Open 560: Tit for Tat (Game Over, 4/12 alive)

[Krystal Bald]

whatever you want
It's been a while, Juls. I don't have any Visine, but I do have regular tears, if you wanna use those instead.
~Nikanor
P.S. This hydra doesn't sign our posts, but you can tell which is which by whether or not we use caps.

[Krystal Bald]

P.S. Nikinor, I remember the name but refresh my memory on why. Also, who is your other hydra head?

I'm not sure but I know we've played at least one game together. It was a few years ago, probably '09 or '10. Probably played a few marathons together too.
The other head is Mantisdreamz. She probably won't be posting much for the first few rl days, as she's occupied with something else atm. So y'all are stuck with me. Sucks to be you guys.

[Krystal Bald]

Yes, role PMs are out. No, nobody is getting modkilled, no rules were broken yet.

Yet.

TSO, accusing someone of doing something that could warrant a permanent site ban and the obliteration of their reputation is kind of a dick move, even if it wasn't actually possible. You are an asshat.

[Krystal Bald]

Mod pls start the game so that I can vote N_M

[Krystal Bald]

Guys I think we should massclaim. Whoever got Role Cop should claim first and we can popcorn from there.

Rid's probtown, mostly because xfdagentx42 and Not_Mafia are scum together.

Vote: xfdagentx42.

[Krystal Bald]

Gonna have to make the obvious joke here and talk about how much I love tits.
They're gooey and squishy and it's like having a couple of jellyfishes on your chest omg

Flavour vote: Tit's wedding plans

[Krystal Bald]

Fuck no

Do you dislike my massclaim idea or are you fucknoing my vote?

[Krystal Bald]

Yo Rid what do you think of the people in this game who aren't yourself?
You're not allowed to say that Mala is town though cuz I'm saying that right now and you saying it would be stealing and stealing is wrong.

[Krystal Bald]

TSO might be the last of the scum though idk it seems too easy.

[Krystal Bald]

Riddles: There are no town investigative roles on day one in this setup, so there is no information to go on if we no-lynch.
Games on mafiascum are much more day-phase-oriented than on other sites. If you don't catch a majority of the scum during the day, you're probably going to lose.

TSO: I was actually thinking the opposite, that your play after the game started has been anti-antagonistic. So far you've placed a random vote on a player not in the game and done nothing else, despite posting like over a bajillion times.

[Krystal Bald]

So you think me doing nothing is indicative of me being scum?

Do I normally do this as scum?

a) Yes
b) idk, do you normally do it as town?

[Krystal Bald]

Do you think that scum normally do nothing?

Do you think that the more you do, the less likely scum you are?

It seems a rather flawed principle that work = scum. I've made out large cases and relentlessly tunnelled on Town as scum. I don't feel it's alignment indicative, but you do, so I'd like to see you back it up.

Posting good, town-motivated content makes you more likely to be town.
Posting bad, scummy content makes you more likely to be scum.
Posting without including content at all, or to simply defend yourself (active lurking) is a pretty common scum tell yeah.

Not posting is a null tell.

@N_M: He wasn't trolling, he actually thought that what he had posted was a good idea. I don't think he was trying to get on anyone's nerves, it just sorta happened.

[Krystal Bald]

So what makes you think TSO is scum,

Krystal

?

I was actually thinking that his play after the game started has been anti-antagonistic. So far he's placed a random vote on a player not in the game and done nothing else but defend himself, despite posting like over a bajillion times.

[Krystal Bald]

Yay people already feel like they're sleeping.
Hi Tammy.
No idea was terrible joking or non

Rephrase?

[Krystal Bald]

@Rid:

Annoyed two of you and the game's not even started.

Not bad!

Because he clearly gives a shit about whether we're annoyed.

[Krystal Bald]

Rid: Why would anyone want to intentionally make themselves look like mafia? Your logic doesn't work because town doesn't want to look scummy either.

[Krystal Bald]

The basis of your accusation to TSO relies on the fact he is purposely:-
-Not doing anything on the day round
-purposely trying to wind people up and therefore make himself look scummy in the process

The first is correct, the second isn't. Being annoying isn't a tell, it's just one of TSO's character flaws.

[Krystal Bald]

Do you think that scum normally do nothing?

Do you think that the more you do, the less likely scum you are?

It seems a rather flawed principle that work = scum. I've made out large cases and relentlessly tunnelled on Town as scum. I don't feel it's alignment indicative, but you do, so I'd like to see you back it up.

Posting good, town-motivated content makes you more likely to be town.
Posting bad, scummy content makes you more likely to be scum.
Posting without including content at all, or to simply defend yourself (active lurking) is a pretty common scum tell yeah.

Has the word "anti-town" ever entered your lexicon?

I mean, it doesn't seem to have, because the definition you've given above seems rather naive. I can show you scum games where I've produced lots of content. I can show you towngames where I've produced none.

You don't take motivation into account, and so your analysis is only surface-deep. Thus, people can easily fool you.

Do you think my trolling was scum-motivated? Do you feel most trolls are scum, and your whimsicality has relevance towards your alignment?

I don't.

Oh my god
My read on you has nothing to do with whether or not you were trolling. I don't really give a fuck about that. You are now ignoring literally everything that is happening around you and focusing entirely on this conversation because it lets you get away with not scumhunting. Tell me, what's the town motivation for ignoring everything and not scumhunting?

[Krystal Bald]

What -has- happened? Riddleton being town? I noticed that. You being borderline-illiterate? That one's becoming clearer.

Wow somehow Julatorium found a whole slew of stuff to address, guess they just pulled all that out of their shared ass because nothing at all has been happening.

[Krystal Bald]

Yo Rid what do you think of the people in this game who aren't yourself?
You're not allowed to say that Mala is town though cuz I'm saying that right now and you saying it would be stealing and stealing is wrong.

