Tales of You (Endgame)

[PeregrineV]

Not really in the mood for an RVS vote. Will read in the next few days.

[PeregrineV]

Back from VLA. I'll catch up on the game before it gets out of my control.

[PeregrineV]

Back from VLA. I'll catch up on the game before it gets out of my control.

OK, not a total fail, but busy work week.

[PeregrineV]

Player Roster:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
3 Yukari Yakumo
4 orcinus_theoriginal
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
11 Lord Business
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton
17 Mac

[PeregrineV]

Saturday post!

[PeregrineV]

Bottom of page 8.


Just a heads up to all the self-proclaimed obvtown players- saying it means nothing to me.Even if I see it, it means nothing, so saying it almost means less than nothing.

Reading continuing, but I hope all that crap is out of the way. If not, know that I'll be ignoring it.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV: Some people pointed out his OP as scummy, even questioning him on basis of "do you even know RVS is over?" It is an easy way to get into the game with that kind of OP. However, what if Peregrine legitimately did not even read the thread? What if he was just informing us that he was going to catch up and decided to post that hastily (because he doesn't have time to look back over multiple pages of posts)? When Peregrine was making the post, he simply did not know RVS was over and was under the assumption that it was still going on (it's Day 1 with one day barely passing; you don't expect much progress that early).

5 pages is easily in RVS range, and I kind of really like my RVS vote, it's like the last chance to play before work begins. But, when I started, I just really didn't feel like it.
And no, read nothing before that post. And pretty much nothing until now.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, did you catch up? What are your thoughts?

-FT

My thoughts right now are a skim would be more effective than a read.

And I'm avoiding middle of the night grocery shopping.

Please tell me the thread gets better...

[PeregrineV]

Did you seriously just post the player list?

Yes. It's easier for me to keep track of who's who.

[PeregrineV]

I am sooooo happy Pere finally popped in and posted the player list and did absolutely nothing else. I'm also looking forward to the fact that he probably won't do anything all weekend long because it's the weekend! Maybe Monday, he'll repost the player list for us again. I was really wondering how I would know who was playing, so glad he's on top of that!

Close, Tuesday!

And no, just normal crap posting.

[PeregrineV]

Hey cupcake, if you're not going to do anything, the proper procedure is to POST THE PLAYER LIST WHEN YOU POP IN!!!

KAY

Player Roster:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) - SCUM
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV) - SCUM
3 Yukari Yakumo - SCUM
4 orcinus_theoriginal - SCUM
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) - NICE
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha) - SCUM
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK) - SCUM
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli) - SCUM
9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling) - SCUM
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) - SCUM
11 Lord Business - SCUM
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - SCUM
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) - SCUM
14 Cupcake Panda - CUPCAKE
15 PeregrineV - SCUM
16 Clyton - SCUM
17 Mac - SCUM

AMIDOIN DIS RITE?

I doubt it. Last game I made like that didn't go over well.

[PeregrineV]

Done. Back later today at work.

[PeregrineV]

@AP- you got scum, eh?

[PeregrineV]

@AP- you got scum, eh?

Pv please dont bus me just yet, I can salvage this slot.

You got one day before becoming the new tread inspector.

[PeregrineV]

Like, AP.

I really <3 you. Really, really do.

But you are a cheeky, cheeky scumbutt this game and need to die in a fire.

when you where scum as the birdinabath hydra, who did most of the posting? What did the QT look like?

[PeregrineV]

Players in this game who should recognize AP's entrance:

Me
Desp
mastin
Tammy
BS
ns
Cupcake
p5
Mac

Would scum-mastin be brave enough to make a push that scum-him made verbatim with this many players overlapping from the previous game?

What game are you referring to when you say "AP's entrance"?

[PeregrineV]

Player Roster:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
3 Yukari Yakumo
4 orcinus_theoriginal
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
11 Lord Business
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton
17 Mac

Alright, this is what this is for. General impressions time.

Probtown
Lord Business
Carbon Fiber
Clyton

Next level town
Titan
orcinus


Null on town side
Kagura or Yakumo
Mac
Red Gyarados
Stalin
Fox Hound


Null on scum side
Kagura or Yakumo
Cupcake
Just Sheep
Rancid

[PeregrineV]

I'm preeeetty town this game, dunno how my opening posts didn't make that blazingly obvious. I cant claim town any harder than I already am.

Mac wants you to iso him and give a made-up read based on his posts.

Go!

[PeregrineV]

I have this in my catchup wall somewhere, but Cupcake's super obvtown and the mislynch bait that's probably going to get lynched this game despite me pointing out why it's obvtown.

Is this due to a post Cupcake made, or is it because he is topped with non-dairy icing and scum Cupcake never uses non-dairy icing?

[PeregrineV]

Why would I want that?

AP is asking to be coached to gain direction in the game. I am giving him a starting point.

[PeregrineV]

FUCK IT THIS TIME THIS WILL BE AN ACTUAL VC GOD I AM A HORRIBLE MOD

You should get one of those sidekick mods.

[PeregrineV]

Why is mastins vote crossed out and on red?

764 etc.

[PeregrineV]

You're missing us.

Null on town side

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: PeregrineV

I rather would entreat thy company
To see the wonders of the world abroad,
Than, living dully sluggardized at home,
Wear out thy youth with shapeless idleness.

Sure, let's go to Moscow.

[PeregrineV]

Also realized you're missing ElementalHawk/AP.

Null on scum side

[PeregrineV]

20 pages?

[PeregrineV]

PV, you think one of KAgura/Yakumo is scum but not both?

The names blur. I initially liked one for town, and one less so.

[PeregrineV]

PV, I am confused as to how quoting the post helped at all?

If you mean the playerlist its because there are a shitload of hydras and I use my ISO like a QT thread to keep my thoughts. At some sorry point I'll have to crack through the hydra heads and look for tells, and isoing the mod+me+another player just for playerlist is a pain.

[PeregrineV]

I'D QUOTE YOU THE FUCKING POST, BUY TURNS OUT YOU CAN'T QUOTE FROM LOCKED THREADS WITH THE QUOTE BUTTON.

PM it, then copy it from the PM into the thread. or link to it.

[PeregrineV]

PV is totally disengaged from the game in a way that he usually isn't when he's town. There's no signs of effort. There's no signs of analysis. There's no signs of anything that he does when he's town. The way he's disengaged from the game here reminds me of how he was playing in the recently finished mafiassk large. It's the same lack of analysis. The same lack of effort. I'm pretty sure PV is scum here and I know he looks like scum in every single fucking game but this is so blindingly obvious that I don't know how others cannot see it, let alone think he's town.

I used to be "hard town". What happened?

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV: I want you in the game analyzing. Even if you're town, I wouldn't cry at your death at this point, which is bad for you.

13 pages to see if there is any *actual* information.

[PeregrineV]

Hey BRO

Just so we're clear

You think we claimed Hated Miller Gladiator out the gate because... we're scum who decided claiming an extremely negative utility role that was easily provable was a gooooooooood idea because... DERP DERP DERP I'M BRO AND I'M HOPING NOBODY THINKS ABOUT THIS AND THIS MISLYNCH GOES THROUGH WITHOUT ME LOOKING OBVSCUM

Since you are REALLY sticking with this, when you gladiate, if it take 8 to lynch the other guy, does it take only 7 to lynch you? Or, is your hated modifer "always on", as it it ALWAYS takes one less than normal to lynch you?

[PeregrineV]

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

[PeregrineV]

Ok softball game to go to. Not liking Fox/Hound wagon at this point.

[PeregrineV]

A pirate's life for me,
For a town pirate's all I can be
Being scum is so much fun
But it's too much work

And this game, you will not worry
My alignment is guaranteed
I have a transparent partner this game
And his name is bork borkieeeeeee

And so I'll troll and troll and troll and then I'll troll some more
I'll lynch scream and defend until the daytime ends
Then if I survive I will go trolling once again

- Lord Business

Hi!

VOTE: kagura

Okay here's what I need from you guys. Nacho, if you're town I need to feel it. Alternatively, Bork you can obvtown up your slot ASAP please. I will stay with you, but if you value my sanity at all (and if you're town you should!), you will please just do this for me.

I briefly skimmed the first couple pages, notscience here's an awesome town tell for me. I literally just woke up, and the first thing I did was log in to this game. Though I'd love to stay and goof off I've got to go to work.

As the Pirate Goddess of Mafiascum,
I hearby solely swear
For every person who townreads us
I will answer them with a pirate prayer

A shot of Jack and a hint of Coke
No matter the hour, before I post
For with every townie show
Should come a drunken glow

-Lord Business

Doing the KY stuff.

What is this?

[PeregrineV]

I was gonna vote you before I was pinged by the Fox!

Wondering what it was that "pinged" you.

I see the vote in 870, and two posts about/with Fox (954, 977), so can you elaborate?

[PeregrineV]

Looking over Yukari Yakumo (GiF) posting, the sum of it seems to be:

Have developed a strong townread on ElementalHawk/AP (1235), wants more info on why people are scumreading the slot (but 1272....).

The player most scumreading it is MastinSSK, who earns himself a vote in 1447 while simultaneously reducing the townread of AP/Elemental slot (1564)

Overall, a hard

[PeregrineV]

Meh- they can both go on null on scum side.

[PeregrineV]

Prod received. Sig updated for weekends.

I'll be back later today to check on all my questions from last week.

[PeregrineV]

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

@AP- Never saw an answer to this.

[PeregrineV]

A pirate's life for me,
For a town pirate's all I can be
Being scum is so much fun
But it's too much work

And this game, you will not worry
My alignment is guaranteed
I have a transparent partner this game
And his name is bork borkieeeeeee

And so I'll troll and troll and troll and then I'll troll some more
I'll lynch scream and defend until the daytime ends
Then if I survive I will go trolling once again

- Lord Business

Hi!

VOTE: kagura

Okay here's what I need from you guys. Nacho, if you're town I need to feel it. Alternatively, Bork you can obvtown up your slot ASAP please. I will stay with you, but if you value my sanity at all (and if you're town you should!), you will please just do this for me.

I briefly skimmed the first couple pages, notscience here's an awesome town tell for me. I literally just woke up, and the first thing I did was log in to this game. Though I'd love to stay and goof off I've got to go to work.

As the Pirate Goddess of Mafiascum,
I hearby solely swear
For every person who townreads us
I will answer them with a pirate prayer

A shot of Jack and a hint of Coke
No matter the hour, before I post
For with every townie show
Should come a drunken glow

-Lord Business

Doing the KY stuff.

What is this?

@Kagura-

I don't don't understand the two posts above where you are rhyming but have signed with another player's name. Can you explain the meaning behind them?

[PeregrineV]

I was gonna vote you before I was pinged by the Fox!

Wondering what it was that "pinged" you.

I see the vote in 870, and two posts about/with Fox (954, 977), so can you elaborate?

@Kagura

- Here's another one.

[PeregrineV]

I don't know what to make of Pere's posting though; I feel he'll always be a damn enigma to me :/

Wrapped in a riddle inside a mystery?

But seriously, if you question something, why not ask?

[PeregrineV]

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)

So I want to talk about each of the players in more detail. Conveniently enough, I just discussed bork yet he's also the first on the list, meaning I might as well knock him out of the park first.

I remember really strongly liking bork's early posting, though I don't remember why. I think it mighta been due to jiving well, seeming casual, relaxed, and all-in-all, that town tone. That, however, is weak.
I remember not liking Nacho's posting, as if it felt like the scum him who I've wanted to catch for ages now...and then it dawned on me that that's pretty much precisely why he probably wouldn't actually be scum. Because while I am weary of a scum-Nacho, I know Nacho's scum game has taken strides, and his game here doesn't seem super-strong. It feels okayish, but not super-mega-strong like I'd kinda be expecting of a scum-him. So I overall reached the conclusion of him being town.

When it comes to bork's posting, I'm not sure what it is about it. It's like that same posting said a different way would look like scum, but said the way he does just feels like town. And how to describe it eludes me. It just feels like...I dunno, transparent? Like I can follow a stream of thought, and that his thoughts when presented before me look immensely town.

So overall, while I have had paranoia of them, I'm thinking town.
And screw it, right or wrong, I'm sticking with stronger-town.

An iso of Kagura and perhaps one or two posts quoted to illustrate the points you are trying to make would go far to bolster your read.

Since it's forum mafia and all.

[PeregrineV]

2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)

Coincidentally enough, that made a nice segway into the next player on the list.

As a warning, there's basically nothing here that I haven't already said. But basically...the main reason they're scum is that they haven't been posting as town. There's a lack of sincerity in their posting, especially in their shallow scumhunting. Their posting is manipulative rather than analytical, and they're playing reactively rather than proactively. Additionally, their posting is largely buddying. Know what's really part of the reason they're scum? A lack of provocation. Of safeness in their posting. The closest they come to it is in their dismissive posting, which itself is, well, scummy.

I pulled up their iso, and I'm seeing all of this, quite strongly, throughout their posting, in basically every section of the game. That lack of true, well...effort, for lack of a better word. There's nothing in there that is remarkable. Just stuff meant to look good that vaguely points people in directions that are beneficial to them.

I really can't describe it better than that.

I guess we can do this on all the players, but see 1775. You are making very vague statements that require more work to refute than it takes you to make, very much like making someone prove a negative.

Or, maybe I should say your post was pre-answered. This pre-answer ios an example of why I disagree with this read.

You, not able to explain something? Fancy that. I just wish I could tell whether or not that's because you're making shit up.

[PeregrineV]

15 PeregrineV

I'll have to get back on you on this one. Overall feeling at the moment is mehtown, but I need to iso him. More content from PV would be appreciated, though.

At this point I'm thinking that the appreciation will be less than originally intended. But I'll finish reading before I come back to this.

[PeregrineV]

2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)

Coincidentally enough, that made a nice segway into the next player on the list.

As a warning, there's basically nothing here that I haven't already said. But basically...the main reason they're scum is that they haven't been posting as town. There's a lack of sincerity in their posting, especially in their shallow scumhunting. Their posting is manipulative rather than analytical, and they're playing reactively rather than proactively. Additionally, their posting is largely buddying. Know what's really part of the reason they're scum? A lack of provocation. Of safeness in their posting. The closest they come to it is in their dismissive posting, which itself is, well, scummy.

I pulled up their iso, and I'm seeing all of this, quite strongly, throughout their posting, in basically every section of the game. That lack of true, well...effort, for lack of a better word. There's nothing in there that is remarkable. Just stuff meant to look good that vaguely points people in directions that are beneficial to them.

I really can't describe it better than that.

DV Analysis:

I felt DV's progression of suspicion on Rancid felt incredibly town. In particular, I liked how he went from having mild concerns in Post 383 towards a full-out case and vote in Post 1165. A lot of the reasoning he provided there also made a ton of sense considering Rancid's reaction of wanting to gladiate BRO and Desp wasn't the strongest. I also liked the additional criticism of Nati's outburst since was misdirected. Even more than the content, the ostentatious tone with which he cast the vote felt incredibly bold and not at all "

safe

" the way Mastin is portraying Fox's posting to be. Regardless of whether you actually agree with DV's reasons, I didn't feel like voting Muffin's slot who is one of the most difficult lynches on the site to be either safe or opportunistic (and no, being hated doesn't make him a significantly easier lynch). I like the reasons DV provided for his vote, I like the timing and I liked the forcefulness with which he presented his case.

Take a look at how he presents his scumreads in his other town and scum games.

SCUM:
NY160B: Welcome to Castle Zar: The timing of his Snowstorm scumread in Post 555 felt off and ill-timed, pushing on reasons that he never commented on before and having no real read-progression. He also wasn't very ostentatious or attention grabbing with the way he pushed the read and it felt a lot more weak and his heart really wasn't in it.

/in-vitational12: His scumread on Penguin who was a likely lynch in Post 334 again came across as sleazy and opportunistic and not at all like he genuinely believed the reasons behind it. It was also somewhat nebulous and the reasons he provided were weak and not concrete at all.

TOWN:
Mini 1472: You can see that the way DV asserts himself is completely different from his scumgames. The reasoning he provides for his push on PurpleLobsta here in Post 249 and the way he presented it was much more solid than any of his scumgames and gives the impression that he genuinely believed what he was saying. His continued push in his later posts also had the same solid backing and confident reasoning and he isn't afraid to put himself in the limelight.

Song Contest Upick: Note in particular his read on T-Bone and it comes across as very natural and the push is strong and the language he uses in Post 1699 feels like he isn't holding anything back. This differs from the often stilted tone in his scumgames where the fact that he doesn't really believe in his reads becomes evident.

Overall, I like the content that the Fox and the Hound have provided. Their positions are relatable and understandable, I can follow most of their reasoning, and the way DV pushes his reads feels a lot more like his pushes as town than scum.

~ F-16

@MastinSSK- Do you see the difference between the two? While the Carbon analysis usefulness is limited at this point, I find the argument easier to follow and more compelling. If the reads where the same, I 'd suspect you were both scum and you were feeding Carbon his posts. As it stands, I think Carbon is town, and I'm trying to decipher you.

[PeregrineV]

So, ffery, given your current read-state, how to you view the narrative of mastin/Titan/RDB/CF/FoxHound/AP/myself based on your reads (i.e., who's doing what in terms of actions?)

hellifino

I'm refining reads on the basis of the interactions, but I don't have an overarching narrative about it. Not yet, anyway.

I've gone back and forth a little with you guys and had you in my scumpile at one point, but have more of a townfeel now that you're interacting.

:/

Why does nobody scum hunt the way I do

Explain how you view the narrative between the 7 players based on your current read-state. Because at this point, none of that makes any sense.

[PeregrineV]

Tammy, here's who I think is town (will provide reasons later): Titan, Kagura, Mac, Fox, Breakfast, Orc, Red Gyarados, Lord Business

Scum are among

: Rancid, MastinSSK, JustSheepUs,

Cupcake

, Clyton, ElementalHawk, Yukari, PereV

I need to refine this list a little and I'll re-read each of them to make sure.
~ F-16

That puts me with 9 townreads now leaving MastinSSK, Rancid, Clyton, PereV, Cupcake, AP, GIF

I lean

gut-town

on Clyton,

Cupcake

and PereV but I

need more info

to solidify those reads.

Let's assume you are town. In that scenario, let's say Rancid is also town. I'm actually more convinced 3Dice/AP could be scum and that's a push I can get behind. Maybe Cupcake but that's more due to a lack of content but I can buy Cupcake-scum if Mastin-town.

~ F-16

Oh, as to why I am townreading BRO and Desp: Desp's reads list is very close to mine. I am seeing eye to eye with them. There are a few other reasons I want to wait to explain them. It'll be clearer later.

Pedit: I think Clyton could be town. I have a hard time reading him so I am trying to get as much content from him as I can get.

Cupcake could be town too but I need more content.

Same with PeregrineV.

I'll explain the reads

when I have something more solid than gut. I don't think my reads are infallible. All it took was Nacho saying he was reading DV as scum to want to revisit that read. "Solid" is relative. I am not going to try to lynch every player outside of my town-list till LYLO. I'll refine my reads as the game progresses.

~ F-16

Here's where I am at:

I am not opposed to an AngryPidgeon lynch and he is a much better lynch than most and I'll switch if that's the way we want to go.

What I'd strongly prefer we not do is lynch any of Just Sheep Us or The Fox and The Hound.

They along with Titan, Kagura, Mac, Breakfast, Orc, and

Cupcake are strong townreads

. RedGyarados and LB are weaker townreads. RG is mostly because FT is concerned about them but the replacement queue involved needing NotScience replacements so I am thinking town. That leaves MastinSSK, Rancid, AP, Clyton, GIF, and PeregrineV.

~ F-16

@Carbon-

would like a detailed description of reads evolution from pre-1740 to 1740. It appears Cupcake went from a "scum/town/need more" to a "strong townread" on the basis of these 2 posts.

Hmm...

HMM

14 Cupcake Panda

Okay, at this stage, is probably town anyway, but bluntly, is acting anti-town and will likely continue to do so throughout the whole game as honorary-scum.

That's not the definition of

"honourary scum"

sorry.

[PeregrineV]

I'm seriously struggling to follow the thought process behind this, and in fact the reason behind all this as a whole.You've randomly targetted GiF and his townread on EHAP, and then somehow spun mastin into it, and then in the end basically went "fuck it" and thrown them both pretty much back in the cage where they came from rather than trying to sort them?

I randomly targeted Kagura and Yakumo? it was not based on 1556?

And 1591 is a reduction of all the noise posting that boils it down to the facts. And those facts are the sum total of his posting.

This puts them into the (1592) null on the sum side.

Meh- they can both go on null on scum side.

What part of this confuses you or do you object to?

[PeregrineV]

I lost the entire fucking post, so I'll break it down to little words since I just blew an hour.

I don't want to have to put in mountains and mountains of effort not knowing whether I'll be successful, not knowing whether it's going to even make a difference or whether it's just going to be fucking ignored because "lol muffin could totally do that as scum". There are some things I legitimately don't think I can do as scum, and while I don't really want to talk about them in detail, I'm hoping people figure it out at some point because I'm getting fucking sick of this shit.

How the fuck do you think mafia is played?

It seems far simpler to keep the names in a notepad / word document. Especially since then you don't have to keep scrolling back to the post to find out the names?

... ... ... Don't really believe you legitimately think this makes sense.

I play from multiple locations, and use external stuff like that when needed. I post in-thread because it's easier.

I am pretty sure you have me confused with someone else? I have not once called you town in this game. I am pretty sure Nati hasn't either. I know I haven't called you town because at no stage of this game have I thought that anything you've posted looked like it came from a town mindset.

1192

[PeregrineV]

Um, two things here:
1563
Why would I answer this question? In what possible way could it benefit you or anybody else to know this information if I haven't already deemed it fit to share.

Is knowing the answer to this question going to advance the game in any way, shape or form? Because I can't see this as anything other than role fishing, and I cannot possibly fathom how my answer to this question would do anything to change how you're viewing the game at the moment. So, uh, yeah

Basically, I refuse to answer any questions that are role-related this game; when I deem it necessary, I might share some information, but I will not answer questions about it other than on a need-to-know basis.

You're the one that played the "I'm a gladiator!" card. You claimed it, re-claimed it, clarified it, flavored it, vilified it, modified it, defended it, weeped it, washed, waxed, dried and painted it, and now you are confused and coy and giving me shit about being questioned about it?

Tell you right now, Spartacus, that shit's only going to fall one way, so if you want your role used as a determinant for your alignment (as apparently you do, or you wouldn't have claimed in your first post) expect the questions.

Spoiler: Rancid IS SPARTACUS!

Yaaar, we be a hated miller age cop gladiator!

I dare ye treeweasels to counterclaim!

VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

I cannot in the life of me ever seeing this actually being a thing

That not be our actual role name, by the way, just a description of our role.

Also, it's a modified gladiator but me other half left that out.

I mean, from a theory perspective, you may as well wait for me to 1v1 you. If our gladiator ability weren't a night action, I'd be using it today, but unfortunately it is, so tomorrow it will have to be.

