Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

As a wise man once said,

"VOTE: MafiaSSK"

[Cephrir]

If I don't have townreads on orcinus and Metal Sonic by page 10 we should lynch them, just a heads up.

[Cephrir]

He feels weird.

Cease this begging for further inquiry at once young man! Because it annoys me! Roar!

If I don't have townreads on orcinus and Metal Sonic by page 10 we should lynch them, just a heads up.

explain plz

also why SSK?

I've seen both of those players be town and in all cases they have struck me as very obviously town.
Also, NY 167.

I voted SSK because a wise man did before me.

huh. is it bc of his comment about zmuffin flipping super-saint? scum are more aware of super-saints and in this case it wouldn't even affect him. so I'm inclined to agree that post feels off

vote: Brian

what are your thoughts on sangres so far?

I like this post!

[Cephrir]

Buddying Kaze,
Claiming Town,
Varsoon is home now.

This seems like a thing that someone might need to explain to me?

As a wise man once said,

"VOTE: MafiaSSK"

Thanks Ceph. What bad meta experience could you possibly have with me though? ;D

I have no idea what you are referring to. You see, Metal Sonic is a wise man.

huge pointless wall

Surely you must know there is neither an award for posting the first wall nor for posting the most pointless one.

Since you asked, though, I liked pie's post because it clearly started in a place that didn't have any particular direction and acquired a direction by the time it was done. Genuine thought process.

Come on, Varsoon, hurry up and buddy me so I'll know whether or not you're Scum.

Muffin

Before he claims something resembling an innocent child.

Better backtrack and sheep AP before you flip something like SuperSaint.

Why are you already so interested in what Muffin will flip? Why Muffin in particular?

Yeah, it's called respect. Enjoy it while you can.

I don't think that's why you decided to sheep AP.

VOTE: Brian Skies

[roll]1d20[/roll]

Well, that's unfortunate.

Why a d20? You know your own alignment, don't you? Was a self-vote one of those options?

I havent read any of their posts but probability is on my side and maybe Brian made a post that seemed pretty town?

Did he now? Which post? I grew up on Where's Waldo books, but doggone it, I just can't seem to find it.

Serious as a myocardial infarction.

He feels weird.

As far as reasons to vote someone are concerned, "He feels weird" seems like the opposite of serious.

scum are more aware of super-saints and in this case it wouldn't even affect him.

If there really is a Super Saint in this game, why do you say that it wouldn't affect Brian?

Did you seriously just post a quote wall to respond to a large number of non-serious posts with either equally pointless responses or taking them seriously? Yuck.

The Brian vote seems especially disingenuous.

AFB, why do you think this is town?

[Cephrir]

sangres.....suspicious

Yeah? Why?

Tick tock, AFB. This question happened.

[Cephrir]

Are these Skull townreads meta-based or something? I don't get it.

[Cephrir]

@Kaze: don't worry, I love walls and will eventually make my own. I was criticizing the particular walls that have been made.

[Cephrir]

@Skull: wow, hostility, geez. You're allowed to interact with people, but I think you're taking things too seriously is all.

[Cephrir]

hey hey guys

i have an idea

what if we didn't do that

[Cephrir]

Psh, whatever, I'm too good for group scummies.

More importantly, this is stupid.

[Cephrir]

Why wouldn't I? I'm going to end up townreading him eventually anyways considering I always do, whether I'm right or not.

Well, that's depressing, I guess...

That flashwagon actually was one of the worst things i've seen.

Vote: Metal Sonic

It was, and I'm sure there was a bad vote on it, but I don't really think it's this one. It's quite in character.

i'd unvote you, but you've put me in a tough position, brian

if i unvote now, i look like a wuss

so now we wait and see whether you get hammered or whether someone else wusses out

(also pieguy really is scum)

Ok, I'm a wuss. Why is pie scum?

UNVOTE:

This, and thank you for unvoting, I was kind of flipping my shit.

hey hey guys

i have an idea

what if we didn't do that

What's wrong with the Brian wagon, exactly?

Did you /see/ it? There were some pretty scary votes there. It was useful though, I think Muffin is town now. Also, Brian's reaction was pretty odd.

Alright. Lynch before 5.

VOTE: Brian

The hell?

Yeah I really did not get this. I feel like anyone should be flipping out rather than continuing to joke about that wagon, which personally I thought got way too damn serious. I can maybe see this as a scum attempt to seem calm in order to avoid reacting poorly. I'm not sure I see anyone naturally reacting this way.

hammer brian for the lolz

a part of me is actually serious here and another part is kidding

1) he may be a lynch-to-activate PR e.g. supasaint andy

2) if he flips scum we will be in history as the only theme game (bork's games are unprecedented anyway)

but yes clearly all logic says that its a bad idea

Where did this come from? Seriously? A "lynch-to-activate PR"?

Nice avoidance of stance on the wagon, by the way.

You and I are going to be friends I think.

kaze, I'd be saying "kazetown" about now on the basis of your posts except for one thing. I'm confused by your lack of thoughts on us. I would think you'd be making some effort toward figuring us out if what we've put down in the thread hasn't given you something to think about.

You haven't been doing anything! But obviously you will eventually. Why is it odd that he's not pursuing you immediately?

The reasons that Cephrir mentioned in 62. The vote especially bothered me, although I must say that the giant wagon was amusing.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was strange... still waiting on literally anyone to tell me what was town about that.

[Cephrir]

I'm a bit distressed that fferycho has yet to initiate any sort of action with me. For larges, sorting me is one of her first priorities usually, because of her fears of 165 (Me shaping her reads and leading her into mislynch after mislynch)

You say this a lot, but I don't feel like it ever actually happens this way.

Well, that was fast.

FUCK YEAH
I'M EXCITED AS FUCK FOR THIS GAME AND THE SCUM TEAM IS GONNA GET FUCKED
LET'S FUCKING GO

vote: Kaze

bc he's always scum \o/

Is this your scumgame pie?

'Cause this feels forced-as-hell.

Now that you mention it this does have that Amrun-FEA vibe.

Also, cephtown for now, until I waffle otherwise.

That was fast o.o

I'll be honest: When it comes to this series of questions from Kaze, my instinctive reaction is "kinda sorta feels faked". It's something I

can

see being legitimate scumhunting, but can also see as being scum faking it.
When it comes to a similar series of questions from Skull, though, my instinctive reaction is, "Oh! Yeah! That's town, alright."

Funny, the former is what this entire post feels like to me

Skull is town, Kaze is scum.

Dammit, AP. Stop stealing my thunder!
(May or may not actually be AP, but doesn't matter--AFB is town.)

Insufficient basis.

hi guyz

whats going on

Well, I think you're town, to a decent degree of certainty, but I'm going to need more from ya to be sure.

Don't see what from them can possibly be giving off townvibes atm

[5] Brian Skies (Kazekirimaru, pieguyn, Flandre Scarlet, Skullduggery, Kagami)

Not really liking this wagon. Skull's almost certainly town, and Kagami's got a high probability of being town, yet the other three...not so much. (Which is another reason to townread Brian Skies. )

Venmar (sixth on the wagon) is prob-town.

Vote: Brian

i don't think brian is scum

Is probably town, but I need more to be sure. (Seventh.)

Metal Sonic (8) is basically null, but Cephrir's aversion to the wagon feels bad. It feels like scum-WKing-town to me.

Hi, mastin. I'm Cephrir. Nice to meet you.

Brian (9 and L-2) basically solidifies himself as being town with that self-vote, by the way.

He does? =/

I can see there are more posts because I left this open for an hour but I'll read them after I post it

[Cephrir]

Also, I'm going to become increasingly pissy until someone gives me a real reason for thinking Skull is town. Or you, yes you, can nip this in the bud now by telling me! Limited time offer!

[Cephrir]

Also, I'm going to become increasingly pissy until someone gives me a real reason for thinking Skull is town. Or you, yes you, can nip this in the bud now by telling me! Limited time offer!

Seconded. Also, why are you not voting Skull currently (or did I miss a vote somewhere?).

I only mildly suspect him, I'm just flustered by these magic townreads growing out of the ground from literally everyone

[Cephrir]

[10] Brian Skies (Kazekirimaru, pieguyn, Flandre Scarlet, Skullduggery, Kagami, Varsoon, zMuffinMan, Metal Sonic, Brian Skies, orcinus_theoriginal)

Yeeeeeeeeah, thinking Metal Sonic and Orc might be the later-scum additions to the wagon. With pie and maaaaaaaaaaaybe Kaze as early-starters. The wagon's likely not going to have all the scum on it, and I'd wager probably no more than three. (There being either 4 or 5 in the game.) Could feasibly be as low as two, though I'm not going lower than that.

This might be the most meaningless thing anyone has ever written.

If you think the wagon is scummy, why do you dislike me for not jumping on it?

Definitely think that one of or perhaps both of Kaze/Metal Sonic are scum. It's difficult to tell if Kaze is bussing, Kaze's town and Metal Sonic's scum, or Kaze's scum and Metal Sonic's town. I don't think they're both town, but that's all I've got right now.

What about that post makes you think completely precludes them from both being town? o.o

The Kaze-town MS-scum possibility from that post makes especially little sense to me.

Fun Fact: In the last Xeno game, the L-3 wagon on TD at the start of the game only had 1 scum on it.

And it was the last scum we caught.

Indeed, but this wagon feels different. It's not an all-scum wagon, but I'd be surprised if it was mostly or entirely town. Like I said, I'm betting either two or three scum on it. Probs not Skull, Kagami, Varsoon, zMuff, or Brian Skies. But could be Kaze (nullscum), pie (scum), Flandre Scarlet (null), Metal Sonic (nullscum), or orcinus (nullish, maaaaaybe nulltown; difficult to be certain).

57 is not great. Also, I hate walls of text.

If Kaze is scum, lynch this shit. Kaze made a similar wall, but which was much worse than Skull's wall--why'd you glaze over it, Aegor?

That said, if Kaze's town, I'm wagering that Cephrir is scum. I don't think both Aegor and Cephrir are scum, nor do I think Cephrir-Kaze have interacted like scumbuddies, but I do think that there's scum in those interactions.

You obviously are already wagering that I'm scum? Also, I can't help noticing how good you are at seeming to have reasons for suspicions because you like speculating about pairs so much but you don't actually have any reason for anything...

Ceph continues to look bad, and I don't understand the townreads there at all.

/caught up.

Literally can't believe you just handwaved my entire post

I guess I'm scum via some sort of mystical process known only to you that must not be shared at all costs lest it fall into the wrong hands

Oh!

Just realized.

Fuck yeah, this game's a town win.

BRO is town.
Nacho is town.

They never lose.

We win.

I'm also feeling great this game, which helps. I feel like the town players here are already in the process of synching up, just like last Xeno game, and that the scum are trapped on the outside for the most part. I generally don't feel like instantly flipping the switch, but this game is going so damn awesomely that I kinda sorta feel like I almost could flip it right here and now and be that pseudo-scumhunting-god.

