Left 4 Dead Mafia! (Game Over!)

Zdenek · Post Post #157 (isolation #0) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:55 am

In post 108, Rubicon wrote:
In post 29, BBmolla wrote:Scum claim = policy lynch, no way am I letting site meta drift that way
I think you're too late on that one.

In post 80, BBmolla wrote:Not you, I just can't lynch all these people claiming scum and there is actually town amongst them and that is really depressing
How do you know there's town among them? Which of them do you think it is?

In post 53, mastin2 wrote:This is a legitimate scumclaim, rather than Aegor's faked scumclaim, because it's taking the fun but instead of running with it (voting Aegor), he takes this approach, to avoid drawing attention to himself. Especially since Aegor (having self-voted first) would take the brunt of the blow. It's scum trying to blend in during the RVS, while also trying to avoid becoming part of something they'd rather avoid. (For instance, if Aegor got wagoned to, say, L-1, it'd be something a scum-Rubicon would want to be off of like the plague.)
You make good points and I like the cut of your jib.

In post 55, SweatingChessball3 wrote:Rubicon is town. Thanks, mastin.
I can't put my finger on it but I get the strong impression DGB is town.

In post 99, Nero Cain wrote:Mastin is scum so you come in and try to discredit me by calling me scum, you are a totes Mastin buddy
You're probably not serious but I could see a mastin2 and BBmolla as both scum at this point on the grounds that they were both being weirdly serious in RVS: mastin2 for example, "I was the third-to-last to confirm; does that make me scum, too?" and his thing about me. BBmolla making a big deal about policy lynching people for claiming scum, exaggerated irritation with it, etc.

VOTE: mastin2

This post is a scum-claim.

Vote: Rubicon

Zdenek · Post Post #163 (isolation #1) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:27 am

In post 115, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 111, BBmolla wrote:Bulba what you got so far
Crippling insecurities.

This hardly seems like something you would say.

Zdenek · Post Post #165 (isolation #2) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:34 am

In post 123, PeregrineV wrote:
Vote: SweatingChessball

Because based on my last 2 games with you both, you probably won't be around tomorrow.

If you somehow are, we may revisit this.

Shouldn't you be doing the opposite of voting them them?

It just seems like you've lost your mind. I mean why are you helping them to not be here tomorrow?

Zdenek · Post Post #166 (isolation #3) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:36 am

In post 154, Alpazard wrote:Valentyndra

Who is this?

Zdenek · Post Post #168 (isolation #4) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:40 am

In post 162, Alpazard wrote:On one hand 108 does sound kind of stiff

You should probably just vote him for now, and trust that good things will happen.

Zdenek · Post Post #173 (isolation #5) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:52 am

In post 172, Bulbazak wrote:What would I say?

Something (over-)confident or (over-)aggressive. You must know this about yourself.

Zdenek · Post Post #177 (isolation #6) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:56 am

Bulbazak, you don't feel confident or aggressive because Mastin called you an a-hole?

Zdenek · Post Post #184 (isolation #7) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:27 am

In post 182, Rubicon wrote:
In post 157, Zdenek wrote:This post is a scum-claim.
I think you're confused, the scum claim was in my first post.

Mastin referring to my vote as OMGUS is definitely not making me feel better about her.

I'm more worried about Mastin not picking up on your sarcasm.

Zdenek · Post Post #186 (isolation #8) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:38 am

Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him.

Zdenek · Post Post #191 (isolation #9) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:01 am

Bulba is probably scum.

Zdenek · Post Post #193 (isolation #10) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:02 am

In post 192, Aegor wrote:
In post 190, Alpazard wrote:What are people thinking of Bulba so far?
Pretty sure he is town unless his claim was fake.

He claimed?

Zdenek · Post Post #197 (isolation #11) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:04 am

There is no claim in Bulba's ISO.

Zdenek · Post Post #206 (isolation #12) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:31 am

I don't want to talk about the mechanic too much just yet.

Zdenek · Post Post #254 (isolation #13) » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:01 pm

AP, SCB3, are hitting nice notes.
Aegor, BBmolla, look town.

Zdenek · Post Post #381 (isolation #14) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:18 am

Did you even explain your read on Vezok?

Zdenek · Post Post #383 (isolation #15) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:39 am

Where's the game and what is your point?

Zdenek · Post Post #474 (isolation #16) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:36 pm

I remembered something else,

Alpazard, who is Valentyndra and what have you done that you think is alignment relevant?

Also, Toogeloo should go read another of my games.

In post 386, Svenskt Stål wrote:
In post 381, Zdenek wrote:Did you even explain your read on Vezok?
#magic

step to me

Indeed, I see my vote's vanished.

Vote: Svenskt

In post 393, Svenskt Stål wrote:it is a lazy wagon because i had done nothing up to that point

That's why it's an awesome wagon.

And your further posting is why we should just lynch you now.

Mastin, 397, stop being boring. 409, no you're just scum being transparent about things that don't matter.

Zdenek · Post Post #477 (isolation #17) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:39 pm

What changed your mind?

Zdenek · Post Post #480 (isolation #18) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:52 pm

In post 478, Toogeloo wrote:What makes you think I still don't want your lynch?

Bulba was the only person who even glanced at my vote (other than you), meaning no one really cared about it.

Switching gears now.

Nothing, but that's not what I'm asking about.

Zdenek · Post Post #481 (isolation #19) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm

In post 479, Toogeloo wrote:By the way, the reason your iso is shit to me is that all you do is make little side commentary and ask little questions without resolutions. You haven't posited any theories in regards to those questions, and your scum hunting is essentially, "Yup, this person is scum!"

I just skimmed my ISO and that's pretty clearly false. I mean I might do that some of the time, when what I'm talking about is pretty obvious. Is there something that you're curious about?

Zdenek · Post Post #482 (isolation #20) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:58 pm

and as far as questions not having resolutions, it's not really my fault that PV is a lunatic.

Zdenek · Post Post #484 (isolation #21) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:04 pm

Do you seriously have a problem with each of those posts?

Zdenek · Post Post #486 (isolation #22) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:09 pm

What is your problem with this?

In post 483, Toogeloo wrote:"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."

Zdenek · Post Post #488 (isolation #23) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:19 pm

In post 483, Toogeloo wrote:"This post is a scum-claim."

"This hardly seems like something you would say."

"Shouldn't you be doing the opposite of voting them them? It just seems like you've lost your mind. I mean why are you helping them to not be here tomorrow?"

"Who is this?"

"You should probably just vote him for now, and trust that good things will happen."

"Something (over-)confident or (over-)aggressive. You must know this about yourself."

"Bulbazak, you don't feel confident or aggressive because Mastin called you an a-hole?"

"I'm more worried about Mastin not picking up on your sarcasm."

"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."

"Bulba is probably scum."

"He claimed?"

"There is no claim in Bulba's ISO."

"I don't want to talk about the mechanic too much just yet."

"AP, SCB3, are hitting nice notes. Aegor, BBmolla, look town."

"Did you even explain your read on Vezok?"

"Where's the game and what is your point?"

Plus there was the comment about Sven looking like Caught Scum.

This is the entirety of your iso (that is available) when I voted you. It just goes on like this. Little side commentaries and fluff questions filled with lots of quote blocks. It's the type of content that scum do to look active.

1. Rubicon's post is a scum-claim because he was questioning someone having town reads in a group of players that contained him.

2. I've played with Bulbazak he is usually over-confident and aggressive. So him saying that he has crippling doubt is surprising.

