, you were basically sitting there and doing fuck all at the start of the game. and the way you were doing it feels forced. it seems like you tried to imitate your usual trolling but overdid it almost. normally I see it for a few posts but in this case it continues all the way till 134. I also don't get what the hell is up with you and mastin's reads on each other

as for your suspicion on me, I asked you twice about your read on me and when you didn't explain it I figured you were just trying to troll and/or manipulate me. so I wasn't taking it seriously. I figured if you were trying to troll me the best response would be to ignore you and see how you went from there

the fact that you chose to take this specific angle with ffery specifically makes me even more sure you're scum who made the mistake of thinking I'm mislynchable this game

[pieguyn]

ZmuffinMan - Null leaning scummy. I dislike his posting about the Brian wagon. Very controlled posting, nothing that looks very town motivated. Keeps insisting that Pie is scum like hes hoping someone will bite the bait? Which Kagami evidently does here

get out of my head. it feels like he was trying to imitate his usual town trolling but ended up forcing it

Uhhh, who gives a fuck about meta?

afaik the reason everyone was townreading Skull was bc she was playing the same way as all her other games. so I wanted to make sure she couldn't fake as scum. it seems there was more to it than that tho

[pieguyn]

so in other words you don't have an explanation for any of my points

ok

[pieguyn]

I'm not commenting at all on pieguyn yet. As for Mastin, I mostly want to see what Nacho thinks right now.

Oh mastin is town as fuck.

explain plz?

weren't you the one who said that objectively bad play from a good player is a decent scumtell (correct me if I'm wrong)? bc that's exactly what's happening here with mastin. he's declaring reads that make no sense and declaring a lynch pool 24 hrs into the game despite apparently not being confident in his reads and/or thinking they might be really off

also explain your scumread on me plz

Are you self-metaing?

And I see where you're going with this. I dislike it.

no, I'm wondering how the hell Cabd is going about his read on me. it doesn't make any sense. the last time we played (AA:MFA) he correctly read me via meta, so I wanna know why he's taking this approach here instead. what do you think?

But basically, that post boiled down is insisting that there's a contradiction between me feeling awesome about my reads and having confidence in them, and me knowing that I'm likely wrong and said confidence will later waver. When, bluntly, there isn't; the two are entirely separate things.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?

there was more to it than that and you know it. the problem is how, DESPITE knowing you're likely wrong, you make no mention of this whatsoever, and instead DECLARE A LYNCH POOL 24 HOURS INTO THE GAME. whereas a town you would take extra care to make sure everyone knows your reads might be all wrong, explicitly because there's a good chance they're all wrong. you have said before that town wins by maintaining a high level of transparency and a high flow of information. and your actions in imperishable night where you waffled for all of D1 REINFORCE this. here, there is no transparency and you are trying to force your reads down people's throats, despite apparently thinking they might all be wrong

and now you completely ignore my case on you, and proceed to misrep the fuck out of it? you're trying to cover up my case on you like it never even happened

you are not scumhunting. you are spreading mist and hoping people get lost. everything you've done - the BS reads, the way you have no explanation for said reads, your made-up confidence, buddying, ego, your BS response to my case on you, and now the way you misrep'd the fuck out of me - are examples of this. die :>

How and why are Scum more aware of Town-aligned Super Saints? More aware than whom?

scum are aware of super-saints bc if they get hit by one they're down a member out of nowhere. whereas town generally loses a lot less from suddenly losing one extra member

I honestly think mastin has just decided he's going to blatantly ignore all my posts and hope no one cares. Usually this is the sort of thing I would say scum would never be ballsy enough to actually do, but he keeps using the same fucking points while completely ignoring that I've pointed out they are illogical (specifically the people whose alignments he keeps insisting hinge on my alignment for no reason).

I made a separate post for this because I'm starting to wonder if anyone is reading my walls.