Why do you think Mala is town?

The fact that Malakittens didn't know that I was joking about the massclaim thing made it seem like she didn't know that Role Cop was a scum role in this setup. If she'd known that Role Cop was a scum role she'd have known I was joking.
That's the theory, anyway.

Boiled down to its component parts this reads as "hey, I find it suspicious that you're reacting to my continuing suspicions of you". Now I'll grant you that TSO has made the pretty standard move of flipping your initial suspicions of him back on you, forcing you to stake out positions that can be looked back on later for consistency at the least or forcing you into an error that would allow him to mount a case on you at most. But that can certainly be a form of scumhunting every bit as much as it can be a sound scum defensive maneuver. Like it or not, the confrontation between you and TSO is the main thing that is happening around us, at least until Julatorium weighed in and then this odd thing blew up between Mala and Tammy.

a) TSO was arguing that I was wrong because I'm a bad scumhunter. His questions centered on mafia game theory ("Do you know what anti-town is?" etc.) so I really doubt his intention was to force me to stake out a position that he could refer to later.
b) Julatorium weighed in on a lot of stuff that wasn't me/TSO so you're wrong when you say that that's the first thing that happened that wasn't me/TSO. Like, if Julatorium could talk about that stuff then why couldn't TSO?

I'm still super comfortable with my vote on xfda.

[Krystal Bald]

hey mala

[Krystal Bald]

Yet not scummy enough for anyone to put their vote where their mouth is speaking, kayyy.

185 gave me really bad feels, really, really bad feels.

VOTE: xfdag

actually, yes a little.
the "little scum read part" and the not wanting to put a vote down, if that's the case

[Krystal Bald]

Might be following Tammy out of here, depending on what my hydra partner thinks. This game has been thoroughly unenjoyable.

[Krystal Bald]

elmo, stfu

-mantis

i was telling nikanor that i'll take over for a bit, instead of seeing our way out.

problem for me is, i have no reads :s yet..

[Krystal Bald]

Krystal is playing bad scum. Or just a horrible player not sure which yet

Would tend to agree with you here as well. The question is whether it might be just a horrible case of confirmation bias, in favor of Mala and against TSO, based on personal likes and dislikes.

you can stfu too!

[Krystal Bald]

alright, gonna read through the thread to see who looks like the scum

[Krystal Bald]

/confirm.

Hi Nikanor!

Also hey guys guess what? This slot is now confirmed town. Sleepy told me I'm not allowed to post in the game if we drew scum after I told him how much I hated scum and sucked at it. So, I'm posting ergo town. Aren't we all lucky!

i believe this

[Krystal Bald]

ahh that's tammy's slot, yes?

i think town

[Krystal Bald]

Why can't we be friends?

^scummish

..in relation with dot's, tso's and jul's convo

[Krystal Bald]

I'm looking forward to starting, too. Has everyone confirmed their role PM?

cute

[Krystal Bald]

Maybe you're just having a god ol laugh

Although as long as we're on the topic this was clearly role fishing at the highest possible level.

what?

[Krystal Bald]

*sigh* flavor b, I guess, but I want to take part in champagne and wine tasting preferably often otherwise it's gonna be a complete bore!

VOTE: riddleton

I should probably vote tso for making my other head leave, but he was among those taking trolling way too seriously, but I only signed up for this game in the first place to hydra with him and he leaves me before it even starts. I'm not happy right now, I'm probably going to be a little testy about this, so don't start with me. I'm doing my best to keep games pleasant after too many hostile games lately, and it's not your fault he left me and he's been very apologetic, but I'm not starting in the best of moods right now. /mini rant

Anyway not rvs vote.

aww. maybe that's what made you sub out moreso, than the mala reaction test. or combo of both. too bad

[Krystal Bald]

Aaaand Mantis recieved a town pm

thankfully yes! lol

[Krystal Bald]

yay, mala if you are town, we can work together. still reading the thread.. >.>

[Krystal Bald]

so far, page 3. i think tammy and riddle are town.

mala i think is town for recent posts.


page 4.. this:

Flavour: A

VOTE: Riddleton

So how do you plan to move the game forward?

seems scummy, considering i think riddle is town

[Krystal Bald]

yay, mala if you are town, we can work together. still reading the thread.. >.>

I'm town, and yeah, that would be helpful if we can work together.

agreed.

[Krystal Bald]

Guys I think we should massclaim. Whoever got Role Cop should claim first and we can popcorn from there.

Rid's probtown, mostly because xfdagentx42 and Not_Mafia are scum together.

Vote: xfdagentx42.

nikanor, i agree with NM. not so sure about agent42 though

[Krystal Bald]

Gonna have to make the obvious joke here and talk about how much I love tits.
They're gooey and squishy and it's like having a couple of jellyfishes on your chest omg

Flavour vote: Tit's wedding plans

gooey? i picture getting my hands all slimey with this reference

[Krystal Bald]

I'm maybe thinking insanity scum. Something triggered in her first post to Tammy that reminded me of our last completed game where we where scum buddies.

i don't even think i've acknowledged insanity at this point. i pretty much know only you
i'll look

[Krystal Bald]

@Riddleton You should spend a little acquainting yourself with the site meta here, we use RVS (or RQS) to start the game and we use wagons to apply pressure and gain information, we usually only get people to roleclaim when they're at L-1 and we declare intent to hammer.

And my question was in direct response to you saying you don't like RVS, it is the expectation here so that's why I asked. I understand why you didn't participate now.

Also votes require bold tags or vote tags or they won't be counted (

[./b] VOTE: [./vote])

@Krystal Considering he stopped after being chastised for it and he did it after we received our Role PMs why is it alignment indicative for him to have stopped trolling?