3. Peregrine's reason is fucking stupid.

4. If someone is talking about a player and I don't know who it is, I am going to ask about it.

5. I was encouraging someone to help with a wagon early in the game. They are useful.

6. Addressed above.

7. Talking with Bulbazak about his change in play.

8. Mastin missing obvious sarcasm indicates that he's not reading carefully. For some players it wouldn't bother me, but with Mastin, it makes me think that he's not trying to read people.

9. I really don't see why you're complaining about this.

10. Bulba moved his vote to Aegor presumably for Aegor talking about being willing to end the day, which is a boilerplate reason for scum reading someone.

11. If someone talks about a claim that I don't see, I'm going to ask about it.

12. same topic.

13. I didn't want to talk about the mechanic yet, so laa dee daw.

14. AP and SCB3 were hitting nice notes. SBC3: reading GiF as town, BB as town, Mastin as scum, Svensk, PV as scum. AP: Mastin as scum, SB3 as town, Aegor as town, Rubicon's suspicious post. Aegor looked town because of the discussion about Bulbazak, and BBmolla seemed townish early for pushing policy lynches.

15. I think that Svensk is scum pushing BS, and I'm going to question him on it.

16. How can I understand what SnK is talking about if I don't know what game they are referring to and why.

17. I can't help it, if you can't read posts very well.

Now what the fuck is your problem?

Zdenek · Post Post #489 (isolation #24) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:20 pm

In post 487, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 486, Zdenek wrote:What is your problem with this?
In post 483, Toogeloo wrote:"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."
Are you really trying to defend your entire iso because of the one post that actually looks like content?

Nope. It just sprung out to me as something that shouldn't have been on your list.

Zdenek · Post Post #490 (isolation #25) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:22 pm

and I still want you to explain why you changed your vote

Zdenek · Post Post #491 (isolation #26) » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:28 pm

Actually, I don't care anymore. No scum would want to set themselves up to defend that pile of horse crap.

Zdenek · Post Post #502 (isolation #27) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:09 am

In post 494, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 489, Zdenek wrote:Nope. It just sprung out to me as something that shouldn't have been on your list.
Toogeloo wrote:This is the entirety of your iso
I wasn't kidding.

And all you did was justify the posts for the reason you made them, when my issue is with
the way
that you actually aren't backing up anything and just posting a bunch of nothing important en masse.

You're guilty of very asymmetrical scum hunting here.

Zdenek · Post Post #511 (isolation #28) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:12 am

In post 507, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 502, Zdenek wrote:You're guilty of very asymmetrical scum hunting here.
So I can't say I don't like your posts as a whole simply because one post in the bunch is ok?

No, I think you are calling me scum for something that many people are doing.

Zdenek · Post Post #578 (isolation #29) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:00 am

In post 492, RedCoyote wrote:I'd like to talk about actual theme stuff, but I guess that can wait until D2.

I'd be happy if you spoke about it now, since I don't know the theme and it would probably be helpful.

Zdenek · Post Post #579 (isolation #30) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:03 am

In post 495, RedCoyote wrote:Do you think Rubicon and mastin are scum together?

At the moment, I'm all that sold on Rubicon being scum. Mainly because while he was under attack, he defended PV, who's usually a pretty easy target for a counter-wagon.

Zdenek · Post Post #597 (isolation #31) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:15 am

In post 584, Majiffy wrote:
In post 579, Zdenek wrote:
In post 495, RedCoyote wrote:Do you think Rubicon and mastin are scum together?
At the moment, I'm all that sold on Rubicon being scum. Mainly because while he was under attack, he defended PV, who's usually a pretty easy target for a counter-wagon.
I don't think A meets B meets C here. Or otherwise I am thoroughly confused.

The only interpretation I can make that makes any semblance of sense is you linking a bunch of players to alignments based on associatives of unflipped players, which is arguably one of the worst methods of scumhunting ever partaken.

Eh, not really. The only two players that are linked at all in that are Rubicon and Peregrine. Scum Rubicon probably doesn't defend either town-Peregrine (probably a viable counter-wagon) or scum-Peregrine (no reason to risk associative tells defending a buddy at that moment).

Zdenek · Post Post #602 (isolation #32) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:23 am

In post 599, Majiffy wrote:So I don't understand why Rubi's actions are at all telling of PV's alignment or even his own with this really bad associative position.

So we're back to me being confused about your bumfuck do-nothing scumhunting.

Try reading the discussion again. Hint: I'm not saying anything about PV's alignment.

Zdenek · Post Post #645 (isolation #33) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:47 am

In post 495, RedCoyote wrote:You spend this entire post talking about Bulb and then you vote Pere? Why didn't you mention anything about Pere? This vote is really awkward.

If one of them flipped scum, I would instantly lynch the other.

Zdenek · Post Post #647 (isolation #34) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:49 am

In post 635, Rubicon wrote:Z, I'm still curious why you read BBmolla as town. I'm open to the idea, but there doesn't really seem to be anything in his ISO to point that direction.

I said why, at least earlier in the game. I've haven't really thought about him since. I'll get back to you when I'm done reading.

Zdenek · Post Post #653 (isolation #35) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:59 am

RedCoyote, could you explain how you decided on the positions of Alpazard, Sven, SC, Peregine and BB in your ordering?

Zdenek · Post Post #662 (isolation #36) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:16 pm

In post 514, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 511, Zdenek wrote:
In post 507, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 502, Zdenek wrote:You're guilty of very asymmetrical scum hunting here.
So I can't say I don't like your posts as a whole simply because one post in the bunch is ok?
No, I think you are calling me scum for something that many people are doing.
Yours is what stuck to me. Don't be butt hurt. No one else's spotty posting has pinged my radar in the same manner. It's Day 1, gut rules, and you hurt my gut.

That was really your cue to talk about one of these other people.

Zdenek · Post Post #672 (isolation #37) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:46 pm

In post 537, mastin2 wrote:I'm pretty dang certain that this is a town-RC.

How did you get to this?

Zdenek · Post Post #674 (isolation #38) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:49 pm

In post 673, mastin2 wrote:
In post 672, Zdenek wrote:How did you get to this?
Because, like AP, I read the wall in its entirety, and it comes from a town-RC, not a scum-RC. (Begrudgingly.) It's the same him from Walking Dead.

I read it in its entirety and then I got to his list, but we'll see what comes of that.

Zdenek · Post Post #692 (isolation #39) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:18 pm

In post 545, vezokpiraka wrote:He is way too cocky and proud to be scum. If he was scum he'd think in another way.

Do you have meta on this? I don't think that it is true in general.

GiF, why are you town reading me?

Zdenek · Post Post #698 (isolation #40) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:39 pm

GiF, what about this then, why did you post the reads-list and why do you give out town-reads?

Zdenek · Post Post #700 (isolation #41) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:41 pm

In post 621, Rubicon wrote:479 by Toog basically mirrors what I'd been wanting to say re: the wasteland of dull & obvious questions in Zdenek's ISO that he never bothers to follow up on.

Thinking about how Z played in Jason's Doctor Who large theme, it was noticably different (more insightful, better pokes at people).

What other ISOs have you read and what do you think of them?

Zdenek · Post Post #734 (isolation #42) » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:54 pm

Unvote
Vote: Bulbazak

He notices that Mastin has a gut town read on someone who hasn't posted yet, has since not mentioned a read on Mastin, but has defended Mastin's reads, and he's been voting other people.
Basically, with the strength of read on Mastin that he should have picked up from the first observation, he should be exhibiting much more suspicion of Mastin than he is.

