Thats not a reliable tell, shes had too long to get used to it!
Mini 1547 - Wicked Mafia (Game Over!)
Forum rules
In post 12, Mina wrote:HAHAHAHA, BEFORE YOU FUCKERS CAN DO IT!!!!
VOTE: Mina
I have a guilty on Mina! You should all lynch her.
Wait, are you actually scum? .
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Reading me isn't all that difficult. Most people can do it correctly by the end of day 1 .
Its a perfectly fair reason to vote for someone. Its not the strongest evidence in the world, but its page 2. I don't like how you just put words in my mouth and then belittled those words. That's disingenuous if not out right scummy.
Its a perfectly fair reason to vote for someone. Its not the strongest evidence in the world, but its page 2. I don't like how you just put words in my mouth and then belittled those words. That's disingenuous if not out right scummy.
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This is basically my play style? Also me knowing you hasn't had much effect on how I'm reading you here? Its not like what I'm saying can't be followed by the others.In post 56, Mina wrote:No one wants to read two people who know each other hyper-focus and drown the thread in pages and pages of nitpicky paranoid back-and-forths
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This question is really quite bad in retrospect, but, it could have just been an issue of focus. Also, not really a ninja of Mala.In post 27, Mina wrote:...um...why did you single out bazinga of all the hydras in the game (ninja'd by Mala)?
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Those are the names of the hydras.In post 118, Zdenek wrote:Which hydras?In post 115, chamber wrote:2 hydra games come to mind (flash and entanglement).
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Competing wagons between scum kind of suck? Its better to have scum/town competing wagons so you can actually learn things about those partaking.In post 112, Zdenek wrote:I don't recall you being obnoxiously literal in past games.
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I mean, yeah it was, but Mina's question was the more offensive in that regard? I even already pointed this out.In post 129, BROseidon wrote:Because it indicates you looking to be spoon fed an answer instead of trying to think about the motivation behind Hanzo's vote as either alignment.In post 82, Malakittens wrote:Why is the post bad, is it because you think I read too much into it? I get annoyed when people call out hydras in general and it's not like this game isn't full of hydras because it is. The vote looked lazy as fuck on Bert/Mollie.
It should have been obvious why Hanzo's vote went to Bazinga over the other hydras.
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I was talking to mollie and was asking if it was to bro >_>.In post 142, Malakittens wrote:He's talking to me if it's his last two posts you are referring too.
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Because I was dumb and read bro in a generic usage of the word. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=broIn post 151, bazinga wrote:I am not sure how you are confused since I addressed bro by name at the start of my post!In post 148, chamber wrote:I was talking to mollie and was asking if it was to bro >_>.In post 142, Malakittens wrote:He's talking to me if it's his last two posts you are referring too.
This is me actually being invested in a game notscience. IE: town me. You've only seen lazy town me before I'm guessing.
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In post 157, bazinga wrote:okay but you used the same word with the exact same spelling but were confused when I used it? that doesn't make sense
Are you actually being serious here?
I read things and process their meaning prior to writing responses, therefore wasn't thinking of the words but their processed meaning when writing what I wrote.
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I feel like I'm being trolled, so the former if you've been serious the whole time.In post 163, bazinga wrote:okay?
I mean I am having a hard time with wondering if this is a collision of worldviews or if you are scum.
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His meta is wrong, so yes. If you want someone to give meta on me ask CES?In post 171, bazinga wrote:Are you asking us not to use notscience's town meta of you??
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If you were patrick this might be meaningful.In post 286, Mina wrote:More stuff coming tonight, but chamber, I just think you should know that your read on me is embarrassingly bad right now.
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Like, its fair to think someone is scummy for not believing how they came to a read, or to find the way they are pushing a suspect scummy. The read itself is pretty null in most situations though. I think this would be a really silly lynch to try and chase as mafia!chamber because its not likely to pay any dividends until like day3, and by then I'd have CES on my ass if I were scum.In post 297, bazinga wrote:this is weird, cos people's reads can be every single bit indicative of their alignment. sometimes town are wrong. what is alignment indicative is if you observe the trajectory behind it and see how it does not match up. and I am observing yours and I am not following how you got there especially after your exchanges with her.In post 295, chamber wrote:I do.
If you can't separate peoples reads from their alignment, I don't have any good advice for you; Sometimes townies are wrong(like 50% of the time for me).
