Mini 1552 - Paranoia [GAME OVER]
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i'm town
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i think
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Vote: Empking
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i'm town, though
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Vote: GreyICE
everything greyice is writing looks like formal, going-through-the-motions stuff and none of it looks like town trying to figure shit out
also omgus
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-2 actually
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but i'm obvtown
why would i want to lynch obvtown
only scum want to lynch obvtown
why would i want to lynch obvtown
only scum want to lynch obvtown
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you probably wouldn't be reading me as scum if i actually were scumlld wrote:This guy is supposed to be good at scum? Please.
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yes, you're clearly an amazing player
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i honestly don't care. if you're dumb enough to lynch me here, then this is a game i'd rather not be in anywayshos wrote:So you've been put at L-2 with no reason and then at L-1 with no reason and you're just going to ignore it entirely and hope nobody gives a shit?
there is nothing to analyse with my wagon since nobody has given a reason for their vote <- one of them has been there since RVS, two of them came after my initial post, your vote is either a poorly designed reaction test or i dunno maybe you actually think something i've done is scummy in which case you're retarded, and NS is being NS
so if i did end up getting lynched, i would laugh it off and forget about this game ever happening
that's actually not what i was saying at all - as it is, nothing i've done is "shitty" or "scummy"greyice wrote:"I only play shitty and scummy if I'm town!"
i put a vote down on empking late night before i went to sleep without having read the thread. you voted me for it and you're harping on about it being scummy. so tell me what you think the scum motivation for doing that is
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why do you think my alignment would determine how i react to it?kovara wrote:I think if he were a good guy, he would react alot more than he is now
what do you call content?greyice wrote:That's what he calls content
because outside of your vote on me and "whining that i'm scum", your total contributions to the thread are:
Spoiler:
the questions you were asking were either very standard, very non-confrontational ways of pretending you were producing content (like your first post) or had nothing to do with scum hunting (like every other post)
if only i could learn to produce something on your level, i'd be obvtown, right?
i should take notes
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first, if you think this is scummy, then why are you solely attacking me for it? why not question, say, privatei or NS for what they've done so far? or pressure them in any way for the manner in which they've approached the game so far?greyice wrote:You want the scum motivation for avoiding anything happening in the town, and voting nonplayers who cannot be offended or lynch you
Avoid taking stances
And otherwise do nothing to make any waves?
second, you're not explaining the scum motivation there - if anything, those are reasons why i'd avoid doing that if i actually were scum. and no, this isn't wifom; it's common sense.
third, you're taking one post i made without having read the thread (my vote on empking) and making a big deal out of it for reasons that don't make a lot of sense and i don't think you're bad enough to really believe i'm scum because of it. and this is why you're scum.
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i think the longer this drags out, the worse you're going to look
which is why you keep going on and on about me being scum and hoping more dumbasses like shos and NS sheep you onto a quick lynch
which is why you keep going on and on about me being scum and hoping more dumbasses like shos and NS sheep you onto a quick lynch
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actually i was asking why, if you legitimately think action X is scummy, you are talking about only one player doing action X and ignoring othersgreyice wrote:"Waaah it's not fair you aren't going after these other people, waaaah it's not fair you want to lynch me, I know all these other people are playing much worse, you're lynching me for totally the wrong reasons! You didn't have a real scumread on me, you just got lucky with your 'tunneling' waaaaaahhhhh"
you're selectively scum hunting
i could care less that you've chosen me in particular to tunnel. the only thing i'm particularly interested in right now is making sure other people are aware of your actions
i don't have any solid reads. i think greyice is scum, i think kovara is town, i think shos might be town (just really dumb). no one else has written much worth reading so farmtd wrote:@Muffin: reads?
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i hadn't read the threaddopog wrote:@muffin why vote empking after pI did?
it was late, couldn't be bothered reading, saw OP, saw he was "unlynchable" in a bastard game, figured i'd see what happens, voted, went to sleep.
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i don't use capital letters, that quote is made up
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greyice
if you think what i did is scummy, then you should also think other players are scummy for doing it. this isn't distracting or deflection, it's fucking logic
yet you're ignoring other players and suggesting i'm scum for doing it
also what are you saying i lied about?
if you think what i did is scummy, then you should also think other players are scummy for doing it. this isn't distracting or deflection, it's fucking logic
yet you're ignoring other players and suggesting i'm scum for doing it
also what are you saying i lied about?