Frankly I think this is because he's buddies with Mastin and doesn't want to bus, but it's scummy in it's own right.

Zdenek · Post Post #973 (isolation #43) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:33 am

Currently reading. Will post soon.

Zdenek · Post Post #975 (isolation #44) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:38 am

I don't understand BBmolla's vote on PV, since Molla is scum reading Sven and it followed some posts by PV pushing on Sven.

Zdenek · Post Post #984 (isolation #45) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:53 am

Unvote
Vote Alpazard

Zdenek · Post Post #985 (isolation #46) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:58 am

Alpazard's ISO gives me nothing, so I'm totally down with lynching them. Vezok's ISO and specifically his take on DGB drives me crazy and I'm also not that sure I believe what he is saying. Unfortunately, I don't know him well enough to tell if he believes some of the things he is saying, but my gut on that says no.

Zdenek · Post Post #987 (isolation #47) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:11 am

Vezok, why do you think that you can read DGB?

Zdenek · Post Post #989 (isolation #48) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:56 am

hmmm?

In post 762, vezokpiraka wrote:She shows her true colors later on and it's pretty easy to see scum DGB.

Zdenek · Post Post #990 (isolation #49) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:33 am

I've looked through Vezok's old games. There doesn't seem to be any justification for that statement. So he's just full-of-shit, scum.

Unvote
Vote: Vezok

Zdenek · Post Post #992 (isolation #50) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:38 am

but you've never successfully read her this way, is that correct?

Zdenek · Post Post #1021 (isolation #51) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:29 pm

In post 993, RedCoyote wrote:I'm here. I was waiting until the old posts were put back in place before making another post... I feel very uncomfortable that there's a part of the game that's missing but is slated to just "reappear" at some indefinite time. Frankly, I'd rather have it just completely wiped altogether since it was only like 12 - 24 hours or something like that.

In any case, will be making another wall soon, I suppose. It's not that I'm not interested in the game, but I was going to wait until Saturday and just catch up again so I could do it all in one sitting with the missing posts back.

Considering 20 pages have gone by since the posts were deleted, you've apparently been reading (or what does not not interested mean?) and you're not answering questions, this is devoid of town-motivation.

Zdenek · Post Post #1023 (isolation #52) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:32 pm

Why are you answering questions for me?

Zdenek · Post Post #1025 (isolation #53) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:35 pm

In post 1007, Aegor wrote:
In post 985, Zdenek wrote:
Alpazard's ISO gives me nothing, so I'm totally down with lynching them.
Vezok's ISO and specifically his take on DGB drives me crazy and I'm also not that sure I believe what he is saying. Unfortunately, I don't know him well enough to tell if he believes some of the things he is saying, but my gut on that says no.
Surely that reasoning applies to other players as well. Which others have ISOs that give you nothing?

It's true that I only checked Alp because he was a topic of conversation, but I don't think anyone is as bad as him.
Who do you have in mind?

Zdenek · Post Post #1027 (isolation #54) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:36 pm

In post 1022, Svenskt Stål wrote:
In post 1007, Aegor wrote:
In post 985, Zdenek wrote:
Alpazard's ISO gives me nothing, so I'm totally down with lynching them.
Vezok's ISO and specifically his take on DGB drives me crazy and I'm also not that sure I believe what he is saying. Unfortunately, I don't know him well enough to tell if he believes some of the things he is saying, but my gut on that says no.
Surely that reasoning applies to other players as well. Which others have ISOs that give you nothing?
i assumed he chacked alp cuz alp is a contender for lynch

Zdenek · Post Post #1029 (isolation #55) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:38 pm

What the fuck?

Zdenek · Post Post #1031 (isolation #56) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:40 pm

You should probably carefully explain what is going through your mind in your next post.

Zdenek · Post Post #1033 (isolation #57) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:42 pm

It would be better if you would answer questions that people ask you instead.

Zdenek · Post Post #1035 (isolation #58) » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:06 pm

There is no way I am going through everyone's ISO now, but I am also pretty sure that no one is as bad as him, so I'm quite happy with this.
Why are you defending Alpa on an issue that you have no opinion?

Zdenek · Post Post #1046 (isolation #59) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:20 am

I don't remember. Probably. I don't think he looks as bad now as he did.

Zdenek · Post Post #1047 (isolation #60) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:23 am

In post 1036, Aegor wrote:I am not defending Alpa. In fact, I would not mind his lynch at all.

If you're happy with Alpa's lynch, why are you engaging in this line of questioning?

Zdenek · Post Post #1054 (isolation #61) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:59 am

Dopog explained exactly what I'm doing so nicely. Dopog, I can't force people to post and I can't predict if someone will say something scummy when I ask then about something. I'm still trying to b get a feel for some of the people in this game, and so far there is no one who I especially want to lynch.

Zdenek · Post Post #1058 (isolation #62) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:33 am

In post 1056, SweatingChessball3 wrote:
In post 1050, dopog wrote:Thinking Zdenek is scum as well. Not feeling any real work on his part to discover who is scum and more kind of arbitrary "ok let's push here for a while stuff" and then "nope not gaining any traction with this we'll scumread them now". Also if a question gets answered he kinda just follows up on that person (ok) but in contrast if they don't answer then it just disappears. What I'm saying; Zdenek's pushes don't feel real.
I agree with this. I almost always read Zdenek town. I don't here. That's huge alarm bells.

You failed in Dr. Who mafia.

Zdenek · Post Post #1060 (isolation #63) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:43 am

No, I'm just pointing out that you've been wrong before.

Zdenek · Post Post #1064 (isolation #64) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:00 am

In post 1063, Bulbazak wrote:Why not?

He went from doing nothing to doing something.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:15 am

Probscum:

RedCoyote: his unwillingness to post seems deliberately anti-town. His read on BBmolla (3rd place scum) and the reasons that he gave don't make sense in the context of his other reads.

Pidgey: he attempts to create a false dichotomy between Sven and Bulbazak.

Sekai no Ki (Fferyllt/Pieguyn Hydra): pieguy's catch-up post is horrible. I can't imagine anyone writing that and thinking that it's going to produce interactions or convey an understanding of his stances.

Lurking scum are Peregrine and Alpazard.

Vezok is going to drive me nuts, but I guess that's life.

Unvote
Vote: RedCoyote

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:17 am

In post 1083, Bulbazak wrote:He's still refusing to answer questions.

Indeed. He might be scum for it or stubborn/difficult town.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:38 am

I also don't just think that RC is lurking. I think that he is deliberately using the loss of posts as an excuse to not post.
We have a week, so I don't feel the need to vote for someone who can definitely be lynched yet.

Zdenek · Post Post #1107 (isolation #68) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:39 pm

In post 1101, dopog wrote:Now I don't even know what zdenek's read on vezok is anymore.....

He's far enough down my list of concerns that I no longer care about him.

Zdenek · Post Post #1110 (isolation #69) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:51 pm

I didn't dodge your question, you asked me if I thought two people were buddies, me saying that I don't think that one of them is scum is a no.

Do you think that scum-Mastin, gives a fake gut town read on his scum-buddy dopog?
Personally, I think that if Mastin is scum, that slip basically tells us that dopog is town.

