Tales of You (Endgame)

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi guys. Theres not even a role PM in my inbox, he just skyped me it lol cause cabd is too mia for his own good.

I'm replacing this lurkscum. I could read these 40 pages, cough of some faked scumreads, and vote townies, but I'd really just cut to the latter part of that? If someone could point me to a wagon on a townie that I could hop on and get this mafia win secured, that'd be great.

You town mastin? I can smell the fear on you, just surrender now, are you mafia?

I'm bulletproof. Just kidding, I'm a lyncher for mastinSSK¹.

VOTE: Cabd.

Vote: Cabd

FoS: The mod

VOTE: MastinSSK
Because they're probably scum, and even if they're not, I'm going to end up thinking they are, anyway.

1. BULLETPROOF lyncher for mastinSSK

[AngryPidgeon]

but I'd really just

I'd really rather, scumslipping already

SOMEONE TL;DR 40 PAGES WHILE I PLAY LEAGUE

[AngryPidgeon]

There's your TL;DR

[AngryPidgeon]

I am sooooo happy Pere finally popped in and posted the player list and did absolutely nothing else. I'm also looking forward to the fact that he probably won't do anything all weekend long because it's the weekend! Maybe Monday, he'll repost the player list for us again. I was really wondering how I would know who was playing, so glad he's on top of that!

Lol this is town.

[AngryPidgeon]

So I set off to ISO MastinSSK for starters.

Hi all.

Rancid Broderick Drake is beyond obviously scum or at worst anti-town. We can already see this through a plethora of traits.

First off. the username.

Look at the word Rancid. It has a negative connotation. But why exactly? I like cheese, let's use cheese. If there was rancid cheese, what would you do? Toss it out. Because it's bad.
Case and point right there.

But it gets worse. We can look at Broderick as being another main indicator of how much they are anti-town. For Broderick consists of two parts "Bro" and "Derick". Now I don't know who Derick is but they are buddying to him as much as they possibly can from the get go! We should all look forward to this Derick as the sake of town and only see the sheeping, buddying anti-town nature of RBD.

But then Drake. Drakes aren't cool anymore. Why use that in a username? That's reason enough to vote them right now.

But if you can't see any of that, here's a couple of actually realistic predictions for how this game is going to go for these guys:

Nat and MuffinZ are going to self-vote in the very first post. But they're not going to do so in a traditional way.
No. The amount of synergy that they have will lead to an aggression. They are going to be questioning everyone. But they're never going to actually vote. They're never going to actually give real reasons for any votes they have. And they're going to get away with it because they're aggressive and because they're charismatic.

For all of these reasons, I can see nothing but a firm Day 1 lynch of
VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

Works for me. Who are you guys voting?

Oh me. Thats hawkward. GET IT. I replaced the HAWK.

[AngryPidgeon]

Someone talk to me so I can justify not reading all these pages.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey uh mastin. Your vote on me sucks. Whats up with that?

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Cephrir
Now THIS is a scummy wagon vote.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: The Fox n Hound
even

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't see how I could've made 592 as scum. I would have had to fake my thoughts on Mastin to look like I'd posted them in a hydra QT two days prior and I don't go to those kinds of lengths as scum.

Wait, people think this is scum? Has it done something absurdly scummy?

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP- you got scum, eh?

Pv please dont bus me just yet, I can salvage this slot.

[AngryPidgeon]

My only request is that we lynch Yakuri whoever the fuck by D3 at the latest. Wow. If its scum, its gotta go. If its town, its REALLY gotta go.

[AngryPidgeon]

Really mastin? My entry post was practically trust tell levels of town. Are we doing this right now?

[AngryPidgeon]

when you where scum as the birdinabath hydra, who did most of the posting? What did the QT look like?

QT was a scum QT and was mostly empty. I did most of the spamposting and mastin posted a couple scattered walls.

[AngryPidgeon]

No. We aren't. I'm past that point.

Like.

I really want to trust you.
Really want to believe you.
If not. If not trusting you. I want to enter into that debate.
Just so that at the end of it, I could go "Oh, fuck, he's actually town."
Really, really want to.

But I can't. Because...you're not. I want it to be true more than any other player, believe me. Yet...you aren't.

Like, normally, I'd give AP a day or two just on policy of AP being AP. Normally, I'd also be giving him that benefit of the doubt. Normally, I'd try hashing things out with him. Normally, I'd do a ton of stuff differently. But, well...I've never felt this way. That role reversal, of me being the one having seen the confscumness of a player, rather than being the player seen as confscum. Yet I know it's true. It simply...isn't the town AP. So this game, I'm the player who gets to say that line, that "You're scum, aren't you?" overwhelming feeling of sadness that the friend you know and respect is your enemy and you know they are.

Because it's true.

Mastin, this looks a lot like you from Game of Champions. Take a step back. Stop confirmation biasing on me over air and calm down. We all know that this just ends with you getting lynched if you follow this path where you breakdown into fits every time I post something and just call it scum motivated. Trolling isn't a scumtell for me...at all and Im actually pretty amused to have such an elaborate greeting from you, but you are wrong? I don't know what to say really, I was laughing quite a bit when I read this. Maybe my humor was a bit forced? I think because I really did not have time to read at all last night and am trying a different-ish approach to replacing in instead of cathchup spam (which was alignment neutral for me anyways )

So ya. Really not sure what you are going on about here.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like, I'm not going to bother reading his interactions with others; he wants me and others to do that. But...he's just...well, scum.

Ok, when I flip scum? You can do this. Until then, please stop being DGB levels of anti-town.

[AngryPidgeon]

My only request is that we lynch Yakuri whoever the fuck by D3 at the latest. Wow. If its scum, its gotta go. If its town, its REALLY gotta go.

It's GiF.

How much of Streetcar Racer did you read from before your replace-in?

Not very much, but more than I have of this game. I hadnt looked at this at all and Cabd asked me to replace.

Wow BRO, your hydra has posted almost as much as I have.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm preeeetty town this game, dunno how my opening posts didn't make that blazingly obvious. I cant claim town any harder than I already am.

[AngryPidgeon]

where are you heading with your vote? I know it's on the fox and I may endorse that, but you questioned it one or two posts later. Unless that wasnt srs, I can't tell

I don't really have anywhere that I'd rather put it right now. Figured I'd sheep orcinus who seems fairly town so far. That Fox/Hound post I quoted was less townie than I made it out to be although the sentiment behind it does look town to me.

[AngryPidgeon]

I skimmed MAc's ISO, seems fairly town to me.

The rhyming is bound to get him attention so lightly town on him for that alone. I like where his attention is, hes being proactive, and feels open in general
There are a few small things in there that are just reallly unlikely to come from scum actually. At least from MOST scum players.

Lord Business looks pretty terrible from what I've seen.

[AngryPidgeon]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

Like this is the most loaded language and forced scumread. This isn't scumhunting although the way its asked is like hes trying t oappear to be scumhunting.

What's an AP alt btw?

What. Just saw this.

I dunno, Im not going to quote the shit from his ISO I don't like. But it really does not look like this player has any interest in finding scum, rather making cheap cases and throwaway observations about people.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey uh mastin. Your vote on me sucks. Whats up with that?

Weeeeeeeeeell...it did. And then you had to do that thing I do when I'm actually scum, especially scum replacing in. So it doesn't anymore.

MAstin, THIS is the cheekiest post I've ever read. Calling me cheeky, Im gonna go cry now. Also if you are scum this is already masterful.

[AngryPidgeon]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

Like this is the most loaded language and forced scumread. This isn't scumhunting although the way its asked is like hes trying t oappear to be scumhunting.

Actually no the way it is worded indicates the HIDDEN, ALT player is attempting a new playstyle.

No Im not going to excuse scummy posting with a "hidden alt" defense.

[AngryPidgeon]

In fact that LB isn't a newbie just makes that even worse.

[AngryPidgeon]

There is no "right accusation", what? Thats like what scum would say when they are upset you read them correctly over shitmeta.

His attention doesn't look natural and a lot of his points (when he actually does them) are overly forced. Do you think LB has shown interest in scumhunting at all?

[AngryPidgeon]

Whats your case on the bois?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why is mastins vote crossed out and on red?

[AngryPidgeon]

Dead-serious. AP is scum. I really really wish he wasn't. But he is.

I'm really really town though.

You mean the game where I correctly pegged you immediately as scum, but backed out of it later-on? And where I read too much into your interactions with others?

That game?

Well, then, yes. It is a lot alike

Yes that game. They are also a lot alike in that you are pretty fucking town, but you have devolved into howling about me being obvious scum. You aren't going to get anywhere doing this; actually take a step back and take a breath. Reminder: in GoC mafia you went so insane that people stopped listening to your posts and you managed to not do anything pro-town while tunneling on me.

This is me calmed down, AP.
MORE THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER.
I want to read you as town.
More than any other player, I love to have a town you to blaze with.

EVERYTHING I'VE DONE PROBABLY LOOKS TOWN BECAUSE IT IS, MASTIN. If you were levelheaded you wouldn't be doing a quotestirip response to me in which you Call. All. My. Posts. Cheeky. Its anti town regardless (and in this instance) you arent even right.

Trolling isn't a scumtell for me...at all and Im actually pretty amused to have such an elaborate greeting from you, but you are wrong?

For instance, a town-you I don't think would make the assumption that me quoting your opening post means I'm scumreading you for trolling. Especially not knowing me and knowing that, well, I communicate a lot through subtext and through tracking trains of thought. (

In this case, indicating the beginning of a long spiral of scum-oriented talks

.)

Underlined: YOU ARE THE ONE WALLING ABOUT "WOE IS ME, AP COULD HAVE BEEN TOWN BUT HE ISNT ALAS POOR AP, I KNEW HIM".

I did not make any assumption about your read on me. Im annoyed that you are doing this and hoping to get to the bottom of why you are deadset on me. So explain? We DO communicate on a more subconscious level and I DO expect you to read me right, which you ARENT.

This stuff is mostly null; AP would say it regardless of his alignment. But something here is pinging me; I'm not sure. I think it's the horribad LB read.

Why do you disagree about LB? And my post on Mac IS the townposting you are supposedly looking for.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler:

I want to believe, AP.
I want to believe.

I believe that you will come around eventually.

Because I simply am. not. seeing. the town. Like...this just feels off. Your take on things.

Maybe because I've barely posted my take on things? You yourself said that my Mac read was good. You are pretty clearly town this game.

If you want to tell me why my LB gut reaction is bad, Im all ears.

Except you quite explicitly did. You assumed it was the trolling causing me to read you as scum, when it was, well...everything.

NO I DID NOT. I was hoping to start a conversation with you about it. Yes my phrasing could come across as leading, but in my head it wasn't. Imagine me saying it skeptically with a little reservation. And pretty much all I had done up to that point was troll around for reactions (but thats not the point) because I didn't want to read anyhow. The point is that whatever you think you see or don't see is...mistaken and I have no idea why you are assuming my attitude is scum here rather than town.

[AngryPidgeon]

This whole "I'm soooo town for no reason" "You're soooo scum for no reason" deal is a massive distraction from anyone accomplishing anything at all.

Yes, I already said this.

This is a pretty easy non-committal thing to say here.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like mastin. I get that the "I'm town, what are you doing, its obvious" is exactly what I would say as scum (and town). But my entry post was really pretty town, especially the rolecard bit? As scum I do my best to ignore you and encourage you being ridiculous when possible. (GoC mafia). This really isn't scum me and I'd say Im baffled but Im willing to drop it cause you have a right to be paranoid.

