Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[Titus]

I just got my role PM. Reading up nowish.

[Titus]

I was actually about to switch to Dryfit because the wagon was bigger.

Now I'm good with the Aegor lynch.

People should wagon one or the other.

Can you give me the TDLR reasons on why each is scum?

[Titus]

Dry-fit, can you link me to the BS meta case? What people say about meta can be very telling about alignment.

[Titus]

@Necromancer, I've been reading backwards. What's null about Jordan's claim? If I understand it right, he'd be preventing the NK and not much else, unless I'm not understanding?

[Titus]

@Necromancer, I've been reading backwards. What's null about Jordan's claim? If I understand it right, he'd be preventing the NK and not much else, unless I'm not understanding?

well, considering the role targeting works by the polarities meshing up, "polarity locking" sounds like it could just as easily be scum as town

Explain please? I would imagine a scum version of the role would be a polarity changer no? Change someone's polarity to XYZ... kill them?

[Titus]

Explain please? I would imagine a scum version of the role would be a polarity changer no? Change someone's polarity to XYZ... kill them?

what? no, you explain.

"locking" polarities would theoretically fuck with town PRs as much as it would fuck with scumkills, so i don't get what

your

point is

Locking polarities would function more like a rolestopper then I guess. It's much better to use a rolestop and have an important town player live. To me, it's more effective than a doctor, particularly if we have a large imbalance in the shifts.

Whatever, I'm done with the rolespec right now. I see the role as probably being town. I don't like the sudden shift of votes from Jordan to Dry-fit though. Most every player who jumped off immediately jumped to Dryfit. That cannot be a coincidence.

[Titus]

How was my catch up post town?

as much as thor would like to pooh-pooh it, the stream-of-consciousness "post-as-you-read" is pretty hard to fake as scum, and your post had a natural feel to it.

That's my bread and butter as scum. Consider it double pooh poohed.

[Titus]

Locking polarities would function more like a rolestopper then I guess. It's much better to use a rolestop and have an important town player live. To me, it's more effective than a doctor, particularly if we have a large imbalance in the shifts.

exactly... rolestopper isn't inherently a "town" or "scum" role, it could be either.

you're proving my point for me....

Whatever, I'm done with the rolespec right now. I see the role as probably being town. I don't like the sudden shift of votes from Jordan to Dry-fit though. Most every player who jumped off immediately jumped to Dryfit. That cannot be a coincidence.

ya' think so?

...so what does that tell you about jordan's alignment?
how about aegor's flashwagon and his alignment?

That's my bread and butter as scum. Consider it double pooh poohed.

oh boy, self meta

you're really pulling out all the stops with this one

Ignoring smartass comments as I don't care to ragebait you yet.

The sudden swap from Jordan to Dryfit indicates at least one of the jumpers is scum. Who that is depends on the alignment of Jordan and Dryfit. I don't see Dryfit being scum just due to the sheer speed and swap.

Aegor's flashwagon, judging from his ISO, is probably because he's anti-town. I don't have as many problems with that wagon.

[Titus]

As for the polarity locker, it could be scum, just like doctor can rarely be a scum role in most setups. Most of the time they are town. He's not autoclear, if that's what your implication was, but he's probably clear.

[Titus]

Why are you saying 'anti-town' rather than 'scum'?

Because Aegor is being anti-town. Anti-town is different than scummy. I don't know if he is scummy or not. Some players just are anti-town. I'm feeling things out right now.

[Titus]

I just got here and I'm in no hurry to have the day end. I'd rather take my time, sit down and read things.

I also don't like the assumption we need a lynch. Yeah, lynches give info but so do night kills. Unless scum NK and town no lynch, we are getting information. My opinion though is not widely accepted.

Mod: I think Malakittens is voting for me as well.

The VC is correct.

[Titus]

@The Necromancers, do you have townreads on both Aegor and Dryfit? I see you wanting to divert attention away from the two leading wagons near deadline.

[Titus]

Oh Saki, nice obligatory vote on me.

I'm off to bed. Catch y'all tomorrow afternoon.

[Titus]

First post after I subin and I don't care for Jordan. He asks for a case I already asjed for and received.

As for that case, I don't find a problem with it but the reactions to it. Dryfit, from my recollection, is a little more aggressive as town when put under pressure from our fire and ice game. The biggest problem is meta sucks and I don't get why he was wagoned over Aegor.

VOTE: Aegor

[Titus]

I've been reading backwards

Have you ever done this before?

Frequently. I read the ISOs of the major wagons, ask for the cases (to determine social groupings) and fill in the rest as needed.

[Titus]

I'd also look at known VCA but we don't have thst.

@Thor, your thoughts are the prevailing thoughts. I don't care to lynch unless we can nail someone to their position.

[Titus]

Not feeling the Aegor or Dry-fit hate at the moment. No love either, so will lynch to avoid wasted day, but let's try a flashwagon on a replacement.

Vote: Jon_h61

This fence is so far up your ass I can see it coming out your mouth. I amnot surprised you were "convinced" to vote me.

[Titus]

I've been reading backwards

Have you ever done this before?

Frequently. I read the ISOs of the major wagons, ask for the cases (to determine social groupings) and fill in the rest as needed.

Can I see an example?

Look at about half the larges I sub into in my ISO. I don't advertise but I ask for cases early on. That's a tip I am reading backwards. If I ask ppl to say what's important, I am reading forwards after lookng at ISOs.

[Titus]

Step 1: read role PM.
Thought 1: Wonderful a multiball game. Kill me now.

Thought 1: Why would anyone think it's multiball?

Vote: Malakittens

This is pathetic. Voting someone solely for a deduction.

[Titus]

Can't you just tell me the name of one?
Why are you being difficult?

It's not something I remember or take notes on and I have actual scumhunting to do. Why does it matter how I catch up?

[Titus]

VOTE: Mala

I feel completely ignored

This can die too.

[Titus]

Thor, I think you misunderstand. I want to hold ppl accountable for their votes rather than lols deadline.

Zdenek, it works as a stopgap until I can do a fullread (provided I live)

[Titus]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

For Zdnek now if you'll excuse me

[Titus]

Okay, I'll stop being coy. The line after my name of my role the last word is pluriazed, which makes it very, very likely multiball.

Looks like boiler-plate text to me.

Dry-fit, do you disagree?

I don't know what boilerplate text is to be honest.

Can we stop pretending anyone other than me is getting lynched today and get on with it?

I am townreading you so yeah not voting you suck it up and deal with it.

@Pere/Necro, The first thing multiball scum do in a multiball game is be quiet about it. Mala, if scum, has terrible odds of just freely giving out information. I also notice your tunnel Necro.

[Titus]

@Zdenek? What's ridiculous about having a structured skim near deadline?

[Titus]

Aegor votes are more likely to hit scum. Dryfit's town.
I have no intention of voting Dryfit.

[Titus]

@Necromancers, your move scumfuck. Either you can hammer obvious town without a claim or you can bus vote for 0 towncred because you tried to take a swing at me and avoid getting your hands dirty.

[Titus]

No. The wagon jump, my meta game, the quality of his content.

Compare to Aegor

Self-righteous, no content, hard to wagon

[Titus]

Unvote
Vote: Aegor

VOTE: Aegor

I for one don't think his quality is very outstandingly town to be honest, since what I can remember(though it was pretty early on in the game) was that it was complete shit. Which wagon jump, again?

Self-righteous isn't really alignment indicative though, but I'd agree a little more on the other 2 on Aegor. I think he is town though, but to be fair it's a meta read as well, I haven't paid much attention to him.

When the Jordan wagon evaporated, everyone jumped to Dry-fit. I highly doubt that's consistent with Dry-fit being scum.

@Necromancer, of course, try to break the trap by attacking me Anti-hero. So predictable.

[Titus]

ah that's what you meant

I don't think that has anything to do with dryfit being more likely to flip, though? like, if dryfit was next on the list after jordans flip, we're just doing a fastforward right now, just without the flip

Next on what list? Why would town have a list?

Why claim polarity ever?

[Titus]

Information, Titus. We want as much information as possible.

Again, no one change their polarity tonight. Mastinhero, I plan to target you with my ability in order to confirm it, so you should try to change.

I don't think anyone doubts what you are Jordan, just rather if you are town or scum.

What good does having polarity information for most of us, especially VTs? By keeping it secret, we can bust people who lie about it to try and setup mislynches.

[Titus]

When are we gonna bust Dry-fit for anything? The polarity claim, as I mentioned earlier, is part of my plan and should take place immediately before the lynch, every day. There is a point behind confirming my role, though you're right in that it doesn't confirm my alignment.

@TSO- I don't think 12 hours is gonna be enough for the Aegor wagon to get to lynch.