Zdenek · Post Post #1112 (isolation #70) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:02 pm

Vezok who RC, aside from Mastin, argues most strongly against in his posts appears highest in list before we get to the lurkers. The only particular thing he had a problem with regarding Sven seems to be that Sven gave him a town lean in one post and then said that no one should be giving those a players a town lean. Well okay, it's not a lie, but its pretty clear that Sven just went to Activity Overview and made a list of low posters - it's thoughtless, but I don't see enough scum intent there to justify RC's stance. As far as I can tell his desire to lynch me is an attempt to buddy with Toogeloo, but I'm biased. He doesn't give any reason to read dopog as scum, so I assume that has to do with lolzy connections with Mastin. As far as his read on Mastin goes, the fact that it lacks any subtlety probably means that it's bs.

Zdenek · Post Post #1113 (isolation #71) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:03 pm

WOO HOO! SCUM CAUGHT!

Zdenek · Post Post #1114 (isolation #72) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:05 pm

I also conjecture that after AP shared that little gem of pushing easy lynches meta RC moved Vez and Alpa's names up the list a bit, which is what got him into all this trouble.

Zdenek · Post Post #1115 (isolation #73) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:06 pm

Well, or he's buddies with at least one of them.

Zdenek · Post Post #1119 (isolation #74) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:44 pm

RC is quite obviously scum, and you should vote him.

Zdenek · Post Post #1121 (isolation #75) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:49 pm

In post 1120, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1119, Zdenek wrote:RC is quite obviously scum, and you should vote him.
I think you need to reassess your reads. They've been getting progressively worse.

Why are you town reading him?

Zdenek · Post Post #1122 (isolation #76) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:55 pm

You also don't seem to have a stated read on snk and you seem to be town reading pidgey, but you don't say why.

Zdenek · Post Post #1125 (isolation #77) » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:46 pm

In post 1124, Bulbazak wrote:Because I don't think he'd be playing like this as scum.

The way that he's playing doesn't ring any not-scum-bells for me.

For scumminess it's hard to beat the fact that his scum listing from vez down doesn't track with his commentary. The fact that this can be explained by him trying to avoid the meta issue that AP pointed out is really icing on the cake.

Zdenek · Post Post #1147 (isolation #78) » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:07 am

In post 1132, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 1126, Bulbazak wrote:He comes across as really genuine to me, although horribly misguided.
Pretty much.

I kind expect this sort of thing from Bulbazak, but when I point out how someone isn't genuine, you telling me that they are, isn't an appropriate response.

In post 1133, GuyInFreezer wrote:I dont see sekai scum everything they posted is very town

So what do you think they posted that they couldn't duplicate as scum?

In post 1140, sekai no ki wrote:
In post 1135, GuyInFreezer wrote:Also the ironic part is that my sekai read ks based on pieguy not fery
Why look at hard-to-read-fery when you have easy-to-read-pieguy
Oh bullshit. You spotted scum-me with like 1 post in ny 167.

What do you think of RC? What do you think about what I had to say about RC?

Zdenek · Post Post #1149 (isolation #79) » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:26 am

In post 1148, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 1147, Zdenek wrote:So what do you think they posted that they couldn't duplicate as scum?
pie's effort

I don't think that I've played with pieguy before, what games are you using for comparison?
Do you have a non-meta reason for town reading them?

Zdenek · Post Post #1157 (isolation #80) » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:34 am

In post 1155, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 1125, Zdenek wrote:For scumminess it's hard to beat the fact that his scum listing from vez down doesn't track with his commentary. The fact that this can be explained by him trying to avoid the meta issue that AP pointed out is really icing on the cake.
I'm not seeing this?

He has Vezok as one of his lesser scumreads. He didn't say much about him but he did quote me making points against Vezok and said it made sense.

So I dunno. I definitely don't get why you think this Vezok thing is so BIG.

Now compare what he says/quotes about Sven, me and dopog with what he says/qutoes about Vezok and look at the ordering of his list.

What makes you think that he's been genuine?

Zdenek · Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:11 am

In post 1161, AngryPidgeon wrote:IDK, my overall feel from his wall is that he's intent on tunneling on mastin and his other scumreads are less interesting to him. He definitely prodded Sven a bit (even if he didn't outright call him scum). I don't really see where his read on you is coming from and iirc dopog was also not explained that well. But neither was the Vezok read?

I see why this looks scummy to you (and I -could- see this coming from scum), but I really don't think its as bad as you are saying?

I see someone tunneling on mastin and catching up on posts without really having an agenda in mind (other than the tunnel on mastin). Him being behind and just focusing mastin as an easy way to be involved could be a scum thing, but I could also see this being from town.

I guess I am surprised that his read on mastin isn't nuanced at all.
His read on Vezok was explained - RC agreed with Sven's argument against Vezok. There may have been some other stuff too.
When I read look at his scum reads, they seem to me to come with an agenda: He's moved Vezok, Alpa down the list to avoid being accused to pursuing easy lynches - this stands out because the points he raises against Vezok are stronger than those raised against the others on his list, aside from mastin. I also think that his scum read on me is an attempt to buddy with Toogeloo, since Toogeloo's case against was so very stupid, but I'm biased on that front.
The fact that can't grok where his reads on Sven and dopog are coming from, just makes me think that he's pulling those reads out of his ass.
It's really beyond me how he came up with so many people that he's happy to lynch today.

Zdenek · Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:17 am

What's your read on RC?

Zdenek · Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:31 am

Sekai,

In post 1147, Zdenek wrote:What do you think of RC? What do you think about what I had to say about RC?

Zdenek · Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:13 pm

So Alpazard is probably town.

Zdenek · Post Post #1352 (isolation #85) » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:03 pm

Indeed.

You are all encouraged to wagon the scum RedCoyote.

Zdenek · Post Post #1362 (isolation #86) » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:01 pm

I approve.

Unvote
Vote: PV

Zdenek · Post Post #1425 (isolation #87) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:10 am

In post 1364, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1362, Zdenek wrote:I approve.

Unvote
Vote: PV
The Red Coyote wagon is better methinks.

Me too, but I can't get anyone over there, so wagon a-hoy!

Zdenek · Post Post #1427 (isolation #88) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:13 am

In post 1373, Aegor wrote:
In post 1318, PeregrineV wrote:
Vote: DrppingSweatBall

Let's give the man time to post coherently.
Where was that enthusiasm when I was voting SCB?

VOTE: PV

How are these things related?

Zdenek · Post Post #1433 (isolation #89) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:36 am

In post 1419, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1389, Majiffy wrote:I don't find it hard to understand, I just find it dumb.
You know what's dumb?
Ignoring that I've had a vote in play when trying to cut a deal about people and acting like my vig list is also my top scum list when I was voting elsewhere when I made said list.
Derpa.

@Everyone

Since I'm the only one talking about it.
Does ANYONE have an issue with this as the Vig list;

ActionDan
or
Vezok

Speak up now or I'll just assume everyone agrees with me and hold you accountable to that idea.

Well, first of all we have to list three names. Having us agree to all put one or the other down, won't necessarily help that much since there could be some other person who ends up on everyone's list. Perhaps that's fine, but I think we should try to use the kill somewhat strategically even if it is partially random.

For instance, if the person we lynch flips town, then we should

all

put the name of the next largest wagon down or the name of someone under a competing wagon during the day. That will make it more likely that person is killed in the night, and is the sort of thing that will provide us with the most information, even if we ned up with a town flip. We can pick exactly who that person is closer to the end of the day. We could even have secondary unofficial voting to decide on who it is.