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What do I gain by lying about that ._. It just makes me look like an idiot (because I was one?)In post 352, bazinga wrote:I'm not doing the scumhunting oriented posts, but my posts are easy to tell apart from Mollie's save the early impersonating posts in RVS.In post 170, Hanzo_5 wrote:@Bazinga, It seems to me that your intent is to establish a read based on Chambers misinterpretation of the word bro and who it was aimed at. Is that your intent?
If the Bert head is going to do all of the scumhunting oriented posts could you two please start signing your posts.
I'm not Mollie, but this doesn't pass any smell test! Far-fetched and unreasonable!In post 152, chamber wrote:Because I was dumb and read bro in a generic usage of the word. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro
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Honestly I hadn't made any ignoring you connection. I think the similarities lie elsewhere. I'm likely ignoring you now (as you claim I did then) because interacting with you doesn't seem like it would yield much information.In post 312, Malakittens wrote:Why did you have to make my gut ping due to this. I really just hope you aren't faking this now.
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It was more a 'you are terribly misapplying my meta' statement. When someones coming at you with meta how do you expect to defend yourself without self metaing?In post 398, pirate mollie wrote:and yet gives a self meta argument in the very next post
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You don't know what a chainsaw defense is if that's what you are implying. I'm not attacking you, I'm calling your point dumb, cause it is.In post 403, bazinga wrote:In post 400, chamber wrote:It was more a 'you are terribly misapplying my meta' statement. When someones coming at you with meta how do you expect to defend yourself without self metaing?In post 398, pirate mollie wrote:and yet gives a self meta argument in the very next post
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I'd say that I'm probably motivated in about half of my town games, and approximately 0 of my scum games. Though I can often fake it as scum for a day or 2 before just completely getting buried in 'fuck, I'm scum' apathy.In post 456, ToastyToast wrote:Are you ever lazy scum?
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If I felt like explaining I would have. Asking me about it, especially after someone else has and I blew them off, is just going to annoy me not get me to answer.In post 521, Malakittens wrote:How about we explain the naked vote on them?
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What needs explaining from CES there, Mina?
I don't feel like I was being coy. I'm scum reading that slot. Its day 1 though and I've been worse at reading CES more recently and its a hydra so who the fuck knows how accurate I am. I'm not going to lynch him day1, I'll let him night kill me and then not worry about it.
For what its worth though, I found Fenchurch's post pretty damning. She talked about a conversation with him that doesn't feel like it happened based on the result?
I don't feel like I was being coy. I'm scum reading that slot. Its day 1 though and I've been worse at reading CES more recently and its a hydra so who the fuck knows how accurate I am. I'm not going to lynch him day1, I'll let him night kill me and then not worry about it.
For what its worth though, I found Fenchurch's post pretty damning. She talked about a conversation with him that doesn't feel like it happened based on the result?
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Like this. Who the fuck cares? Its transparent but that's because its mafia theory not game relevant.In post 537, Ghatokaca wrote:And ToastyToast, meta is an incredibly useful tool to scumhunt with. It gives you a baseline on what to expect from someone, what their town and scum play is like, how react to pressure, how they scumhunt, and what their activity is like as both affiliations. Most non-meta reads that people develop tend to have too many non-alignment indicative tells that are actually playstyle-based as opposed to affiliation based. A lot of common "scumtells" that people tend to use fall under the same category. Meta can be used incorrectly but that only applies to people who don't know how to use meta. Nearly all of the time except once that I've used an extensive meta-dive to develop a read on a player, I've been right. It can be invaluable if you know how to use it.
~ F-16
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Is Mollie especially good at reading nacho? If so, how good, what sample size?In post 560, notscience wrote:Plus if it doesn't have the mollie seal of approval it's not worth my time
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I asked notscience over you for a reason. I don't trust your ability to self evaluate accurately. (nothing personal, I think the same of nearly everyone in this game).In post 568, bazinga wrote:first i find this an interesting thing for you to be asking cos I wonder how much stock and what you plan to do with the infIn post 561, chamber wrote:Is Mollie especially good at reading nacho? If so, how good, what sample size?In post 560, notscience wrote:Plus if it doesn't have the mollie seal of approval it's not worth my time
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That was the issue. Or rather it was at least close to it. I know I have a strong impression of thinking you'd explicitly talk about vote placement. Its not something you'd just leave undressed to the point that she would think a plain UNVOTE was ok with you. But a lot of communication between us is implicit, and I'm not entirely sure you actually explicitly talked about it as much as I remember, or if it is just an impression from implicit communication. But then I also wonder why you and Fenchurch can't communicate implicitly on a similar or higher level.In post 609, Ampersand wrote:Fenchurch's take on it in #543 words it more accurately than I'd bother with, probably. I don't really get what your problem with it is supposed to be if that post didn't solve it or why you think Fenchurchscum would even make up a conversation with me?
