Mini 1552 - Paranoia [GAME OVER]


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Post Post #13 (isolation #0) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:50 pm

Post by dopog »

hiya

I have a townbloc. Who wants in?
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Post Post #20 (isolation #1) » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:33 pm

Post by dopog »

vote kovara


doesn't want in...
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Post Post #71 (isolation #2) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:28 am

Post by dopog »

vote: mtd


Hi
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Post Post #82 (isolation #3) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:27 am

Post by dopog »

@Kovara: why are you being so stubborn about this?

mtd is commentating - granted it's only a couple posts but I like my vote here - but hello to you
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Post Post #84 (isolation #4) » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:29 am

Post by dopog »

like even if it's jokey stubborn that's not great Kovara
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Post Post #128 (isolation #5) » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:22 am

Post by dopog »

Hiya : )

So umm @Kovara?
It's not great because, sure you may be asking a question to get out of rvs, but pushing people to answer your "question" or else seems as if you're just asking questions for questions sake!
I was not trying to kill your fun [ sorry if? I actually did : ( ] just, thought it was pretty scummy to jokingly go "guys they're not answering my questions!" because there can't be THAT much purpose behind that question....

Serious question- how much experience do you have with forum mafia?
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Post Post #189 (isolation #6) » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:25 pm

Post by dopog »

Hi

Yeah whatever having trouble reading zmuffs because people when defending themselves will say whatever junk they think.
Except I guess @muffin why vote empking after pI did?

Scumming: MTD is not even making judgements - just kind of making comments on the gamestate and where it's at. Not helpful to just say people are doing x and y and I don't like that without saying "it's scummy" or "I think this about it". Lay a vote. Actually call people out!

PrivateI's posts haven't been.... well much at all really. Reads scum literally non-contributing much.

Might read some of ns' previous games cause he's weird.

Yeah so privateI, mtd scummm weeee?!

Kovara - I dunno what to say. If you're gonna call me scum based off a response to a question and not even give thought to why I wouldn't answer it + respond to it like that then it kinda demotivates....
Like I really dunno what to say to that - it looks like you've gone auto-scum on me and quite frankly that sux because I have reasons for doing what I do and you're not even thinking bout them.

Oh @antihero: I'm away for a couple days and my net keeps dropping here, won't be back till tuesday so I'll have limited access till then : (
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Post Post #390 (isolation #7) » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Post by dopog »

Hey I be back from being away and bad net and stuff : )

Yeah so I'm having trouble trying to read this game. muffin and greyice is starting to read to me like a giant wash, null-fiesta. And really I've been liking MTD's recent posts
Think I'm realising I have a predisposition to reading aggressive playstyles as town when really I dunno... Just need to think. Like legit think.
blah blah

unvote
vote privateI


Only really scumreading private cause yeah just seems like he's trying to do nothing without being held accountable; which is what happens.
Maybe bad atmosphere/vibe about Garmr but that's it really : S
In post 225, shos wrote:about PrivateI: there's no way scum would do that. no way. going to call that one town.
@Shos can you just flesh that out a bit when you come back? Wanna hear WHY you say that!

@Kovara: don't think you're scum @@@

@Guyett: hi; how much of the thread had you read before #347?

cyaaaa
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Post Post #467 (isolation #8) » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:01 pm

Post by dopog »

Yo
grey wrote:You seriously have ZERO READ on either me or Muffin after that?
Hi: Yeah whatever man. I mean it's not *zero read* per se but telling it how it is - that's better than me coming in from time off and trying to force a read out of like... "lol maybe muffin is slight lean scum for this thing". Yes I am having trouble formulating reads. No that's not cancer.

Thanks for saying welcome back though : ) !

Anyways in other news feeling g about shos and junk so mildly townreading that.

@PrivateI: what do you think about greyice, mtd and guyett?

Plan on iso-ing dessew when I get home tonight.
Till then
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Post Post #480 (isolation #9) » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:08 pm

Post by dopog »

hey sorry for my atrocious activity this game. These past two weekends have been funny.
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Post Post #481 (isolation #10) » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Post by dopog »

Anyway have re-read some of the thread.

And I have a bit more clarity on the "no reads" - specifics as to why there is a wash of a read on both - it's because a lot of the early aggressiveness in the war looks town, especially in the light of what looks like honesty in terms of "ok I will stop and consider what the situation would be like if the other person is town, BUT THEY ARE SCUM" but then byeond that the continual aggression doesn't indivate alignment or motivation (people don't give up), and certain stuff amongst it just irks me. Like the constant rebuttals zmuffin was giving moved into him positing that "oh maybe he's a lyncher" - that doesn't seem particularly town along with the "unlynchable" thing (which I guess is really just "do you believe him or not" although I don't know how much sense it makes). And with greyice I didn't like #268 "assuming police are on my team" - in context of him theorising early on and the my and also how he's not particularly open about how much he believes in his scumreads (aside from muffin) but that may be more playstyle.