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

All I'm saying is that this same thing happened in the open. You have like four players blithering at each other for however long and I simply don't have the patience to keep up with it. Like, you know how I'm reading Tammy from now on? By how much her posts make my eyes bleed. And if I wasn't an immortal sword-demon spirit thing, I would be blind right now. This counts double for f-16, too.

Like, I just can't be assed to read all these goddamn posts about literally nothing again. I'm not doing it. I was excited to play in this game, but holy shit wtf I can't handle it. ffery, mastin, AP all at least understand that brevity gets shit done.

Also you have Desp-Bro sitting here being like incredibly super scum lol. Not lying, we ARE gladiating them tomorrow if we don't lynch them today.

tldr Titan/Sheep scumteam+f-16 as secret fifth traitor and no I won't talk or even likely read your posts Tammy because when you flail this hard, I just can't stand it. I do like playing with you and all that, but ugggggh.

/rage

(Also, to any future mods, if you want to include a gladiator in your game, don't. It's a poorly designed role that shouldn't exist).

I actually agree with this though.

Also we're not strictly a gladiator, we're a modified gladiator, but there is no use specifying exactly what the modifications to it are.

There are... certain possible things that can happen when we battle someone that are dependent on factors which I'm not going to be discussing probably at all this game.

Hey BRO

Just so we're clear

You think we claimed Hated Miller Gladiator out the gate because... we're scum who decided claiming an extremely negative utility role that was easily provable was a gooooooooood idea because... DERP DERP DERP I'M BRO AND I'M HOPING NOBODY THINKS ABOUT THIS AND THIS MISLYNCH GOES THROUGH WITHOUT ME LOOKING OBVSCUM

Wait RBD is ACTUALLY a hated miller gladiator something?

Yes. Nati also kinda flavour-claimed as well in a subtle-but-not-so-subtle way.

100% not trolling.

His last will was that I gladiate DespBro tomorrow

With tears in my eyes, I'll carry out his wishes

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

That one head your talking about also didn't try to get town read in NY169.

Yeah, I did, kinda, just in slightly different ways than I normally try to as scum

Hey BRO

Just so we're clear

You think we claimed Hated Miller Gladiator out the gate because... we're scum who decided claiming an extremely negative utility role that was easily provable was a gooooooooood idea because... DERP DERP DERP I'M BRO AND I'M HOPING NOBODY THINKS ABOUT THIS AND THIS MISLYNCH GOES THROUGH WITHOUT ME LOOKING OBVSCUM

last i checked you were completely off the radar for the first fifty pages of the game

so...???

I was "off the radar" because people didn't realise it was a serious claim. I clarified it was a serious claim, so your objection here is pathetically weak.

I was also off the radar because nobody had the balls to commit to a fucking read on me because that's how shit goes now apparently, but it's not like I wasn't in the thick of things

But since you have a scum read on me, how about you talk about the reasons you think I'm scum

Because not only is he trying to pass it off as an "obvtown" entrance (because he knows he's done it as town before, but he also isn't stupid enough to realise it's something he could fake as scum, so it's not a fucking obvtown entrance, and him calling it obvtown is because he's hoping people draw the parallels and call it obvtown because he's done it as town before) but I think it's an entrance he specifically did as scum trying to imitate his town game because I already thought the fucking slot was scum prior the the replacement.

man that plan really wor--oh wait, no it didn't

so do you think ap is incompetent? why do you think scum-ap would tailor his game to you, of all people in this playerlist?

I don't have any opinion on AP as a player. I've played with him twice before (both times town) and he was average both times. I'm not sure what he's capable of as scum, but you're missing the point completely or you're just playing dumb here.

He used an opening he's used before as town, correct? You're following so far? Stop me at the point I've lost you because I know I'm talking to a special person here and I don't want to go too fast. Let's think about why he would do this. It's possible he's town and thought, "OMG, a good way to enter this game is to use an opening I've done as town before, an opening that I could easily fake as scum, and then berate people when they don't think I'm obvtown because of my opening posts! I'll call them really, really obvtown and criticise anyone who disagrees because that is a sensible thing to do!" You seem to think this is what he did. But again, I know you're a... very special person... so I'm not particularly surprised you think this. I think the more likely scenario is that he's scum and thought, "hey I'm going to imitate an opening that most of the player list has seen me do as town before and then criticise anyone who thinks it isn't a town entrance because they know I've done it as town before!" <- not only did he actually do this, but he didn't even have to bring up the past game he did it as town for comparison because it was an unconscious link that... special players like yourself... made. this is exactly the sort of thing i did in gif's touhou game with the way i approached the gaiden lynch D1; i didn't want to point out myself that it was unlike what i've done as scum in the past, i let cabd point out my usual bussing meta and then i let YOU (desp) point out that he was, in fact, wrong. i think AP was doing a similar thing here.

Gonna be honest, as much as I want to believe BRO is right about me, I really think hes going for townpoints with this gladiator push. I think he thinks its expected of him? Or hes just trying to get me on his side? BRO is an objectively good player and pushing gladiators because you got gladiated by scum once is not objectively good play.

what fucking townpoints are available for pushing a gladiator claim like 2 weeks after they claimed it when the slot has had less than zero pressure on it?

i think you're doing it not because you think it will give you town points, but because you think it's expected of you (as town, you would push a lynch on a gladiator claim is what you think. so you are not analysing things in a town way and instead you're blindly pushing this)

If that's the case, his annoyance is misplaced. He could maybe address the people creating noisy back-and-forths as opposed to someone like me who is keeping noise to a minimum. There is plenty of stuff that I haven't responded to and don't intend to because I don't believe it will help me solve the game. Most of my back-and-forths are questions, conversations, or analysis/explanations of reads.

This is a really town post.

-b

No, it isn't.

Look. I am not good at conveying why things mean to me what they do. My townread stands.

So in spite of me pointing out that your reasoning is completely flawed, you're like, "Nope, townread stands!"

K

And you wonder why people don't read you as town

If you can't handle the fact that I tend to come up with strange and seemingly illogical reasons when I'm pushed for them, you should hang me every game.

It's not that your reasons are illogical, it's that they're blatantly wrong and you don't seem to care

I suppose that does actually make them illogical... hmm

How the fuck should I be reading you as town when you don't care that you're wrong?

If you're town, I would like you to iso me again, try to be just a teensy bit objective, and tell me you still think I'm scum, and why would be appreciated but is optional. I happen to think the position that I am scum is not only untenable but becoming increasingly so.

I'm not going to ISO you. I can tell you why I think you're scum off the top of my head. All your pushes this game have come from a place that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Your mastin push is a really good example of this (I am still not sure why you actually think mastin is scum when they're really obviously not and I see you using the excuse that you always think mastin looks scummy to hide behind in the same way you did in Xenosaga) but all of your other pushes come from a place that makes just as little sense. The vote on me? What the fuck was that bullshit? Honestly. Like wow. I know it was the DV head but fucking wow. One of the most hilariously bad votes I've ever seen placed on me. And when I pointed out how fucking illogical it was, you guys just shrugged it off and said, "Nope, still not wrong!" Really. Fucking. Town. Of you guys.

I don't understand how you can even think that I should clearly think Mastin is town, because they've given me basically no reason to at all and plenty to think the opposite, ie pushing for an easy mislynch on me like it's literally a stronger conviction than most people's religions and still can't even pretend to have a reason excpet "this is soooooooooooooo scum" as though having a sufficient number of vowels in a word makes it extra convincing.

This is such a load of bullshit. Firstly, if this is your reason for thinking mastin is scum, then why isn't mastin justified in thinking you're scum. Because you literally have no reason for thinking mastin is scum that isn't virtually identical to why mastin thinks you're scum (but with less substance because mastin has more reasons to think you're scum than just this). Secondly, mastin is obvtown, and I don't expect you to see it (partially because you're scum and partially because you have no fucking clue how to read mastin). But what you should know is that I know how to read mastin and I'm telling you mastin isn't scum here. Instead of finding out why I think mastin isn't scum, you're ignoring it and going, "Nope, mastin scum! I'm right!" Again. Not. A. Town. Thought. Process.

Tell you what. Why don't you sum up all the reasons you think mastin is scum for me, so I have something to assess. Because so far I haven't seen any town thought processes coming from your push here. Convince me I'm wrong.

Muffin. There is a chance you are town. You were in 169. Does this not look exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like what happened to me in that game.

The thing is, in that game you were making logical arguments. Your points had some merit. Your attitude was completely different. In that game you even acknowledged that the people who were scum reading you had a fucking point because you knew your play wasn't town-looking at the beginning of that game and it was only after you started putting in effort that you really came across as town looking. And even then it was different to this game because in that game you were assessing things in a town-looking way. Here? Not seeing it.

The thing is I can't give examples of something that's not there. So I can't show that you're not assessing things in the same way you were in 169. So comparing this to 169 is just dumb.

If you really think it looks more like my tunnel on bulbafenix in 165, I can't help you. Because it doesn't. I actually won that argument because I got to make up nice-sounding reasons.

I actually think this is more similar to your Xenosaga play than your 169 play (I didn't, and won't, read 165 so I don't care about that). In Xenosaga, you made up similar reasons to tunnel mastin, similarly terrible reasons, while ignoring everyone pointing out that you're wrong, and hiding behind the mask of, "I always think mastin looks scummy!"

It was bullshit there, it's bullshit here.

I think you use it because mastin is an easy target to push (barely anybody reads anything mastin writes so you can look like you're having an argument with someone and know that the person you're arguing with won't be listened to)

I do not think you're taking a step back here and looking for the ways in which you could be wrong. I do not think you actually think you're right here. Or at least if you do, you could come up with better reasons for your push than you currently have.

I also think you're scum here for a reason I'd rather not talk about at this point in time but may talk about at a later time if it's convenient for me.

- drake and mastin both scumread him for his entrance posts; bro townreads him

No, I'm not scum reading AP for his entrance (though I do not think it was a town entrance). I'm scum reading him because I thought his predecessor was scum, and I do not think his play so far (up to p54, still catching up) looks town. The opening was one example, the back-and-forth with mastin was another.

If anyone reads a single one of my posts this game, make it this one.

Muffin. There is a chance you are town. You were in 169. Does this not look exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like what happened to me in that game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=400

I am not hard to win arguments against. Because I very often can't back up my actions. My stances sometimes don't make sense, and even when they do, I hardly know why I have the opinions I do.

If you really think it looks more like my tunnel on bulbafenix in 165, I can't help you. Because it doesn't. I actually won that argument because I got to make up nice-sounding reasons.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

I can't make those links work properly. But it really is worth bothering to look at them.

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing. It's seeming as though the people who normally prevent me from being a free mislynch are not interested. This bothers me, but whatever. Scum appear to have figured this out. Without them I'm little better than 2008 consistent day 1 lynch cephrir. Maybe it's not the people I think it is, but they will be on this wagon. That's not a threat, it's a promise.

I feel like the gang up on me here feels exactly like 169, and I think the people I'm fighting with are going to turn out to be scum again. Please actually think about this and make this the one time you all don't completely ignore someone posthumously if I am indeed lynched today. That is all.

This is town as fuck.

No it fucking isn't. Please don't buy that shit. The first line specifically was an appeal that's similar to ones I've made as scum in the past. The content in the post is not particularly convincing either way. It's nowhere near "town as fuck".

AP, you realize I didn't state a town read on you until after mastin/RBD started pushing you on your entrance, right?

Why didn't you?

All-in-all, Cephrir is the type of player who you have to look at the reasoning, not the wording. And his reasoning here is basically the same thing that I used to catch him in Xenogears. He's doing things that he really shouldn't be doing if he was town. Among them, his push on me. Because in Xenogears, he knew I was town and that I wasn't giving reasoning, yet he brought it up in this game as if he had never encountered it before.

IAWTP. Except that I think Cephrir can be read off of posting style. I think his scum play is similar to mine (especially in that he knows most of the ins and outs of both his scum and town games and can therefore tailor specific aspects of it to meta players) but I think there are tonal differences that distinguish his town and scum games. I'm not extremely confident I'm picking up on the right things, but I am reading him here as scum tonally - it's a different kind of vibe to the one I was getting in the hydra open and 169.

RBD's scummy as

Why do you think this? Because you've still yet to really talk about it

Today, we're lynching one of {Just Sheep Us, The Fox and The Hound, AngryPidgeon}.
RBD is going to gladiate one of the two survivors.

There's no other way the days will go.

You get no choice in who we gladiate.

RBD scumread is because they've been buddying the fuck out of mastin at every juncture, even when she's making pushes that are terribad (like the early tammy push, the CF push, etc).

That's because I have a lot of confidence in my ability to read mastin and I have a _really_ good history of reading him correctly in 100% of the games we've been in so far. I mean, granted, even when I'm scum I have to do the same thing, but thinking I'm scum because of it is about as dumb as dumb can be. If this is BRO and he read _any_ of Xenosaga, then I'm considering this a scum claim. Because he should know I do this with mastin, he's seen my approach to mastin in many games now, this should not come as a surprise to him and he should not think this means anything about my alignment (though I would argue that I don't think I'd play it the same as scum, but *shrug*)

I mean, I literally just did the same thing in the completed Xenosaga game where I read mastin as town off his opening posts and stuck with the read the entire game despite a majority disagreeing with it. And I was town there. So...? What? Am I just scum here because ~magic~?

Fast forward to your entrance, and with mastin/RBD pushing something on you as scummy that's objectively null, ESPECIALLY given that you're probably the trolliest "strong" player on site, and yeah, I'm not gonna let that shit slide.

But it's not null, and I explained why it's not null when you asked me about it. Why are you ignoring that?

Okay I actually have to finish that paper that's due in about an hour now because I was too angry at mastin/muffin to finish it last night.

It's OK. I get upset when people peg me as scum, too. :<

But, actually, I would love to talk about Xenogears, because I've been treading on fucking eggshells trying not to. Why do you think I was trying not to jump down your throat this game, it's because at first I thought you felt the same way you did in that game (i.e. "damn I see absolutely no way this can possibly be town"). I've been trying to play it off like I have substantial meta with you apart from that game but I actually pretty much don't. Anything I've claimed to know about the way you play has basically been that. You may notice that I won the argument there and came reasonably close to getting you lynched. I also scumread you in that game because I literally knew I would be jumping down your throat if I was town. And hey guess what, here I am. I know there are style issues muddying things here and I don't even give a fuck. I'm done trying to convince myself to hold back because you literally could not be scummier. For someone so concerned with how good I am at imitating my town game you sure don't seem to be considering that I was doing exactly that in Xenogears. Yet another thing that bothers me is that you would approach me in exactly the same way you did that game, with random ass scumreads. Of course I'm going to blow up on you. I really fucking hate baseless reads. It's ridiculous that you think that means anything.

All I got from this wall is that you're acknowledging mastin is playing similar to how he played as town, you're acknowledging you have absolutely no idea how to read him, but you don't care, and you aren't putting forth good reasons for thinking he's scum (rather, you're creating noise that distracts - like the above)

Except it isn't? It's the exact argument a scum-me would make to save my ass against players I know I'm caught against. Bring up weaknesses in my play (that are mostly true regardless of my alignment), bring up past games that show said weaknesses, appeal to said past games as comparisons, say "this is that, not this", and basically, appeal to aspects of my play in the current game that I specifically manipulated knowing about my own meta better than any other player.

Mastin sees it. It is, at best, a null post, but really, I think the post is exactly the sort of thing scum-Cephrir would write, so I'm leaning more towards it being a scum post than a null post.

Even if he is scum, how is it in any way more pro-town to rely entirely on the reads of an unconfirmed player than to let the game progress normally?

-b

Horrible post

How the fuck do you think mafia is played?

This is impossible to respond to. You are basically devolving into arguing that I am scum because I don't sound like scum. There is nothing I can do with that.

Firstly, I don't believe mastin was asking you to do anything with it. Secondly, it's not calling you scum because you don't look like scum; it's calling you scum because you're doing something that scum would do (selectively pick things out and pretend there are similarities to your town game and differences between this and your scum game.

This is scum confidence, it is that simple.

Do you literally know nothing about how mastin plays? Because your posting actually looks like scum confidence. Mastin's looks like mastin-posting.

muffin can fake apathy very well as scum (see 169).

Apparently not that well since I got lynched there anyway!

(But let's ignore that part)

But I don't think town muffin/nati would see the game so nearly identically.

I'm not actually sure you even know what our reads are, because Nati and I aren't even reading the game identically, let alone Mastin and I. We have some reads we agree on, and some we disagree on, and if you were following you'd know that. Just because we agree on a few key reads for similar reasons does not mean we're reading the game identically.

Further, once I've established a town read on mastin, I tend to ignore the bad pushes (because I know they are mastin-pushes rather than scum-pushes) but I don't even see the bad pushes you're talking about. What are you specifically referring to here?

Ok I would understand if you guys just had a hydra QT that you use for everything. But why did you start calling it the hydra QT, for this game

You wouldnt do that unless there was more than one QT. Its a subconscious thing. So what is this other QT you posted in for this game

This is p awful

Ceph isn't you.

I'm going to hold tight onto this read.

So is it a meta-based read, then? Or just a, "I'm going to ignore logical counter-points and say I'm right anyway because I'm a wizard!" read?

How's that not using meta working for you, oh just fine actually since this meta is not even correct

Trying to explain why I am not scum is not alignment indicative and never will be

It's not that you "explained why you're not scum" (you didn't), it's the way in which you did it that makes you scum.

And no, explaining why you're not scum isn't alignment indicative and that's not what mastin was saying, sooooooooooooooooooo YEAH

Suddenly saying "the QT.. FOR THIS GAME" means there is more than one QT and you felt the need to subconsciously specify which Nacho/Bork QT you were posting in. The one for this game. The scum QT. The OTHER GAME Qt is probably, you know, the zelda one.

This push is still p awful

Reeks of scum trying to find a "slip" to comment on

The only player in this game actually deserving of being called obvtown is Tammy.

Personally I think F-16 is almost as strongly town, but it's not "obv" or everyone would agree to it.

I don't actually think Tammy looks as obvtown as people make her out to be, but I don't have a scum read on her atm. I think the direction of a lot of her posts is pretty bad, and she's not really involved in a way that looks town, but I see some posts here and there that look kinda townish, if I squint. I'm not particularly interested in pushing her since I expect a majority of the player list is going to want to NK her at some point if she is actually town, so that'll sort itself out eventually anyway

Nati, on the other hand, seems to think she's really blatantly scum. And he's reading her based off tone or something I think? Not sure. WE HAVEN'T TALKED IN A WHILE AND I DON'T THINK HE PLANS TO READ THIS BULLSHIT

As for F-16, same deal. I think he's town but there are a lot of weird things that are putting me off calling him strongly town, and again, Nati has the exact opposite opinion here.

I didn't really like the "I feel lost so much meta I don't get" dealio. Prohawk has played in the last two tales games, and that's been the majority of the meta stuff save some more nominal things.

IAWTP and it's what specifically pinged me about Prohawk's post at that point in time. It felt like he was just trying to make up some bullshit reason for why he wasn't engaged in the game. It's similar to what I did in 169, actually, where I pretended to be overwhelmed and I really wasn't.

This game does not look like town PV btw.

IAWTP as well

Really don't get the PV town reads, especially since nothing he's doing looks to be coming from a town mindset. One thing I did as I followed the Dark Ages game is monitor PV's posting because I really wanted to be able to distinguish between his antitown town play and his scum play and one of the pointers I am using for distinguishing between the two is the sorts of analysis he does. And this game I'm not feeling a town approach to his analyses.

But can you really say this about mastin with a straight face after anything goes?

I can and I will. I said this in AOT. I said this in the Open Hydra game. Mastin makes his alignment reallllllllly fucking obvious to anyone who knows how to tell the difference between his scum and town games. I can't really help it if some people just don't have a clue how to do this, but I can say that mastin makes his alignment very, very obvious (far more than any other player I play with, IMO)

It baffles me that people can

apparently

read you but cannot read mastin. *shrug*

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

I find this reads list really fucking weird

Especially given the stuff you're saying about certain players at this point. Also I'm probably the player you have the least experience with in this player list, but you seem to have a lot of confidence in your read on me

50 shades of Christ what a scumpost.

-Beli

No, Beli, why do you do this?

I don't want to have to start calling you bellend

:<

I agree.
VOTE: MastinSSK

I don't know what it is, but I'm far more likely to join your wagon than the fox and the hound. That's for sure!

Why? What about FoxHound looks townier than Mastin?

You've seen me play as town before, right? You think I wouldn't have five solid townreads by post 450?

-FT

Was that your post or F16's? I assumed it was F16, and I do not think he'd have so many solid town reads so quickly. Did you guys discuss them and, if so, were they 5 reads you mutually agreed were solid, so much so that you were fine with, in your words, using PoE to find 4 scum in the remaining 11 players?

Also, at the time of this post (Wed April 9) I had no completed games with you, so I dunno where you were pulling this from.

I was gonna vote you before I was pinged by the Fox!

Then you really do suck at reading me!

No, I unvoted in case Tammy was actually crying.
I've always been willing to give people as much room as they'd like to talk: that doesn't mean that I still don't think they are scum.

Desp quite literally said in thread that you bought Tammy's AtE and he still thought Tammy was scum but you didn't.

I feel Muffin would be less likely to constantly troll as scum than as town, but that's not really based in any sort of evidence or reality. I still wouldn't be unhappy voting them, still reading though.

OK. Just to make this clear, what you're calling "trolling" isn't _really_ trolling since it's not like I'm being deliberately anti-town in some way, I'm just having a bit of fun with my posts. It's also not an alignment-based thing, as much as people want to insist it is, and it certainly isn't something I couldn't do as scum. Trolling would be more like what I did in the beginning of Xenosaga (especially re: Brian wagon) which

could

potentially be called anti-town (thus trolling) but even that is something I think I could get away with as scum with the right sway.

But I'm not really trolling here. There are some posts that I wrote knowing they weren't adding anything to the game (short posts with no content in them, or the Captain's Log post for example) but a majority of my posts are pretty fucking game-relevant. Why don't you have an opinion on them?

I am seeing Fox and Bro-Desp as town with Mastin/Muffin/AP scum.

Oh, goodie, I cannot wait to read the explanations for this one. Should be fucking hilarious.

Fox's reactions to the pressure on them felt incredibly genuine and most of their posting so far is relatable and makes sense. Their Disney picture presenting the Rancid vote was hilarious and natural.

This actually made me do a double-take. In what way was Cephrir's reaction to the suspicion of them natural? Instead of an actual town reaction, like I dunno, calling the fact that Mastin wasn't presenting solid reasons bullshit, or I dunno, actually giving reasons to think Mastin is scum, they're instead just going with the "create as much noise as possible and hope people don't realise that's what we're doing" routine.

I also do not believe for one second that you've never seen scum make a similar post to that "Disney picture" one. Like. Seriously? How fucking naive are you?

BRO and Desp's reads match mine very closely, I don't have a read on BRO yet but I can see eye to eye with Desp.