I don't think shes making up the conversation out of nowhere, I just think she was referencing a scum!facsimile of the same conversation. One where you keeping your vote where it is isn't as odd from her POV from your POV.
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Mina's reaction is still the worse of the two.In post 616, BROseidon wrote:Hanzo posts an RVS vote about hating hydras on your slot.In post 614, bazinga wrote:Really? Please go on, cos I think I missed this and now I'm curious
Mala flips out about it to an unreasonable extreme. Why would she freak out about an RVS vote that much?
Because something in it subconsciously made her nervous is the best answer I can come up with.
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Go reread the exchange you are talking about, all of the posts around it too. Then come back and try and tell me this question makes sense.In post 621, BROseidon wrote:3) Can you come up with a better reason for Mala's freakout, then? Like, bazinga is very town, but Mala's response is still out of place. Hence my line of reasoning. Every other hydra not being in my townreads further supports this (and other people generally being on the same wavelength indicates that I'm not confbiasing).
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A little doubt's a good thing .In post 624, Mina wrote:chamber, can you ACTUALLY explain the cryptic comment about Hanzo's vote on Mala, so I can completely clear all doubt about you from my mind?
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Who were you actually worried would say this? Why were you worried they would say this? Does anyone think changing reads is a scum tell? Doing it convincingly is a town tell. So confused.In post 668, bazinga wrote:also before anybody goes ARRRRRGGGGHHHH YOU ARE CHANGING YOUR READS YOU MUST BE SCUM YOU ARE BEING INCONSISTENT ARRRRRGGGHHH YOU BACKPEDALING ARRRRRGGGHHHH YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF ARRRRGGHHH!!!!
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I didn't say it made sense to you as scum-play. I said it would be easier for CES to think it made sense to you.In post 654, Ampersand wrote:But if the vote made implicit (or explicit) sense to me as scum-play, why would I have made an unvote? Or assume that it would be okay for me to post about town-reading Mina?
Town motivations tend to be a lot clearer and straightforward than scum ones. So I think its a lot easier for the miscommunication to have happened on the scum side of things. Honestly CES just saying he didn't expect you to post at all is the best town answer to my issue. I'm just not sure how much I believe that to be true.
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I haven't seen her as scum in any finished games.
I don't like having town reads early? (which is something CES hinted at earlier) Because I don't believe in town tells that strongly, town is just an absence of scum, so you need to keep it up over a prolonged period before I find it believable?
I'd rather not think anyone is incapable of anything. Her likely being less out going/confident as scum doesn't mean shes incapable of ever being confident/outgoing as scum. I'm pretty incapable of keeping up confidence as scum, yet I can still fake it for short periods.
You seeming like you had meta on her but not wanting to come out and claim that bothered me. Mala pregame mentioning her meta to you was a plausible source of it that you'd want to hide?
I don't like having town reads early? (which is something CES hinted at earlier) Because I don't believe in town tells that strongly, town is just an absence of scum, so you need to keep it up over a prolonged period before I find it believable?
I'd rather not think anyone is incapable of anything. Her likely being less out going/confident as scum doesn't mean shes incapable of ever being confident/outgoing as scum. I'm pretty incapable of keeping up confidence as scum, yet I can still fake it for short periods.
You seeming like you had meta on her but not wanting to come out and claim that bothered me. Mala pregame mentioning her meta to you was a plausible source of it that you'd want to hide?
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I've cared about nuance, you may think of them as irrelevant nuances, and thus that I'm nitpicking, but what better a place to catch someone than in details they write off?In post 738, bazinga wrote:but you have been nitpicky sometimes
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For now at least. A lot of the content since my last post is fairly dense, I've been reading along but it takes a while to process past the surface level, also I just don't agree with a lot of your conclusions and its hard to be constructive beyond just saying that.In post 815, Mina wrote:That's the most constructive thing you have to add on this page, chamber?
