Mini 1547 - Wicked Mafia (Game Over!)
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- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
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Hi all! I unfortunately cannot post anything of significance until tonight, but I thought I would give you all a heads up in case you were waiting for more people to post things.
I will say that I think Mina/Chamber posts are just two experienced scum-hunters trying to figure out how the other is playing. Neither of them strike me as particularly scummy because of this--I don't think they as scum would put themselves out there right out of the gate.
I will say that I think Mina/Chamber posts are just two experienced scum-hunters trying to figure out how the other is playing. Neither of them strike me as particularly scummy because of this--I don't think they as scum would put themselves out there right out of the gate.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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This is clearly incorrect.[/quote]In post 66, ToastyToast wrote:I will say that I think Mina/Chamber posts are just two experienced scum-hunters trying to figure out how the other is playing.
How So?
More times than not, the attitude both Mina and Chambers have had throughout their discussion would come from town. I'm really experienced too, and I know that there is no reason to put a target on your back early. Obviously scum CAN and DO play aggressively. Its a matter of how this aggression is presented. I see aggressive scum as hopping into an argument and starting shit, rather than creating one themselves.In post 70, Ghatokaca wrote: I dislike ToastyToast's 66. Toasty, if they are experienced players, would they not be comfortable putting themselves out there as scum?
~ F-16
I am aware that this is a possibility. But statistically speaking, its more town than scum.In post 74, Mina wrote:Also, ToastyToast, I'd TOTALLY put myself out this much as scum.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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Ok so I have a lot to say, but my hyper-defensive self can't let this one wait inuntilthe morning (and this goes for all the people who have mentioned me). MAFIA IS SUBJECTIVE. NOTHING in this game is ever 100% certain. I think the actions of Chamber and Mina in their argument are more likely to come from town than from scum. This does not make my read meaningless, it makes me HONEST. Its about fucking probability--there are no facts within this game, only chance. I mean my reads are probably 50% gut, 30% reactions, and 20% experience. These town reads of mine come from the experience portion. And if you have a problem with how I figure people out in every freaking game, then you're going to have to deal with it.In post 212, Mina wrote:Oh, also, I forgot ToastyToast. I guess he can go in scum, since what little he did say was kind of scummy?
When you have a situation in which one option is accurate 80% of the time, and the other option is accurate 20% of the time, would you stick with the 80 or gamble on the 20?
Now my drunk-ass is going to sleep.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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Alright so I'm going to break up some catch-up posts so I don't result in giant wall posting. Honestly it will probably still be a giant wall-post, I can't help myself. Apologies if things I've asked have already been asked--I'm writing as I read.
First few pages have a lot of joking around in it, but Mina/Chambers snapping the game into serious mode is another reason I think they're town.
Malakittens 82is very town
Does NotScience typically troll in a game as he has these few pages?
2) I really couldn't care less what "insight" it brings anyone. It should be pretty self-explanatory.
5 pages in, I find Ampersand, Medea, and Osseus the scummiest.
First few pages have a lot of joking around in it, but Mina/Chambers snapping the game into serious mode is another reason I think they're town.
@Mina: You say Chambers reasons are week, but on the second page. Isn't even a small guilty/lead worth voting for?
aaaand Chambers already talked about it.How is this in any way a good thing? If anything its the biggest negative towards Hanzo atm. That said voting because someone is a hydra isn't automatically negative. Its doesn't really count in RVS, but I'd say its closer to starting the game with a "policy-lynch" claim (just not because of a specific player). If anything Hanzo's vote feels like an attempt to get reactions from people and get the game moving rather than any actual hatred towards hydras.
This is a good point. Of all the people involved in RVS, Osseus' sticks out as disjointed. Early game was mostly jokes, but there were still things that shouldn't have been ignored.In post 56, Mina wrote:Probably more likely to be scum than random chance because it's a jokey vote-and-run on an absent poster with no comment on anything that happened on that page, but it's too early to tell. Now, why are you asking? How much did you expect me to read into that post?In post 55, Medea the Alien wrote:Mina, null or scum on Osseus?
vote given out of RVS without any reasons behind it. +scumpoints.In post 58, Ampersand wrote:Vote: Mina
For future reference, all of our posts will be made jointly, which does mean we won't be posting during working hours.
Why unvote me if you weren't going to move your vote to someone else?In post 63, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Don't like Toasty right now, look at all those scummy posts
Unvote
Stop being so damn unhelpful.In post 67, Ampersand wrote:I feel like both yes and no would work as an answer here, really.In post 63, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Man do I dislike votes without reasons. Talk to me. Is this your serious vote or your 'RVS'?This is clearly incorrect.In post 66, ToastyToast wrote:I will say that I think Mina/Chamber posts are just two experienced scum-hunters trying to figure out how the other is playing.
There is more safety in the former.In post 81, Ghatokaca wrote:Why? This distinction seems arbitrary.In post 78, ToastyToast wrote:I see aggressive scum as hopping into an argument and starting shit, rather than creating one themselves.
~ F-16
Malakittens 82is very town
Does NotScience typically troll in a game as he has these few pages?
1) As I mentioned earlier, its not meaningless. Just honest. It may seem like "scum and town can play in similar manners" is a simple "lesson," but you're missing the point. If I said "OMG GUYS TOWN ALWAYS PERFORMS THIS WAY AND SCUM NEVER DOES THAT," I would be lying. But if I see something significantly more often in town players, then I'm going to give those who perform in such a way townpoints for it. This is seriously how all mafia works, don't see why you think its meaningless.In post 95, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Re: Bolded. Ummm what? This is a meaningless statement. The rest of the post is also unhelpful. "So town can play this way...but also scum can too". Great, what did we learn? That scum and town can play in similar manners? I think we can safely say just about everyone knows this. So then this post boils down to typing a whole lot of words without saying anything. What insight am I, the prospective reader of this post, supposed to take from this?In post 78, ToastyToast wrote:I am aware that this is a possibility.In post 74, Mina wrote:Also, ToastyToast, I'd TOTALLY put myself out this much as scum.But statistically speaking, its more town than scum.
2) I really couldn't care less what "insight" it brings anyone. It should be pretty self-explanatory.
5 pages in, I find Ampersand, Medea, and Osseus the scummiest.
Vote: Ampersand
for now."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
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6-10
2 things you should know before reading this. I think I somehow deleted part of my post. Oops. Also there are a lot of questions for people in here, so if you can actually read them that would be great. I should be caught up by tonight.
So what? How is trying to be spoon fed an answer scummy?In post 129, BROseidon wrote:Because it indicates you looking to be spoon fed an answer instead of trying to think about the motivation behind Hanzo's vote as either alignment.In post 82, Malakittens wrote:Why is the post bad, is it because you think I read too much into it? I get annoyed when people call out hydras in general and it's not like this game isn't full of hydras because it is. The vote looked lazy as fuck on Bert/Mollie.
It should have been obvious why Hanzo's vote went to Bazinga over the other hydras.
But do you honestly think that vote was serious? It was page 2. I mean, come on, Mina guiltied herself and you were voted for being lynch-bait. Aren't those votes technically just as bad?In post 134, Malakittens wrote: I have seen scum hide behind the vote of "Oh I hate hydras. They ruin games because of hydra diss or they ruin games because they aren't normal or they ruin games because they don't sign their posts." Hating hydras isn't a good reason to vote a player, plain and simple.
Is notscience as hopeless as a world that doesn't believe in science?
How convenient. Are you ever lazy scum?In post 152, chamber wrote: This is me actually being invested in a game notscience. IE: town me. You've only seen lazy town me before I'm guessing.
I don't think there is enough on BroSeidon to determine his allignment. Bazinga's reasoning is very vague. Perhaps there will be more explanation as I read on.
I really like that Zdenek response. It sounds like something i would say if attacked for not posting frequently (like, I'm sorry I'm a busy person--except I'm not sorry, so....).In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:I realize that this game is moving somewhat fast, but just because my phoneposting doesn't touch your favorite questions doesn't mean they won't be answered in good time. But since we're on the topic, why don't you tell me; how many posts from a user does it take to have a townread, at the minimum? One? Ten? Twenty? 100? Where's the bar set?In post 131, Zdenek wrote:So you aren't bothered by the fact that Medea gave an early, unjustified, town read on Bazinga, thinking that it was Mollie posting. Hasn't explained the town read, despite people asking about it, and hasn't commented on the fact that it wasn't even Mollie posting at the time?
As far as it being the other head posting, if anything that strengthens the read. If he'll forgive the statement, Bert's recent scumplay has been so utterly shit that I can't see him rocking off these terrible games and leaping into the forefront here, going as far to playfully impersonate the other head. Mollie OTOH is crafty enough as scum that she'd be sending out "mebbe X drew scum" reads on players, and using her "perfect meta" to drive lynches that way. She's not. She's town.
But I dislike your reliance on meta for bert/mollie. You can have a shit scum game and follow it up with an expert performance.
@Hanzo_5: i'm sort of unclear on why you think mala is scum. Regardless of the accuracy of her claim that voting for a hydra is lazy (it actually IS lazy, but that doesn't mean its scummy. Have ya'all seriously never been in a game where someone tries to start a policy lynch?), is it not a town act to challenge a persons seemingly vague and unsupported vote?
I generally hate meta arguments, but I may have to check out some of your game history. There is something about the perceived emotionless nature of your posts that is making my gut twitch. I don't trust people who have little to no emotional reaction to a person's attack on their allignment.
BurrrnnnnnnnIn post 172, bazinga wrote:I find this funny when you are unwilling to give explanations for your reads!In post 168, Zdenek wrote:It's not a number of posts thing. It's a quality of the explanation thing.In post 164, Medea the Alien wrote:how many posts from a user does it take to have a townread, at the minimum? One? Ten? Twenty? 100? Where's the bar set?
If people are going to refer to hydras by their individual parts, either 1)hydras need to label their posts or 2) those saying things like "bert" need to make it clear what hydra that is. I'm not going to memorize who makes up what. Its a waste of time.
1) It depends on the intent, 2) what if its their meta to act in such a way? 3) There is this thing called gut, and certain players have particularly strong ones. Also Mina put it in null-town, which is...still null, so...what exactly is the point of you pointing this out? Seems like a random read to focus on.In post 202, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Mina,At best, these actions can be read as null. There is nothing allignment indicative in regards to "sheeping" and "fluffing" because both allignments can do this without having town or mafia motivation behind it.
@BROseidon: Do you think malakittens is defending bazinga here? Like, is your argument that they are scum together, or do you think it is isolated to a buddying malakittens?
Why do you keep asking for affirmation from other players? For someone who seems to prefer logic-based arguments, you seem worried about how other people see your case. Also, why is it bad to defend another player you think is town?In post 222, Hanzo_5 wrote:
Can anyone weigh in on whether or not this is a logical conclusion? If I got something wrong could someone explain to me a different way to look at the situation that is more correct? Is there a better lynch candidate that I am not seeing right now?
How nice that you know your own playing styles. So what you are saying here is that you guys are going to be hard as fuck to read as a hydra.In post 238, Ampersand wrote: My strengths are more likely to be openness and readability, whereas his are accuracy, insight, and dashing good looks. And I know he values concision and wit, which I enjoy and don't want to foil, but at the same time I find it difficult to express myself that way.
How are these town comments? sounds to me like just trying to get away with the minimum response.
malakittens 248 is angry, but town angry. She isn't a strong townread for me, and I question some of her posts, but I'm not getting on that wagon anytime soon.
BROseidons response to that post: "OMG your sentences have an awkward structure and therefore you are scum! Also yeah I'm totes emotionally manipulative LOL. Also I still haven't called out everyones shitty games but I'll keep saying I will!!!"
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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@Medea: way to misrep. I essentially said malakittens is leaning town. I talked about her within my post. "not anytime soon" = no way in hell I'm joining that shit wagon, but I'm not confident in that town read at this point. Also who determines what is relevant?
Also obviously I referenced things that aren't current BECAUSE I'M ONLY ON PAGE 10. Which is bolded at the beginning of my post.
PEDIT:
@Bazinga:
1) emotionless is referring to Hanzo
2) Fine. Can you please clarify your case? (which is what I thought was implied when I put that in the post)
3) Orrrr its a waste of time because I'd rather not treat a mini game like a large game. Hydras should label their posts rather than make it inconvenient for all the players who begrudgingly allow them into a game.
4) I don't like relying on meta. It doesn't mean meta has 0 value.
5) No. I've played too many games to have to explain my basic mafia approach/theory to people. And I've already explained that my reads are 50% gut, 30% reactions, 20% experience. So what more do you need to know than that?
Also obviously I referenced things that aren't current BECAUSE I'M ONLY ON PAGE 10. Which is bolded at the beginning of my post.
PEDIT:
@Bazinga:
1) emotionless is referring to Hanzo
2) Fine. Can you please clarify your case? (which is what I thought was implied when I put that in the post)
3) Orrrr its a waste of time because I'd rather not treat a mini game like a large game. Hydras should label their posts rather than make it inconvenient for all the players who begrudgingly allow them into a game.
