NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[Luca Blight]

Vote: Doc

[Luca Blight]

You can't read much from bjc's opening post; you have to question why scum would want to draw attention to themselves so needlessly early on, but it could be some sort of ridiculous bluff.

He comes across as apathetic, which I would attribute more to Town in the early stages of a game as opposed to scum.

[Luca Blight]

Apologies for my lack of activity thus far, I will commit a bit of time later to going through this thread and will post my reads then.

[Luca Blight]

I have been terribly busy recently which is the reason for my lack of posting, I have a day off tomorrow so will try and catch up then. It wouldn't feel right to post reads without having given the thread my full attention.

[Luca Blight]

So here's what's going to happen with my pet scumlurker over the next few days:

HAI LUCA

He'll post just around or after the next dodge with an opinion on one or two of the non-controversial but mentioned players, probably laying down suspicion on someone like bjc or a quizzical query on Admiral or Pere.

A couple of days later, he'll apologise for lack of content again, and promise a catch up in the next couple of days.

He'll come back with three or four days from deadline and post a strong position on a townie for bad reasons. Then he'll attack one or two popular alternatives, very gently mind you, and place his vote on said strong-positioned townie. Posting twice or three times in the process!

Then two days out from deadline he'll say his vote needs to change to the most popular town candidate for lynch, and if there's opportunity or division close to deadline, he'll compromise on whatever townie's available.

I'm an Oracle.

You've got me sussed.

[Luca Blight]

LOOK HOW MUCH FUN WE'RE HAVING!!!

Haha that is funny. You are coming across as town to me, as is Pisskop, so I will go ahead and UNVOTE: Pisskop

VOTE: 4nxi3ty

[Luca Blight]

Talah, so much digging going on. He claims I am a shoe-in for scum (absolute rubbish, since when has inactivity always equated to scum) and then self-votes. His opening posts also looked every so slightly dodgy.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Talah

[Luca Blight]

@mod:

^^ that does not belong here; CTRL+V fail on my part. Please delete.

--

@projectmatt:

If you believe that Luca is scum and Talah is the counterwagon, who on the Talah wagon is scum (besides Luca)?

---

I think I just really don't like the way Gant posts. BUT there's something subtly town about some of the things he says that I don't think scum would think to change. I can't really explain much better at the moment. I have to think on this a bit more. But it's there.

--

@MR,

I believe you are town, and I can see in your posts a genuine interest to get to the bottom of things. HOWEVER, responding to each post individually is really hurting things and I can see why Nero has a problem with you. Rather than being able to read people's responses to yesterday's posts, I have to sift through yours and this is requiring a lot more work than is necessary. It harms my ability to scumhunt properly. I now have to set aside

several hours at a time

to read every one of your 1-2 line posts and people's responses to them, and formulate my thoughts, rather than an hour here and there during the day. You are drowning out other people. Please tone it down.

Also - what is the purpose behind this post?

@Luca: Get off the Talah wagon, you're making it look bad. Please self-vote. kthxbai.

--

Regarding Luca

- this lynch has bad mojo and the wagon is filled with scumreads! Lurking aside, this is far more troubling! The case on Luca that I have seen is that his lurking

may

be scum motivated and some of his posts

may

be excuses, but these are not provable! Talah's posts, actions, and votes have a verifiable history IN THIS THREAD of being scum. There are

verifiable inconsistencies, a neglect to scum hunt, lies, opportunistic votes, and unwillingness to be accountable for his reads/actions IN HIS ISO

. Stop ignoring it!

--

RachMarie has done fuck all and when questioned returns with the fact that she has a headache.

<<<< Hello?????? Why is anyone townreading this????

--
to be continued... (post 1120)

I'm glad someone is able to look at this rationally, and not just assume that lack of activity = scum. If I were scum would I play it as badly as this? Of course not, but then from your perspective this could be a bluff in itself. It's early days in this game, and if I tried to be as enthusiastic as Mister Rogers I would end up burning myself out. Closer to the deadline I will probably get scumhunting, although Talah looks a decent bet for now for the reasons Snork stated!

