Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[Kaiveran]

Hey there my pets.

I've been stalking this game for a long time now, almost since it's inception. It's definitely been quite a ride. I don't remember every detail of course, but I don't think it's necessary: I feel like I've been part of the game for a while now.

I have other business to attend to this evening but for sure tomorrow, if not tonight, I will expound on my reads and then make a decision.

[Kaiveran]

Okay, so let me basically outline my reads, in order of decreasing scumminess.

RachMarie

I'm not going to repeat the flinging of deodorizing toppings on top of the scum sundae that is Rach. From the active lurking, near-total lack of substantial engagement with any known scum, the lack of response to her wagon...this has been duly gone over already. Instead, I'm going to point out what I think is the clincher, in which any remaining thoughts one might have of her being town are sure to be crushed:

SKOT I get that you think Saki is scum what do you think about DGB?

This...

this BS right here

, is the scummiest possible address of SKOT I can fathom at this point.

Like, seriously, I can't even. What town motivation could there possibly be in asking him for a read on ONE person right now? Not even

touching

on

anything else

that's wrong with SKOT's boneheaded play recently?

I understand that browbeating and being hostile to SKOT (while perhaps not entirely unjustified) has worked about as well as abstinence-only sex education, and this is definitely a break from that behavior. But

come on

, guys. This clearly isn't an attempt to correct SKOT's play, get him to see reason, or even force him to generate more information before we go into night, all of which I think would be a

big

fucking priority

to anyone even remotely beholden to a pro-town win condition. Even if one were to assume that Rach

is

town who thought SKOT was

right

about Saki and wanted to hear more from him (and that strikes me as fundamentally bonkers), this breaks down due to the fact that she's only asking about

ONE

person, the controversial DGB.

This is in NO way town trying to open a real dialogue or getting more information out there, this is scum feeling out another mislynch her pet VI might champion to give her the win. Lynch plz?

p-edit: oh look at that, right on fucking schedule.

p-edit 2: backpedal harder

SKOT

Do I really need to write about this guy? I think everything has been covered already. He's an unreadable VI and I don't like unreadable players (or the "too scummy to be scum" WIFOM-mess) so he can play a distant second fiddle to Rach.

My main reason for thinking he might be SK is that, as pointed out on page 151, his kills make no sense coming from a sane town vig perspective (which he clearly does not have). Particularly, there is no reason for him not to have at least taken a shot at Saki if his scum read on him was really that strong. And from there he has basically plugged his ears and gone "LALALALALA" the whole rest of the game.

Hopefully Saki reflect-kills him tonight.

Jordan-Downey

Lost in the gray mist. I remember his behavior being pretty erratic throughout the game, and recent events are no exception. He goes from pointedly opposing DGB's town read of SKOT yesterday to blindly accepting his claim today. Him syncing his reads with SKOT rubs me the wrong way, but then again I know players who "trim the fat" and go along with what they feel are the good parts of whatever people say. I can't decide whether this is fence-sitting scum or cautious, out-of-the-box town that I can't see eye to eye with.

For what it's worth, he's definitely done right where Rach has done very very wrong with his address of SKOT:

So SKOT, aside from cop stated he didn't like Saki, which there is evidence that he wasn't sold himself of that read ... Could you surmise your case on him for me? Cause I don't remember one currently, just you screaming he is scum. Which hasn't been convincing.

But then that contradicts his scumread of Saki in the above linked post...

Sigh.

DGB

Ugh.

DGB, listen, I want to believe with all my heart and soul and being that you are town and that you me and Saki will prevail over the scum and frolic in the verdant fields of victory. But the shadow of the Serial Killer weighs down my mind, and keeps our promised paradise behind unbreakable glass.

Sure, scum Rach is pushing you, and I do recall you having a reputation for being an easy scapegoat for scum. But I don't get how you were towning both Saki and SKOT at the same time. I don't know, it just seems paradoxical given how much sense Saki was making and how little sense SKOT was. Perhaps the thing that bothers me the most is how you voted for Saki on page 152 after extolling your strong town read of him for a while; even if Jordan was getting swept up in illogical associative scum reads on you (because let's face it, PN was scummy as hell), I think the town move is to stay calm and convince rather than go for self-preservation.

If it weren't for these nagging fucking things, I would call you my biggest townread. Instead that has to go to..

Saki

Saki is turbotown and I am lynching that shit approximately never.

Sure, you can't deny he looked iffy early to midgame, but I have watched Saki and ever since then he's stepped up his game significantly. Even when things have gotten heated and it seemed like he could have been done for today, he has calmly and rationally dismantled the wagon on him. Plus, he's an un-CC'd PR and there is nothing setup-wise that suggests that he's fake claiming.

Like, seriously, I don't get how anybody can read this guy's posts even on the whole and then call him scum. Everything he has said makes sense, his positions have smoothly changed and have been substantiated, even his frustrated angry antics were clearly not scum-motivated. Everything in my head, heart, and gut tells me that Saki is town. If that makes me a fool, then fine. He's gone fucking ham sandwich on this game and frankly if he is scum he deserves to win this game.