4) I don't like relying on meta. It doesn't mean meta has 0 value.
5) No. I've played too many games to have to explain my basic mafia approach/theory to people. And I've already explained that my reads are 50% gut, 30% reactions, 20% experience. So what more do you need to know than that?
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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Thanks for the responses, I will do my best to answer them; but as I said earlier my aim is to just catch up today, so here are the next 5 pages
11-15
As in the three of them as a scumteam? Why are you making connections between players when we haven't even had a single flip? This just looks like an attempt to chain lynches together.In post 253, BROseidon wrote:Chamber/Zdenek both shining paragons of towniness, btw.
bazinga is also probably town.
Mala+Medea+Mina or another hydra looks most likely to me for scum.
I dislike both Hanzo and Zdeneck here.In post 261, Zdenek wrote:If they are all null to you, why were you asking about them?In post 260, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Zdenek,I am reading Malakittens as scum. Everyone else is null to me.
What is your current read of Malakittens? Would you be willing to lynch Malakittens in D1?
I'm null on Mala at the moment - her posting style seems townish to me, but case on her merit.
Why do you think that Mala is scum?
@Hanzo: It is simply bad strategy to obsess over one read and keep everyone else in null. Even if you are slow at developing reads like myself, you should have some other suspicions at this point.
@Zdeneck: You ask him why he's asking about null reads, then turn around and ask a question about a null read. Ie what is the point of "if they are null to you, why were you asking about them?" If someone is just completely ignoring their null reads, its scummy. Its a useless thing to say, which makes me think you are just asking questions to appear inquisitive and interested.
Useless questionIn post 263, Zdenek wrote:How come you chose to comment to me about this, rather than Mina or Bro?In post 259, Medea the Alien wrote:Believe what you like; scum-Mala's instinct isn't to help people she worries about in my experience.
Then restate your question.In post 264, Zdenek wrote:That's not what I asked.In post 262, Malakittens wrote:I already stated my stance on Medea when Hanzo asked me about my reads.
No explanation as to why this is strange + the word strange being used with no indicator of what "strange" means in this context + its not really a strange dichotomyIn post 265, Zdenek wrote:This is a really strange dichotomy.In post 262, Malakittens wrote:I been pretty open about how I'm sure there's one scum in {Hanzo, BRO}.
No.In post 271, chamber wrote:Issue: I'm the only one voting Mina.
Solution: You yes YOU; vote for Mina.
Bolded is every bad, non-commital thing within this post. Also I love that you think I'm derpy. Its like the antithesis of my game.In post 281, Medea the Alien wrote:You and mala are town as fuck.
Not a fan of Bro by any means,but we can't put our finger on why. Just something about the way he handwaved the z-fox thing's case on us away whilestill leaving the door open to jump on later.Mine's comment about me being a scumread initially due to burden of proficiency struck me as ood andkinda worries mebecause she did something similar as scum in Marketplace 3but not the exact same way so maybe not? Chamber iskinda town, reminding me of red wine and trollie's Macbeth mafia so far. Not liking much of toasty's posts so far, buthe's kinda derp given the one game I have played with him in the past so I dunno.
The rest are still in the jumble-sorter in my head and our skypechat.
Not if you keep this crap up.In post 284, chamber wrote:I'm pretty obvtown.
So do you think BROseidon is a rage-prone player who is good at scum?In post 287, Mina wrote: Also, I never said this was ascumtell. Actually, your heightened emotion and rage over being ignored are the major things that don't quite fit for you-scum, which is why I asked mollie about it. But rage-prone players who are good at scum tend to be good at faking those kinds of AtE.
Ampersands 312 is some good posting A+, especially the "town phrasing" bit.
No one cares about your #hydraproblemsrexuses. Also you think bazinga is scum?! really?In post 315, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:ugh this game is fucking painful to read
I'm doing the hydra thing because I was hoping it would force me to improve because I'd have to talk stuff over before I posted, but all that translated to was me not posting because I wanted to do consensus shit so fuck that noise.
so I'm down for lynching notscience, mala, and bazinga. chamber is impenetrable. mina is blindingly town. hanzo I'm leaning town on because of his hydra thing, I see that annoyance as coming from town rather than from scum.
notscience jumping off a wagon because he has scum reads on it is not scummy.In post 321, Hanzo_5 wrote:@notscience,this reads to me as you are worried about what you look like because of the company you keep more than removing your vote because you think she is town.
You did not answer my question. I'm still waiting on this.
I'm pretty sure I've already explained this 1000 times and it is quite troubling that you insist one needs to talk in 100% black and white terms. Saying that something happens more often with one alignment than the other is kind of an obvious truth.In post 340, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Both posts were me (Bone). It should be obvious who posts what in this hydra.
But he said "well town does this a lot". But then in the same post said "oh but scum can do this too" That is some WIFOM right there. What's the point? That town is more likely? That maybe this is one of those cases where scum is doing this? What am I, the prospective reader am supposed to learn from that post? I didn't get any insight into his thought process here. I don't know if that means that you and chamber are strong town, weak town, scum, fish, etc.etc. It's the type of thing a player can post to pretend to be doing townie things, so I wanted him to follow up on that.
My thought process is that I choose to go with what is more likely the case rather than worry about the "what if its the one that's least likely?" Do you see what the problem would be if
anyone
played in that manner? I'll make an extreme hypothetical case to spell it out for you: "hey guys I'm a cop and I got a scum read but I guess there is maybe a chance that I'm an unreliable cop because the rules don't say it is impossible so don't lynch him kthnxbye"My vote on Amper was more of a pressure vote, really. My main problem with that slot was the evasive answers given in the early game, and a lack of explanation for their statements. Their reads aren't terrible, but match pretty much what everyone else has been saying. Also his chamber scum-read uses "the heads disagree" as a way to stay on the fence; and if CES agrees that both Mina and Chamber are town, then why say "this is clearly incorrect" to my belief that both chamber and mina are town for their interactions with one another?In post 346, bazinga wrote: You voted Ampersand. Do you have a problem with Amper's reads list?? back these reads up please because they look unpersuasive - I am wondering if your scumread on Medea is influenced by the speculation (doubt) about Medea going around here
I have the same problems they do on the Hanzo slot, but the attempt to use zdenek scumplay as a reason for hanzo robot scumplay doesn't make any sense. They are different people.
What exactly are you referring to with the "Medea doubt"? You mean that people find her scummy and I agree with the reasoning behind the wagon?
@Medea: could you write up a quick read list? Almost everyone you've mentioned being suspicious of is coupled up with a "I think they are scum, but..." and other such ambiguous, indecisive statements.
Ghatokaca's 370 quotes tons of things, but has minimal explanations on almost everything.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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16-20
These pages have way less content than the last bundle...
@hanzo: With regards to malakittens, I feel like you are operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" wavelength. For me, I just find most of your case to be invalid; and I've pointed to a few of malakittens posts that I find especially town.
No, surprisingly. Its such a strange defense, and that whole post was a nightmare to read.In post 410, Zdenek wrote:Am I the only person who wants to lynch Medea and then instantly lynch Ghatakaca if Medea flips scum after reading this?In post 408, Ghatokaca wrote:Penguin as scum is smart enough to know when to be paranoid and what is expected of her. That she is not confirming to expectations and throwing them all out the window feels like a very town thing to do.
then just say this instead of disguising it in a long paragraph of "no one wants to read this" or giving examples for an idea most people already support. This isn't really an alignment thing, but your posts feel fluffed up and I thus always want to skip them.In post 414, Ghatokaca wrote:The general concept I am putting forth is that players know how they are expected to act when they are scum.
~ F-16
No.In post 423, Mina wrote: Medea, BROseidon, Osseus, Ghatokaca, Hanzo, and Toasty Toast, three of you are probably town and should step it up. You're the only things stopping us from a perfect win.
Why do you think this makes them less likely to be scum together?Mina wrote:Agree with those who said Nacho's catch-up post was lacklustre (not terrible so much as lacking some typical Nacho fire) and Ghatokaca's Medea-town read is poorly justified (I mean, scum try to look town by implausibly white-knighting townies all the time), although frankly, I think that makes themlesslikely to be scum together. Some posts of theirs hit the right notes, but they definitelycouldbe scum.
I don't see this in Zdenek's game. Disagreements on reads are often a starting point for the creation of a scumread, but its not like his cases are limited to this?In post 429, Ghatokaca wrote:Not you. I was referring to Zdenek mostly. If I have to decide whether someone is bad enough of a scumhunter to think that "contradictions" which are actually they misunderstood are scummy, or whether they are scum not scumhunting deeply enough, it is a little annoying. Same with the "people that disagree with me are scum" mentality. Chamber's naked votes don't help either.
~ F-16
It sounds to me that because Zdenek disagrees with you, you think he's scum. lol. This is kind of how mafia is played. Obviously if someone thinks your scum, they are going to be more critical of the moves you make. Its impossible to play without bias.In post 436, Ghatokaca wrote:Here's the problem I have with your play: you are not considering the possibility of Medea being town and me being right. You are assuming that one or both of us has to be scum and everything you do is geared toward "refuting" what I say as opposed to understanding my analysis. I'll give another chance to read my posts and figure it out on your own. If you genuinely misunderstood it, I'll re-explain it for you.
~ F-16
Are you really just going to say "I have a certain thing" to explain a townread?In post 440, Medea the Alien wrote:This is a joint reads list, cabd's comments in blue, penguin's comments in orange. This list is not in any strength order within each tier.
2. Bazinga (pirate mollie +Bert)
I have a certain thing I look for to find mollie-town. It was there in Red Wedding. It was there in xenoblade. It was there in xenogears. It's here right now. Bert leading off the game coming off of a few super terrible scumgames also is a point towards town.
Even though I didn't like Bert messing around with head impersonation, since then I've gotten genuine scumhunting feelings from mollie. Plus the residual paranoia mollie usually has about me when she's town, as evidenced in her skepticism when Cabd said I'd passed out for the night (which yes, was me falling asleep, not drinking myself into oblivion) Bert's been along for the ride, but it lines up with bazinga-behavior in Antihero's orgo game.
If Chamber is aware that he is playing the way he did in Macbeth, couldn't he as scum use that exact same game style?Medea wrote:Townreads tier:
4. Chamber
Chamber was entirely correct with his remark that this is the same game style he employed in Macbeth. (I said it first chamber suck it) Only thing I dislike was his recent vote onto nachofalcon, but still a townread.
He reads as comfortable to me; beyond that I'm deferring to Cabd's read. Overall I get the sense he's not trying to ingratiate himself with people, which with his short posting style would be an easy path to take.
More bad meta reasons, especially given that your read on Ghato seems centered around his defending ofMedea wrote:5. Ghatokaca (F-16 Falcon + Nachomamma8)
This is a weak townread for me based entirely upon F-16's posts. Nacho's activity is null given his new occupation, but I do wish for him to make time for this game more. That said, scum-nacho could easily mislynch me here given current game state, and I certainly don't see any indication of that angle. Flacon rallying to hard defend his major town read (me in this case) is very reminiscent of his micro 252 townplay.
I'm getting the sense (could be wrong) that there's genuine communication between Nacho and F-16. F-16 did all the early posting, up through him asking about Mini 1531. He wasn't in that game, Nacho was. His linking Malakittens there to my read on her here implies that he was discussing things with Nacho somewhere in a way that scum wouldn't need to do. Scum-Nacho also nearly always takes a shot at mislynching me; for him to come in and town-read me pronto is either him changing a non-broken strategy or genuine town-Nacho doing that thing where he reads me right.
you
in particular.What does "they have no agenda" even mean? Also 1) points for buddying 2)Ghato's role in this game has been minor at best, I don't see him working a "large swath"Medea wrote:In terms of a less self-centered basis for my town read on Ghatokaca, they're trying to work with a large swath of players, they're following up on open-ended lines of inquiry, and they don't feel like they have an agenda, even though they're both strong enough players to take control of the game.[/color]
...wow you use an unreasonable amount of meta reads
1)Seems like you have very little to say about a scum read. Now that I have caught up do you have more to add?Medea wrote:Scumreads:
12. ToastyToast
4 posts, and very little of value. Calling Mina v Chamber town V. town off the bat pinged really hard. His point in 78 is completely invalidated by reading some of mina-scum's past games.
The things he points out are minor; he jumps at the chance to comment on smaller issues. No paranoia on Mina-chamber in-fighting.
2) There's nothing wrong with pointing out things that are minor. Sometimes its the smaller things that have all the juicy details.
3) I am well aware that Mina is a skilled player as both town and scum. Doesn't change the fact that I am reading her town in this game.
4) Whoop-de-fucking-do, I'm not paranoid. How scummy of me.
