Open 560: Tit for Tat (Game Over, 4/12 alive)
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Julatorium Townie
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Hello, this is Juls. This will likely be the only post I write the entire game for a few reasons but the main reason is we intend to be one head and my husband's head speaks much more eloquently than I do. We will be conversing probably more regularly than most hydras since we spend every waking-non-working hour together and even then we talk by phone at least 3-4 times and eat lunch together.
Also, we will be V/LA tomorrow returning some time Saturday afternoon. It's our 11 year wedding anniversary
With all that being said, I'm out.
P.S. Nikinor, I remember the name but refresh my memory on why. Also, who is your other hydra head?- Julatorium
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well godddddddoggy, i shure-ah hope ah's able t'live up t'mah ol' ladeeee's speckatashunsIn post 8, Julatorium wrote:and my husband's head speaks much more eloquently than I do.- Julatorium
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ditto mafblack
modbluetext on mafblack is migraineinducing- Julatorium
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OK, this is Juls. That is a serious and false allegation you are making T S O. Moratorium and Julatorium have never had admin access anywhere on site so, no, that didn't happen. All posts that we have made are still here. What post do you think has been deleted?- Julatorium
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Well thank you for wasting my time and being an ass hat (see, that's my eloquency). Now if you will excuse me it's my anniversary and I don't want to put up with useless drama from the likes of you.- Julatorium
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1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game. Null reaction to the question based on what we know of TSO, but happy we're out of RVS because of it.
Xfd, insanity, and Hgh came in post game-start and made no comments to the issue, infact appeared to wish to resurrect RVS. Why are you RVS'ing when stuff has happenned?
We also don't agree with the statement from KB that TSO's demeanor changed at all, or that a perceived change even matters, because he had his role when he made the accusation. It would be different if he didn't have his role, made this play pre-roles, and acted different once the game started. Trolls be trolling.
2) Flavor response
Our daughter is going to 3rd grade ACE classes next year, and the kids will have to vote on what subjects they are taught. This is a laughable exercise, because the choices are going to be like... Dinosaurs and Mythical Creatures, or Art and Music appreciation. The classes are inevitably chosen by how many boys and girls are in the class that year.
That said, We dissonantlychoose Abased on rock paper scissors (good ol' rock!).
3) Riddleton's newness: We thought the whole idea behind the Road to Rome wasn't to teach people how to play mafia, but to teach people how to play mafiahere. His lack of MS experience will inevitably (and has already) waste time. We strongly encourage him to join a newbie game.
Right now, we see him newbtelling more than town/scumtelling (like #74), but of the votes on him, we appreciate the Not_Mafia vote as the only real attempt to pressure with reasoning. We don't like HGH's vote because he fingers everyone who is contributing to the conversation, no reasoning, no contribution of his own.
Tammy, does Riddleton's being a new player change your reaction to him not voting in RVS?
Malakittens, same question?
HGH, what are the reasons for your list in #114?
vote: HGH7193- Julatorium
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Not trying to hurt your feelings, but calling a spade a spade. You may not be new to mafia, but you are new to the way mafia is done here. We've all been "new" at some point.- Julatorium
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Do you realize you have been auto-correcting the wordIn post 79, Malakittens wrote:We are totally no lynching thisday phrase. I'm totally just kidding. ;D
Anyways for real. No lynching does more harm than it does good. It gives information for town to use in the future.phasefor a year and a half? Search your posts site-wide for "day phrase"- Julatorium
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Did we join the right queue?In post 134, HGH7193 wrote:I made the list because I feel that there may be one mafia member in there or maybe two because if they post early they will not look suspicious....
Ok, so... following you here... if posting means scummy in your world, why did you not include Dot Matrix?- Julatorium
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Wasn't looking for an apology, nor a discussion to prompt one. We've stated that it's a null-tell. It's your nature, so we can't use it to read you.In post 138, T S O wrote:
Well, you can talk about it postgame, I guess - I have no intention of apologising for trolling, and although you seem to think it's outside "the spirit of the game"... I don't.In post 128, Julatorium wrote:1) To address the TSO post, we can talk about the "spirit of the game" nature of that play post-game.
Our quote wasn't about the content, or your vindication, it was about your nature. This is where you like to wallow. Therefore it can't be used.TSO wrote:
Judging from the overwhelming response vindicating me completely, it's blatantly obvious you don't know what you're talking about. Please quit flaunting your ignorance. Atta boy!In post 128, Julatorium wrote:Null reaction to the question based on what we know of TSO, but happy we're out of RVS because of it.
That's right, and the statement is one regarding KB's views, not yours. Your reaction seems disproportionate to us. I thought you had some measure of pride in your trolling efforts?TSO wrote:
Wow, lots of words, but no read at all! Trolling =/= scum.In post 128, Julatorium wrote:We also don't agree with the statement from KB that TSO's demeanor changed at all, or that a perceived change even matters, because he had his role when he made the accusation. It would be different if he didn't have his role, made this play pre-roles, and acted different once the game started. Trolls be trolling.
