Tales of You (Abyss Neighborhood)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I think I made a ton of mistakes in this game while working with people. I also think I was way too negative about everyone. I'm going to use this night phase to do a massive paradigm shift in the way I work with others to help town win the game.

Mastin is probably writing a whole bunch of positive stuff in the scum QT about how he can use town's arrogance against them. Possibly writing about people in this neighborhood being arrogant, possibly about me. What he doesn't know is that I have so much passion to win this game, I am re-reading through the last several pages to see how I could have played better.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pie, no idea what you are talking about. I was using my hydra account so far but since FT started posting, I decided to post from my main account.

Bork, not sure why you want to wait for me to outline my gamewinning strategy until postgame?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

GAME WINNING STRATEGY

This is like a counter-post to the types of people profiling that Mastin does when he is scum. This is for me to see how I can best work with everyone when I am town. I am using the quote feature so it is clearer as opposed to against the dark green background.

Here are the people that I believe to be town and here's why I fucked up working with them D1 and how I am going to make it better D2.

1) Yggdra Union

- My strongest townread. Completely on the same page as me. Pie in particular is awesome and so is GIF. The scum would be incredibly desperate to nightkill this slot. Like I was seriously feeling down about this game and Pie replacing in was the best, best thing that ever happened to town in any game that I was in. His posts are abosolutely awesome and I've never before felt this great about reading anyone's posts.

2) Just Sheep Us

- Again, we're on the same page. Nothing more needs to be said. You are raring to go for Rancid and Mastin, and I will back you up 100%. BRO, here are a couple of things that I think we should refine. Pushing so hard against Mastin and Rancid is sort of alienating the rest of the town just like in Anything Goes and I think the best way to do it is to try and relate to what others are saying and work out an optimal strategy from there. Saying that RBD scumclaimed isn't convincing anyone. Desperado, you were amazing as well and you make fantastic points about Mastin/RBD. We will win this no matter what. We are not having a repeat of Anything Goes. We are all going to work with the town. This town is great. It is amazing and if we try, we will not let scum win no matter what.

3) Titan

- Tammy is my strongest townread outside of the neighborhood and the one player who can easily see what I am saying even when my theories are a bit unconventional. I was frustrated with her not sheeping me when I was massively confident in a read that she was waffling on. Also, that she kept backing away saying I was trying to manipulate her everytime I asked her to vote my scumreads but didn't say the same for Nacho. The biggest, biggest thing that I missed here was that I never really tried to work with her during the last stage of Day 1. I only kept asking her to vote without seeing where she was coming from which would be cause to get her paranoid. For comparison, I am going to go over the Castle Zar game to see how well Empire managed to work with her genuinely seeing where she was coming from regarding Nobody Special on the last day. Contrast that with me asking her to vote my scumreads without really understanding where she was coming from or engaging her on it. I need to see the game the way she sees it, understand how she is reading people and get into the same mentality I did when syncing beautifully with her in Z-mafia and Pick your Poison. If we can both see the game from the same perspective and sync up, and attack the scum in a relatable way, scum are absolutely doomed. It is not fair for me to get frustrated at her for not seeing things my way when I put so little effort into seeing things her way. But D2 will change it all. I will give my absolute best effort into understanding where she is coming from and understanding her reads. We've worked together amazingly well on more than one occasion before and we will absolutely do it again if I genuinely care about seeing her perspective and not get caught up in the moment and impatiently try to get votes without seeing the other player's perspective. We worked so well in Z-mafia lynching Wisdom on D1 because we were so literally not only on the same page but also on the same line and the had the same level of certainty in the read every step of the way. There is barely anyone on the site I can work with as easily as Tammy.

4) Breakfast

- This is a read I am not massively confident about actually being town primarily because ffery's reads are a bit unbelievable. BUT, I'll assume town because Mastin and Rancid are bigger fish to fry and go with working with her. She wants her townreads to agree on each other - that's not happening with me and Rancid unless I find the last scumbag, so. This is one player who is just - I have no fucking idea how to go about it but I'll try to be as pleasant as possible and see where she is coming from regarding her reads. Beli has basically nailed Mastin and isn't budging. I think it is actually better if we push MastinSSK first because we'd have Beli seeing things the way we are and his scumflip will help ffery recalibrate her read on Rancid. Ffery in general always, always listens to people who were right about reads at the beginning of the game. She doesn't use reasoning to refine her reads but that's all right. When she sees that we were right about one of Mastin or Rancid, she will realize that and massively recalibrate and maybe even sheep us onto the other.

5) Ceph and DV

- I get massive paranoid vibes everytime I see Ceph post but he is at least on the same page as us regarding Rancid. I am not sure how to go about syncing with them on reads but DV is a smart player too and knows that I am town. What I need to do is try to get on the same page as them, ask for their reasoning for why they are scumreading who they are scumreading and sync not just on reads but also on the reasoning. In this case, DV is easier for me to work with than Ceph and his reasoning for Rancid accompanying that Disney picture was really, really fucking amazing and DV is an incredibly damn good player and there is literally no way that Ceph and DV are scum here. As long as I figure out their actual reasoning, ask them to elaborate, and genuinely care and engage with them, they will be a massive, massive help and together we can take the scum down.

6) RedGyarados

- Brian in general has such a massively different viewpoint than I do so I am not sure how to go about working with him. But the one thing that has been obvious to this slot is that I am town and understanding their reasoning for their reads will go a long, long way in getting their help in lynching scum.

7) Cupcake Panda

- We're on the same page regarding Mastin. Nothing much to add.

8) PeregrineV

- We're on the same page as Rancid. I really need to spend a lot of effort keeping him alive so it is more of trying to work with others to show them that he is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

carbon fiber joined september 29
you joined october 24
how is that possible i dont even

Oh, I created the CarbonFiber account a while ago as an alt but never used it. When FT and I decided to hydra, I just decided to use that old account. I had another account on here before this one but I didn't play much.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, I am re-evaluating every player in the game to figure out the scum. Pie help me out.

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:
1 Yggdra Union - Obvtown. Strongest townread. Literally impossible to be scum.
2 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) - Obvtown? Of course.
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - If anyone thinks BRO's post came from scum, they are kidding
4 Cupcake Panda - Trust level town according to BRO. Katsuki never lurks as scum
5 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV) - Also very, very fucking town
6 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) - Has to be town because of Bork
7 PeregrineV - Positionally town because scum pushed him, other reasons in my mega-case

** Up until here, I'll bank the entire game on these reads**

(One scum is probably here)

8 Mac - Rancid seems to be manipulating him but FT has concerns
9 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) - FT had concerns and tbh Brian Skies posts had no scumhunting but probably town
10 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli) - Consistent defense of Rancid/Mastin/AP threw me off
11 orcinus_theoriginal - Not sure what he was doing with regard to putting LB and breakfast so that threw me for a loop
12 Lord Business - Probtown from the way he approached the governer
13 Clyton - Don't like his voting Rancid and coming back to unvote. Probscum

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:
14 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha)
15 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
16 AngryPidgeon

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I can see all of the middle group being town except Clyton. The reason Clyton unvoted Rancid wasn't even because of a post Rancid made. He asked me a question about a post I made, quoted it, and then unvoted which makes zero sense.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

---Also, beyond this point, I am not going to get frustrated or say a single negative thing about anyone---

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Unvote

I'm at work and can't swap accounts but I'm feeling masochistic enough to force the NL and 1v1 tomorrow. So please count this Cabd.

F-16, if you really think both my scumbuddies hard defend me day one like this, Lol. Lolololol. If you did any research on me at all, you'd know I'm the goddamn king of bussing. Moreover, AP and mastin are both good enough players to know when to hold and when to fold. And were waaaay beyond the point of folding. I really don't give a fuck if you think I'm a um, but to build such a shit case is, like, I have actually no words.

But it is not beyond the point of folding. If they can derail your lynch today and get a lurker lynched, and then kill the best townies or the ones with most accurate reads, mislynch the others with the help of townies with wrong reads, you can maneuver yourself into a much stronger position.

On the other hand, if you get lynched, and Pie, BRO, Desp, and I all have our reads validated, it is going to be SO much harder for Mastin to avoid us all tunneling him then because for one, your scumflip would basically confirm people as town, and you would be down a member.

Also, your most recent read on me seems to be that I am town so I am not sure where you are going with the 1v1.

Nothing here states what will happen if RBD flips town, only the possibilities outside of that. So what if he does flip town? Does that mean my reads on you and JSU are validated and I can tunnel you two?

I feel me and Stalin are caught in this vortex of conflicting sides: people who truly believe RBD is scum and wants him dead, and people who are trying to save RBD because he is town. Heck, I think he's town, but I want him dead for the best of the town later on. I want to avoid a no lynch at all costs.

/Unvote

I'll have some faith in the people I trust. Stalin, what will you do? You clearly don't want to lynch RBD cause you think he's town. Who's the alternative then? I don't see PV being scummy; rather, there is a lack of townreads on him.

So, this was Clyton's post where he unvoted. For one, I feel like he is continuously misrepresenting the gamestate. For another, I feel like his buddying up to Stalin as some sort of objective player doesn't take into account that Stalin was rather invested in saving Rancid. So, it is basically a lie to say that Stalin is unbiased. Asking for Stalin's opinion when Stalin is townreading all the scum feels opportunistic.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If I am wrong about AngryPidgeon like BRO says, it is not impossible for Breakfast to be scum.