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Vote mastin

[Cephrir]

[10] Brian Skies (Kazekirimaru, pieguyn, Flandre Scarlet, Skullduggery, Kagami, Varsoon, zMuffinMan, Metal Sonic, Brian Skies, orcinus_theoriginal)

Yeeeeeeeeah, thinking Metal Sonic and Orc might be the later-scum additions to the wagon. With pie and maaaaaaaaaaaybe Kaze as early-starters. The wagon's likely not going to have all the scum on it, and I'd wager probably no more than three. (There being either 4 or 5 in the game.) Could feasibly be as low as two, though I'm not going lower than that.

This might be the most meaningless thing anyone has ever written.

If you think the wagon is scummy, why do you dislike me for not jumping on it?

Definitely think that one of or perhaps both of Kaze/Metal Sonic are scum. It's difficult to tell if Kaze is bussing, Kaze's town and Metal Sonic's scum, or Kaze's scum and Metal Sonic's town. I don't think they're both town, but that's all I've got right now.

What about that post makes you think completely precludes them from both being town? o.o

The Kaze-town MS-scum possibility from that post makes especially little sense to me.

Fun Fact: In the last Xeno game, the L-3 wagon on TD at the start of the game only had 1 scum on it.

And it was the last scum we caught.

Indeed, but this wagon feels different. It's not an all-scum wagon, but I'd be surprised if it was mostly or entirely town. Like I said, I'm betting either two or three scum on it. Probs not Skull, Kagami, Varsoon, zMuff, or Brian Skies. But could be Kaze (nullscum), pie (scum), Flandre Scarlet (null), Metal Sonic (nullscum), or orcinus (nullish, maaaaaybe nulltown; difficult to be certain).

57 is not great. Also, I hate walls of text.

If Kaze is scum, lynch this shit. Kaze made a similar wall, but which was much worse than Skull's wall--why'd you glaze over it, Aegor?

That said, if Kaze's town, I'm wagering that Cephrir is scum. I don't think both Aegor and Cephrir are scum, nor do I think Cephrir-Kaze have interacted like scumbuddies, but I do think that there's scum in those interactions.

You obviously are already wagering that I'm scum? Also, I can't help noticing how good you are at seeming to have reasons for suspicions because you like speculating about pairs so much but you don't actually have any reason for anything...

Ceph continues to look bad, and I don't understand the townreads there at all.

/caught up.

Literally can't believe you just handwaved my entire post

I guess I'm scum via some sort of mystical process known only to you that must not be shared at all costs lest it fall into the wrong hands

Oh!

Just realized.

Fuck yeah, this game's a town win.

BRO is town.
Nacho is town.

They never lose.

We win.

I'm also feeling great this game, which helps. I feel like the town players here are already in the process of synching up, just like last Xeno game, and that the scum are trapped on the outside for the most part. I generally don't feel like instantly flipping the switch, but this game is going so damn awesomely that I kinda sorta feel like I almost could flip it right here and now and be that pseudo-scumhunting-god.

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Vote mastin

close enough to fixed to be readable

[Cephrir]

tags is hard cabd

so is previewing

[Cephrir]

17. Skullduggery
^Also town. Meta points help, but I also found that Skull's posting regardless of meta still looked town overall, because it didn't feel forced, it didn't feel faked; it felt like natural town posting.

Please enlighten me on said meta

Still waiting for reasons for the weird stupid aegor me kaze triangle as it appears to make no sense and nothing you have said precludes all of us from being town, as indeed i suspect we are

[Cephrir]

Alright, I'm going to keep this Brian wagon in the back of my mind for when/if he eventually dies and flips.

UNVOTE:

If Brian flips Town, I'd be more inclined to look at who

wasn't

on his wagon to find Scum since I imagine that Scum off the wagon wouldn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole.

If Brian flips Scum, then it would make more sense to look at the early voters on his wagon to see if there were any partners who casually voted for him without realizing that it was going to turn into an L-1 wagon so quickly.

I wouldn't have voted for Brian if I didn't think he was Scum, so I'm looking more closely at the second scenario right now. The first three people on the Brian wagon were Kaze, Pieguyn, and Flandre. Of those three, Flandre is making me the most uncomfortable. I see nothing but fluff, a naked vote, and what looks like an attempt to produce content just for the sake of producing content.

VOTE: Flandre Scarlet

You're going to be a moonlogic person, aren't you. I mean yes Scarlet does kinda suck so far, but isolating the first three seems really arbitrary. Why is it the case that scum would be on the beginning of their buddy's wagon? Those votes were more RVS than the others if anything.

@Skull: wow, hostility, geez. You're allowed to interact with people, but I think you're taking things too seriously is all.

First you say that all my questions and observations are "pointless," but now you're saying that I'm taking things too seriously. Which is it?

You said you didn't like my vote on Brian, but I haven't seen you singling out any other Brian votes. Why is my vote in particular offensive to you?

First point: Both! Those things aren't mutually exclusive. But I'm starting to get that maybe this is just sort of your thing.

Second point: You seemed more confident he was scum than I felt was reasonable. Though as you put it to Aegor, I don't know that all nine of the others were necessarily okay, I just can't pick out which one(s) are actually the bad ones.

Cephrir's aversion to the wagon feels bad. It feels like scum-WKing-town to me.

Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.

I'm trying to resist getting warm fuzzies for you from this because I know how susceptible I am to townreading people just because they get me right.

Also, I'm going to become increasingly pissy until someone gives me a real reason for thinking Skull is town. Or you, yes you, can nip this in the bud now by telling me! Limited time offer!

Because my role PM says I'm Town.

Consider this bud nipped.

I meant someone other than you
I feel like there was probably there was someone in there just saying they had a townread on you just because everyone else was.

11. MafiaSSK
^Also town. This is SSK's townmeta, through-and-through, and his posting has been goodposting, too.

The only thing that SSK has done so far is vote for Pieguyn. Is that all it takes to be considered a rock-solid Town read or do you have other reasons to be so confident about his alignment?

:goodposting:

Please enlighten me on said meta

I keep my wiki page up-to-date. If you want to know more about my meta, you know what to do.

If it becomes important enough to me I'll try. It takes a really good reason to get me to metadive when I could just hope for a summary.

Kind of. I got wagonned for backtracking off of you, so probably town.

no you got wagoned for mentioning a super-saint for no reason. scum are more aware of super-saints and you're the first to bring it up

Oh. Somehow I didn't catch that. Thanks.

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Vote mastin

close enough to fixed to be readable

get out of my head. it feels to me like he's trying to appear more confident than he really is to get people to listen to him and this doesn't seem at all like what I know of his towngame. what do you think of mastin's tone? also, thoughts on sangres?

I feel like he's trying to look like he's tryharding to squeeze into the townblock by default. But there is just no substance. I would agree with your characterization re: aggressive/confident, though I don't particularly know his meta. It would be really useful if that was the case (ie he would work the way I do, which would help me figure out what to look for). I don't have any read on sangres yet, I'm going to just sit here and wait for them to obvtown. Then again, they kinda had me snowed in 167 because I gave them a pass too quickly. I did have some doubts there though, I guess I should just count my doubts about them as like triple.

[Cephrir]

I feel like he's trying to look like he's tryharding to squeeze into the townblock by default. But there is just no substance. I would agree with your characterization re: aggressive/confident, though I don't particularly know his meta. It would be really useful if that was the case (ie he would work the way I do, which would help me figure out what to look for). I don't have any read on sangres yet, I'm going to just sit here and wait for them to obvtown. Then again, they kinda had me snowed in 167 because I gave them a pass too quickly. I did have some doubts there though, I guess I should just count my doubts about them as like triple.

what do you think of 233?

I don't really take issue with it. ffery does start pretty slow in my experience, and the Cabd paranoia is not a tell, it would just be a scumclaim if they weren't.

[Cephrir]

I suppose I should amend that to "my recent experience". ffery gets mad at me when I try to hold her to the Amnesiac standard though, perhaps justifiably.

[Cephrir]

If you think the wagon is scummy, why do you dislike me for not jumping on it?

Because of the way you didn't jump on it. Like I said--two, maybe three scum on it. Not all the scum. They'd want to avoid that.

What about that post makes you think completely precludes them from both being town? o.o
The Kaze-town MS-scum possibility from that post makes especially little sense to me.

Nothing. Just my general analysis. Kaze looks sorta scummy, MS looks sorta scummy, so I don't think they're both town. Simple.

That isn't how you presented it. You presented it as "this is not TvT" not as "these people are scummy". Thereby sounding like you were doing more work than you were actually doing.

Literally can't believe you just handwaved my entire post

Clarification: I understand your "townreads". I don't understand why YOU have townreads on ya.

You still...handwaved...an entire wall....you don't get to do that....

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Sure isn't, but that doesn't mean they're not right. BRO's town, Nacho's town; game is a town win.

I just can't process this enough to respond to it in an intelligent and civil manner

That's literally his entire fucking ISO, mastin.

So? It's townish. Not really town, but town enough.

...

PEdit: Wow Ceph looks town.

That post was a whole bundle-load of null, though.

(And, yeah, orc could be scum, but I'm not certain of that.)

Hey Mastin and I's reads are syncing! This is a good sign!

Extremely!

Even though... the above... is a great example of your reads not syncing...

TOWN:
MafiaSSK
Angry Frat BROs
Sangres
zMuffinman

Skullduggery
Kagami

Varsoon
macmollie
Cabd
Brian Skies (fairly interchangeable with Cabd, but overall weaker)

LEANING TOWN:
ActionDan
orcinus_theoriginal

LYNCH POOL:
pieguyn
Aegor (mutually exclusive with Cephrir)
Cephrir (mutually exclusive with Aegor)
Kazekirimaru
Metal Sonic
Flandre Scarlet

NULL:
Venmar

So basically, 7 or so names for scum candidates, maaaaaaaaaaaaybe eight if you bump orcinus down--I need a little over half that. (I'm

guessing

five scum for this game, but it's difficult to be certain if it's four or five.)

I'm otherwise preoccupied, so I'll see if I can analyze the details later.

pie has already responded beautifully to this (honestly 278 is probably the best post in this thread). I know what feeling kinda confident but being pretty sure you will ultimately waver is like. The latter being my constant state of being, and the sum being about as confident as I ever get barring One True Townreads. And that just isn't what you look like here. This sounds certain. Me not being scum with Aegor sounds certain. And you are apparently certain enough about your exact order to have to mention when you have a little quibble with it. What really blows my mind is that you don't seem to understand why anyone thinks this is scummy.

Meanwhile, you have all the strong players / town leaders at the top of your list despite the fact that they have not done anything yet. Even though they'd be the hardest ones to catch if they were scum. It's as though you don't have the capacity for paranoia.

Town, hands-down. It's not an absolute read, but it's a reasonably-strong read all the same.

so you somehow have a "hands-down" town read despite the fact that he's done fuck all so far?

Yep! Join the club with Cephrir, Cabd, and several others chastising me for it. It's there. It exists. I have it. That's the best explanation I can give.

This is literally an admission that you are full of shit, is it not?

Did you /see/ it? There were some pretty scary votes there. It was useful though, I think Muffin is town now. Also, Brian's reaction was pretty odd.

"Odd?" Do tell.

I've never seen such a happy self-vote.

5. Cabd
^Town. I admittedly do not know Cabd that well; I'm not sure I've seen his scumgame and am not intimately familiar with his towngame. But his posting so far just feels like town, and that's good enough for me.

lol It really shouldn't be.

