Left 4 Dead Mafia! (Game Over!)

[RedCoyote]

dats racis

[RedCoyote]

DGB, why would you hydra with someone who was scum last game?

VOTE: SweatingChessball

[RedCoyote]

Well, I was going to read over the thread tonight, but now I don't know what to do.

The scum will use the lost/recovered posts to screw with us.

I'd like to talk about actual theme stuff, but I guess that can wait until D2.

Mod

, is the game focused only on Left 4 Dead theme-wise or is it possible that it will have Left 4 Dead 2 elements as well?

[RedCoyote]

I guess I'll read up to post 360 and then stop there for now. Give me a little while.

[RedCoyote]

Alright, I just read up the game. I don't expect anyone to read over my notes word for word since I will sum everything up at the end, but you should read through them if you want a better idea about how I'm arriving at my conclusions. I would also like it if you read the questions I ask of you specifically.

Spoiler: Game Notes through post 360 (right before the site crash)

They confirmed way too late so they were being either lazy or scum.

And you're inclined to think it was the latter? Why? Also, why are you saying that it's semi-serious? Is it or is it not serious? Also also, why single out that play for late confirmation? I know for a fact that both myself and Thor (Thor as evidenced by the OP) were also late to confirm.

---

Right, so I'm pretty dang certain this opener makes you town, but serious question--I was the third-to-last to confirm; does that make me scum, too?

I disagree. I think it's old hat. You having to ask that question should tell you that it wasn't anything special. You, DGB and BB need to check yourselves on this read.

And why would you assume they're scum again?

Eh, just kind of a fun place to throw my first vote.

---

So doesn't that make it, "not random?"

Yes. Yes, it does.

---

Why so serious?

Serious = scum?

---

So I just caught you for wrong reason. Noted!

Good point.

---

because it's taking the fun but instead of running with it (voting Aegor), he takes this approach, to avoid drawing attention to himself.

I disagree with you here, mastin. I think he would draw more attention to himself by voting himself (even though he's the second player to do so) than he would by joining the leading wagon.

I don't necessarily think it makes Aegor or Rubicon more or less likely to be scum.

---

How can you have a gut townread of a player that hasn't posted yet?

This.

---

Not everything I'm posting is

actually

serious. It's just meant to look that way. Everything I post is at least semi-serious, in that I do have reasons for it--but I do exaggerate.

I despise this entire post, but this segment in particular seems very forced.

mastin: dopog would be a mislynch!
Bulb: ...but dopog hasn't posted yet. How could you know that?
mastin: Well, I'm not being serious. I just want it to look like I am. I mean, I'm semi-serious all the time. But I exaggerate. But I am actually serious because I have a feeling it dogor is town. But he could be scum.

Yuck. A million times yuck. Only scum would think that kind of overjustification would look rational.

---

(BTW, I think mastin is town now)

Because of the gender stuff? What does that have to do with mastin's alignment?

---

Also, how do we want to approach this mechanic? I would think that we should have informal votes (perhaps closer to the end of the day) to designate horde victim pools.

I was thinking about how beneficial it would be to discuss this earlier, but I don't know if it will help us much since there's no real way of checking whether or not those with the hoarde directional ability do what you tell them to do.

---

I really like Rubicon's 108.

---

I am not. I repeat. NOT. Accepting townreads on me, when I've specifically gone out of my way to weird players out. Like...Nero's response is probably from town. That, I'd expect. Not...this.

Normally, I'd like this comment. I think scummastin is plenty capable of writing this, however.

Dat OMGUS.

It's still OMGUS when he specifically explained why he was voting you?

---

He OMGUSed mastin with only 3 voets on him and still in RVS.

It was RVS up until post 108, vez?

---

That said, I have enough respect for him to provide a chance for future gains, as I feel respectfully confident in my ability to read him correctly.

I don't understand why this would necessarily preclude a vote though. I mean, that's the whole point of using your vote, Thor. At least, that's how I approach the game as town.

To put it another way, you could vote mastin even though you're not too confident on your current scumread of mastin and be open to the idea of changing your vote should you want to.

Weird post.

---

Yay thor. The guy we need to sheep to get a win.

1) You say we should sheep Thor to get a win, but you don't vote SC with him.
2) Thor said he had a scumread on mastin, which, based on your only post thus far, seems to be opposite of your read of the game.

The reason I bring these points up is because this post was lazily made and you didn't take the time to put much thought into whether or not Thor's contribution was a good one or not.

---

Do you want me to count the reasons why?

mastin only asked you to do this twice and voted you because you hadn't done so...

In other words, YES.