Since when do reads aligning make for a good reason to call someone else town? When I'm scum I specifically tailor my reads to align with other players

because

going with the flow is a good way to avoid suspicion.

Holy shit. Again. Do not believe you are this naive.

Why so much defense of FoxHound and DespBro here when what you should be doing is explaining why you think we're scum with Mastin AND AP?

That reads as town b/c it demonstrates a lack of groundedness and defined objectives that scum-AP would have (especially given that scum have day talk).

Uh, do they? Where was this stated?

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and

I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

I want this group of players to burn with fucking fire: {AP, despbro, foxhound, PV, GIF}. And I've been wanting this for a while

If you really want to try and lynch me, despbro, I'll 1v1 you tomorrow

Where did this come from?

I'm getting a little fucking tired of seeing every reads list in every game I'm in, regardless of alignment, not include me in any place except null (or possible null-scum for ~reasons~) - i mean, even when i think i'm being really fucking transparent in all of my fucking posts, apparently people have trouble reading it. OK, I get it, I've burned some people before, but it's seriously fucking annoying. If you want to know where it's coming from (even prior to 1543 ending, though I think that was partially where my frustration was coming from) it's because I don't think there's anything I could possibly do that's going to convince anyone I'm town if they simply don't want to be convinced. Which makes me apathetic as fuck. I didn't want to play this game, but Nati asked me to. I didn't want to play it because I'm over games with this player list. Not because I don't enjoy playing with you guys (in general, I have nothing against you); but because it's so fucking tiring having such a fucking high mountain to climb every time I want to get town read when I'm actually town. I'm fine with putting in that sort of effort as scum because I consider it a challenge, but as town? I don't want to have to put in mountains and mountains of effort not knowing whether I'll be successful, not knowing whether it's going to even make a difference or whether it's just going to be fucking ignored because "lol muffin could totally do that as scum". There are some things I legitimately don't think I can do as scum, and while I don't really want to talk about them in detail, I'm hoping people figure it out at some point because I'm getting fucking sick of this shit.

So yeah, when I saw the multiple reads lists in this game that didn't include my name anywhere (literally; go read every single reads list in this game and try to find my name. you can't, except for maybe one or two recently) it sapped my will. It's fucking taxing. I don't like it. I don't consider myself any harder to read than, say, a player like you, but apparently people can form town or scum reads on you easily and have difficulty putting me as anything other than null.

You realize that was probably a muffin-pretending-to-be-nati post, right?

I am both appalled and disgusted that you think I would ever do something like that

Also, all the "alt slips" bar one have been because I don't want to log into a hydra from work (so no, that wasn't me pretending to be Nati) - I was at work at the time, thus no, any RBD post then came from Nati.

IM NOT GOING TO GET LYNCHED WITH THIS ROLE AND NO IM NOT CLAIMING IT.

The two are mutually exclusive?

This could come from either alignment and I dont see why you care so much.

The way it's done makes the difference, though. And I care as much as I do because people are letting them get away with a BS point that at BEST (KEY WORD BEING "AT BEST" MEANING CAN BE AND I THINK IS WORSE!) is null.

Trying to explain why I am not scum is not alignment indicative and never will be

Again, it's the way it was done. This is something a bit difficult to describe, since it kinda ties into the magic-town stuff, about a player who either is or isn't scum. And that's part of it. A town player generally has a good idea of why they're town...but can't (or if they can, won't) point to specific things that make them town, especially not things tied to the difference/similarities between games.

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Nor scum-PV. Because there is no PV to be seen, yet, not really. PV not giving content isn't a scumtell; it's a nulltell. So it'll be easier to get a read on him after there is more content. (And if he doesn't give it, then he can be lynched. But it wouldn't be a lynched-for-being-scum; it'd be a policy-lynch, to stop dragging the game down with lack of contribution, a factor that can and has lost him games. Yet this isn't a D1 thing; this is a much later day, like at least D4, thing.)

But can you really say this about mastin with a straight face after anything goes?

He can, and can even mean most of it together, too. Problem is that he probably wouldn't be, sooooooooooooooooo, yeah.

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

These reads don't jive with your posting. Like...I should be in the 'probably town' pile as I am, but...all your posting places me in the town pile. (For that matter, I think Mac's similar.) Vice-versa for RBD. They deserve the town spot, but all your posting is saying probably-town. Red Gyarados and orc are randomly thrown in there, too.

The bits below that also feel off. The Clyton-in-rest bit in particular.

All-in-all, this reads list feels like it could come from any AP...who has posted differently. From AP as he's posted this game, this reads list feels...

off

, in an intangible way that eludes me.

Mastin wasn't a threat, she was a mislynch I thought I could get. And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids.

^Ceph's take on me last game.
Posting quickly, be back much later.

And now that I am back, I can elaborate. Basically, this is how Cephrir viewed me last game. Someone who, in spite of scumreading him, was no threat, and in fact, he thought I was mislynchable. He's got the exact same read of me this game. He doesn't think I'm a threat. He doesn't think that my scumread on him is problematic. He thinks he can actually get a lynch on me. And this attitude towards me is, again, a large part of the reason I think he's scum. (I had better wording in my head at the time, but I can't pull past-me's reasoning up.) Basically...he's playing a con game. Again. Like he was in that game. There were a multitude of comments about him being townread, and at least one or two of them were from meta if memory serves me. Because that's what he wanted them to see.

And this game, he's doing the same thing. There are a fair number of people townreading him, a LOT from meta, because that's what he wants them to see. Instead of him actually being town, he's made himself look like town. That's basically the main reason AP's scum, too, because AP's done the same damn thing. Yes. They look good, because they put effort into looking good. No, they aren't actually good. Because that wasn't their goal. They aren't aiming to be town; they're aiming to do a good job of looking town. That's my read of them, of their posting, of their situation.

IAWTP

(And I only quoted this to pad the length of this wall, lolololololol. Like I do agree with almost everything here, but yeah, didn't really need to quote this. But seriously, who the fuck is still reading this at this point? I'm pretty sure I could start ranting about penises or something at this point and nobody would even know. I think I'm going to do that, actually).

I have a penis. I'm now going to sing the penis song. It goes like this: penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis. Not a great song, but whatever, it's catchy. Once it's in your head, it stays there for a while (until it goes flaccid? HA HA I'm hilarious)

I think Mastin is about the only one who's going to catch me talking about this, and only because mastin might browse through this post looking for mentions of "mastin". But if mastin has any sense, this won't be quoted. Let other people find it.

It's conveniently about midway into my wall so I don't think anyone is going to read it. I suppose I could make very sure by drawing an ascii penis. 8====D (Not to scale). Nobody is going to see this ever, anyway. Penis, once more, for good measure

Someone did mention that it was possible I would fake this as scum and maybe it is? But I don't think it's something I would do? I don't know.

If I wasn't coming off a game where scum tried to suggest this same thing, I might be more inclined to believe this

AP is a townread for me.

Fucking blatantly lying. I know you have role information that suggests otherwise. L A FUCKING L

also lol at despbro thinking me "buddying" mastin is because im scum

gonna take that as a scum claim if bro is the one putting forth that argument

Why?
-Muffin

Because BRO's seen my approach to mastin, across multiple games. Even if he wasn't reading Xenosaga, for example, I'm sure you mentioned it to him somewhere (because you were scum reading me for a long time in that game, for much the same reason, but I shrugged it off because I know you haven't seen how I usually approach mastin). BRO on the other hand has no excuse for this. He's seen me, multiple times, read mastin off very few posts (sometimes even a single post) correctly (100% of the time). If BRO is the one trying to push the angle that it's weird for me to "buddy" mastin here, then I'm calling bullshit since it's obviously a fabricated read.

I also, in general, don't understand where their read on me is coming from, but that's another issue altogether. It would help if they explained it, but since they don't want to *shrug* I'm assuming guilty until proven innocent here

Like people start calling you suspicious and we get this "BTW IM ACTUALLY A GOOD ROLE" lobbed out for no reason.

Uh, er, um, no? I think he elaborated on that because someone specifically talked about his role possibly being useless. So uh, yeah. Not seeing where this is coming from.

Also don't really get this if you're town reading mastin (and all signs point to this being the case).

but I don't think I've ever townread muffinman so fucking hard following the series of rage posts on 47.

Well, I'm sure it's going to disappoint you when I tell you that I wasn't actually raging, it was fake rage I was experimenting with because I wanted to see if anyone would town read me for it.

Apparently it worked. So yay me, I guess?

Not that anyone is going to read this, but if they do, sorry? I am actually town but I was never angry at this game (a little frustrated that people never seem to be able to town read me, but not really). Nati said he was sorry about it in the hydra QT and I had to explain to him that I wasn't really angry. lol Nati, lol. If I were angry at you, I'd have said so in the hydra QT, thillybilly.

They're still null because I think their reasons for pushing RBD are poor, but that post was good.

Not you too, Mac,
You've been led astray!
They're not town, they're scum
Don't turn a blind eye to their play!

Just. so. many. words. to. read. through.

~Brian

HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE

If you mean the playerlist its because there are a shitload of hydras and I use my ISO like a QT thread to keep my thoughts. At some sorry point I'll have to crack through the hydra heads and look for tells, and isoing the mod+me+another player just for playerlist is a pain.

It seems far simpler to keep the names in a notepad / word document. Especially since then you don't have to keep scrolling back to the post to find out the names?

... ... ... Don't really believe you legitimately think this makes sense.

PV is totally disengaged from the game in a way that he usually isn't when he's town. There's no signs of effort. There's no signs of analysis. There's no signs of anything that he does when he's town. The way he's disengaged from the game here reminds me of how he was playing in the recently finished mafiassk large. It's the same lack of analysis. The same lack of effort. I'm pretty sure PV is scum here and I know he looks like scum in every single fucking game but this is so blindingly obvious that I don't know how others cannot see it, let alone think he's town.

I used to be "hard town". What happened?

I am pretty sure you have me confused with someone else? I have not once called you town in this game. I am pretty sure Nati hasn't either. I know I haven't called you town because at no stage of this game have I thought that anything you've posted looked like it came from a town mindset.

Since you are REALLY sticking with this, when you gladiate, if it take 8 to lynch the other guy, does it take only 7 to lynch you? Or, is your hated modifer "always on", as it it ALWAYS takes one less than normal to lynch you?

Um, two things here:

Why would I answer this question? In what possible way could it benefit you or anybody else to know this information if I haven't already deemed it fit to share.

Is knowing the answer to this question going to advance the game in any way, shape or form? Because I can't see this as anything other than role fishing, and I cannot possibly fathom how my answer to this question would do anything to change how you're viewing the game at the moment. So, uh, yeah

Basically, I refuse to answer any questions that are role-related this game; when I deem it necessary, I might share some information, but I will not answer questions about it other than on a need-to-know basis.

Oh and RBD in AP pile

massive amounts of :shifty eyes: here

(Also the only real resistance to this is coming from derps. Like F16, DespBro and FoxHound, and there's a preeeeeeeeeeettty decent chance of scum in those names sooooooooooooo yeah)

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

Not fucking like this, and town-PV probably wouldn't ask a question like this, phrased in this way

There's a severe lack of direction and analysis in your posts, PV. Sup with that?

Ok softball game to go to. Not liking Fox/Hound wagon at this point.

Why not?

I've also realized that if mastin and the rancid pirates are town then the scum team has made a deviation from my last several games from attacking me for weird reasons and are instead calling me town. (Though the attack by those two was fucking weird.). IF that's the case then I'm not sure how to distinguish right now between town recognizing me as town and scum calling me town because that's what they're supposed to do. It's fucking with my head to start looking cross eyed at people calling me town.

OK. So since I'm town and mastin is almost certainly town, if you are town, scum aren't attacking you. What are you going to do about it?

I'd rather not have to read you saying stuff like this; do something about it or don't talk about it.

OK, I don't want to kill PV anymore

Why not? What changed your mind about him? Because none of his posts prior to this one looked town at all, so I don't get where the change in the read comes from.

JSU - I have a big negative connection between them and RBD and that is probably about it.

? Does this mean you don't see us as the same alignment?

ns' activity really has been low sitewide recently from what I've seen. I'm going to wait and see what he brings to the game over the weekend I guess.

So now the weekend has come and gone, where you at with this?

'coz notscience completely disappearing is making me get all weird on him atm

I do think her gladiator strat is crap, but I don't know.

I'm actually thinking of doing a strawpoll to decide whether or not we gladiate this game.

Except I think I already know the general consensus and FUCK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS

I hate mastin's attitude towards F/H and the logical fallacy that is painting Ceph's attitude towards her lynchability as independent of gamestate. The townmastin I know is smarter than that and I don't think mastin actually believes that harseshit this game, but false face must hide what false heart doth know .

I think you're somewhat misunderstanding mastin's stance here, and since mastin's stance here is somewhat similar to mine, I don't really get it.

I also loled at the comment about town-mastin being smarter than this, but whatevs

It didn't give me quite the same level of scumvibe, but I think that's because of xenosaga. there are some parallels between ceph's reads in the early game here and his day 1 in xenosaga, but ceph is a consummate scum player. I think it's actually more of a heartfelt townie thing that scum-ceph would avoid so soon after that game.

Thing is, I don't think Cephrir really had a choice about it. A distinct change in the way he approaches his read on mastin would set off more alarm bells than the way he's done it here. So what I'm seeing here is Cephrir thinking he would be scum reading mastin and so there is the scum read. But I'm not looking at this deeply because I could see this coming from scum- or town-Ceph. What bothers me is his reasoning here and his attitude towards mastin and mastin's read on him. I say he's hiding behind a mask of thinking mastin is scummy every game because that's all I'm seeing; no analysis, no attempts to discern mastin's alignment, just a scum read and a lot of noise. And this is why I don't think Cephrir is town here.

The fact he's doing it twice in a row is only because he thinks he would do it as town. Also maybe because he thinks "lol wouldn't do it twice in a row" is a good defense. But whatever.

Key point is you shouldn't get lost in reasoning like this and should instead look at it objectively.

I would like to see town in Cephrir's posting, but I can't. And I don't see how others can.

But I feel like mastin feels, well, 'flat' (sorry to use such a loaded word after that whole thing) as scum or gets defensive or tunnels or something else opaque and distracting and doesn't really absorb the gamestate.

THIS IS KIND OF TRUE AND A GOOD WAY TO DISCERN MASTIN'S ALIGNMENT

IF MORE PEOPLE SAW HOW OBVIOUS THIS WAS, THIS GAME WOULD BE EASY PICKINGS

where the rubber met the road in the last game we played together as town, when it came to who got lynched, my reads were more accurate than yours most of the time.

What is it that I should be seeing? What should tell me that THIS time I should subsume my reads and follow yours?

I don't think you should be trusting reads blindly (though I would like it a lot if you did!) but since you're not really engaging mastin (or me, but hey, I haven't really been involved in this game to be engaged with) on why you think he's wrong and why you think you're right, you're really just doing it wrong.

I think mastin is right. I think I've explained pretty clearly where I disagree with your read and why I think you're wrong. What do you think about that? (LOL I'm still asking questions here as though anyone is still reading this post, wtf is wrong with me?)

Also don't think your reading accuracy in one game means shit. My reading accuracy in 1543 was prettttttttttty fucking shit (though that game was somewhat of an anomaly because my reads in other games lately have been pretty accurate for the most part, but *shrug* shit happens and i'm not above having really, really off games). Does that mean you're going to discount my reads this game?

And zMuffinman is someone who I generally can read well, too

:/ I'd call this bullshit, but when you call me town and scum in every game, I can't realllly argue against it.

Instead of seeing a town-AP, I'm seeing an AP-pretending-to-be-town. The actions he do vaguely look town. The words he says vaguely sound town. But how they're done, how they're said, simply...doesn't.

IAWTP x a million. AP's post have this look-kinda-maybe-townish-on-the-surface feel to them but I think that comes from being a decent player as either alignment more than anything. What I'm not seeing is town (oh God I'm going to hate myself for using this word) trajectories in the way he's approaching reads and talking to people here. For example, he seems to have you as a strong town read (or strongish? I don't know, really) on you but his posts towards you don't come from that mindset and he seems to be criticising you and wavering on you more than someone would if they were as town as he suggests his read on you is. Other reads feel kinda similar as well. I also think his approach to certain things is a little weird (the bork QT thing sticks out as a major example... as does him calling himself obvtown for his entrance)

Basically, their stances this game have been fairly off, as has their reasoning and their interactions, and how people interact with them.

Also agree with this assessment of DespBro. It's the same thing I think atm. Desp is pushing this weird angle of us being scum with AP and doing scum theatre bullshit, but I don't believe he believes that. And if he did, he'd be far more vocal about it, because he knows I could probably get away with it if I were scum. And BRO's reads just haven't made sense to me at all.

In particular, I liked how he went from having mild concerns in Post 383 towards a full-out case and vote in Post 1165

What did you like about this? Because I'd say if it was eating at him since 383, he should have done something about it far earlier than he did. Why wait 800 posts for something that is essentially just rehashing what he thought 800 posts earlier except this time with (apparently) a stronger scum read (which he drops almost immediately in favour of going back to attacking mastin)

Even more than the content, the ostentatious tone with which he cast the vote felt incredibly bold and not at all "safe" the way Mastin is portraying Fox's posting to be

I read it as playful, not bold. It's more a null thing than anything, but I'm interested in specifically why you think this is more likely town than scum.

I didn't feel like voting Muffin's slot who is one of the most difficult lynches on the site to be either safe or opportunistic (and no, being hated doesn't make him a significantly easier lynch).

You're fucking kidding me, right? Not only did I have to wade through pages of bullshit in Xenosaga of people saying the exact same thing about mollie pushing me (she was scum there, no surprise) but really? I am probably the *safest* vote for any scum player specifically BECAUSE of how hard it is to actually lynch me (and yes, I also explained this in Xenosaga). It not only gives them someone to attack over multiple day phases, because it's pretty difficult to lynch me when I'm actually town, but it's also rather easy to play on because paranoia about me isn't exactly uncommon.

Scum-mollie pushed me because (a) I was attacking her and was thus a threat, but more importantly (b) because it gave her something to do so she could look like she was being busy. Why would the same thing happening here be a town tell for someone?

As for the meta examples you provide, fucking lol. You're asserting that it feels the same as his town games, and it doesn't feel the same as his scum games, but you're not talking about why you think this. I personally don't believe he actually believed his reasons for thinking I'm scum here (SEE: HIM BACKTRACKING ON IT AND TRYING TO APPEAL TO AFTER UNVOTING SHORTLY AFTER VOTING ME). Which is what you describe as his scum meta. Go figure.

I don't give two shits if you're gonna call it "natural" sounding or something like that. You're seeing what you want to see rather than what's there, and since you haven't done a good job of explaining why it's natural, I'm going to ignore this until you do.

Yeah, there's often 1, maybe 2 scum in the lurker group, but being able to tell scum-lurk from town-lurk is a skill that exists

(a) How the fuck is this relevant to anything? You weren't saying "it's possible they're scum lurkers or town lurkers", you were directly saying my reads are shit because they're town.

(b) If you can tell the difference between scum lurk and town lurk, then explain why they're town lurking rather than scum lurking?

Also there are times when the vast majority of scum is in the lurkers. Sooooooooooo saying "how often does it happen?" means nothing. It's dependent on who's actually scum, and who's actually scum is dependent on RNG, soooooo what's your fucking point?

So are you going to disagree that saying that an entrance "100% cannot be town" is bad logic when that entrance has been used by the same player as town?

First of all, you're blatantly misrepresenting what I actually said. I not only did not say that his entrance 100% couldn't be a town entrance, but I was arguing that the way he did it and the way he talked about it weren't town - not that he hadn't done it as town in the past.

And you've yet to argue against my actual point here, so I'm just going to assume you're scum trying to look like you have an actual point here.

Since apparently RBD ain't happenin'

Mastin ain't happening either

Sorry mastin, you can't have your scumread on me and vouch for my read on you at the same time. That is really really scummy.

@mastin, this is an example of what I mean about weird interactions given his supposed read on you. If he's town reading you, a post like this shouldn't exist (unless he's not as good at reading you as he claims he is). If he's scum reading you, then why isn't he all over lynching you. And if he's null or unsure on you, then wow? Dunno why he put you in the probably town list in the first place if that's the case.

Plus I don't believe he really thinks this makes sense. I would, for example, have to read mastin as town regardless of my alignment if mastin is town, because as town I would see it and as scum I would have to pretend I see it. So yeah, my read could be trusted unless someone thinks we're scum together, regardless of what my actual alignment is.

Everything she's posted -could- be from town mastin and I'm a little disappointed in the complete lack of justifications, its like mastin coasting on being mastin at that point.

How much of mastin's posts are you actually reading?

He feels orchestrated and his reads feel fabricated; it doesn't feel like he's processing this game in an organic way without knowing people's alignments

Elaborate

'coz I get the exact opposite feeling about mastin's posts and I want to know which of mastin's reads you feel this way about

I love players that have functional policies on me for no discernible reason!

What does this mean? And/or do you think notscience is voting you for policy reasons?

I could say the same about this post. Why does it matter?

It doesn't. I was clearly joking. I don't see how you didn't get I was clearly joking given every other post of mine at the time. I don't understand why you felt the need to comment on this. I don't see how you could have possibly thought it was a serious complaint, given the obvious inherent hypocrisy. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Additionally, RBD, if you gladiate JSU tomorrow I will vote you and I will make you die.

You should see how many fucks I give. Especially since I'm going to kill you N1 so LOL DON'T GIVE ANY FUCKS AT ALL.

That leaves MastinSSK, Rancid, AP, Clyton, GIF, and PeregrineV.

Is this now your PoE list that isn't going to change despite there being

at most

3 scum in that list? That is, of course, assuming I am right about all of AP, GIF, PV being scum.

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone

He's not a particularly *strong* town read for me, but he has been a town read of sorts for a while now. Do you think he's scum or...? What was the point of this?

[PeregrineV]

Not fucking like this, and town-PV probably wouldn't ask a question like this, phrased in this way

There's a severe lack of direction and analysis in your posts, PV. Sup with that?

No, I'm genuinely interested in the answer, so no reason why specifics can't be given.

Any day1 analysis of this game of emo-posting hydras would most likely not be based on actual information, and would probably be pretty mean to boot. So, for now, I'll post things that pique my attention, and once we have confirmed alignments, we'll get more information and analysis from that.

[PeregrineV]

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

@AP- Never saw an answer to this.

:/, I think you know and its not something I can just write about without essaying.

You can bullet point it.

But Im not seeing your usual efforts to identify townies and connect/work with them. Im not seeing any attitude that suggest you rolled town (direct, but humorous).

I thought about quoting every time someone mentioned they are obvious-town and that "so-and-so can/can't read them", but then I might break the site, so suffice to say better identification will occur later.
As for humorous, I think so- I crack me up!

Your reads list pings me wrong in that it looks like something that looks good, but isn't extremely genuine given that there is nothing to back up those stances at the time.

Do you mean:

General impressions time.

?
Cause that pretty much means what it says.