THIS X 2983479523498198978

if you're WK'ing me I'm just ogingto cry

[pieguyn]

ffery,

do you think you can read pieguy? what do you think of his posts so far?

i think he's really shit at imitating his town game and he doesn't quite know what to say to me. all his responses to my suspicion of him have felt unnatural

this is scummy as fuck. ffery has already said that zmuffin usually doesn't reach out to her like this. so what's the real purpose of this post?

this is a calculated appeal to ffery to get her on his side for a mislynch on me down the road. zmuffin KNOWS that ffery gets suspicious of me bc my posts come across as forced or unnatural a lot. and he also knows that ffery and I work together a lot. he is appealing to this angle to play up paranoia about me and manipulate her into siding against me

it also conveniently came at a time of day where I'm usually not online, but close to when ffery gets online. although this is speculation and might not mean anything

then, when I called him on it 341, we get this

I am scum, look at my scum-post

nothing you said here looks town

i don't believe you actually think those are good reasons to think i'm scum, and i don't believe you'd be that confident about it

I reached out to him to help him fix his read on me and he completely shut me down instead of trying to explore my lines of thought. in other words, his plan failed so he's packing up and going back to his QT to hide

[pieguyn]

you should have spaced this out by like at least 5 minutes, pie

rookie scum mistake

LOL

you know I make several posts at the same time all the time. you are pushing a meta case that is complete BS. and you know this. fail

[pieguyn]

hey zmuffin

if you're somehow town let me show you how terrible you're being
1 2
1 2
1 2
1 2

this was just from a quick glance at my ISO in this game

this is so terrible there's no way you can be town. you're a better player than this. you rolled scum against me again and are just trolling me. I literally can't think of any other explanation for this shit

[pieguyn]

you usually don't put post links in quotes nor put the full username of the person you're quoting

this is not why I think you're scummy, but it did reassure me I'm right here

tell me how this complete pile of BS I just wrote is any different than what you're doing. if you're somehow town (and this is a big fking if) then this is your formal invitation to wake the fuck up and quit being an idiot. otherwise, thx for making this easy for me

[pieguyn]

Thing is, you're pushing the idea that I'm not being transparent with these things, that I'm not mentioning the doubt, but the thing about that is...well...it's kinda obvious. I haven't been mentioning the doubt specifically because of the transparency. It's there in my posts. I don't need to say it every single time when it's laid out. You also are pushing the idea that "OMG reads list = absolute!", when you of all people would know my reads lists change...a lot.

this is complete BS. tell me where there's obvious doubt in these posts

Spoiler:

I'm also feeling great this game, which helps. I feel like the town players here are already in the process of synching up, just like last Xeno game, and that the scum are trapped on the outside for the most part. I generally don't feel like instantly flipping the switch, but this game is going so damn awesomely that I kinda sorta feel like I almost could flip it right here and now and be that pseudo-scumhunting-god.

1. ActionDan
^Nullish-town. Need more from Danny boy, but his posting thusfar sorta seems town.

2. Aegor
^Scummy. Can be scum with Kaze easily, but I see him as town if Kaze is town. I also see him as town if Cephrir is scum.

3. Angry Frat Bros (BROseidon + AngryPidgeon)
^Town. These guys are townposting like champs.

4. Brian Skies
^Also town. Brian Skies gives off the aura of a town player who doesn't give a crap about the wagon on him. He's relaxed, he's casual, and he's also not being a lurkaderp; he's still putting time, effort, and analysis into the game.

5. Cabd
^Town. I admittedly do not know Cabd that well; I'm not sure I've seen his scumgame and am not intimately familiar with his towngame. But his posting so far just feels like town, and that's good enough for me.

6. Cephrir
^Scummy, and opposite of Aegor: if Kaze's town, he's scum. If Aegor's scum, though, he'd be town.

7. Flandre Scarlet
^Nullish-scum.

8. Kagami
^Town. I can see the aura of towniness emitting from Kagami right now, and it is clear as can be.

9. Kazekirimaru
^Nullish-scum. While I can see elements of a town mindset present, for the most part, what I'm seeing just doesn't

feel

town. Right now, I'm actually guessing town with Pie/Cephrir as scum, but it easily could be Pie/Aegor/Kaze.

10. macmollie (mac + pirate mollie)
^Fairly decently town. Mollie hasn't done much, but what she has done gave me an immediate townvibe from her.

