NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[AngryPidgeon]

Why am I scum? And why is the vote spread so large?

VOTE: Pisskop
The red letters in your role PM and the words you say.

/confirm

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote: ThaD

You haven't posted in the neighborhood QT yet. What's up with that?

I'd be more concerned if Mr. rogers hadn't posted there

[AngryPidgeon]

I am talah! Are you town?

Yuppers, sure am.

Well this is good news! Perhaps if mastin is town too we shall be an unstoppable scumhunting force.
Or the first three nightkills ><
UNVOTE: mastin
VOTE: Doc

This is probably scum.

Post 17 by Rogers is ringing all the right bells. Promise me you aren't bussing Talah.

This game left RVS at the speed of light, wow.

Mastin where are you.

[AngryPidgeon]

- I'm sheeping Deas to get a more solid read on him, and I think his vote on Doc was legit

So Doc posts a one line, pretty whatever vote on Molla and votes on Doc are legit because? What do you expect from DV to help you read him here?

I'm scum.

Town.

In other news I like being out of rvs within 3 live posts. While its sort of forced (what super early day 1 case stuff isn't) I still like rogers better for it.

No opinion on Talah's half of this?

There is no legitimate purpose to this as Town. bjc is either scum or not worth listening to. Obtuse gambits are anti-Town.

There is no legitimate purpose to it as scum. And still, its PAGE ONE. Joke posts are pretty par for the course. This post reads awfully forced considering you are ignoring that context.

My vote on BB was strictly random. It was, like, the sixth or seventh live post of the game. BB still hasn't said anything, so obviously RVS.

Ok, but it being Page 1 RVS excuses any actions you take.

[AngryPidgeon]

Anxiety is pretty town.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Talah

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm kind of in the boat that Mr. Roger's pressuring was over-done at game start.

VOTE: Mister Rog

This could be scum.

So my question here is why the above fake-claim/joke is okay while mine isn't?

What made you think Admiral disliked your post? His vote on you felt like he was trying to be humorous.

1) What allies did I call for? Was it:

a) Deas and mastin, suggesting if we're all town we might join forces, in the extremely early (as in, I-couldn't-possibly-have-a-read early) response garnering comment I made?
or,
b) The entire roster of people I have previously interacted with in the playerlist?

2) Who were the other allies that I was *also* sheeping?
I'll tell you right now that I've sheeped scumreads before, because I think it's a useful way to find out if there's conviction and validity behind a case, and to see of others join a wagon and why.

3) What case did I react badly to? The case being made about me? Which I know to be bullshit? Do tell me how I was supposed to react in your eyes to a super-early overblown case which was 'ur post ain genuwin son', or if you're referring to something else, please clarify.

You appear to be twisting words to exaggerate the validity of your vote, and I might add that your entrance was pretty much what you appear to be accusing me of, in that you sheep Mister and appear to buddy up to him by implicitly agreeing with everything he's said and adding the 'coalition' statement.

Talah continues to make scummy posts. Seriously look at this post ^. I guarantee you none of that bullshit is going to help Talah scumhunt anybody. All that is is OMGUS with a dash of "You can't PROVE Im scum" and trying to paint Doc as scummy with a pretty bad hypocrisy case. And a ton of smokey questions on top of that to make the post look actually meaningful. Wow. Lynch this.

Vote: talah.
(Rogers is town.)

Please be town this game mastin. You are off to such a good start.

[AngryPidgeon]

People's reaction to my first post has been stupid. Mastin's in particular seems like he just has a problem with just the way that I weighed my words. It's how I post - particularly if I'm making a post with quite a simple and concise point. Indeed, just in general, I don't find Mastin's reads to be very good. The certainty in them is obviously part of his meta, but I do disagree with pretty much all of it. I'm not sure if posting such disagreeable reads is part of his meta! I don't have any particularly strong feelings on his proposal for a limit of posting - but as others do, I guess that's not happening.

I spent quite a while staring at this post cause it felt important. Leaning town I think. Its waffly as fuck, but the train of thought reads genuine. Despite the lack of satisfying conclusion, its still making his opinion plain and its fairly followable.

That said, while talah's scum...
VOTE: Damon Gant.
...My scumread here is much, much stronger.

Mastin, get back on Talah TIA. I'm willing to discuss Gant with you but I reaaally dont think hes scum?

Talah continues to OMGUS literally everything in 108.

Let me address this first: "Hollow, shallow, easily faked and overall just feeling plain empty."

Your words. Can you point out instances of this, or are you happy to simply to cast a huge aspersion on my character without explaining your own thinking?

Lets see, your post to Doc was TERRIBLE. Pointless questions, flinging a case at him offhandedly, and, essentially, OMGUS. You did the same thing with Rogers to a lesser extent and now with mastin. Its scummy and for the love of all that is holy Im not gonna let you push mastin off this one by being ham about it.

[AngryPidgeon]

how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?

Prolly cuz posts like this. I'm townreading you pretty hard right now, Rachy.

Coupled with a mastin policy vote. Wow. This needs to be lynched independent of a Talah flip.

Mastin's play continues to be very bleh. Giving garbage reads, and now trying to spoonfeed us what his meta is. That's not going to work - when I have time tonight I'll be looking at Mastin's meta for myself. It does need doing, because of the unorthodox playstyle - but I'm not going to be told by the player himself what his meta is, and essentially that his meta this game corresponds with his meta for town.

Nobody is allowed to read mastin except me. Not after anything goes. If matin is scum, I'll know by D2 at the latest. If I die tonight, consider that a mastin scum claim as well.

If you are not voting anybody , that makes you scum ?

This is a little defensive. Rogers was saying no one should TOWNREAD you for simply not voting. AFAICT he thinks your a pretty null presence in the thread, which is a good opinion to have. You town?

This is scum logic. Damon is ignoring everything that's happened in the game so far to focus on something alignment irrelevant

Ya, but townies focus on nulltells all the time. Its not scummy, just bad.

That's not scum logic - that's bad logic

Woah, +1

We could lynch this [Chemist], for instance.

Im in for this wagon if it becomes a thing. BPC is pretty along for the ride this game.

[AngryPidgeon]

So mastin's happy to townread, say, aptil on the basis of one very shonky post, but needs to reaction-test me when I'm the player who already has the most in-thread content to read from?

This is scum upset at being caught for the wrong reasons.

Anyway, I don't think there's any reason for the Doc wagon to die, and regardless it's probably a bad idea to lynch mastin Day 1 on the off chance that she's town. So will be keeping an eye on.

UNVOTE: mastin
VOTE: Doc

Loooool. Play with the fire and get burned. No backing down from this crapvote on mastin now, scumbutt.

C'mon man, you're better than that.

I actually read Talah's opening posts as pretty townie, and I'm not exactly prepared to give out a read on Mastin yet. I think future interactions in regards to those two will be very telling but I'm waiting. Right now, I don't have a lot that's concrete - my reads need time to develop. But we'll see.

Vote: BipolarChemist

due to the fact that his read on RachMarie looks forced.

Nah man, ain't forced. I've read through a few games and played with her. I'm finding her fairly town, yo. Why do you think she's town right now?

Ok, so why is RachMarie probably town then? (FWIW, RM IS probtown after Chemist flips maf)

I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.

Do you plan on doing anything useful this game or are you just gonna keep making excuses for posts?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh and ThAd is literally voting me for scum-hunting.

Ya that last ThAd post was "huh?" leaning towards eyebrow-raising.

[AngryPidgeon]

lol nah man. Considering I was the first to post after Rach, I think you're mistaking me saying Rach's post seemed uber town with me defending Talah.

You also managed to vote mastin for lolpolicy or something otherwise completely forgettable. Still, Id lynch you independent of Talah flipping scum.

Uhhh, Zd lets not pull bullshit gambits on people. There was nothing town about that reaction, ESPECIALLY the certainty that came with it. No one is that certain about bullshit gambits. Every fucking fake hammer in the game ends up being on scum and they go "LOL IM VT WHATEVER" and then everyone calls them probtown. Fucks sake.

Ok I take back everything I said about zdenek. The fake-vig was golden. bipolar is now basically conf-town, that reaction doesn't look fake at all.

Wow. I expected something more pragmatic from you at least. Thank fuck Yates has the common sense to recognize a nulltell when he sees one.

Rogers v Anxiety is dumb and distracting from people who are actually scum.
PV feels town although his town reads on Talah and admiral need reevaluating.

Your thought progression here makes no sense to me at all.

Actually it makes perfect sense. You are trying to assign scum motivation to people's reaction to the bjc post whilst leaving the -exact- motivation up for interpretation. Is there a distinct -lack- of town motivation in the responses? I don't see any. Its realllly not going to fly to say "Ya these reactions are scum-motivated for whatever reason you want them to be". Justify yourself or get dunked. That vig gambit was pretty damn uninspired as well.

Yup. Not seeing the content I wanted from Pere.

This is town Pere. Im 80% sure. Pere isn't a flash-bang player, give him time. Still probs town though. I wanna say this looks like GoW mafia Peregrine.

I'm not buying the "fake vig". Nor the "town reaction". But I'll have to take a look back to see what exactly irked me about it.

Unf. Talk to me about this. I agree and Im concerned that Yates is the only other person to step up to the plate on this one.

[AngryPidgeon]

umm Mastin is a he

Incorrect, check the pronoun.

and the asking to see if he could post before the mod confirmed his "death" just feels genuine.

No? That trust in Zdenek being honest feels entirely misplaced and over-the-top nonchalant.

It seems everyone is giving Mastin a pass due to self-meta

A pass? What has mastin does that is explicitly scummy?

Using meta to read mastin is generally a very weak way to read her since shes pretty self aware of her meta.

Yates is so town. <3

Convince me? I've got him down as a big fat null after that one post.

I'm not going to argue with you over your great desire to create naked town reads. Its scumtastic

Its really not.

[AngryPidgeon]

ESPECIALLY the certainty that came with it.

What certainty?

The part where he auto-claims without bothering to figure out at all if you are full of shit. Townies are generally paranoid about that.

Actually it makes perfect sense. You are trying to assign scum motivation to people's reaction to the bjc post whilst leaving the -exact- motivation up for interpretation. Is there a distinct -lack- of town motivation in the responses? I don't see any. Its realllly not going to fly to say "Ya these reactions are scum-motivated for whatever reason you want them to be". Justify yourself or get dunked.

It was page two and I was trying to provoke reactions. I find it hard to imagine that you could think I was doing anything differently.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5750757
^ Ok, well this is page 10 and you apparently still believe those reads are good because you are arguing them with PV so cut this crap about it being page 2. I think PV's points make sense.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im caught up.

I have moderate town reads on: Gant, Anxiety, Rogers, peregrine, DV and bjc.
I like mastin's presence in the game so far but need to talk to her more (tentative townread).

Talah, Chemist, and more recently Zdenek, look bad. Zdenek keeps toying with the Talah vote but hopped onto me for agreeing with PV about him which is pretty sketch. Voting me and simultaneously backpedaling on the inherent seriousness of his reads that I brought up makes me pretty willing to lynch that Today

Admiral is a weaker read, for no real reason other than he feels lackluster.

P-edit: I thought you called him obvtown? I need to read that sequence again, there was way to much towncred being thrown at him from too many people.
Do you believe them or not? You clearly at least partially believe those points since you are bothering to argue them with PV.
P-p-edit: Ok. Like The Doc holiday suspicion in particular bugged me. Saying he needs to vote someone later is scum motivated because? Hes panic-bussing bjc? He wants to see who is willing to ML bjc before hopping on? I mean, it -could- be from scum, but I dont see why town couldnt make that post.

[AngryPidgeon]

I was asked, presumably mastin recommended me. And no.