And I dont get the Kagura/GIF placement in the list at all. Your explanation about the dichotomy did nothing towards explaining why you felt it in the first place.

I'm tired of linking myself, but based on my summary of Kagura's play/posting, 1591 & 1804, why should they be anything but null-scum?

Also not feeling the tiered-ness of the list in this instance and Im having a really hard time mapping your thoughts to your content which has been a bad sign for you in The Fall.

You mean another game? Not sure what you mean here.

The tiers are my rough starting point, so taking anything more from them is really not advised.

Basically just nothing you've posted is extremely insightful and it all reads fairly superficial. Dunno.

I feel that way about 95% of the posting in this game, so it's probably the environment more than the genetics.

[PeregrineV]

I guess we can do this on all the players, but see 1775. You are making very vague statements that require more work to refute than it takes you to make, very much like making someone prove a negative.

Or, maybe I should say your post was pre-answered. This pre-answer ios an example of why I disagree with this read.

This is my main issue with mastin right now. All of mastins reads are vague statements with zero backup from the realm of hard-quotes. Its really entirely 100% air. Which is something mastin is capable of as town if I close my eyes and imagine really hard, but its 100% ridiculous and quite easily scum motivated.

Mastin doesn't do this as scum.

Mastin does this in a less blatant form as town.

The current posting style makes me think Mastin is a third-party of some sort. But, they've also claimed their role, and may have modified their playing based on that role.

They may also be trying to change up their scum-play because it is so readily apparent.

Or, they may be scum WITH you, and this back-and-forth between you will only serve to town-confirm the other once one flips scum.

So, this will probably be resolved, but not Day 1 of the game.

[PeregrineV]

I'm seriously struggling to follow the thought process behind this, and in fact the reason behind all this as a whole.You've randomly targetted GiF and his townread on EHAP, and then somehow spun mastin into it, and then in the end basically went "fuck it" and thrown them both pretty much back in the cage where they came from rather than trying to sort them?

I randomly targeted Kagura and Yakumo? it was not based on 1556?

And 1591 is a reduction of all the noise posting that boils it down to the facts. And those facts are the sum total of his posting.

This puts them into the (1592) null on the sum side.

Meh- they can both go on null on scum side.

What part of this confuses you or do you object to?

Okay, by "them" do you mean Kagura and Yukari, or Yukari and mastin?

Kagura & Yukari.

Mastin I am trying to form a read on, but have conflicting signals (see 1815). Since this is day1, and I'm not feeling Mastin-scum, I have no strong desire to lynch her today. Nothing anyone else has posted has swayed me other than Mastin herself.

[PeregrineV]

This is seriously not a town-PV.

A town-PV...how do I describe it? Is analytical. This PV? This PV...is hostile. A town-PV will have snark, but not of this nature, not derogatory. Not like this. Basically, this is too aggressive, forceful, hostile, and presumptuous to be a town-PV. Admittedly, I don't have much exposure to a scum-PV, but I've seen PV in a ton of his towngames. I've seen him run the gauntlet from lurker to active scumhunter, I've seen him play from beginnings and in middles and in ends, as town, and give actual effort. I've been exposed to how he treats the game as town, and this?

Simply isn't it. There's a lack of questions. Lack of not-knowing-things. Lack of lack of knowledge, you could say. He's not guessing. He's not theorizing. He's not analyzing. He's arguing. And I've never seen that from a town-PV. Ever.

I don't feel like this is hostile or derogatory. I actually feel like Mother Theresa here.

Lack of questions? No, i've pretty much asked each one about twice.

Lack of not-knowing-things? So I'm not town because I don't know things?
Elaborate on this one.

Lack of lack of knowledge? Isn't this the opposite of of the one above?

Guessing? Educated guessing, maybe.

Theorizing? My current theory is that with 11 out of 16 hydras, that the scumteam has probably 3 of them. See this for more details: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39517

Analyzing? See 1811.

Arguing? Maybe. The garbage I'm currently seeing isn't giving me reads, so maybe a good argument will.

[PeregrineV]

OK. Good for you! But guess what? I'm only answering questions I deem necessary to answer. So I'll make you a deal here and now. For every question you ask me about my role, I'll find an interesting youtube video and post it as an answer - disclaimer: my answer may have absolutely nothing to do with your question, but I hope this doesn't matter!

Not really sure what the point of quoting all those posts is, given it's consistent with what I have already said about my role; i.e. that I will only give information that I deem necessary on a need-to-know basis.

But good work avoiding the crux of my questions to you. In what way would knowing the answer to the question you asked help the game, in any way, shape or form?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=22826

[PeregrineV]

I'm seriously struggling to follow the thought process behind this, and in fact the reason behind all this as a whole.You've randomly targetted GiF and his townread on EHAP, and then somehow spun mastin into it, and then in the end basically went "fuck it" and thrown them both pretty much back in the cage where they came from rather than trying to sort them?

I randomly targeted Kagura and Yakumo? it was not based on 1556?

And 1591 is a reduction of all the noise posting that boils it down to the facts. And those facts are the sum total of his posting.

This puts them into the (1592) null on the sum side.

Meh- they can both go on null on scum side.

What part of this confuses you or do you object to?

Okay, by "them" do you mean Kagura and Yukari, or Yukari and mastin?

Kagura & Yukari.

Mastin I am trying to form a read on, but have conflicting signals (see 1815). Since this is day1, and I'm not feeling Mastin-scum, I have no strong desire to lynch her today. Nothing anyone else has posted has swayed me other than Mastin herself.

So where does your Kagura read come into those posts you linked?

1804

[PeregrineV]

Where is this tunnel onto AP coming from? You just bee-lined for AP the instant he came into the game.

Was hoping for a spark from AP that would get the game going, at least in my eyes. Instead, he beelines towards a Mastin scumread and has now shifted into background noise. Disappointing.

[PeregrineV]

Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Cupcake and Yakuri would be the ones I'd most like to lynch. But that's less from a strong scmread and more frm a lack of townread.

[PeregrineV]

PV's the only one who will join the wagon, and that's L-2.

Meh, I might join your wagon, but not really feeling it.

[PeregrineV]

Except p5. I just said he was probably town b/c you were pushing him. I don’t have a real read there.

You were just

using me

calling me town me to

make Rancid jealous

get a reaction from Rancid?



Nah, I'm good.

Bravo.

[PeregrineV]

OK. Good for you! But guess what? I'm only answering questions I deem necessary to answer. So I'll make you a deal here and now. For every question you ask me about my role, I'll find an interesting youtube video and post it as an answer - disclaimer: my answer may have absolutely nothing to do with your question, but I hope this doesn't matter!

Not really sure what the point of quoting all those posts is, given it's consistent with what I have already said about my role; i.e. that I will only give information that I deem necessary on a need-to-know basis.

But good work avoiding the crux of my questions to you. In what way would knowing the answer to the question you asked help the game, in any way, shape or form?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5408144

There it was. I put in drafts because I didn;t have time for the rest of it.

Anyways, here are the only two gladiator roles I remember recently. One was town, one was scum.

The town one used the ability when it would be for the best. It was also, coincidentally, day-activated. I don't remember them claiming ahead of time until the ability resolved, but I could be wrong. He netted us a scumlynch that might not have gone through otherwise.

The scum one was played by Mastin (I think), so curious why he hasn't spoken up on your role any more than he has. The scum one was night activated, and took out an AP hydra.

So, of course you will understand why I ask you specifics about your role claim. How you choose to answer, is, of course, up to you.

[PeregrineV]

I'll be posting my thoughts soon. But first, I need information. What are the characteristics of a Cabd game? If I know, I can adjust my approach.

What does this mean?

[PeregrineV]

What I really, really don't want to do is turn two potential scum wagons into a deadline lurker town wagon and lynch PeregrineV. I am strongly concerned that AP and Mastin are throwing out his name in the midst of their loud argument. That is a worst possible outcome I can imagine coming out of Day 1 where we let BOTH of them slip by and lynch PV.

Thank you for that. I think.

[PeregrineV]

^ How much interest do you guys having in lynching PV?

I have zero interest in my lynch today. (Or most any other days, in most cases).

[PeregrineV]

Nacho was scum with PV in a recent game we played. Nacho is voting PV iirc. I want to talk with him about that.

For myself, I am aware I have a tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment. I'm cautious about the read.

Which game was that?

Also, you could talk to me. What part of my play are you seeing as scummy, and why?

[PeregrineV]

Also could you tell me what posts give you the impression that Kagura is town?

Kagura is voting me. Doesn't that make it autotown?

Votecount 1-20

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

PeregrineV (2): Kagura, AngryPidgeon
MastinSSK (5): CupcakePanda, Carbon Fiber, The Fox and the Hound, Yukari Yakumo, Just Sheep Us
Just Sheep Us (2): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados
AngryPidgeon (3): Lord Business, mastinSSK, Rancid Broderick Drake

Not Voting (4): Mac , PeregrineV, Titan, Breaskfast with Stalin, Clyton

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Mod note: Game has been moved over to the new private topics feature. Please also note the deadline.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV (1): Kagura
PeregrineV (1): AngryPidgeon

Because fuck you, that's why.

QFT

[PeregrineV]

The scum one was played by Mastin (I think), so curious why he hasn't spoken up on your role any more than he has. The scum one was night activated, and took out an AP hydra.

How much have you read? He has been calling RBD obvtown all game. Im not sure how much the Gladiator part of the claim factors into that, but really we shouldnt be reading someone off of a provable Gladiator claim.

p-edit: >.>, I just want you to know. That if you are scum. ITs going to be Mollie-in-Xenosaga levels of breaking my heart.

That I've read, I see nothing in Mastin's reason for finding Rancid town being based on his role.

And thanks to the Unmasked Kit scum gladiator role (provable), I'm only bringing it up because Rancid did first.

And he is now singing a new tune, and wants to claim more of his role.

How thoughtful.

[PeregrineV]

And good if the neighborhood's been outed I can post that I find CF extraordinarily town in it

-b

I noticed than while he mentioned that you were in the neighborhood that he did not mention that he had a town-read on you from it. Why do you think that is?

[PeregrineV]

Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Cupcake and Yakuri would be the ones I'd most like to lynch. But that's less from a strong scmread and more frm a lack of townread.

I expect more from you :/

What specifically?

[PeregrineV]

Ugh, I am terrible at not letting mafia interfere with rl. I kept my laptop with me in bed last night and kept posting till 5AM in the morning. I have classes and stuff to go to today and I'll re-read the last 5 or so pages tonight in detail.

I don't get why people are seeing both us and RBD as town. I strongly recommend we lynch them. I'm "if they flip town, lynch/vig us" confident.

Because AP once put two millers in a game doesn't mean it happens regularly or that the counterclaim should be dismissed. It is very, very rare.

Muffin claims he is going to flip "Sworddancer, town battleseeker" where I am claiming we will flip as "town replica."

Look at the scum role PMs on the first page. They all contain the word replica. We're a replica because our character is supposed to be one, but is somehow town in this game.

~ F-16

I was already going to vote him based on your original claim, but clarifying it like this means I won't even wait to finish reading.

Vote: Rancid

[PeregrineV]

Nacho was scum with PV in a recent game we played. Nacho is voting PV iirc. I want to talk with him about that.

For myself, I am aware I have a tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment. I'm cautious about the read.

Which game was that?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39517

Also, you could talk to me. What part of my play are you seeing as scummy, and why?

your lines of inquiry feel disjoint and lead nowhere and your stances are mush. You come perilously close to fitting the implied criteria of your lynch pool selection.

On a paradoxically town note, overall it feels like you're playing some game parallel to this one because you're usually so far out of phase with current game events. It's hard to describe.

You linked to the last completed game I was scum in.
How does that translate into "tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment"?

Actually, my one query I wanted answered the most was done so. While the answer was less than stellar, it was a very small blip on his overall town play (imo). Otherwise, I don't have very much desire to ask questions about each heads read on each other head. I focus on reasons, of which most are not articulated anyway, and anything else of interest (Rancid's fullclaimed role and refusal to answer more about it).

My stances are not strong as this point, and I'm OK with that.

I catch up as I can, but I play in more than one game, and if I come and see 5 posts since last time, I feel no need to thread-spam.

[PeregrineV]

Push me. Push PV. Sure. But Rancid's living today.

Mastin? GET IN THE HYDRA QT. Also What is your general policy on Hated claims? I mean if I thought F-16 were town, Id lynch RBD for being Hated over F-16. Fortunately, I can read F-16 correctly so Im not in that position.

This strikes me more than any of your Mastin-crap.

I'd like to see the 5 scummiest Carbon posts you can find, and why you think they are scummy.

[PeregrineV]

Okay. PV's just scum.

Rancid, AP, you want F-16 dead today, I get that.

But he can wait.

PV's just a plain simple scumbag.

Hmmm. Tell me more. Appeal to my emotions.

Oh, and 1826.

[PeregrineV]

You or Nacho?

AP is calling Kagura scum, and then votes me along with Kagura. I'm asking if Kagura is automatically town for voting me. He answered (I think).

[PeregrineV]

I thought you were asking me which game you were scum with Nacho in, which kiiinda seemed odd but w/e.

I think Nacho was scum in a hydra in the Dead Legal game.

PV, I can't think of how often I've voted you in games. Really the only game where I thought you looked really, really town was a long time ago - the amnesiac game. I feel like we have a mutual misread problem - see the Walking Dead game where you were certain we-Sangres were scum for a finished-game example.

Yeah, I thoguht for sure. But I think a lot of that was Nacho. Some of his stuff...
Beli I read his disinterest as scummy, even though it's probably not. And some of his other posting...grrr.
Ffery I generally feel ok on my reads since the amnesiac game. But, since you hydra a lot more than single player, I don't rely much on that.

I'm not sure why you're pushing me about being cautious in reading you and not just binning you in my scumpile like usual, but given our mutual past history it actually kinda pings.

Anyone that town-reads me for absolutely no reason always makes me suspicious. I'm a favorite to take far into the game because I get ignored alot, right or wrong. If I get too right, or others are more lynchable, I'll be NKed. If I stay wrong, I'm dragged to lylo where I overanalyze and/or just choose wrong.

If I get scumread for absolutely no reason, it always makes me suspicious. Right now Mastin and AP are both pushing me as some sort of compromise lynch. Which is a first in recent memory, especially day1. My most likely reason for this is because the amount of hydras in the game means that the hydra players will be more easily manipulated, since you only have to convince one head of anything. Whereas I don't buy that shit, it feels like they want me out of the way early.

Your actually one of my stronger townreads, which bothers me somewhat, but it also appears you are making an actual effort (look at your last 10 posts- they contain reasoning and thought).

[PeregrineV]

Could I get a paraphrase of the neighbor QT?
I want to get a handle on F-16's trajectory there. (Pardon, ffery.)
Like...I gather he claimed the miller bit in there, but where was it, exactly? And how did he go about it? And how he treated the players he recruited?

I'm seriously thinking this could be townVtown right now.

You're kidding, right? You are trying to figure Carbon's alignment?

[PeregrineV]

Clyton, you are confusing two alternate scenarios:

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.

2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

~ F-16

1. Except you forgot I have my own personal views that RBD is town. My vote is not on him for a reason.

2. This point in particular makes me view you as "grasping straws". It is a debate whether you care about your survival or not, because I know if you were to be town in the end, you would enact an action that would be best for the town (getting rid of the hater before LYLO). I can make an argument that we can save RBD for later and lynch a more probable scum. Except, this more probable scum to me is you, and my rationale for voting against you will most likely fall deaf onto your ears and to the ones that supports your survival for this day.

By nature of me accepting the existence of two millers in the game, I see your CC as illogical. You were clearly focusing on the miller aspect earlier; now, you are focusing on the hated aspect of RBD, something you can confront everyone with without the need for roleclaiming.

Yuo are saying he's wrong. Fine.

Now you need to convince us of Carbon's scum motivation in counterclaiming, backing it up, and pushing for Rancid's lynch.

Because you are not just arguing with Carbon, you are voting him.

[PeregrineV]

1) The most likely one: RBD is scum - lynch him.
2) The much less likely one: RBD is a hater town miller. Hater claims ought to be lynched because they give town one less lynch if they are alive anyways.

So basically, a policy lynch if he's town.

You are trying to figure Carbon's alignment?

Yes. You're not?

VOTE: PeregrineV.

He's is so clearly town and has already proven it. The fact you are still even pushing him as scum is....illogical.

[PeregrineV]

Could I get a paraphrase of the neighbor QT?
I want to get a handle on F-16's trajectory there. (Pardon, ffery.)
Like...I gather he claimed the miller bit in there, but where was it, exactly? And how did he go about it? And how he treated the players he recruited?

Still want this, btw.

My read there is waffling bigtime. Anything you can give will help.

But my PV read isn't wavering any time soon.

So through down a full-on Mastin analysis about why Rancid is town. You know, based on his play.

While you are waiting.

[PeregrineV]

Tammy, are you actually serious with the whole "I need to look over the claims" shit? I am pretty obviously town here and I am cc'ing RBD. Not sure what your confused about.

~ F-16

Serious as I can be!

Needing to look over the claims doesn't mean I suspect you, it means I want to look over the claims to see what makes sense. I'd be completely shocked if you were scum here pulling this, but that's not my point. I believe you believe he's the scum you're counterclaiming, but I'm not sure he's scum.

I don't really know why you're giving me a hard time about wanting to look back at things though. I mean some people give me a hard time for being too careful and reviewing things to make sure it all makes sense, but I don't know why you would.

Start with a Carbon + Rancid iso. Read that. For fun, throw in Stalin/Just Sheep Us.

[PeregrineV]

So through down a full-on Mastin analysis about why Rancid is town.

Mastin analysis is a paragraph worth of vague statements that have no backing.

Which I've been doing on Rancid for basically the whole day.

Rancid's own posting is plenty proof of that. But basically, he is entirely obvtown. The way he claimed was insanely town. His analysis I have followed perfectly. I've understood him, really "gotten" him. I see what they're thinking. It comes from that town mindset. There's no manipulation. (Aside from 'buddying' me.) There's simply posting good solid thoughts throughout the game. His reads have evolved organically rather than artificially, and basically, everything about the hydra is purely town. The trolling, lighthearted attitude maintained throughout the majority of the game as just one instance. He's not posting like scum fakeclaiming. He's posting like town, analyzing things.

And this is just a halfhearted defense of mine where I throw out random buzzwords. Because bluntly, I don't feel like arguing something that is entirely self-evident.

If it were self-evident, then Carbon wouldn't have felt the need to claim and Rancid wouldn't have all these votes on him.

I disagree with more of this, but I'm leaving now.

[PeregrineV]

Votecount 1-28

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

PeregrineV (4): Kagura, AngryPidgeon, MastinSSK, Mac
MastinSSK (2): CupcakePanda, Yggdra Union
Just Sheep Us (2): orcinus_theoriginal, Red Gyarados
AngryPidgeon (1): Lord Business
Rancid Broderick Drake (6): CarbonFiber, Just Sheep Us, PeregrineV, The Fox and the Hound, Clyton, Rancid Broderick Drake,

Not Voting (2): Titan, Breakfast with Stalin

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Mod note: Deadline is soon.

Did Stella/MastinSSK get her groove/vote back?

[PeregrineV]

I just, I literally don't know what to do at this point to make this obvious. The fact that even people who have played with me are still reading me wrong(GIF!!!) is just so mind-boggling.

I've played with you both. My experience:

Scum-Nati : Street Racers 2
Town-Nati: Fire Emblem

Scum-Muffin: Marketplace Mafia 3
Town-Muffin: Fire Emblem
Town-Muffin-hydra: N's Game
Scum-Muffin: Death's Diner

Results vary, since I sometimes read you both correctly and incorrectly, but since that happens in every game, not sure why you bring that up.

But, everything said by Yggdra about your response to Carbon was true.

[PeregrineV]

PV had me as scum but never voted me.

Interesting take. What posts of mine gave you this read?

[PeregrineV]

I might be back before deadline.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Lord Business

[PeregrineV]

I submitted Kagura, Carbon Fiber, Peregrine.

Carbon Fiber is town.

See, why didnt you stop me yesterday when I said I was going to submit on CF? No one did. But you do now?

So ya I didnt even submit on CF.

Im goingto wait on Kagura to get here before I real claim.

Yes, let's wait for Kagura to get here before you real-claim.

Vote: AP

[PeregrineV]

@Mastin-

it appears being scum has fried your brain. You're degenerating into in-coherency.

If AP can talk his way out of his botched fakeclaim, I'll gladly lynch you instead.

[PeregrineV]

Like. I thought about it. And there is no fucking way that CF wouldnt say jackshit when I declared intent to investigate a him, a MILLER.

So thanks for ruining his reaction to that, I still think hes just scum for declining to comment on the cop declaring intent to investigate him as a miller though. Cause thats not something a miller forgets.

He would probably think you are forgetful scum. I think by claiming MILLER it would automatically say "Hey, I will detect as not-town because I am a miller."

Once claimed, I wouldn't say jackshit either. Your investigation of me would either mean you are incompetent as a player (12,684 posts say you are not) or scum trying really hard to get me lynched.

Which do you think

I

am going to go with?

[PeregrineV]

If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And yes I got a result on Kagura.

Then you should have said you investigated him and he came back TOWN. That would make him a liar, no?

[PeregrineV]

If you guys think Im this stupid then I really REALLY cant help you.

I was hoping to catch CF in a lie about his role. And yes I got a result on Kagura.

Your lack of vote indicates you got a TOWN result on Kagura?

And your backtracking means you DID NOT investigate the three of us?

Maybe I should look at your claim again.

[PeregrineV]

@TammyTitan- it IS in his name.

[PeregrineV]

ok fuck it. wow just fuck it. im a modified cop. i never actually got sent an actual pm, just skyped the details. every night i send THREe targets. The mafia team picks ONE of those and i get an investigate on the player. cabd told me that there is no explicit timing on when i need to have the 3 submits in by over night when i asked, but said to just be fast about it to keep things moving. but im in roleblock town for the rest of the game.

also my role only works while there are more than 9 players alive at night.

Here it is.

[PeregrineV]

So, according to you, you submitted CarbonFiber, Kagura, and me, and mafia picked one of us for you to get a result on, and they selected Kagura?

[PeregrineV]

So, according to you, you submitted CarbonFiber, Kagura, and me, and mafia picked one of us for you to get a result on, and they selected Kagura?

WHAT PART OF THIS IS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND???

I DID NOT SUBMIT CF.

My bad. I misread 3483.

[PeregrineV]

Do you fuckheads seriously think I as scum would talk about claiming an inno on the FUCKING MILLER and then my entire team just rolls with it? Or Im too fucking dumb to even talk about what Id fakeclaim at night with them?

Jesus christ

See, now you are trying to twist the argument.

Would you play the "too dumb to be scum" card? Yes.

Would you play the "I'm not that dumb as scum card"? Yes.

So maybe walk us through how/why you selected the three of us.

[PeregrineV]

So maybe walk us through how/why you selected the three of us.