As much as I'd like scumMancers to be pinned to a polarity for checks, your objective doesn't do that at all. It basically, if I'm wrong, puts a neon sign on his back saying "scum kill Necro". That wouldn't even confirm your role, which I'm pretty sure no one doubts. So yeah, your plan ain't happening.

[Titus]

Wow, we are getting a shit ton of thread avoidance at deadline.

Aegor, suppose you are the lynch. What are your reads?

[Titus]

Well, I guess it isn't impossible, but having a polarity locker when one (or more) people can't change polarity anyway is kinda useless, and I don't think bulba is threads type of mod to include useless stuff like that

I don't think it is useless. Jordan's role can be used (if he's town) but the way he's suggesting is horrendous for the town.

Rather, directing his ability makes more sense in a world where we wanted to limit the ability of people to change their polarity. For instance, scum wanting to avoid a polarity check, etc.

Part of me thinks that tomorrow (not today) we should consider claiming locked polarity or flexible polarity.

[Titus]

Shiny, I hope you weren't counting me, because I feel the way about Dry-fit the way you feel about Aegor. The difference is I actually cared to show up and argue for lynching Aegor over Dry-fit.

[Titus]

Where is everyone? Come on, 'muricans.

Americans in CA who don't run their own businesses are likely getting home from work.

[Titus]

Didn't change either.

Spring flower, why was TSO the most antitown town?

Doublade, why were you hyper to have the thread closed yesterday?

VOTE: Doublade

[Titus]

@ Thor What are your plans Today? I started off liking your pushing wagons. But as the Day wore on, it started looking like you just wanted anyone lynched. Sure you said a few slots were scum, and a few were Town. But in your read list I couldn't find anything I felt I wanted

to

sheep. Who do you think most needs lynched, and why?

My only knowledge of you is from reading games when I was reading meta for someone else. I read one game where you were scum and you pushed lynches, and bullied Town, somewhat similar to Day 1 here. I don't remember who won anymore, but there are similarities I can see between the two games.

I can see Necro and I are going to be calling each other scum, probably until there's a flip. That's OK, makes things interesting.

I think Xayzek's Town.

More later tonight.

Why no vote if you think he's scum?

[Titus]

Why no vote if you think he's scum?

(Because he's scum.)

Btw, worth mentioning is that his alignment regardless, a Dry-fit lynch might also be a good idea for one simple reason: dueling wagon analysis. If he's town, we know that scum didn't particularly care who got lynched yesterday. (Thus, are likely to be evenly spread, or close to.) If he's scum, well...look at how close he got to lynch and how Aegor got speed-lynched; that's much more telling. So there's info to be gained either way.

Still, though. Not something for today.

Jon's today.

Are you trying to make me not like you? Chaining information lynches?

It's much better to force scum to kill to give us information than it is to telegraph lynches they can then NK around. Just stop it.

[Titus]

Wow..

First you claim we should lynch all the wagons for info but noooo that's not chaining info lynches.
Then, you claim that Mala is probably town for wanting to lynch you but I'm scum for possibly thinking your scum.

Also, I love how you came swiniging in on Jon assuming he's scum and ignoring the blatant scumminess by Doublade.

[Titus]

I'm pretty sure you're the first person on the face of mafia who said I'm less agreeable as scum.

Jordan, wow that's a disturbingly leading question on Necro.

I don't care for them because of their chaining lynches, ridiculous theories and arguments that assume without actually listening. For instance, the Doublade town white knight.

Doublade asked to cut short the twilight. That generally only serves scum who are afraid to slip.

[Titus]

And when Jon flips town because you literally have no case? You'll go back and actually stop this whole chain lynching non-sense and actually listen to town me? Nah, because you're Antihero who has got scummy vision. Seriously, you're tunnelling hard on a lurker. That just says gee who wants to policy lynch day fucking 2. I'm tempted to say Jon is town just to fucking spite you.

Also, you still haven't answered why Doublade is "one of the towniest players in the game". Town don't want twilight cut short.


Yeah, disagreeing with Antihero and having a backbone is a scumclaim. Just shut up and actually let Mastina talk.

[Titus]

Thor isn't scum. He's doing town shit to a T. Can people quit misting him? Jon will likely flip town and you'll just realize that you're shutting me out Necro. Then again, I get the paranoia but damn dude and dudette.

Necro

you still haven't answered why Doublade is town? I've asked it about like five times now.

You haven't given a single reason why you want jon dead that isn't just fancy words for lurkage.


When I came in, I had Aegor and Dryfit as choices. Dry-fit was obvtown. Aegor was anti-town, and therefore had a better chance of flipping scum.

[Titus]

Thor isn't scum. He's doing town shit to a T. Can people quit misting him? Jon will likely flip town and you'll just realize that you're shutting me out Necro. Then again, I get the paranoia but damn dude and dudette.

Necro you still haven't answered why Doublade is town? I've asked it about like five times now.

You haven't given a single reason why you want jon dead that isn't just fancy words for lurkage.

>you get the paranoia?

>mastin probably described (in great detail) why marquis is town, in fact i recall that from day 1. go to mastin2's iso and search "marquis" or "doublade" and you'll find whatever you're after. what you're doing are empty prods for content.

>are you fucking kidding? this has nothing to do with "lurking" and mastin has been over and over and over why the talah slot is scum this ENTIRE time.

Which post numbers do you do as you state?

[Titus]

Mastin's made it pretty clear, no matter my Role PM, there's no way I'm Town. Because he knows this, he doesn't have to give any consideration that there's any chance of being wrong. I'm honored and all, that Necro thinks I'm so dangerous I need killing first and foremost. I just don't think it's for the right reasons.

see, you keep calling us scum, but we still see shit like this^

this implies you think we're town genuinely suspecting you, but you want to keep on taking potshots

Well, hell yeah. You're writing speeches about how this slot couldn't possibly be Town. Of course I'm going to bite back now and then.

Antihero must be egging Mastin on. There's no way Mastin pushes for this bad of a policy lynch.

Let's ignore him and show him you're more than a lurker.

[Titus]

yep, set yourself up to push us tomorrow.
usually, there's some kind of logic (albeit moonlogic) behind your pushes, but your push here is literally 100% bluster.
scumtitus. 100%.

(This is why I love hydraing with Antihero. Who needs a QT? We've got our minds!)

Me, and jordan is still scum, and I am pretty pissed at thr fact that we are wagoning two townies insteads of him, AND ALSO people are going for aegor over dryfit when his flip is extremely informative and when he, himself is being just as useful as a baby

Good

god

, Mara's never leaving the top of my townlist.
Ever.

Conftown will go below her.

She's

that

town.

So that's about as much productive stuff can be said.

My push here is about solving you by the way. I don't care to see you dead unless you're scum. A town!mastina I can get through to. I've done it before and I'll do it again.

[Titus]

Antihero must be egging Mastin on. There's no way Mastin pushes for this bad of a policy lynch.

lolz ur adorable.

the talah scumread is mastin's baby pride and joy.

i eventually came around because 1) the slot's scummy and 2) mastin's a lot better at this game than i am.

And if Mastin's wrong??

You also haven't answered my question about where Necro said this was more than a lurker lynch.

[Titus]

And if Mastin's wrong??

then mastin's dead to me and i'll hate her forever.

...? what are you talking about?

You also haven't answered my question about where Necro said this was more than a lurker lynch.

then you didn't do what i said in the last post.
if you really can't find where mastin makes case after case on talah, then you really are just proving my point about playing the "too dumb to be scum" card.

You don't get to play an obvious discredit and have me forget it. There is a chance you're the dumb hydra hellbent on lord knows what, and I've got Doublade's scumclaim but damn you make it hard.

[Titus]

>are you fucking kidding? this has nothing to do with "lurking" and mastin has been over and over and over why the talah slot is scum this ENTIRE time.

Yes, you have. Go ahead, this slot is just helping scum make a smokescreen anyway. Plus I think Necro is afraid of my PR helping Town too much if it made it to the latter part of the game. Whether his fear comes from Town fear or scum fear, I honestly don't know. He

has gone out of his way

to nullify this slot. I'll accept defeat, just give me a blindfold and a last cigarette, please.

Town be aware of aggressive scum, they're out to kill you.

Reads haven't changed from last time.

Necro The playground bullie
Thor The hammer
Rach Sweet little Rach (She married into the Mafia)
And a couple of others I'm too lazy to look up right now.


I have just been annihilated by the mighty Necromancers!!! RUN!!! Before they get you!


,

Dude edit your god damn posts. You aren't helping us any.

[Titus]

VLA from the 26th until the 31st

[Titus]

seriously, titus not knowing necro's case?

Vote titus....

you gave up on the ZZZX push pretty damn quick

what you want me to tunnel?
Did you get rid of TSO because you knew he would keep tunneling on you?
I vote how I vote, when I vote and use my vote as I see fit...
titus I have seen is more game aware then that... so it is worth a vote... it should not be shocking.
Zzzx is not doing anything to help and has yet to post since off VLA. If it were soley up to me, ZZZX would be out of the game by now.

