Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[jon_h61]

I'm reading through right now. I've read the first five, and last five pages, and ISO'd the three main wagons. I really hate no lynches, so if those who feel strongly about the wagons they're on could present their cases, that'd be much appreciated. I have a feeling at least two of them are on Town, but I

will

vote the least Townie read if needed to keep from a NL.

I'll pop back in, tomorrow, not sure exactly when, and add my two cents worth. I have a few suspicions, but I'm holding off on voicing them until I get more posts read through. While reading the ISOs I kept rabbit trailing, and I need to take a look at things chronologically.

[jon_h61]

I'll have to reread Jordan, I don't feel like voting either Aegor or Zayzec at this time. If I could, I'd be voting Rach right now. It's gut, but it says she's scum this time. You know that kind of a read that has alarms going off in your head. This is Rach as scum.

Not really liking Mastin half of Necro, mostly (but not all) for his reasoning for his push on Talah.

Not sure I like TSO, at least something he was pushing earlier, I was disagreeing with.

As long as Thor doesn't go off the farm, he'll be Town, and I'll give his reads a little more credence.

@ Jordan Give me a synopsis on why you shouldn't be Today's lynch?
Wow, too many people. Let's get the lynches underway.

[jon_h61]

Not feeling the Aegor or Dry-fit hate at the moment. No love either, so will lynch to avoid wasted day, but let's try a flashwagon on a replacement.

Vote: Jon_h61

vote titus with me?

or, get some more people and i'll vote jon with you

When I read the first bit about Titus, I was like, WTH? Then I scrolled down a bit and thought that's more to what I expected. Could you go over your scum read once more? I like your multiplying of words. I've seen you as scum before, and I'm pretty sure this is the case here. You're Talah scum read was so full of words, but there was little real case to them. What was it? A backward scum read?

I'm half surprised at Peregrine's scum read of my slot. Mainly because I've agreed with a lot of his posts.

I still want to lynch Talah-Jon.That one seems pretty straightforward to me.I'll get down to reading the people on the bottoms of leading wagons tomorrow.

Since it's pretty straightforward, it should be easily explained so everyone will understand. Please enlighten everyone as to how you know I received a scum PM.

Of all the wagons started Today, I'm least leery of Dry-fit.
VOTE: Dry-fit

Hopefully, by the start of Day 2, I'll have a better grip on who I'm scum reading, I have several players I'm already Town reading. To make it plainer, I'm

not

scum reading Aegor or Zayzeck. I'm unsure of Jordan. Soon, hopefully, I'll have the time to devote to the thread it deserves. Unexpected events in Meat World...

[jon_h61]

@ Peregrine I was taking that from my notes, which stopped yesterday afternoon. But posts I agreed with, 1272-you can have good reason to doubt Talah scum, they were Town, 1275- I think Rach is scum too, 1277- good reasons for Rach scum, and I'm wondering about Shiny too. Plus the other posts dealing with Rach. I thought your question to TSO in 1280 was a good one. I agree that Talah was harsh toward your slot 1283, and I'll have to go back and see why they blew a fuse. I agree that Thor should be making a case if he has one. Not being on the biggest current wagon isn't a scum tell.

I laughed at1285. Lie detector engaged, but it's kinda wonky.

I agreed with 1289, the first read through didn't make me think Jordan was scum. Shiny's list of his scum tells of Jordan were generalities Shiny can say were his opinion, but still make Jordan sound bad.

I disagree with Thor in 1401, I've gotten a piture of where you stand on several players.

I've been skipping around, and need to read the thread in order of posts. By Day 2, if I'm still around, I should be in a better place reading players, at least have opinions on everyone.

@ Zednek How does the order Titus reads the pages in have anything to do with her alignment? This is a scummy attack!

[jon_h61]

Could you make some (more, I guess) of this into something concrete please?

Probably not, ask something in particular and I'll give my opinion, even if it's weak.

[jon_h61]

Well, having read I actually agree with Dry-Fit that Saki's vote is bad. I mean there are actually things to talk about, and Saki's ignoring everything.

Saki's play is his normal play, with him (for me) it always comes down to a coin toss. He never does much to explain his reads, and naked votes a lot from what I remember of him. He goes around calling people scum without ever explaining why, from my experience with him.

[jon_h61]

I've been reading backwards

Have you ever done this before?

Frequently. I read the ISOs of the major wagons, ask for the cases (to determine social groupings) and fill in the rest as needed.

That sounds pretty normal for replacing into a game. I don't like this push by Zed.

@ Zed What's scummy about this? Is there only one way for Town to read the thread?

[jon_h61]

1552 by Jon there is weird to me. I think he needed to add the "in my experience" qualifier a few more times.

Have you played with Saki? I have. He makes short posts, lurks, seemingly randomly votes, and sometimes just plain trolls. All as Town. I meta'd him and that was what he did in the games I looked at too. I haven't read any recent games with him in it, but this looks typical Saki to me.

He acts the same way, no matter his alignment.

[jon_h61]

@ Jordan After reading the post again, yeah I did go overboard saying it was from my experience.

Doesn't make it less true, though.

All DF's first few posts dealt with Saki's naked vote.

Dry-fit Town reads Knife and Necro, and kind of scum reads Aegor 740

@ DF Why is not giving reasons, a reason to Town read anyone? If I can't see why someone wants me to vote with them, I probably won't sheep them.

Then he Town reads TD and continues scum reading Aegor. He asks MS about his read on my slot.

He explains to Starflower why he asked MS his question. (I could see it as scum trying to encourage a mislynch) It looks like something he could use against Starflower in the future, too

783 He asks his scum read why he scum read him.

864 Sounds innocent enough, but I could see scum asking this in a similar way.

943 He reiterates that he likes Necro's reads. Calls Aegor (his scum read) a good compromise lynch. As to his question, I haven't scum read Aegor yet. Asks Rach about her meaningless vote. I think it's because she's scum.

In 956 he says that he panicked, thinking Day end was closer. And that's why he was talking about a compromise vote. This actually sounds plausible.


I'll stop here, but overall I think he has the best chance of being scum, out of the wagons ran up Today.

[jon_h61]

@ Thor What are your plans Today? I started off liking your pushing wagons. But as the Day wore on, it started looking like you just wanted anyone lynched. Sure you said a few slots were scum, and a few were Town. But in your read list I couldn't find anything I felt I wanted

to

sheep. Who do you think most needs lynched, and why?

My only knowledge of you is from reading games when I was reading meta for someone else. I read one game where you were scum and you pushed lynches, and bullied Town, somewhat similar to Day 1 here. I don't remember who won anymore, but there are similarities I can see between the two games.

I can see Necro and I are going to be calling each other scum, probably until there's a flip. That's OK, makes things interesting.

I think Xayzek's Town.

More later tonight.

[jon_h61]

My lynch would put several of Necro's associative tells out of their misery, so I'm not particularly against it.

@ Titus I was spreading myself thin as to what time I had to commit to posts. Besides, I'm not completely convinced Thor is scum.

[jon_h61]

Hey, Jon, did you know Talah claimed polarity tracker?

No I didn't. Could you point me to what makes you believe this?

[jon_h61]

VOTE: Dry fit

mastin why go after a lurker when we have a clear wagon here. After all, we started one on this dude and then wham bam the one on Aegor went through the roof.

Mastin's made it pretty clear, no matter my Role PM, there's no way I'm Town. Because he

knows

this, he doesn't have to give

any

consideration that there's any chance of being wrong. I'm honored and all, that Necro thinks I'm so dangerous I need killing first and foremost. I just don't think it's for the right reasons.

What makes you think Dry fit is scum?

You can post ten times a day, and be considered a lurker in this game, but I do post less in Large games, (I usually avoid them), I'm usually busy playing catch up. There's soo many rabbit trails that need going down, to track down scum.

@ Mala I still want to know what made you erroneously think I'm a Polarity Tracker?