Again I believe that it's freaking better to not say "I think they are slight town, maybe" and then work from that standpoint because it's not really true and leads me to confbias oftentimes - when I think about it - especially when my read on you two is more in reality is "I can very clearly see them being either scum or town at this point" and upon re-read that's the same, just more enumerated. Will have to look at stuff in context (other players + interactions, flips, what the players says further into the game) or I guess think about it.

Regarding PrivateI I read his posts and I feel a lot more strongly, then when reading the arguments you had against one another, rooted in how I can't accept people not giving much content when they post, irrespective of frequency. #152, #435, #450 for example are just him talking about stuff. Not saying this means this or whatever. It's just stuff, that doesn't help people read him or show he's trying to read others. And that posting style isn't town motivated, and people who do it shouldn't take a free pass cause of WIFOM or whatever.

I expect desssew to flip scum because of his approach to the muffin wagon btw. Reads to me as if he's attempting to stay consistent (like a "good townie" right) and gradually move onto the wagon. Also I guess hypothesis is that he jumped on to push zmuffin to L-1 because there were probably no scum on the wagon prior. I don't think that's arbitrary, but will think over it some more if he does flip scum.

@shos can you answer my question pleaaase?
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Post Post #482 (isolation #11) » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Post by dopog »

byeee
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Post Post #515 (isolation #12) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:57 am

Post by dopog »

Hi

vote mtd


Can whip out the guns and words and quotes tomorrow when not on phone but basically: Quick flash of his iso sounds as if he knew zmuff was town but was also hoping for his lynch. His defence of zmuff sounded as if he agreed that zmuff wasn't contributing doing much, but he just attacked grey for whenever grey kinda exaggerated stuff.

Also the vote on dessew looks someone begrudging in the context of posts where he says stuff like "yeah I agree with your points on dessew, but not seeing much else scummy".

Only thing bugging is why he would say that stuff about l-1 / l-2. Seems like something you wouldn't miss if you were gonna set up a bus....

Gonna head off to sleep now cyaaas
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Post Post #530 (isolation #13) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:59 am

Post by dopog »

Hey all: I'll come at this with full force tomorrow hopefully.

@mtd: who do you think is mafia?

Bye
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Post Post #550 (isolation #14) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:40 pm

Post by dopog »

Hey boys and girls. Yeah, here it is: would really only be content with either MTD or PrivateI lynches today.

Don't think MTD's done that much real scumhunting. What? Yeah. Just kinda defended the heck out of zmuffin and scumread Greyice. And I don't know where it came from I mean this kind of progression within his reads especially on zmuffin (boldyyy added to these quotes);
In post 163, MTD wrote:
In post 161, GreyICE wrote:
In post 149, Dessew wrote:Because I'm slow, I guess, and thus I don't really get why there's a wagon on Muffin. Feel free to explain it.
Dessaw, read the above post. Seriously. That's what he calls content. Oh, and voting for the moderator. And whining that I'm scum and LLD is a bad player, because that must be why we have a scum read on him!

He's just blatantly attacking everyone voting for him, and trolling. <snip> lynch players doing that, Dessaw. That's how you nail scum.

Everyone should explain in their next post why they're not voting Muffin.
Agreed, he isn't contributing much.

Wtf? He isn't voting the moderator, nor did he ever.
Well, that's just trolling probably.


No, that's not how you nail scum. This is how you lynch players regardless of their alignment.
If I was voting Muffin right now, that would be for a policy lynch and I don't do policy lynches.
Seems to let zmuffin off the hook with no thought. Like "agreed" but nope he's not scum, probably trolling. That doesn't say anything about what mtd thinks zmuffin is. References a policy lynch, and really I think that it's just to set up "I could vote zmuffin", don't even know what the policy is.....
In post 182, MTD wrote:
Muffin's defense really isn't that good
,
however
I like the way ICE is pushing this even less, he is handling it too much like a closed case, not answering muffins points but rather just saying they are scummy.
@Muffin: reads?
He really just lets muffin off. To insta-town read him (or more accurately, not even consider him for a lynch) because he has picked a side. And so from then on he has kinda decided that greyice is mafia and zmuffin should not be lynched. As in the same thing that he is accusing greyice of doing.
In post 345, MTD wrote:@LLD: This:
In post 221, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:what do you think you accomplish with your posts above? you're arguing with someone who thinks you're scum and will almost certainly not change his mind. You're not stupid enough to not realize this.

