Open 560: Tit for Tat (Game Over, 4/12 alive)

[Moonlight]

I am going to skim all pages and comment on things that I find noteworthy. Fasten your seatbelts, this might be wally. >_>

Page 1: Typical pregame stuff as far as I can tell.

Page 2: Oooh. I like that reaction test. Why did people get annoyed? If it doesn't break a rule and it can help a wincon, do it. TSO gives a reason to townread him from the get-go.

Page 3: Sheesh, and I thought that

I

can be too dramatic. The only thing bothering me is that people proceeded with RVS when they could simply townread/scumread TSO and build from there. >_< I dislike agent's vote.

Page 4: I love 80 from Krystal Bald. That vote sucked, and scum voting scum in RVS is not exactly unheard of. Townreading Riddleton, TSO and Krystal so far (I can expand on reasoning if needed).

Page 5: My townreads are going at each other. Get agent!

Page 6: Mmm, the wagon on HGH ain't bad, but I hope to see some pressure on agent soon.

Page 7: 174 doesn't appeal to me. If you're going to feel bad and unvote, at least push towards another direction. >_< If she doesn't soon, I'm going to believe that post was just an excuse for scum-Mala to sit back and do nothing.

Page 8: Woah, content. 175 is good, but for crying out loud why no vote?! And in 176 there's a bet that there's at least one scum in my slot and Mala but the vote is elsewhere?! *ponders on Mala-Julatorium being scum* And to top it off, agent makes himself look even worse than them! Mala and agent aren't scum together judging by the former's vote and the timing.

Page 9: I'm starting to warm up to Mala's posts, despite all the "I'm Town" stuff. Getting confident on my Krystal townread too.

Page 10: 243 and 244 are bad, and while I like the push on NM I'd like to see even more pressure on agent.

Page 11: I'm starting to like Julatorium thanks to 273 (even though I'm not a fan of his NM read, he hasn't done much either!).

Page 12: Okay, TSO looks Town as fuck with those posts and Mala looks even better after sharing her thoughts. Where's agent?

Page 13: Nothing noteworthy, strangely. Wondering what to make of Elmo and insanity.

Page 14: Yay, it's agent and he still looks awful, hooray! I love TSO's posts, I want him to be Town so badly.

Page 15: Still not sure what to make of Elmo and insanity and I'm amazed that agent's reactions haven't been capitalized on. Put more pressure until it breaks!

Page 16: What is this talk of other people's lynches? Come onnnn, agent is asking for it. Pretty please? In other news, I like most posts by Julatorium but 386 is just erroneous, the "if" could refer to her being lynched. >_>

Page 17: A vig claim before L-1? Bullshit.

Page 18: Here I come!

*goes after agent without a care in the world*

VOTE: xfdagentx42

[Moonlight]

Anyone have a townread on Riddle? If you do tell me why please.

(mine kinda was killed)

I do. His very early posts just scream newbTown to me, particularly the caution he showed combined with his activity and not being afraid to express himself openly despite the disapproval of him not taking part in the early RVS.

A vig claim before L-1? Bullshit.

I think it's bullshit too but I guess we'll have to wait and see if there's a CC.

A CC would make me sad, I find it hard to believe that a vig would get this upset with just one vote (at the time) on them.

So it is retarded to lynch this person as if it is a fake claim the REAL vig will just shoot them.

Fair enough. >_> I wish I had more confidence in other scumreads. NM's play seems different to the one game I've played with him where he was Town, so I wouldn't oppose that wagon. HGH is also doing nothing while all this is going on, so a wagon on either of these two is fine by me.

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

Quick meta skim makes him likely town, maybe, slighty.

Really? I disagree, but I haven't bothered to check all his games, I'm speaking just from one game with him, so take that with a grain of salt. >_>

[Moonlight]

Fair enough. >_> I wish I had more confidence in other scumreads. NM's play seems different to the one game I've played with him where he was Town, so I wouldn't oppose that wagon. HGH is also doing nothing while all this is going on, so a wagon on either of these two is fine by me.

This would be the point where you unvote.

I don't like unvoting without going after someone in particular and I'm trying to make up my mind. I'm getting confident in my townreads of TSO, Riddle, you and Mala. But other than agent, I have no scumread I'm confident about, and any vote I place would be an obvious pressure vote. >_<

[Moonlight]

I require it from myself. I hate not going after anyone. If I was concerned about how I appear, I'd indulge you and unvote.

I'm keeping my vote there until I see reason to do so otherwise and that's that. Yes, even without a CC, deal with it.

[Moonlight]

Ok. Scums, not mafia and insanity, idk the 3rd though.

He said while having his vote... on HGH.

This is textbook newbscum in my book and it's among the things that make me really doubt that claim even without a CC.

A) Drink the flight.

[Moonlight]

I hopped too. Why are you after Krystal and not me?

Chuckling at agent's "I'm gonna get vigged". This guy just scumslipped the way I read it. But please, don't mind me, continue focusing on the probably-fake townslip of his.

[Moonlight]

Moreover, it's really unfair to blame anyone but agent for the wagon on him. If this guy is Town, I know I'd shoot him if I was scum because of how easily the pressure got on him.

[Moonlight]

Why? I wanted a wagon on the guy since RVS, it was that obvious that in no way is he a VT. And if it's obvious to me, I assume that it's obvious to everyone else too, scum included.

