Tales of You (Endgame)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Yaaar, we be a hated miller age cop gladiator!

I dare ye treeweasels to counterclaim!

VOTE: Rancid Broderick Drake

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Rancid Broderick Drake is beyond obviously scum or at worst anti-town.

How did ye know?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I cannot in the life of me ever seeing this actually being a thing

That not be our actual role name, by the way, just a description of our role.

Also, it's a modified gladiator but me other half left that out.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I got some rum,
But ye didn't say please,
So yer not getting any,
Unless ye get down on yer knees!

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I like ye mac,
Will ye join me crew?
We'll sail the seven seas,
And there's plenty of rum, too

But I not be thinking,
That mafiassk be scum,
Or at the very least,
Scummy posts have yet to come

That first post of his,
While reminiscent of another,
Could come from town or scum,
Not necessarily one more than the other

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

We'll sail into ports each night,
And get smashed off our faces,
Then sail away as the sun be rising,
And travel to different places

We'll call ourselves the Jolly Rhymers,
We'll be feared throughout the lands,
Every one of us shall rhyme,
And have hooks on our hands

Do ye think that's a lame name?
It's open for discussion,
But ye better take it seriously,
Or there'll be grave repercussions

I do see some things that,
Point to MastinSSK being town,
But not enough to have a firm read,
And some things make me frown

What do ye think of CarbonFiber?
His entrance be piss poor,
It felt very forced and, well,
I kind of expected more

I'm tuning out the back-and-forth,
Between RG and the Fox,
I hope they stop spamming soon,
Or I'm ignoring all their talks

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I have no experience,
In completed games with him,
But that opening pinged for me,
Because it was rather dim

I would be voting him right now,
But of our vote I have no control,
Me only job in this hydra,
Is to spam it up and troll

I be doing a good job so far,
At least that's what I think,
Or maybe I'm doing a shit job?
I've had too much to drink

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

It's rather simple to link ISOs,
Ye do it just like this
Replace [] with %5B%5D,
It's a piece of piss

I see his opening there,
And it's different from what is here,
But that doesn't mean he be town,
It just means that it's unclear

I don't care much for meta, anyway,
His opening still looks weak,
I'll keep me one good eye on him,
And see if his other posts reek

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

It will take me a good while to figure out the pirate unless I can sort Nati posts from zmuffin posts, and I think they're being pretty obscure about it right now.

I haven't posted yet.

-Nati

Aaaaargh, pretend ye didn't see this.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I saw me first matey rhymed
So I decided to tried
Mastin's prob town
but their buddying me is sound
so scum they may be
We shall see

I don't know about Titan
I'm kinda frightened
That Athena is back
In which case give 'em the rack!

VOTE: Titan

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I've never known
mastin to talk about tone
shouldn't that hydra know
that is my show

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

the lass's words are curious
I'm gonna consult rquieux
but our vote is like gold
in the hands of the bold

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Captain's Log

As I soak me quill in ink,
And bring it to the parchment here,
I've had way too much to drink,
The time I be out of rum is near

We been sailing on the open seas,
For thirty days and nights,
A mountain of treasure we've seized,
After winning countless fights

Me crew's come down with scurvy,
And I not be doing too well meself,
A storm made me ship go topsy-turvy,
And all me stuff's fallen off me shelf

But still we sail on and on,
Because pirates are b
And never shal
Antidisestab







AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGHH damn me drunken state,
Spilled me rum all over the place,
And I can barely see straight,
Because I'm completely off me face

I be about to pass out now,
Me cabin's a right mess,
Perhaps I should take a sobreity vow
...
...
Yaaaar, I be pretty funny when I jest

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Tammy, ye are very wrong,
About my read on ye in previous games,
While my ability to read ye might not be strong,
It's not as bad as ye claim

In Titans, I didn't ask Nati to replace,
Because I had trouble reading ye,
Nati will tell ye I just wanted space,
Ye weren't even a scum read for me

And in Too Many Heads I never wavered,
But I backed off to work with someone,
For the situation was not one I favoured,
I wanted the town to become one

But the read on ye here be Nati, not me,
And I'm not interfering,
I have no strong feelings about you from what I've seen,
All ye be doing is jeering

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Nati, please don't impersonate me,
It's not a nice thing to do,
I know it brings ye a lot of glee,
But please take things seriously, too

-Muffin

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

-Nati*

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

No, wait, I was right the first time

-Muffin

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm pretty terrible at reading muffin. I think I have a useful nati-model but so far, there aren't any unequivocally nati-posts for me to think about. I like their interaction with Mac. To me, that level of playfulness usually looks town, but it's not very useful for content-based reading.

I am super obvtown, though,
Anyone could see that,
But if you really don't know,
We can have a nice chat

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I do not like the posts,
Of the Fox and the Hound,
I would like to have them both,
Be put down at the pound.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I let scum bait me, again, because I suck and never learn to not let them bait me and frustrate me

Ye say scum were baiting ye,
But just to be clear,
Do ye mean MastinSSK and me?
Or who do you think is scum here?

I be as town as can be,
And while not definitely true,
As far as I can see,
MastinSSK be town, too

I entered this game pretty damn strong, relaxed and happy, that's super duper obvious.

So ye do claim,
But from what I've seen,
Your start to this game,
Did not look that green

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Mastin, will ye join me crew?
I think our reads are almost the same,
Together we can make scum spew,
And it be easy to win this game

I have a fair few town reads cracked,
Tell me what ye think of these,
There's LB, CF, Kagura and Mac
With them I'd sail the seas

RG is a maybe-town read,
But I do not like his play,
And cupcake could be town but he'd,
Be more in an area that's grey

I also see Clyton town,
For the same posts ye quoted,
In our QT I wrote it down,
Before yer 320 was noted

The rest of the game I'm still figuring out,
There's plenty of work to do,
Which is why I will not mess about,
I want ye in me crew

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Regardless, he is doing a good job giving off a null read with one head trolling with the pirate approach and the other head hiding behind that trolling head. Either way, he has something to hide.

I think ye be a bit confused,
Because while some of me posts be subpar,
This might leave ye a bit amused,
Only one head has posted so far

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

It's not

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I am led to believe you are hiding something.

Surely ye jest,
Surely ye chide,
What could I possibly,
Have to hide?

Code Blue, Code Blue,
Remain calm and still,
But Clyton is onto us,
So he'll be our N1 kill

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

The problem is, there's a lot of legitimate concerns about Carbon Fiber

I can perhaps see,
Where ye be coming from,
But it's different for me,
I don't share your qualms

I have small issues with their play,
But most of it seems fine,
I'm calling them town for today,
Because I'm reading between the lines

I don't feel any greater,
About others ye mentioned
But I may call them town later,
If they seem well-intentioned

For now though, they're unsorted,
Maybe soon that will change,
The scum will be thwarted,
Blegh... This rum tastes strange

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Ye'd have to be thick,
To think MastinSSK be scum,
I'll suck a dog's dick,
If their scum flip does come

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

That's disgusting, dude,
Don't say things like that,
It's awfully crude,
Why not just eat a hat?

-Muffin

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I apologise for Nati,
Like I said, it's crude
He's sometimes quite batty,
And can be rather rude

-Muffin

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I remember grilling Tammy
She was in quite the fright
I assume she towned it up
Which was the goal of the night

unvote

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I had it all wrong
muffin taught me how
I never really sang the siren's song
my lyrics still make people say ow

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

That post
it blows
four lines
make this flow

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Mac, ye deserter,
Ye treacherous scum,
Ye better watch yer back,
Because yer time will come

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Hey F16,
Are ye scum?
Muffin wants to battle ye,
I'm calling him dumb

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Oh, Mac, ye disappoint me,
When yer posts do not rhyme,
When I see posts like the above,
It hurts me every time

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Mackie when you're touching my soul,
In the candle light,
Mackie when I lost control,
In the heat of the night

Mac, Mac, Mackie,
Can't get you off my mind

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Spoiler:

Well that makes things simple.

All we need to do is get access to the scum QT to see whether Tammy is in there saying, "why aren't they lynching me?"

If she isn't saying that, she's probably town.

I'm amazed it took someone this long to suggest this.



-Nati

me

-Nati

Nati

please post on hydra account only

ty

nah muffin lets both be super lazy and not post in hydra

Even though I should not,
Because I be a pirate,
I do this so our dear mod,
Does not become irate

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

In general, I think there is such a 'look how town I am!' quality to many of their posts that I actually have a pretty passionate scumread on them.

I've gone over this before,
Because this argument really smells,
For mastin, this isn't actually scummy,
If anything, it's a town tell

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I would expect that this,
Is something F16 should know,
For a meta-heavy player,
Why does his mastin read blow?

He goes on and on about mastin,
Forming a bad read on him,
But it's almost as if he's given mastin's ISO,
Nothing more than a simple skim

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Me other head disappoints me,
I told him to look town,
Stop being lazy, ye scallywag,
Why ye be letting me down?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I quickly re-read through Too Many Heads mafia where Rancid (Nati and Muffin) nailed down Mastin as scum with ease and their strong townread on him here gives me pause. I doubt Mastin would be able to manipulate them into lynching people that townread him. Rancid, I can see why certain things may not make him scum but what's the big picture? Can you elaborate on why he is so obviously town? One thing I noticed you picked up on in Too Many Heads was that Mastin can't replicate "whimsy" as scum. Is he whimsy here? Or has he done anything else that he can't replicate so far?

First things first,
The hydra game was mostly me,
After D1 ended,
There were like two posts by Nati

There are certain things,
I think mastin can't fake,
The way he calls himself town,
Is just the icing on the cake

He tried it in the hydra game,
But he couldn't do it well,
He tried it in the Titans game,
But he still set off bells

I don't profess to have,
Complete accuracy in reading him,
But my opinion is that the chances,
Of a scum flip be slim

I think ye be off,
And should be looking a bit deeper,
His tone comes across as town,
I don't want to send him to the reaper

I could be very wrong,
Mastin could have fooled me,
But none of yer arguments are,
Ones with which I could agree

I can't really go,
Into much more detail,
Itz da feels of it, matey,
I just hope I haven't failed

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

How do you feel about cephvail?

I dunno where me other half,
Be at with his reads,
Our QT is mostly me,
Giving opinions on misdeeds

I think FoxHound be scummy,
Mostly for their tone,
Their content comes across flat to me,
It feels like a dull drone

It feels different from what,
Ceph was like in that large game,
But I don't know if his alignment,
Is why it doesn't feel the same

DV I dunno,
I haven't seen enough,
From what I've seen though,
I'm meh on his stuff

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I tend not to do more than skim the rhyme posts

How dare ye, ye scoundrel,
My rhymes be amazing,
Not like other boring shit here,
That leaves yer eyes glazing

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I dunno where me other half,
Be at with his reads,

Actually, this isn't true,
He's told me where he wants our vote to be,
But I told him to hold it,
So we're playing wait and see

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

This game be a slog
long intricacies, abort
we need some new grog
So we go off to port

Pirate's on strike
I think the terrorists won
This is quite trite
It's faith healer again

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Pirate's on strike

Reading some of these posts
Makes me want to slit my wrists
Don't even have the will to finish this rhyme
Something that rhymes with wrists

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Ergo, he most likely be trying to gain some sense of credibility and usefulness attached to his role in the face of the Town

I don't understand,
This should be explained,
What possible "credibility"
Was there to be gained?

Unless ye be claiming
That Jeanne didn't know
It was public knowledge
And she be putting on a show?

The more likely scenario
Is Jeanne really was unaware
Her divine revelations,
Led her astray a bit there

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

V

O

T

E

:

H

A

W

K

I

E

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I don't remember playing with ye, Lord Business

LAL

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Nati, LAL jokes aren't funny
And they haven't been
For a very long time
They're so 2013

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Do ye think
That I be town?
Please let it be so, Nacho
Don't let me down

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm just zoning out of a lot of these posts now.

Join the club
We be zoning it out, too
'coz reading this game
Makes us feel blue

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I cc. I also have this PGO thing attached to it.

It occurs to me
That people might think
We be lying about our role
Which kinda makes me blink

Regardless, this will be resolved
When we battle someone D2
And reveal their age at the start of day
So ye'll see everything was true

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I cc. I also have this PGO thing attached to it.

It occurs to me
That people might think
We be lying about our role
Which kinda makes me blink

Regardless, this will be resolved
When we battle someone D2
And reveal their age at the start of day
So ye'll see everything was true

We're def 1v1ing someone tomorrow,
Don't care if ye call us trolls,
No fucks will be given,
LolOLOLoLOloLoloL

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Do ye ever get this itch
That ye really need to scratch?
Except ye do it with ye hook
And now ye need an eyepatch

:<

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I wish! Did you read the way he came after me in too many heads?

Except in that game
He backed off from ye,
Thinking ye were town,
After a fake AtE

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

I want this group of players to burn with fucking fire: {AP, despbro, foxhound, PV, GIF}. And I've been wanting this for a while

If you really want to try and lynch me, despbro, I'll 1v1 you tomorrow

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I mean, from a theory perspective, you may as well wait for me to 1v1 you. If our gladiator ability weren't a night action, I'd be using it today, but unfortunately it is, so tomorrow it will have to be.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also, I'm pretty set in my reads right now, and since Nati has basically said he wants the numbers to thin before he tries to get involved, I've been given free rein to do whatever the fuck I want with my reads

And trust me, despbro, if it's hard to lynch me as scum, it's a million fucking times harder to lynch me when I'm actually town. If you really want to awaken this beast and take it on, I'm down for that. But I will obliterate your fucking hopes and dreams, so you better be sure you want to do this because you're going to look fucking awful if I really do start giving a shit here.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

All I'm saying is that this same thing happened in the open. You have like four players blithering at each other for however long and I simply don't have the patience to keep up with it. Like, you know how I'm reading Tammy from now on? By how much her posts make my eyes bleed. And if I wasn't an immortal sword-demon spirit thing, I would be blind right now. This counts double for f-16, too.

Like, I just can't be assed to read all these goddamn posts about literally nothing again. I'm not doing it. I was excited to play in this game, but holy shit wtf I can't handle it. ffery, mastin, AP all at least understand that brevity gets shit done.

Also you have Desp-Bro sitting here being like incredibly super scum lol. Not lying, we ARE gladiating them tomorrow if we don't lynch them today.

tldr Titan/Sheep scumteam+f-16 as secret fifth traitor and no I won't talk or even likely read your posts Tammy because when you flail this hard, I just can't stand it. I do like playing with you and all that, but ugggggh.

/rage

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

titan
kagura
carbon fiber

lord business
stalin
gyarados
cupcake panda

fox and the hound
peregrinev
angrypidgeon
mac

----------------------- <------- line of lynchability

clyton
yukari

orcinus
mastinssk
rancid drake

drake was the thor of the original set of five. lb, titan, gyarados, and stalin are all still town with the addition of carbon fiber, cupcake panda, and kagura.

cupcake is a bro read. ap's slot was below the line before he replaced in.

vote: rancid broderick drake

choo choo

Oh yeah a fun fucking fact lol is that this is the most hilarious post this game in a bad way.

Muffin you can move our vote again but i'd rather just VOTE: Sheep Us now instead of tomorrow.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Yeah I get that, but it's like, I can only handle so many games of this shit before it starts to crack. This, Empire's game, Faith Healers it's seriously demoralizing to deal with this every. single. game.

As to you f-16, scumbirds is easier for me to handle.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm resisting the urge to play misery poker with mastin.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

(Also, to any future mods, if you want to include a gladiator in your game, don't. It's a poorly designed role that shouldn't exist).

I actually agree with this though.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
^Decent townread.

2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
^Strong. STRONG. Scumread.

3 Yukari Yakumo
^Definitely a townread.

4 orcinus_theoriginal
^Vaguely townish.

5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
^Eeeeeeeeh.

6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
^Seriously, seriously town.

8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
^Pretty town.

9 ANgryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
^Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you. Sorry gonna make you cry, never gonna say goodbye, on guard for lies, and'll hurt you.

10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
^EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHH...

11 Lord Business
^Decent townread.

12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
^Either didn't learn their lesson or are scum.

13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
^Obvtown.

14 Cupcake Panda
^Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

15 PeregrineV
^Need more, vaguely townish.

16 Clyton
^Decently town.

17 Mac
^Basically obvtown.

This hydra and us are now a four player hydra. Pretty much where I am except I have PV and Katsuki as hard town.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

VOTE: Fox & Hound

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Tier list of roles that shouldn't exist:

This role should have never been made, holy fuck why did someone thing this was a good idea:

Death Godfather.

Almost as bad, but marginally less terrible:

Death Miller.

Roles that are poorly conceived and should be uninstalled:

Gladiator.
Unrequited lover (especially cross-aligned ones)
Things that give scum an extra kill in non-large games.

+Hider.

Also I ran a game with a death godfather once. It went better than expected.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

scum unrequited lovers are okay too though.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

If that's the case, his annoyance is misplaced. He could maybe address the people creating noisy back-and-forths as opposed to someone like me who is keeping noise to a minimum. There is plenty of stuff that I haven't responded to and don't intend to because I don't believe it will help me solve the game. Most of my back-and-forths are questions, conversations, or analysis/explanations of reads.

~ F-16

nnnnnooooooooooooooooooopppppppeeeeeeeeeee

I'm the one who's been strongly town reading you for most of the game and even I paused after reading some of your posts and went, "holy shit, that was fucking terrible"

An example off the top of my head?

The second last post Nati made prior to today (441) in regards to your 435 is something I actually agree with. It fucking sucked. Not only because it was the most useless thing I'd read thus far in the thread, but because it wasn't even the first fucking time you said it; you were literally repeating shit you had already said about Mac in previous walls that were just as tedious to read.

Another example?

This is one I personally brought up in the QT because I was like, "yeah, you could actually be right about f16". 639 was awful on a whole lot of levels. So awful that when I asked Nati to rate it on a scale of Awful to Horrendous, he had to come up with a new word for it; Awfurrendous. Which I thought was a great way to describe it. In that post, you are asking Cephrir what is quite possible the most useless piece of information you've asked about thus far; why on God's green earth would you even fucking care about why Cephrir is doing something that you've seen him do as town before? Why the fuck would you ask about that? What the fuck was the purpose of that question and in what fucking way, shape or form does it advance the game? Not only that, but like, what fucking relevance could it possibly have to anything? The middle part of this post was unnecessary and you could have left it out and no one would have cared and the final part of this post was asking a question that would have already been answered if you were paying attention to the game and actually reading. This whole post reeked of trying to come up with fake content and it is part of the overall slog of useless shit that doesn't need to be in this game.