Also, I took the "I'd let him live but hed probably kill us all" as a compliment

[AngryPidgeon]

No, your Mac read is obvious. Nobody's scumreading Mac nor will anyone ever scumread Mac because Mac's obviously town so townreading him is nothing special. At all.

Keep in mind that I literally have read nothing other than posts since I replaced in, a couple posts from your ISO, couple posts from Fox/Hound, and Mac. I cant tell if you are arguing that I somehow suspected/knew people were/are townreading Mac and that makes my townread on him less valid, but ok.

You know damn well the reasons behind my townread should matter more anyhow.

[AngryPidgeon]

You...are. Basically, actual obvtownness is not solidified; faked obvtownness can be pointed to.

Everything can be pointed to. And if this were true youd have something on me other than "But, but. HES SCUM. I just KNOW it."

Which is, y'know, what I feel like you're kinda doing here, though this is an oversimplification of your scumplay and we both know it.

Except not even remotely? My scumplay IS malleable, much like my townplay. Recently, my scumplay has been more antihero mafia-esque and my town play is, bluntly, this. You know Im right.

[AngryPidgeon]

Everything can be pointed to. And if this were true youd have something on me other than "But, but. HES SCUM. I just KNOW it."

This is a really, really bad answer. It's a cop-out then deflection.

Recently, my scumplay has been more antihero mafia-esque.

My memory must be muddy considering your play here

does

seem

extremely

akin to antihero mafia.

There wasn't anything to respond to. You said that fake obvtownness can be pointed to. You aren't even pointing to anything. You flatout admitted that if you COULD you might be able to actually lynch me.

If you think this is me from Antihero mafia, you should see an optometrist.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh I misunderstood your point then. My response to Mac is exactly what you are getting at then >.>

I'm preeeetty town this game, dunno how my opening post

s

didn't make that blazingly obvious. I cant claim town any harder than I already am.

I mean. I almost see your point, but I literally just started posting so there really only IS like a couple things I can reasonably posture about being town in my ISO.

[AngryPidgeon]

and I think the main thing I noticed are some tonal issues that are lacking here

How did your read progression of bork go in that game and what tonal issues do you mean specifically?

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin may have been scum in that game, but his push was sincere. Read the not-town qt. He 100% believed you guys were scum.

Which is still unbelievable, but I guess. Thats some amazing scumplay to lie to yourself so well.

[AngryPidgeon]

Alright, thats a pretty town sentiment re: Borktells.

What is your reason for voting BRO/Desp?

[AngryPidgeon]

On a semi-related note, I sort of don't like Bork in ISO, but they've said some things that look a little town from a hydra angle, so conflicted. Bork should come out and play, so I can nail him like I did in Posh mafia.

[AngryPidgeon]

I didn't like des really only popping in to do that but responding to a post I made about them not doing anything and wanted them to and how with the way bro brags about his game it's troubling he's completely absent, with a "Tammy you know it's null" type of post. I don't have a decent lead to follow elsewhere, so until something else pops up that's shinier or they DO SOMETHING that makes me think they're town, I'm here. Waiting impatiently.

While I sympathize with this, I know BRO at least has been disappointingly unmotivated in some town games of his recently. No idea about desperado. I'm hopeful to interact with them to get an actual feel, but Im not overly confident in my ability to read BRO. so ya, get the frustration but I dont know if hes scummy for that.

@Foxboy: Why would your (lack of) scumread on me not matter? Ar you already resolved to getting lynched or something?

@F-16: Mastin is town. Stubborn. Tunnely. Town. I say this and I may end up waffling on her later in crippling bouts of paranoia and fits of crying, but shes town despite what I may or may not say in the future
You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

[AngryPidgeon]

Eh, I can't say anything more on BRO. But Street Racers is the one completed game that I actually had a chance at reading BRO and I waffled about him back and forth forever and kept wanting to lynch him.

[AngryPidgeon]

I call bullshit on the idea that you can't read him well

Well Im 0/1 reading him well in completed games and I have reason to doubt my ability.

Ive seen him be largely apathetic recently which he seems to be here. I guess I'd say hes a light town lean, for slapping a naked townread on me when Im probably pretty easy to hedge on right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'll take your Mastin read into consideration if I develop a townread on you at some point. Do you have any completed games with Mastin besides Anything Goes as town/scum, scum/scum etc? I want to look at your interactions more.

Ya, no. Mastin and I go way back and Im not going to let anyone misread us over meta which is pretty inevitable should it be linked. I mean you are free to do that on your own, but don't. We are 2 of the most self-ware players on the site and we constantly coevolve and change our game up intentionally anyhow. Reading into AP/mastin meta is a rabbit hole that I cannot endorse.

I trust only myself to read mastin (though I'd give BROs opinion good weight) pretty much eve and shes town.

[AngryPidgeon]

eve = ever*

[AngryPidgeon]

PV, you think one of KAgura/Yakumo is scum but not both?

[AngryPidgeon]

IDK, PV's reads list looks like he did.

[AngryPidgeon]

Null on town side
Kagura or Yakumo
Mac
Red Gyarados
Stalin
Fox Hound


Null on scum side
Kagura or Yakumo
Cupcake
Just Sheep
Rancid

I'm really interested in the thought process that went into that Kagura/Yakas;dkf placement.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi ffery. We should have breakfast sometime.

[AngryPidgeon]

Who are you I don't see your name in the OP AP.

I replaced elemental something or other?

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Kagura

Im going to posture over here for a little bit.

SUP

BORK.

[AngryPidgeon]

Shrug. Is it a townie looking iso?

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow.

[AngryPidgeon]

Did somebody call me useless? Jesus, its been 24 hours since I replaced in. I cant remember who said it, but screw off.

I have a ton of shit to respond to here but its bedtime. Or should be.

--

Hm, I like LB's point about RBD's trolling in 1151. The rest of it kinda bullshit, but it looks like town motivated bullshit anyhow.

Wait RBD is ACTUALLY a miller gladiator something? oO. I recalled seeing something about that and filing it under "Lol, silly trolls". Ugh lynch all gladiator claims

Seriously, I quoted Two Gentlemen of Verona, how did you not get that was me?

I saw a post in the thread when I was scanning around to the effect of "People always call you ffery when you hydra with ffery" so I decided to be a troll. I kinda figured it wasn't her.

30+ pages to catch up on this is not fun.

Then replace out if you can't keep the pace.

ffery, mastin, AP all at least understand that brevity gets shit done.

Wait, you are being serious?

That was the most uneventful 30 pages ever. I totally didn't need to do that my vote still good.

Wait, you are being serious?

[AngryPidgeon]

-The biggest thing for me was the vote on Titan at 176, where both Ceph and I were thinking they were solidly town, followed by the unvote in 433 because Tammy apparently 'towned it up'. The problem here is that Tammy had actually towned it up before they even voted

Point being, thats your opinion. Is it wholly unreasonable for someone to townread Tammy on her later posts rather than immediately? I mean really?
That post made me laugh though.

I mean, from a theory perspective, you may as well wait for me to 1v1 you. If our gladiator ability weren't a night action, I'd be using it today, but unfortunately it is, so tomorrow it will have to be.

Oh, you're a gladiator?
VOTE: RBD

Ehhhh? I mean I joked about this in my previous post, but gladiator is USUALLY a town role. And RBD's zeal and disappointment reads pretty town this game. This isn't just pandering to mastin and my expectations for you is it? Cause I think you know better than to vote someone over a gladiator claim.

Also, gladiators are neg utility as town, high utility as scum.

If you ever use your gladiate shot, I'm making sure you die.

This is more reasonable. Do you think RBD is scum outside of the claim?

Butyeah. Lynch Fox/Hound. Gladiate Sheep Us or AP. (Yes, I'm fully aware that I'm suggesting gladiating the same players that were victim to it last time. The difference is that this time, they could actually be scum.)

Point of regard, I'd rather not be gladiated?

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin, what happened to lynching AP?

Why do you care?

RBD is a gladiator.

They die.

It's relatively simple.

You scum, or just really, really this bad?

Gonna be honest, as much as I want to believe BRO is right about me, I really think hes going for townpoints with this gladiator push. I think he thinks its expected of him? Or hes just trying to get me on his side? BRO is an objectively good player and pushing gladiators because you got gladiated by scum once is not objectively good play.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok, Im through 49. Going to compile last thoughts rather than quote strip again (mostly) then sleep.

Go ahead. Because I already have. Do me a favor, BROseidon. If you're town? Never sign up for a game I'm in again, because your arrogance. You making the same fucking mistake. Game. after. fucking. game. Is godfuckingawful.

Errr. While I agree that BRO is probably scum here, this is uncalled for. I don't think you've ever posted anything like this before, come on. Step away from the keyboard.

GIF: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5808121
Wow, I will SK the crap out of you if you make a singular other equally spammy quote post.

BRO: , breaking my heart. Bro actually cited AG mafia as a reason to townread my entry post. Come on man, thats really weak. I compiled my entry post from a few different places and copy+pasting something I did as town in one game does not make me town in another game. Like, really? At first I was happy SOMEONE was getting my attitude this game, buuuut that initial opinion has just been run through the trials. Starting with this push on Nati for his roleclaim. Mastin basically already discussed this ad nauseum, but put simply: we aren't policy lynching a gladiator, jesus. Yes Im still a little salty about AG mafia, but Im not hellbent on revenge over it like you are trying to sell here? I suspect BRO is trying to fake town emotion here and falling short. The posts about Death Millers were also irrelevant and like "hey look over here, Im not the droids you are looking for!". I don't think this is house party BRO. I don't see the certainty, I just see bitterness over the Gladiator and bundling mastin in as scum with RBD because lol. Speaking of reasons to read people for their role, mastin not having a vote seems pretty severe to be a scum role. So ya hes just town.

Fox/Hound: Originally disliked them asking mastin about his read/push on me and was gonna call them on being weird (like scum upset at being caught here, trying to understand why Im off the hook?), but their follow up "ya lets lynch the smilie!!!" sort of makes sense to me. I have a hard time buying they are scum with BRO..it just feels to blatant? Pushing the same reads, cuddling up to me (don't Im still getting over my cold), dunno. Officially predicting a townflip here, but not really that confident and thats sorta dependent on BRO being scum ..which I mean he is, but ya.

RBD: Not scum so they must be town. I really would rather not be gladiated. Or lynched at all. I kind of expect to be NK bait, so ya.

[AngryPidgeon]

So ya hes just town.

She*

[AngryPidgeon]

So not liking: F-16, BRO, GIF. Would lynch. Also maybe Kagura, Bork needs to talk to me.

[AngryPidgeon]

AngryPidgeon: I'm blackmailing you. You sheep me on Fox/Hound, I consider letting you live. You don't? And it'll take a fucking innocent child role from you for me to not lynch your god-damned scummy ass. No, not a cop inno. I'm lynching you if you get a cop inno on you if you go against this. This is something you sheep me or die on.

I'd be lying if I said I expected them to flip scum.
But ok. You can have a proxy vote since you dont have one. But I want to do some things first.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also didn't like Prohawk's next post where ffery basically asked him for an opinion on FoxHound, he says he's on it, comes back two days later and... nothing.

You are reading too much into somebody being busy.

OK SLEEP NOW WOW FUCK.

