The Reckoning III (Math is Hard) Holy crap, perfect town win

[Nuwen]

vote CheeryDog

sup

[Nuwen]

so much unbridled enthusiasm

[Nuwen]

Why do you think UT is scum, Reck?

[Nuwen]

That was a hella boring shot with a beloved princess claim in the game. It's not like we were going to waste a D1 lynch on a miller, right. >_>

[Nuwen]

Nuwen, this statement is directed at you, too. You could always vote the beloved princess if you feel so strongly that this would've been a better option?

Yeah let me go ahead and start wagoning a beloved princess claim

oh

wait

That would be the worst idea ever. Especially when we can kill it with BULLETS instead of ROPE. Why are you encouraging me to do something so high risk, which potentially only nets easy-to-read Reckscum and is VERY bad if we're wrong?

Fate said we'd worry about Reck's claim tomorrow, which is fine.

The opportunity to browbeat Ythan is too good to pass up. I don't think it's very sensible to shoot a miller claim vs. a beloved princess claim at this point in the game. On the off chance that Ythan isn't town, I'm going to make it very clear that I see through the miasma and pointed out his sub-optimal-for-town shot nya nya nya boo boo.

[Nuwen]

Well that was pretty protown...

This is also a very quick exclamation, when Ythan's shot in actuality was only "meh" in the good-better-best-for-this-gamestate scale.

Unless your trifecta of wisdom and foresight really thinks dealing with an unwagoned miller is SUPER GOOD compared to shooting a princess. The slight scum motivation for shooting a miller instead was obvious to me; why did you not think about it?

[Nuwen]

dooon't care enough yet pie

triforce's comment on the beloved princess to me just seems like trying to ask a 'trap' question to see if nuwen will respond the way she's expecting her to as scum without actually thinking about why nuwen would do it as town because if she had thought about that at all the answer would seem pretty obvious? if you think that's scummy then shrug and if you don't then also shrug.

It spins to me like Triforce thinks he can get me to do something dumb/anti-town, because I'd be feeling pressured to Just Do Something in response to people saying I'm inactive.

Here's why I think it's my yarn and not your narrative, Gamma. These posts happen immediately, almost back to back:

Why shoot him first then join the wagon? If he was going to use his shot (provided it's limited or D1 or whatever), there were a couple of obvious options...and he shot one of them.

Nuwen, this statement is directed at you, too. You could always vote the beloved princess if you feel so strongly that this would've been a better option?[/quote]

Actually, Nuwen's been a pile of useless and we would be fine with her dead.

So first, Triforce says there were a couple of obvious options for a vig to go after. Ythan shot one of them. Triforce thinks this is very pro-town.

I interject and suggest the miller WASN'T the best shot, nor was it one of many "obvious options." Shooting the miller was unnecessary and a waste of a power, because now we have to deal with a beloved princess LATER in the game. I also wouldn't immediately discard the idea of a mafia dayvig, but it seems like Triforce has -- suboptimal shot that skips killing a princess, a massive liability? I think this is worth considering.

But instead of considering this possibility, which I wasn't vague or unclear about, Triforce instead suggests me as a possible lynch.

which is licking a finger and sticking it in the air

Seems more worthwhile to me than anything else going on right now. CDB's lines of thought seem pretty well-supported. I know CDB is fully capable of acting out internally consistent scumplay, especially this early, but it doesn't feel right yet. Lynching ActionDan every Day 1 is very boring. I'd rather wagon one of the people NOT currently voting, which bisects nicely with my Triforce read.

[Nuwen]

dooon't care enough yet pie

triforce's comment on the beloved princess to me just seems like trying to ask a 'trap' question to see if nuwen will respond the way she's expecting her to as scum without actually thinking about why nuwen would do it as town because if she had thought about that at all the answer would seem pretty obvious? if you think that's scummy then shrug and if you don't then also shrug.

It spins to me like Triforce thinks he can get me to do something dumb/anti-town, because I'd be feeling pressured to Just Do Something in response to people saying I'm inactive.

Here's why I think it's my yarn and not your narrative, Gamma. These posts happen immediately, almost back to back:

Why shoot him first then join the wagon? If he was going to use his shot (provided it's limited or D1 or whatever), there were a couple of obvious options...and he shot one of them.

Nuwen, this statement is directed at you, too. You could always vote the beloved princess if you feel so strongly that this would've been a better option?

Actually, Nuwen's been a pile of useless and we would be fine with her dead.

So first, Triforce says there were a couple of obvious options for a vig to go after. Ythan shot one of them. Triforce thinks this is very pro-town.

