Mini 1547 - Wicked Mafia (Game Over!)


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Post Post #11 (isolation #0) » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:13 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Hiiya'll

Vote Bazinga


already obvscum, so I guess I can just tunnel on him all the live long day.
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Post Post #19 (isolation #1) » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:31 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Cool, Bazinga is Mollie.

Mollie starting the game off with a passive mod-vote is not something I expect from her.

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Post Post #24 (isolation #2) » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:36 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 21, bazinga wrote:zdenek thing, like this boggles my mind that you do not know i am a hydra
I didn't read the player list, so laa dee daa, let that boggle your mind for a bit.
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Post Post #34 (isolation #3) » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:54 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Bussing Mina so early doesn't seem like a great strategy, but YOLO!
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Post Post #37 (isolation #4) » Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:57 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Moving right along,
Unvote
Vote: Medea the Alien
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Post Post #96 (isolation #5) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:04 pm

Post by Zdenek »

I would like to see competing wagons on Hanzo and Medea.
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Post Post #98 (isolation #6) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:06 pm

Post by Zdenek »

I think it's pretty clear.
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Post Post #100 (isolation #7) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:13 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 99, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:For those of us without glasses, clear it up anyway please.
Maybe later.
Do you really think that it's such a strange desire?
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Post Post #103 (isolation #8) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:21 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 101, chamber wrote:Its really strange to state it? Because now if people actually listen, you've killed the value of it?
I don't think so.
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Post Post #106 (isolation #9) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:24 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 104, chamber wrote:
In post 102, Mina wrote:Do you think Zdenek is scummy, chamber?
I think he said something profoundly stupid.
:(
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Post Post #109 (isolation #10) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:28 pm

Post by Zdenek »

The day that people actually listen to me about such things in mafia game has yet to come, so I didn't really expect wagons to magically form on either Hanzo or Medea. I also didn't really feel like making a nit-picky post pointing out the lines in their posts that I took issue with. I decided that I would just make the post that I did to indicate my suspicion of the two of them.

Chamber, why was it profoundly stupid?
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Post Post #110 (isolation #11) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:30 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 108, Medea the Alien wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5283668

Reminds me completely of Hanzo. (HP was town, fwiw)
Are you just talking about their takes on hydras?
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Post Post #112 (isolation #12) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:38 pm

Post by Zdenek »

I don't recall you being obnoxiously literal in past games.
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Post Post #114 (isolation #13) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:39 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Chamber, I'm also pretty that I've only seen you as town.
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Post Post #118 (isolation #14) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:00 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 115, chamber wrote:2 hydra games come to mind (flash and entanglement).
Which hydras?
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Post Post #126 (isolation #15) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:12 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 123, chamber wrote:
In post 112, Zdenek wrote:I don't recall you being obnoxiously literal in past games.
Competing wagons between scum kind of suck? Its better to have scum/town competing wagons so you can actually learn things about those partaking.
What are your takes on Medea and Hanzo?
In post 124, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:That's simple enough to express.
Sure it is. Still, maybe later.
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Post Post #131 (isolation #16) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:20 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 127, chamber wrote:
In post 126, Zdenek wrote:What are your takes on Medea and Hanzo?
Nothing.
So you aren't bothered by the fact that Medea gave an early, unjustified, town read on Bazinga, thinking that it was Mollie posting. Hasn't explained the town read, despite people asking about it, and hasn't commented on the fact that it wasn't even Mollie posting at the time?
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Post Post #133 (isolation #17) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:22 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 128, Malakittens wrote:Why can't you explain it now, why exactly?.
I'm more interested in the stances that people take and how they react to me.
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Post Post #168 (isolation #18) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:55 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:how many posts from a user does it take to have a townread, at the minimum? One? Ten? Twenty? 100? Where's the bar set?
It's not a number of posts thing. It's a quality of the explanation thing.
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Post Post #173 (isolation #19) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:00 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 169, Medea the Alien wrote:
In post 168, Zdenek wrote:
In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:how many posts from a user does it take to have a townread, at the minimum? One? Ten? Twenty? 100? Where's the bar set?
It's not a number of posts thing. It's a quality of the explanation thing.
In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote: As far as it being the other head posting, if anything that strengthens the read. If he'll forgive the statement, Bert's recent scumplay has been so utterly shit that I can't see him rocking off these terrible games and leaping into the forefront here, going as far to playfully impersonate the other head. Mollie OTOH is crafty enough as scum that she'd be sending out "mebbe X drew scum" reads on players, and using her "perfect meta" to drive lynches that way. She's not. She's town.
Here you are, then.
What scum games of Bert's are you referring to?
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Post Post #175 (isolation #20) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:02 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 172, bazinga wrote:
In post 168, Zdenek wrote:
In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:how many posts from a user does it take to have a townread, at the minimum? One? Ten? Twenty? 100? Where's the bar set?
It's not a number of posts thing. It's a quality of the explanation thing.
I find this funny when you are unwilling to give explanations for your reads!
I think there is more of a problem with injustified town reads early in the game, since it's an easy way to buddy a player, and my impression is that doing that with Mollie could especially beneficial since she gets emotional.
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Post Post #180 (isolation #21) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:06 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 14, bazinga wrote:mebbe we should have every1 draw out the day even with this confscum mina
In post 17, bazinga wrote:chamber mebbe you shouldnt jump out and scumclaim and make it so easy
In post 29, Medea the Alien wrote:P-edit: Also mollie seems pretty town on page one/two, cool.
In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:Mollie OTOH is crafty enough as scum that she'd be sending out "mebbe X drew scum" reads on players, and using her "perfect meta" to drive lynches that way. She's not. She's town.
Well, I think my work here is done.
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Post Post #183 (isolation #22) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:10 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 181, Medea the Alien wrote:I see her throwing out the reads, sure, but I don't see her jumping up and down screaming to get them lynched. Do you? Do you see her citing "perfect reads" and "I'm always right" and driving through a wagon? Hell, she even stated her current vote is wishy-washy so much that she had to have bert on board to make the vote.
It was page one. The game was about an hour old.
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Post Post #184 (isolation #23) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:11 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 182, Medea the Alien wrote:But thank you for quoting essentially RVS posts and trying to make it look like I'm contradicting myself, that really amuses me.
YOU ARE TRYING TO ARGUE THAT YOU THOUGHT SHE WAS TOWN BECAUSE OF RVS POSTS.
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Post Post #186 (isolation #24) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:16 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 185, Medea the Alien wrote:You can honestly sit there and tell me you've never gotten a townread or a scumread from somebody's first post(s) of the game, even if they're just RVS posts? Because I have, and they're usually right.
That's not at all what I am saying.