[AngryPidgeon]

- ap states that he's never been this town and his entry posts should make that obvious
- drake and mastin both scumread him for his entrance posts; bro townreads him
- ap townreads drake and mastin; chastizes bro for reading him as town for posts he himself states should make him obvious town

First of all, this isn't my only reason for scumreading BRO, but this strawman is duly noted.
Second, its the logic with which he presented the read that was forced/bad. He actually said "AP posted this same thing and was town before, therefore hes town here" which is really missing the mark and is just overjustified in a bad way.

Sorta busy at work right now, but I'll be around hopefully.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, you realize I didn't state a town read on you until after mastin/RBD started pushing you on your entrance, right?

Well mastin started pushing me instantaneously after I started posting so yes?
The point being is you literally threw townpoints at me for

META

because I ctrl c + v'd words that I made in a game where I was town. Really? I dont care about the timeline, I care about the reasons.

And Desperado? saying "OMG AP thinks hes town and we agreed therefore hes inconsistent in calling us scum" is the stupidest shit I have ever read.

[AngryPidgeon]

HEY MUFFIN.

AP USED THAT EXACT ENTRANCE, NEARLY VERBATIM, IN A GAME WHERE HE WAS TOWN. AND WHERE MASTIN WAS SCUM AND PUSHED HIM FOR IT.

SO TELL ME MORE ABOUT HOW IT'S "NOT A TOWN ENTRANCE"

Ok, I looked back and I may have misunderstood this post. I read this as you calling my entrance town because I did it in AG. In hindsight, it looks like you are arguing to RBD that its at worst null here.

Can you explain the RBD scumread to me, Im really not seeing them as scum here.

[AngryPidgeon]

So you wanna live?
Bluntly, fullclaim now.
Not later.

Now.

Blow me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not going to full claim just because its on the mastin agenda, mastin. You and RBD may be on the right track this game, but you're pretty fucking wrong about me/my-slot and Im not going to game throw and be anti-town just because the two of you happen to be aggressively misreading me.

Your demands are dumb and I fully expect a "OMG this is a scumclaim". You really need to stop making demands of me, please. I'll claim when I damn well please and not a second sooner.

[AngryPidgeon]

Gonna be honest, as much as I want to believe BRO is right about me, I really think hes going for townpoints with this gladiator push. I think he thinks its expected of him? Or hes just trying to get me on his side? BRO is an objectively good player and pushing gladiators because you got gladiated by scum once is not objectively good play.

what fucking townpoints are available for pushing a gladiator claim like 2 weeks after they claimed it when the slot has had less than zero pressure on it?

Im out on a limb a little bit, but I really dont see your push being from town. Desperado showed up to assert that you are just bitter about AG which was pretty clear and goes without saying. I just cant shake that the push is meant to look sensible but isnt?

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah?

I haven't played with you in like a year but I don't remember your MO to be "threadshit the fuck out of your entrance on replace in"

Is that seriously the only comment you have to make about my entrance into the game?

Not curious why Im voting you?

No comment on mastin walling up the thread with me?

Nothing in your ISO looks extremely town.

There is also something about it that bothers me. A lot. When did you make your hydra QT for this game?

[AngryPidgeon]

@ ap: i just don't understand your thought process. you expected people to see you were obvious town, but you townread two players who scumread you for it and calling bro bad for saying you're town (even though this is what you expected?).

I always think that Im obviously town, even when scum (although Im more likely to declare myself obvtown as town).

Im not focusing on people's reads on me as a basis for my reads because Im not shit at this game. Mastin is town because mastins push on me is borderline insane and way too overdone to be likely from scum. She knows she cant elude me forver when scum, so she rarely pushes me as scum, CERTAINLY not in 1v1 tunnel mode where Im way more likely to get her lynched. RBD is probably town for the hated miller gladiator claim and their tone/attitude/presence is just ridiculously town. I could point to some specific instances and wall about it, but they are just town. Everything about them is troll-y but determined, annoyed but spirited. If they are scum . I mean I guess they -could- be, I'd have to bow down to muffin for being the most unreadable scumbutt to ever scum the 7 seas.

[AngryPidgeon]

This is town as fuck.

Ya, Im in this camp. Ceph's frustration has been acting like a kicked puppy for the last few pages, but I'm pretty sure its a Town aligned kicked puppy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok BRO, so why am I town again? Is it literally just because mastin and RBD are calling me scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

And Im still waiting around for any bullet points you may have on why RBD is scum*

* Use of word gladiator forbidden.

[AngryPidgeon]

You are not escaping a lynch.

We don't lynch you today, it's tomorrow. If not then, D3. You are not escaping that fate. I explained explicitly why you claiming would be pro-town.

If I have to claim to become obvious town I will. But until then Im totally happy doing my thing. If I get gladiated and have to get lynched despite it, I will SMH. So stop being dumb. I'll claim if I have to. Which is ideally not until later.

You and RBD are the only people aggressively misreading me, so Im not exactly shaking in my boots over here and Im not going to out my nice little role just because mastin wants it so.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not focusing on people's reads on me as a basis for my reads because Im not shit at this game.

>implying this is even what i was saying

you claimed bro's reason for townreading you was forced and unjustified despite claiming yourself that your opening posts were trust-tell levels of town. what did you expect town-bro to say and how did it differ from what he actually did?

I THOUGHT HE WAS CALLING ME TOWN FOR META, I LOOKED BACK AND HAVE REALIZED THAT I MISINTERPRETED HIS POST.

IM STILL WAITING ON A GODDAMN EXPLANATION FOR THE TOWNREAD ON ME OTHER THAN "MASTIN AND RBD ARE PUSHING YOU, THEREFORE YOU ARE TOWN"

FURTHER, ID ALSO LIKE A CASE ON RBD THAT DOESNT USE THE WORD GLADIATOR FROM YOUR SLOT.

[AngryPidgeon]

You're an easy mislynch, you think you're obvtown. Choose one; you can't have both.

Not really, thats a pretty town attitude to have tbh.

--

RBD scumread is because they've been buddying the fuck out of mastin at every juncture, even when she's making pushes that are terribad (like the early tammy push, the CF push, etc).

I have a physical drawing up through page 24 of positional stuff, and the core of the game early on was very much mastin/tammy/f-16 once he moved in. Fox/Hound buddied behind Tammy, and RBD buddied behind mastin. This led me to strongly think that 1, maybe 2 people in that core group are scum. Fox/Hound and RBD make the most sense given how the attacking/defending/chainsawing mapped out.

Fast forward to your entrance, and with mastin/RBD pushing something on you as scummy that's objectively null, ESPECIALLY given that you're probably the trolliest "strong" player on site, and yeah, I'm not gonna let that shit slide.

Ok, I'll ISO RBD with this post in mind in a bit. I mean, mastin is pretty town though and I wouldnt describe what I've seen from RBD->mastin as buddying, rather townblocking? Their attitude towards mastin is a pretty fucking hardsell to assume mastin town, RBD scum.

Your 2nd bit is weird to me. The game focused around 4 people, buddying may have happened, so 2 of them are scum? Not quite seeing how you got from A->C on that one, but ok. I need to poke around that part of the game.

Are you scumreading mastin or not? I was under the impression you were, but you seem to be arguing RBD-scum/mstin-town at points.

[AngryPidgeon]

That, and the fact that you're acting like an insane schizo person with no discernible objectives.

Ok, THIS is a good reason to townread me.

[AngryPidgeon]

5) I made my hydra QT for the legend of zelda game on 9/26/13, and Nacho decided to repurpose it for this one. I did not make one for this game. Where are you going with this, exactly?

Nacho just told me that he's been posting early reads in our old Hydra QT from Legend of Zelda and I had no idea

posted in our hydra QT

Nacho in the hydra QT for this game

Ok I would understand if you guys just had a hydra QT that you use for everything. But why did you start calling it the hydra QT,

for this game

You wouldnt do that unless there was more than one QT. Its a subconscious thing. So what is this other QT you posted in

for this game

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah. The two players in this game having the most charisma are scumreading you...and one of them has a fucking gladiate that they fully intend to use within The Big Three that you are among.

THEN DONT FUCKING GLADIATE ME. IF YOU WANT TO LYNCH ME FINE. IM NOT GOING TO GET LYNCHED WITH THIS ROLE AND NO IM NOT CLAIMING IT.

[AngryPidgeon]

No, my point is that you are scum because you are arguing that your posting doesn't sound like scum, when that's precisely the thing a scum-you specializes in doing.

This could come from either alignment and I dont see why you care so much.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also mastin, for shame. You do that exact thing as BOTH alignments so your push here is extra heaping amounts of bad.

[AngryPidgeon]

Are you actually fucking serious?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9wmczxnT3c

[AngryPidgeon]

Because the actual inference you should be making there is there is a hydra QT for some other game since that is where the clarifying inflection happened that even you italicized (there isn't) or that I just decided to type that because I don't actually have to have a reason to type that - it's just what I typed there and I have no profound explanation for it.

Lol.

You and Nacho have a QT. One QT. Just a singular QT. One.

People with one thing, dont qualify it when talking about it. Its "The Hydra QT".

Suddenly saying "the QT.. FOR THIS GAME" means there is more than one QT and you felt the need to subconsciously specify which Nacho/Bork QT you were posting in. The one for this game. The scum QT. The OTHER GAME Qt is probably, you know, the zelda one.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yes the difference being that rbd is blatantly town and showing no subtlety in defending mastin.

You are buttering tammy up by reminiscing about games she won as town, irrelevantly.

[AngryPidgeon]

It is not that she necessarily won the game, it was that I read the game and enjoyed the way it was solved by the town so I mentioned it. The game was relevant because I intend to discuss DeasVail's meta when I get a chance a re-read it and have some thoughts. I don't really care if she won or lost the game. I would have mentioned my thoughts about it if I felt like it. It is still a good meta-reference.

If you want to talk about DV, then talk about DV, you have yet to actually do that other than to link 2 games and jump to the conclusion that hes town.

You have spent more time being Tammy's fanboy than you have actually explaining why those games make DV look town here. Who is a leading wagon right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

I was going to get back to it later to explain my DV read, I said as much. It is not the I posted links to games I follow up later on.

What? I really do not know what you are arguing here.

You linked 2 games. You then subtly buddy up to Tammy by talking about how really enjoyed watching her win those games.

You have yet to actually talk about those games, other than that, at all.

If you have a point to make a bout DV being town, it really shouldn't take you that long. You wouldn't have linked DV games with the intent of explaining a jumped-to conclusion about DV's alignment wrt those games if you didn't have some basis for believing those games show his alignment is more likely one thing than the other.

DV is a leading wagon. If you really want to look like you are doing something other than just linking random ass games, buddying Tammy, and WKing DV, then actually do what you keep saying you are going to. It really shouldnt be that difficult.

[AngryPidgeon]

This game does not look like town PV btw.

[AngryPidgeon]

There might be some merit to that. Because he came at me over what he considered scummy posts, yet the moment I turned my attention to him and voted he completely dropped the subject of me and agreed with a subsequent post of mine.

Believe me, I really could not care less about your read on me or your reads in general.

[AngryPidgeon]

Dude, posting game links with no explanation is part of my playstyle. If you want links to past games where I did this, ask. I usually tend to follow up on them later on. I have yet to talk about them, so what? I will do it when I will.

There is no subtle buddying here. She was the one who engaged me about it she was in one of the games and I said I liked reading it because I had fun watching it unfold.

For FUCKS sake. YOU have been arguing with me about how you linked the games SO YOU COULD GO BACK AND MAKE A CASE FOR DV TOWN when I pointed out that you had done nothing but BUDDY TAMMY over the stupid games and nothing else.

