Tales of You (Endgame)

[Nachomamma8]

I'm riding solo.
I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

[Nachomamma8]

I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

Before I get into the rest of the stuff, let me just point out this. Aside from my lack of paranoia on Nacho and assuring others that Nacho would be townreading me, there is literally nothing.
NOTHING.

In my posting.

That I can buy.
Even remotely.

A town Nacho not townreading. Those two things (which are arguably the same thing) are literally the only damn thing in my play that could possibly have pinged Nacho on me, at all. Yet this? This says otherwise. That he's either nulling me or deeply concerning (even scumreading) me. Which quite frankly, I don't buy. From BROseidon who (after this game) will have a Fate-reading-RECK card on me, sure, yeah, I can buy that type of misread. From Nacho?

Fuck no, I won't. That he doesn't have the townread is itself a red flag.

But even then. Let's assume. Just for a fraction of a second. That somehow. He thinks this could possibly. Even remotely. Be a scum me. Being willing to take that to a vote? Especially when I'm the lead wagon? Also not a town-Nacho behavior. ESPECIALLY with a lack of interaction before-hand! Nacho showing concern for me as town? Interacts with me. If he is sure I'm scum after that interaction, vote. Never a moment before.

But let's say that he did. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, there.
There's the fact that he says the last two pages of my spewing has given him doubt-on-scumread. Which is bullshit, since the last two pages of me has been quite frankly the most nulled content I've been posting in a long time. The towniest aspects in the posting are things that have existed not only for the entirety of P3 of my iso, not only the entirety of today, but ALSO of my play throughout the game. So the reason for not voting me isn't valid, either.

Lack of correct read. Lack of interaction. Lack of proper reasoning, of the right chain of thought.

That is not a town Nacho. The bit at the end is thrown in as essentially an after-thought. Something like that, asked earlier and throughout the game? Yeah, town-him. Right now? No.

Are you fucking kidding me? I've been having doubts on your slot because your posting hasn't been focused in on achieving a town-oriented goal: it's been a constant onslaught of posting that doesn't stop because you know that you need to keep up constant production to keep the game state the way it is as opposed to constantly working on forming reads, reworking the game, determining alignment. Hilariously enough, I thought that your unshakeable faith in us being town meant that you saw what I see in Bork's play, meaning that you understand how I function as a hydra partner when my partner is having a breakout game as scum (which, for the record, in this case happened when bork was getting pretty fucking bored of mafia in general as shown by siteflake midgame) and you know that if my partner's playing off the fucking chain that I don't completely abandon them and tell everyone I'm going to drink shots for every time that you're called town.

And this shit about "oh, if Nacho misreads me, he's scum" isn't natural and is an old tactic that's already been hashed out before: you understand me well enough and have seen my thought process well enough to understand that I have doubts. You're correct: if I laid in a vote on you when I wasn't engaged, hadn't interacted with you, that would be a scumclaim. I didn't. I expressed concern about you and made engaging with you my #1 priority (even though, let's be honest, I owe the neighborhood a hell of a lot more posting and footwork than I owe you), but you're reacting as harshly as you are right now because you know that a strong solid, scumread from me means that you're dead in the water.

[Nachomamma8]

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

Why did you flop onto Nacho despite them being confirmed-would-game-throw levels of town?

[Nachomamma8]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, I don't know if I should be insulted or complimented that peregrine of all people claimed my iso is awful in terms of scum hunting.

You should stop defecating and answer the questions.

[Nachomamma8]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

<.<
>.>

It's bullshit that happens more than it should.
There are certain players who have the right to pull it (hi notscience!), there are certain players who don't.

[Nachomamma8]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

Can you talk about your reads and what you learned from the day 1 deadline madness?

My significant pull from deadline madness was a cut off dick if wrong townreads on you, orc, JSU.
Currently, I only care about mastin.

[Nachomamma8]

I still don't think Rancid was scum.

[Nachomamma8]

But Mastin probably is.

[Nachomamma8]

Yes, I have.

[Nachomamma8]

I've been exercising extreme restraint for days now, thinking that I had a bias problem going on.

You do. Listen to your words. You've given up on the one damn thing.
ONE. DAMN. THING. Above all others!
That the ffery I know is best at. At bridging gaps. At mending rifts. Not tearing them wider. You're not trying to understand.

So if you're town. I have only one thing to say to you at this point:
What. the.

fuck

.

I don't know what you need. To take a breather. A step back from this game. Out of it entirely. Just mafia in general. A lecture. A rant. A diplomatic letter. I don't know you well enough to know how to push the right buttons to make you actually be playing mafia again. So bluntly, this will probably be offensive. I'm not going to tell you that you need to leave the game. But I have every right to demand something of you, if you are town.

Get your shit together

.
Or at least have the guts beyond muttering "I'm done" to admit that you haven't.

This is abrasive. To be frank, it's fully possible it'll tick you off even more and make things worse. But they're words that need to be said in some form or another. Someone else can say them less offensively, more diplomatically, more nice, in a more polite tone. But bluntly, you are not yourself. So if you are town. Give me my town-ffery back. Because this? What you're doing right now? Isn't her.

This is the worst of the series.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm really good at this game!

[Nachomamma8]

And this particular rant to ffery is bad considering angry-Mastin earlier in game. He considers himself a mediator, a diplomat... and when ffery's diplomat hat slips off a little bit, he gets offended why exactly?

[Nachomamma8]

you wish!

my initial thought was "this is a scum mastin post if i've ever seen one" and boom, it really really is

[Nachomamma8]

Alright Nacho, Bork left me with a weird taste in my mouth so I need something from you. Why is your mastin read is whatever it is right now? I kind of like this reaction; it sort of gels with what I'd expect given mastin's post, even if this is potentially just confirmation bias, but details please.

Confirmation bias? How do you figure that?

[Nachomamma8]

I could see that if I was still calling mastin town, but I'm not.

[Nachomamma8]

Ok, maybe this is why I want to see your progression mastin more transparently cause TBH I feel like the hydra was 90% Bork and I never caught any wind of him wanting to vote mastin.

Confirmation bias: using fairly innocuous quotes to fuel a conclusion you already have.
Are you concerned about the strength and switch of my trajectory on mastin? Because that's a different thing entirely and has nothing to do with confirmation bias.

Do you think mastin could have said that as town is what Im getitng at, I get the potential scum-motivation/scumminess behind it, but I can see it being from town, especially considering the level of derp mastin is determined to play at right now.

For me to buy that this is coming from mastin-town, I would have to buy that mastin, constantly and reanalyzing and reading posts and apparently playing at the top of his towngame goes from unshakeable town to scum on me when I imply he might possibly be scum (even though it was mentioned that I was considering him as scum earlier in the game but he somehow missed it) because he believes there is either a town!Nacho that reads him right or a scum!Nacho that reads him wrong, and his thinking wrt that is completely binary.

I don't think Mastin-town reads me in a way that 1) isn't exactly correct (I haven't a great track record reading him as of late, for one), and 2) is so simplistic and has so much scumvantage in it. Mastin knows me well as a player, and one of the greatest flaws in my towngame is when I'm feeling too much pressure to read a townie as town: I'm less liable to push them as scum even if I'm getting strange feels from the slot because I don't want to be wrong. He's trying to back me into that corner as we speak: he talks about how town-Nacho would try to work with him and figure out his alignment as opposed to put him closer to death as his head's on the chopping block and votes me because supposedly that isn't happening, but my vote isn't on him. His vote is on me. I'm still engaging him. He's going on rants about dreams he had last night.

Who here isn't willing to lynch me?

Be honest, think about that for a bit, and tell me. Is there so much as a single player here, alive, who isn't?

Do you think your scumbuddies would risk themselves to defend you at this point? I don't.

My constant posting isn't a scumtell; if anything, it's a towntell. Lurking isn't a scumtell for me, but it is still my overall preferred scum tactic, since I love to watch town fights develop.

