Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[Thor665]

Good to know.

Vote: Xayzeck

What else is happening?

[Thor665]

Well this should get interesting now

Welcome Thor (and your beard)

Why do you think Xay is scum?

Big game.
Lots of noise.
Was approached in earnest way.
Happy to force a claim and move on from there.

Why do you think we shouldn't?

[Thor665]

You should vote it anyway then, and see what happens.

[Thor665]

Thor why would I vote for one of my town reads just cause its the bigger wagon?

Because apparently your alternative is to state that you're laying out a meaningless vote while waiting to "see" if you want to vote your top scumread...?

Well because I happen to think Xayzeck is far more likely town than not, so.

Then, judging by the vote count and game state - you better start selling a case like a boss.
I can't even describe your current case...now, I'll admit part of that may be because I have read like...three pages. But still - you need to be wearing big boy pants if you want something else to actually happen. If you're just trying to collect town points by saying vaguely town things while doing nothing since you're scum, hen you're playing it perfectly - carry on.

Does anyone else think Nacho is kind of fishy?? I remember playing a game with him like ages ago, and back then he was like running the show. Like, I know he's V/LA, but even before that he didn't seem to be as engaged as before.

If Nacho is scum then him being a lurksack is not likely part of a valid case. Being a lurksack appears to be his new SOP as far as I can tell.

[Thor665]

aegor's play so far:

>join the necro derpwagon
>pawn off some non-game related Smurf as the reasoning (see: whatever the point of "they're a tumor" Smurf was)
>sit on a wagon that's clearly not going anywhere
>anything that's not tunneling on us are little Smurfy jabs (see: the dryfit attacks among other things)

a quick look at aegor's 41 post ISO shows this high signal: noise ratio.

so yeah, time to read like a boss, now, thor.

I refuse to read the rest of the game still.
But, yeah, sure, get a wagon on Aegor that's as big as the one on the other likely weak player, Xayzeck and I'll vote that one. I suspect the cases are fairly equivalent.

Thor, Nacho is V/LA atm so hes not lurking and yes I want to see more from him when he gets back.

When he gets off v/la he'll lurk. Prediction is in the pot

And, yeah, your current vote is beyond useless - are you seriously arguing with me that it isn't? You placed it saying 'well, until my top scumspect gets back guess I'll vote here' that's not even a pressure vote, and it's certainly not a vote that is going to get sheep.

I'm all for pushing lurkers but it doesn't look like it's going to be very effective (read:SSK).

The trick is you lynch the lurkers - that forces scum to not urk or get lynched. it won't affect the town lurkers, but that's the price town pays for having bad players in town.

On the other hand what I don't get is the push on what appears to be a very active player with cases like "this post is a scumpost" and "this is scum flailing" which are generally quite bullSmurf. So it's not the case I really don't understand as I've hardly paid attention to it because Xay seems at least town-ish to me. It's the *push* where he might actually prove useful in the longrun if he is town.

Who would you rather we lynch and why? This Day phase is already too long and full or lurk. We should get a claim in the next 48 hours to give us something worthwhile to talk about.

[Thor665]

Hey, Thor!
I posted something, you should sheep me!

Try posting something sheepable and we'll talk. I'm town reading TSO. And a few posts from now you'll actually get mincy with your read there. That is not sheep territory.

Help me lynch someone - this town is ridiculously silly and scared about pushing a lynch to claim territory.

Thor: You mention the other weak player, I'm guessing xay, in 994. Since in reference to Necro suggestion on aegor. Although only one game with aegor, he's shown an ability to read a game and determine his outs when he dodges a lynch by claiming scum in multiball and selling the town on him effectively being a vig and he lasted to end game. Not saying he's amazing by that play, but certainly wouldn't consider that weak.

Okay...?

You're voting him and are functionally arguing against my willingness to join the wagon because you're worried I might be underselling the skill of his scum game? I really don't follow you here.

[Thor665]

I'd be game to lynch Jordan now too - make that a bigger wagon than Xayzeck and I'll happily hop on there.
I'd be pretty happy lynching most of these people - I have no idea why everyone else apparently has so many town reads, or is foolish enough to think *their* scum case is truly the magical and beautiful scum case, unlike the others.

I also think MafiaSSK is likely town.

Can we get someone to L-1 now?

[Thor665]

Also like how Thor is going to not play the game but willing to put his vote wherever.

Yeah, it's really strange how Thor is "not playing the game" but is willing to put his vote out (and I'll also ignore that he has stated town reads) - clearly he is not playing the game!

What are you thinking you're accomplishing here?

Thor I do not have a scum read on xay.

I do on Pere and TMCT

Though the one on Pere is stronger.

Since I have been in the game you have explained neither vote nor attempted to get support for either wagon.
Why are you intentionally sidelining yourself?

I don't care if you 'don't have a scum read' on him, I'm asking if you have a town read on him. There are too many players in this game to just avoid lynching people you don't scum read.

I'm town reading TSO.

serious? how and why?

No, I decided to randomly make that comment up and say it so that I could engage in debate about it.
I have it because I read him.
The reasoning is that, the only questionable thing he has done is the violent buddy of me. Conversely he has been very clear in being willing to attach himself to his reads and push them. He is making a lot of waves and noise without fear in a game with a large pile of players. If he is scum, he'll be gone sooner rather than later. I take the open opinions as a town tell though - I think he wants to solve the game.

If anyone has a town role PM and is thinking 'that's a really easy and silly reason to town read someone' then please note that unless your name is MafiaSSK I am not town reading you...and just think about that.

[Thor665]

@Rach - and if you do townread Xayzeck, what about Jordan? You should vote Jordan.

[Thor665]

I think he wants to solve the game.

I honestly don't get that kind of impression

He just comes in and yells for a random tunnel, when we haven't even interacted.

Hell, I don't even feel like he's been pushing me. It just feels like he's come in, SEEN me do stuff, called me scum for it, and told other people that they should vote me.

I can't even remember 1 moment in this whole game where he has actually talked TO me, and not ABOUT me.

That's not sorting people out.

I get that impression - he's talking to other people, whether or not he talks to everyone (and I doubt anyone has) doesn't really matter to me. It also doesn't matter to me that he's pressing you as scum and trying to sort others - that feels fine to me.

What's up with your vote? You really think that's going anywhere? What sort of sorting are you doing as regards it?

I guess I was not clear enough Thor

I have Xay in my town pile. I will not vote for him unless there is no choice because of deadline.

I have a strong scum read on Pere. Part of it is based on experience with him in several games, part of it is associative tells and wagons.

If he's in your town pile, and in a game this large, you shouldn't vote him at all. Why is he town?
Also what's your read on Aegor?

Rach is scummy to me now.

[Thor665]

What's wrong with it? Sheep me and it'll take off.

I skim his case, it felt town. I read it, it felt scum, because the reasons were utter Smurf. I responded to start interacting so I could try and find out if he was town or scum. Votes him in the process so that he wouldn't ignore me maybe.

And I get absolutely nothing.

He's either scum pushing a mislynch haaaaaard as fuck, or town with an ego bigger than Jupiter

I lean the former

Meh, your take here is pretty superficial and deduces scum instead of pride when...y'know, pride is one of the biggest extroverted emotions on this site. I'll also admit to feeling a slight touch of hypocrisy in how you're interacting with him considering your vote and what you're calling him out for not doing. You're dead meat at this point unless you can sell a wagon way better than this.

Hey, Thor, if you want to put someone at L-1, why don't you vote Jordan instead of talking about voting Jordan

Because there isn't support for a Jordan wagon.
I'll even agree he's a better wagon - but it's not like the Xayzeck one is pure bad either. Plus, if you want to kick that wagon into gear I'm not the top one to be selling because I'm not actually pushing much. You need to grab onto the lurksacks who are anti-Xayzeck wagon (like Rach and her utterly useless vote) and move them. Get the wagon some steam and *then* see if I'll come over. But when my stated goal is 'let's get a lynch...like a week ago!' I am not the optimal person to ask to get off the biggest wagon in the game.

Seriously now. Stop faking that wagon and push it if you want it. I even gave you a roadmap, here, I'll even do you one better and do some of the work *for* you.

@Rach - move your vote to Jordan, it's the only wagon that will stop the Xayzeck wagon, y'know, that slot you're calling town for...reasons.

@Zdenek - are you trying to be intentionally unhelpful? What's your read on Jordan? He needs votes.

@Pere - while you're catching up, unless you scum read Xayzeck and/or town read Jordan, you should vote Jordan.

There, Shiny boy, that's a wagon kickstart for you. Try to be proactive now.

[Thor665]

Everyone loves Thor.
And those that don't hate me.
So...actually I suppose there is a range of emotions.

@Shiny - even with the lurksacks that are 'most of the players here' we still have time to get a Jordan lynch. That said, as I described earlier, there are better and worse ways to go about pushing for it. I've already kicked that one as much as I care to. I will happily agree Jordan is the better vote, but I just don't find the value of my feeling (which is minor) to be worth the effort of bothering to be the ramrod when I can sit here on Xay. As I said, you get some motion, and then I'll move. Heck, get a couple other lazy bums to make the same promise and I'll also move. That said, Xay is a perfectly fine lynch despite protestations to the contrary - it's not like we're making a bad move, we're making a lynch in a morass of lurking sacks of a player who has some of the most posts. I'm pretty sure that has a reasonable chance to have some tells if he is scum, and if he isn't scum than I'm guessing (praying) not all of them are a wall war with TSO and we have the interactions with the other voters..

[Thor665]

Vote: Jordan

Speed alternate wagon last minute gambit failcalim lolwagon is a go!

[Thor665]

Move now, unless you actually have an amazing Dry Fit case (and you clearly don't, because you're not stating it repeatedly and forcing people to discuss it) then sitting on him like a lump is accomplishing exactly nothing.

[Thor665]

SSo yeah, someone should give me an actual reason why people are voting Jordan. Because as far as I can tell people are just sheeping Shiny and Shiny is for Smurf.