So the only real intent you can have in making this drawn out bullets for bullets/points for points argument with him is to frustrate outside readers and create apathy towards you and he, so that people fall off your lynch wagon. Very common scum strategy, but very obvious.

Besides, you also stooped to asking "why me" which is death anyway, so.
Is actually the best case on Muffin I've seen in this game, but still it isn't conclusive IMO
, after rereading I think the same could be said about Grey, and even better so.
Why the bold?
It just doesn't look like he's thinking. Doesn't look as if he wants to know who is what and think it out. What he accuses greyice of doing. But more subtle, more.... arbitrary decision making to pursue grey that's veiled by a defence of zmuffin. That's mafian.

Will look at him and dessew later.

I'm cooling down on the PrivateI scumread a bit because dessew did flip scum and two scum on the zmuffin wagon voids my hypothesis from before. It's conceivable but I guess just less possible than I thought before. The unaccounted lurking/lack of content itches at me big time regardless.

So yes MTD then PrivateI

Would probably echo the sentiment about a mara/dessew scumteam not looking likely. Although what they were both saying might be different to what the votes were saying (as in that's the thing - bit iffy on the vote patterns that's stopping me from "lol mara is town") so I'll do some vca sometime.

@shos: like I asked before I guess, how are you reading privateI at the moment?

Wanna ask @mastin a question but not sure what at the moment. Something is weirding me here.

byeee
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Post Post #605 (isolation #15) » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:50 am

Post by dopog »

Hey

Got the prod.
This apathy got to me : (
Anyway really wanted to say I am here and I guess I'm not too miffed about what's happening seeing as I've said nothing for ages.
It's pretty late where I'm at so I'm gonna sleep;
but will try to crack up a reads list or really something to work with before day end.

@marangal: yeah I guess I was thinking that mtd/privateI were most likely mafia. I guess the whole time however I'd been assuming threee mafia so I thought "don't really know if they're partners but definitely one of them is mafia" so yeah those two felt like somewhat concrete scumreads so I wanted to focus there today. I guess if it is two mafia, the partner may be less willing to bus so I'd have to think about that I suppose - Especially if pI isn't mafia.
@shos: I mean obviously with the zmuffin flip - it is like "well mtd was defending a vanilla townie". But my feels were that he didn't even think about the read. As in there was no fight/desire to read zmuffin after he had made judgement about greyice. And so letting anyway off in the sense of "well they've been playing a bit weird but this other guy is scummy so I'm not gonna try to work out this first guy's alignment" doesn't come from town motivation I think.

Will get to mtd's response to me in the morning cause haven't really processed it + it's almost four am wow

Cyaaa : )
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Post Post #627 (isolation #16) » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:23 pm

Post by dopog »

MTD: man show me where you were trying to work out muffin's alignment, cause I'm not seeing it.
Just seems like you thought he was townish cause of circumstances of his wagon early, and then defending him whilst saying he hadn't generated much content.
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Post Post #629 (isolation #17) » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:46 pm

Post by dopog »

Ok let's go at this more mtd;
read on shos?
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Post Post #693 (isolation #18) » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:33 pm

Post by dopog »

Ok. here. Hey. Hi. Will be in and out till deadline but really I'm not playing this right. Just have been busy and not feeling it lately and I'm sorry.
I'm gonna go stream of consciousness when I do post now at least this day because nothing else is doing it for me.

So,

@jon; 515 is not saying either definitively. I mean the whole thing was assuming that there was one scumteam/no weird permutations of a mafia team. It's just saying that MTD prob scum but there is this one thing that is making me slow on it. That's really it.

And Jon I'm NOT seeing him (MTD) trying to scumhunt, trying to get it done for town. Really so many of his reads just absolutely feel as if they are "oh yeah could be bad but on the other hand, this so I don't think so". Sure that could be a struggle to read people. But it doesn't look like an honest fight. Just seems like a fat I'm gonna null read out on people and from there I can decide if they are scum or not. Like with zmuffin and even with dessew he thought #436 reads very null and then #466 without voting he seems to CHOOSE (as in arbitrarily - i.e. set up a bus) that he is interested in dessew. Those progressions on zmuff and dessew don't read town.
So yeah I dunno I feel as if I'm not gonna stop with MTD. The "MTD-scum is easy to see" sentiment from Greyice doesn't really wanna make me slow down on it very much mostly because I can't just go roll with that. I'm trusting what I read in the thread and that reads mtd-mafia to me. I mean if you wanna expand on it greyice go for it

Reflection that MTD scum probably means three scum - although that is what I thought anyway.