My top scum reads are Necro, Rach, Thor, Shiny and Mala at this moment. (insert legal disclaimer here)

This is my point of reference, for the record. Of note is that talah (jon) joined the Xayzeck wagon immediately after this.

I didn't like any of the Day 1 wagons, they were all on slots I felt were Town. I thought they all sucked air loudly.

Explicitly not. I'm lynching jon. That's not an information lynch. Nor do I think that lynching the players I mention (Dry-fit, Xayzeck, Jordan) is necessarily a good idea and I'm certainly not advocating it. However, I am pointing out the benefit from having done so, and I think that much should be obvious.

I think those three are probably Town, so I'm encouraged I'm on the right track when you suggest them as good lynches.

[jon_h61]

Mastin's made it pretty clear, no matter my Role PM, there's no way I'm Town. Because he knows this, he doesn't have to give any consideration that there's any chance of being wrong. I'm honored and all, that Necro thinks I'm so dangerous I need killing first and foremost. I just don't think it's for the right reasons.

see, you keep calling us scum, but we still see shit like this^

this implies you think we're town genuinely suspecting you, but you want to keep on taking potshots

Well, hell yeah. You're writing speeches about how this slot couldn't possibly be Town. Of course I'm going to bite back now and then.

[jon_h61]

I see where my lynch could be useful for Town, so I'm not going to argue against that. I'll answer questions that are clear, and ignore rhetorical ones.

I state my views as clearly as possible. So that, in the event of untimely demise, I'll be vindicated, and judged righteous. Sometimes wrong, sometimes confused, and on occasion, I actually get it right.

Eh, it sounded better in my head.

No, I don't know you're scum. I do know that you've been wrong on the lynch, and you're wrong on me.

I'm sure you've heard the old saying "If you can't dazzle with brilliance, baffle em with ...

If you make a Readers Digest version, I'll answer with a longer version of you're words in-thread that make me think you're not Town.

[jon_h61]

>are you fucking kidding? this has nothing to do with "lurking" and mastin has been over and over and over why the talah slot is scum this ENTIRE time.

Yes, you have. Go ahead, this slot is just helping scum make a smokescreen anyway. Plus I think Necro is afraid of my PR helping Town too much if it made it to the latter part of the game. Whether his fear comes from Town fear or scum fear, I honestly don't know. He

has gone out of his way

to nullify this slot. I'll accept defeat, just give me a blindfold and a last cigarette, please.

Town be aware of aggressive scum, they're out to kill you.

Reads haven't changed from last time.

Necro The playground bullie
Thor The hammer
Rach Sweet little Rach (She married into the Mafia)
And a couple of others I'm too lazy to look up right now.


I have just been annihilated by the mighty Necromancers!!! RUN!!! Before they get you!


,

[jon_h61]

I think Malakittens received a scum Role this game. (Slinks off into the corner to hide)

I'm borrowing a page of Saki's playbook today.

[jon_h61]

Hey, Jon, did you know Talah claimed polarity tracker?

Eh, was a joke, wanted to see how'd react.

Abousetly nothing I think. It's not one I have ever seen before. (Trying to take a trick from
The DgB/Kuribo book) >_<

VOTE: Malakittens

[jon_h61]

If anything it's in fact a lazy place to hold your vote.

Not if he thinks you're scum, like I do.

[jon_h61]

Hmmmm.

why null read for me?

(still dont see jon town)

I'm pretty sure you know why, or at least a big part of the reason why I'm scum reading you. Why, beside me scum reading you, are you scum reading me? Please don't go, Necro's case, because that's just a non-case.

[jon_h61]

I'm a very equal opportunity lyncher.

I love your enthusiasm. Kill em all, let Mod sort em out! No seriously, I have a gut Town read, we'll see if you've fooled me, in time.

a quick pedit I second the nomination!

@ ZZZK You've Town read both Thor and I, promising a post later to explain more. Is it later yet?

VOTE: ZZZK

At this time, I can't even fake a reads list. I have a few scumspects, and a group I think are Town. Even among them, I'm not firm on them yet.

As far as Necro, unless I see an @ directed to me, I'm skimming his posts. Burden of Proficiency aside, they were wrong on the lynch, very wrong on Talah, and wrong on me.

Dude man, if Titus is scum then it basically confirms Jon as scum in my eyes.

If/when I flip Town, how would that effect your read on Titus?

Fine, ignore the fucking slip, but I'm sure that Titus is scum based on behavior alone.

Actually, the last game I played with Titus, the lady who had the slot before Titus had said "help me bus

my partner

in thread. Titus won as scum, even though there was plenty said about the "slip". I'm not scum with Titus this game, though.

Everyone thinks Jon and I are linked.

Reading through your ISO, I get the feeling you're Town. Your posts read naturally, progressing with the thread. I can easily see the points you're arguing.

None of my prods are empty, hence why I am following up on my statements and wanting discussion. It absolutely is an acceptable argument.

Titus has been asking good questions, expecting answers that'll help sort slots. Call it WKing, or whatever, I think she's Town.

Necro, how the hell do you get off chiding me for not working with anyone and then blatantly ignore my posts.

That's Necro's strategy this game, have scum reads from the beginning and push them at any cost. They would be a good flip for association tells.

@ Jordan What did you figure out about your PR?

I still think Rach received a scum Role PM.

Tentative Town read on SKOT, truth is, I haven't been paying a lot of attention to this slot.

Next several days, I'll be busy, but I'll check in as time allows.

@ ZZZK What did you use to do your reads list with?

[jon_h61]

@ ZZZK Looking back over your reads list, maybe you're not Town reading us, your list is hard to follow. What are your reads for all the TBCs?

If Titus is scum this time, I'll probably start Policy Lynching you! JK

[jon_h61]

Kill me now, please! I'm to the point that if Necro's Town, I don't care any more. I want them to have to eat their words. This crap has to end, but it'll be worth it, just to blow their credibility to bits.

Come get me Necro, call all your dogs!
VOTE: The Necromancers

My goal now is to make them eat their words. Confscum my ass!!!

[jon_h61]

What crap jon? Calling me town is crap? Thanks.

Necro's crap reads, his calling me confscum, all the crap they're spouting, as if they knew what they're talking about. I think it's funny how they can spout all this b#llsh!t, but they don't vote me. If they were Town, and really thought I was confscum, does it make sense avoiding voting me? They're not, they're just creating confusion. and lining up future Town deaths. Please Town, don't let them take out too many Town slots before you believe it.


Anyone who'll defend Saki saying they have "reasons" for posts like "." is full of it. They're making this crap up as they go.

I think Necro's psycho-babble is just that, babble. I'm so jaded by them, I'd be tempted to vote with confscum in LYLO against them, even if they were Mod confirmed Town. If they were Town, I'd beg scum to let me join their team, just so I could try to kill them without a guilty conscience.

The Necro's are guaranteed, certified, 110% scum, deserving the fate that all scums deserve.

To those that think Necro

might

be Town, they will never get off their high horse while I'm alive. Just remember, after I flip, they have a very high chance of being scum. I know it's hard, but look at their posts for what they are. Just reads they miraculously KNOW, but have been consistently wrong so far. And lots of psycho-babble, and mumble jumble. Their reads are crap.

[jon_h61]

Holy AtE batman...

You get an encyclopedia thrown at you, then come and talk!

[jon_h61]

@ ZZZK You still haven't answered the question I asked you about what program you prepared them in. Where are your "to be continued" reads?

@ Mod V/LA through 7/2

Meat World things, not planned.

Right now, I think my votes on scum. So I feel like it'll be giving me dividends while I'm gone.

[jon_h61]

I'm back, and I'll read over everything and post a little later on today. I'm a bit busy right now though.

[jon_h61]

@ Everyone I'm sorry I went AWOL, but sometimes Meat World throws curve balls at you can't avoid. I think things are looking better, and if I'm still around Day 2, I promise to make up for it.