I interject and suggest the miller WASN'T the best shot, nor was it one of many "obvious options." Shooting the miller was unnecessary and a waste of a power, because now we have to deal with a beloved princess LATER in the game. I also wouldn't immediately discard the idea of a mafia dayvig, but it seems like Triforce has -- suboptimal shot that skips killing a princess, a massive liability? I think this is worth considering.

But instead of considering this possibility, which I wasn't vague or unclear about, Triforce instead suggests me as a possible lynch.

which is licking a finger and sticking it in the air

Seems more worthwhile to me than anything else going on right now. CDB's lines of thought seem pretty well-supported. I know CDB is fully capable of acting out internally consistent scumplay, especially this early, but it doesn't feel right yet. Lynching ActionDan every Day 1 is very boring. I'd rather wagon one of the people NOT currently voting, which bisects nicely with my Triforce read.

i fixed the quotes

[Nuwen]

Reck claimed BP to D1 lynch only. So it's not really a BP. There's no reason to shoot it (unless you think he is scum)....

I missed the Day 1 caveat like a foo.

math is easy, reading is hard

[Nuwen]

[quote="In post 481, Triforce"
Nothing else has really stood out to us. To be honest, we're kind of expecting Fate, Nuwen, and Reck to all kind of read each other before we even try to read them... [/quote]
This has already occurred.

Fate -> Nuwen is town
Nuwen // Fate -> Reck is scum
Reck -> Fate is scum // Fate is not scum

VOTE: Triforce

Gamma, UT

: We all know Triforce tends to sound internally inconsistent. Each head approaches the game differently, which shows in their posts. The case against them isn't about clunky inter-head play, it's about the reaction to both Ythan's shot and Eaglekit's fresh wagon.

[Nuwen]

Nothing else has really stood out to us. To be honest, we're kind of expecting Fate, Nuwen, and Reck to all kind of read each other before we even try to read them...

This has already occurred.

Fate -> Nuwen is town
Nuwen // Fate -> Reck is scum
Reck -> Fate is scum // Fate is not scum

VOTE: Triforce

Gamma, UT

: We all know Triforce tends to sound internally inconsistent. Each head approaches the game differently, which shows in their posts. The case against them isn't about clunky inter-head play, it's about the reaction to both Ythan's shot and Eaglekit's fresh wagon.

phone is so bad @ quotes.

[Nuwen]

nuwen is just pretty damn good at the game a lot of the time and all i've seen was a big post about triforce that was partially based on a misconception with reck's claim

like it IS early so it's not a big thing but it's not up to my (admittedly high) expectations of her.

Sometimes it's okay to ride bitch in a game with this many personalities. I feel like there's a lot going on and I'm only going to speak up if I have something important to mention. Dumping noise isn't really me.

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't nuwen usually this quiet early?

-

[Nuwen]

I think

UT is stoking the flames and adding a new layer of Stuff To Fear.

unvote

for now

[Nuwen]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p5732298]post 924[/url], Sir Waffles Wafflington"][quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p5731021]post 886[/url], EagleKit"][quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p5730996]post 878[/url], Fate"]I 100% do?[/quote]

flavored doctor sounds plausible on its own, why even bother with the survivor part? it's needlessly complex (aka likely the truth).[/quote]
This is actually a good point.

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p5731041]post 889[/url], Nuwen"]I think

UT is stoking the flames and adding a new layer of Stuff To Fear.

[b]unvote[/b] for now[/quote]
Hey, Nuwen, can you just come out and say, "I am scumreading UT," rather than throw around this kind of soft shit?[/quote]

Why is your tone hostile in this post?

[Nuwen]

I 100% do?

flavored doctor sounds plausible on its own, why even bother with the survivor part? it's needlessly complex (aka likely the truth).

This is actually a good point.

I think

UT is stoking the flames and adding a new layer of Stuff To Fear.

unvote

for now

Hey, Nuwen, can you just come out and say, "I am scumreading UT," rather than throw around this kind of soft shit?

Why is your tone hostile in this post?

I'd maybe call that aggressive (I'm a lot less "sweetness and light" than you'd expect in forum Mafia), but not hostile. Now answer the question and commit to an actual stance on UT. I don't 't think you've had many opinions that aren't tangential sideswipes or null dis

I often observe scum take on a hyper-interrogative voice while trying play proactively during the day, especially if the scum aren't confident in their ability to play it cool. There's really no good reason to get that aggro about my comments re: UT. His posts about cults were trying to spook the cattle, and my post pointed that out.

I don't buy this explanation for Waffles' aggro voice, and the tone continues in "now answer the question and commit."