For one, ffery has no scumreads at all. Her votes on JSU and Orc were opportunistic and didn't make any sense. Their slot overall has ONE scumread (MastinSSK) that they resolutely refuse to vote because Nati said that he is town. Their play doesn't make a lot of sense as town but there is that intangible thing that makes me think all of it is just wrong town. Would scum-ffery give a hug to scum-Nati in thread?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho,

I probably vented way too much in that wall I made addressing you. The thing is that you weren't really reading things in perspective.

Rancid had made posts filled with vitrolic crap - for example, posts like this:

Unvote

I'm at work and can't swap accounts but I'm feeling masochistic enough to force the NL and 1v1 tomorrow. So please count this Cabd.

F-16, if you really think both my scumbuddies hard defend me day one like this, Lol. Lolololol. If you did any research on me at all, you'd know I'm the goddamn king of bussing. Moreover, AP and mastin are both good enough players to know when to hold and when to fold. And were waaaay beyond the point of folding. I really don't give a fuck if you think I'm a um, but to build such a shit case is, like, I have actually no words.

VOTE: PV because counterwagon or something.

F-16 when you lynch us and we flip town will you remember that mastin is town? Or will you sit there with your mouth firmly attached to the scum's dick still, because the amount of willful suspension you are showing is exactly why I had you down as scum for as long as I did.

Like drawing a three-way connection between us AP and Mastin on day one with no flips is just laughingly bad.

Pedit: holy shit at least when I have an ego, I do it in a way that's fun. You're so conceited its not even funny.

For you, Cabd
Because I like you as a mod
I'm sorry about this game
But reading F16's posts... ... ... Dear God

And I respond telling them that they are devolving into personal attacks.

And you respond with this:

RBD has basically devolved into personal attacks at this point.

F-16, stop.
The way that the gamestate has devolved to this point has essentially has created a game state that is not good for anyone, that is not fun for anyone, that is not the way that any of us enjoy playing mafia. I am skimming and my reads are better than you. In fact, I am skimming hard as fuck in about 20 minute bursts, and I can guarantee my reads are better than yours.

Instead of calling out Rancid on personal attacks, you are calling out ME for calling THEM out on personal attacks.

Getting myself lynched first, watching as the town lynches my strongest townread, and secretly hoping the town loses is my thing. Don't go stealing it!

*shrug*

If Nati doesn't want to be lynched, he won't be lynched. I asked him to do something that could probably be considered against the spirit of the game, but since it's not a rule violation (I don't think) it will basically conftown us

In case it wasn't already obvious, I've asked him to paraphrase our entire hydra QT re: this game (200~ish posts so far, almost entirely me) - from the pre-game receiving role reactions to current, in order

After this post, RBD shouldn't be considered as a lynch.
Would you consider anyone else for a lynch after they posted something like this? No. Fuck no. Is your only excuse "oh he's the Don Corelone and he could fake this"? Because that's a horrible excuse and you know it.

Why? It isn't unfakeable. The rest of their posts are massive discredits. Especially the ones where they complain about Tammy and I analyzing the game while not commenting on Mastin and AP. When BRO-Desp started posting, they started insulting them as well.

The pattern here is pretty clear. My posts were great. Tammy-posts were great. BRO-Desp posts were great. Pie-GIF posts were awesome. The common element here is that none of these posts contain "noise."

On the other hand, compare Mastin and AP's posts. They are full of fluff and useless back-and-forths that lead absolutely nowhere. If Rancid really were town that were frustrated, they would be telling Mastin and AP to shut the hell up already.

Who they are attacking personally basically involves who suspects them. If anyone suspects them, they are attacking that player personally and trying to discredit them. It is common throughout the game. Same with when The Fox and the Hound suspected them, they immediately reacted with a vote.

The scum agenda here is really apparent. Everyone that votes or FOSses the scum, the scum all gang up and try to push a wagon/insult players and repeatedly spam the game. No one is seeing through this because it is buried under the mountain of spam.

You can see the patterns emerging if you were actually here for the entire game. Telling me the gamestate isn't healthy is like preaching to a choir. And yet, you don't do the one thing that would MAKE the gamestate healthy which is lynching Rancid to remove all their personal crap. I know Tammy considered just lynching Muffin even if they were town and getting it over with so as to not let it get out of control but held back for Nati so at least it makes some sort of sense and I know for sure it has town motivation.

This actually bothers me about your affiliation even. Because if you think the gamestate isn't healthy, why were you so hellbent on derailing a wagon on someone that is cussing and swearing and insulting people? Your words feel really shallow when you talk about the health of the gamestate when your actions clearly indicated otherwise. Lynching Orc doesn't lead to a healthy gamestate. Rather lynching one of the spammers would let Orc catch up to the game and possibly give his best shot at winning. Bork has been really town but everything you did this game so far has been wtf.

I'm willing to flashlynch them.

It bothers me that BRO sprang to life with AP's arrival. The energy level and not really logical yelling remind me of 167.

This is sort of bad considering the reads list here.

I'm willing to flashlynch them.

It bothers me that BRO sprang to life with AP's arrival. The energy level and not really logical yelling remind me of 167.

I can buy that BRO was excited to see AP in the game and stepped up his game as a result.
I can't buy that townBRO would generate the carnival of lunacy that's happening now.

You are kidding, right? Like... seriously? C'mon Nacho, what is up with all this? I mean, I could buy someone outside of the neighborhood not believing BRO to be town but you've seen his posts in the QT. You've seen his posts here and you are STILL arguing that he could possibly be scum? I don't even know what to tell you. Also, everything I've seen so far has been consistent with your scumgame and the only reason I have a super-strong townread on your slot is because of Bork. Pie, please tell me I am going on a massive paranoia lane and that Kagura is town and I am being stupid.

What the fuck, Nacho?

Do you understand why I'm so frustrated at the moment?
Because if not, take a step back from the game and please reread again.

No.

I re-read the game as is evident by me pulling up the end of D1 quotes.

I don't see why you are frustrated at me. (I addressed my frustrations in that long wall I made yesterday).

You have reason to be frustrated but shouldn't it be directed towards Rancid?

I like AP better for town.

I mean this crap over the last few hours just doesn't make sense to me.

Hate, hate, hate this.

What the fuck, Nacho?

Do you understand why I'm so frustrated at the moment?
Because if not, take a step back from the game and please reread again.

I don't. If I was, I wouldn't have asked. I am really trying to understand why the only people on the same page as me are Pieguyn and BRO and Desp and not you or Tammy who are incredibly easy to be on the same page with. If I made a mistake, I'd rather you just bring it up so I can play better. I am not sure why me asking for votes on a wagon feels like "manipulation" for one.

I havent accused you of being manipulative at all.
Reconcile scum-Muffin with the recent meltdown.

I get that you are saying he is good enough to talk his way out a lynch but he he's basically been counterclaimed, reacted horribly, and then wagoned towards deadline before you showed up to save him from a lynch. He might have been able to talk his way out if Pieguy hadn't replaced in and started launching an attack on both him and Mastin re-inforcing what me, Ceph-DV, and BRO-Desp are doing.

That's another thing that bugs me about you is that you actually, legitimately believe you have better reads after a skimthrough than all of us combined after we were involved in the game to its core. BUT, Bork's obvtown so no idea what the heck is going on.

I expect you to care about my opinion as a player enough to recognize that I'm incredibly frustrated right now and seeing something going horribly horribly wrong with the RBD wagon and am not screaming for it to stop full stop for absolutely no reason. My thoughts aren't wrong, correct?

You're frustrated? Gimme a break. You weren't even IN the game. What frustrated you?

I mean, all these days that the game has been unfolding and people have been trying to get reads, and make progress, all of this time, you were nowhere to be seen and did nothing. All of a sudden, you show up and you are

frustrated

? With... what exactly?

Am I massively reading you wrong? Is Tammy right about you bussing Orc?

I've talked about my big glaring town tell for RBD.
Why are you ignoring it?

I've talked about why RBD is scum based on their entire body of work. It's not something I expect you to pick up on a 20 minute skim when I played this game for eighteen days to figure it out. That's also part of the reason your play on the last day was annoying since I was massively certain about this read, more certain than usual and you are ignoring my certainty and saying I should listen to you when you haven't even been here. Your "towntell" isn't unfakeable and doesn't outweigh the body of work scumread I had. I didn't get a chance to respond to it in the thread though.

Getting myself lynched first, watching as the town lynches my strongest townread, and secretly hoping the town loses is my thing. Don't go stealing it!

*shrug*

If Nati doesn't want to be lynched, he won't be lynched. I asked him to do something that could probably be considered against the spirit of the game, but since it's not a rule violation (I don't think) it will basically conftown us

In case it wasn't already obvious, I've asked him to paraphrase our entire hydra QT re: this game (200~ish posts so far, almost entirely me) - from the pre-game receiving role reactions to current, in order

I once again remind all people wagonning RBD of the post that should be enough to yank them out of their tunnel stupors.

If they do it and it looks genuine, I'd probably be swayed, but otherwise not by this alone.

They can't do it because it's a massive rules violation.
The way that this situation has come about is incredibly town and I really want you to think about if this comes from scum or not. Do you really think tha Muffin and Nati's frustration is fake, bullshitted, come up out of the blue? Because we have all seen Muffin fight lynches before. Has he ever fought a lynch like this at all?

You can also talk about this, F-16.