I'm also considering the mindfuck that can be pulled off by scum if he is telling the truth and they shoot someone else instead. I don't want to believe he outed himself without thinking of the consequences.

[Moonlight]

Blame me? Only me for the wagon? Excuse me. TSO doesnt understand it at all. Remember that.

TSO is trying harder than me to understand you from the looks of things.

Let me show you what your play looks like from my own point of view!

"Herpaderp, oh noez I got votes, must claim so they go away, who cares if I die by doing so and if I confuse everyone over my decision to claim now, this is totally gonna rock and in no way are the scum going to let me live on purpose so they can lynch me on D2 based on me surviving the night, no sir! I'M AWESOME!"

Do you see why I really,

really

don't want to believe you?

@TSO: Is it the lack of a counterclaim that makes you believe this guy's Town? If it's something else, please enlighten me because I can't (or perhaps just don't want to?) see what you're seeing. =/

[Moonlight]

Moonlight why are you so intent on driving a wagon on an un CC'd PR that is dying to tonight if he was lying anyway. He does not have a completed game on site, treat his claim like you're in a newbie game

Perhaps the reason there's no CC is because the vig wouldn't want to out themself just to get rid of that guy. There's 3 scum to go, it's not an easy decision.

There are three possible scenarios:

1) He's the actual Vigilante: lynching him puts us a Vig down.
2) He's scum claiming Vigilante: he gets a free pass for one night before he dies from a Vigi. If their Doctor protects him, the lack of a kill proves his guilt.
3) He's Town claiming Vigilante: I do not think he would do this.

2 confuses me. Why are you assuming a dead JK? They have a backup, not a JK from the get-go. Townslip?

I kind of want to sheep you to be honest, 'cause I can't be confident in reading someone I don't understand at all. >_>

[Moonlight]

*sighs* Fine, my vote's not gonna do much there anyway. Problem is, HGH is missing so my vote there won't do much either. N_M would have been my next choice, but his defense of agent makes me want to wait and see how that plays out.

*sighs even more*

VOTE: insanity018

[Moonlight]

Moonlight for his terrible terrible terrible push on xfd both before and after the claim.

insanity and Justin voted me having a similar mindset, so I will reply with them in mind too.

It's one thing to dislike my play, and another thing to find it scummy. The first one, I can understand. The second one? Not so much.

From my own point of view, both votes on me may be opportunistic and a great way for insanity and Justin to pretend they are scumhunting.

I'm happy with where my vote is at last, but I'm not so happy with the scattering of votes on too many players. We're starting to run out of time, and I really want a flip, any flip that's not TSO, Jul, Mala or Riddle.

[Moonlight]

Moonlight for his terrible terrible terrible push on xfd both before and after the claim.

insanity and Justin voted me having a similar mindset, so I will reply with them in mind too.

It's one thing to dislike my play, and another thing to find it scummy. The first one, I can understand. The second one? Not so much.

From my own point of view, both votes on me may be opportunistic and a great way for insanity and Justin to pretend they are scumhunting.

You were trying to drive a wagon on an unCC'd vig, you see nothing wrong with that?

I don't. If I was driving a serious attempt to lynch him, then we'd be talking. I wanted the wagon to form so he can crack even more, but people are too careful for my liking. -_-

[Moonlight]

And your aim in that doing that was?

Do I really need to spell out the obvious? In which cases do you want a wagon on someone without wanting their lynch?

I'm going back and forth between amusement and frustration at the votes on me and considerations for my lynch. As if I'm moronic enough to expect a lynch to go through on a claimed PR without a CC.

[Moonlight]

Oh, please don't confuse us. We think your play is scummy as fuck. Your initial post reads as someone who saw a wagon on xfd and was intent on voting them before reading a single word. This to us look like scum manufacturing a case to hop on an easy wagon. We see no town motivation whatsoever to do that.

Bold words. If only your vote reflected them.

[Moonlight]

Cute.

Since I need to spell it out, I wanted him to crack even more so I can tell with confidence if his frustration comes from a silly vig that outed himself, or scum that fakedclaimed without realizing their imminent death. Something more than "OMG I REALLY AM THE VIG".

As for the wagon, I wanted to see who else would join it, and from there I'd work out if their goal was the same as mine, or they were really trying to get him lynched. Instead, joke's on me because now it seems as if I wanted him lynched. xD

[Moonlight]

Why on earth did Mala wagon hop there without a single word? We're not going to lynch anyone at this rate. >_<

[Moonlight]

#curseit, almost made a good post right there.


Might make KB L-1, or Mala. Both of them sound really scummy. But I'll think about this.

P-edit. Hammer time.
UNVOTE: Maruchan
VOTE: Krystal Bald

Lol, you are such a scumbag.

Wait, wait, wait. When I voted agent, I was scum according to Jul. Now KB says this, and they're not included in Jul's 600?

Hmm.

[Moonlight]

In fact, when exactly did I stop being scumread by Julatorium? Why aren't I in 600?

[Moonlight]

Why are you flipping out? It's a simple question, which you still haven't answered.

[Moonlight]

This isn't the first time someone doesn't want to get vigged. Let me refresh some minds.

I feel it's worth saying you should vig HGH tonight.

Do not fucking vig me because I was pushing you.

What was Julatorium's reaction to that?

@TSO - have you read HGH's one other game on site? I get the impression he doesn't know how to play mafia at all. I think this is also a weak player and he needs to be replaced, not lynched.

Mod: please replace HGH

Not a word regarding that matter.