[Kaiveran]

Intent to hammer Rach

Jordan, I will wait along with you for a response from SKOT if you so desire.

Anyone else want to link/quote anything that contraindicates my reads?

[Kaiveran]

Oh wait, Rach's not at L-1. Still, self-hammers are bad with hanging questions.

all of the above still applies.

[Kaiveran]

or last post of the previous page, wtfever.

[Kaiveran]

^

he said what i want to say but better
missed jordan's claim but w.e

Oh that

I did see Jordan's Polar Locker claim, it's just that I still think that can go either way. Especially since he said he "RNGd" the power all the way, when you'd think one would want to save it for their scumspects. Still, I've seen odd-town like Jordan do weirder things. You also brought up how it could possibly make it easier for town PRs to hit their mark.

and the dgb-ika claim

Do not remember this. I'll have to do some digging.

[Kaiveran]

if you claim vt here and now
I will lynch you and have no fucking problems with it

Ika is not VT

THIS IS

CONFIRMED

.

And he's town.

You can vote PN again.

masons or neighbors?

I said: CONFTOWN, that means CONFTOWN. Stop fishing.

Ika,

Town Polar Linker

, was night killed. His polarity was

Light

at the time of his death.

I'll

RB

Saki tonight.

Let's lynch Rach.

Interesting.

There must be some kind of linked role between the two. Even if it's just linking their polarities, that can do wonders for leverage, but it looks from here to be more akin to a neighborhood or masonry. In any case, I would think that if ika saw scum in DGB he would have promptly came out with it, and those two slots were alive together for a long time. Scum-DGB could have shut his machinations down at any time or at least refrained from screaming "CONFTOWN" about him, and she didn't.

So cool, I can feel more confident in that town read.

I kinda want DGB to hardclaim so I can erase all doubts, but then again that'll erase all doubts for the scum too. And we don't want that, do we?

[Kaiveran]

Oh boy, here we go again.

Oh good lord. Rach is going to be town. Kaiv already indicated that they would hammer rach.

There's nothing that suggests Rach is town to me. I strongly scumread her. Townies want to hammer people who they think are scum. It's kind of how this game works. You can tell me I'm wrong all you want, but you need evidence to convince me that I'm wrong, which

nobody

seems to have, least of all you. And if you scumread me simply for

disagreeing

with you then god help you.

People backing off on Saki's claim seriously?

If you were town and had that role, would your play not be such that at some way shape or form you would attempt to draw a kill?
We have the cop identifying several times that Saki was bad including telling Vig to shoot Saki

You ever stop to think that maybe he

was

trying to draw a kill, then stopped with the bullshit when people were piling on him for his odd behavior and telling vig's to shoot him. I know if I was in that position, I would step up my game

big time

, because, y'know, the alternative is getting

mislynched as a town PR

, or worse,

killing a fucking Town Vigilante.

I mean, seriously.

And I don't know what it's going to take to get this through your head, but

PereV getting a Town Cop role PM is NOT some magical fucking fairy dust that makes his reads more accurate or important than everyone else's. If he had a GUILTY on Saki, he would NOT have cast DOUBT on Saki being scum, he would have hard-pushed him until his ass was fucking GRASS, PERIOD. Therefore, the only logical assumption is that HE DID NOT HAVE GUILTY ON SAKI AND THAT HIS READ COULD BE WRONG, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE'S.

You had Saki at an L-1 with self vote where there would be some advatage to scum sweeping. Sure some WIFOM elements to work out but given the probable #s here, not much to lose.

Actually, if your claim is legit, scum have

everything

to lose from a quickhammer. Let's hypothetical for a moment to feel out the scum mindset:

• I am scum.
  
• This game is, in all likelihood,
  1
  :
  1
  :
  4
  . This means I am riding solo and survival is my highest priority.
  
• Someone else is run up to L-1 and I can quickhammer.
  
  • Let's say I choose to do so.
    
  • You, a town vig,
    see
    me quickhammer, and see the player I hammer flip town.
    
  • You logically conclude that I am scum for quickhammering a townie, and shoot me during the following night.
    
  • Being killed at night, I instantly lose the game.
    
  • Even if the player I hammered flips
    other scum
    , I
    still
    run the risk of this happening due to the hastiness of my hammer.
  
  
• Conclusion: I'd better not quickhammer.

But, heh, go ahead finish Rachel I guess and then I have to make a right call as vig to get off a shot and not get killed all at the same time. This decision is dooming the game, but hey, par for the course.

I'd say you doomed the game simply by virtue of surviving to this point. And of course scum is not going to kill you because you're being so useful to them.

My god, SKOT,

wake up

and smell the obvscum here. Can't you see that Rach is transparently USING you? If she was fucking Town, she would at least ask you for a more complete set of reads, instead of asking about one conveniently controversial player and then pushing you onto their wagon WITHOUT EVEN WAITING FOR A RESPONSE FROM YOU. She is grooming you to give her a free win and you are completely, infuriatingly blind to it. I can only hope you have a

SERIOUS fucking reality check

when she flips scum.