You are now doubling back and arguing that you typically just post things for no reason when I asked you to actually deliver on your promise to analyze DV which you said you would do in defense of me pointing out you posted random things to not end except buddying tammy a post later.

WOW. This is mist right here. This is like San Francisco fog all up in my thread.

[AngryPidgeon]

posted random things to no

t

end

no**

[AngryPidgeon]

Graaaah ok.

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

Wait that adds up to 17 wtf happened here.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh lol, it all makes sense now.

[AngryPidgeon]

^ Er that was about my previous statement, Im talking to myself.

Im not arguing that Falcon is lying about thinking you were enjoyable in those games. HEs just doing the same crap Ive been busted for in the past like telling Bacde I was impressed with him and that we should hydra sometime when I was scum and he was town in that one open.

P-edit: ya that.

[AngryPidgeon]

And his runaround about intending to provide analysis on DV and then later posting that "no he just posts random games with no special intent sometimes" is some scummy ass handwaving.

[AngryPidgeon]

Have you read the thread?

Not from front to end, but I've read a few random ISOs and randomly poked around in parts I felt relevant.

[AngryPidgeon]

(But I've read a good 2/3s all together probably just bouncing around.)

Is there something egregious about my reads?

[AngryPidgeon]

I didn't like des really only popping in to do that but responding to a post I made about them not doing anything and wanted them to and how with the way bro brags about his game it's troubling he's completely absent, with a "Tammy you know it's null" type of post. I don't have a decent lead to follow elsewhere, so until something else pops up that's shinier or they DO SOMETHING that makes me think they're town, I'm here. Waiting impatiently.

While I sympathize with this, I know BRO at least has been disappointingly unmotivated in some town games of his recently. No idea about desperado. I'm hopeful to interact with them to get an actual feel, but Im not overly confident in my ability to read BRO. so ya, get the frustration but I dont know if hes scummy for that.

What do you think about BRO not doing anything but immediately upon seeing you replace in started on catching up? It made me feel twitchy as hell when I first saw it and made me rethink the scum read on had on your slot because I could see him being like okay gotta step up or AP will catch me, which now means less because of your less than confident stance on being able to read him. BUT on the other hand, I remember BRO telling me once that having you in a game with him was like dealing with an in-thread masonry. I can't remember where he said that to even make sure that it was you he referenced though, so in that respects catching up to bounce ideas off you might be the impetus.

Am I mistaken about how you guys interact or does that make sense at all?

Angry Pigeon you never answered this.

I can answer this a little better now that that damn 7p micro is over. I've only really been in 2 games with bro where I was town and not hydra with him. In street racers I waffled on him and kept wanting to scum read him incorrectly. He mostly brushed me off and we ultimately did push good lunches when I stopped getting dumb leverls of paranoid. He actually did do protown things there even if I found his conclusions wonky.

7p game I was disappointed in his lack of scum hunting tbh. Felt he was largely apathetic and I pushed him over it and he claimed conformable role and got me counter lynched for pushing him lololol. So I got trolled. Town was being dumb there though. FuDuzn was obv scum all game anyhow but was a shit lynch until survivor died. So meh.

Anyhow I don't think I'm a huge motivator for town bro and I don't think I have a good track of reading him. OK at best. I'm leaning scum I guess so he's probably actually town. #facepalm

[AngryPidgeon]

What is you guys' read on AngryPigeon?

AP is a townread for me.

I am seeing Fox and Bro-Desp as town with Mastin/Muffin/AP scum.

Fox's reactions to the pressure on them felt incredibly genuine and most of their posting so far is relatable and makes sense. Their Disney picture presenting the Rancid vote was hilarious and natural. I didn't like Mastin saying that he was not going to let them mislynch Rancid. I mean Muffin is a ridiculously difficult lynch and I don't understand the protectiveness towards him because he isn't one that needs any.

Im having a hard time seeing how someone could find that team to be a reasonable suggestion, but ok. Explain to me why it makes sense to you? I get the fox townread.

I'm town reading him for two reasons: First, I don't see any intentionality to what he's doing. I could explain this in more depth, but the high-level thing is that AP's jumping around in a way that looks to me like he doesn't have a long-term objective, like he's not trying to accomplish anything. That reads as town b/c it demonstrates a lack of groundedness and defined objectives that scum-AP would have (especially given that scum have day talk). The only scum-goal I could possibly see is "bog down the thread tremendously," but given that this player base is pretty good at parsing through large amounts of bs, that seems like a dumb goal to have had.

Desp thinks that he's scum-theatreing with mastin and muffin/nati.

Welp, I dunno what to say about the hydra dissonance part of this, but your reason for townreading me makes complete sense. That is something that is distinctly lacking from my scumgame rather consistently. Which is part of why mastin calling my game here a lot like Antihero mafia was just flatout baffling. What did you think about mastin claiming that his role is deeper + rly useful beyond the vote thing?

also lol at despbro thinking me "buddying" mastin is because im scum

gonna take that as a scum claim if bro is the one putting forth that argument

Why?
-Muffin

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean, maybe not unfakeable levels of towniness, granted, but pretty damn town all the same.

You know, Im not gonna pretend I have a good reason for asserting it, but I really don't like this post.

Have you taken more solid positions on that core group+APslot?

Err I definitely recall them calling Mastin scummy and DV townie. So I wouldn't say they've been a non-presence here.
Speaking of,

I have a mixed read on AP atm. I'll probably go into more detail after I reread the last few pages a dozen times.

I was serious when I asked about having breakfast with you. I sorta forgot I asked in the flurry of other things swirling around, but iuf you could talk to me about your F-16 opinion and NachoBork opinion, that'd be super.

but his disappearance for a stretch afterwards bothered me a little.

He lurked bad in Xenosaga. I dunno, his attention feels right. It looks like hes taking things in with an open mind and not really pushing any bogus agenda.

Huh, Im having more trouble than I should distinguishing the Stalin heads and that might be because I had only 4 hours of sleep last night. The Carbon/Stalin posts are bouncing off my brain so Im gonna pretend nothing really interesting happened there.
Woah full stop though, CF brought this up:

You're apparently trying to tailor your interactions with me to what you think I should expect.

What do you think of CF doing this? You sort of explained what you think he did that constitutes this, but do you think this is telling at all?

But I am getting really. fucking. sick. and. tired. of. people. comparing. every. damn. game. to. anything. fucking. goes. EVERY. DAMN. GAME.

huh, you know you did this exact formatting and meta-frustration in anything goes....
Mastin: suspicious

[AngryPidgeon]

The heck are you smoking?

[AngryPidgeon]

My role's anything but 'pretty useless'. It's actually pretty freaking strong an ability.

Mastin, pretend Im town for a single second. Just one. You owe me this shit if you are town cause I really dunno if Im reading you correctly on the bias that you only treat me this way when you are town afaicr. Why are you doing this? This really is not town motivated...at all. Claiming flavor? Trolling about your role? Ok maybe. This?

Like people start calling you suspicious and we get this "BTW IM ACTUALLY A GOOD ROLE" lobbed out for no reason.

And Orcinus is pretty fucking town, Im a little startled that you have him as "aggressively null". Talk to me about why that is.

[AngryPidgeon]

The bits below that also feel off. The Clyton-in-rest bit in particular.

All-in-all, this reads list feels like it could come from any AP...who has posted differently. From AP as he's posted this game, this reads list feels...off, in an intangible way that eludes me.

Would it make sense if I told you I read a fair amount of the thread last night but didnt post about it at the time? I went for a little walk to cool off + go to 7-11 and I mostly read games while I was doing it. So I sorta bounced around and read ISOs (Orcis in particular) and some other things, but didnt want to post since I was on phone and walking.

RBD is town as fuck for the Hated Miller claim out the gates. They've claimed a role out the gates that is PL bait and actually backed it up with solid play. Like the chances of them being scum are pretty damn low for the claim out the gates in general. Like I said, I didn't process immediately that the claim was an actual serious claim. But that + their posting is strongly town.

Rg I am unsure of (hence the ? next to their name) but I just dont

feel

anything bad about them. Looks like they are reaching out, trying to find townies, and err well, obvtown. It doesnt look forced. Not my best read and Im really struggling to back this one up other than gut, but I like them for town.

Why is Clyton interesting to you? Clyton has made like one post I can recall which Im actually recalling I wanted to repsond to......beb...

Nor scum-PV. Because there is no PV to be seen, yet, not really. PV not giving content isn't a scumtell; it's a nulltell.

Ehhhhh, I would disagree that this isn't "NO PV". Ya hes been less than ideal amounts of active, but what he has posted shows no sign of him having a town PM. At all. Its not a very strong read, but its definitely there.

[AngryPidgeon]

Correction: Just Sheep Us, AP, and Fox/Hound are all defending one another in one form or another. My vote stands, because I am not too entirely convinced with Fox and Hound. Although their defenses, their reasoning for their arguments, and their accusations are all wavering and breaking apart, I do not want to foolishly rush in to lynch them if their directions are misguided. I rather use AP's death as proof of Fox and Hound's alignment; this is something I am more comfortable with. But if the overall majority of the people here decides to lynch Fox and Hound, then so be it. I do not mind at all, but my suspicions on AP and Just Sheep Us stands firmer than the suspicion put on Fox and Hound.

^ Ya this post.

I havent at all and certainly at the time had not defended sheep us. I believe I was talking about BRO's read on me being bafflingly bad that the time, so this post feels like Clyton is...Im trying to recall that tidbit Mollie said once. About how townies construe things to be consistent with that

they

want to see. Scum do this to make things fit what they want

others

to see. Kinda random this reminded me of that, but I thought it was an interesting point when she made it. Basically, these reads lightly town to me. It looks like he is proud about his vote and he sorta seems to be in his own world here toa degree. By that I mean, it doesn't look manipulative, rather opinionated and excited about that.

So ok I just talked myself into putting clyton in the maybe-town pile \o/

[AngryPidgeon]

these

this*

[AngryPidgeon]

Although my posts are somewhat opinionated, it does not mean I am prideful about such matters. Why do I open myself to be corrected then? Why do I wish to engage other people in thoughtful dialogue? Is it not natural for any town member to engage others in dialogues so that they can understand one another when their perspective contains no sure-tell of who's part of which alignment?

Also, while it is a great skill for scum to be manipulative, I disagree with towns wanting to see results they want to see. Unlike the mafia as a collective team, the townie can only make things happen by him/herself. It will be a great jump to assume things can go according to what you want. Ideally, a town should analyze the options and choose the most favorable one while making the most out of dire situations.

I will be taking a look back at the recent updates since my last post. But, I will declare V/LA again at least until Saturday hopefully. I have two exams and one due essay coming up tomorrow, and once I finish those, I'll be done my school year aka more time to spend here!

There is nothing wrong with being prideful, I think thats a town sign? Maybe "prideful" was the wrong word in this instance, but only kind of.

-Interjection: Im a little perturbed you didnt talk about me pointing out I havent defended SheepUs and was in fact pushing them, but ok-

I didn't say you are railroading lynches and closing yourself off. To the contrary, you seem quite interested in interjecting into the main CF that is going on and parsing said CF. By pride I mean you have some certainty to your reads that looks genuine even if misguided (once again, Im town and I dont know where you got the impression I was defending BRO when you posted this..). And you are showing fairly independent thought by acknowledging the Fox/Hound wagon but deciding to stick with your vote (more example of what I mean by pride).

most out of dire situations.

What do you qualify as a dire situation?

[AngryPidgeon]

Obviously me and RBD?