You are all scummy people. You say scummy things. What do you honestly expect from this line of inquiry.

And yes I'll damn well argue whatever I want. Im tired of people thinking Im some sort of idiot in games recently.

Orci was more of a lack of a better target since F-16 wasnt gonna fly, but I felt he was going to come under heat regardless so it'd be good to have him cleared if town. Im leaning towards him just being town atm though.

I'd expect that knowing that scum picks your result, you would make the most of it.

Submit 3 town, your going to get back the most obvtown.
Submit 2 town, your going to get back the most obvtown, or the most useless.
Submit 1 town, your going to get back that result.
Submit three scum, you might get back a guilty.

So, if I were you with your claimed role, I'd submit three worthless "townreads" to at least verify one of them to prevent a mislynch.

See, this is an example of "what I expect from this line of inquiry."

What were you thinking when you selected and submitted your list?

[PeregrineV]

You voted me during the 1v1 and yet didn't investigate me.

Because LB was obvious town which is why I didnt vote for him. you said he ws obvious town in your 1v1 with him. that is why i didnt vote for lb.

1052
1057
1059
1304 (Like LB's post about Rancid trolling)
1420
1434 (Sort of leaning town)
2231
2233
2308 (wont lynch Stalin, ok to lynch Lord Business)
2823

Not seeing where you reached the Lord Business=obvious town conclusion.

[PeregrineV]

Not seeing where you reached the Lord Business=obvious town conclusion.

It was during the gladiate...Like even Stalin was like "lol I guess LB IS obvious town". I dont see how I can be more clear about this.

You've totally cleared it up for me.

A single sentence made by a player clarified your read that was secretly hiding inside of you all three weeks just waiting to burst out.

I guess you owe Stalin a big thanks. Maybe buy him breakfast.

[PeregrineV]

Scum-AP missing that CF was a miller is something I wouldn't expect from AP (he's one of the few players that doesn't mix up claims/gamestates/etc). ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT CF'S MILLER STATUS WOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE SCUM QT, AS WOULD HAVE AP'S PLAN.

The all-caps part is pretty crux here. What you're trying to argue is that not only did AP botch a fakeclaim, but that 3 other members of the scum team all failed to correct him. That's not a thing that's going to happen.

Quoting this for reemphasis.

Fine, but your responsible for focusing him on the game and changing his newspaper.

Unvote.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: MastinSSK

This vote will confuse Mastin.

[PeregrineV]

See AP, this is what I don't understand. What is the rationale for a roleblocker to RB you? If it is a town RB, why RB a claimed cop? Take the chance and use the information he provides (even with fake; importance being using it as an alternative guideline) while RBing other suspects with potential kill power. Based on the kill results, there were two kills, one obviously done by scum, therefore highlighting the importance of RBing the correct target rather than someone who claimed cop. If it is a scum RB, you outright stated the mafia can choose who you will investigate. They can manipulate in many ways possible with this. There is no gain for the mafia roleblocker to RB you.

Why wouldn't a roleblocker block me? Obviously Im not speculating that I was roleblocked by town, I think scum blocked me.

There is gain for the mafia to RB me though, a result is a result. Im actually slightly awed by this role as far as the balance/setup designer in me goes in that I cant quite place just how powerful I think it is, but it DOES return hard results still. Yes the mafia has more room for working around it (by forcing me to investigate less optimal targets, basically making full guilties unlikely or just killing someone on my list) but that still forces the mafia to make suboptimal kills or conftown someone that was in a shortlist in the first place. It makes complete sense for mafia to want to stop that. You spend most of your time spec'ing on why town wouldnt want to RB me..and I agree. Why do you think scum would have no motive to do it though?

Because you have little credibility. And with your claim, scum gets to pick your result. Why waste it on you?

[PeregrineV]

Since you are interested in this evidently. Why do you think I was given Kagura to investigate over you or Orci?

3529.

Unless Kagura is a Godfather. But, you said you have no result. If you are lying, you are both scum. That, I believe, you are NOT dumb enough to try.

So they let it through because Orcinus is scum or Kagura is more obviously town than Orc.

[PeregrineV]

Because you have little credibility. And with your claim, scum gets to pick your result. Why waste it on you?

Meh. TBH I had a fit of paranoia last night that I was going to wake up to a "Kagura is town" and "Kagura, Town Something or other has been killed" and that Id feel like a dumbass.

I mean I was pretty clearly blocked last night cause I cant think of what else happened, Cabd is just wording things different than I would. I dont really know what to say other than that. I get hard investigative results with my role. Yes it is way more limited than an actual cop role in practice, but tbh when I got the role my number 1 concern with it was that the scumteam would be able to identify me easily by looking at my submissions...so I figured Id end up getting killed/blocked before long unless I was clever about that. Its still a strong role.

I can. Call Kagura town.

[PeregrineV]

Unless Kagura is a Godfather.

I realllllly hope there is no GF in this game. That would be sooo powerful for scum to have with my role running around. Like I would call BS on this setup if a GF flips.

I doubt it if the scumteam is giving you the results, and you are the cop you claim. Why bother with a GF role?

[PeregrineV]

Player Roster:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
3 Yggdra Union (giffy and pieguyn) 3 Yukari Yakumo
4 orcinus_theoriginal
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
11 Lord Business
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton
17 Mac


The Not so Living:

Spoiler: Show

Lord Business

@Yulia-

can this be updated? TIA

[PeregrineV]

Basically,
I keep thinking AP's scum but wavering.
I keep thinking PV's scum, but doubting.
I keep thinking Clyton's scum, but unsure.

All three are rotatingly my strongest scumread.
Then the weakest.
Then middle.
Then strongest.
And so on.

Orc's the only one who never leaves the scum pile, though.

I'm back here, but as I was driving, I thought of something.
I'm 90% sure AP's scum. There's a bundle-load of reasons.

Among them is the inconsistencies, like this one:

ALL THAT SAID, Im a little unsure how I fee labout them. I doubt scum would let me investigate Kagura regardless of their plan to RB me so Im guessing Kagura is more likely just town atm.

Concluding town on Kagura in spite of a lack of result,

Really mastin? Your townread on Kagura is because Nacho made some passing comment about posting in the hydra QT? That hinges on Nacho not ever using the hydra QT over a neighbor QT which I just find to be a beyond terrible assumption on your end but ok.

But doubting my own logic for thinking it, his "has a result" while not having a result, his change from miller-innocent into this, and everything around it. But his claim isn't really why I'm seeing him as scum. I thought of things as I was driving, and I simply am not seeing a plausible scumteam that doesn't include him as a member.

While I can see the town train of thought, I don't actually believe it, you could say. However, that said, I'm not voting AP right now, mainly for one reason: the Free-Thor-Mislynch card I kinda feel obligated to give him. Basically, while I'm fairly certain he's scum, the chance that he isn't is enough for me to not support his lynch today. I'll re-evaluate that tomorrow.

So what of the others?
Orc is still not leaving my scum pile.
Nor is PV, not really. Like AP, I simply don't see a scumteam, a truly plausible scumteam, that doesn't have PV on it. Like, I'm trying to see the town picture, but I'm not.
Clyton, on the other hand, I

can

see the town picture. It's...kinda weak overall. But it is possible that it exists.

And for that reason,
VOTE: PeregrineV.

If you take the fact you posted the bolded, I find the inconsistency that you did not quote 3595 to use against me a sign that you are not town.

Also, the manner in which you can continue to post while not actually scumhunting is somewhat impressive, really. I don't think you've included an original thought in any of your last 10 posts.

[PeregrineV]

Screw it, I'll call Titan conftown. And I'm eliminating Red Gyarados for the time being. (Still want more ns, though. And BS, for that matter.) And let's take Kats out for the heck of it.

You make me want to vote these people.

[PeregrineV]

Still prefer lynching PV or Clyton

BTW, found this isoing Rancid. (I'm looking for his thoughts on Yygdra.)

And ns. notscience. NOTSCIENCE.

GET YER ASS IN HERE, I KNOW YOU'RE ONLINE.

Gif, I get nacho misreading me--he has a horrid history at times, but, you, well, put pieguy on the line then. We're gonna chat, bro.

Rancid's last read on GIF was town, but I'm not seeing why, yet. And I'm not sure I will. :/

3 Yggdra Union (giffy and pieguyn) 3 Yukari Yakumo
^

Considered town

. Removed from the list. Bluntly, I've got zero read here, but unlike impostors pretending to be open, I

actually

trust others, and in this case, with me not really scumreading them, I'm trusting the townread. Their posting does look town, albeit not very helpful town.

Oh.

I never had a townread on them.

That's

why I can't remember my reasoning. Never had any.
But guh. Rancid townread them. I need to look at all the players who did townread 'em and see how much I trust that. Like, Stalin has, I know that, but I'm not sure if the reasoning was legitimate. I know DesBRO and F-16 do, but they're a bit silent on that front as to why if memory serves. There had to be others.

Oh, oh.
I guess technically, I did. Reading that bit more. I thought them vaguely town for whatever reasoning I guess.
It's moments like this I wish I did better bookkeeping and knew

who

was townreading them; I'm not sure I can track them all down.

So, you are looking up the townreads of the unflipped player instead of anything the two dead town players said?

[PeregrineV]

Other than Mastin waxing scumetic, not much is going on in the thread. Would like to hear if neighborhood activity is more informative at least.

@Carbon-

Did you neighborize another group? And who is in your first group (Yarrgarda, you, Foxhound)?

[PeregrineV]

Other than Mastin waxing scumetic, not much is going on in the thread. Would like to hear if neighborhood activity is more informative at least.

@Carbon-

Did you neighborize another group? And who is in your first group (Yarrgarda, you, Foxhound)?

He neighbourized the Xillia group, in which me and Titan are in. We are discussing this predicament as we speak.

Are you all together, or just you three?

[PeregrineV]

The day 1 neighborhood was CF, brodesp, kagura, and GiF/Yggdra

Do you feel that is a solid townbloc?

[PeregrineV]

The day 1 neighborhood was CF, brodesp, kagura, and GiF/Yggdra

Do you feel that is a solid townbloc?

Why would you ask about the neighborhood being a townbloc?

To get Breakfast with Stalin's opinion. If he thinks it's townbloc, then he thinks they are mostly town. If he thinks otherwise, then he tells me why not.

[PeregrineV]

@Breakfast-

let's talk about Red Gary as a "Pretty Town" read. You have any specifics as to why?

[PeregrineV]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

I would guess (without reading the article), that people lose interest in games based on real life and their role in the game. Is there more?

[PeregrineV]

RG dropped from top tier town due to activity and due to my feeling they've kinda disconnected from the game state.

I just read some awesome GI MD posting about how these things are terrible reasons to read people over and I agree. Reasons not actions.

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

Maybe. It's certainly not enough to cause them to slide very far scumwards. And didn't.

From what I've seen notsci doesn't usually start as strong as he did in this game as scum, though he actually did pretty well at it in the Thad's Neighborhood mini. There was a fair bit of cross-bussing between him and a scumbuddy, which gave him reasonable excuse to stay active throughout what turned out to be a game with a very apathetic town. Nati's mini normal kinda fits what I think his scum game usually looks like - some early "obvtown" posturing, buddying the players he thinks he'd buddy as town, and then the activity fades.

This game is anything but apathetic so far, so falling behind isn't lolwow or anything. Brian asked some decent questions in his catch up posts during the later part of day 1 and I stayed pretty happy with them as a result. but I don't remember him really following up on the answers to the stuff he asked about. Usually town grab a loose thread and keep pulling. So yeah, all of this could be chalked up to a fast moving game. I was thinking about the Song uPick over the night phase and notsci played what I think was his quintessential town game there. Good activity at the start that didn't totally fade out. He worked on identifying his town bloc and pushed at them to pick a direction so he could follow.

It's a stale read at this point.

You can take me back to early game. What early-game posts read as strong reasons to read Red Gyarados as town? 3-5 would suffice.

[PeregrineV]

SNIPPED

So the GI MD posting says this is a terrible reason for my read to soften?

hm.

Just saying this is absurdly shallow. People lose interest in games for any myriad of reasons. Giving them scumpoints or anything points for activity is lazy and not really addressing any motivation behind why they may lose interest.

So yes and its an easy point to make on top of that.

Maybe. It's certainly not enough to cause them to slide very far scumwards. And didn't.

From what I've seen notsci doesn't usually start as strong as he did in this game as scum, though he actually did pretty well at it in the Thad's Neighborhood mini. There was a fair bit of cross-bussing between him and a scumbuddy, which gave him reasonable excuse to stay active throughout what turned out to be a game with a very apathetic town. Nati's mini normal kinda fits what I think his scum game usually looks like - some early "obvtown" posturing, buddying the players he thinks he'd buddy as town, and then the activity fades.

This game is anything but apathetic so far, so falling behind isn't lolwow or anything. Brian asked some decent questions in his catch up posts during the later part of day 1 and I stayed pretty happy with them as a result. but I don't remember him really following up on the answers to the stuff he asked about. Usually town grab a loose thread and keep pulling. So yeah, all of this could be chalked up to a fast moving game. I was thinking about the Song uPick over the night phase and notsci played what I think was his quintessential town game there. Good activity at the start that didn't totally fade out. He worked on identifying his town bloc and pushed at them to pick a direction so he could follow.

It's a stale read at this point.

You can take me back to early game. What early-game posts read as strong reasons to read Red Gyarados as town? 3-5 would suffice.

How about talking about your RG read?

My read is more along the lines of "Who is less townish?"

Rancid was first in that list as an actual scumread. I'm glad he's gone.
Mastin is pooling around the bottom, mostly based on "She can't be this bad at the game."
RG and Cupcake are also near the bottom, as thier towniness level is zero.

As in, "remember when day1 I thought RG was scummy, but then he posted __________ and really blew my mind."
And "I was unsure about ______________, but then RG showed me ______________________."
Or pretty much anything that says "Yeah, I feel RG is town."

Because I can do that with
Carbon
FoxHound
Breakfast
Clyton
SheepUs
Lord Business
Yggdra Union (but not Yakuri)

Titan somewhat
Kagura somewhat

So, call it PoE, which I am not the biggest fan of. So, since you are hear and intelligible and a townread, I'd like to hear why RG is town, to you.

[PeregrineV]

I may be leaving abruptly at any minute. Waiting for some friends to get their asses in gear so we can do an antique store run. I'll elaborate my read with some of RG's posts, but it may be a few hours before I get it into the thread. Not because it takes much time but because I may have approx zero time. I thought we'd be taking off much earlier than now.

Anyway you can probably figure at least some posts I'll pull based on my narrative in 3749.

[PeregrineV]

I may be leaving abruptly at any minute. Waiting for some friends to get their asses in gear so we can do an antique store run. I'll elaborate my read with some of RG's posts, but it may be a few hours before I get it into the thread. Not because it takes much time but because I may have approx zero time. I thought we'd be taking off much earlier than now.

Anyway you can probably figure at least some posts I'll pull based on my narrative in 3749.

Sorry.

Didn't see this yet.

Also, everyone else is free to do the same.

[PeregrineV]

Hey, guys. Will read the thread after posting, but first? Bear with me for a bit. You're about to get a dosage of Mastin logic, but I think it might actually be Mac's logic using Cabdlogic, too.

Mac's role was a MODIFIED rolestop-bodyguard. A bodyguard dies when protecting, and a rolestopper stops all actions on a player like the JK variant alien, but allows the target to still act. This normally INCLUDES nightkills, contrary to what AP says, because again, that's how the role is defined.
Bodyguard is redundant with rolestop, normally.
Thus, the modified.
So I have a theory.

Mac's ability was to stop any scum ability on a given player. If scum killed Mac's target, Mac would die, like a bodyguard. If scum targeted Mac's target with some other ability (let's say something like rolecop or sane cop [Hey, Cabd game; it could happen]), I'm theorizing that Mac would ROLESTOP that ability...but still die.

This sounds like a frighteningly-plausible role coming from Cabd, and makes total sense to me as being a possibility. I realize there's some slight logical leaps involved, but take that a little bit further, and you get my theory:
Mac used his ability on Kagura. A scum power targeted Kagura. Mac rolestopped it, at the cost of his own life.
In the mean time, scum jan-killed Rancid. And the vig either didn't/couldn't/chose not to kill, or also killed Rancid.

Yeah, I realize it might seem like there are a LOT of assumptions in here, and it's a little bit convoluted. But in my twisted mind, it makes perfect sense.

VOTE: AngryPidgeon.

Christ almighty Scum-mastin....

Kagura is either an Asectic or something similar.

If kagura is scum with AP, then AP reports town on Kagura, unless he wants to distance from Kagura scum-flip.
Scum Kagura acts confused and doesn't know why AP got no result if AP is town. Scum Kagura does not confirm AP lack of result unless they are scum together.
Town Kagura might confirm AP result, since they know their own role. Town Kagura does not let unknown-AP die because of no-result result.
If AP is scum and got no-result on Kagura, he might report that to avoid a 1 vs 1, but he could also clear Kagura as town to buddy or confirm his role. The fact he reported a no-result means he actually probably got it.

So, either they are both scum who coordinated their results and presentations of those results, or Kagura is town and AP is an honest results-getting scum or has access to one, or Kagura is scum-avoider who doesn't want to lynch a town PR or they are both fucking town being honest but not wanting to give too much away.

Sorry guys but I think I've reached my bullshit tolerance for today.

[PeregrineV]

Kagura is either an Asectic or something similar.

That depends; I need to figure out the context of something first, though I'm not sure if I do if I should elaborate on it.

I did say it was Mastinlogic, though. What did you think Mastinlogic entailed?

Actually, I don't think it does. His exact role, unless it helps us catch scum, is not relevant. The results of his role I think helped us to deduce a town player, and the manner in which the results where presented/confirmed helped to deduce Kagura as town.

If Mastinlogic isn't going to help us catch scum, then why is it present in this game thread?

[PeregrineV]

To clarify, Nacho last posted yesterday morning saying that he thought scum was among MastinSSK, AP, Clyton, Orc, and PV. I was waiting to hear updated thoughts mostly.

Oh, btw, did you get a good read on Clyton in the neighborhood?

Just skimming for right now, but are you not in the Titan/Clyton neighborhood?

[PeregrineV]

And governor is a town role.

Bluntly, no.

I've seen a shitload of scum governors; I've not encountered a town one.

Yeah, I know they exist; the role is supposed to be alignment-null. But my experience has been scum governors. ESPECIALLY self-governing.

From a balancing point, if Orcinus is scum, then town can lynch some other scum, scum Orcinus can govern it, put 2 townie's in instead so a mislynch occurs, then night comes and another townie can die, and the scum-Orcinus-governor mislynch can't even be docced like a Nk

could

be.

Is there a reason I should think a scumrole would exist that can punish town for catching scum by not only stopping the scum-lynch but throwing a town player into it instead making it a mislynch?

Mostly for that reason I have Orcinus as not-scum. But, since I know he can actually play, he should probably come in and actually play.

[PeregrineV]

Regarding 4112- Everyone should read this.

In detail-Given the posting activity in your neighborhood, the Titan/Clyton inactivity is very bothersome. If they feel the other is town, I'd expect a report on the ideas and reads they bounced off each other. If one suspected the other, for whatever reason, I'd expect to hear that also. The fact that neither has come forward to say ANYTHING regarding their neighborhood makes me suspect both of them, when I had them both as townreads.

Noise is a very useful scum tactic, but one that is often overlooked. Mastin knows this, but claiming he is using a scum tactic to get scum to NK him is a very illogical argument. Being super-town and catching scum is a way better method to ensure scum kill you, not spamming the thread and acting like scum. And he knows this too. So, while some of his posting may seem "not-from-scum", overall it is.

Trusting reads- Other people's reads should only be a starting point for developing your own. If your reads are based solely on someone else's, then you are doing it wrong. Anyone that has played a few games knows that as town, you don't trust everyone's reads, because they could be wrong. And you don't trust scum, because they are scum. So, you really only can trust yourself, and even then you could be wrong depending on what your basing those reads on.

[PeregrineV]

If Mastin is town, then her understanding of the game state is warped by her misreading me.

But correcting that is not important to this game. Mastin is a big girl and if she's wrong, she's wrong and will learn from her mistakes. Your focus on her is pointless.

My stances right now are clearly fucked until I figure out Mastin.

No.

Part of me just wants her gone and flipped so that I can course adjust or carry on.

So vote her.

But that wish goes against my entire approach to mafia and I hate that I'm thinking that way in this game.

Your approach to mafia should include re-evaluation of your reads with each new piece of information. Is there another approach?

[PeregrineV]

I don't trust your view of the game because I feel like I'm seeing too much surface and not enough of the evolution of your thoughts, and I attribute that to your neighborhood. I can't describe it really any better than that, and the level of distrust is less because I at least agree with you on some things, and the main thing we disagree on may not be revealed during the game, so who knows which of us is right about Natimuffin.

Not sure I get this. What starting thoughts and what final thoughts are you talking about specifically?

[PeregrineV]

Also Quattro I'd love a xillia nieghborhood if there are others and falcon wants to be kind.

Day2 has started. You must not be in a neighborhood, since you request one here.

I did tell Clyton that there was too much posting yesterday and didn't know what to make of it. I didn't really read most of it though.

And here you have it.

Thank you for the neighborhood, now I need to catch up so I can be a useful neighbor

Here you are thankful for it.

Nacho was in a neighborhood I was looking for his neighborhood behavior.

Here you seem to indicate that you looked for neighborhood behavior. If you know what I'm doing, I don't get the defensiveness.

Does that mean that not only is he not sharing any freaking thoughts in thread, but he's not in the neighborhood either..

You seem not-happy that Kagura is not sharing thoughts in the first neighborhood.

not yet. Clyton and I claimed to each other. But he hasn't been around much and neither have I. I asked him what he thought of Mastin yesterday, and he said he was catching up. I haven't heard from him since.

Here is where you claim actual neighborhood activity. You also claim a full townread on Clyton.

Clyton and I haven't talked a whole bunch in the neighborhood. I have a leaning town read though.

Here you are reporting again on your nieghborhood. But now you have a weaker townread on Clyton, as he is only "leaning town".

Though Clyton did mention thinking we had a lurker, I don't know why he thought that.

You can look at the number of views and the number of unique views. That should clear that up.

Clyton and I claimed to each other, and the use of his role is compatible with his behavior. Scum will know my role if he's scum, but if that's the case it's really no big deal.

More activity reported.

This is preposterous. I have given what I've said about the neighborhood and beyond what I've said, it's none of anyone's business. And considering the way you treated your neighborhoods in marketplace 3 as secret entities, I'm really surprised you're posturing about this.

Ummmmmm. I don't even know how to respond to the first part.

In Marketplace, I neighborized both scum teams, but thankfully kept them separate. I don't recall keeping anything secret, so you can expand on what you mean here.

And to compare it to the other neighborhood, which has been in existence for two weeks longer than the one I have, at a time when both of us aren't very active in thread, and i stated at the beginning of the day I wouldn't be doing anything with mafia for a few days is silly. Not only that to suspect us both is ludicrous.