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As a rule I try not to do this in player lists I respect, unless I've very confident of my read. Use your own reads.In post 817, Mina wrote:I'd actually appreciate being persuaded one way or another
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Can you explain why this made you :headdesk: for me?In post 779, Ghatokaca wrote:"town is just an absence of scum" in 735 which literally made me headdesk and want to yell at my computer screen.
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Eh, I feel compelled to tell you that your approach is fundamentally flawed, but I'm too lazy to argue it. Not an interesting response regardless.In post 859, Ghatokaca wrote:Because the primary basis of my scumhunting is POE. I couldn't disagree more with your statement. I spend much more time focussing on finding town, and then narrowing down the pool to possible scum.
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Did I miss him answering this when I was skimming?In post 255, ToastyToast wrote:Why unvote me if you weren't going to move your vote to someone else?In post 63, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Don't like Toasty right now, look at all those scummy posts
Unvote
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You didn't answer my question.In post 865, bazinga wrote:mebbe next time you might want to clarify who's answers you will find acceptable?
I wasn't asking what people thought, it was a combination of a statement of incredulity that someone could get a read from his content this game + a question to explain where such reads were coming from because I just don't see it.
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In post 862, chamber wrote:Did I miss him answering this when I was skimming?In post 255, ToastyToast wrote:Why unvote me if you weren't going to move your vote to someone else?In post 63, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Don't like Toasty right now, look at all those scummy posts
Unvote
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Is this a statement agreeing with my assessment of those pages or one asking me to start posting? I can't tell from context because both confuse me.In post 901, bazinga wrote:join the club, buddy
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He may be scum. His posts to me are mostly unreadable walls of meh, so I'll abstain for now.In post 906, Ampersand wrote:Chamb, you should join the Poseidonwagon.
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I read this and I wonder, how did Ghatokaca choose the order of his research.In post 906, Ampersand wrote:Yeah, that was the accusation he was responding to. I know the Nachohydra posts a lot but it's this kind of nonsense with people just refusing to read what's right in front of them that's driving the wagon.In post 895, BROseidon wrote:So you put the least effort in trying to get a read in one of the largest wagons?In post 888, Ghatokaca wrote:I'll admit my BRO read was probably the one I put in the least amount of effort. It was the last read I was doing while being asked for my reads list and I didn't spend as much time on it as the others. I spend more time trying to consolidate townreads as opposed to making cases on scumreads because it is more important for me to get my POE right and not townread scum. I think it is better to have strong townreads and a pile of potentially interchangeable null/scumreads than it is to nail down one or two very strong scumreads. Lynching from outside the strong town pool makes a lot more sense.
wat.
Chamb, you should join the Poseidonwagon.
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In post 926, BROseidon wrote:In post 906, Ampersand wrote:Yeah, that was the accusation he was responding to. I know the Nachohydra posts a lot but it's this kind of nonsense with people just refusing to read what's right in front of them that's driving the wagon.In post 895, BROseidon wrote:So you put the least effort in trying to get a read in one of the largest wagons?In post 888, Ghatokaca wrote:I'll admit my BRO read was probably the one I put in the least amount of effort. It was the last read I was doing while being asked for my reads list and I didn't spend as much time on it as the others. I spend more time trying to consolidate townreads as opposed to making cases on scumreads because it is more important for me to get my POE right and not townread scum. I think it is better to have strong townreads and a pile of potentially interchangeable null/scumreads than it is to nail down one or two very strong scumreads. Lynching from outside the strong town pool makes a lot more sense.
wat.
Chamb, you should join the Poseidonwagon.
I'm afraid its you that missed his point, not the other way around. His post was accusing you of only using rhetoric and of making no attempt to meaningfully understand their pov. Rhetoric has a very limited place in mafia games from town.In post 927, BROseidon wrote:Ambersand, are both of you scum, or just terrible at understanding rhetoric?
