Comparative Religion Mafia GAME OVAH
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Yo.
Give me the quick rundown.
Give me the quick rundown.
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Sure thing!In post 1066, AngryPidgeon wrote:Desperate times calls for paratrooping mastin into the frontline and demanding that she cough up a read on me immediately so I can figure out her alignment with all haste.
Lightning mastin.
I need some lightning in a bottle from you.
(You have no clue how much I've wanted to use
any
thing from that movie in a mafia game. When you said lightning and referenced bottles, I just couldn't resist. )My academy.
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Aaaaaaaanywaaaaay, basic rundown is that I'm basically immortal this game, and I think I get the mechanic, so I don't really need to obvtown myself to y'all right now. If I get some good reads, we'll be set.
I see AP, I see him in danger, and I'll see about a read on him when I have more time to look.
I see AP, I see him in danger, and I'll see about a read on him when I have more time to look.
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Btw, will have to check details of my PM later, but I don't think there's harm in claiming that my slot was a recruiter and recruited Quill but got itself converted to a different church which is so utterly devoid of content that I almost missed that there was a PT at all and wondered if the mod had forgotten to add me.
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(And neither religion I've really heard of.)
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To be fair, the thought crossed my mind that I was in for a scum role PM 'specially when UT mentioned that I'd have a PT. (Me not having bothered to look at the mechanics in that everyone would have one.) I also figured that you could be calling me in to save you, but I didn't attach an alignment to it (and don't really think you did). If scum, knowing I'd think off of whatever content you'd let me see that you're town; if town, seeing the town but knowing you could be scum.In post 1136, AngryPidgeon wrote:4. AP brought mastin into the game to replace trolllurkscum slot
I'm not going to lurk, here, yet I'm not
currently
following along; that'll be guaranteed to change when I'm not dealing with college 'n' such.My academy.
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(Basically, I should really be doing an iso or two just to so much as get a morsel of a feeling for the game, but I really am kinda past the time that I should've had.)
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In post 1141, AngryPidgeon wrote:Random point, I just clarified my (now gone) power with UT. If Im understanding it correctly, I may have actually been more of a limited Ascetic for only investigative roles. I think I may have been untrackable and unable to be watched.
(I have reasonz to be shifty of the claim. Not a scumclaim, but it's a inducing reaction from me at the very least, since it leaves me all )
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Headgun read on AP's town, btw.
Note said read's made from skimming like less than the bare essentials in that it's pathetically shallow surface-level stuffs that should be null if I was really bothering to read in details, but eh.
Note said read's made from skimming like less than the bare essentials in that it's pathetically shallow surface-level stuffs that should be null if I was really bothering to read in details, but eh.
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One dang day.In post 1177, Bacde wrote:Im waiting on mastin
Give me that much. V/LA for today. (As in, as soon as I get the message delivered everywhere, I'm gone gone.)
(Okay, maybe tomorrow.)
Then I'm all yours.
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Or, y'know. Busy for one dang day means. Busy for one dang day, and that as soon as that day's over. I'm going to read and figure out if you are getting mislynched (priority one) and then if so figure out what to do about it (priority two). One dang day means one dang day.In post 1180, AngryPidgeon wrote:Ya mastin is scum cause she would give a shit if she were town and I were being mislynched.
Btw, whoever recruited me's got a decent shot of being scum.
/leaving.
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Here, bonethrow.
Isoed mod--deadline's in ten days.
My V/LA's for two.
Hammering ANY player will be a scumclaim.
ESPECIALLY AP.
'Kay?
Isoed mod--deadline's in ten days.
My V/LA's for two.
Hammering ANY player will be a scumclaim.
ESPECIALLY AP.
'Kay?
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Geez, how many mod errors did UT make this game?
(There was a mod error with my current PT, there was a mod error in lack of communicating a message during daystart*, and by how scattered the notes on my role were sent, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more.)
*Vaguely relevant to my original flavor. (I'm apparently a little bit of a pedophile. And given flavor, someone else stealing from me is, too.)
/brief check-in.
(There was a mod error with my current PT, there was a mod error in lack of communicating a message during daystart*, and by how scattered the notes on my role were sent, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more.)
*Vaguely relevant to my original flavor. (I'm apparently a little bit of a pedophile. And given flavor, someone else stealing from me is, too.)
/brief check-in.
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I dunno, he's probably my scumbuddy defending me, though.In post 1193, Jargonaut wrote:Why aren't we lynching this guy?
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Do I tick you off that much?In post 1195, Bacde wrote:Yeah implo or mastin are my tock picks for todays lynch
(btw, someone I wanna vote but need to see current vc for; note dumped in PT on basic.)
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So. Feel like halfclaiming. I'm actually reading my role PM this time.
My role is Hades, recruiter for worshipers of Olympus. As far as I can tell, I started with no followers. Quill was the recruit.
My flavor vaguely references kidnapping brides.
I'm not sure whether it was actually a choice (initial PM said Abelcain could choose to answer questions and not join, but Abelcain chose to answer questions AND join), but I got recruited into a new church, following the aztec god of war.
Someone stole a young boy from me.
In the church PT, there was UT's post as an opener, and...literally just that. I was post #1. (This itself is suspicious enough.) UT said the church only had one member...but that (thanks to moderator error) said member should be back into the church, as soon as they saw the message and begin posting. (UT referred to the member as a 'he', for what it's worth.)
...I'm still the only one posting in there.
Meaning that the original recruiter has a high chance of being scum, both thanks to the lack of original usage and the lack of current usage.
Btw, gutreads is APtown and implosion-scum; I really didn't like implosion's WK of my slot and thought it looked like scum, well...WKing.
My role is Hades, recruiter for worshipers of Olympus. As far as I can tell, I started with no followers. Quill was the recruit.
My flavor vaguely references kidnapping brides.
I'm not sure whether it was actually a choice (initial PM said Abelcain could choose to answer questions and not join, but Abelcain chose to answer questions AND join), but I got recruited into a new church, following the aztec god of war.
Someone stole a young boy from me.
In the church PT, there was UT's post as an opener, and...literally just that. I was post #1. (This itself is suspicious enough.) UT said the church only had one member...but that (thanks to moderator error) said member should be back into the church, as soon as they saw the message and begin posting. (UT referred to the member as a 'he', for what it's worth.)
...I'm still the only one posting in there.
Meaning that the original recruiter has a high chance of being scum, both thanks to the lack of original usage and the lack of current usage.
Btw, gutreads is APtown and implosion-scum; I really didn't like implosion's WK of my slot and thought it looked like scum, well...WKing.
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Also, levi's town; fairly certain of that. (I could be wrong about thinking levi claimed what levi claimed, but don't think I am.)
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Vote: implosion
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Funny thing, here, though.
Assuming levi/LG town (which I kinda am, albeit LG not confirmed just feelin') and assuming Axxle town and thinking Bacdetown and probs-Klazam town, that'd leave a narrowed down list. Gutread on AP isn't strong enough to place in there though he's close, but even so...
Thinking this game is easily solvable at this point in time.
Assuming levi/LG town (which I kinda am, albeit LG not confirmed just feelin') and assuming Axxle town and thinking Bacdetown and probs-Klazam town, that'd leave a narrowed down list. Gutread on AP isn't strong enough to place in there though he's close, but even so...
Thinking this game is easily solvable at this point in time.
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Right, here we go.
I'm gonna momentarily assume Axxle, Bacde, Levi, and LG are all town.
Six slots for half that scum.
Implosion's a scumread even without role evidence apparently incriminating him.
But Klazam's posting looks town to me.
So thinking just off of these random bits and pieces of info that we can look in the remainder of {Jargonaut, Quill, BVC, AP} for two scum. Kinda sorta vaguely think PBC is one of 'em, and honestly I'm saying screw it and thinking AP could actually be scum but eh, not a read I want lynched until I buckle down and do the work. (Jargonaut would vaguely be my pick otherwise, though Quill's possible if there was mutual buddying between Quill's slot and my own.)
Bad reads, undoubtedly.
Not the best starting point, oh assuredly.
But it's better than nothing, and I'll try to sort thing through later to confirm these vague thingies I'm loosely tying together.
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I'm briefly doing skims of isos and finding my opinions on things not making any sense, with me waffling and whatnot on everything sometimes sticking with my original then immediately backing out then reinforcing so right now I don't think my head's in the right state of mind to sort things out, sorry.
You can use my last post as a basis for my reads or call "everyone null except levi town and implosion scum" (with Axxle looking fairly town) if you'd like, since both are technically accurate in different ways and times.
(Might be in part because right now, I'm actually...kinda dead-tired. I've been having a rough week and have been getting something like 4 hours of sleep instead of double that. I don't THINK I'm making any typos, but I think that my word choice right now feels different than normal. Obviously, it's a bit more rambly than normal and that's something that I think I could control if I wanted to but am choosing not to 'cause I feel like not, but I think there's more to it than that. It feels like the word structure in my head right now is different, and I'm using a more altered vocabulary from my norm. And while Mastin sentences do occasionally accidentally become non-sequiturs thanks to shifting mid-sentence from one train to another, I feel like this right now is actually on a whole 'nother level. And is directly tied to that tiredness, and not something that I can correct easily since it's my very mind thinking.)
Soyeah, tl;dr version is that I'm kinda thinking I'm probably not in the mental condition to be playing the analysis game. I can maybe play the reactionary "tell me what you think of this" game (even that's sorta iffy) right now, but until I can keep focus and clarity (at least, more than what I have right now), probs-not going to be the Mastin you know. :/
You can use my last post as a basis for my reads or call "everyone null except levi town and implosion scum" (with Axxle looking fairly town) if you'd like, since both are technically accurate in different ways and times.
(Might be in part because right now, I'm actually...kinda dead-tired. I've been having a rough week and have been getting something like 4 hours of sleep instead of double that. I don't THINK I'm making any typos, but I think that my word choice right now feels different than normal. Obviously, it's a bit more rambly than normal and that's something that I think I could control if I wanted to but am choosing not to 'cause I feel like not, but I think there's more to it than that. It feels like the word structure in my head right now is different, and I'm using a more altered vocabulary from my norm. And while Mastin sentences do occasionally accidentally become non-sequiturs thanks to shifting mid-sentence from one train to another, I feel like this right now is actually on a whole 'nother level. And is directly tied to that tiredness, and not something that I can correct easily since it's my very mind thinking.)
Soyeah, tl;dr version is that I'm kinda thinking I'm probably not in the mental condition to be playing the analysis game. I can maybe play the reactionary "tell me what you think of this" game (even that's sorta iffy) right now, but until I can keep focus and clarity (at least, more than what I have right now), probs-not going to be the Mastin you know. :/
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Howsabout that I'm goin' back to thinking town now not because of this post but 'cause I just thought about it more and that's what came to mind and that I generally don't as scum tend to waver on my reads this much least of all with you?In post 1229, AngryPidgeon wrote:Mastin, Im having a hard time figuring out how to fake my scummeta in a way that WON'T get me lynched that will ALSO give me a clue as to whether or not you are scum based on your response, please advise.
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Just checked activity overview.
Only person who could possibly be my recruiter and not be scum is Quill, since everyone else has shown up since.
Only person who could possibly be my recruiter and not be scum is Quill, since everyone else has shown up since.
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Yes. Thus why I said I'm likely in a scum religion.In post 1233, Jargonaut wrote:Mastin, didn't you/AbelCain recruit Quill? You can't be in the same church, can you?
Meh, Klaz can be scum with levitown.In post 1264, Klazam wrote:Im still not moving my vote anywhere except bacde or AP. Whoever has more votes has my votes, and that's the way it will be today. I'm not interested in lynching anyone else.
Not lynching Bacde.
Would prefer not lynching AP until I actually lock down a read.
(It's back to leaning scum btw. 1286 pinged, and the list in 1287 and whole handling doesn't seem like town-AP.)
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Axxle
^Solidly convinced is town.
