Tales of You (Endgame)

[Lord Business]

VOTE: cupcake panda

Hiding behind the setup and theme comments.

[Lord Business]

Is it normal for Titan to manipulate things with emotional blackmail?

I'm not seeing a town attitude towards demanding people prove they are town for the benefit of their mental state. Seems both forced and trying to stay in the upper hand.

[Lord Business]

Quite a reaction.

No I'm not a hydra. I know that's rare in this game, but just me.
But you handwaving my question away with a signature as an excuse for trying to hold others to ransom over townreading you followed by a sudden decision to try and rally a wagon on me doesn't actually address anything, except maybe that you have concerns over my questions.

You surely don't fear me so early in a game not knowing me do you?

[Lord Business]

Also, horrid posts?

A player focusing entirely on the game setup and theme stands out as trying not to interact with the players.

And your hydra currently is demanding a few other people you know prove to you that they are town. The line of dialogue whereby you say how obvious it should be you are town suggests a self awareness you are playing up to a known town meta. And self awareness can be a scum tell.

By contrast I have seen rhymes, emotional blackmail, demands of obvious town play, discussion over the setup and one person pretending to be another person in they hydra. Horrid doesn't come close.

[Lord Business]

A player focusing entirely on the game setup and theme stands out as trying not to interact with the players.

A question I must pose
I've wondered all my days
But can you point to some posts
You feel support this little phrase?

Do you have a post restriction?

OBLIGATORY NO FLAVOR KNOWLEDGE
THIS GAME SEEMS FLAVOR INTENSIVE THOUGH GG NO RE

ALSO WTF ISNT COPPER A STEALTH HYDRA AS IS??!?!

TOO MANY HYDRAS THIS GAME

THOUGH D1 IS EASY

VOTE: JUS

LYNCH THIS SLOT D1
PROBABLY SCUM
AT WORST WE GET RID OF AN ANTITOWN SLOT

SHEEP GIVEN IF READS ARE SOCIO-ACCURATE.

Those are some complicated sample PMs.

Bold the setup and theme talk.
Two posts in the entire game and almost all the text is on it. One caps locked vote and the reason tacked to that is vague and seems designed to be easily written off as ridiculous during RVS.

Or was this not what you were asking?

@ Titan. It was apparent the response from you to me came from different people, but you haven't actually addressed why one of you chose to panic post and declare a need to lynch me and then one of you came in with what appeared to be a an attempt to respond to my issues, albeit in a belittling fashion.

[Lord Business]

What's an AP alt btw?

[Lord Business]

It's not how it came across. It felt like holding them to ransom to prove themselves to you. And let's face it, it's day 1, at this stage no one should be in a position to elevate themselves above others and be able to demand town proof.

But I am getting to understand there is history here that I am not party to.

[Lord Business]

That was to Titan.

[Lord Business]

I saw me first matey rhymed
So I decided to tried
Mastin's prob town
but their buddying me is sound
so scum they may be
We shall see

I don't know about Titan
I'm kinda frightened
That Athena is back
In which case give 'em the rack!

VOTE: Titan

Like this is fucking bullshit. There is no way no how you are comparing me to that game. I couldn't be more different.

Doesn't self awareness of this fact make the defence null?

[Lord Business]

What is the game where a hydra with tammy in it was mafia?

Because there seems to be a trend here of letting a lot of stuff slide because 'that's tammy'. I want to see if this was a mistake made In That game or if people saw different things.

[Lord Business]

Found what I was looking for finally. Too many heads mafia. Posts 698 and 750, are they posts from tammy?

Heavy use of AtE, and a very unsportsmanlike use of emotion. I have to agree that the posts here are not anything like that. I would be disappointed to see that kind of tactics used here, felt very underhand.

[Lord Business]

Well reading it without prior knowledge if your alignment makes you hope you are town, because the level of AtE is awful. It makes it worse to then find out you were mafia.

But on a positive note it serves as a good guide for meta. Either you have improved as a mafia player or you are town this time around.

[Lord Business]

Oh I am Ex-World Ruler over there btw

According to that sites stats you won all 5 of your mafia aligned games.