No, this is bad.
Posting a lot is a towntell for players who are constantly nervous as scum, who are constantly hiding, who feel they have no power in manipulating anyone and who feel they have no sway in the overall tide. You aren't that type of player, and everyone knows you aren't that type of player. Do you really think that I'm going to buy that you posting a bunch is a towntell when we pretty much destroyed effort =/= town together a very very long time ago?

Bullfuckingshit you expressed concern and made interacting with me your number one priority. You've done shit. Absolute zero fucking shit. To actually communicate with me and work with me. Your mindset isn't doubting-but-hoping. Or figuring out. Or scumreading me, even. Your mindset is throwing a read out there, and hoping nobody calls you out on it. There is no pattern behind it. There is no hints. Nothing. Except that sudden read which goes against every fucking aspect of what I know a town-Nacho sees in me. Because the very damn things you're saying aren't there are THE VERY FUCKING THINGS THAT THE REST OF THE TOWN HAS NOTED AS BEING PRESENT AND SCUMREAD ME FOR.

I suppose all of this posting is not trying to figure you out.
I suppose all of this posting with me still not voting you and still not grinding your lynch into the ground is me not talking to you.
And I suppose making all of my posts about you and my scumread on you is hoping nobody calls me out for my read on you, hoping somehow that no one notices and no one cares.
You can keep repeating "Nacho isn't trying to figure me out, Nacho isn't trying to figure me out", but saying that in the face of ME FIGURING YOU OUT is obviously going to fall flat.

[Nachomamma8]

And to accusations of hiding?

UNIVERSAL ANNOUNCEMENT TO ALL PLAYERS OF THE TALES OF YOU UPICK GAME, UNIVERSAL ANNOUNCEMENT VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!

NACHO IS SCUMREADING MASTIN. HE THINKS SHE IS SCUM. HE WANTS HER TO DIE.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm fully aware that in a 1v1 against you, I'll lose.
But I'm going to make DAMN sure.
DAMN FUCKING SURE.

That you don't get away with it.

(if you were town and felt you were obvious town, you wouldn't feel this way. you would feel like you had just found scum-Nacho running out from his comfortable safety net from an obvtown position, and you would make it your singular goal to take me down and make yourself obvious town in everyone's eyes as a result.)

[Nachomamma8]

And entering into a 1v1 fight against Nacho? IS THE POLAR FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THAT.

You didn't plan to enter a 1v1 fight against me.
You were hoping to fake a paranoid attack on me, and you thought you could get away with it because you thought I would be lazy, you thought I was getting a little paranoid with the unshakeable townread where others had doubts, and you thought all you had to do in order to shake that paranoia was fake some yourself.
You were wrong. But you're in too deep to save yourself now, so now all you have to do is act like you wouldn't commit suicide like you're supposedly doing now and hope everyone somehow forgets that scum-Mastin on the ropes will do anything to save herself, just like scum Nacho would.

[Nachomamma8]

Yes? Mastin has been pretty egotistical this game. I think half the reason shes scumreading me is because she cant admit to herself that Im being 100% honest about finding her play atrocious (and here Rg is supposed to be the atrocious pokemon) so shes just somehow convinced herself I must be scum in order to feel better about herself. I really do think that is a thing that is happening. Mastin will deny it, but thats part of the whole denial approach she seems to be stuck in this game.

Has there ever been a game where mastin, as engaged town, has really been so lost in herself while simultaneously attempting to keep everyone else's egos in check? I have trouble imagining her not making ego checks every once in a while when she says things like what she said to BRO earlier.

[Nachomamma8]

THESE TWO THOUGHTS ARE.
HAVE BEEN.
AND ALWAYS WILL BE.
MUTUALLY. FUCKING. EXCLUSIVE.

He was town, you are scum.
Guess it's not mutually exclusive!

ffery threw her diplomat hat on the ground, and stomped on it. Repeatedly.

How so?

As scum, there is a detachment from the argument. I might curse, I might shout, but there is an agenda to my words.
WHAT IS THE AGENDA.
WHAT IS THE PLAN.

You want ffery to run interference between the CF-JSU crowd and you, since she's acted as mediator earlier in the game for a pretty long time. She starts to turn against you, you start to turn against her.
You know, like what happened with me?

AP's post about the wall was horrible, though.

Your wall was worse.

[Nachomamma8]

Has there ever been a game where mastin, as engaged town, has really been so lost in herself while simultaneously attempting to keep everyone else's egos in check? I have trouble imagining her not making ego checks every once in a while when she says things like what she said to BRO earlier.

Are you referring to the post where she told BRO never to play with her again if he was town? I just remembered that; that post left a bad taste in my mouth at the time.

Yep.
Why would mastin-town be make that post? Initially, I thought it was because mastin was frustrated with the gamestate and pretty much snapped, but I don't really think that makes a whole lot of sense at this point.

[Nachomamma8]

And I hate how she talks about her emotions instead of shows them.

[Nachomamma8]

Is that scummy though? Ranting about peripheral nonsense in the thread isn't exactly a scumtell and I really really -can- see Mastin thinking this way as town. I'll give you that yes it CAN be scum motivated, but I dont think there is any reason to assume that is the case or the only case. What recent things make you think this is just blatant bulllshit from mastin?

When he goes "Nacho isn't sorting me, my #1 priority is to sort mastin", then doesn't sort or engage me and goes on a dream rant, yes, it's scummy. I don't think town-Mastin procrastinates in digging into me when he has a goal and he has a need. I think scum-Mastin procrastinates, produces bullshit in the meantime, and then goes for it.

What's also wonderful is that Mastin's apparently gotten that the case I've provided on him is that he's spamming + repeating the same thing over and over again. Do you think that's my case on him?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, why did you roleblock me last night?

If I were scum, I would have roleblocked you for obvious reasons.

[Nachomamma8]

"I don't really trust anyone" *next line* "I'm basically trusting you".

Why do you think that's scummy?

And again. Really, really. Don't think. AP would ever truly consider. An actual policy-lynch.

Why not?

And his posting really doesn't seem to be reflecting these as his scumreads.

Again, why not?

Thus, why focusing on what was obviously a typo was...
...Nothing but a distraction.

The distraction would be nothing but a waste of time for scumAP: why would he pursue it?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

Really?

[Nachomamma8]

Yes, but still a scum pool all the same. My posting is more akin to how I'd expect a town-you to be handling a scumlist with those names.

[Mastin is strawmanning.]

I fail to see how. You had a POE list, used akin to a scum list. I had a similarly-formatted list, yet my handling of it was completely and entirely different.

The way that you treat a player when you have a scum read on them is completely different to how you treat a player when they are on the bottom of a POE list. When a player is your top suspect, you pursue them with a single minded aggression that never stops until something drastic happens: you case doubt on every claim they make, you give people town points for voting them. POE lists are a different environment entirely and their lunches are normally pushed by directing away from other, worse lynches.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho I'd like to talk to you about Tammy.

Really?

You've probably gotten there. The basis of her read on me. Does it make sense to you that town-Tammy would form a read this way?

Usually when someone fabricates a town read on me it's close to this form. But in this case it's zeroed in, not floaty.

I went on a perusing journey of Tammy's ISO and got lost in that really town looking exchange with PV. Could you quote what you're thinking of because if I read it I totally forgot it

[Nachomamma8]

So what of those 6 Poe scumreads (Cupcake, Yggdra, Kagura, PV, F-16, Red Gary) doesn't make sense?

Again not the point; my point isn't that the names make no sense at all, but rather, how you've handled them overall simply doesn't seem right. I wish the proper words were there to explain that. Though that said? If you want to get into reads that don't make sense in general...Cupcake you can say is anti-town, but you can't say is scum. Yggdra is arguably the same. F-16 as a scumread makes basically zero sense, either. The only three names there that even remotely are plausible are Nacho, PV, and Red Gyarados.

As in he hasn't pushed them like scum reads, right, you pushed that point. He hasn't been pushing them like scum reads because they are POE reads, which are different from scum reads.

