Ikaruga Mafia (Game Over!)

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Random.org says
Vote: The Most curious thing
Countdown to see whose panties get in a bunch starts now...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oops didn't bold

vote: the most curious thing

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously my random vote is becoming the lynch target of the moment... interesting...
mastin sure likes to proclaim a lot quick.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

unvote: TMCT

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Post 48 is a scum post, and deserves votes VOTE: TMCT

oh, please, please tell me what is scummy about post 48. TIA

Vote: TiphaineDeath

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

VOTE: sharpest-knife-on-tree

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

What does TIA mean?

The second line is way overdone. It's saying "Hey look at how unconcerned I am about your scum read on me because I know I'm town and thus don't care what you think." And though the sarcasm is funny it doesn't make that line any less scummy.

TIA=Thanks in advance

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

What does TIA mean?

The second line is way overdone. It's saying "Hey look at how unconcerned I am about your scum read on me because I know I'm town and thus don't care what you think." And though the sarcasm is funny it doesn't make that line any less scummy.

so it is your perceptually placing tone on to the post and placing a quick value judgment on same

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh and 48 really does not even match your point. You have an exchanged with Antihero that is filled with sarcasm and wittical back and forth. You then have a sarcasitic jab at mastin wagoning TMCT. Nothing forced about it, just a sarcastic slap back. Your post reeks at stretching to find something scummy to point at to justify a direction.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh and 48 really does not even match your point. You have an exchanged with Antihero that is filled with sarcasm and wittical back and forth. You then have a sarcasitic jab at mastin wagoning TMCT. Nothing forced about it, just a sarcastic slap back. Your post reeks at stretching to find something scummy to point at to justify a direction.

You need to read up on chainsaw safety.

I play without a net, safey goggles, chain guard and other such safety precautions...
in other words I don't give a Flying fig...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

where is tso?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

nacho and rach also have yet to post...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

you sure like and dislike a lot fast Saki... keeping an eye on you...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Holy hell, you're actually scum.

thanks for trying though...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

would it have to be a sharp one?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

unvote

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

so there is now 4 small voting segments- JD, Xay, Necro (Mastin/Anti), and dry-fit. There is a good chance 1 of the power could be scum. Possible all not scum but it will be interesting to sort this out. Can anyone explain why voting some people with more than just "I don't like that one post" and "some random behavior is what scum do" and if you are doing either can you back up what you say. I have gotten tons of crap one way or another for "not explaining" things but see town read here, scum read there with such surety when right now all I am sure of is me. Thanks for any who oblige. (Countdown for someone calling this post scummy.)

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Five, six scum, right?

{Sharpest-knife-on-tree, The Most Curious Thing, Natirasha, talah, Xayzeck, Jordan_Downey, Aegor} is not going to be our scumteam. (In part because it exceeds the maximum by one. ) But it's a solid start.

FYI Mastin- I am peacebringer, FYI. You only briefly played with me in one game. I think you were scum in that game. I would love you to share your thoughts on what it is specifically that you think is something scum would actually do and why. Please illuminate for me what you thing I am doing that is being evasive or seeking to eliminate. TIA. Actually do the same for scum reads or is it just "I AM THE GREAT AND MIGHT MASTIN AND I PROCLAIM IT AND SO IT IS" kind of mindset and posting.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Nacho being town and guess TSO's town here, too

so you are so great and powerful that you "Guess" 2 people who have not checked into the game are town. Dangerous thinking imo.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

In particular Mastin, please demonstrate for all right now how your proclaim reads fit your golden rule:

Fit reads to evidence, not evidence to reads.

right now you are proclaiming reads with little evidence. Now others please tell me, is this town or scum Mastin. As right now is play is contrary to what he proclaims.

Vote Necro...

worth more pressure.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

You only briefly played with me in one game.

Yeah, but I've seen you around so I have a fairly decent idea of what you're capable of doing as town.

This...doesn't seem like it.

Your posting is empty. There's nothing there. Rock-solid, no, 'specially since I don't have that absolute familiarity. Decently-assured, yes, yes I am.

so you are so great and powerful that you "Guess" 2 people who have not checked into the game are town.

Yep! Pretty much.

Dangerous thinking imo.

Welcome to how I live my life.

doesn't seem like, please present evidence of same. You do realize I come from a completely different school of play then right? Although you did not really demonstrate any understanding of differences of other places to here in your article on same.

If you are familiar with me please describe for me, generally who I am. I tried an alt to try and blend in and learn the differences. I alt slipped so it became known. So please describe for me my play style in so many words. Then please tell me how you play so far matches what you say you attend to.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

right now you are proclaiming reads with little evidence.

Stated. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

(I love it when people try to use my own MD theory against me. It's fun watching their cocky smirks turn to horror as what sounded like a brilliant idea full of irony is revealed to be a wakening of a slumbering beast that is preying in a turf they are intimately familiar with, against prey that just now realizes they're in hostile grounds, and they realize that they had absolutely no clue what they were up against.)

I know perfectly well what I am doing and the direction I chose. No horror here from me. I know exactly what I am doing. And you my friend, are engaging in a very predictable response to me.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh, btw way I took a shot at your stated weakness before actually reading you plea but it has been spilling out all over this game... but whenever you care to "share your work" I will be open to slapping you upside your head with your wrongness.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I don't really hold that intimate familiarity. But I've seen your posting, well...the best term I can think of, is..."richer" than this.If I wasn't feeling so lazy, I could probably compile some of those games and show it, but that's the most apt description of it, boiled down to its most succinct central point. You're capable of more wealthy, lively, hearty posting. What you've shown hasn't been that. (That, I can show faster, but am still a little bit lazy. ) That's aside from the problems in post 341, of which there are multiple, that only add to it. (I probably will be explaining this one, but am...still incredibly lazy. )

we are 15 pages in. You will note that some of my "richer" content is either when I am focused on someone or tunneling or placed in a place of suspicion, often due to my differences with the culture here and my general way of engaging. Seeing how generally I keep a lot of thoughts to myself, particularly regarding completed peacebringer games. My intent with the alt was to be a bit more open with my play and discussion. I really like to see how you thought my play in the game we played in together was "rich." Of course you were a day 1'd bad guy and I ended up a night killed GG who folks should have listened to but I have not the cred or charisma to bring such and I don't always have "evidence" to things I sense, I just sense it. I have no sense right now as we are 15 pages in on day one.

Oh and I was not looking for tit for tat on your rules. I know you know your rules. My purpose was to engage you, and here we are. I haven't got enough yet to get a full sense of genuine or evasive mastin for myself. So I will keep picking and watching.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

also I really do have to laugh and someone calling my posting as rich. I come from a place where "shtick" is the rule of the day and that can be evidence by looking back a decade and folks like BabyJesus and others at that time. They quickly bored with here and I stuck around for a bit until I had enough. That was in the days of many no lynches and little actual engagement. So I do laugh at the "rich" description and an idea that my posts have "more content." LOL.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i love the meta-readers on mastin who blissfully ignore my meta-readers.

I am having fun picking at Mastin... I got nothing on you.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

and that is a really poor meta argument that is taking things way outside of this game that really has no relation to this game.
Oh and how are his forced tells any different then yours miss?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i love the meta-readers on mastin who blissfully ignore my meta-readers.

I see you draw scum a lot and win as scum a lot. So in other words you are very dangerous and probably very good and convincing others that you are not scum. So actually I prefer picking at mastin, you won't give me much to work off.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

on the otherside you can be of value to town Anti when you got your mind set to it. Will really get more from mastin.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

eh, I have tried pulling things from reading past games and I do not do a good job of reading those differences. I am more of what is going on in the moment and other stuff which is the tools used where I have played many many games. I cannot shake what do and I cannot do what others. So pointing me to completed games is all nice and shiny. And that being said, it really has nothing to do with games with you as a hydra with mastin which is a completely added dynamic and brand spanking new.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Not everyone, just the majority. Mastinwagons are never good wagons. Well, I suppose they are, but only in the sense that they generate a ton of info in a ridiculously short timeframe, but other than that, not really, 'specially not if they go to a lynch. (ScuMastin never gets lynch without her consent, pretty much.)It's not an ego if it has backing.

funny the one game I saw a mastin game, it was a good idea... as you were scum... lol.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

It's not an ego if it has backing.

careful your arrogance is showing

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i love the meta-readers on mastin who blissfully ignore my meta-readers.

I see you draw scum a lot and win as scum a lot. So in other words you are very dangerous and probably very good and convincing others that you are not scum. So actually I prefer picking at mastin, you won't give me much to work off.

everyone wins as scum a lot, that's the nature of this game. and it's not because i take people for a ride; it's because in those games, town was foolish enough to pretty much give me the game even though i was obvscum.

3 most recent scumgames
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=31479
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32351
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31754

oh and those were 2 micro games and 1 open game that you replaced out of. Not a worthwhile or applicable set of information if I was looking. 1 game you lurked, 1 game you had a gambit that worked. Points to you being dangerous and not one I am going to pull something directly useful out of.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

one of them is a large normal (picking simplicity) that was in central park

which you replaced out of...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh and those were 2 micro games and 1 open game that you replaced out of. Not a worthwhile or applicable set of information if I was looking. 1 game you lurked, 1 game you had a gambit that worked. Points to you being dangerous and not one I am going to pull something directly useful out of.

they don't feed your confirmation bias, and therefore you discard them? even though what i linked represents the entirety of my body of meta?

is this a fucking joke?

I don't have a confirmation bias as I am not looking at anything to confirm, other than you would be dangerous as scum and not likely to get the type of reactions that would be helpful for me. You suddenly throw out confirmation bias. The 3 games you linked is the entire body of your meta... you have other games, so that is not true. A micro game dynamic is a lot different as there is little room and things go quickly one way or another. No valuable information or reactions can be noted in a game you replaced out of. Now that was if I was any good at comparing behaviors in current and past games. You brought those games up for a reason and claiming it as sole meta is odd. Maybe I was wrong about getting useful reactions from you vs mastin after all.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i didn't actually replace out. i got lynched before then.

I just looked at your ISO- as again I am not a "tell hunter" nor a "meta hunter" but I did want to see what you did-

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Antihero gave his three most recent scumgames.
He picked them off of that criteria: MOST. RECENT.
They don't match your expectation of his posting. (Or his posting in here for that matter.)
You say, "bah, you have more games than that".

And you wonder why we scumread you, SKOT.

Know, I don't wonder. I pretty much expect it. Very common reaction because what you are basing scum reads on are complete absolute nonsense. I had no expectation of his posting. I don't play that way. I did not ask for "most recent." I looked simply at his general performance and saw plenty of scum wins. Posting style is something that is variable it is what is underneath and weather or not there appears to be evasion or seeking to eliminate vs searching and surviving. He set the criteria, I simply said it is worthless if one was going to tell and meta dive imo. As such, I am not a tell or meta dive player so my opinion is meaningless there.

p-edit- I see peri asked for the most recent. I skimmed that. Sorry, I skim a lot. See the Peacebringer title, imo.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i don't know. why don't you ask peregrine and SKOT since they're the ones who wanted it?