If you really want, I'll break down every single one of your posts that I thought contained unnecessary shit, but I am in full agreement with Nati when he says what he says about your posts.

The only reason I can bear the unbearable and read the unreadable is because I row, row, fight da powah, but Nati? He's just an ordinary human being. But now the beast has been unleashed and the anti-spirals are fucked

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also we're not strictly a gladiator, we're a modified gladiator, but there is no use specifying exactly what the modifications to it are.

There are... certain possible things that can happen when we battle someone that are dependent on factors which I'm not going to be discussing probably at all this game.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

HAHA

BRO

You're so fucking clueless if you think you can actually push a lynch through on us. Good luck with that, you're just going to make yourself obvscum.

Come at me, BRO.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

BTW

CONSIDERING YOUR SCUM LIST

CONTAINS ME, MASTIN AND ORCINUS

YOU LEGITIMATELY HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT READS BEING BAD IN THIS GAME

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also, AP is still scum, and still needs to die in a fiery death. A fiery death that hopefully spreads to the houses of despbro and foxhound and kills them in their sleep

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I initially put the vote down on the Prohawk hydra for two reasons;

Partially because I thought they were scummy as fuck (which I'll get to in a minute) and partially because I had a scum read on FoxHound and I thought if I was right about Hawk being scum, FoxHound were going to bus them after I put my vote down on Hawk. Because Cephrir has a similar scum playstyle to mine in that he's not strictly a busser, but he's a flow-busser. When he senses weakness in a buddy and senses the flow of opinions tending towards a buddy, he jumps on the bus at an early venture for all the town cred it's worth. It's what I do as scum and I am fairly sure Cephrir is as adept as I am at reading flow since he does it as scum as well. I changed the flow of things slightly with my Hawk vote deliberately to see whether he was going to flow-bus Hawkie, and like clockwork, their vote came. I know it was DV who did it, but given he said Cephrir gave him the go-ahead, that's as good as Cephrir doing it.

When AP flips scum, FoxHound needs to be buried the next day.

And anyone who honestly thinks AP looks town from his entrance is either dumb or scum. Mastin is fucking right about AP. That wasn't a town entrance, and nothing he's done since then looks town.

Prohawk was scum. AP is scum.

The only reason NOT to lynch them today is because BRO is basically the most obvscum he's even been in a game.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also fucking lol at thinking PV is town lurking here. Or that GIF not giving a single fuck about this game is coming from a town mindset.

PV is totally disengaged from the game in a way that he usually isn't when he's town. There's no signs of effort. There's no signs of analysis. There's no signs of anything that he does when he's town. The way he's disengaged from the game here reminds me of how he was playing in the recently finished mafiassk large. It's the same lack of analysis. The same lack of effort. I'm pretty sure PV is scum here and I know he looks like scum in every single fucking game but this is so blindingly obvious that I don't know how others cannot see it, let alone think he's town.

As for GIF, not only is there a lack of town stuff from him, but him being a complete lurksack is exactly the sort of thing I associate with his scum game. He doesn't like being scum and it shows in his attitude towards the game.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

HEY MUFFIN.

AP USED THAT EXACT ENTRANCE, NEARLY VERBATIM, IN A GAME WHERE HE WAS TOWN. AND WHERE MASTIN WAS SCUM AND PUSHED HIM FOR IT.

SO TELL ME MORE ABOUT HOW IT'S "NOT A TOWN ENTRANCE"

So tell me this,

You see someone post something they've done as town before, "nearly Verbatim," and you think that points to them being town?

You know what I do when I'm scum? Try to fucking imitate my town game. You know what I don't do when I'm town? Repeat the same boring entrances I've done in another game and then criticise people who aren't reading me as town because of it when it's something that's easily fucking faked.

This is really simple stuff, and part of the reason you're obvscum is because town-you would know how fucking basic this is.

But instead you don't give a shit.

Because you're scum.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I am fully aware GIF has had access issues recently, but it's not the lurking itself that makes him scum, it's his whole attitude towards the game. I thought I made that pretty clear with the last sentence, but apparently I need to spell it out very clearly for the slower players

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Slower player*

Shouldn't have used plural there

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Yes, and if you were following along from the beginning, you'd know I made it pretty fucking clear I want all five of you to die fiery deaths.

I am aware one of you is town, but since whichever one of you it is has a secret scum win con, they die with the rest of them.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

If I had multiple dayvig shots, I could end the game with 5 bullets is what I'm basically saying

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

As evidenced by mastinscum trying to drive a poorly reasoned train through his replacement, he wasn't scum.

And yet you guys apparently thought he was scum up until he was replaced.

So this is a load of shit.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Hey BRO

Just so we're clear

You think we claimed Hated Miller Gladiator out the gate because... we're scum who decided claiming an extremely negative utility role that was easily provable was a gooooooooood idea because... DERP DERP DERP I'M BRO AND I'M HOPING NOBODY THINKS ABOUT THIS AND THIS MISLYNCH GOES THROUGH WITHOUT ME LOOKING OBVSCUM

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

One of these things does not follow from the other

You thought they were scum. You voted them because you thought this. GIF asked why people thought this. And you answered with that. Which is a load of shit.

I kinda wanted to hear from RBD why Elemental/AP is scum.

I'll get to it soon

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also #1225 is a good starting place for why I think AP is scum, but the whole exchange with mastin was bad.

Anyway, getting to it soon.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

we thought they might be scum

now, we don't think they are scum

it's almost as though something really drastic changed in the interim

You cannot be this dense

Regardless
of
whether
your
read
changed
the
initial
reasons
for
the
read
still
stand

Your read changed AFTER AP replaced in. Which means it had nothing to do with the ElementalHawk hydra, and since GIF specifically asked why people thought the ElementalHawk hydra was scum (given he claims he was townreading 3dice's posts), your bullshit answer doesn't apply here

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also why do you even think AP is town, foxhound? Respond to #1225 please.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

1226 even.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Because not only is he trying to pass it off as an "obvtown" entrance (because he knows he's done it as town before, but he also isn't stupid enough to realise it's something he could fake as scum, so it's not a fucking obvtown entrance, and him calling it obvtown is because he's hoping people draw the parallels and call it obvtown because he's done it as town before) but I think it's an entrance he specifically did as scum trying to imitate his town game because I already thought the fucking slot was scum prior the the replacement.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Like did you even fucking read the back and forth between AP and mastin?

He's calling his own entrance obvtown

When it's so easily fucking fakeable as scum that it's not funny

Because, as you said, it's just a fucking nearly verbatim imitation of an entrance he's done as town before. He knows people in this game know he's done it as town before. It's not a fucking difficult thing to do as scum. But he calls it obvtown and he's hoping people look at it and think he's town because he's done it as town before.

It's the exact fucking move he'd pull here as scum, and the way he interacted with Mastin after it is further evidence of this

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

MastinSSK, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but we make haggis today, then hunt the larger game tomorrow. Please.

-muffin

he wants you to stop posting because it crushes his spirit having to read back and forth walls of bullshit that leads nowhere

i, on the other hand, love wall wars, so when i get home im going to make this game a fucking nightmare if they're labouring under the illusion it's actually possible to lynch us here

-Nati

And I'm quoted these posts,
So our dear mod, Cabd
Remains happy with us
... ... ... What the fuck rhymes with Cabd? Kebab'd?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Rehabed?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Seriously, what rhymes with Cabd?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

How did I not think of those?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

His #478 was very transparent and town. What exactly was it articifial and convenient?

How was it transparent and town?

I see some comments that could maybe make you think that, but most of it was so neutral that it made it look like he was just padding the post. After I read that post, I basically wrote in our QT, "I think they're scum, but I don't know enough about 3dice to make a judgment on whether it's just their playstyle that looks scummy". Nati said it might just be playstyle but whatever. A lot of the things he commented on weren't alignment relevant, it felt like he was just throwing things out there for the sake of content, and the reads list he came up with at the end felt fake. Particular the foxhound and mastinssk reads

What bothered me most, and what eventually led to me voting them, was Prohawk taking a back seat and then coming up with 674. Particularly the last part.

Also didn't like Prohawk's next post where ffery basically asked him for an opinion on FoxHound, he says he's on it, comes back two days later and... nothing.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also why am I getting "because AP is scum" when I asked for "why is EH scum"

Because they're the same slot?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I don't know why you are so hung up on the entrance.

Because BRO is trying to say that him repeating an entrance he's done before as town makes it a town entrance here.

The interactions with mastin expressed a lot of the exact same frustrations I've been feeling with them the whole game but that I haven't really put into so many words

The interactions with mastin were him trying to get mastin of his back. It's the same thing mastin did in the hydra open.

There's the treating mastin as town bit, which I don't think I could honestly maintain even if I believed it when someone was making as incredibly shitty a case on me as that one

Except AP basically needs to do that. If he tried to push mastin-scum here, it'd practically be a scum claim

Again, it is the same thing mastin tried to do in the hydra open with AP. He had no choice.

The mini reach to me in 1113 was a nice little bit of morale that doesn't do much in the way of scum motivation and gave me a little more energy to not just give up

. . . . .

Even if you are town, why couldn't this be simple buddying?

Nothing here is a good reason to think AP is town.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Especially if you were previously scum reading the slot like you apparently were.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Like Mastin looks really obvtown here and you're hiding behind the mask of "omg I always read Mastin as scum!" to call him scum which is a load of bullshit.

AP knows Mastin is town, so he really has no fucking choice but to call Mastin town and try to convince Mastin to back off.

This is why the exchange happened the way it did.

The thing with the exchange, though, is that it was a load of shit from AP.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

That puts me with 9 townreads now leaving MastinSSK, Rancid, Clyton, PereV, Cupcake, AP, GIF

That reminds me

Another thing I thought was manufactured about your play was how you seemed really confident with your town reads way too early in the game, and I do not believe you have 9 solid town reads in this game, either

This was another niggle I had with calling you town

It also doesn't help that your PoE group includes one slot I know to be town, two slots I think are very likely town (MastinSSK and Clyton, who I personally have as far stronger town than you, Tammy, et al), and a third slot that seems more likely to be town than not (Cupcake, though my feelings here aren't particularly strong).

Also how the fuck do you have a gut town read on PV?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

At the point you mentioned you had 5 town reads you'd bank the game on, my immediate reaction was "bullshit"

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I've got five solid townreads and narrowed down scum to four of the remaining eleven.

Oh yeah, this was the point and the specific post that made me think, "bullshit"

Especially given one of your oh-so-solid town reads was FoxHound. The rest I could maybe understand, but even then, I did not believe you as town would really think your reads were infallible that early in the game.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Solid isn't relative when you're saying you have narrowed it down to 4 scum in 11

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Wait RBD is ACTUALLY a hated miller gladiator something?

Yes. Nati also kinda flavour-claimed as well in a subtle-but-not-so-subtle way.

100% not trolling.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Everything is opinion here, and I still believe Tammy was much the same before the vote as after

So if you ever change your mind about mastin and call him town, am I to take that as a scum claim? Because he's obvtown now. So if you ever come around to it after this point, that would make you scum pretending you didn't see it before or something?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I don't expect you to actually respond to that, btw, I'm just illustrating how downright fucking stupid your argument is

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and

I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

I want this group of players to burn with fucking fire: {AP, despbro, foxhound, PV, GIF}. And I've been wanting this for a while

If you really want to try and lynch me, despbro, I'll 1v1 you tomorrow

Where did this come from?

This actually came from our hydra QT sorta. Muffin's so good as scum that people, regardless of how much obvtown he gives off, always air suspicions at him. I've seen it happen first-hand.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I be pretty far behind so I think we can all agree the best way to catch up is by responding to each post since whenever it was I last posted

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo here goes

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

CF less so, but it could be from feeling like my overall play style is in a state of flux and F-16's meta-based questioning of me gives me the feeling that I need to stay within my usual envelope, but it doesn't FIT.

Ffery, what do you mean by this?

Also, you said that you are concerned Nacho hasn't approached you with his reads but I see you haven't either. You had similar concerns with me early game. Do you generally prefer to be approached for comparing notes as opposed to pro-actively asking it of others?

~ F-16

Your post is actually a pretty good example of what I mean. What I generally prefer doesn't matter. I'm outside the general preferences envelope this game. You're apparently trying to tailor your interactions with me to what you think I should expect. For, me that's not the stuff reads are made of. The dance isn't choreographed in advance.

And I've actually reached out to nacho at least a couple times and haven't gotten much if anything in response.

I don't know what to say about this post

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I was sort of hoping for Muffin's response to that one: you aren't interesting enough for me.

Did nacho write this post? Nacho's right to read me has been revoked

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

ALSO SHE THINKS BREAKFAST WITH STALIN IS A FUNNY NAME
I LIKED SCUMFUCK MORE

So did we!

This seems like an unnecessary posts that adds nothing to the game

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Oh, God, this is going to take a while

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

CF less so, but it could be from feeling like my overall play style is in a state of flux and F-16's meta-based questioning of me gives me the feeling that I need to stay within my usual envelope, but it doesn't FIT.

Ffery, what do you mean by this?

Also, you said that you are concerned Nacho hasn't approached you with his reads but I see you haven't either. You had similar concerns with me early game. Do you generally prefer to be approached for comparing notes as opposed to pro-actively asking it of others?

~ F-16

Your post is actually a pretty good example of what I mean. What I generally prefer doesn't matter. I'm outside the general preferences envelope this game. You're apparently trying to tailor your interactions with me to what you think I should expect. For, me that's not the stuff reads are made of. The dance isn't choreographed in advance.

And I've actually reached out to nacho at least a couple times and haven't gotten much if anything in response.

I see your most recent reach out, and it will be answered.

I don't have anything to say about this, either.

OK I've filled my posting quota for today. So will do the rest tomorrow starting with the post after this one.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

RIP Nati

V/LA - mourning the loss of my hydra partner

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

His last will was that I gladiate DespBro tomorrow

With tears in my eyes, I'll carry out his wishes

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

He hasn't quit. I just haven't heard from him in a week and I suspect he's lying dead in a ditch somewhere. Poor Nati, he was a good person, he deserved more than that.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

We can only pray

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

AP's scumtell is, put in simplest terms, "You can't prove I'm scum, nyehnyeh."

Pfffffffffffft

You're so bad

I have a very simple way of proving he's scum

HEY AP

SCUMSAYSWHAT

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

That one head your talking about also didn't try to get town read in NY169.

Yeah, I did, kinda, just in slightly different ways than I normally try to as scum

Hey BRO

Just so we're clear

You think we claimed Hated Miller Gladiator out the gate because... we're scum who decided claiming an extremely negative utility role that was easily provable was a gooooooooood idea because... DERP DERP DERP I'M BRO AND I'M HOPING NOBODY THINKS ABOUT THIS AND THIS MISLYNCH GOES THROUGH WITHOUT ME LOOKING OBVSCUM

last i checked you were completely off the radar for the first fifty pages of the game

so...???

I was "off the radar" because people didn't realise it was a serious claim. I clarified it was a serious claim, so your objection here is pathetically weak.

I was also off the radar because nobody had the balls to commit to a fucking read on me because that's how shit goes now apparently, but it's not like I wasn't in the thick of things

But since you have a scum read on me, how about you talk about the reasons you think I'm scum

Because not only is he trying to pass it off as an "obvtown" entrance (because he knows he's done it as town before, but he also isn't stupid enough to realise it's something he could fake as scum, so it's not a fucking obvtown entrance, and him calling it obvtown is because he's hoping people draw the parallels and call it obvtown because he's done it as town before) but I think it's an entrance he specifically did as scum trying to imitate his town game because I already thought the fucking slot was scum prior the the replacement.

man that plan really wor--oh wait, no it didn't

so do you think ap is incompetent? why do you think scum-ap would tailor his game to you, of all people in this playerlist?

I don't have any opinion on AP as a player. I've played with him twice before (both times town) and he was average both times. I'm not sure what he's capable of as scum, but you're missing the point completely or you're just playing dumb here.

He used an opening he's used before as town, correct? You're following so far? Stop me at the point I've lost you because I know I'm talking to a special person here and I don't want to go too fast. Let's think about why he would do this. It's possible he's town and thought, "OMG, a good way to enter this game is to use an opening I've done as town before, an opening that I could easily fake as scum, and then berate people when they don't think I'm obvtown because of my opening posts! I'll call them really, really obvtown and criticise anyone who disagrees because that is a sensible thing to do!" You seem to think this is what he did. But again, I know you're a... very special person... so I'm not particularly surprised you think this. I think the more likely scenario is that he's scum and thought, "hey I'm going to imitate an opening that most of the player list has seen me do as town before and then criticise anyone who thinks it isn't a town entrance because they know I've done it as town before!" <- not only did he actually do this, but he didn't even have to bring up the past game he did it as town for comparison because it was an unconscious link that... special players like yourself... made. this is exactly the sort of thing i did in gif's touhou game with the way i approached the gaiden lynch D1; i didn't want to point out myself that it was unlike what i've done as scum in the past, i let cabd point out my usual bussing meta and then i let YOU (desp) point out that he was, in fact, wrong. i think AP was doing a similar thing here.

Gonna be honest, as much as I want to believe BRO is right about me, I really think hes going for townpoints with this gladiator push. I think he thinks its expected of him? Or hes just trying to get me on his side? BRO is an objectively good player and pushing gladiators because you got gladiated by scum once is not objectively good play.

what fucking townpoints are available for pushing a gladiator claim like 2 weeks after they claimed it when the slot has had less than zero pressure on it?

i think you're doing it not because you think it will give you town points, but because you think it's expected of you (as town, you would push a lynch on a gladiator claim is what you think. so you are not analysing things in a town way and instead you're blindly pushing this)

If that's the case, his annoyance is misplaced. He could maybe address the people creating noisy back-and-forths as opposed to someone like me who is keeping noise to a minimum. There is plenty of stuff that I haven't responded to and don't intend to because I don't believe it will help me solve the game. Most of my back-and-forths are questions, conversations, or analysis/explanations of reads.

This is a really town post.

-b

No, it isn't.

Look. I am not good at conveying why things mean to me what they do. My townread stands.

So in spite of me pointing out that your reasoning is completely flawed, you're like, "Nope, townread stands!"

