If you think I was happy about it you are dead wrong! The reasons were:In post 1965, bazinga wrote:and you are agreeing with your partner to vote Medea over people in your lowest collective tier because....
1. CES is stubborn and tends to have conviction in his reads
2. I had less certainty in the accuracy of my own; especially prior to that post, when I wasn't even fully caught up with the game. (And now that I am, I feel more comfortable with CES' reads anyway.)
But pretty much since the start of Day 2, I was saying ‘I’m not sure Medea is scum’ or ‘I’m not happy with us voting Medea’, and mostly Wester would just look at me with slightly sad eyebrows, not saying anything, and I don’t actually know what that look meant or what he was thinking but I imagine it was something like: ‘I don’t have an answer for you because I think that she is scum and you’re wrong, I don’t want to unvote her, but I don’t like that you’re unhappy about it so I can’t see how to resolve this’. And it made it impossible for me to participate, because if I posted any of my thoughts it would de-value our vote, so I was feeling pretty aggravated and disenfranchised.
CES did offer on a couple of occasions to switch to Toasty or Osseus, but he clearly didn't believe either of them was a better vote, and I wasn't prepared to take sole responsibility should I turn out to be wrong.
(And I actually half-thought that CES had switched to Osseus in #1951; but that’s irrelevant now anyway.)
Again, I think your criticism ultimately stems from me being often getting left behind in the game, and I’ve been entirely open about my reasons for this. Only on Day 2 this is already twice as long as any completed game I've played; and most of the posts come in the middle of the night for me, so it's a pretty sharp change compared with the small UK-based games that I’ve been in more recently. We chose to hydra because I like to skimread games that CES is in and often want to make comments, and this is the only way I can legally do that. But actually playing the game is a bit more involved than I was prepared for…
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But that's not us, that's just me. After I put my thoughts in order in that post, I commented to CES that I still really only had 3 town reads, and everyone else as null or scummy And that's another reason why I've been mostly happy to defer to CES for our vote.In post 1960, notscience wrote:reminds me the goodnight hydra in 1520, who basically used their 2 heads so they could have more scumreads/excuse votes on people in the future
Also I feel more like you are town when you give the reasons for your reads.
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Yesterday I re-read the end of Day 1, and skimmed one of F-16's scum games, and came out thinking Ghato could be scum. Their main towntell was the effort they put into giving reads when they were at L-1, but since it helped prevent them from getting lynched it could be a plausible scum strategy.
Plus there was Zdenek's read on them:
I wish I'd asked chamber why he thought Ghato-scum wouldn't have made the Zdenek night kill, because to me it seems like it'd be pretty sensible play for them if they did.In post 1185, Zdenek wrote:I just looked through a bunch of [F-16's] games. When he's scum he fakes thoughtfulness, and that's what he's done this game.
But then Ghato's recent posts like...
This seems really sincere, and I don't think that this is a play that scum would have chosen to make, so I'm also inclined to think Ghato are probably town, after all.In post 1983, Ghatokaca wrote:I thought scum-you would be able to sneak out of it and make me look bad in the process . . . I asked Nacho for tips on how to get charismatic scum players lynched and he said that all that was needed was conviction
And this also seems honest, plus reasonable advice to me. I think the scum are generally more likely to be among the players that nobody has a strong town-read on.In post 1983, Ghatokaca wrote:I usually ended up regretting not reaching out to people who had similar suspect lists to mine and when we both ended up town, I felt like if only I had reached out and stopped, everything could have been so much better.
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a) Even if all 3 scum were on the BRO wagon (which is a possibility), there were still 4 townies there too, so several players (myself included, by proxy) know that there were legitimate reasons to believe that BRO was likely scum.In post 1981, ToastyToast wrote:Because my votes were totally the scummiest. And not that lovely BRO wagon.
b) There was a fair chance that the lynch could have swung to Ghato instead of BRO, and as mollie already pointed out, scumteams generally try to spread their votes a bit to prevent all being caught in the ‘wrong’ place - especially if Ghato is scum.
I do think it's a bit unlikely that Toasty and Osseus are scum together, since they're both pushing the same weak argument about the BRO-wagon, and that seems an unlikely move for scumbuddies to make. To be honest I think I find Toasty more scummy than Osseus, but I’d like to re-read both.
Hahaha - my reads have all been so variable that I just assumed this was true – but when I went back through my posts so that I could answer you correctly, I could't find anywhere that I’ve called Hanzo townish. Am I missing it? I said I thought he was scum in #237, #542, #653. #726. It was CES who said he was 'pretty darn town' in #1874.In post 1973, Mina wrote:That said, Fenchurch, what changed between the last time you called Hanzo townish and the big reads list?
I did think Hanzo was town yesterday but now I re-read I can’t remember why so to be honest I’m back to scummy on him again! E.g. I don’t like how he wants to lynch Ghato because ‘Ghato is a VT and we have a mislynch to use to let’s use it’ (#1853).
It's all on my wiki; but my forum scum games have been Open 316: Lovers, Open 318: Nomination Mafia, and Mini 1256: Marius & Sulla.In post 1973, Mina wrote:Also, when were your most recent scum games on the forum?
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I've remembered why I think the claims are slightly less likely to be scum. Because if the scum claim power roles - even power roles that they truly have – then there's more of a chance for them to get caught, if their claims create an implausible conflict with another town power. I guess maybe that's not very likely with a neighbouriser... I'm not sure.
My scum/null pool is currently:
Mostly town-ish: Mina, chamber, bazinga, Ghato, notsci
Possible scum: Medea, Mala, Hanzo
Would most like to lynch: Osseus or Toasty
- Fenchurch