[Kaiveran]

Okay, I was going to claim intent again but fuck it

Rach's already claimed, Jordan's okay with the lynch, and SKOT is in all likelihood going to continue to be a brownian motion of particles that emits nothing but white noise.

Plus, I'm not going to see Rach wriggle out of this yet again. There is a very slim possibility that she's PN-level failtown in this game, and if we do mislynch, we've lost simply by virtue of SKOT being alive and unshaken...but, hey, it sure was worth the old college try.

VOTE: RachMarie

*holds breath*

[Kaiveran]

So cool, never need to play a game with SKOT ever again.

so everyone that calls me obvtown is scum

welp

gg guys

I'm not scum I am

VT

.

Currently waiting on a response from the mod before proceeding.

[Kaiveran]

Okay, so I tried to change to

Dark

last night, only to be informed that I am

Light

again today. This in all likelihood means that I have been polarity locked by Jordan, despite it being against all town interests to make town easier to target at this point. And Jordan never mentioned anything about his role being Compulsive, so no town points for you, mister!

Welp, I guess that's my fault, partially. I saw people evaluate what use a Polarity Locker would be to both groupscum and town...and yet nobody, not even me, brought up what a huge boon it could be to a Serial Killer. How much easier an SK's life would be, if they could lock people into polarities and effortlessly switch into the one needed to kill them at their leisure...*sigh*

And DGB's record on this day so far is asking a scummy question and then outright trolling the remaining kingmaker townies in a game she probably has miniscule chance, if any, of losing.

Well, there you have it, folks.

Jordan

is the

Polarity Locking Serial Killer

DGB

is the last

Mafia (possibly Mafia Roleblocker)

So, DGB

...By locking me, a townie, it seems like Jordan is sending a message of cooperation and that he will be playing for the draw...which I guess would be a fitting end to this. But then again, that could just be what he

wants

you to think! That might not be his only power, after all...

...and then for you, Jordan

, is the dilemma of whether DGB is lying about her RB claim or not...and how she'll utilize that RB if she has it!

So I guess that's what it all comes down to. Lies and shit and WIFOM. Have fun!

VOTE: No Lynch

[Kaiveran]

welp it's obviously Kai and Jordan for scum

I mean, c'mon, DGB is something like a mason afaik and I don't think mafia masons are a thing in bulbazak's games
esp a game not advertised as bastard

dgb what's your full role
did you actually roleblock SKOT or something because I'm pretty sure he shot me and his shot was supposed to go through

Why are you so sure that the "Polar Linking" was a Masonry? We know nothing about the role. It could have been a Neighborhood, or worse yet, nothing more than ika forcibly connecting DGB's polarity to his for leverage.

Yeah, ika didn't cry scum about her, but maybe he was fooled. It happens.

But sure, let DGB hardclaim and pump more whyfoam into the room, Jordan-scum isn't choking yet.

[Kaiveran]

UNVOTE:

[Kaiveran]

This is bullshit.

The only person in Dark polarity right now is Saki. This is

confirmed

. Otherwise we would have a neutral field polarity, and we don't. Therefore only person who SKOT should have been able to kill was Saki.

You're telling me that SKOT does

NOT

try to kill Saki after Rach is

proven town

,

RIGHT AFTER

she said that Saki was fakeclaiming? Of course he does. Of course.

Except he was roleblocked.

Just about the only way this makes sense is that SKOT was roleblocked last night. No way he would shoot anyone else after that last EOD.

p-edit:
troll
la
lol

I love how you're attacking me with "evidence" that can't possibly be verified.

I also love how you're supposedly town but are shitting on your wincon by soft-pushing the option that is

damn-near autoloss for town

rather than no-lynching and at least allowing a fighting chance.

Sorry, scum RB, not buying it.

[Kaiveran]

VOTE: No Lynch

Oh man where to even start with Jordan's posts

Fuck. And I was certain DGB was scum. Sorry SKOT, I really should have sheeped you.

In other news, did anyone catch the saki scumclaim?

"Oh yeah, fuck actual sound logic and reasoning, fuck the fact that from 3706 on we were either scumreading or dismissing SKOT only to conveniently waffle on that read in the possible MYLO last day (while still saying Saki-town, no less), let's sheep this overachiever in ignorance with the same magical Role PM fairy dust moonlogic that he was using in order to give other-scum a win (cause win conditions are overrated)"

Fucking rich.

Kaiverian is scum because e's trying to convince us that town has already lost. We haven't. We have a psuedo doc effect in the polarities, which means we have a chance.

Wow. Really? Is that seriously the best, least transparent misrep you could possibly spin? Your scumgame really crumbles under pressure.

How in the living

fuck

am I trying to convince anyone that town has lost? On the contrary, I'm trying to push a no-lynch on the premise that town

hasn't

lost and that we can maximize our chances of success by doing so.

Yes, I'm fully aware that we have a pseudo-doc effect through the polarity mechanic...and what I'm trying to get done with a no-lynch is to exploit that to the fullest. A no-lynch sends us into night with

TWO

semi-protected townies buffering us from a scum win, instead of just one...one of which can possibly

kill scum who attacks him

. It ain't fuckin' rocket surgery.