When I left, I thought I had my vote on ZZZX. I'm going to be a hypocrite and say I think ZZZx is who (of the two wagons would have a better chance of bring scum. I just don't believe his "my dog ate my homework" story. Though I haven't read the last several pages.

VOTE: ZZZX For now, I'm going to read the thread right now and catch up.

I started to read on the 3rd, that didn't happen. Then again on the 6th I read a little and started a post (nothing really wowing in it) at my dad's, but shit happens, and now I'm finally back.

The only thing I want to say is, I got a kinda frustrating PR, that would probably help a lot in later Days, so if someone out there might be so kind as a little help, I'd appreciate it. < my not so hidden breadcrumb.

I WILL BE AROUND, and reading almost all day. If anyone's around, I wouldn't mind discussing stuff.

[jon_h61]

After the hammer? AM I that far behind?

Sorry, didn't see it, I didn't get a preview window. Well now I'll get caught up.

[jon_h61]

Hey Titus, name three slots you think are Town. If Thor's around, I'd like to ask him the same too.

[jon_h61]

No, I opened the tab for the last page this morning. Then I opened several pages in their own tabs going backwards. I put the post in the first tab I opened (earlier this morning) and it went straight through. I didn't see several posts.

[jon_h61]

It just did it again.

[jon_h61]

The next vote will have to have a reason for a vote on me

How about you talk us through how you lost that reads list you promised us you had. You promised it to us even before the blanket post you made. What program did you use? Where were you saving it?

In theory all other lists were made up in the spot and called out on that. I guess I cant make all lists for *completed* games in the same time can I

This is time stamped July 2nd, 4:41 pm. He's explaining to Thor about his reads list.

I know I promised full reads today but I am posting from my 3g as my familly decided today is a good day for a field trip.a few hours... hopefully... I promise for real! I got a full readlist nearly ready in my pc I have been working on since yesterday.

June 24 9:56 am

Readlist coming after either 1 hour if I can finish the new one in that time of 5 hours where I will be home.

June 27 1:48 am
This is the one thing that makes me doubt my scum read. He mentions making a

new

list before saying in thread that "his dog ate his homework".

@ ZZZX If you want me to Town read you, what program did you put your list in? Exactly when (not time, but like, when you first woke up, or whatever) did you realize it was gone? Did you take any steps to try to recover it?

Spring Starflower has been lurking way worse than me. And his posts were pretty passive and had nothing like the things Metal Sonic would do. This is really driving me into trust Spring Starflower is scum.

This is him trying to get a now confirmed Townie strung up. Of course, there's been a lot of that going around. And I did read your explanation.

[jon_h61]

I'm amazed Saki hasn't been a major wagon in this game.

Saki gets away with it, I'm guessing by doing this as both Town and scum. My last game with him, I rode him hard, thinking he was scum, but he was Town. I read both his Town and scum games trying to figure him out, but he plays this way consistently. Go meta him, to see for yourself. Of course, this was quite a while ago. But I doubt he's changed up his play, after seeing this game.

If his wagon ever takes off, and if none of my scum reads had viable wagons going on, I'd vote him.

@ZZZX Wouldn't it be more in Town's best interest if you answered my questions. Hell, who knows, you might make a staunch supporter or two, if you'd take the time to respond truthfully. (if you're Town)

VOTE: ZZZX

Not liking Aegor's push on me. He just says my posts are bad but doesn't give any reason to think they're scum motivated.

@ Dry Fit You've expressed a desire for my head a few times, posts 1986, and 2232, but that was all.

What

makes you feel that way? Our Town's starting to get a little thin, so we need to be a little more careful with votes now, than we were earlier in the game.

[jon_h61]

@ ZZZX Let me make sure we understand each other. When you first were promising a reads list, saying it was almost done, you actually didn't have a read list? Then all your talk about it was just posturing? Your computer didn't eat it?

Why keep saying you were almost ready to deliver it? And the hardest part to swallow, why all this angst when you get heat over it? It's a little late to use this defense now, after it was suggested by Thor that that would have been the better option. I think you need to be flipped,

I

would have a few associate tells, depending on which way you flipped.

I wasn't so much concerned with how wowing your reads list was, but more on the question that if it ever existed in the first place. Your promising to deliver it multiple times, then the multi-post, followed by the angry replies over being questioned about it, doesn't make me believe you'll flip Town.

[jon_h61]

SO what the **** should I do? Its not my fault that I Always in 90% of my town games I get read by scum because I play by meta of other sites which is considered a scumtell here.

Who, exactly, do you think did this? What do you mean by "meta of other sites"? Why do you think they see it as a scum tell?

My scum read comes from the faking the read list, after saying it was almost done, then getting mad when you're called on it. I hope dishonesty isn't the "meta" you talk about.

[jon_h61]

I changed Polarity, but not by choosing the Polarity. Someone else made that choice.

[jon_h61]

@ Malakittens Could your plurality issue have to do with the phrase "anti-Town factions"? That can be multi-ball, or a scum team and SK, or a big scum team. Not something I'm going to waste time on worrying about it, until we lynch some scum. I'm sure it was worded that way to blur the issue.

[jon_h61]

@ Mala and Peregrine My Polarity is affected by someone else's decisions. But the bad news is, I screwed up. I went back and checked the PMs. I didn't change. I can't explain the screw up, I don't know why I thought I was the other Polarity. The worst part is, I haven't changed Polarities since the start. A brain fart moment.

@ Mala If we're the same Role, then there's less chance of you being scum, but in "Imaginary Fights", yessire and I had the same named Role, but yessire's was a scum Role. So that alone doesn't let you off the hook. A question for you, have you voluntarily changed your Polarity this game?

[jon_h61]

Yeah, I agree with Tipthaine, I have to miss posting when I'd rather be, sometimes, because of Meat World. It happened in this game already. I don't have any way of posting, except my laptop. Occasionally I'm away from it and have no other way of checking the game. Though I can think of a few good reasons that make me think Necro's scum. I'd have to say post counts, in this case are null. But if you want to expand, that's OK too.

I'm Town reading PV, and leaning Town on Tipthaine. Thor's still Town.

I'm scum reading ZZZX, and Rach, I love you, but you got a scum role this time.

[jon_h61]

@ Mala Our roles aren't the same.

@ Titus I'll ISO them next, I don't really have a read on them yet. I've done several ISOs this afternoon, and hope to go through several more tonight. Replacing into a large is a lot more of a chore than any of the other type of games, and I applaud anyone willing to do so. I'm

finally

starting to feel confidant in some of my reads.

But I'm going to have supper first, we're having stuffed tomatoes.

[jon_h61]

Why are you asking me this considering that I'm not pushing you at the moment?

A question I had from reading ISOs. I was posting at the time anyway.

@Titus It's going to take some time to fully answer your request. I'm wiped out, we're going to bed. Good night

[jon_h61]

(I love it when people try to use my own MD theory against me. It's fun watching their cocky smirks turn to horror as what sounded like a brilliant idea full of irony is revealed to be a wakening of a slumbering beast that is preying in a turf they are intimately familiar with, against prey that just now realizes they're in hostile grounds, and they realize that they had absolutely no clue what they were up against.)

I'm working through other things right now, nothing to do with Necro. I'm trying to answer one of my scum reads (Rach) as to why I've been scum reading them, practically since I replaced in, but this post caught my eye, and I couldn't help but chuckle at it. Just wanted to share some creative writing I liked. Necro's good at painting word pictures.

[jon_h61]

Why do you think I have a scum role Jon? If it is based on activity then you are free to go stalk the other games on site. Do you think I have scum roles in ALL the games ?

Developing diabetes is not a scum tell, sorry try again.

I almost never consider absences due to Meat World scum tells. If someone goes silent after being a frequent poster,

and

getting a little heat, then I might. Rach is doing one of the best jobs of

active

lurking I think I've ever seen. Like riding a raft through rough rapids. I just can't quantify her posts into a Town mindset.