What exactly do you want to talk about? You're just not seeing how desperate they are to avoid a lynch. They'll do anything and everything they can to avoid it. This isn't scummy if they admitted that they don't want to be mislynched. But they are saying "lynch me" to garner sympathy while avoiding the lynch. Muffin posts personal QTs as scum. You saw this in NY169. Do you actually, genuinely believe that Muffin-Nati don't have a "town" looking hydra QT where they post their "town" thoughts and reads in addition to Cabd's daytalk? They can simply paraphrase their faked thoughts.

F-16, you're still ignoring me.

I wasn't deliberately ignoring you. The game moved at such a fast pace that I could barely type posts amongst the multitude of pedits and and was massively skimming the thread. I only now started reading every post in detail. There are so many that I missed. But this is a rather absurd thing to say, to come into the thread after I spent that much effort building a wagon on Rancid and trying desperately to convince everyone to back off. You could have worked with to get Mastin lynched if you were opposed to a Rancid wagon for instance but you didn't. I don't understand why you were so desperate to derail both wagons rather than not post at all and come back D2, analyze the flips and so on. Honestly, this reminds me of that game where you were partnered with McStab as well as NY169.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

mastin's reaction to BRO was

100% a scum reaction

. town actually gives a shit about the other players in the game. he does not.

because he is deliberately trying to induce apathy and feelings of despair in town.

he's scum who doesn't know how to react to it going to o far, so he jsut ignores it and hopes he can just skate by.

you can all listen to me and lynch obvscum today, or you can just watch it all fly by. your call

I'll just keep repeating this till you all listen to me kthx

-Y

If you vote orcinus today, I will listen to you tomorrow.

Why don't I get this same offer?

I'm on the end of my rope right now.
I hoped that reaching out to you and getting you to see my point would be the easiest aspect of turning this game around. It wasn't, and that's a large part of the reason why I'm so frustrated right now.

I've probably responded to this in effect in my two walls but you really didn't reach out at all. You jumped in and started working with the scum to derail a wagon that several of us spent a massive amount of effort to build to deadline lynch a lurkertown.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I've been thinking about the game and considering ffery suddenly had an aha moment when we revealed the neighborhood about BRO-Desp's stances and reads, jumping on the JSU flashwagon towards the end may mean that Breakfast could be scum because it doesn't make all that much sense. I'll bring this in thread D2. But to be fair, Tammy did as well so it is possible for a townie to think that JSU could be scum so maybe Breakfast did too. That's the baseline I'm working with.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

There are some key reasons why this RBD lynch is a WHOLE LOAD OF FUCKING SHIT.

I still haven't read since CF claimed but still some questions I feel people don't have answers too;

Why does scum Muffin, who is the fucking reigning DON CORLEONE on site and has fooled the majority of players in this game, feel the need to claim miller right out the gate?

Why does scum Muffin fake apathy and then go on to fucking admit it was fake and he just wanted to see if anyone would townread him?

WHY IS TOWN MUFFINATI BEING LYNCHED?

Anyone who is suspicious of Mac: This isn't scum defending a buddy, this is wrong town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The emotions are genuine there. Even if Rancid is somehow town, Mac is still town. I'm going to run this by FT but I just don't agree with him. Mac is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hmm, I am still thinking about it. I honestly don't know. We can talk about it and quickvote in the morning if we are all agreed on it. BUT, I want to be ABSOLUTELY certain. If I even have an inkling that ffery and Beli are town, I am not even going to bother voting at all. (I know that's hypocritical considering I was telling people to vote RBD based on less), but this is special scenario.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

actually, now that I think about this more
ffery not working with me re: mastin and instead positioning against me is probably a scum claim. but I'm having a lot of hesitation making that call right now for some reason

I don't get this either. There are four of us (you, me, BRO, and Desp) all saying that MastinSSK and RBD are scum and she is resolutely refusing to vote either so it really gives me hives (to use ffery's words). If she is scum and we nail her down, it would be a massive blow to the scumteam but if she is town, it would be a blow to town as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, BroDesp already voted LB so we are outvoted anyways. It is irrelevant now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I was hoping Nacho posted here. I am legitimately starting to worry about his affiliation. Still want him to explain why he is complaining at people that pushed the RBD wagon instead of RBD themselves.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The more I think about it, the more ridiculously weird this is looking. Nacho has logged onto the site this weekend and today but hasn't checked into the neighborhood. His early analysis in the QT neighborhood also sent up all sorts of red flags especially some of the reasoning behind his reads, his jump into the thread to say that Mastin is town, and then complete disappearance. The later appearance at deadline to derail the Rancid lynch. If he is so uninvested in the game, how did he show up at deadline at precisely the right moments to shake things up and then got the hell out of there for good until now. I don't understand it and I am not sure I want to believe Nacho as town would do that. I also think he'd approach it in a completely different way if town. For one, as I mentioned before, it feels completely nuts to have seen what happened in the game and say that BRO was creating a "carnival of lunacy" as opposed to something like "Muffin, enough with the personal attacks, we're here to play a game, don't make it unfun for everyone involved." It feels like he is completely out of step with what's happening in the game and trying to push an agenda as opposed to genuinely being Nacho.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It's like, ffery's just sitting peripheral to the game, only taking slight pokes in that are surface-level "pro-town" things to say, and not the actual dirty work needed to progress a town win con.

AP's vote-hopping is making me nervous about him, especially his willingness to jump on an obvious counter wagon to scum.

But her interactions with Rancid make absolutely no sense as scum-scum, agree? I mean, Rancid were practically begging Breakfast to save them.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm here -- I am kinda blocking this game out because I'm really fucking irritated to the point where it was causing me physical distress on Monday

...and there are SIXTEEN PAGES since I posted last and I'm sure I'm not going to want to read it.

I'll try to catch up over lunch but if it's more mastin vs AP crap I'm seriously going to skip it all. It is adding fucking NOTHING.

@F-16 - I've been trying to get ahold of Nacho all week - he's just literally AWOL during the week. I have him on Skype and gchat and he's usually logged onto there via mobile devices but doesn't respond. I've been posting in the hydra QT too but nothing from him there either.

Why are you sure PV is town? I feel like people are really tiptoeing around voting him.

This post looks super-town though and makes a lot of sense.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also Bork, get the heck off of the scum designated mislynch.

Can you please stop being hyperbolic?

I think mastin is town,

I'm probably willing to compromise on RBD but it's more to get rid of their anti-town sucking the game into a black hole of vitriol than anything.

I really don't think muffin is willing to pull this shit as scum (capable, maybe, but this is a level of frustration that I could never possibly show as anything but town)

Make your case on town PV to me because that's looking to me like a better option than either RBD or (especially) mastin

I'm sorry if that puts me into your list of shitfuck players or whatever but I am not seeing what you're seeing.

I agree with this and I think it is objectively true. That's partly why Nacho coming in to take the opposite viewpoint bugged me but I can see that coming from town if I could get into his thought process.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, re-reading again, everything that Bork is posting makes sense so I have to accept that Nacho actually posted what he did.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, read Muffin's wall in Post 1578 and tell me what you see. I think there are some town posts there but also, positionally, most of his posts devolve into IAWTP whenever someone he is townreading makes a post like Mastin. The positional nature of his reads is evident from that as is his lack of objectivity. He also agrees with posts that already support the viewpoint that he is trying to push.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Sorry for spamming but this is important. Just finished reading through Rancid's ISO since the mega post and it is a chore to get past.

I can see why people are thinking Rancid are town. Their frustration looks genuine on a first glance. The only thing I don't like is that it is pretty much directed at whoever tunnels them. The one thing all of Tammy, Fox-Hound, Bro-Desp, and me have in common is that one point or another, we pushed Rancid as scum. Their scumreads (like PV) are basically easy targets.

Anyways, next phase I intend to let the thread breathe and focus on reconnecting with the town. If they are town (which is unlikely), then not pushing them will help them be town. If they are scum, town needs to come to that conclusion on their own.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Paragraph one: The effort you've poured into getting a lynch and the passion you have while pushing said lynch means absolutely nothing as far as the alignment of the people you are pushing goes. Do you expect me to set aside my opinion and my pushes because you are more invested in the game and you have out more effort pushing than I have? Do you expect me to be quiet and accept whatever direction others push because your production is more impressive than mine? That is a naive mindset: effort =\= right.

Again, you have the same language that I'm derailing all of your hard work and I'm expressing my viewpoints and that makes me an asshole (I don't understand how you think you can pop in and derail something I worked so hard to accomplish)... Again, if you want me to be invested like you act like you want me to be, I will be aggressive. And if I disagree with the reads that you have, I will express my disagreement loudly and immediately. Saying that I am impossible o work with because "I won't vote any of the scum" is not exactly a fair statement: working with a player is taking their reads into account and adjusting accordingly, not forcing them to vote your way, and your single-minded pursuit of your suspects is cool and all but don't drag me in and ask me to work with you if you don't want to work through anything.

I don't know anything.
I didn't read the thread.
Except... I did read the thread. And I've known Mastin for three years longer than you have, and I know him far more intimately than you do. Mastin was frustrated, Mastin was angry. I don't think Mastin was trying to make BRO have an emotional breakdown and I think the accusation is a little extreme. I do get that scum would be in a hard place if the narrative that you're building is true.

Yes, I'm telling you you're not working with me when you're pissed at me for "not pushing your scumreads". I have never asked anyone to push my scumreads for me when asking to work with them, and you asking that from me and getting angry when I refuse illustrates my point completely.

I know effort =/= right but you're the one who showed up on the day of deadline critisizing me for saying that RBD have devolved into ad-homs and telling me that I am not working with you which wouldn't have happened if you had made any effort to work with me. Why didn't you post in the neighborhood and talk to me about my push on RBD?