[Luca Blight]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p5760643]

Talah, so much digging going on. He claims I am a shoe-in for scum (absolute rubbish, since when has inactivity always equated to scum) and then self-votes. His opening posts also looked every so slightly dodgy.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Talah

I think this is bussing. That "so slightly dodgy" gives it away.

40

Keep clutching those straws, mate!

[Luca Blight]

LOL at "ever so slightly dodgy opening posts" being a legit reason for voting someone now.

Better than voting for someone for inactivity

Don't take the language so literally, I think it's clear what I meant.

[Luca Blight]

Keep clutching those straws, mate!

Nice contribution there. Tell me why you're not scum. Tell me who is and why, with more concrete reasoning than "[ever] so slightly dodgy" opening posts. Ideally quote or link to incriminating posts and give decent reasons.

I am town because I recieved a role PM telling me so. When I find out who is scum, you will be the first to know

[Luca Blight]

At this stage I think it's probably best if we consolidate our position by flipping me and then looking at the reasons people joined my wagon with that information available.

sounds townie but I guess its possible for scum to fake. *shrugz*

I honestly think that that is the scummiest thing that talah has posted.

If Luca is town he is the worst player I've ever played with. He's got to be scum, right?

That hurts.

When you say I am the worst player you have played with, do you really mean the most inactive? Because I don't see what else I've said for you to have that opinion.

[Luca Blight]

Looking through Bipolar's ISO, his posts have a scummy feel to them.

I may elaborate later but for now will

Unvote

Vote: BipolarChemist

[Luca Blight]

ok wait a minute here Luca.

Dude was V/LA for a while and just got back and suddenly you find him scummy nope nope nope I do not buy it that is definitely scummy of you going for the low hanging fruit

VOTE: Luca

I never said he was definitely scum, and I could reverse your ''low hanging fruit' argument back onto you.

[Luca Blight]

Anyone find it strange how Rach has said nothing of note, then comes and votes for me (the easy target) when I vot for Bipolar, who calimed earlier in the game Rach was definitely town based on nothing? She brings up this V/LA stuff, which was irrelevant to my voting of him.

Wouldn't surprise me if they were both scum.

[Luca Blight]

Rach's post literally make no sense; why would I jump off the wagon of the player with the second highest votes, to someone with no votes? How is that targeting low hanging fruit? I said his posts seem scummy, I never mentioned his V/LA. Rach is the one going for low-hanging fruit, not me.

[Luca Blight]

I am also a VT, which explains my relaxed attitude to the possibility of being lynched - I accept at this point I probably would be an informative lynch to some extent.

[Luca Blight]

If me and Talah were a scumteam I would have tried to blend into the town a lot more, so there would never have been a me v Talah situation in the first place. Personally I'm not certain Talah is scum, but I think there is a decent chance of it and it wouldn't overly surprise me if he flipped scum. As my Bipolar wagon has no legs I might as well

Unvote

Vote: Talah

This isn't an attempt to save myself, it's just that we're both claiming VT, and while I know I'm a VT I can't be sure of him, but either way it will make for an informative lynch I'm sure, without risking lynching a PR!

[Luca Blight]

LUCA. I SEE YOU AROUND. HOW ABOUT PUTTING IN THE REMOTEST AMOUNT OF EFFORT TO GET THIS WAGON OFF OF YOU.

To be honest I think I've made my bed with this one, it's my own fault if I get lynched, I take full responsibility.

I would be favourable to a quick-wagoning of Rach, but from the general perspective of the town either me or Talah (VT v VT claims) is going to be the best bet, and as I have already given my vote to Talah there isn't a lot more I can do!

[Luca Blight]

I started the game lazily, but in a way where if I was another player, I would look at me and think "yeah, that guy must be town, he just doesn't give a f*ck!".

Clearly this tactic has backfired, but as others seem to agree I feel there is definitely some scum on my wagon, so when I'm gone go and hunt them down!

[Luca Blight]

Talah, you are correct in that one of us does indeed need to die tonight.

If you are lynched and flip town, I will try my best to fill the void left by you in this game!

[Luca Blight]

AP and Snork are both either definitely town, or are very good scum players

[Luca Blight]

It's neck and neck!