It's more the tone of your posts, added to your voting history. You don't really look like you're out after scum. I may go back and cut quote strips to better show what I'm talking about. I admit, I could be wrong, but this is my stance right now. I'm glad you're

almost

Town reading me and all, but you might be, just to try to get me to look elsewhere for scum. Remember? Those with scum roles are deceptive.

One last thing I thought about right before I hit submit, weren't you scum reading ZZZX?

Spoiler:

Lets' take Day 1 first. (Sorry Titus, I'll get to Doublade soon, I hope.)
Rach's first six posts are throw away posts, no big deal, it's the start of the game.
245 talks about the Polarity in Bulba's vote counts with Doublade. not sure of any relevance.
TMCT is her first scum read, by now she's Town read several slots. Necro, Shiny, and Talah, and she Town reads SKOT in her next post.
In 939 she votes her "weaker" scum read, because she thought Pere was going to be replaced. When Thor questions her about it she says

So I should not vote one of my scumspects just because they only have a vote on them which is probably a bus vote at that?

But what I'm seeing is someone who's trying very hard

not

to rock the boat, attempting to be "the voice of reason".
She moves her vote to Pere since he's staying in 1033 from TMCT. With her vote, TMCT had two votes, she was the only one on Peregrine. This is close to the deadline when we should be working hard to come to a consensus.
Now she's scum reading Pere and TMCT, which I'd like to point out, she's never given

any

reason for thinking they're scum. She never states any reasons for her Town reads either.
In 1263 she finally gives reasons for her scum read on Pere.

RachMarie Stop ignoring me, and stop making useless votes. If you're unwilling to see Xayneck die, then join the Jordan wagon

This prompts a vote from Rach in the next post.
1365 finds her voting Dry Fit with Doublade, Saki, and Xayzeck. 1366finds her asking Thor and Mara to join the wagon, 1367 she says Pere is more his Town self. No explanations, and no follow ups.
1450 gives her reasoning for her reads, But I don't understand the relevance, or what she's trying to show!??
She spends several post complaining that the Day is almost over, but that's about it aside from some joke posts.


And so ends Day 1.

Doublade is next, I done a lot of foot work already.

[jon_h61]

I have played with you, several times, and I think I even once scum read you (through the first portion of the game) when you were Town. In all my "evidence", I never used lurking, or more precisely, not posting, as a reason. I too have health problems, and they suck!!! Outside of this game, I emphasize, but in this game, I'll still wager you're scum. I'm not voting you, yet, and stretching your neck isn't high priority, but please, glance through my spoiler and correct me on how I'm seeing things wrong. Since you know me, you should know I'm quick to admit mistakes, and will change my reads when they're proven mistaken.

I'm going to bed, g'night all.

[jon_h61]

@ ZZZX I accidentally made a

huge

wall out of your ISO, it's ready to be posted, but it's pretty big. This snip is the last part of it, and hopefully if I get what I want, I won't need to post the whole thing.

This here would go a long way to proving you're Town.

interesting facts about my wagon:

1

Its mostly made up from people who dont know my playstyle

2

Its not made of a case

3

People who know me are not voting me.

4

Made by people known to be scummy be everyone

5

Clearly a mislynch.

1

I'm one of those who don't know you, but what exactly does not knowing your play style have to do with me (and others in this category) scum reading you. My read has nothing to do with play style. It came from your actions in game.

2

Several of us think it's a case, instead of trying to shut us down, you'd been better off explaining things better, and a word of advice, try not to let games blend together in your mind. I've a sneaking suspicion that's what started this whole mess.

3

Can you name names to prove it?

4

This sounds like posturing, and if you actually believed it, wouldn't it be better to spend more energy trying to show "those that know you" that you're right in scum reading "people known to be scummy be everyone"?

5

Only a flip, at this moment, is proof that it's a mis-lynch.

@ Titus Doublade is next, I doubt I can not turn it into a wall. I'll try to make a clear and concise tl/dr to go with it. First I need to catch up on unread posts.

[jon_h61]

I politely refuse to do any sort of search for you cutting out a comment from a quote and denying it happened - I have no idea how to Ctrl+F that.

Way back in early 2012, I accidentally missed a bit of a quote. It wasn't important, and didn't change the meaning of what I wanted to convey. Scum jumped on it, and pushed it all the way to my first lynch. Someone will have to show clearly what scum Thor would have been trying to accomplish by missing it before I'd even consider the credibility of this tell. (I've got my own homework going on.)

@ Titus Good luck with the move. I hope everything goes smooth for you. Keep an eye on the movers, who knows, one of them might be scum.

[jon_h61]

Way back in early 2012, I accidentally missed a bit of a quote. It wasn't important, and didn't change the meaning of what I wanted to convey. Scum jumped on it, and pushed it all the way to my first lynch. Someone will have to show clearly what scum Thor would have been trying to accomplish by missing it before I'd even consider the credibility of this tell. (I've got my own homework going on.)

This is me opening my mouth (keyboard) before I looked at the situation being discussed. They're not the same situation, but what scum would be trying to gain is beyond me. The mistake (?) is so easily discovered.

@ Thor

Why

did you delete that line? It had to be purposely done. I'm baffled.

[jon_h61]

@ Xayzeck What's wrong with a Saki wagon? Has he done anything you think is particularly Town? If his wagon grows enough that it looks like it'll go through, I'd be willing to help push it through.

IF

none of my scum reads look to be strung up.

@ ZZZX I'm going to assume you don't particularly care if I scum read you. You haven't done much to shake my belief that you're scum. I know you're tired of the reads list question, so, how about you just give us your top two scum reads, with reasons. For clarities' sake, you say everyone is scum reading you because you didn't make the promised read list. That's simplifying the issue and ignoring the main points

I'm

seeing that makes me think you're scum.

May I engage in a little setup speculation? In my role PM it does say, until all anti-Town factions. With two NKs last Night, that tells me there's at least one scum team, duh, with a possibility of a SK, Vig, or another scum team. The bad thing is, we have to start hitting

any

scum before we get any facts toward my speculation. My main worry is, how long do we have (in Days) before we have to start worrying about LYLO? If it's one big scum team, say of five or six slots, we may only have a Day or two before we enter the danger zone!

@ Titus Still ongoing with the Doublade read. The reason it's taking so long is because Marquis has been right on flips so far, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of her posts. What, beside wanting Bulba to hurry up and close the thread, should I be looking for?

Deb is pushing toward the door, she wants fish for dinner tonight, and some crappie does sound good! If we catch enough, I'll invite you all over for a fish fry. Wish me luck!!!

[jon_h61]

EBWOP is pushing "me" toward the door, and rather forcefully too!

[jon_h61]

why are we derailing

and switching to a saki wagon

why

I'm not moving my vote yet. But earlier, you said,

BEHOLD THE READLIST OF NOT VERY AWESOME NOR VERY USEFUL!
towny people:
1. Shiny Hydreigon (Wisdom/Notscience/Ms Marangal)
2. Doublade (Marquis/Caledfwitch)
3. Saki
6. Spring Starflower (Metal Sonic/Sakura Hana)
12. Nachomamma8

useless is a scumtell? then why isn't saki in the list?

This was said as a defense of yourself.

Saki is just a "wtf are you even playing this game you're worse than me, and I'm pretty scummy myself"

A response to ZZZX.

If you're going to push Saki/Xay scumteam, you can fuck off.

How about I'm trying to figure

you

out. I appreciate the fact that you're not wanting the ZZZX wagon to fall apart, I mainly wanted you to state a clear read of Saki.

Also, earlier you said naked votes didn't equal scum, in regards of Dry Fit's vote on Saki. Then you complain that Peregrine voted without an explanation.

Let me quote one more thing that I feel applies to this subject

i think it was less important to me that we shared scumreads, and more important to me that I should figure out what he was thinking, or what he saw so I could better understand his mindset

This can be said of me, to you.