As far as the other two votes go, my initial temptation is to say that they should be determined individually and without organization. This will reduce the the chance that they will interfere with the strategic choice and if they happen to at least we've eliminated someone who (most likely) a large number of people find suspicious.

Zdenek · Post Post #1438 (isolation #90) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:48 am

Why are you refusing to look at Red Coyote?

Zdenek · Post Post #1439 (isolation #91) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:50 am

In post 1436, Aegor wrote:And he could have voted SCB when others were voting SCB instead of placing a completely useless vote.

Which vote?

Zdenek · Post Post #1444 (isolation #92) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:55 am

In post 1440, Aegor wrote:
In post 1439, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1436, Aegor wrote:And he could have voted SCB when others were voting SCB instead of placing a completely useless vote.
Which vote?
His vote on SCB. Which came after AP and I, who had both expressed desire for more SCB votes, moved onto the Alpa and then PV wagons.

So you approve of the vote, but not the timing of it, and you think that he's scum for not leaving his vote on Alpa?

Because that's what I'm getting from your comment.

Zdenek · Post Post #1455 (isolation #93) » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:17 am

I'm pretty sure that we should try to use the NK effectively until that doesn't work.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:06 am

In post 1486, Bulbazak wrote:RC is town.

You get one post to carefully explain this or I am going to assume that you're reading him this way because you're scum and he's not in your QT.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:07 am

Saying that he seems genuine definitely doesn't cut it.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:10 am

Also, you should explain why you were okay with Aegor outing that you breadcrumbed something.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:12 am

Patience, we might have to lynch Bulbazak.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:30 am

In post 1494, AngryPidgeon wrote:I don't see why Bulbazak having sketch reads is a reason to be suspicious of him.

It's not the only reason I'm suspicious of him.
Plus you're saying things like I'm not feeling RC, but Bulba is proclaiming him to be town.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:36 am

I think this you are completely wrong about RC.

In post 1501, Bulbazak wrote:Because that's how I know he's town. That's the only way he could have known what I was saying.

Ok.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:39 am

My current list of people who are likely scum are almost all people who are going to be nigh on impossible to lynch today, which is rather depressing.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:13 am

In post 1523, BBmolla wrote:
In post 1504, Zdenek wrote:My current list of people who are likely scum are almost all people who are going to be nigh on impossible to lynch today, which is rather depressing.
Who?

Pidgey, RC, SnK.
SCBK3 doesn't look great, but idk.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:52 pm

AP can you walk me through your read on Vezok? Or even just direct me to some sign posts in either your or Vezok's ISOs?

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:58 pm

In post 1554, dopog wrote:Still don't know where zdenek's stuff is coming from.

Which stuff would that be deary?

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:58 pm

Bulba and Aegor are absolutely not to be on the list.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:02 pm

If we lynch town (vezok or PV)? then the other should certainly be on the list.
If another wagon springs up, this is subject to change.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:03 pm

Hell, if we lynch town Alpazard is a good choice to be on the list too.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:05 pm

I still think that we should not specify all three people who everyone votes, so that we can try to use it as a targeted vig for one person that everyone votes.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:32 pm

AP,

In post 1550, Zdenek wrote:AP can you walk me through your read on Vezok? Or even just direct me to some sign posts in either your or Vezok's ISOs?

Zdenek · Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:27 pm

In post 1511, mastin2 wrote:The fact that GiF sheeps the person he was previously scumreading should itself be a warning sign.

I think this is a good point.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:13 am

We should take Vezok off the list.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:55 am

Unvote

brb

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:02 am

- Rubicon might be scum for hard defending Aegor, but not Bulbazak. The only reason I can see to defend Aegor like that is because of their interactions. It makes me think that he's faking understanding what was going on.

- GiF is a pretty good bet for scum because of the turn around on Alpa.

- Alpa is still not a bad choice for scum, which is unfortunate considering the above.

- There's always good old RC!

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:04 am

ISOing Rubicon, the defense of Nero Cain that he just made kind of make me not want to lynch him.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:05 am

Vote: GuyInFreezer

Down?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:06 am

In post 1744, sekai no ki wrote:nope.

Vote someone.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:14 am

In post 1749, sekai no ki wrote:
In post 1746, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1744, sekai no ki wrote:nope.
Vote someone.

VOTE: Mastin

One sentence why I should vote him?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:20 am

In post 1771, AngryPidgeon wrote:Thor, if mastin2 gets lynched and flips Mafia, I will sheep you onto RC. I'll get him horde killed tonight.
(This is further encouragement for votes on mastin2 : P)

and if he flips town, you'll sheep me onto RC?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:25 am

A mastin scum flip would mean sekai no ki prob town, which would be nice.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:01 am

In post 1777, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 1775, Zdenek wrote:A mastin scum flip would mean sekai no ki prob town, which would be nice.
Meh. I'd rather just powerlynch Dopog/RC after a mastin scumflip and then recalibrate after that.

why dopog?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:07 am

Mastin, why do you still have a scum read on Rubicon?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:14 am

The second sentence is about the observation in the first one.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:49 am

snk, your Bulbazak read makes no sense.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:52 am

I'd rather if you explained it to me.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:21 pm

In post 541, mastin2 wrote:Random note--I feel like Alpa's the replacement-counterwagon to the scum-Sven wagon. Vezok didn't gain momentum because having me defend a player will typically have that effect. So, instead of wagoning a townread, they wagon a nullread--not just of me, but of most players, so that there is very little resistance against the wagon, and that the wagons on scum players like Rubicon and Sven and Majiffy are completely and entirely forgotten.

This was BS since Mastin had a town read on Thor and Peregrine - the two people who joined the Alpa wagon (aside from GiF who was on it before.)

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:53 pm

Mastin, what similarities are you seeing between RC in this game and Walking Dead?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:10 pm

In post 1835, mastin2 wrote:Thought I already explained it. If not, then I'll have to do so later.

You said that it's the same, but not why.

Anyway, I'm pretty far from sold on a mastin lynch. There are a couple of points in her ISO that need clarification, but generally she seems legit.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:41 pm

VOTE: RedCoyote

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:05 pm

Hi dopog, in case it wasn't clear from my wagons a-hoy post, I was voting PV because I wanted to wagon someone and didn't have great read on PV. When I ask someone a question, it's not me giving that person shit, it's me asking something; in this case, I question Aegor because I find it odd when people criticize votes on wagons that they support(ed) (unless of course its clear why their read has changed).

For the record, I think that the point on GiF is quite strong and there is no way I would ignore it.

Also, just to keep track of things, I now think SBC3 looks okay, and Majiffy looks bad since he's just been tunneling on town Vezok all the day and he said that town-Thor and town-Majiffy play alike somehow, but their play today has been quite distinct, so I don't really see how he could believe that.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:06 pm

Well I mean believe that, and believe that Thor is town.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:10 pm

In post 1896, dopog wrote:Because his @L-2/L-1 [whatever it was] post is just a wash to me.