You seem to have missed some of my point aswell. My question is a good one that I want answered, no doubt, but why weren't you able to ask such a critical question yourself? Instead we only get rhetoric. It really does suggest a lack of thought.In post 928, BROseidon wrote:This is goodposting.In post 909, chamber wrote:I read this and I wonder, how did Ghatokaca choose the order of his research.In post 906, Ampersand wrote:Yeah, that was the accusation he was responding to. I know the Nachohydra posts a lot but it's this kind of nonsense with people just refusing to read what's right in front of them that's driving the wagon.In post 895, BROseidon wrote:So you put the least effort in trying to get a read in one of the largest wagons?In post 888, Ghatokaca wrote:I'll admit my BRO read was probably the one I put in the least amount of effort. It was the last read I was doing while being asked for my reads list and I didn't spend as much time on it as the others. I spend more time trying to consolidate townreads as opposed to making cases on scumreads because it is more important for me to get my POE right and not townread scum. I think it is better to have strong townreads and a pile of potentially interchangeable null/scumreads than it is to nail down one or two very strong scumreads. Lynching from outside the strong town pool makes a lot more sense.
wat.
Chamb, you should join the Poseidonwagon.
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Deadline is in a little over a day if you missed that? So that's not happening. You are just going to get lynched. Claim while you are around, maybe that saves you.In post 939, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:Seriously guys? How about you give me (Bone) a chance to finish with my RL stuff and get into this game again? We're not 'lurking' cause we're scum, we're 'lurking' because of some issues I have had over the past week or so. Last week was hell for me, but I'll be better after today. Don't be stupid and let scum trick you into a "compromise" lynch on a obvious town player who fell off the face of the earth for awhile. What information to you get when we flip town? You will get nothing, because this is a lazy scum-led lynch. You should be looking at Ghakota and shit.
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I'm a big fan of hiding the 'trajectory' behind questions. Perhaps one of the initial supporters of it on this site. But there is a time and place for it, a question that damning hardly needs to be hidden.
And you label it as rhetoric here.In post 927, BROseidon wrote:Ambersand, are both of you scum, or just terrible at understanding rhetoric?
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Go fuck yourself.In post 970, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:oh hey look at that shit chamber wants to be town today
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Who are the sheep?In post 1039, Medea the Alien wrote:And look at how the Ghatokaca wagon grew
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Even just them nightkilling you means that your kill deprives us a day and lynch.In post 1215, BROseidon wrote:If scum have a RB or redirect, yeah :/In post 1208, chamber wrote:If bro lives, and is a vig, he basically can't shoot anyway because of how he claimed it. Annoying.
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the choice is pretty clearly between these two so, choose.In post 1221, Tammy wrote:ghatokaca (5) - Osseus pseudotripodis, Broseidon, Hanzo_5, chamber, zdenek
Broseidon (5) a Ampersand, malakittens, bazinga, Medea the alien, notsicence
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You can have a clear answer on Day 3.In post 1306, Mina wrote:You said you were scumreading him, but hedged a lot on it. I wanted a clear should-I-sheep-you-blindly answer.
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How much of this is your role and how much is your reads?In post 1321, Malakittens wrote:Guys seriously,
someone hammer BRO because he's scum.
I don't see F-16/Nacho being scum at this point, I really don't.
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Hes incapable of being angry as mafia in this situation? It would take an ego but he has one.In post 1322, Mina wrote:his rage at the town looks quite real
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Like, its pretty easy to lash out against THIS.In post 1324, notscience wrote:Mala noone's going to bother because molliebert's already promised to hammer nacho16 at deadline.
Then mollie dies tonight and a BRO wagon never reforms while he coasts to endgame to win
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How did you not?In post 1336, BROseidon wrote:How the fuck did you get to this?In post 1334, chamber wrote:She's claiming PGO.
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Why? And how is choosing their 3rd read sheeping the fuck out of them?In post 1385, bazinga wrote:we talked last night and intend to sheep the shit out of Bro
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The order changed for his final list, but I'm pretty sure he didn't have mala as
town
. The point stays the same even if only Ampersand is in front of medea.Taking a break from the site.