Jargonaut
^Ehhhhhh...we'll see, but pushing does have a townish vibe.
Quill
^Screw it, townreading off of literally nothing just 'cause I feel like it.
leviathan93
^Town.
Lord God
^Eh. Guess town?
BipolarChemist
^Dunno, need another look.
Klazam
^Probs-scum.
Bacde
^Not def-town, but highly probs-town.
AngryPidgeon
^Kinda scummish.
(Also, in hindsight, AP saying that messiah had a dayvig and nightkilling him is
implosion
^Still thinking scum, but not strongly. Which is kinda pathetic given he's my strongest.
I'm still fairly busy, and these reads still utterly and entirely SUCK, but at least I vaguely sorta have three players in my scum list? (Klaz, implosion, AP.)
^Solidly convinced is town.
Jargonaut
^Ehhhhhh...we'll see, but pushing does have a townish vibe.
Quill
^Screw it, townreading off of literally nothing just 'cause I feel like it.
leviathan93
^Town.
Lord God
^Eh. Guess town?
BipolarChemist
^Dunno, need another look.
Klazam
^Probs-scum.
Bacde
^Not def-town, but highly probs-town.
AngryPidgeon
^Kinda scummish.
(Also, in hindsight, AP saying that messiah had a dayvig and nightkilling him is
totally
AP's style of wifom as scum, but eh.)implosion
^Still thinking scum, but not strongly. Which is kinda pathetic given he's my strongest.
I'm still fairly busy, and these reads still utterly and entirely SUCK, but at least I vaguely sorta have three players in my scum list? (Klaz, implosion, AP.)
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This post is also not the kind of thing that I'm used to seeing from a town-you. It feels off.In post 1289, AngryPidgeon wrote:Ive given up on trying to direct anything Today, I see a few wagons out there and Im ready to compromise at this point. There is pretty much nothing that should be bothering you about 1286. If you have specific issues with my placement of people in lists, I'd love to hear it.
But to answer about 1286...you say nothing, I say
everything
. Mentioning the deadline like that, the way you offer to compromise, the targets you select and then having Bacde over implosion, the way you ask about Quill. Just...it's not quite the kind of instant, "I'm sorry you drew scum, AP" post in that it doesn't hold that level of immediate strength of a scumread, but, well...it pinged me hardcore.Implosion dropped out of your would-lynch list, I've slacked off so am not exactly a hard lynch, BPC isn't a hard lynch either, Bacde being Bacde I'm sure he has made many enemies, and if not you pushing him would be a vanity wagon which you just said you were going to avoid, and all of this avoiding Klazam who actually does look scum to me in my posting, in favor of an explicit policy-lynch on Bacde who you know to be a competent town player and who is correct in that you really should be having him as--if not confirmed-town--at least far-more-likely-to-be-town-than-scum.
If I was actually convinced you were scum, I'd be voting you.
But I'm deeply, deeply worried about it, because I don't see the thought process at all. It doesn't make sense.
...Rather, it does...but only if I'm thinking from a scum-AP point of view making reads. That kind of posting is what I'd strongly expect a scum-AP adapting to the circumstances to have made. I'm not seeing the train of thought, the jumps, that'd make it town.
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Because it's totally what I see as being your style. It can get people thinking, "Oh, AP as scum didn't need to claim that, so he's probably town", and that's the natural thought to it. Because what point would it serve scum to claim it? As I said, it's your style of wifom. Like, you do similar things as scum all the time and it just...fits what you'd do. It's not something huge-raised-red-flag, but it is a bit of a small-handheld-pink-flag-poking-up on you.In post 1291, AngryPidgeon wrote:In what way??? It quite literally is not. It would serve no purpose. I certainly wouldn't need to justify killing Messiah. When Im scum I sometimes try to use NK spec to push my reads, but I haven't even done that.In post 1290, mastin2 wrote:(Also, in hindsight, AP saying that messiah had a dayvig and nightkilling him is totally AP's style of wifom as scum, but eh.)
Plus you and I both know that you not doing something before as scum is vastly different from you NEVER doing something as scum.
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+Saying you're not interested in leading the town and then...trying to lead the town. (Not exactly scummy, but still eyebrow-raising.)In post 1294, mastin2 wrote:Implosion dropped out of your would-lynch list, I've slacked off so am not exactly a hard lynch, BPC isn't a hard lynch either, Bacde being Bacde I'm sure he has made many enemies, and if not you pushing him would be a vanity wagon which you just said you were going to avoid, and all of this avoiding Klazam who actually does look scum to me in my posting, in favor of an explicit policy-lynch on Bacde who you know to be a competent town player and who is correct in that you really should be having him as--if not confirmed-town--at least far-more-likely-to-be-town-than-scum.
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In post 1293, AngryPidgeon wrote:Leviathan, are you interested in lynching implosion at all?
Cause IDK if our Bacde wagon is going anywhere.
(But posting like this does make me think town.In post 1296, AngryPidgeon wrote:I lost some interest in lynching implosion due to paranoia about you being scum. Of my {implosion, Quill, Jargonaut} group I prefer implosion over the others. I actually wouldnt feel too bad about saying I feel like {Klaz / BPC / Bacde / mastin2 / implosion} prob has 3 scum in it. I've been EXTREMELY waffly this game in a way I just couldn't/wouldn't fake as scum.
Going for ez lynches is not really indicative of my alignment and we could argue about who is or isn't technically an easy lynch right now. Mentioning the deadline is something I always do, see street racers? I got frustrated when Nati wagon busted up and just started blatantly sheeping the largest wagon.
I don't know what turned you around on Klazam but I'm glad you did because that guy has been getting way too much towncred for the whole shenanigans with BPC.
VOTE: implosion
Just for you.
Granted, specifically targeted to me and it's not like you don't know how to get into my head and make me doubt myself meaning that you can easily pull this off as scum, butyeah, doubts like this are why AP's
not
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Nope! If there's a way to figure out recruits, though, figuring out who recruited me will net ya a scumbag. Also, if there's anything resembling a namecop/rolecop, figuring out any vaguely-south-american religion players will give you a high-probability of catching that scumbag.In post 1299, AngryPidgeon wrote:Did we ever figure out who recruited you last night? Did you have any other choices?
But no, I did not get any other choices for a recruit. Just a join, or don't-join; my slot chose join.
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(Well, unless it's the Quill slot. If I'm in Quill's religion, then the question becomes why Quill wasn't recruited to mine. Mod error, yes. But what wouldaIn post 1300, mastin2 wrote:If there's a way to figure out recruits, though, figuring out who recruited me will net ya a scumbag.
caused
the mod error*?)*Actually...I think I know. Dumping in PT.
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Wait, nevermind, had it backwards. (Or if I did have something, I've thought the train that had it. :/)
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*points to current vote*In post 1305, AngryPidgeon wrote:We could quicklynch implosion.
(Or Klaz.)
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It was Kagami. Who I first learned of being in the game from...our PT. Meaning that I'm not going to comment much on my religion until after I see who Kagami actuallyIn post 1310, Lord God wrote:-mastin-you have an empty PT and you don't know who recruited you? And why is klazm scummy? Finally, did you catch up/read the thread?
is
and what Kagami's posted.Klaz is scummy 'cause gut. No catchup yet. Getting to that. Later.
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(Reading.In post 1312, Untrod Tripod wrote:Kagami replaces Quill.
It's pro.
>_>
<_<)
^In post 1317, AngryPidgeon wrote:Ya that slot is town.
(Also, I'm kinda agreeing with Kagami's assessment of the slot Kagami
did
recruit, since, well...it makes sense.)Actually.In post 1318, Kagami wrote:Ok, one thing is amiss; I'm not un-recruitable as far as I can tell, but UT has not told me anything suggesting that mastin attempted to recruit me last night.
About that.
I'm now as close to 100% as I can be sure that your recruit is town.
Dump in PT coming.
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Gotta ask UT 'bout something.
'Cause I think that we've got the answer for everything, and it creates a townbloc of awesomesauce.
DO NOT LYNCH BEFORE WE CONFIRM.
'Cause I think that we've got the answer for everything, and it creates a townbloc of awesomesauce.
DO NOT LYNCH BEFORE WE CONFIRM.
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Wait, no, nevermind, duh, I've got the answer already.
Yeah, it holds.
AP is 100% town.
I don't use that percentage lightly. Not even on him.
Kagami is town.
I am town.
We POE from there, but that's our absolute center town core.
Yeah, it holds.
AP is 100% town.
I don't use that percentage lightly. Not even on him.
Kagami is town.
I am town.
We POE from there, but that's our absolute center town core.
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Add levitown, too.
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I'm kinda seriously considering the merits of a massclaim, too, since I think we can POE the scum hardcore here.
I know BPC has claimed, but I want to know that full claim. (No idea on alignment 'til then.)
I know Axxle has claimed a delayer. (His handling makes him highly-probable town.)
I have a fair idea what levi's role is. (Which would make him town.)
Obviously, AP's claimed and I know Kagami more or less.
Any other claims on the table already?
I know BPC has claimed, but I want to know that full claim. (No idea on alignment 'til then.)
I know Axxle has claimed a delayer. (His handling makes him highly-probable town.)
I have a fair idea what levi's role is. (Which would make him town.)
Obviously, AP's claimed and I know Kagami more or less.
Any other claims on the table already?
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Also, for the record:
recruiting either Kagami, myself, or AP will be taken as a scumclaim
. (We're forming a plan. Give us a bit.)My academy.
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Jargonaut
Lord God
BipolarChemist
Klazam
Bacde
implosion
^This is the absolute-largest-circle of names we can lynch; we can probably narrow it down even further. (I'm
I have scumreads on Klazam and implosion. (Mostly gut, but eh, good enough for now.) If we're running with this, that'd make either Bacde or BPC scum, thus why it's kinda important to have this stuff sorted out exactly.
Lord God
BipolarChemist
Klazam
Bacde
implosion
^This is the absolute-largest-circle of names we can lynch; we can probably narrow it down even further. (I'm
kinda
guessing Jargonaut's town, but I have nothing backing this other than gut off of their posting. Lord God is similar, but weaker.)I have scumreads on Klazam and implosion. (Mostly gut, but eh, good enough for now.) If we're running with this, that'd make either Bacde or BPC scum, thus why it's kinda important to have this stuff sorted out exactly.
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(Skimming from D2.)In post 691, BipolarChemist wrote:So you're not gonna question my neckbeard comment?
VOTE: Klazam.
Bacde's VERY strongly my choice for third scum, with implosion as second.
We can make this happen.
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Oh.
VOTE: implosion.
VOTE: implosion.
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(Bacde's still scum, though. We'll sort out the rest as we go along.)
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*cough*In post 1357, AngryPidgeon wrote:FTR.
I'm town.
Beyond obviously town: Kagami.
Still incredibly likely town, don't really lynch this ever: Leviathan.
VOTE: Bacde.
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Aside from Kagami's play?In post 1359, Jargonaut wrote:mastin, what makes you certain Kagami is town? (Emphasis on certain)
...Stuff.
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Well, given that I was roleblocked for surez (there's literally no other explanation for Quill being sucked out of our church then back in after mod realized he made an error; what kind of error do you think could cause my action to initially succeed but later fail? Scum roleblocking you-->UT processed it as such, but also processed your busdrive as it has priority-->UT made an oversight and forgot that the roleblock should block me-->my action initially succeeded, thus Quill was whisked into mine while I was whisked into Quill's-->UT realizes the mod error-->Quill/Kagami returns because my action should have failed*), and Kagami recruited you and got me...yeah.In post 1367, AngryPidgeon wrote:I busdrove myelf with Abelcain (mastin) last night. I have no indication of whether or not it was successful.
*Quite explicitly, the mod said Quill was in the PT D1, left to some other PT, and would be returning because leaving was a mod error.
Kagami can confirm, because this wasn't a PM; it's posted in our freakin' PT. It's literally the only explanation I can see making even a remote amount of sense.