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not really. i would have voted you regardless of your vote on megreyice wrote:First you went for OMGUS
nogreyice wrote:Then you cried and whined that we were voting for you
no. i was asking why, if you truly think something is scummy, you're not questioning other players doing said scummy thing. and so far nothing you've said explains why you're only questioning me about it while ignoring everything else going on the game.greyice wrote:Then you started trying to feed me industrial grade WIFOM about how the other townies were doing it too.
you can scream and shout all you want about me being scum. it's not going to make it true.
by every definition of the term tunneling, you are tunnelinggreyice wrote:Then you lied and accused me of tunneling
that isn't the point i was making, but sure.greyice wrote:And now you're trying to pretend your play is logical.
what i was actually saying is that you're selectively scum hunting, and if you think something is scummy, then logically you should think other people doing it are scummy. but you don't. and you're focused solely on me.
not really - but i do leave open the possibility that i'm wrong about my reads and so i centre all my questioning around the possibility that you're misguided town and i'm trying to figure out where you're coming fromgreyice wrote:And finally you're trying to tell me how to be a better townie
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hm
it just occurred to me that greyice could be a lyncher who's deliberately misrepresenting everything i'm saying
it just occurred to me that greyice could be a lyncher who's deliberately misrepresenting everything i'm saying
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nopegreyice wrote:when someone, in the absence of any evidence that alternative alignments exist, starts speculating that another player is non-mafia scum, THEY ARE MAFIA
i'm just considering different alternatives that would explain why you're so gung ho about lynching me and why you keep misrepresenting everything i say, to the point of probably being deliberate.
i never lied, i never "distracted", my vote on you isn't for omgus reasons, and you are tunneling me while ignoring everything else (and to some extent i'm also guilty of this, but that's mostly because of how the game is playing out and i'm still responding to other people's questions about the game)
so i'm trying to understand why you have such a huge hard on for me. don't get me wrong, i'm flattered, but i don't swing that way.
so let's play a game, greyice. a thought experiment. a completely hypothetical universe exists where i'm actually town (i know, i know, you're thinking this universe existing is impossible, but play along for argument's sake, please) and it's a double day. you get me lynched - where do you go from there? you've done nothing outside of tunnel on me and call me scum, and your case on me is, to put it in the nicest possible terms, a steaming pile of shit that i'd laugh at if i didn't think you seriously thought you had a case.
you're not scum hunting (no matter how much you claim you are - and yes, i am fully aware i am also somewhat guilty of this) and your sole contribution to the game is pushing a lynch on a town player.
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also you seem to be labouring under the impression that i think i'm immune to making scum slips when i'm scum or something - i'm not. i'm actually rather shit at scum, but i do tend to avoid very obvious tells, like hunting for third parties, and i do tend to look a lot more town when i'm scum than when i'm actually town.greyice wrote:Oh muffin. You're not immune. Put enough pressure on, and the scumslip comes sliding out. Plain as day.
and this you can call wifom, but it is what it is.
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you think there's one or no scum among the players on my wagon?greyice wrote:At least two of those players are scum, in my estimation, and I'd actually literally eat my hat on youtube if that's an all town wagon. I'd bet MTD and Dessew, based on their content
what do you make of mtd unvoting kovara and voting you?
if you are town, i'd look at LLD or NS before i looked at anyone else. i don't believe scum are completely avoiding my wagon (i guess it's *possible* scum are among the players keeping their options open and calling my responses bad buttttt i dunno if they'd just sit back and watch here rather than jump on me) and nothing either of them has done so far strikes me as particularly towngreyice wrote:First, do the same for me with a fun analysis assuming I'm town.
as for the kovara wagon (i'm guessing the wagon you pulled up there is from earlier in the game because shos has been part of my wagon for a while now - or he's a double voter, i dunno) i agree it's likely dessew or mtd is scum; more inclined to think dessew than mtd, but i haven't seen much from either that looks town
i don't have any reads that are anywhere near solid yet, though
i hadn't read the thread (see my response to dopog in 191) but even if i had i probably would have voted empking to test it because bastard mod, etcgreyice wrote:Now explain what would be the point of the following sequence
i don't think an admitted bastard mod declaring that X can't be lynched is a "very, very clear answer"
as is, i think there's a possibility votes are secretly counted for the detectives but not registered in the votecounts, but i don't see much good in testing that at the moment, so i'm not
i also have a theory that one detective could be scum and one could be town and they're like treestumps buttttt again, i don't see much good in pursuing this line of thought at the moment, so i'm not
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right. we're talking about a hypothetical universe where i'm town here. what do you make out how my wagon has played out and why scum are avoiding it, then?greyice wrote:I think your wagon is all town. This might be flavored by the fact I think you're scum, but I believe LLD wants you dead for the exact same reasons I do, and NS is clearly applying pressure to people he wants to apply pressure to (same with Shos).
coz i am perfectly aware that LLD is sheeping you, and i am perfectly aware that shos and NS are voting for "pressure" reasons (which is laughable because i don't react to pressure but whatever) <- none of these are town-looking reasons to vote me and all of these i could see coming from scum. the only reason i don't think shos is scum is because some of the things he said on p4 looked mildly town, but his vote on me is pathetic
so i don't have a scum read on any of the other people voting me (i don't have any real read on them except for a somewhat mild town read on shos) but i don't believe scum have completely left me alone this game. which is why i'd be looking at LLD or NS before i look elsewhere if you happened to be town
maybe. but then i don't really get why he's taking that position unless it's an effort to buddy-but-not-really-buddy me (which doesn't make him look any better if i do happen to get lynched)greyice wrote:If you're town, I'd be a hell of a lot more suspicious, because "I don't have an actual town read on muffin, but you're playing really scummy" seems designed to make us both look worse
it's awkward but he's not the only one who seems to be taking this position, either
i wouldn't assume (and i'm not assuming) that they're cops, and if they were a different faction with no relation to scum win con, i probably wouldn't care. at the very least, if i were to do something about it in thread, i'd do more than a naked vote on one of them - coz how the fuck does that benefit me in any way if i'm scum?greyice wrote:So tell me Muffin, if you saw that there was a police faction, a group of COPS as scum, what would you do?
