The Reckoning III (Math is Hard) Holy crap, perfect town win

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: eaglekit

Mollie, laugh if you're scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

VOTE: cdb

thats mina's tell not mine

I caught you with that exact phrase at the meet! It was on my list of memorable things that I submitted for this game. I guess it wasn't that memorable though.

Anyway UNVOTE: eaglekit, VOTE: ActionDan, everyone hop on, choo choo

[ChannelDelibird]

then why the heck would you move your vote from me if you thought it was a legit scumtell?

It was a joke! All that's happening here is that I made a joke in my first post and you didn't get it. Of course I don't think "laugh if you're scum" is an applicable scumtell on the forum, I was just explaining because I was sad that you didn't get the reference. Or maybe you did get the reference and I didn't get that your comeback was an acknowledgement of it (it didn't seem like it?).

---

#97 is the silliest post in the world but Waffles can be town for it.

---

In other news, I'll sheep the UT vote...
UNVOTE: ActionDan, VOTE: Untrod Tripod
...and see if I can figure out what the hell Fate is blathering on about. I only reread Balto on Friday but still...

[ChannelDelibird]

That's the least town thing I've posted, particularly if you've missed enough of the context to think it's silly. Why am I town for it?

I haven't missed any context. You may have posted townier things but that's the post of yours that was most recent when I was typing a reaction to the mollie thing so that's the one that got a comment. I don't think an explanation of why it makes you town would make up for the time spent typing in either scumhunting benefit or fun.

[ChannelDelibird]

How do you react to post 103 but not 100, mollie? I think you're ginormously obvtown by now so it would be great if you could do something more productive with your vote.

[ChannelDelibird]

and I don't respond to every post what are they again I will go look

I don't expect you to respond to every post. I was rather hoping that you were reading them in order, though. I think your response to 103 should and would have been different if you'd read 100. BUT WHATEVS.

If it's a choice between Waffles and UT, vote UT.

[ChannelDelibird]

This would all be much less confusing if we weren't all posting over each other. I'm going to go and eat a cookie. Luckily we already know what we need to know (mollie is town, Waffles is town) so maybe we can do some other stuff next.

[ChannelDelibird]

Reread the game. Most people are town. Scum probably haven't posted yet. *coughProzaccough*

[ChannelDelibird]

Why do you think mollie is obvtown?

Where Waffles sees rampant hostility, I see what I think is crossed wires from the two slots being on slightly different wavelengths. Mollie is eager and thinking and I had a pretty strong initial reaction to what seems like authentic freedom of thought.

Disclaimer: During the writing of this post (which took a while, my reaction is mostly 'gut borne from a notable recent period in which I played often with mollie' and therefore trying to define it satisfactorily) I doubted myself a bit but have decided that any discrepancies between this and what I would expect from mollie's town game can be explained by my not having seen her & some of the players with whom she is disagreeing play together on the forums before. I am satisfied with my townread for the time being and will reassess as necessary after more than enough time has passed for the current arguments to simmer down.

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, I hope your flavour is what I think it is.

[ChannelDelibird]

Lots of townreads. Probably (definitely) too many but that can be reevaulated later. I'm more open to the possibility of mollie being scum now than I was last time I checked in but I am certain that my read would benefit from significantly more time.

I kinda want to move my vote to Eaglekit even though they haven't posted yet. People who have posted but on whom I have not yet developed strong reads include: Cheery, UT, Nuwen, ActionDan.

I would like for Axxle to explain his vote on me.

[ChannelDelibird]

Short answer: I wanted to move my vote somewhere useful and wasn't feeling any of the other wagons.

Long answer: Originally I just sheeped fate since that's easy. But looking at the current wagons I feel a lot better about it. Didn't want to vote for someone without a vote already, that includes cheery who only has rvs votes and eaglekit who hasn't posted yet. I don't really want to bother with Eleven/mollie/waffles. Triforce just got here and seem fine. I'm not going to sheep YNGO. The UT votes seem lazy and you happen to be one of them. You have the biggest wagon already.

This is the answer I expected and it reinforces my tentative townread on you.

[ChannelDelibird]

Ah, sorry for missing that, Pie. The UT-over-Waffles thing was driven more by my townread on Waffles.

VOTE: ActionDan

[ChannelDelibird]

Voting me even though you implied you had scumread(s) earlier that weren't me.