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So there's 11 alive right now, right?In post 1379, Klazam wrote:From my persecptive- scum's in this pool:
Jargonaut
Bipolar chemist
Bacde
implosion
And your pool was
Kagami town
Ap town
Mastin town
Levithan town
Lord god town
(Yourself town)
Right?
I don't know who, but that adds up to ten, not eleven; you're missing a player.
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Derp.In post 1380, Klazam wrote:I missed axxle on my potentialscum list.but i dont think hes scum anyway
Reading is pro.
Aside from POE, your interactions with AP during D2 were not those of the town-Bacde I remember butting heads with AP. They were made with what I saw to be a clear scum agenda, ESPECIALLY given the nature of AP's night actions last night. Like, I can't remember them off the top of my head right now (because right now, my head's still spinning from something not making sense yet me having absolutely no clue where the dissonance is), but it was there. It wasn't rock-solid by itself, but given the POE, it was enough.In post 1383, Bacde wrote:Mastin you've never seen my scumplay, how exactly am I already confirmed scum to you?
Which would be true if I was dodgy with my reasoning at all, but I'm not. Like, I'm laying things out about as clearly as I can.Any time someone is as dodgy about their reasoning as last in is being right now, they are scum.
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Townread amongst unconfirmed players?In post 1393, Bacde wrote:Seriously, axxle is mastin2's top town read? No offense axxle, but that read is laughable
Yes.
Top townread?
No, that'd be AP and Kagami.
Because the way Axxle handled his claim looked highly town. He's actually in a similar situation to me, actually. He knows what he submitted. He goes in with assumptions about what he submitted. He builds his play off of it. Something comes up that doesn't make sense. Mod acknowledges moderator error. Confusion ensues.
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Well, Bacde's reaction looked like scum to me, but I'm not scum.In post 1403, AngryPidgeon wrote:Ugh I really could see a mastin/Bacde team though.
I'm apparently about to be mislynched for something that I have no answer for, which makes absolutely no sense because something is going on that I don't understand yet which points to me being scum in spite of the fact that I am quite clearly not, but Bacde can be.
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(In other news, implosion's still scum.)In post 1405, implosion wrote:I might be coming around on Klazam-scum. I don't think I'm going to come around on BPC-scum. I still am putting in way less effort into this game than I should. I think all of mastin/AP/Kagami are town. I also think leviathan is town. I'd say those are my strongest townreads given recent events, with mastin being the most up for debate I guess.
If people were to vote Klaz I'd join it. I don't feel as strongly on Bacde town as before, the claim feels meh. But I don't think I want to wagon him.
VOTE: implosion.
Kagami told me I'm being mislynched, so presumably there's no implosion wagon going on.
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And I still think it's implosion-Bacde with some other member.In post 1406, Bacde wrote:Implosion, what do you think of the lordgod-scum?
Answer soon, because this will help me determine if you are scum with mastin or not
I'm thinking the same thing but I don't know. Like.In post 1409, AngryPidgeon wrote:I may have just confirmation biased hard, but I think one of the bottom 4 people there used a RB/(or is just scum). Its become fairly clear that actions and recruits are not useable on the same night. Im guessing factional actions may be different.In post 1390, Kagami wrote:BPC sends a message to AP (mastin) ??
bacde recruits MC ??
klaz recruits BPC ??
mastin recruits Kagami ??
Kagami's making a case against me that if it weren't my slot would make me think I'm scum.
Seriously. Know what my responses to Kagami are?
Quite literally, "...But I'm telling the truth?"
A little bit of flailing trying to figure out how the heck it could happen the way it did.
But mostly, "But I'm town..."
There has to be AN answer that makes sense of this all.
But I don't have it.
(The sad thing is, if I were actually scum, I probably would.)
I don't even know all the claims, I don't know how the actions work, I don't know what's going on. But something like this has to be true.
Thing is...Bacde claims to have recruited Messiah last night.If we assume Bacde is truthful about who recruited him (seems likely) then most people are cleared.
The nightkill.
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Well, my role is a reflexive jailkeeper that jailkeeps any successful action on me for the rest of the night, with what in practice is a non-consecutive commuter, plus my recruit. So not impossible. I've got two active abilities plus the passive.In post 1412, Klazam wrote:Now, a reflexive role cop that sends messages, and role blocks? i find that a bit too long to think plausible. If you're working off the theory that somebody's action who can't be confirmed, is scum, I'd say that falls with either Mastin or bacde.
At the very least, I believe the role to be true. Doesn't mean BPC's town, but it means he's not lying about that much.
Maybe? If I had the full list of actions, I might have so much of a sliver of a theory for what the heck's happening.In post 1413, Klazam wrote:So its either bacde who role blocked AP (mastin) or Mastin who role blocked himself by accident. hm
I don't.
(Just for future reference, btw.
As scum, I make sure the FIRST thing I do is familiarize myself with the claims people have made...
...AND I'm EXTREMELY hesitant to make my own.
This game, I've got not a freakin' clue what's going on...and basically fullclaimed immediately. Halfclaimed in-thread, and fullclaimed to Kagami once Kagami entered and was made obvtown.)
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IIn post 1416, Klazam wrote:Mastin2: Why do you place yourself in this TownBloc? What confirms you to everyone else?
thought
that my recruitment of Kagami, but then having Kagami come back to the QT after UT announced a mod error did.But apparently not.
Now the better question would be, "Why aren't you confscum?"
To which I have no answer at all, other than "because I'm not?". :/
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For the record, it really should be the other way around, even right now. I fullclaimed in the PT not for towncred, but because I saw Kagami was town, and thought that we could form a gamebreaking strategy from it. (Which, mind you, is again not a trait my scum self normally announces. I'm sure it exists somewhere in my game history as scum, but when have you seen me-as-scum say that we've got the game broken wide open and with roles and whatnot can solve it today? I'm sure there's at least one, in fact nearly positive of it, but typically it's my town self 'cause, y'know. It's the stuff that a town me thinks about.)In post 1418, Kagami wrote:Mastin has full-claimed a role in our PT. Beyond that, nothing has happened privately that I consider to be beyond Mastin's abilities to fake as scum, but I feel like his slot is town.
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For the record, that works as a scum action, too, because if AP's townread and targeted with a town action, it goes onto a scummier town player; if the scummier player's targeted with a town action, it goes onto AP the townier player, which depending on the exact nature of busdriving can be massively advantageous to scum.In post 1427, Kagami wrote:It's as you say, having an action doesn't mean someone is town, but how they use it is. AP's bus-drive, for example, was a very reasonable town usage (swapping himself with a scumread).
But I happen to (mostly) agree that he's town anyway; his posting is showing twinges of potential scum-him but seems like his town mindset more than it doesn't. (Granted, this read is...really not solidified because it's being continuously thrown through the loop and I haven't gotten the chance to settle down and actually think.)
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(For the record, the more inconsistent my thoughts are, the more likely it is that I'm town, since as scum, I have GODLY good situational awareness which is a concept critically tied to thought consistency, whereas when town...well. Not so much. )In post 1435, Kagami wrote:There's some train-of-thought inconsistency in the PT that seems funny to me, but I don't see any obvious scum-motivation in it.
Partially true, which is why I'm planning to paraphrase everything that's not tied to Kagami's role. ('Cause putting Kagami's role in public would be anti-town.)In post 1436, Bacde wrote:Also, the more you keep out of the public thread, the more antitown you are being imho.
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Not exactly.In post 1438, AngryPidgeon wrote:BPC messaged me something like "I have your kid, hes on my boat" and it got busdriven to mastin who claimed getting the message.
It said a young boy was kidnapped from me.
It didn't say "I have your son on my boat" or something like that.
But that's probably a paraphrase meaning it probably went through.
^That, pretty much, for why the Axxle top-townread.In post 1443, AngryPidgeon wrote:His roleclaim looks ridiculously town.
(Now I suppose it'd be AP since AP's apparently not conftown, but again, not locked in.)
For the record, AP, if you're on my wagon I'm calling you scum for this, since it should be pretty damn obvious that I have been absurdly confused about how the night actions have played out.In post 1444, AngryPidgeon wrote:Mostly I think if he were scum he wouldn't have ended up so absurdly confused about what night actions he is allowed to take.
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I mean, literally, the best answer I have is that people are assuming something about the mechanics as absolute truth that is somehow not true, but I wouldn't know how or what.In post 1447, Kagami wrote:( and mastin :< )
What originally happened, thus the mod error I mentioned.In post 1453, Klazam wrote:from what i was able to clarify from the mod- If Kagami and Mastin(abel)'s recruits both went through on each other, they would have just swapped religions.
Where the issue exists, since I don't knowso clearly something happened to mastin's recruit.
what
.(Could be Klaz is scum as a result.)In post 1454, Kagami wrote:He wasn't as forthright when I asked him, interesting.In post 1453, Klazam wrote:from what i was able to clarify from the mod- If Kagami and Mastin(abel)'s recruits both went through on each other, they would have just swapped religions. so clearly something happened to mast in's recruit.
Not really? I've put basically everything in the PT out here the moment it became relevant to do so. There were a few things that I wanted to keep close to my chest, which I put in the PT first, but once there was reason to do so, I posted them in-thread.In post 1457, AngryPidgeon wrote:Kagami I think mastin might be whispering sweet nothings in your ear.
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And as I said to Kagami, this one IS on me.In post 1472, Kagami wrote:My understanding of mastin's claim is that she was recruited by jargo (she got a bunch of questions and chose to join the religion) and then she joined my religion, since I recruited her (aztec religion is mine). This isn't consistent with bacde's experience of getting to choose among multiple suitors as stated in the rules.
Like, I can't explain what happened to my recruit.
I can, however, say I derped, reading is key, in that I thought that Abelcain both answered the questions AND joined Kagami, but when I went back to check the messages, it was apparently just Abelcain joining Kagami.
(Which sucks. Because there's absolutely no reason to believe it isn't scum backtracking when it was, really, just exactly that, me making a misread of the PMs. And that's not even going into the role evidence which points to me. )
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Given the lack of me posting in here where the confusion comes in, not scum from this.
If it's still around after I come in, scum.
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I checked the PT first. Answered there first. And as I said, I'll be paraphrasing everything from the PT into here.In post 1476, AngryPidgeon wrote:Hey mastin, no pulling Kag's strings from the PT. Big bird is vetoing all your PT shenanigans.
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QTs.In post 1478, AngryPidgeon wrote:In post 1020, mastin2 wrote:I said it before in Mindreader, I'll say it again here.
There's no player who has a greater mastery of QT manipulation than me.
Not PTs.
I explicitly said that I'm a master of QTs, and pointed out that I am EXPLICITLY not a master of PTs. 'Cause PTs? Require me to be online. QTs? Don't, meaning I can dump thoughts in them at literally any time.
(Oh and btw, not really that relevant, but I imagine there's at least some suspicion of me being scum flailing or scum given up or whatnot but again a little reminder that scuMastin fights to the bitter end unless it's in her agenda not to.)
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I think so, yeah.In post 1481, AngryPidgeon wrote:And you both received a recruit request from Jargonaut and a message from BPC?
Bacde's case, yeah.In post 1490, Axxle wrote:bacde, is your case against mastin OMGUS? Because that's all I'm seeing.
Kagami's case, not so much. :/
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Because Kagami was the one asking...in there.In post 1496, AngryPidgeon wrote:Appealing specifically to Kagami in their little fun house rather than coming forward in the thread with things.
And I was behind in the thread.
But not in the PT.
Because the PT was faster to read and right there.
All nice 'n' good n' all, 'cept we don't have that many mislynches; I'm the last one you can afford. You need to get another town name in there.In post 1497, AngryPidgeon wrote:Meh, I'm still sticking with my guns that if we lynch through Bacde, mastin, implosion, Klazam, BPC we will hit 3 scum.