Also you sure do have a lot of null reads. You could really only put me and BRO down as scum reads?
this is the same reason I have problems with Medea's recent list. They're both relying on meta an awful lot, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were both scum. This whole post by Osseus moves him out of my scum list.In post 447, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:
To me, this boils down to a player hiding being meta-reads in order to try to look like they are scumhunting. Like, this is really bad. Terribly bad even. He's reading Medea as town but has nothing from THIS game to support it? This is an example of why I don't put much stock into meta-reads because it's really easy for scum to do some leg work for meta-reads to look like town, because so many players use meta-reads. F-16, independent of this game, do you believe that players in general don't change their behavior from game to game?
Sorry Nacho, I'm not reading that enormous post right now.
Hmm....482 Hanzo's answers to my questions are all very fair. The only point I still dislike is the one about asking other people of their reads constantly. It is both challenging and unconfident, and not really a style I'm familiar with. Its really hard for me to read someone who isn't showing some sort of emotion, and that's the main issue I have with you at the moment. Its as if you are holding back something.
Well fuck you, too.In post 490, Medea the Alien wrote: TT isn't influencing people as strongly, and if he's the scum I think he is, I'm less concerned about him rolling over the town long-term.
--PA
@Zdenek: I'm guessing you want me to explain why it isn't a strange dichotomy? I think its more or less your responsibility and malakittens' to explain why it is or isn't, given its the two of you who are having this argument in the first place? One of the two (Hanzo, Bro) could see the Hanzo-Malakittens argument as a means to hop on and start a wagon/mislynch. Their connection to the malakittens wagon is enough to link them together within a lynch-pool.
Alright, I'm wiped out, but caught up.
My scumreads right now are: Medea, Ghatoidjoaidjiahfd (the dude whose an airplane with nachos), Zdenek (although I can't see him and Ghato being scum together), and Hanzo (leaning scum more accurate)
Osseus, Broseidon, Ampersand, and notscience are null; Mina, Bazinga, malakittens, Chamber are town.
gooodnight
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
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Will respond to the other things after my classes, just happened to see the ones above:
@bazinga: yeah I didn't really quote you much in my posts, so I'd understand why you think it came out of nowhere. I found bazinga sketchy (gut wise) early game, but the next morning that all seemed to disappear. And I value my gut a lot. Gut read probably stems from Bazinga's proactive nature without being fluffy. Like, sure, they have a lot of humor posts, but they are also always creating content.
For example, in 470 it is clear to me that bazinga is taking my post seriously, and he challenged things that definitely needed clarifying. I think scum would immediately attack the post rather than ask for clarification.
@bazinga: yeah I didn't really quote you much in my posts, so I'd understand why you think it came out of nowhere. I found bazinga sketchy (gut wise) early game, but the next morning that all seemed to disappear. And I value my gut a lot. Gut read probably stems from Bazinga's proactive nature without being fluffy. Like, sure, they have a lot of humor posts, but they are also always creating content.
For example, in 470 it is clear to me that bazinga is taking my post seriously, and he challenged things that definitely needed clarifying. I think scum would immediately attack the post rather than ask for clarification.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
- ToastyToast
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- Location: Los Angeles
You can explain a read without being long-winded. The explanation came off to me as a player trying to make things overly-complicated in order to look like they are doing more work than you actually are.In post 536, Ghatokaca wrote:How does explaining a read constitute disguising it?In post 534, ToastyToast wrote:then just say this instead of disguising it in a long paragraph of "no one wants to read this" or giving examples for an idea most people already support. This isn't really an alignment thing, but your posts feel fluffed up and I thus always want to skip them.
In post 436, Ghatokaca wrote:Here's the problem I have with your play: you are not considering the possibility of Medea being town and me being right. You are assuming that one or both of us has to be scum and everything you do is geared toward "refuting" what I say as opposed to understanding my analysis. I'll give another chance to read my posts and figure it out on your own. If you genuinely misunderstood it, I'll re-explain it for you.
~ F-16
I think I may have misread part of the conversation, so here's some clarification. Can you point out which of Zdenek's posts you believe have confirmation bias, and do you think this confirmation bias is scummy? I've seen this argument from players who think "merrr you already think I'm scum so you don't want to hear anything I say!!!" To which my response is: 1) That is legitimately how people operate. If someone thinks your a criminal, they are going to treat you like one. 2) It looks to me like you were calling Zdenek scummy for this, but now you are saying you don't have a read on him? 3) Disagreeing with someone/"refuting" an analysis is a null action; some players are suspicious of people whose opinions are radically different than theirs, but this has never worked for me. 4) The fact that people need your posts re-explained is why I think your explanations are overworked.ghatokaca wrote:No, it is the other way around. He thinks I am scum because I disagree with him. I don't have a read on him yet.In post 534, ToastyToast wrote:It sounds to me that because Zdenek disagrees with you, you think he's scum. lol. This is kind of how mafia is played. Obviously if someone thinks your scum, they are going to be more critical of the moves you make. Its impossible to play without bias.
Dude, I've been on this website for over 3 years, I don't need your thoughts on the wonders and science of meta reads. Meta can be useful, and I do not discount it completely. The problem is when a player isIn post 537, Ghatokaca wrote:And ToastyToast, meta is an incredibly useful tool to scumhunt with. It gives you a baseline on what to expect from someone, what their town and scum play is like, how react to pressure, how they scumhunt, and what their activity is like as both affiliations. Most non-meta reads that people develop tend to have too many non-alignment indicative tells that are actually playstyle-based as opposed to affiliation based. A lot of common "scumtells" that people tend to use fall under the same category. Meta can be used incorrectly but that only applies to people who don't know how to use meta. Nearly all of the time except once that I've used an extensive meta-dive to develop a read on a player, I've been right. It can be invaluable if you know how to use it.
~ F-16
relying
on meta. People who know their meta can manipulate, and people who overuse meta can be using it to hide the fact that they have no actual thoughts on the current game. If you want to use meta, then use meta. But I don't have to. And as Chamber said, we really should be beyond mafia theory differences. I know mine are "different" than most.I find seeing a players true emotions in a game to help get reads. Why are you so afraid to let it show?In post 546, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey mollie, would love to discuss TT if you're around, seeing as I'm a bit too annoyed at him to be trusted to talk to him directly at this point. (Actually finishing up getting back to Mala on her points and waiting to calibrate with Cabd on some other intervening posts.)
--PA
Better. Except not. Again, what is wrong with focusing on "minor" things, and who are you to determine what's important. I think what I looked at was plenty important. Would you prefer me to just quote a bunch of things players consider "major," just so I can fit in, or to look for things thatIn post 550, Medea the Alien wrote: Because his posts focus on minor points, many of which aren't relevant to finding scum or town, and he apparently has zero perspective on his own play. Fact: if you lurk, you're not going to be influencing people. That's not a value-judgment, it's just the way it is. And for him to think I'm being rude in pointing out that someone with ten posts, half of which comment on nothing recent in the game state at the time they were made, is less immediately relevant than someone with four times that many posts, is juvenile.
As someone who normally lurks in early game, I'm very aware that there's a cost to being reticent, and pretending like it should be discounted is maddening.
Also, LMAO that he gets pissy about us having two null reads when he goes on to have four null reads, including the two players we put down as null.
--PA
I
find important? I prefer doing the latterAlso, I do not lurk. This game opened at a strange time for me, and as a result I fell behind. I assure you now that I'm caught up I'll be in the conversation much more. I caught up to the game, like I said I would. But inherent in "catch-up" posts is that I will be going over things that aren't current. So this point is so much bullshit I actually laughed a little.
Again, I don't have all that many posts
because I was behind in reading the game.
Get over it.I'm more concerned with the fact that you only had 2 scum reads in a 13 player game. Yeesh.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
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...well its not like I'm the only person who has a town read on you? I can figure out someone's alignment based on their interactions with other people. I don't know either of you very well, and as such I'm focusing on what the 2 of you do in this game. Do you find the reasons I gave for the town read scummy?In post 555, bazinga wrote: I agree with all of that from the little I have been able to absorb from his posts. after I read them I can seem to remember a thing he said. I have a different angle in that we haven't engaged and I saw no discernible reason to have us as town with what he has so far since we have not engaged. at all. we are not an easy player to read unless I town it the fuck up in loads of mollie walls and emo meltdowns and start bossing every1 around and then whines when no1 does what I want them to. most players who don't know me tend to scum read me until I do this. I haven't done it this game, I have defo taken a backseat and it is strange how no1 but you has really made a thing about this.
Except it wasn't a waste of time because now I actually know what's going on? I'd like you and the other people with this bullshit logic to respond to my other post. What is so "important" that I neglected to mention? Why is what I have to say so "unimportant"?In post 558, Zdenek wrote:Well, I think Toasty has a decent chance of being scum. But that's mostly because his catch-up posts felt like a waste of time, like they didn't focus on anything important.
I got some questions for Bazinga because I didn't understand a few of their posts (perhaps they were drinking again )
An xpost?In post 569, bazinga wrote:lol, this ought to be an interesting xpost with burnt toast!
Do you know nacho personally?In post 568, bazinga wrote: nacho has a tendency to wear his hydra partner's persona for a bit, so that he can learn new things and get a better understanding of the person he is hydra-ing with. why? cos nacho loves people and mafia provides a fun (lol) medium for that.
And I feel like I missed something. Weren't you the one who impersonated your hydra partner? I don't recall nacho doing this in the game O.o.
I'm a bit confused by this.bazinga wrote:of course I could I be wrong, there is always that possibility that I am being fooled blah blah but nacho knows how close I like to keep him in games and that is not an easy thing to keep up under the type of scrutiny that he will be subjected to it is much easier to keep a distance and wait for the night round to nk me. I guess I feel similar about nacho to how you feel about ces except I am actually picking up towntells.
Easier for you to keep a distance from nacho, or for nacho to keep a distance from you?
The problem is that it makes it difficult for others to read you. You look suspiciousIn post 585, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Ampersand,Perhaps if this were a different kind of game. My play style reflects my mechanical approach to problem solving. I am trying my best in this game esp., to stop my personality from showing through. In past games i've found that becoming passionate did not help me catch scum. In fact it kind of pushed me to tunneling other players.
because
you're being mechanical."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
- ToastyToast
- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3227
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- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
- Mafia Scum
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ToastyToast
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I write as I read, and put down whatever comes to mind. So I actually do expect people to answer my questions. I really don't care if you think its "outdated." That's irrelevant. Its outdated because where I was in the game is different than where everyone else was. It doesn't make it unimportant to share my thoughts on the game, regardless of the timing. I mean, you bring up Fire Emblem Mafia. I played like shit in that game because I decided not to read any of what went on, and as such I was lost and made stupid errors. And catching upIn post 649, Medea the Alien wrote: As for addressing ToastyToast directly:
What sets me off about your catch-up posts is that you address outdated issues to the players in question. It's the difference between noting that a post is scummy, or thinking it might be relevant, versus telling Ampersand to stop being so unhelpful re: post #67 in your post #255. I get having to catch up, having done it as a replacement and a lagging player, but the way you go about it in places looks like busy work, and I don't get the sense that you actually expect people to address every question you raise. Which begs the question of why you're asking them.
is
busy work in my opinion.I thought he was scum, so....Do you know how many times I've seen a player claim "omg they totes going to kill me!" and then it not happen? I'd say Cabd's death was like the only exception to that. I saw a chance to either clear my "parent" neighbors whom had momentum building on them in the thread, or to confirm that Cabd was scum. I don't think that's derpy. Its also a very narrow-minded to take one negative experience with a player and somehow create a meta read for them.medea wrote:In terms of your interaction with us (me and Cabd) are you really surprised that Cabd called you derpy when his one game experience with you was you town-hiding behind you when he told you he'd be the NK? I read that neighbor QT, and his frustration was pretty clear.
Everything I said about my scumreads (Hanzo did have some good answers to my questions, which makes me less sure of his allignment), my Mina-Chamber town reads.....honestly I think everything is "relevant."Medea wrote:What I'd actually be interested in would be if you looked back over your catch-up posts and told me what you still find relevant in influencing your current reads.
But you've also never played with me as scum, so it again feels strange to try to meta me.Medea wrote:In terms of your threat level as scum, to add context to that statement, I've been snowed by BRO-scum more than once. My experience with you doesn't have that level of worry. It wasn't intended as an insult to you, just a reflection on BRO's danger level if he's scum.
I feel like notscience is closer to town because of some of his recent posts (which I will try to expand on later today). I dislike how Osseus has essentially disappeared. Need to read up on BRO, and Ampersand is still null (I find only the Fenchurch side town, which is strange).Medea wrote:Where are you in sorting your pile of null reads: Osseus, BRO, Ampersand, notscience?
--PA[/quote]
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
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ToastyToast
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Medea is using one game Cabd and I played together in briefly to try to form a meta read on me. I was in that game for like a day I think? And spent most of the time confused and wondering how the hell a game that was in its second day had well over 100 pages. And as far as I know he hasn't looked at my scum games, either. So yeah, its narrow-minded as fuck and I stand by that statement.In post 675, bazinga wrote: How is it a sensible argument that "it is strange to try to meta me when you haven't played with me as scum?" Meta doesn't require personal experience.