Cupcake you can call scum. You'd be wrong, but you can certainly call him scum and not be scum for it. Yggdra is not a read like that at all and is a reasonable (but also bad) scumread if you haven't seen the neighborhood. Carbon was an on and off scum read of your lord Rancid so I'm not quite sure why you think AP couldn't interpret his posting as scummy.

[Nachomamma8]

You have been arguing that you DONT scumread me as scum which is a lie.

Okay, better wording. I don't lie about my read. If I say I scumread you, I actually have somehow legitimately scumread you. Otherwise, I'm forced into a townread as scum.

And you don't treat reads on me the same way?

[Nachomamma8]

That does seem like the way Tammy would form a read on you.

[Nachomamma8]

I agree

[Nachomamma8]

I need to read through Clyton. I remember a post where he asked to be tossed into the ring but I legitimately can't remember another thing about him because his posting is so boring.

Almost as boring as Brian's. Why do you spoiler your posts again?

[Nachomamma8]

I need to read through Clyton. I remember a post where he asked to be tossed into the ring but I legitimately can't remember another thing about him because his posting is so boring.

Almost as boring as Brian's. Why do you spoiler your posts again?

Why don't you like Brian-posts? I thoughts they were cool.

They are kinda cool, yeah. Just boring

[Nachomamma8]

im proud as fuck at this game

So am I! Thoughts about that game cheer me up whenever I am starting to get a little annoyed at this one.

This is what I agreed with.

[Nachomamma8]

Town.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho am I town, scum, or fptslbooa?

Scum. Unless you die soon!

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho am I town, scum, or fptslbooa?

Scum. Unless you die soon!

If I shove you really hard will your team NK me?

Also, why was I blocked?

Your target was me but it failed.
Seemed like you weren't blocked to me!

[Nachomamma8]

TAMMY
I'M DOING OTHER THINGS RIGHT NOW BUT MY NAME IS NACHO AND I THINK YOU'RE FABULOUS
I ALSO THINK THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO TALK TO MARA IF YOU DON'T WANT TO
AND I DON'T THINK MARA WILL TALK TO YOU
AND I WOULD RATHER HAVE YOU HERE THAN NOT HAVE YOU HERE

[Nachomamma8]

think of the children, tammy

[Nachomamma8]

f-16. take a break from a robot and beg tammy to return w/me please

[Nachomamma8]

tammy, we legitimately asked the moderator to reject your replacement request

i don't need you i don't need you i don't need you

[Nachomamma8]

but we waaaaaant you

[Nachomamma8]

oh fuck i'm turning into my mother
whenever i got mad at her, she would say "no fighting no fighting" from hips don't lie and i almost just did that ;.;

[Nachomamma8]

gif can you draw a picture of sol badguy hugging an airplane with the caption "we miss tam tam"? please?

[Nachomamma8]

awww, that's better

[Nachomamma8]

When Rancid-deadtown is a MASSIVE tactical advantage to this hypothetical scum-me, and a MASSIVE inconvenience to a hypothetical scum-me?

I agree you didn't kill him. I can see your team janitoring the flip if someone shot him since Rancid-scum's a massive inconvenience to you, and having the confidence that you can janitor the first one of you two's flip means that you're not afraid to buddy to shit like you did D1. But you're correct, you didn't kill him.

In contrast to me, who has at times been voted by literally every fucking player alive. No, seriously. Name a single player alive who at a point in the game has not voted me. I can't think of any.

I'm pretty sure our slot hasn't voted you and continues not to vote you.
But hey I could totally be wrong about that!

YOU ARE USING THINGS THAT I DID AFTER YOUR CHANGED READ TO JUSTIFY YOUR ORIGINAL CHANGE IN READ.

My current read on you is pretty much composed of your reaction to me scumreading you, how uncomfortable you are with me pushing you. My read before that? It wasn't strong. Townread started dying when everyone else seemed more town, and when you stopped hitting the notes you were hitting D1.

It might have been mentioned before that, too, and I brushed it off, since again, it wasn't from the source. It was essentially a second-hand talker, a talker who I knew would have biases, would have hesitancy in using exact wording from the QT, and thus, as a result, would not be conveying the accurate info. Or so I thought.

But you never thought to follow up on it? You brushed it off because you didn't think it was completely accurate because F-16 would lie about my suspicions in thread and I wouldn't publicly call him out and correct him for it? That doesn't seem like a very town-Nacho thing to do: in fact, that sounds like vintage scum Nacho!

BEYOND THAT. There's your stance on me. Your stance on me couldn't have been a scumread, because you fucking derailed the lynch on me, onto others. That's not something you do for someone who's so much as null; it has to be at least a townread. And then! Then there's the real kicker. Your neighbors have talked about your reads disagreeal with them. Overnight. They said that you were basically fighting their reads. Not coming to a consensus. You were the odd man out, of the neighborhood.

I did. I completely went to bat for you and alienated myself ENTIRELY from the neighborhood. Bork has built up a hell of a lot of towncred between them (aka no one even entertained the possibility of us being scum), and I burned it the fuck to the ground because there was no way in hell that I was going to let you get mislynched. I burned that cred during the day when I told BRO he was being an idiot and tried to flashwagon him, and I burned that cred to the ground when I continued arguing overnight (against bork's wishes) that you were town. You were a strong, strong townread and my play reflected that entirely. And now suddenly, I'm supposedly breaking cover against you and alienating myself from you after already burning my towncred from the neighborhood to the ground because apparently I hate having friends as scum. If I were scum in this situation, I would have protected you to the end: if you die, neighborhood's rep is shot and I'm ripping that town block apart with my bare hands. If you survive, I have you in my pocket for the long haul and one diehard calling me town is worth much more than 5 players calling me maybe town. I understand I've used this argument a lot in the past to great effect so it won't ring too true with too many people (or shouldn't, anyways), but your current requirements of me being scum are that I've completely lost my mind and know legitimately the only way to get myself lynched when I'm riding high on the highs of towncred banks. If you really were reanalyzing like you say you are (and all you've done is say you were and switch around a couple of reads: as town you show you're reanalyzing and prove it), you'd be able to see that obvious, obvious fact at least. But it's not convenient for you to bring up as scum, so you just happily ignore all motive for me changing my reads the way that I did as scum and instead cry "look, a contradiction!".

Yes you have. You've correctly read me in every damn game we've had, recently. Last time I can remember you being wrong? Was Mindreader Mafia. A fucking year ago. When I was specifically manipulating you through your role. That's literally it. Every game since then. From Walking Dead to Xeno. You've had me correctly read. Your read on me isn't instantaneously correct, like AP's and zMuffinman's are. But they ARE correct, eventually.

Chain of command.
Unless you forgot?

Rambles, thankyouverymuch, and they accomplished a very specific thing. They let you know exactly where my mind has come from, and also contained a readchange in the form of PV. Furthermore, I HAVE reached out, to just about everyone.

I haven't seen you reaching out to everyone.
I can see gigantic alienations in the form of your treatment of BRO's anxiety attack (aka are you fucking kidding me? That niggled like shit once BRO pointed it out, but I pushed that aside in favor of a larger townread), and your latest rant to ffery about tossing her diplomat hat down. I see a reachout in the form of you waffling on AP, but those aren't the kind of reachouts that I like. What else were you referring to?

...Well, I've never been this active at all. Last time I got even close?

I'm glad you found your scum stride again.
No scum game can flourish without the ability to post, and post a lot. I'm not so naive as to think that you don't know how to sit yourself down and post as scum, and I'm sure as hell not so naive as to think that you really think that you think posting a lot is a persuasive argument for you being anything other than slightly more likely to be town. I don't know why you would post so much this game. I don't know where you get your motivation, I don't care where you get your motivation.

This isn't your town game. I know that, whether you make 5 more posts or 500.

[Nachomamma8]

I said it way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in GvE, CvL, that

I couldn't win the fight against you with you-as-scum and me-as-town.