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Look, it works like this.In post 1500, Axxle wrote:Is that a thing that can exist?In post 1499, Kagami wrote:reflexive jailkeeper
I target you, but get jailkept, so I never targeted you?
If I'm successfully targeted with a non-killing ability.
The player is jailkept for the remainder of that phase.
That's what it says.
Emphasis was placed on the successful aspect of it.
But that's quite literally what it says. A passive ability, triggered upon any successful targeting of me with a non-killing ability.
That's what it says.
I don't know how it works.
Presumably NAR has something to do with it.
But it works somehow.
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Yeah...which is why your claim raised my eyebrows, since I had my own and thought, "Hmm..."In post 1503, AngryPidgeon wrote:Its not extremely different from ascetic.
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Problem is that I'm (again) divided between two scumreads.In post 1503, AngryPidgeon wrote:I support mastin, Bacde, implosion pretty much.
Quite strong scumreads, honestly.
As in, basically, I can see anyone being the third but I can't imagine a scumteam without those two in it.
And instead of lynching them, because I don't have focus, you're going to end up mislynching me because scum? Have it; I? Don't.
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(Oh, and on that note:
I really was tempted to type a Bacde vote, but I really.
Really think implosion is scum.
Basically, implosion's the only one who I haven't seen be open about actions,
And Bacde's actions reek like hell.)
I really was tempted to type a Bacde vote, but I really.
Really think implosion is scum.
Basically, implosion's the only one who I haven't seen be open about actions,
And Bacde's actions reek like hell.)
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I get why you wouldn't be, considering that I don't really know what I'm selling, either. I'm giving mystery meat to everyone. I'm explaining things the best I can. But I don't know what those things mean, 'specially since what I thought they meant...apparently can't work.In post 1509, AngryPidgeon wrote:Mastin, you might actually be town this game, but I'm really not buying a single thing you are selling.
Yeah?In post 1512, AngryPidgeon wrote:You say that and you are simultaneously playing the "Im so confused! What's going on? I don't really have the picture!" card.
Because at the time? I thought I knew what was going on--not well enough to have ironed out the plan. Because I haven't seen everything, still don't know what everyone's claimed, don't have any of that info memorized and just have a general idea. Because...That's not my strength as a player. But to begin forming one, sure. Yes. I thought we could break the game open. And I was going through the process of figuring out not only how to do so, but to do so soundingly.
Then Kagami drops a bombshell on me and says, "What you thought happened literally couldn't have happened."
Meaning that everything I was working for fell apart instantly, and I'm left...with a "WFT is going on" like nothing else.
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*ahem*In post 1517, AngryPidgeon wrote:Lol no. You don't get to piggyback off my Axxle town read.
I HAD THAT READ FIRST.
*points to iso*
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No, I'm beginning to hardcore bus them both.In post 1524, AngryPidgeon wrote:Are you done distancing from Bacde and implosion?
Butyeah. I'm running short on time at the moment--I'll be back in a bit to paraphrase thingies.
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*Town name out of there.In post 1526, Klazam wrote:?In post 1525, mastin2 wrote: You need to get another town name in there.
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Can't be true, because if that were true, there'd literally be no such thing as unsuccessfully targeting me.In post 1534, Kagami wrote:My interpretation is that targeting as a thing may occur before action resolution. i.e. I target mastin with a doctor action, then whenever the action sequence reaches Doctor or Protect [not sure which in UT's chain] that action will resolve if nothing interferes, but if mastin is as claimed, then after I've successfully targeted her, she will target me with a jailkeeping action, which will resolve before my doctoring and thus prevent mastin from receiving protection.
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Yeah, it has to have a protection element to it.In post 1536, Kagami wrote:I find it very hard to believe that "reflexive jailkeeper that doesn't work with nightkills" is identical to "reflexive roleblocker that doesn't work with nightkills" which is identical to "ascetic," and that UT didn't just call the role "ascetic"
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Which for all I know is how the role works. I can't tell you what it does exactly. I can't tell you why UT designed it that way. All I can tell you is what is, quite explicitly, right there.In post 1539, Kagami wrote:You're right, it's the reverse, that if targeting happens during resolution, it's a reflexive doctor.
VOTE: AngryPidgeon.In post 1544, AngryPidgeon wrote:Don't think about the setup spec too hard. Mastin is just not playing like shes town right now.
This is my townplay.
THROUGH AND THROUGH.
Townplay.
You
know
it is, AP.I can't fake confusion.
I can't fake most of what I've done this game.
Like, when I'm scum.
I'll go, "hmm. That doesn't make sense. Maybe it was this." Like, flat, dead delivery of things I either know to be lies or know to be truth. And typically when saying the truth, having confidence behind it. That it happened that way, not this way. I'll have a precise narrative in mind.
Key word,
precise
. I'll have a locked down idea. The idea doesn't work, I've meticulously got a backup plan. And a plan for that backup plan not panning out. And for that one. I run through my list, and I do so robotically, pretty much. There's a lack of emotions behind it. There's a lack of actual effort in my actions, as the most effort I have to do as scum is to spin a plausible narrative and then, bam, I've left it at that.But you KNOW that I've not done that.
You KNOW that's not what I've done, not even remotely, this game.
YOU KNOW.
BETTER THAN DAMN FREAKIN ANYBODY ELSE.
There is
zero
ZERO.
None.
Like. As scum. I will cheekily say, "Yeah, there's that aspect of my scumgame in here, but I swear I'm town!" (Kinda my signature style as scum by this point, though I do a less-flat and more-genuine version as town which is akin to, "I realized that you've seen that aspect as coming from me-as-scum, but...it's not". The literal arguments the same, the tonality behind them nothing alike.)
But there is none.
The closest.
LITERALLY FREAKIN CLOSEST.
THING THAT COMES.
TO MY SCUMPLAY.
IS THIS POST RIGHT HERE VOTING YOU IN AN OMGUS.
Because. It doesn't exist. There's been no masterful plan.
There's been no order.
No cohesion.
No plotting.
No manipulating.
No misdirection.
No tone-death flat posting.
Nothing.
No. aspect.
Whatsoever.
Of my scumgame.
And you're claiming.
That I'm not playing my towngame at all.
Bullshit.
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And as promised, the paraphrase:
(UT's post creation.)
Me: "Eh? Nobody home?"
Mod: "Church had only one member. A member returning thanks to me. (Oops.)"
Me: ...But they didn't post at all?
...And
Mod: Whenever he shows up.
*a day later*
Me: He's still not here...
Me: Very bad place to dump notes (note that this is because I was thinking I was recruited by scum who simply didn't use it at the time), but I don't exactly have anywhere better. But quite note, my comment about implosion's not me being a cheeky scumbag but me commenting on my thoughts: WKing scum. I'll post that in-thread as soon as I get the chance.
*a day later*
Me: Bumping this to the top of the PT list JUST in case whoever it was didn't see it.
Kagami: Hi! UT has info for me.
...Why're you here? Oh, and please don't say who we are, it might help scum.
Kagami: Ah, I understand. AP's likely town.
Me: ...Well, this is awkward. (Given how much I had revealed about the church in-thread before Kagami came, and how I was thinking it was a scum PT and now the one player who could have been town came in.)
Anyway, AP's town--switched our slots, a town usage of his power, the scum probably blocked him, busdrive resolved first I think, thus my recruit got blocked, and you recruited me.
Kagami: Sounds 'bout right.
Then I asked UT a few questions. Kagami and I can both recruit, but you can't target a member of your church for a recruit. (Which is what would be required to recruit AP, which was my plan at the time.)
And I took my first stab at fullclaiming:
I'm not sure whether it was misreading or mistyping, but I put passive non-consecutive commuter (it's active, not passive), with the ability not yet used to my knowledge, and with a passive of JKing any successfully targeting me with a non-killing ability for the remainder of the "night" phase. (It's actually phase. Meaning if targeted during the day, I...apparently JK them for the rest of the day, I guess?) A bit of a clustered claim, obviously.
Kagami thought my theory had merit, pointing out that kill+block = destroys largest religion.
I then realized the clutter of my claim and expanded on it a bit more, pointing out that it's not a non-consecutive commuter, technically, in that I get to choose even-night or odd-night, in that the first night I use it is the choice I make (N1 = odds, N2 = evens, and so on). I clarified that the passive-JK I felt separate from it. I lay out my basic plan to Kagami, of recruiting AP and maybe protecting one or two or all of us. I had the generalities, but none of the specifics, and knowing Kagami specializes in that sort of thing, asked for Kagami to help with it.
In-thread, Kagami had asked why I had Levi as town, and in-PT, I explained the reason why being levi's role, which I described what I'm fairly certain it is.
Kagami says that my plan to protect won't work, goes on a bit about what turned out to be flavor, and says that Klazam's likely town, off of recruit choice and religion not being likely for scum.
Which is the first page of the PT.
(UT's post creation.)
Me: "Eh? Nobody home?"
Mod: "Church had only one member. A member returning thanks to me. (Oops.)"
Me: ...But they didn't post at all?
...And
when
will they be back?Mod: Whenever he shows up.
*a day later*
Me: He's still not here...
Me: Very bad place to dump notes (note that this is because I was thinking I was recruited by scum who simply didn't use it at the time), but I don't exactly have anywhere better. But quite note, my comment about implosion's not me being a cheeky scumbag but me commenting on my thoughts: WKing scum. I'll post that in-thread as soon as I get the chance.
*a day later*
Me: Bumping this to the top of the PT list JUST in case whoever it was didn't see it.
Kagami: Hi! UT has info for me.
...Why're you here? Oh, and please don't say who we are, it might help scum.
Kagami: Ah, I understand. AP's likely town.
Me: ...Well, this is awkward. (Given how much I had revealed about the church in-thread before Kagami came, and how I was thinking it was a scum PT and now the one player who could have been town came in.)
Anyway, AP's town--switched our slots, a town usage of his power, the scum probably blocked him, busdrive resolved first I think, thus my recruit got blocked, and you recruited me.
Kagami: Sounds 'bout right.
Then I asked UT a few questions. Kagami and I can both recruit, but you can't target a member of your church for a recruit. (Which is what would be required to recruit AP, which was my plan at the time.)
And I took my first stab at fullclaiming:
I'm not sure whether it was misreading or mistyping, but I put passive non-consecutive commuter (it's active, not passive), with the ability not yet used to my knowledge, and with a passive of JKing any successfully targeting me with a non-killing ability for the remainder of the "night" phase. (It's actually phase. Meaning if targeted during the day, I...apparently JK them for the rest of the day, I guess?) A bit of a clustered claim, obviously.
Kagami thought my theory had merit, pointing out that kill+block = destroys largest religion.
I then realized the clutter of my claim and expanded on it a bit more, pointing out that it's not a non-consecutive commuter, technically, in that I get to choose even-night or odd-night, in that the first night I use it is the choice I make (N1 = odds, N2 = evens, and so on). I clarified that the passive-JK I felt separate from it. I lay out my basic plan to Kagami, of recruiting AP and maybe protecting one or two or all of us. I had the generalities, but none of the specifics, and knowing Kagami specializes in that sort of thing, asked for Kagami to help with it.
In-thread, Kagami had asked why I had Levi as town, and in-PT, I explained the reason why being levi's role, which I described what I'm fairly certain it is.
Kagami says that my plan to protect won't work, goes on a bit about what turned out to be flavor, and says that Klazam's likely town, off of recruit choice and religion not being likely for scum.
Which is the first page of the PT.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
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WHICH.In post 1547, AngryPidgeon wrote:I never said I was sure you were scum. I said there are 3 scum in a pool of 5 and nothing you've posted is town enough to get you into my town group.
IS.
THE.
SAME.
FREAKIN.
THING.
AS.
SCUMREADING.
ME.
A town-AP might have a not-obvtown-Mastin (or, heck, even an obvtown-but-could-be-scumobvtowning-Mastin) in the lower towns. Not fully locked down on a read of me, yet. Not overly concerned, though, about my alignment, trusting me just enough for me to be given a townread pass. ESPECIALLY when I'm town.