Funny enough I was going to replace into this and had sent a pm to the mod about it before but deleted it cause I got asked to join another immediately after. But now I'm here anyways

[AngryPidgeon]

Why do we always disagree about everything?

Is it because you received a mafia role PM this game? I dont think we've been the same alignment ever. (Usually Im scum not you though )

[AngryPidgeon]

Talah, why do you care why Im in the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Quote me the post where ANYONE says they think scum have daytalk. The fact you bring this up NOW is 1) Tinfoil Hat, 2) +scum

Daytalk really isnt as uncommon as you seem to think it is.

presumably mastin recommended me.

Can you please explain?

The mod told me that someone recommended me as a replacement and the mod sent me a PM asking me to play.
The (by far) most likely person to do that in this game is mastin.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'll have posted more than you by the end of the game even if Im lynched Today

[AngryPidgeon]

Where does credit for a lynch factor in here?

I think Anxiety is saying that Luca could be defending a scum buddy but trying to leave wiggle room should he flip? I just reread that like 5 times and Im still scratching my head.

[AngryPidgeon]

The BB issue is a non-issue and low hanging fruit. Its a great thing for scum to make noise about just as you seem to be doing. I would expect better from you.

Yates sort of actively discouraged people from badwagoning on PV

How about I join Yates and adovcate your lynch

Uh. How am I "advocating" a Pere lynch? My vote? You realize votes are scum hunting tools, right? My vote is on Pere specifically because I'm

in the process

of determining his alignment.

You really think Yates is going for a low hanging mislynch whilst going out of his way to discourage voters on the wagon?

There is a difference between accepting the possibility of daytalk and presumptively declaring that it exists in an argument.

Are you guys high? If you think scum have day talk, isn't that exactly something someone would do? Also, even if you think Bipolar is Town how does that in any way reflect on Zdenek's alignment?

Hes not though? Hes arguing that town reads on the situation are naive, not saying that day chat exists and therefore the situation was 100% fake.

[AngryPidgeon]

Pardon me but are you guys a hydra? Or is it scum buddies? I mean, why are you answering for Yates here?

Wow, what a terrible post. No, I happened to agree with Yates about the Vig interaction. People townreading the situation ARE being naive and your stated reasons for voting Yates don't make any sense. I'll call bullshit out when I see it, thanks.

The only thing that bothered me about Pisskop was his stance on Talah:

At this point, I want to say that Talah's style of posting seems to have a natural town feel.

Not too sure on him, but still leaning scum.

And the quoted posts seem mostly arbitrary on top of this. Then suddenly he affirms Talah is town after this post:

Pidgeon - quick one from work - were you asked to join this game, or did you replace in of your own accord?

And did you skim / read any of the thread prior to replacing in?

talah can be towny for now

Which wasn't a townie post? I mean it was a pretty whatever post, dunno why pisskop cared about it unless he just wanted to rectify his previous waffle on Talah.

[AngryPidgeon]

Talah, convince me that there was any point to posting this other than to make yourself look more town.

That tidbit also pinged me. Not specifically for this reason (although it makes sense) but hes arguing about Gant's townread on him by throwing up meta for no real reason? Like why? It looks like smoke.

Anyway I'm not interested in a Day 1 mastin lynch if I haven't mentioned that enough times already.

Which I've taken issue with in case you haven't noticed : ). Prodding someone like mastin and then backing down for pointless reasons just looks like someone trying to ruffle feathers and then settle on softer targets. People have already been eyeing mastin suspiciously for no real reason but it looks like mostly piggy backed off your early pressure there which you are now actively declining to give an opinion on.

And since you said you are town hunting - who is town?

I'm giving it the nullest of townreads on both, and a bit less on Chemist, if that's possible. Zdenek's leaning town for questioning and pushing anyway.

Mm, ok. I still want to lynch Chemist the most right now I think, but people are acting (or actually believe, wow) that scum isn't capable of faking that. I mean maybe Im just paranoid because I've done far more elaborate shit than that as scum: (pretended I was hammered when I knew I wasnt and fake raged all over the thread) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5107138

[AngryPidgeon]

Going against what seems to be an already established opinion, while making a point that I actually agree with? If he was a girl and I was a girl, I'd probably say something like 'You go gurl!' Hey, I'll say it anyway. YOU GO GURL!

This is both hilarious and in line with what I was thinking re Yates on the Dayvig matter. Can you explain what felt different about Talah before and why you think he could fool you as scum? Also your DG read is A+.

I find his scumhunting lacklustre

Are you my alt? I used the exact same word to describe him, >.>

Oops talah did give an extensive town list. Why is admiral towny, Talah? Also dear god Rogers v Talah quote walls are getting pedantic and long.

Anyone else think "scum dayvig" here?

No, the only correct reaction to a dayvig in a NORMAL GAME is to not give a shit about it because its fake 99 times out of 100.

I'm hedging hard on mastin because of the way she dropped off scumreading me.

When did mastin stop scumreading you? Admittedly she hasn't been as active in this thread (or on site) as I'd like but I understand that is for personal reasons. And ironically, you are the one who is claiming to have dropped your mastin scumread or otherwise put it on the backburner.

And you're irritating the shit out of me just coming back to me, again and again, and you're confused as to whether lurkers could be scum?

Of course they can, thats the issue with lurkers. They're like a box of chocolates, you never know what ther're gonna flip. So wagoning random lurkers usually ends up hitting town since most of the game is town and scum will just convince people to not vote their buddy lurker. You declared intent to lurker hunt which is a great thing for scum to do (hits town a lot, no resistance from the people you pressure, low hanging targets). I mean townies do it to, so its no explicitly a scumtell but its never a great policy.

Nopers. Based on his play in another large game I don't like him here.

If this is referring to an ongoing game then stop right here. You shouldnt even have posted this. Also this shit wont fly for an argument since no one can actually verify it or read you off of it.

[AngryPidgeon]

I can't figure out which is worse Yates pushing daytalk or...

Quote me the post where ANYONE says they think scum have daytalk.

Are you trolling me right now?

You know

I was thinking similar veins about scum daytalk

.

I can't figure out which is worse Rogers pushing daytalk or pretending he didn't.

Wow this is legitimately terrible from Rogers.

[AngryPidgeon]

(I dunno why you are encouraging this line of topic, AP, considering you recently called me town and that the mister rogers v. anxiety was a distraction.)

I was trying to resolve it by explaining what I thought you said? Thought that was fairly obvious.

Not sure how I feel about DV floating me into his scum section

Meh, his reads are mostly alright. Gimme some time to sell him on this one.

A VT claim DOESN'T mean that the person is auto magically vanilla OR town.

Lol. This loosely reminds me of HPATPL where I got wagoned to like L - 4 and just flash-claimed VT and somehow it worked, my wagon kinda dismantled. (I was scum, but you know that )

@AP: So you disagree that Yates has been tunneling?

I think hes been lurking. PV is town so his vote there is useless, but its not scummy? I get a general town feel from his posts but its Yates and I respect his scum game so he never gets an early pass from me.

--

What I find equally interesting is the number of people that all of a sudden were like "welp - I guess Zdenek and Chemist are Town now" when there is ZERO precident/reason for that change of heart ["game changer"]. In case you didn't notice, I've been asking for reasons why and have yet to see anything remotely persuasive.

^ @Rogers: This makes perfect sense to me. Yates isn't actually shoving Chemist/Zd as scumscumscum? I know I was disappointed at the people tripping over themselves to shower towncred on the situation which seems to be Yates's exact thoughts on the matter. And I dont get your point about overall vs specifically here vig interactions. This dayvig interaction specifically is no reason to townread anyone. Who cares about dayvig's in general?

Yes Mollie was my buddy that game lol. We all coasted to endgame after they lynched NS.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok, so the issue with bjc claiming scum is that all the conversation about it has been pretty fucking pointless.

[AngryPidgeon]

No the issue is he's bjc and we cant judge him on that alone.

So you agree with my assessment of the conversation about that post being pointless.

[AngryPidgeon]

So I should probably give Aptil and Luca an ISO since they are becoming popular scumreads.

[AngryPidgeon]

If you are not voting anybody , that makes you scum ?

Meh. Nothing about aptil is super interesting. His limited content feels lightly townish, but I disliked the above^. Rogers said that townreads on aptil for not voting were silly and aptil feels a little guilty here cause he is responding as if Rogers called him scum there.

Luca hasn't posted even a singular interesting tidbit.

Unless people think voting these players is going to make them magically appear in thread and start vomiting rainbows everywhere, I dont know why they are. Both players are dead null.

[AngryPidgeon]

The Rest:
mastin
Luca
aptil
Snow
Nero

So everyone in the game is a townread except...

Luca (zero content)
aptil (basically zero content)
Nero (zero content)
Snow (mmm, ok)
mastin

Ok?

[AngryPidgeon]

It also occurred to me that daytalk would be the only way in which ZD-Chem interactions could actually be discredited

Its not. It could have been a gambit they talked about pregame. It could be that only one is scum. <-- You seem to think either/both of us are shoving a connection case on the two of them which Im not. Using shortcuts like this for townreads will come back to bite you. Yes its plausible they ARE town, but the dayvig is null as hell. Im reminded of Posh Mafia (ny 161) where Mattp fakes a gunsmith guilty on IaI and IaI immediately claimed cop in response. Matt retracted his claim, but IaI's reaction to the gambit was largely considered probtown. Enough so that he went on to basically carry the game for his team. I think its pretty protown to actually encourage people to check their reads to make sure they aren't based on feelgood quickandeasy heuristics/gambits.

Consequently, do you think Admiral's reaction to this is town? Somebody (Yates?) mentioned his initial response looked sarcastic but apparently it was serious. Either way, it felt fake to me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Checked Luca's meta - Luca pretty much doesn't have a meta, with as far as I could see, only 1 finished game to speak of. None of Luca's posts from that one game read as scummy as the one post Luca has here. I reiterate - I'm happy with my vote.

What on earth. How are you going to apply a metaread to somebody who has posted a grand total of 3 sentences, one of which was a proddodge?

[AngryPidgeon]

Unless you actually expect zero content to be an actual tell for him one way or another which would be blacklist worthy behavior if actually the case.

[AngryPidgeon]

FWIW, I think Rogers reads feel town-motivated even if I disagree with some.
The Rach scumread is kind of against the grain and frankly the townreads on her from all over the thread are pretty

[AngryPidgeon]

Damon is coasting with his vote. Do not like.

What? He was voting for BJC and now hes on Luca. Id hear arguments that his votes are easy to make, but I dont see how hes 'coasting' with it.
I think Gant's posts fell generally town.

[AngryPidgeon]

fell

feel**

[AngryPidgeon]

So 'fore I spend my time catching up later tonight has anything significant happened yet?

Well lets see. Yates claimed Professor Moody with a "Dabbles in the dark arts" guilty on you

Balls in your court, scumbag.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think the PK issue needs addressing though.

Pisskop? Did I miss something specific?
Do you think aptil votes are just as useless/bad as luca votes? I mean I guess aptil has slightly more content, but I see a slew of people voting both of these players who, imo, are lurking and nullville.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because only one remotely interesting thing happened and I'd rather get your unbiased opinion of that anyways than spoil it for you

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean. PV could be scum, but Id rather leave him alone for today? This is pretty par for the course PV. Hes engaging in things that are interesting to him (imo). His scumread on bjc isn't scummy, just probably wrong?

I did headdesk a little at his post where he sorted everyone in the game by post count though >.>

[AngryPidgeon]

Well, I did claim my role before getting voted on so there's that.

And lol at that fucking question. I claimed scum and drew like three votes pretty quickly. So of course the content generated after that was in response to being voted on. Le'sigh.

So cheeky, very wow.