I don't expect you to put aside your reads, I expect you at the very least to not blame me for the crapshoot of a gamestate that Muffin created and if you are so frustrated with it, to tell him to stop with the insults and the ad-homs and not me for calling them out.

I'm not frustrated at you for not pushing at my scumreads, I am frustrated at you for derailing it. Meaning if you had done nothing, I would not have been frustrated. I am also frustrated that you blame me for the state of the game instead of the people that are actually responsible for it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho,

You told me to vote Orc and started getting frustrated because I am not working with you when I outlined why I felt Orc was town earlier. I also wrote a massive explanation for why PV was town. You shouldn't expect me to put aside my reads for yours while derailing wagons that I build on my scumreads. You didn't work with me. You worked

against

me. You also didn't answer any of my questions from my other wall which was more game relevant stuff anyways.

You could also, I dunno, be more involved in the game and spend time working with others when everything isn't so rushed anyways.

^cuz if your actions at deadline are any indication your reads are pretty shitty anyway, so

At least I'm willing to reanalyze them. You aren't willing to reanalyze. Bro won't reanalyze. f-16 won't reanalyze. Etc, etc.

But haven't re-analyzed anything nor did you show a willingness to.

I know Muffin is a lost cause. Muffin is very self-absorbed at times, he stirs up shit and he doesn't really care about stirring up shit. Other people in your hydra normally can be dragged out of vitriol lane before everything gets too horrible.

It would have nice if you spent actual effort talking to people like you usually do instead of passing blame. You claim that Muffin is a lost cause and he is the one whose actions you passionately defend.

BRO doesn't have an anxiety attack? We have a yesterday that's actually beneficial to determining the alignments of anyone?

if you believe that yesterday wasn't conducive to determining anyone's alignment why were you trying to redirect the discussion on to your reads just now?

that wasn't a fair statement, you're correct
yesterday wasn't a day where reads were formed in a fun way. reads were formed by reading emotional breakdowns and reading people who are literally far past their limit, which isn't a fun way to form reads (which is what i mean by an unhealthy gamestate).

Okay, and telling Muffin to stop insulting half the playerlist might have led to a more calm day. Why didn't you consider it?

I would actually like to be lynched (just because I literally do not want town to win this, which is why I'm stepping back and giving full control of play to Nati because I cannot play to win con)

And then I would like for mastin to be lynched after us just so town is in a really shit position

I have told Nati what he should do if he still cares about winning - it's a cheap tactic (and i don't think it's a rule violation but i told him to check with cabd before he does it), but if you still think we're scum after it happens, you literally have no idea how to scum hunt

If you have any sense you'll wait to see whether he decides to do what I told him to do. I don't care either way, though.

This is frustration I'm referring to and townreading: it is muffin's frustration, not Nati's.

This is fake because it doesn't make any sense and here's why:

1) With an active hydra partner, it would have been extraordinarily easy to replace out of the game and not bother with it if he wanted to. While it is bad, it is better than playing against wincon.

2) He came right back into the thread, unvoted, and continued spewing vitriol at anyone that suspected him.

3) He spent an extraordinary amount of effort into avoiding his lynch which if he really gave up, he wouldn't have.

nati showed up and blamed f-16 and titan for causing her eyes to bleed and hailing ap and mastin for their brevity.

first, i don't think nati preferring ap and mastin over f-16 is anymore significant than f-16 liking you over ap and mastin

Except Tammy and I were analyzing the game and moving it forward. Mastin and AP were shittalking. A rational human being isn't ever going to prefer Mastin's/AP's back and forth over ours. Nati is a rational human being.

Pie, IAWTP means I agree with this post.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't think posting anything over and over again will be very helpful. It didn't help you guys in Anything Goes and it won't help now. What will help is working with the rest of the town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

RBD is scum, right?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Could it be a janitor vig?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The orange color means they are scum, right?

I'd be annoyed if they found a way to get back into the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

See Mac's role though. He is a bodyguard. He probably died defending you guys or Titan. I think Titan because you and Mac had opposite positions on Mastin and Rancid. So, Mac died defending someone and
1) Either a janitor vig shot RBD (no idea who it could be though)
2) Or he janitors self upon a flip and can be revived. Man, that would suck. If and when we lynch Mastin, his scumflip should be enough to not let RBD live onto endgame.

The cool thing about this game is we have some solid reads. If people claim contradictory things, we don't need claims to sort out who is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Just FYI, I'd rather not paraphrase the argument in thread for Clyton. It feels scummy that he is asking for it and it feels like he is trying to divide the town. If Kagura is town, all of this was kept under an all-town shield so I'd rather not.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

LMFAO at MastinSSK continuing to push the scum-designated mislynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, since Bork agreed to vote Mastin apparently and Nacho owes Pie his vote, pretty sure this neighborhood will provide 4/8 votes needed to lynch him. From there, we just need Cupcake, Breakfast, FoxHound, and maybe Titan to vote as well. Probably Pere might vote.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Because if Mastin dies and flips scum, Rancid will hang that much more easily in case they awaken from the dead.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Need to head out but it feels like I am not the only one who got a message from Cabd last night.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Another scumtell for Mastin: Overcompensating for not having fluidity in reads when scum by making his reads TOO fluid. This is one thing I'm pretty sure Mastin will agree I nailed him on after the game is over even if he disagrees with my other reasons for scumreading him arguing that they might be non-alignment indicative.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I KNOW RIGHT. It is so obvious Mastin and AP are scum together.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Actually, you know I wonder what Mastin will do if I do accept the reachout and tell him to lynch AP.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

NACHO

, I wish you didn't disappear again before we had time to sort everything out. Please check in here next time you are online.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why? I actually thought his interactions with Mastin looked like buddy-buddy interactions. Even after all the criticisms, he calls Mastin town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

He's constantly looking for any excuse to not vote AP though.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Another reason why AP is scum:
He pushes for new reasons to believe I am scum. His reads are also too static and nonsensical. Me and Bork scum.
First he accused me of buddying and when it was apparent that that wasn't an argument he could push, he accuses me of something else and then the whole miller investigation crap.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I think Mastin and AP are clearly bussing. I don't see any associative issues. Mastin/AP/RBD with the last one as {Clyton/a few other people} would work. Wrong as Stalin is, there are a few things which made me doubt Stalin-scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It feels fake though.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Who are the scum? And don't pick a couple of low hanging fruit like PV and say they are the scum because that's not how the game makes any sense.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You think Mastin is scum? What changed your mind on him?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mastin/ap/PV/orc/Clayton

Okay, and I think Mastin/AP/Clyton/Rancid is the most likely scumteam. (Clyton is a really, really, really weak read though and not someone I'd prefer to lynch today).

The only things we disagree on is that you think it is one of Orc/PV as opposed to Rancid.

No idea why we were butting heads so much D1. We could have just lynched Mastin and AP and went from there.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, let's go bit by bit. I am town and assuming you are town,

There is not a snowballs chance in hell that Yggdra is scum (they are bleeding obvtown everywhere and are my strongest townread), second strongest is Titan. Third is BRO-Desp. None of these people will flip scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

DEAD

1 LordBusiness - Roleblocker with possibility of re-entry into the game
2 Mac - Paranoid Bodyguard that also rolestops target

3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha) - Janitored, scumread for me

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:

*none of these people will flip scum*

1 Yggdra Union - Obvtown. Strongest townread. Literally impossible to be scum.
2 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) - Obvtown? Tammy MAY be this good but it'll be the performance of a lifetime
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - Both heads are pretty freaking obvtown
4 Cupcake Panda - Trust level town according to BRO. Katsuki never lurks as scum
5 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV) - All of their positions and reads make a ton of sense, plus this is DV's town meta
6 PeregrineV - I detail the reasons in my mega-case, plus if Mastin/AP are scum, he is town because they pushed him

<gap>

* one scum is probably here*

7 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) - Will assume town for now
8 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) - FT had concerns and tbh Brian Skies posts had no scumhunting but probably town
9 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli) - Consistent defense of Rancid/Mastin/AP threw me off
10 orcinus_theoriginal - Not sure what he was doing with regard to putting LB and breakfast so that threw me for a loop
11 Clyton - Don't like his voting Rancid and coming back to unvote. Probscum

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:
12 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
13 AngryPidgeon

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Gyrados was town early, is town now

What do you think of NotScience fading out the way he did? He was pretty active in Wicked while this game was going on.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, I read Brian Skies games and meta and he in general makes a bit more sense here and comes across in a genuine way than he does in his scumgames. I wished I could see obvtown-Brian that he was in an old Mismatched Flavor game but it is what it is.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Your leftovers are EXACTLY who I would say are the scumteam.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey Nacho/Bork, you still good on your offer to lynch Mastin today?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mastin posts are funny but meh. Nothing he can't fake as scum.

Waiting on the inactives basically. Kagura, Orc, Clyton, Titan. I want to see where they vote. And Breakfast.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

We need 4 more votes on Mastin. I'll provide one once I get the town on the same page.

Kagura - I hope will keep their word.

Titan might.

Breakfast might.

BRO needs to cash in the notscience sheep vote.

DV may vote back.

We have enough. Just need to marshall the troops.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Updated List: Tl;dr - It is Mastin/Rancid/AP + one of the bottom group.