You called her town.
You gave an explanation for why you thought that.
You're explanation doesn't jive with what Mollie was doing.
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Post Post #187 (isolation #25) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:17 pm

Post by Zdenek »

your explanation.

That will haunt me.
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Post Post #191 (isolation #26) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:27 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Thoughts on Medea's BS please.
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Post Post #197 (isolation #27) » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:35 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 192, Malakittens wrote:
In post 191, Zdenek wrote:Thoughts on Medea's BS please.
I haven't read back, but have you explained your scum reads on both Medea and Hanzo considering you wanted wagons on them?

Won't answer you until you have fully explained that.

Plus, I'm better at reading the other head of the Medea hydra. Cabd is an open mystery to me~
I've explained Medea completely.
Now, read my posts and vote them.
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Post Post #245 (isolation #28) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:18 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 199, Malakittens wrote:Yeeeep, nope. Demanding something won't fly with me.

As I said; I'm not good at reading Cabd the head you are currently talking too.
That's okay. Why don't you just give me your take on what I've had to say about them recently.
In post 206, BROseidon wrote:Oh. Lol.

Zdenek wins thread gg.
But no vote ?
In post 217, Medea the Alien wrote:Also, as far as Mala jumping on Hanzo for hating on the hydras goes, if we needed any further proof that this is town-Mala, scum-Mala wouldn't be trying to derail anything that might eliminate hydras with players she would fear could read her, namely mollie among others.
I don't believe that you believe this. I totally believe that you think that it's something that town you would think, but since you're scum, you fucked up faking it.
In post 217, Medea the Alien wrote:Zdenek, if you think Cabd is buddying bazinga, are you not concerned that I'm buddying Mala?
No, I can grok why someone would find Mala town.

I guess I'm going to have to read Broseidon's case.
In post 234, Hanzo_5 wrote:what is your current read of Mina, Bazinga, Medea, Notscience and Me[Hanzo_5]?
Your turn Hanzo.
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Post Post #246 (isolation #29) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:52 am

Post by Zdenek »

I'm mostly indifferent to parts of Bro's case about Mala's semantic contradiction and her hedging, but I can also understand why someone would find them scummy. I think that the points about Mala and Hanzo are fine.
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Post Post #258 (isolation #30) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:56 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Mala
In post 245, Zdenek wrote:Why don't you just give me your take on what I've had to say about them recently.

Hanzo
In post 245, Zdenek wrote:Your turn Hanzo.
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Post Post #261 (isolation #31) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:22 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 260, Hanzo_5 wrote:
@Zdenek,
I am reading Malakittens as scum. Everyone else is null to me.

What is your current read of Malakittens? Would you be willing to lynch Malakittens in D1?
If they are all null to you, why were you asking about them?

I'm null on Mala at the moment - her posting style seems townish to me, but case on her merit.