Vote this to death people.

Er, WTF? Show your working. And bear in mind this, this and this.

[ChannelDelibird]

1st and 3rd links bear no relevance and the 2nd is the post I'm working off of. You have townreads and 4 listed no reads. Unless all you have is townreads which you don't you must have scumreads. Mollie was a former. You now vote a no read and not someone that you have a read on that isn't one of your town reads

First link shows that voting you is not a new thing; it's been on my mind.

Second link shows the group of people from which I wanted to vote (note that mollie is excluded from that list because of how I was just right there explaining how I think I'll be able to read her better given some more time), of which you are one. I simply don't believe that you think it's inconceivable that I didn't have any glaring scumreads to flag up at the time; you've played with me enough both face-to-face and on the forum to know better.

Third link shows that there was already a vote on you (from one of my townreads), thereby pointing to another part of why I went for you over, say, Nuwen or UT. The final part is that I think I'm more likely to be able to use my vote to develop a read on you than I am on Cheery.

[ChannelDelibird]

Since when does "have not developed strong reads on" equate to "want to vote" cdb?

Are you being intentionally obtuse? You are more than capable of understanding me when I say that all my strong reads are of the town variety, and that I therefore want to vote for someone not among those reads (we've explained why mollie is an exception for now). You should also know (or at least not be surprised to be receiving confirmation of previous patterns) that I always aim to be doing the most useful possible with my vote, particularly on Day 1, so I'm not just going to sit around without my vote on anybody until a scumread magically comes along. I put my vote where I think it is most likely to help me develop reads on people. In this case, for example, your bizarre attack on me is making me think scum more than it is town.

I don't know what nefarious thought process you think I am employing but, even if I've overestimated your ability to recognise my play, the people in this game who are best at reading me are among the ones with townreads on me, so that should tell you something if you're already confirmation-biased enough not to understand it from me.

[ChannelDelibird]

Iecerint, you leaving the Dan wagon for Gamma makes me confused and exasperated.

[ChannelDelibird]

Fate is right that Eaglekit's first posts are bad. More from them is another priority.

[ChannelDelibird]

It's the Gamma part that I find confusing and exasperating. I see nothing particularly worrying there and would be very surprised if you found any enthusiasm elsewhere that would cause the vote to have any real impact. Meanwhile, the Dan wagon is a bit light to sustain people hopping off for side projects.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hmm, OK, based on my memory of the Balto invitational (the most significant and possibly only? game I've played with Gamma on the forums), I had thought he was similar to his approach here, but a quick ISO check suggests that you are more right than I thought. I guess it's fine, then. I'm pretty sure I can't read Gamma for shit anyway. I'd still rather we weren't splitting up the only interesting votes on the board, though.

'Exasperated' may be a bit strong. I nearly used 'frustrated', which is probably more strictly accurate, but it's just not as enjoyable a word.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mollie, why do you think I am scum? I honestly don't understand how you could maintain the same reason for scumreading me as when you first placed the vote on me if you've read everything I've posted to you about it. It's such a non-issue.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mollie, I do still want you to explain why you think I'm scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mollie, I do still want you to explain why you think I'm scum.

because it made no sense that after you caught me out as scum in f2f that you would double down in

this

game with your vote shift

But I've already explained that that's not what's happening. I don't understand what thought process you think I was employing and why I'm more likely to be thinking that way than the simpler explanation of "it was a miscommunication" - let alone why that thought process is more likely to come from scum than town!

[ChannelDelibird]

how was it a miscommunication? walk me through it pretty plz

you said mollie if you are scum plz laugh

Yes. This was the beginning and the end of the joke. I said this as a jokey reference to the time when I said this to you at the meet and it did indeed catch you.

BUT we are on the forum, not IRL and therefore - obviously - I will have no idea whether or not you will physically laugh, plus this time because I am making a jokey reference, if you laugh it might be because of the memory and not that you've been caught out! All this I knew at the time that I posted - it was just a joke! If we were playing any other forum game together, I would not have even mentioned it - it is only because we are in the Reckoning invitational that I thought it would be fun to make the call-back.

and I didn't but I said you were applying the mina tell on me

You said it was Mina's tell, not yours, and the only reason I pressed the point about explaining that it had worked on you too was because I was disappointed that you hadn't remembered the memory I was referencing. I was NOT literally applying the tell to you because, as I keep saying, it was a joke.

and what I said is exactly what you caught me out as scum in f2f

You didn't say anything to which I could apply such a tell! It's a face-to-face-only tell!