Yet here, I'm in the opposite: carelessly discarded into the scum pile. In spite of being obvtown.
MORE THAN THAT.
More than that.
Your explanation here is also bullshit, because YOU.
FLAT-OUT.
OFFERED.
TO.
PUT.
ME.
AT.
L. FREAKIN. ONE.
That's not only placing me in the potential scum candidates...
THAT'S. ACTIVELY. TRYING. TO. LYNCH. ME. AS. A. SCUMREAD.
No second-guessing?
No looking at my actions?
No thinking about the motive behind them?
The mindset driving them?
More than that...not seeing the tone in them?
No.
A town-AP against a scuMastin is able to instantly pick up on these things...and then pushes them through.
A scum-AP pushing a town Mastin is going to always play it by ear...but in a case like this one, is going to force a waffle and lack commitment, lack conviction, because he's well aware that if he pushes me hardcore, it's going to be a scumclaim from him. If he chooses to scumread me, he needs to have it build over time.
Which is.
Exactly.
What.
You.
Are.
Doing.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
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Umm...that's not what I received.In post 1548, BipolarChemist wrote:I have to choose one player per night who gets a message saying that a boy was stolen from them and placed on a boat harem!
The mod said that a young boy was stolen from me last night...but there's nothing further about the role other than that.
My academy.
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"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
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Page two begins (more or less) with me mentioning that Klaz could be the (what turned out to be a joke) element of Kagami's concerns, since I did some quick googling combined with my skimming.
There is a bit about Kagami saying things about our abilities, but I say I'm not sure how we could pull it off.
Kagami asks about the compulsiveness of recruits, and I say that I don't think it was. (This was probably a misunderstanding of UT's PMs. I think that I was given a choice between Kagami's and Jargonauts by the sound of it, and that I chose Kagami's. But UT's wording in the PM wasn't exactly forceful. He said to answer questions, or if Abelcain would prefer not to, asked about Abelcain joining Kagami's church. I'm thinking this was now flat-out an explicit, "Yo. Answer these questions or join Kagami's church; you must do one." But the wording certainly didn't suggest as much to me at the time.)
Kagami asks about LG/Axxle/Bacde or implosion/Axxle/Bacde,
And I say that LG's a gut-townread, that the way Axxle handled his action looked town, but because of the weak gut read, was willing to hear about Kagami's take on them.
Kagami states the Bacde read is strongest.
I agree. (And then, in-thread, immediately vote Bacde.)
Kagami points out that we unfortunately can't use my passive, nor can AP. He suggests us both recruiting, describes his abilities some more, and explains that the LG doubt is because of LG being the largest religion and fears that it'd make a good reason to kill MC who was the then-current largest religion.
Kagami then asks about my abilities in more detail. And about the circumstances behind my recruit.
And I go back to check my PM again to get things, answering that my commute is manually activated, thus would not interfere with a JK if not used, but if used, would because hide is pretty dang high on action resolution. I give my best description of the ability, that it's basically all of even/odd/NC yet none of them and explain it by talking about nights, in that I can activate it on N1 and then it's locked into odds for N3, 5, 7, and so on and not non-consecutive. I confirm that my JK is a passive, describing the reflexive JK for successful actions. (I also point out that UT's NAR list is quite different from the wiki, which has hide as second.) I speculate (because I really don't know!) on where the JK is on NAR.
Kagami asks about me receiving a message from BPC. Says that my slot's in danger, and says my roleclaim cannot be accurate. He asks why I was able to be recruited by him, too.
And then the string of me posting comes in.
It's essentially the same stuff over and over.
That I can only tell him what the mod gave me. And that anything beyond that is just speculation.
So I as close as I can without getting modkilled gave a full description, succinctly, of my role PM's description.
And then, checking, I have a minor "crud, I'm screwed" moment when I look at my PMs, expecting to see Abelcain having both answered the questions AND having recruited (what I thought he did)...and find that he simply said he'd join. (Yes, I fully realize it looks bad. No, I have no clue how I thought he said that. I just did.)
Kagami continues asking why they succeed.
I say that I haven't checked the thread yet, but will as soon as fully answering Kagami's questions. I say that I believe the message I got was at the beginning of the day phase, but UT was incredibly ambiguous about it. I flat-out say, "But I am town?", because everything I've said is true, so if there's anything wrong in the actions, it's not on my end. And to answer the recruit question, I say that it's because recruits are higher than the reflexive-JK on the action resolution list.
And then Kagami drops the bombshell of, "So why didn't I get recruited by you?"
Which goes into the third page a bit, but I then (still not understanding what Kagami's saying) said that I don't have the answers, and my best guess was lower-abilities work but don't get JKed, and higher abilities work AND get JKed, but that while making sense, even then, I don't know where my ability falls on the action resolution anyway, and I say that my only answer to the recruit on Kagami failing is a roleblock, as MY action failing, not someone else's. (As I said, I didn't understand what Kagami was saying.) I point out the mod explicitly confirmed as much, essentially, laying out that Quill was briefly recruited, but came back, meaning the action succeeded originally, but failed later because it was originally not supposed to work thanks to mod error.
Kagami says BPC is miscellaneous, and says that I could not have been roleblocked from the recruitment, because recruits are above roleblock. Kagami gives the answer that it'd mean I tried to use two actions last night (but I didn't), and UT initially had one succeed and then switched it to the other. (Though...I suppose there is a flaw in that theory. Axxle had this happen; UT ruled in favor of the recruit. If I took two actions, why would UT rule in favor of the action rather than the recruit?) He further said my BPC result was impossible to get.
And again, I say I didn't. That I recruited. That that's what's there. And that I don't have any answers beyond that. In response to Kagami's theory about how my reflexive-JK works, I say that I don't think Kagami's version is how it'd work. The reflexive-JK only kicks in if the action is successful, and for the rest of the phase. Implying vulnerability before then. I explain the self-feeding loop Kagami seemed to be expecting:
Action takes effect successfully, triggers my reflexive-JK, causes player to be JKed, which causes the action to not succeed. I say NAR's there to fix that, making an action either succeed and protect them or succeed and not protect them, but either way succeed. (I THINK anyway. Because there's no way for it to fail given the reflexive nature of my action, from my understanding.)
Kagami says that I have no proof, and no explanation for my claimed action. He says that my action would be a doc, not a JK.
And in response, I say that the mod specifically said Kagami was sent away briefly before coming back, thus there was proof, but continue saying I don't have the answers for why things went the way they did. The best I come up with is using another action, and even then I say so with confusion and lack of confidence.
A talk which continues.
Kagami: The facts say you're lying.
Me: But I'm not! I've looked. Checked. Doubly, triply, just to make sure that I'm not missing anything this time. In every possible place. I recruited. I didn't commute. He said so. He said that these other things then happened to me. That's what I have.
Kagami: Not relevant, given that you're either scum lying or town telling the truth, and...you're giving nothing to believe the latter.
Me: Because I don't have anything TO give; I don't know
Kagami: I was told who my slot targeted, so I see no reason he wouldn't tell me if I was targeted.
Me: No harm in asking anyway?
Kagami: He told me not to.
And then more bits and pieces about much the same regarding technicalities of what the mod probably would do.
There is a bit about Kagami saying things about our abilities, but I say I'm not sure how we could pull it off.
Kagami asks about the compulsiveness of recruits, and I say that I don't think it was. (This was probably a misunderstanding of UT's PMs. I think that I was given a choice between Kagami's and Jargonauts by the sound of it, and that I chose Kagami's. But UT's wording in the PM wasn't exactly forceful. He said to answer questions, or if Abelcain would prefer not to, asked about Abelcain joining Kagami's church. I'm thinking this was now flat-out an explicit, "Yo. Answer these questions or join Kagami's church; you must do one." But the wording certainly didn't suggest as much to me at the time.)
Kagami asks about LG/Axxle/Bacde or implosion/Axxle/Bacde,
And I say that LG's a gut-townread, that the way Axxle handled his action looked town, but because of the weak gut read, was willing to hear about Kagami's take on them.
Kagami states the Bacde read is strongest.
I agree. (And then, in-thread, immediately vote Bacde.)
Kagami points out that we unfortunately can't use my passive, nor can AP. He suggests us both recruiting, describes his abilities some more, and explains that the LG doubt is because of LG being the largest religion and fears that it'd make a good reason to kill MC who was the then-current largest religion.
Kagami then asks about my abilities in more detail. And about the circumstances behind my recruit.
And I go back to check my PM again to get things, answering that my commute is manually activated, thus would not interfere with a JK if not used, but if used, would because hide is pretty dang high on action resolution. I give my best description of the ability, that it's basically all of even/odd/NC yet none of them and explain it by talking about nights, in that I can activate it on N1 and then it's locked into odds for N3, 5, 7, and so on and not non-consecutive. I confirm that my JK is a passive, describing the reflexive JK for successful actions. (I also point out that UT's NAR list is quite different from the wiki, which has hide as second.) I speculate (because I really don't know!) on where the JK is on NAR.
Kagami asks about me receiving a message from BPC. Says that my slot's in danger, and says my roleclaim cannot be accurate. He asks why I was able to be recruited by him, too.
And then the string of me posting comes in.
It's essentially the same stuff over and over.
That I can only tell him what the mod gave me. And that anything beyond that is just speculation.
So I as close as I can without getting modkilled gave a full description, succinctly, of my role PM's description.
And then, checking, I have a minor "crud, I'm screwed" moment when I look at my PMs, expecting to see Abelcain having both answered the questions AND having recruited (what I thought he did)...and find that he simply said he'd join. (Yes, I fully realize it looks bad. No, I have no clue how I thought he said that. I just did.)
Kagami continues asking why they succeed.
I say that I haven't checked the thread yet, but will as soon as fully answering Kagami's questions. I say that I believe the message I got was at the beginning of the day phase, but UT was incredibly ambiguous about it. I flat-out say, "But I am town?", because everything I've said is true, so if there's anything wrong in the actions, it's not on my end. And to answer the recruit question, I say that it's because recruits are higher than the reflexive-JK on the action resolution list.
And then Kagami drops the bombshell of, "So why didn't I get recruited by you?"
Which goes into the third page a bit, but I then (still not understanding what Kagami's saying) said that I don't have the answers, and my best guess was lower-abilities work but don't get JKed, and higher abilities work AND get JKed, but that while making sense, even then, I don't know where my ability falls on the action resolution anyway, and I say that my only answer to the recruit on Kagami failing is a roleblock, as MY action failing, not someone else's. (As I said, I didn't understand what Kagami was saying.) I point out the mod explicitly confirmed as much, essentially, laying out that Quill was briefly recruited, but came back, meaning the action succeeded originally, but failed later because it was originally not supposed to work thanks to mod error.
Kagami says BPC is miscellaneous, and says that I could not have been roleblocked from the recruitment, because recruits are above roleblock. Kagami gives the answer that it'd mean I tried to use two actions last night (but I didn't), and UT initially had one succeed and then switched it to the other. (Though...I suppose there is a flaw in that theory. Axxle had this happen; UT ruled in favor of the recruit. If I took two actions, why would UT rule in favor of the action rather than the recruit?) He further said my BPC result was impossible to get.
And again, I say I didn't. That I recruited. That that's what's there. And that I don't have any answers beyond that. In response to Kagami's theory about how my reflexive-JK works, I say that I don't think Kagami's version is how it'd work. The reflexive-JK only kicks in if the action is successful, and for the rest of the phase. Implying vulnerability before then. I explain the self-feeding loop Kagami seemed to be expecting:
Action takes effect successfully, triggers my reflexive-JK, causes player to be JKed, which causes the action to not succeed. I say NAR's there to fix that, making an action either succeed and protect them or succeed and not protect them, but either way succeed. (I THINK anyway. Because there's no way for it to fail given the reflexive nature of my action, from my understanding.)