She is. We're proud parents.TSO wrote:
Yes, yes, you're very smart.In post 128, Julatorium wrote:2) Flavor response
Our daughter is going to 3rd grade ACE classes next year, and the kids will have to vote on what subjects they are taught. This is a laughable exercise, because the choices are going to be like... Dinosaurs and Mythical Creatures, or Art and Music appreciation. The classes are inevitably chosen by how many boys and girls are in the class that year.
That said, We dissonantlychoose Abased on rock paper scissors (good ol' rock!).- Julatorium
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What is scummy about posting and replying to each other? Can you use more words to explain why you produced this list, and how you forgot how you put two people on this list less than 24 hours ago?HGH wrote:I put the two people on top because they were posting a lot and they were also replying to each other a lot the last two I don't know why I put them there.
We would bet money that one or both of Malakittens and Tammy are scum. /gutMalakittens and Tammy wrote: words and drama
We're not criticizing those three for having a null reaction, we're criticizing them for having no reaction and instead RVS'ing. Everyone should have weighed in with their thoughts on the pregame shenanigans, even if their thoughts were "I don't know". RVS'ing is safe.Playfair wrote: This bothers me a little bit because first you say that TSO's actions only warrant a null reaction but then you criticize Xfd, Insanity, and Hgh for not addressing it? Can you elaborate on this position for me?
First, we aren't asking Mala and Tammy to reconsider their reads, but we expected Riddle's obvious newbness to give them pause. If they pushed without entertaining the idea that he could be newbtown, then they are just tunneling an easy target (if he's town). Second, we see Riddleton as countering Mafiascum-meta. (No lynch D1. No RVS without more information. "If I was mafia, I'd do this other thing I'm not doing.") Typical Newbie-game plays that are not indicative of alignment. Whereas HGH, on the other hand, posted a list of people he would like to chain-lynch without any reasoning. We want more information.Playfair wrote: You excuse Riddle's behavior as a byproduct of his inexperience, even going so far as to prod Mala and Tammy to reconsider their positions on him, but in the same post you lay a vote down on hgh, whose history (if he is not an alt) would indicate a rather pronounced lack of experience. Could you explain what you find different between the two of them?- Julatorium
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Consider it a figure of speech.In post 177, Malakittens wrote:
No, there's a good chance Tammy was town. I am town, so there's that. Secondly, no bets are allowed.In post 176, Julatorium wrote:Malakittens and Tammy wrote:
words and drama
We would bet money that one or both of Malakittens and Tammy are scum. /gut- Julatorium
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The latter two show thought.Playfair wrote:Can you explain how an rvs is safer than posting "I don't know" or having the null reaction you claimed?
Identifying the vote as a pressure vote rather defeats the purpose, we would have expected you to parse the meaning without stating it explicitly.Playfair wrote:So then are you characterizing your vote on hgh as a pressure vote placed in order to illicit this information or are you currently reading hgh as scum?
We still want him to speak and explain what he is doing.- Julatorium
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And ours is the opposite, both "I don't know" and null reaction display a willingness to define your stance, therefore the need to acknowledge your stance to yourself. RVS precludes stance definition.In post 196, Justin Playfair wrote:I guess I have to disagree that either "I don't know" or the claim of a "null reaction" shows thought. My belief is that either of those demonstrate rather directly the absence of thought, or conversely a defensive desire to comment on a given situation without drawing undue attention.
So far, there has been no answer, he appears to have vanished.Playfair wrote:To your second point: Not at all. The purpose of a pressure vote is to illicit an answer. If the answer is not given or if the answer given is incriminating the pressure vote may progress naturally to being a vote in earnest. If you truly believe otherwise I would have expected you in this instance to have answered that your vote was serious based on hgh's action but that you would like to hear his explanation. I also find it rather odd that you would expect me to act in concert with your agenda instead of pursuing my own when I have, as yet, no indication that you are town.
As for acting in concert, what I'm expecting is a conversation with him, but instead I'm apparently dealing with this seemingly proxy obstruction. So be it.- Julatorium
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Spoiler:
So you're a waller. That's awesome. Your questions are generally irrelevant, and you are distracting. Engaging you is zero fun. We think you are town.
Town who is coaching.In post 203, Justin Playfair wrote:
You're a dentist who is going to get himself lynched. If you're town you should try to keep that from happening.In post 200, HGH7193 wrote:I dig out tiny caves, and store gold and silver in them.
I also build bridges of silver and make crowns of gold.
They are the smallest you could imagine.
Sooner or later everybody needs my help, yet many people are afraid to let me help them. Who am I?