[ChannelDelibird]

I feel like I should point out that I have, at some point in the last year or two, successfully attained the level of "can willingly sustain consistent posting as scum". My ego demands basic recognition.

[ChannelDelibird]

Cdb do you have an opinion on eleven and/or lets saaay nuwen?

Eleven is among my stronger townreads. I don't think I have learned to read Nuwen very well yet; she is currently in my 'don't know, would wagon' pile.

[ChannelDelibird]

Why do you think Axxle is scum, Prozac?

[ChannelDelibird]

There are plenty of reads to be had, Reck. Get over it.

[ChannelDelibird]

oh rly?

How should I read Ythan's six posts

He fucking dayvigged someone! You know him far better than me and, though there's not much, there's enough for me to form a provisional townread. I'm sure you can do better.

or EagleKit's like ten

I agree these guys are hard to read - but do you think they're being deliberately so? Why? They've commented almost exclusively on mollie, do you think scum or town are more likely to do that?

Yeah I'm not even going to do the last quote but, I'm sorry, there is definitely material with which to work here.

[ChannelDelibird]

Good catch, Triforce.

[ChannelDelibird]

In other news, ActionDan is scummy as fuck. Compare his posting here to, for example, the Balto invitational and notice how much less open he is here. Dan as town flits here and there, dealing out little posts with reads all over the place and generally making things happen. Here he made a show of sheeping the Overlords and has since lurked, aside from nonsensically bringing up a single non-issue with me. I think it's a pretty clear sign that he's more vulnerable and guarded in this game.

[ChannelDelibird]

cdb - I get the joke but not the vote shift. are you looking at me with scumcdb eyes????

OK, walk me through your end of this. What "vote shift" exactly are you seeing and why is it more likely to come from scum than town? My understanding was that the "vote shift" was because you thought I had a reason to vote you (the "tell") that we're now clear wasn't part of my scumhunting at all. What part of what I'm saying doesn't make sense?

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, you know what, never mind. I'm pretty sure we've had this exact sort of conversation before and I'm pretty sure we're both town. I'm just going to assume that you'll eventually come around and get on with other stuff.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yes, he said as much in the second paragraph.

[ChannelDelibird]

Nope, mollie, Dan is scummier. You know I don't go for blocs.

[ChannelDelibird]

walk me through it cos idgi

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5723941

[ChannelDelibird]

Eaglekit, could you get an avatar please? Should you not have one to hand, here's me removing the excuse.

[ChannelDelibird]

I agree with all of that except mebbe it is why he was a special?

Not sure I get what you're saying here.

did you just see that eagle things post and how can you find it not scummy

I saw it. I certainly haven't developed any kind of townread on Eaglekit yet but I'm not sure that I see any reason jumping out why their behaviour is particularly more likely to come from scum than town. I'm not going to fact-check things like them talking about the meta discussion with you and Waffles because that whole argument made me want to hit my head against a wall and I have no interest in revisiting it now. They're in my 'could vote' list, sure, but I have an actual scumread on Dan for actual reasons, while some of my townreads agree and support it, so I have no interest in moving my vote to Eaglekit.

PEDIT: What do you mean, why am I on about this? I'm on about it because he's my top scumread and I want him dead! Are you going to suggest that I'm somehow suspicious for my top scumread not being the same as yours? The same goes for the vast majority of this game!

[ChannelDelibird]

hey Pie

you know whose scumread on me is all kinds of shitty

ActionDan

[ChannelDelibird]

im voting cdb because his early posts seemed like they were trying pretty hard to do something in the early early game when it didn't seem completely appropriate and just kind of felt a little off and his thing with being frustrated with iec about me was a little gut scummy

Well, thank Christ someone finally articulated an actual reason for this suspicion on me. It is a relief.

Here's the thing, Gamma, I always make a point of trying too hard in early game to make things happen, especially when the game in general doesn't do a great job of making things happen on its own. I've got in trouble for it before, too. Here's a memorable example of me getting mislynched Day 1 for trying, but you could probably pick out more or less any game and see me explaining that I always look to make my vote as useful as possible as early as possible. I can't be arsed to do a full dive through my past games right now to illustrate this but I can do later if you would really like it.