Why do you think that Mala is scum?
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Post Post #263 (isolation #32) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:25 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 259, Medea the Alien wrote:Believe what you like; scum-Mala's instinct isn't to help people she worries about in my experience.
How come you chose to comment to me about this, rather than Mina or Bro?
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Post Post #264 (isolation #33) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:27 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 262, Malakittens wrote:I already stated my stance on Medea when Hanzo asked me about my reads.
That's not what I asked.
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Post Post #265 (isolation #34) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:29 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 262, Malakittens wrote:I been pretty open about how I'm sure there's one scum in {Hanzo, BRO}.
This is a really strange dichotomy.
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Post Post #268 (isolation #35) » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:36 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 266, bazinga wrote:eta: zden srsly?
I'm not sure what you are referring to.
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Post Post #298 (isolation #36) » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:08 am

Post by Zdenek »

Baz
, what made you incredulous.
In post 281, Medea the Alien wrote:Not a fan of Bro by any means, but we can't put our finger on why. Just something about the way he handwaved the z-fox thing's case on us away while still leaving the door open to jump on later.
This is pretty obviously fake. Can we lynch Medea now?
In post 285, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Zdenek, I want to know who she thinks is town. I'm thinking I can use this as associatives after she flips if i can push my lynch on her.
I don't understand why you would have just chosen those people to ask her about then.

I really dislike Ghatty hiding behind being in a hydra to avoid giving reads, but what's a fox to do?
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Post Post #300 (isolation #37) » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:16 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 299, Malakittens wrote:What does the fox say?
achee achee ach oh
But seriously, why is your vote still on me?
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Post Post #407 (isolation #38) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:09 pm

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I'm still not seeing any evidence that Ghat has actually discussed reads despite what F-16 said.
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Post Post #410 (isolation #39) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:23 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 408, Ghatokaca wrote:Penguin as scum is smart enough to know when to be paranoid and what is expected of her. That she is not confirming to expectations and throwing them all out the window feels like a very town thing to do.
Am I the only person who wants to lynch Medea and then instantly lynch Ghatakaca if Medea flips scum after reading this?
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Post Post #413 (isolation #40) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:36 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 412, Ghatokaca wrote:You are approaching this the wrong way (and a really narrow minded way). You think the reason someone disagrees with a scumread of yours is that they too are scum.
I don't care that you disagree with me.

You're arguing that Penguin is town since as scum she is smart enough to do what is expected of her as scum, but isn't conforming to those expectations.
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Post Post #415 (isolation #41) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:53 pm

Post by Zdenek »

So why aren't you worried about the Mala not being paranoid of Penguin_Alien?
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Post Post #417 (isolation #42) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:03 pm

Post by Zdenek »

I find your reasoning on Mala and reasoning on Medea to be quite asymmetric. With Mala you are willing to consider various nuances that could affect her play, but not so much with Medea.
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Post Post #419 (isolation #43) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Well, I certainly don't find your argument convincing. It seems to boil down to:

- scum-PA wouldn't town-read Mala for a couple of reasons.
- PA is being too aggressive to be scum.
- scum PA would attack Broseidon.

There are various benefits as scum to town-reading players, so I don't really find the first point all that convincing.

I am definitely not seeing the aggression from PA that you are seeing. What are you thinking of when you say that she is attacking and defending people with reckless abandon?

PA does say that Bro isn't looking like town to her, which maybe isn't attacking as strongly as you would expect, but then again you said that you expect PA to start off slowly so I don't know what to make of this.
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Post Post #421 (isolation #44) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 420, Ghatokaca wrote:Her push on BRO is also unrestrained
In post 420, Ghatokaca wrote:It is a feeling of "I know you well and I want you to be town but seriously?" kind of thought process.
Well well well
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Post Post #422 (isolation #45) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Zdenek »

So Ghatokaca can die.
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Post Post #426 (isolation #46) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:27 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Vote: Ghatokaca
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Post Post #431 (isolation #47) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:34 pm

Post by Zdenek »

For clarity, I push Ghatokaca for reads, and F-16 writes:
In post 408, Ghatokaca wrote:Penguin attacking and defending people with reckless abandon here points massively in the direction of Medea being town.
In post 419, Zdenek wrote:I am definitely not seeing the aggression from PA that you are seeing. What are you thinking of when you say that she is attacking and defending people with reckless abandon?
In post 420, Ghatokaca wrote:Her push on BRO is also unrestrained with phrases like "please tell me you are joking BRO. You are better than that" and "Your Mala case is lousy." It is an attempt to see the side of someone she is familiar with while being incredulous of their opinion. It is a feeling of "I know you well and I want you to be town but seriously?" kind of thought process. I find it extremely genuine.
This was a town read that was over-justified with bullshit.
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Post Post #433 (isolation #48) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:38 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 432, Ghatokaca wrote:I think it is a pretty slam-dunk tell. Why don't you?

~ F-16
What?
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Post Post #435 (isolation #49) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:40 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Cause the comment in the first quote about attacking and defending with reckless abandon is a pretty good town tell.
The problem is that I am not seeing it in PA's play, and you seem to be unable to explain that observation.