I will note that in the Thor/Shiny interaction, I called Jordan scum first.

As to my reasoning - please just pull up Jordan and myself in Iso and read that interaction. If you come out of it with a feeling of town intent from Jordan I would love to hear about it, and will happily discuss my thoughts and opinion of your play. If you read it and see a scum case, I wouldn't mind you voting Jordan at this juncture.

gasp

jordan is now the same size wagon as me

Good job looking town. [/sarcasm]

@Pere - the comment to Xay pretty much applies to you now too.

[Thor665]

I'll open up with the comment, that I actually see no reason to even think that Jordan's PR claim isn't a helpful PR for scum to have, considering what we know about night actions.

While a helpful statement, if you have any comments about my actual posted thoughts or comments, that actually helps a little more.

You haven't been willing to do anything to let me understand what things you're saying that you actually believe in. You are words without actions - there is nothing to assess yet other than finding you anti-town for having nothing to assess.

Hey Thor, I love your beard. It's all bushy and Smurphtastic. Now why do you seem so different this game from when I played with you last time?

Because you have poor ability to read me? Because this game is a large? Because some other situation? Dunno.

Vote: Aegor

[Thor665]

Is Aegor really better than SKOT?

Eh, the real question is 'is he any worse?' to which I think the answer is 'not really'. I'd like to get this claim and then force a choice between Aegor and Jordan - if people would rather force a SKOT claim then they should be voting SKOT.

[Thor665]

I was actually about to switch to Dryfit because the wagon was bigger.

Now I'm good with the Aegor lynch.

People should wagon one or the other.

[Thor665]

I was actually about to switch to Dryfit because the wagon was bigger.

Now I'm good with the Aegor lynch.

People should wagon one or the other.

Can you give me the TDLR reasons on why each is scum?

Total derptitude level ridiculous?

Uh...well, I'm a *very* bad person to be asking for much of any case on ither of them. My case on Dryfit is "he had the most votes."
My case on Aegor was "I am offended having to try to read the alignment of players who are happy to admit how anti-town they are, and if it's a scum ploy he needs death regardless"

At this point I really just want to force a second claim and lynch either that claim or Jordan. This Day has already gone on too long and too full of lurk and people just talking about lurk - I would dar say 50% of the interesting stuff that has happened is the wagon I forced, and the reactions to the claim thereof. I feel supported by this due to things like the next post I'm about to mock. Get on a wagon and let's continue the party.

I'mm vote Mastin.
Then will babble about stuff.
Then will declare a town vibe on Mastin, unvote him, then not place any additional vote, making the purpose of my original vote...?
The above also apparently sums up the first thirty(!) pages.

I could have done without that post.
You, apparently, could have basically done without that read.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the current wagons, and would like to see a vote in support of one, or an amazingly focused and lod push on a third option.

[Thor665]

@Necromancer, I've been reading backwards. What's null about Jordan's claim? If I understand it right, he'd be preventing the NK and not much else, unless I'm not understanding?

well, considering the role targeting works by the polarities meshing up, "polarity locking" sounds like it could just as easily be scum as town

Explain please? I would imagine a scum version of the role would be a polarity changer no? Change someone's polarity to XYZ... kill them?

Maybe.

Though, at the same time, it's pretty questionable what the value of the role is to town in any way shape or form.

I consider the claim to be akin to a claim of roleblock. Yeah, it's a PR, but...y'know, it's not a PR that screams 'I'mma town' really. Let's force a second claim and then consider what we're dealing with.

Why don't you like the Aegor wagon anymore?

[Thor665]

The last line above was an @Necromancer.

[Thor665]

Are you suggesting we lynch

an unCCed PR

claim on Day ONE? If it is fake and they are scum we will figure it out as the game goes on, but no way would I support lynching them at this time.

[Thor665]

Why don't you like the Aegor wagon anymore?

@Necro

(also, as regards to faking "stream of consciousness'... Consider yourself pooh-poohed)

[Thor665]

Why the sad face at me, Thor?

You were bringing up unCCed as regards Jordan as though that means anything at all. There could be 4 of that role in this game and I wouldn't be surprised nor inclined to lynch anyone over it.
I also have no idea why there being 1 of that role somehow makes him less likely to be scum.
You don't seem to be processing your thoughts. Are you really scumhunting, or just trying to look like you are?

I also don't like the assumption we need a lynch. Yeah, lynches give info but so do night kills. Unless scum NK and town no lynch, we are getting information. My opinion though is not widely accepted.

Your opinion may or may not be correct - though I have no idea why you value the info of night kills and not the info of lynches, and if you like one I see no reason not to like the other.
I'd also add that, statistically, more scum die to lynches than to night kills.
And that scum flips are vastly better info than town flips.
So...

i'm paranoid of thor and him dancing around all three of today's major wagons didn't and doesn't help to calm that.

You have accurately identified that I have no issue with a number of people ending up dead.

[Thor665]

You: Pere, I don't understand ______________. It seems to me _________________.
Me: Ah. Let me tell you why....

Pere, I don't understand why, after reading up on the game, your vote remained unmoved...and then, after this point, went to Mala off derp reaction test (at best), then snaked around to Titus, and then to a last minute (and exceedingly weak) jon wagon attempt with a promise to help with a hammer, so your vote, basically, is flopping around like a carp with you wanting to have me discuss your thoughts while your vote isn't manful enough to stand still and be examined for half a second which means none of your thoughts are either. It seems to me that you are either scum or a wuss.

Please fill in your blank now?

@Thor, your thoughts are the prevailing thoughts. I don't care to lynch unless we can nail someone to their position.

My thought prevails because it is easily more supportable than your thought, and indeed, your thought is a weird microcosm of my thought.

I will happily lynch someone I cannot nail to their position - that is a silly standard because, functionally, it means you'd nver lynch a lurker...which is not a good strategy.

[Thor665]

You: Pere, I don't understand ______________. It seems to me _________________.
Me: Ah. Let me tell you why....

Pere, I don't understand why, after reading up on the game, your vote remained unmoved...and then, after this point, went to Mala off derp reaction test (at best), then snaked around to Titus, and then to a last minute (and exceedingly weak) jon wagon attempt with a promise to help with a hammer, so your vote, basically, is flopping around like a carp with you wanting to have me discuss your thoughts while your vote isn't manful enough to stand still and be examined for half a second which means none of your thoughts are either. It seems to me that you are either scum or a wuss.

Please fill in your blank now?

@Thor, your thoughts are the prevailing thoughts. I don't care to lynch unless we can nail someone to their position.

My thought prevails because it is easily more supportable than your thought, and indeed, your thought is a weird microcosm of my thought.

I will happily lynch someone I cannot nail to their position - that is a silly standard because, functionally, it means you'd nver lynch a lurker...which is not a good strategy.

[Thor665]

Thor, I think you misunderstand. I want to hold ppl accountable for their votes rather than lols deadline.

Hold them accountable for lols deadline then - I always do. I'm accountable for all of my pushes today, even if my push logic is 'let's lynch somebody, yar!' because if the person flips town then I expect to be looked at, and if they flip scum...well, with the way I'm voting I expect to get town cred, but at least that can be looked at too. And if my vote reasoning can be assessed (and it can) anyone's vote reasoning can be.

@Pere - what didn't you like about Fear.

I agree with Titus as regards Pere's (and Necro's?) push on Mala for the 'factions role PM' thing.

I am fine with the Dry-fit wagon if his solution is to basically complain that he's being wagoned - looks like there's a reason you're lynchbait.
I am fine with the Jon wagon as long as it gets bigger quicker.
I am not fine with being so fine with so many wagons - usually I hand out town reads like candy to try to spook scum. I am not in that situation right now even to try to play up town reads. I have like three. It's not a happy place. Let's kill someone and regret it later.

[Thor665]

uh who exactly -are- you townreading? it's kinda hard to make out in the storm of wagons you support.

Give me a list of active lurkers and take your fucking pick.

I would guess 2-3 scum are doing the same.

Naming and not suggesting is usually a good idea

Well, who exactly are you referring to here?

Give me a list of active lurkers and take your Smurfing pick.

As a conversation thread - I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry about this one.

My town reads are not particularly worthy of mention at this stage because you were my strongest and then did ^^^ that. If I thought they were worth mentioning I would have happily mentioned them and announced them as town (which I did for you, my strongest) the other two...are weak. It's Nacho and the Shiny thing. No, I will not explain why, your answer is 'gut' and be happy with it. Yes, i put the blame on that on the rest of town and not me. No, I am not sure the point of this conversation.

That's me.

I am fine with the Dry-fit wagon if his solution is to basically complain that he's being wagoned - looks like there's a reason you're lynchbait.

There is no solution. The only possible alternative is Aegor but people don't want to vote him for some reason.

My solution is to tell you who to lynch next. Lynch Aegor and then Rach/Saki.

Would anyone else like to take part in the 'Lynch Me First!' Olympics? The competition is really hot and heavy out here, but I am sure the true champions will rise to the top.

WHy are even most of you lurking lackwits not voting one of the big wagons?

Like, seriously, we have;

Dry fit the gold medalist in AtE
Aegor, the world champion of 'I'll admit to scummy actions to make you think no scum would do that'
and
Jon the inventor and reigning title holder of the sport of 'Claim weird mental synergy, and then when it's pointed out you've shared nothing, claim synergy on...really weird things.'


Like...seriously.
If you're not voting one of them it's because of three possible reasons as far as I can tell.

1. You town read ALL OF THEM
2. You are super srs about your derp vanity wagon that is going nowhere.
3. You are lurking so much you haven't been around to change your vote in the last 36 hours or so.

C'mon guys, lets slap some stuff together here.

Basically ONE DAY LEFT ON DEADLINE.

Wakey, wakey, eggs and bakey! Your available options are the three above. Pick one, call it scummier than the other two for whatever reasons you care to, and let's force a claim.
This isn't rocket science, it's mafia.