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also, suspicious why?greyice wrote:See you say you wouldn't hunt for "other scum" as scum, but I see you doing it twice and I get a little suspicious
i said i don't do it as scum because i don't do it as scum (and you can take that as wifom, or you can take that as a statement of fact that i've never done it before so this would be the first game if i'm scum). i avoid obvious scum tells when i'm scum precisely because it brings unwanted attention my way.
the reason i'm considering all options for players that i think might have an anti-town win con is because that would necessarily conflict with my own.
i thought you could be a lyncher because your argument on me looked like you were deliberately misrepresenting everything i was saying <- i'm not sure if you'd do this as factional scum, it's risky because of the backlash you'll receive if you do manage to lynch me. lyncher makes sense for that reason. or you could just be really cocky and think you can talk your way out of any trouble you get into for pushing my lynch through on a really shitty basis.
and i have a number of theories about what the detectives are and how they relate to the game; testing whether i could vote for them was the first step in eliminating at least one of these theories.
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if you aren't sheeping him, then what are you doing?
i broke down one of his posts into "bullets" (#205). the rest of them i've been responding to key parts only. but even if it were bullet for bullet, lol at you thinking that makes me scum.
i broke down one of his posts into "bullets" (#205). the rest of them i've been responding to key parts only. but even if it were bullet for bullet, lol at you thinking that makes me scum.
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actually, it was to break down exactly why everything he's saying is incorrect - yes, it was for the purpose of outside readers (i've made that quite clear already - i even blatantly stated that's what i'm doing in 183). if that frustrates an outside reader, then why the fuck are they playing mafia?lld wrote:frustrate outside readers
you're missing the point, but sure, whatever. if that's your stance, then same question to you. what do you think you're trying to accomplish with this? you're claiming this is scummy and you seem unwilling to change your mind. so what's the point of bringing this up - is the only real intent to frustrate outside readers?lld wrote:you also stooped to asking "why me"
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i suppose i could have formatted it better but it would have been essentially me breaking down the six points he gave in the same manner in a different format, soooooooo, not really sure what your problem with it is
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i explained why i speculated about the possibility you're a lyncher. i don't think i can make it much clearer than i did in 218
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@greyice
OK. but your reasons for thinking i'm scum are really weak (or just blatantly wrong). and i think you know they're weak/wrong, but you don't care. and so i'm trying to figure out why you either don't care or you're ignorant of this.
so the options i see are:
- you're town and you don't realise that you're wrong, and that your reasoning is really flimsy
- you're factional scum and you're cocky enough to think you can deal with any back lash you'll receive if you actually push my lynch through for flimsy reasons
- you're some other type of scum that's playing the way you're playing because you have a personal agenda you're pushing
and options two and three are far more likely than the first.
OK. but your reasons for thinking i'm scum are really weak (or just blatantly wrong). and i think you know they're weak/wrong, but you don't care. and so i'm trying to figure out why you either don't care or you're ignorant of this.
so the options i see are:
- you're town and you don't realise that you're wrong, and that your reasoning is really flimsy
- you're factional scum and you're cocky enough to think you can deal with any back lash you'll receive if you actually push my lynch through for flimsy reasons
- you're some other type of scum that's playing the way you're playing because you have a personal agenda you're pushing
and options two and three are far more likely than the first.
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and yet you're "getting sold" on it. why?privatei wrote:Is it conclusive? No.
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uh huhdessew wrote:The wagon on Muffin makes sense to me now, with these explanations both from Greyice and Lambdadelta
i'm interested in hearing which points you agree with from them
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are you saying that every time someone mentions a third party they're scum? or are you saying that it's happened at least once before, and so i'm scum here because ~magic~?
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i didn't answer for him, i asked you a questiongreyice wrote:I'm talking to shos, Muffin.
Why do you feel such a need to answer for him?
that you didn't answer
do you think i'm scum?kovara wrote:all I see is a flailing muffin
LLD's points are that i write wall posts and that i asked greyice why he's selectively scum huntingkovara wrote:honestly, I think LLD's scum-muffin points are more alluring than Grey's one
what do you find alluring about them?
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is this referring solely to the vote on empking?greyice wrote:I figured that scum would come in and spend more time trying to figure out mechanics than scumhunting. Muffin comes in and immediately starts to try and figure out mechanics.
er...
- how is that first link "lashing out"? i've gone over specifically why i didn't like your early game posts and it really has nothing to do with you voting me
- how was that second link an insult?
- that third link is me stating that if i were lynched for the ridiculous reasons i'm being pushed for, i'd forget about this game and move on - i do think any town player on my wagon who believes there's a valid reason to think i'm scum is brain dead
- what was wrong with my points about your early game posting?
*shrug* i've explained this, what part of my reasoning do you think is flawed?greyice wrote:Then, in a game with ELEVEN PLAYERS and a known third-party faction, he starts speculating about YET ANOTHER third party. On day 1. With zero evidence that such a thing exists.