Also xdfag pick a diff vig target than me if the insanity lynch goes through. Confirm to me that you won't vig me. >_>

What's their reaction when Mala does it?

Mala is doing one of three things, none of them are good
1) she is a town PR trying not to get vigged. This is dumb because scum are likely smart enough to figure that out.
2) she is scum preparing to fake claim
3) she is town vanilla trying to draw the nightkill by crumbling jail keeper. This is a little better but still bad cause if a real jail keeper were worried about getting vigged they would just jail the vig.

So, we would prefer you stop beating around the bush and just claim.

A claim suggestion.

Double standards for the win.

[Moonlight]

And as much as I want such an annoying amount of bias to mean something, I think I know better. I'm just not surprised anymore that they're failing to read me. >_>

I almost want them to vote me now, that would make me smile.

[Moonlight]

The argument is there, but it might be too subtle for you. It's an argument against your competency, not anything related to your alignment.

So no, I don't think you're scummy, just bad.

[Moonlight]

I really hate Moonlight's recent posts about Julatorium. He makes a lot of noise about Julatorium being contradictory but ends up concluding that none of that really matters. It seems more like an attempt to discredit as opposed to find scum.

Because that's exactly what it is, genius. Does that make me scum?

I don't need to find scum when my vote is on you, really. I've been waiting to see you share your thoughts about this game, but your posts don't reveal much. You're being pretty hard to read, and I want to believe you're doing that on purpose.

Do I have to treat you like a 5-year-old and ask you what exactly makes you townread Maruchan? Yes, you mentioned what you like about his posts, but why do they make him Town in your eyes?

[Moonlight]

Since we're speaking of N_M, he is hard for me to figure out in this one. He got inquisitive with me, and I can't tell if there was Town motivation to get a read on me or scum motivation to figure out if I'm the vig instead of agent. >_<

[Moonlight]

So here's the question of the hour. What are viable wagons to vote?

Here's the

real

question of the hour: is Elmo so lazy that he won't read the vote count on this page, or is he perhaps hesitant to join a wagon because his buddies are already on it?

[Moonlight]

insanity, do you mind answering what I asked in 664? What makes Maruchan Town in your eyes?

[Moonlight]

Your 1st point shows naivete (I have seen numerous cases where scum give detailed reads). I'm not getting the impression that you're fabricating that, which is making me waffle on my read on you. >_<

The 2nd point isn't strong either, one can easily give pro-Town advice as scum for the cred. I understand why you

want

Maruchan to be Town, at least.

Is there enough time to lynch Elmo instead?

VOTE: Elmo

[Moonlight]

I don't want KB lynched either, by the way. They're very active and can be sorted out later. Besides, their lash at agent felt towny to me.

[Moonlight]

Unvote
Vote: Elmo

We don't have enough TIME for an elmo wagon this close to deadline! We're going to no-lynch!!!!

As long as everyone checks the thread within the next 15 hours (and I expect everyone who is responsible enough to sign up for a game to do so unless they're on V/LA), we're good.

But your disapproval of it has been noted. If we lynch Elmo and he flips scum, I'm going to grin until my face hurts.

[Moonlight]

@MOD:

If Riddleton is replaced, can we have a deadline extension?

[Moonlight]

insanity is likely a disinterested and/or lazy Townie.

KB read Town to me.

TSO, Julatorium and Mala are Town reads I'm confident about. I'm less confident about Riddleton just because of his absence, but his early play still feels towny to me.

Elmo's posts are just... empty. When was the last time he scumhunted in this?

[Moonlight]

The KB lynch was fucking stupid. >_>

I'm still on the fence regarding insanity. At the same time, I'm wondering if agent is scum and the real vig got roleblocked, but that's something that should resolve on its own in the second night.

And why on earth is Riddleton still in the game?

[Moonlight]

neil, are you going to fakeclaim in every game we're in together? xD

[Moonlight]

No, but you can yell at me if you want. Maybe then I'll stop being lazy and scumhunt!

... Seriously, I have no solid scumread to go after. Someone do something scummy please?

[Moonlight]

*is wondering if agent's disappearance came from him expecting to die in the first night*

Eh, not going to be arsed with that slot for obvious reasons.

Maruchan discouraged the Elmo wagon, but so much for that slot being scum.

If one of Mala and Elmo is scum (which I don't quite follow, an explanation would help), my money's on Elmo.

VOTE: Elmo

[Moonlight]

Hmmm.

Why isn't xfda dead?

*continues the train of thought*

Why was Maru the only one who died?

Did our jailkeeper block scum? Did they protect a victim? Were the Mafia inactive? Did everyone hate Maru and he got shot twice in the same night?

So many questions, so few answers.

And I continue to feel useless because I can't scumread anyone with confidence in this game. Instead, I have a list of people I don't want to see lynched (and even them I get paranoid about at times) and anyone not in it can drop dead for all I care.

[Moonlight]

Flavor: C)

You look like you're trying to make a fashion statement, but I'm not sure if it's about wedding cakes, swans or something I can't even imagine.

[Moonlight]

*jumps off the fence*

The Elmo wagon doesn't seem to be going anywhere anyway.

VOTE: insanity

[Moonlight]

insanity, share your reads please. Who do you think is scum and why, type out every thought you have no matter how unimportant it might seem to you.

[Moonlight]

I honestly can't understand the way insanity thinks. The reasoning she's using for her scumreads makes me roll my eyes. =/

And I don't know if that's because she's scum who's fabricating her reads or she's just a Townie that thinks differently.