Preview edit.
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Post Post #437 (isolation #50) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:53 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Explain now please.
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Post Post #438 (isolation #51) » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:01 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 436, Ghatokaca wrote:everything you do is geared toward "refuting" what I say as opposed to understanding my analysis.
The problem is that when I work to understand your analysis, it looks like bullshit.
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Post Post #454 (isolation #52) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:49 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 439, Ghatokaca wrote:This is a push on BRO with conviction in her own position. She doesn't morph her reads to fit with BRO's or weaken her position. She doesn't expect BRO to post what she believes is a lousy case and is incredulous that he did it
So why is this a town-tell for Medea, but not for me?

I think it is ridiculous to compare PA's first 5 posts in this game where she is posting as part of a hydra from page 1, with her first five posts in a game where she playing solo posting from page 173. I understand that there is a difference, but the fact that you are concluding that it's because of a difference in alignments is insane.
In post 445, Malakittens wrote:This is kinda a bit.. Wrong.
Well, okay.
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Post Post #455 (isolation #53) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:59 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 440, Medea the Alien wrote:He's playing in a way that, if he got any of his preferred lynches through (Mala, us, Ghatokaca)
Just to be clear, I find Mala quite town, and regard her as an unacceptable lynch.
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Post Post #458 (isolation #54) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:08 am

Post by Zdenek »

Who wrote that one?
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Post Post #460 (isolation #55) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:10 am

Post by Zdenek »

Nope.
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Post Post #463 (isolation #56) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:15 am

Post by Zdenek »

I would have been much happier hearing something from F-16 rather than you Nacho.
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Post Post #466 (isolation #57) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:18 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 464, Ghatokaca wrote:You don't value my opinions?
Sure I do, but F-16's suspicion of me looks like bs.
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Post Post #497 (isolation #58) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:34 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Medea, I am currently at null-willing to lynch with Hanzo.

Ghatokaca, pointing out contradictions and exaggerations in your arguments isn't handwaving them away. Its pointing out how they are wrong. The fact that you proceed to vaguely argue about them with me as though I am being unfair with you is rather annoying, and I didn't miss your explanations, I just don't believe them. For instance your insistence that Medea is attacking and defending with reckless abandon just looks insane when you point out one player, Mala, who she's defending and one player Bro, who she is attacking. Her attacks on Bro are anything but reckless.
In post 467, Ghatokaca wrote:No engagement. Quote of an isolated sentence which wasn't meant to be read in isolation but as part of a larger wall. No request for elaboration and no explanation of precisely where you disagree. Just a throwaway comment that doesn't serve to advance the game.
If you can't read the sentence I pointed out and immediately see what is wrong with it, you have no business criticizing my play.

F-16, I want you to explain in detail how this
In post 413, Zdenek wrote:You're arguing that Penguin is town since as scum she is smart enough to do what is expected of her as scum, but isn't conforming to those expectations.
misrepresented your position.

What evidence are you think I am failing to go back and look at?

In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5673327#p5673327]post 494[/url], ToastyToast wrote:@Zdeneck: You ask him why he's asking about null reads, then turn around and ask a question about a null read. Ie what is the point of "if they are null to you, why were you asking about them?" If someone is just completely ignoring their null reads, its scummy. Its a useless thing to say, which makes me think you are just asking questions to appear inquisitive and interested.
I was asking about a single null read that I was conflicted on. Not a seemingly random list of player that I was null on.
Both of them commented on that point before me, and Medea chose to ask me about it. It's strange, and I am trying to understand why they did that.
Why should I?
In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5673327#p5673327]post 494[/url], ToastyToast wrote:No explanation as to why this is strange + the word strange being used with no indicator of what "strange" means in this context + its not really a strange dichotomy
Explain it then.

Toasty looks like obnoxious scum.
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Post Post #499 (isolation #59) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:08 pm

Post by Zdenek »

If it's the question about Medea, I still think that she is scummy. Though at this point I doubt that they are scum with you. If it's a different question you'll have to remind me.
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Post Post #503 (isolation #60) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:14 pm

Post by Zdenek »

notscience, could you put your vote on ghettokaka?
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Post Post #505 (isolation #61) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:23 pm

Post by Zdenek »

:(
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Post Post #507 (isolation #62) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:39 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Oh dear lord.
In post 497, Zdenek wrote:I didn't miss your explanations, I just don't believe them. For instance your insistence that Medea is attacking and defending with reckless abandon just looks insane when you point out one player, Mala, who she's defending and one player Bro, who she is attacking. Her attacks on Bro are anything but reckless.
In post 506, Ghatokaca wrote:I just explained to you why you are misinterpreting it. You pulled a quote out of context. It is not meant to be read out of context.
That is not an explanation. That is bs. I don't see how context helps here. You are trying to argue that some one is town because they are smart enough to play in a certain way as scum, and that they aren't playing as you expect them to as scum. If you can't see what's wrong with that, I can't help you.
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Post Post #509 (isolation #63) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:42 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Kill: Ghatokaca
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Post Post #510 (isolation #64) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:43 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 439, Ghatokaca wrote:I pointed it out here. This also applies to the other three snippets that I quoted. That's why I asked you to go back and re-read. I want you to explain how you missed it.
I didn't miss your explanations, I just don't believe them. For instance your insistence that Medea is attacking and defending with reckless abandon just looks insane when you point out one player, Mala, who she's defending and one player Bro, who she is attacking. Her attacks on Bro are anything but reckless.
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Post Post #513 (isolation #65) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:48 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 511, Ghatokaca wrote:
In post 506, Ghatokaca wrote:I explained why they are in . Why do you disagree?
~ F-16
I'm not responding again. I'm wearing out my ctrl and c buttons.
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Post Post #515 (isolation #66) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:55 pm

Post by Zdenek »

They don't.