It's sure to be an exciting finish, even if the right outcome (if there is one) isn't reached! Not sure what more I can do other than reiterate I am indeed a VT, but if you choose to believe Talah over me I will try to not take it personally

[Luca Blight]

You have to question what the purpose of Talah's self-vote was considering he has just changed it back again anyway.

What did he gain from it? Seems like mind games to me.

[Luca Blight]

"Why are you now talking as though it's a foregone conclusion that one of us is lying?" - In what way am I doing that? You even highlighted the bit that says you might flip town, which clearly shows that isn't what I'm saying at all. I reaffirmed I am telling the truth because other than that it is out of my hands from here.

You haven't really (as far as I can see) explained why you felt the need to self vote. You say you don't want to play anymore and that one of us needs to be lynched, but I was significantly nearer to being lynched than you at the time, and if you are town I don't see why you wouldn't at least just hold out until I'm lynched and then replace out rather than purposely getting lynched just because you've had enough of the game, and then you just put your vote back at the drop of a hat which undermines everything you said anyway.

[Luca Blight]

It doesn't mean I'm confident you're lying, it means that from the perspective of everyone else (barring scum) no-one knows if we are telling the truth or not, so they are going to have to believe one over the other to achieve a lynch. With the self-vote, yes you explained, what I perhaps should have said is your explanation wasn't a valid one. With regards to your last point, are you saying everyone should believe you are town because self-voting wouldn't benefit your scumteam if you were mafia? Seeing as you are now trying to use that as a possible defence, I'd say that's reason enough.

[Luca Blight]

That's true AP, but do you really think a lynch on anyone else at this point is likely? We are two VT claims, meaning it is a low-risk scenario, and would both be informative lynches for day 1.

[Luca Blight]

That doesn't make sense to me.

I'm confident that you're scum, but there's no way it would even occur to me to present an argument which is that town have to believe one or the other of us, because I know I'm not scum, so the only options I'm even considering are you-scum or you-town.

You're contradicting yourself here, as you have said numerous times that one of us have to go (even in the quote below), meaning you obviously do share the same opinion.

Why was my explanation not valid then? The facts of Rogers (and others) tunnelling me for days on end are available in-thread. You and I have had the most discussed and speculated on wagons. One of us has to go because a flash wagon is going to net town no information.

Is this the first time that you're thinking this through seriously?

It's not valid because it doesn't make sense from a town perspective, and you then go and change your vote back at the drop of a hat which undermines it anyway, as I've already said.

[Luca Blight]

You think that town have to believe one or the other of us, which says that you think town need to believe one of us is most assuredly scum.

I think that you're scum, however there is no way that I would expect town to know either of our alignments, only scum.

How is that the same opinion?

We both seem to agree one of us needs to be lynched tonight, right? I don't know where you're getting this idea that town must know either of our alignments from, at the end of the day it boils down to which one they believe more, that's not to say either of us are necessarily lying.

Getting frustrated doesn't make sense for a town perspective? Do town not get frustrated?

Changing my vote back is not exactly at the drop of a hat when half a dozen people tell me I'm an idiot unless I change it back, and we're now not going to be flashwagonning.

Where were you for the first twelve days of Today?
Did your scumteam tell you it would be fine to lurk through Day 1 because they could paint scumhunting on lurkers as scummy in and of itself?

So you feel frustrated seemingly due to Rogers (who had been replaced out of the game anyway) and from no recent provocation you suddenly self-vote, even though I was significantly closer to being lynched at the time than you anyway? Using frustration as an excuse doesn't wash. I believe one person asked you to change it back and you did so immediately, of course others were going to be critical of it, what did you expect?

And no, the scumteam didn't tell me anything because I am not apart of it. If I was I'm sure they wouldn't have instructed me to play as I have been for most of this game.

[Luca Blight]

All I'm doing is responding to your questions, I'm not trying to present the matter as though I "thought you were scum all along". I don't see how you can ascertain from this little discussion that I "haven't previously thought about what's been going on from a town perspective".

You're accusing me of clumsily forming opinions, it seems to me you are making clumsy assumptions about the opinions I am apparently forming.