[Moonlight]

I'm also starting to scumread N_M because I don't see enough effort from him. Subjective, I know, deal with it. >_>

[Moonlight]

Insanity -;; -- I really have a hard time believing you as town would list a scum list like that. It's basically almost everyone's who's voting you.

I'll play devil's advocate: if insanity is Town, she might be trying to find scum on her wagon because she lacks the common sense to realize that she is confirmed Town only to herself, not to anyone else.

It comes down to how sharp and self-aware she is as a player, and so far she's given me the impression that she might be lacking.

I don't mean to be condescending, I don't regard myself as a good player, I'm just sharing my thoughts.

[Moonlight]

*is strongly considering hopping back on the Elmo wagon*

I wish we could lynch more than one on the same day. >_>

[Moonlight]

So Elmo why aren't you voting her then if you think that?

Don't trust people putting someone at L-1

Why the hell not? If someone derphammers there will be consequences. So why are you

really

avoiding to vote her?

[Moonlight]

VOTE: Elmo

Who is scum and why, Elmo. You dislike insanity's posts but at least she gave some reads, you haven't scumhunted whatsoever on this day. -_-

[Moonlight]

Are we really going to lose this due to apathy? =/

We're getting closer to the deadline and it's still not clear who we're lynching.

@agent:

If we lynch one of Elmo or insanity and they flip Town, shoot the other. If you don't townread me, shoot me.

If insanity is scum, be wary of TSO and neil.

If Elmo is scum, same for N_M and Justin.

I can't be arsed to explain why these teams make sense, you either have adequate intelligence to guess what I'm looking at or you don't.

[Moonlight]

So here is my view on the gamestate right now: We have two main wagons stagnating in the same fashion that two wagons did on day one. These both imply one is on scum and one is on town. KB has flipped town and Insanity is/was a wagon present on both days. If and when Insanity flips scum I'm going to assume KB and Elmo were scum driven alternatives and work from there. I would like to lynch Insanity sooner rather than later so we can stop wallowing around and sometimes a lynch and flip is needed for that.

The way I look at it, the Elmo wagon was discouraged on D1 and we lynched a Townie, so now I'm getting the impression that history is repeating itself.

At the same time, I'm questioning the meaning behind each stagnation; what if it's all a product of simple paranoia?

And yet, I'll be amazed if both insanity and Elmo are Town. If needed I'll switch but my money's still on Elmo.

[Moonlight]

Justin hasn't posted in almost a week and he's still in this?!

Elmo, N_M and Justin are scum, mark my words.

Still looking for a replacement

[Moonlight]

Oh and...

Flavor: B)

[Moonlight]

@mala, Juls, neil and agent:

3 of you need to get on the Elmo wagon for that lynch to happen. I don't want insanity lynched over him, she's more useful than Elmo and his flip is more useful than hers from my perspective.

[Moonlight]

That hammer is making me less confident about Elmo and very paranoid of neil and TSO. I hope I'm wrong. :S

[Moonlight]

Just because you're too quiet/goddamn inactive doesnt mean you're scum already.

But you're wrong. A Townie's goal is to find scum and get them lynched. A person that joins games without that motivation shouldn't play.

I won't even be upset if Elmo flips Town. He contributed nothing and showed zero drive to scumhunt. If it wasn't for neil's awkward hammer, I'd be as confident as I can be that Elmo will flip scum. And even with that I'm still hoping.

[Moonlight]

Hi.

I am town.

If you're lying and there's red text in your PM, you owe TSO big time. He looked Town as fuck and was being townread by everyone when he pushed for Elmo's lynch (so he didn't really need the towncred). I don't want your slot lynched.

Justin/Lemniscate flipping Town was unexpected. insanity looks worse with agent's death, as does Mala with Elmo's flip combined with her wanting insanity lynched instead.

And yet, something tells me I should leave those two be. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems too straightforward to be right.

VOTE: neil

[Moonlight]

928 sticks out for me. I've only played one game with him (I was scum and he was Town) and that specific post shows an "eager to please" mentality that Town-neil completely lacked in my opinion. >_>

[Moonlight]

Awful resemblance? You need your eyes checked, or maybe you're looking at things that I do regardless of alignment.

What I'm having a hard time with now is telling whether you're genuinely trying to get me lynched out of despair, or you're just testing me... in which case, this post is my reaction.

Anything else?

[Moonlight]

Wait, hang on... you actually compared me voting you in that game for being confident of a Town flip to voting you here for being eager to please and you called that a resemblance by bringing up your hammer here (which has nothing to do with my vote)?

Are you trolling/high/drunk?

[Moonlight]

Hopping on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elmo

I don't care which of Elmo or Insanity is hung up but oddly after a previous game, I tend to trust Moon. A bit too much I'd say.

This post is gold. You implied in it that you have reason to trust me in this one. Let me guess, it vanished as soon as my vote came, right?

[Moonlight]

notty, get in here and tell me if neil is overly paranoid Town or scum. I'm going back and forth between being indecisive to wanting him lynched. >_<

[Moonlight]

Who is moonlight

Because I don't recognize that name

I'm reading tonight/tomorrow.

I don't believe we've played together before. I'm not an alt, just somewhat new and not playing many games at a time.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts. I'll be tormenting myself wondering if there's tactical significance behind Juls' replacement in the meantime. >_>

[Moonlight]

Now try "deciphering" the rest of them. Amuse me.

