NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[mastin2]

Yo.

I have a proposal: larges these days have exploded in length. I am proposing we limit posts per person to be five a day, to see if we can get the shortest recent large game.

Your entrance to this game is not genuine.

*yawn* Actually I know more folks playing here than I realised, so -general hello- and down to business.
@Mister, not genuine

how

?

Vote: talah

.
(Rogers is town.)

Vote: Doc Holliday

DV's town, too.

I'm town.

Fixed that for him. (He is.)

In other news I like being out of rvs within 3 live posts. While its sort of forced (what super early day 1 case stuff isn't) I still like rogers better for it.

I'm scum.

Lemme guess: "reaction testing"?

vote: bjc

There you go, now you can call me scum for "taking the bait".

ThAdmiral, you are a

boss

. (Of course he is, being an admiral means being a boss of a lot of captains! But seriously, ThAd's town.)

I'm scum.

There is no legitimate purpose to this as Town. bjc is either scum or not worth listening to. Obtuse gambits are anti-Town.

Sticking with talah for now, but this deserves a vote later.

This is probably scum, too, though not certainly so.

hyperagressive scum?

No, I actually think Rogers is being reasonable (not hyper-aggressive). He's one of my strongest townreads already.

Doc's RVS vote was bad and the vote by Deas was something i would have done too . But his posts afterwards read town to me .
Bjc already looks like he is going to be a lynch bait here .
Talah is bad all over . He has one decent post explaining his decisions otherwise he has been bad all over .

Also town.

Vote: Doc

Probably town.

I'm scum.

What a peculiar post. No meaning, no purpose, no humour. Everything else in this game thus far is smoke clouding my vision.

Vote: bjc

This, however, is definitely scum. You want a town voting bjc? (Or, at the least, more likely to be town.) Look at PV's. That, genuine-or-at-least-appearing-so. This, not so much.

Hi, hello.

Vote: Damon Grant.

You're going to have to excuse me for being stupid here. The only point I see zdenek making about me is "#4", which you'll forgive me if I don't find it to be spectacular analysis. Obviously I'm missing something here so can someone explain it to me? I'll pre-emptively point out that I barely read the post I was supposed to be sheeping. Honestly,

there's only so much one can say about a post that says "I'm scum", so it's unsurprising we have similar things to say about it.

And yes, I guess I did overjustify my absence which is turning out not to be so much so anyway thanks to this nifty iPad keyboard I got today. I appreciate the birthday wishes, even if they are laced with poison!

Why say anything about it even? It looks like you just picked up the easiest thing to comment and base a vote on and didn't even bother to read the posts after it. It looked like posting just for the sake of posting, as if you just wanted to blend in.

The defensive tone of this post also bothers me.

Also town.

[mastin2]

Secondly why are my and Mister's interactions town vs scum? Do you think I fooled Mister to the point where he's no longer voting me - meaning he's town and his push was good but he's wrong?

Yeah, you're scum. This line of thought simply doesn't come from a town player. Town player? "Why do you think Rogers is town? Why do you think I'm scum?" Scum player? "Why do you think our interactions are town vs. scum?" (Making an assumption that interactions have anything to do with the read. They might contribute to the overall picture, but are largely irrelevant.) "...Also, he unvoted me; surely that makes him either scum or wrong." (That's essentially what talah's saying, here.)

Talah was a scumread for much of the reasoning Rogers presented, though my own wording is slightly different--basically, there's nothing genuine about talah's posting; it's hollow, shallow, easily faked and overall just feeling plain empty. He's playing a highly-reactionary game rather than a proactive one, and overall, he feels like he's not scumhunting; he feels like he's trying to get a feeling for how to manipulate players.

2) Mastin -- A) How does Thad get a townread for his BJC vote?

Because that post was insanely town. He had fun, he did some prodding, he was doing analysis, and you could tell it came from a town player cruising, rather than a scum player coasting. There was stuff in there. Good stuff.

B) How does Aptil get a townread for throwing around opinions but no vote for his scum suspect? I mean how on its face does that make him town??

Because I've had experience with aptil, and combining my experience with him and the fact that it was the way he voiced his opinion, and you've got a mindset which is solidly, SOLIDLY town.

@Mastin: Please add to that C) How does Luca get a townread for a naked Doc vote?????????????

Because the naked Doc vote was an insanely town move?

OMGOSH. Mastin is voting Talah with his SCUMREAD.

Read my stance on Doc again.

Doc, scummy. Talah, scum. Doc could be scum. Talah

is

scum. Also, even if scum, there is such a thing as bussing. Especially in the RVS.

That said, while talah's scum...
VOTE: Damon Gant.
...My scumread here is much, much stronger.

[mastin2]

mastin I *knew* that I could get a good read on you based on your entrance. Your town and scum entrances are

vastly

different even though you don't seem aware of the differences.

Yeahno. You're not a player who can read me, and attempting to pretend you are makes you scum.

In the last game we played together where we hydra'd, I understood your reads *immediately*.

And you not doing so now is a problem on your end, not mine. My reads? Make sense. Yours? Don't.

I expected you to enter the thread with either slight disdain for my aggression or a hearty 'hullo' and you've done neither.

*points to previous vote*

You've not tried to connect with me; not tried to *get* a read on me - you've simply said I'm scum and voted me.

And your reaction solidified it. My vote on you? Weak gut read at first. I bolded it rather than using vote tags for dang-good reason. I didn't like what you entered with. I voted you. And now? Now, you're doing this.

Can you point out instances of this, or are you happy to simply to cast a huge aspersion on my character without explaining your own thinking?

And you continue to be scum. If you knew me half as well as you're pretending? You'd already know I have trouble explaining these things. In theory, yes, I can. Yes, I may try. But no, it won't be a perfect explanation, because the words are difficult to verbalize.

[mastin2]

Unless you're prepared to back them up where a direct question is asked, they're inauthentic.

Like hell they are. As I said, if you're so much as half as familiar as you claim to be with my meta, you'd know: scum-me can justify literally any read

specifically because they're faked

. Rather, because a scum me already knows the answer, I can fill in the gaps much more effectively, to present a clearer train of thought. So much so, that literally every single game where I was logically in the superior was a scumgame, and essentially every "guys, just...trust me, okay?" game is town.