Town who doesn't vote.In post 206, Justin Playfair wrote:
Would tend to agree with you here as well. The question is whether it might be just a horrible case of confirmation bias, in favor of Mala and against TSO, based on personal likes and dislikes.In post 204, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Krystal is playing bad scum. Or just a horrible player not sure which yet- Julatorium
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You don't understand that he's asking for what we have to work with so far?xfdagentx42 wrote:Anyway, wake's post didnt sound really nice. Dont understand it.- Julatorium
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/out of game for a moment
This is Juls.
@TSO - I want to apologize for calling you an asshat. It was inappropriate and I have a quicker temper than my counterpart. I am the one who said we can have a "spirit of the game" conversation after the game. I meant we could have a discussion/debate about it because it is sort of a grey area. I did not intend to insinuate that you did anything wrong but I think talking about it now is a theory discussion not a game discussion. We got off on the wrong foot and I don't want this whole game to be you attacking us because you don't like me. If it's going to be that I would just rather replace out because I'm just not going to enjoy the game. So hopefully from this point forward we can have a civil discourse throughout the game.
/back to the game- Julatorium
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TSO was misunderstanding what we were saying somewhat, and responding emotionally. He was responding to perceived attacks that weren't necessarily there, but we actually think that makes him more town. It doesn't read as manufactured.
You, on the other hand, are not catching our sarcasm. You appear to want hgh to defend himself, and coached him as to why. Your questions (RVS vs. null, pressurevote vs. scumread) are probes on our state of mind, but then you are just refuting our state of mind (poppycock) even though it's perfectly sound. Voting someone for having a townread is just... odd, but we'll assume you are voting for the lack of explanation, which also seems a stretch in this fluff game with half the players saying very little. Why is our earlier lack of town explanation different than, say, TSO's #257? Or KB's various #238 reads?
We're still waiting on HGH to explain what he is doing. His withdrawal says more than his posts do.- Julatorium
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#247 is not calling you town. We are not town reading you. You are not being read as town. Usted no está siendo leído como ciudad. Vous ne semblez pas être un villageois.
We apologize for calling your posts irrelevant.- Julatorium
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OK, so from this point forward, post 8 should be disregarded. This is Juls. I have some rather strong opinions about hydras and I wanted us to present ourselves as a single entity. Here's the problem: hydraing is hard. Moratorium and I have very different playstyles and add on top of that the fact that we are married (i.e., we will tell each other like it is forgoing the pleasantries) has made for what you see in this thread. A hydra trying to be something it's not. I wanted Moratorium to be the sole poster with me supplementing with my reads. Except what it is turning into is Moratorium saying a mish-mash of our thoughts in his words and something is getting lost in translation. So, we are flipping this thing on its head and going to try it the other way. I am going to post and he is going to give me thoughts. He is welcome to come in at any time and post though. We probably still won't sign but you will likely know who is who.
So this is where we are:
Town:
T S O- The interactions with us pre-game seemed to come from a townie place.
Not_Mafia- I have been primarily reading him as town. Moratorium is indifferent. Post 50 is in line with our thoughts regarding T S O. Post 75 reads as a properly placed pressure vote. Also, his post 272 shows a town thought process.
Riddleton- We have already discussed this but he is pretty much newb-telling hard. It's not us trying to be insulting, it's just how we are reading it. Attempting to buck site meta just comes off as newb-town to us.
Null:
Justin Playfair- We are not calling him town, we are not calling him scum. There is no passive agression here. His post 175 was very townie to us but we didn't like the coaching in post 203 or his nitpicking of everything we are saying. The latter we are trying to determine if we think that is scum-motivated or town-motivated. The long and short of it is that we just aren't comfortable with him yet.
Krystal Bald- I was leaning town early but some things have seemed to be buddying like here and here but we aren't ready to make an alignment call just yet.
Wake88- At first we thought Tammy/Mala could be scum together because the argument felt manufactured. But the fact that Tammy replaced out (i.e., followed through with the threat) makes us think she just didn't want to play without SKrew and did manufacture the argument but just for different reasons than we initially thought.
xfdagentx42- Honestly, I had to look this person up to remember anything about them. That is how unmemorable this slot has been. The only thing of note is the random vote. Otherwise, this slot is completely unremarkable.
Scum:
Malakittens- Her play is completely off to us. Both of us have played recent games with her, she was town in both of them. Her reaction testing of Tammy feels contrived. The fact that she has explicitly referred to herself as "town" here, here, and here is also coming off as odd/unnatural.
Elmo TeH AzN- We feel like his vote on us looks like an attempt to grab onto Justin and T S O's agressive playstyles toward us and says nothing about our alignment while calling us scum. Why do we have "no idea" of what is going on? What cases are bad? How are either alignment indicative?
insanity018- Read her ISO, this is just fluffity fluff fluff with some questions sprinkled in. Moratorium describes it as "inoffensive beige questions that will quickly be forgotten" and I think that pretty much sums it up perfectly.