What case? I just saw jon's a lurker... why do people think that's a case?

[Titus]

Necro, I am trying to get more information out. I want people to discuss Doublade. I want discussion about your case. I want to solve the game. However, massive discredits and refusal to highlight cases (and calling me a dumb ass for not seeing it) prevent me from actually doing so. I MUST interact with players to solve the game.

[Titus]

Everyone rolling their eyes saying there's no way Titus can't see the case are all discredits. You can't actually believe the case you're putting forth is a discredit.

None of my prods are empty, hence why I am following up on my statements and wanting discussion. It absolutely is an acceptable argument. I find that scum (with myself being the rare exception) want the day cut shorter if their is some piece of information they want to hide. When I see someone say, "hurry up and end the day/twilight" and there won't be disasterous results and they are not new, I immediately think it's a scumclaim. I don't need more than that before I start a discussion because I look at reactions to a piece of evidence and then build more from that said reaction. The fact that no one talks about Doublade's slip makes me believe more that Doublade is scum and this fact should be hidden.

The slot gets a free pass becaues Marquis is a giant fucking troll. You don't give usual trolls town status because they troll. His whole ISO, majority of it less than two lines, indicates scum. He's doing empty vapid content.


Now, can you please link me to this case that I've overlooked that you believe is more than a lurker case?

[Titus]

Necro, how the hell do you get off chiding me for not working with anyone and then blatantly ignore my posts. It is as if you are trying to ostracize me and then blame it on me.

[Titus]

It's like you are trying to get me to tunnel you and get under my skin.

[Titus]

Necro, how the hell do you get off chiding me for not working with anyone and then blatantly ignore my posts. It is as if you are trying to ostracize me and then blame it on me.

Do you actually think that's the plan?

I'm finally starting to town read Necro today.

Necromancers wants me ostracized, whether that's because I'm a scumread or I'd be too dominate as obvtown remains to be seen but I will interact and I will catch the scum.

ZZX, Spring is a decent townread of mine so far in the game. Why she she a scumread for you?

[Titus]

@Thor, yes. I believe everyone is stupid not to fear either my derpage or my really good play. I don't really have a middle ground so I suppose everyone is afraid of me. Both town and scum have reason to fear me. Although which side fears me depends on how accurate my reads are which is why I need some people to actually post more than blanket statements or link me to a post I've missed. I'm juggling moving into a house, running my own business and flying out for a wedding. I don't have as much time to give as I'd like to the game but the host was desperate for a replacement.


@EddieFenix, what can you see? how do you feel you're "getting the run around"? I haven't really seen much of you here.

[Titus]

Why do you feel there's a set time before you lay a vote down? This seems really preemptively defensive.

[Titus]

Hey, Jon, did you know Talah claimed polarity tracker?

Eh, was a joke, wanted to see how'd react.

Abousetly nothing I think. It's not one I have ever seen before. (Trying to take a trick from
The DgB/Kuribo book) >_<

VOTE: Malakittens

Three random posts do not justify a vote. I cannot see your logic train.

[Titus]

I made a mistake yesterday, I will not make the same mistake again. Occam commands me, VOTE: Xayzeck.

Also acceptable lynches would be titus or zzzx, though I have an unfortunate history of scumreading titus when she's town so I'm a bit more leery of that one.

In other news though anyone still scumreading necro should be shot to increase the intelligence of the gene pool. And thor is probably town.

White knight Necro much mayhaps? Why does Occam command Xayxeck?

There are a lot of words here but just conclusions.


I am beginning to think maybe there's something wrong with communication. I sm seeing a shitton of buzzwords but little analysis.

My biggest townreads are Mala and Thor, and I have no idea how to reach Mala here. I could just saysomething illogical to cause drama but I would rather not.

[Titus]

Necro doesn't need white knighting, trust me.

TSO was pushing Xayzeck with me all day, then he followed me off him, then he died. Simplest explanation as to why he died is that xayzeck is scum, not to mention existing information that points in that direction.

This is wifom at best. What if TSO was a threat to another player AND scum could get a mislynch on Xay?

What other information points towards Xay being scum? I just saw a lot of bickering the first few days.

Why doesn't necro need whiteknighting? If he fears me because I'm onto Doublade being his scumbuddy, then Necro would need whiteknighting.

[Titus]

If Necro fears me because I'm town having the game wrong, Necro needs whiteknighting as well to prevent his mislynch and to have Necro encourage more mislynches.

Whiteknighting, generally, is not as "cacluated" as you intend it to be. Rather, it is a bunch of blanket statements that whip people into a frenzy of Player X being town or scum. Such allegations make it easier or harder to lynch a player in the future because they mess with the subsconscious.

[Titus]

Skim here due to lack of time, if I missed something, do tell me. I haven't had the time because of my cross country trip that I'd like.

@Mastin, both town and scum whiteknight. Your definition is shit. Whiteknighting is posting someone is town without a rational basis. It's precisely what you are doing for quite a few players. You use a lot of words, but your statements are based on associatives with in and of themselves are baseless.

@PV, My wagon is composed of SH --- null lean town, SKOT --- null no real interaction but dropped vote and left, lean scum, Mala is town probably because she's scumreading me right now and she always scumreads me as town, PV --- seems to be engaging in a manuever to read my mislynchability or to sort me. I should have you sorted by the end of the day. Necromancers --- I hope they die so I can see if they were town or scum. Town, they're a liability because they only want to mislynch. As scum, so I'm vindicated as scum going for an easier mislynch.



Why the hell is Dryfit wagoned again? That wagon still sucked shit. And it's by the same fucking jumpers...and Doublade, practically confscum is on it.

Why is no one even looking at Doublade's posts? Seriously...

[Titus]

VOTE: mala

Sorry I hurt your feelings for not reaching out to you, but damn if you really think I'm scum you'll need to explain.


---

Thor I really don't see wagoning me is going to accomplish anything. If anything it's in fact a lazy place to hold your vote.

This is precisely how I feel Mala.

If you can see I'm town and I can convince Thor that you're town, we can have a nice solid townblock going and there's no way in hell the scums could fool the three of us.

#reachout

[Titus]

Yeah that's the thing. I really don't see you convincing me that you're town. I didn't like your pred's posts.

You made two posts, one that looks like a scum slip and I have tied that into connection w/ Jon scum and the second was the way you phrased something in a post after you replaced in.

So it's not that I'm scum reading you withou taking into acc your current posts. I just don't see you being of a town nature.

Well, when you break it up like that... it sounds like you ARE self-conscious of being perceived as never giving me a chance and I'm beginning to think you never intended to.

Why don't you elaborate on this alleged "slip" and what I "phrased"? You've read me as scum a million times before and been wrong.

Why did that wagon take a back seat?

Why are you calling Thor lazy when you're just throwing out random buzzwords?



TiphaineDeath, why are you suddenly voting this naked vote? There were shit tons on Dryfit and what not. What's so irritating about that one?


Also, can we see that Doublade has taken no position on anything?

[Titus]

Mala, that's every town game we've been in together. In Fire and Ice, you said the same thing that you have a bias towards scumreading it. I totally used it against you (admittedly) so you wouldn't vote me. The problem was I got paranoid that you were fire scum at the end. I'll grab the posts at some point but I'm going to bed soon and flying out tomorrow.

You haven't actually announced where I slipped, just the wording was off.

The problem is that I'm not obvscum. I think you have tunnel vision considering you're posting a lot of words and not answering the questions.

[Titus]

Mala, we're both the major wagons. Everyone thinks Jon and I are linked. So yeah, I said it's not helping us. If I can't prove I'm town, then if the premise is we are linked, he can prove he's town and we're both proven town. Do you seriously think that I'd openly coach someone in the middle of the thread. How many scum games have you seen? Now count the number of coaching's I've done. Here's a hint, you need one hand, minus one hand.

You think I'm scum for some reason other than this "slip" and you're confbiasing.

I was scum in Fire and Ice but you said you always scumread me there.

[Titus]

Well I'm dark locked if it helps you any.

At least I won't have to post on my vacation if it's a real vig.

[Titus]

Necro --- I hope he's scum
Mala --- back to a null read
Thor -- Town
Doublade --- Scum
Jon --- Town
Dryfit --- Town

At least one jumper on the Dryfit wagon voting dryfit today is scum.

I'm still trying to interact with the rest of the players, so we'll see for reads on the rest... but I doubt I'll get the time.

[Titus]

Hmmmm.

why null read for me?

(still dont see jon town)

You don't usually confbias as town but at the same point when you're NOT talking about me, your posting has been pretty decent. So I'm stuck between scum trying to tunnel me and making decent fig leaves elsewhere or just dumb town in a confbias.