Srsly. I would think you'd at least be peripheraly aware of his reputation, and if you aren't lemme tell you. Don't underestimate Cabd's scum game.

[Cephrir]

orc, it's page 12 and you aren't town yet. Hurry up.

[Cephrir]

But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.

This is fair. I was thinking the same at one point, but then I realized town-mastin shouldn't suck this much either, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cephrir]

Could you be a little less cryptic?

i would if i could

if you can't tell the difference, then anything i say here isn't going to make sense to you, and i'm not even really sure i can describe it

there are differences in the way mastin approaches the game as scum/town and there are differences in the way he sounds as scum/town. it's not as simple as "arrogance" or "hesitance" or anything like that so i have trouble describing what the actual difference is. when nacho is around, ask him what he thinks. or i'll talk to him myself when he's around and posting.

Gee, thanks. =/

[Cephrir]

{

orc

-Bros-kagami-cabd-cephrir}
{sangres-kaze-skies}
{fuckton 'o nulls}
{mastin,

pieguy

}

Dear Bolded,

Please elaborate.

Love,
Ceph

[Cephrir]

Re Orc: Hated claim came off town as fuck.

Re Pie, he feels off and to explain would be a PITA, so.... later.

orc: I suppose it did but I have high standards for him.

pie: I don't get these scumreads. I would say "i'll rest assured I'll get an explanation eventually" but that doesn't seem to be the general MO this game.

Cephrir - Ummmm, Hmmmm, Durrrr, Meehhhh? You scum? Your ISO kind of looks like it, scumrir. Splash of opinions, one of them (The SkullDuggery one in post 62) reads a bit unnatural to me. Has no real opinion on Skull other than "wallposts, gross!" (but apparently likes Kazes?) and decides to question my townread here over the Kaze scumread? Weird. WEIRD. Reads like hes trying to actively be in the game rather than having natural opinions about people.

I have already clarified my reaction to Skull vs Kaze, read better. As for the rest of this... nuh uh? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ZmuffinMan - Null leaning scummy. I dislike his posting about the Brian wagon. Very controlled posting, nothing that looks very town motivated. Keeps insisting that Pie is scum like hes hoping someone will bite the bait? Which Kagami evidently does here

explain Kaze scum. how sure are you of Skull town when there's no scumgames to compare it against to make sure she can't fake?

Uhhh, who gives a fuck about meta?

ffery

ask me why i know mastin is town

100 people surveyed, top 3 answers on the board. "Why does Zmuffin know mastin is town?"
AngryPidgeon: Uhhh, is it that Mastin isn't on his scumteam, Richard?
Richard: A bold answer, lets see what the people SAID!!

DING DING DING, #1 answer!!!

Maybe. Muffin's inability to produce reasons for that is pretty craptacular. I could see it as a WK, and I've been giving him too much credit for trolling (yes, I give townpoints for trolling if it's not awkward. DWI). This post reads to me like you think mastin is scummy but town? Would like to know why mastin is town from you or the other(s?) who've expressed this.

It was, and I'm sure there was a bad vote on it, but I don't really think it's this one. It's quite in character.

If you are going to say this, then offer up an opinion on what vote was bad? To me, that wagon was null-ville. I expect maybe a scumvote on it or two, but I don't have any way of knowing/caring what is what. You are bringing this up like its important and not offering anything on the matter, really.

This seems like an odd thing to say to me if you think the wagon is null too and probably has a scum on it somewhere, aka basically what I said?

I bring things up like they're important all the time, because I usually don't know if they're important yet. I don't believe in keeping things to myself, except for that one time I wanted to talk to myself somewhere about who I was going to vig.

You and I are going to be friends I think.

But you literally just said that MS's vote was par for the course. Now someone gets townpoints for criticizing MS? Uhh.

I'm not looking at the context right now, but I'm sure it was the way he went about the criticism that sounded town to me. Dunno why you couldn't come up with this obvious explanation on your own.

pie has already responded beautifully to this (honestly 278 is probably the best post in this thread).

But basically, that post boiled down is insisting that there's a contradiction between me feeling awesome about my reads and having confidence in them, and me knowing that I'm likely wrong and said confidence will later waver. When, bluntly, there isn't; the two are entirely separate things.

Yes there is.

hey guys MS and kaze and i are gonna be inthread mason buddies from now on ty

Funny, I was just going to say this of Muffin, MafiaSSK, and maaaaaaaaaybe AFB/sangres.

You have yet to give any reason for thinking AFB and sangres are town despite having been asked multiple times. And frankly I don't think you can, the latter in particular have done precisely nothing unfakeable or actually even particularly town on a surface level.

But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.

Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.

I've got a serious case of the Thisfeelstooeasys.

While this is goodposting with your words, your actions do not back it.

Said the guy who literally just said it was OK that he is both confident and unconfident simultaneously.

there are differences in the way mastin approaches the game as scum/town and there are differences in the way he sounds as scum/town. it's not as simple as "arrogance" or "hesitance" or anything like that so i have trouble describing what the actual difference is.

This is actually a surprisingly-good description.

It literally fucking doesn't describe anything.

[7] mastin2 (Angry Frat BROs, Cephrir, pieguyn, Cabd, Kazekirimaru, Metal Sonic, orcinus_theoriginal)

AFB's town. Cabd's still a townread. Other than that...this wagon's pretty much crap. Cephrir's a scumread, especially if Kaze's town. (I'm beginning to lean that way.) Pie's scum, and hilariously obviously so. Metal Sonic's probably also scum. Orc's probably but not certainly not scum, but is still playing awfully weak.

Your wagon is scum? What an original insight!

There's still no reason for your stupid kaze-me-aegor dichotomy and you seem to think ignoring me will make that fact go away.

[Cephrir]

I honestly think mastin has just decided he's going to blatantly ignore all my posts and hope no one cares. Usually this is the sort of thing I would say scum would never be ballsy enough to actually do, but he keeps using the same fucking points while completely ignoring that I've pointed out they are illogical (specifically the people whose alignments he keeps insisting hinge on my alignment for no reason).

I made a separate post for this because I'm starting to wonder if anyone is reading my walls.

[Cephrir]

Why is the site breaking every time I try to post

[Cephrir]

Wow, something about the post I've written literally makes the site stop working.

[Cephrir]

Perhaps I'll post a little of it at a time?

You're going to be a moonlogic person, aren't you. I mean yes Scarlet does kinda suck so far, but isolating the first three seems really arbitrary. Why is it the case that scum would be on the beginning of their buddy's wagon? Those votes were more RVS than the others if anything.

..."moonlogic"?

You saw how fast the Brian wagon developed. If you're Scum (giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you aren't) and you see that wagon get five or six votes, do you jump on it or do you stay the fuck away from it for fear of looking like opportunistic bandwagon-jumping Scum? You stay away from it. If you placed a vote on him early, you did so without knowing that the wagon would escalate so quickly because you (presumably) have no way of looking into the future. If there is Scum on the Brian wagon (and I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that there are), they're more likely to be at the beginning than the middle or the end. Do you follow me?

Do you object to my Flandre vote? Has he made enough Towny contributions to the game to deserve a pass?

moonlogic = type of person who leaps to assumptions and can give logic for this but said logic doesn't seem to make any sense to me and this doesn't seem to be related to their alignment. See: Titus.

If I'm scum, I stay the fuck away from it. If I'm town, I also stay the fuck away from it. Personally I don't really do lolwagons. Also, scum know that staying off it is the accepted scum play and could easily subvert this. Don't be a level one player, if you know what I mean, which you probably don't.

I don't especially object to your vote, I just thought the way you got from point A to making that vote was based on weird assumptions.

[Cephrir]

Aaaaand I lost the rest somehow

great

[Cephrir]

Second point: You seemed more confident he was scum than I felt was reasonable. Though as you put it to Aegor, I don't know that all nine of the others were necessarily okay, I just can't pick out which one(s) are actually the bad ones.

Fair enough. Speaking of Aegor, what do you think about him piggybacking off your suspicion of me in 159 and asking you why you aren't voting for me in 208? It looks like he's trying to add fuel to the fire and keep us at odds. Do you get the same impression?

Now that you mention this, it sorta makes sense. I haven't checked whether Aegor was actually voting you at that point and it'd be pretty weird if he wasn't. I'm trying to upgrade my anti-buddying vigilance but it's so hard. Hell, /this/ could be you buddying me right now, but it probably isn't.

Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.

Not right now, but maybe later. Basically, he could be town, but his posting feels like scum manipulating things rather than town scumhunting.

This is what me scumhunting looks like. If I'm wrong that's because I am terrible at scumhunting. You've gotta understand, this is what it looks like you're doing FMPOV, in large part because you're ignoring my points with alarming frequency and continuing to make points that I feel like I've dismantled.

I take back my ActionDan townread, by the way, on grounds of him being a lurker.

No shit, Sherlock.

I could swear there was more to this post than that but I can't figure out what it was.

[Cephrir]

vomit

That mean you scumread Kaze?

pie has already responded beautifully to this (honestly 278 is probably the best post in this thread).

But basically, that post boiled down is insisting that there's a contradiction between me feeling awesome about my reads and having confidence in them, and me knowing that I'm likely wrong and said confidence will later waver. When, bluntly, there isn't; the two are entirely separate things.

are you giving us that silly dichotomy and immediately quickreading bro & nacho? then you gonna let them live till lylo if it happens? yo have you forgotten xeno 1 with me & bro & nacho (even though that was partially my fault yea) and because bro and nacho thought each other so town i had to be kicked instead ? and you still dare to pull this sort of early crap gut reads are you serious? no you arent

Uh...Nacho and BRO were both town in Xeno, and you were scum encouraging their fight? Nacho's town. BRO's town. If they live 'til lylo, it's because the scum had higher kill priorities or were utterly incompetent; they're both town, and not getting lynched.

I am so not understanding all of the mastin hate. Could someone explain?

A lack of explanation is the reason.

hey guys MS and kaze and i are gonna be inthread mason buddies from now on ty

Funny, I was just going to say this of Muffin, MafiaSSK, and maaaaaaaaaybe AFB/sangres.

But I must admit...this feels off. Mastin is supposedly one of the most experienced players around. To be felled by such a thing as this? I don't know. I'd expect scum-Mastin to have more chops than that.

Not to mention one would expect scum to contrive reasoning when pressured. Mastin is literally saying "It is because it feels that way and that's all I got." Not even an ounce of fuck-giving. Would scum be so brash as to just put down reads with no reasoning and not even bother to explain? Even when pressured? It wouldn't be the first time I've seen scum just take the "I don't care" route, but I'm not sure it would come from Mastin.

I've got a serious case of the Thisfeelstooeasys.

While this is goodposting with your words, your actions do not back it.

there are differences in the way mastin approaches the game as scum/town and there are differences in the way he sounds as scum/town. it's not as simple as "arrogance" or "hesitance" or anything like that so i have trouble describing what the actual difference is.

This is actually a surprisingly-good description.

[7] mastin2 (Angry Frat BROs, Cephrir, pieguyn, Cabd, Kazekirimaru, Metal Sonic, orcinus_theoriginal)

AFB's town. Cabd's still a townread. Other than that...this wagon's pretty much crap. Cephrir's a scumread, especially if Kaze's town. (I'm beginning to lean that way.) Pie's scum, and hilariously obviously so. Metal Sonic's probably also scum. Orc's probably but not certainly not scum, but is still playing awfully weak.