The town motivation for posting this in response to Aegor's RVS vote saying he was pushing a mislynch is that it's true

This is way overthought. Ain't no one going to remember what mastin said in some stray post about dopog on page 6 on day 4, page 68. So to say that mastin is taking a mislynch off the table is a joke at best. Players change their minds all the time. Other players forget what other players reads are. Heck, look at the post above. AD made a grand total of five posts when Thor asked AD what his DGB read was.

AD's 71: DGB is town.

So, I mean, is AD now 100% town because he's taking an SC mislynch off the table? But my greater point is that Thor missed AD's 71, which was much more obvious that mastin's point about dopog.

---

Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him.

Do you think Rubicon and mastin are scum together?

---

Also, I want us to decide on an approach to the zombie kills ASAP. I am thinking that maybe around five days until deadline (unless a wagon really gains speed before then) we start posting our top three suspects and work toward a list that every town person is willing to submit. I really like the idea of using them as policy lynches and lurk lynches in order to retain info from the day lynch; that is the obvious play.

Well, I'm happy to post my scumreads all day, but, the more I think about it, the less inclined I am about having those choices planned out.

---

As for the mechanic, it's my opinion that if you are a VT, just submit your own choices and screw what everyone else thinks. Only town has control of the mechanic, so to try and take control of it from those people means you don't trust them and are willing to allow scum to influence their choices.

Yeah, this is where I am. I don't think I'd mind Thor's idea, but since we can't hold players to voting the people we tell them to, we really can't except that to be extremely effective.

Still, there's no harm in saying "this group of people is thought of as popular scumreads and good policy lynches".

Like, for example, I think most people would throw vez in that group, and I would be happy with that.

---

mastin seems mastin to me at the moment, dunno why everyone is afraid when mastin mastins. Its annoying yes, but not necessary scum at the moment.

So I take it you are piggybacking on sekai's 152?

---

I've seen this format elsewhere.

zora did/does it in some of the games he mods. I don't know if anyone else does, but supposedly there's a script for auto catching votes using that format.

---

*raises hand*

You've actually done zero content-wise. You've been loud and arrogant, but you're a paper tiger. I have no read on you one way or another.

---

You are reading the mod's info in the most rose-colored way possible if you believe scum won't be given at least one if not more tools to influence the horde.

Oh, you know, this is actually a pretty good point. Theme-wise, it's likely the scumteam will have something similar to a pipebomb/molotov cocktail.

---

Maybe Molla (actually he might be a Mafia Usurper Traitor this game)

This is oddly specific. Why?

---

There's no way it was accidental. Nero is nowhere in the post you quoted from. You would have had to insert his name manually.

Elaborate on this for everyone using links and careful rhetoric. This is a pretty big accusation you are lobbing against him. AD needs to be held accountable, but I need to hear this argument play out because it could significantly change my stance on both of you.

---

Rubicon's p much ignoring his wagon.

I don't think this is generally scummy. This case is no different.

---

If you want to figure me out, maybe just ask me something?

For what it's worth, Rubicon, I have you as a townread.

---

unvote
vote PeregrineV

You spend this entire post talking about Bulb and then you vote Pere? Why didn't you mention anything about Pere? This vote is really awkward.

---

I'm not really a big fan of the bolded 'cause like if town aren't sending in similar lists then certain people have less and less chance of getting horde killed.

True, but you're discounting the up side of Toog's plan: That the scum cannot influence the collective hoarde push if it is left more independent.

That being said, now I'm coming back around to agreeing with Thor.

---

This type of insane troll logic is basically something I can only see coming from a town-Peregrine.

I kind of agree with this, but I still think Pere would make a good lynch.

...I specifically went out of my way to

avoid

doing those things.

Eh, cop out. I don't buy it. You still read the same to me. It's easy for you to put on a big song and dance because of the gender thing, I think. By this I mean, you're easily able to say "I'm completely different now, so if you have a scumread on me, it's because you haven't figured out the new me yet~!"

Also, I change my mind: dopog's ridiculously town. Never lynch this guy. He is town, through-and-through. This one, I'm having a bit of trouble explaining right here and now (which is bad; I'm specifically trying to break that habit this game), but it is towntowntowntowntown.

I don't get this at all. Null at best, and even that would take some convincing. He's all over the place. I'll wait until he has to actually handle some pressure to be more definitive about him though.

---

"I'm being scummy and not town at all but it's

on purpose

so it's okay!"

This. This is exactly my position on mastin.

---

He asks questions. He actually tries to think of othe rposibilities except Rubicon.
He gives a few reads.

He gives 3 completely unexplained townreads, 1 completely unexplained vote, and 1 fencesitting read on Bulb. Not what I'd call the post of the year, vez.

---

At the end of the day, I'm not overly concerned about the way you guys want to handle the VT thing. Either A) I'm not VT and it doesn't apply to me any ways and I probably don't any control over what you guys choose to do, or B) I am VT and would just use my ability the way I want anyways because screw herd mentality and giving scum info.