[Moonlight]

But seriously, address 1001 at least.

[Moonlight]

The silence disgusts me. Why did you guys sign up for a game you don't feel like playing?

I'm off to bed, there better be posts and some fucking passion when I check tomorrow.

[Moonlight]

Moonlight, if neil is mafia who do you think might be his scumbuddy?

I was thinking N_M, until...

Hello Hephaestus. I don't lile Monnlight vote on Neil, but i dislike
Neil's reaction even less. Despite that m
Neither gave off scumvibes and i like the slots. I don't th8nl both wagons were on scum yesterday but PoE always leaves me with insanity. So basically I'm fucking lost this game and it's really frustrating

... this happened. I can relate a lot to what N_M is expressing here and call it gut but I don't think he's faking.

neil, say something.

[Moonlight]

neil, I'll try to rephrase 1001 and hopefully you'll answer.

I voted you partly through PoE and partly because you gave me the impression that you're eager to please others, a quality that contradicts what I saw from you in our one completed game.

You responded with what looks like an OMGUS vote from my point of view, because you're finding similarities to my scum play based on the falsehood that your hammer on Elmo is relevant to my vote.

Am I getting through to you now? Do you understand my confusion and cluelessness?

[Moonlight]

When I ask myself "If neil is Town, who is scum?", I come up with "insanity and TSO/notty".

Think of how TSO pushed for Elmo's lynch when the heat was on insanity. Elmo's flip creates the illusion that TSO and insanity are unlikely to be his buddies.

It's beautiful, because I don't know if I believe it myself. TSO looked so Town, and my read on insanity keeps changing.

[Moonlight]

Moonlight, I was trying not to get into a debate back and forth with you. The game I posted has absolutely no relevancy towards this game, but scum wouldn't really be interested in knowing the truth. Just jumping on an easy wagon to pull off a lynch. My wagon on you was hellabad.... on purpose. Which is why I wouldn't address your points. I was waiting for Insanity to comment. If Insanity jumped on you, it'd confirm to me she was scum. If she jumped on me, there'd be a 50/50 chance she saw the terrible case and attributed it to a scum play, or that she's scum pushing for a lynch based on what others have said. What I did NOT account for, is her not coming back with a strong vote on either one of us. That kinda confirms her as town to me to be honest.

I'm not saying Moon is confirmed town, but Moon is town to me to a certain degree for the moment. You're response to my shit case was exactly what I'd expect from town. Scum Moon, as I saw last game, would have responded quite differently in my opinion. TSO/NotScience I find to be way too damn towny. TSO doesn't have that bold of a play style to push a counterwagon onto his own buddy if he was scum (in my opinion)... If he was doing that, this would be a game he'd be invested in, (as scum), and he wouldn't have replaced out. I hate using replacement strategy as tells, but when you've played with someone so much you kind of see it clearly.

So we have my town pile: insanity018 notscience moonlight
My hard to decipher pile: Not_Mafia
And my scum pile: hephaestus Malakittens

That's pretty much all I have left. And Heph's (well, Juls) avoidance of Elmo is honestly alerting. Because of the way the last phase was played, my vote I feel would be best served between Mala and Heph. Heph came on board here after replacing in and I noticed their messages. It was very soft, not too outspoken / offensive, almost coasting... as if testing out the waters. There wasn't really much oomph in it, and it didn't look like Heph was really pressing to find scum. Mala I can't help but feel like is coasting as well, contributing nothing. Their latest post to NotScience really pinged my radar. With a ongoing argument, it shocks me that the only contribution Mala can bring is asking NS is "his little buddy scum"?

I've spent the last few minutes sighing and trying to decide if this is genuine or manipulative of you. I want to believe you, because your reads make sense, and at the same time I can see this as a potential scum move too. >_>

It also kind of shocks me, nobody told me my case was shit and to look elsewhere.

Did anyone besides Insanity actually even read through it? (Another reason why I suspect Heph was the questions concerning my case... it didn't appear that Heph actually read the case.) I'm going to look back real quick and see if we have 1 or 2 scum left. I'm thinking 1 but I'd like to be sure. If it's 1, I'm going to have to decide between Heph and Mala. If two, I'll probably vote Heph for the pure fact of me feeling like I have more to go off of (scum-tells) with that slot.

The bold part is why I got vexed and asked for posts and passion. The apathy in this game is mind-numbing.

We're in a 5:2, and it's making me waffle. I'll toss the "insanity and notty" theory out the window for now.

VOTE: hephaestus

[Moonlight]

Birthy hapday to me.

I demand the following presents:

notty, catch up faster.

Mala, don't depend on notty, find someone else to share thoughts with. *shyly raises hand*

N_M, I see your V/LA but do something on this day.

Hephaestus, tell me who your buddy is.

neil and insanity, keep doing your thing.

[Moonlight]

hephaestus' fake hammer seemed pro-Town despite the bad execution. The claim was stupid, but what's done is done.

I don't know what to make of neil. He might be telling the truth, or he might be scum that backpedaled after he saw that his case wouldn't go anywhere.

VOTE: neil

This is L-1.

[Moonlight]

... I'm struggling to find words for this.

Have any of you ever wondered if you've gotten worse at this game or if the whole Town has gone insane or if the Mafia is having a great game?