Why didn't you *try* to form a read on me?

I did. It was a bad one. See here? The original post?

Your entrance to this game is not genuine.

*yawn* Actually I know more folks playing here than I realised, so -general hello- and down to business.
@Mister, not genuine

how

?

Vote: talah

.
(Rogers is town.)

Where do I call you scum? I call Damon scum. I even call Doc likely scum. Where do I call you scum in there? Do I? No. I don't. Because I found your entrance to be scummy, and voted you for it, to see how you reacted. Your reaction? To OMGUS-suspect me and toss out BS about my play that simply isn't true.

Are you basing your read because I called you scum from your entrance? Is that a mastin reason to have a scumread?

Given my reputation?

Hell. Yes.

Scumreading me for my entrance is enough of a reason to be suspicious of someone else.
(...
...The irony does not escape me.)

If I'm scum fo' sho' - why not get me lynched so you can be vindicated obvtown?

For starters?
1: There's more than one scum in the game.
2: I AM willing to hand out benefit of the doubt some times (see above, on the irony bit), and
3: My scumread on Damn is much stronger than my scumread on you (even though my scumread on you is far from weak).

Contrary to what you're presenting, you're an excellent orator, so it should be no problem for you to iterate specifics in my "case".

Of course I'm an excellent orator; that's why my scumplay is as good as it is. Seriously, every scum win of mine is through creating a narrative, painting the picture that I want it to. No, I am most certainly NOT a good orator as town, because I don't have the whole picture. Just fragments of it that I struggle to piece together. And you're presenting my play as if I've put no effort into that, when I already have. It's right there, in my posting.

[mastin2]

Mod: V/LA for the next week. ESPECIALLY Thursday-Sunday.

My grandmother's dieing. She's in a coma, and fading fast. She's the relative I go to visit in southern Oregon each year, meaning that when I go down there, I'm obviously going to be V/LA, emphasis on the Limited Access. I'll do what I can to keep playing, though.

how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?

Prolly cuz posts like this.

^That. Don't remember if I was townreading you or not, but I am now.

Now trying to spoonfeed us what her meta is.

I never bring up my meta unless someone else brings up an erroneous version of it, like talah did. Regardless of alignment, I don't fight meta that's correct (even if the conclusion is wrong--yes, it is possible to be right on meta yet wrong on the read, because a town-me evolves [and even frequently incorporates successful elements of my scumplay into my towngame!] and a scum-me is capable of mimicking my townplay fairly accurately); regardless of alignment, I will shoot down meta that is wrong.

To give my most recently-completed towngame, look at Tales of Vesperia, the Wallduskkel hydra. It should be fairly obvious which posts are me and which came from Ald. It's not the best game to meta me off of (there are much better ones), but it's the most recently completed game, giving you the most contemporary meta I have.

You're going to have to explain the whole "Talah

is

scum" but "My scumread here (damon gant) is much, much stronger".

Scales of scumread? Doc is minor. Talah was medium-strong. (Now is weak-at-worst. Give me a while to mull it over.) Damon is super-mega-basically-confscum-strong.

No way mastin. (But I don't mind wagonning people and lynching someone and not drawing day one out to 100 pages for instance.)

(For the record? Do the math on 5 posts per day in a 20 player game with two weeks. It's ~70 pages.)

I think that Mister Rodgers is town. There's opportunistic scum and then there's the kind of town who plays on the offensive, "I want to win so badly!' mode. It seems pretty blatant that Mr. Rodgers is an alternate account who is trying to come off as very confident. In terms of getting him read successfully - it works. I'm pretty sure that he's town, but I don't exactly agree with all of his analysis.

Townread on Zdenek. Townread on DeasVail. Tentative townread on bjc. Tentative townread on RachMarie.

I know most of you are calling out Damon Giant for voting bjc, but [Doc's] post is actually a

worse

sin. This looks like a way for Doc to essentially give himself wriggle room to vote BJC later in the game. The rest of his play hasn't given me much of an indicator of his alignment, though.

Pretty dang certain this slot's town. (Though, I still prefer Molla. Molla, I can obvtown. You, not so much.)

Damon gant - There's something about the way he posts that screams slightly-inexperienced town. Stubbornly going after bjc, questioning zdenek for accusing him of being scum without any explanation. town

Look at his joindate, ThAd. Damon's had plenty of games; he's anything but inexperienced.

Whelp

Yeah, while I suppose it's possible Mr. Chemist here knows the routine with daykill claims, if so, that's a

wonderful

job on having hidden it; it

really

looks genuine.

This is important and needs responding to.

Fairly certain I already did? There's less than a handful of people who really get me as a player. Like, literally, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is AP. There's others, of course, but he's the only one in my mind who has that 100% accuracy. Others have tried, and scum have claimed they can, but they either failed or lied.

So I feel like at least we have an amiable connection to the point where if mastin's town, I'd like to work with her, and I'd think that she'd be far more cautious and wanting to determine my alignment rather than just dropping a vote on me and then telling me I know virtually nothing about her.

Point for consideration: it might seem like it's impossible, but I, uh...actually forgot who you were until you reminded me. Rather, I knew, "oh, talah, I actually know him" (a significant portion of this playerlist, I do not), but forgot the details. I remembered you being in Gundam (not that you were awesome--that I also forgot), but had totally forgotten we hydraed. I vaguely recalled you being decently good, but that's about it.

You seem way more focused/calculating as scum.

Yeah, I'm fairly good as scum. However, I'm not nearly as good this year at it as I was last year. In 2013, I had a decent towngame and a solid, SOLID scumgame. This year, my towngame has been meh-at-best so far, and my scumgame's also taken a severe hit in strength, too. I suspect both actually have a root in the same problem: people are expecting my play to be more than it actually is, assuming I'm better than I actually am, alignment-regardless. Heck, even my theory capacities have gone downhill; it's been three months, and there's barely been a ping on me making an MD thread so far. (Well, there has been, but I need to refine the idea so that it doesn't send off the wrong message of condoning something rather than the intended effect of potentially offering an explanation for said something.)

(Yates is town, by the way. His stances don't come from scum, like...at all.)

[mastin2]

Awkwardly enough, my V/LA is lessened to on-guard rather than immediate-emergency due to a very bad line of communication starting from someone who is prone to overreacting and panicking rather than from an actual trained medical professional, which thanks to third-hand communication, I was not aware of. Sooooooo, not true V/LA but possible V/LA.