[Thor665]

Actually, looks like Jon is even out of the running, so I'll randomly promote the next biggest wagon;

Field Polarity:

Neutral

Vote Count

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1): TSO
Malakittens (1): Shiny Hydreigon
TSO (1): Nachomamma8
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Jordan_Downey (1): Malakittens

THESE ARE WAGONS OF ABSOLUTE DERP.
ALL OF THESE VOTERS ARE DERP.
STOP BEING DERP.

Field Polarity:

Neutral

Vote Count

Dry-fit (8): Doublade, Xayzeck, RachMarie, Aegor, Saki, Spring Starflower, Jon_h61, Jordan_Downey
Titus (2): The Necromancers, PeregrineV
Aegor (6): Sharpest-knife-on-tree, TiphaineDeath, Thor665, Dry-fit, Titus, MafiaSSK

THESE ARE THE THREE BIGGEST WAGONS IN THE GAME!
ONE HAS TWO VOTES ON IT.
THE BIGGEST IS AT L-4!
24 HOURS OR SO LEFT IN THE GAME DAY!
WHASSUP!?!

[Thor665]

Unvote: Aegor
Vote: Dryfit

L-3

Wheeee!

[Thor665]

I'll even go on record as thinking Aegor is the smarter lynch because there feels like a bit more pull back on the wagon.
I've stopped caring though.

@Doublade - Preeeeety sure you're stuck reading about six pages back when that Jordan wagon was happening.
Thanks for helping though!

[Thor665]

wait no xayzeck's not even there either

why is jon in that list

[marquis]

pedit for the most part i've stopped

wanting to

car

e

ing too!! lovely

BECAUSE OF VOTES, YOU LACKWIT - YOU GUYS COULD HAVE HAD AN L-1 ON PAGE 2 FOR ALL I CARE AND I WOULDN'T LIST THAT EITHER.

[Thor665]

Xayzeck (0):

There's Xayzeck - what an awesome wagon of win that is! Super supported, all over the place, definately one of the big 3.

If you wanted it, you should have been there when I tried to make it happen.

[Thor665]

C'mon derp scum, just theorize that other scum are opposing the wagons of their buddies. Wagon up Aegor and Dryfit both. Chop, chop. Town has gak to do and you're actually now *losing* town points if you want to even wait a second longer.

You've already given up any town points you'd get for a scum flip on either of them, fyi.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Dry-fit
Vote: Aegor

[Thor665]

why is jon listed with dryfit and aegor when he's not even a major wagon? stop trying to sell him like he is, because at the moment i don't particularly care about that slot.

Because at the time I wrote the rant, I thought Jon had more votes than he did. Now - where is this line of conversation going?

[Thor665]

I also even clarified *immediately thereafter* that he didn't have that many votes, and he was off the board for me. So, again, where is this going?

[Thor665]

Nevermind. Thor is apparently anti-indecision.

Wow, really?

[Thor665]

Context, Thor. I'm saying I'm no longer planning on jumping to dry-fit to get a lynch through.

No, I was just bemused that you were pointing out that I am anti-indecision and aggressive...I thought I'd sold that already as my stance.

So, noo one else sees the impossibility for both jordans and dryfits roles to be in the game?

Why should we?

One is "lock player in current state"
The other is "has no ability to change state"

The interaction would be that Dryfit would remain negative polarity if Jordan targeted him - yeah?
Am I missing something?

[Thor665]

Vote: Malakittens

[Thor665]

I read Xayzeck again overnight, don't see him going anywhere. I sort of see the Doublade issue, but will admit I've drunk my wine there. I do think scum are on the wagon and mildly hand Necro and Jordan town reads. So...y'know, Mala. That's my logic, before people ask.

[Thor665]

I don't hate that vote.

[Thor665]

I don't hate that vote.

Then sheep it.

Wondrous things will result.

I prefer to lynch on than off the wagon at this stage, unless there's a brilliant case I'm missing.

@ Thor What are your plans Today? I started off liking your pushing wagons. But as the Day wore on, it started looking like you just wanted anyone lynched. Sure you said a few slots were scum, and a few were Town. But in your read list I couldn't find anything I felt I wanted

to

sheep. Who do you think most needs lynched, and why?

I'll go out on a limb and guess Mala...since, y'know, I'm voting her.
I'll add you to the list for asking silly questions that suggest you're not really reading the game

My only knowledge of you is from reading games when I was reading meta for someone else. I read one game where you were scum and you pushed lynches, and bullied Town, somewhat similar to Day 1 here. I don't remember who won anymore, but there are similarities I can see between the two games.

I should darn well hope my town and scum games look the same - I actively work at that. All these people with the easy meta tells just need to get better at one aspect or the other of their play.

I don't think all of jon/Jordan/Thor are going to be scum. Seems a bit too easy. But I definitely think 2/3 of them are for sure. jon being one.

This makes me want to ignore you too. Seriously, a Thor/Jordan or Thor/Jon (much less all three) you seriously think that makes any sense at all? Why am I such a psychotic bus happy jerk to my partners...when I literally could have built any wagon yesterday, as shown.

@Mala - to prove me wrong I'd love to hear your Jordan case.

[Thor665]

I was actually about to switch to Dryfit because the wagon was bigger.
Now I'm good with the Aegor lynch.
People should wagon one or the other.

For perspective, the wagons were 6/5, Dry-fit/Aegor...with Thor on Aegor.

For perspective...I said I was about to switch because "the wagon was bigger, but..." I actually don't get the point, i feel like I said - The sky is blue - and you came in 'to clarify, at this point in time the sky was blue and the grass was green' I mean...whut?

I don't care for them because of their chaining lynches, ridiculous theories and arguments that assume without actually listening. For instance, the Doublade town white knight.

Doublade asked to cut short the twilight. That generally only serves scum who are afraid to slip.

1. Considering your playstyle, why does the WK from mastin bug you specifically? Is it just that you don't understand where they're coming from? Because he's spewing gak about it. i don't *agree* with any of it, but I can theoretically describe the derp thought process that landed him there.

2. How exactly was this a good scum play? It was weird as all get out - don't get me wrong. But it's a bit like self voting in thread. Okay...yeah, that happened. it was stupid, helped nothing, and gave people a potentially stupid conversation topic to waste time on. But, like, seriously, say he was scum and wanted the mod to close the thread...why not just PM the Mod? That means he didn't think it looked scummy to do. And if he didn't think it looked scummy to do...he'd do it as town. So at that point, what is the big scumvantage...really? Like, what brilliant conversation needed to be shut down?

Let's start with the obvious: you can't WK scum. She's calling us scum-WKing Doublade, while simultaneously saying that Doublade is scum.

To be fair; I think we have a town-Thor, just a very *shaky* town-Thor.

What does that even mean? I'm not even being belligerent here, I've just never heard that term applied to anyone, and you just got Mastin to agree with it, so...whut?

[Thor665]

What does it even mean?

[Thor665]

It means I think you are town, but shaky is referring to your reads. I think you are misguided, but hope you can see the light.

Besides you, which reads am I shaky on? Because if that's it...ehhhhh.

[Thor665]

What did you learn from the reaction?

[Thor665]

I'll be in the corner shooting myself in the face.

[Thor665]

I find that phrasing perfectly fine with the belief you are scum. In fact it supports it.

[Thor665]

I support lynching Jon now.

[Thor665]

You're even in this game?

[Thor665]

Necro, how the hell do you get off chiding me for not working with anyone and then blatantly ignore my posts. It is as if you are trying to ostracize me and then blame it on me.

Do you actually think that's the plan?

I'm finally starting to town read Necro today.

[Thor665]

I'd be too dominate as obvtown remains to be seen

Do you honestly think Mastin has this as a fear of you?
Do you honestly have it as a belief in yourself?

I think Malakittens received a scum Role this game. (Slinks off into the corner to hide)

Hint: Vote your scum reads.

*flips coin*

How's it going, everyone?

We're voting Malakittens. How's it going for you fellow who could be sheeping me?

[Thor665]

^^^
I actually like this plan.

@Titus - as regards the jon post. Those posts are not exactly random, go read them in context. I'm not sure if I agree it's a scum case, but...there are a few potential options for the line of thought.

[Thor665]

I'll even go ahead and claim - no polarity change.

Let's get that ball rolling.

[Thor665]

I domt mind killing saki, however

No one should

[Thor665]

I submit scum will be forced to be honest about their polarity or be caught out - there are a number of ways it will become a pretty functional backtrack once (and if) a polarity claim happens.
Even if you think it's utterly useless, unless you can describe how it helps scum - I don't see an issue with it.

[Thor665]

@Jordan

- I think the sum of your plan is "claim whether you changed polarity the night before." Why would polarities not be included when claiming in general?

They would.
This is an additional claim every day.

For instance - Pere, did your polarity change last night? Yes or no?

Well I agree about that but It should not be used to clear someone for sure. Just saying that.

Who has been doing this or saying they intend to do this?

Did you polarity change last night?

thor

1) why is your vote on mala?
2) why is your vote STILL on mala given your jon scumread?

1. Because I haven't unvoted her since you haven't elucidated a town read other than 'OMG soooo town!'
2. Because it is possible to have multiple scumreads? I think the Mala wagon is doing interesting and good things right now, so I think it is worth voting for and advocating at this point in time.

Did your polarity change last night?

[Thor665]

Thor I really don't see wagoning me is going to accomplish anything. If anything it's in fact a lazy place to hold your vote.

It just got Shiny to vote you.
Also I've had multiple people addressing my choice - a choice I started out of whole cloth. If I wanted to be "lazy" (which is silly, because that is never a type of lazy I do as either alignment) I could have picked someone else or, simply hopped off with a 'lulz - reaction!' style comment as soon as I got any blowback. Instead I'm standing here trying to make it happen. So at least accuse me of working hard for a mislynch or being silly town who is fighting a battle not worth fighting. There are infinite lazy lynches available as compared to you at this point in the game.

I actually think you're tied for the biggest wagon as of now.
Do you really not see *anything* being accomplished here?

[Thor665]

Why is my post ignored?