[Lord Business]

They were all very poor players over there?

[Lord Business]

Has cupcake panda left the game?

[Lord Business]

With an entire game opened up in front of us and some genuine concerns raised all I see is cupcake panda attempting to troll their way out of suspicion.

I can kind of get the heavy reliance on meta done of you employ, although I do feel this "aren't I obvtown by now?" arguments to be easily used as a shield to actually needing to engage.

I even get the early game joking around when you are t being directly challenged on your posts.

But I'm not going to accept someone overselling the so scummy they can't be scum approach. Do my vote on cupcake panda feels all the more concrete the more they fail to do anything in this game of value.

I will have to express some thoughts in detail on the posts signed by F16, but carbonfiber is giving me reason for suspicion. Early interactions with people feel like they are hedging.

@titan, I read you saying you found it odd I was coming to a town read conclusion on you faster than others who know you better. Is that an issue regarding me or them? Because I am not going to wait in a queue while people you want to town read you first get there. I looked at too many heads mafia and felt your posting there if a reflection of your mafia game is far more noticeable and dare I day 'scummy' in the tactics you employ.
Here I have initially felt your hydra trying to force a dominance where people have to prove to you they are town, but I admit this may have been a premature reaction because you aren't the only one doing it. And your challenges on people have not employed any underhand emotional threats or fearmongering.
Even the explanation of why you handwaved me away with a threat to push my wagon while a flawed idea did at least make sense in the context of how it all played out.

And currently I have so few reads that feel actually town I can't afford to be stubborn in holding on to early impressions.

Will endeavour to broaden out a full set of reads soon, but I am starting to fall behind with the reading as it is.

[Lord Business]

I am playing this game without bias or assumptions. And as such I have joined with the intention that I am extended the same courtesy.

Now it has been brought to my attention as to the whys and hows people think they know who I am, and I thank that person for highlighting that to me, but if day 1 is about to descend into a guessing game then I will consider replacing out.

This was entirely to enjoy a game without bias or preconceptions. And I feel my postig has benefited from being free all these factors. And I feel people are also being able to get the measure of me based on the most important aspect of this game... My posts.


So please tell me now if this is going to be a problem and I will walk away and leave you to enjoy this game properly.

[Lord Business]

And Titan, I have had no intention of making this about antagonising you and I hope that has been proven in my posts where I am trying to actually play the game. that would be an insult and a discredit to yulia jue who has set this game up in good faith. I am here to play mafia.

[Lord Business]

I currently am gaining a new found respect for those in this game attempting to cold read me, and assuming they are town it shows that contrary to my current opinion that MS is overly reliant on meta that in fact good old fashioned mafia game play still exists.

Now can we drop talk of who I may or may not be please and get on with the game.

[Lord Business]

The carbonfiber points I promised:

222 – a lot of fence sitting on reads, yet goes into great detail to say very little. I get early game will not warrant strong reads, but why bother to waffle then?

233 – Acknowledges having nothing solid. So why waffle?

256 – U-Turn on titan seems off because even though you were happy to spend a lot of words saying very little, its only now that you read a person more carefully?

267 – Dislike the arrogance of this post.

From here i have begun to believe your posts might actually be from a town mindset. As i stated the early play i wasn’t feeling too good about, but you have begun to press questions and impressing reads on your analysis. Post 313 in particular is a very strong post.

If i don’t take into account mastinSSK’s mastin’s previous mafia posting in too many heads he reads as very suspicious in this game. But in too many heads mastin seemed more interested in buddying people than attacking people, yet here he seems to have put more emphasis on the attack.

[Lord Business]

Posting to avoid a prod, my apologies but I am going to be very limited on my time over the weekend.

Will not be V/LA as hoping to grab some time back for this and some proper input again.

[Lord Business]

Are you townreading me cold f16, or is meta involved there?

[Lord Business]

Because I had made a commitment to explain what I had found off about you but then during that isolated reread I found a turning point in your posts where I wasn't feeling he suspicion of you over.

I'm not going to twist your points or make the argument fit the read I want to see, so I had to call it as I saw it.