@Mastin- your posts look like scum-Mastin.

Wut.

Normally [dayvig gambits] read contrived to me but I like this one.

^That. I really liked both players involved.

I don't feel you can adequately assign alignments to reactions-to-bjc without assigning a bjc alignment (without MSU).

You

can

, but it's more effective if you have a read on bjc. I do; town.

I might read Doc's post later. I'm a bit concerned that the first read I actually agree with is PV and the following Doc read. (I also agree with the DV townread.) I agree with the bjc townread, but that's a lot of words for ThAd to only be null and not town, and I'll need to read to see why talah's strong town, since I really don't get that one.

Which continues into the next. I don't understand the 4nx read. I don't see why Damon's just null and not scum. I also don't get the leaning scumread on me. Basically, the only reads I agree with are Zdenek, Snow, Chem, Yates (and he's a stronger-than-nulltown read), and Matt (same). And he takes back the Yates read the very next post. And the PV one, too[/ur;]. It's deeply, deeply concerning to me, considering that I was synching up fairly well overall with him earlier in the game.

HOW WELL

DO

YOU KNOW MASTIN TALAH?

Well enough to know what my preferred pronoun is.

(Also, happy scumday, matt.)

Very bad entrance; very good entrance.

Mastin where are you.

Tired, exhausted, and going to leave the other six pages for later today, after I've rested my mind a bit. Actually, make that six and a half. I'll continue reading from that post.

[mastin2]

I realize that this game needs me, but right now, my focus is largely elsewhere. I'll do what I can to get caught up, though.

[mastin2]

Yes, I suck.
No, this game's not a top priority of mine, in spite of how little contributions I have made.
Yes, I have the free time to read all sixty pages.
No, I won't actually read all sixty pages, because doing so requires more willpower than I can muster. (I've got nothing but free time, right now. Basically, for the entirety of the week, I've got essentially ~12 hours free each day, more than enough to catch up. It's just that I know me well enough to know that I'd never actually do so. I'd try. I would. Really, really would. But after five or so pages, I'd stop, take a break, and not come back until a later time, by which there are likely six or seven new pages for me to read.)

Soooooooooo...right now, treat me as if I'm replacing in, without having read a thing. That's basically where I am, anyway. I remember nothing about this game other than that I'm in it. Basically, I'm posting this. I'll be reading the content on the latest page. And I'm going to ask of all of you to give me a basic summary of the events in this game, and key things I should focus on.

[mastin2]

Luca Blight [9 votes] (4nxi3ty, projectmatt, Damon_Gant, Nero Cain, DeasVail, RachMarie, Yates, Zdenek, talah) [L-2]
talah [6 votes] (AngryPidgeon, penguin_alien, PeregrineV, SnowStorm, aptil, Luca Blight)

Let's start here. I remember both of these being townreads when I was here before. Why are we wagoning them?

[mastin2]

Disappointed with mastin right now. Very much.

Oh, believe me. You're not the only one. Nobody here can be more disappointed in me than I can be of myself. But I know me well enough to know that attempting to read all sixty pages is going to be suicide for me. It'll kill my slot. Not by lynch. Certainly not by nightkill. But by content. I go read the past pages, I get stuck in the past, and never get back to the present. It's never worked. Believe me, I've tried. I've always failed.

So if you've got something important in those sixty pages, point me to it. I'll read it. I'll listen to it. Otherwise, I'm here in the now. 'Cause that's the only way I'll be able to effectively play.

I have a day cop guilty on Luca but *some people* doubt my claim

I AM willing to sheep you, Nero, but I need some idea of where you're coming from. Can you give a reads list? Preferably with reasoning attached (especially on Luca), though that's optional. I need to know what you're seeing.

Mastin, I'm town. Sheep me on this one please.

If not Nero, you'd be the first for me to sheep. But I need to know where you're coming from, too.

I take it Snork's an alt of someone like ETL who erroneously hero-worships me. Butyeah, AP's right. This game's not my top priority. No, I'm not going to read 60 pages, because that will kill my slot even worse than it already is. That doesn't mean no effort at all. I'm talking to people right here, right now. I'm playing in the present, not the past. Which means I'm playing from page 60 onward, referencing previous pages only on specific request to do so.

[mastin2]

Everyone's reads on mastin that aren't "Don't know" at this point a re a joke, so don't feel betrayed yet.

Actually, it'd probably be better as "don't know, but lean towards town". I lurk as town or scum, I fall behind as town or scum, and it's largely indicative of my mental health (degenerating FAST--I've got an appointment on Thursday that can't come soon enough) rather than my alignment, but that said, I DO give more attention to my scumgames in spite of the mental health than my towngames, because my scumgames are where I'm more important. As town, my analysis is averaging mediocre. I'm certainly not going to give much unique insight, especially not if the town's got a lot of strong players I respect alive and hunting, which is why I generally give 'em less effort. Because when others have the chance to shine, I let 'em shine. It's only when they need me that I really begin to up my game.

As scum, I don't have that luxury; nullreads become scumreads far, FAR too quickly, so I need to stay more engaged in the game. So while I may neglect games as both alignments, the neglect is generally worse for towngames than scumgames, thanks to the number of players on my team.

[mastin2]

Also Mastin had a scum read on Talah me thoughts but is not calling it town.

?

I replaced bjc. Read my ISO if none else. I've commented on almost every event and interacted with most everyone.

'kk, will do, in a bit. Got other obligations I'll need to attend to first, though. (And, yes, for some reason, your tone does in fact remind me of ETL. Dunno why, just does. At the very least your "he" feels like it's false and that it's a female scummer behind the keyboard. Have no clue what gives me that impression. The kinda-sorta-hero-worship certainly contributes to that, too. If not ETL, it still feels like you're a scummer who knows me, and who I know and respect. Of which, there's only a handful that I can see posting like you. Less than ten, maybe even only ~5 or so. ETL's among the list.)

[mastin2]

5) Mastin's glorious return and CONVENIENT hard reset of her scumread on Talah that she had before and in fact is now asserting Talah was TOWN rather than CANT REMEMBER or NULL??

...Yes? I remember having a townread on talah. I apparently didn't.