^scum

VOTE: not mafia

[Krystal Bald]

VOTE: not mafia

[Krystal Bald]

Do you think that scum normally do nothing?

Do you think that the more you do, the less likely scum you are?

It seems a rather flawed principle that work = scum. I've made out large cases and relentlessly tunnelled on Town as scum. I don't feel it's alignment indicative, but you do, so I'd like to see you back it up.

Posting good, town-motivated content makes you more likely to be town.
Posting bad, scummy content makes you more likely to be scum.
Posting without including content at all, or to simply defend yourself (active lurking) is a pretty common scum tell yeah.

Has the word "anti-town" ever entered your lexicon?

I mean, it doesn't seem to have, because the definition you've given above seems rather naive. I can show you scum games where I've produced lots of content. I can show you towngames where I've produced none.

You don't take motivation into account, and so your analysis is only surface-deep. Thus, people can easily fool you.

you are wrong with that, speaking on nik's behalf >:I

[Krystal Bald]

I think I'm gonna head to bed, catch up and we will sync up maybe tommorow or something Krystal.

k night mala

[Krystal Bald]

I made the list because I feel that there may be one mafia member in there or maybe two because if they post early they will not look suspicious....other than lurking which won't go unnoticed and get them lynched.

If it's just because you think posting in general is a scumtell because we're evading lurking (I'll leave this part to Julatorium), then how can you have made a priority list?

Why was the list in that specific order and what makes each person scummier than the person below?

VOTE: HGH

^this guy is scum!

[Krystal Bald]

Spoiler:

A few early things...

I choose

B

.

Hmm...

Oh justin is your avatar from the hush episode?

Nope, it's from season seven when Giles was trying to train the new slayers about the bringers. Here, of course, he's instructing us on how to recognize scum. And Tammy, hope you stay in, I watch Buffy with my kids about once a year. But, and please forgive me for my ignorance, could you explain why I should see you almost as an innocent child?

If he did this on purpose, why would he do so? In other words, why would he intentionally make himself look like mafia before the game has even started?
That would be stupid playing to say the least.

Maybe so that people would say "TSO would never do that if he was scum". In his own post he's pointed out that...

I've made out large cases and relentlessly tunnelled on Town as scum.

...which would also tend to antagonize his target and draw attention to him.

Do you think that scum normally do nothing?

Do you think that the more you do, the less likely scum you are?

Do you think scum frame questions so as to avoid the area where they perceive themselves to be vulnerable? I do. And the heart of what Krystal seemed to be trying to get at (Krystal, please correct me if I'm wrong) was the much milder tone you adopted as soon as the game began, as opposed to your previous more caustic behavior. Now I'm pretty old school but I do like inconsistent behavior within the same game as a possible indication that someone is scum.

That said, wildly exaggerating behavior you've found suspicious when placed under pressure...

I was actually thinking that his play after the game started has been anti-antagonistic. So far he's placed a random vote on a player not in the game and done nothing else but defend himself, despite posting like over a bajillion times.

...doesn't sit well with me either. This is not an accurate representation of TSO's behavior. At the point when this post was made TSO had posted 10 times after the game started. Three of these posts were nonsense/opening business. Three of these posts, all made after your initial case, could be classified as defense. Four of these posts, in a mild, early game manner, could be described as investigative. That's ten posts out of 109, which would also indicate that his posting activity was not too far out of line with the average, especially considering that I hadn't posted at all until now.


Riddle...

From my viewpoint, it sounded like a quick bandwagon. From the mafia games I played, mafioso don't like drawing attention to themselves. They would rather just go along with the crowd in order to not raise any questions. I found your question odd which is why I voted for you.

You'll only catch bad scum that way, and you'll catch a lot of timid/disconnected town along the way. On this topic, though...

If he did this on purpose, why would he do so? In other words, why would he intentionally make himself look like mafia before the game has even started?
That would be stupid playing to say the least.

Riddle

, can you explain to me in what way TSO's pregame tomfoolery made him look like mafia? What about the manner in which he behaved would indicate that he was scum?

This is a terrible post:

Here is the order of how I'm going to vote.

1. Riddleton
2. Krysrtal Bald
3. Not_Mafia
4. T S O

Official Vote: Riddleton

But I've read all of HGH's posts on the site (they're aren't that many). HGH are you an alt or do those posts represent your entire experience playing Mafia?

I was bored and decided to have some fun. It wasn't a reaction test, but it works better to say it's a reaction test than flat-out trolling. How would I reaction test people on something that's impossible?

Sure, it could be that. It could also be taking an opportunity to throw chaff into the air in an attempt to skew accurate reads on your behavior. That's the sort of thing good scum might do.


But once again, Krystal, this is really, really bad...

My read on you has nothing to do with whether or not you were trolling. I don't really give a fuck about that. You are now ignoring literally everything that is happening around you and focusing entirely on this conversation because it lets you get away with not scumhunting. Tell me, what's the town motivation for ignoring everything and not scumhunting?

Boiled down to its component parts this reads as "hey, I find it suspicious that you're reacting to my continuing suspicions of you". Now I'll grant you that TSO has made the pretty standard move of flipping your initial suspicions of him back on you, forcing you to stake out positions that can be looked back on later for consistency at the least or forcing you into an error that would allow him to mount a case on you at most. But that can certainly be a form of scumhunting every bit as much as it can be a sound scum defensive maneuver. Like it or not, the confrontation between you and TSO is the main thing that is happening around us, at least until Julatorium weighed in and then this odd thing blew up between Mala and Tammy.

And TSO? Thank you for this post. I feel like I know you so much better now.

On the whole there is more to dislike in Krystal's shading of the facts and opportunistic attack than TSO's aggressive defense.