Unless you SUPER DUPER strongly townread Clyton in the main thread, then you must have gotten your read from him in the neighborhood. And with 8 real days to talk to your townread, I'm not seeing any substantial output.

They are not giving detailed reports from their neighborhoods and no one is asking them to, what is yours and mastin's fixation on mine?

Actually

the vast majority of f-16's posting there has made its way here, either verbatim or spread throughout several posts.

[PeregrineV]

Noise is a very useful scum tactic, but one that is often overlooked. Mastin knows this, but claiming she is using a scum tactic to get scum to NK him is a very illogical argument.

And we get a jump in logic here, so I'm just going to stop it there. Noise is not a scum tactic, to begin with. Noise may be a byproduct of scum tactics (typically, trolling when caught as scum), but is never the tactic itself. If anything, scum don't like noise more than town don't. This sounds weird, but let me put it to you this way.

Noise drowns out points. It drowns out content.

What if scum make good points? If their content is good?

You really think they want that good posting lost in the noise?

Fuck no they don't. They want it clear. So they keep the noise down. They focus it. Sure, if they think their content is bad, noise. Spam. Drown out the bad. But if they think they have valid points? They're going to keep the fucking noise down so that the valid points come out. And if you think that a scum me doesn't think I raise good points? If you think a scum-Rancid doesn't think they make good points? You can go straight to hell, because that goes against literally every fucking piece of evidence about our fundamental properties as scum players. (E.g. Rancid's arrogant, I know myself to be more logical as scum.)

Second of all, while I agree noise is anti-town, I never. NEVER. Would intentionally use an anti-town tactic as scum. EVER. I vowed that when I vowed not to wallpost as scum to gain an advantage. (Because wallposting as I did was anti-town. It was advantageous to a scum-me more than a town-me as a result, and I swore not to use it as a tactic.)

Third jump, my noise (while being noise) served a specific purpose; it was targeted at getting the scum players to nightkill me. That was what it revolved around. I kinda explained it, but Rancid also explained it the best; all it takes to understand is thinking like me and knowing how my mind works and what to me 'drawing the nightkill' actually involves doing. Because this?

Being super-town and catching scum is a way better method to ensure scum kill you

Is EXACTLY what I was doing, at least attempting to do.

1. No.
2. So you say. But, as scum, you would lie. So, you could be lying now.
3. So you thought the best way to use your BP status was to spam the thread? No.

PV goes back to being solid scum, btw.

See, this is town-me. The fact is that town-Mastin knows this is town-me. The fact he is scum-reading me means that this is not town-Mastin.

[PeregrineV]

Since when did you have me as a town read? I thought the last you said about me you could only somewhat see what I said as town???

1035 was my last read on you. I will update it soon, since I just finished your day2 ISO.

[PeregrineV]

Just want to point out:
PV's misunderstanding of the role working means that if PV is scum, chances of players being neighborized having been scum takes a nosedive.

All you did was link to me post to Titan. What do you think I'm misunderstanding?

[PeregrineV]

2. So you say. But, as scum, you would lie. So, you could be lying now.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.
BEST FUCKING WEAPON AS SCUM IS THE TRUTH.
I preach this.
TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
In all my scumgames.
In all my towngames, for that matter.
In basically every fucking MD thread I create.

Lying isn't pro-scum; lying is pro-stupidity.

Best weapon is not the only weapon. Saying you don't lie as scum is bullshit.

Remember my innos, and that TIP is confscum. Titus and PeregrineV are his scumbuddies.

3. So you thought the best way to use your BP status was to spam the thread?

Again a massive, MASSIVE misrep of my point. The way I thought was the best way to draw the scum's nightkill was to tick them off, to be a pain in their asses, by being up their noses, by hounding them, by bothering them, and shutting them down.

You think doing this in the game thread where this is doing all of the above to town is the best move, eh?

See, this is town-me.

Like hell it is. A town-you? A town you is logical, analytical, and sharp. Also, funny. A town-you starts out slowly but gets stronger.
A scum-you? Is full of misreps and snark. Starts out strongly and slowly lets the cracks show.

Not the best description of the difference between your townplay and your scumplay. It's a bit difficult to lock down given real-life contributors and general lurkiness vs. not-lurking in games, but it's the best description I can give.

Thank you for your entirely subjective analysis which is easy to ignore.
But, you left off the rest of my quote where if you are scum-reading me, then you must be scum, because town-Mastin knows I'm town.
Work on that for a while.

[PeregrineV]

So, pere, what you're saying is is that I have reported activity from the neighborhood. Oh you see silly me I thought your point that I hadn't reported ANYTHING from the neighborhood was you thinking I hadn't reported anything from the neighborhood. I suppose your dictionary has not anything meaning something different than mine.

I have never, not even in that quote you say I did, give a full town read on Clyton. In fact, if you read my posts you'll note the strength of my town read this far go like "would be shocked if they were scum". That's not a ringing town read endorsement for anything.

And no context nancy, I looked up how nacho behaved in tales of the abyss neighborhood to see if MASTIN'S assumptions on nachos behavior held up. Ie did he tell Bork to go to their hydra qt to discuss reads because he mistrusted his neighbors and therefore that made him town.

And yes, you did keep your neighborhood activity a secret in marketplace.

I really couldn't care what your updated read on me is. The gobbledygook you've spewed today is enough for me not to take you seriously anyway.

Like seriously I also in that quote that you cut in which "I give a full townread" I didn't actually give, I say I'm interested in something and seeing how it pans out.

I'm actually pretty weirded out over the concern about my neighborhood though the other neighborhood is of no concern, especially since "we were town reads" supposedly. If pere is scum there is more than op likely scum in that neighborhood.

You full claimed to him. He full claimed to you. You analyzed his claim.

If you didn't have a super duper mega townread on Clyton, why is the hell would you claim to him?

And same for him?

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, I am unsure about Clyton but I am strongly townreading Titan and I don't think that their neighborhood activity is alignment relevant. For one, they've only had the neighborhood starting on D2 whereas we've had the neighborhood from D1 and had lots of time to talk through things. Also, for most of the time that Titan/Clyton neighborhood has been active, Clyton was on V/LA, Tammy busy, and I don't think Arthur checked in for a long time so I wouldn't read too much into it.

I'm not, too much.

But I also looked at Tammy's iso. There is much less scumhunting or content than Tammy normally provides.

Her claimed actions seem out of tune with a town mindset.
For example, has everyone in your neighborhood claimed to each other?

There seems to be a "tunnel on Kagura" attitude shared by Mastin yet I can't seem to locate the reason Tammy is finding Kagura so scummy that any posts containing content involve screams to lynch Kagura.

So, if you can explain your townread source on TammyTitan, I'd appreciate it.

[PeregrineV]

shit took off after I fell asleep, so rewinding a bit

Who are the people that you would be willing to lynch come deadline? This is more so we don't have crazy flashwagons the day of the deadline.

This is without consulting Ffery, mind you:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton

(I do still think there's scum in my top tier town reads, but I'm not willing to act on that until I have a better idea of who it might be)

@Beli- so a sentence about why each is scum, iyo.

[PeregrineV]

Why pray tell did you have a town read on me before if I'm not providing content?

I'd be happy to claim to the entire damn thread. It makes no difference to me.

Your early game posting and general attitude seemed how you play as town, even if your overall posting level was lower. I attributed that to hydraing. You weren't a strong townread because I didn't feel the same level of town intensity I did from you before. Figured I'd revisit that further into the game.

And now it's day2, and you have an additional sucmhunting tool at your disposal (the neighborhood). And so I'm curious why your posting has stayed the same, despite having that. So I looked. And objectively, your ISO is awful in terms of scumhunting.

Why did you claim to Clyton when you don't have him as a strong townread?

[PeregrineV]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Because none of that makes any sense, especially with this:

Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda

[PeregrineV]

You know what Peregrine. I'm not going to respond to you. I've already answered the questions you're asking me. And quite frankly I feel like you're just trying to look busy. I would maybe make an effort to explain myself to you but we saw how well that turned out in the Board Game. I quite frankly don't have the time or patience to deal with your apparent inability to see that the questions you've asked have already been answered.

My ISO is awesome in terms of scumhutning, but hey baby cakes glass houses.

but in case i wasn't clear. I'D CLAIM TO THE ENTIRE DAMN THREAD. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SCUM KNOW WHAT I AM. I WAS INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

You don't have to. You just have to keep freaking out when someone asks you a question. And refuse to answer it.

Spoiler: Tammy scumhunting

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

So, I was able to read Feysal's reply to my mass-alignment claim idea, and I now see what he meant about it being terrible. So ya, I don't think we should do that.

Vote: Rang Tangler

Still not RVS. Others should vote here too.

What about Feysal's argument swayed you? In my last post before the crash, I noted that you were rather overbearing in the way you backed up your argument and countered arguments about it. You seemed completely certain your way was the right way. What changed your mind.

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you? You originally placed your real vote on him after he claimed to not have the intellectual capacity to contribute to the conversation, then offered up some possible roles based on alignment, and then claimed ambivalence on the argument but was intrigued.

How is this a scum tell?

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

I can totally grasp why people find Norman scummy, but on the other hand I am not reading him as scum, and his lynch is one that I don't see myself supporting, unless someone has a better argument for why he's scum than those that have already been presented.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Tammy has found her way onto my scum list with her recent posts. She looks to me like she is trying to be aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's attacks (just to be clear, the issue I have is with the volume of these sorts of posts coming from her, I don't actually think that doing it is necessarily scummy). For example:

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you?

You were voting Zdenek in the last thread and now you're voting AurorusVox. Did you change your mind about Zdenek?

Is there anything else you find suspicious about Shadow1 besides him changing his vote to CoolDog after getting called out for keeping his vote on Foxace while calling him town?

You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

Additionally, the fact that she is not voting reeks of unnecessarily cautious play, especially when she's been attacking Foxace. I looks as though she's checking to see if she can drum up support for the wagon before getting on.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Thank you for this. This post absolutely made my night.

Questioning people is good...it helps generate discussion and allows me to evaluate people. Interaction is good.

So, you don't have a problem with me questioning people, it's just the volume? Is there a quota I'm not supposed to exceed on this site? Am I only supposed to ask a certain number of people questions on certain days that I wasn't made aware of? I comment on what interests me or I leave it alone.

There happen to be a lot of people in this game, and a lot has interested me.

You know, I've reread the questions you quoted just to make sure, but I'm not seeing how any of them are invalid questions.

But I always find it interesting the people who try to halt others from having conversations with people.

OK...so which is it? Am I aggressively unhelpful or am I unnecessarily cautious? I really don't think you can be both at the same time.

Nope you're right...I'm not voting right now, and I won't be voting until tomorrow or Friday. I don't really care about the support I have for whomever I decide to vote for. If people disagree, they disagree. That's the nature of the game.

Actually, that entire game is an excellent example. We (town) won, and you had 465 posts the entire game. You are currently at 451 in this game. If you could answer me, which 3 posts are your single biggest contribution to advancing the gamestate?

[PeregrineV]

pedit
Why are people still talking about townslips?

I don't have ANY private topics. Period. I have QTs. Period. You can see # of unique views at the bottom. Period.

[PeregrineV]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Because none of that makes any sense, especially with this:

Breakfast With Stalin (1): CupcakePanda

Read the fucking thread.

Geezuz fucking Christ.

I have. I don't see this. I'm asking you to point out where you see it.

[PeregrineV]

pedit
Why are people still talking about townslips?

I don't have ANY private topics. Period. I have QTs. Period. You can see # of unique views at the bottom. Period.

You make me want to beat my head agains the freaking wall.

Like do you read every word or sentence in a post? This is a serious question. A really serious question.

Yes.

[PeregrineV]

Also, I don't know if I should be insulted or complimented that peregrine of all people claimed my iso is awful in terms of scum hunting.

You should stop defecating and answer the questions.

[PeregrineV]

You know what Peregrine. I'm not going to respond to you. I've already answered the questions you're asking me. And quite frankly I feel like you're just trying to look busy. I would maybe make an effort to explain myself to you but we saw how well that turned out in the Board Game. I quite frankly don't have the time or patience to deal with your apparent inability to see that the questions you've asked have already been answered.

My ISO is awesome in terms of scumhutning, but hey baby cakes glass houses.

but in case i wasn't clear. I'D CLAIM TO THE ENTIRE DAMN THREAD. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SCUM KNOW WHAT I AM. I WAS INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

You don't have to. You just have to keep freaking out when someone asks you a question. And refuse to answer it.

Spoiler: Tammy scumhunting

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

So, I was able to read Feysal's reply to my mass-alignment claim idea, and I now see what he meant about it being terrible. So ya, I don't think we should do that.

Vote: Rang Tangler

Still not RVS. Others should vote here too.

What about Feysal's argument swayed you? In my last post before the crash, I noted that you were rather overbearing in the way you backed up your argument and countered arguments about it. You seemed completely certain your way was the right way. What changed your mind.

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you? You originally placed your real vote on him after he claimed to not have the intellectual capacity to contribute to the conversation, then offered up some possible roles based on alignment, and then claimed ambivalence on the argument but was intrigued.

How is this a scum tell?

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

I can totally grasp why people find Norman scummy, but on the other hand I am not reading him as scum, and his lynch is one that I don't see myself supporting, unless someone has a better argument for why he's scum than those that have already been presented.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Tammy has found her way onto my scum list with her recent posts. She looks to me like she is trying to be aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's attacks (just to be clear, the issue I have is with the volume of these sorts of posts coming from her, I don't actually think that doing it is necessarily scummy). For example:

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you?

You were voting Zdenek in the last thread and now you're voting AurorusVox. Did you change your mind about Zdenek?

Is there anything else you find suspicious about Shadow1 besides him changing his vote to CoolDog after getting called out for keeping his vote on Foxace while calling him town?

You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

Additionally, the fact that she is not voting reeks of unnecessarily cautious play, especially when she's been attacking Foxace. I looks as though she's checking to see if she can drum up support for the wagon before getting on.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Thank you for this. This post absolutely made my night.

Questioning people is good...it helps generate discussion and allows me to evaluate people. Interaction is good.

So, you don't have a problem with me questioning people, it's just the volume? Is there a quota I'm not supposed to exceed on this site? Am I only supposed to ask a certain number of people questions on certain days that I wasn't made aware of? I comment on what interests me or I leave it alone.

There happen to be a lot of people in this game, and a lot has interested me.

You know, I've reread the questions you quoted just to make sure, but I'm not seeing how any of them are invalid questions.

But I always find it interesting the people who try to halt others from having conversations with people.

OK...so which is it? Am I aggressively unhelpful or am I unnecessarily cautious? I really don't think you can be both at the same time.

Nope you're right...I'm not voting right now, and I won't be voting until tomorrow or Friday. I don't really care about the support I have for whomever I decide to vote for. If people disagree, they disagree. That's the nature of the game.

Actually, that entire game is an excellent example. We (town) won, and you had 465 posts the entire game. You are currently at 451 in this game. If you could answer me, which 3 posts are your single biggest contribution to advancing the gamestate?

...are you literally posting an iso of mine from two freaking years ago to use as meta. Are you? Are you serious?

You're asking me stupid questions that are already answered or are such common freaking sense I have no idea why you ask them. I also have no freaking idea why I'm continuing to engage with you because conversations with you go nowhere because you either have no ability or actual desire to see where someone else is coming from that it's like talking to a brick wall. Do you remember our discussion in the Board Game? You know the role fishing one? Where I explained our thought process and motivation a million times and you still didn't get it. OH and hey guess what Porkens did misinterpret his role information which is what we were trying to solidify.

NO WAIT SERIOUSLY ARE YOU POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META AS YOUR BASIS FOR READING ME WHEN THE BOARD GAME GAME IS LESS THAN A MONTH OLD AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE ENGAGED IN THIS GAME THAN IN THAT OTHER GAME THAT JUST ENDED AND YOU'RE POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META.

FFS

ACTUALLY YES. IF YOUR META 2 YEARS AGO WAS EFFECTIVE, AND IT WAS, WHY WOULD YOU CURRENTLY CHANGE IT TO BE LESS EFFECTIVE?

AS A MATTER OF FACT

So, you don't have a problem with me questioning people, it's just the volume? Is there a quota I'm not supposed to exceed on this site? Am I only supposed to ask a certain number of people questions on certain days that I wasn't made aware of? I comment on what interests me or I leave it alone.

YOU ARE NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS. YOU'RE GETTING PISSED I'M ASKING THEM.

TELL ME HOW TO EQAUTE TAMMY-TOWN ROLE PM = TAMMY GETTING PISSED WHEN ASKED QUESTIONS. CAUSE IT'S HARD TO SEE.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: PV

[PeregrineV]

I'm almost ready to have another go at this.

It looks from these two pages like PV is scum.

-Ceph

Bring it.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine - I don't like interacting with you because you are annoying the everliving shit out of me (this I probably would have kept to myself/should have kept to myself but I'm going to stoop to your level after the defecating remark and quite frankly I'm not in the best place mentally to really think clearly so, deal). I don't like the questions you ask because they are stupid and don't go anywhere and or have already been answered like a million fucking times. Let's take the neighborhood stupidity. It's already been answered. I've already talked about the neighborhood, Falcon already saw where I was coming from, it's the most clear fucking thing in the world and yet for some unknown reason you don't fucking get it. It's just like just fucking like your role fishing accusation in the Board Games which drove me and pless so fucking insane because it was so obvious what we were doing but you kept harping on your point of view or how you were reading it and it ended up being a distraction because you don't actually read fucking shit when someone explains something to you.

So, for instance you say you haven't hear anything from the neighborhood, except then you go and point out all the times I did mention my neighborhood. No, it's not the most active neighborhood in the world. He hasn't been around a whole lot, and as I said AT THE START OF THE FUCKING DAY, neither was I or would I really be. It's really none of your business what we've talked about in the neighborhood beyond what I already fucking said in the damn thread.

You said this already, and I'm happy to wait. You've brought it up twice since then.

And I don't care about claiming when I am the role I am; I offered to claim yesterday. I don't care if scum know what I am because it REALLY DOESN'T FUCK MATTER. And, you know what? If anyone asked me to claim, I'd probably claim because I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.

I'm not pissed off at someone asking me questions, I'm annoyed at you because of the stupid questions and you know what maybe I'm still annoyed at you from the Board Game game. Sometimes I'm good about not holding onto frustrations from previous games and letting that go but right now I'm a little not quite right and things are bothering me longer than normal and I just wanted to punch you so many times during that game and you're making me feel the exact same fruking way. And I'm fucking pissed off because I've been trying like hell not to lose it in a mafia game and you're asking stupid fucking question and your attitude fucking sucks.

It's just a game. You guys lynched me, we won, Board Game is over and not germane to this game, now.
What attitude do I have? The attitude that you might be scum?
So, you think I should stop thinking you might be scum because it's making you mad?
Is that a dumb question?
Is that?

And using two year old meta is fucking stupid when you have more recent more relevant meta. And fuck you with less effective. If I recall, part of the reason why we didn't end up losing that game when half the town wanted to blindly lynch me, ffery/cabd, and aun was because of my efforts that last day before I got killed, so take your less effective and shove it up your ass. You don't know how to use meta and you shouldn't try.

Do I? You've been in hydras a long time now.
Do you think you are more effective in this game than Good v Evil?
I only use meta in the general sense. And today, looking at then and now, you are not scumhunting now, if you where scumhunting then (and you were, then). /meta

[PeregrineV]

He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

LIKE HELL I WOULD.

Know what a scum-me does when Nacho pressures me? Beg him to reconsider his read. Continue buddying as I have been buddying. Maybe throw in a bit of paranoia, if I'm going for extra townpoints, but since the plan as scum is to nightkill Nacho anyway, a scuMastin really only needs to keep the scumread off for long enough to pull that off.

THAT IS HOW I THINK.
I have a plan. I always have a plan. Said plan involves who gets lynched and who gets nightkilled. It involves keeping suspicion where I want it to be, and getting suspicion away from where I don't want it to be. THAT IS MY FUNDAMENTAL SCUM OBJECTIVE. And entering into a 1v1 fight against Nacho? IS THE POLAR FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THAT.

Nacho KNOWS this about me. That the LAST thing. I would do as scum. Is willingly. WILLINGLY. Jump into the fray and fight him. Because it would bite my ass, big time. He is scum.

Your deep in-depth knowledge of what you would do as scum and pointing out that you are doing the opposite of it negates any argument you make using that knowledge.

[PeregrineV]

the lass's words are curious
I'm gonna consult rquieux
but our vote is like gold
in the hands of the bold

Your vote sucks, and Nati would know that.

Couple of things here that really just aggrevate me, because I know you can do better to make yourself at least LOOK like town.
But no.
You begin by outright discrediting any reason for a vote that RBD has on you without actually defending yourself. But then it gets even worse, you're doing so by appealing to a head of a hydra. I'm tempted to say buddying, but no. I think it's a come back of Appeal to Authority. You're placing Nat as the only "reasonable" head of the hydra so that you can just discredit any post that they make because you could think it's not Nat.

That's an unreasonable standard to set. Those are reasons I just can't see this being a town post.

Ouch.

[PeregrineV]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

[PeregrineV]

Okay, just read the last few pages, still in the process of digesting them.

So, I wondered more than once if my view of the gamestate was horribly wrong after Mastin's post to ffery but the AoT links makes me feel that it isn't.

It is mostly because sort of resonated with me. I think Breakfast is more likely town than scum but it has been frustrating at times to see eye to eye with ffery.

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

You, des/bro, peregrine and mastin. It's just that all of you guys line of questioning is more geared to "gotcha" than it is to scumhunting. That's how it looks from the outside.

Interesting take. Since it sounds like we are saying "Tell us what you think?"

Mine specifically includes the clause "without regard to what they think of you."

I just think the way she's thinking about the game looks town, and maybe it's because she seems to be seeing the game somewhatimilarly to me. Her interaction with mastin and talk about mastin looks town. I mean I *suppose* I could be reading her wrong but I don't feel like I am. I feel like I've learned a bit from tales of vesperia and the board game where I incorrectly thought she could be scum for something like three days. She's hit some of the same notes here that she did there, and iirc she was prioritizing this game over that one when she had little time last month. I pointed out a post last night I thought was more likely a town!ffery post.

So you are saying Breakfast is town for *meta* because *meta*. Got it.

[PeregrineV]

So, I'm feeling kind of weirded out by this developing secondary arc which looks like it's positioning itself to lynch the ffery hydra. I'm not sure what to think of the people involved or the way it's coming about.

Which posts are devloping a secondary arc that looks like it's positioning itself to lynch Breakfast with Stalin?

What people are involved?

Why are they so obviously town? Who are the people that are posturing to lynch them?

Are you gearing up to waste your time looking busy tunneling on me?

No, I'm pointing out that another player is asking you the same question. And your response is who, but not why you think we are "developing a secondary arc to lynch Breakfast".
Also, you answered and didn;t tell him to go READ THE FUCKING THREAD.

You see the difference?

[PeregrineV]

Falcon - you seriously read PV as town? Really?