No, you're insane.

(Which is generally a towntell.)

In particular I think Talah is trying to tie me to mastin by encouraging me to take an early read on her (and obviously I was scumreading Talah at the time and more likely to find mastin town by default).

Which is likely to come from scum trying to make you read a town player, not a scum player.

VOTE: talah.

MASTIN GET BACK HERE AND DO SOMETHING MEGATOWN ASAP TIA.

Screw that. Megatownning myself intentionally is a scumtell. You either see me as town or you don't.

[mastin2]

Null/very weak town: pisskop (replaced Doc Holiday), DG,
Dead null: BPC
Null/very weak scum: Nero, DV
Probably scum: RM, aptil
Scum: ThAd

These need a whole heck of a lot more explanation.

ThAd needs more context. Rach is always a low-contributor in games; you have to read the mindset, not the content. Aptil is a newb, who I have a decent ability to read. Nothing about BPC looks like scum to me. Nero and DV also don't look like scum, 'specially not Nero. (I can read Nero fairly well, and this is his townplay.) The DG/pisskop reads also need explanation.

To be honest I think I've made my bed with this one, it's my own fault if I get lynched, I take full responsibility.

I would be favourable to a quick-wagoning of Rach, but from the general perspective of the town either me or Talah (VT v VT claims) is going to be the best bet, and as I have already given my vote to Talah there isn't a lot more I can do!

I started the game lazily, but in a way where if I was another player, I would look at me and think "yeah, that guy must be town, he just doesn't give a f*ck!".

Clearly this tactic has backfired, but as others seem to agree I feel there is definitely some scum on my wagon, so when I'm gone go and hunt them down!

Okay, guys. This is insanely town. Why do you want it dead, exactly?

If anything I think she's sheeping AP, which ultimately is a VERY BAD MOVE for town-mastin, if you're reading.

It's a bad move regardless of AP's alignment. Town-AP

is

prone to make errors, like in The Fall, where I did sheep him essentially. So I do take his reads with grains (plural!) of salt. But he's also an overall solid scumhunter, one of the better ones on the site, which is why I don't carelessly discard his reads, either. But right now, my reads aren't sheeping his at all. If they line up, that's good, and also a sign of us both being town, but I assure you, I'm not following him right now.

(For the record--talah looks town for this post, too.)
UNVOTE: Talah.

unvote, vote: aptil

Nooooo. Im not having another street racers: Las Vegas.

Anxiety could just be scum, you know.

Vote: 4nxi3ty

.
For the moment.

Got a few pages to catch up on still. (And this is why I didn't decide to read all sixty.)

[mastin2]

Mastin I do understand that you are having issues with reading all the pages, with the consideration of time limit to deadline, maybe just focus on stuff regarding the two main wagons? That should at least give you some reads and something to discuss.

Assessment: they both suck. We need another option.

Your alignment is irrelevant to this. Your short-sightedness is that you fail to see how people might prefer a Luca lynch to a talah lynch. Also, talah, if you're town, get that vote off yourself. If you don't want to play anymore, then vote Luca, see how the day pans out and then replace out tomorrow if that's still the case. Don't screw the game up.
As I've said before, I will do what's necessary to avoid a no lynch, and that includes moving my vote to talah. However, for now I see no need to do this and instead would call on those who are not on talah or Luca to choose between these, because we're not lynching anyone else today. A vote elsewhere is a vote for no lynch, which is a horrible outcome for town.

Damon's scum, talah/Luca's alignments regardless. Luca's definitely not scum. talah

could

be, but this doesn't come from a town player.

/65.

[mastin2]

I also think his self-voting is purely manipulative, especially in light of wanting the town to get information from the lynches.

Self-voting manipulative, sure, but that's the TOWN manipulation. If talah had a major-near-100% town/scumread (or better yet, both), he'd have pulled off a classic Mastin gambit. He could be scum manipulating, but I sincerely doubt that.

meh

vote: Talah

more than willing to switch to Luca if it makes it further

Yep. This? This is scum.

Talah and Luca are both town. Damon and anxiety are both scum.

I know it's an unpopular position on this site but I'd literally rather no-lynch than lynch someone I think is town.

fuck it I'd rather talah stay around than luca

vote: luca

Lucy. You've got some 'splainin' to do.

[mastin2]

I kind of like talah's posting. mastin's entry doesn't feel right. I like BipolarChemist townreading RachMarie early, given that scum might not make the effort to see that it's her town game. I'm not town reading Yates, which worries me. Usually his town game feels very town to me, but he's more organized and methodical than I've come to expect from him as town. Not to say that he isn't good as town, but he feels very removed from his points here. I want to read AP as town, but he feels kind of overblown in his his entrance posts. Looking down the line again, I get the sense that he's pushing a lot with smoke and mirrors.
Screw it, I don't like the leading wagons.

Yates asked me about Zdenek and pisskop. Zdenek's posts come off as having town motivations. pisskop, less so, but his train of thought as he posts reads as more organic than I'd expect from scum. I don't think he was this loose in Newbie 1462, overall impression. I don't have him as clear town, but I wouldn't lynch him today.

I'd deadline lynch Luca over talah right now for contribution levels/likelihood of being able to read them down the line.

Catch up got delayed with vacation activities, so the game's kind of percolating in my head right now. I like PV for town, and I like some of 4nxi3ty's posts for their willingness to take information and apply context, as when he sorts lurkers beyond, 'scummy, kill.' Also generally think I like ThAd, nothing specific yet.

Town. (Which is an assurance that she's actually scum. )

[mastin2]

Mastin, do you have anything to add?

Does "I shoulda been here sooner to stop the idiocy from piling on, it's probably too late by now, but if it wasn't too late, I'd be flashwagoning Damon" count?

[mastin2]

VOTE: Damon Gant.

It's not vanity.
It's

sanity

.

[mastin2]

Vote: RachMarie

Semi-meaningful, mainly for her awful hop onto the Luca wagon, but I will be reevaluating my positions in this game properly in the next 24 hours or so.

Yep, this is scum.

Mastin, talk to me about Damon. Im wondering if he hasn't been a huge blind spot in my peripheral.