Tell you what, I'll address it when you answer whether your polarity changed last night.

You also triggered me to look at your iso - you promised full reads list yesterday and said the list was basically ready to go...are you still working on that?

Vote: ZZZX

@TiphaineDeath - I am now also saying 'lynch this' so...whassup?

[Thor665]

ZZx has 0 votes, zzx is voting spring starflower, star flower says LYNCH THIS! with no reasoning and no vote.

Yeah no.

VOTE: Spring Starflower

titus scum slipped, simple as that.

Meh, leave her alive and see who she defends then, wanna sheep me?

[Thor665]

Another day of ZZZX delaying and dodging giving reads.

Got another vote on him.

I like the potential pattern here.

[Thor665]

I see your case, I'm just not sold by it but understand the theory you're running with.
I think my theory is stronger.
I don't have any preconceived notions about Spring's alignment.

Also, if I wanted to argue it - one could suggest that the lack of willingness to place a vote might just be distancing as opposed to an actual desire to lynch him - proven by the lack of a vote while using harsh language, ergo making them scumbuddies. But I have long been of the opinion that almost anything can be argued or justified in Mafia .

[Thor665]

Lost a page. Above is @ Tiphanie.

[Thor665]

I see Jon town because I see no case beyond lurker Jon. I ask for a case... no one says, Titus look here. You missed it.

Yet his wagon takes off.

Wagons that take off for reasons no one can explain are almost always on town.

>still ignoring mastin's talah cases.
>according the vote count, the only people who have voted jon are ... mala and us.

so how you can assert the wagon "took off" is beyond reason

.

Where are Mastin's talah cases? Link me please. That's precisely what I have been asking for.

Everyone started throwing mud that jon was scum cuz lurkerage.

That's a take off of a wagon in my book.

I know see Titus scum.

What is this gak, Titus - start a justification dance for me, asap.

[Thor665]

@Eddie - She's changed her story to a wagon that had some verbal support - as opposed to a wagon that had voting support. She is well aware that there were no votes on the wagon. Stop flogging a horse and react to the new stance.

[Thor665]

I'll also toss in though that, besides me, I'm not sure who expressed support to the idea of the wagon without placing a vote on it.

[Thor665]

I think ZZZX is a solid pick, and there's a decent roll of the dice that Titus is as well. If you picked either of them to pressure I would be happily content with your vote.

[Thor665]

I actually couldnt find the old readlist and just completed most of the one I was working at.

Did you, like, forget to save it or something?

I will at least agree with you that Saki could eat a bullet and make me very happy.

@Saki - you planning to replace out, or just to active lurk the rest of the game. I'd love to know the answer so I know how much to tunnel you and call you bad names.

[Thor665]

I support the ZZZX wagon.
I'm also pretty content with the idea of the Titus wagon, though I think the case is weaker.
I'd support a lulzy last minute rush for either Spring or Saki.

I'm a very equal opportunity lyncher.

[Thor665]

Thor is there anyone you would NOT support lynching?

Yes, many.

Even if you did a cursory ctrl+F of my posts and tracked down the start of Day 2 where I listed a couple town reads you would get a couple of them. I have also mentioned others. I would also note, that even if you wanted to read between the lines of my last comment and compared the wagons available and the number of votes on them you could even spot at least one more.

I have solid reasoning for each of the lynches I support - if you have an issue with individual reasoning then let us speak on that, but if your issue is "supports at least 4 different lynches in a game with 20 living players" then I really would like to see you justify why I need to be remotely chagrined by that. I am not. I think anyone with less than that is being dishonest to themselves or to the rest of the players, or is scum.

[Thor665]

Also @ thor, deadline isn't till like the 9th, lulzy rush yes, last minute no, come join in the water's fine.

Psssh.

"I support wagons A, B, C"
"Thor, I know A has, like, thrice the support B does, but come support B!"

Bribe me or give reasoning, but a 'hey, c'mon!' isn't worth spit for that one.

[Thor665]

Active lurking in the form of lying about your work on forming reads.

[Thor665]

How'd you lose those, by the way? Computer crash? Forgot to save them? Forgot where you saved them? What?

[Thor665]

Have to admit, I don't really buy it.

[Thor665]

Yea I know. Noone does. But how does that makes me scum? Cant scum also make reads? Would scum make up execuses that appear so fake? The only reason I am using the excuse I am using is because it is real. No freaking reason for scum to do something like what I did. Look freaking closely ...

Yes, scum can make reads. Yes, scum would use fake sounding excuses and often do. I know that you want me to believe the excuse is real. There are many reasons for scum to do what you did. I think I have looked closely.

How bout this thor, titus stalled hard, and as soon as I started actually advocating for another counter wagon at all there were three more votes on ZZX. If one of titus or Spring isn't scum I will eat my hat.

Maybe, or maybe scum could have seen him going down in flames and bussed for cred, or maybe he's just vaguely scum read quite a bit by many people.
I'll agree it's an interesting movement moment, but I think both you and Necro are simply choosing to read it in the way that supports your already held beliefs rather than in an objective manner.

I'm so totally going to use this game after it's finished as an example of why I strategically lurk even as town.

And I shall use it for why the idea is dumb - the presumption is "if I post, I'll derail stuff"
Functionally, if you hold that belief, you potentially derailed some other scumhunting situation that could have sprung up.

I might as well say "I'll use this as an example of why Thor starting flashwagons leads to information for town, and he does this by refusing to lurk when town and instead being active and voting" and would have just as much validity to my statement.

Lurk on subjects - not on threads.

Thor665,

Xayzeck

, Eddie Fenix, RachMarie, Doublade,

Jon_h61, Spring Starflower, Jordan_Downey

It's the ZZZX wagon with the scumteam you're calling out bolded (unless I'm not recalling things right, but I'm pretty sure this is what you called out).
Needless to say, he said, saying it, I'm not really sold on that scumteam. That isn't just scum pushing a wagon, that is scum wetting their pants in terror - and I see no reason for them to be doing that even if you have called them out, because no one is particularly buying what you're selling as shown by the votes (and, also, you're almost invariably wrong on at least 1-2 even if you are being scary accurate).

Jon is, I think, your worst read in the scum theory, and I'm also thinking you're wrong about Jordan. At that point, the sudden scary surge isn't quite so clear anymore, though I'll agree with you that Spring might be scum, and if so his actions are consistent enough with a bus as well that it doesn't rule out ZZZX as a partner.

I'll also toss out that I'm pretty sure Eddie is town.
I have no read on Rach though.

I agree with Xay about the post you're citing as ZZZX town. I have seen scum often and always address meta reads (Any who don't are bad players) so...why is that MS call out so exciting to you? Be as specific as you can.
Also, the deflection point...meh, I see it as deflection, you see it as part of an overall good call out.
Also, also - serious question here - do you honestly believe he had some sort of weird computer glitch wherein he lost some recent document saves and nothing else? Because that sounds like a really unusual and unlikely issue to me. What computer experience do you have that speaks of it as a likely issue?

*dances*

You spelled 'request replacement' wrong.
I'm getting an obnoxious 'spreads arms wide' vibe here. Of all of Mastin's reads, the one on you is the most clouded in self-delusion I believe.

[Thor665]

VOTE: ZZZX

Oppurtanisitic Naked Voters Unite!

I love how 90% of my wagon is like this.

Also try to meta me if you want. my playstyle is never differant.

I'm not voting you over your playstyle.

I'll agree that I don't know why most of the other people are voting you - but they also haven't been saying playstyle, so I'm not sure where this is coming from, really.

[Thor665]

Like you sheeped without knowing why

SMURF FREAKING SMURF IT LOL.

Who did I sheep?

And why is it funny/annoying to you?

zzzx wagon is okay i guess

why dry fit wagon gone

Because it's a boring wagon that had a barely well described premise that no one is functionally pushing. I'd volunteer to push it for you just to show you how it's done, but I honestly feel pretty good with the ZZZX wagon right now.

@Thor-

Which player have you labelled as scum but successfully not voted today?
Hint:

You have developed the counterwagon to this same player.

I will presume the answer is 'Titus'
The real answer is 'a small number of players, of which Titus is one of them - but I can see your intent'
My reply is 'so what?'

[Thor665]

Though, actually as currently stands - the answer could equally be Spring even ignoring other comments I've made. But you're voting Titus, so I'm sticking to 'Titus'.

[Thor665]

I will presume the answer is 'Titus'
The real answer is 'a small number of players, of which Titus is one of them - but I can see your intent'
My reply is 'so what?'

Because when Titus flips scum, then 2059 + 2062 + 2065 + no Titus vote will make you look bad.

If ZZZX flips Goon, then you'll look less bad becasue you bussed, but then Titus=scum PR.

If ZZZX flips badass scum PR, then, and only then, may your Titus stance be safely ignored. (Unless Titus flips badder ass PR.)

Ah, so the only way I can possible be town is to just blindly vote Titus...okay...

Hey, Pere?
When ZZZX flips scum, you're going to look bad for not voting him.
If Titus flips scum goon you'll still look bad because then ZZZX will doubtless flip scum PR.

Ah, whatevs, the joke is as stupid as the original commentary,a nd isn't even worth finishing for the slight lulz I'll get from it.
Your comment is silly five ways to Sunday and has no bearing on conversation today and my answer remains the same 'so what?'

[Thor665]

I still agree with their point that your wording there was weird and your defense of rewording was weak.

[Thor665]

@Mastin - I would like to just talk to you about a core issue of your defense of ZZZX.

You noted how he posted the same comment in all ongoing games (presumably as a boilerplate copy/paste as he went on v/la - I do the same thing)
In this copy/paste he claimed that he had reads partly written up that would be shared.
Now...I'm just going to go out on a limb...how true do you think that is? That in every game he had this theory partly written reads wall thing?
I don't think he had that in every game, it doesn't seem likely.

However, when asked about it in this game - it was lost in a odd and unusual computer glitch/error/what have you.
Because he really had it...