Like really?

And she dodges again.

Do you see the difference?

[PeregrineV]

Also also pere you're asking questions to look busy, and falcon is asking me questions to understand where I'm coming from.

See the difference?

See the difference..

It's the same question. I asked for the posts that made you think them. Other than your opinion of the player asking them, there is no difference.

[PeregrineV]

Also you're continuing to try to bait me. I hope everyone with a town read on pere takes note of what he's doing.

Baiting you into....answering questions?

For some reason, I cannot feel ashamed.

You should have a pretty good scum read on me by now pere. Why aren't you voting me?

Either your emotionally distraught over a forum mafia game with me from last month and my talking to you (via text on a page) is raising your blood pressure

or

You are caught scum getting pissed I'm even sniffing in your direction.

While I find the first so very unlikely, this is the Interweb and stranger things can be found on it. So, until I completely rule that out, you aren't full-on scum just yet.
Besides, distracting from the Mastin lynch would serve your scum-purpose very well if the 2nd is correct.

So, we'll keep watching you. And waiting.

[PeregrineV]

@Carbon-

Please ask Titan Tammy what exactly the aspects of the neighborhood does she not trust.

Why is Pie confining himself to the neighborhood? Where is he? He had a decently strong start then zippo.

And you're probably right, I don't really trust your neighborhood.

It feels like wingate mansion when empire had his neighborhood with all scum, but he was shutting down any suspicion on them because they were so town and proactive in the neighborhood. When we came to massclaim Mara even tried to assert that the neighborhood didn't need to claim. It felt like different games were being played there too because their neighborhood was so weirdly played except we only had night talk in the neighborhoods there, so it's probably making it worse here.

[PeregrineV]

I want to hear if anyone has any other thoughts before moving forward.

That's exactly what I was worried would happen with Mastin and AP making a ton of noise but neither getting lynched and lurkertown was deadline lynched instead.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Carbon Fiber

Id continue the line of questioning I started about your lack of vote and all that, but I just cant be fucked too. This vote probably wont move before deadline.

P-edit: Except you aren't doing that because I was explicitly trying to be reasonable in my catchup and you flatout ignored my questions that were rather tangible and reasonable just to blow me off and give me some shit about my wallpost that I half took-back after realizing it was in response to Titan talking about Wicked.

He thinks you are scum.

Me, I'd talk to you all sweet and nice like you convinced me you weren't scum to try and get you to out your buddies. And I might do it poorly, but other than that I'd probably not much listen to you.

Point is, trying to work with someone that thinks you're scum is hard to do, so not sure why you are trying to work with Carbon and then getting bent out of shape about it when he doesn't want to.

You're best bet to shake the scumread on you is to effectively scumhunt or just bus.

[PeregrineV]

So, question to thread at large. Anyone else from Tales of Rebirth?

I'm not from there.

[PeregrineV]

OMIGODS I just caught that "distracting from the mastin lynch" nonsense. Before I got barraged with stupid questions and baiting pere, by you, you know saying I wasn't scumhunting, I was talking to people about dun dun fun MASTIN!!!

See alternate universes. Alternate. Universes.

Tammy, what is your read on Mastin?

[PeregrineV]

Spoiler: mastin's alignment

Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town.

I'm so glad in my awful iso, you've noticed everything I've said about mastin. I'm so glad you're about to pull up everything I've said about mastin and be snarky and high and mighty about it. I'm going to be so glad to ignore it.

Last time I checked your ISO to fact check something you claimed, and then posted it, you got snarky, my townread on you diminished, you got mad, I got snarky, and now your not talking to me except to tell me how confused this game has made you.

I wouldn't dare ISO your everchanging Mastin opinion or methods of sumhunting Mastin. That would be meta from 2 weeks ago, and totally not how you are now.

So, in my game notes, I'll put down "Tammy has Mastin as null for reasons not yet researched."

Would that be accurate?

[PeregrineV]

Spoiler: mastin's alignment

Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town. Scum. Town.

I'm so glad in my awful iso, you've noticed everything I've said about mastin. I'm so glad you're about to pull up everything I've said about mastin and be snarky and high and mighty about it. I'm going to be so glad to ignore it.

Last time I checked your ISO to fact check something you claimed, and then posted it, you got snarky, my townread on you diminished, you got mad, I got snarky, and now your not talking to me except to tell me how confused this game has made you.

I wouldn't dare ISO your everchanging Mastin opinion or methods of sumhunting Mastin. That would be meta from 2 weeks ago, and totally not how you are now.

So, in my game notes, I'll put down "Tammy has Mastin as null for reasons not yet researched."

Would that be accurate?

Nope!

In order to be accurate you have to every five minutes change my opinion of mastin's alignment. So, you could write null, but in five minutes you should write town, five minutes after that write scum, rinse, lather repeat. That'd be time consuming though.

[PeregrineV]

@ PeregrineV

,

PeregrineV, I am unsure about Clyton but I am strongly townreading Titan and I don't think that their neighborhood activity is alignment relevant. For one, they've only had the neighborhood starting on D2 whereas we've had the neighborhood from D1 and had lots of time to talk through things. Also, for most of the time that Titan/Clyton neighborhood has been active, Clyton was on V/LA, Tammy busy, and I don't think Arthur checked in for a long time so I wouldn't read too much into it.

So, if you can explain your townread source on TammyTitan, I'd appreciate it.

I have been townreading Titan since D1 and it is mostly gut + feeling + meta. You seemed to have a townread too earlier so we are in agreement there. I'll address your concerns in this post.

Yes. And that was up until I did the iso to fact check.
The fact she was offended by that is not the Tammy meta I'm used to.
I gave 2 sample posts of Tammy tearing it up in Good v Evil.
I can't find any of her posts in this game that come close to doing that.
When I did the iso, I didn't see any transparency of thought like I expected.
That made me ask more questions. And just normally, not abrasively.
And she was offended again.
Net result, I'm not seeing the process of scumhunting from Tammy.

- I don't expect all neighborhoods to function the same way so I don't see anything concerning about them claiming in their neighborhood while we didn't in ours.

I consider enighborhoods a mini scumhunting venue to try to determine the alignment of the neighbors. Once you do, then you use it appropriately. Claiming when you are at L-1 or when you join a neighborhood seem like two distinct events that should not result in the same action (claiming).

- The secondary arc that Titan was referring to was about subtexts of the game rather than votes on Breakfast. For example, accusatory questioning might mean that the questioner wants to sort a scumread or is scum trying to position towards "scumreading" a player. It is more the nature of questioning directed towards Breakfast than the number of votes on them.

I feel like the questioning is "What do you think about X?" I expect it will be followed by "Why?" But other than that, I did not see the subtexts you are referring to. So I asked Tammy about them also. What posts did she see that? Maybe it's there and I need to see who is doing it, or maybe Tammy is reading it wrong. Given the spamriffic nature of this game, just going to look requires 2-6 real hours. So asking for directions to get somewhere and getting a face full of mud does not match my view of Tammy meta.

- I don't believe that not wanting to answer questions has scum motivation especially as Titan has been engaging you. I think when you asked them in an abrasive manner (you are defacating), people would be less inclined to answer them seriously. Trying a different approach would probably help more.

TO pretty much tell me I'm annoying. Which I don't care much, I hear that (and worse) all the time. Call me annoying, sure, but if

your

efforts are impeding

MY

efforts to get a read on you or someone else, I'm probably going to attribute scum motivation to that, since there isn't any reason for town to do it.

Only because I think your *actual obvious town* am I not pushing Tammy harder. Today. Probably.

[PeregrineV]

My read on PV isn't based on meta very much but I did follow Dark Age of The Law where he was scum with Nacho. He was mostly picking on low hanging fruit at that time. I was hard-scumreading CandleJack and felt PV was sort of moving in sync with him at times. I'll go back and check to see all the advice Nacho gave him just to be sure.

That was an awful game. I was scumreading my entire team but couldn't really afford to bus, ever.

Dark Age is my most recent scum game.
Fall of Gondolin most recent town game. (and Board game I replaced into-mini theme).

Old game are in sig. New games can be found by looking at my topics.

[PeregrineV]

I like his posting but there is so little of it so I wouldn't bank the game on it. What are you thinking?

He replaced Kagura. How has his posting in the neighborhood changed?

[PeregrineV]

Regarding 4448-
I never thought of it that way.
Tammy join date Jan 2012.
Good vs Evil game start Feb 2012.

Good v Evil- 26 player large theme game (28 distinct, 42 total with replacements) with 2 town and 2 scum factions, and special mechanics that inhibited town PRs from functioning.
This game- 17 player Upick large theme game (27 distinct, 29 total with replacements) with White Flag mechanic

Good v Evil - examples given, play based on first month on site
This game- Tammy is feeling lost (why?)(what does this mean?)

Spoiler: Good v Evil Tammy- transparency of thought process

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

@Greenknight - Why would scum love early policy lynches? They don't kill the ones who don't contribute/are VI's because they want them around. They nightkill the players who are actually playing the game, and leave the distractions alive to hide behind/manipulate in the end.

Because everyone on a policy lynch is essentially making the same argument, it leaves very few trails in the voting compared to a regular lynch where people have to justify why they personally think the target is scummy. Since the way in which people pursue their targets is a primary scum hunting resource, that's a lot of information lost from a town perspective at the point in the game where town has the least information.

Since you mentioned Trekker in this context, I think he is actually scummy due to the extreme non-interactivity of his posts to date and wouldn't really be a policy lynch...

Why did you feel the need to mention "when I flip town" in your argument with Zdenek? Do you think it's at all likely that you will be lynched today?

That was in response to the increasingly strange conversation I've been having with Zdenek in which his logic keeps falling apart. He first claimed that I was being aggressively unhelpful in asking the questions I was asking, which he pointed out wasn't necessarily scummy, but I was asking too many in 439. He then made the wtf claim that I was defending people by asking the questions I was asking so that I would look good in the case of their mislynch and to reduce pressure by other people. He then made an even bigger wtf claim in 485 that I was redirecting suspicion in one and getting someone else to make a case on someone so I wouldn't have to.

In 493, he said that questions have limited use and it's best to just tell people that they're being scummy. When I told him that wasn't my play style, that I ask completely straightforward questions in order to interact with people, he claimed in 570 that he would still think asking pointless questions was scummy even if I flipped town.

Never mind the fact that if I'm doing what he's accusing me of doing that my questions can not be pointless in nature. Because if I am defending someone or attempting to reduce pressure or direct suspicion or whatever other crap he's divined in my questions, they by their very nature would have a point. They cannot both be pointless and at the same time do something. So, for him to claim that they are pointless, he has to admit that they are not doing what he has accused me of.

Beyond that this sentiment is ridiculous. It prompted MoI in 656 to tell him he's either terrible town or scum to stand by the claim that he'll still consider the questions scummy even if I flip town. He tried to substantiate his logical fallacy by using as evidence a statement by LMP in 660 in which he said that just because an innocent does something, in this case word choice, it doesn't mean it's not a scum tell.

My response to him was an explanation for why his argument falls apart and why he's wrong in his thinking. I included when I flip innocent, because it was the premise for the argument anyway.

Spoiler: this game

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

Okay now that I have a quick break, I can respond.

WTF? No seriously, wtf.

I'd like for you to point out the demand, first of all, I made for one slot, not people, one slot, that I really need to be reading as town right now. Yeah, I really need to read them earlier, life will be better for me and them for me not to go onto paranoid flip outs where I'm jumping ship and begging Nati for rum and a place on their ship while I restore my sanity. I doubt very very seriously that either head of that hydra viewed my early reach out to them as me "emotionally blackmailing" them.

Okay well to start. He over explained how he lost and didn't have the password to his hydra. Those things happen, why the need for the explanation?

Then he lets us know he did, in fact, get his role pm. I'm not sure why that pinged me, but it did.

His response to CarbonFiber that if he didn't see SSK was town then he's scum because he knew SSK was town before he got his role pm. Read off.

His comment on Arthur's obvious joke and self-vote being scummy is lolwtf. Then he called my post confrontational with Nacho and Bork. I wasn't partaking in friendly banter, nor was I pretending to. I wasn't even scum hunting them in that post or being confrontational, nor was I pretending to. It was a simple request or a plea for them to make the alignment of their slot clear so I wouldn't spend my time worrying about them. That he misinterpreted that looks willful, even more so than Lord Business, who doesn't know that we play together often and so there might be a reason why I want to not have to worry about them. He was in Tales of Vesperia too, in which I mislynched Nacho due to incorrectly reading him until it was too late to do anything about it and there were several head butts between Bork's hydra and I until I recognized that they were in fact the vig who's shot I controlled.

He then says he won't even take Nacho's word for his read on me based on me saying Nacho will recognize I'm town from my first post. I don't think for one second that he disrespects Nacho's ability in mafia so much that he thinks that Nacho would be swayed by me saying he'll see I'm town from my first post and call me town if he didn't feel it. I mean you only have to look at Too Many Heads to see that Nacho would absolutely come after me if he thought I was scum. He's pretty much the second best person able to read me on this site, and sure I can fool him sometimes for a little while, but it's not from me saying he'll read me as town from my first post. He'll read me as town from my first post because he'll probably recognize the tone there and he'll just be even more convinced as the game goes on. And I don't believe for one second that he actually believes my first post was emotional blackmail. He's played in enough games with me, as town and as scum, to not even entertain that. So, it's complete BS.

His reads don't feel real.

MAC - He doesn't feel like he's actually trying to figure out the game though he feels like he's posturing the game. The reason why I said it's not omgus because in the last game, in which he was in!, the entire scum team came after me and when I identified their motivations as scum motivation they discredited me by saying that I was just omgusing.

AND you were in Attack on Titan AND Too Many Heads. Muffin can't really read me. He's the one who became less convinced I was scum in Too Many Heads while Nati was convinced I was scum. In Attack on Titan when Muffin was scum hunting me in the neighborhood and we got into our fight, Nati replaced in saw our interactions and declared me confirmed town and claimed we were now masons.

You're appealing to buzzword. If that was Nati to actually draw a link to a game in which he read me correctly and ignoring every reason why I'm town here is appalling. If that's a muffin vote, then okay, muffin can't really read me. But Nati can.

I never said one head is reasonable; I didn't make any qualifications for either head other than the Nati head can read me and the muffin head can't.

@Tammy, I read your ISO more closely. I actually think you are pretty town now. So, the reason I didn't initially have a strong townread was that your post 53 felt a little aggressive because I assume Nacho would probably town himself up regardless but I do like the follow up in 74 asking ffery what she thought of Bork. I like the suspicion of me as well since you never read me wrong before, I assumed scum-you would townread me to keep it consistent. Post 126 looked really town as well and 129 mirrored my thoughts and the rest of your ISO feels town as well. My mistake.

What do you think of NotScience's posts so far?

~ F-16

Are you and mastin writing from the same play book? There's just no way that can be read as aggressive. I don't see how you thought that. I think I prefer the emotional blackmail accusation because that at least gets to how I felt when I wrote that post. Why would you think that nacho would town himself up right away and why were you just writing nacho off as town before either head had posted? You know that I'm pretty decent at reading nacho, though I read him wrong for a bit recently when I should have recognized he was town. I just don't see how people who know me and know how I approach mafia don't see that as a plea for people I need to have sorted. What I find as somewhat amusing is the people I directed that post to, the people who it was written for, didn't have a problem with it but other people are like ohyoudint! And nacho who can read me better than almost anyone else on this site didn't see anything wrong with it and nacho would love to catch me and lynch me if I were scum, so I'm just kinda thrown here.

I just don't know what to think of you now. I expected you to pose some questions to me and try to figure out my alignment, not read my iso and go "my bad". It feels like appeasement. I might just need to take a step back though, I feel like I've already been kicked off balance and it feels like it was done on purpose again.

I have an early townread on notscience. I liked a whole lot that he wanted to sort me early. His aggressiveness and stance that he's obvtown fits his town games that I'm aware of. Unless he's changed his scum meta it's not so aggressive and involved. I also liked Brian skies post.

In my opinion, Tammy the new player was much easier to see her hunting for scum, whereas this Tammy has a new style that is less easier to see her hunting for scum.

That was hard to type, but should be considered "nice" or at least neutral.

[PeregrineV]

peregrine do you remember the standard you wanted to hold me/cabd to in the board game mini? It was a fairly recent game, but even over short periods players have variabiity in their effectiveness in any role.

I know this, and try to allow for it. If I can see how you think, then I can get a read, even if I disagree with yours. When that is denied me, then I ask "why?"

[PeregrineV]

I like his posting but there is so little of it so I wouldn't bank the game on it. What are you thinking?

He replaced Kagura. How has his posting in the neighborhood changed?

I know. Nacho's posting even in the hydra was very sparse.

He didn't post a lot in the neighborhood more than a few passing comments. Most of his analysis was in-thread. He did post a list of reads a long while ago D1 but they are probably outdated.

Ahh. I thought they stayed open (as in you guys could talk now), but guessing not.

*sigh*

[PeregrineV]

This game is white flag?

No my confusion. There are 4 mafia and 13 town, and no special mechanics whatsoever aside from those provided by roles.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, no the neighborhood is still open and we can talk now. I'm saying Nacho's posting was sporadic. I didn't initially like his posts but townread him due to Bork but I like his most recent ones in thread.

Got it.

[PeregrineV]

@Nacho-

Would like to see a summary of your current reads along with a brief reason for each.

Also, thoughts on the neighborhood you are in.

[PeregrineV]

@Carbon-

Also going to look back at your Cupcake=town reason. Because, yeah.

[PeregrineV]

@Carbon-

Also going to look back at your Cupcake=town reason. Because, yeah.

OK found it.

Okay, so I read the wall (skimmed a few parts), I am not going to do a piece by piece response of everything in it although I'll post general thoughts on stuff that's useful.

Explanation of my read on Cupcake for PeregrineV

:

Here's the baseline I have for Katsuki (Cupcake) as scum: Katsuki is very good at predicting the ebb and flow of wagons. He can generally tell when a wagon takes off and when it won't. For the most part, he knows where the town herd will go before it actually happens. It is a useful skill as scum and Katsuki as scum is known to go with the flow or precede the flow if he can predict it. See Anything Goes which you were in for example. I also have played a game with Katsuki as scum (Death Note) where I noticed the same tendencies.

His play here is far away from his scum play and actually matches the against the grain nature of his town play. I'd expect scum-Cupcake to vote us, or the Fox and the Hound at various points but he doesn't. He resolutely stayed on MastinSSK for the entire time despite signs of the movement of the town herd in various directions. I didn't want to reveal this at first because if he was scum, I'd rather he not know how I was reading him until I got enough data to make a determination. It is nearly the end of D1 and I am confident at this point that he is showing no inclination to move with the herd (arguably, his vote is in Mastin who was at times the biggest wagon BUT he kept his vote on Mastin when lots of people townread him and other wagons were popping). He is playing

nothing

like he was in Anything Goes, do you agree?

My "scum are among" group isn't a list of players that I am scumreading but rather a list of players that I wasn't townreading. Leftovers. Null and scum reads. All POE'd from my town pile. I at first didn't want to add Katsuki to my town pile because I had too little info. But now I am happy to do it. And yeah, he didn't post anything other than trolly stuff but it was more of the lack of opportunistic wagon hopping that has him as town. I had a feeling he was town even towards the beginning but it wasn't strong and I was holding off waiting to see if he does anything scummy. He didn't.

~ F-16

Perhaps you can offer a word to CupcakePanda that if hydras aren't his thing, another player may be better suited for the position he currently occupies.

[PeregrineV]

Regarding 4448-
I never thought of it that way.
Tammy join date Jan 2012.
Good vs Evil game start Feb 2012.

Good v Evil- 26 player large theme game (28 distinct, 42 total with replacements) with 2 town and 2 scum factions, and special mechanics that inhibited town PRs from functioning.
This game- 17 player Upick large theme game (27 distinct, 29 total with replacements) with White Flag mechanic

Good v Evil - examples given, play based on first month on site
This game- Tammy is feeling lost (why?)(what does this mean?)

Spoiler: Good v Evil Tammy- transparency of thought process

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

@Greenknight - Why would scum love early policy lynches? They don't kill the ones who don't contribute/are VI's because they want them around. They nightkill the players who are actually playing the game, and leave the distractions alive to hide behind/manipulate in the end.

Because everyone on a policy lynch is essentially making the same argument, it leaves very few trails in the voting compared to a regular lynch where people have to justify why they personally think the target is scummy. Since the way in which people pursue their targets is a primary scum hunting resource, that's a lot of information lost from a town perspective at the point in the game where town has the least information.

Since you mentioned Trekker in this context, I think he is actually scummy due to the extreme non-interactivity of his posts to date and wouldn't really be a policy lynch...

Why did you feel the need to mention "when I flip town" in your argument with Zdenek? Do you think it's at all likely that you will be lynched today?

That was in response to the increasingly strange conversation I've been having with Zdenek in which his logic keeps falling apart. He first claimed that I was being aggressively unhelpful in asking the questions I was asking, which he pointed out wasn't necessarily scummy, but I was asking too many in 439. He then made the wtf claim that I was defending people by asking the questions I was asking so that I would look good in the case of their mislynch and to reduce pressure by other people. He then made an even bigger wtf claim in 485 that I was redirecting suspicion in one and getting someone else to make a case on someone so I wouldn't have to.

In 493, he said that questions have limited use and it's best to just tell people that they're being scummy. When I told him that wasn't my play style, that I ask completely straightforward questions in order to interact with people, he claimed in 570 that he would still think asking pointless questions was scummy even if I flipped town.

Never mind the fact that if I'm doing what he's accusing me of doing that my questions can not be pointless in nature. Because if I am defending someone or attempting to reduce pressure or direct suspicion or whatever other crap he's divined in my questions, they by their very nature would have a point. They cannot both be pointless and at the same time do something. So, for him to claim that they are pointless, he has to admit that they are not doing what he has accused me of.

Beyond that this sentiment is ridiculous. It prompted MoI in 656 to tell him he's either terrible town or scum to stand by the claim that he'll still consider the questions scummy even if I flip town. He tried to substantiate his logical fallacy by using as evidence a statement by LMP in 660 in which he said that just because an innocent does something, in this case word choice, it doesn't mean it's not a scum tell.

My response to him was an explanation for why his argument falls apart and why he's wrong in his thinking. I included when I flip innocent, because it was the premise for the argument anyway.

Spoiler: this game

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

Okay now that I have a quick break, I can respond.

WTF? No seriously, wtf.

I'd like for you to point out the demand, first of all, I made for one slot, not people, one slot, that I really need to be reading as town right now. Yeah, I really need to read them earlier, life will be better for me and them for me not to go onto paranoid flip outs where I'm jumping ship and begging Nati for rum and a place on their ship while I restore my sanity. I doubt very very seriously that either head of that hydra viewed my early reach out to them as me "emotionally blackmailing" them.

Okay well to start. He over explained how he lost and didn't have the password to his hydra. Those things happen, why the need for the explanation?

Then he lets us know he did, in fact, get his role pm. I'm not sure why that pinged me, but it did.