That's where I'm at. =/

[Moonlight]

Seriously, 2 among 6 of you are scum and I don't have the faintest idea who they are or what neil's gonna flip.

[Moonlight]

Did my hammer really give you no clue as to my alignment?

The first thought I had was "Okay, N_M is obvscum". Second thought: "But wait, haven't I been in this place before? Haven't I been confident about something only to be disproven in the end and question my understanding of how the human mind works?".

Third thought: "For all I know, N_M may be honest. I know... nothing."

And after that, my mind examines all possibilities. Yes, all, as if we're in a multiverse where X and Y are scum and each separate universe is plausible.

I'm weird.

[Moonlight]

A lot of things are possible but why would I ever quickhammer like that as town?

Because for all I know you

could

have been bored and not cared.

See, your reaction test now screams Town to me. I had not even considered that the hammer may not count, yet the quick conclusion that you're scum also felt wrong.

I don't care if you don't "like" my reaction, but why do you think it means I'm scum? Or is that another reaction test?

[Moonlight]

The problem with this game is that I have reason to townread each and every one of you.

hephaestus has claimed without a CC.

insanity had a good chance to capitalize on neil going after me, but the caution she showed seemed towny. Being the counterwagon to Elmo is also in her favor.

Mala I've townread almost the whole game and I like how she keeps pestering notty.

notty I townread because of TSO.

neil tested me and claimed VT when he thought he was a goner. If he was scum, I'd have expected him to claim JK to out the real one.

N_M's test also looks Town as fuck.

[Moonlight]

@Moon Everyone but me thought the lynch had gone through. So why would someone CC in what they thought was twilight?

Who said anything about a CC?

Example: X is scum, fakeclaims a power role in twilight. Y, a VT, believes it and shows it with his next post. Now the Mafia know that Y's not that role.

I don't see any benefit in claiming VT as scum after a hammer.

[Moonlight]

I don't see any benefit of scum claiming a PR as in twilight as the real pr wouldn't be stupid to cC then.

No, but a VT could fall for it and show it, helping scum figure it out through PoE.

Ergo, claiming VT as scum when you think you're gone is unreasonable. It clears neil for me.

VOTE: Mala

Purely because of the Elmo vs insanity thing. I wish I had something better, but I don't.

[Moonlight]

@notty: Then point me to a better one. Every wagon looks bad from my point of view because I have no scumreads. >_<

@Mala: *sighs* No, it's not, but I forget that not everyone seeks to optimize their play. You're right, neil's not clear because I'm not in his head.

@N_M: Do you think neil realized he wasn't dead? I don't. Also, what I said to Mala.

[Moonlight]

If you check my first game on this site, scum fakeclaimed Tracker after getting lynched and trolled in twilight. It had purpose, an agenda, they killed the real Tracker next.

I have never seen scum troll without purpose, honestly.

[Moonlight]

Laugh at me if you'd like but, the paranoid conspiracy theorist in me says neil/Not_Mafia scum team and this whole thing was planned. Mostly because neil is still ringing alarm bells for me and you can notice him moving suspicion onto Moonlight as soon as Not_Mafia voted for him (Moon).

Well, you provided the counter argument to that in a previous post:

all scum have to do in this game is sit back and wait for town to get lynched

N_M could have done it for the towncred as scum, but he didn't need to exactly.

However, what you said about neil is better than what I've got on Mala. I've got to consider that he stopped trying his best once he thought he was dead.

VOTE: neil

L-1, again.

PEdit:

I change my meta with every game I play, on purpose. Specifically as scum too. Good luck trying to meta me.

Look through any of my 35 games on here, and tell me one fucking example of me "sheeping" as scum.

Does not compute. ?_?

[Moonlight]

You said you change your meta with every game you play. You cannot then ask someone to check your games for something particular.

[Moonlight]

If somebody doesn't do it in 35 games, why the FUCK would you assume they'd start now?

From the wiki:

Meta, short for metagame, is a term for the knowledge of how a player or moderator will act based on previous experience.

And you said you change yours every game. By definition, you have no meta.

Boy, I finally feel good about my vote!

[Moonlight]

I kind of want to think that someone with as many games as neil that can change their meta on the fly won't self-hammer as Town, but I'd risk my faith in humanity.

So instead, I'll do a Kirby dance, which I've never done before as either alignment. I can change my meta too!

[Moonlight]

Faith in humanity: gone.

[Moonlight]

*is nodding*

Someone who just self-hammered on accident and gave up on what is still anyone's game called someone pathetic and incompetent.

Am I dreaming this?

[Moonlight]

I want to believe that, notty. I'm leaning towards N_M and insanity but I'm scared of being wrong. =/

hephaestus is almost clear... TSO did things that make little sense as scum... it has to be N_M and insanity.

[Moonlight]

Well, all I can say is that "scum-me" wouldn't do some of the things I've done.

A good example is how I voted neil, then Mala, then neil again. Scum-me wouldn't dare to leave a wagon only to hop on it later.

[Moonlight]

Because I see that you and insanity think I'm scum. And frankly, I can't blame you considering how towny everyone looks to me. =/

Happy birthday to our mod, by the way.

[Moonlight]

*pokes notty and hephaestus*

Speak up. >_<

[Moonlight]

Moonlight, why do you think scum would do Not Mafia's fake hammer reaction test?

Towncred to win the game in LyLo.

Scum-me wouldn't dare to leave a wagon only to hop on it later.

Why not?

^Let me address that slightly differently.