Part of joining this game without prejudice was to also attempt to extend the same courtesy to everyone in this I'm reading. I am playing without bias as much as possible.

But I fear I'm losing sight of the game, and I may have to focus on one or two people for his day. Cupcake panda intends to troll their way through, and so unless I see a reason to consider another wagon my vote can stay there indefinitely.

[Lord Business]

That was a response to carbon fiber

[Lord Business]

I am extremely lost in this game, and I blame the overabundance of meta-references that I don't understand/have time to go research. I feel like I am playing a game with a gazillion inside jokes.

Someone talk to me.

Strongly feel like this post comes from scum.

VOTE: just sheep us

Valid point.

I think if I were completely left to my own devices I'd have mastin as more than likely scum.

What is

with

people reading my play as scum, yet concluding town from reputation, others, and whatnot? I don't see it. Like. Normally. I see it. If I'm not obvtown, I know I'm not obvtown and call tell. But...well. I'm obvtown.

Carbon Fiber (2): [/color]

MastinSSK

, Rancid Broderick Drake, Mac

Oh, shit.

So

that's

how it works. (And here I was hoping we could pull a fake-hammer gambit.)

It's only about a third of our claim (eh, more like 2/5ths), but I might as well fullclaim that aspect of our role. I'm not going to randomly fullclaim everything, but part of our role dictates that our vote doesn't count when on the lead wagon until there are nine or less players alive, akin to Saki being hated while there's more than five alive.

So basically, we can vote, but our vote won't count towards the lynch of a player (since lynching requires a player to BE the lead wagon) until 9 players. Thus, why I believe that we have four scum, since that's the cutoff point.

It seems nine players remaining is a pivotal point in the game for aspects of certain peoples roles.

[Lord Business]

Are those you haven't mentioned null then Titan? Or lean scum?

[Lord Business]

Also, I would like to know why a player who has deliberately disengaged from any interaction is a town lean.

Because if it's meta to troll the game and deliberately do nothing of any value, I would suggest that's an easy meta to fake.

[Lord Business]

Also, I would like to know why a player who has deliberately disengaged from any interaction is a town lean.

Because if it's meta to troll the game and deliberately do nothing of any value, I would suggest that's an easy meta to fake.

who in this playerlist can you tell me that you have meta with

How is that an answer to my question?

[Lord Business]

I have played in games with 11 of the other 16 players, and in almost all the hydras cases that's Botha heads.

Only one hydra do I have no experience with either.

And this is relevant because...? You seemed to decide to ignored desire to play this fresh.

[Lord Business]

Almost 100% meta reliance readig through. It literally is a systematic "aren't I obvtown yet?" Until someone finally relents.

So I'm going to let you all resolve day 1 making assumptions on what someone does and doesn't do every single time and then hope day 2 is better.

Or you can just lynch me since only a handful of you have the opportunity to climb under the meta safety blanket when reading me. And a few I have seen readying to steer their scum read towards me (am I low hanging fruit in their eyes? Possibly).

So if you intend to lynch me I would do it sooner rather than later because I'm just zoning out of a lot of these posts now.

[Lord Business]

Almost 100% meta reliance readig through. It literally is a systematic "aren't I obvtown yet?" Until someone finally relents.

So I'm going to let you all resolve day 1 making assumptions on what someone does and doesn't do every single time and then hope day 2 is better.

Or you can just lynch me since only a handful of you have the opportunity to climb under the meta safety blanket when reading me.

And a few I have seen readying to steer their scum read towards me (am I low hanging fruit in their eyes? Possibly).

So if you intend to lynch me I would do it sooner rather than later because I'm just zoning out of a lot of these posts now.

Meta is a large part of how mafiascum works, and nothing you say, do or plead for is going to change that. I'm currently not using metareading you, but my read (early doors it was town) is getting completely drowned out in your posts complaining about meta and doing not much else.

So let's move past meta for a while, and talked about the bolded. Who?

Kagura.

And I won't stop my issues because it is the direct reason I have lost the scum hunting enthusiasm. People getting butthurt that someone else doesn't instantly think they are town just is a tedious read.