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i was trying to get you to clarify the position you're takinggreyice wrote:you were clearly trying to interrupt my conversation with shos
you asked shos a question; whether he'd read the game you linked.
i asked you a separate question that could not have influenced his answer to that at all
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and you think he's town anyway so why are you getting upset about me interrupting the conversation?
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you keep deliberately misrepresenting everything i'm saying in an attempt to paint me as scummy, and you've been doing this from the get-go, and now you're going on about how i could possibly think you have a hidden agenda here
i've already stated my read on shos. a couple times, actually. i think he's town.greyice wrote:What's your read on Shos, muffin?
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also, you keep ignoring the responses i'm giving in favour repeating the same lines over and over, so i don't think you're actually interested in figuring out my alignment
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like i've gone over, several times now, why i brought up the possibility that you're a lyncher. from my first post you've had a massive hard-on for me, and since then you've been twisting everything i say in an attempt to paint me as scummy; suggesting i'm lying, suggesting i'm insulting players (when i haven't, and even if i had, so what?), suggesting everything i've done is scummy, and pretending my vote on you is purely omgus when i've explained why i voted you. so i thought about this and couldn't figure out why you seemed so convinced i'm scum when your reasons are either misrepresentations of what i was actually saying or so weak that it was laughable. and when i was thinking about possibilities for why you'd be doing what you're doing here, the thought that you could be a lyncher explained everything. the other likely scenario is that you're scum and just don't give a shit and you think you can talk your way out of any trouble you get into for pushing a mislynch on me. what i don't see is how you can be town and think that what you've been doing so far constitutes scum hunting in any way, or think that you actually have valid points here.
so you ask me questions and i give you answers, and when i look at your next posts calling me scum, these answers don't seem to factor into your read
and then i ask you questions and you choose to ignore a majority of them in favour of repeating the same tired lines about how i'm scum for reasons that are abominable
which makes me think you're scum who's not at all interested in actually figuring me out. at this point i'm hoping you're scum because if you're town, your play so far has been atrocious
so you ask me questions and i give you answers, and when i look at your next posts calling me scum, these answers don't seem to factor into your read
and then i ask you questions and you choose to ignore a majority of them in favour of repeating the same tired lines about how i'm scum for reasons that are abominable
which makes me think you're scum who's not at all interested in actually figuring me out. at this point i'm hoping you're scum because if you're town, your play so far has been atrocious
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i don't think the detective faction are protown
and i don't think they're cops
and i don't think they're cops
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the above post was mainly @this quoteIn post 247, Kovara wrote:I am also not at all fond of lynching anyone before the (what I assume to be) the major mechanic gets to come into play. I think cops are a pro-town faction, kinda
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you've called me a liar over things i wasn't lying about, and you exaggerate everything i do. but yes, i'm sure people can follow the links and assess whether you're misrepresenting the point.greyice wrote:I'm extremely tired of your claims that I am misrepresenting you
uh, yes i can. i can both doubt it because i know it's bullshit, and i can doubt it because i'm 100% sure i can bring up more cases of town mentioning third parties than he can bring up cases of scum mentioning them. it is such a common "scum tell" that scum tend to avoid it now (case in point; the only example greyice has is one from almost 3 years ago - and while i'm sure there are other examples, it's far easier to find cases of town talking about third parties)dessew wrote:I think that Greyice's third party tell makes sense in general, you cannot doubt it
besides, talking about a serial killer is slightly different than suggesting someone's behaviour is indicative of a lyncher (or a jester, or any other third party). i have (what i think are) valid reasons for thinking he could be a lyncher.
uh huh. so you think writing walls is scummy? or...?dessew wrote:I also like the points of Lambdadelta's, that your walls are demotivating
considering my lynch is the main topic of conversation, how is it surprising that i'm more interested in that than other things?dessew wrote:you're more interested in your lynch than anything else, as you're mainly trying to convince one of scumreads that you're town
and yeah, i'm considering the possibility that greyice is town and trying to explain where he's gone wrong in his read on me. what's your point here and why do you think that makes me scum?
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(1) that you think this is scummy is laughablegreyice wrote:1) He started the game late and voting for someone who isn't a player and can't be voted for.
2) When put under pressure he reacted by throwing a temper tantrum and ranting at us that we were literally the worst players in the world because we thought he was scummy.
3) When he actually decided to push the case on me that I'm scum (rather than throwing a fit and complaining about how bad we were for voting him) he did it assuming that I'm a THIRD PARTY LYNCHER, not mafia.
4) Frankly he's probably spent more time lecturing us that the Police are anti-town and searching for lurkers than he has actually scumhunting.
(2) this is an example of the misrepresentations i'm talking about
(3) no, i assumed you could be a lyncher after engaging with you - and this came way after i started talking about why i thought you're scum (and ironically this is another misrepresentation of what actually happened)
(4) quote it
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coz i've mentioned the detective faction in response to you questioning me about it, and once recently after the mod announcement, but quote where else i've talked about it
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this is a pretty good representation of what's actually happened so far in this gameIn post 225, shos wrote:I had no reason at all to vote muffin, I did that for pressure. but these two, lambdadelta and greyice, they're pushing it so seriously one might think muffin's actually done something.
it's 12 pages though. read it and decide for yourself
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and dessew's vote is actually awful. he could be scum.