[AngryPidgeon]

proddodge

VOTE: carbon fiber

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh hey I should help you with that. Also we should duo bot more.

[AngryPidgeon]

I know why Bork hasn't posted anything town

[AngryPidgeon]

Okay in what way is mastin town your rock?

Yaaa, mastin is either scum or channeling House Party mastin this game. I suspect the latter, but either way.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yaaa, mastin is either scum or channeling House Party mastin this game. I suspect the latter, but either way.

Either way what?
Was he town in house party?

-b

Well it was sorta like Xenosaga mastin. I'll be your rock though.

[AngryPidgeon]

I want to correctly lynch an ace of mastin's caliber so bad it's like I haven't peed in a month, though. I MUST HAVE THIS.

So cheeky. Probably town cheek but I -could- see this being from scum.

And regardless, even if I thought mastin was strongly town this game, I'd in no way understand why he'd be someone's rock.

She* and ya. I really don't get what Bork is going on about with this mastin business.

But I feel like mastin feels, well, 'flat' (sorry to use such a loaded word after that whole thing) as scum

Uh, no? And tunneling is EXACTLY what mastin is doing this game.

I dunno about AP. I've been fooled before, but I can't decide on paranoia alone. You might say I have...

This means you are leaning town on me but paranoid? Im p sure the only reason anyone's paranoid is because mastin keeps accusing me of generically vague crap like "Im just trying t5o look town" which doesnt actually mean anything and that Im playing to Antihero mafia which is laughable.

[AngryPidgeon]

Anyone with AP somehow as town (they really shouldn't) has reason to strongly believe me to be town.

Sorry mastin, you can't have your scumread on me and vouch for my read on you at the same time. That is really really scummy.

In fact I really dislike the entire appeal to authority in that post, ESPECIALLY when you are calling 50% of that scum in the first place. This is like titus-scum levels of cookiejar reaching into.

I felt a massive, "HMMMMMMMMM..." with your posting for a bit (and theorized it was off of the defense of me), but ultimately, in spite of how I feel like I should be paranoia-reading you right now, I'm still reading you as town anyway.

K a lot of mastin's posting has been really stream-of-thought this game and thats why shes been a townread for me. The issue is looking back, Im really not seeing anything thats actually extremely town in the stream of thoughts / feelings posts that are going on. It almost all looks really overly static which is a symptom of mastin rolling scum (AG mafia , /in-15, mini 1408). The stickiness with reads in this game looks bad and like mastin could be just deciding on reads and confviasing on them intentionally. Which sounds silly when I say it, but I dunno. Nothing in mastin's trajectory looks extremely genuine on most of the reads, mine in particular, but FoxHounds also looks extremely bad.

Instead of seeing a town-AP, I'm seeing an AP-pretending-to-be-town. The actions he do vaguely look town. The words he says vaguely sound town. But how they're done, how they're said, simply...doesn't. I really really wish there was a better way for me to describe the mechanic between AP and I, the dynamic we've had. But this is the best I've got. His posting has been sketchy, with all of it essentially...well, not being the strong AP I know. The best word I can think of to describe it is that it feels halfhearted, rather than sincere, but even this doesn't convey the message.

Mastin not justifying reads is more of a tell that mastin

is in fact mastin

more than anything, but I reall do expect SOME level of competence from town-mastin. Saying that Im "trying to look town" is literally the vaguest argument since literally everybody in the game is trying to look town. And not a singular meaty analysis of my play or discussing anything remotely specific about this is just bad and I KNOW mastin is capable of that with her gutreads as town. Im seeing the aggressive gutread tunneling, but it looks hollow?

...But they're a lot like a much weaker Titan reads-wise. In that when I ask myself what my read on them is, my first instinct is instantly, "Town." And when I ask myself if I'm really sure, I get an "I guess?" response back. I can see the town. Do I believe it? I kinda want to. Sorta actually do. But I don't think I fully can. It just feels like something's not entirely right, I guess.

This looks like a mastin post and I really want to townread it for the stream of thoughts style posting, but once again, really not seeing any truly genuine explanation behind the gut and that worries me.

All that said, this recent stream of posts looks like town-mastin from HPATPL but... hollow? I don't know.

@Ffery: I think I was L - 1 when I replaced into that game, Im not usually that urgent.

[AngryPidgeon]

1) A fair number of people are scum reading him. I think I'm in the minority saying "this looks like town AP to me"

No its pretty much just mastin being extremely loud and a little bit RBD.

You forgot the part where in Street Car Racers I wasn't really trying until you replaced in.

I guess thats true? I do recall most of your posting and analysis happening after Day 1 at least. I didn't really separate you and PA out too much in my head that game so I was never really tracking which of you was doing what, but you are probably right.

AP is not the type of scum player to make an intricate plan. He's impulsive, living in the now, for the most part. His best ideas as scum are done not well in advance, but at most with one night of planning before-hand. AP will have a map on what to do immediately, but his long-term plans are incredibly vague. You'd be lucky to see a kill/lynch map laid out from him, even given daytalk, since that's simply not his style. It's one of the main areas that he differs from me as a player. The drive behind AP's posting is to survive, not to lynch scum.

I think the "trying to survive, not lynch scum" scum tell works only on me, because most players care about getting mislynched.

^ Oh that mastin post reminds of the other thing that makes me cringe about mastin. The assigning meta to people after having been tunneling them for a while. And not really bothering tio explain it either, it just looks skeevy. Its part of why I disliked CF's posts about DV (looks like just pinning meta to justify a pre-decided read to a degree).

VOTE: mastinssk

Since apparently RBD ain't happenin'

Can we lynch CF today?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why are you writing off mastin's push on you as being from House Party Mini mastin instead of from scum mastin?

I dunno, maybe because mastin has never come at me this hard as scum before? I know one day she will and it'll blindside me which is why Im paranoid.

Everything she's posted -could- be from town mastin and I'm a little disappointed in the complete lack of justifications, its like mastin coasting on being mastin at that point.

[AngryPidgeon]

He didn't come at you hard in anything goes?

Oh right, lol. Guess Katsuki felt like most/alot of the push there, but ya.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh I feel like I had something to say but I can't remember now. I'm not sure if I still want my vote where it is but I'm not exactly comfortable moving it either and don't know where I want it to go.

Is this actually secretly just your Sir waffles hydra?

[AngryPidgeon]

I may have been hasty with my RG endorsement.

[AngryPidgeon]

RIP Nati

This wouldn't happen to be zmuffinman would it?

No, I'm paranoid because I was in Antihero too and got fooled pretty fucking badly. I'm not putting any weight behind what mastin's saying -- I'm scumreading her.

Ok, I won a game against you as mafia. I don't see how one game makes a huge impression on you like you are implying, but ok. And Im not even remotely playing like I was in AH mafia, so even more to that end.

I'm happy with AP eating death. AP has some very poignantly town moments (see: him engaging BRO on good reasons to townread him when BRO is in a minority), but he also has some fairly clear scum motives (see: nitpicky attacks on bork for QT shit seems far more like scum throwing things at a wall to see what sticks as opposed to genuine AP paranoia).

This read is pretty lazy. First off, my read on your slot is not purely based on the QT slip and I dropped it once I realized that no one else would care about that or about lynching you at all today. All you and Bork have done is circlejerk about being town and obviously so in a way that feels fake and when I call Bork out on not having actually done anything that looks town, he sidesteps dealing with me to just call my QT case shitty and otherwise avoid interacting with me which is the easy way out of trying to understand my pressure on your slot. So ya, you are still scum and Im waiting for the Day people will actually care. The QT comment is not an end-all case but I do stand by it being a slip and I do find Bork ONLY addressing that with me to be divey.

[AngryPidgeon]

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone. Meta can go fuck itself.

[AngryPidgeon]

So I reallllly need to get shit done at work today (and most of this week since Im behind and flying out of town for easter) so note Im going to be a little swamped until sunday and then V/LA after that for easter week. Going to see my BF ^^. So I'll be around - I dont think I'll have to declare V/LA, but Im going to be a little less on top of things than usual. Hue.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because BRO's seen my approach to mastin, across multiple games. Even if he wasn't reading Xenosaga, for example, I'm sure you mentioned it to him somewhere (because you were scum reading me for a long time in that game, for much the same reason, but I shrugged it off because I know you haven't seen how I usually approach mastin). BRO on the other hand has no excuse for this. He's seen me, multiple times, read mastin off very few posts (sometimes even a single post) correctly (100% of the time). If BRO is the one trying to push the angle that it's weird for me to "buddy" mastin here, then I'm calling bullshit since it's obviously a fabricated read.

I havent actually talked to BRO about Xenosaga very much. He was just around to look pretty while I loltunneled Kagami and Aegor.

[AngryPidgeon]

So when I say "You can't prove I'm scum", it's something that admittedly is something I've discovered to be among my own sorta-scumtells.

You cant prove that I said that though, .

Seriously though, your interpretation here is really bad. You have yet to provide a singular EVEN GUT reason for explaining your read on me. This is about your read on me, not me defending anything. If I felt you had posted anything worth addressing, I'd address it, even if it were needing to just explain the thought process that went into a post that I made. But you havent given a singular remotely specific reason for suspecting me and that is bullshit. I know you are better than that, so what gives? Its like you are trying to know (ironically) by calling me out on "Cant PROVE that IM scum" but that tell is only valid if there are actual reassons being proposed for me being scum in the first place, which there arent. At least not from you. LB has done more towards justifying their vote on me than you have. You know who IS guilty of the heinous "Cant prove Im scum?"

Wait for it. dont spoil it. Dont spoil it. Guess.:

Oh the correct answer is:

Spoiler:

I know why Bork hasn't posted anything town

It's cause I'm posting it in my six QTs or whatever the fuck, right?

-b

(see: nitpicky attacks on bork for QT shit seems far more like scum throwing things at a wall to see what sticks as opposed to genuine AP paranoia).

[AngryPidgeon]

know

now*

[AngryPidgeon]

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

@AP- Never saw an answer to this.

:/, I think you know and its not something I can just write about without essaying.

But Im not seeing your usual efforts to identify townies and connect/work with them. Im not seeing any attitude that suggest you rolled town (direct, but humorous).

Your reads list pings me wrong in that it looks like something that looks good, but isn't extremely genuine given that there is nothing to back up those stances at the time. And I dont get the Kagura/GIF placement in the list at all. Your explanation about the dichotomy did nothing towards explaining why you felt it in the first place. Also not feeling the tiered-ness of the list in this instance and Im having a really hard time mapping your thoughts to your content which has been a bad sign for you in The Fall.

Basically just nothing you've posted is extremely insightful and it all reads fairly superficial. Dunno.

[AngryPidgeon]

I guess we can do this on all the players, but see 1775. You are making very vague statements that require more work to refute than it takes you to make, very much like making someone prove a negative.

Or, maybe I should say your post was pre-answered. This pre-answer ios an example of why I disagree with this read.

This is my main issue with mastin right now. All of mastins reads are vague statements with zero backup from the realm of hard-quotes. Its really entirely 100% air. Which is something mastin is capable of as town if I close my eyes and imagine really hard, but its 100% ridiculous and quite easily scum motivated.

[AngryPidgeon]

Seriously, what does 'xenosaga mastin' mean to you? 'She had a lot of incorrect reads that game' is the thing that's most sticking out to me about Xenosaga mastin.

I also don't understand why you're like half reaching out and half taking underhanded potshots at me.