There are several other things that look cog-dis that make you seem suspect, but if you want to vote with me on my scum reads, I'll not complain.

[jon_h61]

I'm wondering about this a little. Earlier you asked me why I suspected you because you were concerned that keeping every townie alive is important at this stage in the game. But now you say you don't mind Saki being lynched even if he is town?

I won't go as far as calling this a misrep, but I've never said I don't mind Saki's lynch, even if he's Town. I have said (for me) his alignment is a coin toss, and I don't like the issue of him being near LYLO. I sure wouldn't call him a Town read. I'm not sure what asking you for clarification and Saki's alignment have in common?

@ PN What I did, was, I kept current on recent posts, while reading chunks of the game, working backwards to the beginning. Then I read ISOs, jumping back to check out anything that I didn't understand and needed more to better "get" scum reads and arguments that were happening. The main thing is trying to keep current so you don't feel lost in the present IMO.

[jon_h61]

I'm going to be

v/la today

. I'll get back into the game tomorrow.

[jon_h61]

I'm v/la today

, I'll get back into the game tomorrow.

[jon_h61]

If Saki's telling the truth on this one

I'd bet at least two and maybe three of the people on Saki right now are scum

. Titus/ZZX is likely, with maybe a third, though that seems too good to be true.

This is the main reason I haven't placed a vote on Saki. Aside from the fact his play is exactly the same as his Town game the last time I played with him. Saki's still just a coin toss for me. I'm scum reading Rach, ZZZX, Dry Fit, and Malakittens (who mentioned voting Saki). It makes me think the wagon is poison, no matter Saki's play.

IF

Saki were to flip scum, then I'd have to readjust reads, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

On Titus' wagon I'm uncertain on SKOT, and PN. If it comes down to it, this is where I probably would vote out of sheer dislike for the content of the Saki wagon.

I'd rather others would come back to the ZZZX wagon. I think it has the better chance of actually flipping scum.

[jon_h61]

@ Titus When it gets down to the wire, what should I do? Refuse to vote anyone? None of

my

scumspects look even slightly likely to have wagons. I've made my cases, I'm not popular enough to have sheep. The slots I've made cases on call me scum, but if they were so sure I'm scum, shouldn't they be voting me. Or at the least trying to make cases on me. Better than "jon likes all popular wagons" or whatever it was Dry was trying to push.

Rach kept trying to shrink my case on her down to lurking, which

never

was part of my case. Malakitten's case is more circumstantial, and I might be wrong on her. Only time will tell. I'm still leaning scum on her.

ZZZX is still the slot I feel is most likely to flip scum, so again, if forced to compromise (as a deadline vote) I would be more willing to vote Titus because I feel the wagon on Saki is toxic. Too many of my scum reads are on it already.

All I ask from Town, is, read what I've actually said. Then compare it to what my accusers are trying to twist it to. I ask you, who needs to distort facts?

I'm sorry Titus, but at the end of Today, if I can't get anyone to listen to me, and your wagon is still viable, I might be forced to make that decision. I'm sort of in the same boat as you, in that no one is taking my cases for scum seriously.

[jon_h61]

I've recently gotten home after a nice camping and fishing trip. I want to check on something, and I'll be back around.

I think it's about time to have Saki's flip. No sensible Town would want this big of an enigma at the end of the game. But the bad thing is, he's still a 50-50 flip. With no association tells, really.

[jon_h61]

My utility ended long ago, so I'm disposable now. What's your reason for the vote?

[jon_h61]

Ok, I didn't really notice that. Does this mean you're seeing Saki as Town? Someone to keep around?

[jon_h61]

Someone I'd like to hear from is The Necromancers. I'm not sure what's up with them.

As far as Thor's "not paying attention", I just got home from a weekend of camping/fishing/ drinking/ and eating. Then a long drive. I did notice two dead scum!!! that's pretty cool. And I'm dealing with a new, unexpected member of the family. A two year old Pomeranian. He's still in the demanding attention stage. So yeah, I'm a little distracted. Scum though, no.

[jon_h61]

I'm still scum reading Rach's slot, no matter her counter argument. I really, really think she'll flip scum. Unfortunately Malakittens' flip blows away some of my theories of a relation (scum) between her and the Necros'. I'll throw down my best guess for the scum team later. I'm not going to spend time on it tonight, I'm bushed.

I'd like to hear anything from the Necromancers. Nudge, Nudge.

[jon_h61]

Still the same Polarity.

[jon_h61]

Town
TiphaineDeath
Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Jordan_Downey
Dry-fit
PeregrineV

Scum
RachMarie
The Necromancers
Eddie Fenix

Everyone else falls in the null, or I'm confused category.

Back at the beginning of the game, I mentioned having doubts about Thor's alignment. Thor mentioned (bragged) that he works hard to make the two indistinguishable. And I believe him. Him surviving into the latter Days worry me too. Bringing up Burden of Proficiency, Thor hasn't been any more accurate than me. I don't know if he's scum, or not. The only case I have, is, the longer he's alive, the more likely he's scum.

The Necromancers have pulled out of the game, and I don't know for sure what that's about. But I get this niggling they might be Town. Malakittens flipped Town, they were right on ZZZX, and a few other things make me think I've been wrong on them. I hope I'm wrong on them. Their interaction with Titus makes me want to lean Town on them.

Saki's another unknown. Saki's not even going to try to scum hunt, he's just going to be esoteric the whole game. If I was a vig, he'd be a target.

Gut says Perpetual Nonsense may be Town, but I don't have anything solid to back it up.

I really get the feeling EddieFenix is Town. His interactions with Thor, as well as with Titus and a few others make me believe I'm right.

I've been so far off this game, I don't think I'll be sorely missed as the game goes on. But anyone who wants to scum read (vote) me, I'd appreciate it if you'd make your reason for voting me clear. Even if it's just "sheeping Thor". It'll help the rest of Town pick out the scums hoping to ride a mislynch without drawing too much attention to themselves.

@ Rach I'll get around to reading your GTKAS, and I really, really do empathize. Though I don't have diabetes, I do deal with ongoing health issues that are unpleasant, and time consuming. Growing old, sometimes, sucks. I'll give your slot another look over, and I'll try to be open to being wrong.

I haven't read the thread through since back when Thor and I were the only ones voting ZZZX. I don't even know what happened to turn the Day back around to him. So, I'd best shut up and go read the end of Yesterday. Who knows, there may be things in that, that will make parts of this post obsolete.

[jon_h61]

And Thor fer' Smurf's sake.

Tis the price of fame. Hell, I've never played with you, yet even I know how this works. I think I pretty much played out your whole playbook on it, sight unseen.

I see where Doublade was pushing for a Saki lynch, so maybe Saki gets left alone by me.

I'm not in the mood to sheep Thor. I'll probably just hang back and let the cards fall where they will, for now.

[jon_h61]

Eddie fenix is on your scum list but "I really get the feeling EddieFenix is Town. His interactions with Thor, as well as with Titus and a few others make me believe I'm right." was a quote from that same post..... Really dude?

Really. I made that post over a few hours this morning. I pulled up his ISO to get a better feel for him. It was actually you calling him scum that made me ISO him. I'm pretty lost right now, so I might as well admit it and do what I can to try to make it better. The only way I know is read ISOs, look over player interactions, etc.

In my defense, I haven't seen anyone doing all that great in getting scum lynched.

@ Thor I know.

[jon_h61]

Also@ jon, if you're lost you should sheep me and vote rach.

She has been my longest running scum read. I didn't like how she kept trying to say my case was "lurking" even though it never entered into my case. And the AtE was thick. But I can understand some of it. Getting that kind of news would make the best of us emotional. And, I've had an embarrassing blowup of AtE a few times myself. BUT my scum read preceded both the bad news, and the "lurking".

I don't remember what all was in my case on her, and she

might

be right, she might be Town. It makes me almost feel bad to do this, like I was kicking a puppy or something... but

VOTE: Rach

This is the closest thing to a sure feeling I have ATM.