Julatorium

, I have a couple questions for you.

1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game. Null reaction to the question based on what we know of TSO, but happy we're out of RVS because of it.

Xfd, insanity, and Hgh came in post game-start and made no comments to the issue, infact appeared to wish to resurrect RVS. Why are you RVS'ing when stuff has happenned?

This bothers me a little bit because first you say that TSO's actions only warrant a null reaction but then you criticize Xfd, Insanity, and Hgh for not addressing it? Can you elaborate on this position for me?

You excuse Riddle's behavior as a byproduct of his inexperience, even going so far as to prod Mala and Tammy to reconsider their positions on him, but in the same post you lay a vote down on hgh, whose history (if he is not an alt) would indicate a rather pronounced lack of experience. Could you explain what you find different between the two of them?

Thank you for your answers.

fucking walls

[Krystal Bald]

mala, i don't like insanity's question to you either (about what reaction you were trying to get), considering you already explained what your motive/thing was.

k.. so i still like riddle, tammy/wake, mala for town. i also like tso for town.. even though nikanor might have an aneurysm over that read.

i can't read justin's posts, ie walls. they are mind numbing.

and hgh7193 doesnt seem too bad

not mafia seems very much .... very very much, scum to me.

-mantis

[Krystal Bald]

We're playing League, but I'm following along so that I can make a post when we're done.

[Krystal Bald]

VOTE: not mafia

-mantis

[Krystal Bald]

bah.. sorry mala. am too tired

i do think not mafia is scum though. hence my/our added vote on him, in addition to yours

[Krystal Bald]

or uh.. i guess we were already voting him >.>

[Krystal Bald]

well, that wasn't a post like I was expecting.

expectations were high,

mala was let down

-;;

also, third person talk...

[Krystal Bald]

Mala, Wake, TSO, Juls and probably insanity and Elmo as well are town.
xfda and N_M are still scum together, probably with Justin, but it could be with Riddleton as well.
No read on HGH for obvious reasons but it looks like he's getting replaced anyway so yay for that.

[Krystal Bald]

Actually Elmo's a really borderline read. If I'm wrong about any of my reads, it's my read on him.

[Krystal Bald]

Yep.

[Krystal Bald]

And we would be doing that why?

What do you think of his townslip?

No reason for you to not be doing it, and considering whom your votes are on I'm surprised you even asked.

The townslip looks manufactured.

[Krystal Bald]

And, I wonder if Scum can take control of Day as well. They'd talk about who to lynch secretly, then they go on together.

I don't see how this could be ambiguous

[Krystal Bald]

I hope everything's ok in Malaland.

Juls: idk they just look like town to me. Elmo's arguments are super shaky but I think he actually believes what he's saying.

[Krystal Bald]

And, I wonder if Scum can take control of Day as well. They'd talk about who to lynch secretly, then they go on together.

I don't see how this could be ambiguous

Use your words

[Krystal Bald]

Maybe if TSO apologizes real nice, Dot Matrix will agree to replace back into their slot!

[Krystal Bald]

Hey guys this is a really cute discussion about xfda's activity but we have less than a week until deadline and the biggest wagon right now is two votes, can we please get our shit together and lynch N_M?

[Krystal Bald]

Unvote. Vote: xfdagentx42

[Krystal Bald]

Unvote.

Could easily be lying, gonna wait for the CC.

[Krystal Bald]

The soft claim looked fake. The actual claim is probably fake and I think that xfda is going to be vigged tonight.

[Krystal Bald]

This is why you don't drive a wagon on someone who townslipped

VOTE: Krystal Bald

Hopping on after a blatant softclaim and helping out a PR and just general intransigence with reads

[Krystal Bald]

Vote: Not_Mafia.

[Krystal Bald]

You're reacting very violently to that vote. I don't like that. Are you being defensive to hide your own scumminess?

Eughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wow

[Krystal Bald]

Rids you just dove off the deep end into my scum pool.

[Krystal Bald]

You're reacting very violently to that vote. I don't like that. Are you being defensive to hide your own scumminess?

Eughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wow

Rids you just dove off the deep end into my scum pool.

[Krystal Bald]

Mantis needs to get her ass in the thread.
If the JK protects xfda tonight he's a bloody moron.

[Krystal Bald]

VOTE: KB

This is because I haven't given you any cat gifs yet isn't it.

[Krystal Bald]

Mala, I also know that Mantis lurks as scum. If we'd drawn scum, I'd be fakeposting as her right now. I certainly would not be calling attention to the fact that she's lurking.

Malakittens is still town. Not sure why people are voting for her after her KB vote.
Scum is still N_M, xfda & Riddles, with an option of Justin if xfda doesn't pan out.

[Krystal Bald]

We've never been scum together.

[Krystal Bald]

And even if we had, I could just point to any game where we're scum together and say "I wrote all those posts". So meta not so useful here.
This hydra has never been scum.

[Krystal Bald]

Mala, I also know that Mantis lurks as scum. If we'd drawn scum, I'd be fakeposting as her right now. I certainly would not be calling attention to the fact that she's lurking.

Malakittens is still town. Not sure why people are voting for her after her KB vote.
Scum is still N_M, xfda & Riddles, with an option of Justin if xfda doesn't pan out.

Tbh the only hydra that has ever tricked me with her fake posting as each other was Bert trying to be Mollie. Not sure if you could pull that off.

I spend like 8h a day talking to her. I'm pretty certain I could imitate her syntax.

[Krystal Bald]

I keep getting fucking scumreads and then people keep being town until I HAVE NO SCUMREADS LEFT.

Have you read N_M's posts?

[Krystal Bald]

Yeah, I have, and I keep getting walled by them right at the start where his first 3 posts or so are completely on the ball.