:/, "I'll be your rock" was not a reach out, lol. And yes my point is that mastin is either scum or really REALLY wrong this game. I dont see why mastin is your "rock". Her pushes are all bad and confbias at best, scum motivated at worst. Do you actually like mastins Fox/Hound pressure. Can you name a reason why mastin thinks they are scum off the top of your head?

[AngryPidgeon]

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone. Meta can go fuck itself.

LOL

How am I scum then?

See, there is pretty strong evidence to support me stating that you haven't read the thread. If you had, you may have known I've not been scumreading you.

Given that you aren't reading the thread, and your content is lacking at best, I dont see how anyone (mastin in particular) is willing to write you off as town for lurking so hard. That is shitty and people reading you as town for lurking should feel shitty.

P-edit: Nothing mastin has done is well thoight out? ITs literally just 100% monologuing about her feelings which is bold to do as scum, but given the complete lack of actual justification for things, Im reading her as far less town than I could be.

p-pedit: Uhhhhh. Ya I guess. You saying that makes no sense. You dont seem to agree with mastin's pushes on FoxHound and you seem less than certain about sheeping mastin onto me, so I dunno why mastin is your "rock" this game unless you are just full of shit.

pppedit: Afterthought? I dont get your point. I KNOW mastin is wrong about me (and being extremely damaging in the process) and I suspect mastin is also aggressively wrong about FoxHound (which you seem to think too apparently?)

[AngryPidgeon]

Do you actually like mastins Fox/Hound pressure. Can you name a reason why mastin thinks they are scum off the top of your head?

Nope, but 1) that's a problem on my end at the moment, and 2) easily rectified by re-reading her posts.
Where are you getting this 'I think x is town' => 'I necessarily agree with x about everything?'

-b

Because you called mastin your "ROCK"??? What does that mean then or is it just posting nonsense for the sake of posting nonsense?

No, mastin's reasons for scumreading people are forgettable because they don't exist. All masstin has done is try to pin scummeta on Foxhound and call me scum for ???. Originally I was scummy for playing to AH mafia, then mastin took that back when I called her on it and mentioned another scumgame of mine instead so as not to appear completely silly. Other than that, there is nothing and its bad.

[AngryPidgeon]

It means I have a really good townread on her! WOW

Like seriously what the fuck did you think it meant?

That you like her posts? Im not insane... Calling someone a rock and then backing down when I ask you what about mastin you like is pretty sketch.

[AngryPidgeon]

What the fuck did I 'back down' on?

Technically, nothing. Actually? A lot. Your attitude towards mastin makes no sense.

[AngryPidgeon]

PV's scum.

Yep.

MY.
POSTS.
ARE.
FILLED.
TO.
THE.
BRIM.
WITH.
EXPLANATIONS.
FOR.
MY.
READ.

Except you flatout admitted that you dont have a good reason for reading me as scum right here (well admitted that you didnt have one UNTIL here):

I reall do expect SOME level of competence from town-mastin.

Okay.

How's this.

I think I finally have it.

The scumtell that describes AP.

AP's scumtell is, put in simplest terms, "You can't

prove

I'm scum, nyehnyeh."

And that's what he's doing.

So not buying it.
I agree with the PV read, but once again you've provided no reasons : ).

Also, what do I have to do to sell you on Bork being a cheeky scumfuck?

[AngryPidgeon]

This is seriously not a town-PV.

A town-PV...how do I describe it? Is analytical. This PV? This PV...is hostile. A town-PV will have snark, but not of this nature, not derogatory. Not like this. Basically, this is too aggressive, forceful, hostile, and presumptuous to be a town-PV. Admittedly, I don't have much exposure to a scum-PV, but I've seen PV in a ton of his towngames. I've seen him run the gauntlet from lurker to active scumhunter, I've seen him play from beginnings and in middles and in ends, as town, and give actual effort. I've been exposed to how he treats the game as town, and this?

Simply isn't it. There's a lack of questions. Lack of not-knowing-things. Lack of lack of knowledge, you could say. He's not guessing. He's not theorizing. He's not analyzing. He's arguing. And I've never seen that from a town-PV. Ever.

oops I lied. But yeah I pretty much agree.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like hell is that "can't prove it". That is flat-out attacking you and your shitty reasoning.

Nacho's post... maybe. Bork though. No. Bork's interactions with me are scummy.

hes 100% uninterested in talking to me other than making snide remarks about one of the things I pushed him over that is, admittedly, a bit of a weird point...but hes basically capitalizing on it being a hard-to-sell point to discredit my opinion of him and justify casting me off instead of actually talking to me about why nothing they've posted looks town. Its sleazy and DEFINITELY elements of "cant prove Im scum" since hes basically saying "lol thats all you got lolol, you scummy AP but we are gonna just keep ignoring you."

Nacho comes in and acknowledges me, but Bork is fucking scummy and should feel scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

...You know what? That's another thing about a town-AP. A town-AP, even if I'm scumreading him, wants to work with me. Instead, he's been antagonizing me basically the entire time. Yes, I antagonized him first. But town-AP works with me in spite of my antagonism. (Gears of War springs to mind.) There's no effort to work with me. There's no attempt to synch up. Only an attempt to put me down.

Uh excuse me? Im not going to go quote shit from my ISO right now, but I HAVE been caring about what you say. And been trying to convince you on Bork-scum which you have given less than zer oshits about my efforts on.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP entered and immediately buddied me with absolutely zero paranoia

Ok, Im gonna be honest. Wayyy before I replaced in, I read P1 of this game offhandedly for no reason. I read that opening post by SSK (thought it was you) and told cabd way before I even replaced in "Lol, MastinSSK is basically conftown for that post".

Paranoia doesnt come in one post. I called you out in my entry so I could see how you specifically would react (TO READ YOU) and you basically just convinced me that this was GoW mafia mastin tunneling me for fuck knows why despite me being pretty town. You are seriously morphing events to fit what you want to see and you ARE tunneling. You can tell Mac you aren't "Death tunneling" but thats a pretty bad subconscious dodge of just denying that you are tunneling cause I think you knwo that you are doing exactly that, regardless of your alignment.

Saying that I dont want to work with you is just straight up wrong. My entry post was literally just me trying to inert myself into the game by ctrl c + v'ing a lot of old jokes together and seeing what happened. Im not even going to pretend I had a definite thing I was looking for, cause I didnt. It contributed to my early scumread of BRO (now waffling on since) and townread of you.

[AngryPidgeon]

Fuck any calling it null, and AP for calling it scum buddying.

What the FUCK. I SAID NO FUCKING THING ABOUT THAT POST.

THE ONE INSTANCE WHERE I -DID- CALL THEM OUT , YOU AGREED:

AND I NEVER EVEN USED THE WORD BUDDYING FFS.

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

Actually, he is. I scumread him for it.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: MastinSSK

Over it. You are the weakest link.

[AngryPidgeon]

You have done nothing the ENTIRE FUCKING GAME but take potshots at me about the DUMBEST FUCKING SHIT IMAGINABLE (QT slip? Remember when you actually fucking typed that and was like 'yeah, hmm, I'm gonna hit submit on that that seems like a good post')

but I'm not interested in talking to you? even though every post you've made about me is 'bork sure looks like scum' behind my back?

Yes I dropped it after like 2 posts because I could tell that no one was going to give a shit, but you bring it back up later to discredit me in general out of the blue and have yet to make any attempt to understand me calling out other things about you I dont like. And saying Ive done nothing the ENTIRE GAME EXCEPT TUNNEL YOU (wee caps) is hilariously wrong because Ive been pushing CF more than you and talking about BRO/mastin way more than you. Its like you are just along for the ride here.

--

I'll tell you what. I -could- see this upset-ness over the QT thing affecting you as town to the degree that we are where we are.

So lets jsut put the pitchforks aside and talk for like a little bit.

Why did you call mastin a "rock"? Shes really like your #1 townread this game? Why? What do you think about her FoxHound push?

[AngryPidgeon]

Good fucking god, you're a misrepping scumbag.

Thats ok, you called my reaction to CF's post about Tammy scummy despite it not existing. You are way ahead of me in this department.

[AngryPidgeon]

What the FUCK. I SAID NO FUCKING THING ABOUT THAT POST.

'Course not. But Carbon Fiber's someone you've been calling out, and I was making a joke about how you were likely going to be calling him out on it like he said you would.

Yes and you agreed with my suspicion on them for that post and are now posturing about my suspicion on them for that reason and calling me out for it. I cant tell if you are joking or not and it looked pretty serious to me when you posted it. Either way I dont like it though.

[AngryPidgeon]

And I wasn't agreeing. I was commenting.

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

You aren't cozying up to Tammy are you

Actually, he is. I scumread him for it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Id say something about Kagura being Thor665 in the townblocks here, but Im gonna try and be civil to Bork for the rest of the Day.

[AngryPidgeon]

('Course, a detail you mighta picked up on is that I'm actually outside my townbloc, since part of townblocking is voting together, and, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell......)

Voting mastin > voting WITH mastin.

[AngryPidgeon]

I can't really say I didn't expect this at some point, since recent posts by AP have been kinda hinting at going in this direction, but I don't really believe this was the straw that broke the camel's back for a town-AP on mastin being scum.

Its not like Im married to this mastin vote, there simply isn't interest in people I want to lynch. Bork, PV, Carbon. I'd much rather wagon them, but Im not opposed to having my vote on mastin since none of those are gaining traction. Mastin is not really on my dont-lynch list anymore so ya.

So? They'll realize they're wrong eventually, and when they do, interest in working together will rise.

You arent doing anything worth working with.

Some in PV

Ok, except this.
Mastin, if you wanna spring for this, I'll help.

VOTE: AP

I can't really say I didn't expect this at some point, since recent posts by RBD have been kinda hinting at going in this direction.

[AngryPidgeon]

I can't really say I didn't expect this at some point, since recent posts by RBD have been kinda hinting at going in this direction.

I don't think I've been hinting at it, unless you think me blatantly call you scum for 20 pages is mere "hinting"

When I talked about you hinting at the Mastin vote, I meant you went from thinking mastin was near-IC level town upon entrance to the game to thinking he was probably town in the reads list you gave to slowly finding minor reasons to suggest you're wavering on the read while not actually wavering on the read, to what appears to be the straw that broke the camel's back - something that mastin wasn't even serious about.

Me, though? I've gone from AP is scum to AP is scum to AP is scum to AP is scum to AP is scum to a vote on you.

I mean, yeah, I suppose I was hinting at it a *little* bit. Touche.

This is a way bigger reply than my snarkiness deserved >.>

[AngryPidgeon]

And yes welcome to me and mastin in games. Actually just welcome to me. My reads have been more on the tame side compared to like street racers >.>

[AngryPidgeon]

wtf are all these posts about.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'll be posting my thoughts soon. But first, I need information. What are the characteristics of a Cabd game? If I know, I can adjust my approach.

I have no idea, Ive never played a Cabd game. Buuuut, role madness-y is my guess. It shouldnt change how you read people as scum during the Day though...

[AngryPidgeon]

Would default to lynching me. If a town-AP has no attachment to voting me, AP votes for some other player. Because he gives the benefit of the doubt, because he loves playing with me, working with me, because he thinks I'm a valuable player, even if I have been having bad days. Yet here, he's explicitly saying he's not attached to it. That the vote isn't strong. Yet he's kept it there.

The problem with this forced-ass case is that I DO have an attachment to voting you. I suspect you arent going to be a valuable player so long as Im in the game if you are town, so no. Dont put words in my mouth please. And its posts like this that look like scum-mastin, so yes Im 100% cozy with voting you unless you want to take up my offer to lolwagon PV.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah, so did Esp/Molla's voting patterns when I flipped scum in House Party.
...Oh. Wait.