[jon_h61]

I've started a post, then deleted it, rinse and repeated several times today. I haven't been at such a loss in a long time, if ever. I'm also going to be extremely busy until late tonight, so I need to post

something

right now.

Titus tried to make a connection to me earlier when she tried to make it appear she was coaching me. She also bussed her partner Doublade.

Scum could be setting up Thor for a mislynch, but if so, they're being extremely cautious with it.

Saki has a bigger chance of being Town, not by anything they've done, but by Doublade pushing for their lynch. I don't remember how Titus saw them, but I'll check later.

Those I have no intention of voting Today, Tipthaine, Peregrine, and SKOT. Probably not Jordan Downey either.

I'm glad The Necromancers are back, and I'd like to hear from them, even if it's only to call me scum.

Eddie, Dry Fit, and Xayzeck are all null to me. This is also the priority of the order I'd feel about voting for them.

I think Rach is scum, back pedaling.

Perpetual Nonsense fits somewhere, but ATM I'm not sure where.

This is the best I can do now, at least it gives some clue of where I stand.

As for a scum read on me, The Necromancers made an encyclopedia, Titus connected herself to me, and Thor has said my not noticing Doublade was wanting Saki lynched was scummy. Also I was on ZZZX's wagon, and firmly on it. Is there anything else (from anybody) that they think makes me scum? I'd be open to discussing it.

[jon_h61]

wait are you suggesting that both Doublade and I are bussing Saki, Jon?

The game I played with Saki, he was Town, and acted like this all the way through. I haven't read any of his recent games. It's a possibility you're bussing him, or he's just Town

There's too many slots to go all out meta for this game. I know your meta, and yours seems off. It could be Meat World issues I'm seeing, but even then, why say you're more suspicious of Thor, but stop shy of calling him a scum read? It's the little things like that that keep me scum reading you. I realize that's the pot calling the kettle black, but it's the way I stand right now. If it makes you feel better, my scum read on you is wavering.

If you or Thor ever flip, I'd almost guarantee the other one will be a different alignment.

I

want

to go through and see who's scum read who, and check it against the voting record. Also I'd like to see who's Town reading who, and check out each scum case presented. I just need the time. Summer is the worst time to play Mafia for me. I just don't have the time like I do in the other seasons.

[jon_h61]

@ Thor It was Open 544, Saki endgamed. He was a Town Vigilante. I called him scum most of that game for play just like he's been doing here.

[jon_h61]

I'm a little busy today, but here's my suspicions. I think Thor is probably the SK. I believe Jon and TD to be a scum team with possibly 1-2 more members. Not members of that team are Eddie and Rach based on their pushes today. I do have reasoning for both of these theories, but I'd like to see reactions first to gauge how accurate my reads are.

I'm leaning towards voting Thor, just to reduce the number of killing roles.

I believe Tipthaine and I are on the same team. I don't know about Eddie.

What makes you think Thor's a SK? If you truly believe Tipthaine and I are scum, wouldn't it make more sense to vote one of us over someone you think

might

be a serial killer?

pedit I started this post last night, but didn't get around to finishing it. I can't quite follow Jordan's logic, but the one voting me who seems to just be following along trying to sneak onto a mislynch is, Dry Fit.

VOTE: Dry Fit

@ Jordan When I flip Town, are you still going to go after Tipthaine? What beside his supposed connection do you think makes Tipthaine scummy? I'm not seeing it. Could you flesh out your theory some more, I'm not convinced it's a Town push. As far as the "This whole "Thor is scum for being alive" thing is so stupid", and "that I can't see a universe where one of the people pushing that angle isn't scum.", prepare to eat your words.

@ Dry Fit Since Jordan's logic is "somewhat plausible", you give the impression you don't agree with all of it. My first question to you is, what's your read on Tipthaine? What are you going to do after you've been proven wrong? What's this push on Eddie you've put in the middle of your case on me, have to do with me?

My impression, if Jordan, Dry Fit, or Rach ever flip scum, I'd start looking hard at the other two.

I'm going to be in a boat, on the river, fishing, most of the day. I'll try to find a little time to check on the thread, I don't want to hear silly things like, he's gone quiet, must be scum.

@ Thor Is Jordan your scum buddy?

What's the deal with The Necromancers? They must be having a hard time crawling up out of their graves!

[jon_h61]

BTW if you want to know why early on I was scum reading Pere, it was the way he was posting and the attitude he had felt very much like games he was scum in. Later his posting style did improve and appeared more like the towny Pere. So I felt like I could put him in the town pile .

What's your read on Peregrine? He was your biggest scum read for the longest time. In the one post that you described your scum read, you really didn't say anything. You just alluded to some previous game, and a feeling. What exactly changed your mind on him?

[jon_h61]

Here are some of Doubleade's posts about Jordan

he's both in my "i don't care" pile and my "i kind of hate mastin's 'case' against you" pile. i want to say i'd be ok with the lynch but i want the xayzeck lynch and dry fit lynch so much more for me to be willing to compromise on that -or- aegor

don't drag me into this shit i distinctly remember saying i had bad feelings about and didn't like the jordan lynch because of how it started in the first place

lol jordan is town

jordan is town. aegor is town. please lynch xayzeck we were so close to it

more importantly as scum jordan is apparently much more into the game and less detached. they're making much longer and more involved posts there; it makes sense with heads being the kinds of players who prefer scum to town. jordan is active now, but it feels like they've stopped caring as much about this game.

jordan is town but it's going to end up being an "wow lots of people like this wagon time to sheep it" lynch.

jordan is town, but he was forced to out himself in order to derail the wagon on him

because jordan totally didn't already claim with a "lock" keyword earlier right

Let's look at what Doublade said about Saki.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: saki

quack

Sorry! I'll try to make occasional short posts (pretty much same as always) and not dumb silly dodges like Saki.

hihi

SAKI I SWEAR TO GOD

[caled]

UNVOTE: VOTE: saki yeah, titus is town.

To add insult to injury, a totally viable and justifiable Saki wagon didn't even get more than 5 votes, while ZZZX is probably going to be lynched today. ZZZX has actually done things and played his usual town meta, while Saki is... well, you know. I don't even know or care anymore if he's town or scum, but why is the ZZZX wagon so much better than his? Because Saki has an earlier join date or something?

Doublade never pushes Saki (really) until the end of Yesterday. They called Jordan Town long and loud though.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jordan Downey

[jon_h61]

Eddie Fenix, Xayzeck, The Necromancers

If any of these three are town players than I weep for our chances to win.

QFT

[jon_h61]

Wow.
We are at L-3 with 5 days left.
Be still my heart.

Get me a little closer, and I'll tell you my PR. And why I said my usefulness was gone long ago.

It's a sad tale. It has a moral.

Hopefully Town'll pull a miracle out of the hat yet.

I'd bet Xayzeck is scum too, just now crawling out of the woodwork.

[jon_h61]

I'm still believing TD and Peregrine are Town. Thor and Saki, only their flips will tell.

Please don't kill me until after The Necros' get replaced.

Rach has been downgraded to a maybe.

Still thinking Jordan's scum. Xayxeck could very possibly be scum, he hardly shows up, and doesn't say much when he does.

PN is competing with Saki for the nonsense award. A coin flip on this flip too.

And tell me, really,

exactly

, what I am doing that makes me "rude to everyone witha town pm"

Well...how do you see any of your last 4 posts as helping the town wincon?
How about your last 10?
Last 20?

When do you think was your last serious contribution to the town?
That's how I think you're being rude.

[jon_h61]

I didn't mean to submit that yet. I was wanting to ask Thor if he glanced at the game that he asked me for earlier? The way you and Saki are going at it reminds me of my first meeting with Saki, we were both Town BTW.

[jon_h61]

Thor is trickier- let me know if you want my case why he is scum.