And if that the grand dum if mafiascum (which I know it isn't) it's strange how a mafia team would ever hope to win isn't it? The majority if this game has declared their town game and scum game to be so obvious the rest should be able to tell instantly.

If that's the case I'm sure the rest of you have this game sussed, so I'm waiting with baited breath for the game winning answer.

Beyond that I've already said, lynch me if that's your want, soft threats aren't going to do an awful lot to scare me.

[Lord Business]

You certainly know how to make friends don't you angry pigeon.

And whoever it was that called me an AP alt, I do hope you weren't referring to this guy. His posts have been a reflection of the early pressure mastinSSK put him under.

Plain and simple he appears to be panicking.

unvote
Vote angry pigeon

You want to try and select me as the scapegoat, away you go. You can even scream OMGUS now.

[Lord Business]

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

[Lord Business]

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

That one head your talking about also didn't try to get town read in NY169.

But he also didn't do an awful lot of anything. And he had a day chat in the mafia team where he seems to have done the vast majority of his trolling so as not to draw attention to himself in the game itself through it.

At least that's my interpretation of it, do you disagree?

[Lord Business]

I withdraw my earlier complaint about the game, a lot of good posts to read regarding analysis of other players.

[Lord Business]

@ ap: i just don't understand your thought process. you expected people to see you were obvious town, but you townread two players who scumread you for it and calling bro bad for saying you're town (even though this is what you expected?).

you still didn't answer the question btw. what were you expecting a town response to be to your entrance? because your actions since indicate that a town response would be to scumread you for posts you claimed made you obvtown and i mean maybe i'm just crazy but that doesn't make any fucking sense.

@ mastin: hahahahahahahahahahahaha

There might be some merit to that. Because he came at me over what he considered scummy posts, yet the moment I turned my attention to him and voted he completely dropped the subject of me and agreed with a subsequent post of mine.

[Lord Business]

I had RBD as town lean.

There appears to be no direct tactical reasoning to their trolling, they occasionally seen to return to the game point and if I can be a hypocrite for a moment the meta of both of the heads suggest they are quite relaxed in the game and I believe one of them was the mafia player of the year for being strongly townread in several games as scum, whereas here the effort to gain such a read isn't there.

They also happened to agree with me over the demoralising nature of "obvtown-gate" so I currently have a bias in their favour.

That one head your talking about also didn't try to get town read in NY169.

But he also didn't do an awful lot of anything. And he had a day chat in the mafia team where he seems to have done the vast majority of his trolling so as not to draw attention to himself in the game itself through it.

At least that's my interpretation of it, do you disagree?

He didn't really do anything at all sure. I died night one, so I didn't read closely after that for the most part, and the only thing of the scum chat I read was to try to figure out why I was killed night one. But the point is he didn't tryout get town read.

He didn't go out if his way to be town read, but in the same respect he also didn't try to make waves or draw heavy attention to himself. If anything he just sort of dropped off the radar.
So my point stands, their early 'look at me!' Class clown posting gives me a sense they are town, but disengaged town.

[Lord Business]

Prod dodge post. Sorry, but I have no input because I haven't been reading recent events

[Lord Business]

11 Lord Business

Admittedly, my read here is stale, so he's been knocked down a peg or two. But I really liked him at the beginning of the game, and unlike players I've had doubts about, I've never really seen anything making me doubt Lord Business was actually town. Other than his slight drop in overall presence, that is.

So decently strong town, probably around ffery level. (Maybe a bit above, maybe a bit below.) I'll maybe get back to you on this one later.

I do apologise for not keeping up with this game. I have a busy RL period at the moment, and I don't want to be posting stuff I'm making up from barely reading. So I can only be honest and prod dodge until I can give this game the time it needs for me to catch up.

Otherwise I'm going to end up sheeping popular opinion and that hasn't been something I intended to do at all so far.

[Lord Business]

Why has he quit?

[Lord Business]

I can't possibly comment on whether I have seen natirasha active or not, but I suspect he isn't actually dead.

[Lord Business]

We can only pray

This wouldn't happen to be zmuffinman would it?

Cos that post made me laugh a lot.