{mastin, pieguy}

Yeeeeeeah, no. I might bus when I feel it's appropriate, but immediately hard-bussing pie, fuck no. Choose one or the other. Not both.

(Also, side-note, I find it hilarious how people are quoting various different ideas of what mastin-meta is when they're all simultaneously wrong and right, because they're drawing experiences from entirely different games. )

Metal Sonic - Town for post 137 alone. Obvious town even. If you can't see it, then I can't help you.

Well, then, I'm beyond help. There was something in there I could see as town, masked by stuff that looked like scum.

You're being pretty quiet.

Indeed, but it's something to only get worried about if it continues.

Like AP's townreads aside from Metal Sonic, and scum list aside from zMuff and now probably Kaze.

I am cranky because I'm being ignored

Why aren't you doing anything

[Cephrir]

what the hell mafiascum quote feature

you should probably lay off the drugs

[Cephrir]

Cephrir do you think Metal Sonic is scum?

No.

[Cephrir]

:/

Who is then?

My "reasonably strong scumreads" category currently consists of mastin.

But there are a

lot

of players who haven't posted enough for me to get a read on them yet, including you.

[Cephrir]

sangres Jan 26, 10:47pm Jan 28, 10:53pm 0 days 0 hours 49
Cabd Jan 27, 01:29am Jan 28, 04:31am 0 days 18 hours 46

How is it that none of these posts are memorable

[Cephrir]

I suspect it should

[Cephrir]

I suspect it should

Aye. So, you agree?

I'm inclined to, but I'm not going to push there yet.

[Cephrir]

Post #416 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm

Post #417 (ISO) » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm

you should have spaced this out by like at least 5 minutes, pie

rookie scum mistake

are you trolling muffina

i never troll

pieguy is scum

i could break it down and explain exactly why but not right now

do you have much experience playing with pieguy?

You're kidding right

[Cephrir]

Muffin can be scum just for being this sure of anything before page 20, particularly something nonsensical.

Aegor, why are you losing your shit over something so minor.

I'm reading Skull's posts. They are a little wonky at times but I nonetheless think he's probably town from our interactions.

[Cephrir]

pieguy is presenting an argument, not yelling "X is town Y is scum nothing will change my mind about this".

My reads may well be awful, but I'm gonna roll with them anyway.

[Cephrir]

pieguy is presenting an argument

first, this is... like... a borderline fucking retarded answer. "you're sure pieguy is scum and it's too early to be sure of anything so you're scum, but pieguy being sure of you and mastin doesn't mean anything because he's presenting an argument!"

like, really? that's how you defend your stance here?

second, so what? do you think scum is more or less likely to try to blend in by making up reasons for their suspicion? and if you respond by saying something along the lines of "WIFOM", i'm just going to ignore you for the rest of the game. your reads are awful

also, saying pieguy is presenting an "argument" is meh, especially when the basis for his "argument" is similar to the reasons mastin was wagoned in xenogears

He doesn't seem as certain as you and I could imagine his mind changing

Muffin can be scum just for being this sure of anything before page 20

i was thinking about this

have you never seen people be sure of a read before p20?

Not without being able to explain it to my satisfaction and in a large

not yelling "X is town Y is scum nothing will change my mind about this"

also how much of my posts are you reading? because i have pretty clearly explained where the read on pieguy comes from here, here and here

just because i'm not breaking down every single post he makes and explaining why he's scum because of it, doesn't mean i don't have reasons to think he's scum.

it is largely a meta-based read. there are differences in how he plays as scum and town, and i am pretty sure this is his scum game. i don't really expect anyone to be convinced by me saying this, but you can compare and contrast how he talks in games he's town yourself (if you're any good at reading tone and attitude, and i don't think you are based on your current reads, so maybe it's a long shot you'll actually be able to do this)

I just looked at those posts again and I still don't see much more than 'because meta'. If you want me to believe you you're going to have to explain the differences to me more carefully. I'm shit at meta but I accept summaries. You probably won't convince me pie is scum or mastin is town but you might convince me you aren't scum.

I have no idea what AFB is doing or why but that seems to be the name of this game. Besides, we wouldn't be playing mafia if I wasn't a D1 wagon, so I guess we might as well get it out of the way now.

[Cephrir]

You know, you're beginning to get on my nerves.

[Cephrir]

You have yet to give any reason for thinking AFB and sangres are town despite having been asked multiple times. And frankly I don't think you can, the latter in particular have done precisely nothing unfakeable or actually even particularly town on a surface level.

AFB is town because this is their towngame through-and-through. Their mindset is town, their posting is town, and critically, their thought process largely matches up with my own. Their insights look like solid scumhunting, and overall, I don't see any manipulation in their posting.

Sangres is town mostly because of their interactions with others. I pick up the exact same feeling of them that I did in Walking Dead, in that they're being town, but in their more subtle way. Their posting could have manipulation in it, but doesn't feel like it does; it feels more like the type of analysis that comes from a ffery/Nacho hybrid style. (And, yes, their posting does come across as exactly what they're a hydra of. It's not quite Nacho but not quite ffery, lingering somewhere between.)

I get how you can think this about AFB now but I still think the read was premature.

This paragraph about sangres is a lot of words that don't say very much. But suffice to say I don't agree, not to mention I don't think Nacho is even here yet? Also, would it be scummy if they didn't sound like a combination between themselves? I mean, yes, if Nacho was posting and ffery wasn't I would probably vote them, but in a void.

Your wagon is scum? What an original insight!

Egos aside, yes, the wagon on me is scum. Not nearly as scum-filled as my ego wants it to be, but the wagon on me is, simply put, objectively bad. The speed of the wagon is bad, the reasoning behind it is pretty dang weak, most of the players on it are people I cast suspicion onto (making their votes largely OMGUSy), and beyond that, are acting suspicious in areas other than their vote on me, anyway.

You are not the voice of objectivity. Don't pretend to be.

Wagon speed does not necessarily mean anything, and it's better than any reasoning you have.

Off the top of my head I would question the cause-effect of there being a lot of people on the wagon you allegedly suspect (see: Metal Sonic, below)

There's still no reason for your stupid kaze-me-aegor dichotomy and you seem to think ignoring me will make that fact go away.

The reasoning is because of your interaction with Kaze. Aegor's looked like it could be from a scumbuddy. (I am now thinking Kaze and Aegor are both town.) Yours looked like it came from scum, buddying town.

Okay but

what about it looked like scum buddying town

and how does that make Aegor's alignment dependent on mine

cephir why you so cranky

Because he's probably scum?

I get emotional when I feel like no one is listening to me.

pieguy still not town

Indeed. Though that post is admittedly a much better display, it is still not his town self. Not even close.

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy notttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

Unlike Mastin who judges immediately and is probably wrong/scum

On the contrary, I am constantly changing my mind on everything. Continuously passing "judgment", every time I post, every day I read, at all times, continuing to update. That doesn't mean I change my judgments every time; my townreads on zMuff/MafiaSSK/AFB/Sangres don't waver nor does my scumread on pie. But I'm not turning a blind eye to their posting, contrary to what you're saying.

(Also, MS is scum for this post.)

You keep insisting your reads are open to change but you also keep stating these reads that aren't going to change, some of which have minimal basis (I would keep complaining about townreading mafiassk on 2 useless posts but obviously no one cares and theyre content to let you just say 'lolmeta')

What does Scum SSK look like? For those of us who aren't so intimately familiar with his meta, what should we be looking for?

It's...kinda difficult to explain. It's not so much lurking, but basically...a town SSK is a player generally underestimated, who makes good analysis and good insight for those paying attention. That, he's showed. Its absence is his scumgame. Basically, town-him is analytical; scum-him is survivalistic. This is not him surviving. But I think this is a very poor explanation of it. Just...read some of his town games and compare them to his scum games. They're nothing alike.

(Also, Skull's ridiculously town. Like, seriously, RIDICULOUSLY town.)

And... you call what he's done so far good analysis?

(Yes, yes he is.)

mastin how the hell did you townread us off one freakin' post holy shit? that's a cause for concern.

Because you're town? Like I said. I'm reasonably certain this is your towngame, and that your entrance was town. One post, ten posts, doesn't matter.

This isn't an answer

[Cephrir]

Muffin can be scum just for being this sure of anything before page 20, particularly something nonsensical.

I don't really agree with this line of thinking. I've been sure of scum from page 1(and correct) a few times. Sometimes it just clicks.

=/

This never happens to me

I understand your metaphor completely. I simply completely reject the notion that scum would not join the wagon.

So adamant. Anything's possible, you know.

Yeah I missed how bad this was the first time

[Cephrir]

I guess I need to reread pie and focus on tone/emotion to try to figure out what everyone is talking about then

I'll give up on getting a solid answer re aegor & kaze, I guess it's possible you just can't articulate that even though I'm certainly dubious

I just iso'd SSk and I guess he tried a little harder than I recalled but still =S

[Cephrir]

the fact that no one has quoted soul sister for me is criminal.

do it now

Turn 1 Plains, cast Martyr of Sands. Pass turn.

Fuck that card/deck, I concede.

Play solitaire on your time not mine

[Cephrir]

Got anything useful to say, or are you just going to keep being an asshat?

[Cephrir]

Not you.

[Cephrir]

I'm not digging on these reads because i disagree with them. you wouldn't be making these reads

1) you're not townreading me. There's no way. I haven't said shit to you yet, nacho scumreads me everyday, my play has not been spectacular, so that means you're towning me on the claim alone. I've never seen that.
2) Cabd was a very quick sort. I've read through your discussion and I didn't pick up anything too out of the ordinary. I remember you holding cabd more at arms length.

Your read list in your town games are much more mediate towards the null/null lean town/null lean scum piles.

Varsoon I actually just disagree with. Mostly because he doesn't seem excited like I think he should be.

This is what I am looking for, now do it more.

Loving how I've been able to lurk without retribution.

So, I'm thinking Kazekirimaru is kinda town in regards where he's asking people why their reads disagree with them and opening himself up to different ideas.

I like Brian Skies catch up posts, they felt genuine, along with his reaction to the flashwagon.

The macmollie/sangres interaction felt like a TvT to me.

I'm liking orcinus_theoriginal's hated claim.

I kinda feel two scum in {pieguyn, mastin2, zMuffinMan} but it's a gut instinct more than anything. But, I feel like part of the wagon on mastin2 is a burden of proficiency wagon.

I feel like there's one scum in {Aegor, Skullduggery}

In regards to my last post not feeling genuine- (not really looking for sympathy, just explaining)- I'm trying to mask my playstyle (PL the metadodger) as well as get a feel for where I fit into the machine.

Pedit-

Thanks for anulling the first line of this post. I'll gladly chat with you more later, maybe you'll realize how off you are.

Do you actually think none of this requires explanation?

@Pie - OMG I ALSO LOVE HOW YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED LOLOLOLOL

Sorry I don't want to talk to you anymore, it's giving me a migraine.

Vote:Pieguyn

This might be a scumpost. When I ragequit talking to someone there is a lot more rage and less quit.

The above post is bad.

vote pieguy

Can somebody tell pieguy why his post is bad?

Care to share with the class instead?