Kagami says that I have no proof, and no explanation for my claimed action. He says that my action would be a doc, not a JK.
And in response, I say that the mod specifically said Kagami was sent away briefly before coming back, thus there was proof, but continue saying I don't have the answers for why things went the way they did. The best I come up with is using another action, and even then I say so with confusion and lack of confidence.
A talk which continues.
Kagami: The facts say you're lying.
Me: But I'm not! I've looked. Checked. Doubly, triply, just to make sure that I'm not missing anything this time. In every possible place. I recruited. I didn't commute. He said so. He said that these other things then happened to me. That's what I have.
Kagami: Not relevant, given that you're either scum lying or town telling the truth, and...you're giving nothing to believe the latter.
Me: Because I don't have anything TO give; I don't know
why
things went the way they did; they just DID because I AM town. Your argument's solid. But it's wrong. Somehow. I don't know how. I don't have an answer. I mean, maybe Quill got more than you did?Kagami: I was told who my slot targeted, so I see no reason he wouldn't tell me if I was targeted.
Me: No harm in asking anyway?
Kagami: He told me not to.
And then more bits and pieces about much the same regarding technicalities of what the mod probably would do.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
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(Which, again. is, uh. Kinda a towntell for me.In post 1554, Kagami wrote:mastin doesn't seem to have realized that this explanation doesn't fit the NAR of this game until I point it out deep in page 2.
A scuMastin isn't immune to making errors about how actions resolve.
But I am very.
VERY.
Good at it as scum.
A LOT of my scum wins are by making plans and executing them solidly...including claims involved.
For instance, you can see it in Attack on Titan. I pointed out things about Pasch's claim. I knew what was involved...and when I didn't, I asked the mod. The scum QT shows me meticulously planning every aspect of that, and how to use it and point things in a direction that'd keep Pasch alive for as long as possible.)
Honestly, my vote on AP is more to make a statement than anything, because you're actually right; it's implosion > Bacde > AP right now.In post 1555, Bacde wrote:$50 says mastin2 still has me as a stronger scumread than angrypidgon.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
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You wouldIn post 1557, Klazam wrote:Mastin's constant selfmeta proves that his meta is worthless because he would know exactly how to manipulate it.
think
so, but no.These are deep personality traits ingrained inside of me. A scuMastin is flat. A scuMastin has little passion, able to fake it short-term but has it fall apart. A scuMastin always has a plan, and always has things under control...because
that's how a scum player gains domination over a town
....Also, a scum Mastin has the support of her scumbuddies. Assuming the ability to talk to them (and I see no reason they wouldn't), then scuMastin quickly establishes her dominance over her scumbuddies, getting them to be coherent and forming a plan that involves town death and lots of it. And look at this playerlist.
Is there anyone in here who wouldn't respect me as a scumbuddy?
Pretty much no.
Is there anyone, therefore, who wouldn't listen to my minimal/no bussing mantra I'd enforce?
Also no.
So is there any reason why I'd have this much support for a lynch on me?
Also also no.
"Uh...mod-confirmed scum?"
Then if I'm mod-confirmed scum, why haven't I been sewing seeds of discord that'd leave finding my scumbuddies impossible, a-la L4D? Why am I actively here, trying to figure things out, giving reasons, logic, and in general having a strong presence, rather than posting fluff?
Knowing the meta doesn't mean you can change the meta.
In large part because there's little need to. My scum meta? Is DEADLY effective. It's FRIGHTENINGLY good. I play an airtight scum game, with no holes. Yeah, there's tells for me...but those tells are things that, in spite of being noticed, don't get me actually lynched. Most of the players who scumread me successfully when I'm scum can't do better than "gut" for actual reasons; any more specific reasons than that are generally either long-winded or involve falsehoods easily shot down.
That all aside, though. This is mostly me rambling.
The only self-meta that I really do is either rambling like above (that is, not really meant to convince anyone, so much as it is to demonstrate why it's stupid to think my scumgame is this bad )...or me using it offensively, pointing out my meta, a player intimately familiar with said meta, and why them not seeing it makes them more likely scum. I.e., AP.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
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(Anyway, gotta go!
Be back later.)
Be back later.)
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
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Except that scuMastin explicitly picks up on details like that.In post 1561, Kagami wrote:I can imagine various scenarios in which scum!mastin thought she could get away with this; the simplest being that she planned to claim that she was roleblocked, not realizing the game had an unusual NAR (notice thatno oneappears to have noticed this).
I do NOT.
NOT.
Fakeclaim as scum.
Out of the blue.
Least of all.
LEAST of all.
Something that isn't explicitly from my role PM.
Yes. Explicitly. Because it's the truth. And anyone.In post 1566, Bacde wrote:Also shes saying that there is no way she is scum because if she was scum we wouldnt be on to her. Lol, is that really your defense?
ANYONE.
Who has played against a scuMastin.
In the last two years.
KNOWS it.
Except it's true. As scum, you would never know I was scum like this.In post 1563, Jargonaut wrote:I'm really not buying the whole, "If I were scum I'd be playing better" argument, and she looks really flail-y citing it so much.
You catch a scuMastin? It's from the things I said.
It's from reading play.
It's from looking at actions.
And realizing that they don't make sense coming from a town mindset.
Combined with a flat tone.
Every scum lynch of mine.
EVERY.
Scum lynch.
Of mine.
Has been off of that.
Attack on Titan. 172. L4D. (Though that one was by my design.) These are NOT games where I made a mistake. These are NOT games where I showed off self-meta. (Okay, so I did some in L4D, but mostly just in address to those already using meta. "This is a weird mastin" "Yes, it is, but it's intentional".) These are games where I was playing the long con. These are games.
Where I quite explicitly.
Had.
A.
Damn.
Plan.
Not some vague plan.
Not some plan that was filled with holes.
A goddamn specific plan. Tight-nit. Ironed shut. Rock-solid, airtight, which could go off almost without a hitch. In spite of the lynch on me. (172 didn't get the plan executed, though it existed.)
And that planning process also contributed to the wins in Paranoia, in Anything Goes, and basically every single scum game I've recently played. I laid out the path to victory...and won once said path was realized.
What would have gone wrong here to result in this?
I might not possess omnipotence as scum. But to get caught on something like that?
No.
Damn right it's flailing. But it could not be any more town-motivated flailing.
And you are all going to look so incredibly stupid when I flip town, 'cause you'll realize that the case against me was entirely based off of things that I have no answer for. Not just no answer, no possible answer for.
In my position, you'd be doing the same thing. You'd be flailing. Because you wouldn't know. Because you'd be confused. Because you wouldn't have an answer, wouldn't have a clue what was going on.
Tell me. Flat-out tell me after I flip town. That in my shoes, you'd play differently. I dare you. DARE. you. To say you wouldn't be struggling. Trying. To figure it out. And be frustrated. That everyone is calling you scum. And you know that if not for your role PM, you'd be agreeing with them.
This is why I am incredibly cautious of scumhunting by roles and not by play. Because this is my townplay. Through-and-through. You can look at any scumgame of mine recently and tell it's not this. You can look at any towngame of mine recently and tell it's PRECISELY this. (Especially egregious is AP, who saw this similar flailing in his micro...thus why I think he's scum.) Off of play. I look town because I am town. Off of play. There is essentially no case on me at all. (Aside from flailing which...is explicitly not because of my play, and is entirely tied to the confusion.) Off of my damned play. If people put aside the roles. Put aside the flailing from dealing with them. And looked at my damn play. They'd see it as town. Heck, they had been! Kagami did, too. Because my play has been town.
Implosion's hasn't been.
Bacde's I'm strongly thinking hasn't been.
And now, I'm thinking AP's not, either.
But because you're so freaking determined to lynch me, I won't have the time to nail down that AP read for sure.
Hey.In post 1567, AngryPidgeon wrote:I'm going to default to assuming that you are allowing yourself to be wagon ed and tthese walls are your way of gracefully bowing out as maf.
AP.
If you're town.
(I'm thinking not.)
Guess what.
You just lost your position in the 'can read me' club.
Not just for misreading me when this is my townplay through-and-through.
But for thinking that this.
Is something.
I would ever.
EVER.
Do.
As mafia.
Because if you seriously think that I would do these things as mafia?
You know nothing about me
(Fortunately, I am of the opinion that you're not town and thus haven't lost your touch. Because it's explicitly NOT on my end this game. There is literally no way I could be more town by play alone than I have been this game.)
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
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mastin2
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Since people aren't keen on reading walls?
-I will be laughing at you from the grave. Then crying my heart out. Then laughing again. Then crying.
-Implosion is, simply, scum. Do not let him get away. He's the player who has been least-accountable for his actions...AND who has been the scummiest by play.
-Bacde is a very strong scum candidate. His actions look strongly scum-motivated and his pushes have been, as Kagami has said, basically all on town; his mindset has seemed incredibly scum.
-You bastards aren't giving me the chance to get AP up to a 95% read, but right now, he's a 75% scumread for the reasons that I've mentioned, essentially boiling down to a SEVERE dissonance between what a town-AP does and what AP has done this game.
-I will be laughing at you from the grave. Then crying my heart out. Then laughing again. Then crying.
-Implosion is, simply, scum. Do not let him get away. He's the player who has been least-accountable for his actions...AND who has been the scummiest by play.
-Bacde is a very strong scum candidate. His actions look strongly scum-motivated and his pushes have been, as Kagami has said, basically all on town; his mindset has seemed incredibly scum.
-You bastards aren't giving me the chance to get AP up to a 95% read, but right now, he's a 75% scumread for the reasons that I've mentioned, essentially boiling down to a SEVERE dissonance between what a town-AP does and what AP has done this game.
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Editing is for scum.In post 1571, Axxle wrote:You're cool mastin, but you really could use an editor.
(No, seriously.
Read my towngames.
Read my scumgames.
Scumgames might have the same amount of words, but they are more refined because they're more heavily edited.)
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And that is why I'm scumreading you.In post 1573, AngryPidgeon wrote:But ya I'm really not interested in blatant Ate and omgus atm.
Because if you were town.
I would most certainly expect you to be.
You KNOW what I say about you is true.
You KNOW what I've said about me is true.
Yet you're pushing it aside.
And then there's this.Feel free to convince me Bacde is scum though.
Again.
Town-AP.
Doesn't need convincing.
Town-AP.
Doesn't need to be shown Bacde is scum.
Town-AP.
Doesn't need to have Mastin convince him that Bacde's scum, when AP is in general willing to work with me and has explicitly been seeing Bade as scum anyway.
(75? Try 85%.)
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For those not following along on the why-AP-is-scum thought...
You really have to understand meta. (GASP. SHOCK. HORROR. *shudder!* Yes, I know. But there's absolutely no other way to say it, because that's what the history IS.)
AP and I know each other better than anyone else.
We're solidly frenemies. He said it well when he said I was the Professor X to his Magneto: very old friends who have a rich history and hold deep respect for one another, yet are occasionally allies and occasionally enemies. You can see this mechanic in a recent Open Hard Boiled game that ended, where said description was even given. Compare how he treated me there to how he is treating me here. There, he was actively engaging me and trying to sort me and while not absolutely sure I was town, was willing to trust that I was. Here, he is essentially ignoring me, and when not...brushing my points aside.
He's not bothering to try and figure out my alignment; he's placed me into the scum pile and has left me there without a second thought. More than that? He's done so without any level of conviction. I'm there. Just there. I'm not a scumread for dead tone. I'm not a scumread for having a scum mindset. I'm in the scum pile...because I'm in the scum pile. I'm there for the sake of being there. And that? That is NOT something AP does to me as town.
I really wish I had the ability to succinctly describe our history together. The above is verbose and still doesn't truly cover the heart of the matter. Yet it's what I am feeling right now, that he is scum. Because there is no effort. I've put in plenty with him. I've tried working with him, interacting with him a plenty. He hasn't really reciprocated. No trying.