K

And you wonder why people don't read you as town

If you can't handle the fact that I tend to come up with strange and seemingly illogical reasons when I'm pushed for them, you should hang me every game.

It's not that your reasons are illogical, it's that they're blatantly wrong and you don't seem to care

I suppose that does actually make them illogical... hmm

How the fuck should I be reading you as town when you don't care that you're wrong?

If you're town, I would like you to iso me again, try to be just a teensy bit objective, and tell me you still think I'm scum, and why would be appreciated but is optional. I happen to think the position that I am scum is not only untenable but becoming increasingly so.

I'm not going to ISO you. I can tell you why I think you're scum off the top of my head. All your pushes this game have come from a place that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Your mastin push is a really good example of this (I am still not sure why you actually think mastin is scum when they're really obviously not and I see you using the excuse that you always think mastin looks scummy to hide behind in the same way you did in Xenosaga) but all of your other pushes come from a place that makes just as little sense. The vote on me? What the fuck was that bullshit? Honestly. Like wow. I know it was the DV head but fucking wow. One of the most hilariously bad votes I've ever seen placed on me. And when I pointed out how fucking illogical it was, you guys just shrugged it off and said, "Nope, still not wrong!" Really. Fucking. Town. Of you guys.

I don't understand how you can even think that I should clearly think Mastin is town, because they've given me basically no reason to at all and plenty to think the opposite, ie pushing for an easy mislynch on me like it's literally a stronger conviction than most people's religions and still can't even pretend to have a reason excpet "this is soooooooooooooo scum" as though having a sufficient number of vowels in a word makes it extra convincing.

This is such a load of bullshit. Firstly, if this is your reason for thinking mastin is scum, then why isn't mastin justified in thinking you're scum. Because you literally have no reason for thinking mastin is scum that isn't virtually identical to why mastin thinks you're scum (but with less substance because mastin has more reasons to think you're scum than just this). Secondly, mastin is obvtown, and I don't expect you to see it (partially because you're scum and partially because you have no fucking clue how to read mastin). But what you should know is that I know how to read mastin and I'm telling you mastin isn't scum here. Instead of finding out why I think mastin isn't scum, you're ignoring it and going, "Nope, mastin scum! I'm right!" Again. Not. A. Town. Thought. Process.

Tell you what. Why don't you sum up all the reasons you think mastin is scum for me, so I have something to assess. Because so far I haven't seen any town thought processes coming from your push here. Convince me I'm wrong.

Muffin. There is a chance you are town. You were in 169. Does this not look exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like what happened to me in that game.

The thing is, in that game you were making logical arguments. Your points had some merit. Your attitude was completely different. In that game you even acknowledged that the people who were scum reading you had a fucking point because you knew your play wasn't town-looking at the beginning of that game and it was only after you started putting in effort that you really came across as town looking. And even then it was different to this game because in that game you were assessing things in a town-looking way. Here? Not seeing it.

The thing is I can't give examples of something that's not there. So I can't show that you're not assessing things in the same way you were in 169. So comparing this to 169 is just dumb.

If you really think it looks more like my tunnel on bulbafenix in 165, I can't help you. Because it doesn't. I actually won that argument because I got to make up nice-sounding reasons.

I actually think this is more similar to your Xenosaga play than your 169 play (I didn't, and won't, read 165 so I don't care about that). In Xenosaga, you made up similar reasons to tunnel mastin, similarly terrible reasons, while ignoring everyone pointing out that you're wrong, and hiding behind the mask of, "I always think mastin looks scummy!"

It was bullshit there, it's bullshit here.

I think you use it because mastin is an easy target to push (barely anybody reads anything mastin writes so you can look like you're having an argument with someone and know that the person you're arguing with won't be listened to)

I do not think you're taking a step back here and looking for the ways in which you could be wrong. I do not think you actually think you're right here. Or at least if you do, you could come up with better reasons for your push than you currently have.

I also think you're scum here for a reason I'd rather not talk about at this point in time but may talk about at a later time if it's convenient for me.

- drake and mastin both scumread him for his entrance posts; bro townreads him

No, I'm not scum reading AP for his entrance (though I do not think it was a town entrance). I'm scum reading him because I thought his predecessor was scum, and I do not think his play so far (up to p54, still catching up) looks town. The opening was one example, the back-and-forth with mastin was another.

If anyone reads a single one of my posts this game, make it this one.

Muffin. There is a chance you are town. You were in 169. Does this not look exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like what happened to me in that game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=400

I am not hard to win arguments against. Because I very often can't back up my actions. My stances sometimes don't make sense, and even when they do, I hardly know why I have the opinions I do.

If you really think it looks more like my tunnel on bulbafenix in 165, I can't help you. Because it doesn't. I actually won that argument because I got to make up nice-sounding reasons.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

I can't make those links work properly. But it really is worth bothering to look at them.

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing. It's seeming as though the people who normally prevent me from being a free mislynch are not interested. This bothers me, but whatever. Scum appear to have figured this out. Without them I'm little better than 2008 consistent day 1 lynch cephrir. Maybe it's not the people I think it is, but they will be on this wagon. That's not a threat, it's a promise.

I feel like the gang up on me here feels exactly like 169, and I think the people I'm fighting with are going to turn out to be scum again. Please actually think about this and make this the one time you all don't completely ignore someone posthumously if I am indeed lynched today. That is all.

This is town as fuck.

No it fucking isn't. Please don't buy that shit. The first line specifically was an appeal that's similar to ones I've made as scum in the past. The content in the post is not particularly convincing either way. It's nowhere near "town as fuck".

AP, you realize I didn't state a town read on you until after mastin/RBD started pushing you on your entrance, right?

Why didn't you?

All-in-all, Cephrir is the type of player who you have to look at the reasoning, not the wording. And his reasoning here is basically the same thing that I used to catch him in Xenogears. He's doing things that he really shouldn't be doing if he was town. Among them, his push on me. Because in Xenogears, he knew I was town and that I wasn't giving reasoning, yet he brought it up in this game as if he had never encountered it before.

IAWTP. Except that I think Cephrir can be read off of posting style. I think his scum play is similar to mine (especially in that he knows most of the ins and outs of both his scum and town games and can therefore tailor specific aspects of it to meta players) but I think there are tonal differences that distinguish his town and scum games. I'm not extremely confident I'm picking up on the right things, but I am reading him here as scum tonally - it's a different kind of vibe to the one I was getting in the hydra open and 169.

RBD's scummy as

Why do you think this? Because you've still yet to really talk about it

Today, we're lynching one of {Just Sheep Us, The Fox and The Hound, AngryPidgeon}.
RBD is going to gladiate one of the two survivors.

There's no other way the days will go.

You get no choice in who we gladiate.

RBD scumread is because they've been buddying the fuck out of mastin at every juncture, even when she's making pushes that are terribad (like the early tammy push, the CF push, etc).

That's because I have a lot of confidence in my ability to read mastin and I have a _really_ good history of reading him correctly in 100% of the games we've been in so far. I mean, granted, even when I'm scum I have to do the same thing, but thinking I'm scum because of it is about as dumb as dumb can be. If this is BRO and he read _any_ of Xenosaga, then I'm considering this a scum claim. Because he should know I do this with mastin, he's seen my approach to mastin in many games now, this should not come as a surprise to him and he should not think this means anything about my alignment (though I would argue that I don't think I'd play it the same as scum, but *shrug*)

I mean, I literally just did the same thing in the completed Xenosaga game where I read mastin as town off his opening posts and stuck with the read the entire game despite a majority disagreeing with it. And I was town there. So...? What? Am I just scum here because ~magic~?

Fast forward to your entrance, and with mastin/RBD pushing something on you as scummy that's objectively null, ESPECIALLY given that you're probably the trolliest "strong" player on site, and yeah, I'm not gonna let that shit slide.

But it's not null, and I explained why it's not null when you asked me about it. Why are you ignoring that?

Okay I actually have to finish that paper that's due in about an hour now because I was too angry at mastin/muffin to finish it last night.

It's OK. I get upset when people peg me as scum, too. :<

But, actually, I would love to talk about Xenogears, because I've been treading on fucking eggshells trying not to. Why do you think I was trying not to jump down your throat this game, it's because at first I thought you felt the same way you did in that game (i.e. "damn I see absolutely no way this can possibly be town"). I've been trying to play it off like I have substantial meta with you apart from that game but I actually pretty much don't. Anything I've claimed to know about the way you play has basically been that. You may notice that I won the argument there and came reasonably close to getting you lynched. I also scumread you in that game because I literally knew I would be jumping down your throat if I was town. And hey guess what, here I am. I know there are style issues muddying things here and I don't even give a fuck. I'm done trying to convince myself to hold back because you literally could not be scummier. For someone so concerned with how good I am at imitating my town game you sure don't seem to be considering that I was doing exactly that in Xenogears. Yet another thing that bothers me is that you would approach me in exactly the same way you did that game, with random ass scumreads. Of course I'm going to blow up on you. I really fucking hate baseless reads. It's ridiculous that you think that means anything.

All I got from this wall is that you're acknowledging mastin is playing similar to how he played as town, you're acknowledging you have absolutely no idea how to read him, but you don't care, and you aren't putting forth good reasons for thinking he's scum (rather, you're creating noise that distracts - like the above)

Except it isn't? It's the exact argument a scum-me would make to save my ass against players I know I'm caught against. Bring up weaknesses in my play (that are mostly true regardless of my alignment), bring up past games that show said weaknesses, appeal to said past games as comparisons, say "this is that, not this", and basically, appeal to aspects of my play in the current game that I specifically manipulated knowing about my own meta better than any other player.

Mastin sees it. It is, at best, a null post, but really, I think the post is exactly the sort of thing scum-Cephrir would write, so I'm leaning more towards it being a scum post than a null post.

Even if he is scum, how is it in any way more pro-town to rely entirely on the reads of an unconfirmed player than to let the game progress normally?

-b

Horrible post

How the fuck do you think mafia is played?

This is impossible to respond to. You are basically devolving into arguing that I am scum because I don't sound like scum. There is nothing I can do with that.

Firstly, I don't believe mastin was asking you to do anything with it. Secondly, it's not calling you scum because you don't look like scum; it's calling you scum because you're doing something that scum would do (selectively pick things out and pretend there are similarities to your town game and differences between this and your scum game.

This is scum confidence, it is that simple.

Do you literally know nothing about how mastin plays? Because your posting actually looks like scum confidence. Mastin's looks like mastin-posting.

muffin can fake apathy very well as scum (see 169).

Apparently not that well since I got lynched there anyway!

(But let's ignore that part)

But I don't think town muffin/nati would see the game so nearly identically.

I'm not actually sure you even know what our reads are, because Nati and I aren't even reading the game identically, let alone Mastin and I. We have some reads we agree on, and some we disagree on, and if you were following you'd know that. Just because we agree on a few key reads for similar reasons does not mean we're reading the game identically.

Further, once I've established a town read on mastin, I tend to ignore the bad pushes (because I know they are mastin-pushes rather than scum-pushes) but I don't even see the bad pushes you're talking about. What are you specifically referring to here?

Ok I would understand if you guys just had a hydra QT that you use for everything. But why did you start calling it the hydra QT, for this game

You wouldnt do that unless there was more than one QT. Its a subconscious thing. So what is this other QT you posted in for this game

This is p awful

Ceph isn't you.

I'm going to hold tight onto this read.

So is it a meta-based read, then? Or just a, "I'm going to ignore logical counter-points and say I'm right anyway because I'm a wizard!" read?

How's that not using meta working for you, oh just fine actually since this meta is not even correct

Trying to explain why I am not scum is not alignment indicative and never will be

It's not that you "explained why you're not scum" (you didn't), it's the way in which you did it that makes you scum.

And no, explaining why you're not scum isn't alignment indicative and that's not what mastin was saying, sooooooooooooooooooo YEAH

Suddenly saying "the QT.. FOR THIS GAME" means there is more than one QT and you felt the need to subconsciously specify which Nacho/Bork QT you were posting in. The one for this game. The scum QT. The OTHER GAME Qt is probably, you know, the zelda one.

This push is still p awful

Reeks of scum trying to find a "slip" to comment on

The only player in this game actually deserving of being called obvtown is Tammy.

Personally I think F-16 is almost as strongly town, but it's not "obv" or everyone would agree to it.

I don't actually think Tammy looks as obvtown as people make her out to be, but I don't have a scum read on her atm. I think the direction of a lot of her posts is pretty bad, and she's not really involved in a way that looks town, but I see some posts here and there that look kinda townish, if I squint. I'm not particularly interested in pushing her since I expect a majority of the player list is going to want to NK her at some point if she is actually town, so that'll sort itself out eventually anyway

Nati, on the other hand, seems to think she's really blatantly scum. And he's reading her based off tone or something I think? Not sure. WE HAVEN'T TALKED IN A WHILE AND I DON'T THINK HE PLANS TO READ THIS BULLSHIT

As for F-16, same deal. I think he's town but there are a lot of weird things that are putting me off calling him strongly town, and again, Nati has the exact opposite opinion here.

I didn't really like the "I feel lost so much meta I don't get" dealio. Prohawk has played in the last two tales games, and that's been the majority of the meta stuff save some more nominal things.

IAWTP and it's what specifically pinged me about Prohawk's post at that point in time. It felt like he was just trying to make up some bullshit reason for why he wasn't engaged in the game. It's similar to what I did in 169, actually, where I pretended to be overwhelmed and I really wasn't.

This game does not look like town PV btw.

IAWTP as well

Really don't get the PV town reads, especially since nothing he's doing looks to be coming from a town mindset. One thing I did as I followed the Dark Ages game is monitor PV's posting because I really wanted to be able to distinguish between his antitown town play and his scum play and one of the pointers I am using for distinguishing between the two is the sorts of analysis he does. And this game I'm not feeling a town approach to his analyses.

But can you really say this about mastin with a straight face after anything goes?

I can and I will. I said this in AOT. I said this in the Open Hydra game. Mastin makes his alignment reallllllllly fucking obvious to anyone who knows how to tell the difference between his scum and town games. I can't really help it if some people just don't have a clue how to do this, but I can say that mastin makes his alignment very, very obvious (far more than any other player I play with, IMO)

It baffles me that people can

apparently

read you but cannot read mastin. *shrug*

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

I find this reads list really fucking weird

Especially given the stuff you're saying about certain players at this point. Also I'm probably the player you have the least experience with in this player list, but you seem to have a lot of confidence in your read on me

50 shades of Christ what a scumpost.

-Beli

No, Beli, why do you do this?

I don't want to have to start calling you bellend

:<

I agree.
VOTE: MastinSSK

I don't know what it is, but I'm far more likely to join your wagon than the fox and the hound. That's for sure!

Why? What about FoxHound looks townier than Mastin?

You've seen me play as town before, right? You think I wouldn't have five solid townreads by post 450?

-FT

Was that your post or F16's? I assumed it was F16, and I do not think he'd have so many solid town reads so quickly. Did you guys discuss them and, if so, were they 5 reads you mutually agreed were solid, so much so that you were fine with, in your words, using PoE to find 4 scum in the remaining 11 players?

Also, at the time of this post (Wed April 9) I had no completed games with you, so I dunno where you were pulling this from.

I was gonna vote you before I was pinged by the Fox!

Then you really do suck at reading me!

No, I unvoted in case Tammy was actually crying.
I've always been willing to give people as much room as they'd like to talk: that doesn't mean that I still don't think they are scum.

Desp quite literally said in thread that you bought Tammy's AtE and he still thought Tammy was scum but you didn't.

I feel Muffin would be less likely to constantly troll as scum than as town, but that's not really based in any sort of evidence or reality. I still wouldn't be unhappy voting them, still reading though.

OK. Just to make this clear, what you're calling "trolling" isn't _really_ trolling since it's not like I'm being deliberately anti-town in some way, I'm just having a bit of fun with my posts. It's also not an alignment-based thing, as much as people want to insist it is, and it certainly isn't something I couldn't do as scum. Trolling would be more like what I did in the beginning of Xenosaga (especially re: Brian wagon) which

could

potentially be called anti-town (thus trolling) but even that is something I think I could get away with as scum with the right sway.

But I'm not really trolling here. There are some posts that I wrote knowing they weren't adding anything to the game (short posts with no content in them, or the Captain's Log post for example) but a majority of my posts are pretty fucking game-relevant. Why don't you have an opinion on them?

I am seeing Fox and Bro-Desp as town with Mastin/Muffin/AP scum.

Oh, goodie, I cannot wait to read the explanations for this one. Should be fucking hilarious.

Fox's reactions to the pressure on them felt incredibly genuine and most of their posting so far is relatable and makes sense. Their Disney picture presenting the Rancid vote was hilarious and natural.

This actually made me do a double-take. In what way was Cephrir's reaction to the suspicion of them natural? Instead of an actual town reaction, like I dunno, calling the fact that Mastin wasn't presenting solid reasons bullshit, or I dunno, actually giving reasons to think Mastin is scum, they're instead just going with the "create as much noise as possible and hope people don't realise that's what we're doing" routine.

I also do not believe for one second that you've never seen scum make a similar post to that "Disney picture" one. Like. Seriously? How fucking naive are you?

BRO and Desp's reads match mine very closely, I don't have a read on BRO yet but I can see eye to eye with Desp.

Since when do reads aligning make for a good reason to call someone else town? When I'm scum I specifically tailor my reads to align with other players

because

going with the flow is a good way to avoid suspicion.

Holy shit. Again. Do not believe you are this naive.

Why so much defense of FoxHound and DespBro here when what you should be doing is explaining why you think we're scum with Mastin AND AP?

That reads as town b/c it demonstrates a lack of groundedness and defined objectives that scum-AP would have (especially given that scum have day talk).

Uh, do they? Where was this stated?

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and

I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

I want this group of players to burn with fucking fire: {AP, despbro, foxhound, PV, GIF}. And I've been wanting this for a while

If you really want to try and lynch me, despbro, I'll 1v1 you tomorrow

Where did this come from?