I'd prefer Medea, but it doesn't seem like that's happening today--ghato would be my second choice. And I'm pretty sure I've already given my reasons (I can repost/expand on them, just not now as Wednesday night is get drunk night).In post 677, bazinga wrote: You too, I'm just looking for if you actually state stances and stuff. Who is today's lynch, and why. One answer please
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
- ToastyToast
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1) I'm pretty sure I've already answered this.In post 740, bazinga wrote:Anddddddd this is exactly what I have been thinking. Toasty doesn't seem to feel strongly about the questions/observations he brings forth, and being "behind" and bringing up points from the distant past allows Toasty to compare/contrast the points he is writing with what has already been said. It's like Toasty's posts are an attempt to increase activity and not much more.In post 649, Medea the Alien wrote:What sets me off about your catch-up posts is that you address outdated issues to the players in question. It's the difference between noting that a post is scummy, or thinking it might be relevant, versus telling Ampersand to stop being so unhelpful re: post #67 in your post #255. I get having to catch up, having done it as a replacement and a lagging player,but the way you go about it in places looks like busy work, and I don't get the sense that you actually expect people to address every question you raise.Which begs the question of why you're asking them.
2) Catching up is busy work--its boring.
3) Would you prefer I just not catch up?
With that in mind, I will be adding some more stuff later today. Happy Singles Day, all.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
- Mafia Scum
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- ToastyToast
- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
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Some games for those who want them:
Town:BB:HOH mafia
Scum:Sercret Society Mafia
Third Party:Breaking Bad Mafia
Secret Society Mafia is old, but its the most current scum game I've had (unless you include one that got abandoned).
Now off to the parties!
Town:BB:HOH mafia
Scum:Sercret Society Mafia
Third Party:Breaking Bad Mafia
Secret Society Mafia is old, but its the most current scum game I've had (unless you include one that got abandoned).
Now off to the parties!
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
- ToastyToast
- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3227
- Joined: February 11, 2011
- Location: Los Angeles
I still don't get why people are so up and arms about the Mina-Chamber thing. People have come up with town reads based solely on gut. Their interactions seemed town to me, and there really isn't anything else to say on the matter. Call my reasons weak if you want, but it doesn't change my read.In post 779, Ghatokaca wrote:SCUM
11. ToastyToast- Toasty's 66 felt off and seemed like he was calling the argument town v town rather prematurely. I felt Mina was town but nothing that Chamber did really resonated with me. His explanation for it in 255 was really weak and seems to be made up after the fact and came down to town starting arguments and scum continuing them which is really just a playstyle tell and not an affiliation one not to mention that Mina and Chamber are experienced enough as scum to start arguments. His dislike of both Hanzo and Zdenek and later both Zdenek and us also doesn't really make sense considering all of those players have also started arguments and I doubt he even believes his whole started arguments theory that he brought up. I also dislike his issues with the depth of our explanations for our Medea read. It seems like he prefers an oversimplified version of it which doesn't capture the reasons for our townread and is actually suspicious of us for providing in-depth reads. I think in-depth reads are better but this is Toasty essentially pushing at something based almost entirely on playstyle. I've played with ToastyToasy in a couple of games (HunterxHunterx and Big Brother: HoH) and I don't get the same feelings that I got in that game and he feels much more calculated and opportunistic here as well as making much less sense in any of his analysis or pushes particularly his interpretation of the argument between Zdenek and me as well as the one between Chamber and Mina.
Your Medea read was one of the most painful things I have ever read. And that's saying something. I'm pretty sure I fell asleep 3 times while reading it. I prefer a
concise
version. And generally when I see someone over-explaining a read, it makes me think they are trying too hard to appear town. I don't get your meta read of me at all. In almost all the games I play, I get votes on me early because apparently I "don't make sense." So I don't really see this as any different? Also you should probably look at my scum games if you want meta.
Yeah the BRO push on Malakittens was strange, but how was it different from Hanzo's push?Ghatokaca wrote:12. Broseidon- I dislike BRO's initial push on Malakittens and I really don't see why any of the things he pointed out are any more likely to come from town than scum. The "case" on Mala which amounts to "long-winded" and "hedging" are more playstyle tells than affiliation tells and I think in-depth explanations are good. Even if BRO disagreed, calling Mala scum for being long winded seemed rather disingenuous. I agree with the sentiment that BRO's rage can be faked as either affiliation and BRO certainly strikes me as the type to be able to fake emotions as scum. I dislike that he doesn't reach out to other players beyond a perfunctory "claiming Masons" with Cabd. The rest of his case comes down to "misreps of his position" that are unconvincing. I also quickly skimmed through Anything Goes and I fully agree with Medea and Bazinga about his rage being different with his anger being a lot more justified in that game and I could see why he would be so mad at being ignored by the majority of the playerlist and lynched. Based on that, his anger here seemed extremely premature and an attempt to keep in line with his town meta. I want to re-read Anything Goes to see what his frustration seems like as town.
My best guess is that Toasty and BRO are scum, possibly with one of Osseus, Zdenek, or Chamber.
~ F-16
Overall I do think your read list is good, so you probably aren't the right lynch for today. I'd be okay with a Broseidon or Osseus lynch at this point, since we are running out of time and they have done nothing that makes me think they are town. Medea still my favored lynch.
Also why are you voting Osseus if you think Bro and myself are most likely scum?
eww that's a bad case of buddying. "Wow! We're BOTH relying on meta too much, so I like you!!! WEHEEEEE!" "I especially love meta reads that disguise one game experience as *accurate data,* because we all know that my one experience with a player is 100% accurate for all other future interactions!" "Oh, I should say something mean about you. HEY NACHO STOP BEING LAZY TEEHEE." "Can't wait to talk to you in the scum thread tonight!!!'Medea wrote:Our reads list aligns almost perfectly and usually I'd get eebie jeebies, but we're coming from the same source (extreme use of meta) so it makes sense. I swear to god I can't wait to talk with you a ton more. (I still want nacho to stop being lazy and get his ass in here though)
was that in your scum role pM?In post 821, Medea the Alien wrote:Oh also, I kind of think everyone assumes this already by default in a closed game state but:
Due to mod accidental wording (I think)we know that there's a roleblocker in the game.
Oh dear baby Jesus, why doth ghatokaca find it necessary to post about 5 times in a row?
This is anti-town behavior. Who takes their wife out when they have people to lynch (just kidding)?In post 844, Hanzo_5 wrote:Alright I am completely fucking lost. LOL I dont know what to make of your guys reactions anymore. I feel like im just staying with my malakittens vote so i dont float off into space. lol Im gonna do a reread and get back on track with this game tomorrow. V/LA for today tho because i have a hot date with the wife. AND YES YOU ALL SHOULD BE JEALOUS!
Bur really, it seems like you are just sort of sitting back on a vote for a lynch that is clearly not going to happen today. The night ends on the 18th, and while that is still enough time for things to say, you should probably get unconfused about your thoughts on the other viable lynches.
THIS LIkE TIMES 100In post 848, bazinga wrote: listen to me mina. do you know what bothers me so much about that particular read? is thatf16 is comparing 2 of bros town games to this 1 and saying he is scummy while ignoring the link to scumbro itt.that meta read was shit, there was no time and no effort put in it and it is so fucking surface that it isn't even funny!ghatty things are not trying to sort bro out. <----- they really aren't and it should be pretty obvious! f16 should giddy and giggling at the idea of going into an in depth meta analysis on bro cos oh I dunno, I have a good amount of experience with him when he has been both alignments? he isn't. my town read on medeas is plummeting for the same reason and I think ghatty things might have been wking a scummate which nacho will do if he thinks his scummate is a good player and will pull their weight. like medeas has not bothered to get back with me on my counter to their argument. but I don't know, I am waffling on them pretty hard too.
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In post 868, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:are yall bitches chinese, you're obsessed with walls love our ghat vote
In post 869, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:oh and the only thing I've read in the last ~10 pages that was important was BRO towntelling like a boss
Yeah so this thing should probably get lynchedIn post 881, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:no u
Unvote:Vote:Osseus pseudotripodis
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In post 957, Mina wrote:Toasty's case is literally, "Look, you posted these unhelpful things." And he jumped off an actual scumread and swung momentum to a policy wagon.
In post 856, ToastyToast wrote: Overall I do think your read list is good, so you probably aren't the right lynch for today. I'd be okay with a Broseidon or Osseus lynch at this point, since we are running out of time and they have done nothing that makes me think they are town. Medea still my favored lynch.
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What?! I think scummy people are scum?! And a majority of the players in this game happen to agree with me? *gasp*In post 969, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Did anyone else notice that Toasty's top scum reads were the leading two wagons? upon reread, I find myself agreeing with you that his vote was even worse than Zdenek's. in fact, the voices pushing for the day 1 hey-let's-lynch-a-lurker-lynch probably contain one scum (chamber, zdenek, toasty). that wagon was just sort of hanging out with a couple of votes for a long time. chamber is probably the least likely of the group to be scum, imo, because he didn't have a lot to lose by sticking with it.
This isn't a lynch-a-lurker-lynch. This is a "get rid of a player who has done absolutely nothing to help the town" lynch
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No? 1) ghato was providing better content, 2) It seems like only 5 people believe ghato should be lynched today; since the day is almost over, I decided to settle. Obviously this attitude is going to be frustrating to you--I've been in that position before. But I don't think its scummy to realize that one lynch is going nowhere, and to instead vote for someone who is leaning scum.In post 976, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:psh, we gave you ghat and mala, not my fault you're so enamored with reading your own words that you refuse to see it
look, ghat was happening and you jumped ship to pursue us rather than lynch scum. you afraid of the bus bro?
Yes because this game has a system of majority rule.Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:dat appeal to the majority
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Um, no. My point is it doesn't really matter if my scumreads happen to be "popular." I don't make up reads to appear original. I actually try to figure out who I think is scum.In post 981, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:appeal to the majority means that your argument was that your read was good because other people agree with you. which is what you were saying.
@mina
you want to vote for ghat. toasty would be a great vote if town had the balls for it but I'm not getting my hopes up.
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I didn't know town could find other town based on them voting the same person. And for that matter I was also voting with you for a while. Woopdeedoo.In post 990, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote: and you're voting with us currently. figure out what that means.
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I'm amused that you think I'm scum, but also think my main scumreads are scum.In post 1026, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:and chamber you're being a buzzkill right now
this was supposed to be Mina's moment and you've ruined it
she was undertaking a JOURNEY dude. don't you care about her ARC
@Medea
holy fuck you need to learn when to not defend your buddy. he's gonna flip scum soon and boy will there be egg on your face
In post 1015, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Do you want to do Toasty then? Hanzo will do it, we'll do it, choo-choo. If ya'll are afraid to nail Ghatkota to the wall today we can do it tomorrow no big deal. Caught scum is still caught scum even if the smell stews in the air for a day. Toasty is caught scum too it's not even funny. (It's hilarious!) I think we could get the required votes for this if we wanted to.
Yeah you're pretty funny.
*intent to vote for ghato if out of time, would like a claim*
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I think ghato's "I've never been mislynched day 1, this is embarrassing" comes off as town. I'd expect more aggression from a scum-hydra consisting of F-16 and Nacho. I wish I could comment more, but I'm in classes all day. Will try to check up if my vote is needed.
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well that last second BRO wagon was definitely scum-driven. Like, we were divided between two people (ghat and Osseus) and you guys somehow decide to lynch BRO? I agree with notscience's current reads, just not sure if Medea is the best choice (over ghato)
I need to rethink some of my town reads...
I need to rethink some of my town reads...
vote:ghatokaca
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I made it clear that it was going to be difficult for me to be there, so you can fuck right off. And I'm not blaming you. You hammered, but didn't have much of a choice given the deadline.In post 1414, Mina wrote:Hey, you know what would have helped save BROseidon? If you'd bothered to show up for the deadline instead of leaving your vote parked on Osseus and forcing BRO to be lynched. You don't get to berate us.ToastyToast wrote:well that last second BRO wagon was definitely scum-driven. Like, we were divided between two people (ghat and Osseus) and you guys somehow decide to lynch BRO? I agree with notscience's current reads, just not sure if Medea is the best choice (over ghato)
I need to rethink some of my town reads...
vote:ghatokaca
Vote: Ghatokacafor now. I'm in the middle of explaining why.
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+10 scumpoints for Hanzo!In post 1415, Hanzo_5 wrote:You what would have helped broseidan? You not hammering him. No matter how you look at it Mina, It was your fault.In post 1414, Mina wrote:Hey, you know what would have helped save BROseidon? If you'd bothered to show up for the deadline instead of leaving your vote parked on Osseus and forcing BRO to be lynched. You don't get to berate us.