I didn't want it, I simply was saying I did not think I would get useful reactions from you and would rather pick at mastin. I referenced you winning a lot as scum. You claimed "scum wins a lot" as a retort and said you think you are obvi-scum when you are scum, counteracting my suggesting that you are dangerous scum. Since I do not meta dive and am not a tell driven player that is not something I ask for. I am looking to distinguish between differences in evasion and survival vs elimination and searching...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

if you don't want to use meta, THEN DON'T USE META.

if you want to act like i'm some diabolical scum genius, though, you're talking out your ass

I am not using meta other than meta came up as the source of your reaction, in particular to being called good at being scum. Now you have escalated that to diabolical scum genius. No, I did not put you in the category of people like say BabyJesus from way back in the day. That man was a diabolical scum genius. He don't play much these days.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oohhh since it's a large game people are expected to force reads out of their asses

is that what you're trying to convey here

certainly seems like it

if the very fact that mastin is making reads lists is yall's issue with our slot, i'm fucking done

seriously

this is a strawman argument. Followed by time to go bye bye. Set up the strawman and retreat.
No, I poked at the quick reads without basis. I think I made a jab at that before reacting to TipDeath's stuff.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

this is a strawman argument. Followed by time to go bye bye. Set up the strawman and retreat.
No, I poked at the quick reads without basis. I think I made a jab at that before reacting to TipDeath's stuff.

this is confirmation bias.
this is "i won't listen to a goddamn thing you have to say because i've made up my mind"

my hypothesis is that you are dangerous as mafia.
Your games support that you dangerous as mafia as you won 2 games, all be it micro.
Please tell me how I am dismissing facts to support a hypothesis. Or please tell me how I am interpreting evidence contrary to facts.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

You claim Antihero wins as scum a lot.Antihero says that he doesn't really, and thinks himself obvscum.Antihero provides his most recent scumgames, where this is demonstrated.They do not match your version but match his.You post "you have more games than that" as an accusation against him that he's selectively showing games.And you are also saying our reaction to seeing this train of thought is expected. (Of scum, presumably.)

I made an error in saying he draws scum a lot. I misread one of his columns. But let us look at that facts of his games played.
25 total complete games.
Drew scum role 8 total times. He won as scum a total of 6 times. He lost 1 time in a multi-ball game. He lost once as a SK. That is a high win percentage as scum.
Scum won 16 of the games he played. So 8 games scum won when he was not-scum. 9 times town won when town.
So tell me how the facts do not support that he is dangerous scum. Now the #s may differ when you factor out micro games or not but I am not a math guy either. I do skim and make errors.
Now, what I said was that the "reaction" to me is what is expected. The quick scum read on non-sense. Go look at all the completed PB games. Go back to the completed game we were both in Mastin. I did replace into that one though, so this is first game you had with me cold.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

getting a scum win hardly qualifies someone as "dangerous"your hypothesis remains woefully inadequately supported

sure, your scum play does not pose risk of physical harm, so if you are referring to that definition of dangerous, then no.

Do you win a lot as scum, yes. Does that make you dangerous scum, yes. Can you pull out a great game as town. Yes.
Basically you have managed to win if scum outside of a multiball and a serial killer. Yes, that makes you dangerous as scum. I find it really eyebrow raising that you are even making an issue out of this and do not understand what the town motivation would be for making a big deal out of it. It is vexing if you are town. No where did I ever say that scum won solely on the basis of your play. I made a quick determination with some facts which are a lot stronger than the empty "scumread" voiced my your slot. So please explain to me why not dangerous. In fact, someone who is "obviscum" by their own opinion but still manages to win and convince others not to string them up is in my book dangerous scum. This is support by the #s and your own self perception of your own play.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Oh, and I did have one premise that proved faulty anti. I had a premise that your reactions would not be interesting. I was wrong. That premise proved false.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

For mastin and others. Where I come from this is what a typical day one is where I come from.
Schtick, more schtick, voting for silly reasons. At some point a wagon starts and sometimes a counter wagon. It builds or moves. Folks are brought to a claim. Claim evaluated and either move on for another claim or a decision to lynch. Generally the longer the day one the better things have tended to be for finding scum. You would not find the kind of stuff you see over here. Entirely different style of play. I am working to adapt but the "reactions" I am talking about are the ones I got from TipDeath and Mastin. Interestingly enough there has been less reaction here than I have been getting. Do not know what to make of that. So, I decided to start picking at someone that was among the 4 wagons to see if that was a direction to go. And here I am. Playing with what I know to do, coming from an entirely different day one perspective.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously, that's how i feel like you're talking to me, peacebringer.

yes, I am purposefully picking at things. There is no malice here though, no ill will, just trying to gauge the slot. I can get very aggressive in my picking at things. However, it is not really about the "minor" details with me but the overall picture. Right now I sense some evasion, this in turn results in more picking. Sorry if it is frustrating. It is one of the things I do.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Oh, and I did have one premise that proved faulty anti. I had a premise that your reactions would not be interesting. I was wrong. That premise proved false.

you didn't capitalize "anti" in the first sentence.

interesting.

btw, my response to such a statement is "and, so what." the reactions that I get from you are quite different than that. Now granted I don't know you or mastin for that matter. I have no baseline on your reactions and reading past games does not give them to me. I do know there is an evasive feel. Now not all evasion feels are scum driven and can be "hyper-survival" reactions or other factors. I have no information other than what mastin has said and taught compared to what she is doing here. Your reactions became a side-note.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Oh, and I did have one premise that proved faulty anti. I had a premise that your reactions would not be interesting. I was wrong. That premise proved false.

you didn't capitalize "anti" in the first sentence.

interesting.

to help you understand my perspective a little better. The response I tend to get around here is "you didn't capitalize 'anti' in first sentence. Only scum do that, you must be scum"

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Oh, and I did have one premise that proved faulty anti. I had a premise that your reactions would not be interesting. I was wrong. That premise proved false.

you didn't capitalize "anti" in the first sentence.

interesting.

to help you understand my perspective a little better. The response I tend to get around here is "you didn't capitalize 'anti' in first sentence. Only scum do that, you must be scum"

and that is how I "felt" about TipDeath and mastin's reactions to me. I decided to pick and mastin preciously because she would react and was one of the current wagons. I have no information on the other 3 on way or another.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

one more thing anti- I was completely ignoring you until you said, well why is no-one picking on me. So I took a look at your wiki, saw a lot of mafia wins (only looking at results column) and went oh my, dangerous and made such a statement and now here we are. (yes I know that sentence is gawd awful.)

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

caled:

the reason this is so soul-suckingly infuriating is the nature of the jabs. i feel like the majority of the thrust is "OMG mastin has reads on people who didn't post or unexplained reads. burn the witch!" (not a scumtell) and "policy lynch because i don't like antihero or mastin or both" (which is thinly veiled behind "no good reads" or some arguments that's just transparently crap).

yes, there are scum on this wagon, but knowing there are town that are on this wagon for all the wrong reasons (wanting to "clean up" the thread) is taxing and it actually kind of hurts.

talk about setting up a strawman...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Some of you need to settle down a tad


BTW Sharp we know you are Peacebringer you do not have to keep bringing it up. I have noticed you use your old account meta to justify how you play on THIS one. If you were going to do that why did you change your name?

I was trying to do different when I alt slipped... and that put it in the crapper.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

TiPDeath- we played the same game I played with mastin in before. You were dead set I was scum there and were wrong. Maybe you can do better if town this time.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Come on Xay, was 461 sarcasm? Cause I don't think it was but it was so bad it sounded like it through the goddamned internet. Do you even know what the term bus means?

SKOT, I've been out for awhile and my memory was never the best, feel like throwing me a link to that game?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=30965

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I'm reasonably certain it's dumb and scum actually.

only ones not really dumb at this point are scum...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh and xay's posts to me have a tone of trying to sort things out and sharing opinions. Nothing scummy about that at all.

TipDeath... please share elements of what you think about Necro's game. What about their reactions seem town to you?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Mastin's thought process is readily followable, he seems perfectly willing to engage, and has been giving reads I understand and often agree with. He hasn't yet done anything that particularly pinged my scumdar.

nothing of what you point out there is inherently scum or town. It can easily be done evasively.

as to your antihero comment- so what you are saying is that the reaction seems genuine and townish. that could be more a town swing. I am waiting to see more as there seemed to be some evasion to me as well.

Forgive me if I do not have a lot of faith in your perspective. I have not seen you do well and seen you suckered in past by someone that appeared 1000% scum and was. Again, that was past this is now. I am wading my way around here.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

xay's posts to me have a tone of trying to sort things out and sharing opinions

*looks at 461*

But I appreciate the compliment nonetheless

not really a compliment but a sorting out... now perhaps you are so good at appearing the way you are to be able to pull it off as scum, I don't know, I just go by my gut response here.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

appeal to proficiency

appeal to proficiency. Sorry it is not an appeal, it is a discussion. If you want to engage in the logical evaluation of my comment.

My experience with TD indicated poor reads and poor play
My Experience with TD indicated was easily suckered
My premise is that TD takes null behavior and views such behavior as town or scummy
He then proceeds to view things from that filter...
therefore my trust and observation is not trust TD's perspective until demonstrated. Now how that fits your so called "appeal to proficiency" would be interesting.

FYI, just when I am on the verge of reconsidering and closing the book, you come out with such a post.

And you also like to throw out "Confirmation bias" some more, is that like your favorite defense. Please indicate how I am only viewing one side of the facts. My reaction to TD's comments? They are what they are. I have not made a conclusion other than it is worth my while to explore your interactions and seen enough to have me vote you and nothing has cleared my suspicion. You act as if I have a set mind here and that I am proclaiming like others might to lynch you as scum or else. Not what is going on here at all. The minute though I start to consider in my mind setting things aside, Antihero, you come and post stuff like that. What is a guy to do?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously

"you suck so i'm not going to listen to you"

and

mastin

is the arrogant one here?

p.s. - oh, and just because you said it in a more passive-aggressive way doesn't mean i'm strawmanning you, because i know you're going to accuse me of that

no that was not strawmanning. That is calling me to carpet on a tone. I have a bad experience in a game with TD, it is what it is. I don't pussy foot around and I would say I was rather direct in my comment about it and not sly or underhanded, passive aggressive response, rather straight to the point.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously

"you suck so i'm not going to listen to you"

and

mastin

is the arrogant one here?

p.s. - oh, and just because you said it in a more passive-aggressive way doesn't mean i'm strawmanning you, because i know you're going to accuse me of that

arrogance is being better than everyone. For this culture, I am not. Yet, pointing out an experience where that gives me little faith, is simply that. Having little faith in someone can be an error and having too much faith. My point to TD is that as town (and right now am reading TD as town) it is easy to place faith in things that mean little, like what happened before and to look askew at things that are null. I am sure TD probably has had better games. In general my games here have not been brilliant. I fully recognize I am different and trying really hard to not be an arrogant ass. Yet, when I get aggressive and reactive certainly the arrogant ass side of me can come out.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

is your sample size one game?