I'm getting a little fucking tired of seeing every reads list in every game I'm in, regardless of alignment, not include me in any place except null (or possible null-scum for ~reasons~) - i mean, even when i think i'm being really fucking transparent in all of my fucking posts, apparently people have trouble reading it. OK, I get it, I've burned some people before, but it's seriously fucking annoying. If you want to know where it's coming from (even prior to 1543 ending, though I think that was partially where my frustration was coming from) it's because I don't think there's anything I could possibly do that's going to convince anyone I'm town if they simply don't want to be convinced. Which makes me apathetic as fuck. I didn't want to play this game, but Nati asked me to. I didn't want to play it because I'm over games with this player list. Not because I don't enjoy playing with you guys (in general, I have nothing against you); but because it's so fucking tiring having such a fucking high mountain to climb every time I want to get town read when I'm actually town. I'm fine with putting in that sort of effort as scum because I consider it a challenge, but as town? I don't want to have to put in mountains and mountains of effort not knowing whether I'll be successful, not knowing whether it's going to even make a difference or whether it's just going to be fucking ignored because "lol muffin could totally do that as scum". There are some things I legitimately don't think I can do as scum, and while I don't really want to talk about them in detail, I'm hoping people figure it out at some point because I'm getting fucking sick of this shit.

So yeah, when I saw the multiple reads lists in this game that didn't include my name anywhere (literally; go read every single reads list in this game and try to find my name. you can't, except for maybe one or two recently) it sapped my will. It's fucking taxing. I don't like it. I don't consider myself any harder to read than, say, a player like you, but apparently people can form town or scum reads on you easily and have difficulty putting me as anything other than null.

You realize that was probably a muffin-pretending-to-be-nati post, right?

I am both appalled and disgusted that you think I would ever do something like that

Also, all the "alt slips" bar one have been because I don't want to log into a hydra from work (so no, that wasn't me pretending to be Nati) - I was at work at the time, thus no, any RBD post then came from Nati.

IM NOT GOING TO GET LYNCHED WITH THIS ROLE AND NO IM NOT CLAIMING IT.

The two are mutually exclusive?

This could come from either alignment and I dont see why you care so much.

The way it's done makes the difference, though. And I care as much as I do because people are letting them get away with a BS point that at BEST (KEY WORD BEING "AT BEST" MEANING CAN BE AND I THINK IS WORSE!) is null.

Trying to explain why I am not scum is not alignment indicative and never will be

Again, it's the way it was done. This is something a bit difficult to describe, since it kinda ties into the magic-town stuff, about a player who either is or isn't scum. And that's part of it. A town player generally has a good idea of why they're town...but can't (or if they can, won't) point to specific things that make them town, especially not things tied to the difference/similarities between games.

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Nor scum-PV. Because there is no PV to be seen, yet, not really. PV not giving content isn't a scumtell; it's a nulltell. So it'll be easier to get a read on him after there is more content. (And if he doesn't give it, then he can be lynched. But it wouldn't be a lynched-for-being-scum; it'd be a policy-lynch, to stop dragging the game down with lack of contribution, a factor that can and has lost him games. Yet this isn't a D1 thing; this is a much later day, like at least D4, thing.)

But can you really say this about mastin with a straight face after anything goes?

He can, and can even mean most of it together, too. Problem is that he probably wouldn't be, sooooooooooooooooo, yeah.

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

These reads don't jive with your posting. Like...I should be in the 'probably town' pile as I am, but...all your posting places me in the town pile. (For that matter, I think Mac's similar.) Vice-versa for RBD. They deserve the town spot, but all your posting is saying probably-town. Red Gyarados and orc are randomly thrown in there, too.

The bits below that also feel off. The Clyton-in-rest bit in particular.

All-in-all, this reads list feels like it could come from any AP...who has posted differently. From AP as he's posted this game, this reads list feels...

off

, in an intangible way that eludes me.

Mastin wasn't a threat, she was a mislynch I thought I could get. And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids.

^Ceph's take on me last game.
Posting quickly, be back much later.

And now that I am back, I can elaborate. Basically, this is how Cephrir viewed me last game. Someone who, in spite of scumreading him, was no threat, and in fact, he thought I was mislynchable. He's got the exact same read of me this game. He doesn't think I'm a threat. He doesn't think that my scumread on him is problematic. He thinks he can actually get a lynch on me. And this attitude towards me is, again, a large part of the reason I think he's scum. (I had better wording in my head at the time, but I can't pull past-me's reasoning up.) Basically...he's playing a con game. Again. Like he was in that game. There were a multitude of comments about him being townread, and at least one or two of them were from meta if memory serves me. Because that's what he wanted them to see.

And this game, he's doing the same thing. There are a fair number of people townreading him, a LOT from meta, because that's what he wants them to see. Instead of him actually being town, he's made himself look like town. That's basically the main reason AP's scum, too, because AP's done the same damn thing. Yes. They look good, because they put effort into looking good. No, they aren't actually good. Because that wasn't their goal. They aren't aiming to be town; they're aiming to do a good job of looking town. That's my read of them, of their posting, of their situation.

IAWTP

(And I only quoted this to pad the length of this wall, lolololololol. Like I do agree with almost everything here, but yeah, didn't really need to quote this. But seriously, who the fuck is still reading this at this point? I'm pretty sure I could start ranting about penises or something at this point and nobody would even know. I think I'm going to do that, actually).

I have a penis. I'm now going to sing the penis song. It goes like this: penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis. Not a great song, but whatever, it's catchy. Once it's in your head, it stays there for a while (until it goes flaccid? HA HA I'm hilarious)

I think Mastin is about the only one who's going to catch me talking about this, and only because mastin might browse through this post looking for mentions of "mastin". But if mastin has any sense, this won't be quoted. Let other people find it.

It's conveniently about midway into my wall so I don't think anyone is going to read it. I suppose I could make very sure by drawing an ascii penis. 8====D (Not to scale). Nobody is going to see this ever, anyway. Penis, once more, for good measure

Someone did mention that it was possible I would fake this as scum and maybe it is? But I don't think it's something I would do? I don't know.

If I wasn't coming off a game where scum tried to suggest this same thing, I might be more inclined to believe this

AP is a townread for me.

Fucking blatantly lying. I know you have role information that suggests otherwise. L A FUCKING L

also lol at despbro thinking me "buddying" mastin is because im scum

gonna take that as a scum claim if bro is the one putting forth that argument

Why?
-Muffin

Because BRO's seen my approach to mastin, across multiple games. Even if he wasn't reading Xenosaga, for example, I'm sure you mentioned it to him somewhere (because you were scum reading me for a long time in that game, for much the same reason, but I shrugged it off because I know you haven't seen how I usually approach mastin). BRO on the other hand has no excuse for this. He's seen me, multiple times, read mastin off very few posts (sometimes even a single post) correctly (100% of the time). If BRO is the one trying to push the angle that it's weird for me to "buddy" mastin here, then I'm calling bullshit since it's obviously a fabricated read.

I also, in general, don't understand where their read on me is coming from, but that's another issue altogether. It would help if they explained it, but since they don't want to *shrug* I'm assuming guilty until proven innocent here

Like people start calling you suspicious and we get this "BTW IM ACTUALLY A GOOD ROLE" lobbed out for no reason.

Uh, er, um, no? I think he elaborated on that because someone specifically talked about his role possibly being useless. So uh, yeah. Not seeing where this is coming from.

Also don't really get this if you're town reading mastin (and all signs point to this being the case).

but I don't think I've ever townread muffinman so fucking hard following the series of rage posts on 47.

Well, I'm sure it's going to disappoint you when I tell you that I wasn't actually raging, it was fake rage I was experimenting with because I wanted to see if anyone would town read me for it.

Apparently it worked. So yay me, I guess?

Not that anyone is going to read this, but if they do, sorry? I am actually town but I was never angry at this game (a little frustrated that people never seem to be able to town read me, but not really). Nati said he was sorry about it in the hydra QT and I had to explain to him that I wasn't really angry. lol Nati, lol. If I were angry at you, I'd have said so in the hydra QT, thillybilly.

They're still null because I think their reasons for pushing RBD are poor, but that post was good.

Not you too, Mac,
You've been led astray!
They're not town, they're scum
Don't turn a blind eye to their play!

Just. so. many. words. to. read. through.

~Brian

HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE

If you mean the playerlist its because there are a shitload of hydras and I use my ISO like a QT thread to keep my thoughts. At some sorry point I'll have to crack through the hydra heads and look for tells, and isoing the mod+me+another player just for playerlist is a pain.

It seems far simpler to keep the names in a notepad / word document. Especially since then you don't have to keep scrolling back to the post to find out the names?

... ... ... Don't really believe you legitimately think this makes sense.

PV is totally disengaged from the game in a way that he usually isn't when he's town. There's no signs of effort. There's no signs of analysis. There's no signs of anything that he does when he's town. The way he's disengaged from the game here reminds me of how he was playing in the recently finished mafiassk large. It's the same lack of analysis. The same lack of effort. I'm pretty sure PV is scum here and I know he looks like scum in every single fucking game but this is so blindingly obvious that I don't know how others cannot see it, let alone think he's town.

I used to be "hard town". What happened?

I am pretty sure you have me confused with someone else? I have not once called you town in this game. I am pretty sure Nati hasn't either. I know I haven't called you town because at no stage of this game have I thought that anything you've posted looked like it came from a town mindset.

Since you are REALLY sticking with this, when you gladiate, if it take 8 to lynch the other guy, does it take only 7 to lynch you? Or, is your hated modifer "always on", as it it ALWAYS takes one less than normal to lynch you?

Um, two things here:

Why would I answer this question? In what possible way could it benefit you or anybody else to know this information if I haven't already deemed it fit to share.

Is knowing the answer to this question going to advance the game in any way, shape or form? Because I can't see this as anything other than role fishing, and I cannot possibly fathom how my answer to this question would do anything to change how you're viewing the game at the moment. So, uh, yeah

Basically, I refuse to answer any questions that are role-related this game; when I deem it necessary, I might share some information, but I will not answer questions about it other than on a need-to-know basis.

Oh and RBD in AP pile

massive amounts of :shifty eyes: here

(Also the only real resistance to this is coming from derps. Like F16, DespBro and FoxHound, and there's a preeeeeeeeeeettty decent chance of scum in those names sooooooooooooo yeah)

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

Not fucking like this, and town-PV probably wouldn't ask a question like this, phrased in this way

There's a severe lack of direction and analysis in your posts, PV. Sup with that?

Ok softball game to go to. Not liking Fox/Hound wagon at this point.

Why not?

I've also realized that if mastin and the rancid pirates are town then the scum team has made a deviation from my last several games from attacking me for weird reasons and are instead calling me town. (Though the attack by those two was fucking weird.). IF that's the case then I'm not sure how to distinguish right now between town recognizing me as town and scum calling me town because that's what they're supposed to do. It's fucking with my head to start looking cross eyed at people calling me town.

OK. So since I'm town and mastin is almost certainly town, if you are town, scum aren't attacking you. What are you going to do about it?

I'd rather not have to read you saying stuff like this; do something about it or don't talk about it.

OK, I don't want to kill PV anymore

Why not? What changed your mind about him? Because none of his posts prior to this one looked town at all, so I don't get where the change in the read comes from.

JSU - I have a big negative connection between them and RBD and that is probably about it.

? Does this mean you don't see us as the same alignment?

ns' activity really has been low sitewide recently from what I've seen. I'm going to wait and see what he brings to the game over the weekend I guess.

So now the weekend has come and gone, where you at with this?

'coz notscience completely disappearing is making me get all weird on him atm

I do think her gladiator strat is crap, but I don't know.

I'm actually thinking of doing a strawpoll to decide whether or not we gladiate this game.

Except I think I already know the general consensus and FUCK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS

I hate mastin's attitude towards F/H and the logical fallacy that is painting Ceph's attitude towards her lynchability as independent of gamestate. The townmastin I know is smarter than that and I don't think mastin actually believes that harseshit this game, but false face must hide what false heart doth know .

I think you're somewhat misunderstanding mastin's stance here, and since mastin's stance here is somewhat similar to mine, I don't really get it.

I also loled at the comment about town-mastin being smarter than this, but whatevs

It didn't give me quite the same level of scumvibe, but I think that's because of xenosaga. there are some parallels between ceph's reads in the early game here and his day 1 in xenosaga, but ceph is a consummate scum player. I think it's actually more of a heartfelt townie thing that scum-ceph would avoid so soon after that game.

Thing is, I don't think Cephrir really had a choice about it. A distinct change in the way he approaches his read on mastin would set off more alarm bells than the way he's done it here. So what I'm seeing here is Cephrir thinking he would be scum reading mastin and so there is the scum read. But I'm not looking at this deeply because I could see this coming from scum- or town-Ceph. What bothers me is his reasoning here and his attitude towards mastin and mastin's read on him. I say he's hiding behind a mask of thinking mastin is scummy every game because that's all I'm seeing; no analysis, no attempts to discern mastin's alignment, just a scum read and a lot of noise. And this is why I don't think Cephrir is town here.

The fact he's doing it twice in a row is only because he thinks he would do it as town. Also maybe because he thinks "lol wouldn't do it twice in a row" is a good defense. But whatever.

Key point is you shouldn't get lost in reasoning like this and should instead look at it objectively.

I would like to see town in Cephrir's posting, but I can't. And I don't see how others can.

But I feel like mastin feels, well, 'flat' (sorry to use such a loaded word after that whole thing) as scum or gets defensive or tunnels or something else opaque and distracting and doesn't really absorb the gamestate.

THIS IS KIND OF TRUE AND A GOOD WAY TO DISCERN MASTIN'S ALIGNMENT

IF MORE PEOPLE SAW HOW OBVIOUS THIS WAS, THIS GAME WOULD BE EASY PICKINGS

where the rubber met the road in the last game we played together as town, when it came to who got lynched, my reads were more accurate than yours most of the time.

What is it that I should be seeing? What should tell me that THIS time I should subsume my reads and follow yours?

I don't think you should be trusting reads blindly (though I would like it a lot if you did!) but since you're not really engaging mastin (or me, but hey, I haven't really been involved in this game to be engaged with) on why you think he's wrong and why you think you're right, you're really just doing it wrong.

I think mastin is right. I think I've explained pretty clearly where I disagree with your read and why I think you're wrong. What do you think about that? (LOL I'm still asking questions here as though anyone is still reading this post, wtf is wrong with me?)

Also don't think your reading accuracy in one game means shit. My reading accuracy in 1543 was prettttttttttty fucking shit (though that game was somewhat of an anomaly because my reads in other games lately have been pretty accurate for the most part, but *shrug* shit happens and i'm not above having really, really off games). Does that mean you're going to discount my reads this game?

And zMuffinman is someone who I generally can read well, too

:/ I'd call this bullshit, but when you call me town and scum in every game, I can't realllly argue against it.

Instead of seeing a town-AP, I'm seeing an AP-pretending-to-be-town. The actions he do vaguely look town. The words he says vaguely sound town. But how they're done, how they're said, simply...doesn't.

IAWTP x a million. AP's post have this look-kinda-maybe-townish-on-the-surface feel to them but I think that comes from being a decent player as either alignment more than anything. What I'm not seeing is town (oh God I'm going to hate myself for using this word) trajectories in the way he's approaching reads and talking to people here. For example, he seems to have you as a strong town read (or strongish? I don't know, really) on you but his posts towards you don't come from that mindset and he seems to be criticising you and wavering on you more than someone would if they were as town as he suggests his read on you is. Other reads feel kinda similar as well. I also think his approach to certain things is a little weird (the bork QT thing sticks out as a major example... as does him calling himself obvtown for his entrance)

Basically, their stances this game have been fairly off, as has their reasoning and their interactions, and how people interact with them.

Also agree with this assessment of DespBro. It's the same thing I think atm. Desp is pushing this weird angle of us being scum with AP and doing scum theatre bullshit, but I don't believe he believes that. And if he did, he'd be far more vocal about it, because he knows I could probably get away with it if I were scum. And BRO's reads just haven't made sense to me at all.

In particular, I liked how he went from having mild concerns in Post 383 towards a full-out case and vote in Post 1165

What did you like about this? Because I'd say if it was eating at him since 383, he should have done something about it far earlier than he did. Why wait 800 posts for something that is essentially just rehashing what he thought 800 posts earlier except this time with (apparently) a stronger scum read (which he drops almost immediately in favour of going back to attacking mastin)

Even more than the content, the ostentatious tone with which he cast the vote felt incredibly bold and not at all "safe" the way Mastin is portraying Fox's posting to be

I read it as playful, not bold. It's more a null thing than anything, but I'm interested in specifically why you think this is more likely town than scum.

I didn't feel like voting Muffin's slot who is one of the most difficult lynches on the site to be either safe or opportunistic (and no, being hated doesn't make him a significantly easier lynch).

You're fucking kidding me, right? Not only did I have to wade through pages of bullshit in Xenosaga of people saying the exact same thing about mollie pushing me (she was scum there, no surprise) but really? I am probably the *safest* vote for any scum player specifically BECAUSE of how hard it is to actually lynch me (and yes, I also explained this in Xenosaga). It not only gives them someone to attack over multiple day phases, because it's pretty difficult to lynch me when I'm actually town, but it's also rather easy to play on because paranoia about me isn't exactly uncommon.

Scum-mollie pushed me because (a) I was attacking her and was thus a threat, but more importantly (b) because it gave her something to do so she could look like she was being busy. Why would the same thing happening here be a town tell for someone?

As for the meta examples you provide, fucking lol. You're asserting that it feels the same as his town games, and it doesn't feel the same as his scum games, but you're not talking about why you think this. I personally don't believe he actually believed his reasons for thinking I'm scum here (SEE: HIM BACKTRACKING ON IT AND TRYING TO APPEAL TO AFTER UNVOTING SHORTLY AFTER VOTING ME). Which is what you describe as his scum meta. Go figure.

I don't give two shits if you're gonna call it "natural" sounding or something like that. You're seeing what you want to see rather than what's there, and since you haven't done a good job of explaining why it's natural, I'm going to ignore this until you do.

Yeah, there's often 1, maybe 2 scum in the lurker group, but being able to tell scum-lurk from town-lurk is a skill that exists

(a) How the fuck is this relevant to anything? You weren't saying "it's possible they're scum lurkers or town lurkers", you were directly saying my reads are shit because they're town.

(b) If you can tell the difference between scum lurk and town lurk, then explain why they're town lurking rather than scum lurking?

Also there are times when the vast majority of scum is in the lurkers. Sooooooooooo saying "how often does it happen?" means nothing. It's dependent on who's actually scum, and who's actually scum is dependent on RNG, soooooo what's your fucking point?

So are you going to disagree that saying that an entrance "100% cannot be town" is bad logic when that entrance has been used by the same player as town?