I would in fact like to hear from skull on the logic behind asking that question; but it's hardly going to make me flashwagon anyone.

Orcinus said in 521 that he was suspicious of Sangres for Town-reading him based solely on the hated claim, so I thought it would be beneficial for him to expand on the hated claim so we could see whether his suspicion of Sangres was legit or not.

Orc's reaction, however, has me thinking that his hated claim might be fake and he made it just so he could accuse the first person who asked him about it of role-fishing.

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh seems farfetched. I don't like attributing this much planning to scum.

[Cephrir]

I don't know how I feel about this development.

[Cephrir]

I mean, *I* wasn't going to vote you, I can't speak for anyone else.

Do you get that emotional normally?

[Cephrir]

Oh, that's what your issue was, ffery. Hrm.

[Cephrir]

Song received

Honestly why do you even sign up for mafia games

[Cephrir]

I haven't read all these posts yet but I fucking told you pie was town

Venmar is scum for suggesting otherwise

[Cephrir]

"Oh this guy thinks i'm scum and he thinks this other person on my townreads is scum... THIS GUY IS SHIT AT THIS GAME AND IS NOT CREDIBLE ANYMORE"

yeah ok i need some air before i go all caps.

This ATE is materializing out of thin air for no discernible reason and I think it's poppycock.

I'm going to say that more, so brace yourselves.

[Cephrir]

yeah i just got hard ignored.

I've been scumreading you, but your last few posts have had more of a town feel to them.

I don't think they do =(

[Cephrir]

It is worth noting, though, that I don't see ahypothetical scum neighbor benefiting from going after their neighbors... that would make them look worse once said hypothetical neighbors flipped town.

[Cephrir]

But Cabd I started Tales of the Abyss today, I still can't go in there!

[Cephrir]

I am not responding to certain posts right now. This is me acknowledging that.

Aegor, why do you have zero trajectory on that Kaze vote.

[Cephrir]

mastin2- Not scum, nor am I surprised you have a hunch(ish) about who I am. That being said, there are other plays I'm shocked have not let on an idea of my main.

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one:

VOTE: Aegor

ActionDan- Is this the part where we sing a duet of A whole new world or Hakuna Matata?

Brian Skies- Using intentional ragequits is a bannable offense I believe.

Presumably your Aegor vote has something to do with his weird Kaze vote, and yet here you are making a weird vote?

[Cephrir]

A fair point. Did I ask Orcinus about anything other than his hated claim, though? No. No I did not. Would someone be so kind as to point this out to Orc? He obviously isn't listening to me (probably because he doesn't want to admit that he's wrong).

Why are you hated and why do you stop being hated on Night 2?

This is not actually a contradiction

[Cephrir]

Orc, have you really seen nothing more suspicious in this thread than Skull arguably rolefishing you in one place? Why are you content to be a one vote wagon on him (and not seeming very worried about no one listening to you), and why are you ignoring how town he is otherwise?

[Cephrir]

Orc was supposed to be obvtown by now, but I've never played with him. Is orc town yet?

Apparently ffery thinks so, but I don't.

I am not responding to certain posts right now. This is me acknowledging that.

DON'T MIND ME. IM GOING TO FAKE BEING UPSET AND THEN JUST COAST AND AVOID ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING THAT LOOKS REMOTELY TOWN BECAUSE FUCK YOU I DO WHAT I WANT

If mastin can ignore my walls I can ignore his. And I can pretty clearly see there is no point in engaging you. I could be an innocent child right now and you would still vote me, y/n?

mastin2- Not scum, nor am I surprised you have a hunch(ish) about who I am. That being said, there are other plays I'm shocked have not let on an idea of my main.

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one:

VOTE: Aegor

ActionDan- Is this the part where we sing a duet of A whole new world or Hakuna Matata?

Brian Skies- Using intentional ragequits is a bannable offense I believe.

Tryingto be cutesy about Sangres's vote on them.
Voting an obviously town-aligned player.
Engaging action dan about nothing.

Wow this post looks so town-aligned.

Aegor is an obviously town-aligned player? First I've heard of it.

You are doing exactly what I'm scumreading mastin for doing, except even more blatantly and going against the grain a little more.

Orc, have you really seen nothing more suspicious in this thread than Skull arguably rolefishing you in one place? Why are you content to be a one vote wagon on him (and not seeming very worried about no one listening to you), and why are you ignoring how town he is otherwise?

Please. Why are YOU ignoring how ridiculously town Orcinus is being. His suspicions are pretty town motivated, hes just horribly wrong.

I don't see how this is the case. The only motivation I see in scumreading skull is lazy motivation, he must not be reading the guy's posts.

Also, he was ridiculously town in 165, and is not living up to that. His play here reminds me instead of 167. He's still getting upset about things and pushing on them, but those things don't make as much sense, and in a void in both cases I read him as nulltown as opposed to obvtown. In 167 I didn't trust my instincts to hold him to an obvtown standard and lo and behold, scum. Speaking of which, I thought sangres was more town in that game than they have been in this one, and they weren't. If I had to guess right now I might not even put them at null.

Varsoon - I need to scumread him at some point and vote him and see if he gets upset about it. Him being sick could make me think hes just being passively scummy here.
Cabd - Really, why are you voteparking mastin so hard?
MafiaSSK - Can't actually remember anything he's done, but its MafiaSSK so :hitoshrug:

I hate all of these sentences. Most notably the first one. You can tell me all you want how it's actually a town mindset to hold one's cards close to one's chest (which I also happen not to believe, thinking about inventing suspicions is a scum mindset) but actually coming out and saying "I need to fake scumread this person" is just an attempt to look town because you've completely invalidated your own point.

A fair point. Did I ask Orcinus about anything other than his hated claim, though? No. No I did not. Would someone be so kind as to point this out to Orc? He obviously isn't listening to me (probably because he doesn't want to admit that he's wrong).

Why are you hated and why do you stop being hated on Night 2?

This is not actually a contradiction

actually sorry wait i completely misread skull's post because i was assuming he was just parroting what he said earlier

skull didn't ask me anything other than the hated claim, but it's the fact that he asked me to elaborate on the hated claim that makes him scum

when did i ever suggest anything important about skull outside of interaction w/ my claim??

I just don't see how we get from point A to point Scum here.

[Cephrir]

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one

Your placement in my reads list wasn't commentworthy, but my vote was. Good to know.

Is this not the same thing?

Unrealtedly, do you have any reads this game that aren't popular opinion?

I'm still weirded out by how easily you gave Cabd a free pass. I happen to think he's likely town, and you did say something like '165 was a long time ago' but have you even been opposite alignments since then? (the answer to this could easily be yes, I don't know)

[Cephrir]

Looking back at your reads list I see exactly one read that actually surprises me and it's mollie. I can't fathom how you could be townreading her right now for being useless.

[Cephrir]

I hate all of these sentences. Most notably the first one. You can tell me all you want how it's actually a town mindset to hold one's cards close to one's chest (which I also happen not to believe, thinking about inventing suspicions is a scum mindset) but actually coming out and saying "I need to fake scumread this person" is just an attempt to look town because you've completely invalidated your own point.

Which point did I invalidate??

You can't do it anymore once you say that.

Looking back at your reads list I see exactly one read that actually surprises me and it's mollie. I can't fathom how you could be townreading her right now for being useless.

Because Mollie is a book and she isn't being useless?

What is your MafiaSSK read exactly?

I don't have a read on SSK. I don't think I ever have or in all probability will, in any game ever.

That doesn't mean I don't expect other people to try.

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one

Your placement in my reads list wasn't commentworthy, but my vote was. Good to know.

Is this not the same thing?

How so?

I think what I missed about this was how many pages there were between your read list and your vote. I was thinking the reactions would be functionally identical. So yeah never mind.

Unrealtedly, do you have any reads this game that aren't popular opinion?

No idea. Maybe I've set popular opinion in a couple cases?

=S

I'm still weirded out by how easily you gave Cabd a free pass. I happen to think he's likely town, and you did say something like '165 was a long time ago' but have you even been opposite alignments since then? (the answer to this could easily be yes, I don't know)

We've been opposite alignments twice since then, unless one of the games was going on during late 165. I'm pretty smug about both games, actually. Also, I've seen a lot more of both his scum game and town game since then both as a hydra with him and not.

Even right after 165, I was trying to maintain a non-paranoia zone on day 1 of our games. Your FEA game was a decent example.

Hm, maybe. Latter part I will give you.

You are doing exactly what I'm scumreading mastin for doing, except even more blatantly and going against the grain a little more.

I think you're pushing the "people with unclear reads are scum" angle a bit too hard.

One is allowed to have unclear reads, but if they are going to push those reads as hard as they have been and present them as objective fact, that's when they need to be clear. Otherwise they're just hoping people will sheep them if they yell loud enough as opposed to because they actually make persuasive arguments. Yelling loud enough does work, which is why my suspects basically never get lynched except when I try to scream them (read: I am apparently remarkably unpersuasive in general) but it's also a scum tactic, and if they believe all their reads as strongly as they appear to it should be no trouble to articulate why. And yet, for instance, you became scum at the drop of a hat because quote-stripes-followed-by-lol-youre-scum.

[Cephrir]

Ew meta, abort conversation, abort the question.

Stop misreading people who play to their meta. TIA

If you misread someone on meta, you meta'd them incorrectly. No one can play to their meta perfectly.

Also, telling ffery to ignore meta is like telling her to stop breathing. You know this.

[Cephrir]

Are you not the head that was flipping their shit on me AFB? You suddenly started treating me like a real person.

[Cephrir]

One is allowed to have unclear reads, but if they are going to push those reads as hard as they have been and present them as objective fact, that's when they need to be clear. Otherwise they're just hoping people will sheep them if they yell loud enough as opposed to because they actually make persuasive arguments. Yelling loud enough does work, which is why my suspects basically never get lynched except when I try to scream them (read: I am apparently remarkably unpersuasive in general) but it's also a scum tactic, and if they believe all their reads as strongly as they appear to it should be no trouble to articulate why. And yet, for instance, you became scum at the drop of a hat because quote-stripes-followed-by-lol-youre-scum.

I hear cases are scummy. ;D

Listen.

I hate you.

[Cephrir]

Sheesh, I was just trying to say thank you for being civil.

[Cephrir]

Then again, I guess that means you're the head that's been a dick to me, so never mind.

[Cephrir]

The "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed" card, Cephrir?

That is almost enough to make me switch to loltunneling on zMuffin instead. Im upset that people are townreading that guy.

When did I say I wasn't angry, again? I can't seem to find that anywhere!

Please, keep characterizing me as 'playing cards' and shit. No really, I can only assume you're trying to make me mad deliberately, and that really will work.

Ceph are you really making an effort to sort me? I can't tell. Your questions seem kind of shallow and perfunctory, and also kind of answered already in some cases.

Usually I sort by watching. Sorta new at the actually interrogating people bit. I've been playing some IRC mafia lately, and it's taught me the value of even seemingly pointless questions, not that I thought those ones were pointless. It's something I want to start doing here.

But that is the intention, yes. Then again, I could just keep watching. In some ways my track record reading you is kind of okay, and I guess I'll have a pretty good idea by day 3 or so if I'm somehow not lynched yet. Especially if Nacho doesn't show up ever.