DEAD

1 LordBusiness - Roleblocker with possibility of re-entry into the game
2 Mac - Paranoid Bodyguard that also rolestops target

3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha) - Janitored, scumread for me

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:

*Unconditionally town no matter what*

1 Yggdra Union
2 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)

*Conditionally town upon Mastin's/Rancid's scumflip*

4 Cupcake Panda
5 PeregrineV
6 orcinus_theoriginal
7 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV) - most paranoid about Ceph

<gap>

* one scum is probably here*

8 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
9 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
10 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
11 Clyton

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:
12 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
13 AngryPidgeon

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pie, thoughts on the latest events?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

There are four votes on him (JSU, PV, you, Orc). Fox unvoted and said he is town. RG unvoted and voted Kagura.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And yeah, AP is totally scum. Scumreading me for making a wall about BRO was just #$&#^%&$$@%&

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

ffery should really be sheeping me about mastin

the fact that she's not almost wanna makes me scumread her in itself. (can't explain don't ask) and makes perfect sense with a Breakfast/mastin/AP team

also, ffery never has any actual scumreads. she always just does "not so town" for her scumeads. but it's screwed up that they have like 8 towntowntown reads. you're not supposed to have that many of those

Yeah, her response to my wall was lacking. I don't know. Yeah, ffery is either having an off-game or is scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, GIF - you should talk to ffery about how you want Mastin lynched. Maybe you can get through to her.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

This game is giving me a headache. I am not sure how I can smooth out Titan/JSU back-and-forths.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Here's what my issue is but I am not sure quite how to phrase it.

I don't understand Titan's defense of ffery when Desp made perfectly valid points about his concerns. I don't know why she is choosing to comment on JSU's posts just to disagree with them.

Specifically, when BRO told AP that his push on me based on the miller thing didn't make sense because I skimmed the last day thread, Titan chose to comment on it and say how BRO is holding them to different standards. Titan made no comment about AP's actual push to tell him that it was dumb (it was).

The second issue is Titan's comment to Pieguyn about how Mastin wasn't trying to discredit me.

The third issue is

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The third issue is that Titan didn't comment on AP's misrep on my BRO-wall to tell him "that's not what the wall was about" but is instead spending time defending ffery/other players. I am not sure where the issue is rooted in. If I can figure it out and communicate it effectively, it will clear some things up.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Is it the one in the dead thread? I should go and check.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Not for long though. You called the scumteam pretty quickly.

Where do you want to go from here regarding achieving the Mastin lynch. 8 votes to lynch. I doubt PV and Orc will change their mind or at least I hope not. With the three of us, that's five votes. We need to convince three more people.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, I hope so with regard to Fox Hound and RG. RG also owes BRO a sheep so I hope they'll hold up.

I know both heads of Titan so I hope Tammy at least will sheep me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Looking forward to hearing them.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

titan/ffery/ap/{mac, cupcake}

Dude, Mac is dead and flipped town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But that actually makes some sort of sense but it seems so ridiculous all the same. Okay, ffery I can buy. But Titan?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Dude, Mac is dead and flipped town.

like i said i'm not totally sober

titan's d1 was pretty town but she's been really scummy today.

In what way has Titan's play been scummy?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You actually made me unsure about my read on Titan.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I wonder if it is possible that Mastin didn't make a huge massive profile of everyone in the game and that it is actually Tammy going "

lol, I can get Falcon mislynched while he still townreads me and I'll use that IGMEOU emoticon he townread so hard in the spectator QT of Tales of Vesperia

."

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But the last scum in that case would be Kagura though, not Cupcake. As BRO said, Cupcake is trust tell level of town and Nacho is scummy as fuck.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

SCUM QT (Scene 1)

:

Tammy

: Fucking hell. I thought I exhausted all my scum roles this year.

Heh Nacho

I'm headed to work, check in later.

Nacho

: I was hoping to draw town with Tammy but scum with Tammy will have to do.

Bork

: HEY GUYS GOT MY ROLE PM NOW

Tammy

: Shit, Mastin pegged me on my first post. That has to be a record.

Nacho

: Stay calm, no fear.

Tammy

: Heh, Falcon's post looks awkward. Going to push on him for a bit.

Nacho

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I know! They wouldn't want to jump on an RBD deadline wagon because it would implicate them. But they kill him N1 and janitor him to set up a Mastin lynch.

I am going to have fun writing the entire scum QT. Will probably post in thread.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pie, we're out of our minds right?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, so I've been thinking about this for a while. Mastin-Rancid town explains a lot of things but only at a surface level. Consider this: Rancid was being run up and the Nacho jumps in at deadline hardcore whiteknighting them like he usually does as scum. Tammy votes and unvotes and refuses to vote them because she doesn't want to leave her vote on a charismatic town player. Rancid accurately nail Tammy as scum and get mad at me for spending my time working and collaborating with a scumbag (Tammy). Mastin nails her as well based on her opening post to Nacho which she knows she has to do if she was town. She did it with Empire in Red Wine and rinses and repeats with Nacho. Ffery's read on Mastin and Rancid involves basically letting the town tear each other apart but with no conclusions. Ffery gives hugs and kisses to Nati as we push their mislynch and they beg and appeal to her. She fooled Nati before. She fooled Muffin before. Why can't she do it again? They die town-reading her and complimenting her while painting Tammy for the scum that she is and cussing me out for strong townreading her.

Nacho doesn't have time to post so asks Bork to cover most of the posting. Bork does fantastic and looks pro-town as hell. His buddy Ffery stages a sort with him so that she can eventually townread him and push him as town-town-town and she's never hear a word against him. AngryPidgeon enters the game and everyone is overjoyed. AP accuses me of buddying with Tammy and Tammy distances from him ever so slightly and takes my side. Whenever Mastin or Rancid attack her, she pushes back but never really powers through a lynch on them. Nacho also suggests that Beli not post a lot since it is a classic ffery scumtell for her to take a backseat in scum hydras. So with Ffery controlling all the posting and the guy that prefers playing scum not posting at all, people invariably townread Beliffery. The rest of the game involves ffery not posting scumreads at all other than saying that Beli thinks Mastin is scum hoping the town will eat themselves alive.

Nacho specifically tells Tammy to continue townreading me but not strongly and always leaving open the possibility of a mislynch. After all, it has to be town that alienates me and not him or Tammy who will have to continue buddying and townreading me throughout the game. Nacho might push on me as he did during the Mentor-Mentee game but buddying me is so much easier because I don't want to read Nacho as scum. He offers the same advice to Tammy but it moderation. Tammy eggs me on with paranoia of Mastin saying that "Mastin said in Anything Goes that everyone will read him as town and those that don't will be mislynched by the players that are townreading him." That she believes would fuel my paranoia and make me push harder against Mastin and get more likely lynched as more people call me out for the push.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If I post this in thread, all hell will break loose. But hey, it doesn't seem like a horrible idea. This game needs something to kick it into action.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And then... reality hits:

1) Mastin's push on me D1 was a whole load of horseshit and the incredibly manipulative way he went about it makes no sense as town.

2) Mastin and AP working in tandem to snag the PV lynch also doesn't make sense.

3) Mastin's continued push on The Fox and The Hound until it was apparent they wouldn't be lynched was crap.

4) Rancid retracting the miller claim after being cc'd was a load of garbage.

5) Mastin and AP working in tandem to get PV lynched screams scum distancing.

6) Mastin's reaction to the BRO wall was basically a scumclaim - or as good as.

---

For the first time, I'm looking at alternative possibilities but I think there are a few things to take into consideration regarding Mastin's attack on Ffery:

1) I openly stated to Tammy that Mastin attacking low hanging fruit is raising alarms.

2) Mastin can see that several people are frustrated with Ffery and might be playing off of our frustration so it would resonate with us and we can "relate" to him when he too is mad at ffery.

This second point really makes me think Mastin-scum.

I'll rethink things and sleep on it. Yeah, I guess on some level it makes sense but the more obvious viewpoint still is making more sense to me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

They were wagoned hard D1. Probably a janitor vig.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It is not a dumb move. I'd have done it. Them being out of the game takes out a very likely scum who narrowly dodged a D1 lynch and makes the game a ton more fun.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tammy is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

See her latest posts.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay Desp, so the reason I'm reading Titan as town is that the entire body of work she has put forth so far in thread is pretty difficult to fake. Tammy as scum can sometime do decently well but the truly open scumhunting that she has done this game felt incredibly town. Her defense of ffery makes sense because Ffery is waffling a lot.

I think you make good points with your attacks on Ffery and I am not sure how best to mediate between everyone although I am giving it my best shot. I can try to show Tammy that you are town but I doubt ffery will listen to my reads.

I feel now that they are both very, very, very town.

As to who is scum with Mastin or AP, I haven't got a clue.

Spoiler: updated reads

DEAD

1 LordBusiness - Roleblocker with possibility of re-entry into the game
2 Mac - Paranoid Bodyguard that also rolestops target

3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha) - Janitored, scumread for me

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:

1 Yggdra Union
2 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
4 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
5 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
6 Cupcake Panda
7 PeregrineV
8 orcinus_theoriginal
9 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
10 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)


<gap>


11 Clyton - Could be scum by POE but not an actual scumread

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:
12 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
13 AngryPidgeon

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

COULD Mastin be town? That would fit in with his role.

But then I look at Pie's confidence in him flipping scum and it restores my own confidence and feels like it is the right push all along.

This game is killing me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pie, tell me not to waffle and that is the right push.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

YOUR READS LOOK JUST LIKE MINE!

So, you are agreed that Breakfast is in the top category?

And yeah, the top list makes perfect sense.

A 3 person scumteam from the leftover reads doesn't make any sense.