If he's anything but a scumread, yeah, he's been a blindspot of yours. Dude's pure scum. However...

vote: aptil

for using deadline as an excuse to not post content (and that felt hammer felt like a kneejerk reaction to being pressured)

post 1733-1734 by mastin feel like trying to paint me, damon, and thad badly for the incoming mislynches. Although it could be town suspicious of the wagons. We'll see how mastin plays today.

VOTE: 4nxi3ty.
4nxi3ty is just as much a scumread (if not more, if that's even possible--like, Damon's a top-tier scumread and yet anxiety is just as strong if not stronger than top-tier), and I'm more interested in (re)wagoning him.

Rach's posting overall feels like town, by the way.

I don't know what to make of matinWKing the lynches.

I actually bothered to think yesterday rather than shutting my brain off?

^Thats town enough that we aren't lynching it Today.

Today? Try ever.

This is weird.

Helpful hint: weird = scum.

Sorta caught up, but skimmed the walls.

[mastin2]

Town: Nero, Peregrine, Anxiety, aptil (pretty town for vig claim)
Probably town, want to talk to them more: Yates, mastin
Town? Possibly stale reads, could be (probably is?) a scum here: Snork, PA, Snowstorm, Damon Gant
Meh: Pmatt, RM
Scummy: TheWayItEnds, Bipolar, ThAdmiral, DV

Switch Anxiety and, well, everyone in the scummy list except TWIE, and you've got a good start. Because the scum list would be empty, bump Damon down for a start. And work from there.

Town: Nero, Peregrine,

Anxiety

, aptil (pretty town for vig claim)
Probably town, want to talk to them more: Yates, mastin
Town? Possibly stale reads, could be (probably is?) a scum here: Snork, PA, Snowstorm, Damon Gant
Meh: Pmatt, RM
Scummy: TheWayItEnds, Bipolar, ThAdmiral,

DV

Ok cool. I disagree most with the bolded.

Snork's probably town, though.

How many players started in the game? I'm thinking I need one more in addition to 4nxi3ty, Damon, and TWIE (who is scumposting, by the way).

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Snowstorm, but not sure 'bout that.

Rach looks super-mega-town, btw.

RAWRs cans I interject this rach detour?
[on snow]

probably

totally bussing. (how do I feign excitement about wagoning a buddy? "Let's Do It")

...

vote: SnowStorm

fairly certain snow is attempting to tie himself to me by presenting an intentional wishywashy read;
also wondering if snowstorm is currently bussing thad.

VOTE: 4nxi3ty.

(Yes, I'm a bit behind.)

[mastin2]

It

was

vanity, as far as I'm concerned the whole charade of staying off the main wagons was vanity for all those involved, and it's the kind of posturing that I am wary of.

Except I was right:
Both wagons were on town.

Thus, attempting to get a wagon

not

on one of them wasn't vanity; it was sanity.

Snowstorm's posting just looks plain scum, now, btw. TWIE also looks like scum.

Oh, heck with it.

VOTE: Snowstorm.

Someone tell me if Penguin, Deas, and 4n make sense as scum. Those names were NOT chosen randomly

4nx, yes. PA, doubtful. DV, possible, but not probable.

/largely skimmed, but caught up.

[mastin2]

You're scum because you're not posting like town and your mindset is basically highly scum-oriented.

[mastin2]

Like hell it is.

I can be plenty town, but that explanation is something that I'd do as either alignment.

[mastin2]

Have a little less than an hour, so probably won't get fully caught up, but I'll get as far as I can.

Anxiety seems pretty town? I dont see what Im missing here.

I don't really see what there is to miss. His play just...isn't town. I'm not seeing a town train of thought. The mindset seems to be scum aiming for a mislynch, in the background, manipulating, rather than town actually scumhunting.

This is exactly what mastin did last time I ran into scum-her, called people scum because they were scum, or scum because they weren't town.

And I insisted back then that it wasn't a scumtell, didn't I? Like I said, it's actually something that I copied from my town meta. Like this game. The NORM is for me-as-scum to have ease explaining the read, and as town to have trouble with it. The EXCEPTION is for me-as-town to have ease explaining the read and as scum have trouble with it.

It

was

vanity, as far as I'm concerned the whole charade of staying off the main wagons was vanity for all those involved, and it's the kind of posturing that I am wary of.

Except I was right: Both wagons were on town. Thus, attempting to get a wagon

not

on one of them wasn't vanity; it was sanity.

Wow, I didn't realise this! Both wagons did turn out to be on town! Well I'll be blown. Of course, you placed your vote on another incorrect wagon so whatever. As I said, I think not being on either of those two wagons on Day 1 does not even begin to give town cred of any sort. The most likely people to be "right" about that sort of thing are scum in my opinion.

Later in that post you did say possibly the first thing I agree with you about though. SnowStorm's recent posting has been very scummy in my eyes. This is a lead I'm going to chase down and try and pinpoint exactly

what

has changed about SnowStorm's posting that has made me feel like this, because I don't find reasonless accusations of scumminess to be very useful.

Still sounds like just as much the cheeky scumbag he was yesterday, by the way.

OK, out of three replacements
Egg for BiPolar
Penguin for MisterRogers
Way It Ends for pisskop

I remember Egg's entrance and find it the most town. It comes in and scumhunts. Expecting more...*hint hint*
and maybe I misread, but don't recall the Penguin or WayItEnds entrance. Probably just misread. Will go find it.
Meanwhile,

vote: 4nxi3ty

:goodposting:

Projectmatt looks scum from just the single post on the last page. Wishy-washy reads even after so many pages of content. Most of the players are in an uncertain pile.

Very well could be, but eh, not sure.

/82.

[mastin2]

How did Wayitends enter the game and not given opinions on anything and also not be held accountable for doing so?

Because people were too absorbed in TownvTown fighting? The whole Rach debate with Nero, AP, ThAd, Snork and such was at about that time; they were too focused on each other to see the actual scum.

Yo Penguin, your entry was a little less bad, but your lack of Yates followup/followthrough bothers me.
Let's see follow-up on 1662.

(PV's town, by the way.)

You've seen my scumgame, so what's up?

A player doesn't need to have seen your scumgame (though I have, actually) to tell you're scum.

penguin_alien - I dislike her posts about mastin. She seems somewhat undecided on mastin and shows no real interest in talking to her to resolve that.

This is a fairly good towntell for her?