Gosh, I love playing with you as town, Toog. I only wish that one day I could trust that you'd never vote yourself (a horrible, horrible habit that you should cease doing ever again). Aside from that though, quotes like this make it such a joy to play with you. I can tell you are town.

---

I've played with Toog before and I think he says some blisterly anti-town shit as town so he's town via meta? IDK, I hate the idea of giving someone a townread based on derp.

But can't you accept that players may approach the game different than you and not necessarily be scum?

---

If I flavor spec'd a bit and the mechanic, I think it's likely for scum to have something like bile bomb.

A bile bomb depends on if L4D2 flavor would make it into this game or not.

Based on what I've read so far, I have three pretty solid townreads on

Aegor

,

Toog

and

Rubicon

. Aegor and Toog have specifically said things about the mechanic that were questions I had as town coming into this game. Surprisingly enough, very few players had really brought up the mechanic. I was think that this wouldn't net much benefit because everyone would want to put their two cents in on how the mechanic should be used and, therefore, no one would really benefit from getting any town credit for it. The opposite has been true though, and Aegor and Toog both score good town points for their brainstorming. Toog's feistiness is Toogtown to me. I've never played with Aegor, but he's precocious and makes me actually think about how players are or aren't helping the town. Unlike most of y'all, I liked Rubicon's 108. Good questions of BB (which BB never answered), agreeable reads on mastin and BB, and a light remark with DGB. Maybe because I could see myself making a similar post that I like that post so much. I also think Rubicon and mastin are not scum together, so Rubicon must be town if I scumread mastin (which I am).

I have weaker townreads on

Bulb

,

NC

,

pidgey

and

AP

. Bulb's coming down on mastin has been in line with my own impression of mastin. I also do not think Bulb is faking this overall melancholy attitude he has. He is playing different than what I would otherwise expect of him. I really would like him to elaborate on his AD read though, because that was something that no one else really picked up on. NC has been consistent and aggressive. I like his presence in the game and I haven't found anything that made me suspect him. pidgey is similar although he doesn't have a strong a presence and I have more disagreements with him. AP has good contributions that are firm and considerate; I'm worried we may butt heads at some point as he starts changing his mind about everything though.

---

The best lynch today would be

mastin

. There has been far too much weight on this idea that mastin's playing differently deliberately. I don't doubt that mastin thinks this, but I don't find it to be the case. Further, even if that's true, that doesn't necessarily mean we can't get a scumread off of it. Let's talk specifics though. 61 is what I consider to be the worst post in the game thus far. mastin's overexplanation of being serious or not is highly questionable. Something that really doesn't sit will with me is this sentence in particular,

Not everything I'm posting is

actually

serious. It's just meant to look that way.

Ugh. That just makes me shudder. That reads as pure scum mentality to me. Later, mastin questions townreads in 118, which I'd usually be supportive of someone doing. I think scummastin is very capable of faking this though, and it comes across as a little too thick. I also question the allegation of OMGUS. This weird accusation drew me closer to Rubicon. I don't think mastin is being honest here. Lastly, in 320, I want to point out mastin continually beating players over the head with the "I'm different now; this means you can't scumread me". mastin isn't saying those words exactly, but doing just enough to get you to arrive at that conclusion on your own.

The second best lynch today would be

vez

. His start in 125 is lame. I don't know what the hell he's talking about in his comment about RVS. He essentially steal's mastin's argument and uses it for his own. There's nothing original here. When we get to 137, vez talks about the town needing to sheep Thor, except that he forgets to sheep him. Now, before you say that vez may just be kidding around, it's also worth noting that Thor called out mastin in 134. This is relevant because it vez seemingly has a townread on mastin. There's a contradiction here, but the main point is that vez didn't take the time to really consider Thor's content likely because he's trying to buddy to him. I don't like vez's townread of dopog in 333 either. dopog's posts have not been anything special. They're pretty detached from one another and scattered, I think. That's a strange person to come out and townread for given how many better candidates there could be.

I usually like to have three good scumreads at this point of a catchup post, but I am having difficulty coming up with a third. This is not because I think the rest of the game is town, but because nearly everyone else is a weak scumread of mine. If I had to pick, it would probably be BB. I don't feel very confident in that though because BB just has so little content to speak of. The jury is still out on

Majiffy

,

Alpazard

and

Sven

. I've got them in a null territory. Everyone I didn't mention I wouldn't be sad to see lynched today, but either mastin or vez should definitely be the choice.