How about you take the hint instead. And ... provide content.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, and I definitely agree with this post by talah.

-Shrug-, I prefer to vote actually scummy people and either investigate lurkers or have them replaced by someone who WILL contribute.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also there's one of my favourite things, he asks me to get a case on him. That's just him telling us that he's scum.

Ya, this sounded an awful lot like scumlogic. Hes sort of acknowledging that there IS a case on him by complaining about how hes being voted for one thing and not others and then says there actually is no case and your suspicious for sheeping me. It looks like scum caught for the wrong reasons and upset about it. And his point about you being "Silly" for scumreading Talah but voting him for waffling on Talah is

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok:

Im unsure whats sillier -

-that you have a solid enough scumread on talah to vote me for (quite) publicly waffling on him and yet still vote me

This doesn't actually make any sense. It just looks like an attempt to discredit the vote on you

-that of all the content Ive put forth my read on Talah is your focus. nevermind my 'flip' on thad or my interactions with yates or my refusal to judge the absence of content.

This is what I meant specifically. You having done other things that you consider scummy is irrelevant? Your opinion on Talah made no sense and could certainly be from scum. That you've done other scummy things (in your opinion) doesn't make Zdenek scummy or his vote less valid?

-that you responded to a quote of APs to vote me

So? Your Talah read was a contradiction followed by a hard townread on him over a mostly throwaway post with a couple question in it that he never followed up on or drew any conclusions from. You buddying up to that post is pretty bizarre. Just because I pointed it out, doesn't make it a less valid point.

in short, get bent or get a case.

This is just scummy defensive. Scum like to have cases to refute. Sure this is a point thats harder for me to expliain, but this attitude comes from scum a LOT.

[AngryPidgeon]

C'mon, this guy? He just needs votes like nao?

Why am I covered in ketchup ><

I might entertain a bjc policy wagon.

And if I'm content with lurking?

Then...we vote you until you generate content. I dont get whts so hard to understand about this.

[AngryPidgeon]

Talah actually trying to make a case on Luca over his "Im going to be busy IRL" post makes me queasy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hes engaging in things that are interesting to him (imo)

I do sort of do that, but if I engage in things that don't interest me, then it's probably fake. Maybe a judgment thing that comes with experience.

Someone in this game used the word "vapid" to describe your scumgame. I sort of agree, no offense to your scum game . I think you just wear your town-cards on your sleeve if that makes sense. Its hard to fake genuine interest. Mastin is kind of similar, but mastin spins things actively and mimics meta well as scum so you have to peel the onion to get to the stinky center first.

Talah,
Can't help but notice your distinct lack of mentioning bjc at all in a post about lurkers. Nor about his attitude about the pressure being applied to him. Nor about the fact he finally posted.
Please help me to understand.

That Talah is actually scumreading Luca over non-posting is worrisome. The distinction with which he assigns reads to lurkers is inscrutable and scummy.

Tell me some of the good info we'll get from his lynch.

No one ever said anything about info? BJC is actively refusing to post anything readable which is anti-town at best, scummy at worst.

I would vote Matt before most other lurkers. I skimmed his ISO at one point and it felt a little uninspired?

Anyway, I don't like the wagon on BJC at all. No, claiming mafia is not objectively a towntell or anything but the way I see it, it looks like he got put as an easy target pretty early in the game and the amount of people jumping on something that is absolutely not a tell at all makes me worried.

Awesome, and the Luca and aptil wagons are better alternatives or are you just defending people randomly?

[AngryPidgeon]

Uh yeah actually, Mr. Rodgers literally said "we gain good info from their wagon". Did you just intentionally misinterpret what I said?

Oh apparently I missed that Rogers post. I assumed Rogers was voting him for being willfully obtuse.

What? I just said that I think that the Aptil wagon is a much better alternative and I am currently looking to get an opinion on Luca. Clearly, my defense on BJC isn't founded on nothing.

Ok, what is it founded on then

[AngryPidgeon]

Pidgeon - Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where Luca said he had some intense real life issues happening and arranged V/LA with a view to replacing out if he was unable to play the game. What's that? He actually apologised for not providing content and promised content and then fucked off to 'scum iz intense'-land? Oh my. Well I suppose we should wait for LUCA TO RESPOND THEN, don't you think?

Yes that sure is what happened. And then you made an obscure-ass case on him for it:

There's that scum-cerity where he's expressing that he's sorry he can't post (because making a scum post he's happy with is so draining and unsatisfying). I've known the feeling.

[AngryPidgeon]

I am a closet lynch all lurkers fanatic but I have repressed that impulse due to site meta

LOL. IDK why site meta is holding you back, usually people end up waffling all day and compromise lyncinhing random lurkers.

Just going to put this out there

vote: Mister Rogers

I would rather lynch bjc, but would consider Luca, maybe Aptil, maybe Snow. Probably not 4nxiety or DV or BiPolar out of the low posters.

Out of the high posters, cases require more validity. Only ones I'd really consider at this point are talah and pisskop.

Why snow? I cant actually recall anything hes posted which is probably a bad sign for him. If we're lynching lurkers I would support bjc (mostly policy) and aptil (latest post read a little forced, meh).
Talah is just blatantly scummy this game and I have mixed emotions about pisskop but have him a little on the scummy side of the fence and he seems like a lynch people would actually compromise on.

Aptil talking only about people with less post counts then him is pretty lazy and the "Nero has 4 posts but it may as well be 3 because ones a double" in particular made me .

so I'll be back around my prod timer because you fucks obviously need time to work things out between yourselves anyway. Did I mention that I'm an excellent wagon for those of you that want to

push a policy/information

scum lynch? Probably.

ftfy. Stop trying to paint yourself like a bad policy lynch.

I still don't get the anxiety pressure, can we not lynch probable townies today?

[AngryPidgeon]

projectmatt is being pretty pro-town so lets not lynch him today either.

[AngryPidgeon]

Pidgeon - Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where Luca said he had some intense real life issues happening and arranged V/LA with a view to replacing out if he was unable to play the game. What's that? He actually apologised for not providing content and promised content and then fucked off to 'scum iz intense'-land? Oh my. Well I suppose we should wait for LUCA TO RESPOND THEN, don't you think?

Yes that sure is what happened. And then you made an obscure-ass case on him for it:

There's that scum-cerity where he's expressing that he's sorry he can't post (because making a scum post he's happy with is so draining and unsatisfying). I've known the feeling.

And what, to you, indicates that this "obscure-ass case" isn't 100% accurate? Do you have information that Luca really *is* having RL issues which are affecting his ability to post - anything at all?
Here's the post:

Apologies for my lack of activity thus far, I will commit a bit of time later to going through this thread and will post my reads then.

And anyway like I say I saw him logged in about a day ago, and he posted nothing. Not another prod dodge, not general comments or an indication about how he was going to go about catching up - nothing.

If he was *really* apologetic and had RL issues, perhaps he'd flag a V/LA or replace out or something.
But the fact is, I'm seeing this as more likely a case of newb-scum who has no idea what initial angle to take to further his wincon. And without further information to dispute that likelihood, why would anyone give him a free pass to not be voted for not playing the game?

Why are you defending him?

(anyway back later, so I waive my right of reply for a couple of days)

Wow. How are people townreading this.

He logged in and didn't post. Congratulations! You've identified a lurker. Confetti EVERYWHERE.

I have no idea who Luca is or what is schedule looks like. All I know is that he hasn't posted jack shit that is readable which makes him approximately 75% likely to be town because that is about par for most games.

Yes, it SURE WOULD BE NICE if he'd

post in the thread

to tell us about a possible VLA or actually just get a replacement if he cant play. This is more evidence to support the case that Luca is in fact a lurker.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yates : 7 posts : Has only 7 posts but all of them have content . Reads town to me .

The irony.

[AngryPidgeon]

Its not much, but I have nero as a townlean for his reaction to my post.

[AngryPidgeon]

Can it be thad? If I ask nicely?

[AngryPidgeon]

Interesting you would pop up there with that statement.

Was I right?

[AngryPidgeon]

@nero: Excellent Luca read btw. Could you please comment on Mastin's Luca read? Thanks.

die you scum fuck.

Hey, referencing Nacho is my new schtick. I reserve the right to post his avatar in the thread at least.

Roger's reaction to Nero's entry is weird, not necessarily scummy? Wanna think about it. It felt very controlled/deadpan, which could just be his playstyle or having fun with Nero. Meh.

I also see an amazingly unbelievable ott defense of BJC -- I mean it might just be a noise issue to harp on and maybe its just coincidental regarding the Yates vote but -- he has become the biggest BJC defender in this thread.

Ya, I don't quite like the BJC defense specifically. He is talking about how lurker lynches are subpar in general (which I agree) but his previous vote on aptil is a little off considering that and he sort of transitions into a BJC specific defense and votes Yates at the same time. Buuuttt, I don't see this as particularly egregious unless BJC is actually scum and Matt is useful enough that I'd rather lynch BJC first of the two if Im going down that path. So still rather not lynch matt today.

1) Didn't his read look bizarre to you? And his opening reads in general (the 3 I mentioned)?
2) What do I need to know about Mastin as to why he's town i.e. why you are reading him as town?

1) Quick gut reads and updating them constantly is sort of a mastin thing in general. Im annoyed that shes V/LA but shes not posting anywhere on site so -shrug-. Shes not one to flake though, so she'll be back.
2) Im not really willing to call mastin town yet. Reading mastin is more of an art than a science . Weve discussed it multiple times and I think the best way I can describe it is her heart just isn't in the posts she makes when shes scum. Shes capable of faking it thought which is the scary part, gotta look for the cracks. She gets misread a TON for meta and shes actually pretty good at mimicking townmeta as scum.

/meta.

[AngryPidgeon]

The other thing - err I don't even know what you're getting at. I knew AP didn't have info on Luca (or at least, strongly suspected he didn't), and if he actually did I would have dropped it immediately on a say-so. Turns out he didn't, so I am still Not seeing the issue with wagonning the crap out of lurkers while we have a week on the clock. Apparently that's scummy, to want content from lurkers.

BULLSHIT. You have been actively wagoning Luca because you think hes scum, not because you "want more info from him" and your previous post is you talking about all the scummy things hes GOING to do when he gets back. This is switching up your reason for voteparking Luca and that ain't gonna fly.

And also, voting Lurkers rarely makes them post more and certainly hasn't made Luca post more.

We have a week left. Now is the time to start settling on compromises and leaving some time open to deal with claims so we dont have to get stuck wagoning someone frantically at deadline like what happens in literally every large game recently.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hopefully the situation will be sorted by tomorrow .

Please hurry it along as quickly as possible. I would really like to see you come in here and Town up the joint so absolutely that Matt chokes on it. Thanks in advance.

lol.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, thats pretty bad. People voting on a lone wagon should consider changing that.

[AngryPidgeon]

Th only thing going for the pisskop wagon is Zdenek.
the only thing going for the Luca wagon is Gant (I read the sig)

Someone help me understand the Yates or Gant wagon.

Day 1 Mason QT

I think Talah's posting the last few pages has improved, but only because I didn't look to closely at it. Why am I not getting the town feeling I want from her stuff?

Pisskop is sketchy but the wagon on him is pretty meh. I'd rather not vote there today, but could as a compromise. I don't get why people think Luca is scummy (except Talah is just pushing a mislynch on him in all likelihood, so there is that). I don't really get the Yates wagon either, pretty uninterested in voting that. Gant seems townish enough and the votes on him are super stale. Not sure what to make of that. Would you compromise lynch ThAdmiral?

[AngryPidgeon]

Well, aptil isn't really contributing yet due to "internet problems" and my read on pisskop isn't on the right side of null. Also, I don't really care too much about his meta since he isn't posting enough that anyone should be able to meta read him. Also also, as I've said before, screw meta.