First of all, you're blatantly misrepresenting what I actually said. I not only did not say that his entrance 100% couldn't be a town entrance, but I was arguing that the way he did it and the way he talked about it weren't town - not that he hadn't done it as town in the past.

And you've yet to argue against my actual point here, so I'm just going to assume you're scum trying to look like you have an actual point here.

Since apparently RBD ain't happenin'

Mastin ain't happening either

Sorry mastin, you can't have your scumread on me and vouch for my read on you at the same time. That is really really scummy.

@mastin, this is an example of what I mean about weird interactions given his supposed read on you. If he's town reading you, a post like this shouldn't exist (unless he's not as good at reading you as he claims he is). If he's scum reading you, then why isn't he all over lynching you. And if he's null or unsure on you, then wow? Dunno why he put you in the probably town list in the first place if that's the case.

Plus I don't believe he really thinks this makes sense. I would, for example, have to read mastin as town regardless of my alignment if mastin is town, because as town I would see it and as scum I would have to pretend I see it. So yeah, my read could be trusted unless someone thinks we're scum together, regardless of what my actual alignment is.

Everything she's posted -could- be from town mastin and I'm a little disappointed in the complete lack of justifications, its like mastin coasting on being mastin at that point.

How much of mastin's posts are you actually reading?

He feels orchestrated and his reads feel fabricated; it doesn't feel like he's processing this game in an organic way without knowing people's alignments

Elaborate

'coz I get the exact opposite feeling about mastin's posts and I want to know which of mastin's reads you feel this way about

I love players that have functional policies on me for no discernible reason!

What does this mean? And/or do you think notscience is voting you for policy reasons?

I could say the same about this post. Why does it matter?

It doesn't. I was clearly joking. I don't see how you didn't get I was clearly joking given every other post of mine at the time. I don't understand why you felt the need to comment on this. I don't see how you could have possibly thought it was a serious complaint, given the obvious inherent hypocrisy. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Additionally, RBD, if you gladiate JSU tomorrow I will vote you and I will make you die.

You should see how many fucks I give. Especially since I'm going to kill you N1 so LOL DON'T GIVE ANY FUCKS AT ALL.

That leaves MastinSSK, Rancid, AP, Clyton, GIF, and PeregrineV.

Is this now your PoE list that isn't going to change despite there being

at most

3 scum in that list? That is, of course, assuming I am right about all of AP, GIF, PV being scum.

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone

He's not a particularly *strong* town read for me, but he has been a town read of sorts for a while now. Do you think he's scum or...? What was the point of this?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

OK that's enough content for three days

See you all D4

Peace

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Who are we voting?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

That one head your talking about also didn't try to get town read in NY169.

Yeah, I did, kinda, just in slightly different ways than I normally try to as scum

Hey BRO

Just so we're clear

You think we claimed Hated Miller Gladiator out the gate because... we're scum who decided claiming an extremely negative utility role that was easily provable was a gooooooooood idea because... DERP DERP DERP I'M BRO AND I'M HOPING NOBODY THINKS ABOUT THIS AND THIS MISLYNCH GOES THROUGH WITHOUT ME LOOKING OBVSCUM

last i checked you were completely off the radar for the first fifty pages of the game

so...???

I was "off the radar" because people didn't realise it was a serious claim. I clarified it was a serious claim, so your objection here is pathetically weak.

I was also off the radar because nobody had the balls to commit to a fucking read on me because that's how shit goes now apparently, but it's not like I wasn't in the thick of things

But since you have a scum read on me, how about you talk about the reasons you think I'm scum

Because not only is he trying to pass it off as an "obvtown" entrance (because he knows he's done it as town before, but he also isn't stupid enough to realise it's something he could fake as scum, so it's not a fucking obvtown entrance, and him calling it obvtown is because he's hoping people draw the parallels and call it obvtown because he's done it as town before) but I think it's an entrance he specifically did as scum trying to imitate his town game because I already thought the fucking slot was scum prior the the replacement.

man that plan really wor--oh wait, no it didn't

so do you think ap is incompetent? why do you think scum-ap would tailor his game to you, of all people in this playerlist?

I don't have any opinion on AP as a player. I've played with him twice before (both times town) and he was average both times. I'm not sure what he's capable of as scum, but you're missing the point completely or you're just playing dumb here.

He used an opening he's used before as town, correct? You're following so far? Stop me at the point I've lost you because I know I'm talking to a special person here and I don't want to go too fast. Let's think about why he would do this. It's possible he's town and thought, "OMG, a good way to enter this game is to use an opening I've done as town before, an opening that I could easily fake as scum, and then berate people when they don't think I'm obvtown because of my opening posts! I'll call them really, really obvtown and criticise anyone who disagrees because that is a sensible thing to do!" You seem to think this is what he did. But again, I know you're a... very special person... so I'm not particularly surprised you think this. I think the more likely scenario is that he's scum and thought, "hey I'm going to imitate an opening that most of the player list has seen me do as town before and then criticise anyone who thinks it isn't a town entrance because they know I've done it as town before!" <- not only did he actually do this, but he didn't even have to bring up the past game he did it as town for comparison because it was an unconscious link that... special players like yourself... made. this is exactly the sort of thing i did in gif's touhou game with the way i approached the gaiden lynch D1; i didn't want to point out myself that it was unlike what i've done as scum in the past, i let cabd point out my usual bussing meta and then i let YOU (desp) point out that he was, in fact, wrong. i think AP was doing a similar thing here.

Gonna be honest, as much as I want to believe BRO is right about me, I really think hes going for townpoints with this gladiator push. I think he thinks its expected of him? Or hes just trying to get me on his side? BRO is an objectively good player and pushing gladiators because you got gladiated by scum once is not objectively good play.

what fucking townpoints are available for pushing a gladiator claim like 2 weeks after they claimed it when the slot has had less than zero pressure on it?

i think you're doing it not because you think it will give you town points, but because you think it's expected of you (as town, you would push a lynch on a gladiator claim is what you think. so you are not analysing things in a town way and instead you're blindly pushing this)

If that's the case, his annoyance is misplaced. He could maybe address the people creating noisy back-and-forths as opposed to someone like me who is keeping noise to a minimum. There is plenty of stuff that I haven't responded to and don't intend to because I don't believe it will help me solve the game. Most of my back-and-forths are questions, conversations, or analysis/explanations of reads.

This is a really town post.

-b

No, it isn't.

Look. I am not good at conveying why things mean to me what they do. My townread stands.

So in spite of me pointing out that your reasoning is completely flawed, you're like, "Nope, townread stands!"

K

And you wonder why people don't read you as town

If you can't handle the fact that I tend to come up with strange and seemingly illogical reasons when I'm pushed for them, you should hang me every game.

It's not that your reasons are illogical, it's that they're blatantly wrong and you don't seem to care

I suppose that does actually make them illogical... hmm

How the fuck should I be reading you as town when you don't care that you're wrong?

If you're town, I would like you to iso me again, try to be just a teensy bit objective, and tell me you still think I'm scum, and why would be appreciated but is optional. I happen to think the position that I am scum is not only untenable but becoming increasingly so.

I'm not going to ISO you. I can tell you why I think you're scum off the top of my head. All your pushes this game have come from a place that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Your mastin push is a really good example of this (I am still not sure why you actually think mastin is scum when they're really obviously not and I see you using the excuse that you always think mastin looks scummy to hide behind in the same way you did in Xenosaga) but all of your other pushes come from a place that makes just as little sense. The vote on me? What the fuck was that bullshit? Honestly. Like wow. I know it was the DV head but fucking wow. One of the most hilariously bad votes I've ever seen placed on me. And when I pointed out how fucking illogical it was, you guys just shrugged it off and said, "Nope, still not wrong!" Really. Fucking. Town. Of you guys.

I don't understand how you can even think that I should clearly think Mastin is town, because they've given me basically no reason to at all and plenty to think the opposite, ie pushing for an easy mislynch on me like it's literally a stronger conviction than most people's religions and still can't even pretend to have a reason excpet "this is soooooooooooooo scum" as though having a sufficient number of vowels in a word makes it extra convincing.

This is such a load of bullshit. Firstly, if this is your reason for thinking mastin is scum, then why isn't mastin justified in thinking you're scum. Because you literally have no reason for thinking mastin is scum that isn't virtually identical to why mastin thinks you're scum (but with less substance because mastin has more reasons to think you're scum than just this). Secondly, mastin is obvtown, and I don't expect you to see it (partially because you're scum and partially because you have no fucking clue how to read mastin). But what you should know is that I know how to read mastin and I'm telling you mastin isn't scum here. Instead of finding out why I think mastin isn't scum, you're ignoring it and going, "Nope, mastin scum! I'm right!" Again. Not. A. Town. Thought. Process.

Tell you what. Why don't you sum up all the reasons you think mastin is scum for me, so I have something to assess. Because so far I haven't seen any town thought processes coming from your push here. Convince me I'm wrong.

Muffin. There is a chance you are town. You were in 169. Does this not look exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like what happened to me in that game.

The thing is, in that game you were making logical arguments. Your points had some merit. Your attitude was completely different. In that game you even acknowledged that the people who were scum reading you had a fucking point because you knew your play wasn't town-looking at the beginning of that game and it was only after you started putting in effort that you really came across as town looking. And even then it was different to this game because in that game you were assessing things in a town-looking way. Here? Not seeing it.

The thing is I can't give examples of something that's not there. So I can't show that you're not assessing things in the same way you were in 169. So comparing this to 169 is just dumb.

If you really think it looks more like my tunnel on bulbafenix in 165, I can't help you. Because it doesn't. I actually won that argument because I got to make up nice-sounding reasons.

I actually think this is more similar to your Xenosaga play than your 169 play (I didn't, and won't, read 165 so I don't care about that). In Xenosaga, you made up similar reasons to tunnel mastin, similarly terrible reasons, while ignoring everyone pointing out that you're wrong, and hiding behind the mask of, "I always think mastin looks scummy!"

It was bullshit there, it's bullshit here.

I think you use it because mastin is an easy target to push (barely anybody reads anything mastin writes so you can look like you're having an argument with someone and know that the person you're arguing with won't be listened to)

I do not think you're taking a step back here and looking for the ways in which you could be wrong. I do not think you actually think you're right here. Or at least if you do, you could come up with better reasons for your push than you currently have.

I also think you're scum here for a reason I'd rather not talk about at this point in time but may talk about at a later time if it's convenient for me.

- drake and mastin both scumread him for his entrance posts; bro townreads him

No, I'm not scum reading AP for his entrance (though I do not think it was a town entrance). I'm scum reading him because I thought his predecessor was scum, and I do not think his play so far (up to p54, still catching up) looks town. The opening was one example, the back-and-forth with mastin was another.

If anyone reads a single one of my posts this game, make it this one.

Muffin. There is a chance you are town. You were in 169. Does this not look exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like what happened to me in that game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=400

I am not hard to win arguments against. Because I very often can't back up my actions. My stances sometimes don't make sense, and even when they do, I hardly know why I have the opinions I do.

If you really think it looks more like my tunnel on bulbafenix in 165, I can't help you. Because it doesn't. I actually won that argument because I got to make up nice-sounding reasons.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

I can't make those links work properly. But it really is worth bothering to look at them.

All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing. It's seeming as though the people who normally prevent me from being a free mislynch are not interested. This bothers me, but whatever. Scum appear to have figured this out. Without them I'm little better than 2008 consistent day 1 lynch cephrir. Maybe it's not the people I think it is, but they will be on this wagon. That's not a threat, it's a promise.

I feel like the gang up on me here feels exactly like 169, and I think the people I'm fighting with are going to turn out to be scum again. Please actually think about this and make this the one time you all don't completely ignore someone posthumously if I am indeed lynched today. That is all.

This is town as fuck.

No it fucking isn't. Please don't buy that shit. The first line specifically was an appeal that's similar to ones I've made as scum in the past. The content in the post is not particularly convincing either way. It's nowhere near "town as fuck".

AP, you realize I didn't state a town read on you until after mastin/RBD started pushing you on your entrance, right?

Why didn't you?

All-in-all, Cephrir is the type of player who you have to look at the reasoning, not the wording. And his reasoning here is basically the same thing that I used to catch him in Xenogears. He's doing things that he really shouldn't be doing if he was town. Among them, his push on me. Because in Xenogears, he knew I was town and that I wasn't giving reasoning, yet he brought it up in this game as if he had never encountered it before.

IAWTP. Except that I think Cephrir can be read off of posting style. I think his scum play is similar to mine (especially in that he knows most of the ins and outs of both his scum and town games and can therefore tailor specific aspects of it to meta players) but I think there are tonal differences that distinguish his town and scum games. I'm not extremely confident I'm picking up on the right things, but I am reading him here as scum tonally - it's a different kind of vibe to the one I was getting in the hydra open and 169.

RBD's scummy as

Why do you think this? Because you've still yet to really talk about it

Today, we're lynching one of {Just Sheep Us, The Fox and The Hound, AngryPidgeon}.
RBD is going to gladiate one of the two survivors.

There's no other way the days will go.

You get no choice in who we gladiate.

RBD scumread is because they've been buddying the fuck out of mastin at every juncture, even when she's making pushes that are terribad (like the early tammy push, the CF push, etc).

That's because I have a lot of confidence in my ability to read mastin and I have a _really_ good history of reading him correctly in 100% of the games we've been in so far. I mean, granted, even when I'm scum I have to do the same thing, but thinking I'm scum because of it is about as dumb as dumb can be. If this is BRO and he read _any_ of Xenosaga, then I'm considering this a scum claim. Because he should know I do this with mastin, he's seen my approach to mastin in many games now, this should not come as a surprise to him and he should not think this means anything about my alignment (though I would argue that I don't think I'd play it the same as scum, but *shrug*)

I mean, I literally just did the same thing in the completed Xenosaga game where I read mastin as town off his opening posts and stuck with the read the entire game despite a majority disagreeing with it. And I was town there. So...? What? Am I just scum here because ~magic~?

Fast forward to your entrance, and with mastin/RBD pushing something on you as scummy that's objectively null, ESPECIALLY given that you're probably the trolliest "strong" player on site, and yeah, I'm not gonna let that shit slide.

But it's not null, and I explained why it's not null when you asked me about it. Why are you ignoring that?

Okay I actually have to finish that paper that's due in about an hour now because I was too angry at mastin/muffin to finish it last night.

It's OK. I get upset when people peg me as scum, too. :<

But, actually, I would love to talk about Xenogears, because I've been treading on fucking eggshells trying not to. Why do you think I was trying not to jump down your throat this game, it's because at first I thought you felt the same way you did in that game (i.e. "damn I see absolutely no way this can possibly be town"). I've been trying to play it off like I have substantial meta with you apart from that game but I actually pretty much don't. Anything I've claimed to know about the way you play has basically been that. You may notice that I won the argument there and came reasonably close to getting you lynched. I also scumread you in that game because I literally knew I would be jumping down your throat if I was town. And hey guess what, here I am. I know there are style issues muddying things here and I don't even give a fuck. I'm done trying to convince myself to hold back because you literally could not be scummier. For someone so concerned with how good I am at imitating my town game you sure don't seem to be considering that I was doing exactly that in Xenogears. Yet another thing that bothers me is that you would approach me in exactly the same way you did that game, with random ass scumreads. Of course I'm going to blow up on you. I really fucking hate baseless reads. It's ridiculous that you think that means anything.

All I got from this wall is that you're acknowledging mastin is playing similar to how he played as town, you're acknowledging you have absolutely no idea how to read him, but you don't care, and you aren't putting forth good reasons for thinking he's scum (rather, you're creating noise that distracts - like the above)

Except it isn't? It's the exact argument a scum-me would make to save my ass against players I know I'm caught against. Bring up weaknesses in my play (that are mostly true regardless of my alignment), bring up past games that show said weaknesses, appeal to said past games as comparisons, say "this is that, not this", and basically, appeal to aspects of my play in the current game that I specifically manipulated knowing about my own meta better than any other player.

Mastin sees it. It is, at best, a null post, but really, I think the post is exactly the sort of thing scum-Cephrir would write, so I'm leaning more towards it being a scum post than a null post.

Even if he is scum, how is it in any way more pro-town to rely entirely on the reads of an unconfirmed player than to let the game progress normally?

-b

Horrible post

How the fuck do you think mafia is played?

This is impossible to respond to. You are basically devolving into arguing that I am scum because I don't sound like scum. There is nothing I can do with that.

Firstly, I don't believe mastin was asking you to do anything with it. Secondly, it's not calling you scum because you don't look like scum; it's calling you scum because you're doing something that scum would do (selectively pick things out and pretend there are similarities to your town game and differences between this and your scum game.

This is scum confidence, it is that simple.

Do you literally know nothing about how mastin plays? Because your posting actually looks like scum confidence. Mastin's looks like mastin-posting.

muffin can fake apathy very well as scum (see 169).

Apparently not that well since I got lynched there anyway!

(But let's ignore that part)

But I don't think town muffin/nati would see the game so nearly identically.

I'm not actually sure you even know what our reads are, because Nati and I aren't even reading the game identically, let alone Mastin and I. We have some reads we agree on, and some we disagree on, and if you were following you'd know that. Just because we agree on a few key reads for similar reasons does not mean we're reading the game identically.

Further, once I've established a town read on mastin, I tend to ignore the bad pushes (because I know they are mastin-pushes rather than scum-pushes) but I don't even see the bad pushes you're talking about. What are you specifically referring to here?

Ok I would understand if you guys just had a hydra QT that you use for everything. But why did you start calling it the hydra QT, for this game

You wouldnt do that unless there was more than one QT. Its a subconscious thing. So what is this other QT you posted in for this game

This is p awful

Ceph isn't you.

I'm going to hold tight onto this read.

So is it a meta-based read, then? Or just a, "I'm going to ignore logical counter-points and say I'm right anyway because I'm a wizard!" read?

How's that not using meta working for you, oh just fine actually since this meta is not even correct

Trying to explain why I am not scum is not alignment indicative and never will be

It's not that you "explained why you're not scum" (you didn't), it's the way in which you did it that makes you scum.

And no, explaining why you're not scum isn't alignment indicative and that's not what mastin was saying, sooooooooooooooooooo YEAH

Suddenly saying "the QT.. FOR THIS GAME" means there is more than one QT and you felt the need to subconsciously specify which Nacho/Bork QT you were posting in. The one for this game. The scum QT. The OTHER GAME Qt is probably, you know, the zelda one.