Vote: Ghatokaca for now. I'm in the middle of explaining why.
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sorry for third posting.In post 1432, Hanzo_5 wrote:Perhaps I just need to replace out. Im not going to force anyone to play with me who does not want to. And believe me when i say this, there are players in this game who personally do not like me for whatever reasons they have. So much that I recently have not been able to get into any games because of WOTC. Now I know Im not being offensive to anyone or atleast it is not my intention to do so. So its either that or certain players do not think that I am good enough to be in games with them.
@Mod, Like i said I dont want to make anyone have to play with me if they have major concerns with playing with me. For the good of the game could you replace me out? I will keep playing if this is not a good enough reason.
UNVOTE:
Dude. STAHP. criticizing someone's gameplay is not something to be offended by. Have a little more confidence in yourself.
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IIn post 1443, bazinga wrote:this post appears so dense. why are you acting surprised at how the wagon formed up???
am
surprised at how the wagon formed up. I thought for sure Osseus/ghato would be lynched when I left, then came back to see freaking BRO ended up being lynched. Which is surprising."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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As much as I agree that the BRO wagon was scum motivated, what makes you think the entire team would be on the wagon? It happens, but I've rarely seen an entire scum team on one wagon, even if it is a desperate time-limit wagon.In post 1497, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:We believe all the scum are right here (and they are). I know that doesn't eliminate much, but it might as well confirm Chamber and Hanzo as town to us. With how difficult it was to lynch Ghat, cause seriously he sat at L-1 for the looooongest time, that really re-enforces the fact that he is scum. There's no way town Ghat survives that lynch over a claimed-Vig. He had help in avoiding that lynch, and it's among these players in red. Now, we decided that we're not going to flood the thread arguing for the lynch. Literally nothing has changed for Ghat to even move one inch down the scumeter. To give a brief recap for those playing at home, Ghat is scum because A) F-16head does meta dives to pretend to be town. His meta dives do not supplement his scumreading, they replace it. If you're a town player meta diving, you use that to supplement what's going on in this game, something F-16 did not do. Thus he's faking it. B) Nachohead misrepresents shit. Enough said. C) And as mentioned above, town-Ghat does not survive that end of day blitz. He had help from his scumbuddies. So if and when we want to do the right thing, let us know and we'll lynch Ghat in a heartbeat. Does this sound arrogant? Sure. I realize that UT and I are being a little over the top here, but I think it's necessary to get our point across.Broseidon(7)a Ampersand, malakittens, Medea the alien, notsicence, ghatokaca, bazinga, mina
ghatokaca(5) -Osseus pseudotripodis, Broseidon, Hanzo_5, chamber, zdenek
Osseus pseudotripodis(1) -ToastyToast
There are still seven other players that need to be sorted. My feeling yesterday before the deadline debacle was Toasty, but he was not present for it, so he could not be responsible for switching the lynch over to BRO at the last minute. Our feeling is that BRO's lynch was in no way town driven and that cannot be overstated. Even ignoring the fact that Ghat is in the game for a moment, he claimed Vig, claimed players he was likely to shoot, and still got lynched. That's scum afraid of letting him loose at night.
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As much as I agree that the BRO wagon was scum motivated, what makes you think the entire team would be on the wagon? It happens, but I've rarely seen an entire scum team on one wagon, even if it is a desperate time-limit wagon.In post 1497, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:We believe all the scum are right here (and they are). I know that doesn't eliminate much, but it might as well confirm Chamber and Hanzo as town to us. With how difficult it was to lynch Ghat, cause seriously he sat at L-1 for the looooongest time, that really re-enforces the fact that he is scum. There's no way town Ghat survives that lynch over a claimed-Vig. He had help in avoiding that lynch, and it's among these players in red. Now, we decided that we're not going to flood the thread arguing for the lynch. Literally nothing has changed for Ghat to even move one inch down the scumeter. To give a brief recap for those playing at home, Ghat is scum because A) F-16head does meta dives to pretend to be town. His meta dives do not supplement his scumreading, they replace it. If you're a town player meta diving, you use that to supplement what's going on in this game, something F-16 did not do. Thus he's faking it. B) Nachohead misrepresents shit. Enough said. C) And as mentioned above, town-Ghat does not survive that end of day blitz. He had help from his scumbuddies. So if and when we want to do the right thing, let us know and we'll lynch Ghat in a heartbeat. Does this sound arrogant? Sure. I realize that UT and I are being a little over the top here, but I think it's necessary to get our point across.Broseidon(7)a Ampersand, malakittens, Medea the alien, notsicence, ghatokaca, bazinga, mina
ghatokaca(5) -Osseus pseudotripodis, Broseidon, Hanzo_5, chamber, zdenek
Osseus pseudotripodis(1) -ToastyToast
There are still seven other players that need to be sorted. My feeling yesterday before the deadline debacle was Toasty, but he was not present for it, so he could not be responsible for switching the lynch over to BRO at the last minute. Our feeling is that BRO's lynch was in no way town driven and that cannot be overstated. Even ignoring the fact that Ghat is in the game for a moment, he claimed Vig, claimed players he was likely to shoot, and still got lynched. That's scum afraid of letting him loose at night.
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@bazinga: ghat and medea still. I need to reread the bro lynch debacle to figure out whose wagon hop was the scummiest.
@Osseus: fair enough. However I think the later votes (like Mina's) are actually way less suspicious because they were votes for the sake of voting (ie SOMEONE needed to get lynched, and SOMEONE had to be the last on the wagon; if I were present I would've hammered ghat over bro, but that is obviously hindsight and I can't expect all town to make the same decision)
@Osseus: fair enough. However I think the later votes (like Mina's) are actually way less suspicious because they were votes for the sake of voting (ie SOMEONE needed to get lynched, and SOMEONE had to be the last on the wagon; if I were present I would've hammered ghat over bro, but that is obviously hindsight and I can't expect all town to make the same decision)
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What a wonderful town performance! Bravo!In post 1542, Ghatokaca wrote: As for Toasty, will anything I say have the potential to persuade you or is it something you are going to misrep and discount the minute you hear it? If it is the latter, I don't see the point in explaining it to you.
~ F-16
I feel like this post is an attempt to excuse their participation in the BRO wagon. "well,In post 1548, Ampersand wrote:This game is fairly frustrating for me at the moment.
Mina, you asked about our post before the D1 deadline. What happened was: when the claim came out we disagreed about it, CES wrote up a post, we spent half an hour arguing, were unable to reach any satisfactory compromise, and CES went ahead and posted anyway. Also we're in Manchester visiting AVox at the moment, so been pretty busy, hence the V/LA. And it was 3 am!
- Fenchurch
I
didn't think they should get lynched! But arguing is tough!!!!!" Also i'm pretty sure you guys would've been capable enough to come up with a "compromise" (ie who was scummier of the other two wagons).That doesn't make it less scummy. I still have the feeling BRO was your preferred lynched so you could save your ghat scum buddy.In post 1557, Medea the Alien wrote:You can call it a hop if you want, but BRO was our prefered lynch for the entire fucking day, we only left it to compromise, and rejoined it when mollie asked us and it bcame viable.
Also,
1) Why did you neighborize Ghat over someone who found you suspicious? Don't you think it would be beneficial for your town game to neighborize a player most consider town and thus has more ability to back up your claim. It seriously doesn't make sense to me why you would use your power on someone people thought you could be scumbuddies with. I have no confidence in your claim because you could have easily been talking in the scum chat--not to mention there are scum neighborizers.
2) WHy the hell would you even claim? Also you already told us about the roleblocker thing. This claim does nothing but give scum information if you are town, in exchange for a relatively useless piece of information for town. "Oh no, I NEVER expected a roleblocker to be in a game before!"
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I think you are lying about your neighbor claim is the point. Choosing to "use" this power on Ghato is part of the reason why.
Why push BRO in particular? Because there was enough momentum against him to make it possible.
of all the people you could have had a neighborhood with, why choose Ghatokaca
Why push BRO in particular? Because there was enough momentum against him to make it possible.
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agreed, although it is a little soon in the day.In post 1624, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:How the fuck is this sure fire scum lynch derailing from L-1 AGAIN?
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1) Trying to sound informed/active town when in reality everything they say can be boiled down to a few sentencesIn post 1628, Medea the Alien wrote:Hey, TT, why do you want Ghatokaca dead? I've looked over your ISO going back a ways into Day One, and I don't see any particular reasoning for this lynch. At the end of Day One, you liked them for town with F-16 talking about never being mislynched D1. What are the three strongest points against them now? And if you're certain they're scum, what else do you want to get out of this day?In post 1627, ToastyToast wrote:agreed, although it is a little soon in the day.In post 1624, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:How the fuck is this sure fire scum lynch derailing from L-1 AGAIN?
--PA
2) Anyone who somehow manages to escape a lynch in the last moments of a day is suspect; scum momentum shifts to save their buddy
3) You.
Also, ghatokaca is probably the singlemost informative lynch at this point.
What else do I want to get out of this day?
hmmm.
@malakittens
Would you be down to use your power via a majority vote? This way those who are suspicious can test your claim, and you would have to let the town handle the target. If no, then why not?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Soooo your scum pile is a list of people who you are not sure about? And you can't read me or not science, and therefore he is probably town and I am probably scum? This list is strange.....In post 1675, Hanzo_5 wrote:Heres my reads so far.
Town Pile
Hanzo-me
Bazinga- Sure Town
Broseidon-dead-town
malakittens-Leaning Town
Mina-Sure Town
Osseus pseudotripodis-Sure Town
Zdenek-dead-town
Scum Pile
Ghatokaca-Null
Ampersand- Null
Chamber-Toss Up-Probably Town
Medea-Leaning Scum
notscience-Cannot read this player-Probably Town
ToastyToast-Cannot Read this player_Probably Scum
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
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- ToastyToast
- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
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- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
- Mafia Scum
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- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
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Want to know what makes more sense? Scum reading people you think are scummy. What is it with you and your meta obsession? Just because someone doesn't have significant experience with you doesn't mean they can't try to get a read on you.In post 1788, Ghatokaca wrote:Although Mollie's focus on reading me as opposed to Nacho is actually troubling. She is scumreading me who she has barely played with or interacted with before (I think Death Note was the only game we played together and we had zero interaction) over Nacho with whom she has tons of games of experience both on MS and offsite and an extraordinarily high accuracy in reading. When reading a hydra, it makes a fuckton more sense to read the player that you can over the one you can't.
If it was a singular slot with someone you had never played with before, would you just ignore them because of a previous lack of interactions? No. The only difference with a hydra is that there are two different players in one slot--and if someone thinks one of those heads is suspicious, then they should call them out.
Yes I'm sure the scum team is just the people who are voting you. How coincidental.In post 1786, Ghatokaca wrote:The scumteam is probably Mina, Osseus, and ToastyToast, with an outside chance of it being Ampersand. All other players I am reading as town or leaning town. Mina/Osseus interactions make a lot of sense as scum/scum. I'll do more interaction analysis with the others once we see a scumflip. I want to lynch Mina today. Failing that, I'll settle for Osseus or Toasty. I need to analyze a few more things but I'd rather wait until the missing posts come back.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Mina wagon is obviously just a shitty attempt to keep scum ghatokaca alive another day. No, she isn't getting lynched.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
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No.In post 1892, Katsuki wrote:Oh hey its UT you wanna run another terrible quicklynch wagon on me again?
That said my vote isn't in the right place.
unvote, vote: mina
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Funny enough, I'm starting to think you're scum for trying to let Ghato sneak by another day. Also, why would this be a scum team? Did you guys forget that I wanted Osseus lynched yesterday?
@Ghato: Katsuki/chamber slot and medea are obviously town to you?! wtf.
Seriously, I have no motivation for this day because its pretty clear to me what should be done. Stop overthinking things: BRO lynch formed at the last minute, effectively saving ghato from certain lynch. scum was definitely on the BRO wagon, with Mina being
least
suspect given the time limit. Someone had to do it. Malakittens counterclaim (which was really a counter-soft-claim) was a easy, bullshit reason for the momentum switch to BRO, and doesn't make people "less scummy" for jumping on the wagon."A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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- ToastyToast
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How convenient!In post 1931, Katsuki wrote:Why'd you guys make chamber ragequit?In post 1923, bazinga wrote:Katsuki, got any questions for me?
I wanted a scum PM but the moment I saw I was replacing Chamber (and how he replaced out), I knew it was a town slot.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
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Missing the point. Everyone who was on the BRO wagon hopped on for dumbass reasons. It was a crappy lynch to save ghato. Whoever hopped onto BRO because of Malakittens claim is no more "town" for their actions than anyone else. Earlier malakittens suggested her soft-claim was the reason for the momentum switch. Do you think this is accurate?In post 1939, Medea the Alien wrote: And your stance on Mina is utterly inconsistent. First she had no choice but to switch to BRO due to time, yet she was the only one who actually falls into your 'bullshit reason being the counterclaim for switching opinions' category if you actually read the posts in order. So which is it?