By your logic, if anyone here is scum, it's DGB, who has explicitly stated that town is fucked and we need to decide which scum wins. But of course, you don't want to draw her ire, do you? She can steal victory from you in one fell swoop tonight, no matter what happens!

Now, to saki's scumclaim:

beats me

I was dark going into last night

Saki was "dark going into last night." which is all well and good until you realize that was yesterday's polarity. Saki is claiming to have been dark yesterday. Why is this a scumclaim? Yesterday we had two light aligned flips. That means we had two kills sent by players of the dark polarity. This wouldn't be a huge issue until you realize there can only have been two players of the dark polarity yesterday. One was ika. Saki just claimed to have been the other. Thus Saki just claimed to have shot two nights ago and hit ika.

This has to be the world's most concentrated collection of bullshit.

Just about the only thing that is right about this post is the assumption that there could only be two people in Dark coming into last Day. However, given that the

first post of the goddamn game

tells us that Polarity switches take effect

before

any other Night Actions, that Dark-aligned person could have been

anyone

other than Saki. (Probably you.)

Yeah, we had two Light-aligned flips yesterday...one of which was a fucking

lynch

. Are you trying to suggest that a lynch wagon needs to have proper polarity balance to get a successful lynch? Don't make me laugh.

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

There's no way that Skot didn't shoot saki last night. That means that saki is light polarity. We don't know for sure Kai's polarity. We lynch Kai, then I lock Saki into light polarity and we both go light polarity. He won't be able to kill either of us.

Unless you're dark polarity, in which case we know every polarity right now and can lynch either of them.

First off, you know for damn sure what my fucking polarity is because you locked me into one that I otherwise wasn't going to be in. This is a fact. And of course you'd be able to lock Saki into Light, but first you need to half-assedly justify it, using the theories of somebody you just called obvscum for reasons now proven to be false.

This whole thing reeks of you going "Oh shit, voting what is obviously a town PR that is crucial to a chance of town victory is scummy as fuck, but no big, I can just backpedal and vote Kai who is an easier target, and as a bonus I can buddy more with DGB because she's pushing em for the lynch as well! I'll kill two birds with one stone!"

Except you won't, because we're not total idiots. You're really desperate and obvious scum, and it's sad. Except not really because I want you dead.

[Kaiveran]

Do I even need to respond to DGB? It should be apparent by now that pushing for anything other than a no-lynch is a scumclaim, and she's claimed it.

This post is pretty transparently trolling scum confident in their ability to secure the win today

Being in a neighborhood as she said by no means makes you conftown, if you can perform well enough to convince your partner, why terminate the relationship early? Especially if it can carry your ass to endgame on your town partner's flip, which it has.

That total flop on Saki directly above is terribad and counter-buddying Jordan to soften him up

I mean really.

p-edit: I'm arguing in order to ensure that Saki isn't convinced to throw the game by scum, obviously. Not like you would care.

[Kaiveran]

Seriously, Saki, just vote No Lynch. We're done here.

No matter what your viewpoint on this is, you have to realize that even if we lynch scum today, the other scum is likely to get a free win. If we No Lynch, however, with both scum alive having to deal with each other, and you potentially tricking a scum into killing themselves, town has, again, an optimal chance of winning, even higher than in a normal game due to polarity mechanics.

Even if you think I am scum, my alignment hardly matters at this point. You vote No Lynch, and you will be ensuring as much as you possibly can that I am dealt with as scum, period. I

would

pour all my heart and soul and being into convincing you, really, I would...but considering the situation we are in, it seems unreasonable. I know that I am not scum and thus I won't be shooting at you tonight, so I'm not sure what I have to fear from you...unless, of course, you decide to gamethrow by voting for a lynch. And I seriously doubt that you are going to do that.

[Kaiveran]

TiphaineDeath, Light Locked Mafia Goon, was night killed.
Ika, Town Polar Linker, was night killed. His polarity was Light at the time of his death.

2 light flips. Two dark aligned people. Not a hard leap to make to "everyone who was dark aligned has a NK." Saki claimed that he was dark aligned.

Oh, I see now...

But I can't figure out how this is supposed to invalidate my logic. What if it's a mistake in wording? If it isn't, what's to stop scum!Saki from just coming in and claiming that it is? We'll get nowhere

No matter who the scum are (You/DGB or You/Saki, most likely) no lynching is the best possible option, because it leaves the possibility of both scum dying, which is an instant Town Win, or can make it so that

only

one scum dies, which at least leaves the town in a position to reevaluate and win in regular LyLo next day. I don't get how anyone town can be opposed to this.

p-edit:

If we know the alignment of one of them, I can lock that alignment and we can both switch to that alignment. A no lynch here is the only way that doesn't work, because I can't lock two scum. We know saki's alignment, thus saki is the one we should keep around.

Kai is arguing, because e knows if we follow my plan then he can't win.

Kai, if you are town, stop voting for a no lynch in possible lylo, thanks.