That post was truly beautiful.
I don't lynch beauty,
Unless it's scummy,
But that wasn't.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:16 pm

Actually, dopog reading your posts is really nice because I think for the most part you are describing what I am doing accurately. It's one of the reasons I am pretty sure you are town. I think you'd probably read me correctly if you thought about why I am doing what I am doing rather than just pointing it out. The RC thing is particularly telling, especially if you think RC is scum. At that moment, with no one else (if I remember correctly) calling RC scum, as scum I would have had no motivation to bus him.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:27 pm

Dopog, you ignored my question from before, what "stuff" were you referring to?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:31 pm

It's occurred to me that dopog's iioa case on me might be coming from new-scum who can't fake scum hunting.
I'll have to look at one of old games.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:53 pm

In post 1906, GuyInFreezer wrote:I was keeping my end of the deal.

but you made that deal with your scum read.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:55 pm

Also dopog does not appear to have any completed scum games.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:59 pm

In post 1911, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 1909, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1906, GuyInFreezer wrote:I was keeping my end of the deal.
but you made that deal with your scum read.
I kinda hinted that my read on them was flipping by giving them a second chance.

What made it flip?

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:46 am

In post 1914, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 1912, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1911, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 1909, Zdenek wrote:
In post 1906, GuyInFreezer wrote:I was keeping my end of the deal.
but you made that deal with your scum read.
I kinda hinted that my read on them was flipping by giving them a second chance.
What made it flip?
His AtE. If he was scum, he would've gone "oh cool you're just gonna regret it" kinda tone.

I find this sort of opinion very strange. I mean, it relies on thinking that notscience can't improve, and really incorporating appeals to emotion into one's scum game is not far-fetched.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:55 am

In post 1929, Majiffy wrote:@Zdenek - That's great and all, but why would I lie, re: my playstyle/thor's playstyle?

The appropriate response would have been to explain why you think that Thor is town and how that relates to your view that town-Thor is like town-Majiffy.

See, I don't think that you are lying about your playstyle/Thor's playstyle. I'm sure that's something you actually believe. It's the conclusion you've drawn from it - that Thor is town - that I have an issue with. I shouldn't have to write you an essay about why scum-Majiffy might want to town-read Thor.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:59 am

In post 1937, vezokpiraka wrote:Zdenek ?

LOL Vezzy LOL

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:33 am

In post 1975, Majiffy wrote:Granted, the read may stem from them, but they aren't based on them.

that is such a crock of shit

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:24 pm

rc is scum with dopog - that's why he over reacted to PeregrineV's post.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:24 pm

Oh and Majiffy is still hasn't explained his read on Thor.

Zdenek · Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:29 pm

The non list should include either RC or SnK, which ever doesn't get lynched, assuming we lynch town.

Aside from that, Rubicon is a good choice since he isn't reading the thread.

The last one I can't decide now.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:34 am

I don't like that Thor was leaving RC off the zombie-kill list. I'm not sure I believe he would defend a buddy so blatantly, and I'm more inclined to think that it's scum trying to gain credibility by not pushing for the death of someone they know is likely to flip town today.
While I look into things,

Unvote

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:30 am

In post 2062, Thor665 wrote:@Zed - heck, didn't he do a claim *because* of my list? I'm pretty sure I remember that happening too.
Meaning he was at least pretty convinced I wanted him dead.

Where?

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:42 am

LOL Thor.

In post 1982, Thor665 wrote:
Nom List

Action Dan *or* Sekai, whichever we don't lynch (unless the one we lynch flips scum, in which case choose BBMolla)
Rubicon
Chessball

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:57 am

In post 348, Thor665 wrote:
In post 304, Nero Cain wrote:Why would that make Toog likely town?
Well...basically you seem to agree with me that scum have some sort of mechanic to affect the horde.
Toog is arguing that there is no such mechanic due to mod and is *also* arguing that despite this fact we shouldn't reveal anything to scum.
What's the scum motive there? If they have an effect he's shooting them in the foot and if they don't then he's also shooting them in the foot. I just don't see scum wanting to get into that discussion in the way he did.

How does this make any sense? If scum don't have a mechanic to affect the horde, then town could try targeting more precisely, which would be a plus, and all of us submitting the same three names would be shooting town in the foot, not scum.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:35 am

Thor=

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:44 am

Thor, I'm serious too. If you want to have a reasonable discussion about this, start with where RC claimed.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:50 am

I've looked at RC in Walking Dead Mafia and his post 2785 in that game makes me think that trying to read him based on how he might be coming up with his reads might not work for me. He still might be scum, but I don't have much confidence in my rationale for it now.

Link:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5210730

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:10 pm

Thor, I didn't like that you left RC off the zombie-kill list. You did it in post 1982 acting as through AD was going to be a likely lynch today, which as far as I can tell, he's not, and he is certainly not being aggressively wagoned.

You posting a list from 300 posts ago with RC on the list does not change any of that. What makes your objection even more irrelevant is that that RC wasn't on your list in 1569, the list before the one you quoted.

Why ever you left him off earlier, I don't know, but back then he maybe had my vote on him and wasn't really in danger of being lynched, so me wanting him on the list was rather a vanity thing then. Now though, the situation is different. It's likely that he is going to be lynched, yet you didn't include him in the either or part of your list.

Whether RC claimed is relevant because you tried to defend the fact that you are in fact attacking him by suggesting that he was so afraid of the list that he claimed. Well, we don't need to discuss it, but he hasn't claimed, as far as I can tell.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:35 pm

In post 2084, SweatingChessball3 wrote:
In post 2060, Zdenek wrote:I don't like that Thor was leaving RC off the zombie-kill list. I'm not sure I believe he would defend a buddy so blatantly, and I'm more inclined to think that it's scum trying to gain credibility by not pushing for the death of someone they know is likely to flip town today.
While I look into things,

Unvote
Thor WOULD, and he's scum.

Not so long ago in a game on MTGS he stated that he would absolutely not hammer... his buddy.

RC, you should really get in here and say some words about your reads.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:22 pm

AP, then what is your explanation for this?

In post 1982, Thor665 wrote:
Nom List

Action Dan *or* Sekai, whichever we don't lynch (unless the one we lynch flips scum, in which case choose BBMolla)
Rubicon
Chessball

I *really* like this iteration of the list.
As a bonus it also includes the people kind of meaningless whining about being on the list without doing much else. Which, y'know, seems the definition of good inclusion for names on the list.

AD has never really been in position to be lynched and at the time RC was more likely to be lynched, I think, than Sekai.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:43 pm

In post 2092, AngryPidgeon wrote:Thor is implying that we ar elynching one of Sekai or Dan today and kind of forgets about RC? Thats what it looks like. I find it less likely that Thor purposely is ignoring the RC wagon and more likely that hes just personally more interested in other people.

Not saying this makes him town, but I really don't see explicit scum motivation behind him
a) trying to game the mechanic
b) swapping RC off his list for other people

I think that if he'd just forgotten about RC he would have just said so rather than pushing the argument that he was attacking RC.

I thought this was because he wanted to make it seem that he wasn't attacking a townsperson who was close to flipping, but after SCB3's post, it could just as well be him protecting a scum-buddy.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:46 pm

In post 2093, RedCoyote wrote:Alright, Zde, what do you want from me? You're probably cool town, but then again I'm a sucker for anyone that will go against the grain when it's unpopular to do so. To reiterate, some reads you can bank on from me: Aegor and LeMidget are strong townreads of mine, mastin is a strong scumread of mine. Let vez play out, but I'm more inclined to believe him than not.