IMO scumlynch > 3rd party lynch day 1, because I'm pretty sure Triforce isn't lying about being 3rd party. The scum are wanting to lynch the 3rd party too, so naturally that's easier and more popular right now. Yeah, it's generally good policy to purge 3rd party but Triforce lynch doesn't give us much to go on UNLESS we're in the specific scenario where Triforce is scum fakeclaiming.

[Nuwen]

I think Waffles is more likely to be scum than triforce, triforce is likely to be a third party (but any other part of their claim might be horseshit, like the protection), and that UT's erraticism is genuine but not pro-town in the case I pointed out.

I haven't heard anyone speak the same words, Icerint. I definitely haven't read a case f Waffles, except for Faraday's winks and jovial hints. If I missed it, link me because I'm at the skim + narrow focus reading stage.

[Nuwen]

Jesus it sounds like you ISO'd yourself to compose that post

[Nuwen]

Pie is scum, Eaglekit is scum, pirate mollie is very much town, I was correct about Triforce, faraday gets to enjoy Pump It Up status while we discuss who bussed because that lynch happened, was easy, and me/another town read didn't even need to help the wagon to fruition.

Gamma, Fate, Waffles are my bus picks based on control+F early sentiments about ActionDan vs. how they voted. Gamma is probably the top pick because he actually said stuff like "ActionDan tomorrow" and was proposing alternatives right up until his psuedo-hammer was cast.

softclear CDB a teeensy tiny bitsy

softerclear icerint because his role was confirmed and it doesn't feel like a mechanic for scum

UT 'cult' was their role name, not their role itself

[Nuwen]

and then gamma ninjas me with a vote

COINCIDENCE?!

[Nuwen]

HELLO

IS THERE ANYONE SANE OUT THERE

ACTIONDAN BUSSED ACDIONDAN, come on guys. His team bussed him as well. Not just 1 person - TEAM. That lynch occurred very rapidly and easily, and town players like myself and pirate Mollie weren't even voting for it.

Waffles, I thought your self-consciousness and attention to your own details betrayed a pretty nasty amount of concentration not congruent with game's actual state. You were hyper interested, hyper invested, and very nervous about your OWN posts. Those are scum slanted qualities. I don't know why people read extreme investment as town, because in my experience town are bored/most disinterested Day 1. You read like proactive scum.

Faraday says you're town and that's fine enough for me, because Faraday is town

[Nuwen]

ACTIONDAN was shrugs. I already said I'm tired of lynching Action Dan every single Day 1.

Because I didn't defend OR bus scum, I'm scum? THAT'S the way you think that played out.

I am telling you 100% that ActionDan's wagon contained his own cannibalistic scum team because I know I wasn't interested in voting Dan, as town. Only his buddies would be so sensitive and swing onto that shit, and ActionDan obviously had no intention of living. I don't think anyone on his team threw him a lifeline, which is why he gave up.

[Nuwen]

I don't think anyone on his team threw him a lifeline, which is why he gave up.

How do you figure? He was avoiding the thread from the time he got 3 votes, and wasn't even a top wagon so it's not like he suddenly gave up because gigantic wagon or anything?

Yeah, obviously the wagon settled on him because he was lurkstanking up the thread... but I think the speed at which Dan collected terminal votes means his team went FUCK IT BUS HIM. He had 3-4 votes parked on him most of the day {CDB, Waffles, Eleven, Icerint}. We can observe EXACTLY when the lynchpin slipped, because from Fate's vote onwards the wagon progressed to VERY DEAD VERY FAST and ActionDan even voted for himself to assist. Here's the wagon minus the people who vote parked AD:

Fate, Porochaz, Untrod Tripod, Ythan, ActionDan, Gammagooey,

Prozac is dead. Ythan is roletown until notice.

The bus is down to Fate, Gamma, UT.

I don't think ActionDan would have self-voted IF HIS BUDDIES WERE OFF THE WAGON AND NON PARTICIPATORY, OR NOT POISED TO BUS HIM. Think about it - what motivates a scum player to vote for himself once he's already going down? He ends the day quicker and gives us less time to pause over each individual vote. Is that the play if his team is off-voting random vanity wagons? Wouldn't he want to give them more opportunity to get on the wagon, or say ANYTHING? This tells us that ActionDan knew his team was

already well-positioned to end the day

, so he was comfortable coming into the thread to speak nonsense and self-vote.

[Nuwen]

Glad that's all sorted then.

Nuwen - What does you and mollie not being on the wagon have anything to do with it? And why when you point out a townsperson like you wasn't on the wagon, you need to also point out that a townsperson like mollie wasn't on the wagon?