...

you know what i'm going to tell you next, right?

But for me, an intuitive type, is not about sample size. Every game is its own sample, and this is an entirely different game, with different responses. My sample size of TD is one game to my knowledge, yes. The behavior fits that previous game and seems on par. Thus the town read at this point for me. I can be fooled. Experience builds, yes. Now you are pointing sample size and you pointed to 3 recent games, one where lynched when asked to be replaced out, and 2 micros.

So, let me ask you this Anti- you have a sample size of me of zero completed games. Mastin has a sample size of 1 completed game. Yet, that was enough to proclaim a read without anything behind it? Hell, mastin probably did not even attend to me in that one game. Can one only have reads or reaction to folks if one has extended sample sizes? No, I don't think so. We all have experiences. the experiences shape our decisions whether the are sound or not. Now, as far as TD goes, probably the null behaviors TD looks at has resulted in scum, so reinforces that behavior as being "Scummy" as a scum was found based on that behavior in past. So then the behavior is repeated and intermittently reinforced. Making it hard to shake.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i'm serious.

you don't get to join a game knowing full well there are hydras and then policy lynch.

we were first. replace out.

I think it now is more about how obnoxious you hydra is with no body and 2 heads posting from your individual accounts. It is annoying. I Could be wrong though.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i'm serious.

you don't get to join a game knowing full well there are hydras and then policy lynch.

we were first. replace out.

I think it now is more about how obnoxious you hydra is with no body and 2 heads posting from your individual accounts. It is annoying. I Could be wrong though.

that being said, I would not advocate a policy lynch... and anyone voting for that stated reason is concerning...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

nonono, not the sameyou weren't talking about a read on Tiphaine, you were talking about his overall skill level and extrapolating that you shouldn't listen to him in this game because he got burned in another game.if getting burned in a game disqualified someone's judgment, we shouldn't be listening to.... anybody

that is YOUR PERCEPTION on my words. I know what I meant. I am not referring to TD's overall skill level. I have a bad experience with TD. I have no reason to trust his reads. I think I have a handle on why TD has developed certain reads. I personally have no reason to trust him. Now that is a "personal bias" based on my own experience and not grounded in fact, much like folks that point at me off the bat do so largely off of personal bias or faulty perceptions on null behaviors. We all have our own personal biases, period.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i will ask my dear associate to throw a sharp knife at the target

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh and basically my comment to TD is meant to say, wake up, don't do what you have done before, show me something better as right now it does not appear to be better... my own bias and a slap upside the head saying please don't do that again.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Metal Sonic, I don't think actual content of the posts matter that much to anti. He's playing is own game. They are both overconfident, with anti being emotional and seemingly cranky.

Anti you are the only person continuing to bring up the hydra comment. Maybe on sign up he didn't realize how many? He also didn't try pressing the issue, didn't try to press a vote. Yet you keep bringing it up ... Why?

Also, is there a reason everyone can't just make one post instead of several little ones?

sorry, it is what I do, it is what I am used to and I such at "Multi-quotes" and don't like editing stuff in, hell I don't even edit my own posts for clarity. I have done this forever and it is not going to change. (That being said, if I hadn't alt slipped I probably would have made a different effort level on some of that stuff). Where I come from a small paragraph is considered a wall. There is not much verbosity in posts.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i will ask my dear associate to throw a sharp knife at the target

cool

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

wait... there ate 8/12 votes on Necro already?!?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!?!??!

i did not notice that!!

yes, interesting is it not, of particular the 3 that hopped on once I started poking at Necro...well on is aegor, and then there are the other 2...
too interesting to make a change in course at this point...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

It is also interesting it went from 4 close wagons around the same votes to necro jumping at 8 and lynch bait Xay with some stragglers...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Spring, you get that if fear is scum Xay is his buddy right? I'm honestly a lot more confident in my Xay read than my fear read. You should either try to convince people or come join me.

naw, xay is lynch bait town imo...
fear may be bad...
things need to play out some more...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

since there's no real substance, there's no argument to be made.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

so yeah. the discussion is unproductive. i agree. i didn't make it that way, though.

actually you did not provoke me, mastin did... so I poked back hard. Then you asked what about me too... and here we are...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Just cause the guy calling you a racist is racist does not make you less racist.

Jest sayin'

TD, what do you think, am I at the point I was in that other game where I can back off the aggressive poking at a player? Eh, they might actually have to recognize something. But, bah, that helped get me all killed anyway.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Didn't you get NKed in that game?

yup, that is what I am saying at the end. I got something sorted for myself (not for you) but ended up dead by NK.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

no, but I see the other party got night killed as well. I was asking you about backing of pressure as in enough to as enough evidence gathered in the poking. Not about the results of being NK'd. That part did not work out so well. But I get reactive...like I said.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I also by nature take risks in my play... and stuff sometimes just happens.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

In other words, what do you think, time to back of Necro yet?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

guess anti ain't finished yet... he wants more poking... lol

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

mastin's trouble some posts without anything backing

30
38
40
46
80
81
82

then related directly to me
233
337
she also hinted of you having suspicion but I don't think Identified that post, I don't remember.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I'm glad you translated, I had half a paragraph ready making fun of the grammar in that first sentence.

Here's the thing, in your position i would definitely not have backed of necro at this point, I would probably have stopped crafting arguments against him, but would have left my vote there to see if I could draw in scum to an enticing eight vote wagon that simulates real pressure because the impression of the pressure you were putting on would linger for awhile.

However because you asked me that question the above theory is moot, so yes, I think it is time to back off of necro.

yes, I realize that last statement, and by so doing took the discussion a different take. There are reasons I took this tact instead. Anti still wants pressure though, so I am happy to oblige. Some folks are just donkey-headed.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

these were all in the first four pages... what kind of "backing" is anyone expecting besides early game gut...?

you tell me, cause folks around here sure pretend that there is...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

these were all in the first four pages... what kind of "backing" is anyone expecting besides early game gut...?

you tell me, cause folks around here sure pretend that there is...

In fact my posts basically making comments on quick like and dislikes of said Saki lead to Mastin's boldly proclaiming me #1 scum leading to the grand poking...and then you said me too, and here we are...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

unvote

... will take a look at things later... that all has been fun...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

hey, we're in this slot together. you take on mastin, you better believe i'll get involved.

well you reactions were probably more helpful at the core imo...I think I mighta sent Mastin on tilt if she stuck around...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

you miss 4-5 days, things tend to stack up. The rate appears to be about 4.5 pages per day.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Can you remind me what white nights refers to? (Is it indirectly protecting?)

no, it's directly protecting.

it's scummy because, as town, you should be skeptical of

everyone

coming into the game (since everyone has the same chances of drawing scum). picking out someone you think is "lynchbait" and chainsawing for them out of the gate is bad town play (which is why Slayer's Gambit doesn't work).

however, there's plenty of reason for scum to white knight; namely, because they already

know

their "lynchbait princess" that they're valiantly riding to rescue is town.

Oh good lord, it is this kind of expectation and logic that is horried and strongly Confbias as you like to point out. I deal with behavior. If I see behavior that I think is poor I will react to it. EIther as town or scum. It is in my nature to do so. If I WK as scum I am doing so with a specific intent regarding someone that may help me evade and eliminate. We all make choices as we sort through and folks defend people they think are town and attack those think are scum. You have to look at behaviors in context and interpret. Looking at certain behavior as scum and interpreting every occurrence will net you scum but will net you a lot of mislynch as well. Tons of confbias if you note.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Antihero gave his three most recent scumgames.
He picked them off of that criteria: MOST. RECENT.
They don't match your expectation of his posting. (Or his posting in here for that matter.)
You say, "bah, you have more games than that".

And you wonder why we scumread you, SKOT.

Know, I don't wonder. I pretty much expect it. Very common reaction because what you are basing scum reads on are complete absolute nonsense. I had no expectation of his posting. I don't play that way. I did not ask for "most recent." I looked simply at his general performance and saw plenty of scum wins. Posting style is something that is variable it is what is underneath and weather or not there appears to be evasion or seeking to eliminate vs searching and surviving. He set the criteria, I simply said it is worthless if one was going to tell and meta dive imo. As such, I am not a tell or meta dive player so my opinion is meaningless there.

p-edit- I see peri asked for the most recent. I skimmed that. Sorry, I skim a lot. See the Peacebringer title, imo.

My last game with you I found you town on initial read, but I remember it moved to an (incorrect) scumread. Went to check it, and found this! HA!

Ok, it seems you were pushing me for being scummy because IU replaced into a scummy katsuki slot, claimed confirm-able role, argued with you, etc.

Anyways, needed to clear that in my own mind.

yeah, sadly the kat slot in that game was one where I tried to look at meta and make a comparison and sucked horridly at it.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Said completed game didn't really factor in at all, btw. I didn't know you were peacebringer because I didn't care to know. I've seen you elsewhere. Just 'cause you don't see my name doesn't mean I'm not a player (I have a laundry list of undisclosed alts), and I read (well, skim) a ridiculously high number of games that I'm not in. (Which does factor into my treatment of you, in that it's kinda difficult to explain the perspective without revealing too much.)

well you have seen me elsewhere then what else do I go by elsewhere? Peacebringer is what I have used in some other locations. The main site I have played at for over a decade and where it deviated from is something else entirely. If you truly have read me elsewhere, then you know that my engagement here is pretty on part with elsewhere and add in responses to completely different styles. You should be smarter then that and also realize that I can get reactive and start poking when I think there is a bunch of non-sense going on.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

High win percentage != competency. Eight scum games is not a large sample size. If his win percentage was near-100% with that number of scumgames and he joined the site within one or two years? Sure, yeah, it'd be significant. If his win percentage was that high with a significantly-larger sample size with his current number of games? Sure, yeah, it'd be significant. But he's been here for five years. That's an average of 1.5 scumgames per year. You're effectively using a sample size of one or two, in spite of saying it's larger, because scumgames/year is far more important the statistic to scumgames overall. Also, maybe different or maybe along the same lines, food for thought: if a veteran that had won ten scumgames in 2004 came back and lost a scumgame today, what would your thought on that be? The stats say they've got a high win percentage as scum. The numbers say competency as scum. Just a fluke? Or maybe, just maybe, they're not nearly as competent now as they once were.

this is a completely dumbfounding thing for someone who has claimed to "read me" elsewhere statement to make and is directed at others and not me as if you know me, you know I don't give a damn about that. I look, I see a lot of scum wins and only 2 losses, one as a serial killer, 1 as multi-ball. If you take those 2 out, that is a high # of wins with no losses as straight scum. The 2 I looked at that he posted was one win with lurking behavior and 1 with a gambit. We may debate left and right what is or is not "dangerous." Note I said he is dangerous, not highly competent, the best scum ever. I said he is good scum and evidence points to said fact. Now you add in some expanded time shift over and above reasonable to try and make a point. Also you keep referencing confirm bias, that is you and your pal. It is like this catch phrase you treat those who disagree with you as. If have truly been exposed to me outside of MS, then you know I constantly am looking at things from many angles. I can get many bad theories and certainly can get confbias from time to time. We all can. There is nothing in what you have discussed that is inherently evasive or seeking to eliminate.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

So basically......You expected us to scumread you for posting non-sense.Nonsense that would be true our alignment regardless.Nonsense we would therefore call you out on our alignment regardless.What do you gain from it, then?