My problem with this is that you are most likely scum. If we lynch today and go with the plan of everybody going Light, there is absolutely nothing to stop scum!you from going Dark and killing the person of your choice, leading to a win for you or, worst case scenario, a draw with the other scum. Either way, town loses.

So, no.

p-edit 2: see first paragraph

[Kaiveran]

Saki gets to be town hero once more.

VOTE: no lynch

Kai you aren't getting a kill on me tonight or (hopefully) DGB so shoot Jordan please <3

Well, I guess you are going to be town hero, just not for the reasons you might think.

Odd how you've been seduced by scum into the most optimal option for town. Puts me in an interesting conundrum. Nothing I can do about it now though. Nothing

anyone

can do.

Hopefully by the end of the night, the game is still going, I'll have done a thorough reread from the ground up, I'll be able to show you how much the remaining scumfuck is bullshitting (or you'll already know, in the case of Jordan), you'll eat some humble pie, and then we can finish them off together.

[Kaiveran]

Saki, no, you are fucking this all up.

You had it right when you were voting No Lynch.

Please, stop for a second and think rather than fooling yourself into thinking I am confscum, as DGB has pushed you to do.

My heart is pounding. I want to panic. I want to beg and plead and shit up the thread as much as possible, but I know none of that is ever convincing. So I need to try to calmly reason this out with you, because you are the only hope I have left.

I admit, I haven't performed the best here. In fact I'm pretty sure that this is the first time I've been in such a situation on site. I have difficulties articulating my thoughts in my posts which only increases under pressure.

But look at this pile of shit we see before us now! If either DGB or Jordan were town, would they ever be as unabashedly reckless as to put me at L-1? Do you really think that in what is essentially LyLo, the town version of either of them would discard

any possibility

that they were wrong and just run me up to quickhammering range?

Town + Town

wouldn't do it

until

they had thoroughly considered all the options and

discussed it beforehand

, rather than just quickwagoning me out of the blue like morons.

Town + Scum

wouldn't do it because then the lone scum on the wagon would be handing the hammer to other scum and therein maximizing the chances that they die during the night.

Only possibility left is

Scum + Scum

.

So please, if you

seriously

think I am more scummy than either DGB or Jordan, you need to tell me why so I have a chance to convince you otherwise. I thought it would be abundantly clear by now, but apparently you're not getting it, and listening to someone's testimony before you make what could be the final decision of the game is the basic pro-town thing to do. So just open a debate with me, please, so I can try to explain things more adequately for you.

Unless of course, you really are scum and have been playing me like a goddamn instrument this whole game. Then feel free to hammer and take the well-deserved win. But to me it could not be more obvious that DGB/Jordan are the scum.

[Kaiveran]

*sigh* Saki's such a town hero this game even his stubborn close-mindedness is pro-town.

How?

He's gone fucking ham sandwich on this game and frankly if he is scum he deserves to win this game.

Kai, permission to sig this after the game ends?

Sure thing.

Well, I guess we'll all just chill till deadline, because I'm not moving my vote, Saki's not moving his vote, and Jordan's not going to lynch himself.

Bye

p-edit: but seriously, nah, I can't

DGB just got finished calling you scum on the last page and is suddenly now totally trusting you and pretending to be interested in a strategy you just got finished laying out after she called you scum. She's not even reading, she just wants any lynch to happen (that's not her) so she can win.

I'm just saying.

humble
fucking
pie
SHALL
BE
EATEN.

Anyways I'm not going to miss more school assignments and raise my blood pressure anymore over a day phase that should have been over already. pce

[Kaiveran]

humble
fucking
pie
SHALL
BE
EATEN.

Unless

....only Jordan dies tonight, in which case you'll immediately vote me in LyLo so that DGB-scum can quickhammer for the win.

So I really

do

have to pour everything into convincing you (and probably reread and scour every single fucking page of this game from the beginning) in order to convince you today and ensure a town win.

Fuck.

Well, 11 days should be plenty of time for me to inflict Saw-tier torture on myself.

[Kaiveran]

i regret everything I've ever done up to this point

[Kaiveran]

Just dropping in to say that I don't have that full-game evaluation done.

I'd explain things in detail, but a picture is worth a thousand words:



The last few days would have looked the same had I actually used the calendar, only with all the work being crammed into the last 1 1/2 days due to procrastination.

And now this is going to be infinitely more stressful because I have to deal with my modded game AND crossbuddying, Gish-galloping scum trying to foment a critical mass of shit on top of all this.

VOTE: DGB

May I take this as a sign that you've finally seen DGBscum?

Even if you haven't, please give me time to work. Real life comes first. I'm pretty sure I'll get something to happen within two weeks.

[Kaiveran]

Although, come to think of it, we might have a Happily Ever After situation on our hands, folks.

If Jordan is telling the truth (which I can't verify since I kept myself in Light last night, but I don't see any good reason for him not to be,) he can infinitely protect himself by locking DGB into Dark and keeping himself Dark...but that also guarantees that he can't kill DGB (and vice versa) leading to night after night of no-kills on cross-targeting.