It's still just as true now as it was back then. I am not as charismatic. This is not a fight I enter with any chance at all of winning. Obvtown be damned! Yes, I'm fucking obviously town. Anyone reading my goddamned posting without confirmation bias, without emotional attachment, and putting so much as an iota of effort into reading my fucking mindset would be able to figure that out. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. Yes, I should. No, I won't.

This was bullshit then, and this is bullshit now. The longstanding conditions that surround most of my interactions with players that I can read go as follows: they won't win against me when I am town and they are scum. I won't win against them as scum if I break cover on them. I only break cover when I'm absolutely 100% sure that I'm going to get that mislynch and I'm 100% if I fail that we will win if we fall anyways. Ask fucking notscience when he comes back: in Wicked, I broke cover when the game was won. I called mollie when we reached that LyLo to tell her the game was won because I knew there was legitimately no way we could lose. Did I break cover before then? Nope, called him town LEGITIMATELY THE ENTIRE GAME LIKE A GOOD SCUM. I played around him because 1v1 exchanges are horrible for scum early game. You are not as charismatic as I am. But you know the feeling of being stabbed in the back and you express that shit as well as anyone else but you're damn right when I'm stabbed in the back and I know I'm being stabbed in the back there's no fucking way I'm going to lose.

[Nachomamma8]

Because while I don't know what exactly sparked the reveal, something did. And I'm willing to bet it's that I hit something that the scumteam desperately was hoping I wouldn't hit on.

You sound like DGB.
If you hit the scumteam perfectly minus me, do you know what I would do? I would shut the fuck up and bus a buddy, then I would kill you during the night. Or, I would shut the fuck up and let you get mislynched because that's exactly where the day was going. The "oh i bet I said something REALLY on point and you panicked" is so far gone from everything that you ever learned about me, and I really wish that someone that wasn't me could see that.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho- Good morning!! Actually reading and responding to Mastin? You are a better man than I for that.

give me a moment. i will give a full list of general reads (a catchup post even!), once i'm done catching up.
but i need to do this for right now.

[Nachomamma8]

Anyone reading my goddamned posting without confirmation bias, without emotional attachment, and putting so much as an iota of effort into reading my fucking mindset would be able to figure that out. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. Yes, I should. No, I won't.

Hey Tammy!
Could you ask SAD if he thinks mastin is town?

[Nachomamma8]

A scum-me would never even so much as attempt to risk it. A scuMastin if faced with a Nacho scumread? Will do everything in her power to switch that around. Plead. Beg. Reason. Misdirect. Use logic. Try to shake it. Push it elsewhere. NAME A SINGLE FUCKING SCUMGAME OF MINE WHERE I DIDN'T DO THIS. Can't? There's a goddamned reason for that; it's because that's how I act as scum and you damn-well KNOW it is

Do you want me to quote pleading, begging, reason, logic for you trying to get out of this read? Just because you haven't dropped the scumread on me doesn't mean you're not flailing all over the fucking place: do you think you can suddenly switch back and try buddying me now that I'm as against you as I currently am? No. Fuck no.

[Nachomamma8]

THE EGO CHECKS.
ARE RIGHT FUCKING THERE.
IN MY FUCKING POSTING.

Where?
Could there be an ego check... here?

My scumgame this year (for the most part) has been top-notch. I've masterfully manipulated players. I've had plans. I've beautifully orchestrated the downfalls of towns, in ways that they would never expect, even if they expect me to be scum. It may sound arrogant, but bluntly, I've felt as if my scumgame has taken such leaps and bounds this year to be frankly at scummy-level performances. Because I come up with plans, dang-good plans, and execute them near-flawlessly. And they are all driven by the singular desire of manipulating circumstances to be favorable for my scum faction.

...nope.

[Nachomamma8]

But when up against Nacho's bullshit, well. I'm kinda losing my shit. Because everything he's saying is flat, hollow, faked, looking good and making sense on the surface, but which, well, I know to be bullshit. Not the best way to describe it, but best wording I can think of.

Ironically, this post screams bullshit.
Ironically, every post of yours screams bullshit, I'm losing my shit in a game for a very, very long time and you know exactly why.

[Nachomamma8]

And it should be obviously bullshit because you're telling me my push on you makes sense and looks good, but is flat and hollow and that's why it pisses you off? You're pissing me off because everything that comes out of your mouth is bullshit and because I have this sense of feeling like shit for shutting down the wagon on you in the first place and because there are legitimately several times in this game where I've thought "mastin scum wouldn't play this fucking low, he has more self respect than that".

[Nachomamma8]

*points to her post*
She flat-out said she was done interacting with me. At all. Refusing to. Rejecting my points. Not listening to me. You can't get more spit-in-the-face-of-diplomacy than that.

You see small points that ffery is getting bothered with how you're approaching her.
You push deeper.
You see obvious points of ffery getting bothered with how you're approaching her.
You push deeper.
Diplomacy hat falters.
You accuse her of putting her middle finger up to the "spirit of diplomacy".

I know I'm not the only person who sees a massive fucking problem with that.

[Nachomamma8]

Because F-16 is talking to me without her, and DesBRO wasn't townreading her at the time, meaning that'd be useless. I gain nothing from doing it as scum.

yep i'm sure ffery has no sway with anyone bc people aren't townreading her
and i'm sure you're gonna convince falcon you're town on your own

[Nachomamma8]

Where's me turning against DesBRO, F-16, Titan, or such? I don't "turn against" players scumreading me for the act of scumreading me. (Okay, I do...as scum. Not as town.) I "turn against" players who I had been thinking were town, that show something highly-uncharacteristic of what I was expecting of their towngame. Which most commonly, admittedly, manifests in suspecting me, but it's never the act of suspicion itself. It's how the suspicion is handled.

You don't turn against everyone who scumreads you for scumreading you because that's blatantly obvious, but hell yeah you do it when it makes sense to. You can't turn against Titan because Titan will fucking bury you. You can't turn against F-16 because F-16 will fucking bury you. You can't turn against DesBro because they will fucking bury you.

[Nachomamma8]

You can't hear the pounding. You can't feel the sweat on my hands, as I rest them on my laptop and feel them burning, not from the heat in the atmosphere, but from the rage on here. You can't see it. BUT YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN SEE THEM ALL THE SAME.

Every so often, I will read your post and then go out into the kitchen and stress-eat.
I ate half a dozen no bake cookies so far and now switched to some nasty shit my girlfriend's roommate so that she can enjoy the cookies that she made in the morning. My heart is beating out of my fucking chest even though it's 7 in the morning and we're supposed to go grocery shopping at 2, and I'd love to sleep but I can't. What am I doing now, mastin?

I'm describing my emotions, I'm not showing them.
This is exactly what I did in Wicked to manipulate Mina.
This is exactly what you're doing to me now.

And it frustrates me as much as it does because I know people are going to read your posts as town because they're relatable and real now that you've described them so vividly. And it frustrates me because every post you make drags you down further and reduces any chance you had of being town to nothing.

[Nachomamma8]

Fair point about me not focusing more on you. I got distracted.

It's funny. Because that point about you not focusing on me was linked with my point about you not reacting as if scum-Nacho just reared its ugly face to you.
And you seem to find this point reasonable, but you don't find the other point reasonable. Why?

[Nachomamma8]

Look at what my posting has been ever since you've come in. Exactly what you're saying, it's been fucking digging into you with a clear goal in mind.

Digging into me?
Who the fuck is on offense here? I am.
Where have you dug into me?
"Nacho, you're confbiased in your read on me!"
"Nacho, your posts feel like bullshit because I know they're bullshit and also they're flat".
THIS is digging. The weak shit I'm tearing through currently is not.

[Nachomamma8]

If this were to be an accurate summary, then it's absolutely bullshit, since there's one thing.

"If this were an accurate summary"? I'm sorry, have you not been reading my posts?
Are you not qualified to judge whether something is an accurate summary or not? Do you think it's an accurate summary?