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this isn't a town postIn post 273, Dessew wrote:I have just skimmed the new posts, will make more serios efforts tomorrow. jsyk
@Muffin: I think that Greyice's third party tell makes sense in general, you cannot doubt it. From Greyice's posts I'm inclined to believe that it can be used more excessively than one might suppose just like the amished (do I spell it correctly?) tell (as opposed to tells that could make sense but are absolutely useless thus they're no tells, for instance lurking.) I also like the points of Lambdadelta's, that your walls are demotivating and she didn't use these exact words, but you're more interested in your lynch than anything else, as you're mainly trying to convince one of scumreads that you're town.
nothing i said would stop him giving his own thoughts on thingsgreyice wrote:I just want to point out that once again I wish to talk to a player and get their opinion on things
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why are you whining about what i've said recently as though it's going to stop guyett forming an opinion?
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so let's break down the third party stuff.
you think it's scummy to mention third parties - you linked to a game from 3 years ago where scum did it as evidence that it's scummy to talk about third parties. when i asked you whether you thought town don't also talk about third parties, you didn't give an answer. so all i can assume here is that you're bringing up a shitty tell that was valid once and using it to further an already shitty case on me. i explained why i brought it up, when shos mentioned he also considered the possibility you're a third party you didn't have a problem with it; but i'm scum for mentioning it.
and now dessew is latching onto it in a way that shows he's either not reading the thread and looking for something easy to jump on or he lacks critical thinking skills.
outside of me suggesting you're a lyncher, your reasons for thinking i'm scum are:
- i voted empking in my first post - you asked me about this, i explained it, you suggested you thought it was scummy anyway, i explained why it's not, and then you dropped it and continued suggesting i'm scum for voting empking
- i insulted LLD - i didn't
- i whined about my lynch - not actually what i did
- my case on you is omgus - it isn't (unless by omgus you mean i'm voting someone who is voting me, in which case lol)
and LLD's case on me is
- i could have formatted my posts better - and this is scummy because i'm apparently trying to make people apathetic
- i mentioned that you're selectively scum hunting - and apparently "why me = fry me" which, even if that were what was going on, has never been a legitimate tell
you think it's scummy to mention third parties - you linked to a game from 3 years ago where scum did it as evidence that it's scummy to talk about third parties. when i asked you whether you thought town don't also talk about third parties, you didn't give an answer. so all i can assume here is that you're bringing up a shitty tell that was valid once and using it to further an already shitty case on me. i explained why i brought it up, when shos mentioned he also considered the possibility you're a third party you didn't have a problem with it; but i'm scum for mentioning it.
and now dessew is latching onto it in a way that shows he's either not reading the thread and looking for something easy to jump on or he lacks critical thinking skills.
outside of me suggesting you're a lyncher, your reasons for thinking i'm scum are:
- i voted empking in my first post - you asked me about this, i explained it, you suggested you thought it was scummy anyway, i explained why it's not, and then you dropped it and continued suggesting i'm scum for voting empking
- i insulted LLD - i didn't
- i whined about my lynch - not actually what i did
- my case on you is omgus - it isn't (unless by omgus you mean i'm voting someone who is voting me, in which case lol)
and LLD's case on me is
- i could have formatted my posts better - and this is scummy because i'm apparently trying to make people apathetic
- i mentioned that you're selectively scum hunting - and apparently "why me = fry me" which, even if that were what was going on, has never been a legitimate tell
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@LLD
what are your reasons for thinking i'm scum?
me writing walls that are scummy because i'm apparently trying to create apathy and "why me = fry me" are all you've said about it
what are your reasons for thinking i'm scum?
me writing walls that are scummy because i'm apparently trying to create apathy and "why me = fry me" are all you've said about it
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nothing i've said would stop guyett from giving his own opinion on things, and nothing i've said would obstruct you forming a read on himgreyice wrote:And all you do is attack me. Insult me. Yell at me. Fucking complain that I'm misrepresenting you. Shit at me at EVERY FUCKING TURN. You try and steer the conversation in some way that suits YOUR ends, not fucking letting me get a read on people and interact. You think I have a read on NS? CHRISTFUCK NO. If you pointed a gun at my head I'd say town, but it's not strong by any stretch of the imagination, and here comes muffin, to fucking tell the new guy how to talk to me. AND IT'S ALL THE SAME SHIT. EVERY FUCKING POST, THE SAME EXACT SHIT
as for all i'm doing, all i see there is hypocrisy. and more misrepresentations (lol) - where have i insulted you? you're right that i'm focused on attacking you - i think you're scum and nothing you're doing suggests you're town. but so what?
as for me creating "noise" - everything i'm posting is relevant to the game. a lot of it may be focused on my wagon and your push of me, but that's because it is the thing being discussed most in the game at the moment
are you serious?greyice wrote:#164 I start talking to MTD. #168, there's muffin to fucking attack me and spam shit and try and stop me getting any reads.