[Cephrir]

I feel like someone who knows how to read me shouldn't have any problems reading me in this game. Sometimes I start weakly as town and I can see players having questions about my alignment in games like that. This isn't one of those times.

I don't think you're as obvtown as you think you are but I like that you think that.

I may need to look at 167 then, but Nacho was driving there. We'll see how the driver's seat develops, because that definitely matters.

[Cephrir]

I feel like someone who knows how to read me shouldn't have any problems reading me in this game. Sometimes I start weakly as town and I can see players having questions about my alignment in games like that. This isn't one of those times.

I don't think you're as obvtown as you think you are but I like that you think that.

I may need to look at 167 then, but Nacho was driving there. We'll see how the driver's seat develops, because that definitely matters.

Nacho was definitely navigating that game, but the majority of posts were mine, including some that were attributed to him. Which was the intent. Part of my scum meta is to take a backseat to my partner. I tend to do that as either alignment with partners I think are better players than me, and this hydra is in that category. But I'm comfortable driving alone as town, unless there's a strong reason for Nacho's reads to hit the thread asap.

I don't think you know how to read me yet. There are attitudinal things that I hope someday I'm able to do as scum, but I haven't managed so far.

Yes, that's what I meant of course. I guess I should have realized you were cognizant of that. I guess maybe you'd be pushing Nacho harder to get in here more as scum, but if he's not available at all then you wouldn't have had much choice except to try.

I don't know how to read you in an objective manner, but I've always come around eventually when you've been town based on feels.

Daytalk question feels legit, I don't think sangres is scum.

This is a shitty reason.

[Cephrir]

What's to explain? How would asking if a neighborhood has daytalk make them town?

[Cephrir]

I'm pretty sure even whoever the worst player in this game is could manage pretending to care about that as scum.

[Cephrir]

PEdit: It's not a mastin tell because this doesn't look like his scummeta.

That doesn't make any sense!

[Cephrir]

If that's real you're kind of stupid

[Cephrir]

Well, I guess that's probably town.

[Cephrir]

HE'S NOT SUBSTANTIATING HIS READS???
ARE YOU KIDDING ME????????

Incidentally, no, I am not kidding you.

[Cephrir]

I think that qualifies as confirming muffin is a troll

Which we knew already

[Cephrir]

Yeah the only motivation is troll motivation, it clearly is irrelevant and at most is a super mild towntell

[Cephrir]

TOWN:
AngryFratBros
Cabd
Brian Skies
Kaze
Molliemac
Metal Sonic
Orcinus
Pie
Varsoon
Venmar
MASTIN2

3 scum in this town list. at least.

2 of mastin/mollie/orc and a neighbor, cause honestly I don't care for any of them. Found three.

[Cephrir]

No no, I don't care for any of the neighbors.

You just might be scum is all.

[Cephrir]

I'm not familiar with the other context, but Titus' notes weren't actually very good if you actually read past page 4. It's just that no one but me actually did that.

[Cephrir]

I guess I might as well just make this a readslist, even though they are the worst.

Town:
Skull- If you disagree with this just go away.
Pie- If you want to pretend the massive ATE didn't happen, I would still put this here. I never actually reread for tone or whatever people were seeing but I intuitively find those people to be full of shit.
Cabd- This is about as town a read as Cabd is going to get from me like ever. Maybe I should be worried that he isn't doing things I don't understand like he usually does, but he's made a lot of sense to me this game. I like that he isn't trying too hard.
Brian- I can't actually explain this off the top of my head, but I definitely recall feeling this way after some of his posts.
Kaze- Has weird tone/wording sometimes, but what he is actually saying seems pretty town if I don't think too hard about the ways he says it.

Lean town:
Sangres- Nacho has entered pretty well, but I'm not ready to give this slot a free pass.
Varsoon- Gut, I guess.
Muffin- Demeanor reminds me of FEA, even though I'd find him odd in a void.
SSK- Is actually sort of trying.

???:
Venmar- has rubbed me the wrong way at times (and I think you were the one who threatened me with a mutual scumread which I hated?) but nonetheless his neighbors are scummier
Actiondan- almost certainly never leaving this category, and probably never going to try
Metal Sonic- not radiating the town Metal Sonic I have seen and expected to see. Moves down substantially if AFB is town, I don't believe the neighbors are all town
Kagami- Started out okay, got weird. Might be something to what people have described as her(?) town meta not being present.
Aegor- I'm pretty sure I have touched on when I felt he was weird and possibly WKing me/trying to create a TvT in places. Hate the left field Kaze vote. On the other hand, did some things I thought were town early on.

Scummy:
Mollie- I have never seen you be scum but this doesn't seem in character. Feel like I should not be the only one worried about this, but apparently I am. Weird free pass from mastin who is probably scum.
AFB- I am trying to get around my inherent bias because of them tunneling me but it's not working. Everyone else seems to think they are obvtown but I don't get it. Honestly sounds a lot like Scumrir, and I'm sort of done with the 'Scumrir-esque players are town' mindset I used to have because it keeps being wrong.
Flandre- Just all around sucks every single post. Has not done anything town whatsoever.
Orc- I think we're letting him skate by entirely too much because people are seeing too much in the hated claim. Nothing prevents him from being hated and scum, which could easily prompt genuine emotion(if that's what people saw, because I didn't). Not radiating the town orcinus I have seen in the past. Tunnel on Skull is bullshit. Last time I thought he was weird, I was right and didn't listen to my instincts.

Scum:
Mastin- Explained this to death, realize it's not happening, still want the right to say I told you so in the event I actually got something right once in my life.

[Cephrir]

I haven't read all these posts yet but I fucking told you pie was town

Venmar is scum for suggesting otherwise

Why did you say that Venmar is Scum for doubting Pieguy's Bodyguard claim? What does Scum-Venmar have to gain by persisting with his suspicion of Pieguy after the claim?

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town. Since then, I've seen a decent number of others continue suspecting him, so I must conclude it's possible.

Also, yes, this is true, nothing. Pieguy isn't getting lynched. However, I can imagine how it could be useful to scum. It gives them someone to talk about suspecting who will not go away fro quite some time and yet will also not survive the entire game. It keeps him in the public eye for possible lynching if he doesn't get a successful protect off in some arbitrary amount of time.

[Cephrir]

@Skull: I'm still pretty happy with a Mastin, although...

VOTE: Sangres
Dude talks too much. I don't like the cadence.

Really? Like, actually?

[Cephrir]

Demeanor reminds me of FEA

how so? i was actually reading stuff in FEA. here i haven't read shit in the last 30 pages except for briefly skimming

I'd find him odd in a void

odd means what? scummy? what's a void got to do with anything?

why do the rest of your reads suck so much?

I said demeanor, not content.

If my reads suck so much, which I don't especially think they do, then it's because I'm shit at this game.

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town.

do you want me to break down exactly why it wasn't town ate? and why his bg claim makes no sense if he's town? because i can. it would be a complete waste of time for today, but i might do it in a spoiler wall at some point if i can be bothered so you can look back at it when he's still alive D4

If you actually want to convince me, you will need to do this. Then again, I probably won't be alive on D4, so, I guess you do you.

Mollie has posted emotional reactions to things in the thread that make me feel like she is seeing events from a town motivated lens.

You are just posting whatever you want and ascribing your townieness to lolmetathisishowipost.

Mollie's posting in general looks like she is unafraid to take stances that she will need to defend later.

She is playing her own game instead (I like where her attention is) and her confidence feels about right for what she is doing.

You, on the other hand, are forcing your way into conversations awkwardly, not really doing anything extremely useful, and posting random stuff that Im having a hard time buying you are actually interested in. You are playing the players, mollie is playing the game.

Horseshit.

MafiaSSK is actually just scum though.

Since when?

Kagami, are you going to give a reason for voting me? Are you reading my posts, or just voting me because I look like the lynch today?

[Cephrir]

I'm Canaan.
I wish I was Ziggy.
I only ever played the first Xenosaga game.
My first time through it I didn't realize you could buy new weapons.
It was a very difficult experience for me.

Do you? Huh.

We could maybe stop with the random flavor claims though.

Real post later.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: flandre scarlet

better than the other viable wagons

still gonna actually post at some point

[Cephrir]

???:
Aegor- I'm pretty sure I have touched on when I felt he was weird and possibly WKing me/trying to create a TvT in places. Hate the left field Kaze vote. On the other hand, did some things I thought were town early on.

I do not know how to make this clearer: the vote was not out of left field. I re-read the entire game all at once and Kaze, when considered all at once over the course of the game rather than incrementally (as new posts are written in real time) really rubbed me the wrong way. Is forming new opinions after a re-read not a thing for you?

That is what left field is. I might alter my opinions somewhat after mass-ISOing, but I also can't imagine myself feeling like I need to do that so early in the game.

Even Mastin is ignoring me.
I've gotta figure
It's cus he knows I'm town.

I mean as much as this is probably the case, the reason he's ignoring you is probably because you aren't doing anything.

I didn't believe anyone could read that ATE post and not declare pieguy town. Since then, I've seen a decent number of others continue suspecting him, so I must conclude it's possible.

Possible that Pieguy is actually Scum or possible that other players doubt him? You make it sound like you suspect him just because others do.

Also, yes, this is true, nothing. Pieguy isn't getting lynched. However, I can imagine how it could be useful to scum. It gives them someone to talk about suspecting who will not go away fro quite some time and yet will also not survive the entire game. It keeps him in the public eye for possible lynching if he doesn't get a successful protect off in some arbitrary amount of time.

So you think Pieguy is Town and Venmar is Scum who is setting him up for a future mislynch. Is that correct?

Re: point 1; possible that other players doubt him. I still don't suspect him, but I have concluded it's not ridiculous someone could do so because enough people are doing it that they can't all be scum.

I did think that, but I don't really anymore. Venmar could almost be town for being the first to doubt it, in hindsight, because it seems like a risky position. I thought he was trying to keep pieguy as a mislynch option, but he's not really focusing on it and seems willing to let him eventually die to night actions.

Why does Kaze not have more votes?

Why would he?

@ceph: Why do you think you're today's lynch? 4 votes?

To answer you, because it felt like there was momentum for it, especially with your vote out of nowhere. Also, more importantly, you blatantly dodged my question.

General question to everyone scumreading me off of 5 posts-

You seem to have a majority, you could run me up to L-1 like nothing. Yet, a wagon hasn't actually happened. Why do you think? I have my own suspicions as to the reason.

How is this possibly your reaction to this? Especially seeing as "because you're scum" is such an inviting answer to the question, you're almost literally begging someone to say that.

^ shit like this is why Aegor is obvious town.

Hes concise, clear, and down to business.

Uh-huh. Never seen a Scum player exhibit

these

attributes before.

This. What a ridiculous reason.

Aegor is town because he isn't waffling on things that don't matter. He isn't misting things up. He addresses things that people are concerned about but focuses on what is relevant to him. Town.

This strikes me as arbitrary. I don't see how there's anything scummy about 'waffling on things that don't matter'. Would you say your scum suspects /are/ misting it up? Hell, is anyone?

[Cephrir]

ANd just to confirm your role, you are in fact a watcher, right?

You know, one of these days someone is going to say yes to this question and not be lying.