[

Town

]------Aegor-Toog----Rubicon-----AP-Bulb--NC-pidgey---Alpazard-Sven-[

∙

]Majiffy--GIF-Thor--SC-Pere--Zde--sekai-AD-dopog--BB----vez--mastin-----[

Scum

]

[RedCoyote]

UNVOTE: SweatingChessBall3; VOTE: mastin2

[RedCoyote]

So many EBWOPs needed for it. I should've proofreaded better, but I am tired. Night!

[RedCoyote]

I'm here. I was waiting until the old posts were put back in place before making another post... I feel very uncomfortable that there's a part of the game that's missing but is slated to just "reappear" at some indefinite time. Frankly, I'd rather have it just completely wiped altogether since it was only like 12 - 24 hours or something like that.

In any case, will be making another wall soon, I suppose. It's not that I'm not interested in the game, but I was going to wait until Saturday and just catch up again so I could do it all in one sitting with the missing posts back.

[RedCoyote]

I also don't just think that RC is lurking. I think that he is deliberately using the loss of posts as an excuse to not post.
We have a week, so I don't feel the need to vote for someone who can definitely be lynched yet.

I was going to read yesterday, but then I started getting caught up in the Oscars and got kind of lazy. Reading now though.

[RedCoyote]

Spoiler: More Stuff

I don't remember what exactly.

It obviously didn't leave much of an impression on you if you are this indifferent.

---

Mastin is intentionally obfuscating emotions / content by being willfully scummy. This is anti-town at best, potentially scum motivated, and not allowed to live beyond D3 unless somehow confirmed.

Agree 100%.

---

I never manage to sway a town with any case I make so I'm rarely doing that.

The thing is, vez, no one is asking you to be the town leader here. I think all Sven is asking is that you explain what pinged your gut. If you can't explain it, then you should be prepared to catch flak for that.

---

P-edit: Vezok looks townie because hes not afraid to say whats on his mind as he has the thought. His majiffy vote looks town here since hes not afraid to throw it out and see where it goes without backlash from having forgot why he had it. I think this is sort of the stuff mastin is picking up on.

See, this resonates with me one million times better than mastin saying, "Oh, vez plays like me, so read him again and you'll see he's town".

I get where you are coming from here. I'm still really concerned with him buddying mastin though. It also doesn't explain the Thor situation I described in 495.

---

Town does it all the time.

I'm with Sven on this one. Maybe you cannot point to something specific because you didn't take notes/are too lazy to re-read, but you can at least communicate in vague concepts. vez could say a number of things in this regard, "I seem to recall townMajiffy being more active", "I think townMajiffy was critical of player X at one point, but that didn't make sense to me", etc.

---

Not remembering EXACTLY why Majiffy is scummy isn't a scumtell?

Why not? As scum, if I can get away with voting someone without being held accountable for it, I'll take it every time.

---

This is the entirety of your iso (that is available) when I voted you. It just goes on like this. Little side commentaries and fluff questions filled with lots of quote blocks. It's the type of content that scum do to look active.

This is a great point. This is another solid Toogtown post.

---

Now what the fuck is your problem?

Lol @ faking being offended. Lol @ acting like scum caught for the wrong reason.

---

Vezok's post here rang aggressively null to me.

...But you agreed with mastin that vez was acting town?

---

My post was a joke and not intended to be taken seriously.
Also Thor has his own way of making people sheep him.

So then will you say that, unequivocally, the town should not sheep Thor? Given that you two have very different reads on this game, I mean.

---

That might make sense...if I hadn't had a vote in play elsewhere. So...whut? Seriously, justify why you found this weird some more.

Your SC vote wasn't presented or argued seriously, in my opinion, so to say your vote was "in play" is dishonest.

You note this but it is literally only IIoA. I agree that I didn't note Action Dan's post here or make commentary about it...but what does that say about anything?

This isn't a point against you. I was making a point to sekai about their mastin read.

---

He is softly defending fucking scummy players like majiffy without any real thought or presence. Just like throwing it out there for adding some substance and posterity to come back too it seems, all the while without actually being talkative about it.
Me no like. i KNOW he might do these at times, but I especially dislike the people he defends (vezok, majiffy) without any reasoning. Bb is scummy now.

Love, love, love this post by pidgey. I agree 100%.

---

I don't even remember where my vote was previously and am too lazy to look.

This further proves the point I just made above in this post.

---

alp wagon is cool but i am going to #rebel and stay on vbezok

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, Sven. Why's it good?

alp wagon is cool cuz i say so

:\

---

Can you explain your townread on pidgey for me? I don't really have one at all and I don't see anything in your post that indicates you should have one either.

I like 215, 293, 305, 353, and 506. I don't agree with all of these posts, mind you, but I do think pidgey has been very upfront about his reads and you can understand where he's coming from. Post 506 I like in particular because I think BB is being cut way too much slack from the game as a whole.