HGH7193- HGH is a difficult read for us. We hated the list and his responses to our questioning about the list. And he hasn't done anything that seems town at all. We have struggled with if we should remove our vote or not since he now just seems to be trolling. Our vote was indeed for pressure but it's not working and we have developed more reads but then he hasn't really answered us so....we don't know what to do here. We could really use some help from town in figuring this guy out.
With all that being said....
VOTE: Malakittens- Julatorium
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Flavor:Car B (a canteen of water, a flare gun, and a book on counting cards)- Julatorium
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You are hard-buddying Krystal Bald on a null read? really? And stuff that happened pregame is relevant since we all had our roles in pregame.Malakittens wrote:To be fair the Krystal Bald read is kinda weak. You are going off "pregame" things to give them a null read, since, then they have posted things that are town. Town because while me ignoring that this is my second game with Nik that I have played with and have hydra'd with Krystal (Mantis) to a point that I believe I can point out her scum-play from her town-play. With that, I'm confident to say that Krystal is my strongest town read.
What does any of that have to do with your play this game? You have made a point over and over to say explicitly you are town. It comes off as forced and unnatural.Malakittens wrote:Obv, you are forgetting in the newbie queue I play absolutely different than I do outside of any game on site and within the micro. I had a decently familiarity w/ half of the players in that game also not to mention my hydra partner and I share a special bond that can not be broken. If you take all those factors into play you can see why my play between these three games are different and has nothing to do w/ any possible alignment speculation on your part.
The difference is 1) Tammy didn't "reaction test" you and 2) I didn't really care for that either at the time thus why we said one or both of you were scum. The fact that she followed through and quit the game makes me think she just didn't want to play the game without SKrew.Malakittens wrote:Yet, Tammy did the same exact frisking thing through pregame and even during my 'argument' with her yet you are ignoring that.
They are only in order as far as what column they are in.Malakittens wrote:Also, I'm going to guess your scum reads/reads in general aren't in any type of strength, right?
We had our roles pregame. Everything from the moment we could post is relevant.Elmo wrote:What I can't stand is this "Pregame talk" Its pregame does it mean anything and can it be taken at face value? Personally I don't see why you would as anything can be said at that moment to sway opinions.
There you go again applying a label ("crap") to our post without any commentary to back it up other than you are in the scum column. The problem with you is you appear to have "little dog syndrome". You are TRYING to sound aggressive and come off like you are on the attack but it's missing the mark because you don't have the reasoning to back it up. Compare that to T S O's aggression which comes off as genuine.Elmo wrote:What really bothers me about Jules is her list. Its crap. Am I surprised I am picked as scum with them. Not at all if you ever read any of my games Im always on a scum list.
We didn't notice any unnatural proclamations of town in our previous games with her. Townie is townie by actions, not by self-proclamation.Elmo wrote:And as for the bad cases Jules Why wouldn't someone like Mala refer to themselves as town? This is just bad case work once again. Yes because the scum are going to come out and say HEY IM SCUM VOTE ME OUT OF THIS GAME RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IM DOING A TERRIBLE JOB!!! I think not.
Wait, I thought our list was "crap", why are you now saying that information is good? Is it maybe because now two people have mentioned/shown interest in insanity? Which is it Elmo? Are our cases good or bad?Elmo wrote:So my question to you Jules is why not vote Insanity then? Wouldn't you think a pressure vote would be better then placing what you could look at as an easy vote?- Julatorium
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Last we checked, conversation in a game is a good thing. Again, all this says is "your cases are shit" (which cases?) "you looked at someone's iso, anyone can do that", and "you didn't vote insanity". I see nothing in these bit of words you threw together that says "Julatorium is scum because....". You ask what I have to back up my case...I have posts! Lots of posts I reference. See if you click those words that are underlined, they go to other posts and those posts are the ones that are my evidence of my cases.In post 288, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:So your telling me that I could have said in my first post WOO I'm town and it would have been relevant pregame. Obviously not therefore I say Pregame means absolutely shit. It shows nothing aside you getting your panties in a wad and then saying sorry later. Or did I obviously misread that somewhere along the lines? And beside that why is it relevant? Please enlighten me. Because I see nothing relevant before the first "Official post" Where you can do what you want and vote then.
First and foremost what information have I said was good? Congrats you posted a list and made some waves in this game among all the fluff posting you did. Lets face the facts when you post a list people talk. That's what happens Its not hard. And your cases are still complete shit. Lets put it that way. And Jesus its not hard to look at someones ISO and realize there was nothing there. Moreso what you did was prove Insanity is lurking and boom! Hell I figured I could do something you seem to be unable to do. Not fluff post the shit out of this game and what have you. Sitting here with your vote where it is isn't doing much just proving nothing more useful then not voting.