[Cephrir]

Feeling increasingly iffy about Cephrir, whose questions are increasingly spurious and do not lead anywhere, much like Kaze's posts. Probably would be willing to lynch him too.

Funny how that worked.

I'm cool with Cabd for scum now.

Sorry I'm not putting much in here.
Well, maybe you're grateful for that.

Well this time its because of what you just did with your vote.
I also hate when people use the 'you are always wrong' defense.

Has Titus been letting you use her drugs?

[Cephrir]

Hey could we maybe not wagon Cabd? He's pretty town. Thanks.

[Cephrir]

This game makes me sad.

Eh, to be honest, I liked your Metal Sonic wagon better than I liked the Flandre wagon. I was wagoning Flandre just for the heck of it. That said, though...Flandre's been remarkably absent in spite of the wagon on them. Also, while the speed of the wagon is concerning, how fast the wagon disintegrated is also noteworthy. Like, once it was up...people couldn't wait to find an excuse to get off, and were looking for anyone else to lynch.

Kind of like what you just did...?

[Cephrir]

Why are you still posting, voting me, and not giving a solitary reason for it?

[Cephrir]

Originally it was that I felt like your opinion on pie took an unnatural direction, and it felt like the suspicion toward AFB didn't feel legit, coupled with a lack of a solid scumread. I don't really hold that opinion anymore. I want to hear more from kaze, because that's likely the direction my vote is headed.

A) Why did I have to ask you 3 times
B) Then do you still think I'm scum?
C) You don't think my opinion on pie took an unnatural turn anymore? How did anything change wrt that situation?

[Cephrir]

Could you explain your actiondan town read?

me

feels. we have played a good amount of bit together

I am not even sure why you are asking me cos you don't ever understand how I obtain my reads in the first place or what measurement I use. but he reminds me of mantis when I categorise players inside my head altho he has his own space if that makes sense which it might very well might not. it has to do with his level of certainty and something else I cannot clearly define so I am not going to bother to try. so far I am decent at reading him except in f2f where he molded his play around me thinking he was town and he was an alien psychotrooper or something.

sangres I have cabd as town do you

skull stop pestering cabd plz. imminent signs of early meltdown cos he doesn't know exactly what is going on <---- town

Flandere sits at L-1; varsoon tells MS, who is NOT on the wagon, to hammer. I know MS is stupid enough to quickhammer without giving Flandere the time to claim shit, I unvote.

IF I HIT MY HEAD AGAINST THE WALL ANY MORE IT IS GOING TO BREAK HELP

That is not my point. You said that you unvoted in order to avoid a derphammer and to avoid a lynch with no claim. Yet in that post, you did not actually ask for a claim or express intent to continue forward with the FS lynch. And you never subsequently asked for a claim or seemed to care at all that the wagon disappeared.

I had asked for a claim and I totally get why cabd did what he did cos metal will derphammer whether it be on scum or town the tell is null since he does it as both alignments but cabd just wanted to prevent a lynch on some1 who is probably town from happening since metal has a history of totally doing that shit altho not as bad as saki. it isn't rocket science and yes I am wking the fuck out cabd right now

These posts make me feel way better about you!

Already did.
You can play coy and all like "Expose me then" like you're invincible,
but it's kinda obvious
you're scum.

[Cephrir]

Mastin: I refuse to accept dicrediting your detractors instead of confronting them as a towntell, you've made it clear enough that you don't care what I think but I'm still gonna say that anyway~

[Cephrir]

I ISO'd FS because all the cool kids are doing it, but it still looks like scum.

[Cephrir]

Kagami sure does look like a scumbuddy, but I need to look back at everyone. /Mostly/ agree with AFB's interpretation of 539.

[Cephrir]

Sangres-Town
Cephrir-Town
AFB- Null
Dan-Town
Aegor-Scum
Skull-town
orc-null
pie-null
varsoon-null

Skull went from "one scum in {skull, aegor} to "town" when he has orc null.

Notably, Orc was a town lean in 539.

1572, what the hell are you on about.

[Cephrir]

Btw, both Cabd and Metal Sonic are incredibly likely scum.

Why

[Cephrir]

Hm, okay, that's sorta reasonable. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call them both scum, though. Maybe I'm biased because I don't think Cabd is scum.

[Cephrir]

Rolenames are not a defense in any way, shape or form; they never have been, and they never will be.

Not voting yet, but Kagami is scum.

[Cephrir]

I lied about not voting yet

VOTE: Kagami

[Cephrir]

Annotate this

that is my reads list, it is very pretty and i like it a lot. please be nice to it.

Unvote
Vote: Cabd

i remember catching cabdscum in perpetual mylo @ sangres

muffin is good

Hate both the above posts.

Took a quick skim throught the FS wagon. In addition to Kagami, possible bus votes include Skull, Kaze, mastin? (I don't know what to make of that weird bullshit, could see town playing around or cheeky scum in a void but still think mastin is scum independent of this issue so yeah)

If Kagami is indeed scum I feel a little better about Kaze (why the hell do you vote hop to your scumbuddy there?)

Muffin and Metal Sonic look odd as well; MS calls Muffin "good" right after Muffin votes another wagon, but MS continues to vote Muffin throughout that exchange and later calls Cabd town, so I don't know what is even going on with this.

Gooner and mollie's votes look explicitly non-bus-like.

[Cephrir]

too smug to be scum.

o.O

[Cephrir]

Not especially, I'm feeling pretty good about you right now (because you're in a neighborhood with people much scummier than you if nothing else), I'm just not sure when "too smug to be scum" has ever been a thing. Because, you know, hi, I'm the smuggest snake that ever smugged.

[Cephrir]

You transcend smugness pretty much 100% of the time, Cabd. You've long since gone beyond description.

[Cephrir]

I've never seen a chief protagonist as fake-claim.

I've seen it. I've done it. It's theme game design 101.

How to make a theme:

1. Place {numplayers} "good" names into random.org.
2. Pull the bottom {num scum} out to be fakeclaims
3. Assign the rest to town players

This. Sadly it took me messing it up twice to realize this!

[Cephrir]

I'd be content with a Kagami lynch today. Checking with bork about whether I can just copy-paste my reads list from the neighbourhood here or whether I have to re-write it.

Please let us know what the answer is.

And I agree with your suspicion of Venmar.

Yes to that post but check with bork before copy-pasting anything else.

Nice though it would be to have a potential scum modkilled

it kinda breaks the spirit of the game to deliberately allow it to happen.

And Venmar's not at the top of my list. Others worry me more. I'd prefer to lynch MS from that neighbourhood.

....????

[Cephrir]

3. I dislike Venmar more than I did initially after the Flandre flip. I expect there to be one scum nestled amongst my town reads and he seems like a likely candidate at the moment.

Why?

[Cephrir]

no i actually thought gooner was town as shit when he replaced in and brian wasn't bad either
tone and meta, chump change

This was my instinctive reaction as well when he first showed up. The moonlogic SK hypothesis was a little strange, but I think I like that he's sticking to it when pushed on how silly it is.

Unrelated to this post, are you suggesting AFB is actually an SK?

my professional opinion is that Sangres and Angry Frat BROs are scum distancing. And this is all scum theatrics!

I am so good that I can see right through it!

My professional opinion is that you're dumb!

This was pretty clearly Town-Varsoon, but he wasn't making enough of an impact to draw the attention of a protective role. That's my theory.

And this sort of theory is why you're scum.

Help me break free of my early townread on Skull. He *has* been increasingly strange but I don't especially recall you suspecting him elsewhere. Also, maybe it's your heads crossing, but you suggested that Varsoon wasn't the scum kill and that Skull killed Varsoon, so is Skull an SK now?

Rolenames are not a defense in any way, shape or form; they never have been, and they never will be.

Not voting yet, but Kagami is scum.

Nope. Not even close

I'll give you that her conviction on that point seems townish in retrospect (although it was almost implausible how long she clung to that point after everyone told her it was wrong), but is it town enough to make up for her behavior yesterday? I could maybe be convinced to go elsewhere today, but I don't know that I'm sold on where you're going.

P.S. To what extent is things that went on in your neighborhood influencing you? If at all, care to share?

[Cephrir]

I'll give you that her conviction on that point seems townish in retrospect (although it was almost implausible how long she clung to that point after everyone told her it was wrong), but is it town enough to make up for her behavior yesterday? I could maybe be convinced to go elsewhere today, but I don't know that I'm sold on where you're going.

What was bad about her behavior yesterday?

I think I mentioned that my read on her was going downhill yesterday. In addition to her hating on the flandre wagon for no discernible reason (which is scummy no matter what flandre flips), I distinctly recall thinking she could be a scumbuddy if it turned out to be right. AP makes a good point about the lack of scumhunting but this wasn't really what rubbed me the wrong way. It started when she suddenly declared me scum, voted me out of the blue (at this time I was a viable wagon) then refused to explain why she voted me for a pretty long time. She also left her vote on me after everyone else had moved while expressing that she was lukewarm about my alignment (see: not scumhunting, I suppose) and the Flandre wagon stuff just made it worse. I also had her low-null in the first place for reasons, but I can't be arsed to remember them.

Help me break free of my early townread on Skull. He *has* been increasingly strange but I don't especially recall you suspecting him elsewhere. Also, maybe it's your heads crossing, but you suggested that Varsoon wasn't the scum kill and that Skull killed Varsoon, so is Skull an SK now?

If you go back and look at day 1, you'll see a lot of posturing and poking and prodding among our neighborhood. I tried to stay mostly in observation mode throughout that, but I came out of the day feeling like scum was most likely in Skull and Aegor. I flipped flopped a few times as to which of them was scummier, but eventually settled on Skull. AFB's Aegor read was a factor.

I did a reach-out in the QT thread, pointing out that Skull's scumreads have been very reactive (sort of in the same way that pie's scumreads were, but it was more of a slow boil in some cases) which doesn't look like any sort of effort at a balanced read of the game. I actually thought the orcinus/Skull interactions over her "rolefishing" looked town v town at first. I changed my mind.

I'll look at D1 again. Your point on reactivity is a good one, though (ironically, I guess the commentary about Aegor trying to turn Skull and I against each other could have been intended to turn Aegor and I against each other? lol). I think orcinus is scum, though; is he that bad at distancing?

yes, let's lynch kaze. You can call it a bus.

VOTE: Kaze

Please never do this.

However, you've reminded me that I was thinking Kaze could be scum if you flipped town for some reason.

Even if town would do that so softly, they don't make follow up posts down the line, asserting that FS is still a policy lynch although maybe just not a "bad" policy lynch. Distancing, casting doubt on the lynch, scum motivation.

This. It was really strange. But some of your other points aren't so hot.

[Cephrir]

Your push on me lacks criticism. Especially in light of some of the AFB posts above,

which are very suspicious if that's bro and not AP

. You know many of those beliefs are false.

Why?

[Cephrir]

Why do I keep having to ask why this game? Do you all not realize reasons are a thing?

I seem to recall an era when people actually explained their thought processes.

[Cephrir]

Hey Kagami you did that thing where you ignore me again

Do you even read my posts

[Cephrir]

Did you just ask me why not scumhunting is scummy v.v

I view the FS lynch as policy. She has certainly done just about nothing, but she's hardly the only one. The scummiest thing flandre has done so far is to refuse to divulge her main account; but I think that's just as likely anti-town town behavior as anti-town scum behavior. The appeal to "survivalism" is also kind of bad, but falls in the same category, imo. Still not a bad lynch, just a not bad policy lynch.