Are you seriously bringing this up? You loltunneled StrangerCoug D1 much like me here. You misread the crap out of BRO (probably much like here). You ranted and walled and shoved and got your MLs before people got suspicious and lynched you over how wrong you were. But ya bring up the game people keep saying your play here miiight resemble because its a town one.

[AngryPidgeon]

1872: so now is when I press you on your early townread of me. How did that diminish, or was it just never as strong as you suggested?

It hasn't changed. You're in the town group. I haven't forced an order onto the subgroup lists.

You guys really need to work on finding someone or 3 you want to lynch today because lts face it. There is always a thor665 in the townblock. You should have an idea by now of who you dont want to lynch today. Stop this Stallin' and make a move on, jesus.

[AngryPidgeon]

that's why my townbloc is pretty small. my reads list has a few players I'm willing to lynch today.

Just mastin? Or literally 8 people? Come on, that doesnt cut it. Sitting back and cruise controlling is not getting anywhere . Try narrowing down who you want to lynch and actually, IDK, voting or otherwise talking to those people?

You 2 have been hydra-dissonancing in general over this game and I have a hard time telling where you guys actually have focus on (other than Beli wanting mastin). Your lack of vote is pretty unacceptable at this stage of the game. Like. Figure out a reasonable pool of people you want lynched and be proactive about it.

Waffling in the corner about who may or may not be OBVTOWN enough to be part of le club is not helpful and, like I said, you are never going to make the golden dream perfect townblock causem evidenced by literally every game ever. So actually do something proactive instead of whatever it is you guys are doing right now. Which seems to be Beli wanting to lynch mastin all giddily but deferring to ffery and ffery not doing anything but trying to craft the master townblock at the speed of paint drying and with relevance on part to the points in Whose Line is it Anyway.

If you were actually discussing scumreads with your town core and voting them, then great! But you really arent. Hop to that.

[AngryPidgeon]

part to

par with*

[AngryPidgeon]

LIKE HELL YOU DO. Not as town, anyway. NAME ONE GAME. (Aside from our first game.) ONE. FUCKING. GAME. Where you voted me as town and had this attachment to voting me.

THEY DON'T EXIST.

This is a lie.

And even if it weren't, it still holds no relevance here. If you are town then you are tunneling me into the ground which has never actually happened to date either.

Fuck you, you absolute hypocrite. THIS IS THE ENTIRETY OF WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH MY POSTING.

Excuse me? If this is about your "case" on me then, no you haven't posted anything remotely sensible about your read on me yet other than trying to assign scummeta to my play and make incredibly vague statements that dont actually mean anything or tell us anything about your wincon. And I -am- entitled to this opinion, feel free to disagree, you have yet to actually back yourself up. Admittedly, recent posts are a little more meaty, but not really. And you are still flatout wrong / scum / trolling me so I dont care.

The only scumbag never to enter my sight was dramonic, in large part thanks to you giving him the horribly-OP scum hider

Are you seriously attacking me as a mod here? I could but wont go on about why the Mafia having an Odd Hider is irrelevant and people giving them a town pass for the claim is TERRIBLE play.

Stop trying to deflect things onto Foxhound.

[AngryPidgeon]

Have to leave, so no time to detail this, but this is also from a scum-AP. Basic rundown (advanced version to come when I have time),
A town AP is aggressive, yes.

But this AP is flat-out commanding, demanding, and bluntly, derisive. Which are not traits of his town self. Town-AP pushes who he wants to, but he pushes as a person largely by himself. Scum-AP, shown here, is largely focused on controlling the flow of the game.

Controlling the flow of the game is a nulltell for me and you know that.

Mastin is just outright lying about my meta now. I dont even know if lying is the right word. Just assigning scum motivation to every thing I say and then trying to pin meta on top like a little bow despite their being absolutely zero resaon for mastin to believe that.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey BRO, Ive changed my mind. Mastin is just scum. Her push on me is really that bad.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey BRO, Ive changed my mind. Mastin is just scum. Her push on me is really that bad.

Again, I'm confused as to why you too so long.

Reading mastin correctly is like cooking chili in a crockpot. It takes some time to do right but the results are delicious. The chili tastes like chili. Mastin tastes like scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm here ffery but I haven't had a chance to sit down and mafiamafia since Friday.


-muffin

Muffin is this you?

[AngryPidgeon]

I disagree that town AP doesn't work to control the flow of the game. I have pretty limited in-game experience with him, but work toward cadence control is something I've seen from him in the past.

Do not believe her lies.

Mastin was in Xenosaga extremely recently. I softed a role in my neighborhood N1 and then softed a guilty on Kagami cause I wanted her lynched. I basically ramrodded that lynch through and ESPEICALLY manipulated Venmar/NS who then commented on that explicitly after Kagami flipped town.

Also recently in mini 1521 I wanted mastin lynched in Mylo and Nacho replaced in. I kept pressuring Nacho to hammer mastin because I suspected she was being bussed or something.

Basically, mastin has extremely recent games ...and pretty much all of my games as proof that what she said is false and I really dont care at this point. I strongly doubt mastin as town is capable of confbiasing and misrepping meta so blatantly to try and discredit me voting her (which her recent posts have pretty much been entirely dedicated to).

Could be town, but really REALLY hoping not and thinking its just scum.

Also PV is totally a buddy that mastin is bussing but refuses to actually consider pushing when I bring it up.

[AngryPidgeon]

And that is the difference with mastin here who gets paranoid of me but will actually put effort into understanding my reads/views and mastin here who is trying to ping anything and everything on me in really vague terms.

[AngryPidgeon]

My bad. I was so close to taking it all back.

I should have realized she was town, but damn her interactions with Flandre looked so bad.

I did my part for america by removing Aegor when people wanted Skull though

[AngryPidgeon]

and that's kinda part of what bugs me this game. You're reaching out way more than you did on day 1 of that game, like you think I'm more manipulable in this hydra than I am in sangres or something.

No not at all. You guys actually were doing things as Sangres....like nailing Flandre... Right now I feel like you aren't being proactive and I want that to change.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ffery. stop being useless. Its making you hard to read.

Ok so I WAS doing exactly that in Xenosaga, so what is your point >.>

[AngryPidgeon]

Also PV is totally a buddy that mastin is bussing but refuses to actually consider pushing when I bring it up.

YOU CHEEKY SCUMFUCK.

THIS. IS. EXACTLY. WHAT YOU. HAVE BEEN DOING.

Nor scum-PV. Because there is no PV to be seen, yet, not really. PV not giving content isn't a scumtell; it's a nulltell.

Ehhhhh, I would disagree that this isn't "NO PV". Ya hes been less than ideal amounts of active, but what he has posted shows no sign of him having a town PM. At all. Its not a very strong read, but its definitely there.

So? They'll realize they're wrong eventually, and when they do, interest in working together will rise.

You arent doing anything worth working with.

Some in PV

Ok, except this.
Mastin, if you wanna spring for this, I'll help.

Note you did not follow up on this at all.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP: earlier you said that Mastin is clearly Town, but due to recent developments, you are inclined to believe she is scum based on her behavior and actions towards you. Let me ask: is she your strongest scumread and therefore, you are voting her based on that? (Also, is this scum level stronger than she is town level?) Or do you just want to lynch her because she is the "weakest link" to the town and that there is no other viable scummy options at the moment?

No, I think Kagura is probably my favorite pick for scum right now. A side of Carbon and PV. Id probably rather lynch any of these 3 than mastin, but Ive long since given up on wagoning CF and Kagura. Mastin seems determined to accuse me of bussing PV and then not actually do anything when I suggest we wagon PV, so ya. Mastin is a fine place to vote unless people want to lynch my other picks.

[AngryPidgeon]

This is not treating Ffery as another player. This is saying a lot of things that are meant to sound protown but are really just derisive of her and accomplish nothing.

Uh ya except you literally just accused me of actively manipulating her. Now Im just trying to look town. But this is something I never do as town.

Your story makes no sense, mastin.

Again. This is not an effort to work with the player in question, respecting their talents. This is not an effort to understand them. This is meant to do one thing: say, "you suck", while also encouraging them to make a reckless vote.

A reckless vote?!?!@?!!???@?@?@?@ Jesus, do we have to reach Page 100 before ffery can make a vote? I want them to narrow their focus. I want them to show interest in things so they are MORE READABLE. Ffery actually linked me doing this exact thing (although less verbosely) in Xenosaga mafia so your point here is extremely bad and its pretty damn clear you are desperate to get votes off of you at this point and this is a thinly veiled attempt to convince ffery Im manipulating her...or just trying to look town..or whatever your case is at the moment.

Furthermore, he's treating them like a strong townread. Yet there's no (for lack of a better term) trajectory to show they deserve that attitude.

NOPE. I have said I lean town on them. Me calling them out onlacking focus does not mean I have them as hilariously obvtown and your construing that I do is ridiculously scummy. I partially want them to start pushing things so I can UNDERSTAND where they are coming form better . Waffling and lurkaderping and making reads lists is great and all, but can be easily from scum.

A town-AP would have stream-of-consciousness type catchup where he would post his thoughts as he was reading, even if they ended up ultimately redundant. He didn't. A scum-him could do it, too, and to some extent, I'm willing to bet he did...

Oh wait I already talked about this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5811339

--
So I pretty much have zero intent to respond to all those bogus meta spam accusations. If someone has something they want me to address specifically, I will.

[AngryPidgeon]

I've moved down. Clyton moved up. PV moved down, too, but...what else has changed? Basically, nothing. Not before, not after.

endorse

[AngryPidgeon]

I may have been hasty with my RG endorsement.

Oh also my BRO read went from scummy to probably town.

So plenty of my reads have changed and you selectively ignoring some of them shows me you dont actually care to understand me this game. I mean seriously how the fuck could you miss the BRO read.

[AngryPidgeon]

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone. Meta can go fuck itself.

LOL

How am I scum then?

Did you ever answer this AP?

Yes

[AngryPidgeon]

Right, Im officially done responding to mastin posts about me since I've mostly been trying to address mastin all game and thats gotten me actually nowhere.

[AngryPidgeon]

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone. Meta can go fuck itself.

LOL

How am I scum then?

See, there is pretty strong evidence to support me stating that you haven't read the thread. If you had, you may have known I've not been scumreading you.

Given that you aren't reading the thread, and your content is lacking at best, I dont see how anyone (mastin in particular) is willing to write you off as town for lurking so hard. That is shitty and people reading you as town for lurking should feel shitty.

P-edit: Nothing mastin has done is well thoight out? ITs literally just 100% monologuing about her feelings which is bold to do as scum, but given the complete lack of actual justification for things, Im reading her as far less town than I could be.

p-pedit: Uhhhhh. Ya I guess. You saying that makes no sense. You dont seem to agree with mastin's pushes on FoxHound and you seem less than certain about sheeping mastin onto me, so I dunno why mastin is your "rock" this game unless you are just full of shit.

pppedit: Afterthought? I dont get your point. I KNOW mastin is wrong about me (and being extremely damaging in the process) and I suspect mastin is also aggressively wrong about FoxHound (which you seem to think too apparently?)

[AngryPidgeon]

Sort of? Im having a hard time separating mastin out from all the other voices in the thread since mastin has been stiflingly anti-town and unreasonable this game. But mastin definitely was. I think CF was too.

[AngryPidgeon]

That started out strong, but left me going "uhhhhh ok?"