Oh look someone can read into a Meta. WIth unnatural proclamations. Why not do a meta search on everyone else in this game then? But obviously her self proclamations had something to do with it I'm also assuming or am I just a crazy person.
What's there to back up with your case? You posted a list. It doesn't make you look any more town to me and all it does it get people to talk about reads and look who shows up. Half the town that actually is here doesn't help when you have lurker city up in here.
If you want town credit for the list. Look elsewhere you're not getting it here. And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.
That quote deserves its on block. See, you didn't vote us, in fact you unvoted us. Why, if we are such crappity crap scummy scum scums did you unvote us? You're a funny little monster Elmo.Elmo wrote:And what would being aggressive be moving my vote to you to prove your point? All that would show is something later down the line for people to do a VCA if anything to see if there was a pattern.
Well meta me (Juls) then cause I post a town/null/scum list in just about every single game I play in. Scum, Town, whatever. Come up with new ways to say crap though next time you post...k?In post 289, Elmo TeH AzN wrote: TL;DR on my last post: Jules is scum grasping for towncred with the list- Julatorium
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own*In post 291, Julatorium wrote:That quote deserves its on block- Julatorium
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First, UNVOTE: Malakittens. We feel the act of her watching/noticing that KB was online and not posting could be town and want to move our vote appropriately.
We looked into Elmo's assertion that he always gets voted or is on a scum list and found him to be telling the truth. Look in the spoiler for the raw data. This appears to be focused mostly on day one so it is our expectation that he becomes more townie as the game goes on. It's interesting to note that his only scum game since January 2013 was the only game in which he wasn't voted on Day 1. This was a shallow dive so results may not be completely 100% perfect but it is enough for us.
Spoiler: Elmo's Game History / Meta
However, 306 and 312 looks like a double bus and the interactions between Elmo and insanity are setting off our scumdar(s). Given that we want to give Elmo at least a day to "become more townie", we want to vote insanity who has become our strongest scum read. As we said in 273 her questions are very vanilla and inoffensive which comes off as trying to appear to be scum hunting while not drawing any attention.
VOTE: insanity
Our mala read has been improved somewhat and our Elmo read is unchanged and contingent on a insanity flip. We worry that HGH is going to slip through the cracks and would prefer a replacement to get a better read on the slot.
Mod: Please prod Justin Playfair- Julatorium
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Forgot to ask about this. KB, you are going to have to explain your town read on insanity and Elmo cause....we....don't....get....it.In post 323, Krystal Bald wrote:Mala, Wake, TSO, Juls and probably insanity and Elmo as well are town.
xfda and N_M are still scum together, probably with Justin, but it could be with Riddleton as well.
No read on HGH for obvious reasons but it looks like he's getting replaced anyway so yay for that.- Julatorium
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So now you want lists? I thought you said anyone can make a list? If anyone can make a list why are you encouraging the making of lists? Please list your stances on the use of lists because:In post 360, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:
He can't because real life.In post 359, insanity018 wrote:I'm a she tyvm.
xfda, you are clearly active enough to constantly make posts about your inactivity. Who do you think is town/scum?
I can buy that but at the same time just make a list or something stalling helps no one and pushes for you to get replaced or lynched
1. You don't like lists
2. You want lists
3. You like contradicting yourself about lists- Julatorium
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The purpose of the switch was due to the fact that we were not clearly communicating our thoughts and needed to change. We were even having internal conversations about how we weren't expressing ourselves the way we intended or saying the right words to express our stance. I could go into a little more detail about the 'why' of it if you like but I don't know if it really matters. We are not trying to disengage without resolution with you. We stated our opinion as clearly as possible. If you would like to engage further about it, then please ask your questions and we will answer.In post 366, Justin Playfair wrote:Julatorium's list post bothers me a lot because it is an absolutely defensive maneuver. If you read the list you will see that the actual opinions expressed are more or less in line with Julatorium's previous assessments. The only real difference is that a kinder, friendlier voice is expressing them. And the new definition offered for Julatorium's opinion on me, which is what apparently inspired this change, reads as a pretty obvious offer to disengage without resolution. That sort of thing almost always gives me the willies. The list itself doesn't bother me, though, and I rather like Julatorium's responses to Mala and Elmo. The problem with that, though, is that instead of following up on either of these Julatorium then soft clears both of them (admittedly Elmo for just a day but Julatorium then follows Elmo's taunt and votes Insanity) and focuses on Insanity instead. And the Insanity read seems both weak and a little opportunistic. I'm okay with my vote where it is.