I can see how you'd like the post where he votes for HGH, but that should be nullified by the fact that he never follows up on his questions and instead leaves his vote on HGH for most of the day.
He never follows up on his question to me, and instead lets the two of us go at it for pages.
His reads list is weak. Don't think he's mentioned Elmo at any time before or after this post.

[Krystal Bald]

#curseit, almost made a good post right there.


Might make KB L-1, or Mala. Both of them sound really scummy. But I'll think about this.

P-edit. Hammer time.
UNVOTE: Maruchan
VOTE: Krystal Bald

Lol, you are such a scumbag.

[Krystal Bald]

When xfda flips scum tonight y'all better remember N_M's defense of that fakeass townslip.
Mantis has promised me that she will post tomorrow, so I'd appreciate no hammer until she can get in here to say whatever.

[Krystal Bald]

I could also vote insanity over Krystal (or Mala for that matter).

[Krystal Bald]

Vote: insanity.

Because it's better than me getting lynched.
Also, keep in mind that xfda is probably scum who will autohammer anyone townie who is put at L-1. Do not put anyone at L-1 unless we're ready to end the day.

[Krystal Bald]

/catching up

-mantis

[Krystal Bald]

Btw, I wasnt really paying attention to that thing (pregame nonsense), so I had to go RV. But oh well.
And, I wonder if Scum can

take control of Day as well. They'd talk about who to lynch secretly,

then they go on together. But I dont think its true, cuz people will obvs call that scum. Anyway, wake's post didnt sound really nice. Dont understand it.

The bold is a townslip. What do you mean exactly by it not sounding nice?

and are you trying to get town cred for this? n_m

[Krystal Bald]

Its that its nonsense. Grammar errors, bla bla bla. And I was talking about Wake.

Im glad we didnt start with RVS, cuz Scum can take that RVS.

^i think town

[Krystal Bald]

Spoiler:

1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game.

Well, you can talk about it postgame, I guess - I have no intention of apologising for trolling, and although you seem to think it's outside "the spirit of the game"... I don't.

Wasn't looking for an apology, nor a discussion to prompt one. We've stated that it's a null-tell. It's your nature, so we can't use it to read you.

...what?

You said it required post-game discussion, I said it didn't, you said you weren't looking for a discussion?

What are you even doing?

Our quote wasn't about the content, or your vindication, it was about your nature. This is where you like to wallow. Therefore it can't be used.

Your quote should have been about the content. I enjoy, however, the fact that you are a rank hypocrite. You complain about the levels where the troll named TSO lurks, then post a link to a discussion which you now admit had no relevance other to ...slander my name? Your attempts to take the high moral ground makes me laugh.

We also don't agree with the statement from KB that TSO's demeanor changed at all, or that a perceived change even matters, because he had his role when he made the accusation. It would be different if he didn't have his role, made this play pre-roles, and acted different once the game started. Trolls be trolling.

Wow, lots of words, but no read at all! Trolling =/= scum.

That's right, and the statement is one regarding KB's views, not yours. Your reaction seems disproportionate to us. I thought you had some measure of pride in your trolling efforts?

Not particularly - I've never sold myself as a troll. You're the one who's pushing that I do.

2) Flavor response

Our daughter is going to 3rd grade ACE classes next year, and the kids will have to vote on what subjects they are taught. This is a laughable exercise, because the choices are going to be like... Dinosaurs and Mythical Creatures, or Art and Music appreciation. The classes are inevitably chosen by how many boys and girls are in the class that year.

That said, We dissonantly

choose A

based on rock paper scissors (good ol' rock!).

Yes, yes, you're very smart.

She is. We're proud parents.

Um, no. I never mentioned your daughter. You were the one who was flaunting how you feel the question is useless, before defeating the only purpose you could have for doing that by then participating in the question anyway.

Do you think that scum normally do nothing?

Do you think that the more you do, the less likely scum you are?

Do you think scum frame questions so as to avoid the area where they perceive themselves to be vulnerable? I do. And the heart of what Krystal seemed to be trying to get at (Krystal, please correct me if I'm wrong) was the much milder tone you adopted as soon as the game began, as opposed to your previous more caustic behavior. Now I'm pretty old school but I do like inconsistent behavior within the same game as a possible indication that someone is scum.

My behaviour was inconsistent, yes, because that more "caustic tone" is not my usual. I adopted it solely for people who did and still do get on my nerves (shoutout to you, Julian!). It would be both unenjoyable for me and you if I were to continue to use it. You can simply use my meta to evidence the fact I'm generally a nice guy. I have mean-guy scumgames and towngames. I also have nice-guy scumgames and towngames.

I was bored and decided to have some fun. It wasn't a reaction test, but it works better to say it's a reaction test than flat-out trolling. How would I reaction test people on something that's impossible?

Sure, it could be that. It could also be taking an opportunity to throw chaff into the air in an attempt to skew accurate reads on your behavior. That's the sort of thing good scum might do.

Am I good scum, though? Because if I'm bad scum, this argument falls to pieces.

And TSO? Thank you for this post. I feel like I know you so much better now.

You're welcome - it was enjoyable to show Julatorium why he was wrong. It still is.

But, let's be honest for a second here and I'll cut my condescending bullshit. Julatorium is either a prick, an idiot, or scum. He brought in a topic about verbal abuse, where I was the only example cited, and I was cited from only one game, where I was scum. He saw the quotes of me on the first damn page. Then he comes back, knowing that I can be aggressive and nasty as scum, knowing I'm being aggressive and nasty here, and what does he fucking do? Calls it a null tell! Where's the paranoia? That should set off the alarm bells in his head, because he knows I'm playing to relatively recent scum meta. But he doesn't. If he used that as a Town player should, in an attempt to figure out my alignment, he should be proclaiming wariness of me. He's not. He's probably scum.