11. MafiaSSK
^Also town. This is SSK's townmeta, through-and-through, and his posting has been goodposting, too.

13. Metal Sonic
^Nullish-scum. Not liking his posting so far.

14. orcinus_theoriginal
^Nullish-town. Could be scum, but the claim makes me lean slightly towards town.

15. pieguyn
^Scum. This isn't a town pie. I don't know how I know this, but it simply...

isn't

.

16. sangres (fferyllt + Nachomamma8)
^Town. Sangres's posting so far has definitely been that of their towngame.

17. Skullduggery
^Also town. Meta points help, but I also found that Skull's posting regardless of meta still looked town overall, because it didn't feel forced, it didn't feel faked; it felt like natural town posting.

18. Varsoon
^Also also town. This is Varsoon's townposting.

19. Venmar
^Null. Don't really remember Venmar's posting, which is a bad sign.

20. zMuffinMan
^Town. This is a town-Muffin, through-and-through.

I'll be back later to compile this into an official list; short on time, so gotta go.

TOWN:
MafiaSSK
Angry Frat BROs
Sangres
zMuffinman

Skullduggery
Kagami

Varsoon
macmollie
Cabd
Brian Skies (fairly interchangeable with Cabd, but overall weaker)

LEANING TOWN:
ActionDan
orcinus_theoriginal

LYNCH POOL:
pieguyn
Aegor (mutually exclusive with Cephrir)
Cephrir (mutually exclusive with Aegor)
Kazekirimaru
Metal Sonic
Flandre Scarlet

NULL:
Venmar

So basically, 7 or so names for scum candidates, maaaaaaaaaaaaybe eight if you bump orcinus down--I need a little over half that. (I'm

guessing

five scum for this game, but it's difficult to be certain if it's four or five.)

I'm otherwise preoccupied, so I'll see if I can analyze the details later.

go on, tell me exactly what in those posts makes it "obvious" you're doubting your reads. you got caught and now you're literally pulling shit out of your ass to cover it up

[pieguyn]

Gonna steal zMuff's train of thought on me, but turned around. There's a fundamental difference in how pie approaches the game as town and as scum, and how his tone comes across as town and as scum. Pie's a lot like me in that regard. And I'm telling you that this is not the town pie I am familiar with.

and what makes you think you're familiar with how I approach the game?

sry but I'm going to have to say this is outright laughable. you quite clearly have no idea how I go about my reads on people, nor how I go about pushing them, nor how I approach the game. you are positioning yourself as being familiar with my game when we only have 1 completed game. and this still doesn't work even if you've meta'd me (see below). this is quite obviously BS

His posts are not analytical; they're a faking of analysis. They're not meant to find scum; they're meant to lynch town and manipulate town.

and it's not manipulative how you're basically just repeating "lolol pie is scum" to every single person WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING, MISREPPING, AND DOWNPLAYING MY CASE ON YOU? YOU ARE TRYING TO COMPLETELY DISREGARD MY CASE ON YOU AND WRITE IT OFF LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT MEANT TO "MANIPULATE TOWN" AND "LYNCH TOWN"?

by playing this card, you are implying you yourself are scum. srsly, tell me what's not "manipulative" about these posts:

Spoiler:

(This is probably because pie is scum and kaze likely-town.)

Cephrir is probably scum, yes, but not certainly scum. For me, that's pie. What do you think of him?

Yes, because it was one likely formed by scum, in contrast to ours.

Indeed. Though that post is admittedly a much better display, it is still not his town self. Not even close.

Because he's probably scum?

Yep, pie for sure. Minus the bit about him having a town mindset. Squinting really hard, I could maybe take random pieces of his iso and rub them together and maybe sorta-semi-think it could vaguely resemble townposting, but aside from that...

A lack of explanation is the reason.

That mean you scumread Kaze?

Mastin, when you attempt to turn in your AP Calc homework with just answers and no work shown, don't be fucking surprised when everyone thinks you cheated and already had the answer sheet.