But I don't think that Medea is scum with Ghato since I think that the read that scum-Ghato is giving on Medea looks like a bs town read that scum would invent to defend a townie rather than one that they would to defend a buddy, since it is so nuanced. If they were giving a read this strong on a buddy I think they would want something more obvious.
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Post Post #518 (isolation #67) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:02 pm

Post by Zdenek »

That's good to know.
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Post Post #558 (isolation #68) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:00 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 519, Ghatokaca wrote:Zdenek, talk to me about your other reads.

~ F-16
Well, I think Toasty has a decent chance of being scum. But that's mostly because his catch-up posts felt like a waste of time, like they didn't focus on anything important.
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Post Post #564 (isolation #69) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:51 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 163, bazinga wrote:I mean I am having a hard time with wondering if this is a collision of worldviews or if you are scum.
could you explain how this thing with Chamber was alignment relevant?
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Post Post #571 (isolation #70) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:19 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Broseidon, what's the deal with that "or another hydra looks most likely to me for scum" post?
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Post Post #573 (isolation #71) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:37 pm

Post by Zdenek »

and Mina.
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Post Post #574 (isolation #72) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:08 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Notscience could you write a few sentences about your thoughts on Chamber?
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Post Post #577 (isolation #73) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:22 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Thanks!
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Post Post #584 (isolation #74) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:03 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Wanna see something cool?
In post 313, Ampersand wrote:UT-hydra's posting has been remarkably lacklustre and wholly lacking in UTness (UT being the readable member of the hydra), so that seems like a good bet for their scum buddy.
In post 338, Mina wrote:I'm fine with your having gut reads, UT. My problem is where you have terrible gut reads. Like...the only reason to scumread Malakittens' RVS posts this game are a bunch of nitpicky, contrived reasons BROseidon and Hanzo have given. If you're using gut to read her, then you should be townreading her. It feels like you saw a couple of people attack Malakittens' early posts and assumed it was a conventional opinion to call her posts scummy. I won't even go into having a gut scumread on bazinga. (WTF???)

I've played with you in Brotherhood of the Wolf, where we were both town and you were quite decent, and in Abarat 2, where you were scum and my hydra was voting your slot from mid-Day One until you were lynched. Sorry, UT, but you're really easy to read
In post 341, bazinga wrote:VOTE: ossy thing
In post 345, notscience wrote:VOTE: osseus
In post 369, Ampersand wrote:More votes for Medea, please.

P.S. Mina pre-empted what I was going to say about the UT-hydra but that's not who we should be focusing on D1 anyway.
In post 371, Ghatokaca wrote:Vote: osseus
In post 423, Mina wrote:I feel like Osseus is more likely to flip scum, and will probably change my vote soon. (If your argument is that UT will become readable, isn't he already pretty readable?)
In post 449, Ampersand wrote:And UT can definitely be scummy early and then turn it around and have his towniness shine through, so no, he's not readable enough yet.
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Post Post #588 (isolation #75) » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:13 pm

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In post 506, Ghatokaca wrote:You also said you find Medea scum in your latest post but null in the previous one.
Quotes please? My scum read on Medea started quite some time ago.
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Post Post #592 (isolation #76) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:20 am

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In post 384, bazinga wrote:nacho's catchup post is awful but I am too chickenshit to go after him but I am really sus of any1 who thinks that was town nacho in any way. like that was srsly scumnacho posting
In post 555, bazinga wrote:nacho reads as pure town to me.
I really wish you didn't make me nervous.
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Post Post #593 (isolation #77) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:45 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 589, ToastyToast wrote:Except it wasn't a waste of time because now I actually know what's going on? I'd like you and the other people with this bullshit logic to respond to my other post. What is so "important" that I neglected to mention? Why is what I have to say so "unimportant"?
Well, that's not what I said, but here are some of the things I was talking about: ampersand's RVS vote on Mina, me asking about Hanzo's null reads, my question to Medea in 263, me commenting to Mala about her answer to a question.

Although after re-reading all of your posts together I think they are fine.
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Post Post #594 (isolation #78) » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:14 am

Post by Zdenek »

Anyway, here's where I am at.

Town: Mina, Malakittens
Weaker Town: Chamber, Bazinga, notscience
Null, not willing to lynch: Toasty, Broseidon
Null, willing to lynch: Medea, Hanzo, Ampersand.
Scum: Osseus, Ghatokaca.