I noticed that you had also hopped between Elmo, me, then Elmo again on Day 2. Why did you jump off so easily in 884? Why would the hopping back on later only come from town?

Let me put it this way: scum-me is very self-conscious about how he is being read. He doesn't like risky plays that draw the attention to him.

Town-me lacks self-awareness. He is the kind of guy that would shoot a fly with a rocket launcher and wouldn't give a single fuck about collateral damage.

[Moonlight]

Specifically for 884, Elmo's wagon didn't seem to gain traction, and I had no clue what to make of you. As soon as you shared your reads and Elmo didb't, I pushed for Elmo instead.

[Moonlight]

Does anyone here give a flying fuck about winning this? I don't feel like giving scum a free win. -_-

[Moonlight]

The feeling's mutual. It's also nerve-wracking because I'm waiting to see stuff that will help me make up my mind about each of you and it's not happening.

And if the mountain won't come to Muhammad, I use rocket launchers to destroy Muhammad and the mountain.

VOTE: N_M

It's my best guess right now. This should get things going one way or another. I do this knowing that if I'm wrong, scum can end it if they're both online.

[Moonlight]

I won't unvote, but I

will

move my vote if you make a decent case on why someone is scum and/or why you're Town, I promise.

I'm here to play Mafia, this LyLo is a snoozefest of nothing happening.

[Moonlight]

You trust that scum will believe that their buddy is going to read their minds and coordinate their votes? I don't.

Now explain your vote.

[Moonlight]

You also realize that if I was scum, I'd be depending on a Townie being an idiot, right? :p

[Moonlight]

To clarify, there's no way a Townie would sheep my baseless vote.

Why so threatened, N_M?

[Moonlight]

They

can

, I never said I expected them to simply do as I said. And if you're Town, they won't.

[Moonlight]

I'm gonna hit the hay soon, so before I forget:

UNVOTE:

Just in case N_M isn't scum and they make a good case against him while I snooze. His reaction should give me something to ponder on anyway.

[Moonlight]

Forgot: the reason N_M had nothing to worry about is because scum would need daychat to pull off two votes without risking me unvoting.

Also, I lied about not unvoting. Now watch me get policy lynched. *smirks*

[Moonlight]

^ Why did you unvote, then?

If we're going to assume that scum have a system to coordinate their votes, no one is ever going to vote.

[Moonlight]

How on earth was that a quickvote? I waited for days and no one was doing anything exactly because it's LyLo. -_- With hephaestus' claim, that leaves 3 people for me, 2 of which are scum.

Am I supposed to talk about the weather instead? Fine, it's sunny here and I hear cicadas.

[Moonlight]

I'm honestly telling you I'm not expecting scum to be able to coordinate the timing for the two votes that are required. You disagree and that's okay, I've just never seen it happen.

[Moonlight]

You weren't worried that scum could check the thread, saw you had voted, figured out their buddy was online due to posting in other games/co-ordination of time zones and then vote before you came back?

Or convince a townie who's around to vote?

Nope. It takes trust to do so. You

trust

that they are still online, that they haven't forgotten about this particular game. And we're not naturally inclined to trust that easily.

N_M's vote looks like an excuse to not scumhunt, which brings me back to:

VOTE: N_M

[Moonlight]

If N_M is Town, I want him to stop scumreading me due to not understanding my play. In my limited experience, many games are lost because people go "omg this guy is retarded, must be scum!".

Bad play != scummy play.

[Moonlight]

If it's TSO/notty and insanity, I wonder who they'll pick. >_>

[Moonlight]

But nah, N_M is probably scum. He suggested in 1170 alternate ways for me to scumhunt while he's not following his own advice. Where are the questions? The content? What happened to the re-reading in 1149?

If he's not scum, he's much lazier than I thought. =/

[Moonlight]

Moon basically scum claimed today. I will tomorrow for Insanity vs NS if we even get to that point.

Excuse me? I can't tell if you're misunderstanding me or doing this on purpose anymore. -_-

[Moonlight]

I'm thinking of voting notscience here as I really do not think it makes sense for Not Mafia and Moonlight to be scum together.

And here I was thinking if notty's last post was distancing from his buddy. notty's only contribution in this game was to discourage my Mala vote, and then she got killed and flipped JK. That made me paranoid that he's scum who figured her out, but I found nothing to base that on, so...

*sighs* This game.

[Moonlight]

^ I honestly forgot about the rolecop. >_> Never mind.

[Moonlight]

I don't know how I feel about that. From my perspective, only one of N_M/insanity/notty are Town, and TSO looked so good. His push on Elmo could have been bussing, but he had the option to go after insanity, and he didn't... maybe because insanity is also scum? But then her wanting to vote notty is unnecessarily risky.

*sighs again*

hephaestus, if we lynch right you're probably going to die in the night so do share your reads and thoughts before that, anything helps.

[Moonlight]

First game on this site: I looked obvtown to all. I never got a single vote.

Sixth game (this one): No one is really townreading me.

What the fuck happened to me in-between? ._.

[Moonlight]

I want at the very least to see notty's reads before anyone gets lynched.

Oh and...

Flavor: B)

[Moonlight]

As we wait for that, I want N_M to explain why he's making no effort on his case against me. In 1185, he said I scum-claimed. If that's true, why am I not lynched yet? Why isn't N_M pointing out that claim to everyone?

Either he's scum, or he has deluded himself into thinking that all he has to do as a Townie is to find scum, which is only half the work.