This push is still p awful

Reeks of scum trying to find a "slip" to comment on

The only player in this game actually deserving of being called obvtown is Tammy.

Personally I think F-16 is almost as strongly town, but it's not "obv" or everyone would agree to it.

I don't actually think Tammy looks as obvtown as people make her out to be, but I don't have a scum read on her atm. I think the direction of a lot of her posts is pretty bad, and she's not really involved in a way that looks town, but I see some posts here and there that look kinda townish, if I squint. I'm not particularly interested in pushing her since I expect a majority of the player list is going to want to NK her at some point if she is actually town, so that'll sort itself out eventually anyway

Nati, on the other hand, seems to think she's really blatantly scum. And he's reading her based off tone or something I think? Not sure. WE HAVEN'T TALKED IN A WHILE AND I DON'T THINK HE PLANS TO READ THIS BULLSHIT

As for F-16, same deal. I think he's town but there are a lot of weird things that are putting me off calling him strongly town, and again, Nati has the exact opposite opinion here.

I didn't really like the "I feel lost so much meta I don't get" dealio. Prohawk has played in the last two tales games, and that's been the majority of the meta stuff save some more nominal things.

IAWTP and it's what specifically pinged me about Prohawk's post at that point in time. It felt like he was just trying to make up some bullshit reason for why he wasn't engaged in the game. It's similar to what I did in 169, actually, where I pretended to be overwhelmed and I really wasn't.

This game does not look like town PV btw.

IAWTP as well

Really don't get the PV town reads, especially since nothing he's doing looks to be coming from a town mindset. One thing I did as I followed the Dark Ages game is monitor PV's posting because I really wanted to be able to distinguish between his antitown town play and his scum play and one of the pointers I am using for distinguishing between the two is the sorts of analysis he does. And this game I'm not feeling a town approach to his analyses.

But can you really say this about mastin with a straight face after anything goes?

I can and I will. I said this in AOT. I said this in the Open Hydra game. Mastin makes his alignment reallllllllly fucking obvious to anyone who knows how to tell the difference between his scum and town games. I can't really help it if some people just don't have a clue how to do this, but I can say that mastin makes his alignment very, very obvious (far more than any other player I play with, IMO)

It baffles me that people can

apparently

read you but cannot read mastin. *shrug*

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

I find this reads list really fucking weird

Especially given the stuff you're saying about certain players at this point. Also I'm probably the player you have the least experience with in this player list, but you seem to have a lot of confidence in your read on me

50 shades of Christ what a scumpost.

-Beli

No, Beli, why do you do this?

I don't want to have to start calling you bellend

:<

I agree.
VOTE: MastinSSK

I don't know what it is, but I'm far more likely to join your wagon than the fox and the hound. That's for sure!

Why? What about FoxHound looks townier than Mastin?

You've seen me play as town before, right? You think I wouldn't have five solid townreads by post 450?

-FT

Was that your post or F16's? I assumed it was F16, and I do not think he'd have so many solid town reads so quickly. Did you guys discuss them and, if so, were they 5 reads you mutually agreed were solid, so much so that you were fine with, in your words, using PoE to find 4 scum in the remaining 11 players?

Also, at the time of this post (Wed April 9) I had no completed games with you, so I dunno where you were pulling this from.

I was gonna vote you before I was pinged by the Fox!

Then you really do suck at reading me!

No, I unvoted in case Tammy was actually crying.
I've always been willing to give people as much room as they'd like to talk: that doesn't mean that I still don't think they are scum.

Desp quite literally said in thread that you bought Tammy's AtE and he still thought Tammy was scum but you didn't.

I feel Muffin would be less likely to constantly troll as scum than as town, but that's not really based in any sort of evidence or reality. I still wouldn't be unhappy voting them, still reading though.

OK. Just to make this clear, what you're calling "trolling" isn't _really_ trolling since it's not like I'm being deliberately anti-town in some way, I'm just having a bit of fun with my posts. It's also not an alignment-based thing, as much as people want to insist it is, and it certainly isn't something I couldn't do as scum. Trolling would be more like what I did in the beginning of Xenosaga (especially re: Brian wagon) which

could

potentially be called anti-town (thus trolling) but even that is something I think I could get away with as scum with the right sway.

But I'm not really trolling here. There are some posts that I wrote knowing they weren't adding anything to the game (short posts with no content in them, or the Captain's Log post for example) but a majority of my posts are pretty fucking game-relevant. Why don't you have an opinion on them?

I am seeing Fox and Bro-Desp as town with Mastin/Muffin/AP scum.

Oh, goodie, I cannot wait to read the explanations for this one. Should be fucking hilarious.

Fox's reactions to the pressure on them felt incredibly genuine and most of their posting so far is relatable and makes sense. Their Disney picture presenting the Rancid vote was hilarious and natural.

This actually made me do a double-take. In what way was Cephrir's reaction to the suspicion of them natural? Instead of an actual town reaction, like I dunno, calling the fact that Mastin wasn't presenting solid reasons bullshit, or I dunno, actually giving reasons to think Mastin is scum, they're instead just going with the "create as much noise as possible and hope people don't realise that's what we're doing" routine.

I also do not believe for one second that you've never seen scum make a similar post to that "Disney picture" one. Like. Seriously? How fucking naive are you?

BRO and Desp's reads match mine very closely, I don't have a read on BRO yet but I can see eye to eye with Desp.

Since when do reads aligning make for a good reason to call someone else town? When I'm scum I specifically tailor my reads to align with other players

because

going with the flow is a good way to avoid suspicion.

Holy shit. Again. Do not believe you are this naive.

Why so much defense of FoxHound and DespBro here when what you should be doing is explaining why you think we're scum with Mastin AND AP?

That reads as town b/c it demonstrates a lack of groundedness and defined objectives that scum-AP would have (especially given that scum have day talk).

Uh, do they? Where was this stated?

Don't really give a shit. Nati has basically checked out of the game because of RL and not wanting to read this shit. His last post was 676 (last Friday) and prior to that 441 (last Tuesday). And considering I didn't even intend to play this game, and

I'm the head that nobody is ever going to town read no matter what I do, I've lost interest in even attempting to look town here.

I want this group of players to burn with fucking fire: {AP, despbro, foxhound, PV, GIF}. And I've been wanting this for a while

If you really want to try and lynch me, despbro, I'll 1v1 you tomorrow

Where did this come from?

I'm getting a little fucking tired of seeing every reads list in every game I'm in, regardless of alignment, not include me in any place except null (or possible null-scum for ~reasons~) - i mean, even when i think i'm being really fucking transparent in all of my fucking posts, apparently people have trouble reading it. OK, I get it, I've burned some people before, but it's seriously fucking annoying. If you want to know where it's coming from (even prior to 1543 ending, though I think that was partially where my frustration was coming from) it's because I don't think there's anything I could possibly do that's going to convince anyone I'm town if they simply don't want to be convinced. Which makes me apathetic as fuck. I didn't want to play this game, but Nati asked me to. I didn't want to play it because I'm over games with this player list. Not because I don't enjoy playing with you guys (in general, I have nothing against you); but because it's so fucking tiring having such a fucking high mountain to climb every time I want to get town read when I'm actually town. I'm fine with putting in that sort of effort as scum because I consider it a challenge, but as town? I don't want to have to put in mountains and mountains of effort not knowing whether I'll be successful, not knowing whether it's going to even make a difference or whether it's just going to be fucking ignored because "lol muffin could totally do that as scum". There are some things I legitimately don't think I can do as scum, and while I don't really want to talk about them in detail, I'm hoping people figure it out at some point because I'm getting fucking sick of this shit.

So yeah, when I saw the multiple reads lists in this game that didn't include my name anywhere (literally; go read every single reads list in this game and try to find my name. you can't, except for maybe one or two recently) it sapped my will. It's fucking taxing. I don't like it. I don't consider myself any harder to read than, say, a player like you, but apparently people can form town or scum reads on you easily and have difficulty putting me as anything other than null.

You realize that was probably a muffin-pretending-to-be-nati post, right?

I am both appalled and disgusted that you think I would ever do something like that

Also, all the "alt slips" bar one have been because I don't want to log into a hydra from work (so no, that wasn't me pretending to be Nati) - I was at work at the time, thus no, any RBD post then came from Nati.

IM NOT GOING TO GET LYNCHED WITH THIS ROLE AND NO IM NOT CLAIMING IT.

The two are mutually exclusive?

This could come from either alignment and I dont see why you care so much.

The way it's done makes the difference, though. And I care as much as I do because people are letting them get away with a BS point that at BEST (KEY WORD BEING "AT BEST" MEANING CAN BE AND I THINK IS WORSE!) is null.

Trying to explain why I am not scum is not alignment indicative and never will be

Again, it's the way it was done. This is something a bit difficult to describe, since it kinda ties into the magic-town stuff, about a player who either is or isn't scum. And that's part of it. A town player generally has a good idea of why they're town...but can't (or if they can, won't) point to specific things that make them town, especially not things tied to the difference/similarities between games.

This game does not look like town PV btw.

Nor scum-PV. Because there is no PV to be seen, yet, not really. PV not giving content isn't a scumtell; it's a nulltell. So it'll be easier to get a read on him after there is more content. (And if he doesn't give it, then he can be lynched. But it wouldn't be a lynched-for-being-scum; it'd be a policy-lynch, to stop dragging the game down with lack of contribution, a factor that can and has lost him games. Yet this isn't a D1 thing; this is a much later day, like at least D4, thing.)

But can you really say this about mastin with a straight face after anything goes?

He can, and can even mean most of it together, too. Problem is that he probably wouldn't be, sooooooooooooooooo, yeah.

Town: Tammy, RBD
Probably Town: Mac, MastinSSK, Orcinus, Red gyarados?
I don't know, leaning town?: Foxhound, Stalin, LB
Less than Town: Peregrine, F-16, Kagura
Needs to die regardless of alignment: GIF
The rest: Cupcake, Clyton, Katsuki, Sheep Us

These reads don't jive with your posting. Like...I should be in the 'probably town' pile as I am, but...all your posting places me in the town pile. (For that matter, I think Mac's similar.) Vice-versa for RBD. They deserve the town spot, but all your posting is saying probably-town. Red Gyarados and orc are randomly thrown in there, too.

The bits below that also feel off. The Clyton-in-rest bit in particular.

All-in-all, this reads list feels like it could come from any AP...who has posted differently. From AP as he's posted this game, this reads list feels...

off

, in an intangible way that eludes me.

Mastin wasn't a threat, she was a mislynch I thought I could get. And I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids.

^Ceph's take on me last game.
Posting quickly, be back much later.

And now that I am back, I can elaborate. Basically, this is how Cephrir viewed me last game. Someone who, in spite of scumreading him, was no threat, and in fact, he thought I was mislynchable. He's got the exact same read of me this game. He doesn't think I'm a threat. He doesn't think that my scumread on him is problematic. He thinks he can actually get a lynch on me. And this attitude towards me is, again, a large part of the reason I think he's scum. (I had better wording in my head at the time, but I can't pull past-me's reasoning up.) Basically...he's playing a con game. Again. Like he was in that game. There were a multitude of comments about him being townread, and at least one or two of them were from meta if memory serves me. Because that's what he wanted them to see.

And this game, he's doing the same thing. There are a fair number of people townreading him, a LOT from meta, because that's what he wants them to see. Instead of him actually being town, he's made himself look like town. That's basically the main reason AP's scum, too, because AP's done the same damn thing. Yes. They look good, because they put effort into looking good. No, they aren't actually good. Because that wasn't their goal. They aren't aiming to be town; they're aiming to do a good job of looking town. That's my read of them, of their posting, of their situation.

IAWTP

(And I only quoted this to pad the length of this wall, lolololololol. Like I do agree with almost everything here, but yeah, didn't really need to quote this. But seriously, who the fuck is still reading this at this point? I'm pretty sure I could start ranting about penises or something at this point and nobody would even know. I think I'm going to do that, actually).

I have a penis. I'm now going to sing the penis song. It goes like this: penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis, penis. Not a great song, but whatever, it's catchy. Once it's in your head, it stays there for a while (until it goes flaccid? HA HA I'm hilarious)

I think Mastin is about the only one who's going to catch me talking about this, and only because mastin might browse through this post looking for mentions of "mastin". But if mastin has any sense, this won't be quoted. Let other people find it.

It's conveniently about midway into my wall so I don't think anyone is going to read it. I suppose I could make very sure by drawing an ascii penis. 8====D (Not to scale). Nobody is going to see this ever, anyway. Penis, once more, for good measure

Someone did mention that it was possible I would fake this as scum and maybe it is? But I don't think it's something I would do? I don't know.

If I wasn't coming off a game where scum tried to suggest this same thing, I might be more inclined to believe this

AP is a townread for me.

Fucking blatantly lying. I know you have role information that suggests otherwise. L A FUCKING L

also lol at despbro thinking me "buddying" mastin is because im scum

gonna take that as a scum claim if bro is the one putting forth that argument

Why?
-Muffin

Because BRO's seen my approach to mastin, across multiple games. Even if he wasn't reading Xenosaga, for example, I'm sure you mentioned it to him somewhere (because you were scum reading me for a long time in that game, for much the same reason, but I shrugged it off because I know you haven't seen how I usually approach mastin). BRO on the other hand has no excuse for this. He's seen me, multiple times, read mastin off very few posts (sometimes even a single post) correctly (100% of the time). If BRO is the one trying to push the angle that it's weird for me to "buddy" mastin here, then I'm calling bullshit since it's obviously a fabricated read.

I also, in general, don't understand where their read on me is coming from, but that's another issue altogether. It would help if they explained it, but since they don't want to *shrug* I'm assuming guilty until proven innocent here

Like people start calling you suspicious and we get this "BTW IM ACTUALLY A GOOD ROLE" lobbed out for no reason.

Uh, er, um, no? I think he elaborated on that because someone specifically talked about his role possibly being useless. So uh, yeah. Not seeing where this is coming from.

Also don't really get this if you're town reading mastin (and all signs point to this being the case).

but I don't think I've ever townread muffinman so fucking hard following the series of rage posts on 47.

Well, I'm sure it's going to disappoint you when I tell you that I wasn't actually raging, it was fake rage I was experimenting with because I wanted to see if anyone would town read me for it.

Apparently it worked. So yay me, I guess?

Not that anyone is going to read this, but if they do, sorry? I am actually town but I was never angry at this game (a little frustrated that people never seem to be able to town read me, but not really). Nati said he was sorry about it in the hydra QT and I had to explain to him that I wasn't really angry. lol Nati, lol. If I were angry at you, I'd have said so in the hydra QT, thillybilly.

They're still null because I think their reasons for pushing RBD are poor, but that post was good.

Not you too, Mac,
You've been led astray!
They're not town, they're scum
Don't turn a blind eye to their play!

Just. so. many. words. to. read. through.

~Brian

HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE
HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE

If you mean the playerlist its because there are a shitload of hydras and I use my ISO like a QT thread to keep my thoughts. At some sorry point I'll have to crack through the hydra heads and look for tells, and isoing the mod+me+another player just for playerlist is a pain.

It seems far simpler to keep the names in a notepad / word document. Especially since then you don't have to keep scrolling back to the post to find out the names?

... ... ... Don't really believe you legitimately think this makes sense.

PV is totally disengaged from the game in a way that he usually isn't when he's town. There's no signs of effort. There's no signs of analysis. There's no signs of anything that he does when he's town. The way he's disengaged from the game here reminds me of how he was playing in the recently finished mafiassk large. It's the same lack of analysis. The same lack of effort. I'm pretty sure PV is scum here and I know he looks like scum in every single fucking game but this is so blindingly obvious that I don't know how others cannot see it, let alone think he's town.

I used to be "hard town". What happened?

I am pretty sure you have me confused with someone else? I have not once called you town in this game. I am pretty sure Nati hasn't either. I know I haven't called you town because at no stage of this game have I thought that anything you've posted looked like it came from a town mindset.

Since you are REALLY sticking with this, when you gladiate, if it take 8 to lynch the other guy, does it take only 7 to lynch you? Or, is your hated modifer "always on", as it it ALWAYS takes one less than normal to lynch you?

Um, two things here:

Why would I answer this question? In what possible way could it benefit you or anybody else to know this information if I haven't already deemed it fit to share.

Is knowing the answer to this question going to advance the game in any way, shape or form? Because I can't see this as anything other than role fishing, and I cannot possibly fathom how my answer to this question would do anything to change how you're viewing the game at the moment. So, uh, yeah

Basically, I refuse to answer any questions that are role-related this game; when I deem it necessary, I might share some information, but I will not answer questions about it other than on a need-to-know basis.

Oh and RBD in AP pile

massive amounts of :shifty eyes: here

(Also the only real resistance to this is coming from derps. Like F16, DespBro and FoxHound, and there's a preeeeeeeeeeettty decent chance of scum in those names sooooooooooooo yeah)

Ahh good. Praytell, what does town PV look like?

Not fucking like this, and town-PV probably wouldn't ask a question like this, phrased in this way

There's a severe lack of direction and analysis in your posts, PV. Sup with that?

Ok softball game to go to. Not liking Fox/Hound wagon at this point.

Why not?

I've also realized that if mastin and the rancid pirates are town then the scum team has made a deviation from my last several games from attacking me for weird reasons and are instead calling me town. (Though the attack by those two was fucking weird.). IF that's the case then I'm not sure how to distinguish right now between town recognizing me as town and scum calling me town because that's what they're supposed to do. It's fucking with my head to start looking cross eyed at people calling me town.

OK. So since I'm town and mastin is almost certainly town, if you are town, scum aren't attacking you. What are you going to do about it?

I'd rather not have to read you saying stuff like this; do something about it or don't talk about it.

OK, I don't want to kill PV anymore

Why not? What changed your mind about him? Because none of his posts prior to this one looked town at all, so I don't get where the change in the read comes from.

JSU - I have a big negative connection between them and RBD and that is probably about it.

? Does this mean you don't see us as the same alignment?

ns' activity really has been low sitewide recently from what I've seen. I'm going to wait and see what he brings to the game over the weekend I guess.

So now the weekend has come and gone, where you at with this?

'coz notscience completely disappearing is making me get all weird on him atm

I do think her gladiator strat is crap, but I don't know.

I'm actually thinking of doing a strawpoll to decide whether or not we gladiate this game.