Therefore, scum's only options for killing are us townies, which may fail due to polarity (and in the case of Saki being targeted, may cause them to lose the game to a reflect kill.) Even if they succeed, they are bringing the game closer to a scumdraw, or even achieving one if they kill both of us, which they obviously don't want.

And town has obviously no incentive to lynch anyone and make this more of a slot-machine roll than it already is. Ugh.

but I've spent enough work time on this already. Later

[Kaiveran]

PRODGE, about half done with my massive workload and the hard parts are mostly over.

Not sure I'll still need to do that thorough evaluation if Saki's come around to DGB though, but can it really hurt? Only my sanity, probably

I really wanna note our options though, @Saki:

Since the game is closed, Bulba isn't likely to respond to any HEA speculation.

We

can

play semi-Kingmaker here if you want. Lynch off a scum today, hope for a polarity miracle at night, and if neither of us die we can lynch the remaining scum for the win (if you haven't already vanquished them with a reflect-kill). If

that's

the way you want to play it however, the optimal play is to try to lynch

Jordan

, since he might be able to lock one of our polarities and guarantee a game-winning kill if he goes into night, whereas DGB seems to have no such power. That's assuming DGB will drop the facade and hammer him, though, and that's no guarantee.

Our other option and/or fallback, of course, is to no lynch again and let them duke it out once more. If we get a no-kill again, well, that's up to Bulba's discretion whether he wants to continue the game or not.

[Kaiveran]

So be it.

VOTE: No Lynch

[Kaiveran]

WHAT

Seriously

Saki was SK

There's a neutral polarity with three people alive

Well I guess in hindsight I should have realized Saki scum when he asked to sign that quote of mine, but how is the latter even possible?

I'm not sure my mind is ready for the prospect of SKOT being right about pretty much everything

[Kaiveran]

I'm on my phone at work.. that last post took about half an hour to make

When I get home I will start rereading the and I recommend other town to do the same

For now I will note that I am still Light, so there is one person Dark and one person with no polarity somehow.

I'll assume that being neutral means that all your actions go through and all actions work on you. In isolation its a double edged sword and thus difficult to place on town or scum. I will note that it fits Jordan's claimed role particularly well.

[Kaiveran]

Actually fuck that.

VOTE: Kai

FUCKING UNVOTE YOU IDIOT.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO EVEN

TRY

TO REEVALUATE YOUR READ OF ME IN

FUCKING LYLO

?

IS THERE A BRAIN IN EITHER OF THOSE TWO HEADS?

[Kaiveran]

I'll assume that being neutral means that all your actions go through and all actions work on you. In isolation its a double edged sword and thus difficult to place on town or scum. I will note that it fits Jordan's claimed role particularly well.

Quite a jump here from no information.

You also claimed the polarity that killed Saki.

Either you're neutral scum whose action always goes through or your Light aligned scum who got a kill off on Saki last night.

DGB, end this game.

What the fuck else would neutral be?

No

actions going off or being received? How the hell would a neutral be scum then?

If I were scum, why would I just go and claim a polarity that killed off my biggest townread and cast doubt on myself?

[Kaiveran]

More importantly, if you were fucking town

, why would you not even consider the possibility of a re-evaluation? The only reason you would do this as town is if I was 100% confirmed scum, and I am not.

You would also wait to hear from DGB, your 100% townread, before just shitting out a vote.

I'm beginning to think a re-read might not be necessary. I can't see bullshit like this ever coming out of town in LyLo. And with Saki flipping SK, DGB is likely the other town.

Which means my only option is to crossvote you and put her in the hot seat, and hope to all fuck that I can convince her.

VOTE: Jordan_Downey

[Kaiveran]

DGB, I need you to open up a dialogue with me.

Jordan, try as he might, can't cut off the conversation before it's even started. You have the hammer to dole out, so that is now your choice, and I know that if you are town, it is not in your best interests to end things quickly. It's in your best interests to take your time and analyze anything that you think is necessary, on

both

parties, before you make your decision.

You ended last day appearing to strongly scumread me, which in the likely situation that you are town, means that I have so far failed in my duties. So for that I'd like to issue a pre-emptive apology. I am just an odd person, and feel that I often have difficulty communicating effectively or articulating my arguments, especially in a high tension situation. Which leads to what most people would call shitty play. In this game it's only been compounded by real life circumstances and modding a game on top of it, so this game simply could not have the fullest extent of my attention and efforts. Perhaps it was a rash decision to join this game. Oh, who am I kidding, it was a

really fucking stupid

decision. I should have known that looking at the game through a spectator's eye and a player's eye are two

very different

things, and I severely underestimated what it would take to come into this game. And now I am in this predicament.

But there's no going back now. I'm not going to be that asshole who gives up and replaces out in the final hour. Besides, no one is going to replace into this clusterfuck, especially given that the Replacement Thread is burdened with huge numbers of requests. The burden is mine and mine alone to bear.

So, with all that said, here is basically the meat of my message to you:

You are wrong about me, and I need to be given the chance to show you why. The only way that is going to happen is if you talk to me.