---

rc´s post was good but i´d like to see some interactions

You say this, but you didn't really engage me at all. To be fair, I didn't really ask you any questions, but it would've been nice to see you pick out a thing or two from what I said to run with in some way if your stance is going to be that you need to see me interact to get a better read on me.

I was on board with your vez case, but I'm not liking these latest posts of yours.

---

SC = StrangerCoug. Different acronyms for DGB/Chess will help me.

Same here, but he's not in this game.

---

They come back to that same RVS wagon throughout the entire game. No, seriously. I see it done, time and time again, across all games. The easiest example to cite is in Xenogears, where there was an eight-person wagon in the early-stages of the game on TiphaineDeath. All nine players were analyzed to death (literally, death) on that wagon--not just immediately. But continuously throughout the game. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. That's why it was a scumtell from Rubicon.

Was Rubicon in that game?

Ignore the word "actually" and use the more accurate "entirely". Throughout that post (and all subsequent posts!), I make it crystal-clear that's what I meant.

You can't go back and rewrite history here, mastin. "I said X, but I meant Y". Words have meanings. It's not even so much that I am concerned the degree of certainty you're talking about here. I hate the overally feel of the post. The post is trying too hard to defend your position. Like, I could see scummastin's brain working here, thinking that this was a serious liability to call dopong town without him having made any posts, so you force extra hard this crazy story about how "sometimes you say things that are actually, really, totally serious" but sometimes when you say "actually, really, totally, you mean semi-serious, exaggerated reasons".

Yet if you bother to read those posts for more than a second, you'll realize exactly how transparently semi-serious (rather than entirely serious or entirely joking) they are.

So everytime you say X I should step back and consider that you really meant to say Y?

Then you don't know me. At all. It's right there. In my posting. That painfully-obvious effort to not be the same person.

The only thing I can say about your meta is that you post a lot, are verbose, use a lot of smileys, and overuse bold/italic/underline tags. I see no departure from that in your play this game. Call that a shallow perception of your meta, but I call relying on meta a pretty shallow way of playing Mafia to begin with.

And I'm sick of that. Of, frustratingly, having been off my mark. Time. And time. again. Of maybe eventually getting nightkilled, but having been nightkilled more out of pity and respect for my theoretical capabilities rather than for my actual skill. You don't know me.

Poor you. This is a lot of talk though, mastin. This does nothing for me. I mean, this is actually exactly what I am talking about. You're putting all this effort into selling me on you being this oh-so-different player and that I am wrong to read you as scum due to these differences. I really don't think this reads as town. This is too myopic.

As AP said, I know me, better than any other player knows themselves.

Great, but you're not the person you have to convince of your alignment.

Generally, a person being all over the place is a town player who hasn't gotten into their element, rather than a scum player lashing out at every possible target.

And what makes dopog a "generally" player?

Ignore the amount of words. BBMolla's never been much for elaborate wording.

I can get townreads on players with little content. Players are more than capable of being concise and brief and looking very town. DGB is probably the quintessential example of this. I don't always read her as town (not decided on her slot in this game yet), but she's always straight to the point.

You've got to have content that backs it up your reads though. Content doesn't just mean words, it means communicating your thoughts and ideas in a way that I can understand and appreciate, regardless of whether I agree with you or not. BB hasn't done this.

Majiffy and Sven are both scum.

For what it's worth, I'm not liking either of these players at the moment.

You're essentially townreading Rubicon because you're scumreading me. You might not think that's the case, but it is; your entire reasoning for having Rubicon as town basically resolves around me flipping scum.

No, you're right. I do not consider you two to both be scum, so that necessarily gives him a lot of town weight in my eyes.

ITT mastin is scum for making bad zombie puns in a zombie game.

mastin, don't point out your own jokes, ffs.

---

Heavily heavily heavily disagree.

Let me guess, because his meta is to be useless, right?

---

These are pretty boring reads, lets be honest.

Fair, but he also called out other people not on that list (not sure why they aren't).

---

RC's scumreading me for all the wrong reasons.

Smoker tongue: mastin2

---

So, on one hand, there are some players you'd like to see some pressure on.
But a null read of *the entire player base* is not one of them because, hey, that must be a scum counter wagon.
A counterwagon generated by...me and GiF...neither of whom you're calling scum.
Talk to me mastin.

:goodposting:

I like this entire post. Thor gets some townpoints.

---

Also, when have I ever really sheeped you?

When you made a goddamn flowchart telling the entire website to do so all day, everyday.

---

I'd be happy if you spoke about it now, since I don't know the theme and it would probably be helpful.

Honestly, it would be better to wait until we see some flips/night actions. I only have one small piece of the puzzle (my role), so it won't benefit us much for me to speculate. I just wanted to be on the record as being very familiar with the theme and capable of discussing it.