I see Jon town because I see no case beyond lurker Jon. I ask for a case... no one says, Titus look here. You missed it. Yet his wagon takes off. Wagons that take off for reasons no one can explain are almost always on town.

[Titus]

Nah, she's alive because of the following:

1. I don't have a real day vig kill :[

2. ZZZX is right that you need to have an opp. polarity for any action to go through.

So both titus / I can't do anything to each other while we are both dark.

Either way, titus' reaction felt "meh" to me. I was oh :readslist: but then it was 'meh'

Meh reactions are usually bad to dayvigs.

Wow... egg on much without providing your own content?

Why are "Meh" reactions bad? You said they are "usually" bad, suggesting that you think it was probably bad but leaving yourself an out if I flip town.

This just moved into lean scum.

[Titus]

I see Jon town because I see no case beyond lurker Jon. I ask for a case... no one says, Titus look here. You missed it.

Yet his wagon takes off.

Wagons that take off for reasons no one can explain are almost always on town.

>still ignoring mastin's talah cases.
>according the vote count, the only people who have voted jon are ... mala and us. so how you can assert the wagon "took off" is beyond reason.

Where are Mastin's talah cases? Link me please. That's precisely what I have been asking for.

Everyone started throwing mud that jon was scum cuz lurkerage. That's a take off of a wagon in my book.

[Titus]

VLA starting now. I will try to post daily.

[Titus]

So much shit posted. Gah...now I know how people feel. Just responding to the last page.

Necro, no one is a confirmed scumbag. Also did you ever think I could be town? Nope. You're still beating a dead horse trying to make a dead townie. Basically you're in confbias. Most players have used this to investigate others given time and my inability to respond.

When I am back, I do plan to show at least 2 or 3 scum with solid evidence. I just need to verify a few posts when I am less jetlagged.

Again, you used a lot of words but haven't shown how the tone is reflective. Also, you assume 1 universal way of speaking. Moonlogic is because I lack that speech.

As for your wagon analysis, it is easy to find a theory thst fits confbias.

Let's see if you can do intellectual honesty. Suppose I am frustrated town. Where does that leave you?

[Titus]

Spring, that's all they've got Spring. That is why the wagon on me stalled. Mastin's wagon is I don't like the way Titus talks. Newsflash, no one likes me early. Then he says whoever I defend is scum. I am debating saying everyone's tiwn to punk him. That or something else.

Why is ZZX tunneling you? Where did he first place his vote on you?

[Titus]

Necro, bullshit. Except for Jon most of your scumreads emerge after I defended someone according to you.

Just stating I am not town is not evidence. Do a formal proof. Premise: If Titus does this she is x percent likely to be scum.
Fact: Titus posted this in Game X.
Fact: Titus posted this in game Y.
Fact: Titus posted this in this game.
Conclusion: Titus usually does this as scum, therefore she is more likely to be scum.


How is Jon confscum? Why are you not voting Confscum? My vote is on Doublade cuz they are obvscum to me which is closest to confscum without a cop. Yet you are pushing me over confirmed scum. You don't like me, but even according to your readstrength you are playing suboptimally.

I got one.

Premise: If I amwagoned early and is poorly understood, I am town.
Fact: Most games where I am wagoned early, I am town.
Fact: I, playing by myself, never get wagoned early as scum. Check my last few scum games but street racers.
Fact: Moonlogic is what caused the confusion.
Fact: Moonlogic is Titus speaking in Titusese.
Fact: No one gets my push on Doublade.
Conclusion: Titus is town.

[Titus]

Necro, let's suppose arguendo SS is a rolecop and I am scum. You think they would not check you? Please.

[Titus]

Nah...it's not matching Anti bc I am not scum.

Mastin, I find it funny how your confirmations appeared after I "defended" those players.

You haven't done a fomal proof. You can put your meta args in that form if they are more than wordchoice.

You've seen my teams. Scum Jon resists Scum Titus to do whatever....hahaha no.

[Titus]

Good night. I am out here for another day but bleh saw this shit still.

[Titus]

Jon, Necro has caught my infamous Titus tunnel syndrome. While I can't rule out he is scum, he probably is not. His actions take steps to avoid criticsm of his logic. Scum generally want to look unassailable and respond to everything. They are so paranoid I am scum that they are refusing reason. Scum Mastin would probably rephrase and clarify. If I lynched Necro, it would be policy and hoping I was wrong. It is annoying to have loud town come after you. Yet we can see it is blustering. Given Mastin's persuasiveness, it is best to have him investigated.

[Titus]

P-edit: What crap jon? Calling me town is crap? Thanks.

Anyway back to the SS wagon

Vote: Spring Starflower

He also called me for not scum hunting while he didnt even try to LOL

Can you rephrase the debate between you and SS please?

[Titus]

the fact that the mod has to keep asserting the field polarity with every votecount is making me think that there are day actions that can change the polarity i.e. daykills or day-polarity-switchers?? would be really cool if someone could change polarity to confirm themselves between votecounts

also for some reason i'm just seeing this game as everyone's just.... here. like there are people talking and people voting and mastin's making big posts but it's like i don't really know how to read them at this point.

it's not even an "everyone is null" thing it's like a "you all are failing to make a decent impression on me in any direction when normally i would feel at least someone's doing something scummy while also being towny at the same time"

pedit rach it's just like there's not a votecount number, just "votecount" and i don't see why we would have to be reminded of the polarity with each votecount unless there is a potential for change there

also i finally have a decent scumread ty <3 <3 <3

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dry-fit

i would be interested in hearing however just how much of the scumread on them comes from how they're still posting separately whether it's conscious or not because i can't imagine that the confusion caused by non-hydra posts of a supposed hydra wouldn't at the very least make scumreads on them a bit more wanted or acceptable if you know what i mean

basically i don't think the hydra issue is helping how they're being perceived and i'm kind of reluctant to let this go on without at least mentioning it in case it might be happening

[marquis]

can we lynch dry-fit please

i'm lost

UNVOTE:

[marquis]

we are town

obligatory post

sorry am busy

[marquis]

Shorter version

First Marquis is a troll at first. He minimslly does this.
Second, he asks for a polarity shift during the day. That at best outs a PR if even possible for the town.
Third, his dryfit stuff was reasonless.
Fourth, the scumclaim.
Fifth, general wanting to appease.

[Titus]

Necro, I do admit my interaction is weak. I am vla. You said that somewhere and I do expect interaction to be stronger Tuesday...provided no severe jet lag. Then Wednesday.

[Titus]

Both jon and Titus are Ate'ing Skoat

true enough mala, note I am voting Titus. She does hide it better though... jon was just blatant.

What statements constitute AtE? I don't believe I have.

[Titus]

2133and 2156 are current elements of bringing in emotion. Complaints about the game in both. 2133 you call yourself frustrated town. It is more cloaked overall. Then the "I am only run up early as town" non-sense. You yourself have prided yourself on saying that it is all null and now you are saying you do or have one thing happen as town and one as scum... I believe this is your scum game. Time will prove me right or wrong.

While "frustrated town" is a statement involving emotion it is not an appeal to emotion. The rest is not clear but self-meta is not AtE. You are leaving out the

Appeal

in AtE. AtE requires a statement that is not meant to be interpreted logically. Logically talking about emotions or stating your own is not AtE.

[Titus]

That is a case I can sheep until I read through the thread and verify. My vote on Doublade is the best but no one is voting it and I've spent more than half the day. Time to start collasping the wagons.

VOTE: ZZZX

[Titus]

Bleh. It's not naked. It could use more and I will be reviewing. Your response is not townie though. You act as if my vote is static when there is another plausible wagon. Saying someone's logic is not naked. So why are you so scared of a vote that may be temporary?

[Titus]

zzzx wagon is okay i guess

why dry fit wagon gone

Because dryfit is obvtown and you are scum. They don't see the latter yet. Give me time.

[Titus]

Quit bullying Thor to vote me and actually make a case on my ass beyond me perceiving acts as sufficient to constitute a wagon take off and you not.

[Titus]

I am flying back tonight.

I will review this then.

[Titus]

Oh he can. It doesn't change what you are doing. I will call you out for that shit if it is a newbie or not. Manipulation is not cool.

[Titus]

Ok. I'm back in town. Working tomorrow morning. Then kicking ass here.

This game, given its short deadline, is priority numero uno.

[Titus]

i cant talk about ongoing but lets say about games completed in that time. if i did that action in all my finished games and this it is NOT allignment inducative is it?

My point is that it *is* because in this game you then claimed that what you said was real. If you had initially told us 'there is no read's list, I was just copy/pasta' then I would not still be so excited by the idea of seeing you dead. But you claimed there was a list, and then that the list had been consumed, which to the best of my detective work didn't happen to anything else.