Egg - Egg has done fuck-all so far, but replaced BipolarChemist so Scummy.

Like hell he is. This is the same Egg from Hard-Boiled, and BipolarChemist was obvtown.

Damon_Gant - Actually back to leaning town here on an ISO skim. Dont at all get what mastin is seeing here and she should back that up.
4nxi3ty - Suspicion on Snowstorm is town as fuck, since that is something townies tend to be paranoid about. Could be dropping fake tells as scum, but strongly doubt it. Reaction to pressure has felt genuine.

Same deal for both reads. I really, really don't see the town in them. Both are basically tripping all sorts of alarm bells in all their posting. I really wish I could more easily explain that.

ThAdmiral - Meh?

Not meh, town. ThAd's posting is kinda eeeeeeeeeeeehh stance-wise, but it looks really, really legitimate, and while I don't agree with his reads, I understand the reasons for them basically perfectly and can track his mindset.

Vote: SnowStorm

VOTE: 4nxi3ty.
I don't think that a Damonxi3ty scumteam with Snowstorm on it would be bussing them. And I can't really remember the reasoning I had for Snowstorm being scum, but I can still see these two as scum.

I expect some indignant rebuttal whenever she posts again, possibly with a side order of, 'but I don't repeat strategies!' WIFOM.

Well, you'll be sorely disappointed, since that's my scum meta.

As far as her jumping on SnowStorm, if she wants to bus, who am I to interfere?

This is the first thing about PA that has me concerned, since she knows that while I'm not going to never-bus, I have a strong distaste for it; casually hopping onto a scumbuddy isn't exactly my thing.

Snow/TWIE team calling it now. That awkward chainsaw/bus is just too much.

TWIE, sure. Snow, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

I'll get back to you on that.

Snow is town.

I skimmed his posts, but they actually looked fine to me. Not super-mega-town, but definitely on the town side of null. Not getting the suspicion, there.

Rach strikes me like the kind of player who'd be easy for scum to push a lynch on and I think some have said something around the lines of her being an easy target. That goes for both alignments. If she's town, scum could just go from what Snork has brought up to push for her lynch, I think Snork's suspicion of her looks pretty genuine and I actually agree with most of the points he has raised against her, so it wouldn't be hard for scum to fake suspicion on her. I think the only thing that's stopping them from doing it is the ammount of town reads she has gotten from meta or no reasons at all. It's safer for them to just go along and town read her too (at least for now). If she was scum, first, I don't believe she'd have this many town reads, second, even if she had a good number of town reads coming from town, I don't think scum would join in, I'd expect some weak scum reads floating around, after all, she'd still be pretty scummy and it wouldn't be unlikely to think that people could change their minds on her/figure out she was scum and lynch her, that way they'd get some town cred and some fingers to point at post-flip. I mean, it wouldn't matter how many town reads she had on her now, if she kept playing like this she'd be bus material.

And I really liked this, too.

/84.

[mastin2]

I want to exclude the following players from a lynch today:
Penguin
Snork
Egg
Nero Cain
Aptil
Yates
PeregrineV
RachMarie
ThAdmiral

Projectmatt
Mastin2

The last two here are probably a tier below the others, but I actually thought Matt's last post was much more town than scum (contrary to popular opinion) and I think mastin's read of me is quite genuine (I feel he could easily just scumread me if he were scum) and I have no problem with the rest of his posts.

That leaves me:
TheWayItEnds
AngryPidgeon
SnowStorm
Damon_Gant
4nxi3ty

DV's town or just about the most blatant sheeper of my reads ever, since this is basically exactly what my thoughts have been.

Man you're right. I'm totally trying to hide. Thats why I keep posting sarcastic replies to your terrible posts today. I also do have some pretty solid reads to the tune of 3 town and 2 scum that i would like lynched today as well as 2 others that i would be fine with lynching that i've just mentioned in my wall literally 1 page ago.

In other news pisskop stopped posting on page 52 before he was replaced. So you know... 18 pages before you lynched someone. Where 7 people were still not on either of the leading wagons. With his vote that he hasn't moved since page 29. What a calculated way to stay off the leading wagons, by replacing out of 3 games so that he wouldn't have to place a vote on either candidate. Fucking pisskop. So next level.

Its like you've literally put in no effort today and by just saying pisskops name in the thread you can make me scum. Seriously put any effort into this game, or get lynched. I'm really starting to not care which.

And seriously if the case against me is that one of the 2 people off the scum wagon HAS to be scum because fucking RachMarie the paragon of scum hunters said so and pisskop was lurky which is waaaaay worse than mastin being V/LA all of day 1 (because we were the only 2 people not on a wagon, and theres LITERALLY ZERO chance of one of us not being scum), so it has so be him even though he wasnt around during the time period that the lynch was occuring...

Looks like you got me.

VOTE: TheWayItEnds.

SnowStorm [5 votes] (penguin_alien, 4nxi3ty, Angry Pidgeon, mastin2, Damon_Gant)
ThAdmiral [3 votes] (SnowStorm, aptil, Nero Cain)

Why is it that for two days in a row, I've thought both lead wagons sucked?

want to see what's up here, especially with why she voted snowstorm over me.

Dunno, can't remember.

VOTE: 4nxi3ty.

/86.

[mastin2]

btw, so you know, I think your hops on luca, rach, and snowstorm are

interesting

along with mastin's scumread of you.

Define interesting.

Damon might actually be town. I like more of his reads than I don't.

If this is still valid, Nero (tell me if it's not), then I'll give it a more detailed look later. I might be in the mood to just sheep someone and you're a better bet than most.

Rach's analysis strongly looks town, too.

MAstin, are you still in this game?

Technically, yes. The mod didn't send a second prod thanks to V/LA, and I promised posting later tonight.

Truthfully...well. *points to posting*
...I'm feeling a deep disconnect with the game. Not The Fall levels of bad, not even close, but...loosely akin to that? Like...there's the feeling I can do good, but...that I'm not able to do it, if that makes sense.

Want to vote Mastin, but don't like 4nxiety on there.....

Simple solution, vote 4nxi3ty.

...Though I'm considering going back to TWIE.

mastin, damon, snow, thad, matt are all lynchable to me to some degree. I think a mastin lynch is the right play. The getting into 1v1 with talah -> coming back "remembering talah as town" -> voting talah -> then defending moments before lynch doesn't read as natural change of mind. Tone feels manipulative too.