AP would have to be one obviously. But who else? Nacho-Ffery-Tammy being the others feels increasingly stupid.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I guess that's a go to push the fuck out of a Mastin lynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, why aren't you voting Mastin?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh, also Desp, the way Tammy is interacting with me and bouncing thoughts off of me felt town. Especially with regard to Nacho's latest posts. It would make sense for her to look for a second opinion after Nacho and I hydra'd in Wicked and I don't think she as scum would think to re-inforce her read on Nacho that way. The way she's bouncing thoughts off of Nacho with regard to Mastin also looks very, very town.

I don't know if that's the way she'd interact with me as scum. If you look at Z-Mafia, all three of us did pretty much the same thing though more intensely.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What do you mean "yet?"

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

As in today?

There are about 5 days left to deadline.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

5 votes so far on Mastin.

No votes on AP (besides Mastin's)

I'll probably wind up voting one of them because I can't see who else would be scum besides crazy therories.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Mod, please reject Tammy's request for replacement

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

At least tell her that Nacho and I requested to reject it and reconsider.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

His buddies would have stopped him from doing what?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Who is Aegina by the way? TheNewEarth?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't think Mastin and AP know about Mara's and Tammy's past issues.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Look at me confbiasing like a boss.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Actually ffery wanting Tammy back makes so much sense from a town POV based on their previous discussion. So, Breakfast is also town-town-town-town-town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Spoiler: updated reads

DEAD

1 LordBusiness - Roleblocker with possibility of re-entry into the game
2 Mac - Paranoid Bodyguard that also rolestops target

3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman and natirasha) - Janitored, scumread for me

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:

1 Yggdra Union
2 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
4 Breakfast With Stalin (Hydra of ffery and beli)
5 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
6 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
7 PeregrineV
8 Cupcake Panda
9 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
10 orcinus_theoriginal

<gap>

11 Clyton - Could be scum by POE but not an actual scumread

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:
12 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
13 AngryPidgeon

So, the reads are re-arranged but I feel like I'm in the exact same fucking place.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

also this read is a bit bullshit but I don't think this would have happned if orci was scum. bc his buddies would have stopped him from doing it in the scum QT

2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
14 Cupcake Panda
16 Clyton

this feels too easy

Okay, two questions:

- What are your thoughts on Cupcake voting Mastin now and most of D1 and the fact that he is never this inactive as scum?

- Cephrir makes me paranoid as all hell. If I am wrong about Clyton, it is probably Magenta or Fox.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Spoiler: updated reads

DEAD

1 LordBusiness - Roleblocker with possibility of re-entry into the game
2 Mac - Paranoid Bodyguard that also rolestops target

3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman + natirasha) - Janitored, scumread for me

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:

1 Yggdra Union (GIF + Pieguyn)
2 Titan (Tammy + Ser Arthur Dane)
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado)
4 Breakfast With Stalin (Ffery + Beli)
5 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
6 Nachomamma8
7 PeregrineV
8 Cupcake Panda
9 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
10 MagentaTheGreat (Orcinus + Mara)

<gap>

11 Clyton - Could be scum by POE but not an actual scumread

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:

12 MastinSSK (Mastin2 + MafiaSSK)
13 AngryPidgeon

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What if you're wrong about Rancid?

Mara's reach out to Tammy felt genuine, didn't it?

I literally can't see who would be scum besides Mastin/Rancid/AP/Clyton.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't wanna write cupcake off bc "he never lurks as scum". it's really easy to fake. even if he hasn't faked it yet, this might be the game where he realizes what he's doing and fixes it - it's not like most trust level tells where it's hard to change

I'm taking the mastin vote as null bc it could easily be distancing

idk if cephrir would bus mastin here given I know he said somewhere he's adverse to bussing unless there's no reason not to. but I could maybe see it

Ceph was townreading Mastin. DV was the one scumreading him. DV is the one I feel is incredibly genuine and townish here and is the rock in that hydra.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, the biggest risk of a mislynch is probably PV.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Would love to see your catch up posts.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Should I stay up?

It is 2:40 AM here but I probably will.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Went to bed and woke up now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Ffery is mediating? That doesn't feel like a very accurate description of what's happening in thread.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

" you can janitor the first one of you two's flip means that you're not afraid to buddy to shit like you did D1."

Interesting idea that could be true. I hope it is and Rancid's alignment is revealed so we don't go the whole game worrying about it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Do you think Clyton is scum?

Watcher + Bodyguard seems like too much town protective power.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Rancid/Mastin/AP/Clyton. Makes perfect sense.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah. I wonder who the replacement is going to be.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Shadowing?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Are you saying it points to him being scum with AP?

I am getting mildly paranoid that the real scumteam consisting of AP/Clyton and two other people are setting us up to take the fall on Mastin's townflip.

BUT, I also think Mastin is scum and it could be that they want us to be paranoid as back off.

I don't know. We're strong enough players that if Mastin flips town, we'll bring AP down.

And if Mastin flips scum, we'll bring AP down.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You think Nacho is misreading Tammy?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If Tammy is scum, Nacho is scum with her, not ffery.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why not say it in thread?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll talk to Tammy about it if I can say where I got this from (Desp).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, but I am going to bring up that you pointed this out so I can solidify a read on Tammy? Is that okay?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I hate you for making me paranoid as fuck when everything was so clear before.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Should we just lynch AP?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Screw you Desp, LOL

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

PA is probable scum LOL.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

BUT, if she is, I'll figure her out in an instant and get her lynched SO.

That's not something that worries me.

HOWEVER, if she's town, brilliant. One more amazing player added to the town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The central core as I see it are: Mastin, AP, desbro, you, stalin with a little pie and me added in for flavor.

The periphery is everyone else.

If Mastin flipped town my reads on desbro, nacho, pie and maybe you might feel in flux. That might be because of neighborhood, but I would be looking at all of you cross-eyed trying to figure out which one of you were scum pulling everyone's strings.

This struck my interest the more I thought about it. Why are those the players the ones that you would be looking at if Mastin flipped scum?

That doesn't make any sense and Desp said in the neighborhood that he feels you might be setting us up which makes me paranoid as fuck. I won't go as far as that but something about what Clyton said made me think it is possible scum are setting us up upon Mastin's townflip.

I'd expect town-you to read me and Nacho independent of others. Okay, I figure Nacho is a good scum player that may be able to fool you and you might want to double-check it with other flips but you know me and my playstyle enough that I am not sure why Mastin's flip would influence your read on me at all. And you know my play is massively different from AoT and Wicked. I am not sure how you think I could have played well enough to fool

you

of all people in this game while simultaneously sucking enough in Wicked that you say in the dead thread you'd add me to the list of people who suck as scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Just saving my response here. I want to wait for Penguin to catch up before talking about this.

I can read Tammy and I think she's town. I hate for making me paranoid, Desp.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Imagine if Nacho, Tammy, and Penguin are all scum. I would hate to have to lynch all of them to win

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

NACHO, why would you portray Ffery as a "mediator" between Mastin and I?

The only person who has been mediating stuff is me so the Ffery characterization doesn't make any sense.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That went well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Desp, get the hell out there and be transparent and be you and post what you need to post. It really isn't fair for the rest of the town for me to keep shutting down suspicion of you guys when you are being deliberately not transparent in the thread.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey Nacho, are you still there?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Post in the thread if you don't mind.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, I just read Viscon-Wingate Mansion. Still reading it.

Why do you think Tammy not trusting you is scummy?

And why the fuck are you not posting in thread?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Her not trusting the neighborhood is actually pretty fucking town.

Subject: Mini 1489 - VisCon: Murder at Wingate Mansion [Game Over]

And I don't give a crap about your cryptic answers. I. don't. trust. your. neighborhood.

How many more times do i have to say it.

Posts like these.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That actually concerns me about YOU. You were in the game. So what that fuck is it about the setting up thing?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You and Titan are both obvtown.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I was talking about your scumread on Titan but if you don't think they are scum, that's a non-issue.

At this point, I would bet the game on you and Titan both being town (and Yggdra and Nacho as well).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It could be Orc and Mara based on their unvote.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, it is Mastin/Rancid/AP + one of Maraorc/Penguin. Gotta figure out which.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What do you think of the unvote Pie?

You think Mara is on a team with Mastin trying to distance?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And look. Nearly nine. Six+ hours. Tired, hungry, need to use the bathroom, and really.
Fucking.
Sick.

You know it's bad when your lurker of a hydra partner tells you that you need a break.
Soyeah. I'm probably done for the day.

This feels incredibly scummy. Mastin as scum is known to pride himself on his scumgame and it is the sort of thing that would make more sense for him to do as scum.

---

Also, anyone notices how his suspect lists keep changing to fit what is popular at the time?

I said I found PV town and he suddenly no longer has PV as a scumread after I mentioned how I get massive glaring red flags everytime Mastin or Nacho bring up PV as a suspect.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I feel like I should have a stronger read here if he's town

This bugs me. I feel like you copied Tammy's reasoning. She has reason to feel that way about me but why would you?

I can go into more detail when I get home. I feel like we've played enough games together now that by mid day 2 I should feel pretty confident you're town. I also feel your read of me has been hedgy. your recent reads list doesn't alleviate that. what flips would solidify your read on me and why?

I think you are unlikely to be scum with Mastin. I'll have to think about Rancid. You derailed their lynch but the way they were appealing to you constantly and you sending them hugs feels like you are unlikely to be scum with them either and it'll help clear my mind.

What will clear your mind? Rancid's flip? Why are you expecting that flip before end of game? Do you think someone has the info about their alignment?