Oh good lord, you scum read me on "nonsense" and things of your own vain imaginations. Here, I expect to get a reaction because I don't play by the gotta make sure everyone likes me and got to match up with a set of expectations on what people do. I am myself. You get the good, the bad, and the ugly. This is true when I am scum and town. FYI- I have a tendency to be more concerned about what others might think when I am scum. This is known by those that have played with me for over a decade. It is a fact and it is a by product as well as how I play. I cannot do differently, I am who I am and my brief foray into trying and alt before an alt slip even made me aware more of this.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

In post 478, Sharpest-knife-on-tree wrote:Forgive me if I do not have a lot of faith in your perspective. I have not seen you do well and seen you suckered in past by someone that appeared 1000% scum and was. Again, that was past this is now. I am wading my way around here.First half does not mesh with the second half, especially given: In post 413, Sharpest-knife-on-tree wrote:I am not using meta other than meta came up as the source of your reaction, in particular to being called good at being scum. (Different context, but shows how he treats meta all the same.) In post 401, Sharpest-knife-on-tree wrote:I am not a "tell hunter" nor a "meta hunter" but I did want to see what you did- YET MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, In post 384, Sharpest-knife-on-tree wrote:eh, I have tried pulling things from reading past games and I do not do a good job of reading those differences. I am more of what is going on in the moment and other stuff which is the tools used where I have played many many games. I cannot shake what do and I cannot do what others. So pointing me to completed games is all nice and shiny. And that being said, it really has nothing to do with games with you as a hydra with mastin which is a completely added dynamic and brand spanking new. Bolded: his stated preference of living in the now, not the past. Yet when TD is playing in the present and raising points that may hold validity, does SKOT pause to consider them?No. He goes into the past, pointing to completed games which is all "nice and shiny" as he puts it. When he himself has admitted that it was a completely different dynamic. Antihero said it well: dismissing via a reverse 7-for-7 ("you were wrong before, you're wrong again"), when there were legitimate points that by SKOT's own philosophy should have been listened to.(I will be going over SKOT's posting in this range in more detail later, though, to give you a better idea of how it makes me feel about SKOT. If I had him as my strongest scumread, you'd see me voting him, but I'm not.)

I like all am inconsistent. I look at patterns and reactions. When I say not a "tell hunter" or "Meta hunter" it does not mean I never use such tools. It means it is not my strength and I don't spend a lot of time trying to use those tools. I am not detail oriented to pick up on slight minor details that break one open as scum. I will not pick up on a subtle change in language or such that gives me an ah-ha that is scum. I need data, the more data I get the more I have to react to. Often times I have my gut response. Sometimes I get a lot out of poking and getting reactions like I have from you 2. You have taken my taking each game as it comes mind set but ignoring my talk about we all have experiences. I did not say totally ignore the past. And note, in all my poking and prodding and the vote I have not once called you scum. I have stated that I was drawing reactions and this is preciously what I did. I have in fact seen enough and felt I engaged in enough prodding after getting irritated with the idiotic scum read, which is even now more idiotic given your proclamation of being familiar with me from elsewhere. Please feel free to identify names I go by elsewhere when I don't go by peacebringer. TIA.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Let's do it the other way.

7. Zdenek
2. Doublade (Marquis/Caledfwitch)
1. Shiny Hydreigon (Wisdom/Notscience/Ms Marangal)
5. PeregrineV
3. Saki
4. ZZZX
6. Spring Starflower (Metal Sonic/Sakura Hana)
14. MafiaSSK
22. RachMarie
8. TiphaineDeath
12. Nachomamma8
13. TSO
10. Dry-fit
19. Fear (Yessiree/Emogirl123)
17. Xayzeck
11. The Most Curious Thing
15. Natirasha
21. Aegor
16. Talah
20. Jordan_Downey (Jingle/Aphix)
9. Sharpest-knife-on-tree

Positions again highly fluid, but I think this gives a general feeling of where I am.

this is where you moved me to #1 scum mastin, and now you want to say that I was not #1 scum... for shame... it was your nonsense here and statements like "your content is not 'rich' and other malarkey that sent me to bulldogging you for reactions...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

(both emotion driven posts now to fact driven posts after being called out) furthers my concern on that slot.

being less pissed off after having time to cool down is apparently a scumtell

you're rooting for things to find now and it's obvious

Lets look at it from my view. I think your posts are fake. The anger from you, the poke everybody from mastin seemed fake. You get called out on it. Your wagon hasn't gone away. So you change posting styles. That doesn't seem to be as much 'time to cool off' as changing your play style as your previous one wasn't working.

this is an interesting statement and would be interested into what the basis of the premise that the emotion is fake... I am pretty sure it wasn't, as I have a good gauge usually of emotion pointed my way...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

It's just a feeling I have from reading the posts. That have gotten stronger the more they are posting.

if you are intuitive, and go by feelings, you know that you have work to do to sort out the accuracy of what you are feeling. There are multiple variables that result in impairing the accuracy of the intuition.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Guess what: so do we.We saw behavior we thought was poor from you, and...we reacted to it.Tell me, given that we'd react to it as town or scum, you gained...what, exactly, from doing it?

the "post" you reacted to was simply probing saki... instead you jump at it and go off and running and then annoy me to the Nth degree calling me # one scum. You seem to be arguing that if what I play draws attention to me then why do it. It is what I have always done. I cannot do any differently. It just is how it is. I don't even think about it and reactions happen. I can try and play nice but I will do things that bring reaction. It just is what it is.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

e on the site. As in, here. On mafiascum. Seeing (and maybe playing in) some of your other games. (And if as a player...with ME as the player using a different name.)For instance, looking at your peacebringer account avatar, I'm positive we've played more than just one game, but if you can only think of the one, fairly certain that means we played another with me as an alt (or hydra, but probably alt). Now apply that just to you being SKOT instead of peacebringer.

you simply said elsewhere, elsewhere meaning not here. My engagement in the recent iterations here are limited and not many. I only recall one game here with a known hydra. There may have an alt or another that is not memorable. So you then are limited to the mafiascum motif and culture and still looking at it from that bias. You called my comments less rich but in the PB games from the past year I got overwhelmed by the current culture and would have a hard time considering there having much "depth" or "richness" to my plays and included my stubbornness over not wanting to explain my thinking because the dynamic here really did not make sense. So I shift to an alt and then alt shifted. Yet, my basic nature still came out.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

s is a dodge of my point. You ignored TD altogether. You didn't consider his points. You didn't analyze them and reject them as having been invalid. You didn't think about whether they were true or not. You didn't think about the points in the present. Instead, you brushed it aside in favor of the past.There's a difference between not entirely living in the present (what you're claiming) and entirely ignoring it. (What I saw you doing.)

I did not ignore TD. Before you exploded with your morass I had made a comment to TD about the reaction and even through a vote. I had not immediately recalled the history with TD until I went back and read. Then we had a little bit of an exchange and understanding. And please note, I have not said I live "entirely in the present" that is a misrepresentation or misunderstanding of my point. I take each game as it comes. Each game is going to involve me and my experiences. You cannot separate them. You have your experience. Also, just because I say nothing, does not mean I ignore something. However, with TD I did not ignore, nor did I take as serious. I took it more serious when I went back and looked at a past game for other reasons that they were in as well. Now, if you have insight into my head then perhaps you can say what I did or did not do. I did not voice much but did more as the game went along. This is just a valid as your having "reasons" that you do not share for what appears to be baseless reads. Instead, you jump to conclusions and as you and your partner like to point out, demonstrate significant confbias in regards to the engagement. And in our exchange, even now you have yet to acknowledge what this exchange was all about and continue to extend the conversation. So this exchange continues to the point where we may soon by simply ignored by most others.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

It seems to me that a tit for tat match has gone on between 2 players who face failed expectations. When I read over their interactions Mastin/Talah this is what I get. Sadly doesn't give me a good direction yet. Unfortunately they are both going to be stuborn and force the issue one way or another.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I believe mastin' read on talah.


But we can only lynch 1 scum per day so take it one step at a time

hydra slip again... lol

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I believe mastin' read on talah.


But we can only lynch 1 scum per day so take it one step at a time

fair enough... my impression can be wrong...

vote talah...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Did that response make sense to anyone?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

No really, anyone else who is paying the least bit of attention, did that talah vote feel like something the SKOT we've been dealing with all game would do?

Am I the only one who thinks he has been replaced by a radioactive space alien?

Like a really scummy radioactive space alien?

you still haven't learned have you, love the response though... gave me a good laugh...
here is the thing, the Mastin-Talah thing is going to keep on till resolved. You think they are both town. the MS hydra, which also read as town think Talah is scum. I ain't got one way or another. It does feel to me tit for tat. Going down the Talah path is consistent with what I do, whether you think it is scummy or not. Please note, I do things in a moment and see what comes about. Mastin will continue to do what she does as there is a donkey head. In the meantime we are going to be party to pages and reems of mastin and talah knocking at each other.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Anyway I'm just going to underline in bright red pen Necro=Scum and go find the others. At this stage I'm thinking Rach, possibly SSK, ZZZX, and *maybeee* Starflower depending on Sakura's input. Nati and Pere I have zero clue. Saki's absent which I think is actually slightly townleaning. Anyway.

Knife - what are you misunderstanding about this^

Seriously - I'm not drowning in bullshit day 1 this game. Mastin can talk to herself for the rest of Day 1.

And...
Can I just clarify you're looking at a *policy lynch* just to quell noise?
And you're voting *me*?

not a policy lynch, nope. I am just doing what I do. Find a direction, gather information, recalibrate and so on. I have seen enough from mastin/anti at this point to consider town. You say you are going to go find others but have not given any evidence. You actually have been giving Mastin's argument room. When Mastin tires of tunneling you she will return to how awful I am.
My befuddling TD is no surprise, even though have tried to let him get in sight. I am alien to here, at least he has that part down right. LOL.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Whelp, after conferring with Jingle I'll be moving on at this point. I'm personally not seeing the Talah scum in the thread, and don't have much faith in meta, especially when it's not my experience.

Fear and spring starflower still sticking out on review.