Consequently, I want to lengthen your neck.

Sadly this game's list wasnt the only one consumed. (talking about games that finished)

Your arguement is invalid

No. Thor's argument is absolutely valid. You are saying his argument is not sound.

Thor's argument is that

If you were lying about having a readslist, then you are scum.

You are claiming to have told the truth.

That would make Thor's claim unsound. I do feel that if his premise is true, then his conclusion must be. That makes it a valid argument.

The fact you are working to hard to attack Thor with arguments that are not logically valid due to definitional inconsistencies makes me feel even more confident in my vote here.

[Titus]

Here we go everyone, my promised reads catchup.

Shiny Hydreigon (0): -- Probably town here. I could see SH as scum with Dryfit/PV (but Dryfit probably isn't scum) but it's a longshot. 1230 is pretty townie IMO. My biggest concern is the large public call out on PV on being useless and no call out on Dryfit when this deadline is collapsing.
Doublade (0): Already done. Scum Scum Scum
Saki (0): Deliberately punting on Saki due to baggage and utility. Saki is the type of player that drives me nuts with trolling but will have extra use as polar opposites linking up to fuck with the scum team is a bonus.
ZZZX (0): The more he talks, the less I like him.
PeregrineV (0): I like PV's posts when he's talking about the game as a whole, particularly #2328 but I'm not quite following it. I'll have to break it down more later.
Spring Starflower (0): He has a shit ton of selfvouching that I don't care for. I wouldn't be surprised if ZZZX and Spring were a dual bus gone horribly bad and that would be why they don't really push their targets hard.
Zdenek/EddieFenix (0): I like Eddie as town. He's figuring out a lot fast on a short deadline and throwing out questions to get reads and rather carefree. Zdenek was pretty town as well through his ISO. We saw many of the same things in Aegor.
TiphaineDeath (0): The push on Spring because Spring "slipped" is a hard indication of TD being town. TD pushes his cases and thoughts hard once he has them (see Death's Diner). I don't care for the associative things about "one must be scum cuz wagon stalls" as scum don't mind stalling generally especially if all wagons are on town.
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (0): Lots of posts with trolling and little content. While I like the courage to stand up to Mastin/Anti, I am anxious to see how this plays out. I do feel Mastin and Antihero are likely town but Mastin's largest scumtell is consistently being wrong and having bad reasons for it. I will have to reread this argument between them if either flips. I don't particularly care for his vote in retaliation for me asking for clarification. Lean scum for now.
Dry-fit (0): Probably town, a lot of wagon stuff on him sucks.
The Most Curious Thing (0)/Malakittens: TMCT drew a lot of early heat. Mala's also been pushing hard for my lynch AND this doesn't seem to be town Mala. Her acknowledgement of consistently scumreading me when she was town in Open Fire and Ice and her dismissiveness (we'll I was right) doesn't change her consistency that she always reads me. It forces me to consider she's voteparking.
Nachomamma8/Perpetual Nonsense (0): I need interaction with PN to analyze since I had no contact with Nacho. I do tend to scumread Bert frequently though and I haven't completed a full, non-marathon game with Gaiden I believe.
TSO (0): Shot dead townie.
MafiaSSK/Nero Cain (0): I need more interaction here. Same with PN.
Natirasha/Thor (0): The most obvious town that ever towned.
Jon/Talah: Town due to similar bad push on Jon as me.
Xayzeck (0): There's a lot of mentions of him being scum, but little push on him today. This sets of alarm bells for me. That and usually being a consensus voter is frightening.
TheNecromancers (0): A shitstorm of confusion.
Fear of Titus (0): That's me. I'm town. Duh.
Jordan_Downey (0): Useful for now. We keep close eye on him and make him claim his actions. If someone changes polarity and Jordan claims to have locked them, we lynch Jordan. Period.
Aegor (0): Lynched Dead Townie.
RachMarie (0): She had a piss poor vote on Dry-fit and is pushing this for unknown reasons. I don't really care for her at all. I'll need to compare this to Teen Wolf but I will lack time as I have a shit ton of work to be doing. That's my next step.

[Titus]

Off to work/catchup on other games ATM. Will respond to questions periodically

[Titus]

@ZZZX, You are throwing mud. It's one thing to say Thor's premises are wrong. It's another to say it's invalid. You're doing the latter, which is throwing mud as the argument is logically valid even if you are telling the truth.

[Titus]

Wait just a cotton pickin minute. in what way is 2309 naming names??? The only name there is bulbazak.

Hence why I don't get it...

[Titus]

Thor, you're dripping sarcasm all over my keyboard, quit it.

But I like sarcasm on my monitor at night... Seriously dude, why are you upset over sarcasm?

[Titus]

*pounds on chest to resuscitate reachout after VLA*

I just provided a fair amount of content regarding everyone in a large catchup readwall Anti. I'm trying here but I don't even know what it is you're wanting to discuss. I'm not a fucking telepath.

[Titus]

NK is wifom, not the best reason to vote for me

useless is a scumtell? then why isn't saki in the list?

elaborate on the self's maybe

but to you i'm useless, scummy, self serving, self preserving, but my wagon got derailed, and I fail to see how that wagon-point has anything to do with me?

Saki is far from useless. Just because you don't agree or use their method of scumhunting does not mean it is not without purpose. Each scum player has their own weaknesses that can be exploited.

[Titus]

ZZZX i've talked about him, readlist was a lie and is derp, hasn't been doing much, but since mastin feels so strongly i'll give it a chance
Thor is also actually an Fos, because it just feels like he's getting people to push but doesn't feel like he's doing anything on his town. I don't know, I thought Thor would maybe be very active in scumhunting but it doesn't seem to be the case, so it's like "i expected THIS but I got this so I don't think town"
Saki is just a "wtf are you even playing this game you're worse than me, and I'm pretty scummy myself"

This is bullshit. Thor is pushing cases entirely.

What the hell is it with you scumfucks keeping wanting to push obvtown?

You're now second to Doublade on my scum list.

[Titus]

You should vote it anyway then, and see what happens.

Hey, Thor!
I posted something, you should sheep me!

Try posting something sheepable and we'll talk. I'm town reading TSO. And a few posts from now you'll actually get mincy with your read there. That is not sheep territory.

Help me lynch someone - this town is ridiculously silly and scared about pushing a lynch to claim territory.

Thor: You mention the other weak player, I'm guessing xay, in 994. Since in reference to Necro suggestion on aegor. Although only one game with aegor, he's shown an ability to read a game and determine his outs when he dodges a lynch by claiming scum in multiball and selling the town on him effectively being a vig and he lasted to end game. Not saying he's amazing by that play, but certainly wouldn't consider that weak.

Okay...?

You're voting him and are functionally arguing against my willingness to join the wagon because you're worried I might be underselling the skill of his scum game? I really don't follow you here.

@Rach - and if you do townread Xayzeck, what about Jordan? You should vote Jordan.

Xay, I went through the first few of Thor's posts where he's pushing votes. If you're going to bullshit on obvtown, make sure I know they aren't obvtown.

Marquis, like I care if you scumread me at all. You're scum, so you'd scumread me. Dude quick hydra leakin'.

[Titus]

Titus you don't even have a case

(Hint: you should try. come back to me when you realize "oh wait marq is obvtown")

I've posted my case repeatedly.

First, scumslip.
Second, useless posting throughout ISO.

Only now that you've come back in the last 2 hours have you posted anything resembling content. How Mastin and Antihero townread you is anyone's guess.

You're pushing a caseless lynch on Dryfit while hypocritically and wrongly stating that I have no case.

[Titus]

Xay, I went through the first few of Thor's posts where he's pushing votes. If you're going to bullshit on obvtown, make sure I know they aren't obvtown.

That's just "you should vote someone, who you voting right now?"

I fail to see how that's obvtown, that's just asking people to vote. Doublade is asking for votes for DryFit right now, is that town then?

Pushing alone isn't town.

You said Thor was scummy because he wasn't pushing cases. I showed he was, not to prove he was town, but to prove you were lying.

[Titus]

Doublade, who the hell are you talking about at the end? Tip(The Irish Pope) isn't even in this game.

[Titus]

*pounds on chest to resuscitate reachout after VLA*

I just provided a fair amount of content regarding everyone in a large catchup readwall Anti. I'm trying here but I don't even know what it is you're wanting to discuss. I'm not a fucking telepath.

well, i kind of don't know what you're doing

There isn't a master plan yet. I am just clearing obvtowns and pushing scum targets to crack the game. Given no one is listening to me on Doublade, there's little chance of him fearing me which makes it harder to interrogate him. Until I have a shit ton of reads, I cannot plsn likely actions or inactions.

The closest thing I have to a plan is lynch scum. Profit. To that end Xay and Doub need to die.