[ChannelDelibird]

You have fun with your Reckoner vote, Fate. It's good to have a hobby. We'll see you on Day 2.

Getting townvibes from UT over the last page or so.

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB you too

where you at with this game? what are your leads?

let's compare notes

Sure. For reasons already stated, I think ActionDan is by far the best vote at the moment.

The next most acceptable vote, townread is decaying: Axxle
Null, need more time: Nuwen, Eaglekit
Null, chances are I'll never get a functional read: Cheery, Gamma, Triforce
Townread has faded but leaving the whole issue until tomorrow: Overlords
Town enough for now: UT, Pie, Ythan, Waffles, Prozac, Fate
Hard town: Eleven, Iecerint, mollie

[ChannelDelibird]

cdb were you in balto invitational and if yes did you have trouble reading me there?

Yes, I was in that game. I don't remember very much about your play but I see that I had you as town for most of the game, though I didn't talk about you a lot - can't remember the specifics of whether it was your behaviour, night actions/claims or ruling out buddies with flipped scum that prompted the read.

[ChannelDelibird]

I certainly can't read you for shit in face to face.

[ChannelDelibird]

i was dead on night 2 without claiming and no scum had flipped until that day so it's probably just the things i did in the game

Yeah, probably. I mean, I'll certainly let you know if I get a read on you either way here.

I did indeed (skim)read the whole game, just for a laugh. I really don't recall very much about the specifics of your game. I was surprised to check just now and see that I townread you so seemingly solidly. If you like I can try and reread you from there again but I'm not entirely sure what I would gain from it; presumably if something stuck out enough there I'll notice if something sticks out here eventually. I certainly don't have much on you either way at the moment.

[ChannelDelibird]

It just seems weird to me that you'd throw me in the 'never gonna have a read' pile if you've played with me at all before

Well, sorry. I know some of the Communists seem to have a pretty good handle on you but I have always found you to be largely an enigma in face-to-face mafia (99% of my experience with you). My abiding memories are the affable but inscrutable shrugs. Clearly we just need to play more games together.

[ChannelDelibird]

I believe the Triforce claim. Still confident that the Dan wagon must happen. Prozac is now in my 'hard town' list.

[ChannelDelibird]

Everyone indulging in mod-outguessing over possible alternative interpretations of Triforce's claimed role name can glug a nice refreshing can of shut-the-fuck-up juice. If I learned one lesson from the Balto invitational (and I did), it's that flavour is a bad influence.

Meanwhile AcscumDan continues to powerlurk and hope that we'll derplynch the survivor.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm of the opinion that we should lynch Triforce because this is a 40-page D1. them being third-party (or scum, although I don't see why they would claim something that'll be lynched eventually as scum...) is a bonus

This is exceedingly silly. A lynched survivor gets us sod-all information. It's even worse than lynching town in that respect, if we're just going to take all the intrigue out of it and policy-lynch a claimed third party.

I'm all for ending the day several pages ago but we can swing a lynch on plenty of people with haste, should we want to.

FOR EXAMPLE, ACTIONDAN

[ChannelDelibird]

yes, lynching a survivor IS WORSE THAN LYNCHING TOWN

in that respect

[ChannelDelibird]

Re: Gamma, on "information". I don't want "an information lynch". I want a scumlynch. It's just that, whoever we end up lynching for being the scummiest viable lynch, we can use their flip to look for buddies (if they flip scum) or look for people who knew they'd flip not-scum (if they flip not-scum). Lynching a claimed survivor takes away that benefit because everyone just going "OK, yeah, let's just lynch the claimed survivor" is a less interesting thought process to examine.

[ChannelDelibird]

The prosecution rests.

[ChannelDelibird]

In your few posts you focused solely on CDB

...badly. We shouldn't forget that part. Lots of people have spent time focusing on me. Dan did it

really badly

.

[ChannelDelibird]

PRRRRROOOOOZAAAAAAAAC!

Nuwen, why are Pie and Eaglekit scum?

[ChannelDelibird]

i'm more interested in why mollie is very much town

You're never getting a mollie lynch. Abandon all hope now and move on. Change the record. Take up a hobby.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm just rereading btw, will vote when finished.