You really have to understand meta. (GASP. SHOCK. HORROR. *shudder!* Yes, I know. But there's absolutely no other way to say it, because that's what the history IS.)
AP and I know each other better than anyone else.
We're solidly frenemies. He said it well when he said I was the Professor X to his Magneto: very old friends who have a rich history and hold deep respect for one another, yet are occasionally allies and occasionally enemies. You can see this mechanic in a recent Open Hard Boiled game that ended, where said description was even given. Compare how he treated me there to how he is treating me here. There, he was actively engaging me and trying to sort me and while not absolutely sure I was town, was willing to trust that I was. Here, he is essentially ignoring me, and when not...brushing my points aside.
He's not bothering to try and figure out my alignment; he's placed me into the scum pile and has left me there without a second thought. More than that? He's done so without any level of conviction. I'm there. Just there. I'm not a scumread for dead tone. I'm not a scumread for having a scum mindset. I'm in the scum pile...because I'm in the scum pile. I'm there for the sake of being there. And that? That is NOT something AP does to me as town.
I really wish I had the ability to succinctly describe our history together. The above is verbose and still doesn't truly cover the heart of the matter. Yet it's what I am feeling right now, that he is scum. Because there is no effort. I've put in plenty with him. I've tried working with him, interacting with him a plenty. He hasn't really reciprocated. No trying.
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And I really wish I had the time to lay out the AP scumread on other aspects.
It's not like my read here is entirely reliant on that one thing. (Although that is the main thing.)
He's far from a sure-fire 100% scumread.
But among other things, I don't think his usage of his ability is as town as he claims it is, the kill on Messiah is totally his style as scum, and a lot of his thought processes. (There's a decent amount of it in my iso.)
Implosion's scum because of basically no good content. At all. Even remotely. Combined with a complete and utter total lack of openness with actions. Like, I claimed my stuff unprompted and with zero hesitation. Kagami kinda did to me, too, actually. Most players have been open about what they've done and why...yet implosion...hasn't been.
Bacde's a cross between AP and implosion.
I'm not really sure how I can describe my reads there any better. I guess I can go over the other reads and how I feel about them overall, but even then, I'm not sure I have much to say given that, well, I haven't read most of the thread and I
It's not like my read here is entirely reliant on that one thing. (Although that is the main thing.)
He's far from a sure-fire 100% scumread.
But among other things, I don't think his usage of his ability is as town as he claims it is, the kill on Messiah is totally his style as scum, and a lot of his thought processes. (There's a decent amount of it in my iso.)
Implosion's scum because of basically no good content. At all. Even remotely. Combined with a complete and utter total lack of openness with actions. Like, I claimed my stuff unprompted and with zero hesitation. Kagami kinda did to me, too, actually. Most players have been open about what they've done and why...yet implosion...hasn't been.
Bacde's a cross between AP and implosion.
I'm not really sure how I can describe my reads there any better. I guess I can go over the other reads and how I feel about them overall, but even then, I'm not sure I have much to say given that, well, I haven't read most of the thread and I
do
have conflicting opinions on players.My academy.
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That's a yes.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5942401#p5942401]post 1577[/url], AngryPidgeon wrote:Mastin are you here. I just got on my PC.
VOTE: implosion.
That's me opening the floor for you to talk.
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So talk. Read.
If you're not scum, then I would love for ideas on who the third would be. I can hear arguments for most players.
If you're not scum, then I would love for ideas on who the third would be. I can hear arguments for most players.
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Lord God
BipolarChemist
Klazam
^Players outside AP I'd think about for third.
(Axxle's
Note that not all "think for third outside AP" are equal, in that LG's on the townier end and I've got nothing on BPC and Klazam.
BipolarChemist
Klazam
^Players outside AP I'd think about for third.
(Axxle's
theoretically
possible, but not particularly probable. Jargonaut I feel similarly about.)Note that not all "think for third outside AP" are equal, in that LG's on the townier end and I've got nothing on BPC and Klazam.
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Sorry. Didn't even really mean it as an accusation. Meant it more as a "I don't think he should be getting as much towncred for this as he is", which I suppose could be called an accusation but isn't really.In post 1583, AngryPidgeon wrote:I NEVER CLAIMED IT WAS TOWNIE OF ME. NOT EVEN ONCE.
If you were scumreading me?In post 1582, AngryPidgeon wrote:Tell me that isn't a blatantly AP thing to do, especially in the face of a Day that simply won't end and has been see-saw. L4D is still fresh in my head thanks.
Yes.
You explicitly said you were not.
And yet you offered to put me at L-1.
You also side-stepped the majority of the points I made in that post to focus on only the one section.
On all other reads, yes.No, I do what I please.In post 1550, mastin2 wrote:because he's well aware that if he pushes me hardcore, it's going to be a scumclaim from him.
ALL other reads.
Yes.
You'll do as I please.
On me?
No.
You've never.
NEVER.
As scum.
Immediately pushed me hardcore.
In GoC, you took time to develop your 'scumread' on me.
Same thing here. Scumreading me on a whim would get you lynched if I came in before the job was finished, and might get you lynched anyway if there's a town player familiar with our history together.
AND WHAT.In GoC mafia I just threw you under the bus because scumreads on you were popular. Yes I consider that a bus despite being on opposite teams in that game. Because you were SO TOWN that I was effectively bussing town by remotely trying to claim I was being townie.
DO YOU THINK.
IS GOING ON.
IN THIS GAME.
Scumreads on me are so freakin' popular that there isn't a damn player in the game who isn't as far as I know.
(RED FREAKIN FLAG THERE BY ITSELF AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT IS ONE.)
But in spite of those scumreads.
I could literally NOT be more town than I am this game.
Axxle'd be my guess, and I think I see what you'd see if so but I'm still thinking town.On that note. Someone outside my scumlist has REALLY got me concerned over a mere 2 posts. Care to take a stab?
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I didn't fool you at all; you had me as scum the entire time and I nightkilled you immediately. You INSTANTLY knew something was off about me that game. Because you, as town, instantly can tell that I'm scum.In post 1591, AngryPidgeon wrote:Oh pardon me, its like you didn't very recently roll me in L4D mafia and then gloat about it endgame and in the dead QT constantly.
When I'm town and you are, it's sometimes instant, sometimes not, but NEVER do you place me into the scum bin like that so recklessly.
Yeah, but I get to tell others how you interact with ME as town and as scum, an interaction that DOESN'T change (...much) across games. (Plus there are generalities about your play, trends you show that are things that while can be changed...don't get changed.)You don't get to tell me how I act as town - you know full well that I change up my play all the time.
No, because I actually got invested in this game...because I thought I had the potential to break the game wide open. You can basically see a flip being switched between pre-Kagami and post-Kagami coming into the game, and it's for basically that reason. I've been busy with life, and other things have been (or should have been) higher priorities than this game, and I mostly let them be. Kagami changed that by giving me some proper motivation and kicking me into high-gear, because I actually had a partner, there talking to me, that I knew wasWhich, idk, maybe I was expecting something from you along the lines of the Fall even though we both know that wound up poorly.
perfect
for what I was beginning to be thinking about. I was barely even following along. Just popping in randomly. Saying stuff. Then leaving. Not putting effort in. Then I got something motivating me. And instantly, I switched into me-mode. As scum, I paint narratives to obtain mislynches. Never to save myself, because I never need it to save myself. You're damn right I'm spinning narratives. Because I have no clue what the real story is. As scum, I would. As scum, I would know enough to paint the picture I want to be seen. Here, I quite clearly...haven't.Narrative spinning.
Like hell this is a scumtell. It's explicitly the opposite; a scuMastin is more reserved and lurky overall than a town-Mastin (at least in games right now), because a scuMastin is more distant, calculating, precise, and when not challenged a bit bored, compared to a town Mastin who is invested, has nothing, and is trying.Flooding.
YOU.Buddying up to people privately (Kagami).
JUST SAW.
ME BUDDY.
BRIAN SKIES.
IN YOUR GAME.
What are you doing?
Scumhunting.
Because I don't have anything else I can do.
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Certainly possible? I've actually been fairly ambivalent on the slot a fair number of times. I mean, I ultimately concluded that their posting looked like it came from a town mindset, but that's not exactly a rock-solid thought.In post 1592, AngryPidgeon wrote:[Jargonaut low-flying scum].
Discuss? Her sudden vote on you didn't really make me feel great when I actually thought about it.
I started putting in notable effort the moment Kagami came in, sure, yeah. But before then, I most certainly was still showing town all the same.In post 1593, AngryPidgeon wrote:You haven't really put forth notable effort to making me think you are town until like the least 8 hours.
Yes, and you of all people should know why (in spite of it going against what is generally considered common sense) ignoring that type of evidence in favor of the read can sometimes produce the correct result.You YOURSELF said that Kagami's case on you makes complete sense.
I can expect you to read me off of reading me, though. The case might be reasonable, and I have no defense against it, but it's ultimately somehow wrong. And if there's ANY player here who should be able to read me correctly in spite of the case, itBut you can't really expect me to buy that the case on you isn't reasonable when you ar reprtedly telling Kagami that your only defense is ... "but I really am town?"
should
be a town-you.(Random note, but again thinking very strongly Axxle's town, here.
And AP's not even at 60%; saying I've even got him as scum right now would be a bit of an exaggeration.)
Yeah, and fighting with you would be doing the exact opposite of that? It'd ensure protection from any protective PRs, and make you basically guaranteed-not-scum in the eyes of the town.In post 1594, AngryPidgeon wrote:Oh and I'm sure you, as scum, would be doing your BEST to make sure I go down in flames this game mastin.
Damn straight I'd take you down, but you know as well as I do that even as scum, I wouldn't be able to actually get a lynch on you. There's a reason you have a 100% nightkill rate in any game where I've controlled the nightkill with you alive during the night. (Hey, I actively fought against your lynch in Mindreader Mafia! Not
my
Not really? Town-AP's always had a town-me as on the positive side of null, aside from maybe one or two games. (The Fall.) Scum-AP often has me on the negative side of null, slowly built up into a scumread. Tell me I'm wrong here about that.In fact, you arguing like this that me thinking you could be scum is a scumclaim is.... ya really? You are kidding right?
(Kinda feel like I'm arguing with town anyway right now in spite of this.)
Surprisingly, yes. It does make sense.I'll be honest, Bacde's recent posts make me think hes trying to rub some of his scumminess off on you...if that makes any sense.
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Basically this? Pretty much. The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know. I can be talking sense while also waving my hand and saying that these things are even if I don't know how.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5942479#p5942479]post 1596[/url], Axxle wrote:I thought she was talking sense but it just feels like hand waving.
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Couple of notes,
-I have to admit, I'm still kinda hoping UT comes along and waves a magical moderator wand which goes, "whoops!" and gives us the answer.
-I kinda think that it'd be most effective for me to do a most-town to least-town chart for general gauge of townness or scumness in players.
-But I want to go to sleep right now, so it might have to wait until tomorrow.
-I have to admit, I'm still kinda hoping UT comes along and waves a magical moderator wand which goes, "whoops!" and gives us the answer.
-I kinda think that it'd be most effective for me to do a most-town to least-town chart for general gauge of townness or scumness in players.
-But I want to go to sleep right now, so it might have to wait until tomorrow.
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Jargo's posting was from scum.
Implosion's still scum.
Bacde I don't think had a town outburst.
Explaining if I can.
Implosion's still scum.
Bacde I don't think had a town outburst.
Explaining if I can.
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This.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5943321#p5943321]post 1636[/url], Jargonaut wrote:AP, if you think the results don't matter, why even consult the mod?
This is manipulative as it gets.
I briefly have considered AP being WKing scum but am thinking town right now legitimately figuring me out.
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And AP's right.
There was a ton of pressure all in the last minute for me to be lynched.
That pressure mainly coming from Bacde, but also from as trong showing Jargonaut.
There was a ton of pressure all in the last minute for me to be lynched.