I don't buy that. It was a boiler plate thing, but he defended the situation as real, when there was no particular need to except to seem credible.
That's where I'm at.

[Thor665]

i cant talk about ongoing but lets say about games completed in that time. if i did that action in all my finished games and this it is NOT allignment inducative is it?

My point is that it *is* because in this game you then claimed that what you said was real. If you had initially told us 'there is no read's list, I was just copy/pasta' then I would not still be so excited by the idea of seeing you dead. But you claimed there was a list, and then that the list had been consumed, which to the best of my detective work didn't happen to anything else.

Consequently, I want to lengthen your neck.

[Thor665]

Huh, thor what games of his completed in that time so we can actually talk about them. And in those games did anyone call him enough to force a readslist?

Allow me to answer this way.

He posted that in multiple games.
I think it is pretty obviously a lie, and that's fine.
I think a town him would have been more comfortable admitting that.
He has consistently denied that this is the case, and instead had a computer somehow eat his readslist from this game, but not other stuff.

So - if he's tellin gthe truth then in multiple games he has made a partial reads list.
In a game where he was a jester and a this game his computer apparently ate them.

You may look at other theoretical games as you will, I cannot talk about any others if they exist in the theory concept of 'other games'.

But I don't think it feels legit.

[Thor665]

yaa

Your grasp of the game is brilliant and Mastin's take on your pro-town actions convincing.

[Thor665]

I'm mildly paranoid about the Titus defense of me, she has now, for the second time, hard defended me from something that was like a gentle summer breeze of an attack. The paranoid in me is saying 'scum aiming for fake connections after her death'

I'm liking the current Xay posting for town.

@ZZZX - please explain the Rach town read? What changed/clarified your mind there

[Thor665]

Thor, it's not about you. It's about having this be a no bullSmurf zone. Xay has lied twice about reasons why you could be scum. First on the ZZZX rationale and second on you not having a backbone to push anything but ZZZX.

You see lies, I see disagreements.
Eh...like, maybe it's a lie, and he knew that I had been pushing people but prayed that no one would remember...but...that seems unlikely to me.

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet et al...

It was a bad attack.

No, it wasn't and isn't a bad attack, it is a quite logical and reasonable attack - if I was to go the same way as your reply I could just say 'it's far more likely he was lying than managed to random derp up just this game's reads while not noticing it happening, I've never had that happen to me ever. It was a bad defense'

But I'm actually not trying to be snarky here.

Your defense is...it's *very* full of consideration for his plight. Let's ignore that. I find the situation unlikely, apparently you do it ever third day and it's super common. Let's move past that. Why do you think he wouldn't lie? Because, really, that's your statement point here, and mine is that he is lying. I think both of us agree the chance that he had a giant partially written post for every game he was in at that time (including one as a Jester) is...unlikely, right?

Or are you arguing that in the two games that can be discussed he was in the exact same situation as town and a jester?

Because I find that unlikely.
By a massive amount.
Why is that a believable leap for you?
Why should I believe it?

I'm liking the current Xay posting for town.

Funny, because Xay's recent string of posting is just about the most scummy he's been in a VERY long time.

Really? Why is that?

He was asked for reads and kind of presented this awkward and very gut oriented scum read on me.
A player who had been on him and pushed him to lynch a while back and then left.
A player who was now pushing another player to lynch.
A player whom, I think, has a bit of a bull dog reputation and ability to push lynches he's bulldogging.

Why bother to pick the fight with me after I had moved on?
Also, the way he phrased it felt hyper organic and not contrived to me. It felt like just his thoughts (compare to the fake feelings I get every ZZZX post I read... )

What are your thoughts on that?

[Thor665]

Thor, I don't believe bad pushes based on mistaken facts that aren't immediately retracted as being mere disagreements. I've been wrong a time or two. I retract usually once I understand where and how I was wrong. I explained that to Xay but he refused to retract. So yeah, I believe he's lying. Solid 100% proof, nah but good enough for me right now.

Eh. I think the push is weak and likely to go nowhere at this stage. I find it unlikely it was a malicious lie, and far more likely a lie of biased perception or a disagreement of the timeline in question.

[Thor665]

Is there any chance Spring can be scum Thor? The vote jumping kinda makes me want to test Mastin and see if he's right. There's something off in the recent vote changes but I can't put my finger on it.

I have no town take on Spring and recall being in general agreement with the scum points raised on him. I personally think Mastin is town, which means probably a few of his reads are likely to be pretty darn functional - the problem is wading through his sense of self worth to try to see which exist functionally outside of his insane-o web.

[Thor665]

Eddie Fenix (1): Malakittens
Dry-fit (3): Saki, Doublade, Xayzeck
The Necromancers (1): Jon_h61
Titus (3): Sharpest-knife-on-tree, PeregrineV, Perpetual Nonsense
Not Voting (1): RachMarie

The people with these votes need to reevaluate their place in the universe. Is your vote 'doing something'?
I, personally, don't think they are.
It is two days till deadline.
Y'know...pick it up, poozers.


@Necromancer - I have been *highly* underwhelmed by the 'reach out' tell as about one of the dumbest things ever done on mafiascum, I don't know where it started or why, but it is silly and poorly defined as a tell. That all said - WHEN YOU START DISCUSSING IT IN OTHERS IN RELATION TO YOUR SLOT AND DON'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE BEEN DESPERATELY ATTEMPTING TO ENGAGE YOU IN CONVERSATION WHILE YOU ARE JUST DERPING ALONG AND GIVING ME NEXT TO NOTHING, IT ANNOYS ME!

Just saying.
Get Mastin back in here, maybe he's reading enough to have an opinion to matter in that hydra - you are dead weight on it.

[Thor665]

@Thor, I feel Antihero is actually the better head. Mastina confbiases everything. A reachout usn't really a tell but it's used as a method of listening imo. Both factions can do it. You wouldn't call it a reachout but they exist in almost everygame.

That's the point, the entire reachout tell is "hey, one player is trying to talk to another player" it is possibly the dumbest tell in existence.

I am finding Mastin the far more functional head - he is at least aware hat he and I are talking. Mastin and I shared a few back and forths and had some not unsubstantive interactions about reads. Antihero is apparently totally unaware that was happening (shockingly bad play/communication) or decided that a massive interaction reach out like that wasn't worth mentioning, whilst two far less impressive ones were (which is just really weird, and possibly also bad play).

Hint: I don't find Mastin suspecting you to equate to Mastin being bad. Hell, *I* suspect you too, just not to remotely the same level. You are a pretty easy slot to suspect right now because you feel so generically tepid.

Mostly all I really care about at this segment though, is getting the lackwits sitting on vanity wagons to get in gear. The Dry Fit wagon is currently laughable, and I don't even town read Dry Fit, but that wagon is dead and populated by lurksacks. The wagon on you is actually not much better (and I scumread you) but at least Pere seems to give a hang, and Sharpest might. Perpetual is just a big wet sea lion honk though. Jon's vote is a joke and he should replace out for being bad (not as bad as Saki...but, then, Mastin thinks Saki is amazingly functional for reasons that continue to elude me). Rach is having health issues, which is certainly not optimal, but neither is her current lack of a vote. She should at least be able to sheep a town read...presuming she has one (?). Mala is a total derpsack with the current vote and should probably have moved days ago. I will even admit to becoming less and less thrilled by Eddie, but I still have him on the town side of terrible, and that's not something I'm willing to give up yet in this current gamestate. She should pick anyne else with a vote on them and move in order to even pretend to be helpful at this stage.

We should already have forced a claim by this point, people.
Just saying.

[Thor665]

I feel your attitude is tepid. You are extroverting emotions, but I do not believe they are reflected by your in-game acts.

When I have rage that people are ignoring scum - I am constantly talkign about the scum (and voting them) you are doing neither with Doublade.
I have discussed the issue with Xay - I still stand by the opinion that your defense felt weird. Also, if bad cases were all going to be attacked, you should not have time for anything else.
You also are focusing oddly on a weird slap fight with Mastin, complaining that they aren't listening, when, frankly, neither of you appear to be talking with each other - you are both talking at each other. I find it equally poor on both fronts, but don't get any more drive from you in that than I do from Mastin.

You also just sort of drifted onto the ZZZX vote. I am happy to have the support there, I will admit, but it's not like I feel you are excited by this wagon, it feels more like you're simply on it.

[Thor665]

thor, what do you want to talk with me about that you're not talking with mastin about?

Well...considering my presented issue was "you didn't even note that I was having a reach out conversation when you were discussing reach out conversations" how about we start with 'why did you not bring that up, at that time?' as something to talk about?

I don't split heads in a hydra, for the record. If I'm talking to Mastin, I'm talking to you, and vice-versa. You're one slot, you made that choice. Are you following the game?

[Thor665]

this is me declaring that I may or may not hammer the first wagon to get to l-1

This is me declaring you scum. What of it?

[Thor665]

...i don't even know where i was "discussing reach out conversations".

everyone else is pending/reserve judgement/whatever; the jon reachout is Smurfing the bed, but the titus one might go better, we'll see

[Thor665]

mastin's already talked the zzzx read to death with you and i agree with mastin.

No, he has had *two* exchanges with me, and thus far I'm waiting on the third. Highly demanding, I know. Why don't you answer the third, after all, you agree with him so you ought to be able to talk about it also. As I said, you feel like a pretty disconnected and useless head - you shouldn't force Mastin to do all the work in your scumpair, it's unfair.

and if you want to gripe at not running someone up to a claim *points at the votecount* our wagon is bigger.

I have never expressed anything of the sort as my gripe with you.

ZZZX is still survivalist and disgusting. Lynch him.

You're still voting Dryfit though, right?
Like, a day prior to deadline, and with no real support, and the Spring wagon having a bit of steam to it, and you're saying this and sitting on a useless vote.
WHAT THE HECK, DERPSACK!?!

Justify this gak, asap.

[Thor665]

haha, the OMGUS shoe finally drops

Haha - the useless shoe...oh, wait, it has been lying there for some time.