[Nachomamma8]

why I thought it was scummy should be painfully fucking obvious, because it showed to me an inconsistency in thought pattern that wasn't something I saw coming from town.

Because when town feel particularly paranoid and recognize they're feeling particularly paranoid they don't look for a rock to tether them back to the gamestate? Because normal people feel completely comfortable having legitimately nothing to hold onto?

[Nachomamma8]

I can list a myriad of different reasons why AP would pursue it.

Feel free to list them.

No, I'm scumreading you because you're scum.
/actual circlejerk.

It also amazes me you can sneak these little things in during emotionally-charged posting.

[Nachomamma8]

And after I flip town, reading his posting about me knowing his history with me, what then?

If you flipped town after all of this, I'm not really sure how I'd feel.

[Nachomamma8]

But that? Is increasingly hard to maintain. When literally every fucking button that can be pressed about me. Is being pressed. Nacho's raised quite a few of mine, in fact, and I'm actually surprised that my posting is even remotely at the level of civility it's at right now because of it. (I'm attributing it slightly to my exhaustion, given that it's already 3 am, I started working on this game at...what, 1:30?...and am still not even close to being done.)

Talking about emotions, and not showing them.
You're right, you wouldn't be this civil if you were town. You'd be typing while completely fucking lost, and you'd hate yourself when you're typing but you know you have to get this all out on the page because it would just boil inside of you otherwise. There's no way in hell you could distance yourself so completely from the emotions if you were town like you're doing now. Exhaustion that great would knock you the fuck out, not make you reserved and cordial.

[Nachomamma8]

gotta go to sleep, sorry, will catch up tomorrow

[Nachomamma8]

COME FUCK WIGTH ME MASTIN

[Nachomamma8]

if anyone calls me scum with mastin thety're a douche because i care too much about her lynch

[Nachomamma8]

fuck canada

[Nachomamma8]

you don't feel as sold on mastin scum as i am and that doesn't make me happy

[Nachomamma8]

9i could be, but i'm fucking plastered

[Nachomamma8]

nacho/Mastinssk/Pigey/Carbonfiber

scumteam 2014

if thdis is mara then i'm fucking disappointed
if this is orc then ok cool

[Nachomamma8]

and i'm disappointed regardless of your alignment because you'd know to fake better reads than that
i'm going to dance on mastin's grave when she gets lynched and if you're terying to fuck with me when i'm in that mode then you're going to get buried like everyone else who has ever tried

[Nachomamma8]

On a more serious note, I'm not as weirded out by Claytons list as much as orci is, and I kinda wanna kil CF

Pedit: Orci doesn't call AP "pigey" you took that list seriously?

yes i took that list seriously

[Nachomamma8]

it makes a hell of a lot more sense as a joke though <3
ut seriously don't kill CF
and ignore orc's reads because they probably suck

[Nachomamma8]

MAra!

[Nachomamma8]

i can't wait until AP and i hydea and this is all of our posts

[Nachomamma8]

PIDGEON
GET DRUNK WITH ME AND LET'S TALK GAME

[Nachomamma8]

are you talking to me?

???

[Nachomamma8]

I'm drunk

you are my soulmate

[Nachomamma8]

today it was a 21st birthday party so we drank wine and jaeger shots and i came back home to finish a fifth of honey jack to go back out and drink again!
and of course, because i'm addicted to mafia, i came back int o see mastin's response to my posts

[Nachomamma8]

tammy they're a bunch of assholes they don't matter

[Nachomamma8]

I can't get a single post in

I'm not exactly caught up, but I did catch that you did have mastin town enough to want to defend her. What did she do to completely flip that read around?

i'm really too drunk to nvigate a sea of bullshit right now
but she stabbed me in the fucking back

[Nachomamma8]

I was going to vote mastin, but I suddenly skimmed the last two pages (although don't plan on reading much of it until later) and happened upon things that pretty much trashed my resolve.

Although: Mastin, is there any other game where you were simply "too mean" to be scum?

Before I get into the rest of the stuff, let me just point out this. Aside from my lack of paranoia on Nacho and assuring others that Nacho would be townreading me, there is literally nothing.
NOTHING.

In my posting.

That I can buy.
Even remotely.

A town Nacho not townreading. Those two things (which are arguably the same thing) are literally the only damn thing in my play that could possibly have pinged Nacho on me, at all. Yet this? This says otherwise. That he's either nulling me or deeply concerning (even scumreading) me. Which quite frankly, I don't buy. From BROseidon who (after this game) will have a Fate-reading-RECK card on me, sure, yeah, I can buy that type of misread. From Nacho?

Fuck no, I won't. That he doesn't have the townread is itself a red flag.

But even then. Let's assume. Just for a fraction of a second. That somehow. He thinks this could possibly. Even remotely. Be a scum me. Being willing to take that to a vote? Especially when I'm the lead wagon? Also not a town-Nacho behavior. ESPECIALLY with a lack of interaction before-hand! Nacho showing concern for me as town? Interacts with me. If he is sure I'm scum after that interaction, vote. Never a moment before.

But let's say that he did. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, there.
There's the fact that he says the last two pages of my spewing has given him doubt-on-scumread. Which is bullshit, since the last two pages of me has been quite frankly the most nulled content I've been posting in a long time. The towniest aspects in the posting are things that have existed not only for the entirety of P3 of my iso, not only the entirety of today, but ALSO of my play throughout the game. So the reason for not voting me isn't valid, either.

Lack of correct read. Lack of interaction. Lack of proper reasoning, of the right chain of thought.

That is not a town Nacho. The bit at the end is thrown in as essentially an after-thought. Something like that, asked earlier and throughout the game? Yeah, town-him. Right now? No.

o saw this post and my thoughts were {fucl you, mastin"

[Nachomamma8]

my read changed after an overnight reading session, though i had a strong mastin town read in the neighborhood overnight, got shit on because they hated said read so much, and i thought one really goo point tthat was brought up was how mastin responded to bro anxiety attack

[Nachomamma8]

because bro broke the fuck down in thread and mastin didn't even take a break from calling him shit to go "hey bro, are you okay?". he didn't even take a moment to reflect, to hesitate, to whatever he just brushed it the fuck aside and kept moving on

[Nachomamma8]

which, don't get me wrong, i'm a paranoid guy and i understand a little bit of paranoia about but mastin completey rejected it. i know he is not a complete and total fucking asshole, i know he would see something like that happening and would take a break from the game, make sure bro was okay. but as scum? he quells those emotions because they go against his win condition. i do the same thing. i mislynch people, i see the hurt in the words they're typing and i feel fucking horrible about it but i keep going because i know i need to for my win condition

[Nachomamma8]

and i tried to brush it aside because mastin's in an emotional state of her own and i know it's hard from her, but it still doesn't make any sensse. it still doesn't click with what i know of mastin.

we share a lot of qualities between us, and we're both careful of people's eotions as town bdcause we get shit on, we get stomped on, but we take it because we're us, we're diplomats, and it's our fucking job to take it

[Nachomamma8]

but him being completely fucking cold hearted and just letting bro drown?
fuck no. never.

[Nachomamma8]

i also thinkt aht the exchange with me that no one will read is complete and utter bullshit, and i know i get irrational when i get passionate about things, but i know i'm not wrong about her. i know i'm not.

[Nachomamma8]

i KNOW i'm not.

[Nachomamma8]

tammy, i understand being worried but that's not what mastin was.
he disregarded it fucking compeltely.

[Nachomamma8]

i know I was worried at first.
i know i was really worried. i thought "if bro's really faking this, he's a massive asshole and seriously fuck that guy" because it's such a betrayal of trust to pretend like you're in actual danger for a win in a fucking game, you know?