[ChannelDelibird]

Reread complete.

VOTE: Axxle

PEDIT: Can I doublevote him please

[ChannelDelibird]

waiting for cdb to post about mollie before voting her

Why am I relevant in this?

[ChannelDelibird]

because him asking you about that and then thinking afterwards 'oh actually i should just vote mollie now' is a lot scummier than disagreeing with you and voting her in the same post

In #1087, when you said 'Axxle', did you mean 'UT'?

[ChannelDelibird]

IIRC Nuwen and some other people kind of ignored the ActionDan wagon for no reason and kind of pushed other things. I think this is the way to lynch today.

I will review D1 sometime and find these people.

I think Axxle is a pretty good example of someone with a pretty lame relationship to the Dan wagon.

[ChannelDelibird]

tbqh I don't really get the whole HE SAID CULT thing going on right now or why it matters

It doesn't matter. If UT were not participating in that mess, he would have told them that they were both pretty by now. Just two bullheaded players getting worked up about a miscommunication.

[ChannelDelibird]

Please don't actually make me tell you that you're both pretty.

[ChannelDelibird]

The "nah" is the only thing that makes me doubt the Axxle vote. I should probably reread his lynch in the Balto game again but I am sufficiently unhappy with the rest of his posts that I'm overlooking it for now.

Other votes that I would consider today include, in no particular order, Gamma and Overlords. Also, my Eleven read decayed from 'hard town' to 'not sure' overnight.

[ChannelDelibird]

Faraday, if you get to be "DUDE I'M FUCKING OBVTOWN WTF" (and, to an extent, you do get to be that way), then I also get to be that way. Because I am obv as fuck not Dan's buddy.

Cheery remains a super-null read for me. I guess I should specify seeing as he's not in my 'other plausible votes' list today. He's not become a townread since my last readslist.

[ChannelDelibird]

- he wanted to sheep us at the start of D1. Like, publicly. Aggressive sheeping. Are you saying that was scum buddying another scum? Seems unlikely.

I knew there was a reason why I had question marks on my notes about you guys as a vote today. This is why we start with Axxle instead.

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB you should post your notes. like now. in full

I pretty much already have. It's literally just a list of 'conceivable votes today' and 'conceivable busses on the lynch wagon' with no elaboration, picked up as I skimmed the thread just now. The only thing I haven't yet mentioned from it is that UT was on the 'conceivable busses' list but I don't think he's particularly compatible with some of my scummier reads so I'm not interested in going there today.

I am, however, flattered that you think I'd have a whole bunch of stuff written down which I wouldn't immediately write up in the thread to show off how good at this game I am.

[ChannelDelibird]

I hadn't actually seen anyone discuss anything about him

I really don't know how hard it could possibly have been to read my damn posts. I didn't wall or anything.

[ChannelDelibird]

CDB I was just curious because I attempted to start a notepad file D1 to keep running thoughts about the game but I'm pretty sure I deleted it already.

Meh. Running thoughts are overrated. Just skimreread every night that you need to and start from scratch.

Also, screw you, my posts are glorious.

[ChannelDelibird]

also cdb why am I not lynchable? you should be speedlynching me considering how bad I am at lylo and would you really want me around? (this is where I get weird on you)

Don't be silly. Why would I speedlynch you when you're obvtown? Because you might get LyLo wrong? How about we win before LyLo and remove such a problem?

[ChannelDelibird]

To answer your second point, yes, this is you getting weird. I have no earthly idea why you think I would want to lynch you for getting the Upick LyLo wrong.

[ChannelDelibird]

I can think of every reason you would want me around

Oh, what, you think my nefarious plan is to manipulate the game in such a way as to engineer a 3p LyLo with you as the confirmed town so that you

might

make the wrong choice and hand scum the win? Even if I were the kind of person who would be thinking that long-term as scum - which I'm not - that would be such a ridiculously precise aim as to be essentially completely inviable. I have no idea why you would default to thinking that I am trying to do something like that.

why was the me "getting weird about you" an afterthought

is it cos I am getting weird on you

I brought up the "getting weird about you" as a direct response to you thinking #1202 made me scum.

[ChannelDelibird]

I mean, if you want to start talking about the Upick, how about the fact that there's almost literally no difference in my behaviour from that game to this?