[Lord Business]

I notice I didn't feature once in that assessment... Unless I'm the penis you reference in your song

But if it helps I have you as a town lean, have done since I justified why a while back which Titan disputed.

I have Titan, RBD, carbonfiber, mastin and mac as town leans

I has cupcakepanda, angry pigeon and kagura as scum leans.

The rest I'm thing to sort out a bit more clearly.

[Lord Business]

Another prod dodge.

Sorry, just not getting going on day 1 at present. I will try harder eventually but if this isn't hood enough I understand if the majority wishes to lynch me.

[Lord Business]

Catching up now. Not sure why RBD has decided to have such an attitude but I'm sure it will become apparently on the read over

[Lord Business]

Votecount 1-41 (Unchanged from 1-39)

With 17 players alive, it will take 9 votes to lynch or nolynch.

Clyton (2): MastinSSK, Rancid Broderick Drake
MastinSSK (1): CupcakePanda
Rancid Broderick Drake (1): PeregrineV
orcinus_theoriginal (7): The Fox and the Hound, Mac, Angry Pidgeon, Kagura, Yggdra Union, Just Sheep Us, Clyton



Not Voting (5): CarbonFiber Red Gyarados, Titan, Breakfast With Stalin, Orcinus_theoriginal

With 17 players alive, deadline is set for 18 days: (expired on 2014-04-18 00:01:39)

Mod note: Deadline is REAAAAAAALY REAAAAALY soon.

Broseidon head of Just Sheep Us is V/LA a few days.

Where has my vote gone?

[Lord Business]

Haha, brilliant.

I don't know you beli, sorry about that. But I do know ffery. And if ffery is town then I would rather not take this hydras place moving forwards.

So vote for me. Unless you strongly believe BWS are scum it's an easy choice and the right choice. I've not done enough today , I've been a passenger the whole time.

And I may not be out of this completely so vote to lynch me.

[Lord Business]

I was town read by both those who know who I am and those who don't know. I feel my involvement here now is more tactical than a strong scumread.

But I haven't felt strongly that you were scum up to now regardless of my lack of focus to what was happening. So I don't see how me looking to see if you are scum will change much.

And given my role, my lynch now is not as final as I suspect it would be for you. So I urge the town members to vote for me. Scum will try and manipulate this vote in the hope of maximising the damage to town. I have value in night phase but given I've let everyone down through most of the latter part of the day I'm not sure I would use it wisely anyway.

But it's not a problem, I will do as you ask and ISO you, will give me something to do at least while we wait.

Anything you want to ask me?

[Lord Business]

I notice you only mention me twice I think the whole game....

And the first mention is in a t/s list over 1800 posts in. So I'm a little lost when you then bring me up again to convince yourself I'm off the table (?)

My reads aren't comprehensive, but I believe I gave some town and scum reads not so long ago.

I assume orcinus by extension of ability is town. But I wonder why I was put against you? I can see why you were chosen as you had an argument, but I will have to see where they scum read me and why, otherwise I was placed as canon fodder to get you lynched but to allow for someone expendable in case the lynch doesn't to the way they hope.

I read you as town simply by not feeling anything scummy from your posts.

So I call the bluff.

[Lord Business]

Do you know who I am then?

Just a yes or no will suffice. But if you do know I would be surprised if your meta read on me would suggest anything but town, but then again I have a label of being unreadable as a general rule, so meh.

[Lord Business]

No you didnt. But that's part of the point. It's easier for you to just assume I'm the lynch now and we can utilise this time for what you want.

Cos if I'm not lynched I'm dead, I just realised my loose comment about bring a pr will make me a potential target.

But as I keep pointing out, I have an ace up the sleeve which means I'm happy to die now. I even suggested it in game.

Why is there a belief RBD is scum? I don't see it.

[Lord Business]

I think I'm drawn to giving the troublemakers who stay on topic and fight aggressively a chance.

AP I just a scum vibe off from his actions.