[Moonlight]

scum have no reason to vote anyone outside of 2 already voting in lylo

I'm sorry, but I find this naive. Are you saying that if insanity is scum with N_M (or me, for the sake of this argument) she wouldn't vote anyone but me (or N_M if I was scum with her)?

For all I know, she might be taking no sides in the N_M versus me argument for the kind of towncred you just gave her. =/

From my point of view, if insanity is Town then you and N_M can't be.

[Moonlight]

So N_M, what's up? You're the only one who thinks I can't be Town and yet you're doing nothing to convince the rest.

Nah, don't answer, just keep ignoring me, I'm the only one who sees your voteparking and "laziness" for what it is.

[Moonlight]

What's funny is that I can simply and honestly say "right back at you".

[Moonlight]

Nope, I'm saying that his posts don't help me make up my mind about him.

He went from clearing insanity to wanting to vote her and I don't know what to make of it.

[Moonlight]

We're more than halfway into the day and the only change in my reads has been that N_M is either scum or a lazy and deluded Townie.

Meanwhile, I think I'm having an epiphany of sorts; I'm suddenly aware that not only do I suck at this game, but everyone does. No one is good, some just suck less than others, and for one to be truly good they'd have to possess a deep understanding of human psychology as well as the ability to make psychological profiles through written form alone.

/end irrelevant rant

[Moonlight]

*sighs* If someone held a gun to my head and asked me to name scum, I'd say it's N_M and insanity.

So I'm probably the easiest mislynch in the game right now so get your votes off me.

Town reads (strongest --> weakest): TSO, Julatorium,

Not Mafia

, Riddleton/Neil

Null: Justin Playfair, xdfa (because of vig claim)

Scum is Elmo, {Moonlight/Mala}, ???

Elmo: Contradictory pushes at the beginning of Day 1, has not really posted any game-related thoughts since then.

I am confident that at least one scum is currently jumping on my wagon. One of Moonlight or Mala seems the most likely to me.

Moonlight: Opportunistic voting (including 884), odd predecessor behaviours

Mala: Erratic reads, particularly of Krystal Bald

I bolded N_M there. Why was he townread at that point? I look through N_M's ISO and I don't see anything particularly towny until that post.

Also, N_M seems to have completely forgotten that he was townreading me early. Would he like to re-examine my whole play and see for himself how it makes no sense for me to be scum?

[Moonlight]

@notty: I'm willing to take quite the leap of faith and accept that you're probably Town. If you're not ready to do so yourself, ask me anything, pick my brain apart and you'll see I'm Town too.

Took me a while, but I'm finally optimistic about this. N_M's reaction to my vote and, more importantly, notty's intent to vote screams "cornered scum" to me.

It all fits.

Pedit: The lack of a hammer means nothing to me. Scum-me is a fucking coward, you've yet to meet him. I step and even stomp on others' toes as Town. I'm smirking at "reveling", as I had no knowledge of what neil would flip, keep that up too.

[Moonlight]

So because you can't quickhammer as scum in LyLo, this means it's perfectly fine for town to capriciously vote in LyLo,

Yes.

even though the vast majority of players don't have the same problem that you do,

Oh I'm not the one with the problem. Apathy and I are mortal enemies and I try to destroy it every chance I get.

so no one should care about votes on them in LyLo? How does this make the slightest bit of sense?

It does in my head. Dunno, let's call me special.

[Moonlight]

I'm usually the kind of guy that blames himself to a fault. I have ridiculously harsh expectations from myself, and it's very rare for me to blame teammates for a loss.

This time though, I can't help it. I'm going to criticize some of you, as well as give credit where I believe it's due. I welcome everyone to criticize my play as well, I want to get better.

@notscience:

You managed to replace into a slot that looked Town as fuck and turn it into a huge question mark with your laziness. There is a reason I limit myself to 1 game at a time; if I did too many, I would become as dispassionate as you. Your naked vote on insanity disgusted me despite it being right. It was as if you had nothing to comment on, and I believe I gave you plenty of room to interact with me. What a waste of potential. The silver lining in this is that now I know I can be a good IC, because I cannot imagine doing worse than you.

@hephaestus:

I wish you were as fiery as your avatar. You were the only clear Townie in LyLo and you should have taken the initiative instead of me. I don't understand why you voted notty without even providing your reasoning. Weren't you aware he already had a vote? Did you not care? Or did you think you couldn't be wrong?

@N_M:

I cannot for the life of me understand how I was the only one scumreading you in LyLo. TSO himself was asking for your head before he replaced out, yet no one seemed to give a fuck. Our interaction had me sold you must be scum, so I don't know how you brainwashed the rest, but good job regardless!

@insanity:

You were awesome to play against and you faked Town uncertainty beautifully. If it wasn't for your early townread of N_M, I don't think I'd have become confident that you're scum with him. Kudos!

@neil:

You, sir, have become my prime example of something I've always believed very strongly: experience means nothing, and what one learns from it is not necessarily true. Enough said.

That's all that comes to mind, excuse my bitterness. >_>

[Moonlight]

*sighs* Sorry for being acidic, just... ugh...

Anyway, thanks to triton for hosting and for the awesome flavor, sorry for being a jerk, we could have won this. =/

[Moonlight]

There, there. Shit happens, we all mess up and all that.

Sorry for being harsh to you and notscience, I just had to vent. No grudges held, and I wish everyone many fun games to come.