When multiple town don't help lynch scum, it's usually pretty likely that the rest of the team bussed him. It's actually very hard to get enough number for all-town wagons with vanity votes parked by town. Like, the wagon is CLEARLY divided into the bloc that voted him all day 1 and the tail-end votes like FateUTGamma.

[Nuwen]

I'm not 180ing on anything? The names I'm listing as scum reads are possible lynches today, not a composite scum team. Pie/Eagle are the only not-bus lynches I'd consider for reasons not related to ActionDan, lower priority behavioral stuff.

[Nuwen]

I'd kill Tammy so she gets a hint that her attitude is unacceptable.

I don't think scum would shoot Triforce, unless scum also believed triforce was on an opposing scum team. Multiball mentioned by Fate in response to vig + Joat claims is odd, but I can read that he really believes multiball is a possible explanation. I think his brain jumped to multiball because he's scum. Scum always have the first sesitivity to multiball speculation because their own team numbers/power make it obvious.

This corroborates my feelings that ActionDan was turbo scum lynched, because 1 tr would be mislynching him while others bus.

I haven't had a ton of interest in this game because everyone's being rather cruel to each other. I prefer the British Way where we dryly remind of past mistakes but also make tea and chuckle. I don't think I'm being listened to, and I don't think it matters if I use one sentence or thirty to explain my thoughts; people ignore because they don't think divergently

Fate I'm prob going to vote you but here is a courteousy notice of intent

[Nuwen]

here's a gif to brighten your morale, dear reader



*~happy feet*~

I have other fucking reasons for thinking its multiball

List them reasons

[Nuwen]

it's possible the whole commune is just scum

Fate is scum and will backpedal on his town read of me if you try to lynch me, especially if you give him a good-enough sounding reason. There's really no one to hold him accountable to that read. Reck isn't scum-reading Fate for scum-reading him so maybe Reck is actually afraid, but that could also be explained by being afk. If Fate is wrong about Reck, he jumps through MASSIVE HOOPS to record the incident for posterity. Does anyone remember the time he recorded me voting for him in a face to face game? Not seeing the same attitude towards Fate being 'wrong' about him.

Gamma is a strong scum pick because he offhandedly hammered ActionDan, even though his initial reads on Day 1 pegged all of the EARLY Dan Bloc {CDB, Eleven, Icerint} as scum. Is it more likely that Gamma, as town, hammers the wagon build by his scum reads... or Gamma, as scum, realizes he needs to Just Kill ActionDan. If Fatescum thinks there are multiple scum teams it's probable that Gamma's on a different team too; i.e. Gamma's vote doesn't need to be a bus-style vote, it's just scummy because it's not internally consistent with the reads he had earlier.


I think Waffles tone is scummy in assorted posts, but am conceding to someone who can read the slot better and is town. Claimed power not going to be lynched Day 2, too much interest in *science*. Waffles' hot/cold reactions to Ythan seem pretty opportunistic:
1)They are aggro at Ythan Day 1 'because of their role' -> I think this is a VERY WEAK explanation for wanting to lynch Ythan, because vig bullets

are a negative utility

. Town on town crime is much more likely to occur than a successful scum shot. 2)Quick kneejerk vote in response to his counterclaim indicates no pause to consider that he is also town. Waffles' slot self-examines every move (have said this before), so I think when it acts quickly we are seeing behavior that breaks her composed introspection with raw motivation. 3)Emotional engagement with Mollie is way over the top. Provocative, inflammatory, and useless are all words that describe the many many posts directed from Tammy to Mollie. I have a hard time believing that such a supposedly self-aware team would continually harass/counter-harass someone for weak play. The 'cat fights' have allowed Reck to excuse himself from playing, because he'll take any excuse not to actually read a Mafia game.

Pie is scum because gut, and Eaglekits is scum because of a similar kind of gut and their active lurking yesterday. All either of these slots did Day 1 was tunnel a vanity read for activity purposes (Triforce by Pie, Mollie by Eaglekits). Their posts parse differently from town offwagon people. Even today, Eaglekits continues to hide behind the Mollie/Waffles shroud. That's ALL the slot has talked about; it hasn't even pretended to be interested in other aspects of the game. Pie has posted other stuff since the start of today but none of it has sunk into my brain.[/spoiler]

[Nuwen]

Reck why aren't you insulted, outraged, incensed, or otherwise upset that Fate is reading you as scum?