The why matters more. Also his updated ordering was different, which is the one you referenced in your post.In post 1392, bazinga wrote:Chamber:
In post 1299, BROseidon wrote:Also final reads list in case someone decides that hammering me is a good idea:
Shining paragon of town:
chamber
zdenek
town, but not so shiny:
Hanzo
bazinga
mina
town by PoE:
Toasty
Bones
town but should probably reconsider their life decisions:
ns
less scum:
Ghato
Mala
More scum:
Ambersand
Medea
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You aren't thinking right. Its not a matter of whether it actually ccs a vig, its a matter of whether it feels like it does and is thus a plausible counterclaim when you are panicking and not thinking clearly at deadline. I would say it is. Especially if you are already thinking of it like a dayvig in terms of use.In post 1463, bazinga wrote:^Yep, Mina's right. This doesn't make sense.
Also, I don't understand how Chamber can think that CCing it yesterday makes sense given that Mala was operating under the assumption that Bro was claiming a Vig (not JOAT). Please explain
It counterclaims a vig harder than it counterclaims a JOAT, I think you mixed up what I meant earlier.
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We will just beat you, no need to watch.In post 1485, bazinga wrote:Oh. I see.
I'm getting up for the USA vs. CAN hockey game, but that's in almost 7 hours. Aww man that loss yesterday for the USA was gut-wrenching. 2 goal lead squandered in the last 3 mins, and with an open goal they hit the post lol
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The kill mostly. But the flow of yesterdays end of day wagons was also just... off.In post 1499, Malakittens wrote:If I asked why chamber would you answer it? Super pretty pls
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I don't think a team with scum nacho makes that kill? I don't see whats hard to explain about that. For instance, he could have killed me, and then blamed it on CES meta.In post 1516, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote:@ Chamber - Elaborate why you've dropped Ghat from your scum list? What does the kill have to do with their alignment?
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Thats me playing mafia.In post 1519, bazinga wrote:he is focusing on peripheral things and is being obtuse
You don't know what myIn post 1519, bazinga wrote:he just feels wrong
right
is then.Taking a break from the site.
Why didn't you find the argument compelling at the time?In post 1552, Malakittens wrote:Actually, French, Mina did comment about Elphaba's claim that it matched flavor decently well.
I can quote the exact post if need be.
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Not going to lie, I skimmed portions of your post, do you care to be more specific about what I see if you referenced it previously?In post 1557, Medea the Alien wrote:You see it as well, then.
Her wagon might actually plausibly compete with yours, and I'd rather sit back with a useless vote and see how that all plays out first.In post 1557, Medea the Alien wrote:And here I was about to make your day with a Mina wagon. I'd ask you to explain but you probably won't really.
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Its curious to me that you wouldn't consider the possibility of a town roleblocker, given that from your POV you are a town!neighbourizer and mala is a town!gladiator iyo, roleblocker seems to go along side them in terms of roles that can be town or scum/are often seen on or make more sense on, scum.
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Given the nature of the play as I understand it (the wicked witch being the main character), it seemed like it could be thematically playful to give the town a bunch of scum abilities?In post 1567, Medea the Alien wrote:That said, I'm assuming it's scum but it ~technically~ could be town? Like I don't see why one or two people having roles that are alignment neutral suddenly makes a more scumfriendly role likely to be town? It's possible as I said, but not likely.
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Most of their actions are autonomous and don't need to be claimed, making roleblocking them effectively quite hard? Roleblockers are typically in set ups to stop information roles.In post 1569, Medea the Alien wrote:I'm not sure of the count of PRs in the setup. I only know my own role, and what is flipped and claimed. I haven't played under Tammy before, so I'm not sure how power heavy she likes her games. Explain why a RB interacts poorly with a JOAT?In post 1566, chamber wrote:How many town power roles do you expect to be on the towns side? A roleblocker can't effect mala and interacts quite poorly with a JOAT, and doesn't effect you at all apparently. How many people are you expecting it to work on that are left?
I do guess we don't know his actual set of abilities (other than presumably a vig) so if he had multiple information options (tracker + cop or etc) it becomes less strange.
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She has very little modding experience, only and open on here, not much else where.In post 1571, Medea the Alien wrote:I read the book several years ago, but I haven't seen the play itself. Your theory is possible, I guess? Once again, has anyone here played under tammy on MS or her home site in themes?In post 1568, chamber wrote:Given the nature of the play as I understand it (the wicked witch being the main character), it seemed like it could be thematically playful to give the town a bunch of scum abilities?In post 1567, Medea the Alien wrote:That said, I'm assuming it's scum but it ~technically~ could be town? Like I don't see why one or two people having roles that are alignment neutral suddenly makes a more scumfriendly role likely to be town? It's possible as I said, but not likely.