[AngryPidgeon]

I dont get what you are claiming really. You are immune to things other than night kills....but not lynches. So you are basically bulletproof. Whoop-de-doo? Now you ARE me from GoC mafia, cause this is the hail mary Id be going for.

[AngryPidgeon]

But therein lies a problem. The deadline is looming and we have no other player that we can build a strong wagon on, correct me if I'm wrong.

Ya, thats pretty much it. Mastin is being distracting and not willing to cooperate on reads despite this. And both RBD and mastin ignore my attempts to get other people lynch and fling mud at me voting mastin with no other options around.

The ffery bit is REALLY bad and has me less concerned about the wagon. Part of why I called ffery out is that....its 2 days to deadline and they have yet to actually do anything towards settling on a lynch that THEY want. I mean I guess Beli wanted mastin, but dat dissonance. so mastin saying that Im manipulating ffery or trying to get her to place a"hasty vote" when the DL + wagons are currently pointing towards them ending up there by default is just dumb. And suggesting that ffery not lay a hasty vote when encouraged to do so...at 2 days to dl...IS actually manipulative and stripping context form the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also Mastin, while I do agree with your arguments and reasoning for lynching AP (my original vote on him was because of that), there were some flaws related to your bias. Although you did retract one of them (not attempting to understand him because you assume all of them are impossible to understand), I have a question for you. You say AP acts differently in a way that you never see him do. Having seen the scum him, I can also infer that he is acting different from his scum self. Is this your perspective, or how he acts is still more aligned to his scum self than his town self?

K, want to say that Clyton is becoming a stronger townread for me, particularly for his openness about why he voted me. I'd expect scum to try and have some justification for voting me on top of that. Kind of weak explanation, but Im really not seeing scumplay from Clyton here.

But eh, mastin literally just posted a meta wall of me and has been assigning scummeta to my play all game at every turn, so I dont see the point of what you are asking mastin here. Mastin clearly is arguing that I am playing scummily. (Shes wrong, but :/)

[AngryPidgeon]

Total. God. Damned. Revenge.

Yes, revenge. Revenge for Anything goes by getting you correctly lynched on D1 despite you howling about how town-me wouldn't do X or Y, which hilariously enough, is exactly what you did in AG mafia! So ya.

And if you are town, I hope you ask spoilers from Cabd so you can take a lesson from what happened.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mastin, if you are alive in LYLO (which you will be if you aren't lynched), it is an auto-loss, isn't it?

Wait...she claimed before that her vote starts applying once there are 9 people left. So I dont know how she is comparing this to a treestump role. Unless that was a lie in the first place to keep us interested in NOT PLing her for effectively being hated.

[AngryPidgeon]

You can also see that I was being a lot more confrontational than normal for large segments of the game, specifically because I wanted that nightkill.

This makes no sense. If you wanted a NK you should have softed an investigative PR...not ... played aggressively. The fact that you are aggressively shoving TOWNIES AKA ME AND LIKELY FOXHOUND/BRO is doing nothing towards getting you NKd if you are town.

[AngryPidgeon]

The PM was quite specific.
All forms of death except lynch.

While you make a good point that having conf-town BP is nice, I have role related reasons to believe that you will not be confirmable as town if you are. Especially not now that you've claimed.

[AngryPidgeon]

Granted, Im diving into setup spec a little bit when I say that and Ive never played a Cabd game before, but I strongly doubt anyone will be able to come out and say you are town. And doing so would out a cop to do that anyhow or keep on with you being ?? and lynchbait. I know you dont support having cops investigate lynchbait. At least they shouldnt really.

[AngryPidgeon]

I AM PUTTING MORE EFFORT INTO COOPERATION THAN LITERALLY THE ENTIRETY OF THE REST OF THE GAME.

NO YOU ARE NOT. YOU REFUST TO TALK ABOUT PV. YOU ACCUSE ME OF BUSSING PV WHEN I SAY THINGS ABOUT HIMTHAT YOU LIKE. I OFFER TO FLASHWAGON PV AROUND DL INSTEAD OF CONTINUING THIS GODDAMN CRAWL INTO A 1V1 THAT -YOU- ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR. I TRIED TO TALK ABOUT CF. I TRIED TO GET YOU TO RECONSIDER YOUR DUMB BORK READ.

NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL.

THEN I MOVE OVER TO VOTE YOU SINCE YOU ARE THE ONLY ACTUAL WAGON AT DEADLINE AND YOU AND RBD CIRCLEJERK ABOUT IT BEING A SCUMMY VOTE. NOPE. THATS OPPORTUNISTIC AND TERRIBLE.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP could not be this fucking dense as town as to not understand the role. LITERALLY. COULD. NOT. It's a fairly fucking self-explanatory role.
I can't die, except by lynch.
I can't successfully vote, except when there's 9 players or fewer.
Not being able to die but losing your vote is a treestump.
The abilities when combined make...a fucking modified treestump.

Fine but you are pushing your claim like it makes you conftown which gives me these gagging impulses.

And you selling your play like you were~trying~ to get shot is really REALLY sketch and EXACTLY what I did as scum in GoC mafia where I talked about how I wanted to get investigated in order to be conftown BP.

[AngryPidgeon]

The difference between my scumgame and towngame.
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FUCKING NIGHT AND DAY.

And this is the day.

THEN HOW HAVE YOU NOT SEEN WHAT IM DOING.

When I claim you are going to be like "Ohhhhhhh" in the dead thread.

But seriously. I dont get. How you even possibly believe half the shit you've posted about me. Its almost all flatout wrong and you HAVE been doing precisely what you've accused me of on various fronts.

And trying to pin literally anytihng and everything on me, more and more desperately as DL approaches and refusing to discuss common scumreads with me. I dont get it. I really dont. Please take a break if you are town. If scum then just disregard all this cause Im wassting my breath. But if you are town, please just take a break fro mafia to calm down.

[AngryPidgeon]

NO YOU ARE NOT. YOU REFUST TO TALK ABOUT PV.

I DID TALK ABOUT PV. It's literally right there in my damn posting.

I TRIED TO TALK ABOUT CF.

...As a scumread of yours. No sell.

I TRIED TO GET YOU TO RECONSIDER YOUR DUMB BORK READ.

...Which, again, makes no fucking sense.

1) You flatout ignored me when I brought him up as a compromise wagon.
2) "Oh AP is scumreading CF, fuck that". Ya mastin ,thats proof that you are workign with me at all.
3) "Oh Bork as scum? Thats dumb" Ya mastin, thats proof that you are working with me at all.

[AngryPidgeon]

This noise is fucking awesome for scum regardless of either of your alignments because it's p much burying all other content.

I cannot possibly agree with this statement any more than I do right now. I just cant stop arguing though. I have a problem.

[AngryPidgeon]

Fuck that. Bulletproofs' sole fucking goal is to get shot at as many times as they can.

And? You certainly haven't done anything that points to that being your goal. It feels a gosh darn lot like me, in GoC, skimming through things Ive done and trying to paint a picture that shows town motivation with my role. (Lesser extent me in balto invitational with coughing up fake crumbs).

That is how you think yes. But its not a TOWN thought process explicitly. Im sure you are quite capable of thinking as either alignment. What do you hope to gain arguing with me anyways?

[AngryPidgeon]

I want the noise to stop but would strongly prefer to not focus elsewhere. I am scumreading MastinSSK and AngryPidgeon with MastinSSK being the stronger read. I don't mind lynching AP and I don't rule out bussing or scum theater.

You want AP-Mastin scumgame interactions? We have one. Dual-iso us.

We don't bus.

Ok, no mastin. I have a realllly hard time believeing that anyone with a town PM can LOOK AT OUR ARGUMENT and think we are scum/scum. Its like fucking Kimor from MattP's mini normal back when whose emotional reaction to us was so off base that he had to jsut be scum. THIS. IS. KIMOR. HOW DO YOU NOT SUSPECT THAT?

I had plans.

You were a schemer. You had plans.

[AngryPidgeon]

Prove me wrong. Get support going there. Go ahead and try. I don't actually have a vote. So I can't control the flow onto there at all. YOU. CAN. But you won't.
And I'm working with everyone, not just you. And your F-16 read is wrong. And your Bork read I simply don't understand.

I am SO going to regret this.
UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Peregrine

[AngryPidgeon]

WE'RE LYNCHING PV TODAY, EVERYONE VOTE IT UP PLEASE.

[AngryPidgeon]

EXCEPT LITERALLY ALL MY FUCKING POSTING HAS BEEN FOCUSED ON GETTING SCUM TICKED OFF ENOUGH TO NIGHTKILL ME.

This noise is fucking awesome for scum regardless of either of your alignments because it's p much burying all other content.

Ffery nailed it. You are basically doing the exact thing I kept you alive for in HPATPL mafia. Loudly yelling at townies and stifling discussion. So no you really aren't and I dont think you as town believes this.

I know you dont have a vote but get on PV please.

[AngryPidgeon]

Like hell it isn't. The scum-me plans victory. Not fakeclaims. The scum-me maps out manipulations. Not laying out a claim.

This coming from the girl who REFUSES to claim miller as scum because SHE WANTS TO KEEP HER FAKECLAIM OPTIONS OPEN. Id look up when you said that but I cant remember where. But I KNOW that this is BS. I know that you consider fake claiming a large part of being scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

for FUCKS sake

...

You've been softing having A ROLE. In a PR MADNESS GAME WITH A MOD KNOWN FOR BEING UNPREDICTABLE.

That doesnt MEAN anything. You HAVE kept options open.

FWIW, I believe the claim. I really do. I think you are going to flip either town herpaderp treestump or scum herpaderp treestump. Your argument is just bad though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Nobody is lynching RBD, the end.

Unless they gladiate a cop or something then I'll lynch them. but no they are town as fuck regardless of mastin flipping anything.

[AngryPidgeon]

(Also Im really amused you said you thought I was laughing at you earlier. I've been banging my head into my keyboard and trying to get work done and failing miserably over here)

[AngryPidgeon]

^ How much interest do you guys having in lynching PV?

[AngryPidgeon]

I can see the role in a cabd game, after something similar was used in a game with a somewhat botched design that he and I played. And there was a much less interesting modified treestump role in a tales upick mini that was wrecked almost before it started (and incidentally directly led to the tales mafia trilogy this game is a part of.

Ya I've never played in a Cabd game but at some point Cabd has bragged something to the effect of "any claim is lynchable in a Cabd game"

[AngryPidgeon]

WELP. Point stands that we really dont have time to do something this Day unless we do it fast. ITs either msatin or we wagon someone who people actually agree on, which needs to happen ASAP for it to be viable.

As far as compromise lynches go, Pv is the best.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also could you tell me what posts give you the impression that Kagura is town?

[AngryPidgeon]

For myself, I am aware I have a tendency to see his play as scummy lately regardless of his alignment. I'm cautious about the read.

But you don't actually have any reads other than ?mastin?

Are you OPPOSED to a PV lynch? Im p sure hes scum here, he doesnt look town at all.

[AngryPidgeon]

PeregrineV (1): Kagura
PeregrineV (1): AngryPidgeon

[AngryPidgeon]

I agree about PV though, I liked the page he showed up for, and I don't ordinarily like anything from him ever.

What on earth did you like about it? And ya I mostly agree about Cf. Calling mastin and me scum/scum is really just....like...no? How could someone think that.

P-edit:
Comment on PV then? Are you considering any wagons other than mastin/PV? Cause if not, I could use some support on my PV wagon. Anything I can do to troll CF really.