Meh my shos read is pretty darn null. I can see him scum with my top two, and his flip on PI between day 1 and 2 was weird so that's something but his kinda defence "WHY WOULD I DO THAT TO DESSEW" reads town to me - pending my re-read of late day 1 because he could be misconstruing his part. But I don't think so? Same with kovara /marangal I suppose except

@Mastin: Can you just flesh out your progression of thoughts on shos a bit more? Wanna see where you're coming from.

Gotta go now but really here are my general readings of it all;

~
MTD mafia tier:
MTD

~
Maybe mafia tier:
Jon

~
If those two above aren't mafia then I dunno what tier:
Shos, mastin

~
Probably-maybe-kinda town tier:
Guyett, Marangal

~
Town town tier:
Lady Lambdadelta, Greyice

Just looking at that for a couple secs those people in the two null-town (third and fourth) tiers are pretty interchangeable except for maybe guyett who could be town town one day! Guess also at a glance it looks a bit poe-esque but that's what I feel and how they interact and I gotta go so have it.

Cyaaa : )
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Post Post #697 (isolation #19) » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:05 pm

Post by dopog »

I'm vt all the way
Go hammer away

This is probably it eh? and I guess as I said before not really too miffed; played average and stuff

But I mean seriously shos and (mostly?) mtd. I'm not like "oh yeah that's a concrete scumtell" I'm saying that's what I think when I read a post.
Cya
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Post Post #699 (isolation #20) » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:59 pm

Post by dopog »

Pretty much what I was saying there...

I pick on how stuff reads, not what it literally says. I mean your #436 sounds like a null read of dessew, that's all I'm saying man. I mean I guess saying that's how I read stuff can lead to potensh indefensible arguments which I agree are complete crap but I think about the things in CONTEXT of other stuff. I suppose I don't dump all that context at once and I think about stuff people right and come to conclusions in thread that aren't explained in thread.

So i.e./e.g. your #436; I mean it just reads like a sliding towards a bus vote on dessew. It really does. He was going down. You hadn't commented on him before much at all and you say he could be bad, but there isn't much you have on him. And the read progresses from there until you vote him. And that looks scummy/artificial all that bad stuff
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Post Post #701 (isolation #21) » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:40 pm

Post by dopog »

I'm phoneposting in between lectures/tutorials, so pumping out content is not particularly easy.
And I guess I have said where I stand on stuff

Quick things I've just been thinking about

Mastin and I are reading the game pretty similarly - reads lists - but the weird thing is she isn't pushing mtd that hard. Lean town there forever probably but yeah I guess look at those mtd-mastin interactions because I think like mastin said ap implied they are probably opposite aligned. Hrmmm lemme think about it I guess will get back to on it

Got a bit miffed reading shos' vote on me. Probably moves him into less town than marangal, mastin territory

I think I considered than gave up on greyice's stuff on jon. Think that my read on jon was a lot lurk and now a lot poe and interactions with shos, mtd, epsecially commenting on mtd's town game but not really mine (same last game the three of us all played as town in).
Anyway @greyice; just think about nature of this game regarding jon; not a good lynch today but think it through. all I'm saying.

Guyett no change still proba town, maybe a bit upset at the vote but seemed less let's hop on town dopog and more "lolbadpost" which I guess makes me sad but eh not scummy.

So probably looks same except shos a bit scummier, mastin a bit townier.

Woo
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Post Post #702 (isolation #22) » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:42 pm

Post by dopog »

Clarifying; Mastin townier because we are reading the game in a big picture/reads on all players sense kinda similar

Gotta go probably be an hour and a bit till next post
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Post Post #705 (isolation #23) » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:58 pm

Post by dopog »

Mtd where you standing on marangal?
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Post Post #710 (isolation #24) » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:49 am

Post by dopog »

re above: All to do with context. Me thinking stuff out as it happens. I didn't realise how tight our reads were until those couple of posts. Guyett; Wanna ask why you're pushing me on it because my flip is pretty sealed already (as in will be lynched). Not that you can't just wanna see what you say? Also from what you're saying you think scum was off the dessew wagon?

Anyway deadline is in a bit so someone should maybe hammer Idek

@Jon: I think I was moreso surprised that you didn't mention me in the context of playing a game with me iirc. I dunno just comparing with how you were somewhat quick to townread mtd supported with meta reasons. You hadn't played with him before that game yes?

@MTD; what would my townflip do for your reads?

Dunno girls and boys. Not really too much left to say.
can't call for effore because I myself haven't given it much of the game
Some of it's been fun though : )
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