Pretty much this.

If Mastin said his grandmother was dying and couldn't post but you saw him at a craps table in Vegas drunk posting in another thread? That's one thing.

What if mastin is playing at the blackjack table?

Also, re Talah on Luca. Talah actually argued to me that I can't PROVE Luca isn't faking out of game issues. Like. That is such a contrived case to push on someone at all. And the double-justification Talah is giving for his reason to be voting Luca (keeps seriously scumreading him, but ALSO is just voting him for pressure admittedly at one point) is really bad.

Spoiler:

Day 1 Mason QT

I think Talah's posting the last few pages has improved, but only because I didn't look to closely at it. Why am I not getting the town feeling I want from her stuff?

Pisskop is sketchy but the wagon on him is pretty meh. I'd rather not vote there today, but could as a compromise. I don't get why people think Luca is scummy (except Talah is just pushing a mislynch on him in all likelihood, so there is that). I don't really get the Yates wagon either, pretty uninterested in voting that. Gant seems townish enough and the votes on him are super stale. Not sure what to make of that. Would you compromise lynch ThAdmiral?

Check Luca's ISO. Apologizing prod-dodging and a defense of bjc. And talah could be bussing for towncred. Yates wagon is non-starter. My ThAd townread is hard-gut (see 588), so, barring an unusual turn of events, probably not.

I've seen the ISO, I think its just null? I don't see apologizing for inactivity as scummy (DGB mislynches people for that frequently). Post 48

does

read a little weird, but I don't see why everyone thinks Luca is scumscumscum for posting a waffle on P2. If I were to vote Luca, it would be purely policy/compromise at this point. Would rather Bipolar, Thad (these probably aren't happening today) or Talah (also probably not happening). Pisskop lynch is better than most, I might prefer aptil to Luca?

[AngryPidgeon]

LOOK HOW MUCH FUN WE'RE HAVING!!!

Legit lold. Still anxiety not taking a hard stance on mastin isn't scummy and the frustration over being scum read for this reads genuine? Could be genuine and scum, but less likely and anxiety not trying to appease anyone by faking confidence seems promising for his townieness

[AngryPidgeon]

Re 802: but both alignments buddy? I don't see why him stating what he agrees with is scum buddying. Lucas recent posts feel like TAM from anything goes. Who was town and lurker lynched d1.

Yes and nice discredit rather than engaging me Talah. Very town motivated.

[AngryPidgeon]

4nxi3ty [4 votes] (ThAdmiral, Damon_Gant, talah, Luca Blight)

[AngryPidgeon]

Hello yet unidentified alt of aomeone who clearly knows what they are doing.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also Snork's entry post looks ridiculously town.

[AngryPidgeon]

The only not-town part of Snork's post is the lack of Roger's in it. Frankly, rogers should be in every townblock at this point.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh MR is Rogers Im dumb.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP hasn't had a convo with me.

1) Didn't his read look bizarre to you? And his opening reads in general (the 3 I mentioned)?
2) What do I need to know about Mastin as to why he's town i.e. why you are reading him as town?

1) Quick gut reads and updating them constantly is sort of a mastin thing in general. Im annoyed that shes V/LA but shes not posting anywhere on site so -shrug-. Shes not one to flake though, so she'll be back.
2) Im not really willing to call mastin town yet. Reading mastin is more of an art than a science . Weve discussed it multiple times and I think the best way I can describe it is her heart just isn't in the posts she makes when shes scum. Shes capable of faking it thought which is the scary part, gotta look for the cracks. She gets misread a TON for meta and shes actually pretty good at mimicking townmeta as scum.

/meta.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm mobile and phone low power. I'll catch up here in a few hours.

[AngryPidgeon]

I sure hope pages 37 to 46 are less pedantic bullshit than p 36 was.

[AngryPidgeon]

i am getting a T v T feel from the froofroo tween Nero and MR

dudes maybe should look at other players...

Yes.

[AngryPidgeon]

Will lynch:
Luca
aptil
Snow
Rogers

Might lynch:
Snork
pisskop
Pidgeon
Chemist

Edit: 4 pedit posts.. Getting to it *sigh*

all of these are either low hanging lurkers or blatant omgus.

[AngryPidgeon]

Will lynch:
Luca
aptil
Snow
Rogers

Might lynch:
Snork
pisskop
Pidgeon
Chemist

Edit: 4 pedit posts.. Getting to it *sigh*

all of these are either low hanging lurkers or blatant omgus.

Riii-iiight.

So you're suggesting I expand this to include folks I'm either townreading or want to give time to prove themselves one way or another.

100% scumpost. I'm driving home now be back in a bit.

[AngryPidgeon]

Welp, had poker night at my house and now its late. Ive been loosely skimming from my phone.

Off the top of my head, Snork still looks town.

Its harder to fake emotion as scum, IMO. But this could just be a personality difference with people who think the opposite (Rogers). I think content is pretty fakable especially when things like lurking and OMGUS can pass as heuristics for scumtells/content. And parsing information and passing judgements on it isn't particularly difficult. But I think I tend to play more emotionally than logically (although definitely some mix of both) so I tend to get emotional feels on people and investigate/back them with logic.

[AngryPidgeon]

p-edit: Why anyone is pushing MR is outside my ability to understand. His intentions are so transparent. Another reason Talah is scum. MR comes around to scumreading him, and voila, MR is a magical lynch option.

This is a pretty bad reason to be scumreading talah. The only reason for him to be scumreading MR is because he as scum would want to look town from it. No way someone like talah as scum actually thinks he has a chance of lynching MR.

Uhhhhhh. So scum only ever scumread lynchable people? I hope you aren't serious.

[AngryPidgeon]

This man who believes my play scum and asked for meta, has not even looked at the meta he asked for.

Rogers having doubt or otherwise wanting to confirm his scumread on you is not a scumtell, nice try.

I feel overwhelmed with accusations to refute.

Not buying it. Talah gives Snork the runaround about shit for like 3 pages and declines to actually do anything useful, and know uses the pages he spent arguing about bullshit as a justification for not doing anything useful. Nope.

I don't see the logic behind Talah's sudden attack on MR. It doesn't make sense to me given the history in the thread.

This. Its not town-motivated.

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote: Luca

=====[]
[]=====

Then wth is this?

[AngryPidgeon]

yup roger's floodin thread

Ya holy crap guys. There was like 10+ pages about NOTHING that spawned over the weekend. Lets keep the game readable. Clearly Rogers is an UberNinja alt >.>

Aptil - why the hell are you still sitting on your vote. Like its not an explicitly scummy thing to do, but we've gone an entire day phase without seeing anything committal from you other than "Content = town, lurking = scum" and its HIGH TIME I see something INSPIRING from you to convince me NOT to vig the crap out of you tonight.

VOTE: Talah- This is much better than lynching Luca .

^ Oh, never mind. Elaboration on why from your perspective would be great; I don't recall you talking about Talah, but its possible I missed something in the weekend spam.

RachMarie has done fuck all and when questioned returns with the fact that she has a headache. <<<< Hello?????? Why is anyone townreading this????

My guess is that at least one or 2 scumbags are whiteknighting her (bipolar/talah) because they know they can point to towngames of hers and say that her playstyle being what it is is a town sign this game. And the rest of the people defending her are probably just bad. Although I think I recall seeing some decent posts from her recently.

Wich doesn't really strike me as a town response. Its not a 100% correct tell but I think scum are more likely to avoid responding to attacks. You also did the same to 4nx.

I disagree? I know for me at least, being confrontational is a pretty big scumtell. As scum, I tend to dig in and OMGUS hard or whatever. Totally ignoring pressure on you ALWAYS gets people to call you out. Rogers is new (supposedly?) so I guess he wouldn't be that aware, still Rogers is town though.

If I were scum would I play it as badly as this? Of course not

My first thought was to post a snarky picture here, but I actually kind of like this defense . It feels honest and like something along the lines of what I would say in a similar position.

P-edit: No, I just got here and saw that Zd is fake-hammering people again apparently which is what garnered the reaction. Not your question. Not that I actually expect your question to generate any good reply.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm starting to worry that Talah is getting bussed.

Awesome, help me bus Talah then.

Zdenek, you seem to think both talah and Luca are scum, but your vote remains on a pisskop wagon that realistically is very unlikely to take off. Why not consider moving it?

Zd, help

me

Luca bus Talah then.

If Luca is town he is the worst player I've ever played with. He's got to be scum, right?

Being the worst player you've ever encountered is likely a null-tell.

FWIW, Im not really interested in lynching Luca today. I get slightly townvibes off him being a blatant troll. Not much, but enough that Im expecting a townflip from him. And whoever was talking about bussing... There is way more motive to post a good case on your buddy if you are bussing. If you are going for credit, go all out. Sheeping cases on townies as you vote them is scummy as fuck. Lurkscum are more likely to just slide on a townwagon quietly to not draw attention to themselves. I think Luca is more likely to be town than not here so mostly moot, but I STRONGLY doubt Luca is scum with Talah.

I think his early attack on Mastin is genuine and good scumhunting (regardless of whether he's right or not), so I don't understand why people are making such a big deal about him not scumhunting.

No it wasn't? He omgus'd mastin, made a meta case on him based on his entry post (which he never elaborated on or backed up in anyway) and then decided he didn't care about mastin and wsa going to leave her to me to sort. So, no, no scumhunting happened there, just posturing and backpedaling out of what was looking like a 1v1. What about Talah's points on mastin were good by any stretch of the imagination? Given you have mastin in your not-lynch pile, this is particularly mindnumbing.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think this kind of stuff is wonderful town attitude.

Encouraging people to policy vote you and self-voting is a "wonderful town attitude"?

WOW. wow. (wow). WHAT?

When it comes to everyone else, I either would attack with you a hug if you suggested their lynch, be prepared to compromise on them, or would still not consider lynching them but have not put them in the list because I'm too lazy to have read them properly yet.

Where do I sit on your ^ above sortings and why?

Looking through Bipolar's ISO, his posts have a scummy feel to them.

Yes. Yes they do. Hes also been hardcore coasting ever since all the dumbs in the thread rained down towncred on him over the fake vig claim.

Dude was V/LA for a while and just got back and suddenly you find him scummy nope nope nope I do not buy it that is definitely scummy of you going for the low hanging fruit

Ok, wait a minute RM. In order for someone to be low-hanging fruit, they have to be actually low-hanging, which Bipolar is not due to all the towncred thrown at him. And Luca suddenly realizing someone is scummy makes sense given that Luca had shittons of posts to catchup on recently.

Rach's post literally make no sense; why would I jump off the wagon of the player with the second highest votes, to someone with no votes? How is that targeting low hanging fruit? I said his posts seem scummy, I never mentioned his V/LA. Rach is the one going for low-hanging fruit, not me.

Huh, actually if this flips scum, Rach needs to be turbo-lynched right after. Thsi could easily be scum QQing about being bussed.

[AngryPidgeon]

If I were scum would I play it as badly as this? Of course not

My first thought was to post a snarky picture here, but I actually kind of like this defense . It feels honest and like something along the lines of what I would say in a similar position.

You're joking right? That's a god-awful defence.

Logically? Yes, it is. Its combining self-meta and "Too scummy to be scum" into one in a way, but it reads town to me. I have a hard time seeing scum come up with that as a defense. And it makes sense, its easier to just make shit up then it is to actually crack the game from a town lens. That doesn't make it a GOOD defense, but I think its a town one.

[AngryPidgeon]

Aptil - why the hell are you still sitting on your vote. Like its not an explicitly scummy thing to do, but we've gone an entire day phase without seeing anything committal from you other than "Content = town, lurking = scum" and its HIGH TIME I see something INSPIRING from you to convince me NOT to vig the crap out of you tonight.