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no i haven't claimed
and in hydra madness there was never a wagon on me
and in hydra madness there was never a wagon on me
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btw
here's what you should do if you're going to lynch me today:
(1) assuming greyice doesn't exit the game because he actually is a lyncher, lynch him tomorrow - do NOT let him talk his way out of it, do NOT let him persuade you he thought he had valid points. read the way he's been engaging with me today, read the way he ignores all my responses and only answers some of the questions i ask, and then look at what he's written about me and ask yourself whether anyone could be that dumb as town
(2) lynch dessew the next day - he is scum and his reasoning for voting me is scummy as fuck
in the unlikely event one of these flips town, there is most likely one scum in {guyett, LLD} (i don't think scum have been avoiding my wagon - the reason it's stalled is likely because there's already scum on it - and both of these player slots have been useless and done nothing outside of their vote on me) and dopog is a possibility for lurking scum
here's what you should do if you're going to lynch me today:
(1) assuming greyice doesn't exit the game because he actually is a lyncher, lynch him tomorrow - do NOT let him talk his way out of it, do NOT let him persuade you he thought he had valid points. read the way he's been engaging with me today, read the way he ignores all my responses and only answers some of the questions i ask, and then look at what he's written about me and ask yourself whether anyone could be that dumb as town
(2) lynch dessew the next day - he is scum and his reasoning for voting me is scummy as fuck
in the unlikely event one of these flips town, there is most likely one scum in {guyett, LLD} (i don't think scum have been avoiding my wagon - the reason it's stalled is likely because there's already scum on it - and both of these player slots have been useless and done nothing outside of their vote on me) and dopog is a possibility for lurking scum
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also, just because i know greyice is going to complain about me repeating myself, i'm going to reiterate once more why all greyice's points are bullshit
first and foremost, the third party stuff.
- he brought up a single game from three years ago as evidence that scum talk about third parties
- he ignores the fact that town also talk about third parties
- when shos brings up that he was considering the possibility greyice is third party, he ignores it and says shos is town anyway. but he's still pushing it as a scum tell for me
- he ignores my explanation for why i brought it up
after that, his case boils down to my initial posts
- he is suggesting i have spent a lot more time talking about mechanics than i have scum hunting - ask him to quote this, because he can't (the only times i've talked about it are when he asked about it or just after the recent mod announcement) - basically everything he says about this boils down to my first post, which i've already explained twice now - he acknowledged the explanation and said he finds it scummy anyway - i responded to this and told him that what he's saying makes no sense - he ignored my response and continued on saying it's scummy anyway
- he is suggesting my case on him is omgus - it isn't, i laid out exactly why his initial posts gave me a scum read on him and it really had nothing to do with his vote on me - my thoughts about him were strengthened when i looked at the way he's been attacking me but i don't really think this counts as omgus
- he's suggesting my reactions to the votes on me are scummy because ~reasons~ - there is no legitimate case on me and no one has decent reasons for thinking i'm scum - any reactions to votes on me are because i see this and think it doesn't make sense
as for LLD's points, one of them is playstyle related and the other misses the point of what i was saying
first and foremost, the third party stuff.
- he brought up a single game from three years ago as evidence that scum talk about third parties
- he ignores the fact that town also talk about third parties
- when shos brings up that he was considering the possibility greyice is third party, he ignores it and says shos is town anyway. but he's still pushing it as a scum tell for me
- he ignores my explanation for why i brought it up
after that, his case boils down to my initial posts
- he is suggesting i have spent a lot more time talking about mechanics than i have scum hunting - ask him to quote this, because he can't (the only times i've talked about it are when he asked about it or just after the recent mod announcement) - basically everything he says about this boils down to my first post, which i've already explained twice now - he acknowledged the explanation and said he finds it scummy anyway - i responded to this and told him that what he's saying makes no sense - he ignored my response and continued on saying it's scummy anyway
- he is suggesting my case on him is omgus - it isn't, i laid out exactly why his initial posts gave me a scum read on him and it really had nothing to do with his vote on me - my thoughts about him were strengthened when i looked at the way he's been attacking me but i don't really think this counts as omgus
- he's suggesting my reactions to the votes on me are scummy because ~reasons~ - there is no legitimate case on me and no one has decent reasons for thinking i'm scum - any reactions to votes on me are because i see this and think it doesn't make sense
as for LLD's points, one of them is playstyle related and the other misses the point of what i was saying
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no, read what i actually said
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dopog - 1 (Kovara)
GreyICE - 3 (zMuffinMan, MTD, shos)
Kovara - 1 (Garmr)
MTD - 1 (dopog)
zMuffinMan - 5 (GreyICE, LadyLambdadelta, Guyett, PrivateI, Dessew)
this is the current votecount
there is absolutely no way the first three votes on me are all town - i think greyice is the scum here, but if it's not greyice, it's one of LLD, guyett
dessew is also scum
off the wagon, scum is most likely dopog
GreyICE - 3 (zMuffinMan, MTD, shos)
Kovara - 1 (Garmr)
MTD - 1 (dopog)
zMuffinMan - 5 (GreyICE, LadyLambdadelta, Guyett, PrivateI, Dessew)
this is the current votecount
there is absolutely no way the first three votes on me are all town - i think greyice is the scum here, but if it's not greyice, it's one of LLD, guyett
dessew is also scum
off the wagon, scum is most likely dopog
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do you have reading comprehension issues?