You don't take motivation into account, and so your analysis is only surface-deep. Thus, people can easily fool you.

you are wrong with that, speaking on nik's behalf >:I

I disagree - motivation is the key to everything. Words are wind. Everything has a reason, everything is connected.

I would enjoy hearing how Nik scumhunts and pointing out how motivation could a) improve his method or b) factors in his method.

Town.

agree... >.>

[Krystal Bald]

Hey you. That's her playstyle leave it alone. It's a lot easier than reading walls, tbh.

thanks mala

[Krystal Bald]

Yes but it could be a well placed townslip at that.

True but I don't think he's the type of player to drop a 'townslip'

^such scum

[Krystal Bald]

Oh look Mala made a few good posts. Ill give credit where it is due. And if your saying that Tammy slot is town because of something that was said 'pregame' as a confirm. It makes me question everything. So your telling me at that same note if I made a Hydra and used the exact same logic I would be confirmed town then?

What I can't stand is this "Pregame talk" Its pregame does it mean anything and can it be taken at face value? Personally I don't see why you would as anything can be said at that moment to sway opinions.

What really bothers me about Jules is her list. Its crap. Am I surprised I am picked as scum with them. Not at all if you ever read any of my games Im always on a scum list.

And as for the bad cases

Jules

Why wouldn't someone like Mala refer to themselves as town? This is just bad case work once again. Yes because the scum are going to come out and say

HEY IM SCUM VOTE ME OUT OF THIS GAME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IM DOING A TERRIBLE JOB!!!

I think not.

So my question to you Jules is why not vote Insanity then? Wouldn't you think a pressure vote would be better then placing what you could look at as an easy vote?

Side note: Hyrda's make me laugh.

And Jules Ill do your hard work for you since you can't seem to get it done.

VOTE: insanity

scummy.

[Krystal Bald]

So your telling me that I could have said in my first post WOO I'm town and it would have been relevant pregame. Obviously not therefore I say Pregame means absolutely shit. It shows nothing aside you getting your panties in a wad and then saying sorry later. Or did I obviously misread that somewhere along the lines? And beside that why is it relevant? Please enlighten me. Because I see nothing relevant before the first "Official post" Where you can do what you want and vote then.

First and foremost what information have I said was good? Congrats you posted a list and made some waves in this game among all the fluff posting you did. Lets face the facts when you post a list people talk. That's what happens Its not hard. And your cases are still complete shit. Lets put it that way. And Jesus its not hard to look at someones ISO and realize there was nothing there. Moreso what you did was prove Insanity is lurking and boom! Hell I figured I could do something you seem to be unable to do. Not fluff post the shit out of this game and what have you. Sitting here with your vote where it is isn't doing much just proving nothing more useful then not voting.

Oh look someone can read into a Meta. WIth unnatural proclamations. Why not do a meta search on everyone else in this game then? But obviously her self proclamations had something to do with it I'm also assuming or am I just a crazy person.

What's there to back up with your case? You posted a list. It doesn't make you look any more town to me and all it does it get people to talk about reads and look who shows up. Half the town that actually is here doesn't help when you have lurker city up in here.

If you want town credit for the list. Look elsewhere you're not getting it here. And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.

scummy.

[Krystal Bald]

@Wake Are you caught up or are you posting as you catch up?

serious?

that's your input?

[Krystal Bald]

Sorry everyone, I've been quite busy over the past couple of days.

So my question to you Jules is why not vote Insanity then? Wouldn't you think a pressure vote would be better then placing what you could look at as an easy vote?

Side note: Hyrda's make me laugh.

And Jules Ill do your hard work for you since you can't seem to get it done.

VOTE: insanity

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Why would you vote for the person that your top scumread claims to be suspicious of?

VOTE: Elmo

^yay, town!

[Krystal Bald]

Mala, Wake, TSO, Juls and probably insanity and Elmo as well are town.
xfda and N_M are still scum together, probably with Justin, but it could be with Riddleton as well.
No read on HGH for obvious reasons but it looks like he's getting replaced anyway so yay for that.

jc, i agree on everyone except for elmo. that and i think xdagent might be town.
i'm thinking not mafia, and elmo right now. (for scum)
and riddleton as town.
not sure on anyone else either

[Krystal Bald]

^except, mala as town as well. (you know that) saying that more for other's sake

[Krystal Bald]

So you think we as partners would stay voteparked on the same wagon?

ah, another random scummish question.

[Krystal Bald]

Yep.

: )

[Krystal Bald]

So here's the question of the hour. What are viable wagons to vote?

insanity

[Krystal Bald]

This is why you don't drive a wagon on someone who townslipped

VOTE: Krystal Bald

Hopping on after a blatant softclaim and helping out a PR and just general intransigence with reads

nik still doesn't believe him.

[Krystal Bald]

Spoiler:

You're reacting very violently to that vote. I don't like that. Are you being defensive to hide your own scumminess?

Eughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wow

Rids you just dove off the deep end into my scum pool.

heh

[Krystal Bald]

Moonlight is probably town, it was a bad reaction test

but

I can see why he thought it might work. In regards to Maru and Krystal, lynch one and have agent vig the other, if somehow neither if them are scum I'll be looking at Mala tomorrow

Was this repetition of your post meant to provide an explanation for Mala moving her vote? Because she moved her vote before you posted it, seemingly in reaction to Riddle's vote actually moving Maru close to lynch (l-2).


...Mala just took her vote off Maru, the leading wagon, to put it on KB, who she's been riding a bicycle-built-for-two with since this game started, who was at the time being voted only by Not_Mafia, arguably her most consistent scum pick of the game.

Unvote

Vote: Malakittens

Hey Not_Mafia? How about you move up your timetable on Mala by a day?

she's still not scum though.