Why the hell should i change my vote ? When the fuck did i say lurking = scum ?

When I wrote that, I hadn't gotten to the post where you voted Talah - I just saw you still not-voting. My point is that you spent like 3/4 of the game Day not voting which is anti-town.

I then saw your vote on Talah right after, but decided to still post the above because...you spent 3/4 of the day not-voting which is anti-town.

I oversimplified your one analysis post a bit, but you flat out called Yates town for having content, which is pretty weak.

Your later posts feel busy and you definitely called DG out for active lurking. You seem to be implying hes scummy (and for that specifically) but waiting to see if other people agree.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yes, I'm obviously scum that's afraid to be ISO'd and I'm calling you scummy for it in hopes that no one reads my ISO. I've prob already been ISO'd to death and so what if I come across as "scummy". I'm much more interested in finding scum.

Note to self: ISO Nero Cain.

If so, why aren't you equally concerned about Pere's chainsaw post?

Do you think PV is scummy still? I don't see what is so interesting about PV wanting to look at the counter-wagoners to wagon hes voting for.

PV, did you ever explain your scumread on Snork?

[AngryPidgeon]

Luca Blight, claim in your next post.

[AngryPidgeon]

Notice he specifically pointed out later movers? That's not the same as looking at the counter wagon. That's an accusation. I'm wondering how he can raise a concern without knowing the alignments of either player. This pinged hard.

Meh, I see your point but I could easily see BROseidon, mastin, EtL and others doing that exact shit as town like that. It seems a little un-PV, but I dont think its scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, since you're here...

Blue below are additions I've made just now.

The only thing that really bugs me about Luca is the fact that my scum reads are advocating it as an acceptable lynch.

My top town reads right now are you

[Snow]

, MR, AP, Pisskop, Zd and mastin. Second tier would be Yates, DV, 4nx and pmatt.

Adding a third tier of null, maybe town, here: DG, Luca

Top scum reads are Talah, Thad, aptil,

DG,

Nero,

Rach.

Nulls are

nero (for now - his ISO is on my list), Luca,

and PV (who I was originally scum reading, but not sure if correct yet based on other posts).

Where would you disagree?

Actually, I'd like

MR,

penguin_alien

, mastin, PK, AP, and Zd to collab with me on these as well.

Ok, is there something you wanted to talk about specifically?

As far as reads go I'm somewhere around:

Town core: Penguin, Snork, PV
Probably town: Nero, Yates, DG, anxiety, snowstorm, Luca

I liked DV, but some of his recent opinions are less than sensible so Im bumping him into "not willing to lynch Today, someone should probably investigate this"-ville.
Zdenek I really don't know what to make of this game. I sort of like his reads, but not quite comfortable calling him town.

RM, matt, mastin are great targets for investigative PRs right now.

Scummy: Talah, Admiral, aptil, pisskop, Bipolar

[AngryPidgeon]

I would be unwilling to lynch the following:
talah (obviously)

Honestly, since Luca seems vaguely scummy and is the biggest non-Talah wagon, I am happy putting my vote there. Basically he's not delivered his promised posting but is not aspiring to be better whatsoever where I think town here would want to try harder, especially considering his comment about being too bad to be scum.

Curb your inner puppy-murdering urges and vote Luca Blight today!

Trimmed his wont-lynch list, but .. This with the following vote hop onto Luca is Sketchy McSketcherson

[AngryPidgeon]

1) I wanted to see the differences between your scumreads and mine, and ask you what you see that I may be missing, and then figure out if I agree or not;

I actually kind of glazed over yours at first, but I see Admiral, aptil, Talah are in both, so that is a solid place to be voting imo. I don't see how anyone can have pisskop down as probably town though.

2) To see if there's anyone in your townreads that I felt really didn't belong there, and look into why.

I see you disagree on PV and moreso Nero. I'd ask you why you think Nero is scum, but I don't particularly care. This looks like town-Nero. Him being abrasive and tunneling on obvtown Rogers for random reasons is pretty par. Its possible hes scum, but I reallllly am not seeing it here.

- I'm guessing that RM, mastin and matt are your nulls? Would it be appropriate to add DV to your list of "good PR targets"?

Ya, those 4 are pretty much middle of the road for me. Mastin hasn't posted enough to be readable yet. RM is rm. I disliked her calling Luca out for voting low-hanging fruit right before hopping on the old wagon, but thats the only thing shes done that I find really interesting. Matt's Yates vote was bad, and his Luca vote is , but I liked some of his opinions about lurkers and play in general. DV's Talah defense is pretty bad, not sure if its scum though.

- Regarding your town read of Nero, do you think his reaction to me the last page or two is alignment indicative at all?

Yes, town.

- I can understand why you have aptil and Bipolar in your scum lists. How strong are those reads? If one or both are town, who would you replace them with?

Uhhhhh, one of RM, mastin, DV, matt? I guess RM or DV if I had to sort this list right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, you think attacking someone for asking others to ISO them is a town reaction?

Nero is being indignant and tunnely and it looks town, so yes.

[AngryPidgeon]

- Talk to me about Pisskop. Why are you scumreading him?

My scumreads are Yates, DG, Anxiety. Ive got room for mild reads on AP, Luca, RM, and increasingly talah.

All of his main scumreads are on probable townies. His back up scumread on me has no development, Luca/RM are easy reads, and his "increasingly Talah" read sounds an awful lot like "Oh shit, Talah's getting lynched. Better get some towncred for it" and it doesnt really make sense with his other stated reads.

Another top detective, deducing that voting for a scumread is scummy.

This just feels fake and like scum caught for the wrong reasons.

Im pretty sure at one person everybody (else) considers town is a scummy scummy man.

This is such a weak opinion. It looks like doing something for the sake of looking busy.

He was apparently scumreading Rogers, then later unvotes and drops some awkward tidbit about not having meta on anyone. Annnnnd its gone! His scumread on Rogers is just gone after that.

And I dislike that hes trying to mislynch Yates for ~reasons~.

[AngryPidgeon]

The Yates scumreads don't make sense to you? I disagree with them, but I can understand them, so the pushers on that one aren't as scummy looking to me, I suppose. (I'm lazy or I'd be more specific with names, but I'm a pothead and don't remember).

Uh? Yates looks pretty town and Pisskop swoops in to wagon him with no reason after Matt votes him [yates] for no reason.

He hasn't really talked about Yates (other than his catchup?).

[AngryPidgeon]

And Talah started off really strong, and quickly descended into insane scum. At least that's the way it looked from my POV, so his "increasingly Talah" could be either town coming out of tunnel mode or scum prepping to bus, so I don't think it's a good tell.

Eh, fair enough. I'd feel better about him if he weren't voteparking Yates

[AngryPidgeon]

There's a lot there so it's a bit hard to nail it down, but basically.. he was accused of something, and instantly showed his own history. It's kind of a soft and subtle tell for me, but it works so well in conjunction with others. Scum spend most of the time trying to blend in, move with the town, and hope to end up with a mislynch at the end of the day. That takes focus. It takes reacting to town's whims - not initiating their own motives (mostly). When you're reacting, you aren't planning who you're going to poke at next, or who you're going to watch, or what you "reads" are. You're simply trying to make it look like you are. In short, scum aren't going to be able to refute accusations as fluidly as town are. And this post shows pisskop being able to do just that without breaking a sweat. And you know what? He didn't even attack me in the end. He just showed me his evidence and moved on. <<< That's a townie attitude.

Except all he did was a quote a shitload of posts by himself and point out that he had poked at Anxiety before. That isn't town? If he had organically coughed up a lot of reasons for thinking Anxiety was scummy from memory then Id say its more likely, but him quoting his ISO and saying "Lol, ya I guess you COULD be right" isn't town. I mean its not explicitly scummy, but its not town either.

And I don't know what you are smoking (weed apparently) but "trying to blend in with the town" != reactionary play. When Im scum, Im typically pretty aware of who Im pushing, CERTAINLY enough so that I could ctrl+f my iso for posts about "Anxiety" and link them if my vote on Anxiety got called opportunistic.

[AngryPidgeon]

Did you go read the whole exchange?

I skimmed it, I don't see what you think Im missing.

You called his anxiety vote opportunistic and unexplained. He linked to his posts where he talked about Anxiety?

This makes him [Town, Scum, Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Lazer Beams Out Of Its Ass] specifically because?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh. I'm ready for Today to end.

Luca needs to claim so we can actually react if hes obvious levels of town afterwards. Hes going to end up being a Town Cop, isn't he. Shitty D1 lynches always land on the Town Cop.

[AngryPidgeon]

If we all focus on it really hard, maybe we can summon mastin with our minds.

[AngryPidgeon]

OK, STOP THE PRESSES. I'VE FOUND SCUM!

Basically I don't want to bus Talah or be seen on the Luca mislynch. So I decided to look back through the thread to try to rally support for a distraction

[AngryPidgeon]

5 + 1 is too many not-towns for 20.

[AngryPidgeon]

Its probably that or just 5 based on game size.

Id rather not spec on it since we'll probably know way more after N1 anyways.

[AngryPidgeon]

I also think your "hey, I never knew you were scumreading me so nope not OMGUSing you!" is kinda scummish 'cause that's basically what APscum did to me in Harry Potter.

I wasn't lying though, I legitimately was catching up and didn't know your slot was scumreading mine before I decided you would be an easy person to hedge on or whatever.

I ctrl+f-d Rogers iso for 'talah'. The count was 250. He 'only' posted 391 times. That's not "good scumhunting" and "town play" - it's "crazed obsession".
And it gets wearing. I don't know if he's scum, I don't know if I provoked him to it, I don't know if he's a Wake alt, I just don't even fucking know.

Rogers is gone, stop using him as an excuse.

Although I'm cautious of Nero's scumgame, I see this as a massive spontaneous subconscious slip.

What on earth do you possibly see in that quote that is a slip?

and really really didn't like AP whiteknighting him on his entrance

Wooo, buzzwords and mud slinging. Snork looks town and it was a slot that needed clarifying due to bjc being anti-town/lurksack. You are assigning scum motive to me calling someone town who I think is town.

AP - Shitslinging, "buzzword' scumhunting, riling Rogers up or riffing off him over me-scum (his ISO also has 100+ 'talah' mentions out of roughly 100 posts which is proportionally worse than Rogers which I just spotted. Even if you consider some of those are quotes - that's a lot of fucking focus to not be bringing a coherent case)

I don't post "caseS", I point out scummy things and explain why they are scummy. Like this. You ISOing people for instances of Talah is playing some ridiculous victim-card and Im sure you'll find MOST of my references to you have been quotes.

Guess who cares about having a case on them? SCUM. This "Oh there is no coherent case on me" is scummy as hell and basically amounts to "You can't PROVE Im scum". Scum like case-walls and points because they are refutable and its easy to look busy while doing so.

[AngryPidgeon]

At least one on each [Luca,talah} wagon should be scum.

Going to have to disagree with this.

If talah is town, then why are scum so hot to lynch Luca instead?

Ya, this exact thing happened in Street Racers Las Vegas and I was pretty stubborn about it.

But basically we had D1 late Day wagons on town and scum and out of nowhere the town wagon starts exploding with scum votes.

This Luca wagon looks like the exact same shit. Probably someone on the Luca wagon early is scum (matt?) and Talah and someone else helping swing the luca lynch over Talah (RM/DV?).

The only vote on Talah Im extremely worried about is aptil. Snowstorm feels town to me and Rogers/PV are town.

[AngryPidgeon]

I have to say that while the disappearing townreads on me offer me great amusement, I actually think it's rather silly. Is it because I'm townreading someone you're scumreading?

Its because you haven't done anything that looks very town recently and some of your opinions (about Talah in particular) are eyebrow raising.