[ChannelDelibird]

/so defensive

a) Defensiveness is not a scumtell
b) I had a strong reaction because your thought process (or, at least, the thought process that I am assuming you are employing because you are not explaining what your actual thought process is) is nonsense, especially as I thought we'd made the breakthrough yesterday when you finally ended up townreading me

IDK what it is about my forum posts that you find so confusing but I genuinely have no idea why you are thinking what you are thinking.

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, well, let me know when you've come to your senses.

PEDIT: Who's eta?

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, OK. Well, as I've already said today, I am not sure on Eleven right now but there are a few other people I'd rather see wagoned. I don't think we're in a situation where going after one of the major presences on the Dan wagon makes an awful lot of sense as our next move.

Faraday, if you're seriously playing the "Prozac definitely bodyguarded me" card, you are officially breaking new ground for tenuousness.

[ChannelDelibird]

EBWOP: "Eleven", not "Faraday".

[ChannelDelibird]

In the absolutely most positive light towards supporting a theory of 'Prozac took a bullet for Eleven', Prozac's iso is inconclusive.

[ChannelDelibird]

Faraday, if you're seriously playing the "Prozac definitely bodyguarded me" card, you are officially breaking new ground for tenuousness.

That wasn't even me posting? Do I think it's likely? Uh, fairly? Who the fuck else would he protect? Fate maybe, you? I'd say I'm the mostly likely shot of the 3, but I'm biased but whatever.

Yeah, sorry, I realised as soon as I posted that it was KittyMo, hence the swift EBWOP.

However, I'd say Fate and Iecerint were definitely more likely targets, given his iso, and possibly-to-probably me as well. It's a really fucking weird conclusion for whichever of your heads to come to (especially with such ridiculous surety) because the most recent incident of him describing you guys as town is from a time when he also listed Dan in that list of town people.

You guys are allowed to call yourselves obvtown but let's not kama sutra the evidence, please.

[ChannelDelibird]

I see your point on Iec.

Eleven are back in my townpile.

Eleven, you should vote someone.

[ChannelDelibird]

Ythan and Waffles are both town. Ythan's role is apparently seriously weird but what kind of maniac scum counterclaims like that and I don't buy for a second that Waffles made that hider kerfuffle up nefariously. So they're weird but both town.

Mollie remains town. People voting her should stop.

AXXLE NEEDS TO DO SOME STUFF.

[ChannelDelibird]

Everyone stop talking.

Waffles and mollie, please finally take your own advice and stop interacting with each other for the rest of the Day. We might need you to engage in basic communication later in the game but, for now, for the love of all that is good and true, please stop.

Ythan: We are not lynching Waffles today because they could prove themselves at night (and be dead, sure, but that's still an OK outcome). That is something that is worth testing while we use our lynch more efficiently.

Axxle: Keep doing what you're doing, scumbag.

[ChannelDelibird]

No, Fate, we're not.

[ChannelDelibird]

Townread on Fate is definitely on the wane. He's probably on the list of people I could lynch today.

[ChannelDelibird]

Uh, molliue's still town right? I need validation, because I can't believe she's making some of the posts she's making. Tell me it's gonna be okay.

I think it is going to be OK. I still think mollie is town.

[ChannelDelibird]

FWIW Fate I'm more likely to vote Overlords than Waffles.

[ChannelDelibird]

Fate, tell me why you don't approve of the Axxle wagon, because I don't understand people who are townreading him.

[ChannelDelibird]

I've wanted Axxle dead long before the Waffles vote.

I don't really see what you see in that other stuff. The most I can concede, really, is that I have a lot of townreads elsewhere which makes me want to POE him a bit.

[ChannelDelibird]

I don't believe that "I have too many townreads ergo Waffles is the main one that's wrong" makes sense. My townreads aren't all built around Waffles and their claim. They've been there for a long time. I'm more likely to go and look at my weaker townreads for evaluation (hi).

[ChannelDelibird]

Yeah I'm probably wrong to doubt Fate. I'm just annoyed because the Waffles votes are so bad.

Re: 1588, my mistake, thought you were trying to convince me otherwise rather than start a "you're wrong, no you're wrong" thing.

Eleven, maybe you can make me feel better about Axxle. I'm definitely not voting Waffles or mollie today and Nuwen seems like a bit of a random lynch. You've townread Axxle for a while, why should I? And, if so, where should I be voting instead?