I kind of want to lynch Osseus because an Osseus scum flip would mean that we should insta-lynch Ampersand.
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Post Post #660 (isolation #79) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:15 am

Post by Zdenek »

I have to read the last couple pages, but for now:
In post 595, Malakittens wrote:Can you explain your null not willing to lynch area?
They are people who I don't have strong reads on, but think that I will be able to get a better read on over time or who are far enough from being a scum read that I lynching them today doesn't make sense.
In post 601, BROseidon wrote:
In post 571, Zdenek wrote:Broseidon, what's the deal with that "or another hydra looks most likely to me for scum" post?
Given Mala's overreaction to Hanzo's RVS post, Mala-scum implies hydra buddies.
This is unbelievable. To believe this you would have to think that this put Mala under pressure, and you already mocked that this vote would put Bazinga under pressure.
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Post Post #680 (isolation #80) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:40 pm

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Ampersand not explaining their shifting read on Ossy makes me smile.
In post 675, bazinga wrote:what gives you the idea that defending mala so much is something you should be doing?
I'm attacking Bros' argument because I think it contradicts a stance that he's taken. I also think that Mala's town, but that's really relevant here.
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Post Post #691 (isolation #81) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:43 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 662, BROseidon wrote:
In post 660, Zdenek wrote:This is unbelievable. To believe this you would have to think that this put Mala under pressure, and you already mocked that this vote would put Bazinga under pressure.
Can you give me a better reason for Mala's over response to my vote on her, then?
In post 82, Malakittens wrote:Why is the post bad, is it because you think I read too much into it? I get annoyed when people call out hydras in general and it's not like this game isn't full of hydras because it is. The vote looked lazy as fuck on Bert/Mollie.
Actually seems like an okay response to your vote.

In post 681, Hanzo_5 wrote:Are you scum reading Brosieden?
Null, and talking about his Mala-scum argument is scum hunting.
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Post Post #743 (isolation #82) » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:56 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 717, bazinga wrote:ghatty things
I thought they were sorted? or do you mean sort with the noose?
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Post Post #744 (isolation #83) » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:06 am

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In post 741, notscience wrote:Anyone here played with Burnt Toast before
Yes, but I don't remember much of his play.
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Post Post #872 (isolation #84) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:00 am

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I find it funny that Ghat doesn't post read without consulting Nacho, but apparently ignores Nacho's contributions when he posts his own reads.
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Post Post #873 (isolation #85) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:26 am

Post by Zdenek »

I don't see how Ghat gets to worse than null on Bro.

Ghat's accusation that Chamber's 127 is useless is rather unfair, since I asked Chamber what his read on the two players were. The fact that he didn't have one is an acceptable, even if disappointing, answer.

His accusation that I think he is scum because we disagree is false. I've also never accused him of whiteknighting. I also think that his claim that I have avoided explaining myself is garbage, since I did that about one thing soon after replacing in.

Based on their analysis, I have a hard time understanding why Osseus is null and not scum - a push on Toasty Toast and some agreement in town reads?
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Post Post #874 (isolation #86) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:33 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 797, Ghatokaca wrote:I was able to narrow down scum to 5-6 players and I was really hoping for an enlightening discussion.
Isn't 2 the number that you're looking for?
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Post Post #875 (isolation #87) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:40 am

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Mina could you write something about why you found that Ghat reads post townie? To me it looked like they had fairly convenient town reads, Toasty is a pretty convenient choice for scum based on catching up style. Their case on Bro seemed weak and it feels like they have him as scum because their town reads are voting him.
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Post Post #910 (isolation #88) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:10 am

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Vote: Osseus

L-1.

I still think that if Osseus flips scum that the first order of business is to lynch &. Also, I have no idea what & is getting at in their last post.
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Post Post #914 (isolation #89) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:37 am

Post by Zdenek »

There's something going on?
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Post Post #916 (isolation #90) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:39 am

Post by Zdenek »

Scum. Contentless posting.
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Post Post #917 (isolation #91) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:40 am

Post by Zdenek »

Now, what do you think I was ignoring?
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Post Post #918 (isolation #92) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:41 am

Post by Zdenek »

and why are you questioning me over this and not Chamber?
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Post Post #920 (isolation #93) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:00 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 919, bazinga wrote:It was intentional because you have barely mentioned UT all game as a scumread, much less as any sorta read.
When someone consistently lurks its rather difficult to maintain attention on them.