At the moment, I'm all that sold on Rubicon being scum.

You dodged my question though. :\

So they're both town?

---

Majiffy's 623 is solid.

---

AP your townread on PV bugs me, he's the lurking scum, the other scum are probably big names.

This is the best post you've made so far.

---

Not really seeing redcoyote just getting townread out of the wall

pssttt... you forgot the "because..." part in your post here.

---

I'm a little wary about townreading the hell out of redcoyote again on the basis of an awesome catch-up post.

*shrug*

I empirically do it as scum or town. I do it when I'm considerably behind to prove that I am reading the game and trying my best to read the game fairly OR to set the stage for my scum attacks.

---

RedCoyote, could you explain how you decided on the positions of Alpazard, Sven, SC, Peregine and BB in your ordering?

Yeah, sure, I'll try.

Alpazard and Sven I've explained are null reads of mine. That's why they're close to the middle of my scumscale. Their positions are still very fluid and may be changing as I read them more (Sven has deteriorated somewhat as of me writing this comment, for instance).

SC and Pere haven't done all that much to impress me. By now, they should've. chess especially has been particularly silent. I get the feeling like that hydra is arguing internally and is unsure where to make their moves. I really see that as more fitting of a scum role than a town one. BB has done next to nothing to convince me he's working to help the town. His comments have been forgetful and lacking in substance. That said, he just improved a bit, so now he's made a bit of change for the better.

---

Why? It looks surprisingly empty coming from notsci hydra

Agreed.

---

mastin is scum. this is too abrasive to be town mastin. mastin is all about working and interacting with other people. I can't see town-him ever telling people to go "straight to hell". not only that but he's implying RC is worse than a VI bc he's saying that was a scumhunting technique he used ever since he was a VI. not only that but he's being suspicious of RC without actually trying to figure anything out about his alignment and he instead writes him off as town. put two and two together and he's basically discrediting and downplaying the skill level of someone he thinks is town which is smth I could never see from someone who enjoys the humanity aspect o the game. the rest of the post is way too forceful and not similar at all to what I know of his towngame

Gosh, this is refreshing and original. This is really nice to see, this 180 from your slot. ffery is on board with this?

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he puts in work and he is a good player, very very bad day 1 lynch

No, I disagree. I disagree strongly. No player should be immune to lynching on D1 regardless of seniority or a subjective measure of "ability".

none of these players should have be townleans.

lolwut

You yourself gave me a townread a few pages prior to this in 497. Post count /= effort. Case in point: BBMolla. I could visit this website every 4-5 hours and say "mastin is scum", but I don't think that'll do a whole lot of good. Jumping to such a short-sighted conclusion is poor form, Sven.

---

Thirty pages and not one hint of game-decimating paranoia.

Oh, DGB................... I hate it when you are so right.

Don't let me forget I said this.

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Actually, I have a townread on Mastin, but I can understand how you could miss that, since it was eaten up by the thread.

Huh. Well, that changes things for the worse.

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AP your reaction to chessball was really bad

Agreed.

Dang, AP. You're letting these two punks take you down a peg!

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I'd be willing to OMGUS-lynch DGB today. Her reason for voting me is pretty bad.

It's actually pretty good. It's something I was going to be concerned about (I mentioned it in my wall), but you haven't done it so far. I don't know what to make of this. I should be scumreading you, buddy, but you're acting extremely rational. Too rational for AP to act.

---

As I said before, legitimately wondered what he was smoking in order to have created the train of thought that he did. I will not discredit RC as a player, because I respect his talent. I will discredit his reads, because they do not match the level that they should for him.

I appreciate that, but that's just not the impression I got after reading through the thread. I think you are hiding something, mastin. I think you are scum.

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ignored because, #lolbulba

I don't get this. I guess this is supposed to be an inside joke that I'm not in on.

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Do you really believe a scum player would shut you down that way, when a modicum of cooperation would probably deflect you?

What if a modicum of cooperation led to more questions that led to Sven catching more spotlight? What if the shutdown of Bulb led to Bulb doing more lurking (as he has been this game) and no one calling Sven on it? Also, Bulb has made it clear in this game that he intends not to play as aggressively as he usually does. Maybe Sven remembered that and thought he could push him around a bit, hm?

---

Gut?

I bet we could come up with 20 instances of the word "gut" so far in this thread. I'm not absolutely opposed to the concept, but it should be used rarely and it should carry a certain weight to it somehow. This does not meet that standard, AP.

I'm stopping for the night at the top of page 35. I'm really liking pieguy's comments. DGB says the right thing to win over my heart as is getting to become the norm. Good showings by Toog, pidgey, Thor, Majiffy, GIF, and BB from pages 17-35. Bad showings from Bulb, AP, Alpazard, AD, Sven, Zde, dopog, and mastin. vez drops from number 2 on my list, I think.