I was hoping for some rationale behind your ranking of players.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:24 pm

In post 2099, RedCoyote wrote:
In post 2095, Zdenek wrote:
In post 2093, RedCoyote wrote:Alright, Zde, what do you want from me? You're probably cool town, but then again I'm a sucker for anyone that will go against the grain when it's unpopular to do so. To reiterate, some reads you can bank on from me: Aegor and LeMidget are strong townreads of mine, mastin is a strong scumread of mine. Let vez play out, but I'm more inclined to believe him than not.
I was hoping for some rationale behind your ranking of players.
Did you have someone specific in mind? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just wouldn't want to sit here and rehash things I've already said. Like, you look at mastin's 560 or 61, and I see some really big red flags about the language he's using to try and rewrite history or say "RC is scumreading me for the wrong reasons", which is, to me, textbook scum mentality. It implies there are right reasons to scumread him?

How about dopog?

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:38 pm

In post 2103, RedCoyote wrote:With dopog, I don't like how in 296 he votes Pere out of the blue. He had three posts up unto that point. He mentioned Pere only in his first post, asking him for clarification about a post he made. He never followed up on it.

In his 638, there was no real meat to it. I didn't like how he threw up that he didn't care for my posts in this game, but he doesn't take the time to explain why. I don't even need him to write a disseration on the subject, but he could at least say something like, "when RC said X, I thought he was being fake because look at Y". He just says he doesn't "see" the townread. That's not good enough. It sounds like he's just putting something out there for its own sake. His articulation of his Pere vote was also pretty poor. Remember that I said scum would use the missing posts to their advantage, well, here were have dopog saying that Pere is scum for "a couple posts of his before the downtime".

I would suspect him strongly.

So in your reads list, why was he listed as scummier than Vezok?

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:24 pm

Dopog is very limited in his focus and his "case" on me is IIOA, but I'm biased.

Zdenek · Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:26 pm

I have pretty mixed feeling on dopog all things considered.

Zdenek · Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:43 am

In post 2109, RedCoyote wrote:
In post 2107, Zdenek wrote:
In post 2103, RedCoyote wrote:With dopog, I don't like how in 296 he votes Pere out of the blue. He had three posts up unto that point. He mentioned Pere only in his first post, asking him for clarification about a post he made. He never followed up on it.

In his 638, there was no real meat to it. I didn't like how he threw up that he didn't care for my posts in this game, but he doesn't take the time to explain why. I don't even need him to write a disseration on the subject, but he could at least say something like, "when RC said X, I thought he was being fake because look at Y". He just says he doesn't "see" the townread. That's not good enough. It sounds like he's just putting something out there for its own sake. His articulation of his Pere vote was also pretty poor. Remember that I said scum would use the missing posts to their advantage, well, here were have dopog saying that Pere is scum for "a couple posts of his before the downtime".

I would suspect him strongly.
So in your reads list, why was he listed as scummier than Vezok?
Because the posts he's made led me to a stronger scumread than the one I had one vez.

Fucking shocking.

Zdenek · Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:47 am

In post 2120, Thor665 wrote:@Zed - Also, looking back, though the mod lives in fear of constant VC updates, at the point I made the last list (the tricksy one without RC on it) ...his wagon wasn't that big compared to others. His wagon sprung up *after* that and I haven't made a new list since.
So...whassup?

Why must you lie? Your post was 1939 this was 1917.

In post 1917, Venmar wrote:
Votecount 1.16

[0] Majiffy:

[0] LeMidget:

[2]
Sekai No Ki:
Mastin2, Bulbazak

[1]
SweatingChessBall3:
PeregrineV

[2]
PeregrineV:
dopog, RedCoyote

[5]
RedCoyote:
Zdenek, BBMolla, Svenskt Stal, AngryPidgeon, GuyInFreezer

[5]
Mastin2:
Nero Cain, Majiffy, ActionDan, Aegor, Rubicon

[1]
Alpazard:
LeMidget

[0] Aegor:

[0] GuyInFreezer:

[0] Bulbazak:

[0] Thor665:

[0] Svenskt Stål:

[0] Rubicon:

[2]
ActionDan:
Alpazard, Vezokpiraka

[1]
Vezokpiraka:
Pidgey

[0] BBMolla:

[0] Pidgey:

[0] AngryPidgeon:

[0] Dopog:

[1]
Nero Cain:
SweatingChessball3

[0] Zdenek:

Not Voting (2):

Thor665, sekai no ki

Deadline:

Monday, March 10th, 2014

Mod Notes:

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Nero Cain is
V/LA
until March 7th (Friday) or so.

Zdenek · Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:02 pm

In post 2140, dopog wrote:Hey : )

Not too much time but yeah

@Zdenek;

the stuff I was referring to was that stuff I posted in that post about your pv wagon interactions.

Well, I thought I made a post saying that I thought PV could be lurker-scum, but I guess it was lost in the deletion or I am losing my mind. Either way, there weren't really interactions to speak of, so that's BS.
[/quote]

And no I don't think I'm just saying what you're doing (iioa). I mean what I'm getting from your play as a whole is that you're just kinda doing stuff arbitrarily or you move from one thing to another sometimes without really reflecting on it in context and that's not town.

I take you've stopped reading my posts then? Because you're hanging onto nonsense from before I started attacking RC.

I mean if you want a read of pv ok and you don't strongly think he's scum fair enough. But when you see sc3 as kinda scummy and voting pv and you see gif and aegor's votes are bad and odd respectively, why do you even need to continue to be on the wagon like that?

One odd thing is pretty irrelevant. People will say basically anything. Wagons are awesome. This got PV to do something a little townish.

You were on it all the way to 11.

I

go to 11.

Granted you weren't around for some of it but you kept your vote on him after he had posted a bit and I feel like you were very ok with him being lynched.

He made the post that made be change my mind in 1665, and in my next post I unvote. So LOL dopog.

The fact that all of this is you undermining my attack on a wagon you supported means your scum.

Zdenek · Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:02 pm

Can we swing dopog? I bet we can.

Vote: dopog

Zdenek · Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:04 pm

Oh fuck it.

Unvote
Vote: RedCoyote

Zdenek · Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:05 pm

I believe that's L-1

Zdenek · Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:18 pm

Vote: Thor

Zdenek · Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:05 pm

Okay bb,

Vote: Mastin

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:25 am

My list,

PeregrineV
Alpazard
ActionDan

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:31 am

In post 122, Svenskt Stål wrote:Thats a shitty reason to get a scum read on me

VOTE: Bulba

Possible Mastin buddy - complains that Mastin is reading him as scum for a shitty reason, votes Bulba, on page 5.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:32 am

In post 125, vezokpiraka wrote:
vote rubicon

He OMGUSed mastin with only 3 voets on him and still in RVS. That seems like scum over-reacting.

Probably town.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:32 am

In post 129, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 125, vezokpiraka wrote:
vote rubicon

He OMGUSed mastin with only 3 voets on him and still in RVS. That seems like scum over-reacting.
While simultaneously praising a Mastin post.

Vote: Rubicon

Also probably town.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:40 am

In post 130, pidgey wrote:whats this shit about AP being the best bird around mastin im the best bird obv

So there's a wagon on Rubicon forming and pidgey just ignores it.
Possible scum buddy.

In post 136, ActionDan wrote:
In post 122, Svenskt Stål wrote:Thats a shitty reason to get a scum read on me

VOTE: Bulba
I agree I think this post is a better reason.

VOTE: sven

Also possible scum buddy for the same reason.

In post 148, sekai no ki wrote:
In post 146, Nero Cain wrote:You guys, Mastin just posted but ignored EVERYTHING about me calling him scum. Time to lynch it.
For a game that hasn't hit 10 pages, I'm feeling pretty sure he's town. Do you want me to count the reasons why?