Thor, it's not about you. It's about having this be a no bullshit zone. Xay has lied twice about reasons why you could be scum. First on the ZZZX rationale and second on you not having a backbone to push anything but ZZZX.

If you start spewing bullshit or someone has an intellectually honest scum suspicion, I will let that go.

Also, if you ever read my scumgsmes, I don't push buddies towards obvtown. Having a buddy be obvtown early is a sign saying lynch me if I don't die at night. Bad play imo.

[Titus]

Pushing alone isn't town.

You said Thor was scummy because he wasn't pushing cases. I showed he was, not to prove he was town, but to prove you were lying.

False.

Titus says: Xay said Thor is scummy because he wasn't pushing anybody

Xay said: Thor is scummy because he's asking other people to push for their reads instead of pushing his own

Which would be what you quoted for me. Am I still lying?

This is a distinction without a difference, like saying something is large or gigantic.

Your push saying Thor's scumread on ZZX wasn't valud is also shit.

[Titus]

This is a distinction without a difference, like saying something is large or gigantic.

Your push saying Thor's scumread on ZZX wasn't valud is also shit.

What you showed me was what I had a problem with. You call it obvtown, I did not. Where is this lying?

I also never said his scumread on ZZZX wasn't valid. Fucking quote that shit for me right now. I never once said his push wasn't valid. YOU KNOW WHAT I'LL QUOTE THIS SHIT MYSELF.

This is bullshit. Thor is pushing cases entirely.

What the hell is it with you scumfucks keeping wanting to push obvtown?

I don't remember seeing that though, except for ZZZX only recently.

WHERE IS IT

No. I called Thor obvtown. You said no because Thor wasn't pushing cases. I said, but Thor has.

Also look closer at the post below. That's my problem in a nutshell.

ZZZX i've talked about him, readlist was a lie and is derp, hasn't been doing much, but since mastin feels so strongly i'll give it a chance
Thor is also actually an Fos, because it just feels like he's getting people to push but doesn't feel like he's doing anything on his town. I don't know, I thought Thor would maybe be very active in scumhunting but it doesn't seem to be the case, so it's like "i expected THIS but I got this so I don't think town"
Saki is just a "wtf are you even playing this game you're worse than me, and I'm pretty scummy myself"

You, for some reason, have to keep Thor as a scumread. He was highlighting the same stuff you did about ZZZX but all of a sudden you're FoSing him meaning you feel that Thor's case isn't valid. What the fuck?

[Titus]

Mastin, your reasoning is circular. Your reasoning that my posting "benefits scum" and therefore I am scum. You don't say how. I really can't see how going after scum is pro-scum at all. You can say my reads are shit, that's fine. We can talk about that. But to say that wrong = scum meta is a clear projection. It's not as black and white as you'd like it to be Mastin. However, empty threats of Titus is scum because she's scum are getting very old.

Also, the very defense you posted on ZZZX is something ZZZX is fully capable of articulating himself. He never did. It looks like you are trying to excuse scummy answers to fit your pre-existing worldview. Talk to Antihero.

I really like Spring as town out of the ZZZX, Spring pairing. So let's talk...

Why am I wrong? You've been giving statements about me being "proscum" but not talking to me. I am a horrible player when people dismiss me and do not intellectually engage. Look at NY 169. I had one scum due to a VCA that was obvious (Casso or Sakura had to be scum based on that VCA). It took the group until the end of the game to actually lynch that scum. Why? Because I was dismissed as derp due to my other reads. No one would talk or communicate with me effectively. Scum attempt to frame me (Generic). You can leave me here as mislynch bait and ignore me but it may damn well cost us the game. We shouldn't depend on PRs to save our asses when polarity mechanic might mean we don't even act.

[Titus]

Thor, I don't believe bad pushes based on mistaken facts that aren't immediately retracted as being mere disagreements. I've been wrong a time or two. I retract usually once I understand where and how I was wrong. I explained that to Xay but he refused to retract. So yeah, I believe he's lying. Solid 100% proof, nah but good enough for me right now.

[Titus]

We'll see which is right. Given the deadline, I doubt I can get Xay or Doublade lynched.

[Titus]

Is there any chance Spring can be scum Thor? The vote jumping kinda makes me want to test Mastin and see if he's right. There's something off in the recent vote changes but I can't put my finger on it.

[Titus]

Spring, your world alone means nothing. Explain why you are conftown pkease.

[Titus]

The wagon on you has a lot of win and a crazy guy.

[Titus]

That's the sane head of win.

hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Antiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiheroooooooo

[Titus]

Crazy guy is meant in game only. Derp. I realized that could be taken personally.

[Titus]

The deadline was expanded. With the weekend, we should be treated it as closer.

Objectively, we should limit votes to Spring, Z, Dryfit and Me at this point.

[Titus]

we prefer to be called sanity-challenged

anyway...

it's not ZZZX, titus. mastin's right, he's townflailing.

Explain please. I haven't liked much of anything from them lately.

[Titus]

**** this.


Everyone runing a freaking meaningless wagon on me. I feel ashamed of how town isnt freaking seeing this. Springflower is OBV scum and titus is playing shitty with his naked vote making him appear more scum. At everyone asking about the TBC. Do I have time to make a read when i am freaking trying not to get lynched?


**** this again

Vote: ZZZX

Finish this and put me out of my misery.
Anyone who played a freaking damn game should know this is my playstyle. Yet I played with half the people on my wagon and they are "Ok with a ZZZX lynch" as a ****ing case... REALLY?


Actually I dont even care anymore. lynch me and I am not defending myself any more. Deaf people are gona stay deaf no matter how freaking hard I screamed,.

This is survalist. He's suddenly switched personalities to trolling.

His whole lost reads is survslust.

A readwall with a lot of TBD is survivslust.

[Titus]

Survivalism is scum and so is evasion. Evasion is a tool of survivslists.

[Titus]

No. A scum's mindset is to survive as long as possible. If a player is a VT, they should play balls to the wall. VTs don't play to survive. PRs shouldn't be reckless but be willing to die if it outs scum. Hell PRs even should want a moderate amount of suspicion yo avoid the NK.

There is a blatant difference between being survivalistic and defending. Survivalistic tends to adopt whatever position will not get thrm lynched. Defenders try to crack yhe game. ZZZX's I give up did nothing to progress the game.

[Titus]

No. A scum's mindset is to survive as long as possible. If a player is a VT, they should play balls to the wall. VTs don't play to survive. PRs shouldn't be reckless but be willing to die if it outs scum. Hell PRs even should want a moderate amount of suspicion yo avoid the NK.

There is a blatant difference between being survivalistic and defending. Survivalistic tends to adopt whatever position will not get thrm lynched. Defenders try to crack yhe game. ZZZX's I give up did nothing to progress the game.

I think here we are down to the meaning put on words and town. What you are describing as Survivalistic to me is evasive. Any town should have a mindset to survive as long as possible to put pressure on scum, it can involve aggressive actions that ensure town survival.

Ok, well we disagree here. ZZZX was trying to evade providing real content and have PPL go lol selfvote town. That's scummy.

Considering we have a language barrier, why don't we sit down and figure things out? Pick a null player on your list and let's talk.

Nero, that's not black and white thinking to say a behavior us scummy.

[Titus]

SKOT can you rephrase? Your post makes no sense.

[Titus]

@Xay, well you moved the gialpost. No problem though. It's still shitty. Thor has done a hell of a lot of pushing.

@PN, what does that even mean?

[Titus]

@Thor, I feel Antihero is actually the better head. Mastina confbiases everything. A reachout usn't really a tell but it's used as a method of listening imo. Both factions can do it. You wouldn't call it a reachout but they exist in almost everygame.

@EddieFenix, Now that you got your IIoA out of the way, care to scumhunt or are you content just sitting on a fence?

[Titus]

I don't think anyone is talking with Mastin. He's just yelling the same shit over and over again.

Also, where the fuck are you getting I am tepid ("lukewarm or unenthusiastic")? That's not true of me regardless of alignment. Rage on town ignoring ibvscum Doublade. Pissed off when people make false cases.

I do agree with what has to hapoen. People should have to make a major case if there's at least one other person on the wagon. If it doean't take off by 1 day remaining, move or clsim scum. If you are by yourself, move or claim scum

[Titus]

I feel your attitude is tepid. You are extroverting emotions, but I do not believe they are reflected by your in-game acts.

When I have rage that people are ignoring scum - I am constantly talkign about the scum (and voting them) you are doing neither with Doublade.
I have discussed the issue with Xay - I still stand by the opinion that your defense felt weird. Also, if bad cases were all going to be attacked, you should not have time for anything else.
You also are focusing oddly on a weird slap fight with Mastin, complaining that they aren't listening, when, frankly, neither of you appear to be talking with each other - you are both talking at each other. I find it equally poor on both fronts, but don't get any more drive from you in that than I do from Mastin.