Or not.

Would prefer Mastin, maybe TheWayitEnds(torn on this slot), maybe anxiety but I think Snow is town, and Egg/BiPolar as town (but agree that now-Egg silence is bothersome). Matt would be a less preferable but currently acceptable.

Honestly, I agree with just about everything here. (Yes, including the bit about me being an okay lynch.)

/88.

[mastin2]

I don't think I've ever recalled a Mastin lurker lynch.

The Fall.

Based on your Mastin experience, do you think this would result in a town or scum Mastin?

Not that it really matters coming from *ME*, but it is something that I do as town more than scum. 'Cause as scum, I lead scumteams. Meaning I'm typically at the front activity-wise. As town, not so much, and it's much easier to become detached from reality, to get into my own world and struggle to get back. So in my personal experience, yes, it comes more from a town Mastin.

mastin hasn't site flaked...

No, but honestly, I've come close.

[mastin2]

VOTE: TheWayItEnds.

[mastin2]

Why do you present me as some superscumread but end up voting/wagoning others?

Because you're a scumread but not a superscumread and the strength of my read wavers from post to post?

[mastin2]

...but you were scum.

...So? Doesn't change the statement being true.

This is the first thing about PA that has me concerned, since she knows that while I'm not going to never-bus, I have a strong distaste for it; casually hopping onto a scumbuddy isn't exactly my thing.

Again, appealing to self-aware meta. So not comfortable with this posting.

And concern grows, since my posting clearly wasn't appealing to self-meta; it was explaining perspective. (Short on time atm, but basically, not used as defense, used as offense, with PA's lack of regard for something she knows is a trait of mine being concerning.)

I'd take this more seriously if you weren't on said lead wagon at the time you pulled the quote.

I'm not on it anymore, though.

/also busy.

[mastin2]

Why does it take you so long to end up over here then?

Because I still think 4nxi3ty is scum and still kinda want to wagon him?

Uhhh, what would you expect scum PA to do different.

Her to treat me differently? It's kinda difficult to describe, but, her attitude seems like it was a town one to take about me.

Uhhh, You just posted this about DV. Except their reads aren't THAT in sync.

Doesn't matter? Like...DV's posting looked really good. Damon's posting also looked good, but in a different way, with reads not quite the same but making it even more reason to think him town rather than less.

Im not buying that you 'forgot' why he was scummy.

You scum this game, AP?

You're asking a lot of somewhat-loaded questions here, and even those that aren't are either things you already know or are getting wrong that I really wouldn't expect. I've rambled about my bad memory in a LOT of games, as both alignments, and telling the truth every time. You know this. Like...you can argue that it's convenient for a scum-me to forget. That's an okayish reason. (Not great, though.) But you're not.

Really, you are going to bring that game up?

Well, Xenogears wasn't over at the time, and what I really meant was 'like Xenogears' when Xenogears was 'like The Fall', so...kinda? It's not as bad as Xeno, which wasn't quite as bad as The Fall. But it's the same type of feeling, just a lesser severity, if that makes sense.

You feel like you are coasting here.

I guess I am? I mean, I'm giving content. I'm contributing. I'm posting. But my heart's not into it, and it's a struggle, and I'm not doing a good job at it, so I suppose I am. I'll try to figure something out to fix it.

Talk to me about my reads.

Alright.

Mister Rogers/PA
Snork
AngryPidgeon
BipolarChemist/Egg
Yates
PeregrineV

PA's null to me overall right now.
Snork's posting looks town, but feels like it has to be an alt. It feels like this level of drive and familiarity could only come from an insider. So if Snork really weren't an alt, I'd actually feel like scum if that makes sense.
AP's a concern, since he's not feeling the townvibes.
I liked BipolarChemist's posting and Egg's has continued the trend.
Yates is null, as is PV. Don't really remember anything from either of them.

With a lynch list of {Snork/PA/Yates/AP/PV/Thad}, basically the only one I wouldn't want lynched is ThAd, whose posting does look town to me.

I haven't done anything yet. How can you compare my play here to hard boiled? What are you seeing in my play that is similar to Hard Boiled?

You've done enough for me to get that same vibe from you. Admittedly, your vote on matt seems like a divergence from what I remember about you (and thus, is a concern), but literally everything else I remember about you feels like, "I'm kinda forgetting that this game's not Hard Boiled", if that makes sense.

[mastin2]

This really isn't Egg from Hard boiled...at all.

Don't see how it isn't. Other than one or two pings, really looks like it's the same.

Mastin, if what you are seeing is just my tone or the way I phrase things, that's personality/playstyle. I don't buy that you are using it as a legitimate reason to read me.

Your posting looks the same. I dunno

why

it does, it just does. (You'd probably be town anyway, though, since a scum you has no reason to cast doubt on a townread in this way.)

[quote="In post 2288, Nero Cain"Why is Thad town, Mastin?[/quote] Because while I disagree with both his reads and reasoning, I can see why he has both. Basically, his posting not only is easy to follow, but ridiculously genuine. There's no fakery. No artificialness. Just simple townposting. Wrongtown, yes. Still town, though.

The scummy thing about Matt is he isn't doing anything to make enemies. He has given no scum reads at all but throws a few strong town reads out. That doesn't fit the picture of a lurker who lost interest.

That looks like scum trying really hard to be on everyone s good side with minimal input.

And he out of the blue conjures a singular scum read for zero logical reason up after getting called scummy for not having any. It's looks like active lurking.

Eh, kinda sorta.

[mastin2]

Derp.

Mod: Tag needs fixing.

[mastin2]

the way you talk about me paints a different picture

Not so much my strength of read on you as my strength of read on others, kinda sorta.

If anyone has a problem with this lynch, explain why, because I haven't seen a single good reason to believe that ThAd is town.

Everything about him is ridiculously town, even if not sheeping-town. Look at his posts from his perspective. They're not calculated. They're not artificial. They're not precise. These are all traits of a scum ThAd. They're impulsive. Rash. Emotional. Argumentive rather than manipulative. He's not trying to push an agenda; he's frustrated about the game. His posting looks genuine, like he's trying to figure out the game.