[Nachomamma8]

and ultimately i thought "if i'm wrong and bro is a shithead, he gets one win. i'm not competitive enough to let someone go without help for the sake of one win". and mastin goes "well, if he's telling the truth, he's still wrong" and when i read that i got shivers down my spine because it was so cruel, so neglecting of everything bro was going through

[Nachomamma8]

and i'm not mad at her for faking it, i hope i'd be able to do something similar. but i know that the move she took there was irrational and the only way she would do something like that was for a sake of a win condition because she had faith we'd be able to take bro through it.

[Nachomamma8]

that was real. I felt terrible.

I felt, i feel fucking horrible for having a part in that.

[Nachomamma8]

normally mafia doesn't leak into my day, my day leaks into mafia but i felt legitimately horrible for that.
and i wondered should i PM him, how do i reach out, etc.
because bro is one of those people who talks about his crazy abroad stories, who's crazy confident, who goes to dartmouth and is generally the shit and he seems unbreakable and i felt like i broke him and i know mastin felt the same way. i know she did, she had to. everyone did.

[Nachomamma8]

and ultimately i thought "if i'm wrong and bro is a shithead, he gets one win. i'm not competitive enough to let someone go without help for the sake of one win". and mastin goes "well, if he's telling the truth, he's still wrong" and when i read that i got shivers down my spine because it was so cruel, so neglecting of everything bro was going through

When you post like this, I feel like you are near trust-tell level town.

But why this long to bring it up?

I feel bad bringing it up, I guess.
It doesn't seem fair in a mafia game to say that someone would have to either be a cold heartless fuck or be scum setting aside their emotions, but I really feel that's the case.

[Nachomamma8]

So then what is your take on des's how dare I feel any suspicion towards your neighborhood whatsoever if mastin flips town nonsense that falcon relayed?

do you really think it's scummy to get incredibly defensive over reads on strong townreads?

[Nachomamma8]

i mean, empire did that and he was in the scum neighborhood of the century. but he wasn't scum, and that was because he cared as much as he did over defending them.

[Nachomamma8]

des is talking about townreads in the neighborhood
and i agree his "I'm being too obvtown" shit blows!

[Nachomamma8]

in too many heads, he thought i was being too town and LOOK WHO GOT FucKING QUICKHAMMERED BY TOWN

[Nachomamma8]

ap i have to go soon or i'll blackout befor ei hang out with the homies

[Nachomamma8]

tammy i know why you're bothered!

[Nachomamma8]

found what you guys are talking about, and holy shit

DV did something similar too, though

but i don't think DV is as emotional of a player as mastin is, or i am

[Nachomamma8]

like, nowhere close. and i don't expect him to be as intune with that sort of thing.

[Nachomamma8]

i guess i make sense when i'm plastered?
news to me!

[Nachomamma8]

i promise we will have our moment, pidgeon.
i still think we should make the hydra where we take a shot every time we get voted because i feel that would be an amazing hydra.

[Nachomamma8]

i love her because she's so fucking in tune with emotions

[Nachomamma8]

i fucking worship her because she's so in tune with emotions

[Nachomamma8]

and i love that about her. it's adorable. but in this situation, she saw this situation occuring and she's like "NOPE DON'T SEE SHIT"

i'm watching the wire now, and it's like witnesses who completely change their story after the gang comes after them and they get threatened. you know they're lying because you know they saw it happen, but they pretend they're seeing a completely different reality

[Nachomamma8]

okay, tomorrow.
i'm going to listen to proper drunk songs and sing karaoke as i walk to the frat

[Nachomamma8]

but ap let's start oiur hydra in this game, okay?

[Nachomamma8]

no i'm seriously in a frat
i don't think anyone else in mafiascum is in a frat sooooo

[Nachomamma8]

FALCON GET YOUR ASS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TOPIC NOW

[Nachomamma8]

F-16 please get into the neighborhood, thanks in advance.

[Nachomamma8]

STOP INTERACTING YOU TWO

[Nachomamma8]

Wow you sound suspiciously like F-16!

[Nachomamma8]

I KNEW YOU WERE SCUM AND I WAS TELLING EVERYONE IN THGE NEUIGHTBORHOOS ABOYUT UT

I told Nacho he was scum with yo.

You're right to read Tammy card is in the shredder.

So is your right to read F-16 card.

[Nachomamma8]

TAMMY: In the neighborhood last night, it was Desperado who was paranoid of you. F-16 had doubts in small bursts, but reread to reassure himself. That doesn't seem like he's "posturing against you", and I have no idea why he would posture against you in the first place as scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I KNEW YOU WERE SCUM AND I WAS TELLING EVERYONE IN THGE NEUIGHTBORHOOS ABOYUT UT

I told Nacho he was scum with yo.

This is fucking bullshit by the way.

And I do believe you'd set me up. I watched what you did to Mina in wicked. a REMEMBER?

You also watched him experiencing a ton of trepidation and me being like "it's okay, she's not actually that town"? Why do you think all of his meta cases landed on him not being sure about her alignment?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, you got some reads?

Nope. I'm approaching today much more cautiously.

[Nachomamma8]

Although I would really like you to help me sort magenta.

[Nachomamma8]

He said maybe we were scum together and we were going to blow our cover and mislynch him today

[Nachomamma8]

And then you voted him

[Nachomamma8]

And then he freaked the fuck out

[Nachomamma8]

Although I would really like you to help me sort magenta.

magenta got a lot more difficult for me to read with mara joining. But, I was still feeling pretty confident orcinus has been town overnight.

What does your scum team look like?

[Nachomamma8]

Also, F-16, respond to VisCon point in neighborhood.

[Nachomamma8]

Wow you sound suspiciously like F-16!

I'm gonna leave this here.

[Nachomamma8]

I KNEW YOU WERE SCUM AND I WAS TELLING EVERYONE IN THGE NEUIGHTBORHOOS ABOYUT UT

I told Nacho he was scum with yo.

You're right to read Tammy card is in the shredder.

So is your right to read F-16 card.

And this!

[Nachomamma8]

TAMMY: In the neighborhood last night, it was Desperado who was paranoid of you. F-16 had doubts in small bursts, but reread to reassure himself. That doesn't seem like he's "posturing against you", and I have no idea why he would posture against you in the first place as scum.

And this.

[Nachomamma8]

I KNEW YOU WERE SCUM AND I WAS TELLING EVERYONE IN THGE NEUIGHTBORHOOS ABOYUT UT

I told Nacho he was scum with yo.

This is fucking bullshit by the way.

And I do believe you'd set me up. I watched what you did to Mina in wicked. a REMEMBER?

You also watched him experiencing a ton of trepidation and me being like "it's okay, she's not actually that town"? Why do you think all of his meta cases landed on him not being sure about her alignment?

And this!

[Nachomamma8]

I can't imagine how happy zMuffin and Nati are to see this. I feel so sorry and feel like crap for pushing them.

I can't imagine they're actually happy to see the town driving themselves into a hole because people are making irrational pushes. I'm sure pie's pissed that you're making an irrational push on Tammy and Tammy's making an irrational push on you. I'm sure Mastin isn't happy that you're repeating old mistakes. I'm sure even LORD BUSINESS doesn't want to see this happening for the third day in a row.

[Nachomamma8]

Logically, why would F-16 fake this? Why do you think he's faking this?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm also happy to see everyone's quiet again because that means people are thinking it out and have stopped being paranoid and I can finally use the bathroom.

[Nachomamma8]

Although I would really like you to help me sort magenta.

magenta got a lot more difficult for me to read with mara joining. But, I was still feeling pretty confident orcinus has been town overnight.

What does your scum team look like?

I expected to get some pushback about my certainty Rancid was town at the start of the game day and also some crap about getting agreement to hammer from Beli and then not hammering. I was hoping to get some sense of whether the anticipated push came from town or scum mindsets.

Other shit happened. :/

You thought you'd be a primary target today?

[Nachomamma8]

I can't imagine how happy zMuffin and Nati are to see this. I feel so sorry and feel like crap for pushing them.