[Nuwen]

hey look that's a post FULL OF THINGS, and they're all things I've SAID ARE WORTH ACTING ON AT LEAST ONCE BEFORE (!). It's almost like I'm NOT HIDING MY OPINIONS, but am actually YELLING FROM THE ROOFTOPS

TOPS

TOPS

TOPS

over the sound of 18 other people who like talking too

[Nuwen]

if you don't believe sensitivity to multiball is scummy, read Glork's Weather Mafia II. Scum team A was dayvig'd Day 1 (Reck) and the FIRST people to bring up multiball spec in-thread were on Scum Team B (Shea, Fate), before even a single night phase. Parsing a JOAT/VIG claim battle as MULTIBALL is the same kind of freakin oversensitivity and overinformed conclusion.

[Nuwen]

VOTE: Pie

[Nuwen]

UT is fine.

VOTE: UT

[Nuwen]

Nuwen why the fuck is Reck town

give me one real reason

he sang and danced for his dinner today?

[Nuwen]

Going out of town, behave

[Nuwen]

It would be more valuable for cheery to procure a scum read on UT than continue tunneling 2 unwagoned players, Mollie/nuwen.

If he were scum

The only person voting WITH cheery is Eaglekit, who seems to have identical reads but isn't going out of his way to defend cheery (is just vote parking mollie)

Other people (pie) have even led with "ugh why are we lynching cheery," which is a good time for someone supposedly town reading him to chime in

CDB phone in friend

[Nuwen]

I am confident that Mollie is an elemental Tree person and also town.

[Nuwen]

The UT wagon is still very fine, if you actually want to DO things instead of being snarky at me.

[Nuwen]

Also dislike Nuwen votes as when she pops up she tends to be a voice of reason, so

I feel like it might kind of IIOA, though. She says accurate things about the gamestate without really using that information to push anything or recommend any particular course of action. She doesn't seem to care whether people take her seriously.

I'm not going to get worked up if people don't want to listen to me. Seriously, look back on every game where I've been the 'star' player and you'll find that nobody really does as I ask, even if I'm completely right. That doesn't make the stuff I'm pointing out is any less true. I am water flowing.

if you're looking for a charismatic leader I am not it.

[Nuwen]

Could you summarize the stuff that makes you unwilling to lynch UT? Doesn't need to be cross-referenced or anything

[Nuwen]

Everything about Mollie's posts is genuine this game. Wood people often feel compelled to lie socially (because they're empathetic, and can tell what someone needs to hear to feel better), but the flip-side is that they don't actually lie WELL.

The things that people find scummy about Mollie are also Tree people qualities: indecisiveness / unsure how to proceed, non sequitur priorities.

But it DOES seem like she's trying to use her skills to figure out this game, namely interpreting other player's emotional states by interacting with them. Her conviction about Waffles is thick, and her doubts about that slot make sense from a town player.

[Nuwen]

UT, on the other hand, will stick his penis in anything that moves so he doesn't end up at the end of the fuck rope

[Nuwen]

UT, on the other hand, will stick his penis in anything that moves so he doesn't end up at the end of the fuck rope

yeah, the wagons right now are cheery and mollie

good try though

Today you have voted for Axxle, Mollie, Nuwen, Reck, Cheery Dog, Mollie again.

The only easy lynch you HAVEN'T gone for is Eaglekits, who is p scum

going back to my mountain now

[Nuwen]

You're voting UT with Nuwen. Do something useful if you're going to post.

UT is either scum or shit this game

either way I won't miss him

THESE WORDS SO PRECIOUS SO BEAUTIFUL

Look at that sparkling town post Mollie just made. HELLO PEOPLE WAKE UP THE SCUM LYNCH WILL NOT BE TELEVISED.

HEY FARADAY NICE AFK WHILE THIS TOWNIE DIES

[Nuwen]

unvote vote Eaglekit

[Nuwen]

mi vida loca, I probably have to replace out too

[Nuwen]

Hey, sorry again for flaking. I was reading Fate as scum after he jumped to a conclusion of multiball... I'd LIKE to say I would've been able to get him lynched, but I definitely couldn't have done it alone (and no one else shared my read at the time). Also pleased that I pegged Eaglekit/Pie from Day 1 behavioral stuff alone. Focused too much attention on UT/Waffles with limited time to commit, which was my big mistake this game.

Awesome role PMs.

[Nuwen]

Oh I was scumreading Gamma for awhile too. Seriously lack of good focus.

[Nuwen]

Pie's claim was pretty pre-constructed in response to pressure.

You might THINK either alignment will crumb their role if the player believes he'll be lynched, but most often I see town doing what Waffles did (overzealous crumbing, no major pressure applied to them) or won't bother at all. The niche market for on-demand plausible verifiability belongs to scum.

[Nuwen]

The third party role had it rough, especially in the hands of a high profile slot. Good luck nullifying the right roles, not getting shot, AND prolonging the game until your wincon can be fulfilled... All while not getting run up to a claim.