I also am of the opinion that investigative PRs should be able to target whoever they like and believe that telling them who to target is pretty bad but whatever.

Wow. So Im not even allowed to state that I would like my null-heap investigated? The null-heap that has you in it? Yes PRs can investigate whoever the fuck they want, me making a singular post and listing my "whatever pile" as "Id like these people sorted" is not forcing anybodys hand nor is it bad. Its what Im thinking at the time and probably where I will be investigating if I have an investigative PR.

I mean, I'd actually feel wonderful about wagoning AP now, but if I tried to do that then I feel I'd just hurt talah's chances of surviving and not achieve anything else. Tomorrow I guess!

Oh btw guys Im scumreading AP for reasons that I don't care to share except that he said he wanted me investigated. Right.

[AngryPidgeon]

I skimmed the iai iso, I probably overstated/lied about how much of it I read.

[AngryPidgeon]

I want to lynch scum talah damn it. Now there are 2 cws to Luca wooo.

[AngryPidgeon]

I want to lynch scum talah damn it. Now there are 2 cws to Luca wooo.

And a counterwagon implies what?
Nice scumslip.

A counterwagon implies that its a wagon formed in response to another wagon.

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote: talah.

Talah was a scumread for much of the reasoning Rogers presented

That said, while talah's scum...
VOTE: Damon Gant.
...My scumread here is much, much stronger.

Luca Blight [9 votes] (4nxi3ty, projectmatt, Damon_Gant, Nero Cain, DeasVail, RachMarie, Yates, Zdenek, talah) [L-2]
talah [6 votes] (AngryPidgeon, penguin_alien, PeregrineV, SnowStorm, aptil, Luca Blight)

Let's start here. I remember both of these being townreads when I was here before. Why are we wagoning them?

Mastin, I'm town. Sheep me on this one please.

[AngryPidgeon]

Where did I ever - EVER - even IMPLY that I ignore my town reads?

?

[AngryPidgeon]

"I have all this free time but this game isn't important so I'm not gonna play."

Get out.

She said she isn't going to read 60 pages (and frankly shes not missing much), she never said she wouldn't play

[AngryPidgeon]

Nero, you are making something out of nothing here. Just saying.

P-edit: well. I get better reads by talking to people than I do reading things that happened, but meh. I agree its annoying, its not rage-worthy though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie?

[AngryPidgeon]

Everyone's reads on mastin that aren't "Don't know" at this point a re a joke, so don't feel betrayed yet.

[AngryPidgeon]

Where Im coming from with Talah?

His reads make less than zero sense this game, particularly on you. He started by OMGUSing you and calling you scum for META over your entrance post. Talah was pretty obsessed with you for no reason for the first half of the game in addition to scumreading you. But we get this backpedal and assertion that hes NOT trying to meta read you. He pulls back his read on you and vests his attention in voting lurkers (aptil/luca) and puts responsibility on me to read you in the same stride.

Edit: Mister, I'm not tackling mastin on a meta argument because I'm not an expert on mastin-meta

--
In general, scummy reactions to his own wagon, HUGELY reminiscent of my scumplay at places. Notable posts:

Here you go:

VOTE: Talah

And the reason I'm scum?

Terrible response.

Tries to discredit Rogers scumread on his slot, not actually scumreading Rogers though. A lot of the pages in the 40ish range were SNork/Rogers/Talah arguing about nonsense in which Talah smokes up the thread with nonsense and later complains that hes incapable of scumhunting in this game state.

Doesn't address issues on him, instead tries to imply hes town.

Tries to dicredit my push on him (like the Rogers one) by showing I haven't posted a formal case (#suckItTrebek):

AP - Shitslinging, "buzzword' scumhunting, riling Rogers up or riffing off him over me-scum (his ISO also has 100+ 'talah' mentions out of roughly 100 posts which is proportionally worse than Rogers which I just spotted. Even if you consider some of those are quotes - that's a lot of fucking focus to not be bringing a coherent case)

This actually IS just SCUMGUS.

LOOK AT THAT POST. THAT IS SCUM PLAY. IT LOOKS LIKE MY SCUMPLAY. FORMATTED PRETTY LISTS. SHITTY EASY LYNCHES TO THE FRONT WIT HA SPLASH OF OMGUS. THROAWAY QUIPS AT PEOPLE:

I want to lynch scum talah damn it. Now there are 2 cws to Luca wooo.

And a counterwagon implies what?
Nice scumslip.

.

Luca could be scum (doubting it, but meh). Talah. is. scum. though.

Your vote counts! Change we can believe in!

[AngryPidgeon]

Wait no. Its fucking Talah/mastin isnt it.

[AngryPidgeon]

At the very least your "he" feels like it's false and that it's a female scummer behind the keyboard. Have no clue what gives me that impression.

Don't worry, my one and only guess was a female scummer, so you aren't totally insane.

[AngryPidgeon]

1) Talah and mastin have a slapfight at the beginning of the game. Mastin ends up voting for DamonGant and sidelining her Talah suspicion.
2) Talah hoes balls deep into this mastin scumread and even references a specific meta point about mastin that makes her scum.
3) Talah backpedals off of the mastin read and then somehow seems to KNOW that mastin is the one that asked me to replace in. He ASKS me if someone asked me to play or not, who the hell does that. There was no follow up on the question and no conclusion from it. I admit that I strongly (98%) suspect mastin is the one who recommended me to the mod. Talah insists that I be responsible for reading mastin because of SELFMETA from mastin stating that Im good at reading her.
4)???
5) Mastin's glorious return and CONVENIENT hard reset of her scumread on Talah that she had before and in fact is now asserting Talah was TOWN rather than CANT REMEMBER or NULL??

I could be insane, but I reallly think this looks like a Talah/mastin team.

[AngryPidgeon]

In particular I think Talah is trying to tie me to mastin by encouraging me to take an early read on her (and obviously I was scumreading Talah at the time and more likely to find mastin town by default).

The backpedal and reverting mastin to nullville looks forced and I really would not be surprised if mastin is orchestrating things behind the scenes here. I think Talah new that mastin asked me to replace in.

[AngryPidgeon]

MASTIN GET BACK HERE AND DO SOMETHING MEGATOWN ASAP TIA.

[AngryPidgeon]

Sorry? You are playing behind an alt and I like to dabble in the guess-the-alt game despite not being good at it. I know at least one person that plays behind an alt of a different gender. No offense intended, but you reminded me of a player I know. I could be wrong.

[AngryPidgeon]

They are. And ok. I mean you look and act experienced so I assumed you had a ton of games under your belt (alt).

[AngryPidgeon]

You can tell me why Im wrong about Talah/mastin since apparently Im insane.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because all of mastin's early posts show a pretty clear intention to find scum, not just make noise. Plus your reasoning doesn't make sense for Talah/mastin buddies.

I'd tell you that your townread on mastin is premature, but that would bring this debate full circle.

[AngryPidgeon]

No, you're insane.

(Which is generally a towntell.)

For me at least

If I were Kuribo, that would be a different matter.

Screw that. Megatownning myself intentionally is a scumtell. You either see me as town or you don't.

You know I don't mean that. I need SOMETHING from you though and this is a good start.

[AngryPidgeon]

It just seems like you came up with this because mastin isn't praising the Talah wagon right now, which is kind of appropriate given how disconnected she is from the thread.

Mmm, it fit together with a conspiracy theory that was brewing in the back of my head already. Im willing to give mastin the benefit of the doubt for now.

@Mastin: I don't know what to tell you about what happened in the game. Zdenek faked a dayvig on BipolarChemist who instaclaimed VT: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5748906
People sidelines a bit about whether or not that was a townie reaction. Bipolar has been lurking ever since. Zd flipped his read on Bipolar because of it.

Most people have been sitting on vanity wagons all day.

Pisskop had layover votes from Docholiday and Zd tried to shove that wagon a little, but for some reason no one seems seriously interested in it. Admiral started a pet flash-bang Anxiety wagon

4nxi3ty [4 votes] (ThAdmiral, Damon_Gant, talah, Luca Blight)

that people hopped off of the Luca wagon for.

Talah then got into pedantic spamwars with Mr. Rogers (now PA) and Snork after which he self-voted and became the leading wagon.

The Luca blight wagon sort of became a counterwagon after a few probtowns voted for Talah and exploded with RM, DV, Zd and Yates pushing it ahead.

Now they are both claimed VTs (Talah claimed first despite being L - 5).

It seems like most people have their vanity wagons at heart, no serious consensus on anyone. Luca feels like a default lurker lynch to me since hes an easy compromise.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP-If you think Talah and Mastin are scum why do you not think Rogers is scum for trying to get me to scumread Mastin?

Why would scum-Rogers try to convince you to scumread his buddy?

[AngryPidgeon]

LUCA. I SEE YOU AROUND. HOW ABOUT PUTTING IN THE REMOTEST AMOUNT OF EFFORT TO GET THIS WAGON OFF OF YOU.

[AngryPidgeon]

this seems to imply that you think Talah was trying to get you to read her scumbuddy so why do you think Rogers is incapable of that?

I don't think Talah was expecting or trying to get me to SCUM read mastin though, more the opposite.

[AngryPidgeon]

It is to me cuz I don't think scumreading Luca makes sense.

Sadly, it does. At least scumreading Luca is not a scumtell. Hes doing things that people like to jump on. If hes town, then its easy for scum to hop on with all the townies and stir shit up about trolling and lurking and activity which is lame but its what it is. I don't get why Nero thinks Talah is town, but him voting Luca is not alignment indicative by itself.

P-edit: I -did- see something going both ways there, but whatever. I said already mastin looks par for the town-course at the moment so Im giving her the benefit of my doubt. Plus Talah is just scum regardless.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow, I can't tell if you are scum and have given up or if that post is just hilariously town.

[AngryPidgeon]

^ As well you should be.

Talah's point that his name shows up in my ISO is awful and just proof that I've quote stripped. And ya the drama is overdone.

P-edit: If snork is scum I will be preeeetty surprised.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ed: even if you've quote striped that's a LOOOOOT of references.

And this is alignment indicative in anyway because?

[AngryPidgeon]

unvote, vote: aptil

Nooooo. Im not having another street racers: Las Vegas.

[AngryPidgeon]

Plus, that entire post is far more dramatic than is necessary when your wagon is L-6 and Luca is L-1.

You may think it's dramatic but I think it's the best move for town to lynch one of Luca or myself for the reasons given. "It's wagon analysis, stupid!"

I really really really REALLY hope you are scum here because this is awful. Luca is the leading wagon. You decide to split the vote onto YOUR wagon and posture about how ONE OF YOU needs to get lynched today?

If you are town then this is mindblowingly anti-town, borderline blacklist worthy and your follow up that you still think Luca is a good lynch makes it even worse.

I mean Im pretty sure you are just scum and going for broke at this point, but wow.

[AngryPidgeon]

If you are town then this is mindblowingly anti-town, borderline blacklist worthy and your follow up that you still think Luca is a good lynch makes it even worse.

Oh fuck you. Stop backing off your scumread.

Ok, so you are just scum then, got it.

[AngryPidgeon]

I am a bit stunend that PA has managed to not make a single post yet.

[AngryPidgeon]

flashwagons hit scum all the time, and they're funnest!

Yes, but there isn't really enough consensus or time for one right now and trying to start one will just (pick one or more of the following)
[] end day in a no-lynch
[] generate a 4th D1 claim
[] lynch someone without a claim
[] leave distractions around for tomorrow

[AngryPidgeon]

No I'm reading you perfectly fine, mate.

This is a scumclaim.

[AngryPidgeon]

About 48 hours left. Both wagons are L - 3 by my count.