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'scum' abilties, as in ones that could be on town but are also often seen on scum (neighbourizer, gladiator, roleblocker, tracker, etc).
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I do still want this answered Ghatokaca (unless I missed it at some point, feel free to point it out if I did).In post 909, chamber wrote:I read this and I wonder, how did Ghatokaca choose the order of his research.In post 906, Ampersand wrote:Yeah, that was the accusation he was responding to. I know the Nachohydra posts a lot but it's this kind of nonsense with people just refusing to read what's right in front of them that's driving the wagon.In post 895, BROseidon wrote:So you put the least effort in trying to get a read in one of the largest wagons?In post 888, Ghatokaca wrote:I'll admit my BRO read was probably the one I put in the least amount of effort. It was the last read I was doing while being asked for my reads list and I didn't spend as much time on it as the others. I spend more time trying to consolidate townreads as opposed to making cases on scumreads because it is more important for me to get my POE right and not townread scum. I think it is better to have strong townreads and a pile of potentially interchangeable null/scumreads than it is to nail down one or two very strong scumreads. Lynching from outside the strong town pool makes a lot more sense.
wat.
Chamb, you should join the Poseidonwagon.
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I mean, you are wrong. Scum do sometimes defend each other. But in this instance if anything I'm implicitly supporting your position with my actions, so I have no idea wtf you are talking about? If I thought you were scumbuddies with nacho because you lynched bro over him yesterday at deadline, don't you think I'd just be lynching nacho?!?In post 1602, bazinga wrote:I am especially surprised at chamber
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I think that this is likely a difference in the way we approach the game (mine is right for what its worth). I don't see any value in looking for town reads because everyone in the game has the motivation to look town. This means that most content isn't noteworthy because scum are typically not going to consistently fuck up. Its about finding the moments when they have.In post 1615, bazinga wrote:you are cherry picking
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hmmIn post 1656, Ampersand wrote:e's pretty much a walking surface level analyzer. I hope that makes him scum but I'm not convinced and it also doesn't really seem like a priority.
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It will likely drive you less crazy when I'm actually bothering to explain myself, which I do in hydras.
Which is why I develop questions based on the fuckups. Its not like I condemn all of them ultimately, I drop more than I keep pursuing.
The kill isn't impossible but its incredibly lazy. Ghatoka themselves have been pretty distracted, so them making a surface level kill is believable, but they have 2 buddies too presumably. Ghatoka flipping scum would probably make me go back and look harder at (mala/hanzo/toasty). Maybe Ampersand too because of the VLA, if it was a last minute choice mostly by the third member.
Which is why I develop questions based on the fuckups. Its not like I condemn all of them ultimately, I drop more than I keep pursuing.
The kill isn't impossible but its incredibly lazy. Ghatoka themselves have been pretty distracted, so them making a surface level kill is believable, but they have 2 buddies too presumably. Ghatoka flipping scum would probably make me go back and look harder at (mala/hanzo/toasty). Maybe Ampersand too because of the VLA, if it was a last minute choice mostly by the third member.
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You read her list backwards.In post 1669, notscience wrote:Mina talk to me about why you think Hanzo's scum
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I wasn't paying attention to my skype contact list during that time window? I was almost entirely focused on the game. I did exchange a few words with mala, but from the recent tab, not the contacts tab.In post 1676, bazinga wrote:why not?
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There was a mollie post I was going to reply to when the site died, I'll attempt to still do my best based off memory:
I don't think you are stupid. I do think I'm smarter than you (if I'm honest with myself I likely don't have enough evidence to definitively make that claim), and that may seep into my posts at times. I also think I'm better at mafia than you, and your seeming arrogance about your mafia ability likely makes me confrontational because I don't back down. But mostly I just think you are playing in like 20 games while I'm playing in only this 1, and because of that I think you are reading this game at an extremely surface level compared to me. This is evidenced by the fact that I think me CES and mina are the only ones playing this game at a reasonable depth, and we are also the ones you singled out.