Except I think I already know the general consensus and FUCK THE GENERAL CONSENSUS

I hate mastin's attitude towards F/H and the logical fallacy that is painting Ceph's attitude towards her lynchability as independent of gamestate. The townmastin I know is smarter than that and I don't think mastin actually believes that harseshit this game, but false face must hide what false heart doth know .

I think you're somewhat misunderstanding mastin's stance here, and since mastin's stance here is somewhat similar to mine, I don't really get it.

I also loled at the comment about town-mastin being smarter than this, but whatevs

It didn't give me quite the same level of scumvibe, but I think that's because of xenosaga. there are some parallels between ceph's reads in the early game here and his day 1 in xenosaga, but ceph is a consummate scum player. I think it's actually more of a heartfelt townie thing that scum-ceph would avoid so soon after that game.

Thing is, I don't think Cephrir really had a choice about it. A distinct change in the way he approaches his read on mastin would set off more alarm bells than the way he's done it here. So what I'm seeing here is Cephrir thinking he would be scum reading mastin and so there is the scum read. But I'm not looking at this deeply because I could see this coming from scum- or town-Ceph. What bothers me is his reasoning here and his attitude towards mastin and mastin's read on him. I say he's hiding behind a mask of thinking mastin is scummy every game because that's all I'm seeing; no analysis, no attempts to discern mastin's alignment, just a scum read and a lot of noise. And this is why I don't think Cephrir is town here.

The fact he's doing it twice in a row is only because he thinks he would do it as town. Also maybe because he thinks "lol wouldn't do it twice in a row" is a good defense. But whatever.

Key point is you shouldn't get lost in reasoning like this and should instead look at it objectively.

I would like to see town in Cephrir's posting, but I can't. And I don't see how others can.

But I feel like mastin feels, well, 'flat' (sorry to use such a loaded word after that whole thing) as scum or gets defensive or tunnels or something else opaque and distracting and doesn't really absorb the gamestate.

THIS IS KIND OF TRUE AND A GOOD WAY TO DISCERN MASTIN'S ALIGNMENT

IF MORE PEOPLE SAW HOW OBVIOUS THIS WAS, THIS GAME WOULD BE EASY PICKINGS

where the rubber met the road in the last game we played together as town, when it came to who got lynched, my reads were more accurate than yours most of the time.

What is it that I should be seeing? What should tell me that THIS time I should subsume my reads and follow yours?

I don't think you should be trusting reads blindly (though I would like it a lot if you did!) but since you're not really engaging mastin (or me, but hey, I haven't really been involved in this game to be engaged with) on why you think he's wrong and why you think you're right, you're really just doing it wrong.

I think mastin is right. I think I've explained pretty clearly where I disagree with your read and why I think you're wrong. What do you think about that? (LOL I'm still asking questions here as though anyone is still reading this post, wtf is wrong with me?)

Also don't think your reading accuracy in one game means shit. My reading accuracy in 1543 was prettttttttttty fucking shit (though that game was somewhat of an anomaly because my reads in other games lately have been pretty accurate for the most part, but *shrug* shit happens and i'm not above having really, really off games). Does that mean you're going to discount my reads this game?

And zMuffinman is someone who I generally can read well, too

:/ I'd call this bullshit, but when you call me town and scum in every game, I can't realllly argue against it.

Instead of seeing a town-AP, I'm seeing an AP-pretending-to-be-town. The actions he do vaguely look town. The words he says vaguely sound town. But how they're done, how they're said, simply...doesn't.

IAWTP x a million. AP's post have this look-kinda-maybe-townish-on-the-surface feel to them but I think that comes from being a decent player as either alignment more than anything. What I'm not seeing is town (oh God I'm going to hate myself for using this word) trajectories in the way he's approaching reads and talking to people here. For example, he seems to have you as a strong town read (or strongish? I don't know, really) on you but his posts towards you don't come from that mindset and he seems to be criticising you and wavering on you more than someone would if they were as town as he suggests his read on you is. Other reads feel kinda similar as well. I also think his approach to certain things is a little weird (the bork QT thing sticks out as a major example... as does him calling himself obvtown for his entrance)

Basically, their stances this game have been fairly off, as has their reasoning and their interactions, and how people interact with them.

Also agree with this assessment of DespBro. It's the same thing I think atm. Desp is pushing this weird angle of us being scum with AP and doing scum theatre bullshit, but I don't believe he believes that. And if he did, he'd be far more vocal about it, because he knows I could probably get away with it if I were scum. And BRO's reads just haven't made sense to me at all.

In particular, I liked how he went from having mild concerns in Post 383 towards a full-out case and vote in Post 1165

What did you like about this? Because I'd say if it was eating at him since 383, he should have done something about it far earlier than he did. Why wait 800 posts for something that is essentially just rehashing what he thought 800 posts earlier except this time with (apparently) a stronger scum read (which he drops almost immediately in favour of going back to attacking mastin)

Even more than the content, the ostentatious tone with which he cast the vote felt incredibly bold and not at all "safe" the way Mastin is portraying Fox's posting to be

I read it as playful, not bold. It's more a null thing than anything, but I'm interested in specifically why you think this is more likely town than scum.

I didn't feel like voting Muffin's slot who is one of the most difficult lynches on the site to be either safe or opportunistic (and no, being hated doesn't make him a significantly easier lynch).

You're fucking kidding me, right? Not only did I have to wade through pages of bullshit in Xenosaga of people saying the exact same thing about mollie pushing me (she was scum there, no surprise) but really? I am probably the *safest* vote for any scum player specifically BECAUSE of how hard it is to actually lynch me (and yes, I also explained this in Xenosaga). It not only gives them someone to attack over multiple day phases, because it's pretty difficult to lynch me when I'm actually town, but it's also rather easy to play on because paranoia about me isn't exactly uncommon.

Scum-mollie pushed me because (a) I was attacking her and was thus a threat, but more importantly (b) because it gave her something to do so she could look like she was being busy. Why would the same thing happening here be a town tell for someone?

As for the meta examples you provide, fucking lol. You're asserting that it feels the same as his town games, and it doesn't feel the same as his scum games, but you're not talking about why you think this. I personally don't believe he actually believed his reasons for thinking I'm scum here (SEE: HIM BACKTRACKING ON IT AND TRYING TO APPEAL TO AFTER UNVOTING SHORTLY AFTER VOTING ME). Which is what you describe as his scum meta. Go figure.

I don't give two shits if you're gonna call it "natural" sounding or something like that. You're seeing what you want to see rather than what's there, and since you haven't done a good job of explaining why it's natural, I'm going to ignore this until you do.

Yeah, there's often 1, maybe 2 scum in the lurker group, but being able to tell scum-lurk from town-lurk is a skill that exists

(a) How the fuck is this relevant to anything? You weren't saying "it's possible they're scum lurkers or town lurkers", you were directly saying my reads are shit because they're town.

(b) If you can tell the difference between scum lurk and town lurk, then explain why they're town lurking rather than scum lurking?

Also there are times when the vast majority of scum is in the lurkers. Sooooooooooo saying "how often does it happen?" means nothing. It's dependent on who's actually scum, and who's actually scum is dependent on RNG, soooooo what's your fucking point?

So are you going to disagree that saying that an entrance "100% cannot be town" is bad logic when that entrance has been used by the same player as town?

First of all, you're blatantly misrepresenting what I actually said. I not only did not say that his entrance 100% couldn't be a town entrance, but I was arguing that the way he did it and the way he talked about it weren't town - not that he hadn't done it as town in the past.

And you've yet to argue against my actual point here, so I'm just going to assume you're scum trying to look like you have an actual point here.

Since apparently RBD ain't happenin'

Mastin ain't happening either

Sorry mastin, you can't have your scumread on me and vouch for my read on you at the same time. That is really really scummy.

@mastin, this is an example of what I mean about weird interactions given his supposed read on you. If he's town reading you, a post like this shouldn't exist (unless he's not as good at reading you as he claims he is). If he's scum reading you, then why isn't he all over lynching you. And if he's null or unsure on you, then wow? Dunno why he put you in the probably town list in the first place if that's the case.

Plus I don't believe he really thinks this makes sense. I would, for example, have to read mastin as town regardless of my alignment if mastin is town, because as town I would see it and as scum I would have to pretend I see it. So yeah, my read could be trusted unless someone thinks we're scum together, regardless of what my actual alignment is.

Everything she's posted -could- be from town mastin and I'm a little disappointed in the complete lack of justifications, its like mastin coasting on being mastin at that point.

How much of mastin's posts are you actually reading?

He feels orchestrated and his reads feel fabricated; it doesn't feel like he's processing this game in an organic way without knowing people's alignments

Elaborate

'coz I get the exact opposite feeling about mastin's posts and I want to know which of mastin's reads you feel this way about

I love players that have functional policies on me for no discernible reason!

What does this mean? And/or do you think notscience is voting you for policy reasons?

I could say the same about this post. Why does it matter?

It doesn't. I was clearly joking. I don't see how you didn't get I was clearly joking given every other post of mine at the time. I don't understand why you felt the need to comment on this. I don't see how you could have possibly thought it was a serious complaint, given the obvious inherent hypocrisy. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Additionally, RBD, if you gladiate JSU tomorrow I will vote you and I will make you die.

You should see how many fucks I give. Especially since I'm going to kill you N1 so LOL DON'T GIVE ANY FUCKS AT ALL.

That leaves MastinSSK, Rancid, AP, Clyton, GIF, and PeregrineV.

Is this now your PoE list that isn't going to change despite there being

at most

3 scum in that list? That is, of course, assuming I am right about all of AP, GIF, PV being scum.

Cupcake should not be a strong townread for anyone

He's not a particularly *strong* town read for me, but he has been a town read of sorts for a while now. Do you think he's scum or...? What was the point of this?

Nati, I think this post might be a little long. I'm not sure how many people are going to read it. :/

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I don't remember reading a post of yours in the last 16 pages (and I was 16 pages behind) so if you didn't feature, you probably didn't post (or didn't post anything worth commenting on)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

<REALLY LONG POST THAT I DIDN'T READ, HOLY FUCK MAN, LEARN TO BE CONCISE>

OK. The reasoning for the Mastin read is kinda vague. I don't really understand what specifically you didn't like about the way in which they pushed FoxHound. The dead QT thing I could kinda see if you were to poke me in the eyes, throw a bucket of water at my face, and then ask me to look at it and see if I agreed. 'coz I think I would be in the right frame of mind at that point to say, "YES, I AGREE, NOW GET TEH FUCK AWAY FROM ME". Otherwise, nup. Also MafiaSSK was the head that brought up the scummy thing, iirc, and I'm not sure how likely he would be to do that as either alignment, but then MafiaSSK is one of those players that, like, I could picture pushing me because the teeth in my avatar don't look town. Soooooooo I'm not putting any weight on that.

I havent actually talked to BRO about Xenosaga very much. He was just around to look pretty while I loltunneled Kagami and Aegor.

OK, that's fantastic to hear! I'm not particularly interested in that, though, since it was a single example, and even if he hadn't read Xenosaga, he would have read at least a couple of the other games I've exhibited similar behaviour towards mastin - for example, when he was scum with mastin in AoT and I read mastin as scum off a few posts and had my vote on mastin for the entire three day phases it took to actually lynch him (though that is the inverse of what is happening here, it perfectly illustrates that he knows it's not unusual for me to form a solid read on mastin very early on).

Why was this the only thing from my massive-wall-of-oh-holy-fuck-not-reading-that-shit you chose to respond to?

Tell you right now, Spartacus, that shit's only going to fall one way, so if you want your role used as a determinant for your alignment (as apparently you do, or you wouldn't have claimed in your first post) expect the questions.

OK. Good for you! But guess what? I'm only answering questions I deem necessary to answer. So I'll make you a deal here and now. For every question you ask me about my role, I'll find an interesting youtube video and post it as an answer - disclaimer: my answer may have absolutely nothing to do with your question, but I hope this doesn't matter!

Not really sure what the point of quoting all those posts is, given it's consistent with what I have already said about my role; i.e. that I will only give information that I deem necessary on a need-to-know basis.

But good work avoiding the crux of my questions to you. In what way would knowing the answer to the question you asked help the game, in any way, shape or form?

Any day1 analysis of this game of emo-posting hydras would most likely not be based on actual information

Ah, yes. I must have been imagining all the other players in the game who were posting stuff based on actual information. Fuck me, what a weird dream I was having. I could have sworn there was like 70+ pages of content in this game. Sometimes the trips I go on blow my mind.

The current posting style makes me think Mastin is a third-party of some sort.

I think you might be on to something here.

Since this is day1, and I'm not feeling Mastin-scum, I have no strong desire to lynch her today.

Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Fuck any calling it null, and AP for calling it scum buddying.

What the FUCK. I SAID NO FUCKING THING ABOUT THAT POST.

<snip>

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: MastinSSK

Over it. You are the weakest link.

I can't really say I didn't expect this at some point, since recent posts by AP have been kinda hinting at going in this direction, but I don't really believe this was the straw that broke the camel's back for a town-AP on mastin being scum.

Why did you call mastin a "rock"? Shes really like your #1 townread this game? Why? What do you think about her FoxHound push?

I also have issues with these questions since they've already been answered in previous posts, and asking these questions in an attempt to look like you're doing something when you're really not is the kind of thing I tend to unconsciously do as scum. (inb4 someone points out that AP is not me, and I go, "wow, totally didn't realise that, thanks for the input! I need to go away and re-evaluate my life decisions based on this new information! Fucking shattered my world view there!")

Even if your claim is true, how does confirming it make you town?

It doesn't, necessarily (even though we are obvtown and the role is only a minor aspect of why this is so). What you're referring to here is me coming to the realisation that people thought our claim was trolling rather than a serious claim, and noting that it's odd but people will stop thinking that if we confirm it. So I don't really see how this question follows.

On an unrelated note, I am the new you. Your walls have nothing on mine, bow down before me, pleb.

Can you only 1v1 someone you cop? Or can you target different people?

It is directly tied with our gladiate ability (so no, we can't target different people, and if we don't gladiate, we don't age-cop). That is as much as I'll say about it.

Tammy and F-16 are in the bloc not because they're townreads, but because they're strong players capable of working with others in the townbloc...and are also townreads.

You do realise that neither F-16 or Tammy appear to be town reading you, right? I mean... Yeah... I don't envision myself being able to work with F16 at all this game. At this point, I've marked him off as the town mascot; he's adorable, but not an integral part of the team and not someone I need to work with, so I imagine I'll be more or less ignoring him this game.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

How else do you read him?

He's in my policy-lynch-the-fuck-out-of-this-shit-if-he-doesn't-do-anything-town-looking pile, that I naturally reserve for players like him, Saki, et al - there

are

differences between his scum and town games, and they will become more noticeable as the game goes on (it depends how long you want to leave the PL, really), but I don't see why this is important.

I was specifically asking how anyone could have a

town

read on him. If you used tea leaves or divine inspiration, so be it, but it would be helpful to know, because my tea leaves do nothing more than sink to the bottom of the pot in a pile, and I can intepret this two ways: either the tea leaves clumping together at the bottom is a sign that PV is scum and the clumping tea leaves are him tring to muddy the waters orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it's a sign that tea leaves naturally tend to do that and it means nothing. Help me out here; which is it?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

zMuffinman: Fox/Hound likely isn't happening today. We can lynch it tomorrow, but today we need to be open to any of scumspects, and, well, the wind flows towards AP.

I didn't even place that vote, Nati did, and now you've dug up memories of my long lost partner, I'm too sad to do anything.

:'<

Always in my heart, Nati. Always in my heart.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

VOTE: AP

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I can't really say I didn't expect this at some point, since recent posts by RBD have been kinda hinting at going in this direction.

I don't think I've been hinting at it, unless you think me blatantly call you scum for 20 pages is mere "hinting"

When I talked about you hinting at the Mastin vote, I meant you went from thinking mastin was near-IC level town upon entrance to the game to thinking he was probably town in the reads list you gave to slowly finding minor reasons to suggest you're wavering on the read while not actually wavering on the read, to what appears to be the straw that broke the camel's back - something that mastin wasn't even serious about.

Me, though? I've gone from AP is scum to AP is scum to AP is scum to AP is scum to AP is scum to a vote on you.

I mean, yeah, I suppose I was hinting at it a *little* bit. Touche.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Then wherefore did mastin respond in defence of that stance, instead of MafiaSSK popping in and saying "yo that was me"?

Also, how does it change that calling attention to your Don Corleone is unalloyed FUD?

Well, firstly, I believe Mastin was responding to the part about BoP, not the part about the Don Corleone stuff, and I believe that was nothing more than shameless self-promoting of the MD thread.

Secondly, MafiaSSK could write a case on an Innocent Child being scum and I would not be in the least bit surprised, so I don't know why him bringing up something like that matters in the least.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I mean, just so we're on the same page, you are talking about post #13 here, right?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

(Because I don't really remember any other time it happened, and I don't remember them ever really pushing me after the first page or so of the game)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

That said, though.

You might think that as the lead wagon, claiming to have influence is arrogance and ignorance.

But analyzing the other players, here...

PV's the only one who will join the wagon, and that's L-2.

Theoretically.

Theoretically

.

There are enough. Beli wants to vote. Titan could vote. Orc could randomhammer. So could Brian Skies. Mac's read on me has wavered, too.

Yet there's too strong resistance. zMuffinman. Kagura, both heads. Plus I'm of course no slouch myself. All know me to be town. And that's just those with a concrete opinion on me. Clyton and LB are likely both to come to my aid when called. Tammy won't risk lynching me if I'm town, especially not if she's suspicious of the wagon on me, and with a fair amount of time on the clock. And though Beli wants to, ffery's similar to Tammy in that regard. She won't let it happen. And Mac? Mac's read on me has also been on town, and he is actually listening to zMuff and Kagura and me, meaning he wouldn't.

All of that means that, at L-2, the only players who could/would join are orc and Gyarados, who both have shown the reckless tendencies. But their voting requires specific circumstances, circumstances unlikely to come to pass.

Simply put, it's not happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3k0cE5Vwfk#t=26

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

GiF - at the time he posted his reads list I was p amazed at how closely it matched my own thoughts. And I'd been pretty cagey with my thoughts at that point. I think the points of synchronicity were genuine

I swear I've seen you use this as reasoning for town-reading me when I've been scum a couple times before.