PA I hope you have something amazing to say.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm about 12 hours away from just voting whatever wagon is leading.

[AngryPidgeon]

You guys aren't just cross-bussing each other, right?

[AngryPidgeon]

no-one knows if we are telling the truth or not, so they are going to have to believe one over the other to achieve a lynch.

Err except like ThAdmiral is demonstrating with his aptil counterwagon that we DONT have to believe one of you is scum. It is plausible (well not really if you are halfway decent at being town) to think you are both town.

[AngryPidgeon]

If Talah flips town can we lynch Snork?

I'll admit I've been secretly paranoid about Snork over a few things.

Snork trying to CW Thadmiral and calling a stupid null-post a scumclaim in bold felt over the top dramatic. The point about you not wanting to be ISOd feels like a convenient case and he is sort of keeping you at arm's length instead of actually pushing on you?

I must not waver, Snork is still p town. Also, talah wont be flipping town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also leave me scratching my head. We lynched scum D1 in that game. However we got there.

Yes we did, but the progression of the Day was still absurdly anti-town and draining.

[AngryPidgeon]

given that scum might not make the effort to see that it's her town game.

What effort did he make?? He called her town and never backed it up.

[AngryPidgeon]

Then why don't you vote Luca if you like Luca over Talah?

Voting a teeny wagon this close to deadline benefits town in no way PA.

This is exactly why I reference street racers. Aptil very wel could be scum, but we aren't going to start throwing random wagons around 2 days before DL on D1 of a LARGE.

[AngryPidgeon]

We have 26 hours left, Nero.

I don't think I said Luca is town for "I made my bed" sentiments. Him saying that he would have played better as scum felt genuine to me, partly cause I agree that its easier to just fake it as sucm whereas town actually has to put in effort to figure things out. This doesn't make him town, but its a pretty hardsell for scum to defend themselves with anyhow and it read honest to me.

Talah saying he and Luca are equally good lynches and then self voting despite being the smaller wagon is just ham and bad. Luca hasn't been selfvoting or otherwise saying hes a good lynch as far as I remember.

[AngryPidgeon]

What is your read on Snork?

I think this is directed at Luca, but

I think Snork is town. I've had my eye there recently and I think Snork looks a little worse after the argument with you; it felt a little like someone trying to shrug you off rather than actually scumhunt you, but overall I find SNork's play townish and in the way that would be difficult to fake as scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

Scum still have to make the effort to form a coherent case. Sure, town have got the thought process of trying to figure out who's scum, but scum have to go through the process of thinking how every post they make is going to reflect on them. I don't buy your argument.

Playing the way Luca has is a very legitimate tactic as scum - just coasting through Day 1 while providing town with absolutely nothing. There are lots of players here who would have happily let him get away with it.

I don't think its conclusive evidence for him being town, its just a weird/unlikely argument for scum to make IMO.

Aptil and Bipolar and somewhat RM (although shes posted more things recently IIRC) have also coasted through the Day with limited contributions.

Unless you think Luca was doing it intentionally (we're back to this discussion apparently) which is POSSIBLE but who knows, I find it more likely he was just apathetic about the game or busy which is also not a tell.

[AngryPidgeon]

yeah was directed at Luca but I mean...

Talah needlessly self-voted, using Mister Rogers as an excuse (who had already replaced out) while claiming he still thought I was scum. He then changes his vote back as soon as someone asked him to,

Talah saying he and Luca are equally good lynches and then self voting despite being the smaller wagon is just ham and bad

this seems p much what Snork did (he voted for Thad with 3 days till deadline while still not thinking Talah was town and then switched back.)

I don't get your point. Snork never threw in the towel, self-voted, and called himself an acceptable lynch despite there being other wagons?

His Thad wagon wasn't going anywhere this late in the Day, but it could easily be from town?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, sorry, I think that was L-1.

Why did you feel the need to apologize for this?

We've had claims for days now and there is basically one day until no lynch.

[AngryPidgeon]

For fucks sake

[AngryPidgeon]

Intent to hammer if nothing has happened in a few hours.

[AngryPidgeon]

Honestly, what are you actually waiting for?

A talah lynch, but it doesn't look like its happening.

Mastin, do you have anything to add?

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin, talk to me about Damon. Im wondering if he hasn't been a huge blind spot in my peripheral.

I think Im leaning towards a Pisskop vote. He was scummy and the DV kills makes sense for it. Im guessing Talah was SKdVigd.

[AngryPidgeon]

DV kills makes sense for it.

Err Zd* kill. Your avatars are both foxes :X

[AngryPidgeon]

Im saying Pisskop was Zd's favorite lynch for a long time. And Zd got scum-killed. Pisskop was a scummy person in the first place.

[AngryPidgeon]

You think scum would kill someone they were already trying to lynch?

I don't see why not? Zdenek wasn't getting lynched anytime soon.

[AngryPidgeon]

No Talah. You will be mourned.

Also I have to say I'm relieved that I wasn't wrong about you. That would have killed me.

AP, I am also reconsidering my read on Damon, but I'm thinking of voting for you, so this is kind of awkward!

Nero, give me a short thing on why I should vote for PA.

I'll work on sorting my reads tomorrow.

I don't see what is awkward about that
Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?
This post just -feels- fake to me

[AngryPidgeon]

post 1733-1734 by mastin feel like trying to paint me, damon, and thad badly for the incoming mislynches. Although it could be town suspicious of the wagons. We'll see how mastin plays today.

This paranoia is still probtown.

I don't know what to make of matinWKing the lynches. It felt wrong but its something mastin is easily capable of as either alignment. I guess I expected more fervor, but the V/LA is making mastin disjoint from the game anyhow. Like I -think- mastin is town based off her tone and attitude, but I realllly need more before I start getting paranoid.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also pa... where is the rest of your catch-up? Your analysis? Nothing to say except sniping at Nero for voting you?

I still have her as town, but she seems determined to blow all of the towncred Rogers had.

RM, did Luca play similarly in both games? Just because he was scum in one doesnt make him scummy in this one? I agree with Snork about this feeling like a guilty justification, ESPECIALLY since RM was getting criticized for her vote hop onto Luca specifically yesterday.

P-edit: No? Talah and Luca were both town and mastin was Whiteknighting them both. I see Anxiety's point although I dont think its accurate.

[AngryPidgeon]

[AngryPidgeon]

^Thats town enough that we aren't lynching it Today.

VOTE: TheWayItEnds

[AngryPidgeon]

Snork, your anxiety push feels awfully forced.

[AngryPidgeon]

If he's anything but a scumread, yeah, he's been a blindspot of yours. Dude's pure scum. However...

Ya ok. While this looks an awful lot like a #mastinpost, its not really doing it for me. Id like to actually talk about DG, why is he scummy?

nightkills are largely WIFOM so AP's "that XD kill points to pisskop" is p dumb. You should know this 2012

Not really? NKs happen for a reason, and they usually point to something. It -can- be chalked up to Pr hunting, but Pisskop is scummy on his own accord and I see motive to kill Zd on top of that.

Nero, give me a short thing on why I should vote for PA.

Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?

Why DV and not Rach?

The way DV said that feels wrong? Its like hes asking you to do some legwork on a PA case so he can sheep it. RM's post was just asking for content from you. One reads like someone trying t ohedge onto voting PA, the other reads like someone asking you to post more content.

P-edit: Fucking. Pisskop was scummy BEFORE the Zd kill. The Zd kill is more reason to vote him IMO, its not a fucking complete case on its own 2 legs.

[AngryPidgeon]

Post-flip reads:
Town:

DeasVail

Aptil

BipolarChemist

Why?

[AngryPidgeon]

Can you quote Mastin's WKing of Talah. He had a scum read on him early but when he come back and "forgot" he had a scumread on Talah. Yeah, Mastinscum would know they are both town and "forget" his scumread and try for town cred but that's not whiteknighting.

Talah and Luca are both town. Damon and anxiety are both scum.

To be honest I think I've made my bed with this one, it's my own fault if I get lynched, I take full responsibility.

I would be favourable to a quick-wagoning of Rach, but from the general perspective of the town either me or Talah (VT v VT claims) is going to be the best bet, and as I have already given my vote to Talah there isn't a lot more I can do!

I started the game lazily, but in a way where if I was another player, I would look at me and think "yeah, that guy must be town, he just doesn't give a f*ck!".

Clearly this tactic has backfired, but as others seem to agree I feel there is definitely some scum on my wagon, so when I'm gone go and hunt them down!

Okay, guys. This is insanely town. Why do you want it dead, exactly?

(For the record--talah looks town for this post, too.)

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm just past page 40 on my catch up now. I guess I'll give a quick update on thoughts now.

I'm copying a lot of these notes from my notebook. I won't be going into too much of a wall, people just skim those, so I'm open to any and all questions if you need me to elaborate.

First 500 Posts:
I found peregrine to be very town acting, helpful and overall decent. I found Mister Rogers the same way, I liked his reads and they feel honest, and he's very contributive. My interaction with Zdenek was interesting, I wanna throw him into the town pile, but I'm not quite ready to. Talah felt very flip floppy, one second inferring he doubts the Fake Vig stuff, but then, in the same post, says I'm most likely town.

This is just a bunch of scummy Information Instead of Analysis.

AngryPidgeon came out swingin' onto the quiet Pisskop, I like the idea of him getting lurkers to talk, not fully sure on him though. I did like Yates doubt of the Fake Vig thing, I found it to be a good perspective that wasn't mentioned yet, but his posts just became big one-shot walls of unhelpfulness, and

I quickly started to find him scummy

. Mastin is still null-scum, but I don't wanna comment until he's back and not dealing with shit.

This is non-committal to the extreme and doesn't really feel genuine?

DeasVeil hasn't posted too much, but I find him decently town. I don't like Thad's or Project Matt's liking of the Fake Vig, seems disgenuine and like they're trying to buy townie points, PM then was very on the fence, not taking a side on the matter.

Hes very much focused on the vig interaction, almost obsessively which is a pretty easy thing for scum to sideline on.

Posts up to about 1000:
Peregrine continued to seem town for the same reasons to me. Same with Rogers. DeasV seemed to drop right off here, I doubt it's scummy, but my town feel is going away. I now like Angry Pidgeon's pushing a lot more, looking more town. I find Pisskop to be decently town acting, not particularly contributive in volume, but he keeps some discussion going.

Snork's entrance into the game was big and seemingly town, as time went on I began to question some of his stuff, I want to put him in my town pile, but I just can't yet. Snow still has barely said anything enough to post on, same with aptil. Zdenek also seemed to go away...

Nothing here looks town? Hes just throwing reads at people and commenting on who is contributing and who isn't.

Thad moved from scum to null for me, I found him to be quite a bit more useful and contributive. Rach still hasn't done much, coasting, unvoting even though she said she hadn't caught up. Nero moved right into my scum pile, unhelpful in kind of an annoying way. Talah's drunk posting was funny, but I still think he's scum. The Oracle claim feels weak, and I don't like it. Yates kept on doing what he does, not changing my opinion of him.

And he actually thought Talah was claiming something serious? The fuck? There is nothing town about this post, so why do you have this guy as lolmegatown?

[AngryPidgeon]

Town: Nero, Peregrine, Anxiety, aptil (pretty town for vig claim)
Probably town, want to talk to them more: Yates, mastin
Town? Possibly stale reads, could be (probably is?) a scum here: Snork, PA, Snowstorm, Damon Gant
Meh: Pmatt, RM
Scummy: TheWayItEnds, Bipolar, ThAdmiral, DV

[AngryPidgeon]

(snork might be town for the "oops nvm you posted that today" - showed a genuine reaction imo along with taking time to look at a player and going back to look at the context)

Really? I dont see how making a point on someone and then taking it back because its provably wrong is a town tell?