We have also not soft cleared anyone. We want to do more research on mala as most of our read of her is at a gut level. It's hard to push a case you can't quantify. Moratorium has more experience with Mala and feels she plays the game at a surface level (i.e, her cases aren't deep/complicated). We have intentions to meta some scum games of hers butMoratoriumwe haven't got around to it yet. We want to specifically look at her ability to manipulate. As for Elmo, Moratorium feels he is more scummy than insanity but insanity's ISO just drips new-scum to me. If insanity does get lynched and flips scum I doubt we would ever remove our vote from Elmo because their "bickering" really reads as bussing.- Julatorium
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This quote made our combined heads explode. First off, the first two sentences are contradictory. How can you like a post and then call it opportunistic? Also, which post are you talking about? Justin Playfair's 366 or our 367? We assume you are talking about us when you say we are playing scared but we have no idea what you are talking about. What are we scared of? How are we playing scared?Elmo 368 wrote:I like this post a lot. It is opportuinistic. Why not go after someone else? And they didn't put there vote there which means they are playing scared. I don't see why a town would play scared about something like that. It doesn't add up at least for me. But I came along and pissed insanity off and look what happens. SHE POSTS THINGS! Granted it was crap posting like the rest of this game but what can you do about it.
We don't have any clue what you are talking about. You want people to post. Should we assume that you don't want us to post? Every post we make you seem to say we are trying to get towncred or "save face" (whatever the fuck that means). What would you like us to do exactly?Elmo 368 wrote:IE: We're a hydra who knows nothing about this game and we're going to try and save face with the posts from the rest of the game.
Didn't we tell you to come up with a more creative way of saying crap? If this is it then we are very disappointed.Elmo 368 wrote:Im calling Bull. Nice way to try to save face
We just put our heads back together and they exploded again. What does this even mean? What "call for OMGUS". What do you mean "nothing happens" when you yell at us? And YES you are misreading...big time. We are saying that if insanity is scum then there is a very high likely hood that you are her partner and you are double-bussing each other.Elmo 368...still wrote:For future reference. Note the call for an OMGUS. But lets me put it in another way. I bitch at someone for inactivity and why I voted them and instantly it sounds like I bus. Yet I go on yell at you for dumber things and nothing happens? So what you seem to be saying is "oh there's no way we're scum together" Or am i misreading this here? Not only that do you already see how someone is lining up a lynch already based on a flip that is TBD. Let's think about this. Jules pushes for an insanity lynch. Flips scum and instantly heads to me. Almost asking for a short day 2 and heading into D3 with 4 people dead heading into a MYLO or to buy time to a D4 where then it becomes MYLO or LYLO if it gets that far. If Im wrong on the days so be it. My head hurts from work today.
Let's break down the rest of your crazy talk shall we?
Yep, that is exactly what we are doing. If insanity flips scum our vote will be parked on you until the end of time. Guilty as charged.Crazy talking Elmo wrote:Not only that do you already see how someone is lining up a lynch already based on a flip that is TBD.
OK, stay with me here...If insanity flips scum (and it sounds like you already know she will), going into day 2 we will be down 1 town (maybe) and 1 scum. Then we lynch you. Let's pretend for a brief second that you are town (highly unlikely if insanity is scum). Then we will have one mislynch and at most 3 dead townies going into day 3 setting up a 6 vs 2. That's not MYLO. It would only be "MYLO" for scum if both of you were scum (7 vs 1). Elmo did you just scum-slip?Jules pushes for an insanity lynch. Flips scum and instantly heads to me. Almost asking for a short day 2 and heading into D3 with 4 people dead heading into a MYLO or to buy time to a D4 where then it becomes MYLO or LYLO if it gets that far. If Im wrong on the days so be it. My head hurts from work today.- Julatorium
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In post 247 my dear husband failed miserably at sarcasm. I (Juls) admit that I didn't even understand it and he had to explain it to me like 3 times before I got it. The first part where he says "We think you are town." was referring to the spoiler. We both read that post as town even though it was a bit nit picky (thus the "irrelevant" comment) and larger-than-our-liking (yes we are hypocrites). The other two comments were meant to show our struggle in reading you because, as town as that wall felt, we saw you "coaching" and "not voting". The post was meant to display our struggle in reading you but it missed the mark essentially.In post 369, Justin Playfair wrote:That's irrelevant questions to you, thank you very much.
Actually, I rather like your answer. If you'd be so kind as to tell me what your intended purpose was for #247 I might even be willing to promise not to use the word irrelevant in this thread again.- Julatorium
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@Malakittens - are you planning on night killing us and just decided to leave us out of your reads list?- Julatorium
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We have absolutely zero interest in lynching Not_Mafia today. We are only on board for an Elmo or insanity lynch right now.- Julatorium
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Why sayIn post 382, insanity018 wrote:If insanity does get lynched and flips town, would you still vote for Elmo?ifinstead ofwhen?