The one time you had to read me, you struggled to get a read although had me as leaning town so I don't know if you expected the same results or better.

Valid or not, my assumption is that reads are more easily formed with greater exposure to someone's play. And I feel like I"m reaching a point where I should have a pretty strong opinion by the end of day 1.

And in fact I did have a strong opinion by the end of day 1. But from your stances and questions it apparently isn't mutual. And I don't understand why. So the lack of mutuality is troubling and I wonder if my strong opinion was premature.

Your read on me is one thing that bugs me about you because I feel like I've been quite obviously town.

So do I. I feel like anyone who actually understands what differentiates my town game from my scum game should have no trouble reading me this game. And I thought that you had such an understanding because if anyone on this site has troubled to meta me you have. Nacho, too, but with him it's mostly experiential meta and the occasional follow-along of a game he isn't playing.

For example, leading a wagon on Rancid and putting this much effort into collaborating with the town. I'm also the most obviously town player from our neighborhood.

Your Rancid wagon did no favors with me. Putting this much effort in has been somewhat targeted and tactical, and I think you would do that no matter what your alignment. I think the way you have gone about it looks town, but not god-tier town which you keep insisting you've reached.

I am not sure why you'd expect to be read as obviously town when you haven't been.

Because you expect me to see you as obviously town. You're not the final judge of your towniness. And you haven't gotten over yourself. you're still expecting me to just...change my read.

I was completely taken aback that some players, including you and Bro, didn't have me solidly town but I'm dealing with it. I'm not haranguing you for not townreading me.

It's like you think you can bludgeon people into townreading you. Maybe that works sometimes with some players. All it does is get my back up.

Most of it D1 has been me and Pie leading the game and later Nacho

That's your opinion. I felt like whether the effect was good or ill, I was a large factor in how day 1 resolved, particularly that it didn't end with Rancid's lynch.

and D2 has been entirely me, you and Tammy trying to get on the same page

No it hasn't. There has been a lot of other stuff going on.

and figuring out where to go from there and Nacho's latest posts pushing everyone towards a Mastin lynch.

But this is key and will probably determine how this game day ends.

You are aware that your meta falls under different categories and some are easier to read as town than others. For example, AA: MFA when you led the lynch on Brian, you were fairly obviously town. I've meta'd you enough that I can catch all of your towngames but I don't know why you wouldn't want me to be certain in a game where you are not obvtown.

I don't care that you aren't certain. I care that you've been undermining me and raising suspicions about me all of day 2 and I really think you ought to take a look at the company you're keeping.

I looked lynchable at least at one point this game day. I'm really surprised there wasn't a stronger push than there was. But some consideration of who took advantage of that, who distanced, and how that impacted other nascent wagons wouldn't be a bad thing no matter what my alignment.

Your hesitation in reading me is one of the things that make me hesitate in reading you as top-tier town which is weird because you are hesitating on me because of

my

read on you.

Aside from "omgwtf you don't have any scumreads" you've done precious little aside from try to get me to vote with you.

This post feels like a crap load of discrediting.

Considering I contributed a massive fuckton of content into the thread and spent a ridiculous amount of time mediating, resolving conflicts, providing reads, working with players, and building cohesiveness in the town, this feels like a blatant disconnect from reality.

Nacho, how strong is your townread on Ffery?

I still feel like this is Ffery's towngame. I just hope Rancid flips at some point and she sees the light and stops with the discredits.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

BRO, what is your read on AP? Your latest updated read?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

He just got hammered. I hope he is scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

MastinSSK got hammered.

I have no idea why Tammy quickhammered him but I hope he is scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You gotta be fucking kidding me.

Should have figured he was town when every player in the game besides AP voted him at some point or another.

Fuck it.

Wonder who dies tonight.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

AP is confirmed scum. That much is obvious.

But who are AP's buddies? Penguin is obvious. LOL at jumping into the game to go after Mastin.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

My reads are completely fucked. It could be RG. It could be Fox/Hound. Both slots votes were dubious. I still have no idea wtf the conversation with Tammy/Ffery was before quickhammering or why she quickhammered. I just don't think she wouldn't make me feel like crap over the neighborhood thing if she actually was scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

DEAD

1 LordBusiness - Roleblocker with possibility of re-entry into the game
2 Mac - Paranoid Bodyguard that also rolestops target

3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman + natirasha) - Janitored, scumread for me

4 MastinSSK (Mastin2 + MafiaSSK) - Bulletproof Re-incarnated god

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:

1 Yggdra Union (GIF + Pieguyn) - Cannot be scum despite flip.
2 Titan (Tammy + Ser Arthur Dane) - There is no way Tammy as scum continues to push BRO's post and aggravates it. I want to think she's a better person than that and anything about it came genuinely because of their lack of activity in thread.
3 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - Impossible to be scum

** Would bank the game on these reads **

Null reads:
4 Breakfast With Stalin (Ffery + Beli)
5 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
6 Nachomamma8
7 PeregrineV
8 Cupcake Panda
9 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
10 MagentaTheGreat (Orcinus + Mara)

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:

11 AngryPidgeon - GUARANTEED SCUM
12 Penguin_alien - VERY LIKELY SCUM

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Did Nacho just scumslip about Rancid's janitor flip (or deliberately rub it in?)

Maybe it is he who is tied to Rancid and if one of them die, they are janitored until the other dies as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

AngryPidgeon, Nachomamma8, Penguin_Alien, Breakfast with Stalin.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

HOLY SHIT, I just realized. AP/Nacho hydra - they decided to do this in the scum QT.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bork is not a terribad scum player anyways. He survived a won a game with Ffery and Penguin in it as town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tammy is town for calling him out. She's wrong about JSU but right about Kagura and possibly Magenta but I don't know.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

AP has to be scum. There's no ifs or buts around it. It is impossible for him to be town.

Who is the second scum? It could be Nacho. Would he really fuel all the emotions to drive a mislynch. That's not the Nacho I know and something would have had to happen to make him truly evil.

Same with Tammy. I keep fantasizing about a scumteam with Tammy but in every iteration of it, the fantasy Tammy is more evil than the Tammy I know in reality.

What about Penguin? She has to be scum. Her interactions with AP fit as scum-scum. AP's interactions with Nacho fit as scum-scum. Nacho's interactions with Orc fit as scum-scum. Did Mastin really call the scumteam entirely?

Or could we replace RG with Penguin?

AP/Nacho/Penguin/Magenta

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, you are sure Nacho is town?

I dunno. AP and Nacho saying they would hydra in thread felt weird - like they planned it in the scum QT. But that's reaching the same level of crazy as Tammy's theory about Prohawk and Nacho in tales of vesperia so.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, that was weird as hell though, wasn't it?

I wanted Penguin to be town because she is an amazing town player but look at her play:

1) Clyton's policy lynch proposal was shit.
2) His watcher claim was weird as fuck.
3) Bodyguard + Watcher in a game seems like a lot of power.
---
4) Penguin "caught up" with the game to lead a lynch on Mastin with a massive amount of conviction? It feels like she's playing to me. We sort of talked about her game and she knows that I would expect the way she pushes lynches to differ as town and scum but this seems rather overdone.
5) Did you see just how much she hedged on BRO? It was ridiculous.

I misread her first post because I wanted her to be town. I really, really did. But fuck it. She's the second scum. I am near certain about it because of the five points I listed above.

So, Pidgeon, Penguin. Who else?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

NACHO, WHO ARE THE SCUM NOW?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I almost have a weird feeling that Fox and RG could be scum together and be the remaining scum.

Or it could be Nacho and Magenta like Tammy said. Nacho could be bussing Orc. Why the fuck did he lead a lynch D1 on a D1 only governor? That makes it a hell of a co-incidence.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5864372

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Two posts after that.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5864659

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

btw I know how people get when they get on tilt or are having an off game because the same happened to me in xenosaga. you basically take it out in the form "i'm town, you KNOW xx and yy about my play, you all must be fucking scum for not seeing that" and then from an outside POV it comes across really off and is often incorrect. so I don't wanna necessarily sheep mastin's read on Nacho here

I dunno about Nacho. But I 100% want to sheep his read on AP. Nacho, we'll have to talk about later.

AP is scum. Penguin is scum. That much I am certain about.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I guess "slip" is an overstatement.

I just wondered how he came to that conclusion. Actually now that I think of it, it is not conclusive at all.

I don't know. I WANT Nacho to be town and I hope he is.

But why did he completely ignore Pidgeon yesterday and tunnelfuck Mastin?

Also, Pidgeon is know to fake-claim guilties on people so his cop claim is the sort of thing that I'd expect from him as scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Subject: Tales of You (Day 2)

A shudder runs throughout the miasma. Bones, thought to be lost forever, rise back to the surface. Even in defeat, sword dancer had the last laugh.

The corpse of Rancid Broderick Drake, formerly veiled, is revealed to be Sword Dancer, Town Battleseeker*

*A modified gladiator

FML, I fucking suck, suck, suck at this game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

DEAD

1 LordBusiness - Roleblocker with possibility of re-entry into the game
2 Mac - Paranoid Bodyguard that also rolestops target
3 Rancid Broderick Drake (zmuffinman + natirasha) - Sword Dancer, Town Battleseeker* *A modified gladiator
4 MastinSSK (Mastin2 + MafiaSSK) - Bulletproof Re-incarnated god

Town (Strongest->Weakest)

:

1 Yggdra Union (GIF + Pieguyn) - Cannot be scum despite flip.
2 Just Sheep Us (Broseidon and Desperado) - Impossible to be scum
3 Titan (Tammy + Ser Arthur Dane) - I told Cabd in sitechat "If Tammy is scum, I will cry." Then I'll scream "how could you do this" as loudly as I can.