I can't imagine they're actually happy to see the town driving themselves into a hole because people are making irrational pushes. I'm sure pie's pissed that you're making an irrational push on Tammy and Tammy's making an irrational push on you. I'm sure Mastin isn't happy that you're repeating old mistakes. I'm sure even LORD BUSINESS doesn't want to see this happening for the third day in a row.

NO, they are happy because they wanted to see me punished in some way for pushing the crap out of them. They don't want town to win anymore because of me.

I know they were right all along. Nati called Tammy scum. Muffin called AP scum.

I KNEW Tammy was scum all along at some deep level and was partly kidding myself into townreading her because I didn't want to scumread anyone I like playing with. I never want to scumread you, and I never want to scumread Tammy.

Like this was the first game ever that I came into the game being unsure of Tammy as opposed to calling her obvtown. That's when I should have known. That was the differentiator between her town and scum games.

I spent HOURS reading every page of Stacking the Deck front to back and back to front. I read every word she wrote in the game. I didn't even ISO. I read it in context.

I watched as you took Syr down and how she went on to win the game. Her scumgame parallels yours and is truly spectacular to watch.

Make your full case on Tammy. Post it if you still believe in it by the time that it's over.

[Nachomamma8]

Tammy, you too.

[Nachomamma8]

But if that case hits this topic, you've lost the right to read that other player forever.

[Nachomamma8]

No, I'm sure PV saying that he didn't shoot last night and claiming vig means vig shot Yggdra.

[Nachomamma8]

That makes sense rationally.

[Nachomamma8]

But I think if you were getting paranoid overnight, called out a paranoid scum team, and then the townier member of the paranoid scumteam voted you, you'd freak out and say irrational things too.

[Nachomamma8]

Aka I'm pretty sure F-16 is half me, half you.

[Nachomamma8]

Aka I'm pretty sure F-16 is half me, half you.

WHAT?

I said I'm pretty sure F-16 is half me, half you.
And I was talking to Tammy.

[Nachomamma8]

<<<< still talking

[Nachomamma8]

You don't have to bully me

[Nachomamma8]

Aka I'm pretty sure F-16 is half me, half you.

WHAT?

I said I'm pretty sure F-16 is half me, half you.
And I was talking to Tammy.

I don't get it?

Part Nacho is the tunnelfest.
Part Tammy is the paranoid reaction to you.

[Nachomamma8]

YOU ARE SPENDING SO MUCH TIME LOOKING GOOD HERE. SO, THE FUCK IS SCUM, NACHO?

Don't know.

[Nachomamma8]

You don't have to bully me

I've never?

Why are you only trying to tell me I'm wrong about falcon? I'm the one with suspicions and paranoia especially based on him setting me up for that hammer, which oh my gods was a mercy killing and the best damn thing for town at that point. I mean holy fuck.

I'm trying to get you two to read each others posts instead of reading past each other's posts and continuously pulling out the "but you REALLY think I'm scum?"

[Nachomamma8]

No one will pull out of the tunnel because it's essentially playing chicken for who blinks first.
But if you don't want to listen to me because I've never been right about anything ever, then OK.

[Nachomamma8]

You could be scum that actually visited Stalin with BRO-Desp tracking you there. BRO-Desp's role is OP. There could potentially be some kind of GF-type role to counter it with yours being it. Like I appear guilty to all cops, perhaps scum have a role that appears innocent to all cops? As for Katsuki's actions on you, perhaps you or one of your buddies is immune from being delayed or scum have a counterpart to Tammy's rolestopper role and used it on before game start? That's a lot of speculation but I can't see a clear scum motive for Katsuki to up and claim "AP didn't visit Stalin" for no reason at all either. He's a good scum player as you know from Anything Goes. He'd expect to survive and win the game.

Vote: Cupcake

[Nachomamma8]

AP IS OBV FUCKING SCUM

AND YOU GUYS EXPECT HIM TO GO DOWN QUIETLY?

There is an innocent result claimed on me. Yet you still want to lynch me first over the person claiming Im confirmed town.

Get wrecked scum.

While this is true, do you remember town!mollie in the Reckoning wanting to lynch UT even though I claimed an innocent on him?

?

[Nachomamma8]

Sometimes it's not best to look at every possible angle because every possible angle that's even close to a remotely reasonable points towards a single route.

YOUR ACTION EITHER FAILED OR YOU'RE LYING BUDDY #1

CHELSEA TORN
TOWN DELAYER

N1 MASTIN
N2 AP

YOU ARE LYING. I AM CONFIRMED VISITING STALIN.

I HAVE A PM IN MY INBOX SAYING STALIN IS NOT A REPLICA.

AND I HAVE A PM CONFIRMING MY ACTION

HUEHUEHUE TWO CAN PLAY AT THAT "LOOK AT MA INBOX" GAME

we are van grants, instructor master, even night tracker. ap visited stalin last night.

out ability will fail against replicas.

+ffery had her ability fail
+Red Gyrados roleblocked.

I haven't seen a delayer that delays next day, motivate that motivates the next day makes sense since players need to be informed they're taking two actions instead of just one. That isn't the case for delayers.

In N's Large Theme, there was a delayer, it delayed that night.
In Bork Touhou Mini, we had a delayer fakeclaim, it delayed that night.

Saying that "Katsuki wouldn't fakeclaim a guilty on someone who was about to die because he's not that stupid as scum" is a poor argument: we don't know if Katsuki has the ability to end the game, is trying to bait a Peregrine vig shot so he can redirect it away, etc. etc. Additionally, AP has been in the scum group for a few days now, hasn't gotten lynched: every day he lives, he eliminates a paranoia possibility, causes more clears when he dies.

In order for AP to be the liar and DesBRO not additionally be a liar, AP needs to have orc's role from Vesperia (universal godfather) that not only decides what he gives results back as, but also who he targeted (and also have the foresight to say that he targeted Stalin, despite scum almost certainly blocking Stalin instead of just claiming an investigate on someone else). Do I think this is the case?

No. Not at all.

[Nachomamma8]

In order for AP to be the liar and DesBRO not additionally be a liar, AP needs to have orc's role from Vesperia (universal godfather) that not only decides what he gives results back as, but also who he targeted (and also have the foresight to say that he targeted Stalin, despite scum almost certainly blocking Stalin instead of just claiming an investigate on someone else). Do I think this is the case?

No. Not at all.

Nacho, this actually seems plausible. Why are you discounting it? If AP wanted anyone investigating him to think that he visited Stalin, of course he would make his role give back results as him targeting Stalin and then he'll claim it in the thread. Not sure what to make of scum blocking Stalin though.

Also, on night 1, I learned that "

AP did not do anything.

" Not sure how relevant this is but I thought I'd out.

...

[Nachomamma8]

You were the star scumread of Mastin though for most of the game. I'm not going to ignore that someone who knows you well and can read you was consistently convinced you were scum for the majority of the game.

...

[Nachomamma8]

Ah, a position of power. Good thing you totally abuse the heck out of that. Isn't diplomatic immunity great? You will appear as town to all cop investigations. In addition, you may choose what you appear to be when role copped. If you don't specify anything, your fakeclaim below will be used by default.

This is orc's godfather role from Vesperia.
Even this role wouldn't explain why the track on AP would go through.

[Nachomamma8]

3) We return as "replica" to all cops.

This is your role.
You think the opposite of your role is "you return as non replica for all intents and purposes for every role ever"?

[Nachomamma8]

CF is claiming shit that I have no idea is fake or true about my N1 actions. Tammy is going "oooh shiny I wonder if this means something" when it really does not.

CF is confirming that every action you've taken this game matches up with your claim.

[Nachomamma8]

And is still calling you scum.

[Nachomamma8]

That leaves three more scum among RG, Fox, Magenta, and Nacho. I'm not entirely sure if the game makes sense that way. Sure, Nacho could be bussing Orc, and Cupcake is scum with them leaving the last scum to be Fox/RG. That is not entirely implausible actually.