Ifthat happens, we would have to look at him with that knowledge. He has certainly been independently scummy but it wouldn't be a guarantee like it isifyou flip town.- Julatorium
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We don't get the case on Not_Mafia. Can someone explain with lots of words and evidence? Also, we still want an insanity lynch the most.
P-edit: So KB, xfd soft-claims a power role and you choose to lynch?- Julatorium
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Mala do this now.In post 412, Julatorium wrote:We don't get the case on Not_Mafia. Can someone explain with lots of words and evidence?
Also, xfd hasn't really been all that scummy. Certainly shouldn't have been forced to claim. Lurky yes, but we find insanity's active vanilla questioning much more scum-telling. We have Not_Mafia as one of our town reads so the fact that some of you are pushing him as the premier lynch is really concerning to us. Also, KB just moved into the leaning-scum category with that vote-after-soft-claim and the unvote-after-claim. They already softed a power role, you know what the power roles are. You wanted them to full claim and it appeared your intentions were to lynch regardless. But then you unvote?- Julatorium
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So it is retarded to lynch this person as if it is a fake claim the REAL vig will just shoot them.- Julatorium
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So many scummy people too few slots for scum....Moonlights post just reads like someone who saw that xfd was run up and wanted to hop on the bandwagon.- Julatorium
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OK, I just read xfd's ISO and looked at his/her games played. They have only played this game and their newbie. All the talk about voting them for inactivity is just newbness. That was a pretty scummy wagon.
{TSO Riddleton Malakittens, KB, Wake} All people who voted for xfd....you know who isn't in there? Elmo and insanity. Which is pissing me off because I am confused now.- Julatorium
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This would be the point where you unvote.In post 442, Moonlight wrote:Fair enough. >_> I wish I had more confidence in other scumreads. NM's play seems different to the one game I've played with him where he was Town, so I wouldn't oppose that wagon. HGH is also doing nothing while all this is going on, so a wagon on either of these two is fine by me.- Julatorium
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You seem very concerned about the way you "appear" to town. Unvoting is the logical thing to do. This game does not require you to have a vote on someone at all times.In post 445, Moonlight wrote:I don't like unvoting without going after someone in particular and I'm trying to make up my mind. I'm getting confident in my townreads of TSO, Riddle, you and Mala. But other than agent, I have no scumread I'm confident about, and any vote I place would be an obvious pressure vote. >_<- Julatorium
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There is one. They are just a roleblocker as well.In post 426, Riddleton wrote:Shame there's no doctor in this game >_<- Julatorium
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@TSO - have you read HGH's one other game on site? I get the impression he doesn't know how to play mafia at all. I think this is also a weak player and he needs to be replaced, not lynched.
Mod: please replace HGH- Julatorium
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Tammy's not in the game anymore, she was replaced by Wake who was replaced by Moonlight.
Since you didn't ask us, we think that your first post was absolutely fine and the posts to the contrary are ridiculous.- Julatorium
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Maruchan, we agree. Why would you announce it if you were trying to get town-cred for it?
We are now on board for lynching in this order {Malakittens, Moonlight, insanity, Elmo, KB}.
Malakittens because we have just done some analysis of her to back up our suspicions which is that she is doing a lot of vote-hopping/calling people scummy. The only players she hasn't called scummy are us, KB, TSO, and Elmo. We feel like she has done some hard-buddying of KB (see the masons conversation and the white-knighting of our null read on KB). Also, in rereading her we noticed she didn't say anything about Not_Mafia except that she didn't understand someone's town read on him up to the point she voted him (and still didn't say anything about him until we asked her). After we made her describe her case, she quickly switched gears and backed off her scum-read of Not_Mafia.
Moonlight for his terrible terrible terrible push on xfd both before and after the claim. This is also the reason KB is on the list.
We have already stated our suspicions on insanity and Elmo ad nauseum but I'm worrying now about this read in light of recent events.
Spoiler: Malakittens calling the world scum
VOTE: Malakittens- Julatorium
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Yes, but we find just about every reason you have voted to be bad reasoning and/or opportunisticIn post 514, Malakittens wrote:Yes because reads can't change due to new information. I vote for reactions, I vote for pressure, I vote because I think someone is scum. That's playing the game.
Riddle - Voted him because he didn't want to RVS
Tammy - Voted for "reaction test". We never understood what reaction you wanted or were looking for.
xfd - Voted for newb-posting.
Not_Mafia - voted for no reason at all
xfd again - voted for being "activish"
Not_Mafia again - still no reason (later explained as getting "nothing" from him)
insanity - voted for because of process of elimination despite mentioning her alot in your posts
maruchan - for Amished tell that isn't even there. A tell you know for a fact he is aware of (as he mentioned)
Hmmm...also just noticed when preparing this that you have mentioned insanity as scum in 9 posts but only had a vote on her for less than 24 hours during the day.Strong association to insanity found.