[ChannelDelibird]

Really, Fate? You think it's 2-2-1-14 with a town DAY-AND-NIGHT vig?

Nope. I am never buying that.

[ChannelDelibird]

You know what, fuck it, fine, we'll do it this way.

VOTE: Your New Gay Overlords

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm pretty tired and unenthused for mafia right about now so I'm going to leave questions/criticisms for tomorrow. This means that I will either do exactly as I've just said or go on a solve-the-game note-taking rampage in about half an hour. Wait and see, I guess.

[ChannelDelibird]

Worry not, mollie, I'm not giving up. I've just had a long day at work and this game is not in a straightforward situation. I'm reading tonight, I'm just not doing the work that it needs tonight.

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, Reck, let me tell you about my thought process today. I'm pretty sure this is all stuff that has, at most, been pretty easily deducible given what I've already written today, but I can appreciate that :BIGPILEOFPOSTS: may have got in the way.

At the start of the Day, I ruled all of the following people out as people that I was willing to touch today with regards to voting: Iecerint, Eleven (minus that weird episode), Ythan, Waffles, mollie, Fate.

That left me with: Overlords, Cheery, UT, Gamma, Pie, Nuwen, Axxle, Eaglekit.

Of that group, I can't read Cheery, Gamma or Nuwen very well at all, although on my early Day 2 reread I decided that Gamma's stuff re: Dan made him an option I'd be willing to explore today. Nuwen's looking townier to me now but that's after my vote on you IIRC so at the time she was still a pretty 'meh' option as I didn't have much either way.

So I'm left with Overlords, Gamma, UT, Pie, Axxle and Eaglekit. I had a mild townping on Pie Day 1 so I ignored him (although right now I'm scanning his iso and I'm wondering if this isn't one of the townreads I should be revisiting). UT is an acknowledged possible but, as I've said, I'm not sure he meshes well with some of those other people on the list as buddies, so we leave him for a while as well.

So then I've got Overlords, Gamma, Axxle and Eaglekit. Of the four, I want to lynch Axxle the most, but a bunch of people who I think are town keep telling me Axxle is also town. I'm thinking back to the Balto game and I'm thinking, man, we did mislynch Axxle. I was kind of not around for that Day when it happened but I guess this is the sort of behaviour for which he might have been lynched then? So I want other options. Meanwhile Gamma and Eaglekit don't have a lot of support and they're not being discussed right then and there as a lynch candidate.

Now, yes, the thing about ActionDan immediately sheeping you gave me pause. I wrote question marks in my notes because I was thinking "would Dan do this to a scumbuddy?" and my gut answer was "maybe, but it seems more like an awkward interaction with a town player". HOWEVER. Now I'm thinking about my own logic and I realise that it's not like he's chosen to do that with youTown as opposed to some other scumbuddy instead. You're the only player with Overlords in your name. The choice for Dan is not "do I do this interaction with town or scum?", it's "do I do this interaction with Overlords as opposed to doing something else?" and, given that he was scum, it's a good enough opportunity to explicitly not do anything less brainless that I think he would have taken it regardless of your alignment, and therefore I don't really think that it's a reason to rule out voting for you anymore.

And that's how I got to an Overlords vote. I must say I'm liking your recent posting but, as is often the case when playing with you guys*, every time I turn to someone about whom I'm starting to worry, I see some enthusiastic posts or some such and I doubt myself. You can't all be earnest town! (*Anyone remember my vote history on Day 2 of Balto? Because I do.)

So what I intend to do, probably tomorrow but maybe in like 5 minutes considering that I've now kinda started by writing this post, is to go through the whole fucking game again, look fresh, try to ignore all the shiny words from all the shiny persuasive people, and decide where my best vote is all over again. I'm not sure it's going to end up on you, but it might. I'm not in love with your claim but I don't hate it as much as others. I'm not in love with your approach today but I don't hate it as much as others.

Also I'm town because I'm not ActionDan's buddy.

And this had better be one of my posts that you actually read because goddamnit you made me wall.

[ChannelDelibird]

Reck (although Tammy says this is different from his Red Wedding scum play)

I've been thinking about that game a lot regarding Reck and one of the conclusions to which I have come is that he would almost certainly have to play differently here than in that game because of the respective playerlists.