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@guyett
the way the wagon on me stalled when it was {you, LLD, greyice, shos} suggests there was already scum voting me
shos is most likely town
greyice is most likely scum - in the unlikely event greyice flips town, your slot and LLD have been completely fucking useless for the entire game
the way the wagon on me stalled when it was {you, LLD, greyice, shos} suggests there was already scum voting me
shos is most likely town
greyice is most likely scum - in the unlikely event greyice flips town, your slot and LLD have been completely fucking useless for the entire game
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@mtd
lld and guyett's slot contributions to the game so far have been votes on me and nothing else - thus useless
but i think it's unlikely they're scum with greyice - which is why i'd only look at them if greyice flips town
lld and guyett's slot contributions to the game so far have been votes on me and nothing else - thus useless
but i think it's unlikely they're scum with greyice - which is why i'd only look at them if greyice flips town
if you're town, you're very bad at this gamelld wrote:the only person to blame is yourself and your own shitty play
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i was talking more about NS than you
but you've done nothing either
you obviously think i'm scum (hence the vote remaining) - that is your sole contribution to the game
but you've done nothing either
you obviously think i'm scum (hence the vote remaining) - that is your sole contribution to the game
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are you actually retarded?
read what i'm actually saying
read what i'm actually saying
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@lld
no
really
you've thought i was scum from the vote on empking - and you've tunneled since
if you or greyice is town (and it's likely one of you is), then i have nothing to say to either of you except don't join games i'm in because you're horrible at scum hunting and you have no clue how to play
what is hard to understand here? i cannot spell it out any more clearly
no
really
you've thought i was scum from the vote on empking - and you've tunneled since
if you or greyice is town (and it's likely one of you is), then i have nothing to say to either of you except don't join games i'm in because you're horrible at scum hunting and you have no clue how to play
OK. that's fantastic. i think the way the wagon was stalling on me earlier in the game suggests a high likelihood scum was already voting me. i don't believe scum were avoiding my wagon. so i think there's scum in {you, greyice, LLD, shos}. i think shos is town. i think greyice is scum but if he's not, i do not believe both you and LLD are town.guyett wrote:You say ns could be scum for voting you and little else.... I've played with him and thats all he does regardlwss of alignment.
what is hard to understand here? i cannot spell it out any more clearly
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that's not ad hom (you clearly don't know what ad hom is so don't use the term), it's called an insult
ad hom would be me insulting him rather than addressing his points
ad hom would be me insulting him rather than addressing his points
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what specifically do you agree with?kovara wrote:This, is what I agree with.
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i write posts assuming other people outside of the person i'm directing them at will read them. so a lot of my posts directed at greyice aren't so much for the purpose of convincing him he's wrong (that was my initial goal, but i gave up on that when i realised he didn't care about any answers i gave and wasn't evaluating my responses in any reasonable way) but for the purpose of showing others why his arguments are so obviously flawed.kovara wrote:It makes sense, and it gives a little bit of what your mindset could be but that's pretty much it
when someone is leveling accusations at me that i know are bullshit, i first try to convince them that they're wrong, and failing that i move on to demonstrating why their points are bullshit. LLD's main issue with me seems to be based on playstyle. *shrug*
what do you like about them?kovara wrote:and, there is the fact that the only people that I like are LLD and Grey. everyone else is super duper sketchy
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what is there to say "oops" about? it wasn't a mistake. it was late night and i had not read the thread (thus had nothing meaningful to contribute before going to sleep) - i put a vote down on empking to test it because bastard game. that is literally all there is to it, but you're making a big deal out of it.greyice wrote:Note all he's ever said about it is "I hadn't read the thread and even if I had I wouldn't have trusted the mod."
...
Why not just say "I didn't read thread, oops"?
how much of my posts do you actually read? because i have been questioning other players, responding to other players' questions, etc.greyice wrote:Which is cute, but I'd expect you'd do something else. Look, you've been in the game what, a day, and you're already interested in Dessew? You're curious about other players? You're trying to figure things out. If I voted you for shitty reasons I'd expect you'd get mad, and even vote me, but I'd also expect that you'd keep lookin
see, here's why your third party stuff is bullshit - you're selectively applying it here to further your casegreyice wrote:Right here, this is the link. If you're curious as to why I consider that a scumtell, I explained it in this post.
i asked you whether you think only scum bring up the idea of third parties and i asked you this for a reason; because town do it, too. and you'd know this if you'd played more than a couple mafia games (and hey, i'm pretty sure you have played more than a couple). if i bring up multiple examples of town mentioning SK (or other third parties) or calling someone SK (or other third party), would you acknowledge that your tell means nothing?
and you're not even applying this tell universally, you're applying it
only to me
- when shos mentioned he was also considering the possibility you're a third party, you brushed it off and said you think he's town so it doesn't matter. so obviously it's NOT A FUCKING SCUM TELL.and you continually ignore why i brought up the idea that you could be a lyncher, and you have ignored me pointing out that it's something i never do as scum anyway.
greyice wrote:Shall we go over why I really hate it? He wanted to test a theory, his words:
"i think there's a possibility votes are secretly counted for the detectives but not registered in the votecounts"
Now Guyett, how would you go about testing this theory? I imagine you'd do pretty much what I'd do - ask the town to have six votes for EMPKing or Windblown.