Like, I'm just about as disjointed from the game as can be, yet I can tell all of this basically instantly.

[mastin2]

Do YOU see Thad's latest bout of frustration aimed specifically at Nero being from scum? That emotion is pretty hard to fake and I dont see why scum would do something so likely to draw attention, especially from Nero who is tentatively voting people who arent Thad. Its just town rage. Pretty sure.

AP's town. For stealing my thoughts before I think them. Again.

[mastin2]

Mastin post too many words

Well, considering your request is rather simple, for me to post three simple words, I'd say that this post is more than adequate to fill the definition of your request, meaning I am posting more than I should. Thus, I have posted too many words.

[mastin2]

I also really liked the comment about "the 2 off the wagons because RachMarie said so". When the wagons were almost ENTIRELY split in half the playerlist, AND were both on town, you cannot use that kind of dumb logic to scumhunt... by some kind of arbitrary fucking formula.

I meant it when I said RM is blacklisted. I hope someone fucking shoots her. I want her out of this game regardless of her alignment. She's a fucking liability.

VOTE: Snork.

This is not town ranting.

Wondering about a Snork-PA-TWIE-4nxi3ty scumteam.

[mastin2]

Unvote, Vote Penguin

Can we really make this happen?

Sure. But that would be breaking my mold of saving her for the lylo mislych.
(Serious answer: She's not really that strong of a scumread. I can see her as scum or as town, in about equal likelihood; interactions are the only thing pushing her into scum.)

Why would it be so odd for mastin to read you as town if you are?

It's not. My relationship with AP is...complicated. But what AP was referring to is the lack of paranoia, which is unusual coming from a town me. Generally, town-us are paranoid of one another but still get a correct read ultimately. Which has happened, more or less, 'cause AP's town and I know he's going to call me town.

[mastin2]

Pere, I agree that if anyone has a null red on Mastin they should say why. I can't see the kind of null where they just can't pull any info out of his posts. What I could see is someone wavering in their read.

I agree, as my own read on her is wavering. Her initial posting seemed like scum-Mastin to a T. Only the last few posts have given me any town feelings.

Not this post specifically, but general area around here, PV's very strongly town.

Top Wagons
TheWayItEnds [4 votes] (DeasVail, mastin2, PeregrineV, Damon_Gant)
ThAdmiral [3 votes] (SnowStorm, RachMarie, Nero Cain)
projectmatt [3 votes] (4nxi3ty, penguin_alien, Egg)

Holy shit that matt wagon sucks.

Matt's town. Never lynch him.

ThAd's also town, even though the only possible scum name I see on there is SnowStorm and I don't think he's scum.

But I do really like the TWIE wagon.

So I guess I can go back there.

VOTE: TWIE.

[mastin2]

Snork, AP said projectmatt was lurking, giving town reads, and going back to lurking in response to my noticing projectmatt lacking scum reads. Nero didn't like my trusting that AP was telling the truth about that without researching it on my own. So I asked Nero if AP was lying.

And I'm actually kind of thinking Nero is right about Six, but I'd rather lynch mafia than find out right now.

Preview edit:
Yeah looking for town more than scum is fine. But even if that is what you are doing, you need to call someone scum at some point too. Not doing so just seems like scum wanting to fly under the radar and not step on toes.

And I might actually be changing my mind on Six from when I started this post. I might be ok with lynching him sooner rather than later.

Preview edit again:
Rach, don't worry about it yet. Trust me. Please.

Egg's posting here is looking worse and worse.

I am town JOAT no friggen way would we have TWO town JOATs.

Rach, trust me. He's town. You're town. Let's not get distracted on townVtown and instead focus on lynching scum.

Anyway. I'm going to be late for work if I post anymore, so I'll continue from page 100.
Egg's posting on Six seems opportunistic, though.

[mastin2]

For the record:
I feel like I'm in the minority, as being scum this game who DID think this game was balanced.
In fact, I commented in the spoilered dead QT--I thought this game had better balance than basically most games I've played on MS.net recently. The numbers made sense. They just played out badly for scum. Modkill. AP investigation. (This is particularly true if Snork investigated AP without taking me into account--if AP was going to be Snork's investigation regardless, then AP was going to be screwed over regardless since we certainly weren't going to kill Snork.) The only thing that wasn't bad luck so much as bad circumstances was my play and what I was going through at the time.

(Basically, it was commented on that people thought I siteflaked and voted me when they found out I hadn't. Well...as it turns out, they weren't wrong. I nearly did. I was barely holding on. I won't give the full details, but essentially, I nearly gave up on logging in as mastin2 at all. It was a struggle, and I wasn't in any shape to be playing this game. So there was no lurking going on. There was no alignment advantage in my posting. There was merely a broken person, who should have replaced out but was too stubborn to do so. Which is why it's bad circumstances--not luck, but also not play. Just bad timing for the player in question. A couple weeks earlier or a month later, woulda been fine. At that exact time, not so much.)

[mastin2]

mastin I *knew* that I could get a good read on you based on your entrance. Your town and scum entrances are

vastly

different even though you don't seem aware of the differences.

(For the record, I think this is true of talah, too. Compare talah's entrance this game to other town games.)

A big ping was immediately differing reads. I don't think you put down more than two or three insta-reads which you actually have any meat behind. In the last game we played together where we hydra'd, I understood your reads *immediately*. I expected you to enter the thread with either slight disdain for my aggression or a hearty 'hullo' and you've done neither.

You've not tried to connect with me; not tried to *get* a read on me - you've simply said I'm scum and voted me.

In particular, compare that to this.

So yeah leaning scum until there's a reason not to.

(Which is super interesting considering you've just voted someone else even though you think I'm

definitely

scum).

(Which talah is also guilty of doing.)

So I feel like at least we have an amiable connection to the point where if mastin's town, I'd like to work with her, and I'd think that she'd be far more cautious and wanting to determine my alignment rather than just dropping a vote on me and then telling me I know virtually nothing about her.

Mokay. I'm actually happy to let mastin do her thing for the remainder of the day, and interact as necessary (or as prompted by her).

Probably more relevant ones if I dug deeper (this is a multitasking lazily-done search), but it conveys the idea.

Talah as town I was expecting to be working with me. Not against me.

[mastin2]

Um...please delete that.