I can follow enough of what Chamber is thinking by his posting to be fine with him (not everything mind you, for instance, that last thing).
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Post Post #923 (isolation #94) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:08 am

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In post 921, bazinga wrote:When you voted Ossy, the first thing that popped up was I couldn't connect its motivation to your prior play. It doesn't fit, with how you've spoken skeptically of Ghato's play, why you wouldn't pick Ghato over Ossy.
I would rather lynch Ghato to Ossy, but there's 2 days left and that wagon is dying.
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Post Post #924 (isolation #95) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:09 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 922, bazinga wrote:why are you compromising on this lynch
I'd rather lynch Ossy to Bro.
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Post Post #984 (isolation #96) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:21 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 930, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:holy shit, did you see Zdenek's vote on us was TERRIBLE. calling us a scumread when it was an obvious opportunistic lurker vote was scummy as fuck. you guys are seeing that right?
Yes, that's right. I needed to be opportunistic. This just bullshit.
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Post Post #985 (isolation #97) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:25 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Unvote

- I'm not sure scum T-bone attacks Baz in 944.
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Post Post #986 (isolation #98) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:32 pm

Post by Zdenek »

or antagonize Chamber for that matter.

Going back . . .
Vote Ghat
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Post Post #987 (isolation #99) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:44 pm

Post by Zdenek »

Ossy, why do you think that you're responsible for Baz's vote on Ghat?
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Post Post #988 (isolation #100) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:49 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 945, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:I can read Nacho like the back of my hand.
links please.
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Post Post #989 (isolation #101) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:52 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 945, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:It's a fairly predictable thing that is outside the scope of this game, and has nothing to do with our alignment, so if you're letting anyone argue that we're lurking scum, chances are they are scum going for the easy mislynch.
I take back what I said before. Ossy is back to probable scum. They are suggesting that people are scum for attacking them because of out of game circumstances that the players would have no knowledge of. It's garbage.
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Post Post #991 (isolation #102) » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:25 pm

Post by Zdenek »

This
In post 790, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:I have been busy the beginning of the week and then sick the later part of the week hence my absence.
is not
In post 945, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:For real, outside of the game, I am working on my graduate school work. My classes are six weeks long, so every six weeks I'm unavailable to really sink my teeth in a game. It's a fairly predictable thing that is outside the scope of this game, and has nothing to do with our alignment, so if you're letting anyone argue that we're lurking scum, chances are they are scum going for the easy mislynch.
and I still want you guys to answer my questions.
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Post Post #1090 (isolation #103) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:25 am

Post by Zdenek »

Unvote

brb
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Post Post #1093 (isolation #104) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:07 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 996, notscience wrote:
In post 993, Hanzo_5 wrote:It seems to me that Notscience, bazinga, Malakittens, and Ghatokaca are really making it impossible to lynch a player they do not want to be lynched. Is this an acceptable town tactic on d1 to almost prevent lynches withere vote splitting wagoning technique?
I get really bad vibes from this
It seemed pretty genuine to me.
In post 1006, bazinga wrote:I am pretty sure he would!
Okay then.
In post 1013, bazinga wrote:
In post 1007, Mina wrote:This is kind of how I feel right now. I'd prefer another day to explore this read more.

To be fair, I'm also feeling chickenshit about voting BRO.
yeah I feel like you are talking around the wagons that are forming. you are lining up your ability to lynch whomever during this day phase. at this point after seeing you play in this game I kinda wanna see you harping on people esp. the people under pressure <3
This is a nice observation.
In post 1026, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:and chamber you're being a buzzkill right now

this was supposed to be Mina's moment and you've ruined it

she was undertaking a JOURNEY dude. don't you care about her ARC

@Medea
holy fuck you need to learn when to not defend your buddy. he's gonna flip scum soon and boy will there be egg on your face
You have too many scum reads, and your using relational tells between Medea, Ghat and Baz, but you're pushing Toasty while a Ghat lynch is highly probable. This doesn't seem legit.
In post 1031, Ghatokaca wrote:It seems like he is trying to get the cred for a mislynch which indicates that he is unaware of who the town/scum are which is a pretty slam dunk towntell
Considering that you are using this as a town-tell, I have no idea why you are having such a hard time reading me.
In post 1057, Ghatokaca wrote:
In post 872, Zdenek wrote:I find it funny that Ghat doesn't post read without consulting Nacho, but apparently ignores Nacho's contributions when he posts his own reads.
He didn't want to post reads without talking it over with me, then decided that he didn't want to wait to talk it over with me because I was going to be focusing on non hydra games for a while. I know I'm in the seat of priviledged information at the moment, but that one shouldn't have been difficult to figure out.
The contribution I was talking about was in the game thread.
In post 1058, Ghatokaca wrote:You think BRO belongs in null. You think that Osseus belongs in scum.
What do these two opinions of yours have to do with anything? (They don't.)
I read his reads and reasonings and they seemed out of place to me. Considering he's said that his read or case or whatever on Bro is not too well developed, your objection here does't make too much sense to me.
In post 1058, Ghatokaca wrote:I don't often pay attention to your pushes because you have a tendency to get lost in tunnelville: when you get lost in tunnelville, there is a lot of filler that does not make a whole lot of sense. I remember you very distinctly accusing F-16 of fabricating a town read on Medea, and you thought it was fabricated because his reasons are shit. That is white knighting, or close enough for anyone with half a brain to care about.
I don't really that that much of a problem with whiteknighting, its the reasoning that I take issue with.