[Town]------Aegor-Toog-----Rubicon--pidgey-Thor----sekai-NC-Majiffy--Bulb--AP[∙]--GIF-SC-BB--Alpazard-Pere---AD--vez--Sven-Zde-dopog---mastin-----[Scum]

Pool of people I am happy to lynch: mastin, dopog, Zde, Sven, vez, AD, Pere, or Alpazard.

[RedCoyote]

Through my reading of the thread so far, as well as a look over all of Pere's activity in this game, I have no problem supporting this wagon.

UNVOTE: mastin2; VOTE: PeregrineV

I intend to catch up ground in the coming days, but I have no illusions about being able to influence the town toward my scum picks when I'm not fully caught up with the game nor sure whether or any later events would otherwise change my opinions. I can conclusively state that I am supportive of this wagon, however.

[RedCoyote]

By the by, Zde, whether or not I rate a player as more or less likely to be scum has more to do than just solely with my perception of them. Bear in mind I'm also doing the same thing with all other players. To wit, vez may or may not have done anything to make him look more townie and/or scummy, but other players may have (thus, these other players would move relative to vez).

[RedCoyote]

I just iso'd RC, he is definitely phoning it in.

You think that makes more more likely to be scum or town? Be honest.

[RedCoyote]

Wait, so Pere claimed to know that dopog was scum due to role information, but dopog was never wagoned?

[RedCoyote]

Eh, nevermind. I didn't see what I thought I saw. I just noticed his wagon collapsed because of a specific post that was pretty damning of dopog.

[RedCoyote]

Also, UNVOTE: PeregrineV; VOTE: mastin2

[RedCoyote]

Also, UNVOTE: PeregrineV; VOTE: mastin2

this is kinda really shitty though

although mastin might be scum

fuck ma life

I explained my mastin scumread a ways back. He's still my number one scumread, Pere was just an acceptable wagon. Since the wagon has collapsed, there is no need for me to have my vote there.

Look, I'm not going to bother spending the ~4 - 5 hours I would deem necessary to form an acceptable, caught-up and independent analysis of the game if I'm going to be lynched. I don't sign up for large games very often due to the fact that I am a slow starter with a sporadic posting style that tends to get lost in the shuffle. The Walking Dead has been brought up, a game where it took me nearly two weeks to become vested in given how large the thread got in such a short period of time. I think Abarat: Days of Magic, Nights of War, the last large theme I signed up for and received a town-aligned role, I had a comparable twelve posts in the first two weeks. Large games are intimidating to me, especially as town, but I will slowly and steadily work through them. For some, that may not be good enough.

I'm rambling. I'm not trying to throw a pity party here, but I just want to address the unspoken sentiment (or maybe it has been spoken) that I'm apathetic about the game. I am not apathetic; I'm just not the type of player that posts every 6 hours. I have every intention on having an independent voice in this game, but I acknowledge that I have been dragging my feet for the last couple of days given that my name has been thrown up as the D1 sacrificial lamb. I'm not sure anyone besides Zde has had strong scum reaction toward my posts so far (in fact, I know at least mastin, AP, and sekai are on record as saying they saw my posts as town), so to see my name as a serious lynch candidate is disappointing.

From where I'm sitting, if I am the eventual lynch, then what I've contributed so far is good enough. As a D1 mislynch, my posts would hold next-to-no value. My wagon would provide much more meat (or brains, if you will) anyway. The strong reads I have are that Aegor and Toog (LeMidget) are super town, and mastin is my number one scumread. If I am not the eventual lynch, then I will become more of a presence over time.

[RedCoyote]

Also, if I may rant a bit, the goalposts have been moved, guys. The memories I have of large games in '09 and '10 games I was in would total between 30 (!) and 84 pages. 84 pages for the entire game. 84 pages over the course of two months. Not 81 pages in two weeks.

I'm not saying this to come across as an old curmudgeon with a "back in my day..." story. I would just want y'all to appreciate that I have not kept up with the meteoric rise in activity expectations that has occurred on MS as well as others may have.

[RedCoyote]

This theme was simply too inciting, otherwise I wouldn't have.

I don't mind catching up. Again, I will get it done slowly but surely, but I'm not going to bother if I have no future in the game given that I've provided enough content to satisfy my own townie conscience. Please read this as matter-of-factly as possible. I want to stick around, but this isn't intended to be manipulative.

Additionally, the mastin wagon is larger than the AD wagon, Thor. It doesn't appear that even you're voting AD according to the last VC and your posts since.

[RedCoyote]

Thor is a cold SOB, Rubicon, that's for sure. I respect that though, because he treats everyone that way for the most part.

[RedCoyote]

How do you think he knew the role was in the game so he could lie about it?