And that would make sense. And I could buy that as an actual theory. But Guyett, he never does that.
So does that look like town trying to figure things out? Or post-hoc rationalization from scum?
you cut off the quote midway - why not quote the entire line?
and also ALL of those quotes are directly responding to you talking about it or asking me about it - and since your fourth point is that i spend more time speculating about it than scum hunting and the only time i've talked about it is IN RESPONSE TO YOU i'm going to call this more bullshit you're trying to spin
inb4 you say i'm trying to cut off your conversation with guyett by pointing out your bullshit
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that is NOT what i said at all - and once again you're fucking misrepresenting what i've said about itgreyice wrote:"I'm voting someone to see if there's secret votes the mod isn't counting" is completely fucking horrible.
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what i said about hidden votes was a possibility i was considering as a possibility after i saw that votes didn't officially count in the votecounts - it had nothing to do with my initial vote
it's also something i said i'm not interested in testing at the moment because it's at best a distraction if i'm wrong
at no point did i say i was voting empking to see if there's secret votes the mod isn't counting
it's also something i said i'm not interested in testing at the moment because it's at best a distraction if i'm wrong
at no point did i say i was voting empking to see if there's secret votes the mod isn't counting
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i said "AS IS" (which means with the current information i have - that the votes aren't being officially counted), a possibility i'm considering is votes could be secretly counted - and then i went on to say that i don't see much good in testing that at the moment, but you cut off that part and suggested i'm scummy for not testing it
so YES i'm going to call that a fucking misrepresentation when you're saying i voted empking ot see if there's secret votes the mod isn't counting
so YES i'm going to call that a fucking misrepresentation when you're saying i voted empking ot see if there's secret votes the mod isn't counting
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so what if there was an announcement? the mod is admittedly bastard. until i saw that my vote wasn't officially counted in a votecount i wasn't going to assume anything
how the fuck do you still not get this?
holy shit
you cannot seriously think there's scum motivation in my vote on empking
how the fuck do you still not get this?
holy shit
you cannot seriously think there's scum motivation in my vote on empking
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i didn't read that announcementgreyice wrote:So how did you read an announcement that occurred in [b[post 48[/b] without reading the thread, Muffin?
i opened the thread page one, read the op, read the rules, read the role descriptions, saw the part about detectives not counting towards living players then put a vote down
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yes, yes, you keep harping on about this, but i wouldn't have had any other content to post seeing as i hadn't read the thread so it was either (a) don't post, (b) random vote or (c) vote detectivegreyice wrote:And yes, there's lots of scum motivation to go third party hunting and avoid making firm opinions and actually scumhunting.
so everything you're saying here is utter bullshit
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it doesn't say they're "unlynchable" anywhere - obviously i was using my own terminology
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this is what unlynchable was referring to btw
i used the word unlynchable because it's easier than saying "don't count towards the alive population"
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i'm beginning to think you're just really bad town and you genuinely think you have good reason to think i'm scum
which is saddening to the point of losing faith in humanity
which is saddening to the point of losing faith in humanity
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Unvote
Vote: Dessew
Vote: Dessew
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skimmed last couple pages. i'm about to leave for work and don't really have time for stuff atm
still think dessew is probably scum but don't want lynching happening til i have time to properly read
Unvote
still think dessew is probably scum but don't want lynching happening til i have time to properly read
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oh and
you're 100% shit at reading me if you're towngreyice wrote:MuffinMan is still 100% scum.
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this seems like a lot more conviction than you previously had that i'm scum (you went from vaguely agreeing with greyice and LLD to now thinking there is no possible way someone could think i'm town) with no explanation for where this conviction comes fromdessew wrote:I don't really get how you can possibly think that Muffin (or Kovara) is town. Scum's aim is to derail town and that's exactly what they're doing. I thought that Guyett was a better player but it seems that only Lambdaelta and Greyice make here any sense (maybe Private.)
what exactly are you suggesting i'm derailing, apart from my own lynch? coz while i'd also have reasons to do that as scum, i don't get why you're trying to use it as a point against me
are you going to go into detail about what exactly you agree with in greyice's and lld's points?
uh huhprivatei wrote:Bravo on your impassioned defense. I definitely feel moved to change my vote
no comment on greyice simply repeating his case on me is excellent, no comment on the actual posts where i point out why it's not, just a comment on this one post.
how much of the thread are you actually reading?
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also dopog could be scum but probably not scum with dessew or he'd have probably voted for me by now
i don't really get how he was able to form a scum read on privatei for the reasons he gave and was completely unable to form a read on either greyice or myself
and i remember him being more vocal and argumentative in games i've seen him as town
i don't really get how he was able to form a scum read on privatei for the reasons he gave and was completely unable to form a read on either greyice or myself
and i remember him being more vocal and argumentative in games i've seen him as town
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