SKOT has been pinging me recently, re-reading his iso his posts are wishy washy and I think he might include more qualifiers then me. He continuously mentions just poking Necro for reactions, just poking. 446 he calls them out for feeling evasive, but then counters by saying it's a null tell. Then 648 Necro gives you a good what for and he replies with 667, "Well I didn't really call you scum." Went from sitting on a fence to full on backtracking. Then the, I have suspicions on you but well sheep you anyways, because hey, I'm going to vote out noise instead of actually scumhunt.

VOTE: SKOT

thanks for the laugh

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

.... So what you are saying is someone could do action X and if we view action X as objectively scummy then that person is acting scummy.

and someone could do action Y and since we view action Y as objectively towny the person doing action Y gains townpoints.

Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

it pretty much is how things seem to go to me...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

really, do folks get away with just saying I got a power role, Buh bye?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Ah, TD, I am sorry I short circuited the small grasp of understanding you had but for a moment. I cannot but help myself. I will take another look at Xay here. I felt the read was genuine but will take another look.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

So, TSO. Do a me favor and read your case again. Why does it suck so hard?

Now read Aegor's ISO and realize all of the actually scummy things Xayzeck has done pale in comparison to him.

About half of your case is nonalignment indicative and the other half is meh.

Now both of you stop being dumb and vote Aegor.

Mastin, either post a case on talah that isn't meta or sheep Antihero. Apparently, other me doesn't follow directions and won't tell you to take your head out of your ass, but there are other scum to find and I'm not feeling the D1 meta lynch.

I will take a look later as well JD. I come from an alien perspective so I look at things differently.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

okay TSO, after a read through my initial gut response may have been faulty... there are some posts in his ISO that just leave me uneasy at this point
so

vote Xay...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Sorry, Jordan, I do not see Aegor as possibly scum regarding anything he posted. It is mostly null. I don't see a case there right now.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Necro is pushing Aegor who is probably also scum over talah who he thinks is scum but probably isnt.

Nacho is Lurking his balls off.

SKOT is bussing Xayzeck.

There was a big necro derp wagon that got broken up that you should probably go read up on.

ah, TD, you are at least consistent my friend. I wish you to be able to have a change of perspective when it comes to me, but alas who I am simply befuddles you and I cannot do anything more to convince you others.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

TD, one more thing, of what you have seen of my play in past and present, with your comment, you honestly believe I would for one minute see someone as town, then take a look later and jump on and that this would be how I would approach a bus? Again, if confounded you can think anything possible.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

okay TSO, after a read through my initial gut response may have been faulty... there are some posts in his ISO that just leave me uneasy at this point
so

vote Xay...

bad touch ! bad touch

this made me smile... {{{{{double}}}}} oh wait is that bad touch-

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I've been prodded! Yeah, Xayzeck has been pretty solidly scummy all game. I'll go there.

VOTE: Xayzeck

ha haha hahahahHAHAHAHAHA

aha

ha

haa....

this is the particular reaction that got me all queasy-

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

ha haha hahahahHAHAHAHAHA

aha

ha

haa....

the vote is valid the reason is bullshit

VOTE2: SKOT

nice to meet you. I am but who I am. You will see what you will see. I am not concerned that you call what is genuine less than that.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

That post is actually fairly strongly town from Xayzeck to me.

lol, we shall see...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

okay, reread the ISO again and back to my original gut, I hate when I get things all twisty...

unvote

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote nacho

, lurky nacho is never good.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Though true, Nacho's V/LA until tomorrow and it's not exactly alignment-indicative.

okay I am a derp, forgot that...

unvote

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

um, so necro, please tell me why you think talah is scum again, not seeing it at this point. TIA.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I like me some thor...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh, there is the nacho that I am used...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

heh, nacho, at this point everyone may or may not have senses of who they have and have not begged. It is a sifting or morass and getting a sense, whatever the structure. We are banging on the threads. You pluck one, another plucks another. Whatever transpires does and true patterns emergy. But now the patterns are still a sifting.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote ssk...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

eh, some more posts I hadn't read before making that vote
I did not like Jordan tweak toward Titus...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

4 days to go-need consolidation and off on xay now...

vote Aegor

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote ssk...

I know that I get hated on for posting shit like this, but why? I know you changed the vote, but what troubled you about my posts?

Did I say anything about your posts, nope, not a thing. I cast a direction for a vote, picked a thread to pull on and here we are, reverberation.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

4 days to go-need consolidation and off on xay now...

vote Aegor

So what's your problem with the Xay wagon?

After Talah's last post I wouldn't mind lynching them.

gauging the response, the quest, the questioning, looking one way then the other, the queasy was ill-fit, the reexamination found nothing of disrepute but that which may be true to the nature of who they are...
thus time to pluck other threads of interest to see what may become

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote ssk...

I know that I get hated on for posting shit like this, but why? I know you changed the vote, but what troubled you about my posts?

Did I say anything about your posts, nope, not a thing. I cast a direction for a vote, picked a thread to pull on and here we are, reverberation.

But a vote means you think I'm scum and the only reason you could think that would be because of my posts unless reasons, so it's logical to assume that there was some post of mine that bothered you. But now I know that it was just a shitty vote. Unless you want to prove me different.

being an alien to these parts, the value and definition of what is stated and voted is varied. To one a vote is precious, to another a vote but a tool. All are suspect and some gain favor, others ill, the rub is which gains ring true and which are false. All in the sorting. All in time. One answer, then another, and soon we hold true or false. It is the use of the many tools that lead to the sorting, not just the one.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Why the fuck not? If I contrast it with you voting your own maybe-townread it seems pretty decent on reflection, doesn't it?

not really

you really think a flashwagon on peregrine or SKOT's going to happen and you really think those are the best lynches? why?

Hello opportunistic vote. I've been rolling your play over in my mind, and I don't like it. Apparently you would like to philosophise instead of actually trying to find scum. And talk about how you're finding scum.

'opportunistic'? that doesn't really fit considering the situation....

really, really, you are going to go down that misrep card? Seriously? I engaged in a whole reaction gauging exchange with necro, pounded on them pretty hard. Backed off, looked your way, backed away from the talah/necro conundrum and looked at other directions. Flipped back and forth on Xay and decided that while I had a reaction to a post, it did not sit the same upon reread. So then I went to Aegor as I like to see claims happen and I do not like pussy footing around till the last minute. I just do not. My game philosophy and the way I have played for over a decade and in 100s of games is not going to change simply because of being introduced to a foreign culture and trying to play in said culture. Here is the thing also, since I have no inside knowledge, there is nothing I can do but do what I do in interacting in the game to try and find scum. My tools are my tools, if I try and use someone elses tools I will error.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

xayzeck is scum. aegor is townier. bye

you hydra slipped...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote ssk...

I know that I get hated on for posting shit like this, but why? I know you changed the vote, but what troubled you about my posts?

Did I say anything about your posts, nope, not a thing. I cast a direction for a vote, picked a thread to pull on and here we are, reverberation.

But a vote means you think I'm scum and the only reason you could think that would be because of my posts unless reasons, so it's logical to assume that there was some post of mine that bothered you. But now I know that it was just a shitty vote. Unless you want to prove me different.

being an alien to these parts, the value and definition of what is stated and voted is varied. To one a vote is precious, to another a vote but a tool. All are suspect and some gain favor, others ill, the rub is which gains ring true and which are false. All in the sorting. All in time. One answer, then another, and soon we hold true or false. It is the use of the many tools that lead to the sorting, not just the one.

I'd be up for a policy lynch here also.

lol, and what policy would I be violating oh great and marvelous TSO.... just that I don't play like I played forever at Mafiascum, cause I didn't not and that would be impossible. Too funny.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

How the fuck would repeatedly spouting mindless philosophy instead of answering questions be related to your time spent as Mafiascum?

please show me where I am repeating mindless philosophy? TIA

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

being an alien to these parts, the value and definition of what is stated and voted is varied. To one a vote is precious, to another a vote but a tool. All are suspect and some gain favor, others ill, the rub is which gains ring true and which are false. All in the sorting. All in time. One answer, then another, and soon we hold true or false. It is the use of the many tools that lead to the sorting, not just the one.

please define for me what philosophy this is espousing? TIA... and please inform me how many posts are like this that you would define me as "all you posts is mindless philosophy and are not scum hunting, TIA.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh and please show where there is any repeat to whatever philosophy you believe is contained it said content... looking forward to it, much appreciated.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Love me some thor...
shiny you got a short amount of time...

sadly this will get dragged and left to the only option being Xay.
Xay has not really helped self either.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Everyone loves Thor.
And those that don't hate me.
So...actually I suppose there is a range of emotions.

@Shiny - even with the lurksacks that are 'most of the players here' we still have time to get a Jordan lynch. That said, as I described earlier, there are better and worse ways to go about pushing for it. I've already kicked that one as much as I care to. I will happily agree Jordan is the better vote, but I just don't find the value of my feeling (which is minor) to be worth the effort of bothering to be the ramrod when I can sit here on Xay. As I said, you get some motion, and then I'll move. Heck, get a couple other lazy bums to make the same promise and I'll also move. That said, Xay is a perfectly fine lynch despite protestations to the contrary - it's not like we're making a bad move, we're making a lynch in a morass of lurking sacks of a player who has some of the most posts. I'm pretty sure that has a reasonable chance to have some tells if he is scum, and if he isn't scum than I'm guessing (praying) not all of them are a wall war with TSO and we have the interactions with the other voters..

I will join a Jordan train if one forms at this point

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

oh that is a read list of full 1000 watt suckage...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

unvote

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote jordan

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

and then you have like sheep #3000 or as some people call him, Sharpest-knife-on-tree (insert joke of choice; "you're not that fucking sharp")

IF I was a sheep, I certainly would be sitting on Xay, so that is misrep of all time. And you prove yourself not that sharp either. You do not have to be sharp to be the sharpest knife on tree... just saying.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

SKOT has been pinging me recently, re-reading his iso his posts are wishy washy and I think he might include more qualifiers then me. He continuously mentions just poking Necro for reactions, just poking. 446 he calls them out for feeling evasive, but then counters by saying it's a null tell. Then 648 Necro gives you a good what for and he replies with 667, "Well I didn't really call you scum." Went from sitting on a fence to full on backtracking. Then the, I have suspicions on you but well sheep you anyways, because hey, I'm going to vote out noise instead of actually scumhunt.

Hey, when you are getting run up, pick a target and start finding out reasons others may attend to, to try and start a counter wagon. Your representation of my engagement with Necro is entirely a misrepresentation. But hey, thanks for making me feel better about that vote.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

but you tell us to pick a target?! How about the numerous other people that had such big cases on their scum reads and yet after a deadline extension decide it's a good time to run a player up the flag pole without actual discussion? Cause your post is about as town as what has happened these last few pages.

no I did not tell you to pick a target, that is what you did with vote. Hmm, who is someone who may be easy to deflect toward.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

ugg-

vote Fear

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

missed mod looking for replacement

unvote

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

You say specifically for me to pick a target and start a counter claim when I'm going to be lynched .... So you are obviously talking about me post the wagon forming but I obviously haven't posted so I'm not trying to find an easy target for a counter claim which you indicate I'm doing I assume by 1348 above when you say "easy to deflect toward," especially when the post you are quoting is from 600+ posts ago. Stop being stupid. Stop lying, if you aren't lying and contradicting yourself. Be clear in your posts especially in relation to your quotes.