This post reeks of scumbuddyness. Ordinarily I don't think fencesitting is scummy but this is kind of ridiculous. It's subtly discrediting the wagon while also saying it's an okay lynch. Uh, what? I guess I could imagine scum trying to get more towncred out of it, maybe that's what you'd argue?

Her only further comment on the FS wagon is to encourage a claim, which doesn't even need saying.

[Cephrir]

Nacho...if you were to hammer Kagami in your next post.


and she flipped town.

I would feel grief.

why would you think either of these things would happen, especially the first one

[Cephrir]

Is anybody actually thinking Im something other than obvious town? I dont see how Im not just obviously town at this point.

Does leaning town count? You were kind of a scumbutt yesterday ya know.

[Cephrir]

And got that town PM you THINK she has as a fakeclaim.

What changes?

Nothing.

a lot?
unless your theory for her to be scum requires her to have received her fakeclaim and thought it was a real role???

I'm not sure I entirely understand what you're saying about this

[Cephrir]

Did you just ask me why not scumhunting is scummy v.v

I think you summarizing that passage as "not scumhunting" is oversimplification.
And if your case consists of "not scumhunting" and nothing more, I'd like to hear why Kagami over other "not scumhunters".

No, I just meant that part of it. The rest I went on to say was wrt the second point.

It's a bit of a stretch to say I have a case at all on someone I am considering unvoting.

[Cephrir]

And if your case consists of "not scumhunting" and nothing more, I'd like to hear why Kagami over other "not scumhunters".

Because her interactions with the FS wagon are TERRIBLE given the flip.

^

[Cephrir]

Java? Really?

[Cephrir]

I guess that'll teach me to put my vote where my mouth is.

[Cephrir]

Does anyone actually have a good townread on mastin?

Wow almost like I've been calling her scum all of day one.

I know right? Weird.

[Cephrir]

Okay no sense hanging onto gambit material

Who are you, and what have you done with Cabd?

[Cephrir]

My read on someone just dropped off a cliff. I don't want to forget this.

[Cephrir]

My read on someone just dropped off a cliff. I don't want to forget this.

You don't seem too concerned about not being around to share it tomorrow.

I'm not. If the mafia blow a kill on me I'll consider it a victory.

[Cephrir]

Well, I daresay neither of those is a vig shot.

In other news, I think Kaze is noticeably scummier given Kagami's flip.

[Cephrir]

@Skull from yesterday: I thought Kaze was a possible bus vote on Flandre and that he would look better if Kagami (who he hopped off to) was scum, but she wasn't.

[Cephrir]

SSK being town requires the nightkill to have disappeared some other way. Do we think there's another protective role, or a roleblocker or something? I feel like if it was a roleblock we'd know it by now.

I feel compelled to point out that the top of 2030 sounds like a very preemptive explanation of why you're still going to be alive on day umpteen.

Definitely would like some more insight on why we would lynch Metal Sonic today. I guess a possible neighborhood slip might have nailed Flandre, but that would require that there be three neighborhoods ALL of which contain a scum?

[Cephrir]

Blah.

Okay, so, as far as I'm concerned the lynch today is between Dan and SSK - the two unconfirmed who targeted sangres the other night

We are not lynching Dan today, or possibly ever.

[Cephrir]

SSK being town requires the nightkill to have disappeared some other way. Do we think there's another protective role, or a roleblocker or something? I feel like if it was a roleblock we'd know it by now.

I feel compelled to point out that the top of 2030 sounds like a very preemptive explanation of why you're still going to be alive on day umpteen.

Definitely would like some more insight on why we would lynch Metal Sonic today. I guess a possible neighborhood slip might have nailed Flandre, but that would require that there be three neighborhoods ALL of which contain a scum?

Pieguy was 1-shot bulletproof as well as a bodyguard. How would that work if he bodyguarded the kill target?

Fucked if I know, I suppose. He did turn up dead tonight though, which means he either protected the kill target this time (and his bulletproofness doesn't stop this), or saved correctly twice? Or was shot one/both of those times?

I wonder if we have any chance of getting that question answered.

[Cephrir]

SSK being town requires the nightkill to have disappeared some other way. Do we think there's another protective role, or a roleblocker or something? I feel like if it was a roleblock we'd know it by now.
Definitely would like some more insight on why we would lynch Metal Sonic today. I guess a possible neighborhood slip might have nailed Flandre, but that would require that there be three neighborhoods ALL of which contain a scum?

Yep, you're scum. (Metal Sonic is, too.)

So... you were changing your mind, and that one literally completely innocuous post changes your mind back to lolcephisscumfornoreasonimwillingtoexplain?

To quote someone famous, "Yep, you're scum".

[Cephrir]

o wait

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

you win this time, nacho

Are you serious? MafiaSSK is very obviously scum.

VOTE: Kaze

o.O

[Cephrir]

I had the strangest dream about this game last night. There were all these deaths and I couldn't figure out where they came from, and someone daykilled the SK by shooting someone who wasn't a player in the game.

In news anyone cares about,

Also if mafiassk were town he would have been shot

Explain.

[Cephrir]

I dont see mastin's scum motivation for calling SSK town here? I guess its possible hes going for credit of some sort, but BLEH. I dont know.

Well, she apparently has some sort of godly ability to read SSK such that she'd think getting him wrong was a scumclaim.

[Cephrir]

1. ActionDan- town
2. Aegor- dunno
3. Angry Frat Bros- *cringe* town?
4. Gooner- town?
9. Kazekirimaru- scum?
10. macmollie- town?
11. MafiaSSK- scum?
12. mastin2- scum
13. Metal Sonic- dunno
14. orcinus_theoriginal- scum
16. sangres- town if SSK is scum; town? otherwise
17. Skullduggery- dunno. might be scum just bc of neighborhoods; I hate that logic but the flandre possible slip makes this more reasonable
19. Venmar- town?
20. zMuffinMan- town?

Kaze: SSK can potentially be town because we don't know how pie's role worked.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: orcinus

I'm not sure how much sense it makes to leave the SSK question unanswered today, but I guess if he's actually a tracker someone will have to shoot him eventually...?
If we're doing something else today though then this is what I want to do.

[Cephrir]

Kaze: SSK can potentially be town because we don't know how pie's role worked.

You think that of the four that targeted sangres, not a one was anything other than Town?

I'm just saying that's why people are considering it. I think he's probably scum but it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

[Cephrir]

Dan conspiracy. Why don't I have a cop result right now?

I can't tell if this is serious, but if it is, I can think of a possible reason.

[Cephrir]

U suck

(It could easily be something else, but it sounds like you know)

[Cephrir]

Feels too not-manipulative to be mafia?

which mastin posts have /you/ been reading?

[Cephrir]

17. Skullduggery- dunno. might be scum just bc of neighborhoods; I hate that logic but the flandre possible slip makes this more reasonable

What "flandre possible slip" are you referring to?

The post snagres pointed out where he seemed to know one of the neighborhoods (maybe).

she was moaning about being the lynch today in the neighborhood last night I would think if she were town she would here getting her last licks in and scumhunting like a mo fo but she isn't doing that.

Patience. This is my normal level of activity. I'm not the kind of player who makes a dozen posts a day.[/quote]
These things are not as related as you think they are.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: mastin

I refuse to let this continue to claim scum in every single post. I'm done playing with a player who refuses to even pretend to have a town role PM. Please lynch mastin.

[Cephrir]

Gooner, you can't just do that. That's not how anything works. I appreciate the effort though.

Well, I daresay neither of those is a vig shot.

In other news, I think Kaze is noticeably scummier given Kagami's flip.

Why?

Because Kagami being scum was the only thing preventing me from thinking he was a likely buddy for FS.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: SSK

Fine. You guys are boring.

[Cephrir]

Noooo stop speedlynching SSK, guys. How am I supposed to regain towncred if I'm not on this wagon~?

Then again you could all be dead wrong.

Doubtful, though.

Let's do this, then:

Stating intent to hammer

I know this is meant to be cheeky but there is nothing right with this post

[Cephrir]

That doesn't explain anything.

[Cephrir]

I'm almost beginning to believe that SSK is somehow town exclusively because mastinscum is so upset about it and wants the townred so badly, and for absolutely zero other reason.

[Cephrir]

I'm almost beginning to believe that SSK is somehow town exclusively because mastinscum is so upset about it and wants the townred so badly, and for absolutely zero other reason.

IF YOU WERE EVEN REMOTELY TOWN, YOU WOULD BACK THIS DAMN STATEMENT WITH A VOTE.

C'mon. You were voting me earlier. Why not move it back, here and now?

Oh, that's right.

BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM TAKING A FREE MISLYNCH.

Because I know I can't get you lynched. It's okay, I have some level of confidence it'll happen eventually, probably after we've lynched me though, seeing as I can't 1v1 my way out of a paper bag.

[Cephrir]

IF YOU WERE EVEN REMOTELY TOWN, YOU WOULD BACK THIS DAMN STATEMENT WITH A VOTE.

Right back at you?

I'm starting to think you NEVER draw town these days. You realize your vote is still on MS, right?

lol

seriously why does it take this craplogic being pointed at oneself before people actually notice that mastin is just obviously scum, idgi

[Cephrir]

[5] MafiaSSK (Skullduggery, ActionDan, Gooner, Cephrir, Aegor, sangres)

[Cephrir]

That's almost a confirmation that there's a scum in that neighborhood. I can't imagine why someone would not own up to that.

[Cephrir]

We'll probably have to wait until he's prodded.

[Cephrir]

Also, is there really any chance we're going to not lynch him based on flavor? IF you don't want to lynch someone because they have a remote chance of being a tracker, you shouldn't be on this wagon to begin with.

[Cephrir]

If SSK flips town can we lynch mastin tomorrow for knowing he was town?

[Cephrir]

If he's right then you should lynch us first because we "knew" that kagami was town.

I feel like nacho and I are having one of those games where our reads mesh really well and we're right about nearly everything. Which could be false. It's much less likely for us to have that kind of game in a player list this size.

But, so far we've been right well in advance of the flip about every alignment that's known. Maybe it's easy reads first in this game.

You don't think there's any difference? I don't recall you being literally 100% certain about anything.

Also, mastin is scum anyway, I'm just throwing another on the pile possibly. Whereas you are probably town.

[Cephrir]

Hm, alright. That was almost as strong. Albeit actually based on things you could remotely attempt to explain to anyone, as opposed to seemingly arbitrary insistence.

[Cephrir]

cephrir can you give me something to sheep i'm really lost

You don't need to think today, regardless of your alignment. We're lynching SSK. Tomorrow this might be a more valid thing to say.

[Cephrir]

Also, if you've been reading my posts enough to apparently think I'm town, you'll know I'm going to say mastin.

[Cephrir]

I don't know why I hate the above post so very much.

[Cephrir]

I could really do without having all my posts quoted followed by a 'because you're scum'. Am I doing that to you? No, I'm not, because I have manners.

[Cephrir]

Bah, go scum.

[Cephrir]

Thank god this is finally over.

It's okay mollie, that wasn't possible.

Aegor is bad.