[Luca Blight]

I have been generally busy of late, though I don't expect you to believe that so it's a pointless question. I never said my lack of activity was a town tell, I merely commented that the manner in which I was posting was such that if I was another player, I wouldn't expect someone who plays in such a way on day 1 to flip scum. Obviously this is a moot point, WIFOM etc.

[Luca Blight]

I don't know, I cant see into the future.

Yes.

I'm not going to pretend I have read every post, because I haven't, but I have followed the thread loosely and have an idea of who I think might be leaning town/scum. It's 23:10 where I am and I need to get up at 5am for work, so I'm off to bed. I will post more Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

Deas, how can you be so sure Talah is Town? You two buddying up seems to have been a theme throughout this game.

In what way was I 'fairly scummy' in my exchange with Talah?

[Luca Blight]

TheAdmiral, what occurred within the space of five minutes to change your opinion from this:

I know it's an unpopular position on this site but I'd literally rather no-lynch than lynch someone I think is town.

to this:

fuck it I'd rather talah stay around than luca

vote: luca

? Also, if you've read Talah's posts, he has made it clear he doesn't intent to 'stay around' even if he isn't lynched as he has apparently had enough of this game.

[Luca Blight]

And what about that is scummy exactly?

[Luca Blight]

Why do you think I am more likely to be scum? Your reason for jumping on my wagon was weak to say the least.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Luca.

Have you got anything to add other than posting naked votes in the hope that something sticks?

I've been accused of lurking this game, but you're taking things to a new level.

[Luca Blight]

Ok.

[Luca Blight]

Talah needlessly self-voted, using Mister Rogers as an excuse (who had already replaced out) while claiming he still thought I was scum. He then changes his vote back as soon as someone asked him to, does that not seem both suspicious and counter-intuitive from a Town perspective?

I think AP has been reading Talah as scum for his general behaviour as opposed to that one comment.

[Luca Blight]

I don't see the similarity between Snork's vote on Thad (which seemed pretty valid) and Talah's self-vote.

[Luca Blight]

Scum still have to make the effort to form a coherent case. Sure, town have got the thought process of trying to figure out who's scum, but scum have to go through the process of thinking how every post they make is going to reflect on them. I don't buy your argument.

Playing the way Luca has is a very legitimate tactic as scum - just coasting through Day 1 while providing town with absolutely nothing. There are lots of players here who would have happily let him get away with it.

I don't think its conclusive evidence for him being town, its just a weird/unlikely argument for scum to make IMO.

Aptil and Bipolar and somewhat RM (although shes posted more things recently IIRC) have also coasted through the Day with limited contributions.

Unless you think Luca was doing it intentionally (we're back to this discussion apparently) which is POSSIBLE but who knows,

I find it more likely he was just apathetic about the game or busy which is also not a tell

.

Which was indeed the case. I felt a slight benefit of me playing in such a way is that my wagon became a very easy one for scum to jump on, and it's no coincidence the players I am townreading are those that do not automatically assume that such play = scum.

[Luca Blight]

^ It would be interesting to know what his reason for doing so was; did he prefer a lynch on me but feel Talah's wagon didn't have enough momentum?

I don't see it.

[Luca Blight]

I don't understand either of your points.

[Luca Blight]

Is there someone on the Talah wagon willing to switch over to Luca?

We still need a hammer.

There's still over a day until the deadline, have you completely given up on the idea that I could be town?

I'll tell you what, if there's no hammer in say the next 15 hours or so I'll hammer myself, how about that.

[Luca Blight]

Talah asked me a bunch of questions and I answered them, what's so alarming/odd about that?

[Luca Blight]

And you can't slate me for lurking when you're arguably the biggest lurker in this game.

[Luca Blight]

Wrong.

[Luca Blight]

And you can't slate me for lurking when you're arguably the biggest lurker in this game.

Am I? Wow, that sucks. At least I bothered enough to play the game instead of just walking the plank towards a day 1 lynch and suddenly realizing it was a bad idea.

No, you have just flown under the radar more than I have because I haven't been trying to make an effort to blend in the days I was busy, while you have been cautiously lurking all game.