Fun fact:

I used mental math for concepts that most people couldn't do without calculations for

years

. In fact, my mental math often proved more accurate than my written math, because mentally, I came to the right answer, but when trying to do the processes that I had skipped, I made mistakes--sometimes obviously, or sometimes knowing they were mistakes yet not being able to figure out *why* they were mistakes.

I was later forced to learn to write it down because my teacher refused to give credit for the mental math, in spite of me having absolutely no method of cheating and my answers largely being right anyway. Understandably, I was worse at math for a while before I learned how to adjust.

So, yes, I can be surprised that people think I cheated, because I'm an honorable guy, for the most part. I expect me saying "No, I didn't cheat; that'd just be cheating myself. Why would I cheat?", means that people won't think I'm cheating, since I wasn't. I just did it, naturally. Granted, there were some things I needed to work at--to study. But for the most part, math was intuitive. I grasped the concept, and really really

got

it. (I did have trouble tying separate concepts together, though. Doing one, was fine. Doing the other, was fine. Doing both, my mind broke down.) Anything I write down is mostly a formality in math for me having already worked out the answer. The mind's faster than the hand.

...You probably need a better metaphor.

Indeed, because you have to be on a trip in order to see me as scum.

there is literally no analysis in any of these posts. instead, you're basically just repeating "xxx is scum" and "I'm town" and hoping people will buy it. your entire ISO besides your first post is smth called "argument from repetition". YOU ARE SPREADING MIST AND HOPING PEOPLE GET LOST.

second, if I'm not doing analysis then what the fuck am I doing now? I'm looking at your posts and quite clearly demonstrating how you're full of shit. third, what's scummy about trying to lynch someone you think is scum? go on, tell me. oh wait you can't bc you're just BS'ing yet again

and besides, why the fuck is this even alignment indicative? if you supposedly know so much about me, you should know that my posts come across as manipulative and forced a lot. however, you're conveniently ignoring that bc it's inconvenient for all the mist you're spreading around. you're so transparent

His posting's forced, his emotions are largely faked, and all-in-all, his posts just don't have the same heart as the town-him.

I'm finding it difficult to have heart this game when you and zmuffin are both making a terribad push on me for shit reasons and even more people are looking like they'll buy that shit. so, if you seriously believe this, just go fuck yourself and stay the fuck away from me. you obviously have no idea how I play this game and it's laughable how you're trying to position yourself as familiar with my play when you're obviously not

[pieguyn]

pie/kaze back & forth is strange. not so much kaze's posting but pies, especially agreeing with kaze about brian so quickly when his line of question appeared to be questioning kaze on his brian vote. plus I'm not so sure about the "scum are more aware of supersaints" theory he seems to be floating around in this series of posts.

it's page 2. sure it's weak but on page 2 it's better than anything else so far

what do you make of Kaze agreeing with it?

what is the purpose of this line of questioning, pieguy? because the way I see it is you solidifying a scumread on mastin then asking him for a read which doesn't really make sense?

I wanna know what his read on zmuffin is. if he's scum it forces him to take a stance on someone who's probably his partner, if he's town then I'm getting a legitimate opinion

I think Pieguy is also scum. I'm taking down notes now as I play, thanks MS for the motivation. You're still scum though.

care to explain why?

it's also noted how you say this but you don't get involved by hopping on my wagon or offering actual analysis. fueling the fire from the sidelines much?

[pieguyn]

I keep reading this and wondering who is this ffery you're talking about.

what does this mean?

are you referring to how you're not playing solo? bc I don't see what that has to do with this

it's also noted how you say this but you don't get involved by hopping on my wagon or offering actual analysis. fueling the fire from the sidelines much?

ITT you forget I am voting Metal Sonic and am developing other scumreads at the same time. ITT you also attack everyone who calls you scum. Nice.

and what does this have to do with my point against you?

you're calling me scum while contributing absolutely nothing to the case against me. what does me attacking everyone who calls me scum have to do with this? nice deflection

not to mention if that was even true I'd be attacking practically the whole thread by now

[pieguyn]

you never answered it

can you answer plz

[pieguyn]

no that's not my point

I'm wondering, given you always use meta to read me, why you're choosing to read me based on feeling "off" instead

unless that's based on meta?