[AngryPidgeon]

lol... he's not lolmegatown. He's probably the most easily moved out of that section, but I like it. What do you want me to say? The flips hit me like a ton of bricks and I have a lot of shit to look over.

Using the flips as a wildcard excuse for reevaluating everything is a copout that Ive seen scum use before. I'd like you to say WHY it looks town? That was sort of the point of me engaging you about the post you said looked town.

[AngryPidgeon]

wut? Are you seriously accusing me of excusing my read on BPC when I've stated multiple times where it comes from? I am reevaluating everything cuz I was dead fucking wrong on talah and not only that but Luca flipping town as well throws a huge wrench into my methods.

You should be reevaluating as well, yet you question ME about doing so? Obviously I don't have a good answer for my BPC read. I never said it was rock solid, and even when you asked about him and DV together it should have been pretty clear based on the answer I gave you that it was a gut read, yet you are acting like this is news.

It was a more general statement, you aren't the only person doing it. I picked apart the post you said looked town (it doesn't look town) and you are refusing to talk about your superstrong top-tier sudden townread on Bipolar which is apparently also based on Talah/Luca being town? I dont get it. And yes reads shouldnt be static, but I find the whole "OMG my scumread flipped town, BETTER REREAD THE WHOLE THREAD AND REEVALUATE EVERYTHING" to be excessive/unnatural.

[AngryPidgeon]

That is not at all how I'm acting. In fact, you're asking me questions about my reads, and I'm answering in the context of my reread. How can you then say that I'm excessively talking about reevaluating when you're the one who keeps asking me about it?

Thats the point, you've just been saying that you need to and being all dramatic about it without actually doing anything? And somehow DV and Bipolar made it into your TOPTIER town reads and when I ask you about why, I get these OMGUSy posts from you in which you argue the exact nature of your re-evaluation instead of explaining where the damn Bipolar read came form:

Post-flip reads:
Town:
DeasVail
Aptil
BipolarChemist

Probably town:

Am I wrong in assuming this was supposed to be a STRONG READS list? You grouped Bipolar in with aptil who is ridiculously town for his claim right now.

Second, I never said he was a super strong townread. I even mentioned it yesterday when he posted that, that I liked the post and thought it made him town. I also never said it was based on talah or luca being town. I don't know if you are just not understanding what I'm saying if you are purposely trying to twist it to fit your agenda, but in either case, I'm not "refusing to talk" about it. That's all I've been doing.

Ok? Then your posted reads list was rather confusing. How strong of a read is it?

It's not a strong read. There aren't a million details I can point to be all like "LOOK HOW TOWNIE HE IS" cuz it's not there.

Can you point at 1 detail at least?

I don't really know how many times I can answer the same question - IT'S A GUT READ BASED ON HIS RETURNING POST. IT SOUNDED GOOD TO ME. I LIKED THE THOUGHT PROCESSES, I LIKED THE RESPONSES.

I mean.. what the fuck do you want? Why are you all of a sudden so hung up on BPC? If you think he's scum, fucking push him.

Im hung up on YOU for grouping BPC into a towntowntown list then getting upset when called out on it and never actually giving a good reason for him being there when I go back and reference the post in question.

Ugh Nero, are you right about this?

[AngryPidgeon]

Also town reading ThAd and 4nxi3ty for seeing what I did yesterday. Mild town read on mastin2 for not trying to blend into a wagon.

Really? Can you explain the Thad and Anxiety reads?

And this feels like a realllly weak reason to be townreading mastin. I could easily see mastin hard defending 2 town lynches as scum, why can't you?

[AngryPidgeon]

Or maybe they're both town and ThAd would like to distance himself from both of their wagons? I can't quite pick apart what the motive was, but I just didn't get it from a town POV. At least when he was on 4nx it seemed like he was on some one-man crusade he did believe in. Moving his vote onto another dead wagon...I don't know, just something doesn't feel right. It feels tokenistic - something I'd attribute to scum rather than town.

In hindsight, this looks an awful lot like just assigning scum motivation to Thad's vote arbitrarily.

I actually kind of like Thad's last wall.
And TheWayItEnd's entry feels genuine? His stance on Rogers makes a lot of sense and his engagement with Nero felt townie a little.
PA slot is still town although her reads are wack.

UNVOTE: TheWayItEnds

[AngryPidgeon]

No AP. I am getting frustrated with you because I've already answered the question and you just want to rush my process. Idgaf if you aren't satisfied with my reads. They make sense to me and if you're town, I hope they will eventually make sense to you. If you don't get the concept of how I group my reads, oh well. That's your problem, and not mine.

No, you never really justified the BPC read at all other than gut. Sure, I'll give you that, I get a lot of gut reads. But when I do I TRY to figure out why I have them so I can at least justify them if nothing else and hopefully vet myself to a degree? Your whole process on BPC makes no sense to me right now and you getting prickly about me talking about it (and not responding to my post ABOUT his to even try and talk to me about him?) is just .

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, Talah flipping town makes me mostly uninterested in lynching Rach right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok

Gun to your head, top 3 scumreads right now?

[AngryPidgeon]

Uhhhhhhhh. RM had a scumread on Luca in a newbie game. She thought he was playing the same here? She votes him?

I mean as far as reasons to vote someone go, thats weak, but I dont see how its as egregious as you are making it out to be.

[AngryPidgeon]

This IS me cutting slack.

Cases that involve "Player X lied -> they are scum" are typically wrong and often from scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

*Makes a post trying to prove that RM lied*
*IM NOT SCUMRADING HER FOR LYING*
You can call it unprompted but she definitely got flak for it at least Yesterday. You really ARE arguing that shes lying for this point to be valid. I could see town-RM actually voting Luca for this reason (even if its bad) and then explaining it after shes allowed to. Its actually a pretty big reach for scum to cook up this defense IMO. If shes town, then she really did vote Luca for that reason and she COULDN'T explain it until now so you scumreading her over this is circular logic at best.

[AngryPidgeon]

And its not like moving from Talah to Luca was explicitly scum motivated in the first place given that they were both town. If Talah was scum and Luca was town I could understand leaning towards seeing scum-motive behind the votehop rather than it just being from town, but what?

Why would RM, as scum, move her vote from one town to another for no reasons and then lie about it later? I mean I GUESS its possible, but it seems really unlikely?

[AngryPidgeon]

Cuz you've looked her ISO and she comes up completely townie, right?

So any opinion I have on RM is invalid because I haven't ISO'd her, ya - no.
I dont want to lynch her right now, I have her leaning town after recent posts. I won't argue that shes contributed less than Id like, but thats not really a tell for RM - or in general. Nothing shes done points to her being scum. Her reason for voting Luca is really in the so-bizarre-its-probably-town camp right now so Im leaning town on her. There are bigger fish to fry today than RM.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like what the fuck are you even saying AP.

Two wagons on town battling towards deadline. Where do scum put their votes?

You just answer that question.

You just fucking think about it yourself and stop asking me because apparently I'm the newbie that is fucking blind and thinks all these stupid things.

I'm the fucking newbie lol... who is scumreading the towniest town to ever town in this game

Don't fucking bother asking me AP.

I explain it as clear as fucking day and it's like banging my head against a goddamn brick wall. I am fucking tired of that.

What the actual fuck. Like earlier this morning you are all "Woe is me, Im so insecure, Im gonna take a break" and now you are so fucking pissed that people won't lynch RM that you're cussing me out over defending her? I mean for fucks sake.

Where do scum put their votes? I DONT KNOW, ANYWHERE? Two townies are getting lynched, so why is RM unvoting one townie to vote the other a TELL. IIRC she wasnt the only person to do it (Zdenek?). There was probably at least a scum on both wagons and plausibly one off. This one votehop is not a gamecracking scumtell of epic proportions.

I never called you a newb. Your argument is that the vote hop is from scum and shes trying to justify it with bullshit.
1) WHAT IS THE OBVIOUS SCUM MOTIVE FOR THE VOTE HOP. THERE IS NONE.
2) HER REASONING -COULD- MAKE SENSE FROM TOWN, I DONT SEE ANY REASON TO ASSUME SHES LYING?

[AngryPidgeon]

Rach is town.... Snork's reasoning for her being scum is good.... AP's reasoning for her being town is bad.

Mind blown.

[AngryPidgeon]

IT'S A GUT READ BASED ON HIS RETURNING POST. IT SOUNDED GOOD TO ME. I LIKED THE THOUGHT PROCESSES, I LIKED THE RESPONSES.

Ok, since you had time to literally comment on RM's entire ISO, could you actually take the time to expand on this like I asked?:

Reference to another ongoing game removed by mod.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wait woah this from a differnet game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ignore that last quote please, that was completely by accident and form another game...multiple tabs open.

[AngryPidgeon]

I do want you to expand on what I quoted from post 1822 though.

[AngryPidgeon]

p-edit: I didn't do that just now. As you can see it is unformatted and disorganized, and it only includes D1 and couple posts from the start of this day phase.

But no I do not have time right now. I am leaving work shortly and will have time in a couple hours.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't like that we are excusing shitty play just because this player always plays shitty.

If she's town, she has been dead fucking weight.

I get that, if you want to argue that RM is a policy lynch then argue shes a policy lynch.

Id rather lynch people who are actually scum though.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think rach is fucking scum. How are you now under the impression I just want to lynch her for being shitty?

Cause in 1890 you called her play shitty (not scummy) and then expressed disappointment that people didn't find that worthy of lynching.

Being useless is not a scumtell (not trying to take a shot at RM here). I mean take Luca. He didnt do a damn thing.

I'll actually read your RM wall and see how I feel about it.

--

PA, do you actually have any opinions on the whole RM situation?

[AngryPidgeon]

Or not? You think Rach is town, I think Rah is town. You shouldn't be encouraging him to push on Rach 'cause its noise.

Are you scum reading Snork now?

How did I encourage him to push Rach? Snork is raging at me out of nowhere over RM and its weird.

Ugh, I don't know. His sudden flop from being lost to "omg Rach is scum lynchlynchlynch" and rage feels forced and he found time to quote like every single RM post and call it useless but wont/cant explain his Bipolar townread. Im waffling.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP why do you keep saying I was lost? I never said that and never felt that I was lost. Reevaluating the game != lost... If I was lost, I would certainly say so.

I'm not raging. I'm frustrated. I'm annoyed at you because I do think you're town but I also think you're wasting my time. That's irritating. I don't understand why you are arguing with me over every read. If you disagree, then say that. Tell me I'm fucking wrong and that you think I'm totally missing the mark. But don't fucking waste my time asking me for my opinion when it doesn't seem like you actually want it.

.............
I want your bipolar explanation because Bipolar is a scummy person and you listing him as town suddenly STOOD OUT TO ME. I want it so I can HAVE A BETTER READ ON YOU. All I've gotten is walls about RM (ok we can blame each other for how that happened I guess?) and complaining that you dont have time to right me a goddamn 4 sentence max paragraph about your Bipolar townread.

[AngryPidgeon]

right

write*

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok, lets stop bitching at each other over bullshit and actually wagon scum today then?

I need to sort: Snowstorm, matt, damon, dv.

Are you townreading matt at all?

[AngryPidgeon]

matt, damon

lol

[AngryPidgeon]

I also don't think he was "a scummy person". The posts prior to his catchup are completely null, with the exception of his reaction the fake vig, which I thought wasn't townie, but not necessarily scummy either. He was a non-entity due to V/LA. To call that player "scummy" is.. well, unreasonable. It doesn't make sense.

Fair enough. I sort of projected my scumread of him onto my expectations for other people. And I guess (ironically?) I disagree about your assessment but it makes sense to me at least.

[AngryPidgeon]

@PA: Read on Snork and Snowstorm?