-mantis

[Krystal Bald]

Elmo and Maru, I guess, but that's POE, not scumreads.

nothing wrong with POE

i have to reread maru's iso once i finish catching up.

[Krystal Bald]

she's still not scum though.

-mantis

I'd sure like it if someone gave me some reason, any reason, just why this is.

k, let me finish catching up.

but i just don't think she is. her reaction test with tammy at the beginning, feeling bad on her part looked genuine to me. and the vote hopping doesn't bother me at all. i'm not pleased that she's voting us right now. but i think it's probably fair, since i said to her that we should work together, then dropped out. but, i probably mostly like her earlier suspicion on N_M (not sure where she is now with him)... but he screams scum to me.

[Krystal Bald]

Hmm, I quite like Maruchan's catchup post and don't think that we should lynch him today.

I doubt Krystal Bald and Mala are both scum. I think KB is more likely due to the timing of their vote and then unvote on xdfa.

VOTE: Krystal Bald

It's mala and insanity and <?>.
That is all.

insanity, why do you quite like his catchup?

[Krystal Bald]

also, insanity - what are your thoughts on justin?
also, what happened to your elmo scum read? >.>

[Krystal Bald]

your vote seems very opportunistic. and i was thinking you were town last night.... >:I

@insanity

[Krystal Bald]

feeling bad on her part looked genuine to me.

This proves she is a decent human being. It doesn't really say anything about her alignment in this game.

fine. but her posting in general seems genuine to me. i really dislike the votes on her. though, i do think jules is town. i wasn't sure at first, but the posting seems solid. i like what they had to say about xdfagent. i agree in that regard (even though nik still thinks he's prob scum)

[Krystal Bald]

justin, what do you think of N_M? (sry if you've said and i've missed it)

[Krystal Bald]

Justin, the vig should NOT out their target because if they choose a townie then the scum will leave the vig alone. If they claim scum then they will shoot the vig. Plus, the jail keeper may or may not protect/block the vig tonight.

^

[Krystal Bald]

iso'ed maru.. ish.

i don't like his votes. also, doesn't seem to have a lot of other reads either. for example, just a vote on mala, then a vote on us... and some banter about xd and the vig thing. what about all the other players, maru?

(oh wait, there was a town read on justin in there for ~reasons, and a no read on insanity). still not very much.


for town i like
mala, tso, jules <-- strongest town reads

probably town
moonlight, riddle*, xdagent (nik was saying that xd will be sorted tonight anyway)

*- i thought he was town at the beginning, but not really liking the lack of posts recently, so my town read is slipping

not certain yet
justin, riddle (let's put riddle in here actually)

even more not certain
maru

scummy
N_M, elmo and insanity now. i really dislike her timing and placing of her current vote. and all of a sudden she drops her elmo scum read.

[Krystal Bald]

-mantishead

[Krystal Bald]

At this point I see Not_Mafia as probable scum.

i honestly think he should be today's vote. and i'm surprised not more people are voting him.. or have even placed a vote on him as the game proceeded

[Krystal Bald]

also ya, the looking at mala tomorrow seems indecisive.. or like, trying to keep his options open

[Krystal Bald]

justin is moving up in town list. i think justin, it was your case on mala that i didn't like..

this post
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5977332

[Krystal Bald]

Vote Count 1.10

Elmo TeH AzN (0) =
insanity018 (4) = Moonlight TSO Julatorium KrystalBald
Julatorium (1) = ElmoTeHAzN
Justin Playfair (0) =
Krystal Bald (5) = Not_Mafia Malakittens insanity018 xfdagentx42 Maruchan
Malakittens (1) = JustinPlayfair
Maruchan (1) = Riddleton
Moonlight (0) =
Not_Mafia (0) =
Riddleton (0) =
T S O (0) =
xfdagentx42 (0) =

Not voting =

V/LA: Elmo TeH AzN through Sat 7/5

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is in (expired on 2014-07-05 01:30:00)

the two conflicting wagons without a clear lynch this late into day one makes me think we've caught a scum somewhere in the wagons. This points to a Krystal Scum. (Y) good catch guys

pphhhh! lol

[Krystal Bald]

maruchan, what do you think of N_M?

[Krystal Bald]

iso'ed maru.. ish.

i don't like his votes. also, doesn't seem to have a lot of other reads either. for example, just a vote on mala, then a vote on us... and some banter about xd and the vig thing. what about all the other players, maru?

(oh wait, there was a town read on justin in there for ~reasons, and a no read on insanity). still not very much.


for town i like
mala, tso, jules <-- strongest town reads

probably town
moonlight, riddle*, xdagent (nik was saying that xd will be sorted tonight anyway)

*- i thought he was town at the beginning, but not really liking the lack of posts recently, so my town read is slipping

not certain yet
justin, riddle (let's put riddle in here actually)

even more not certain
maru

scummy
N_M, elmo and insanity now. i really dislike her timing and placing of her current vote. and all of a sudden she drops her elmo scum read.

You literally can't read. I have, three times now, posted my reads on every player in the game.

Krystal Scum just got uber-confirmed status.

i missed your spoiler here
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5986310

[Krystal Bald]

i will now painstakingly read through this wall of stream

[Krystal Bald]

</3 Krystal posts kitten pictures fluff, just like mala seems to like. Less fluff, more responses.

they are cute n funny tho

also, you're wrong and your votes are bad

[Krystal Bald]

maruchan, what do you think of N_M?

in that spoiler, you said N_M was null for you. do you still feel this way?

[Krystal Bald]

why is insanity clear

They aren't, Krystal is just confirmed scum, so insanity's wagon is the distraction wagon in this situation.