You also just sort of drifted onto the ZZZX vote. I am happy to have the support there, I will admit, but it's not like I feel you are excited by this wagon, it feels more like you're simply on it.

I did vote Doublade. I'm still saying Doublade is scum. However, I wasn't going to get a Doublade lynch. You yourself have said that players need to be closing the wagons. I took the initiative to do that. I am talking about Doublade but I feel like I might as well be talking to a brick wall. I put a case. People say it sucks. No reason why. I ask people defending Doublade, like Mastin, to say why Doublade is town or produce any content. I get nothing. So yeah, at some point I have to move over to get a lynch at all. Am I happy about it? Hell no.

I am trying to talk to Mastin. I'm using pretty much the same tone with both Mastin and Antihero but only Antihero seems to be responding. Mastin just says LOL! Nope Scum. That's not a conversation. That's a tape recorded message on loop.

The criticism on the ZZZX wagon is valid. It's not my favorite. I'd rather be voting for Doublade or Xay. Yet, those aren't going anywhere and we need a lynch. If a Doublade or Xay wagon sprung up fast, I'd be all over those.

[Titus]

ZZZX, I think you are not using the word valid correctly. A valid case is one that if it the premises are true then the conclusion is true. Thor's argument is valid.

If you lied about having reads, you are probably scum.

I don't think anyone debates that theory.

The debate comes from arguing whether or not you were lying. The evidence of you possibly doing something in a town game is relevant but not determinative in determining soundness.

Soundness is up for debate. I am sympathetic bc of what happened to me at the earlier point but I am not a fan of your reactions.

[Titus]

You keep saying that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Objection: Vague! Who is you? What is the word? Why do you think that person using that word doesn't know what it means?

[Titus]

Also you are not phoenix wright ace attorney .

Nope. Phoenix doesn't give categories. He uses a different system as he's japanese. Character wise, I'm most like his mentor.

[Titus]

Thor, Doublade is scum. Don't you see it now?

Spring, explain this please. You cannot be masons with yourself. You have one shot and that's being generous. I know I do not get gambits. That is the only reason my vote has not mived.

[Titus]

Oh, I didn't know Metal and Sakura were in this game.

Those are the heads of Spring Starflower.

[Titus]

@Titus - also, I'm already sick and tired of the pathetic slap fest that is talking to Antihero. You want to talk to him for a bit? Like, do you even kno wwhat he's going on about here besides sligning mud and making noise while doing nothing? Because he is like mud soup to me right now and I would happily talk to Mastin over that any day of the week.

Sub Mastin for Anti and Anti for Mastin and you get how I'm feeling.

Antihero was calling you a hypocrite for not being on the biggest wagon and being pissed that no one was run up to claim territory.

As for lynching Doublade after Spring flips scum, I'm for lynching Doublade regardless of what Spring flips as the pair have had no interaction that would cause me to revisit my read on Doublade. I'm usually not a fan of chaining lynches but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to predict my vote is going back to Doublade tomorrow morning.

I'm pretty much all set to lynch Spring, I'm just giving Spring one last chance to explain themselves as I'm terrible at reading trolls/gambits.

[Titus]

It's the part about you claiming innocent child and NOT being an innocent child. The part where you are not claiming your actual role, given we have less than a day left to lynch. The part where you don't defend yourself or provide reads beyond stating your town.

That's what I need explained.

[Titus]

VOTE: Spring Starflower

L minus 1. Spring has no intent to help out. Spring, in the rare event you are town, stop biting the hands that feed you.

[Titus]

@Thor then what did you think Anti said? I don't think his point is idiotic.

Yeah, alone it isn't a scumcase. IC fakeclaim + lack of cirrection + lack of defense + OMGUS reads + deadline + refusal to correct at latest opportunity.


@Jon, how nice of you to vote the counterwagon after the hammer.

[Titus]

@Thor, the hammer came down before I could reply to you yesterday.

I do feel Antihero's posts are engaging. Just because you cannot understand his posting does not mean there is no attempt to engage. In fact if there is game content you cannot understand, that makes it mire likely he is trying to communicate with you.

I stand by my interpretation of Antihero's post even if you think his play was "idiotic". If I am wrong, he can clarify.

Lastly, Starfliwer's refusal to claim and correct her prior claims and to give reasons on her scumreads was a scumclaim FMPOV. She should have resisted with sonething more than I sm conftown. Her scumreads are farcial and reasonless.


Now if you'll excuse me

VLA one week, moving

[Titus]

Mod can you add polarities to the dead list on the first post?

[Titus]

Oh I forgot

VOTE: Doublade

[Titus]

I'd still love to get a Xay wagon, but given that it isn't looking like I'll manage support for that I think it's far past time for VOTE: titus.

It's the start of a new day, and you think you can't get support for something? What the hell? And you are voting someone who is willing to vote Xay?

[Titus]

Also there is no way in hell a competent vig would have shot Shiny or Nero over someone like Saki, ZZZX, or Titus last night, therefor I think we probably either have an SK or are in multiball.

I can't really see a vig shooting Nero when he's blathering about his targets.

[Titus]

That wasn't a fucking buddy. That was me calling your ass out.

Again you say zero chance on Xay. It's a new fucking day. Your abandonment of the Xay wagon sucks shit. That's the point.

Oh you've been bulldogging townies? Just which townies have you been bulldogging?

[Titus]

TD, I wasn't offering. My point was plenty still scumread him. I want Doublade dead. Period. If you actually made a case people might vote for him. Nope you want easy pickings because you are afraid I might get Doublade lynched.

Nice flail. You accuse me of throwing random shit when you know you have nothing and I will likely be posting much less frequently. You are the one who wants easy over scummy.

[Titus]

Everything I said was true.
The rest is gibberish. "Accredit pity" huh? "His own he exempts" wth?

[Titus]

Ok I was wrong about MS but it cant help that he was playing so anti town (that he even claimed so after being lynched to avoid black listing)

I love how thor is like still playing blindly and votes without expinations. I will need to re-read this game so we can try and catch scum for real this time.

P-edit: What Scummy thing I did?

This post implies you weren't trying to catch scum before....

[Titus]

Pretty much. Starflower knew they were being anti-town. I agree with that. Asking for what he's being accused of makes sense.

Try to catch scum for real does imply that. Why would someone be faking trying to catch scum before? A town response would be to say maybe we'll catch scum this time.

[Titus]

Thor, most slips, if that's what it was, are not intentional. I have my doubts...hence the weaker language.

@ZZZK, remove the word try from that post and it conveys the same thing.

Mod: So tired...what is a deflector? Also my tracking the kill polarities would possibly determine polarities of killers possibly. So please add polarities of victims to the first post.

[Titus]

Really, no one is even considering Doublade as scum. When's the last time they've even TRIED to post content? I want Doublade dead today.

But sure, confbias Titus. Go ahead.

[Titus]

Jon, do you have any read on Doublade? If not, please make one.

[Titus]

Doublade pushes to cut off town conversation. Saki says hey at L minus 1 the day might be over, which serves to tell people not to vote to L minus 1 until they are ready for someone to die. Look at the motivation behind the trolling. Doublade's are to obscure people reading him. Saki's serve a function of getting reads. Who has the backbone? Who does not?

Why the hell are people starting to say Necro is a good choice? Mastina is being a stubborn idiot but the slot is not scum probably.

[Titus]

Hydraleak again.

Also did I translate you right at the end of the day yesterday? Thor was having issues with my translation.

[Titus]

VOTE: Xayzeck

I want Doublade but this is a decent second choice because people still will not vote obvscum.

[Titus]

The first sentence did Thor.

[Titus]

Hydraleak again.

Also did I translate you right at the end of the day yesterday? Thor was having issues with my translation.

what, about the whole "why haven't we run someone up to a claim yet?" thing? yes.

...and, as expected, thor thinks its dumb. jeez, what a shock. since apparently mastin is the only one good enough for him (because mastin wasn't overtly calling him scum), she can be the one to talk to thor whenever. i'm finished.

[Titus]

If Xay doesn't get people on it, I am going back to Doublade pending Thor's response.

VOTE: Doublade

[Titus]

Making a scum mindset there is easy. You win if people don't notice you edited it out. You win if they do bc you can clsim that would be too stupid for Thor scum.

I can't say I agree but there's enough there to make a case with.

[Titus]

Thor probably isn't scum, especially with how hard Doublade went after him.

[Titus]

Thor, I live in grey areas as scum. I do more with enhancing ambiguities than selective quoting. However, quoting out of context is pretty much the only way I ever get mislynched. That's what you did here to Necro. Intentional or not is bickering about alignment. I believe it was accidental but can I prove that? No.