No, that is my lack of effective communication and editing. I was describing what I saw you doing, not telling you to pick a target. I can see how it can be read otherwise. I am not lying. It appears to me that you were looking at the folks that voted you and picked a potential target that could be easy to run up. My lack of clarity is a long time issue as I post how I think and while I do try and edit for clarity at times I fail to do so.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

and Jordan, take and good long look at the exchange. Your misrepresenting my whole exchange with Necro is foolish. Necro voted me for shit reason other than I am different then everyone else here in my approach to the game. All of what you are picking up in that reaction fishing on Necro. Hell, it allowed you and me and others to back off Necro in the long run. I was pissed off and purposefully chose to dig in on Necro. It is something that I will do on occasion. I sure as hell do not do the pick at one small thing and decide to use it as an excuse to run something up that is part and parcel to play around here. That is not something I will do. I gauge reactions, vote, see a run up, get a claim, evaluate. Eventually find someone I feel is a good lynch or town does and I disagree with it. Go back and take a look at the game I was was in with Mastin and TD as Peacebringer if you want to check the meta.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Yeah, okay. In 707 you state they are going at it and being stubborn. Which also gives a feeling of it being a null discussion, but you sheep mastin in the long run anyways, and then later state you see mastin as town in 722 . Now perhaps I'm misunderstanding you because in my view you are ALL over the map in every different direction. But I clearly see all I mentioned in that post on you, so saying it's misrepresentation is pretty far out there. Still think you are somewhere between scum and null-stupid, but certainly know your posts aren't town motivated.

You this statement right here is one the dumbest ass things that go on here. You have a list of behaviors you expect people to follow as town. It is absolute bizarre to me. Making a statement that my posts aren't town motivated is dumb as shit. I know my role, I know my motivation. It is just that I do not and will not play by "Mafiascum" town expecatations. It is absurd to me. Believe me, everyone from where I come from would be labeled "antitown" in the way the play as a lot of schtick, lots of voting, and very little of what goes on here. Yes, I am all over the map. I am trying to sort things out and I don't pretend to have everything figured out and I look at one angel and then another. The vote you are calling "sheeping" with the Talah vote was purposeful switching the vote to see how Talah reacts to see if Necro was full of shit or not. Now, it was your reaction to me and my being sick of TSO's bullshit on Xay with a deadline crunch that had me voting the wagon.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote aegor-

I don't see any other direction taking off at this point.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Is Aegor really better than SKOT?

what is it about me that gets under you skin. Hmm?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I think you're scum. Aegor probably is too, but I'd like you to be forced into a claim as well.

then you are either scum or stuck in confab stupidity

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

TSO you certainly do use a lot of ad hominem in your perspective...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I was actually about to switch to Dryfit because the wagon was bigger.

Now I'm good with the Aegor lynch.

People should wagon one or the other.

Ditto-

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I even went so far as to start posting a change of vote post after looking at ISO and then looked at the vote and Aegor's recent statement which is all kinds of horrid.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I honestly don't want an aegor vote just because tso wants it.

Still don't see anyone else sheeping you TSO, do you have a money back guarantee?

aphix

I can understand the sentiment but it was not a TSO push it was more either/or here right?

Also I am not sure the value of your plan.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

At worst, my plan does not hurt us. At best, it gives us an advantage over scum. Why not give it a chance. I promise to full reveal tomorrow, as well as the rest of my setup spec so far.

there is no way you are going to get full town compliance with this. 1st of all you can be interfered with or blocked so focusing on 1 player is flawed. 2nd you will not get full compliance as each person will make the decision best for there particular role. Add in lurk-a-derps who will not even read the plan. It really does nothing to narrow things in on scum and provide them less place to hide. And I personally am not going to confirm or deny what I am going to do or not do regarding polarity.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Your argument is basically that my plan is going to fail because you will not cooperate. Am I getting that right? Not that there is no benefit to be had, nor that there is a reason not to follow it, but that you (or 'lurk-a-derps') won't. You'd better have a damn good reason should you fail the plan, because I see no town motivation to that. From my POV I believe choosing not to change polarities is optimal play today. Be ready to justify yourself if you don't agree.

No, I said I am not going to let scum know what I am going to do. People will choose to do what they think is best based on there role or being ignorant of it. It has nothing to do with whether I change my polarity or not, there are others who will not. And what possible benefit is there? Maybe a polarity cop? There is no substance to your plan and thinking you can pick one person to "switch" and try and lock them is fool hardy as it tells scum something they wouldn't know right off the bat.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

hey, if dry fit is at lynch point I got no problem hammering... I also think it is speculative on Aegor being a PR. I have no problem waiting things out either...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

well if Aegor does not show up and claim, then he needs to go bye bye. That is "antitown" behavior, period. Drawing things out and waiting to last minute to claim is also "antitown" imo...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Aegor is L-1. Aegor please claim your role.

well if Aegor does not show up and claim, then he needs to go bye bye. That is "antitown" behavior, period. Drawing things out and waiting to last minute to claim is also "antitown" imo...

First of all, I was at work until now. Second, why would I claim prematurely? Your suggestion that I should have claimed at some indefinite point in the past is absurd. We have already had two claims. In one day. That is bad.


I am not claiming. Feel free to hammer me. I may even do it myself if we reach deadline. Of course, I would rather Dry-fit get lynched.

I made not comment or suggestion that you should have claimed any point in the past. I said If you do not show up and claim, then you need to go bye bye. Nothing more, nothing less. You showed up and refuse to claim. You need to go bye bye. Simple. So, nice misrepresentation there, but par for course.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

SKOT not so much town anymore.

still town... not sure why you would flip-

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote zzzx

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously zzzx is a superb vote at this juncture...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously, titus not knowing necro's case?

Vote titus....

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously, titus not knowing necro's case?

Vote titus....

you gave up on the ZZZX push pretty damn quick

what you want me to tunnel?
Did you get rid of TSO because you knew he would keep tunneling on you?
I vote how I vote, when I vote and use my vote as I see fit...
titus I have seen is more game aware then that... so it is worth a vote... it should not be shocking.
Zzzx is not doing anything to help and has yet to post since off VLA. If it were soley up to me, ZZZX would be out of the game by now.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Spoiler: VCIIoA

Shiny Hydreigon (1): Fear
Saki (4):

ZZZX

, Doublade, Aegor,

Dry-fit

TiphaineDeath (1): Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1) Saki
The Most Curious Thing (4): Zdenek,

TiphaineDeath

,

Xayzeck

, PeregrineV
Natirasha (1): Talah
Xayzeck (2): The Most Curious Thing, Natirasha
TheNecromancers (1): Jordan_Downey
Jordan_Downey (2): TheNecromancers, MafiaSSK
Aegor (1): Spring Starflower
Not Voting (4): Shiny Hydreigon,

Nachomamma8

, TSO,

RachMarie

I'm basically calling this the beginning of the VCA, since it's the point where more players than not are seriously engaged. On the major wagons (not voting also being not active yet), bold = extreme interest; italicized = minor interest.

Shiny Hydreigon (1): Fear
Saki (4): ZZZX, Doublade, Aegor, Dry-fit
TiphaineDeath (1): Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (3): TiphaineDeath, Xayzeck, PeregrineV
Natirasha (1): MafiaSSK
Xayzeck (4): The Most Curious Thing, Natirasha, Zdenek, TheNecromancers
TheNecromancers (3): Jordan_Downey, Talah, Spring Starflower
Not Voting (4): Shiny Hydreigon, Nachomamma8, TSO, RachMarie

Of note, Xayzeck wagon builds and wagon on us begins to form.

Shiny Hydreigon (1): Fear
Saki (2): ZZZX, Dry-fit
TiphaineDeath (1): Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Dry-fit (3): Saki, Aegor, Doublade
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
Natirasha (1): MafiaSSK
Xayzeck (3): The Most Curious Thing, Zdenek, TiphaineDeath
TheNecromancers (4): Jordan_Downey, Talah, Xayzeck, Natirasha
Jordan_Downey (3): Shiny Hydreigon, TheNecromancers, Spring Starflower
Not Voting (3): Nachomamma8, TSO, RachMarie

Wagon on us continues to grow; Jordan wagon forms.

Shiny Hydreigon (1): Fear
Saki (2): ZZZX, Dry-fit
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1): TheNecromancers
Dry-fit (3): Saki, Aegor, Doublade
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
Natirasha (1): MafiaSSK
Xayzeck (3): The Most Curious Thing, Zdenek, TiphaineDeath
TheNecromancers (5): Jordan_Downey, Talah, Xayzeck, Natirasha, Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Jordan_Downey (2): Shiny Hydreigon, Spring Starflower
Not Voting (3): Nachomamma8, TSO, RachMarie

And all wagons, essentially, aside from ours stagnate/collapse.

Saki (2): ZZZX, Dry-fit
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
Natirasha (1): MafiaSSK
Talah (1): TheNecromancers
Xayzeck (3): The Most Curious Thing, Zdenek, TiphaineDeath
TheNecromancers (8):

Jordan_Downey, Talah

,

Xayzeck

, Natirasha, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Aegor, Doublade,

Fear

Jordan_Downey (2): Shiny Hydreigon, Spring Starflower
Not Voting (3): Nachomamma8, TSO, RachMarie

(Did I mention how horribad this wagon on us actually was? Yeah, well, it was. )

Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1): Jordan_Downey
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
Natirasha (1): MafiaSSK
Talah (2): TheNecromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree
Xayzeck (4): The Most Curious Thing, Zdenek,

TiphaineDeath

, TSO
TheNecromancers (5): Talah, Xayzeck, Natirasha, Aegor, Fear
Jordan_Downey (2): Shiny Hydreigon, Spring Starflower,
Aegor (1): Dry-fit
Not Voting (4):

Nachomamma8

, RachMarie, Doublade,

ZZZX

Xayzeck wagon's of note.

Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1): Jordan_Downey
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Natirasha (1): MafiaSSK
Talah (3): TheNecromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Shiny Hydreigon
Xayzeck (4): The Most Curious Thing, Zdenek, TiphaineDeath, TSO
TheNecromancers (4): Xayzeck, Natirasha, Aegor, Fear
Jordan_Downey (1): Spring Starflower,
Aegor (1): Dry-fit
Not Voting (4): Nachomamma8, RachMarie, Doublade, ZZZX

Talah wagon begins to form.

Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (1): Xayzeck
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Natirasha (1): MafiaSSK
Talah (4): The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Shiny Hydreigon, Zdenek
Xayzeck (4): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade
The Necromancers (3): Natirasha, Aegor, Fear
Jordan_Downey (1): Spring Starflower,
Aegor (2): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey
Not Voting (3): Nachomamma8, RachMarie, ZZZX

And gain steam.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (1): Xayzeck
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Talah (4): The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Shiny Hydreigon, Zdenek
Xayzeck (5): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, MafiaSSK
The Necromancers (2): Natirasha, Aegor
Jordan_Downey (1): Spring Starflower,
Aegor (2): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey
Not Voting (3): Nachomamma8, RachMarie, Fear

The Xayzeck wagon pulls ahead, though.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Talah (2): Shiny Hydreigon, Zdenek
Xayzeck (6): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, MafiaSSK, Sharpest-knife-on-tree
The Necromancers (2): Thor665, Aegor
Jordan_Downey (1): Spring Starflower,
Aegor (3): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, The Necromancers
Not Voting (2): RachMarie, Fear

Should be noted that the reason the talah wagon collapsed was because of his claim--which also explains the Xayzeck wagon, and also the emerging Aegor wagon. (SKOT hops off of Xayzeck, replaced by Thor and Aegor.)

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (2): PeregrineV, RachMarie
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Talah (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (7): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, MafiaSSK, Thor665, Aegor
Jordan_Downey (2): Spring Starflower, Shiny Hydreigon
Aegor (3): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, The Necromancers
Not Voting (2): Fear, Sharpest-knife-on-tree

We got this,

PeregrineV (2): RachMarie, Talah
Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
Talah (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (6): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, Thor665, Aegor
Jordan_Downey (2): Spring Starflower, Shiny Hydreigon
Aegor (5): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, MafiaSSK
Not Voting (1): Fear

Then this. Aegor wagon forms.

PeregrineV (1): RachMarie
Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1): Talah
Dry-fit (2): Saki, Aegor
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
Talah (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (6): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, Thor665, Spring Starflower
Jordan_Downey (1): Shiny Hydreigon
Aegor (5): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, MafiaSSK
Not Voting (1): Fear

Wagon composition changes a bit, but otherwise is the same. I'm not sure if this means that we had two town wagons or if the scum simply didn't think a Xayzeck lynch would go through, though it has to be one of the two. Either way, I'm thinking that they basically had even distribution: on Xayzeck (so that they could jump off when need be), on Aegor (the counterwagon), and floating about.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (2): Saki, Aegor
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Talah
Talah (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (5): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, Spring Starflower
Jordan_Downey (3): Shiny Hydreigon, RachMarie, Thor665
Aegor (5): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, MafiaSSK
Not Voting (1): Fear

Jordan wagon forms.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (1): Saki
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (2): Xayzeck, Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Jon_h61
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (5): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath, TSO, Doublade, Aegor
Jordan_Downey (6): Shiny Hydreigon, RachMarie, Thor665, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Spring Starflower
Aegor (3): Dry-fit, Jordan_Downey, MafiaSSK
Not Voting (1): Fear

Solidly. (Really, who's scum on there? Don't really see any possible, aside from something like a minuscule 7 or so percent chance of Spring Starflower.)

Jordan_Downey (7): Shiny Hydreigon, RachMarie, Thor665, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Spring Starflower, Saki

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (3): Doublade, Saki, Xayzeck
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (1): Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Jon_h61
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (2): The Most Curious Thing, TiphaineDeath,
Jordan_Downey (10): Shiny Hydreigon, RachMarie, Thor665, The Necromancers, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Spring Starflower, Dry-fit, MafiaSSK, TSO, Aegor
Aegor (1): Jordan_Downey
Not Voting (1): Fear

Saki does do a hit-and-run, but given who spearheaded the Dry-fit wagon, I understand that. Anyway, look at the Jordan wagon here. Incredibly, it has absolutely none of my current scumspects on it. Obviously, I can have faulty reads. But not

that

faulty. It really seems like a case where the scum could have finished Jordan off. (Heck, jon was online to do so!) Yet...deliberately chose not to, for fear of losing a strong scum PR of theirs.

Their claim saves them, and we begin to get equal counter-wagons on Dry-fit and Aegor.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (5): Doublade, Saki,

Xayzeck

, RachMarie, Aegor
The Most Curious Thing (1): PeregrineV
TSO (1): Nachomamma8
MafiaSSK (1): Jon_h61
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Xayzeck (1): The Most Curious Thing
Jordan_Downey (4): Shiny Hydreigon, The Necromancers, Spring Starflower, MafiaSSK
Aegor (6):

Jordan_Downey

, Sharpest-knife-on-tree,

TiphaineDeath

, TSO, Thor665, Dry-fit
Not Voting (1): Fear

As shown here.

I really am getting the impression they didn't care which of Dry-fit or Aegor died, so long as it wasn't Jordan.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Sharpest-knife-on-tree (1): TSO
Dry-fit (8): Doublade, Xayzeck, RachMarie, Aegor, Saki, Spring Starflower, Jon_h61, Jordan_Downey
Malakittens (1): Shiny Hydreigon
TSO (1): Nachomamma8
Jon_h61 (1): Zdenek
Titus (2): The Necromancers, PeregrineV
Jordan_Downey (1): Malakittens
Aegor (6): Sharpest-knife-on-tree, TiphaineDeath, Thor665, Dry-fit, Titus, MafiaSSK

That'd sure be a fair amount of bussing if Dry-fit were to be scum. Soyeah, strongly inclined to think he isn't.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (11): Doublade,

Xayzeck

, RachMarie, Aegor, Saki, Spring Starflower,

Jon_h61, Jordan_Downey

, Thor665, Shiny Hydreigon, PeregrineV

L-1

TSO (1): Nachomamma8
Titus (1): The Necromancers
Aegor (8): Sharpest-knife-on-tree,

TiphaineDeath

, Dry-fit,

Titus

, MafiaSSK, Zdenek, TSO, Malakittens

You can really see it here. Scum are going to be on both wagons.

Spring Starflower (1): ZZZX
Dry-fit (8): Xayzeck, RachMarie, Aegor, Saki, Spring Starflower, Jon_h61, Shiny Hydreigon, PeregrineV
TSO (1): Nachomamma8

Aegor (12): Sharpest-knife-on-tree, TiphaineDeath, Dry-fit, Titus, MafiaSSK, Zdenek, TSO, Malakittens, Jordan_Downey, The Necromancers, Thor665, Doublade

And very clearly did not care which went through.

Okay, so I suppose it's not IioA; there's some analysis present. Still, though, only vaguely helpful.

Why was my rvs interesting may I ask? And how does that make me look scum?

you going actually start participating in this game or you just going to be a lurk-a-derp?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

the problem is you didn't say much and left a naked vote prior to VLA... you referenced an illness around here so maybe you were not around...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Your vote history is this ZZZx

Random vote for Saki, kept it for a long time.
Vote for Spring
Disappear
add in some complaints about rate of posting, some town reads, some complaint of being confused. Now you complain of being confused for a 2nd time. what exactly is confusing to you?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Your vote history is this ZZZx

Random vote for Saki, kept it for a long time.
Vote for Spring
Disappear
add in some complaints about rate of posting, some town reads, some complaint of being confused. Now you complain of being confused for a 2nd time. what exactly is confusing to you?

The fact that there are +20 pages that I still have to read and such I have no idea what is going on.

you have no idea what is going on? A simply scan of mod posts give you an idea of what is going on. Sure coming back from being gone can have some disorientation to it but I would not imagine reorienting to a game would take that much...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

VOTE: SKOT

Had gut suspicions from yesterday, still continuing into today. Still don't feel like SKOT has contributed anything to the game except lots of empty posts. Luckily my gut seems to match up with other heads reads, and Jingle is way better at making a case. Decided we went too long without a vote out there.

typical, still waiting on your grand plan...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

@Jordan-

what post was this initial plan that Sharpest is trying to scum-derail?

some vague plan of everyone agreeing to not change polarity. Which they clearly did not have signed off on as we went from neutral to light and only light have died. Meanwhile, we have a light death. What I have said, was there is no way you can verify, no way you can get folks to sign off on it. It would not be successful. Calling out a plan for being screwy and ill defined is not scummy by any stretch. What good does it do. You add in things like locked players and other elements that we do not know and it is simply silly. Also trying to get folks to commit to what they may or may not do actually gives scum a greater chance of guessing what to do or where they need to be to carry off kills/moves.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Now I do not think I have problem with everyone declaring what they did regarding polarity. Alltough it may help scum narrow further what need to be. All we now is where things currently stand but not by how many. We are light, we don't know if we had a shift to light by 1 or 50. I have a problem with expecting a commitment one direction or another.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Oh and Jordan, If I were scum I would just go right along with whatever you said, FYI. (of course you can turn that into WIFOM as well.) I am open to hearing what your case is and let me see if you once again include lots of null behavior, mafascum labled "anti-town" actions, and other elements that are sketchy or if you actually think you have a reasoned argument. Whatever you think you are looking, if town, it is 1000% confbias and flawed. I can already predict the case that might be brought up.

Let me had Jordan, if you state a case please include why it is that you think scum would do such and such regarding my behavior. What you think scum would gain from it. TIA.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

@Jordan-

what post was this initial plan that Sharpest is trying to scum-derail?

I specifically didn't post the full plan until today, just now, in the post you clearly read. I'll post the back and forth between me and SKOT where he tried to derail it under a spoiler.

Spoiler: A bunch of quotes you should have already read.

Claim: Polarity locker. We can target a player at the beginning of the night and they will not be able to change their polarity. I'm not sure how utility that is, but it specifically notes that it will not be blocked by polarity, and is a 'neutral shot.'

It is positive utility to have the town at a neutral polarity, or as close to a neutral alignment as possible. This gives us extra information we can use when solving for alignment. To this end, I suggest no one switch their alignment tonight.

The mod clarified that the NK can be blocked by polarity, which implies to me that 1. The scum team is larger than it would normally be. 2. This game is multiball. 3. There are multiple killing roles.

In order to accurately get knowledge from the polarity mechanic, we need to get a claim from each lynch candidate at L-1 before the hammer.

I'm not telling them to claim what polarity they are. We do not know what polarity they are, unless you've got some special insight you'd like to share with the class. I just want them to attempt to change polarities from what they are now to the other option, and confirm tomorrow whether said change actually happened. Hint: it won't. I can't tell if you're being dense or just scum afraid of my plan.

To anyone doubting my plan here is a brief rundown of how it doesn't hurt us to trust me right now:

1. No one's alignment is known. That means that staying the same and switching have roughly the same chances at being effective.
2. My plan effectively doesn't change anything until I reveal it tomorrow, where we will have a day phase to discuss it. This can only add content to analyze.
3. Should scum be afraid of it, then they will likely kill me tonight, resolving a slot of contention and confirming my alignment, which can only be a good thing for town.
4. If my logic is flawed, we will be able to figure that out, without having changed our play substantially.

There is no reason, at all, from a town POV not to at least humor me tonight.

I honestly don't want an aegor vote just because tso wants it.