** Would bank the game on these three reads **

Null reads:
4 Breakfast With Stalin (Ffery + Beli)
5 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
6 Nachomamma8
7 PeregrineV
8 Cupcake Panda
9 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
10 MagentaTheGreat (Orcinus + Mara)

Scum (Strongest->Weakest)

:

11 AngryPidgeon - GUARANTEED SCUM
12 Penguin_alien - VERY LIKELY SCUM

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

In some ways, I am glad Rancid flipped town. This way at least, Ffery and Mac can look at the neighborhood posting and figure out that I am a moron as opposed to an insufferable a-hole who always needs to be right. So, better this way.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What about Tammy, Pie?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What do you think of Desp's accusation that she might be setting them (and possibly me) up?

She did quickhammer Mastin after waffling for days and days and days (If you are town Tammy, sorry for this crazy paranoia when you see the neighborhood at endgame).

She doesn't see what I see. In my past experience with her, it always felt like we saw eye to eye with everything. We think similarly even if our playstyles are vastly different. That's how we are able to work together. But so far, I don't even know what to say.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

For example, look at D1 of NY169. We both suspected Maraca and were on the same page completely. Look at any other game we played together. Z-Mafia, PYP, and the older ones like Swagtown, Rarefaction II, Black Flag (although we didn't talk much in Black Flag).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay. I'll trust you for now.

I feel like I could make an actual case against her and that's why it bugs me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If the vig shoots town tonight, we have one more mislynch before it is LYLO. If not, we have one mislynch before MYLO.

It sucks. Scum have a lot of mislynch targets as well.

And what the fuck is Tammy going after PV for. It is like I can't follow ANY of her suspicions for shit.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You really want to see it. There are SO many things that bug me.

She's still not a priority though. AP is a hard lynch and I don't want anyone to be distracted from that. If Tammy or Penguin are town, pushing them would be such a massive fucking distraction, it would ruin the town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

DESPITE being wrong, I am more certain than ever before that AP is scum here. That should our focus tomorrow.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tammy replacing out isn't alignment indicative.

She would never FAKE a replace out. But a real replace out as scum is not out of question.

Hey, can you do me a favor and see her late interactions with Generic in Too Many Heads and give me your thoughts about that.

It is not something that is unfakeable for her.

But yeah, AP should be the focus.

If scum get a mislynch today, we are fucked and he is the only one I am sure is not going to be a mislynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Read this post. Then click on her ISO and continue reading the next few ISO posts and talk to me about what you see: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5638170

Also, it is fantastic having you as a pseudo hydra partner when my real one flaked out btw.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5651308

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

This post as well: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5652004

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

WOW, I am an idiot. Tammy-scum doesn't make sense at all.

Magenta the great's role conflicts with Rancid, ergo scum. Nacho pushed a lynch on them D1 ergo scum. Mastin and Tammy both caught it.

AP is scum. Penguin is scum. RG and Fox are distant fifth and sixth suspects.

But seriously, it has to be AP/Penguin/Nacho/Magenta. It makes perfect sense as a scumteam.

And LOL at me saying that Rancid are insulting Tammy's and my analytical posts if Tammy's actually scum, they were right all along so meh.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Who is scum, NAcho?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, read through again. Tammy is town, town, town. So, no case.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I SHOULD be studying but I keep getting obsessed and coming back to this game.

Bulletproof + Bodyguard + Watcher?

Crap no. Penguin is scum. She was scum from her play and she is scum from her role.

Only question is: who is scum with AP and Penguin?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

AngryPidgeon/PenguinAlien are definitely scum. I looked through Rancid's ISO and he suspects Clyton as well. Most of Clyton's posts are shit actually.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What's BRO's read on AP? Has he come around?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So Desp, I don't actually believe that Tammy is heartless enough to rub in BRO's rl issues if she was scum. I think I know her well enough that this would be completely off-limits for her as a method of attack as scum. Sure, she might "suspect" BRO but if she did what she did as scum, it would be downright malicious and she wouldn't do it. As town, if she genuinely has suspicions, they can't be put aside so it makes more sense.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That quickhammer was a huge wtf though. Tammy takes her time as town and waffles until deadline.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

But this is not any player we are talking about. It is someone who has a conscience.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

there's a reason i'm not really posting a lot in the thread and tammy's reaction to me is a prime example

If you think she's scum, then why aren't you posting?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I dunno Desp.

I kinda want to lynch AP with everything we have - this won't be fun. Then I want to tunnelfuck Penguin - this will be amazingly fun because Penguin is fun and I want to see who wins the battle of words this game.

Then I'll re-evaluate everyone alive besides you and Pie. If Tammy is still alive then, I'll comb through her ISO to get a solid read on her.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Nacho, in your next post, please give me your reads on AngryPidgeon, Penguin_Alien, and Tammy

. Thanks!

Also, I am not completely sure you are town so I am not sure when is the right time to say this: I am sorry about venting at you for defending Rancid and Mastin. If you are town, you were right all along. If you are scum, well played. I am also sorry about referencing Touhou regardless of your affiliation. I shouldn't have done it.

I don't know. I'll apologize properly after the game if you are town. I am not sure what else I want to say right now while I still worry about you being scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, I think Rancid were behind most of it if not all. To some extent Mastin but it is a tricky thing. AP has been personal as well. To a small extent Ffery although it was more mutual disagreements.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, Nacho, can you please explain where your Orc vote D1 came from and why you were so confident in it and why you never persued it again?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

This post is MASSIVELY scummy:

@ Penguin, looking forward to hearing your case. I'd also like to see where you are at with the rest of your reads. Have you and Tammy discussed BRO's meltdown post yet? I was hoping to hear your thoughts on that too whenever you are caught up and get around to it.

Saw this in preview when posting my (partial) mastin thoughts. It's 3 AM, so this won't be comprehensive. Tammy and I haven't discussed it yet, except that she wants my read on BRO.

I'll say straight up that based on everything I know about BRO via playing Mafia with him here and offsite and hydraing, there's no way he fakes that.

If (and that's a big if from reading 3020) he's scum, he's still genuinely upset at the way mastin is going after him. I will say that from my experience with scum-mastin, she can go after teammates in very unproductive ways (see: Open 541, where we almost blew LyLo because mastin thought it would be a good idea to push Mhork while ignoring all the planning in the scum QT).

HOWEVER.

Much

as I know BRO shakes up his scum game and makes some strange plays as either alignment, this doesn't feel insincere at all

, or to be more precise, coming from anything other than frustrated town. To be honest, I almost feel like just snipping this post out of my mental calculations, because it feels way intrusive for the game to have put him in a situation where he felt that he needed to share it. I won't, because it also feels wrong to disregard his forthrightness.

I'm sorry,

there are some things in his ISO that I noticed while skimming for the 'meltdown' post

(although I'm not really comfortable calling it a meltdown; heaven knows as someone who's dealt with issues that were hard to discuss I know exactly how painful it is to reveal that stuff, and calling it a meltdown feels condescending, to be frank)

that made me think he could be scum and some things that made me think town.

My very brief overall impression is that BRO came into the game excited about the player list and anticipating a fun game. There's some banter-type stuff that feels alignment-independent and so in my paranoia might make me think scum-BRO. But as he keeps posting, there's super-genuine sounding posts AND, more importantly, posts that read like the insightful BRO I'm used to watching work in-hydra when I darn well know his alignment.

I'm on the verge of conking out, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where I am.

I may not be good at reading BRO as a mafia player,

but I'd like to think I have a sense of his personality well enough that I know him hitting a limit wasn't staged. Maybe I'm presuming too much, given that we're more Mafia friends than 'dish about life' friends, but that's how my brain works. I'll read the other 300+ posts from the JSU hydra after I get some sleep and try to get a sense of their alignment here.

Because, F-16, as much as I respect your play and would like to work with you if you're town here, if we hadn't misread BRO in Wicked I'd have neighborized him over you-Ghatokaca in a heartbeat, and I know town-BRO can game-solve like a maniac.

P-edit: I'm sorry, I can't react to everything that's elapsed since I started writing this up...tomorrow.

Please read all the bolded and underlined stuff to see why this post is a fucking scum claim.

1) The "if" he is faking is rubbish. He is not faking shit and Penguin damn well knows it.

2) Hypothesizing about a Mastin/BRO scumteam is utterly ridiculous. Anyone that bothered to read the thread knows that this isn't true.

3) BRO shakes up his play is just inducing paranoia while reading him as town.

4) Holy fucking hedging on the "some things are town and some things are scum."

5) Underlined stuff: Fluff, buddying, hedging.

6) I may not be good at reading BRO is shirking responsibility for reading him.

Anyways, if people don't see Penguin as obvscum after this post, I don't know what to say.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Most of Clyton's posts are shit actually.

Which ones and why?
I can't say I have the patience to read his ISO, especially since I skimmed pretty much every single one of his posts the first round through.

His last post for example. Also, see my breakdown of Penguin's post.

What do you think of AP?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, but she was frustrated at people shutting down suspicion on her and no one listening and finally winding up being right.

I do think that the logical progression of suspicion is to push at AP if Mastin flips town because well, he told us all to lynch AP with his dying breath, not the people pushing on Mastin. How Tammy approaches the next day will influence my read on her.