I think Mina is town, always have.
Also I DID have a town-read on the chamber slot, but katsuki has managed to destroy that read in just a few posts.
But seriously. The fact that you can't see why ghato should be lynched is ridiculous to me. Like, I will gladly volunteer to be executed tomorrow if I'm wrong.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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- ToastyToast
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ghatokaca seems like a better choice.In post 1962, Ghatokaca wrote:A lot of people have Toasty as a scumread but no wagon on him.
VOTE: ToastyToast
Best lynch for today. Medea, Mina, Kats, Ampersand, Malakittens: join us and make this happen.
~ F-16
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
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-trying to get people of their back by saying "OBVIOUSLY CHAMBER IS TOWN HE QUIT TEEHEE"In post 1945, Mina wrote:What has Katsuki done in his first posts that he only would have done as scum, other than be Katsuki and therefore mislynchable?
.....like in what world is that worth anything? Its illogical.
No one cares. Is this supposed be them showing how "townie" they are for not taking action, but saying they would like to?In post 1827, Katsuki wrote:I want to hammer so badly but not feeling it right now :/
If you'd be much more happy with it, what are you going to do about it?In post 1828, Katsuki wrote:I'd be much more happy with a Mina wagon right now tbh
Unless your "reads" have zero reasons behind them. You don't have to read in a catch-up game, but that doesn't mean you can let everyone do your work for you.In post 1881, Katsuki wrote:It's a terrible post that dismisses the value of the replacements reads.
I've already mentioned this, but in what world do the three of us as a scum team make sense?In post 1916, Katsuki wrote:Funny enough, these are the 3 that give me off feelings as well.In post 1912, Ghatokaca wrote: I think Osseus, Mina, Toasty are probably the scumteam
Because my votes were totally the scummiest. And not that lovely BRO wagon.In post 1954, Katsuki wrote:Still alive, still need to go over those wagons.
What are the chances of all those D1 wagons being town wagons I wonder... it's been a while since I've seen so many substantial wagons in a single day in a mini...
I really want to see toasty dead though... What do.
Well you could always night kill me.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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- ToastyToast
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Except I'm not trying to lynch you? I was asked why my read changed when you entered the game, and that's why.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
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- ToastyToast
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Why are peole ignoring this?In post 1943, ToastyToast wrote:Missing the point. Everyone who was on the BRO wagon hopped on for dumbass reasons. It was a crappy lynch to save ghato. Whoever hopped onto BRO because of Malakittens claim is no more "town" for their actions than anyone else. Earlier malakittens suggested her soft-claim was the reason for the momentum switch. Do you think this is accurate?In post 1939, Medea the Alien wrote: And your stance on Mina is utterly inconsistent. First she had no choice but to switch to BRO due to time, yet she was the only one who actually falls into your 'bullshit reason being the counterclaim for switching opinions' category if you actually read the posts in order. So which is it?
I think Mina is town, always have.
Also I DID have a town-read on the chamber slot, but katsuki has managed to destroy that read in just a few posts.
But seriously. The fact that you can't see why ghato should be lynched is ridiculous to me. Like, I will gladly volunteer to be executed tomorrow if I'm wrong.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
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- ToastyToast
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My reasoning for the read change is essentially you come in here, say you aren't going to read, then suddenly developed reads that take no initiative on your part. And you try to town-read yourself based on bullshit. Replacing out is NOT alignment indicative.In post 1990, Katsuki wrote:And the reasoning for your read change was lolzy at best. (it's pretty bad)In post 1988, ToastyToast wrote:Except I'm not trying to lynch you? I was asked why my read changed when you entered the game, and that's why.
You are in chamber's slot. You are not allowed to meta-read your own slot.
It is no different than if I were to say "Hey guys I'm town." Everyone in the game has an interest to be seen as town. Does anyone ELSE think chamber replacing out reveals his alignment?
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Alive in:0
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This feels strangely like day 1. 2 main wagons of Ghato and Mina, then people decide to "compromise" on a third option.
The three people currently on me are Osseus, Ghato, and Katsuki. And those three are just such a shining beacon of towniness.
@notscience: I am not voting Katsuki. I was asked why my read changed. I am still confident in ghato being scum, and will not change my vote.
Also people continuing to ignore my suggestion that malakittens execute me if I'm wrong about ghato.
I have to go to class, but I'll end with this: Hop on board if you want but its not going to happen.
The three people currently on me are Osseus, Ghato, and Katsuki. And those three are just such a shining beacon of towniness.
@notscience: I am not voting Katsuki. I was asked why my read changed. I am still confident in ghato being scum, and will not change my vote.
Also people continuing to ignore my suggestion that malakittens execute me if I'm wrong about ghato.
I have to go to class, but I'll end with this: Hop on board if you want but its not going to happen.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
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Alive in:0
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1) No. those four people panicked because of the time limit, and made an incorrect decision that lowers their credibility.In post 2000, Fenchurch wrote:a) Even if all 3 scum were on the BRO wagon (which is a possibility), there were still 4 townies there too, so several players (myself included, by proxy) know that there were legitimate reasons to believe that BRO was likely scum.
b) There was a fair chance that the lynch could have swung to Ghato instead of BRO, and as mollie already pointed out, scumteams generally try to spread their votes a bit to prevent all being caught in the ‘wrong’ place - especially if Ghato is scum.
2) This is negated by the fact that the wagon was one of desperation. Scum needed to get something done that wouldn't end with one of them lynched. Even if the scumteam decided to spread themselves out, it would most likely be 2-1.
Which still means the wagon is a decent temporary lynch pool
You seriously don't think the BRO wagon was a scum-motivated wagon?So if someone from the scum team was off the wagon, why would that scum be me? I entirely missed the vote switch to BROseidon. If this is the case then why not chamber or Osseus?
Currently believe Osseus(that vote on me was shit)-medea-ghatokaca are scum.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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"doesn't feel."In post 2019, Katsuki wrote:His posting doesn't feel genuine.In post 2013, notscience wrote:Katsuki talk to me about Toasty :/
He also feels slightly different from the games I've modded with him in it.
My reads aren't coming along easily, I've yet to recover my form from a long time ago. Thus far my scummy pool has included Toasty, UT, Mina, but I don't feel that they are the 3. I'd be shocked if I were wrong on at least 2 of them though.
"slightly different"
"aren't coming along easily"
You sure have a lot of commitment.
This is seriously the problem I've had with ghato this entire game, and ya'all don't seem to realize that.In post 2010, Mina wrote:I do want to say that although I want to buy F-16's fluffy post, and will probably wind up giving him another day for it, my gut isn't completely settled. I still feel like not everything fits, and the turnaround on me is very abrupt and convenient--also, I still don't like F-16's habit of going, "This behaviour is a protown behaviour, which I do to be protown, and which I have done in the past." Maybe it's playstyle differences, or maybe it's because I was recently scum (and had strong scum partners) and know stuff like that isn't impossible to fake. Some of it feels like he's emulating what a "reach-out" should look like. Also, that slot's hydra dynamics are weird.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
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In post 1379, Tammy wrote:
In post 2027, Tammy wrote:
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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- ToastyToast
- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
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- ToastyToast
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ToastyToast
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I like how this was ignored by everyone. If you are town and seriously can't see the problem with this, then you should have your voting privileges removed. Like Jesus how much clearer does this have to be for you guys to realize that the
same people who fucked up yesterday are going to fuck up again.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Well excuse me if I'm not jumping up and down at the thought of letting someone who should be lynched get by another day. Also there are quite a few people already saying "well I think one of Osseus or Toasty are scum, but I'm not sure which one!!!" IE setting up chain lynches.In post 2058, Katsuki wrote:If UT somehow flips town I will sheep you onto nacho. How's that.
If there's one thing I hate about this game, it's that its got too many giant wagons for a game of this size, which makes it hard for me to interpret since I haven't been directly involved in this game from the start.
I do not see Osseus as a shining beacon of towniness by any means, but the current wagon makes me absolutely certain that I won't jump on and join.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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1) This is about the same 4 idiots pushing a lynch when their votes should be scrutinized.In post 2061, bazinga wrote:why does the same four people being on one wagon and also on the next wagon mean the second wagon must be on town too???
also please answer who you think the scum out of those four are, cos you glazed over it
2) If you are on a wagon motivated by scum, and the exact same people are pushing the next one, there is a problem. Like this is seriously mafia 101 and I know you think you're such a "high and mighty experienced scum player beyond the basics," but you are out of touch with how this game works. Those four votes happened
fast
. 3 of those people have a lot of suspicion on them. Do you seriously not think that when 4 people on one wagon that flipped town quickly hop together on another wagon, that these people are all just misguided townies? No. That's fucking bullshit. Bottom line is that at least one of you four are scum (probably 2).3) Who of those 4 is scum? That's sort of besides the point. Why would I want to get on a wagon of people consisting only of people who've been wrong? And for the record it has been clear that I think ghatokaca and Medea are scum together. I didn't "glaze" over it. Ampersand wouldn't be surprising, and you are just severely misguided. But honestly all four of you should be lynched because its a more accurate scum pool probability wise then whatever the fuck you're using.
Let me ask you some questions:
Do you have a brain?
Why are you insistent on making sure the town loses?
Don't you think its more logical to go after people who were on a wagon that flipped town then to go after the people who were against it?
Isn't chaining lynches (via me and Osseus) generally a scum move?
Have you played in a newbie game before?
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Well I think Medea is town, otherwise Osseus wouldn't have tried to throw them under the bus at the end there.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Um no because you know you're still a top scum read of mine.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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@bazinga: what about Osseus' attempt to get a flip to Medea at the last minute? Do you think that was just distancing?
I need to rethink a few of my reads, but with Katsuki dead I think ampersand and hanzo are suspect. Mina is still sort of my big town read.
I need to rethink a few of my reads, but with Katsuki dead I think ampersand and hanzo are suspect. Mina is still sort of my big town read.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
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@Medea: I highly doubt Osseus would try to distance himself from BOTH his scumbuddies, and make them his two biggest scum reads. So I don't know why you think this is such a rapid switch.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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If bazinga has information that I'm town, and there are people building momentum against me, whyIn post 2174, Medea the Alien wrote:I don't care if you're suspicious of me. I think you're scummy anyways for everything I said that you didn't address (possibly because I'm talking to the wrong head, but I don't know how your hydra functions enough to say for sure) and I actually don't like the claimed result with one vote on TT. We're < 3 hours into the day; do you really think that cutting off an avenue of inquiry is necessary/good at this point?In post 2172, bazinga wrote:do you really think we would go from having toasty as a *scumread at the end of yesterday, to hard whiteknighting toasty now???? like seriously that makes me suspicious of you
--PA
wouldn't
it be a good idea to reveal that?"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
Town: 12-10 (I think)
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I don't think its impossible, although I would proabably put Hanzo in the list of possible scums given that he lurked through day 2 after being relatively active day 1. He's been very under the radar.In post 2217, notscience wrote:Your ampersand clear was bad
I run into the issue however that I don't think Medea is scum anymore nor do I think Ghato is so I'm missing a scum
Is Mina/Ossy/Ampersand totally outside the range of possibilities
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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@Mina: in what world would bazinga-toasty scum team make sense? Because he defended me w/ night action knowledge? I really hate doing "well if I were mafia" statements, but this is really a "why would anyone be dumb enough to link themselves like that if they were a scum team?" statement.
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so....you don't think I'm scum?In post 2238, Mina wrote:It mostly makes sense because you'd make this game much easier by actually being scum
And we all know that easy=correct
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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I'm allowed to doubt my townreads.In post 2244, Mina wrote:In post 2161, ToastyToast wrote:@bazinga: what about Osseus' attempt to get a flip to Medea at the last minute? Do you think that was just distancing?
I need to rethink a few of my reads, but with Katsuki dead I think ampersand and hanzo are suspect.Mina is still sort of my big town read.What changed here, Toasty?In post 2223, ToastyToast wrote:I don't think its impossible, although I would proabably put Hanzo in the list of possible scums given that he lurked through day 2 after being relatively active day 1. He's been very under the radar.In post 2217, notscience wrote:Your ampersand clear was bad
I run into the issue however that I don't think Medea is scum anymore nor do I think Ghato is so I'm missing a scum
Is Mina/Ossy/Ampersand totally outside the range of possibilities
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What fake claim? And its pretty obvious you only want me lynched because of my scumread on you.In post 2254, Ghatokaca wrote:Not going to lynch Bazinga for the fake-claim but I still have suspicions of Toasty.
~ F-16
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The ending of Day 2?In post 2289, Mina wrote:What the hell changed from your conviction that Ghatokaca and Medea were the scumteam?In post 2286, ToastyToast wrote:so....hungover....
vote:ampersand
but i'll put my vote here for now...