So please, voice your grievances, take me to task on anything you like. I will try to explain anything that you feel needs explaining. I will even comment on my predecessor's play if necessary, although given that I am not Xayzeck and am not familiar with him at all, I cannot guarantee satisfactory responses on that front.

In any case,

don't

let Jordan fool you into thinking the game is over, because it isn't.

You

decide when the game is over. Even if you strongly feel that he is town and that I am scum, you can't deny that him rushing to vote me without even waiting for you to comment (among other things I've noted) is brash and anti-town, and in LyLo,

nothing

is an excuse for not sitting down and thoroughly evaluating all of your options before dropping the decisive hammer.

So grill me, grill Jordan, grill all you like. Just get to grilling, please.

[Kaiveran]

Huh, somehow DGB's last couple of posts didnt appear in preview.

But good, she's not scum.

Have fun with all that then!

[Kaiveran]

Don't worry Kai, I skipped your posts.

Okay, well, you are going straight into my blacklist after this game for your hard-headedness and utter lack of any sense to inform a make-or-break decision that is in your hands as town. And considering the only other person on my blacklist currently is SKOT, that's a pretty big achievement in ignorance.

Yes, I'm aware that saying this is possibly breaking site rules. I don't care. In fact, I'd just about

prefer

to be modkilled at this point because if this is what I'm going to get from a

townie in fucking LyLo

of all stages, then the town is fucked anyway and I'll be more than glad to put this pile of shit behind me along with the players that have made it so. I know I did the best I could with the hand I was dealt, and I cannot possibly fathom what I have done that's so unimaginably scummy that you will totally disregard anything I say and treat me as 100% scum Jordan as 100% town. I seriously can't.

Let's not even mention the fact that Jordan came as close as he could to outright claiming Neutral in this post.

I mean, for real. What purpose does your brickwalling serve?

[Kaiveran]

I was incredibly frustrated and shaken up and trying my damndest to stay calm and rationally address you. Sure, my posts have been pissy and loaded with profanity, but I think I have the right to be a bit pissy (or at least it's understandable) when I'm about to be the game-ending mislynch and the confirmed town (you) doesn't seem to be listening to me.

That last part was badly worded (and also misses the fact that he literally points to it as an alignment claim a couple of posts later). What I meant to say is that Jordan is acting like it's totally impossible for him to be the scum that made last night's kill on DarkSaki. It's not. Neutral could have killed him just as light could have killed him and therefore the "neutral scum whose action always goes through" argument applies equally to Jordan. To eliminate him from suspicion is anti-town, although far less anti-town than him tossing a reckless vote out in Lylo before anyone else had even posted.

I'm going out tonight and don;t have time for much else than to check on my game. I will get to work tomorrow.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate seeing the actual case on me, because I don't remember there being any. Other than your "magic endgame tell", which I hope will be summarily retired after this game is over, because it

has

failed.

[Kaiveran]

Wow, seriously?

You are going straight the fuck into my blacklist as promised, and in fact, I'm actually thinking of swapping SKOT out for you, since as aggravating as he was he at least got rid of some actual scum.

There was STILL no case on me. You just threw the game while I was doing yard work, and everything I did amounts to shit because you wanted to be the town hero with your bullshit magic tell. Nice fucking work. Jordan's post was meaningless drivel that I could have dismantled HAD YOU GIVEN ME A GODDAMN CHANGE TO RESPOND.

Oh yeah, and "dragging this out for theatrics", real fucking classy. I can only assume you think my suffering is funny, thus furthering my determination that you're an utter antitown ass that I never need to play with again.

[Kaiveran]

Ugh

I'm sorry
I'm assuming the game is over in favor of Jordan, which is the only possible situation from my point of view

GG guys, although I deign to say well played
I still stand by my statement that Saki SHOULD have won this game

[Kaiveran]

I'm assuming the game is over in favor of Jordan

Jordan, who is indeed town, right?

LOL

Nice try

Why the fuck would I waste my energy fake-raging as scum post-game when I would have already lost? It accomplishes jack shit, just like you have done for most of this game.

I take it you're not big on respect, so about the only response this post deserves is "go fuck yourself."

Hopefully, you'll realize how stupid you've been once Bulbazak gets here.

[Kaiveran]

Like, really, I'm not even mad that you chose wrong. It was the

way you did it

that was infuriating.

So yeah, you're definitely on my blacklist. I was on the fence until you decided to troll and insult me with your self-absorbed snark. You crossed the fucking line when you made it a matter of personal dignity and respect, DGB.

[Kaiveran]

Welp, I'm really glad for this to be over. Larges are exhausting. Jingle had to finish out the game. Benefit of the hydra.

Thor, there was some time there I was actively posting scummy and Jingle really didn't like it at all. It was quite fun and seemed to turn the reads off of us. Obviously something else perhaps.

Kai, good push there at the end. With the replace in and a fresh viewpoint we figured you'd have a solid case against us. I guess the 160 pages even if read was a little too much without playing in it perhaps?