His response to CarbonFiber that if he didn't see SSK was town then he's scum because he knew SSK was town before he got his role pm. Read off.

His comment on Arthur's obvious joke and self-vote being scummy is lolwtf. Then he called my post confrontational with Nacho and Bork. I wasn't partaking in friendly banter, nor was I pretending to. I wasn't even scum hunting them in that post or being confrontational, nor was I pretending to. It was a simple request or a plea for them to make the alignment of their slot clear so I wouldn't spend my time worrying about them. That he misinterpreted that looks willful, even more so than Lord Business, who doesn't know that we play together often and so there might be a reason why I want to not have to worry about them. He was in Tales of Vesperia too, in which I mislynched Nacho due to incorrectly reading him until it was too late to do anything about it and there were several head butts between Bork's hydra and I until I recognized that they were in fact the vig who's shot I controlled.

He then says he won't even take Nacho's word for his read on me based on me saying Nacho will recognize I'm town from my first post. I don't think for one second that he disrespects Nacho's ability in mafia so much that he thinks that Nacho would be swayed by me saying he'll see I'm town from my first post and call me town if he didn't feel it. I mean you only have to look at Too Many Heads to see that Nacho would absolutely come after me if he thought I was scum. He's pretty much the second best person able to read me on this site, and sure I can fool him sometimes for a little while, but it's not from me saying he'll read me as town from my first post. He'll read me as town from my first post because he'll probably recognize the tone there and he'll just be even more convinced as the game goes on. And I don't believe for one second that he actually believes my first post was emotional blackmail. He's played in enough games with me, as town and as scum, to not even entertain that. So, it's complete BS.

His reads don't feel real.

MAC - He doesn't feel like he's actually trying to figure out the game though he feels like he's posturing the game. The reason why I said it's not omgus because in the last game, in which he was in!, the entire scum team came after me and when I identified their motivations as scum motivation they discredited me by saying that I was just omgusing.

AND you were in Attack on Titan AND Too Many Heads. Muffin can't really read me. He's the one who became less convinced I was scum in Too Many Heads while Nati was convinced I was scum. In Attack on Titan when Muffin was scum hunting me in the neighborhood and we got into our fight, Nati replaced in saw our interactions and declared me confirmed town and claimed we were now masons.

You're appealing to buzzword. If that was Nati to actually draw a link to a game in which he read me correctly and ignoring every reason why I'm town here is appalling. If that's a muffin vote, then okay, muffin can't really read me. But Nati can.

I never said one head is reasonable; I didn't make any qualifications for either head other than the Nati head can read me and the muffin head can't.

@Tammy, I read your ISO more closely. I actually think you are pretty town now. So, the reason I didn't initially have a strong townread was that your post 53 felt a little aggressive because I assume Nacho would probably town himself up regardless but I do like the follow up in 74 asking ffery what she thought of Bork. I like the suspicion of me as well since you never read me wrong before, I assumed scum-you would townread me to keep it consistent. Post 126 looked really town as well and 129 mirrored my thoughts and the rest of your ISO feels town as well. My mistake.

What do you think of NotScience's posts so far?

~ F-16

Are you and mastin writing from the same play book? There's just no way that can be read as aggressive. I don't see how you thought that. I think I prefer the emotional blackmail accusation because that at least gets to how I felt when I wrote that post. Why would you think that nacho would town himself up right away and why were you just writing nacho off as town before either head had posted? You know that I'm pretty decent at reading nacho, though I read him wrong for a bit recently when I should have recognized he was town. I just don't see how people who know me and know how I approach mafia don't see that as a plea for people I need to have sorted. What I find as somewhat amusing is the people I directed that post to, the people who it was written for, didn't have a problem with it but other people are like ohyoudint! And nacho who can read me better than almost anyone else on this site didn't see anything wrong with it and nacho would love to catch me and lynch me if I were scum, so I'm just kinda thrown here.

I just don't know what to think of you now. I expected you to pose some questions to me and try to figure out my alignment, not read my iso and go "my bad". It feels like appeasement. I might just need to take a step back though, I feel like I've already been kicked off balance and it feels like it was done on purpose again.

I have an early townread on notscience. I liked a whole lot that he wanted to sort me early. His aggressiveness and stance that he's obvtown fits his town games that I'm aware of. Unless he's changed his scum meta it's not so aggressive and involved. I also liked Brian skies post.

In my opinion, Tammy the new player was much easier to see her hunting for scum, whereas this Tammy has a new style that is less easier to see her hunting for scum.

That was hard to type, but should be considered "nice" or at least neutral.

Why are you acting like you haven't consistently played with me over the course of the past two years? Why are you acting like you played with me in GvE, stopped playing, and suddenly started in this game?

Because from where I'm standing, you've seen the various iterations of my play, and you're acting as if you haven't. I can't figure out why that is.

What I can figure out is that you know, from the experience you damn well have, that needling me results in good distractions, and it feels to me like you're feeding that.

We haven't. We had a few early games together, then sporadic ones, but I don't think you've been out of a hydra in over a year (at least in a game with me). That means I can't count those without devoting more time than I have to deciphering your play from the other head.

The last hydra game I townread your hydra (Waffles Somethington) and you turned out to be scum. My bad, I'll stick to less playstyle, more content-based.

No, you've pretty much said it's just you, so I'm looking for just-Tammy play, not hydra-head Tammy play. And I'm looking for just-Tammy content as well as town-just-Tammy playstyle (transparency of thought process in the sumhunting process).

[PeregrineV]

Peregrinnies - why were you surprised at me being snarky???

There's no reason for it. I'm asking questions because I want answers. You know that, why would town-you snark on me?

[PeregrineV]

So we didn't play heroes of comedy together?
marketplace 2?
hpatpl?
marketplace 3?
board games?
gundam seed?
holy shit if you remember me from anything goes and have anything approximating a scum read on me here you really really really don't know how to meta at all and should stop?

I mean because then you should at least understand my playstyle varies and not be just comparing it to some two-year old game.

marketplace 2 I already noticed a difference that threw me off: 1832 1909 2661-

" I think part of my issue with pere is kind of self absorbed as I can't see why he'd have me as null with the need to do further meta research when we've played a few games together and he's seen me as scum and town. I don't think I've been overly active this game and shining brightly like a beacon of innocence though but it still kinda reads off."

At this point you were picking up the whole "How someone reads me determines how I read them" thing.
But we worked through it.

HPATPL- You were SK. But even after you admitted it, I could see your town mindset scumhunting (you shot scum). That was one reason I was OK with leashing you. 1639

Marketplace 3 You were a hydra.

Board Games- You were a hydra

Gundam Seed (hydra) 370

[PeregrineV]

Peregrinnies - why were you surprised at me being snarky???

There's no reason for it. I'm asking questions because I want answers. You know that, why would town-you snark on me?

I already answered this. and this is why discussing things with you is a complete waste of time and is problematic because you don't fucking listen when anyone tells you anything. You annoyed me. You're first very first accusation was woefully incorrect. I pointed it out because it was not only completely incorrect but fucking stupid. You acted all high and mighty by going all gotcha by posting everything I had mentioned about the neighborhood when congratufuckinglations I had mentinoned the neighborhood more than fucking once though you said I didn't. You continued to ask me stupid fucking questions.

You are reminding me of hte board game when you asked the most moronic questions ever regarding our "role fishing" and refused to actually accept our answers.

This is a repeating fucking theme in every fucking game. If you could just for once fucking listen to a goddamn answer someone gives you.

you know what. i'm stepping away.

OHM. OHM. OHM.

Maybe I'll come back this.

[PeregrineV]

I want to talk to someone about Clyton. He is the nullest of null-reads to me.

The start of my town-read on him came from 2208.

From there, his posts seem more townish than scum, especially given the state of *other* gameposts.

I can go back through and read again, but since he's not here to answer stuff it'll just be my opinions.

[PeregrineV]

So just skim/read the first 70 posts of Clyton, and I remember why I have him as town. It's probably because you can see what and why he's thinking it, because he tells you.

Let me know if you need specifics, or have specific questions.

[PeregrineV]

Yuo are saying he's wrong. Fine.

Now you need to convince us of Carbon's scum motivation in counterclaiming, backing it up, and pushing for Rancid's lynch.

Because you are not just arguing with Carbon, you are voting him.

PV: Why didn't you comment on that Clyton post at the time? At first I thought oyu might be behind, but it looks like you were caught-up-ish and your only response to Clyton or reference to Clyton was this.

Just not feeling you thought he was super town.

Oh and clicking that link brought me back to all the Replica CC nonsense which makes me want to lynch CF again >.>

On the Clyton 2208? Because The Carbon claim and Clyton response, I didn't look at the sample scum PM. Never had any reason to, but the fact Carbon mentioned replica like it was important and Clyton also brough up replica made me go read the sample PM. And sure enough, scum is supposed to be replicas. That strengthened my liking of Carbon's claim, my scumread of Rancid, that Clyton was probably town, because scum know they are replicas and have no need to question the claim. I had liked Clyton's early posting too (1035), but that was also not concrete, just that he posted his thoughts and you could see them.

Do you have any Clyton posts you have questions about? Or do you want a fuller reads evolution?

[PeregrineV]

On the Clyton 2208? Because The Carbon claim and Clyton response, I didn't look at the sample scum PM. Never had any reason to, but the fact Carbon mentioned replica like it was important and Clyton also brough up replica made me go read the sample PM.

Err. When exactly did you go read the sample PM? Right after the Clyton post?

Yes.

[PeregrineV]

Something I will say here, though.
Is that I'm really, really sick.

Really freakin' sick.
Of people saying that they know what my scumgame is.
Without focusing on what actually drives my scumgame.

I say this with all love Mastin, but in the games, I don't really care. I care more about figuring out IF you are scum.
But, would love to see an MD thread titled "The Driving Forces Behind Mastin's Scumgame- 2014 Edition".

[PeregrineV]

I need a quick reference but can someone give me a good meta analysis on Cupcake and why he is Town/Scum in this game as a result of that reference post? Could be in this game or elsewhere.

Someone else with more time can do this, but the general gist is that if he puts forth any effort at all, he's probably scum.

As town, he votes but doesn't really scumhunt. As scum, well, he's scum.

Scum in Aircraft Madness (large theme)
Town in Bipolar (mini theme)

[PeregrineV]

AP: Your (Actual, no BS) investigate target in your next post with the result you got.

You and I was explicitly told that my role failed.

Pretty sure this is a heavy implication that both of you should be aware of your investigation result.

Pretty sure AP is not the world's biggest grammarian.

Read it as

You, and I was explicitly told that my role failed.

[PeregrineV]

So we didn't play heroes of comedy together?
marketplace 2?
hpatpl?
marketplace 3?
board games?
gundam seed?
holy shit if you remember me from anything goes and have anything approximating a scum read on me here you really really really don't know how to meta at all and should stop?

I mean because then you should at least understand my playstyle varies and not be just comparing it to some two-year old game.

marketplace 2 I already noticed a difference that threw me off: 1832 1909 2661-

" I think part of my issue with pere is kind of self absorbed as I can't see why he'd have me as null with the need to do further meta research when we've played a few games together and he's seen me as scum and town. I don't think I've been overly active this game and shining brightly like a beacon of innocence though but it still kinda reads off."

At this point you were picking up the whole "How someone reads me determines how I read them" thing.
But we worked through it.

HPATPL- You were SK. But even after you admitted it, I could see your town mindset scumhunting (you shot scum). That was one reason I was OK with leashing you. 1639

Marketplace 3 You were a hydra.

Board Games- You were a hydra

Gundam Seed (hydra) 370

I'm a hydra now.

Marketplace 3 - 95% of those posts are mine. (You can tell which posts aren't mine as syryana is telling me to shut up and meta someone like we had discussed >_>)

Gundam seed - 99.5% of those posts are mine.

Board games - pless posted more than I did, but that should tell you something. Games going on at the same time, my overall approach is similar, except I'm actually more engaged here than I was there.

What this collection of games whether hydra or solo should tell you is that you can't meta mr off one game, and sure as he'll not off one game from two years ago. And if you're going to look at a town game you sure as shit need to look at a scum game. You've seen two: team mafia and anything goes. Wait three weren't you in heterosexual revolution?

What all of the games you have participated in should tell you is that you actually have to look at a large freaking sample size with me unless you are a really gifted meta reader who picks up tonal differences really well. I'm an emotional person, I'm an emotional player, that means that my mood impacts my posting more than anything else. Not only my away from mafia game mood, but the mood of the game as well. It also impacts how I read the game and how I read others. I don't have one specific playstyle or one specific scumhunting method or one specific anything.

People with small sample sizes almost always pick up on incorrect things. For instance, in mafia.maiden a couple years ago magua thought I was scum based on my reaction to suspicion. I got very frustrated and flustered, which regfan who knows me recognized as town. But magua had recently played in ny146 where I had replaced into a slot widely regarded as the sk and was up for a lynch. I took that suspicion really calmly and worked to get information out there as I knew it wasn't my fault I was going to be lynched. I ended up not and was able to win it for town in lylo. (Incidentally, I've always wished I could be that person under suspicion.). But what to read me by was misunderstood.

Likewise, you could look at two recent games of mine.

im proud as fuck at this game

And

not as proud of this game

Both town wins. I replaced into both at the same time. The first game I felt like I was really on top of my game. A couple original reads were off but those were corrected for, and once falcon replaced in we figured out the game together really well. It was a solid solid game. The other game? Felt meh. Had a bad scum read but fixed it. Knew something was off with nacho but the game just felt off overall.

So both games at the same stage of my life. I was just as busy, in the same rl mood for both, but in one I excelled and one I languished. In both I was able to look town, which is over and above my best attribute. It's the thing I know how to do best and most consistently.

So, meta me, sure, but not as simplistically as you've done because you won't get anywhere, but irritate me.

I use meta better if I was actually in the game.

(I think I replaced into the hetero revolution one if that was the lovers game)

And overall, I prefer similar game types to similar game types.

I'll leave the mood thing alone, since I think my opinion on that would be in the minority. Suffice to say if I'm in a cat-kicking mood, there is no reason for me to come online and kick your virtual cat. That would just be pointless when I have a perfectly good cat to kick here.

[PeregrineV]

@Nacho

- Good morning!! Actually reading and responding to Mastin? You are a better man than I for that.

Oh, and also,

@Nacho-

Would like to see a summary of your current reads along with a brief reason for each.

Also, thoughts on the neighborhood you are in.

[PeregrineV]

@Nacho- Good morning!! Actually reading and responding to Mastin? You are a better man than I for that.

give me a moment. i will give a full list of general reads (a catchup post even!), once i'm done catching up.
but i need to do this for right now.

k, thx

[PeregrineV]

Dang, I was hoping for a scumflip.

I am Yuri Lowell, Town Lone Wolf (modified vig), Tales of Vesperia (you can guess the modification). I didn't shoot last night because I wanted to see Rancid's flip. I shot him night1 because he was total scum (even if he flipped green).

Going home, but want that out there for discussion. I'll try to check in tonight.

[PeregrineV]

Dang, I was hoping for a scumflip.

I am Yuri Lowell, Town Lone Wolf (modified vig), Tales of Vesperia (you can guess the modification). I didn't shoot last night because I wanted to see Rancid's flip. I shot him night1 because he was total scum (even if he flipped green).

Going home, but want that out there for discussion. I'll try to check in tonight.

Were you not on the site sometime after the RBD flip happened but before deadline? Or did Cabd tell you you couldn't wait for it and still submit a shot?

I saw the flip about 30 minutes after 5104 went up.
I didn't expect the flip until daystart, so my ideas for targets are only half-formed as of right now.

Elaborate on what you knew/know about the Janitoring aspect of your role. You are claiming that you were responsible for the janitoring, right?

That's my modification. Target flips the next night (apparently at the end of the night, not the beginning). Janitored flip does not change the actual flip in terms of numbers, etc.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Magenta- Orcinus

[PeregrineV]

I was eagerly waiting for the day to start.

First off, sorry Mastin and Rancid if you are watching from the dead thread. My read on both of you guys was absolute crap. I know you probably hate me but I'll do the best to make it up to you and I want you to be able to chalk up another win. Mastin especially. You did everything you could. You left no stone unturned in trying to communicate with the town. More at endgame.

I have a few thoughts but I want answers to the following questions first:

AngryPidgeon, who did you investigate today and what were your results?

Penguin_Alien, we need to talk. It'll be awesome if you can provide your reads and catchup with the game. I want to hear your updated reads on everyone in the game, especially AP.

Tammy, why did you hammer AP so quickly when there were still a couple of days to deadline. It seems unlike you to vote before utilizing every second of the deadline clock. You waffled and waffled and waffled on Mastin and when he was brought to L-1, you checked with Breakfast, wanted the hammer, and hammered instantly. I want to see where you are coming from here.

It's nice to know my one and only certain town read is town, and not dead so thank iomedae for that!

So, you guys gonna come out of the neighborhood now and stop circle jerking about how right you are. I still feel like there's scum in that neighborhood.

Penguins pretty much going to bat for bro being town, depending on how he plays it today I guess, but she's talking me down fro
M my des/bro bloodthirst so it's up t you boys. Do something!

VOTE: carbon fiber

I'll answer you when I'm at my computer.

Also, I strongly suspect Nacho to be scum.

Pie and I talked a lot in the neighborhood. We discussed reads, commiserated about our horribad reads on Mastin and Rancid, bounced thoughts off of each other about all living players and made some progress on solving the game. I even told Pie it was like having a faux-hydra partner as long as FourTrouble had been checked out. Speaking of which, he says he will be back soon now that his finals are over.

I suspect that someone in the neighborhood knew this and wanted to eliminate Pie because he was so useful to the town. And that someone I strongly believe is Nacho.

I asked Nacho for his reads and he sort of ignored me while responding to other non game relevant stuff (me apologizing to him for bringing up Touhou as well as venting at him) but he didn't respond to my questions about reads.

Speaking of which, ffery, you were right about Rancid all along! I should have listened to you on them.

@Tammy

- this does look like a freakout on both of your parts. He makes statments and asks questions to three people.

You complain (AGAIN!) about their neighborhood existing and how they need to get out of it, while chewing my ass yesterday for THE EXACT SAME THING (me: "Hey Tammy, what's going on in that neighborhood of yours?" you:"SCUM! SCUM! SCUM!") and then think Carbon is scum for asking you a question?
And since the above was a question too, I expect another freak-out. Kind of mandatory at this point.
And, Carbon has been spewing neighborhood summaries right and left. So and so said this, I said that, they said that, they said nothing. And you are again (AGAIN!) pushing the "secret" neighborhood play of those within it.
You have yet to compare his summaries with Just Sheep Us or Nacho or Carbon or Yggrda's in-thread play to point out anything different.
This looks like scum paranoia on your part.

[PeregrineV]

@Angry-

You just finished 172 as scum with ThAd the scum ascetic. Why are you acting so clueless yesterday when Kagura/Nacho said that "no result" matches his information?
And now that game is over, have you mentioned it all as the possible reason for your result? Or at all?

[PeregrineV]

@Breakfast-

As noted above, 172 just finished.

Check out this ISO of one of your heads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41158

Now, using as many words as possible, explain how you were unable to secure any reads day1 and day2.

[PeregrineV]

I'm astounded by your inability for basic reading comprehension.

You should fake claim a guilty on me pere. I hear that's all the rage.

Yes, I am astounding.

You may answer the question.

My investigations this game are lethal (and delayed), but you are definitely on the short list.

[PeregrineV]

I'm astounded by your inability for basic reading comprehension.

You should fake claim a guilty on me pere. I hear that's all the rage.

Yes, I am astounding.

You may answer the question.

My investigations this game are lethal (and delayed), but you are definitely on the short list.

Nope I'm not going to answe your questions.

VIG ME.

OK.

[PeregrineV]

we are also aware of which situations our role will fail in

mastin was scummy in house party and then she pushed the coug wagon through because he couldn't produce the right flavor quick enough. i don't even come close to regretting that and i don't understand why that game should automatically prevent me from pushing her in this game.

bro thinks this f-16 push sucks because f-16 scum would have had to have known that rbd wasn't actually a miller.

vote: magenta_thegreat

You are also being pushed 3 ways from Sunday. Why is that?

[PeregrineV]

@Breakfast-

As noted above, 172 just finished.

Check out this ISO of one of your heads.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41158

Now, using as many words as possible, explain how you were unable to secure any reads day1 and day2.

Nope. Not going to indulge you. Replacing into a 120 page game is nothing like living a game from the start of day 1. My objectivity as a replacement is one of the strong points in my replacement games. I lack that in from-the-start games.

The way I catch up varies from replace-in to replace-in, and as I said at the end of that game I had initially planned to do a Magua style not-reading-shit replacement, but the compulsive vig role precluded that.

But, the process of catching up included you looking at posts and reaching conclusions based on those posts.
You were able to (fairly effectively and in a short period of time) determine 4 players probable alignments.
I find it hard to believe that you can't do that because you started playing in this game instead of replacing in.

[PeregrineV]

@Angry-

You just finished 172 as scum with ThAd the scum ascetic. Why are you acting so clueless yesterday when Kagura/Nacho said that "no result" matches his information?
And now that game is over, have you mentioned it all as the possible reason for your result? Or at all?

Lolz. I actually was worried about Nacho being an ascetic/commuter of some sort and said as much at some point on Day 2. I could fish up the quote, but I really dont want to dive through the depths of my ISO right now. I had a working theory that I was allowed to investigate Nacho cause scum no my role would bounce off of him or something. Of course its possible that I really was blocked. Apparently there are potentially multiple roleblocks going around and nobody else was claiming to have had their role behave oddly yesterday so its totally possible I was just blocked and Nacho is a red herring. I tried to clarify with him at the end of Yesterday about some of the shit Bork said, but Nacho was being evasive. Made me wonder if he was actually a hider or something (oops did I just say that) but fuck if I know. I could waffle about spec about my role forever so Id rather just read him off play which Im still digesting. His and PA's push on mastin felt more genuine than some of the others to me.

You and I was explicitly told that my role failed.

Hmph. Ok. This result (and only this result) is consistent with my worldview.

Why did you start out with a fake report on CF?

-b

Yeah, because as a town hider he really needs to fear being killed. And I think he'd have 2 confirmed town by now.

I'll help you with your Nacho digestion. What posts scream town-Nacho and which scream scum-Nacho to you?

[PeregrineV]

mastin was scummy in house party and then she pushed the coug wagon through because he couldn't produce the right flavor quick enough. i don't even come close to regretting that and i don't understand why that game should automatically prevent me from pushing her in this game.

Im not saying its impossible for you to have a legitimate scumread on mastin, its just the certainty that was attached to it.

You guys basically did fuckall except posture on mastin and apparently post some paranoia in the neighbor QT. Did you not once wonder "huh I wonder if this is town-mastin and we're wrong" cause you tunnelfucked her pretty hard Yesterday and didnt seem to have a singular iota of doubt about it.

We all had doubt. But they're gone now. RIP, MastinSSK.