I have never expressed anything of the sort as my gripe with you.

...yes you have.

Mostly all I really care about at this segment though, is getting the lackwits sitting on vanity wagons to get in gear. The Dry Fit wagon is currently laughable, and I don't even town read Dry Fit, but that wagon is dead and populated by lurksacks. The wagon on you is actually not much better (and I scumread you) but at least Pere seems to give a hang, and Sharpest might. Perpetual is just a big wet sea lion honk though. Jon's vote is a joke and he should replace out for being bad (not as bad as Saki...but, then, Mastin thinks Saki is amazingly functional for reasons that continue to elude me). Rach is having health issues, which is certainly not optimal, but neither is her current lack of a vote. She should at least be able to sheep a town read...presuming she has one (?). Mala is a total derpsack with the current vote and should probably have moved days ago. I will even admit to becoming less and less thrilled by Eddie, but I still have him on the town side of terrible, and that's not something I'm willing to give up yet in this current gamestate. She should pick anyne else with a vote on them and move in order to even pretend to be helpful at this stage.

We should already have forced a claim by this point, people.
Just saying.

Well...gosh, who do you think you're voting. Because I *think* you're voting Spring, and so does the mod, and that's a wagon I specifically *did not* call out there.

So who do you think you're voting?
Because if you think you're voting one of the small vanity wagons then I fully understand why you think I was calling you out there about your vote being useless for forcing a claim.
Otherwise...I have no idea what you're talking about.

Oh, wait...the other shoe just fell, didn't it?

@Titus - yes, I can see Doublade as useless and am willing to entertain the idea he is useless scum. If Spring flips scum I'll help lynch DOublade tomorrow and will call ZZZX townish.

[Thor665]

@Titus - also, I'm already sick and tired of the pathetic slap fest that is talking to Antihero. You want to talk to him for a bit? Like, do you even kno wwhat he's going on about here besides sligning mud and making noise while doing nothing? Because he is like mud soup to me right now and I would happily talk to Mastin over that any day of the week.

[Thor665]

Like, talk to me - translate what he's doing.

[Thor665]

You're the gum on the bottom of this game. It's not actually much of a laughing matter that my reaction to you is "what is this guy smoking?" because, and I know it's shocking, town need to be able to communicate.

You're playing fine if you're scum - you're playing piss-poor if you're town. Feel free to adjust if needed.
Ask Mastin how he feels that I'm asking Titus to *translate what you're saying for the slot*.

[Thor665]

Antihero was calling you a hypocrite for not being on the biggest wagon and being pissed that no one was run up to claim territory.

If this is true it's an utterly idiotic thing to say - but the way he phrased the discussion was annoyance about me pressing him when I claimed I hadn't...so I don't think your translation is right here.

It's the part about you claiming innocent child and NOT being an innocent child.

I am on record as this being beyond dumb if you think it qualifies as a scum case.

[Thor665]

@Thor then what did you think Anti said? I don't think his point is idiotic.

He complained that I had expressed that he wasn't helping a lynch situation and derided me for thinking as such.
I said I had declared no such thing and asked for supporting evidence.
He provided a bold comment of a generic address that we should get a lynch, made after a paragraph with very specific call outs that had no points addressed at him.

I don't see me doing what he said I did.
I don't see him calling anything I did hypocritical.

Clarify?

IC fakeclaim + lack of cirrection + lack of defense + OMGUS reads + deadline + refusal to correct at latest opportunity.

Okay, first off - seriously now. Would you ever expect to be able to *fakeclaim IC*?
Like...how would that even work?
Who would even buy it?

Lack of direction...hardly a unique state in this game.
Lack of defense...I don't even understand the case on him, if I was him my defense would be 'where's the fire?' but I don't see this as a scumtell. Most scum are happy to defend themselves.
I don't think he's done OMGUS.
Correct what? The mason claim with himself or the IC fakeclaim?

The scummiest thing he did was not just give a straight claim answer.

But to even mention the IC thing like it was scummy is terrible. You might as well have called him scum for faking mason with himself. It was never a credible claim and would never have done anything to push a lynch off him. It is a big pile of null.

[Thor665]

Oh, and as far as your Anti thing goes - do you actually feel his last five or so posts with me qualify as functional interaction? <-- serious question, I'd love a serious answer.

[Thor665]

Vote: ZZZX

[Thor665]

I love how thor is like still playing blindly and votes without expinations.

What explanation do you think I owe you?

This post implies you weren't trying to catch scum before....

No - it doesn't.
And even if you thought it did...that's all you have to say about it to him?

[Thor665]

@Titus - I read it as 'I thought we caught scum, but I was wrong because Spring flipped town - now let's do it for real' Also, that would be beyond a bone headed thing to say if he was saying what you are saying you thought he said. I don't even get being quiet about it.

@ZZZX - I'll take the duck of my question as 'nope, nothing, I was just trying to deflect the wagon a bit without having to put in any work'

[Thor665]

I have been scum reading SS since the middle of the day before any wagon caught up to me and was voting him since then. Your Arguement is invalid.. again.

So got any freaking real reason of why I am scum?

No? Didnt expect you do.

What does your read on SS have to do with my case on you in any way at all?

I have already explained my case on you, it is a real reason, I understand that you do not agree with - I never expect you will.

[Thor665]

Are we still claiming polarity changes?

Not enough have been doing it for it to have much value by Day 3 methinks. That boat sailed a while ago.

[Thor665]

Nor I.

[Thor665]

wait you can change your polarity?

I thought you chose at the beginning and that was it? I figured it was a random thingy that might change it.

Some roles can, some roles cannot.
You have a thing called a 'Role PM' that might shed some light on this for you.

[Thor665]

Also did I translate you right at the end of the day yesterday? Thor was having issues with my translation.

...and, as expected, thor thinks its dumb. jeez, what a shock. since apparently mastin is the only one good enough for him (because mastin wasn't overtly calling him scum), she can be the one to talk to thor whenever. i'm finished.

You didn't actually answer the question.

[Thor665]

@Antihero - why did you find my actions and statements hypocritical yesterday? Specifically - because I see no hypocrisy there at all.

[Thor665]

It's also not scummy - but go ahead and use it as a case, it looks great on you.

[Thor665]

i don't see how you could even think of doing that as town.

[marquis]

What was my reasoning for doing it as scum...I figured no one would notice? Since, y'know, I was asking the guy who said it? Was that my plan?

[Thor665]

I was thinking you were going to sell that as a 'Thor isn't reading - ergo is scum' which, is a bad case, but at least has some teeth to it.
I am FASCINATED by the track you are taking though.

[Thor665]

I don't think your above comment makes sense.

You appear to accuse me of trolling, express agreement with my goal (even if you misunderstand my goal), and then also express bewilderment at my goal - none of which even comes close to explaining my scum strategy that you just voted me over, not even if taken in small bites to isolate each thought and not try to have them make sense together.

Can you help me out here?

[Thor665]

Let's go slow - walk me through how I figured my "misrep" would work since the person I was misrepping was the person I quoted and talked to. I mean, was my plan to hope he would forget he had answered...? Or was my hope that he would freak out but be unable to manage to point out that I'd snipped the post? Whih was I hoping for? Or is there a third option?

[Thor665]

I would submit your inability to accredit the action to a scum mindset is pretty much all the effort I need to produce in order to show the value of your case.

[Thor665]

It's more his inability to even consider the 'maybe Thor just didn't notice it, which would explain why when it was pointed out he just immediately went into the next question of whatever it is he's trying to do there' concept.
Honestly I'm mildly sad you're entertaining it too - it's beyond stupid.
I'll even toss out one of my assured Thor meta commentaries - I've literally never done a snipe and run misrep as scum ever.

To be perfectly honest - I've never seen scum do it ever either.
I'm guessing you and Doublade have...somewhere. But I haven't.

[Thor665]

Thor, I live in grey areas as scum. I do more with enhancing ambiguities than selective quoting. However, quoting out of context is pretty much the only way I ever get mislynched. That's what you did here to Necro. Intentional or not is bickering about alignment. I believe it was accidental but can I prove that? No.

Yeah...except I didn't quote anything out of context. i agree that's scummy and that scum do it and that I've seen that.
What I'm being accussed of is saying someone didn't do something they did do - by cutting it out of the post they did it in and otherwise quoting the post...

interesting

facts

about my wagon:
Its mostly made up from people who dont know my playstyle
Its not made of a case
People who know me are not voting me.
Made by people known to be scummy be everyone
Clearly a mislynch.

1. Maybe so - my vote has nothing to do with playstyle unless your playstyle is to lie though.
2. It has made a case. You have even claimed to have disproven the case that hasn't been made.
3. Maybe so.
4. We are?
5. It is? I wasn't aware you were obv. town to anyone.

[Thor665]

Thor, that's a tomatoes tomatoes argument. Inappropriate context can be done by selective quoting or midification. That being said, I don't see myself voting you cuz Doublade is.

Show me any scum doing it ever and I'll retract the issue.

[Thor665]

I politely refuse to do any sort of search for you cutting out a comment from a quote and denying it happened - I have no idea how to Ctrl+F that.

[Thor665]

Honey, it's best done subtle as a so and so said that without a quote. No two players play the exact same.

And that's the point - what I did was so lolwtfomg that it defies my comprehension that anyone thinks that I am scum who thought he could get away with the (mediocre) gain of doing what I did as a scum minded point.

Now why don't you actually reply to Necro's response that I translated Anti right.

Already did - am waiting on their reply.

[Thor665]

Are we really jumping on Thor for not including the entire quote?

I have done that before a lot, especially if it is a long ass quote and only one tiny part is what I want to address. And I was not scum for doing it. It was so people could clearly see what I was saying.

If you want me to convince me Thor is scum at least make a REAL case.

BTW I have not ruled out that he could be scum, it always takes a while with Thor he is just THAT good.

What they are arguing though makes...well, at least more sense than you are dinging them for.