[pieguyn]

what does me attacking everyone who calls me scum have to do with this?

Thanks for admitting it scumbutt.

except that's not even admitting it. it's me asking, on the assumption that I am, what would it have to do with anything? I even said it wasn't true in the exact post you quoted

not to mention if that was even true I'd be attacking practically the whole thread by now

also I love how you completely dodge all my questions

[pieguyn]

Your post looks to me kind of like a nuanced attempt to preempt/discredit some future suspicion on my part.

no it's me alerting you to what he's doing so that he won't be able to manipulate you as effectively if he's scum

sure my play this game is really chaotic, but if you do end up being suspicious of me I'm not going to be all like "omg you got lost in the mist!!1"

[pieguyn]

ugh
I can see where this is going so I'll just claim now

chaos
avatar of yeshua
bodyguard

someone teach me how to play large games. I clearly am complete shit. sorry for just being a huge bother. i feel like I've let everyone down

/runs away

[pieguyn]

yes

i obviously can't play large games for shit

i don't want people to waste time scumhunting/wagoning me so i'm just claiming now bc it was obviously going to happen anyway

[pieguyn]

normally no but i was looking forward to this game and i've completely fucked up the opportunity for me to enjoy it

[pieguyn]

bc i think you're town

that post is also my lame attempt at a crumb

do whatever you want

[pieguyn]

i am neverp laying in a large game again

i might as well quit mafia. this game isn't enjoyable for me anymore. no matter how much effort i try to put into games either i just lose or people say i'm playing like my "scum meta" and completely ignore everything i try to say or do or they find some other way to piss me off and i can't fucking have any fun at all when shit like this keeps happening


i play this game for self-improvement and because i like solving puzzles and talking with other people. in all areas of my life, i feel that i'm not good enough. so i hate the feeling when someone is suspicious of me. i fucking hate it. i just fucking hate every bit about it. it brings back nightmarish memories of all my failures in life and how it's all my fault. i play this game and try to improve because it makes me feel better. and i love when i figure something out and i can talk about it with people, bounce ideas off them, and figure out who the mafia is.

i was excited as fuck for thi sgame because i love bork and i love every one of you all. i was a bit worried because i know i suck at large games and i didn't want to fail everyone like i have so many times before. and i was having a lot of fun. then mastin and zmuffin roll in with this complete bullshit "meta" argument which is incorrect. and no matter how many times i express how wrong it is and show how full of shit they are, no one listens to me. no one believes me. and on the inside, the only thing i can think is that i'm not good enough. i somehow failed and it's all my fault and no matter what i do nothing i do will ever be good enough. and i'm just a hopeless fucking idiot who has no idea how to play this game. and the harder i try, the more people turn against me. even people i know and who have played with me before and who i love think i'm not good enough , that i've failed at my purpose, and that i deserve to die

and i just can't take it


mafia is not the game for me


i used to love this game

mod: req replacement

goodbye

to mastin and zmuffin: if i ever sign up for another game stay the fuck away from me

[pieguyn]

ugh
if you're sure you all want me to stay i'll stay

if bork lets me

[pieguyn]

ok i'll stay

sorry bork for all the trouble

[pieguyn]

mastin and zmuffin

i can't believe they'd fucking pull smth like this on me

venmar because it feels like he's coasting and slipping through the cracks

that's all right now

[pieguyn]

idk
probably mastin

[pieguyn]

because i think zmuffin might somehow be a misguided townie. even though he's not

mastin on theo ther hand is pretty flagrantl y full of shit

[pieguyn]

I could have written this.