I think Osseus trying to get a last minute switch onto Medea=Medea town. I would say more but I can't think right now. Some of the things ampersand has said today made me ping, and believe it or not I'm capable of going after more than one scum read.
I've never said my read on Ghato has changed, and it hasn't. Its just weaker.
Mostly I think I got too tunnel-visioned yesterday, so I'm trying to resort my reads.
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All these posts about me are strange because like...none of them really address me.
Also here are the things Ampersand said today that made me ping:
-the problem with ghato (for me) has always said that he says a lot of stuff that can be summed up in a really concise manner, but they make them long and drawn out instead. I feel that this is for them to appear more proactive than they actually are. Even though I feel I focused too much on ghato yesterday, these reasons still stand.
-The statement on Medea comes off as really unsure; and since when does content have to be "the same" as someone else's. If everyone gave the exact same content in the exact same way, then this game would be so shitty to play. Not every player is about "analysis and thoughts and reactions." Not everyone plays in an objective or logical manner, either.
-Medea has talked about roles and setup, but that hasn't been their focus, there is nothing wrong with event commentary and open questions, and this gut-read comment makes 0 sense. Gut reads are no more scum than they are town.
Also here are the things Ampersand said today that made me ping:
So he says this but then quickly turns his suspicions on me? Also notscience is probably one of the towniest people in this game. I'm also confused as to why people are getting Medea scum reads afterIn post 2269, Ampersand wrote:b) I did have a post half-drafted giving all my mixed up reads and uncertainty about everyone, but having talked about it this evening (and done a bunch of re-reading), I'm actually in accordance with CES that Medea-notsci seems the most likely scum team right now, both individually (this is part PoE; everyone else has done things to seem more convincingly townie at some point), and as a viable team. Will try and put together a full list of the reasons when I get a chance.
yesterday
whereas I seem to be the only one who think they are town because of yesterday.What? Whaaat???? Seriously these reads of theirs are so off base to me I can't take them seriously.In post 2271, Ampersand wrote:BTW, having read the posts in the quicktopic,Ghato is probably my top town read now.Anything that I thought was missing from their play in the game is all in there (during Night 2 at least), both Nacho and F-16 gave tons of analysis and thoughts and reactions. Medeacontributed a fair amount too, but less, and the content isn't really the same.More focus on setup spec and role interactions (easier topics for scum to sound genuine about because they are in the dark too), more commentary on events and open questions, less in the way of straight up gut-reads(something that was very present in F-16s and Nacho's posts there).
-the problem with ghato (for me) has always said that he says a lot of stuff that can be summed up in a really concise manner, but they make them long and drawn out instead. I feel that this is for them to appear more proactive than they actually are. Even though I feel I focused too much on ghato yesterday, these reasons still stand.
-The statement on Medea comes off as really unsure; and since when does content have to be "the same" as someone else's. If everyone gave the exact same content in the exact same way, then this game would be so shitty to play. Not every player is about "analysis and thoughts and reactions." Not everyone plays in an objective or logical manner, either.
-Medea has talked about roles and setup, but that hasn't been their focus, there is nothing wrong with event commentary and open questions, and this gut-read comment makes 0 sense. Gut reads are no more scum than they are town.
-This is so bad. Firstly, notscience's response was relatively mild and fits right in with his playstyle through out this game. And instead of sticking up for your read, you backpedal because of it?! Someone saying "how dare you say people are townier than me" is enough to get you to backpedal? Really? I've always found people who don't stick by there guns and reads--at least for a certain amount of time--to be scummy. Instead of countering and continuing to talk about your notscience-medea scum belief, you back off completely.In post 2283, Ampersand wrote:You also seem to be overreacting to what is currently a fairly mild accusation against you (we're voting Medea; she's the top scumread). I'm not that certain, it is a 'this seems most likely' thing right now, but this post does nothing to change my mind, when I compare it to notsci's #328 and #475, as scum as Micro 289.
In post 2293, Ampersand wrote:They never tried to get people to vote Medea. That was just weird rhetoric with the goal of getting Nachohydravotes. If anything, they were pushing us more than they were Medea.
Tamtam, I'm sure you don't mind deleting that.
(Also, this is not Fenchurch speaking.)
In post 2086, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:I include UT and I in the Medea slot because we're willing to vote them. 5 votes each. I included our wagon to be fair, but it consists of different players and is a bad lynch in my estimation. It's simple to get the lynch we need though. Toasty and I switch to Medea to join the four players who have already voted them this day phase or Amper or Notsci switch over to join the 5 players who have been willing to lynch Ghat today. These are very doable options. They are linked like crazy in this game, a majority of the playerlist finds one or both scummy, so let's make this happen. If someone moves back to Ghat, great. If Medea is a prefered option for more players as their wagon held steady for a majority of the day, I will switch my vote right now to make that happen. One of them has to be scum it's 50-50 in my mind.
In post 2087, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Ghat/Medea is a 50/50 proposition. One of these motherfuckers is scum. There's no way this isn't the case. This is a high value play here you can make by lynching either Ghat or Medea. If one of them flips town the other has got to be scum. Don't play to the outside chances, play to the middle of the bell curve. we can talk about the 2 scum out of 9 players in the rest of the player list after this lynch.
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@Medea: Are you saying you would try to have lynched Hanzo yesterday if you were scum? (just clarifying). It seems kind of random. What do you think about Hanzo almost completely disappearing yesterday after being proactive day 1? I wish we knew why he was gone, because that was my biggest problem with him and now he's being replaced.
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Do you guys have anything you want
I also feel like I need to repost those games for all you meta people.
@ampersand: If I am confirmed as town then why are you voting me?
me
to answer? Because all I'm seeing is suspicions. And defending myself is sort of what I do, so....I also feel like I need to repost those games for all you meta people.
@ampersand: If I am confirmed as town then why are you voting me?
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Yes I am a friendly neighbor. NotScience N1, Bazinga N2. I was trying to just be confirmable to all my townreads without being obvtown in thread, but I guess the secrets out.
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FiyeroIn post 2374, Mina wrote:(Complete useless fluff post: Toasty, can I guess that your character is Doctor Dillamond? I'm not sure who else makes sense as a Friendly Neighbour--maybe because he's an Animal?)
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NotScience's response to my claim was super town. He didn't out anything, and instead tried to give reasons as to why I was a town read. Its exactly how I would expect town to react after receiving a friendly neighbor message. Ampersand's read on him has a lot of confirmation bias.
Also could we get a list of claimed roles and a list of who is in the neighborhood? Just so I don't have to dig through for all that info again.
Also could we get a list of claimed roles and a list of who is in the neighborhood? Just so I don't have to dig through for all that info again.
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well isn't that assuming too much? Like we don't know if scum would have the ability to roleblock me.In post 2397, Medea the Alien wrote:Yet TT got a shot off to bazinga apparently. So why does notscience-scum let that happen?
Ampersand's case on us where I respond to it and they go 'well, don't think the response is good enough for *reasons*' makes me all sorts of leery. Heck, you have QT access; you can confirm how the decision to add Ampersand to the neighborhood went down. And the context of the 'town neighborizer' comment. Which would be appreciated.
So why are you still voting TT, by the way?
--PA
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i think Hanzo is probably the best bet for the execution power. (although it'd be shitty if a replacement came in only for them to be killed immediately).In post 2414, Malakittens wrote:See the thing about this is. You're not even *voting* Ghat yet you are trying to tell me to use it on them. I don't object, but as I said if I use it I want everyone's input etc. My choices would be Hanzo or Mina as they are my top two scum reads.In post 2412, bazinga wrote:use it on ghato's slot
@F-16:
Haven't you been analyzing Mina for quite a while now?..
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its easy, but I don't think its a waste. There's a decent amount of suspicion on hanzo anyway. And odds are he will be lynched at some point. So why wait? What does lynching ghato do that lynchin hanzo doesn't?In post 2466, bazinga wrote:it's really easy to lynch a lurker slot, so that's kinda a waste of gladiating imo
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Alright so. You don't think mala should gladiator hanzo. And you don't think hanzo should be lynched, but you think he could be lynched. I don't think this logic is scummy, but its really strange. Do you town read hanzo?In post 2503, bazinga wrote:I am not in support of a hanzo lynchIn post 2501, notscience wrote:Yeah
But she's town regardless
She should use it on Hanzo so people get their heads out of their asses and vote him
I want either ghatty things or amper people
thinking mebbe medeas might have been talking to scum the whole time and that is why their reads are skewed
Part of the reason why I think Mala should use her power. She has been sick so I'm not troubled by her not saying much day 2, but I want to see the power at work. The fact that it has been delayed in use is making me concerned that she may not even have it (even though it'd be a dumb power to fake-claim if she didn't have such a power).I highly doubt Mina is scum though.In post 2491, Ghatokaca wrote:I don't currently have strong feelings for Mala-scum, but I have feelings. Mala ineffectually tunneling for Hanzo on two days in a row when she has a gladiator is probably the most troublesome part, but a lack of Mala reach outs to either of us for two days is also pretty troublesome.
Hanzo had a lot of suspicion day 1 (if you read the first few pages, its really all you'll need). I'd say the main thing is he was active lurking, and never contributed much of anything. I doubt you'd want to read 100 pages, but if you read the beginning you'll get a better idea of itIn post 2509, Aronis wrote:Can you give me a breif explanation of why I am scum, please?In post 2499, notscience wrote:Attention, viewers of this game.
Look at your readslists.
Do you have Hanzo in your scumreads? Please follow the paths below depending on your answer.
Yes- Vote him. Most of the playerlist has professed a Hanzo scumread and yet look at all the people voting him.
No- Why isn't he scum?
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People I won't lynch today: Medea, Mina, notscience, Bazinga
People I will lynch today: Aronis, malakittens, ghatokaca, ampersand
malakittens should hurry and use her power on one of those four "will lynch" people.
People I will lynch today: Aronis, malakittens, ghatokaca, ampersand
malakittens should hurry and use her power on one of those four "will lynch" people.
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I have reconsidered some of my reads?In post 2555, Ampersand wrote:On the one hand, I'm glad that you've got the role that makes you confirmed town, because it makes the game a lot easier from my perspective. On the other, I really wish you'd reconsider some of your reads. On Day 2 you reckoned that 'the same people were fucking up again' and that the Osseus-wagon 'would be a better lynch-pool' (#2053 etc). Now that we've had an Osseus scum-flip do you acknowledge that you misjudged? And please re-read through Osseus-us and Osseus-Medea and see which looks more like bussing. Osseus' push against us was purely them trying to discredit us as we were getting them lynched. Osseus-Medea looks a lot like them trying to adjust their reads to distance from their buddy.
1) Osseus definitely had some people bussing him. There is still a possibility that both Ghato and Oss were scum.
2) While it is possible Osseus-Medea were bussing/distancing, that isn't the feeling I got from it. I think Osseus was making random connections/statements just so it would be tougher to figure out who was on his scum team. Thing is, it was completely unnecessary for Osseus to do that if Medea was also scum. Medea probably wouldn't have been on people's radar if he hadn't said that.
3) Regardless of my opinion of your alignment, I feel like you are barking up the wrong tree. As you say, having the same people on the lynching wagon twice complicates things. I can no longer say "this is our lynch pool." But I also find the fact that the first two wagons were basically the same suspicious. You were the first vote on a wagon twice, but I don't see you as the primary pusher of either wagon. I currently think it is better to look in hanzo/mala/ampersand because I doubt the scum team is as obvious as Osseus-Medea-Ghato.
4) That said, we could always use the execution power on one group and lynch someone from the other group. I'd bet money that at least on of the 2 attempts gets a hit.
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Also, mala. Seriously just use your power now you putting it off is making me more and more suspicious.
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Ah. On that note, since I haven't commented on the friendly neighbor thing: I don't think coming to that conclusion is ALL that much of a stretch. Its a little odd that it came up so quickly, but idk how much it was talked about in the neighborhood. Having someone come right out of a night phase and be like "THIS PERSON IS TOWN!!!" is always going to be something people pay attention too, and most likely night action based.
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@Ampersand: Stop acting like pushing for it to be used is scummy. I want it done asap too, and I'm confirmed town.In post 2595, Aronis wrote:To confirm that she had it. It clears things up and now the town should have an 'easy' deadline lynch.In post 2593, Ampersand wrote:Aronis - why were you pushing for this to be used? Mala could have used it at any point in order to prove she has it. Why did you want it done so soon - especially when you are not even caught up with the game?In post 2586, Aronis wrote:Just use it already.
- Fenchurch
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I'm quite content with scum thinking they can take me to lylo and win lol.In post 2693, Ghatokaca wrote:Do something about it, then.In post 2692, ToastyToast wrote:Somehow I knew I wouldn't die. Scum team thinks I'm dead weight lol.
Also I'm currently on a trip, so I have very limited computer access.
Mina's assessment is very helpful, comes off as pro-town.