Now where's that filler that doesn't make any sense.
In post 1089, Ghatokaca wrote:And I'm starting to feel a lot better now that that is finally taken care of.

Sorry, UT.
Could you explain?
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Post Post #1094 (isolation #105) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:14 am

Post by Zdenek »

I want to lynch Osseus because their reads look closer to made up bs than Nacho's.
The only thing I totally don't get is their Medea read, but presumably that's still for some sort of meta reason.
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Post Post #1095 (isolation #106) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:19 am

Post by Zdenek »

Oh that last quote in 1092 was meant to be the Baz counter.
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Post Post #1096 (isolation #107) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:27 am

Post by Zdenek »

Also Osseus' flurry of posts after being run up reads a heck of a lot worse to me than Ghat's.
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Post Post #1126 (isolation #108) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:12 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 1101, bazinga wrote:what do you think the counter is for
I am even more confused now that you have incremented it.
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Post Post #1127 (isolation #109) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:15 am

Post by Zdenek »

In post 1106, Ghatokaca wrote:I am having a harder time reading you because the timing of the tunneling isn't improbable to come from scum aiming for a mislynch.
I actually don't think that I've been tunneling on you. I mean, I've been but I have other reads, but such is life.
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Post Post #1129 (isolation #110) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:18 am

Post by Zdenek »

Me seeing that Nacho posted a lot and going off to read the thread.
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Post Post #1131 (isolation #111) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:20 am

Post by Zdenek »

I think both Ossy and Ghat are scummy and that they could be buddies.
I don't know where I want to put my vote for sure yet, but I'm leaning to Ossy.
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Post Post #1132 (isolation #112) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:21 am

Post by Zdenek »

What is that you are looking for from Nacho?
I didn't think that his reads were all that bad.
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Post Post #1135 (isolation #113) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:04 am

Post by Zdenek »

Nacho's reads look something like:

Town:
Chamber
hanzo_5
malakittens
Medea the Alien
ToastyToast
Zdenek

??:
Bazinga

Null:
Broseidon

Possibly scum:
notscience

Scum:
Osseus pseudotripodis
Mina

Doesn't mention:
Ampersand

Looking over his (as opposed to F-16's) posts in the game, they pretty much the same as what he's been advocating all game.

They are quite different from F-16's. It looks like there is no communication between them at all, which is sort of funny since F-16 doesn't want to give out reads until talking with Nacho, but what was there to say when Nachos reads were mostly static.

I've never been scum with a hydra and only ever hydra'd once, but does this sort of interaction between the heads make sense?
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Post Post #1159 (isolation #114) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:59 pm

Post by Zdenek »

People who hydra a lot, I'd love a comment on 1134.
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Post Post #1174 (isolation #115) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:07 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 1163, Medea the Alien wrote:
In post 1135, Zdenek wrote:I've never been scum with a hydra and only ever hydra'd once, but does this sort of interaction between the heads make sense?
This one?

Nacho hydrae are special beatss right now because he's in way too many games, just got a new job, and sucks at time management. That said, their play here is very similar to this game I was modding:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=38199
Well, that didn't answer my question, but I really don't see the similarity in play that you are talking about.
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Post Post #1185 (isolation #116) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:12 pm

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Vote: Ghatokaca


I'm done.

I just looked through a bunch of his games. When he's scum he fakes thoughtfulness, and that's what he's done this game.
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Post Post #1186 (isolation #117) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:13 pm

Post by Zdenek »

In post 1185, Zdenek wrote:
Vote: Ghatokaca


I'm done.

I just looked through a bunch of his games. When he's scum he fakes thoughtfulness, and that's what he's done this game.
By his I mean F-16, but that should be obvious.
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Post Post #1195 (isolation #118) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:29 pm

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Post Post #1309 (isolation #119) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:17 pm

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The whole mala counter-claimed Bro argument is pretty bogus with Bro not having claimed his number of shots.
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Post Post #1313 (isolation #120) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:20 pm

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In post 1312, notscience wrote:Yo, Zden. You got any chance of moving over at deadline?
I don't want to.
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Post Post #1373 (isolation #121) » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:51 pm

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In post 1368, Ghatokaca wrote:And yeah, Osseus is still scum. Osseus-BRO scumteam makes a good amount of sense. They were counterwagons at some point but they piled onto us.
Lol.

Lynch this.
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Post Post #3407 (isolation #122) » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:31 am

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That Ghat wasn't lynched saddens me.
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Post Post #3414 (isolation #123) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:55 am

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In post 3411, Fenchurch wrote:but... with notsci so adamant that anyone voting Mala was scum, I was rather nervous that voting Mala would look like we were opportunistic-scum trying to get rid of a player who most viewed as town
I think this is a huge problem in mafia. Well, two problems: people being over confident in their town reads and people thinking that other people are scum for disagreeing with them.
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Post Post #3417 (isolation #124) » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:32 pm

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Of course there are certain players that you may be able to read in this way, but that's so specific that it's not really relevant.
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