Do you think GIF is incapable of doing that as scum or do you just think that your reads are so out of whack with the general consensus that it would be unusual for GIF-scum to have the same reads?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

This is a way bigger reply than my snarkiness deserved >.>

*shrug* The beast can't rest until it's walled its foes into submission

Or until it goes to its happy place (daily dose of puchimasu)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

You’re effectively saying, “I see town and scum reasons for taking this action, and with no consideration as to which it is, I’m going to decide on one because ~reasons~.”

Purple Cow Grape Sky Shark Fan Book

...

Oh, sorry, I thought this was the part where I ignore what you're actually saying and spout a bunch of nonsense.

I think I quite literally explained it to you in the simplest possible way I could, because I understand people have learning difficulties and I see that you're slow on grasping easy concepts. I am not sure how much simpler I can explain it. If you still don't understand the point I'm making, I'm just not going to bother.

Or I’m town doing a thing that I do regardless of alignment?

You people suck at reading null actions as null.

See, you'd probably have a point about it being a null action if you took away all context of the game and gamestate. Most things can be called null actions if you do that. But generally mafia players use their heads (*gasp*) to discern which actions have meaning and which don't!

I see you pushing the gladiator claim for no reason other than it being a gladiator claim, and I think about why you'd do this as town, and I come up short on explanations. And since you aren't providing explanations, I can only assume it's because you're not thinking and instead just going through the motions you think you'd go through as town.

BECAUSE IT WAS A NULL ENTRANCE FOR REASONS YOU’VE ALREADY GIVEN.

Why did you start reading AP as town?

I’ve given the tl;dr version like 1000000 times, which is that your head is so far up mastin’s ass it hurts.

So your argument is that because I have a strong town read on mastin and our reads align, I'm scum

And you think this is a reasonable argument

Rest of your post is a load of shit, not going to waste time responding to it.

Oh. Except this part.

I’ve requested the mod to warn you for the second time this game because of this post.

Spoiler:

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Why did you start reading AP as town?

Also, not asking why you have him as town now, but why you had him as town initially, because #1019 and #1020 suggest you had him as town as early as that - which means you had him as town off his entrance and the following 10 or so posts.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

AP's obvtown from his entrance.

Also this suggests you were reading him as town from his entrance, so that would mean you were reading him as town off something you're telling me I should be reading as null, even though I explained quite clearly why I thought it was more scummy than null.

Unless his entrance encompasses all his initial posts except his actual entrance, in which case, do explain.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I just find your claim's alignment null even if confirmed and was curious as to what your thoughts about it was.

If you think us claiming hated, miller, gladiator was possibly a scum ploy of sorts, so be it, I guess?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm honestly not even paying attention to the hated/miller part. I just don't see how gladiator and age cop couldn't come from scum, even in tandem with each other.

We're in a Cabd game. I'm told there are no roles that couldn't come from scum. If you're reading someone based on their role, you're doing it wrong.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm honestly not even paying attention to the hated/miller part. I just don't see how gladiator and age cop couldn't come from scum, even in tandem with each other.

We're in a Cabd game. I'm told there are no roles that couldn't come from scum. If you're reading someone based on their role, you're doing it wrong.

Though in saying that, this is a Cabd game, and we claimed hated, miller, gladiator on the first page, so I mean, unless you think I'm playing completely counter to how I usually play as scum (i.e. safe), it should be pretty obvious from context that we're town here.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Then I don't really understand why you keep talking about my role if you think it means nothing in regards to my alignment.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Mastin, I see in this game the strongest and smartest players who've ever played. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire town in-fighting, essentially policy lynching; slaves with horrible reads. Scum has us chasing red herrings and scummy-looking town players, pushing lynches we hate so we can see flips we don't need. We're the middle players of history, Mastin. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's getting scum lynched... our Great Depression is reading F16's posts. We've all been raised on Mafia Discussion to believe that one day we'd all be paragons, and best town performance winners, and the second coming of Glork. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I think I've been very clear about why I think mastin is scum so please don't complain about not knowing why if you're going to claim you know everything off the top of your head without ISOing us.

So summarise these reasons or point me to them. I'm not going to go looking for something I think isn't there.

Regarding your townread on Mastin, you're welcome to share your reasoning for it if you want?

I could explain it, but I don't think it would make sense to you, so I'm not sure what you're expecting here. I tried explaining to Nati how I read mastin, and then I read my explanation to Nati, and decided I would just never explain it publicly. Ever.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

OK. So ctrl+F "mastin" in your ISO shows me the closest you ever came to giving reasons for the mastin read were 1315 and 1344 (the latter of which i'm including even though it could only be called "reasoning" very, very, very loosely).

Am I correct in assuming this is it or is there more you just haven't talked about at all in thread?

Since 1315 appears to be the crux of your reasoning, is this an accurate summary:

- Mastin should have voted AP, but didn't (let's ignore the fact that mastin's vote will never count on a wagon that goes to lynch and assume this means anything)
- Mastin suspects you

Am I missing something here?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Ironically,

You guys had better reason to think I'm scum than to think mastin is scum. So technically you should still be voting me, but you aren't.

That would make the point about AP somewhat hypocritical.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Either 2015 was a scum post or F16 is really bad at mafia

I am not sure which one is more likely

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm here ffery but I haven't had a chance to sit down and mafiamafia since Friday.


-muffin

Ffery can I cash in the trust card from Song Contest to get you are to see Mastin is town.

Both muffin and I are 100% certain on this read, and we correctly read her as scum in both the Open and Attack on Titan. The downright fact is, if we are wrong on this, we are collectively awful.

Muffin and in are already at our wits end with this player list so please please please trust us.

Also f-16 is scum.

F-16
AP
DespBro

At minimum two scum in that list.

Error

-Kaze

I plan on being on after 10p your time ffery. Working right now.

Enough alt slips please, Muffin. You're not even signing half your posts anymore

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Can a meta player link me to another town game where F16 has made this little sense?

Because outside of 169 I've never seen him as town and his reads are so nonsensical that I'm having trouble seeing this coming from a town player

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Hey, F16, since you're around and reading.

Walk me through why you think AP vs mastin is possibly "scum theatre" or "bussing" - or if you're not going to do that, walk me through where the scum reads on them are coming from without mentioning the recent "noise" (because you were scum reading - or at least not town reading - both of them well before that)

While you're at it, talk about your read on me and the role I play in this

I don't want to see you doing anything else in your next posts

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

If MastinSSK flips scum, I think you should at least re-evaluate Rancid on D2 given his interactions with MastinSSK.

Especially interested in this

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I think you're bad (or at least playing an awful game) not because you disagree with me but because I don't see anything sensible in the way you're approaching the game at the moment

I think I specifically mentioned how nonsensical your posts are

Nothing to do with whether or not we agree on reads. I am aware that your poe list (before you removed PV) was similar to mine

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I also think I am rather transparent, especially in this game, but even if I weren't, since you're a meta-heavy player, walk me through why you think my attitude towards Mastin here makes any sense from scum-me.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I mean, I'm fully aware that some people have difficulty telling the difference between my scum and town games, but there are certain markers that differentiate the two, and if you cannot tell the difference, then I'd like to know where you're getting your scum read on me from

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

You go through so much effort to write town cases.

Put half that effort into writing your scum cases please.

It's all fine and dandy that you're putting effort into town cases (which no one is really going to challenge because even if they think you're wrong or looking at the wrong things, there's nothing to really challenge you on) and I am aware you're using PoE in this game, but you've now very clearly stated three scum reads. Three scum reads that, even if I didn't know you were wrong about me, and even if I didn't think you were wrong about Mastin, I would still be scratching my head trying to figure out how you came to those conclusions.

So explain those reads in even half the detail you went into with your town reads, please.

Really don't give two shits about why you think PV is town, it will literally be a waste of everyone's time to read it since it's bound to be bullshit anyway. Expand on your SCUM READS, now.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm also obviously not asking because I'm looking for you to convince me on anything, I'm asking because I think your reads are bullshit and I want to see how you came to the conclusions you've supposedly come to.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

(In particular, AP does have a point. F-16's defense of PV really, really sucks.)

IAWTP

I started having thoughts about policy lynching F16 if we lynch PV and he flips scum

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Oh, and I also want to know if the read on me is entirely dependent on Mastin being scum

Because if it isn't, then it seems like a bullshit read?

Like, if you think I'm scum buddying a partner, then sure, whatever, but if he flips town and you're still going to come after me for the way I've interacted with him, it seems like (a) you should be trying to get me lynched, not mastin, and (b) you're bullshitting your read massively and trying to get a mislynch on mastin before pushing one on me

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

@ Muffin, I am trying to work with you to see if I can make sense of the game with you-town and if you want to do that, I'm all ears. I am not going to make a case on you to "refute" and continue spamming up the thread.

OK. I promise if you write a case, I won't respond or refute it or anything.

Now explain your reads.

Stop fucking dodging this.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

(It should also be really clear that I have zero intention of working with someone who is voting Mastin, but even if I did, I don't have any intention of working with someone whose reads I don't understand, and who won't explain how they came about their reads)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

the only thing that caused a complete wtf was stating that her play today has been designed to draw a scum night kill.

You need to think like Mastin

I understood what was being said there

It makes sense when you realise who Mastin thinks is scum (AP) and that Mastin was going for the I'm-going-to-make-you-dead-no-matter-how-long-it-takes-me-this-game angle

*shrug*

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

(Also I believe the hinting at having a strong role was also part of this)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Hello FoxHound,

Respond to 1921, 1922 and 1923 please

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

It makes sense except there's no what-if-I'm-wrong? calculation involved in the algorithm.

Indeed. I don't think Mastin was (is?) factoring that in. I don't think it means anything, either, except that Mastin was (is?) confident AP is scum

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

3) His role takes away one town vote. Rancid's role requires one less vote to lynch. What do you think of that?

Actually, I'm interested in hearing what you think about this.

Explain this when you get about to explaining your scum reads please (LOL, I KNOW YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO, I JUST LIKE PRETENDING IT WILL EVER HAPPEN)

Because you seem to be impyling I'm scum with mastin, which implies you think Cabd gave the scum team one less vote AND a hated player

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I also want to know if you think Nati's complaints about the game have any merit whatsoever considering the stuff he and Muffin are posting

What do you mean he

and

Muffin

It is quite obvious that only one head is using the RBD account at the moment, and that's been the case for like a week now.

I am the one who is burying the thread. I'm playing YOUR shitty game because you fucknuts wouldn't stop, I even made it quite clear that's what I'd be doing

because

you fucknuts wouldn't stop

Get a taste of your own shitty medicine

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

The first 50 pages of this thread are nothing but noise from you so don't play the "OMG I'm so town not creating noise" card, F16

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

the alt-slipping and pretending to be each other to obfuscate who is thinking what

THREE EASY STEPS TO FIGURING OUT WHO WROTE THE POST:

(1) DID NATI SIGN IT? IF SO, HE DIDN'T WRITE IT
(2) DID MUFFIN SIGN IT? IF SO, HE DIDN'T WRITE IT
(3) DID NOBODY SIGN IT? FIGURE IT THE FUCK OUT FOR YOURSELF BECAUSE OUR POSTING STYLE ISN'T AT ALL SIMILAR

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

That was meant to be a JSU quote, dunno how it pulled up your name

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also both the last posts were me.

-Nati

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

FYI, ffery, Nati wants F16's blood, and I'm not at that point yet but I have zero interest in interacting with him in any way except to go, "Dawwww that's adorable, he thinks he's people"

So whatever hopes you have of your town reads working together are not going to happen in this game

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I plan on being on after 10p your time ffery. Working right now.

Nati says rain check - net issues. He'll be on tomorrow.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

None of that explains why you didn't claim miller at an earlier point.

Presumably you have town reads on all the people you neighbourised, and you didn't claim miller there, either?

Oh, also there was no need for us to rush into cc'ig RBD. If we die and flip, they get hanged so it is not a like a cop guilty where we have to out it before we die.

Except you wouldn't have flipped "miller" (and neither will we) so this doesn't make sense

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Here are some things that don't make sense:

- If we had not clarified that we were serious about claiming miller, you would have left it and, presumably if you had been investigated by a cop, you would have claimed miller after the cop claim and hoped people wouldn't lynch you? Why did whether or not we were serious about the miller claim matter?
- Why didn't you prod us about it earlier if you wanted to find out whether or not we were serious about it? We never gave any indication that we weren't serious about it and you never so much as mentioned it.
- Even if you actually are a town miller, why would you automatically assume we are scum fake-claiming here?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I was also certain enough about Mastin being scum that I was fine with a Mastin lynch

I also do not believe this part, especially if you think I am scum.

The way I've interacted with Mastin in this game should make it obvious to anyone with at least half a brain cell that we're not scum together (and I don't particularly care if you think I am trying to WIFOM here, I'm not)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

And while I'm thinking about it, what were all the reach-outs to me recently where you were apparently considering the possibility I was town?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Let's assume you are town and I'll try to figure the game from there and see if it makes sense.

@ Muffin, I am trying to work with you to see if I can make sense of the game with you-town and if you want to do that, I'm all ears.

These do not look like the words of someone who thinks I am scum

Unless you are going to claim these were a gambit of sorts?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also, to further elaborate on why #2185 is a load of shit, unless Cabd pastes role PMs on flip, we are going to flip Sword Dancer, Town Battleseeker. We will not flip "hated", "miller", "gladiator" or "age cop" - those are all just components of our role.

So no, #2185 does not explain anything, and I think is something you just made up off the top of your head because you weren't thinking straight.

Unless you're going to claim that you'll flip "miller", in which case (apart from being obvious bullshit) you lied about the role name in the post you claimed.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also, I have no intention of full claiming our role regardless of whether we actually get run up, but I will clarify that the gladiator and age-cop part of our role are tired together. Our action is a night action, we're told the age of whoever we gladiate at day start, and depending on their age, there are certain restrictions and / or benefits to the battle. For example, if we battle a child, the duel ends if our opponent reaches L-2 and the day proceeds as normal after that (doesn't happen if we reach L-2 though). I will not be saying what happens if we battle a beast or an adult, so don't ask.

If we are lynched, vig the fuck out of F16. If he isn't dead tomorrow, lynch him purely on policy, please. Do not let him talk his way out of it by floating the idea that there are possibly two town millers. That will be what he tries to do, and even if he is town, he should be lynched anyway, just in case.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Though, you being in a neighbourhood with DespBro explains the "scum theatre" bullshit, because that was definitely Desp's idea, not yours. Though I'd be interested in hearing why you agree with him.

And you having day talk in that neighbourhood also explains the thing I thought might have been a slip from BRO

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

No, it doesn't.

Miller isn't a role that you "counter-claim", it's a role that you outright claim. I've seen a miller hide their claim twice before, but in one situation (Nati), he claimed it to his lover pregame, and I'm not going to talk about the other situation until I see what F16 answers the questions

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

(Also that explanation is flawed for a number of other reasons - including the fact that I don't believe he was confident enough in Mastin flipping scum that he thought it would be a good play, and i don't believe he read his role PM pregame and then forgot he was a miller, but sure, whatever, ignore all logic and reason and assume it makes sense)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I mean, let's play a game here, BRO

Hypothetically,

You opened your PM this game, found out you were a miller

What do you do?

Do you:

(a) forget about it, never discuss it with your hydra partner - including how you were going to claim your role, and then see another miller claim and not push them on it or go, "hmm, that's odd!"

or

(b) not do that

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I am not really sure at what point I realized that RBD were serious about their claim and re-read our role realized we had the same role

Also, this seems like an odd thing to forget.

Let's say he did have to re-read his role to remember he was a miller. Do you not think that would have drastically changed his behaviour towards me in game? And if it did, do you think he'd be "really not sure" about the point this happened?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also, in the event I am lynched today, I just want to make this clear:

When you see me flip town, any votes on Mastin from that point onwards should be considered scum claims. If you do not trust my Mastin read knowing I'm town, you're a fucking idiot or scum. I do not believe Mastin is good enough at scum to completely avoid the ways in which I discern his scum game from his town game (and I know Mastin knows I mean no offense here; I just think this statement is true. Kudos to Mastin if they're actually scum here)

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'll meet you on the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

Let's see how long I can stomach this before my mental health issues make me break down in tears(I was only half joking about playing misery poker with mastin lol).

Yeah, this errant soul returns. Anyone cool on?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm going to sleep. I'm not voting CF, and I really really want Rancid to address the miller claim and why he's a miller if not a replica.

I'll be around tomorrow.

muh flavor

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

oh hi there mastin I bet there are two scum in the Abysm, wanna guess who?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'll meet you on the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

Let's see how long I can stomach this before my mental health issues make me break down in tears(I was only half joking about playing misery poker with mastin lol).

Yeah, this errant soul returns. Anyone cool on?

hi geist

We are the dreams that keep you up at night
We are the noise
Out of control
That won't let you rest when you're sleepless

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Yeah I'm in tortured soul/cryptologist mode tonight.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also muffin said he was /done with the game til day three so there's that.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Cabd and Syryana, obviously

Sadly, Cabd is too small-minded to do such an action. It's very sad.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

ffery have you figured out our miller status, yet? I figure if anyone is can peer the depths to see the truth, it's you.

F-16, why didn't you claim miller at game outset?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

But seriously, um, where am I?

Scum is {DespBRO+F-16) so Nacho's confirmed town and whoever the other person in the abysm as well.

Unlike muffin, I like PV because he's easy to figure out the alignment of, you just have to wait til day four.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Google is your friend, GIF.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

As in do I believe your claim?

Yes.

But I also believe CF's claim. It made a ton of game-shards come together and start making sense.

It was sort of like your claim in Death's Diner, actually, that made perfect town sense out of stuff that I couldn't see the town motivation in before.

orcinus was a scum hider.

Just saying.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

While I can derive a scenario where F-16-town claims miller in the neighborhood, his analysis all goddamn game has made me question whether he's not secretly Thor667. It's just so...off.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

What was mastin's role again? I didn't read pages 60-90 so I missed it I think.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Technically speaking, no, he wasn't.
DRAMONIC, on the other hand...
(That smiley is so flexible.)

Alright, alright, forbiddenlight was a scum miller. That better? Or was it Kairyuu..?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I actually agree with you, but muffin's last will was for me to kill f-16 so I MUST DESTROY

...

I actually want to lynch despbro too so I can save the gladiate for someone else.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Like who names their hydra just sheep us

then lurks til called on it

then spits on me as scum

Fun Fact: every game where desperado was scum and I was in the game, he attacked me day one

META! META! META! MEAT!