I'd be interested in what you have to say. My impression of Thor so far (this is my first time playing him) is he's a scummie-ish Town player, if that makes sense to you. He pushes lynches, a lot. That's good Town. But, it seems to me, he's a little too indiscriminate.

I have a respect for that myth that the longer Thor's alive, the better the chance he's scum.

@ Thor Do you know how many times you've end gamed as Town?

[jon_h61]

I believe Peregrine is my most trusted Town read. Even more than Tipthaine.

I saw a few associative tells on some slots, I didn't save them, but I'm going to put it up soon, with the quotes they came from. I still want to talk to this replacement before anything drastic happens.

[jon_h61]

You know, after clicking through some of those links Peregrine gave, and what I read earlier today, I'm ready to OMGUS Thor, but I still think Jordan is scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Thor

I'm grilling T-bones out, and have some more chores, but I'll get that done. Early tomorrow, at the latest.

[jon_h61]

The fact that he is so inconsistent with his reads and provides no reasoning for his switches leads me to think Jon is scum.

In the one post where I was inconsistent with the Eddie read, I made that post over a period of several hours. I added to it as I was reading different parts of the thread. The reason I even mentioned Eddie again was because TD had scum read him. I went back and read Eddie's ISO and added the comment about him not looking that scummy.

Any other inconsistencies you'd like to bring up, I'll answer to the best of my abilities, if you're interested.

@ Thor Who is scum, and who is dumb Town on your wagon? I have a feeling there's scum on it, whether they're bussing or not.

[jon_h61]

I already ahve.Heck, I'm even voting one of them.Are you kidding me?Stop fake-working. I'm not buying it.

Yet, when I ISOd you, I noticed where I was the best wagon and the worst wagon, and everything in between.

I think you're scum posturing, so we're both guilty of what the other's accusing the other of. But I know my Role PM, and it has nothing to do with scum.

[jon_h61]

I don't have much time today or tomorrow, but the two I'd be willing to vote at this juncture is Jordan and Xayzeck. Jordan because I think he's most likely scum. Xayzeck, because he doesn't participate in scum hunting much. He just comes in occasionally and says who he'd vote, usually with no reasons thrown in.

Perpetual Nonsense seems more scummy than Saki, to me. At least Saki put in effort to explain himself (even if I don't agree with his premise) and what he was trying to accomplish.

VOTE: Jordan

[jon_h61]

Sorry about going MIA, I went to the Fair and didn't get a chance to post. I had a good time, for what it's worth. We saw a bunch of cool exhibits and rode some cool rides. They had a Ferris Wheel where the seats were huge Kraft Mac N Cheese cups. Scared the h#ll out of my wife (Deb) though. I don't think I've ever seen her so freaked before, but she survived, and we didn't laugh at her

too

much!

Also I think it's time for some POE

Given that

Town

Saki
PeregrineV
TiphaineDeath
Perpetual Nonsense
DrippingGoofball
Jon_h61

And

Scum/SK

Xayzeck
RachMarie

then

Undefined=Scum

Jordan_Downey
Sharpest-knife-on-tree

If I am correct on my town reads and pere is right that there are 2-3 scum left then only one of Skot-Xay-JD-Rach can possibly be town, and there might not even be that one.

I think I need to rescind my previous statement, I am cool with votes on any of the above four, but would prefer a xayzeck lynch.

I'm in agreement with most of this. I'd put PN in the undefined group with SKOT. The utility of Jordan's role (Polarity Locker) seems more advantageous for scum than town. I don't see a way that Town could use it to their advantage, it keeps a slot from changing their Polarity.

I'm mostly in agreement with the Town reads. The two I'd most like to see flip is Xayzeck and Jordan. I played with Xayzeck before, and this doesn't feel like his Town game. He really doesn't seem to be trying to scum hunt. He seems more to be adding confusion, rather than helping to out scum.

[jon_h61]

Feel like voting Xay with me then Jon? Jordan is probably scum but there's also certainly at least two scum left so best case scenario killing him won't stop a night kill, if I'm right and we nail Xay it will.

I was waiting on something from Xayzeck, but it doesn't look like it's forth coming. I'd consider it, but right now I'm liking my vote where it is. I don't know if Xayzeck's an SK, but I'd bet he isn't Town.

@ Jordan Are you willing to share what you've done with your Power since the start? What did you see yourself trying to accomplish with it? Did you have any success? When you lock someone's Polarity, do you pick what Polarity they are? Do you see why I have a hard time seeing your slot as a Town aligned role?

[jon_h61]

Yeah I think so too

Let's lynch Perpetual Nonsense.

I'll back off Jordan for now, I'm still thinking Xayzeck's been pretty scummy this game. PN is a slot that really needs sorted, he (they) talk a lot of nonsense.

Take the case where you can lock scum in Light polarity. They effectively become useless against all dark polarity people. So I wouldn't venture to call it anti-town, just often negative utility.

Actions only go through on opposite Polarities. If the majority is Dark, then the Lights' are in the most danger.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Perpetual Nonsense

[jon_h61]

The TL;DR version

PN Scum-ish
PV Town
TD Town-ish
Rach Scum-ish
SKOT Town
Xay Scum
DGB Town
Jordan Null-scum
Saki Null-Town

post 3299 Fear of him monopolizing the game as scum with righteous indignation is very real. Having a player like him survive late into the game put The Collective on edge. He's not the type of player to expose himself later.

This was a real fear that I had, and it's bad that we fall into traps like this, but it's all part of the

game

.

I'd really like more feedback on what people think of Jordan's explanation of the use of his Power. Does it look made up, or does it look like honest recapping of previous actions?

This is where I stand right now.

I think PN

sounded

Townier, in his last sets of replies, as well as making me lol. I'm going to be looking more into this slot, putting them under more scrutiny. Right now I'm leaning a little more scum on them than Town. I've gotten a few good chuckles out of their posts, whatever their alignment.

PV is still my number one Town read. Take that with YMMV, one of my last games with Titus, I Town read her all the way to the win (hers, not ours).

Tipthaine isn't as strong a Town read as he was in earlier Days, but I'm not ready to call him scum. To be perfectly honest, I don't remember what made me downgrade my read a bit, too much Meat World in between the change and now.
I'll look back over his posts and let you know why I changed my read, and where I stand on it now,

probably

later tonight.

Rach, where are you? Please add more "where you stand" on slots with your observations. This is one of the big reasons I've been scum reading you since I first replaced in. Too much Information, and not enough analysis.

SKOT, I've just reread their ISO, and from based on where (and how) they've stood, I'm going to move them right under Peregrine in my Town list.

Xayzeck's scum, I'm willing to vote him if his wagon starts to roll.

DGB Town. A complete reversal on my Necro read. I asked repeatedly for Necro to come back to the game. My read reversal is for reasons.

Jordan I'm still having a hard time envisioning his PR as a Town PR. Without another PR to compliment it, it looks like a scum PR. The question is, why would he say he was a Polarity Locker if he

was

scum? I'm swingy on this slot.

Saki's still almost a flip of a coin, but, Saki, could you explain your Post 3356? How do you see Jordan only using his Power on Town meaning that he's somehow Town for it? I'm not seeing the logic.

your sudden tunnel makes sense as scum is to distract us from Xay or Jordan.

Even though PN's an almost scum read, I'd still be willing to vote either of these, if they ever take off.

[jon_h61]

Yeah, I get where you're coming from, I wanted to do that with xay and realized I had no backing so I've kinda given that up for now.

I think we need to drum up enough votes to get this wagon going.

I noticed something, when I said Saki said Jordan used his PR on all Townies, I don't know if I misread something Saki said, or what. Titus was scum, so Jordan using his PR on all Town isn't true.

I went back and read Saki's 3356 and I still don't see his logic, but I'm not sure it makes him scum.

locked VTs have happened

So have Locked scum roles.

[jon_h61]

^ this wagon = Xayzeck

[jon_h61]

I genuinely hope you are not softclaiming a PR.