[Krystal Bald]

lol

[Krystal Bald]

guys, i think elmo or N_M. i'd be more than happy to do either

[Krystal Bald]

insanity.. not moonlight though

[Krystal Bald]

I think I want to vote Elmo.

and ya. his last post was specifically underwhelming. not to mention his other scummy posts

[Krystal Bald]

insanity, i like your last post

but..
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5987240

how come if you would rather vote one of them... why did you make an effort to put a reason here when voting for us?

[Krystal Bald]

mala talk to meee

[Krystal Bald]

Unvote. Vote: Elmo.

[Krystal Bald]

Kay at least one of KB and/or insanity are scum for this last minute wagon change. Something is off and yes I'm VLA but this day and tommorow ill be in a car so ill likely post. It's the rest of the other dsys

no, it's voting a scum read.

the wagon choice before was between us and insanity.. so of course nikanor was going to vote insanity earlier.

this is a much better wagon (elmo)

[Krystal Bald]

Always a last second wagon

[Krystal Bald]

We won't be going back to insanity, FEveryone'sI

[Krystal Bald]

cause elmo's a better lynch

[Krystal Bald]

elmo and not mafia, for sure.

[Krystal Bald]

and xfda, also.

[Krystal Bald]

^mantis

[Krystal Bald]

I'm fine voting her, in fact, I have voted her, but I don't get the cAse on Elmo and I'm liking KB as scum.

Ps you should be shot in the face >.>

Anyways KB has more votes than Elmo so yeah.

bah

[Krystal Bald]

and xfda, also.

liar

[Krystal Bald]

he's likely the vig, and even if we don't get lynched he's probably going to gleefully shoot us, thinking he's got scum.

[Krystal Bald]

insanity is likely a disinterested and/or lazy Townie.

KB read Town to me.

TSO, Julatorium and Mala are Town reads I'm confident about. I'm less confident about Riddleton just because of his absence, but his early play still feels towny to me.

Elmo's posts are just... empty. When was the last time he scumhunted in this?

these are very much my reads as well

-mantis

[Krystal Bald]

If I compromise on this, I want Elmo dead tomorrow morning. I do not care if you think Not_Mafia/insanity is scum, the only reason I ever townread Elmo was because he was the counterwagon to xfda who I was pushing as scum.

I really hate how Riddleton has begun to lurk like fuck.

We can get Elmo tomorrow. Especially when Krystal flips scum

This is a complete 180 from the shit you were spewing earlier about how there's no way Elmo is scum with this last-minute wagon. If you are town you're going to have to seriously consider your scumhunting methods after this game.

We're a VT.
If xfda

is

the vig then I honestly doubt that N_M is scum. In that case, it'd be Riddleton, Justin and someone else.

[Krystal Bald]

Elmo is probably town but he is an asshole and I fucking hate his guts so I had no problem voting him. But if I do get lynched and xfda is the vig then shoot either Riddleton or Justin instead.

[Krystal Bald]

I'd still be up for an insanity lynch tho. It's a shot in the dark for me but hey it's better than a rope around my neck.

[Krystal Bald]

Mantis will be back from work in ~3-4 hours & we have 8 hours until deadline. I'd appreciate if you wait for her final words.

[Krystal Bald]

and xfda, also.

Scum alert. Why would you still think im scum when i already claimed?

[Krystal Bald]

and xfda, also.

Scum alert. Why would you still think im scum when i already claimed?

nikanor didn't really believe it. i'm not sure where he's at now with it.
i did/do believe it.

he was messing around and signed that post as me saying it, but he was just being a silly coatl


i'm gonna finish iso'ing a few people and then get some reads out.

[Krystal Bald]

Kb lynch? Or should we question her to see if shes really scum or not.

She is being lynched. Plan accordingly.

your insistence is incredibly irritating

[Krystal Bald]

k,

tso

- town

jula

- solid posting, i like them. on a side note, i like the sarcasm of this post: 607 ^_^

moonlight

- i very much agree with his reads. and i was able to actually read his first post and thought it seemed very natural/not contrived or anything 434

mala

- i have liked her as town the whole game. but i was just chatting with nikanor, and we were kinda thinking that her vote on us has been sticky-ish. i think the only reason she gave was because i was lurking, and hasn't said any more than that; just laid down a vote. so, i don't like that so much, but all the rest of her posts *do* seem genuine to me.

xdfagent

- prob the vig. why invite a counterclaim as scum, on day 1. too risky

maruchan

- he's a little jumpy i think.. but i kinda lean town. also his insistence that we be lynched looks more like a town than scum thing. if he was scum, he'd now that we'd flip town, so ya.. on another note, scum are probably the ones to nonchalantly place their votes and not make a big fuss of it

^so these are pretty much my town reads, with the exception of wondering a little on mala now.

---

elmo

- after reading his iso, i kind of like his attitude. his posts do seem to come across as genuine to me.
---

---

justin

- i honestly don't know. starting to lose interest in reading iso's now..
---

insanity

- i felt like her timing of vote right here seemed pretty opportunistic: 594. i know, moonlight, you liked her claiming that maru is town. but ehh.

riddleton

- had him as town. but after reading his iso, he could actually be scum. his disappearance is very suspicious. didn't like this post much 49 seemed like fanning the flames

not mafia

- i still think scummy. yes he pointed out agent's town slip, but i think scum can still do that.



so ya, pretty much i think scum are in [insanity, N_M, riddle] with being uncertain of [justin] and starting to change my mind on elmo into leaning more town now. and being curious of mala's vote, without engaging us much now

sorry for the wall
also, you guys suck

[Krystal Bald]

^mantis

[Krystal Bald]

DATS A LYNCH

>.>

<- town

[Krystal Bald]

riddle, insanity and n_m !

[Krystal Bald]

yup.