(((piegyun)))

mollie

[pieguyn]

also pie muffina is pretty town!

explain

Mastin is ridiculously town and not to be lynched ever this game, dear god.

explain

Oh right, zMuffin is still hillariously scum. Anyone want to quicklynch that?

me

[pieguyn]

town: me, Skull, sangres, Brian
null-town: Kaze, cephrir, AFB, venmar, orcinus
null: everyone else
scum: mastin, zmuffin

i tried to do a meta dive on venmar bc I got the feeling a lot of the things I disliked about him (coasting, slipping through the cracks, ignoring questions, shutting down lines of communication) were based on playstyle. it ended up being over really quickly. there was a blatant feeling of responding to things just for the sake of it and trying to appease everyone by always responding to them in his scumgames. meanwhile his towngames seem way more similar to what he's doing here in terms of attitude and behavior. he tends to focus more on building and talking about his own reads. he also keeps a lot of cards close to his chest, and I noticed evidence of this here in 723 where he lays out his case on MS. I think this is what I thought his coasting actually is

ftr here's the games I looked at
scum: Open 424: Jungle Republic, Mini 1442: House of Cards
town: The Red Wedding

[pieguyn]

pdodge

[pieguyn]

pdodge

It's like you're trying to make me proud.

what does this mean?

[pieguyn]

i'm rereading and working on isos bc there's so many people it's hard to keep track of everyone. i think this will be my preferred strategy for large games

town: me, Skull, sangres, Brian
null-town: Kaze, cephrir, AFB, venmar, orcinus
null: everyone else
scum: mastin, zmuffin

varsoon down - when i've played with him-town, his reads at least make some sense. here I don't gt his sangres read at all and his other pushes (Brian, Flan) feel opportunistic. I also don't feel much of a presence or force from him which I'm used to feeling in all of his towngames, even while he's been here.
aegor up - his push on skull feels like a town push and misses a lot of the marks i look for in a scum push. i get the same feeling from his other pushes. he's not afraid to go on the attack even when he'll possibly take heat for it. i'm getting a ton of mixed vibes from him though. ex. in 819 he adds both of my scumreads to his "vig list" but it doesn't look like he even thinks zmuffin is scummy. and so i get the feeling he might be buddying/WK'ing me
macmollie up
cabd up
flandre down - 539 this is kind of positional bc it's based on my reads on Aegor and Skull, but oh well


SCUMPOOL: Dan, Flandre, Kagami, SSK, mastin, MS, Varsoon, zmuffin

vote: Flandre

@Aegor:

why is zmuffin on your vig list?

@Nacho:

run me through mastin town. i'm a bit less sure of my scumread on him but i still don't get why he's apparently town as fuck. his entrance was straight up buddying. when pressured he tends to just write said pressure off in one way or another, either by ignoring it and acting like it never happened or not taking it seriously and expecting it to go away. basically there's this pattern of trying to discredit anyone who scumreads him (me, Cephrir, Cabd) which i associate with scum behavior. on reread (and ignoring anything to do with me) his play seems town but there's nothing unfakeable in there and i don't wanna let this go until this gets resolved

@zmuffin:

talk to me about Brian. are you familiar with his meta of strongly preferring scum to town? if so, why is he so low on your reads list? it seemed like he gave absolutely no shits about this game whatsoever and his replace out reinforces this

[pieguyn]

and I somehow managed to get prodded while writing that post
go me

[pieguyn]

Pieguyn, what's your reasoning for the Flandre vote?

she's scum and there's a wagon on her already. i'm not worrie dabout the lack of counterwagon bc i agree it feels like people are looking for excuses to get off said wagon and i don't have much luck at all with wagon analysis before an actual flip

How do you feel about (I think it was)sangres's assertion that Varsoon is more active as scum?

And do you think Varsoon's brief absence due to sickness possibly has any bearing here?

my read on him isn't due to activity. from what i can tell he comes across as a lot more forceful as town whereas as scum he doesn't have much of a presence at all. his behavior here seems like the latter. his activity is a site wide thing and i don't think it means anything

what's your current read on him?

(Psst. These are all signs of a town-Mastin. But you didn't hear it from me. Honest.* )

*No, but seriously, they are. Yeah, I've basically invalidated it all since *I'm* the guy saying it, but, well, it's true. The things you're listing, with a great degree of probability, are likely the exact reason people are townreading me.

@_@
i can't possibly look at this as town behavior. i don't think town could ever purposely evoke a feeling similar to the one i had, several times. and it's infinitely more useful as a scum strategy

anyway, in that case, what kind of reaction should i look for from a scum-mastin? and how can i tell you're not scum faking your town behavior?