---

Doing that big old read now. I regret doing it this late but I've started so I'll finish.

[ChannelDelibird]

Ugh. I don't like breaking this up halfway through the game but I'm too tired to do Day 2 as well and I need to write what I have up before I lose my train of thought because of sleep. I've reread Day 1 to look for people I might want to lynch today, and I will be covering Day 2 tomorrow. How that will affect the reads that are here, I'm not sure, but I'm going to use the below as a starting point.

--

For one thing, I now think that Axxle is probably town. I also think Nuwen is looking prrrreettty town. There remain a few things about UT that bother me but I still think he'd be a really strange fit for a buddy for almost anyone so I'm not going there still. But I mainly want to talk about the two main scumreads to come out of this reread; Overlords and Pie.

Spoiler: Overlords

Tammy thinks that Reck's behaviour is unlike Red Wedding Mafia. Hmm. While I agree that it's definitely toned down from that game - I think as a result of the playerlist knowing him better - there are parts of his early game play that remind of me of his scum play there. There are also the following more concrete problems I have:

Triforce brought this up and Reck followed it up with this response but I this feels like a bullshit, after-the-fact explanation to cover a mistake to me.

This is deliriously fence-sitty when I feel like Recktown would have a stronger opinion either way on something like 'do we lynch a claimed survivor on Day 1?'. It's a policy question, and I don't buy that the claimed doc protect made such a difference to his thinking as to create such noncommittal confusion.

Then there's the claim. I dunno. I certainly don't think it makes me lean town on them particularly but I can't make a convincing argument to myself that it makes them scummier. It's plausible-ish (tbh I don't really remember Magua getting constantly lynched on Day 1 as a thing but presumably there's a good chance someone submitted it as nobody else has freaked out) but I am entertaining the thought that a mafia beloved princess might be a nice bonus for a scumteam who were facing a town with two vigs (essentially three, given Ythan). I am also entertaining the thought that the only thing better than a Mafia Day 1 beloved princess in that scenario is an any-day mafia beloved princess. That much is definitely a long shot and I'm not going to treat it as any more than such but if anyone is the sort of player who would make up that kind of role/gambit, Reck would be my nomination. Of more mundane concern is the fact that the BP claim is kind of convenient given the hammerer role (bear in mind that, in designing both of those as town roles, you would have to expect both to end up claiming on day 1 because claiming hammerer is the best town play for that role).

Case for the defence:

This post has a reasonable level of authenticity behind it which supports the notion that Overlords are telling the truth about the town PM stuff.

Spoiler: Pie

People who know Pie well, should I be worried about this post being kinda unhelpful and white-noisey or is this another Axxle case?

There are plenty of other things that I do believe are scummy, however...

The vote on me here is kind of mechanical and lame.

He jumps on a Nuwen point on Triforce with a cloying agreement that I don't find particularly believable. It's pretty opportunistic.

Now he thinks I'm town again and he thinks that there's a good chance that there are scum among those pushing my wagon at this point. But we never see Pie follow this up and look into who's the scum on my wagon.

And here's the worst one for me. That previous link shows that Pie thinks I'm, at the very least, not scummy. But then I point out that ActionDan's scumread on me is terrible - truly terrible, as I have already explained at this point - and he's like "well I see where he's coming from". What? I can't believe I didn't press this at the time. Day ends before Pie can have a chance to rectify his position while Dan is alive so all we have is a genuinely terrible defence of an obviously scummy player.

UNVOTE: Overlords
VOTE: Pie

Day 2 to be reread tomorrow. Could end up moving my vote again but I think the biggest unanswered questions right now are about Pie.

[ChannelDelibird]

Skype mafia ate my game time tonight; I will have to complete my reread tomorrow. Apologies.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hi guys! Busier start to the week than I expected. Catching up ASAP.

[ChannelDelibird]

After asking AP for permission to give him a drunken pat on the head and doing so

...did I do that?

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh yes, I forgot to say earlier: Thanks so much to the mods! I really enjoyed all the flavour.

Apologies for flaking - one of those where if I'd checked the site before a shift rather than afterwards I would have been able to stay in and catch up but, of course, my own fault for the interim and so on. Despite the drama, I enjoyed having the chance to play with all of you again and hope to do it again sooner rather than later. Thank you for lynching Pie like I was getting around to asking.