No, I'm not

soft

claiming being a PR. But I

did

receive a PR, if that helps.

We can discuss it more tomorrow, if you'd like. It's about time for my alone time with Deb (my wife). If she don't get it, then all is not well in my world!

[jon_h61]

I do not like the folks voting perpetual nonsense

A little more clarification would be nice. My main thing right now, was PN actually ignorant of things? Like his Role PM, my having a PR, etc.? My having a PR is a big one, wouldn't his scum mates let him know that,

if

he was scum? What is your opinion of PN if you don't like his wagon? It

almost

sounds like a Town read, but I'd like to know for sure.

What parts of his wagon are bad? What premise are you disagreeing with? I have you as pretty solid Town, so you can be sure I'll consider what you're seeing seriously.

Are you willing to vote Xayzeck or Jordan?

[jon_h61]

Are you willing to vote Xayzeck or Jordan?

Looking at vote counts R US!

[jon_h61]

okay things are getting narrower. 3 scum down 2 to 3 left?
I do not think Saki, or PV are scum at all.
I still think Jordan's claim is full of kaka and they never outlined anything further on their "plan."
I have to stick with my day one probing of Necro and stay with town there... she could be faking things as scum though.
This leave PN, TD, Jon, xaym and Rach and I could run any of those up. I don't have time to sort anything out.
I thought the early pressure on xay was a mistake and coulda been wrong. I want to see what others say right now and don't have time to really look at much else right now.

Posting right after waking up isn't my strongest suit. I remembered yesterday I'd read through your ISO, all two pages, and decided you were Town only behind Peregrine. I didn't remember every reason why, and I refuse to try to keep notes in a large. It sometimes leads me to derp post, but if I tried to keep notes, I'd be at it all day, and as often as my reads have changed, I'd probably be in worse shape than I'm in now.

My choices for votes, hi to low, Xayzeck, Jordan, then PN. With Rach somewhere in there. I'm willing to bet both Xay and Rach flip scum. My gut says so.

pedit @ Xayzeck That's a good question, I've been asking for your lynch for a while. So, why the active lurking, then? You admit it makes you look like scum. If you're Town, shouldn't you be helping

us

out? Instead of asking us why, shouldn't you be giving us

your

opinion of these things?

ppedit Maybe? Or is this what you want us to believe?

pppedit Stop ninjaing me!

[jon_h61]

@ Xayzeck You've been reading along, and posting pretty regularly. Surely you have some suspicions?

[jon_h61]

Oh, like an inventor gave you something! Cool. that doesn't clear you.

No. My slot was born with it. My predecessor had the same role too. Alas, they never had a chance to use it. I wonder what the differences would be if they'd had a chance to use it.

[jon_h61]

basically i don't think Jordan is scum

I haven't slotted PN

but I don't feel convinced on PNscum. I would vote him just to get him at L-1 because that would help with content, but I wouldn't be able to substantiate it. I would be voting ONLY BECAUSE he's the biggest wagon, and does that help town? I dunno, maybe? But only because they are willing to generate that content, I'm just the blind sheep.

I'd rather I picked up my game now, but right now I have nothing to pick up on. I don't have the time right now to read the previous pages, and they all process as clutter to me.

To be honest, I was ready to just selfvote on D3 and just get my lynch over with. I don't want to be near endgame, I'm a pretty big liability to town.

Too WIFOMy. Read the last few pages, then come back and tell us something better. I ain't gonna preach, but you did sign up to play. Apathetic scum is one thing, or... Are you?

PN thinks me, Tipthaine are scum. With a little suspicion on Jordan, but that's only if I flip Town. Did I get this right?

@ PN When did you start thinking my slot could be scum? It (your scum read) has just been expressed Today, yet I've given my sense of your slot previously. For large swaths of the game, your posts were short quips, not saying much. Remind me, what's your read on Saki?

pedit steal? What?

[jon_h61]

@ Perpetual Nonsense What are you conftowning about? I'm only conftown to myself, and after my flip. I'm not that arrogant, I won't yell I'M TOWN WORSHIP ME!!! I promise.

[jon_h61]

@ PN Someone has faith in me! I hope I live up to expectations, so far my play's been a bit meh. I've made a few big mistakes, but each game's a learning experience. You know, you really didn't elaborate on any of the questions I asked you. You and Xayzeck are using this "I haven't been paying attention"
defense-thingy.

Look at it from our point of view. We see a wagon on Xay or Jordan/Jon forming, and it looks like a wagon is heading their way. Then DGB starts beating the drum for our lynch after coming into the game, without reading the game AND having just said that by VCA, we aren't the scummiest.

Who are these people that you see turning wagons away from me? I know it wasn't me, aside from expressing suspicions I'd have raised anyway.

I didn't say that, but I will vouch for my hydra buddy that while things were not unraveling, the momentum looked to be changing ever so slightly. You're constantly pushing for us to answer questions, which makes it seem like you're obviously desperate for something. What do you want from us? You suggested we were town due to VCA or the way wagons went as well. Was that just some strange corner case scenario (those VCA's)? How much stock do you put into those.

You make it sound scummy when someone pushes you for your stance on things.

If

you were Town, I'd hope you'd put in some help too. This is why I'm pushing you now. To see if maybe I'm mistaken, and shouldn't scum read you. Your avoiding questions and evasive answers make me more sure you'll flip scum.

Since we're scum reading each other, can you briefly (or otherwise) tell me where I'm mistaken on you, and why you're Town? Please, if you're going to scum read me, I'd appreciate understanding why you're doing so.

BTW nongame related Dr. Suess taught me to read years ago.

[jon_h61]

I'm in agreement with lynching Xayzeck or (Rach, maybe I'd be willing to switch my vote over to them if things seem headed in that direction.

@ Perpetual Nonsense What's your read on both Xayzeck and Rach? Who are you suspicious of, beside me? Did you ever make your scum case on me? If you didn't, could I ask for it again? If you did, and I somehow missed it, could you give me the post number? Thanks

Is there anyone who'd rather not vote Xayzeck?

[jon_h61]

I'm in agreement with lynching Xayzeck or (Rach, maybe I'd be willing to switch my vote over to them if things seem headed in that direction.

@ Perpetual Nonsense What's your read on both Xayzeck and Rach? Who are you suspicious of, beside me? Did you ever make your scum case on me? If you didn't, could I ask for it again? If you did, and I somehow missed it, could you give me the post number? Thanks

Is there anyone who'd rather not vote Xayzeck?

In all seriousness, we don't think Xay is scum from a guttural standpoint, so nope not voting him. On a totally unrelated note he's also a fellow countryman.

The Jordan lynch doesn't have enough support.

Some questions were posed at us, and we will construct a post shortly to address them.

Here's the thing,

I've

asked you lots of questions, trying to get you properly sorted. What does "guttural standpoint" even mean? I don't think you've ever made a

case

on anyone. I really think

you

are scum. Not because of the short quips, or always mentioning that you're not paying attention. But because you've questioned others' cases, and have cast doubts at wagons, while at the same time,

not

putting out any cases of your own. The only time you cast doubts at a player's alignment is after they voice concern about your alignment.

Therefore scummy behavior is equal to a scum alignment.

@ Town Let's get together and lynch this slot. It'll be one tiny step (for Town) in the right direction.

@ Xayzeck If you're really Town, please get in here and prove it by helping us sort out the last (few?) scum(s). Some of the players I consider Town are saying they have doubts that you're scum. Get in here and help, if they're right.

Since I've backed off of Jordan, they haven't done anything to forward our scum hunting agenda, instead, they're just casting doubts over whether Town can reach an agreement. This only tears apart Town morale, so if they're Town they're going about things all wrong.

@ Jordan Yesterday when Thor was lynched, you were pushing me as scum, but yet Peregrine is the slot youRNGdto lock? Why didn't you lock me, if you thought I was scum? This makes little sense.