I'm not really seeing notscience as scum. I could potentially see Osseus putting one scum in his list of three reads (notscience, mala, bazinga), but if that were the case than malakittens makes more sense.
I'll try to read the Medea stuff tonight, but odds are I won't be getting to the game much until Sunday.
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malakittens is probably the nulliest of nulls atm for me. Definitely wouldn't lynch her today.In post 2820, notscience wrote:Toasty's strong towning me and I don't remember his thoughts regarding Mala but I thought he had her in the green.
Right now I'm leaning ghato scum again, primarily because of how much they are pushing/defending today. Like...they seem really paranoid/worried about getting lynched and I have to figure out if this is scum trying to make one last push to get the game over with or town genuinely worried we'll lose the game if they don't do something.
What I'm saying is I will need to read all he's said soon, regardless of what I feel about Mina scum possibility. I expected to die before my trip, so I'm real behind.
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scummy
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So basically I'm not reading those giant Ghato walls, but I have a few thoughts on the Mina stuff.
Yesterday, a few people were saying that they thought Mina and Hanzo were scum together. The reasons for that were *meh*, but now that Hanzo flipped town, does this change the read?
Planning to do a VC analysis later
Yesterday, a few people were saying that they thought Mina and Hanzo were scum together. The reasons for that were *meh*, but now that Hanzo flipped town, does this change the read?
Planning to do a VC analysis later
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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So this is largely me figuring out a course of action, but figured I'd put it in the thread.
Ghato, Medea, and Mina were all on the first 2 lynches, but not on the third.
I stand by my belief that there were scum on the Broseidon wagon, regardless of whether or not the same people were on the second one. That wagon was really scum motivated. The fact that almost the entire wagon remains alive is troublesome. Everyone off the wagon is getting picked off (bazinga the one exception)
Also, why didn't I see this before?
I can't find my list of claimed Power Roles, which makes this next part impossible....could someone re-post a list?
In post 1379, Tammy wrote:
In post 2138, Tammy wrote:
People who were on all 3 lynches: Ampersand, bazinga.In post 2681, Tammy wrote:
Ghato, Medea, and Mina were all on the first 2 lynches, but not on the third.
I stand by my belief that there were scum on the Broseidon wagon, regardless of whether or not the same people were on the second one. That wagon was really scum motivated. The fact that almost the entire wagon remains alive is troublesome. Everyone off the wagon is getting picked off (bazinga the one exception)
Also, why didn't I see this before?
-Zdenek and Chamber are both killed, and Osseus flips scum. I almost always see scum put at least one of their buddies in their "scum" list, but may not focus on them D1. When scum teams are working, they tend to have players with very different roles. Osseus is their lynch-bait, free to be used as an easy lynch for distancing. Ghato could be described as "over-active." Third person would be someone in the middle, perhaps with a few different reads (This is stream of consciousness so bear with me).In post 779, Ghatokaca wrote:My best guess is that Toasty and BRO are scum, possibly with one of Osseus, Zdenek, or Chamber.
I can't find my list of claimed Power Roles, which makes this next part impossible....could someone re-post a list?
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mkay. So basically I think the scum have PR fake claims.
An executioner power is not inherently town. She gets to go after someone most people are okay with lynching. In this case Aronis. The fact that she wanted Mina lynched remains troublesome. Obviously we pushed her to use it, so I don't think her decision to use it yesterday is scummy. I find this role scummier than a Neighborizer claim.
Neighborizer, again, is null. But what would scum team gain by having a neighborizer? In a three person scum game, this is sort of a useless power to throw in. Also, Medea has used her power to get a ton of information. I would see scum as neglecting their neighborhoods.
Mystery PR claim is a mystery.
Friendly neighbor is town.
We have two roles flipped: a one-shot role cop and a witch of all trades. Did BRO say what all his powers were in the thread? I know he said something about having a vig.
Mod wouldn't give town a role cop if scum didn't have powers.
atm, I think malakittens is the most implicated by the PR side of things. She's also the only person who WASN'T on the Osseus lynch, but WAS on both town lynches.
An executioner power is not inherently town. She gets to go after someone most people are okay with lynching. In this case Aronis. The fact that she wanted Mina lynched remains troublesome. Obviously we pushed her to use it, so I don't think her decision to use it yesterday is scummy. I find this role scummier than a Neighborizer claim.
Neighborizer, again, is null. But what would scum team gain by having a neighborizer? In a three person scum game, this is sort of a useless power to throw in. Also, Medea has used her power to get a ton of information. I would see scum as neglecting their neighborhoods.
Mystery PR claim is a mystery.
Friendly neighbor is town.
We have two roles flipped: a one-shot role cop and a witch of all trades. Did BRO say what all his powers were in the thread? I know he said something about having a vig.
Mod wouldn't give town a role cop if scum didn't have powers.
atm, I think malakittens is the most implicated by the PR side of things. She's also the only person who WASN'T on the Osseus lynch, but WAS on both town lynches.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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*flicks off*In post 2904, notscience wrote:Ghato
You realize you have better chances of MLing toasty than you do me correct
also doc claim. shit. okay. gonna figure this shit out.
we got an investigative, a meh power, a protective, and some other shit. which one's contracictyo
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Executioners can be scum. I'm trying to analyze how she used it.
How so? I don't see scum making such a long analysis of their neighborhoods as part of their strategy. I see the detail in it as pro-town behavior.In post 2897, notscience wrote:You're also wrong about neglecting neighborhoods
Not sure what you mean with the first part. We know scum targeted BRO and the first two NKs (given that scum killed them).In post 2901, Medea the Alien wrote:TT, your point about 779, how does that track with BRO being dead D1, and the other two being the first two NKs? And by the end of N2, if Ghatokaca was scum, they were clued into the likelihood of you being FN and so unlynchable town. And they helped bus the one scum on the list. That's a hell of a weird interaction.
-Why does the FN point matter?
Bussing a scum-buddy when you are the competing wagon isn't really that weird. 2 players from the same scum team hating on each other is pretty common.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Either way.In post 2915, Malakittens wrote:Executioners are different from Gladiators...
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@malakittens: I think you are missing the point? I'm saying it doesn't really matter what your role is--its neither town nor scum on its own. its not like you are a roleblocker (which I will autolynch depending on how deep the game is). But from my perspective it would make more sense for the scum team to have something with killing potential than it would for them to have a neighborizer.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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I'm back.
These pages are confusing to me.
I don't see why people are getting town vibes from the last bunch of High Ghato posts.
2)Scum doesn't buss other scum??? That's news.
3)It could be Ampersand-Ghato
4) "put herself out there" but she's still here. So obviously it was believable enough to warrant scum thinking "I can get away with this." Her counterclaim is null. It just seems like the scummiest claim for me.
5) not science also had a very town reaction to my friendly neighbor result, which is why I really don't see him as scum.
These pages are confusing to me.
I don't see why people are getting town vibes from the last bunch of High Ghato posts.
1) So? You don't have to lynch everyone if they're "easy"In post 2983, Medea the Alien wrote:I think everyone has done things that make no sense if they're scum.
Ghatokaca has passed on a lot of chances to get us lynched. I'm an easier lynch than Cabd, and I've been prominent enough that I've made us lynchable from Day One.
Ampersand led the lynch on Osseus.
You opted to lynch Osseus over Ghatokaca in combo with bazinga.
Mala counterclaimed a vig with a gladiator and put herself out there Day One.
notscience passed on the chance to eliminate/neutralize TT.
See what I mean?
Mala, what's your take on notscience's day talk comment?
--PA
2)Scum doesn't buss other scum??? That's news.
3)It could be Ampersand-Ghato
4) "put herself out there" but she's still here. So obviously it was believable enough to warrant scum thinking "I can get away with this." Her counterclaim is null. It just seems like the scummiest claim for me.
5) not science also had a very town reaction to my friendly neighbor result, which is why I really don't see him as scum.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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I'm not voting notscience.
I'm willing to agree with Mina on Ghato...but its going to be shitty if I end up in lylo with him.
This fucking game. I'm so lost right now...if only I could just lynch everyone but me.
I'm willing to agree with Mina on Ghato...but its going to be shitty if I end up in lylo with him.
This fucking game. I'm so lost right now...if only I could just lynch everyone but me.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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I'm really thinking malakittens is my best bet right now, but if anyone can prove to me why mala is town, or if mala can show why someone else is scum, i will change my mind.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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@Medea: well in my defense I was on trips for school two weekends in a row
@ghato: His reaction to my friendly neighbor status was so town it hurts.
@ghato: His reaction to my friendly neighbor status was so town it hurts.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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He did hide it. All he did was say I was town and defend me from the sidelines. Instead of suggesting that I had a power. He kept it quiet.In post 3049, Ghatokaca wrote:WhatIn post 3035, ToastyToast wrote:@Medea: well in my defense I was on trips for school two weekends in a row
@ghato: His reaction to my friendly neighbor status was so town it hurts.wouldscum do though? I mean it is not like he can hide it. He's got to pretend that he has some sort of investigation showing that you are town.
~ F-16
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You know, my original reads day one were osseus, ghato, and medea. Maybe its time I return to those reads.
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Alright. I don't care if you think this is stupid. But I'm confirmed town and I'm pretty sure I know what's going on. If I'm wrong, sorry town.
My two main scum reads still being alive.
My two scum reads voting my biggest town read.
That's really all I need.
Goodbye.
My two main scum reads still being alive.
My two scum reads voting my biggest town read.
That's really all I need.
Goodbye.
vote:medea
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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like you are obviously pissed, and I will enjoy my certain death. Sometimes you have to make a decision in this game, and if you do indeed flip town then ghato aint scum (and if he is well shit).
I'd say scum mala-notscience at that point.
I'd say scum mala-notscience at that point.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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dude get over yourself.In post 3065, Medea the Alien wrote:Although this reminds me of last time you didn't listen to me, in FE:A, where, oh yeah, you fucking hid behind me when I told you I'd get shot at.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Like seriously a main part of the reason I had a scum read on you was because you were so insistent that "omg meta from a game=always going to play in the same way." You took no time to look at how I played as a whole. You strike me as the kind of person who thinks personal experience outweighs facts.
Oh and guess what?
You were scummy this game. I thought you were town via neighborizer actions, but you didn't exactly make it easy for me to stick with that.
Before my death, I will speak in my rage...
@Amperand: don't play as a hydra again unless you can get your thoughts together
@Ghato: I think I probably read two of your posts. the rest made me fall asleep. writing concisely is of legitimate importance in this game.
@malakittens: I understand you had a lot of stuff to deal with.but like...I'm ending this day still not knowing anything about how you play.
@Medea: this game requires people to take chances. In both of these situations you think "omg how stupid grr," but do you seriously think I'm going to just sit and do nothing in a game? I go with my gut, stand by it, and yeah, sometimes its wrong. Other times it carries the side i'm on to victory. You need a lesson in humility if you think you can contribute your failures as a player to me. We're probably on the same level skill-wise.
@Mina: You are really good at this game. Its why I like playing with you.
@notscience: there's a reason I decided to use my friendly neighbor on you D1. scum or town, that has to count for something.
BYEEEE
Oh and guess what?
You were scummy this game. I thought you were town via neighborizer actions, but you didn't exactly make it easy for me to stick with that.
Before my death, I will speak in my rage...
@Amperand: don't play as a hydra again unless you can get your thoughts together
@Ghato: I think I probably read two of your posts. the rest made me fall asleep. writing concisely is of legitimate importance in this game.
@malakittens: I understand you had a lot of stuff to deal with.but like...I'm ending this day still not knowing anything about how you play.
@Medea: this game requires people to take chances. In both of these situations you think "omg how stupid grr," but do you seriously think I'm going to just sit and do nothing in a game? I go with my gut, stand by it, and yeah, sometimes its wrong. Other times it carries the side i'm on to victory. You need a lesson in humility if you think you can contribute your failures as a player to me. We're probably on the same level skill-wise.
@Mina: You are really good at this game. Its why I like playing with you.
@notscience: there's a reason I decided to use my friendly neighbor on you D1. scum or town, that has to count for something.
BYEEEE
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac
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Truth. Seriously my biggest regret the whole game. That is part of why I hammered Medea as well. I was like...my day one reads have been right before and maybe I've been straying from the path too much. But I thought ghato-medea would be scum together, and I think that was my biggest flaw.In post 3386, BROseidon wrote:pedit: had Toasty been around, he'd have hammered you guys, and then my vig on Mala would have landed night 1. Game would have been unwinnable for you guys at that point (I'd get to troll around, and you'd have only 1 mislynch b/c of my track shot).
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Also HUGE props to ghato for surviving that long after having tons of suspicion the first day (and really the entire game)
*applause*
*applause*
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Hey! I was confirmedIn post 3373, BROseidon wrote:The Hanzo/Aronis lynch was the one that cost town the game. That lynch shouldn't have ever happened; that slot was the most obvtown slot in the game other than chamber.
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Process of elimination for me....which I usually hate, I should've know better.
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