Oh, please don't confuse us. We think your play is scummy as fuck. Your initial post reads as someone who saw a wagon on xfd and was intent on voting them before reading a single word. This to us look like scum manufacturing a case to hop on an easy wagon. We see no town motivation whatsoever to do that.In post 516, Moonlight wrote: It's one thing to dislike my play, and another thing to find it scummy. The first one, I can understand. The second one? Not so much.
Hey, instead of showing us this other game where you were town, how aboutIn post 519, insanity018 wrote:I now have a completed town game for all you meta people.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48518
Mini 1570. I was lynched on Day 1 as a vanilla townie.actingbeing town in this game?
We think you are town, but we think you are only sheeping other people and aren't independently looking for scum. If you are town (and especially a vigilante), you need to do a better job. As it is, we aren't very confident in you making choices about who to shoot. Nor do we want to direct your shot because scum may keep you alive if town directs you to shoot another townie. All I will say is do not shoot within this block {Julatorium, Justin, T S O, Not_Mafia, Riddle, xfd} everyone else you can shoot.In post 529, xfdagentx42 wrote:Well lately, its like the trio is complete for me...- Julatorium
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Narrowing the pool is not saying "kill this person". We believe that at least 2 scum, possibly all 3 exist in the left over pool.Malakittens wrote:Also love how you say we aren't gonna direct your vig shot to Xdfa yet in a way you did because you narrowed the list down so much.- Julatorium
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We don't have two votes or we would be voting you. And stay tuned...our vote may be there before days over.- Julatorium
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We get it. You don't like us. Are you voting us because we are a hydra? Because that's pretty dumb. Make the case on us other than "they are crap", "they want towncred", "grrr...lists", and "they are saving face". Cause none of that makes any sense. We aren't getting lynched today so you need to put your vote somewhere else. And if you are soft claiming vig and you shoot us then you are retarded.In post 542, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:I hate hydras. On another note I hate my job and the vig being uncced means nothing because yeah I'll explain later- Julatorium
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This has been your biggest town read all game. Please explain this vote.
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It's mala and insanity and <?>.In post 594, insanity018 wrote:Hmm, I quite like Maruchan's catchup post and don't think that we should lynch him today.
I doubt Krystal Bald and Mala are both scum. I think KB is more likely due to the timing of their vote and then unvote on xdfa.
VOTE: Krystal Bald
That is all.- Julatorium
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Oh my God! You have broke the whole game open. Everybody quick vote us because holy shit we didn't say KB was scum because he called agent scum. Damnit if you hadn't joined the game we would have got away with it. Sorry scum mates, we failed you.
P-edit: oh man we failed so hard- Julatorium
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Nothing changed between this post and 600 except we keep seeing associations between insanity and malaIn post 513, Julatorium wrote: We are now on board for lynching in this order {Malakittens, Moonlight, insanity, Elmo, KB}.- Julatorium
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VOTE: insanity please lynch this over KB at least. Mala has been calling KB town all game and suddenly she switches to "reaction test" and everyone sheeps her. Mala is super scummy but we will take her partner at the very least. I believe we have been way more townie than Mala and if you want to sheep someone sheep us. We think KB has done some scummy stuff but not near as much as insanity/Mala and lynching insanity helps steer our reads on both Elmo and Mala.- Julatorium
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Mala is doing one of three things, none of them are good
1) she is a town PR trying not to get vigged. This is dumb because scum are likely smart enough to figure that out.
2) she is scum preparing to fake claim
3) she is town vanilla trying to draw the nightkill by crumbling jail keeper. This is a little better but still bad cause if a real jail keeper were worried about getting vigged they would just jail the vig.
So, we would prefer you stop beating around the bush and just claim.- Julatorium
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Then don't direct her fucking shot. See, I can curse too.- Julatorium
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This. This is our major problem with what she is doing. We also think she is scum. We debated calling it out but if she is town then scum knows exactly what she is doing.In post 620, Justin Playfair wrote:But by posting what you did you reveal an absolute lack of concern at anyone else in town being shot. That isn't working with the vig to select a good target. It is trying to guarantee your personal survival.- Julatorium
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Do you have a fucking argument to make that we are scummy or are you just nitpicking what we say because you are butt hurt that we think you are scummy? Don't pussy foot around it. Cause all you are doing right now is pointing shit out that doesn't matter. Making a passing comment like "oh God don't shoot me because I voted you" and explicitly stating that someone must confirm that they will not shoot them are completely different things.
Justin, the vig should NOT out their target because if they choose a townie then the scum will leave the vig alone. If they claim scum then they will shoot the vig. Plus, the jail keeper may or may not protect/block the vig tonight.- Julatorium
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So you are saying that you are wasting everyone's time then. noted. - Julatorium
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