Pretty sure not scum.

In post 153, Alpazard wrote:Why didn't I get an Ellis role PM
/cries

VOTE: Sven

Possible scum buddy.

In post 192, Aegor wrote:
In post 190, Alpazard wrote:What are people thinking of Bulba so far?
Pretty sure he is town unless his claim was fake.

Keep calm and remember that Aegor is town.

I'll go back to check to see if I think Vezok was bussing Rubi.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:45 am

In post 320, mastin2 wrote:Did I mention that Sven's scum with Rubicon?

I suspect this is Mastin setting up a townie lynch on a Rubi scum flip, so we shouldn't lynch Sven.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:57 am

Okay, cool. Well I'll see how I feel at the end, but it's good to know.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:00 am

In post 215, pidgey wrote:mastin seems mastin to me at the moment, dunno why everyone is afraid when mastin mastins. Its annoying yes, but not necessary scum at the moment.

Maybe scum with Mastin.

In post 329, Rubicon wrote:And btw, PV trolls as both alignments.

Subtle defense of PV.

In post 338, mastin2 wrote:
In post 337, AngryPidgeon wrote:Mastin if you wanna be town you gotta stop misreading this hilarious scumbutt.
Well, then, I guess I'm scum because I'm townreading Vezok and quite strongly so.

I think this is scum Mastin telling us Vezok is town.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:27 am

In post 2519, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2518, Svenskt Stål wrote:
In post 2500, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 2495, Zdenek wrote:My list,

PeregrineV
Alpazard
ActionDan

In post 2498, Zdenek wrote:
In post 129, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 125, vezokpiraka wrote:
vote rubicon

He OMGUSed mastin with only 3 voets on him and still in RVS. That seems like scum over-reacting.
While simultaneously praising a Mastin post.

Vote: Rubicon
Also probably town.

Then why you try to munch my brain?
bolded is a good reason
Bolded is my question to Zdenek about why he included me in his vig list if he is calling me probably town.

Well, I didn't reread before sending in the list. Also, my list was people who I wouldn't mind being dead as opposed to a top scum read list. That will be changing.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:59 am

In post 2075, Majiffy wrote:Classic misdirection.

Town-majiffy, town reading Thor doesn't make this post.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:07 am

In post 2527, Svenskt Stål wrote:could you add the context columbo

There's a link.

Basically, I'm arguing with Thor, Majiffy accuses him of classic misdirection.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:09 am

In post 2448, BBmolla wrote:VOTE: LeMidget

I have mixed feelings on this slot. Toogeloo made a dumb ass case on me, but I don't think it was the sort of case that scum would want to defend.

I think Metal Sonic is an okay vote.

Vote: Majiffy

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:50 pm

I would bet on 4.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:51 pm

I also think they are all in

Sekai No Ki
ActionDan
Majiffy
GiF
Pidgey
Metal Sonic

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:55 pm

5 is also possible.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:55 pm

In post 2561, GuyInFreezer wrote:Seeing that the horde kill worked normally on only at day 2, I think 5 scums are entirely possible.

What are you thinking?

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:00 pm

We could have tied in the voting.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:04 pm

No we wouldn't.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:05 pm

I mean we wouldn't get a better lynch pool than what we can get to by just playing.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:10 pm

In post 2569, GuyInFreezer wrote:Also vezok isn't confirmed town due to last similar game having one town herder and one scum herder (+1 town herder bc lol scavenger)

Do you think Vezok is scum?

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:15 pm

In post 2573, GuyInFreezer wrote:Read wise, he's close to null. Role wise, he's close to scum.

Because he claimed herder?

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:22 pm

and what is your read on Aegor?

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:28 pm

In post 2578, GuyInFreezer wrote:I didn't like what I pointed out on d1. Leaning scum.
I also didn't like how he was like "cop report pls"
based on what I've read, he's apparently claimed pr thus town stuff, but idr what he claimed.

And you don't think that's something that you should have worked out already?
I mean if you're going to go after Vezok using setup spec, getting what's been claimed/sorft-claimed down seems like a pretty crucial first step.

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:31 pm

To people who know him, is this normal for GiF?

Zdenek · Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:36 pm

In post 2583, GuyInFreezer wrote:Also I'm not really going after vezok right now.
what do you think of toog/lemidget?

Well Toog made that stupid case me where he basically quoted my ISO and said that he disliked everything. I'm inclined to think that it's coming from town because I don't think that it's the sort of thing scum would want to defend. That said it's still a dumb-ass case, so idk.

Zdenek · Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:37 pm

In post 2586, GuyInFreezer wrote:I didn't had much problem with that slot too until 2644, which sounded lame and scummy

Weird. I mean it was lame, but why scummy?

In post 2592, ActionDan wrote:Possibly it's Toog's slot, something he said D1 pinged my gut

That he's scum or that he's a herder?

In post 2594, BBmolla wrote:
In post 2592, ActionDan wrote:
In post 2556, BBmolla wrote:AD please get in here and solve the game?
sure. I'll probably take the rest of the day phase. Thor flipping town was not expected.

Also I think there's a scum herder as per last game. Possibly it's Toog's slot, something he said D1 pinged my gut
If you're the amn cop just fucking check him and send me it because nobody is listening to me about the slot

If you tell me a reason why you think he's scum, I'll listen.

In post 2602, Svenskt Stål wrote:i seem to be out of sync with my alp vote, granted its mostly because he lurks but i mean he comes in here and gets active only when pressured. So my question to both of you are how you can dismiss him?

I'm not dismissing him, but like toogeloo there are some reasons to think that the slot is town, so if you want me to vote him, I'm going to need some sort of reason why you think they're scum.

In post 2613, Metal Sonic wrote:very dense

So far metal sonic is posting in way that makes me want him dead.

In post 2614, Majiffy wrote:Wasn't to Thor, it was to you. Apparently you didn't get it, which means I also don't get the post you made that it was about.

You make my life so hard.

Unvote
Vote: Metal Sonic

Zdenek · Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:01 pm

One thing that I didn't like about Vezok's claim was that he asked Bulba to confirm the word that began with an "h" that was part of their role name, so that Bulba could be confirmed town. I didn't like it because if Vezok was this role, then he should have picked up on Aegor confirming Bulba earlier, and shouldn't have needed this additional push. Does anyone else think this is meaningful?

Zdenek · Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:18 pm

In post 1736, vezokpiraka wrote:ActionDan claimed Hunter for all those not paying attention.
I have no idea why people immediately assumed his claim is true. If anyone wants to step up for a counterclaim now is the chance.

At this moment, Vezok new that there were multiple herders in the game, but he saw AD claim hunter and asked for a counterclaim rather than assuming that there could be more hunters. This seems like pretty obv. role fishing to me.

Zdenek · Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:21 pm

that's "Vezok knew," ugh.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:38 am

In post 2651, vezokpiraka wrote:@zdenek: shoe me where I said I want a CC from anyone against dan's hunter claim

vezok, vezok

In post 1736, vezokpiraka wrote:ActionDan claimed Hunter for all those not paying attention.
I have no idea why people immediately assumed his claim is true. If anyone wants to step up for a counterclaim now is the chance.

Zdenek · Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:38 am

In post 2655, Svenskt Stål wrote:so basicly we just outed who the scum team should protect

good job everyone

hmm?

Zdenek · Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:21 am

In post 2658, pidgey wrote:Zdenek why do you think i was dodging rubicon

Sorry? I'm not sure what you are referring to.