That pressure mainly coming from Bacde, but also from as trong showing Jargonaut.
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Like this. THis was really, really scum-motivated.In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5942689#p5942689]post 1600[/url], Bacde wrote:OH MY GOD
I CANT ROLL MY EYES HARDER AT THIS
IM TOWN YOU FUCKING DUMB TROGLODYTE
STOP MANIPULATING ANGRYPIDGEON AND GET LYNCHED
MASTIN2 YOU ARE SCREWED BECAUSE IF IM LYNCHED EVERYONE SEES WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP YOU ARE ANYWAY
ANGRYPIDGEON JUST VOTE IT, YOU THINK ITS SCUM ANYWAY
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So yes I think the scumteam's implosion, Jargonaut, and Bacde. (With strength of Jargo/Badce being intcerchangeable.)
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Axxle
^Porobably town. Handling of day has bneen very good and Axxle's not been posting with a scum agenda. His kjump ontome looked l,ike it came from a town player scumhunting arht er than a scum player who just got handed a free mislynch, and youn can see this in things like his unvote, analyzing, and then ohpiing gak on. It was not the greatest reason for hpping back on, but you can see the town thogut behind having done so.
Jargonaut
^In start contrast, yo u jhave Jargonaut's hop on which was L-2 and AP's pretty much right on the monehy when it comes to that hop-on; r swas ioportunistic as it comes.
Lord God
^Never got much of a read here, but off of circumstances surrounding my lynch, I'nmgoing to have to say town.
BipolarChemist
^Could be scum that was off my wagon and never got the chance to hop on, could be town with the same. If I were wrong about one of my scumreads, VPC's my best bet, but I'm thinking town at this stage.
Klazam
^Klaz's posting has been ablivalent to me, massively wavering from one to the other. Overall, given circumstances, I kean towards town, since I can see the things he's done as coming from town, even if they look scummy, since while I see the scumminess, I'm not sure it's actual sucm.
Bacde
^His posting has been bad this entire time and this is not the town Bacde that I know. It's highly manipulative and purposeful, not aiming for analyzing, not aiming for figuring things out, but for bullying people and strongarming them into a lynch.
AngryPidgeon
^Though he could be scum WKinjg in the last minute my assured wagon, take a damn look at his posting. He's not posting me as town with convcition, he's actually trying to figure it out, struggling to find an answer. That makes him far, FAR more likely to be town and near the top of my town list.
implosion
^The very fact thatr I'm the counterwagon to implosion would be enough. Add in implosion's lack of presence, lack of openness, and strong scum posting whenever around and he's scum.
^Porobably town. Handling of day has bneen very good and Axxle's not been posting with a scum agenda. His kjump ontome looked l,ike it came from a town player scumhunting arht er than a scum player who just got handed a free mislynch, and youn can see this in things like his unvote, analyzing, and then ohpiing gak on. It was not the greatest reason for hpping back on, but you can see the town thogut behind having done so.
Jargonaut
^In start contrast, yo u jhave Jargonaut's hop on which was L-2 and AP's pretty much right on the monehy when it comes to that hop-on; r swas ioportunistic as it comes.
Lord God
^Never got much of a read here, but off of circumstances surrounding my lynch, I'nmgoing to have to say town.
BipolarChemist
^Could be scum that was off my wagon and never got the chance to hop on, could be town with the same. If I were wrong about one of my scumreads, VPC's my best bet, but I'm thinking town at this stage.
Klazam
^Klaz's posting has been ablivalent to me, massively wavering from one to the other. Overall, given circumstances, I kean towards town, since I can see the things he's done as coming from town, even if they look scummy, since while I see the scumminess, I'm not sure it's actual sucm.
Bacde
^His posting has been bad this entire time and this is not the town Bacde that I know. It's highly manipulative and purposeful, not aiming for analyzing, not aiming for figuring things out, but for bullying people and strongarming them into a lynch.
AngryPidgeon
^Though he could be scum WKinjg in the last minute my assured wagon, take a damn look at his posting. He's not posting me as town with convcition, he's actually trying to figure it out, struggling to find an answer. That makes him far, FAR more likely to be town and near the top of my town list.
implosion
^The very fact thatr I'm the counterwagon to implosion would be enough. Add in implosion's lack of presence, lack of openness, and strong scum posting whenever around and he's scum.
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Agnigi
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And yes I realize I"m typin folled right now, but I've got no choice cinse I have no idea when the mod will come in som aim tiyming with my absolute fasterst WPM (which exceeds the speed of my thought),m so I think that you'll be able to figure out what I'm saying anyway, but most-town least-town,
Kagami
Levi
AP
Axxle
Klaz
LG
BPC
Jargo
Bacde
implosion.
Kagami
Levi
AP
Axxle
Klaz
LG
BPC
Jargo
Bacde
implosion.
My academy.
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And when it comes to strength, I'm a good solid 90% sure on AP being town.
A solid 80% on Axxle.
Klaz is only about 70%.
LG is 60%, but should be noted he's only this weak because I never got the chance to interact with him; he might be higher (and probably would be) if I did.
BPC I have conflicting feelings on, but overall think his posting's more likely to come from town, but this is a 55/45 splot.
I'm about 70% certain on Jaro being scum,
80% on Bacde being scum,
And 90% on implosion being scum.
I realize those numbers are suspiciously precise, but honestly, when thinking about it, they match basically my thoughts exactly.
A solid 80% on Axxle.
Klaz is only about 70%.
LG is 60%, but should be noted he's only this weak because I never got the chance to interact with him; he might be higher (and probably would be) if I did.
BPC I have conflicting feelings on, but overall think his posting's more likely to come from town, but this is a 55/45 splot.
I'm about 70% certain on Jaro being scum,
80% on Bacde being scum,
And 90% on implosion being scum.
I realize those numbers are suspiciously precise, but honestly, when thinking about it, they match basically my thoughts exactly.
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Unfortunately, I don't have the time to
(Which is, not much other than describing the problem, and not showing it that well.)
Jargo's last-minute push onto me was very, very bad, looking like intentionally trying to shake off every attempt to paint me as town, when people were struggling with how I could be. If Jargo were town, I'd expect Jargo to be among those trying to figure it out. Compare Jargo's posting to Axxle's; Axxle unvoted and tried to think it through, but ultimately concluded that I was scum for reasons aside from the role. Jargo kept the vote and pushed it through and tried to shut down those thinking about it.
show
any of this to you all, so if there's any read you doubt, there's literally nothing I can do to help prove it other than what I've done already.(Which is, not much other than describing the problem, and not showing it that well.)
Jargo's last-minute push onto me was very, very bad, looking like intentionally trying to shake off every attempt to paint me as town, when people were struggling with how I could be. If Jargo were town, I'd expect Jargo to be among those trying to figure it out. Compare Jargo's posting to Axxle's; Axxle unvoted and tried to think it through, but ultimately concluded that I was scum for reasons aside from the role. Jargo kept the vote and pushed it through and tried to shut down those thinking about it.
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Implosion's been largely lurking throughout the whole day, and you've let him get away with it. I was his counterwagon; nearly everyone with me as scum also had him as scum, yet my lynch went through and his did not. AP of all players can tell you why this holds truth, in that I never get lynched without being the counterwagon to scum, essentially, when I'm town. But more than that, there's been implosion's content.
What, exactly, has implosion provided?
...Exactly. Nothing. His posting's been weak and empty, and posting just often enough to avoid replacement. He's not so much as hinted as to what his actions have been, in stark contrast to myself who laid them all out explicitly. He's been a closed book, never allowing anyone inside. Like, iso him and look at his later posting, the posting that he's done since I've come in. Is there anything in there even remotely good? No. He's scum.
What, exactly, has implosion provided?
...Exactly. Nothing. His posting's been weak and empty, and posting just often enough to avoid replacement. He's not so much as hinted as to what his actions have been, in stark contrast to myself who laid them all out explicitly. He's been a closed book, never allowing anyone inside. Like, iso him and look at his later posting, the posting that he's done since I've come in. Is there anything in there even remotely good? No. He's scum.
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He wouldn't say this if he actually thought I was scum.In post 1600, Bacde wrote:IM TOWN YOU FUCKING DUMB TROGLODYTE
This is the manipulation HE was accusing me of doing.MASTIN2 YOU ARE SCREWED BECAUSE IF IM LYNCHED EVERYONE SEES WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP YOU ARE ANYWAY
ANGRYPIDGEON JUST VOTE IT, YOU THINK ITS SCUM ANYWAY
As AP said, Bacde's painting actions HE has done onto me.
His whole string of posting there was really bad, but I'm not sure I have the ability to explain.
This was also the same push that Jargo gave.In post 1621, Bacde wrote:Cmon angrypidgeon listen to kagami its good for you
Does anyone want to explain how the roleblock thing confirms mastin2 though? Lol its cool that shes confirmed scum i just wanna know how
Because
there was a realistic chance for an implosion lynch today
.And Bacde/Jargo crusading is what shut that down.
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In post 1629, Bacde wrote:Angrypidgeon i thought you bus drove mastin2s slot cuz you thought it was scum, wtf are you doing?
More of it.In post 1630, Bacde wrote:Also its being driven by kagami, i mean i started the wagon before it was cool but it didnt gain traction til kagami hopped on. Im pretty sure you townread kagami
Bacde drove the wagon through, without a second's worth of thought.
Kagami's tried to figure out how I'm town.
AP has.
Axxle has.
Basically, every player likely to be town has been trying.
Bacde didn't.
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Also a massive misrep, 'cause I was pushing implosion, not him, as scum.In post 1640, Bacde wrote:Dude, im town and mastin2 has me as "confirmed" scum, to the point that she is LOOKING FOR MY "PARTNERS" because she thinks its impossible for me to be town. Because it doesnt fit in her agenda not to lynch me today
And more manipulation, not to mention, misrepping. (The game he's talking about wasn't even remotely like that.)In post 1641, Bacde wrote:Yeah she just busted her ass, maybe you dont remember her stringing me along in the game you were both scum, she made wall after wall about how she didnt have time to do ISOs and find the scum, up until the deadline
Busting her ass is mastin2s favorite thing to do as scum, didnt you see her beat her chest IN THIS GAME about how "good" she is as scum
He was trying to get AP to get onto me, which would not only cause me to get lynched, but make AP look worse.
"Lynch Mastin!"
AP agrees.
"Ha! A town-you would never have lynched Mastin! AP, you so scum!"
Basically, what I think the plan was.
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For ease of reference:
Any more posting by me would mask this.
(Shame, since I also think I can show why Bacde's AtE is scum, but not well in the short timeframe.)
With as many reasons as I can crammed in to my posts on this page.In post 1659, mastin2 wrote:Most-town least-town:
Kagami
Levi
AP
Axxle
Klaz
LG
BPC
Jargo
Bacde
implosion.
Any more posting by me would mask this.
(Shame, since I also think I can show why Bacde's AtE is scum, but not well in the short timeframe.)
My academy.
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(New page for even easier reference!)In post 1674, mastin2 wrote:For ease of reference:With as many reasons as I can crammed in to my posts on this page.In post 1659, mastin2 wrote:Most-town least-town:
Kagami
Levi
AP
Axxle
Klaz
LG
BPC
Jargo
Bacde
implosion.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
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mastin2
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The mod has lousy timing. (Just checked my inbox.)
He sent a PM about how my ability works:
My reflexive ability fires simultaneously with the first ability successfully targeting me. Meaning, successfully recruiting me jailkeeps someone for the remainder of the night phase.
He sent a PM about how my ability works:
My reflexive ability fires simultaneously with the first ability successfully targeting me. Meaning, successfully recruiting me jailkeeps someone for the remainder of the night phase.
My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi
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As far as I can tell, no, Kagami was recruited THEN jailkept.In post 1678, Jargonaut wrote:P-Edit: So Kagami was jailkept and didn't recruit?
My academy.
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