You do understand the concept of fakeclaiming, right?

(Note: I think vez's claim is reasonable at the moment and would not support his lynch today.)

[RedCoyote]

Alright, Zde, what do you want from me? You're probably cool town, but then again I'm a sucker for anyone that will go against the grain when it's unpopular to do so. To reiterate, some reads you can bank on from me: Aegor and LeMidget are strong townreads of mine, mastin is a strong scumread of mine. Let vez play out, but I'm more inclined to believe him than not.

[RedCoyote]

Do you think the Mastin wagon actually holds water?

Yes, absolutely. mastin is my top scumread. I've stated that unequivocally over four times.

people are whining that they're on the death list for not participating...which, really shouldn't come as a shock to them. And the argument "but I'll eventually become useful at some indeterminant point in the future" just begs the question "then why aren't you being useful right now"

"Whining" is relative, then. I'm don't think I'm whining. I'm acknowledging the wagon on me, providing historical evidence of playing in a similar, belated way as town before, and asking the players to consider that evidence in relation to this game.

Like you, you're going to catch up? Really? Then why aren't you caught up now.

To reiterate, I have no inclination to spend several hours analyzing the game to wind up dead at the end of this phase. I do not think the potential benefit is worth the effort. I consider myself to have put more effort into this game overall than at least five other players, and I've given enough content to satisfy my own personal town standards of having a positive influence.

[RedCoyote]

Alright, Zde, what do you want from me? You're probably cool town, but then again I'm a sucker for anyone that will go against the grain when it's unpopular to do so. To reiterate, some reads you can bank on from me: Aegor and LeMidget are strong townreads of mine, mastin is a strong scumread of mine. Let vez play out, but I'm more inclined to believe him than not.

I was hoping for some rationale behind your ranking of players.

Did you have someone specific in mind? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just wouldn't want to sit here and rehash things I've already said. Like, you look at mastin's 560 or 61, and I see some really big red flags about the language he's using to try and rewrite history or say "RC is scumreading me for the wrong reasons", which is, to me, textbook scum mentality. It implies there are right reasons to scumread him?

[RedCoyote]

By the way,

Mod

, I don't know if we ever got this clarified about the mechanic, but I'm assuming you'll be taking all the lists of the infected players, adding them all together, and then for each mention of a specific name, that player gets one entry into the "pool" that you use random.org from? Like, for example:

Tim selects Billy, Jane, Fred
Zach selects Billy, John, Fred
John selects Billy, Jane, Tim
Billy and Jane are not infected so they have no votes

You'd do a random.org with, like, of 1 - 9. 1, 2, and 3 would kill Billy, 4 and 5 would kill Jane, 6 and 7 would kill Fred, 8 would kill John, and 9 would kill Tim. This is before any other PRs may affect the drawing in any way, of course. But that's more or less what the mechanic would act like, right?

[RedCoyote]

With dopog, I don't like how in 296 he votes Pere out of the blue. He had three posts up unto that point. He mentioned Pere only in his first post, asking him for clarification about a post he made. He never followed up on it.

In his 638, there was no real meat to it. I didn't like how he threw up that he didn't care for my posts in this game, but he doesn't take the time to explain why. I don't even need him to write a disseration on the subject, but he could at least say something like, "when RC said X, I thought he was being fake because look at Y". He just says he doesn't "see" the townread. That's not good enough. It sounds like he's just putting something out there for its own sake. His articulation of his Pere vote was also pretty poor. Remember that I said scum would use the missing posts to their advantage, well, here were have dopog saying that Pere is scum for "a couple posts of his before the downtime".

I would suspect him strongly.

[RedCoyote]

With dopog, I don't like how in 296 he votes Pere out of the blue. He had three posts up unto that point. He mentioned Pere only in his first post, asking him for clarification about a post he made. He never followed up on it.

In his 638, there was no real meat to it. I didn't like how he threw up that he didn't care for my posts in this game, but he doesn't take the time to explain why. I don't even need him to write a disseration on the subject, but he could at least say something like, "when RC said X, I thought he was being fake because look at Y". He just says he doesn't "see" the townread. That's not good enough. It sounds like he's just putting something out there for its own sake. His articulation of his Pere vote was also pretty poor. Remember that I said scum would use the missing posts to their advantage, well, here were have dopog saying that Pere is scum for "a couple posts of his before the downtime".

I would suspect him strongly.

So in your reads list, why was he listed as scummier than Vezok?

Because the posts he's made led me to a stronger scumread than the one I had one vez.

[RedCoyote]

Can you explain his Pere vote?

[RedCoyote]

gg all! gj, scumteam.

Mod, you did a terrific job. I really wish I'd have gotten to play this longer. I loved the mechanic/setup and still do.