I haven't given a clear scum or town on CES, like I haven't given a clear scum or town on anyone, because my reads are more nuanced than that. If you want the overall way I'm leaning on him, its scum, I've made that pretty clear at every point that I've been asked about it. But there is more depth to it than that. Hes made a bunch of odd mechanical choices for scum!CES; He didn't NK me, this would be the first time since goofbash where he hasn't as scum, he doggedly stayed on a town wagon, I expect CES to be more fluid with his vote as either alignment, if he was being dogged as mafia though I'd almost surely expect them to flip scum, not town. I called him out as scum very early though, so these could be measures taken with that in mind. Not making actions to save himself in a game where he feels hes already damned.
I remember there being a third point, but not what it was atm.
I don't think you are stupid. I do think I'm smarter than you (if I'm honest with myself I likely don't have enough evidence to definitively make that claim), and that may seep into my posts at times. I also think I'm better at mafia than you, and your seeming arrogance about your mafia ability likely makes me confrontational because I don't back down. But mostly I just think you are playing in like 20 games while I'm playing in only this 1, and because of that I think you are reading this game at an extremely surface level compared to me. This is evidenced by the fact that I think me CES and mina are the only ones playing this game at a reasonable depth, and we are also the ones you singled out.
I haven't given a clear scum or town on CES, like I haven't given a clear scum or town on anyone, because my reads are more nuanced than that. If you want the overall way I'm leaning on him, its scum, I've made that pretty clear at every point that I've been asked about it. But there is more depth to it than that. Hes made a bunch of odd mechanical choices for scum!CES; He didn't NK me, this would be the first time since goofbash where he hasn't as scum, he doggedly stayed on a town wagon, I expect CES to be more fluid with his vote as either alignment, if he was being dogged as mafia though I'd almost surely expect them to flip scum, not town. I called him out as scum very early though, so these could be measures taken with that in mind. Not making actions to save himself in a game where he feels hes already damned.
I remember there being a third point, but not what it was atm.
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You have the causation wrong. I like them, in part, because they play the game at a reasonable depth. There are others in this game that I like (mala, nacho, UT) that I wouldn't claim are currently playing at a good depth.In post 1701, bazinga wrote:I really don't understand the belief that you and the people you consider to be playing the game have a more in depth grasp of what is going on since I am not sure of your criteria? on a surface level it seems to be based on people you like.
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No? There are other people I find scummy. Other people who I'm less sure I'll be able to read more accurately given more time. I'm choosing to pursue them instead.In post 1708, bazinga wrote:then I guess your plan is to sit around and twiddle your thumbs until dl and let some1 else push a lynch through that way you can tell them how much smarter and better at mafia you are? o-kay!
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It's too high, I'd kill myself if I tried to get off now, can only go up!In post 1710, bazinga wrote:methinks it's about time chamber gets down off his high horse
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In deleted posts there was an exchange that went something like:In post 1716, ToastyToast wrote:why is this bazina/chambers exchange about who's smarter at all relevant?
them: imply I'm scum because I lack town motivation
me: say they aren't that dumb
them: say they thought I thought they were that dumb (implying disingenuity on my part)
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I think 'town'blocs promote lazy poe.In post 1719, notscience wrote:Chamber, why didn't you want to be in my townbloc?
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"I've sorted this group over here as town so now I'm just going to mindlessly lynch from the remaining pool cause we have enough mislynches!"
In my world view town reads are an absence of scum acts. Something I've said previously. This means that town reads should always be in question. It shouldn't be that difficult for a town read to become a scum one if they fuck up, but townblocs promote the idea that you should stop thinking about the members alignment all together.
In my world view town reads are an absence of scum acts. Something I've said previously. This means that town reads should always be in question. It shouldn't be that difficult for a town read to become a scum one if they fuck up, but townblocs promote the idea that you should stop thinking about the members alignment all together.
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1 way or another 1 of us is leaving the game, she doesn't need to waste effort like that.
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What would it take to make you seriously consider her today?In post 1741, Osseus pseudotripodis wrote: Bazinga frustrates me with how all over the place the slot is, but last I checked we agreed on some key reads (Ghat, Medea), and knowing Mollie if they were scum I expect them to put more effort into discrediting other player's and their reads. Their tendency to discredit other philosophies (re: Chamber ontownscumblocs) gives me pause, but that effort this game has been consistent and is more likely to be indicative of personal preference rather than alignment at this point. Town or scum, your philosophies will guide how you act.
How about me confirming that Medea almost surely did neighbourize Ghat (making the Ghat/Medea pair highly unlikely)?
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