Scum are probably among penguin/RG/Fox/Cupcake/Magenta.
I think Penguin currently looks the towniest out of that entire group.

[Nachomamma8]

So no, not "entirely implausible" at all.

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: AP

The same questions go to you that went to CF about AP.

[Nachomamma8]

And is still calling you scum.

And you see this as town thought process?

Yes, I do. I see it more likely that CF would be unwilling to let go of his last major scumread from Day 1 as opposed to CF-scum trying to strongarm someone who is, for all intensive purposes, confirmed town.

[Nachomamma8]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THERE BE A ROLE THAT'S STRONGER THAN COP ANYWAYS?! THINK ABOUT IT, IT ESSENTIALLY GIVES ALIGNMENT RESULT + ROLE CONFIRMATION OF TOWNIES

It gives confirmed innocents, not confirmed guilties.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm equally concerned that nacho is looking reasonable about this and it concerns me that he didn't actually vote mastin yesterday all while proclaiming him SCUM!!!

Why do you think I wouldn't vote Mastin as scum?

[Nachomamma8]

That leaves three more scum among RG, Fox, Magenta, and Nacho. I'm not entirely sure if the game makes sense that way. Sure, Nacho could be bussing Orc, and Cupcake is scum with them leaving the last scum to be Fox/RG. That is not entirely implausible actually.

Scum are probably among penguin/RG/Fox/Cupcake/Magenta.
I think Penguin currently looks the towniest out of that entire group.

Tell DV that maybe he should actually follow through with his promises.
Or actually do something today!

[Nachomamma8]

I asked Desp why he wouldn't just talk about his suspicions in thread and he responded by saying that he is amused at all the ways scum are trying to set them up and doesn't care to be transparent in thread. The way he said it felt like he had no fear at all about being set up and that he could claim and talk his way out of anything.

In Too Many Heads, when Desp and I hydra'd and we were cop, Desp told me several times I was being too obvtown and intentionally played scummy in thread in order to bring chances of us being immediately killed down.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho asked AP to hydra with him.

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

No.

[Nachomamma8]

Then it seems Nacho should really claim at this point if he hasn't already.

Why, exactly?

[Nachomamma8]

I accused you of being scum for your and AP's hydra discussions in thread

How is this at all a scumtell by any stretch of the imagination?

[Nachomamma8]

Didn't you get bothered when Rancid was like "oh I bet F-16 is scum for saying he wants to hydra with Tammy?".
It's a discussion that isn't alignment-relevant.

[Nachomamma8]

Then it seems Nacho should really claim at this point if he hasn't already.

Why, exactly?

According to Tammy, you can be roleblocked.

According to AP, he targeted you night1 and failed.

According to Stalin, he went no where night1.

According to you, you understand why he failed.

Let's start with these reasons.

None of this adds up to a reason why I should claim.

[Nachomamma8]

I accused you of being scum for your and AP's hydra discussions in thread

How is this at all a scumtell by any stretch of the imagination?

PIRATE SPEAK IS SCUMMY!!!

Nacho <3 mollie

[Nachomamma8]

That leaves three more scum among RG, Fox, Magenta, and Nacho. I'm not entirely sure if the game makes sense that way. Sure, Nacho could be bussing Orc, and Cupcake is scum with them leaving the last scum to be Fox/RG. That is not entirely implausible actually.

Scum are probably among penguin/RG/Fox/Cupcake/Magenta.
I think Penguin currently looks the towniest out of that entire group.

And Cupcake decides to all of a sudden think "Hey, let me try to fake-claim results on AP to get him lynched!"

Why not, exactly? Mislynch pool is shrinking if that's the scumteam.
They essentially have AP to mislynch, me to mislynch (lol), and...? Katsuki might feel he has room to squirm after AP's flip, considering his anti-town meta, and he also might feel like railroading the lynch onto AP as opposed to risking scumbuddy getting lynched is worth it.

[Nachomamma8]

I think it's stupid to go "oh, Katsuki wouldn't fakeclaim like this" when you have DesBro OR AP needing to be liars in order to call Katsuki town and one of those possibilities is out of play due to being extremely town and the other possibility is out of play because of a clear (that's not just a cop clear or a no result = town) and having night actions corroborated by two separate people on two separate occasions.

[Nachomamma8]

They are curently sitting in the lolcabdgame bin.

This isn't an excuse.

[Nachomamma8]

As in, the correct response when role information directly contradicts your reads isn't "oh, I guess my reads are right and lolcabdgame!"

[Nachomamma8]

But BOTH flipping town and telling us to get AP dead? That only increased my suspicion rather than throw me off.

It increased YOUR suspicion.
And also the suspicion of your last major scumread.
Which you're holding onto despite of everything pointing to a different conclusion because "lolcabdgame".

[Nachomamma8]

As in, the correct response when role information directly contradicts your reads isn't "oh, I guess my reads are right and lolcabdgame!"

But it seems so implausible that AP is acting the way he has been and is actually town.

That and Mastin's read. Unless AP is doing a mega-troll on us and thought "hey, let me play to my scum-meta to troll Mastin and also spend a ton of time accusing obvtown of being scum, that should be fun, fun, fun!"

"But it's a really strong read!"

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

This is true. Maybe you could explain, like Stalin, why it in not in the Town's best interest for you to claim.

I can explain a few possibilities for our role.

1) Triggered Untargetable: Nonkilling roles target us, we become untargetable by any other actions.
2) Commuter (limited or full)
3) Ascetic
4) One-Shot Commuter, other goodies elsewhere

All of these mean that scum have to deal with our role differently. It's obviously useless for them to burn rolecop/roleblocker on me if I'm a full commuter or Ascetic, might be a consideration for a kill based on other goodies, etc. etc. etc.

[Nachomamma8]

As in, the correct response when role information directly contradicts your reads isn't "oh, I guess my reads are right and lolcabdgame!"

But it seems so implausible that AP is acting the way he has been and is actually town.

That and Mastin's read. Unless AP is doing a mega-troll on us and thought "hey, let me play to my scum-meta to troll Mastin and also spend a ton of time accusing obvtown of being scum, that should be fun, fun, fun!"

"But it's a really strong read!"

But it is so unlikely Mastin was wrong.

Too Many Heads...?

[Nachomamma8]

But it might be a mistake assuming someone is fallible.

[Nachomamma8]

But there's still rolecops.
I'm not claiming. Shoot me and find out if I can die!

[Nachomamma8]

Mastin was scum thee.

I used that as an example of people being infallible with reads that are normally pretty on point.

[Nachomamma8]

I dont even understand what is being discussed, please advise.

I said I wanted to hydra with you.
F-16 took this as a sign of an AP/Nacho team.
I thought this scumtell was dumb.

[Nachomamma8]

I dont even understand what is being discussed, please advise.

I said I wanted to hydra with you.
F-16 took this as a sign of an AP/Nacho team.
I thought this scumtell was dumb.

[Nachomamma8]

DV: I don't think your avatar is all that cute and I don't think you're a very nice person.

[Nachomamma8]

WANT NACHO READS LIST NOW

I felt like God gave me the sincerest hug God could ever give a mere mortal when I saw Desperado's reads list.

[Nachomamma8]

I felt like if Desperado's reads list was a woman (or a man), I would leave the life I have completely and elope with it.

[Nachomamma8]

I also feel this reads list had also already been deposited into thread when I commented on your "if AP is town post".

[Nachomamma8]

We're not lynching AP today, sorry Falcon.

[Nachomamma8]

I felt like if Desperado's reads list was a woman (or a man), I would leave the life I have completely and elope with it.

I still don't see you calling anyone scum or giving any reasons why they are. For instance, why is Fox, or RG scum? You say Cupcake is scum and you seem to think Magenta is scum as well. With Penguin a potential fifth suspect if one of your scumreads are wrong.

Lack of towniness.

[Nachomamma8]

Cephrir, everytime you post, it breaks my heart into tiny little pieces because you aren't DV.