Still don't see anyone else sheeping you TSO, do you have a money back guarantee?

aphix

I can understand the sentiment but it was not a TSO push it was more either/or here right?

Also I am not sure the value of your plan.

At worst, my plan does not hurt us. At best, it gives us an advantage over scum. Why not give it a chance. I promise to full reveal tomorrow, as well as the rest of my setup spec so far.

At worst, my plan does not hurt us. At best, it gives us an advantage over scum. Why not give it a chance. I promise to full reveal tomorrow, as well as the rest of my setup spec so far.

there is no way you are going to get full town compliance with this. 1st of all you can be interfered with or blocked so focusing on 1 player is flawed. 2nd you will not get full compliance as each person will make the decision best for there particular role. Add in lurk-a-derps who will not even read the plan. It really does nothing to narrow things in on scum and provide them less place to hide. And I personally am not going to confirm or deny what I am going to do or not do regarding polarity.

Your argument is basically that my plan is going to fail because you will not cooperate. Am I getting that right? Not that there is no benefit to be had, nor that there is a reason not to follow it, but that you (or 'lurk-a-derps') won't. You'd better have a damn good reason should you fail the plan, because I see no town motivation to that. From my POV I believe choosing not to change polarities is optimal play today. Be ready to justify yourself if you don't agree.

My role is confirmable, you're being stupid. If my plan is bad, lynch me for it tomorrow. The goal here is to get as much information as possible. If you don't follow the plan then you'd best have a damn good reason. I'm promising full disclosure tomorrow, so stop being an idiot.

Your argument is basically that my plan is going to fail because you will not cooperate. Am I getting that right? Not that there is no benefit to be had, nor that there is a reason not to follow it, but that you (or 'lurk-a-derps') won't. You'd better have a damn good reason should you fail the plan, because I see no town motivation to that. From my POV I believe choosing not to change polarities is optimal play today. Be ready to justify yourself if you don't agree.

No, I said I am not going to let scum know what I am going to do. People will choose to do what they think is best based on there role or being ignorant of it. It has nothing to do with whether I change my polarity or not, there are others who will not. And what possible benefit is there? Maybe a polarity cop? There is no substance to your plan and thinking you can pick one person to "switch" and try and lock them is fool hardy as it tells scum something they wouldn't know right off the bat.

I WILL EXPLAIN THE BENEFIT TOMORROW. There is no town motivation behind not at least seeing this through. You're not making any reasonable arguments for why you shouldn't give my plan a shot. There is no additional information tonight. The only information is that you don't change alignments. Explain to me how that benefits scum? Our polarities are unknown. Either explain to me using logic why my plan benefits scum or be ready to explain why you didn't fucking listen to me tomorrow.

He never responded to me after 1702 despite posting again before the thread closed.

Hey, mastinhero, would you please be my bestest friend ever and link me to whichever post is the best summary of your talah/jon case? I need to read that ISO and I'd prefer if I didn't have to hunt it down myself. I will if you're not nice though.

you have yet to explain this part of plan. Seriously, you asked why scum would benefit from knowing who you planned to lock and that a person may be doing with polarity. And I did not ignore you, you said explain it further or wait for more tomorrow. I waited. I told you what I was going to do and I told you whatever you were planning wouldn't work. You have not highlighted any of your so called plan as of this day. This all has the appearance of a lot of noise signifying nothing.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I see no reason to move from Titus... I am not seeing town titus at the moment I believe.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Contradictions? Z Bro you lost me.

So honestly the fuck am I supposed to do here?

1. I have one person who I feel as good as scum slipped, that no one will listen to me about. (Spring)
2. I have one person whose reads list is squishier than rotten bannanas and I was scumreading before the other guys slip made me think he was town. (zzx)
3. I have one person who in their previous incarnation quietly lurked and was disgustingly scummy when they posted, and hasn't really done much to redeem themselves. (Titus)
4. And finally I have one person who was scummy all of yesterday, hasn't really done much today, I pushed all of yesterday, and when I finally got off him the guy who pushed him slightly more than i did died. (Xay)

Honestly I need like four fucking votes. The only good news is that there is no way spring and zzx are scum together which makes me lean towards voting one of them.

Can people who haven't responded to me yet, and who are on non-spring wagons tell me why they disagree that spring is scum?

I have no thought one way or another. MS not engaging though is eyebrow raising.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Thor is there anyone you would NOT support lynching?

you scum rach? thor is definitely pinging me as town...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

@ ZZZK Looking back over your reads list, maybe you're not Town reading us, your list is hard to follow. What are your reads for all the TBCs?

If Titus is scum this time, I'll probably start Policy Lynching you! JK

oh good lord this sounds like distancing- maybe mastin is right about the slot after all...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

heh, I had already concluded that ZZZx was town after my probe. I was surprised that now we have zzzx as top run up.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Kill me now, please! I'm to the point that if Necro's Town, I don't care any more. I want them to have to eat their words. This crap has to end, but it'll be worth it, just to blow their credibility to bits.

Come get me Necro, call all your dogs!
VOTE: The Necromancers

My goal now is to make them eat their words. Confscum my ass!!!

Holy AtE batman...

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Both jon and Titus are Ate'ing Skoat

true enough mala, note I am voting Titus. She does hide it better though... jon was just blatant.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

2133and 2156 are current elements of bringing in emotion. Complaints about the game in both. 2133 you call yourself frustrated town. It is more cloaked overall. Then the "I am only run up early as town" non-sense. You yourself have prided yourself on saying that it is all null and now you are saying you do or have one thing happen as town and one as scum... I believe this is your scum game. Time will prove me right or wrong.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

I know I promised full reads today but I am posting from my 3g as my familly decided today is a good day for a field trip.

a few hours... hopefully... I promise for real! I got a full readlist nearly ready in my pc I have been working on since yesterday.

I know I promised full reads today but I am posting from my 3g as my familly decided today is a good day for a field trip.

a few hours... hopefully... I promise for real! I got a full readlist nearly ready in my pc I have been working on since yesterday.

Micro 350 ended a while back so I can bring this up now.

When I saw both of these I just went "haah"

he was a jester in that game so the smoking gun would be what?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

seriously, titus is scum people. I don't understand why folks are reluctant to vote.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

**** this.


Everyone runing a freaking meaningless wagon on me. I feel ashamed of how town isnt freaking seeing this. Springflower is OBV scum and titus is playing shitty with his naked vote making him appear more scum. At everyone asking about the TBC. Do I have time to make a read when i am freaking trying not to get lynched?


**** this again

Vote: ZZZX

Finish this and put me out of my misery.
Anyone who played a freaking damn game should know this is my playstyle. Yet I played with half the people on my wagon and they are "Ok with a ZZZX lynch" as a ****ing case... REALLY?


Actually I dont even care anymore. lynch me and I am not defending myself any more. Deaf people are gona stay deaf no matter how freaking hard I screamed,.

This is survalist. He's suddenly switched personalities to trolling.

His whole lost reads is survslust.

A readwall with a lot of TBD is survivslust.

survival is town, evasion is scum...
arguing survival is arguing for town

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Survivalism is scum and so is evasion. Evasion is a tool of survivslists.

everyone tries to survive, folks do not roll over and just say, okay, I am gone, just run me up. There are different motivations to the behavior. Town tries to keep in game as long as possible or facilitate others surviving. (such as a townie giving RP cover and trying to draw a kill). A townie's mindset is to survive as long as possible. Now a RP has the survive mindset and some evasion thrown in due to their role. Scum are simply evasive. they are trying to "look town" and are evading detection. Saying what you said is complete BS, but your scum, so hey, there is that.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Now the one exception to above is an independent "survivor" role.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

No. A scum's mindset is to survive as long as possible. If a player is a VT, they should play balls to the wall. VTs don't play to survive. PRs shouldn't be reckless but be willing to die if it outs scum. Hell PRs even should want a moderate amount of suspicion yo avoid the NK.

There is a blatant difference between being survivalistic and defending. Survivalistic tends to adopt whatever position will not get thrm lynched. Defenders try to crack yhe game. ZZZX's I give up did nothing to progress the game.

I think here we are down to the meaning put on words and town. What you are describing as Survivalistic to me is evasive. Any town should have a mindset to survive as long as possible to put pressure on scum, it can involve aggressive actions that ensure town survival.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

No. A scum's mindset is to survive as long as possible. If a player is a VT, they should play balls to the wall. VTs don't play to survive. PRs shouldn't be reckless but be willing to die if it outs scum. Hell PRs even should want a moderate amount of suspicion yo avoid the NK.

There is a blatant difference between being survivalistic and defending. Survivalistic tends to adopt whatever position will not get thrm lynched. Defenders try to crack yhe game. ZZZX's I give up did nothing to progress the game.

I think here we are down to the meaning put on words and town. What you are describing as Survivalistic to me is evasive. Any town should have a mindset to survive as long as possible to put pressure on scum, it can involve aggressive actions that ensure town survival.

Ok, well we disagree here. ZZZX was trying to evade providing real content and have PPL go lol selfvote town. That's scummy.

Considering we have a language barrier, why don't we sit down and figure things out? Pick a null player on your list and let's talk.

Nero, that's not black and white thinking to say a behavior us scummy.

because your play here is different... this is the first post that has felt like my exposure to you so far.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

SKOT can you rephrase? Your post makes no sense.

I cannot really rephrase without crossing lines. Your play here is different.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

i hear that if you talk about ongoing games, zoraster jumps out of your closet and kicks you in the nuts

pretty much

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

okay that appeared to be screwing around to appear town

vote Spring Starflower

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote Titus

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote Titus

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

more titus votes are needed

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

SKOT, quit beating a dead horse and scumhunt.

well, I think you are scum and I do what I do. Your posting here is the absolute opposite and quite different then the finished games I had with you. You are scum.
Tell me did you maintain your polarity or swap it?

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Maintained.

My posting is quite similar, otherwise I would be wagoned to death already. You are ignoring the game and using me as an excuse to vote park.

okay-
I am not vote parking when I am convinced you are scum...
and your tone is quite different, you posting is not the same. There is a difference. Nothing I can point to objectively, but my experience of you is different.

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

Lets take my wagon and decompose it:

ZZZX (5): Thor665, Dry-fit, Eddie Fenix, Jon_h61, Xayzeck

Thor665: Never played with him - Townish with really naive posting and bad logic
Dry-fit: Never played with him Scummish
Eddie Fenix: Never played with him Idk
Jon_h61: Never played with him Scummish
Xayzeck: Playing with him/played with him in a finished game. Afaik its the latter but I wont comment about his meta until I am sure. Really Scum Stuff... I dont even know if he is scum or just trolling town.

Let me apply pressure to help know it.

Vote Xayzeck

interesting facts about my wagon:
Its mostly made up from people who dont know my playstyle
Its not made of a case
People who know me are not voting me.
Made by people known to be scummy be everyone
Clearly a mislynch.

and yesterdays wagon?