I actually wrote some stuff down this morning and was fully prepared to rip you a new one, only to find out that I had already been trollhammered. Maybe I overreacted to DGB a little bit, but man, I was

really

pissed off.

But yeah, I think having it earlier would have done wonders. Unfortunately like I said I failed to fully appreciate the difference between a spectator's perspective and a player's perspective, and then I got swamped with a shit-ton of work.

Anyway, I've been up too late already, and I've probably said some things I'm going to regret so I welcome more discussion with me tomorrow when the chill-pill has taken full effect.

[Kaiveran]

Kaiv you do not know me very well but just FYI, I really was having major issues and even with V/LA in my games, I have cut way back to one new game only because of us moving and dental and taking road trips to varying places in CA before we leave the state to move to TN later this month.

I am getting the last of my teeth pulled on tues and an upper denture and lower partial put in. My fiance, NS (Nobody Special) has already had his teeth removed and full dentures put in. It has been total chaos. I totally had planned on taking some serious time when you helped get me lynched.

BTW I was wrong I was sure it was DGB since she knew what was up and was pushing so hard on me as scum. I should have stuck to my guns on Saki as well I was confused but realize I was still partly right he was SK not Mafia.

Had I been not lynched I might have come around to JD though. I usually do best later in the game than at the beginning.

Yikes. Yeah, I'm really sorry about that, Rach. I was frustrated and worked myself up into a frenzy over...not that much, really. Hammering you off before you had a chance to defend yourself and other players weighed in was definitely the low point of my play this game.

Maybe I overreacted to DGB a little bit, but man, I was really pissed off.

Your posts were unpleasantly aggressive and long-ish. Reading them kinda put me in a little bit of a bad mood, you know? You might want to test a more friendly style that would be more persuasive.

Congrats to Jordan, you fooled me!

Aggression is not alignment indicative in the slightest, especially in Lylo, and you shouldn't read it as such. I am normally pretty laid back when playing but in desperate situations like I was in my aggression tends to spike and I try my best to get as much information and arguments out there as I can, because I feel that being seen as weak, timid, or unthorough can and will be a death sentence. That is my style, and I know you hadn't played with me before, but you need to be able to adapt and seriously dive into people's POV, rather than get stuck in the mindset of "X did Y and is therefore 100% scum and I have no need to analyze further". All these "tells" smells like hells

Another tip: if you put up a brick wall to someone and outright claim not to be listening to them, that person is

less

likely to engage with you in a satisfactory manner, not more.

And I do apologize if you feel offended by my remarks, but I felt really insulted and disrespected personally by the way

you

acted, DGB. I hate it when people don't even give me a chance even when I politely request it, and seeing people call my genuine emotional reactions fake REALLY makes me fucking lose it. So I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

Poor kaiveran she was so earnest


U SUX, DGB

QUIT STALKING ME D:

j/k I don't mind being stalked by you

'cause you are Beautiful

no matter what they say~♪

ALSO, THE DEAD THREAD IS FULL OF VALUABLE LIFE LESSONS AND EVERYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN IT NEEDS TO GIVE IT A THOROUGH READ PLZKTHX. <3

-----------------------------------

So, random question time for Bulbazak:

What exactly did all the odd PR's do? (Like Deflector, Polar Shifter, etc.)

Did the SK have any extra powers?

Did the Polar Majority/Minority roles just coinflip if the Field Polarity came up neutral?

[Kaiveran]

Also I'm pretty sure it's illegal to kick as much ass as SKOT did in 22 states and the District of Columbia. I guess he really is the sharpest knife on the tree, dohoho.

Sorry for severely underestimating you along with 90% of this game. You're not bad, you just need to work on your people skills.

[Kaiveran]

No problem. Life > Mafia.

Kudos to Bulba also for working hard on this setup. No complaints whatsoever on the setup/modding side of things; you held up your end of the bargain 100%.

Anyways, does anyone want to comment on anything they feel was objectively bad about my play that hasn't been covered? This game was one of the most unpleasant experiences I've had and I don't want to leave without something to show for it.

[Kaiveran]

I am just an odd person, and feel that I often have difficulty communicating effectively or articulating my arguments, especially in a high tension situation.

This line was were I was pretty sure we were going to be fine. I got this weird backtrack vibe from it and felt for sure Kai was going to get himself lynched.

having flaws is scummy

[Kaiveran]

sorry for my screw up on the last kill as SKOT... I had thought of one more partner trying to sniff out. My fault.

Ehh, you had a brain fart. It happens.

Otherwise I agree with TSO completely, you fucking ruled this game as town and were our only bulwark against being completely crushed. I'm sorry I got so caught up in the shitfest against you. I got duped, plain and simple...and I personally take back

every

insult I may have hurled at you.

The only advice I can think up for you is to work on your persuasive game. Now matter how obvious something may be to you, there will always be those who cannot see what you see, because of different skillsets, experiences, and ways of handling information (and the "shove it down their throats" style doesn't have many fans). I know from experience that it's

hard

to defend the obvious from absurd and deceptive attacks, but you have to at least try to find other inroads to people if one approach isn't working.