Cupcake panda represents everything I dislike about how people play mafia on MS. Basically this person has been allowed to do absolutely nothing except troll and avoid interaction or giving an opinion on anything, and is townread because of meta. It's pathetic. So basically those if you townreading that, you have handed someone an easy route through to do fuck all and spit in your faces while you actually try, knowing you will just call them town for it.

Kagura felt opportunistic on a few occasions, but I base that early read on trying to assume me as low hanging fruit just like AP did. Is that nachos hydra? If it is I need to scrutinise their posts s bit more and see if he's doing the same as in NY169... Ie. pretending to be trying.


Actually, I gotta thank orcinus. Being given the freedom of the game and only beliffery to interrupt me is starting to feel good.

Give me a player BWS, we can discuss our views of them.

[Lord Business]

Carbonfiber... Hmm.

I liked a lot of what they did, but f16 isn't known for commiting so early on. Having witnessed his throne apon the fence on a number of occasions I know he likes to stay very in the middle until the game develops. Maybe his bring challenged so early have him need to react.

[Lord Business]

Mac I like. Isn't always here slamming in points and hammering them to death. But when he has come in and posted he gets his hands dirty putting people on the spot.

If he's scum he's certainly not shy about being in the spotlight, but I haven't felt his actions to be svummy in intent .

[Lord Business]

I think mastins hydra is town. I've seen SSK as scum and he wasn't vey involved. Maybe t was a bad game, and I know mastin has been leading this.

But with mastin when he replaced in to too many heads he seemed far more concerned wit buddying and bucking the trend of others opinions. Here he seems to have just attacked, and stubbornly so.

But please feel free to point to why he might be scum.

[Lord Business]

Had I been my other self I might have cared enough to unleash a firey hell down on both of your heads, especially on the scot.

But I am not me, I am him. And as such I checked the old self at the door and am playing this for the benefit of a town win. Which includes self sacrifice knowi it will harm me less than you. Although it does mean we don't had a roleblocker until I'm back in play...

But such is life eh?

[Lord Business]

vote lord business

[Lord Business]

I find orcinus' comment a fucking joke.

Flips a coin to choose someone he seems not active enough and now realises he has two people who are likely town pitted against eachother. Nowhere in the 'cage fight' rules did I notice a no lynch option.

But it doesn't matter. I'm fine with being lynched. The rest is up to the majority.

[Lord Business]

What I want you guys to do is analyse the wagon which is impending. See who votes where in what order.

Cos everyone now will be self aware of how things will look when hey finally do vote and which they they actually vote.

Will get my reads list up in a bit. It's similar to yours, with a few modifications. It's a shame I never thought to itereact with you, seems we could have had some good discussion.

[Lord Business]

Player Roster:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) - weak scum
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV) - null
3 Yggdra Union (giffy and pieguyn) 3 Yukari Yakumo - null
4 orcinus_theoriginal - town
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) - town
6 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha) - town
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK) - town
8 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli) - town
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling) - scum
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16) - weak town
12 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - weak town
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) - weak town
14 Cupcake Panda - scum
15 PeregrineV - weak scum
16 Clyton - weak scum
17 Mac - town

I have a couple there I need to make a call on so will ISO them when I have time.

[Lord Business]

It seems a lock then between our reads that RBD, tItan and carbonfiber are worth considering a town block. Fox you may be a Leto sell me but I wot be putting kagura near that from my viewpoint.

In terms of strong scum options, cupcake panda, AP, and PV seem to be a concensus, with you having a strong view of mastin. As a pool of 4 it's at least something for the rest to work with.

[Lord Business]

I really do hope this is the exact opposite of how orcinus wanted this to go.

You guys might as well ready those votes for the last 12 hours or so, because if BWS wants to quiz me on anything they will have 24 hours or so to do so then.

I have little else to add except maybe weak town on fox and hound. Pieguyn and giffy I still haven't gotten around to yet, sorry about that.

[Lord Business]

Tick tock tick tock...

So much for a no lynch huh orcinus?

[Lord Business]

I really want to know why people are voting you. Either they really believe you are scum (which I will have to check against their scumread claims) or they want to kill someone without a route back... Which is scummy.

[Lord Business]

People finally are listening.

I called AP from early on, people just weren't that interested in listening.