[Titus]

(I love it when people try to use my own MD theory against me. It's fun watching their cocky smirks turn to horror as what sounded like a brilliant idea full of irony is revealed to be a wakening of a slumbering beast that is preying in a turf they are intimately familiar with, against prey that just now realizes they're in hostile grounds, and they realize that they had absolutely no clue what they were up against.)

I'm working through other things right now, nothing to do with Necro. I'm trying to answer one of my scum reads (Rach) as to why I've been scum reading them, practically since I replaced in, but this post caught my eye, and I couldn't help but chuckle at it. Just wanted to share some creative writing I liked. Necro's good at painting word pictures.

Well, I am one of the few that actually got Mastina lynched with her MD. I was scum though.That being said, I love it when a plan is destroyed and comes together.

[Titus]

Thor, that's a tomatoes tomatoes argument. Inappropriate context can be done by selective quoting or midification. That being said, I don't see myself voting you cuz Doublade is.

[Titus]

I am out for the day.

[Titus]

Look at any scumgame of mine.

[Titus]

I would find specifics and analyze but I have movers coming at 3. Look at minitheme UPick for the best examples.

[Titus]

Honey, it's best done subtle as a so and so said that without a quote. No two players play the exact same.

That's like me saying I never lurk therefore town. That's a null.

Now why don't you actually reply to Necro's response that I translated Anti right.

[Titus]

SKOT, quit beating a dead horse and scumhunt.

[Titus]

Maintained.

My posting is quite similar, otherwise I would be wagoned to death already. You are ignoring the game and using me as an excuse to vote park.

[Titus]

I politely refuse to do any sort of search for you cutting out a comment from a quote and denying it happened - I have no idea how to Ctrl+F that.

Way back in early 2012, I accidentally missed a bit of a quote. It wasn't important, and didn't change the meaning of what I wanted to convey. Scum jumped on it, and pushed it all the way to my first lynch. Someone will have to show clearly what scum Thor would have been trying to accomplish by missing it before I'd even consider the credibility of this tell. (I've got my own homework going on.)

@ Titus Good luck with the move. I hope everything goes smooth for you. Keep an eye on the movers, who knows, one of them might be scum.

The movers towned it up. I'm still in the moving process but all my shit's here.

[Titus]

Maintained.

My posting is quite similar, otherwise I would be wagoned to death already. You are ignoring the game and using me as an excuse to vote park.

okay-
I am not vote parking when I am convinced you are scum...
and your tone is quite different, you posting is not the same. There is a difference. Nothing I can point to objectively, but my experience of you is different.

Vote parking is vote parking regardless of how convinced you are.

You're not even paying attention to the game.

[Titus]

Thor, just admit you failed at a gambit and move on.

[Titus]

@Jon, it's easy to be right when you know the answers. In general, right or wrong is only a tell for certain players. Look at the strength of logic and the degree to which someone pursues their conviction. If you throw a dart board, you're likely to get most townreads right. Has anyone been proven right on a scumread? Nope.

[Titus]

Really PV, you do realize how unlikely it is Necro and I are both scum?

Oh that's right, you only care about mislynching.

[Titus]

Wow, can't lynch one obvious town, we all go to the other.

[Titus]

@RachMaire, Open 544 comes to mind but I don't think you were in that one.

[Titus]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... it=+backup

[Titus]

@Mala - I don't think you understand what the Necro thing is about if you're asking it to stop. I'm not scumhunting them - if that helps clarify. I also still fail to see Titusscum, give me a short and sweet version? Also, your take on ZZZX would be nice. You haven't even mentioned it I feel. What's up with that?

.

Easy version... scum don't want to hunt so they just park on me. There is no case on me, at all.

[Titus]

It's hard to make nothing interesting. I will try.

*crickets*

[Titus]

*interesting crickets*

[Titus]

I don't either. Skot just asked me to make it interesting. So I made the sound of norhing (crickets) interesting.

[Titus]

Maybe. ZZX what are your thoughts on Doublade?

[Titus]

Bleh I am sick of compromising and sitting alone on a wagon when no one can give a good reason why they are town.

[Titus]

If I had to, I would be willing to do Saki or Xayxeck atm but bleh.

[Titus]

Why bother, it's not like he's going to post anything anyways.

Then why aren't you bussing for towncred? I mean voting Saki.

[Titus]

I just said I am sick of compromising. Plus any wagon I vote on people hate on randomly. So maybe its best if I don't.

[Titus]

IT'S PRETTY FUCKING OBV THAT TITUS IS SCUM

ITS SO HARD TO GET A LYNCH ON HER. ITS NOT BECAUSE SHES #OMFGSOOBVTOWN. HER PRED SUCKED BALLS. THE SLOT IS SCUM.

._.

/capslockrageoff.

@PREDIT:

NO
BERT
NO
YOU LITTLE SCUMFUCK.

VOTE TITUS

No it's hard to lynch me because you have no case. Yelling at people and calling them my scumbuddies is not a case. Yeah, Bert was easy to persuade by doing that because a) he may be scum and b) Bert and I consistently wind up scumreading each other at some point.

[Titus]

Meanwhile, obvscum Doublade just lurks while we rip at each other's throats.

[Titus]

Yeah, it makes total sense.

People avoid a wagon bc Titus is on it.

I keep my vote and try to persuade my top scumread is scum. I don't plan on voting any other wagon, because I'll townfirm the scum unless given no choice.



Hello... there is literally NO CASE

and I'm half way to lynch.

I put a case on Doublade... no defense, just LOL Doublade is town.

[Titus]

I go from my biggest scumread to my next biggest. Scum can bus. If we couldn't vote a player bc scum was onthe wagon we would never win.

[Titus]

Again, you willing to provide more than crickets? Or will you face the obvious and vote Doub with me?

[Titus]

Again, you willing to provide more than crickets? Or will you face the obvious and vote Doub with me?

I have provided my thinking, and consider you scum based on your town and the differences I have observed. I cannot put into words and give anything objective on the difference, it just is what it is. Once I get you sorted then will take the info and adjust. Now, if you are not lynched today then will take another look. I was tempted to go Saki, but eh. I much prefer it Titus when I got a strong sense that you are town.

This is crickets. Gut is crickets usually unless you're seeing behavior from others that calls this into question.

[Titus]

/proddodge

ugh, my promises are empty.......
must...
fight...
apathy......

Wow my biggest pusher has apathy... praying for a deadline mislynch?

[Titus]

aw crap there goes any chance of lynching that slot who I still think is scum



Could you explain the case on Titus cause I really do not see it?

Partially drunk survivalism but

VOTE: Saki

[Titus]

Titus pushing a one-woman wagon is something I attribute to town titus then again town titus doesn't "survival vote" a scumread

I do when no one even listens to me, so we have no shot of actually lynching my top scumspect.

[Titus]

@Thor

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5391042

There you go. I was lynched day 1 anyway, so it didn't matter.

Survival votes are rare for me as town because it requires a) a wagon I feel can be scum and b) the wagon be chancable even when I'm the target.

[Titus]

sorry been busy, will get to this tonight or tomorrow.

When you do, I want to have an intelligent dialogue. What about this game is different than others? Why? How is it alignment indicative?

Also think about the amount of sheepage for an unexplained read.

[Titus]

Why not sub out?

[Titus]

Wow Tiphaine, obvscum more why don't you? Linking me to another highly suspected player in a manner that makes no sense (picked to vote him over Spring), you are using vla as a defense of another. Most would sub out if needing to be gone for months. Can you be any more desperate to mislynch me?

[Titus]

Oh you were about to vote Saki but his vla rescued him. Any excuse not to bus you need.

Peace out obvscum.

Gg no re.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Rated R joke

Dr. Pants is on my head. I hope he doesn't expect any favors.

[Titus]

Did you miss the part where he has been V/LA the whole game or are you being as intentionally moronic as scum-tus over there?

Did you miss the part where Saki thought it would be more pro his wincon to stay and not post content? Hellooooooooooooooooooooo scum

[Titus]

Because choosing not to replace out is a scumtell? Fuck that. Replacing out should never have a place in the strategy of a game, the fact that it does for some people honestly disgusts me. If life is hard or you don't have time or something happens IRL, whatever, you need to replace out, it happens. But replacing out as part of a strategy is pathetic and honestly if I had a choice people would get blacklisted and/or banned is it was ever discovered they'd done it.

/TD Rant.

Saki clearly didn't have the time for this. To stay on when you don't have time helps scum and not town. So yeah, I'll scumread her for not keeping up with committments and not replacing out. I don't know what, but something DID happen IRL.

That's not a "strategic" replace out. Using a replaceout to confirm alignment is strategic. Anything else is fair game. Sakura got in trouble for using it to confirm alignment but it's common for people to say you don't have the time sub out.

It's been three game days.

I see you recruited help in Jordan. How sad. Can't beat me with bullshit on your own TD even with Dr. Pants on my head?