Basically it went like this;

Necro: Blah, Blarg, Answer to A, Bingo.
Thor: [quotes Bingo] You didn't answer A.
Titus: Yes he did [quotes answer to A]
Thor: Follow up question to Answer to A
Necro: Pants on mah head!
Doublade: Thor is clearly scum for that!

So, yeah, I cut out the thing I claimed wasn't there. I'm not denying that either, I certainly did it. I'm just not sure what my scum angle was and deny there even is one which makes the sheeping of the pushing of me on it a scum action.

[Thor665]

Obviously i meant to delete that line - otherwise it wouldn't have been deleted. The question is whether I understood that line to be an answer to my question, or if I'd skimmed over it.
I still note that you are arguing stuff that doesn't explain why scum me would do that - again, I deleted his answer and then demanded his answer as a means of doing...what, exactly? Forcing him to say 'I already answered that - and quoting it at me? Or because I was desperate to give myself an alternate wagon than the highly despised and unsupported option of the ZZZX wagon i created and am still focusedly pushing?

I'm still trying to understand my motivation for it.
I don't think you've said that yet.
You have clearly established that I did what I've admitted to doing - I'll agree with that, if it pleases you. But I'd love to hear the scum case.

[Thor665]

@ Thor

Why

did you delete that line? It had to be purposely done. I'm baffled.

I trim quotes to hopefully spare people walls and also to make it very clear what I'm responding to.
As Doublade just noted in his weird attack post - I also went in and edited a quote in a quote to remove the hydraleak line - which I also perceived as not applying to what I was responding to.
I took the line starting with 'Thor' as the response to me (just whining that I was calling him dumb) and perceived the above line as a comment long the lines of 'oh, that thing we were talking about?' rather than 'that thing we were talking about - yes I agree with you' and thus trimmed it.

[Thor665]

And why are we even asking 'why do you trim lines'?

I mean...what other answer than 'to shorten/clean up' is ever going to be offered?

[Thor665]

@Mala - I don't think you understand what the Necro thing is about if you're asking it to stop. I'm not scumhunting them - if that helps clarify. I also still fail to see Titusscum, give me a short and sweet version? Also, your take on ZZZX would be nice. You haven't even mentioned it I feel. What's up with that?

.

[Thor665]

Titus pushing a one-woman wagon is something I attribute to town titus then again town titus doesn't "survival vote" a scumread

I do when no one even listens to me, so we have no shot of actually lynching my top scumspect.

I'm intrigued by this.

Titus - could you please link me to a survival vote you did as town?

Hi saki, looks like when you get votes you post whole sentences, maybe if we got you to L-1 you'd post content? What do you think?

My approval of this post knows few bounds.

[Thor665]

We are lynching me or lynching obvscum Saki. One or the other.

I'm town reading both of you.

[Thor665]

The only other option is no lynch really. Do you see speedwagon happening.

No, but I have low opinions of this game.

Also, I've forced no lynches before in this sort of situation. A no lynch is bad, town voting for town reads is worse.

[Thor665]

@Titus - hop on ZZX, it is barely a smaller wagon than your current one. I bet we can get a speed wagon on ZZX.

[Thor665]

Heck, or hop to DOublade, I'd be willing to help you with that gamble speed wagon too.

[Thor665]

Thor, quick, why is titus town?

I would counter with 'why is Titus scum'?

From my perspective Titus' logic isn't logic that feels like she's lying about it. You can argue it's bad...but that doesn't matter, town use bad logic too, the question is whether it is scummy, and I don't really see that. Beyond that I haven't particularly felt much Titus defense energy, which I would associate with a scum Titus, and a lot of what she has said and claimed she has been able to functionally back up (as example - the survival vote meta thing). Eh, I feel like she's trying to solve things, and the case on her is one I still cannot describe - and usually I consider that a bad sign when pushing for a lynch.

[Thor665]

Why does the sun set?

Because of the rotation and orbits of celestial bodies from a fixed perspective.

[Thor665]

But at least he self votes and has questionable reads - those are both pro-town....wait...

[Thor665]

RachMarie, Jordan_Downey, Saki , The Necromancers, Doublade , Eddie Fenix

I am pretty sure the above is an accurate representation of 'failing to help us with 13 hours to go' in this game.

Even ZZZX's self vote is mildly more helpful, and it's basically a declaration of scum or bad play.

[Thor665]

What is the aversion to stating the case when the guy leading the counter wagon has just made his 'Titus = town' and included the commentary of 'I don't even have the ability to describe the current scum case on Titus' in that answer?

Oh, right, you better just come in with an empty blandishment.
That's how you push a wagon.

[Thor665]

Hell guys, if I thought Titus was scum I could have had her at L-1 by now. The people whining about how "hard" it is are also *failing to actually push the case*.
It's derpy.

[Thor665]

And it just occured to me how mega-fail Necro has been this day phase.
Mastin went bye-bye.
Anti-hero basically whined that I thought he was being unhelpful...and then made an unhelpful vote and left without doing anything with it.
The heck?

[Thor665]

Hell guys, if I thought Titus was scum I could have had her at L-1 by now. The people whining about how "hard" it is are also *failing to actually push the case*.
It's derpy.

well good for you... I can only state what I have, and don't give anything about pushing a case. There has not been one "Case" that any soundness to it at all. Not a whit. So you can get someone to follow you on a say so, big whoop. It does not make you right.

Doesn't make me wrong either though.
Basically you're admitting you can't debate the point with me - I'm fine if your gut says Titus must go - but if that's the only thing you can say about it to bolster the wagon then you should NOT act shocked that the wagon is faltering.

[Thor665]

Are you going to bus your buddy to L minus 1 SKOT?

How is SKOT scummy?

[Thor665]

Still want Titus dead.

VOTE: zzzx

Do you still want ZZZX dead?

Because currently the wagons are 5 v. 6
Functionally your move assures that Titus is not the option today.

[Thor665]

Well "currently" at the point of your vote.
Now they're 4 v 7 which is why Titus is now basically assured not the lynch.

[Thor665]

@Mod - correct me if I'm wrong, but Necromancers are past prod time and then past theoretical replacement point as well - what is going on with that slot and its current prod/replace situation?

[Thor665]

Not to mention that ZZX flipping scum would pretty much conftown Titus and Saki to me.

And Thor fer' Smurf's sake.

@Titus - I find SKOT's playstyle to be more of a gut based one, so the lack of presented cases doesn't exactly scream out to me as an issue. Hell, Mala and Tiphaine can't even be bothered to describe their case either - or even extract a link or something. Meh.

@Doublade - If your reads are what you say they are, than, yeah, you've been painfully under performing for days. Please justify that weird join date thing about the Saki wagon though - where did that complaint even come from and who said anything even remotely intimating that as a reason not to vote Saki? The Saki wagon lost to the ZZZX wagon because I'm fething pushing the ZZZX wagon and people like you, who want Saki, are being lurksacks and spent half the day voting me without pressing a case on me or Saki.

[Thor665]

Hurm - Doublade's lynch goals for tomorrow don't include any commentary about ZZZX's flip and how it would or wouldn't affect them.

A vig shot there would amuse me.
Just saying.

[Thor665]

I found skot to be more logic based in the mini theme we played together.

As for Doublade, whatever gets you to bus tomorrow.

Could you provide a link to logical SKOT and explain the logic that is lacking here so I can see what you see.

As far as the second line - are you saying you're scum reading me and that you think Doublade is my buddy while you're voting ZZZX off my insstance? Because...whut?

[Thor665]

People also went uber quiet after that hammer.

[Thor665]

If we get 4 kills tonight this will be the best game ever.

Vote: Jon

[Thor665]

With Doublade's flip calling out Saki feels like you're not paying attention to stuff - ergo, scummy.

[Thor665]

Ok, I didn't really notice that. Does this mean you're seeing Saki as Town? Someone to keep around?

Yes.

As far as Thor's "not paying attention", I just got home from a weekend of camping/fishing/ drinking/ and eating. Then a long drive. I did notice two dead scum!!! that's pretty cool. And I'm dealing with a new, unexpected member of the family. A two year old Pomeranian. He's still in the demanding attention stage. So yeah, I'm a little distracted. Scum though, no.

The accuracy of my reads is exciting to me when it works.

Suspicion of Thor is going up he is still with us and yeah that is weird.

How many scum directed kills do you think we've had thus far?

[Thor665]

Because I'm alive - she literally said that.

[Thor665]

Well, calling ZZZX "backstage" leading from me aside - how did I end up in the town list in any case? You didn't note Doublade's push on me and that leaves the odd Rach mention of me today only as the towniest thing you're applying to me.

[Thor665]

I'm not in the mood to sheep Thor

I'm voting...you.

[Thor665]

And Thor for being alive.

And Rach for wanting to lynch Thor. (Ironic, no?)

[Thor665]

Eddie wagon makes more sense than Saki wagon.

@Rach - back up your move there. Are you saying that was a bus yesterday?

[Thor665]

How does this

Suspicion of Thor is going up he is still with us and yeah that is weird.

Become I am trying to LYNCH you now, Thor?

1. Thor is being thought of as scum - and thus it is weird that scum haven't targeted him for a NK...riiiight.

2. You're trying to lynch Saki, that's why I asked for your case on Saki - you have failed to provide it. Want to try again?

hi

bye

so how does titus and doublade flipping scum implicate me as their scumbuddy, again?

It doesn't.

But your utter uselessness makes for an easy case on you. Want to help sort that out? Or replace out so we can have someone who'll play the game in your slot?

[Thor665]

The game I played with Saki, he was Town, and acted like this all the way through. I haven't read any of his recent games. It's a possibility you're bussing him, or he's just Town

Link?

I posted links to town Saki games, Thor. His play here is clearly active lurking and not at all helping town, whilst in those games I linked, and the one that Titus linked, show a very different Saki the TOWN Saki. Where he actually tries to figure out who the scum are.

Okay.

@Saki - want to address that?

[Thor665]

@Rach - read on jon?

[Thor665]

What makes me an SK?

[Thor665]

Jon well I have him as probably town though misguided

Any particular reason for the read, or just gut?