Mastin: I refuse to accept dicrediting your detractors instead of confronting them as a towntell, you've made it clear enough that you don't care what I think but I'm still gonna say that anyway~

for anyone keeping score at home this is why i'm townreading ceph. he is either town or scum who has literally managed to share my exact thought process on just about everything so far

[pieguyn]

I just realized if I'm wrong about mastin my scumpool is basically a bunch of lurkers and/or people who are impossible to read

this is a sign at least one of my townreads is wrong

brb recalibrating

[pieguyn]

Ffery, Nacho, Kaze, et. al..... fuzzylogic pact. Serious offer. Very heavily considering it right now.

what does this mean?

[pieguyn]

yeah but I don't get what you all mean by a "fuzzylogic pact"

[pieguyn]

Also why the hell did Varsoon die. I was sort of expecting Sangres or maybe Dan.

This does support pie-town, at the least. Generally, scum not killing obvious targets means they fear protection.

no. bad. discuss something worthwhile instead of wasting time talking about me plz

and while you're at it answer my question

anyway, in that case, what kind of reaction should i look for from a scum-mastin? and how can i tell you're not scum faking your town behavior?

(Every post after this one needs to contain a vote for Kagami)

So why do you need to rush this so fast? Don't you think with all the suspicion on me from day one that there's likely to be an investigation on me? You don't feel like waiting for it?

what the actual fuck?

Jesus, if I had an ability that killed my entire wagon, I'd just need cabd to vote for me and we'd probably win.

no literally what the fuck. I've never seen you like this. what happened

[pieguyn]

town: me, Skull, sangres, Brian
null-town: Kaze, cephrir, AFB, venmar, orcinus, Aegor, macmollie, Cabd
null: everyone else
scum: mastin, zmuffin

Dan upx2
orcinus.... down?
was considering moving AFB down but nope

vote: Kagami

[pieguyn]

@Skull: I'm still pretty happy with a Mastin, although...

VOTE: Sangres
Dude talks too much. I don't like the cadence.

^^^ afaik Varsoon was the only one who had a scumread on sangres. idk if it means anything though

[pieguyn]

on that note liking macmollie and maybe Aegor for scum in the 5 man neighborhood. Gooner is still town as fuck and is a terrible lynch

[pieguyn]

[quote="In post 1587, sangres"][/quote]
Flandre's massive fencesit on Aegor/Skull makes me think both are town and she was trying to redirect suspicion way from the real scum in the neighborhood

which makes me lean towards macmollie even more

[pieguyn]

We spent a lot of time looking at this last night.

Not the we you think.

mollie mentioned being in a neighborhood yesterday. So am I. All the players in that neighborhood were mentioned in Flandre's post 539.

As nacho, put it, either Flandre knew of our neighborhood and its composition, or it's a batshit coincidence.

Flandre's massive fencesit on Aegor/Skull makes me think both are town and she was trying to redirect suspicion away from the real scum in the neighborhood

which makes me lean towards macmollie even more

[pieguyn]

and why would you want that?

I don't want scum knowing who I'm likely to protect. if I tell them who I protected they'd be able to make a better guess as to who I might protect next

[pieguyn]

what the fuck is going on

I'm trying to catch up and by the time I finish reading one page there's another new page to catch up on

[pieguyn]

I am happy... to be of service ... /die

ok wrong character but still
go town ~

[pieguyn]

/honorable bow
I'd like to apologize for what I did this game. I completely just lost my composure and gave up. I feel like complete shit about it and I know it probably made the game less fun for a lot of you. I will absolutely try my hardest to make sure smth like that doesn't happen again.

anyway I'm glad I was able to save someone and actually get smth done this game. despite everything I had a lot of fun here and I'm glad I could be a part of the xeno trilogy. and for everything that happened my reads were actually ok-ish right at the moment I died and I'm glad I was at least able to guess mollie even if cephrir got right by me. this is yet another example of my reads being more accurate the more I step away from whoever it is I start tunneling initially ._.

THX FOR THE GAME BORK <3