[Thor665]

@Rach - what do you think of the current shift to Jon in light of your read on him?

@Jordan - your case is laughably bad. Why are you sheeping your SK read?

@ Thor Is Jordan your scum buddy?

I'll check my role PM and get back to you.

[Thor665]

First, no one is treating you like a scumbuddy and you are treating no one like a scumbuddy. This whole "Thor is scum for being alive" thing is so stupid, especially with this being functionally multiball now, that I can't see a universe where one of the people pushing that angle isn't scum. Thus Thor is not faction scum. The Thor attitude of push everyone who is suspicious and the SK attitude of push everyone that I can without looking scummy are close enough that I'm not sure there's a difference, so I can't use that to prove or disprove my theory.

I just have to call out this part of the theory though. All of the points are bad, but this one is nonsensical.

He has made a town case on me.
He is using it to argue that I am SK.

[Thor665]

Thor, you look like the SK because you've been going with the flow and no so much arguing multiple wagons all game as being happy to be on multiple wagons. The only strike against you I can see other than that is that you are alive. Honestly the only reason I'm not voting you right now is because I'm pretty sure I know who the SK is, I'm just not going to get a lynch on them today so it's not worth outing just yet.

[Thor665]

I'm unimpressed by your case wherein you're basically noting that I haven't hard focused (neither have many) and the old, 'Thor is alive' saw, which you should be well experienced enough to know is bunk.

[Thor665]

I'm not voting you, I don't think you're scum, I don't even think you're the SK, chillax mr. smurf.

You said the only reason you weren't voting me was because you thought you knew the actual SK - now you're saying you don't think I am scum of any stripe. Clarify?

[Thor665]

Thor, I haven't thought you're scum this game at all, you were displaying sk-ish tendencies that along with your level of play and current game state made me suspect you a bit, however nothing you've done remotely pings as scum to me, and since I think I have a bead on the actual SK voting you as SK would be silly.

Make sense?

Not when paired with the 'only reason I'm not voting you' comment.

[Thor665]

So you do scumread me then, because I'm an SK suspect except that there is a better SK suspect.

[Thor665]

My erratic playstyle is my pride. I quite value being random and hence unable to have meta used against.

Brilliant work - you have developed a playstyle that prevents people from town reading you, and also disinclines scum from ever killing you because you're functionally useless. I see your playstyle being immensely helpful to you when scum, and of no help whatsoever when you're town. Great work, why can't more people play like that? It's a shame, really, these goofy players and their idea of 'helping town', nothing much to take pride of there, really.

[Thor665]

Eddie Fenix, Xayzeck, The Necromancers

If any of these three are town players than I weep for our chances to win.

[Thor665]

No, you are being intentionally obtuse, Scum and SK play very differently being very different roles and thus you look at different thing when attempting to find them.

[Thor665]

Wow.
We are at L-3 with 5 days left.
Be still my heart.

[Thor665]

To dodge a prod shamelessly.

Are you competing with Saki for 'least useful'?

I nominate both of those useless slots for Vig/SK attention.
Necro too - that slot has become beyond useless.

[Thor665]

My erratic playstyle is my pride. I quite value being random and hence unable to have meta used against.

Brilliant work - you have developed a playstyle that prevents people from town reading you, and also disinclines scum from ever killing you because you're functionally useless. I see your playstyle being immensely helpful to you when scum, and of no help whatsoever when you're town. Great work, why can't more people play like that? It's a shame, really, these goofy players and their idea of 'helping town', nothing much to take pride of there, really.

Explain to me how an erratic playstyle prevents people from townreading me.
If I play a different way each game then people should be able to read me based on the way I'm playing that game and not the game I played previously.
I assume that players can read someone based on how they're playing in one game.
Someone who relies on reading people based off how their play in one game compares to another is Smurfing pathetic. Absolutely Smurfing pathetic.
So I don't give people like that room to read me.

This logic implies that you have play that can be read.
Your play this game is best summed up as "defensive lurk"
How should I read that?

[Thor665]

Thor's scum.

I forgot, which of us is OMGUSing the other?
I'll toss back though - you're *useless* and might be scum. But definitely useless.
You didn't even vote me = useless.
C'mon now, at least pretend to play the game.

[Thor665]

However the hell you want to. Don't tell me that you're Smurfing incapable of that, now.

I'm not saying I'm not, but you're the one who said we should be able to read you by your play in this game alone.
Can you describe how your play should look pro-town in any way at all?

still like the vote

Why?
I don't even know the case on Eddie and don't think you've said it...and that wagon isn't going anywhere and you aren't pushing it.

[Thor665]

You're the one who defended your playstyle and questioned my position of calling it pure poison.
I am trying to showcase to you that it is indeed pure poison on the off-chance that you are a) town and b) give a hang.

I will take your snippish reply as a mild bit of awareness from you that I am right.
Feel free to become more pro-town - I might become less frustrated and bothered by your playstyle that way.
I am sorry you find my commentary rude.
If you are town I find the way you are playing the game equally rude to everyone with a town PM.

[Thor665]

And tell me, really,

exactly

, what I am doing that makes me "rude to everyone witha town pm"

Well...how do you see any of your last 4 posts as helping the town wincon?
How about your last 10?
Last 20?

When do you think was your last serious contribution to the town?
That's how I think you're being rude.

[Thor665]

I'll repeat the general request for an Eddie case.

[Thor665]

That's a non-utility answer.

I will counter with 'I have read him as townish pretty much all game' So...would you like to zero me in on the scumminess, because if it's there I cannot see it.

[Thor665]

You are both fascinatingly terrible.

Saki is pushing a lie and insanity.
Perpetual is...backing the play?

@Saki - how is 'telling you' different than 'showing you' when I cite your iso?

@Perpetual - case. Go.

[Thor665]

Pere's reads and stances yesterday have bought him posture time.

[Thor665]

Is he not useless when scum?

[Thor665]

@ Thor Do you know how many times you've end gamed as Town?

No.

[Thor665]

Conversely, Thor ignoring it completely is also troublesome.

Are you kidding me?
I addressed his lack of a case the instant he offered it.

Then I went from L-6 to L-1 in the space of "this morning while I wasn't around"

This is called an obvious move by scum - what the hell are you smoking over there dork-head?

[Thor665]

Oh, Pere means his case, not the lack case.

Pere's case is derp mixed with paranoia - there's nothing to say about it because you're citing true things - the conclusion is wrong, but there's no actual way to argue that other than "I disagree with the conclusion and could have done it all smoother if it was an actual scum minded plot" A scum plot. I'll add, that doesn't match my meta as scum if I bother to try to defend. But...meh.

The case i dumb.
The wagon is opportunistic.
I'm too lazy to fight it hard for you all because I've been part of too many derp mislynches lately and just can't bring myself to care when bad play is happening other than to note it is bad play.
The wagon movement is obvious for what it is - I shouldn't need to even defend myself.

[Thor665]

Also, it is easy to read Doublade and disabuse yourself of the Thor=Doublade's buddy theory pretty easily.

[Thor665]

In poking back through to see if I got a response I went and looked at date/times. Holy CATS! did the thread get dead quiet once I went to L-1. Because, that's what a wagon on town looks like, right everyone?

[Thor665]

Normally I would, but even Titus was bussing it/them. Figured that he was the desginated bus of the scumteam, which lessened any towncred I might attribute to you for the interaction, and more easily explains his distancing from scum-you.

Also, I didn't read him in his entirety, but the section I read for my case above he never really pushes you for scum (see 3007), and his votes for you are just that- votes only.

I feel like you're looking brilliance in the face and are too blinded to see it.
Yes - I agree he did what you're saying he did. Extrapolate that for a second.

@ Thor Who is scum, and who is dumb Town on your wagon? I have a feeling there's scum on it, whether they're bussing or not.

I already ahve.
Heck, I'm even voting one of them.
Are you kidding me?
Stop fake-working. I'm not buying it.

[Thor665]

The wagon on you did build up fast.

If your town, scum is holding their breath waiting for town to hammer.

If your scum, scum is holding their breath to see if you get out of it.

Oh my gawd, really? Sure - yeah, that's what is happening.

[Thor665]

I disagree on this. It was actually very smooth- so much so that I'm not 100% convinced of it's validity. I could just be derpy and paranoid (not sarcasm BTW)

If you open your commentary with 'I disagree' and end it with a comment that is, functionally, 'I agree' then...I feel like my point is made.

I probably am. I miss subtleties all the time.

He could be trying to soft a connection between you to incriminate you after his flip.

But, I don't think he was ever anywhere near a lynch, so why bother?

And why pick you when there are much easier, juicier targets?

And who besides me ever looks at dead scum posts?

It's not a Newbie, and as I said, I don't care enough to argue it. If you can't see it now, then lynch me and learn. I am trying to get over the attitude of trying to teach constantly.
His actions towards me were blatantly not buddy/buddy and a quick analysis of the Titus ones should show you that. if it doesn't then nothing I say can change that.

[Thor665]

Hell, you read page 129 and still have your vote on me. You probably do need this lynch to teach you the lesson.

[Thor665]

You're right, you're not voting me - that's even worse, your case is being sheeped but not your vote. Yup, total town movement. No scum there.

Vote Jon with me.

[Thor665]

And I still havn't addressed your case - for anyone liking that as a scumtell.

[Thor665]

Yet, when I ISOd you, I noticed where I was the best wagon and the worst wagon, and everything in between.

I think you're scum posturing, so we're both guilty of what the other's accusing the other of.

No we're not, because I'm not suggesting that you should analyze your wagon for scum when you already have.
That's what you asked me to do.

[Thor665]

If he can it's pretty funny. Guess we'll see.

Vote: Ki-Gi

[Thor665]

If he can it's pretty funny.

It would also be conf town Pere...not that this would be a big shift for people, but...

[Thor665]

I disagree with that but town read Pere, so...sure.

[Thor665]

There is no such thing as 'regardless of what happens' in a Mafia game with a closed setup.