The Wire Season 1 Mafia: Baltimore Police and Omar Victory!

[Xisiqomelir]

Salamence's game-ruining skills are unparalleled.

VOTE: Muki

@Muki

:

I think Messiah Complex is scum.

(Just closed my eyes and pointed at the screen..)

Sala defending himself way too much

, but who wouldn't at this point? He did role claim after the 'slip' so I'm not too sure I trust his arguments.

How much defence is "way too much" defence?

[Xisiqomelir]

In regards to Boo, I feel actually Sala's claim post was quite believable he wrote it too well so her change in opinion is fine. If I had to guess her alignment it would be town but she is still middle of the roadish.

I would like to have a firmer opinion on this subject myself, since that wagon is about all we have of substance from the 12-hour D1.

@Bookitty

: Can you provide the last two games you played with Salamence where you were scum and he was town? What is his basis for claiming the bolded:

There is no way in hell Boo would go call my play a gambit and then vote me if she knew it was a gambit. Shes obviously playing for towncred tomorrow.

Boo as town would have just shut it and defended me to the end, thats how special we are together <3

. Shes scum.

[Xisiqomelir]

@Bookitty

:

I have no completed games with Salamence in which I played scum.

I have only one completed game with Sala

, Dangan Ronpa Mafia, in which we were both town. He gambited in the completed game close to LYLO and claimed a town-JOAT. I lynched him there because the claim was not believable. I don't have any meta with Sala-scum.

I have no idea for the basis of that bolded claim and don't particularly agree with it. I don't understand Sala's gambits or his reasoning behind them at all.

Thank you, this does help firm my opinion.

@DrippingGoofball

:

VOTE: DGB

I'm the only play today.

Here is why.

I am in a non-mason neighborhood with Bodie & Poot. I am obviously Wallace.

Therefore, flavor-wise, I cannot be trusted.

Flavor-wise, I'm the snitch. I cannot be kept until LYLO or midgame or heck, another minute.

So lynch me now, and Bodie & Poot will be actual masons.

We have to lynch you because you have possibly scum flavour?

How is this the only play today? Assume you are clear-cut low-rises Barksdale like Stinkums instead of Wallace. Who should we suspect out of the neighbourhood from what you've read?

[Xisiqomelir]

@mastin2

:

Any response of Sala being an idiot will promptly earn you my vote.

Salamence's game-ruining skills are unparalleled.
VOTE: Muki

@Muki

:

Sala defending himself way too much

, but who wouldn't at this point? He did role claim after the 'slip' so I'm not too sure I trust his arguments.

How much defence is "way too much" defence?

Like this. This, Muki's alignment regardless, is scumposting.

I'm perturbed that this post doesn't end in a vote on me.

[Xisiqomelir]

@All

: Peregrine's ISO baffles me as to why he'd be a target. There are 12 posts predicated on the idea that Salamence is scum and calling out Dan, Boo and DGB on that basis. I'm going to treat this NK as misdirection.

[Xisiqomelir]

@mastin2

:

@mastin2

: I'm perturbed that this post doesn't end in a vote on me.

Alas, the mod has seen it fit to bequeath to me but a mere singular vote, a great honor best put to use in continued support of the great campaign to lay rope around Bookitty's neck.

FOR SALAMANCE!

So you ain't gonna say nothing on it?

[Xisiqomelir]

@Dr Pants

:

anyone who questions the nk gains instant scum points

Do you...legitimately believe this? If yes, why shouldn't NKs be discussed?

[Xisiqomelir]

If there is a neighbourhood of three people and one of them who is town says 'lynch me and the other two become masons' why are the two not already masons from that townies POV?

If anyone can solve this mystery then I would love to hear from you. I have been up all night trying to work it out but quite frankly I am bamboozled.

This is where I'm at:

1) DGB is a town neighbour:
- She is self-voting, playing against wincon and risking modkill. -

Unlikely

- This is a ruse and she will call scum from interactions around her wagon later today -

Possible

2) DGB is a scum neighbour:
- She is self-voting, playing against wincon and risking modkill. -

Unlikely

3) DGB is more than just a town or scum neighbour (BBMolla theory):
- She is some sort of jester/vengeful/something and her death will benefit her faction, whatever it is -

My position

[Xisiqomelir]

The point was if DGB were town she would know she doesn't need to be lynched for her neighbours to already be considered masons.

If she were town I don't see how anyone could consider the remaining neighbours masons.

I mean, it's possible, I've been part of a town which fell victim to modpranks before, where Empking put 3 "Werewolf Seers" in Discworld mafia who could night investigate for lycanthropy but no werewolves and the seers went crazy going after each other thinking they all fakeclaimed.

However, setting up an all-town masonhood as a neighbourhood seems even more anti-town than that.

[Xisiqomelir]

If she were town I don't see how anyone could consider the remaining neighbours masons.

Because she would have been telling the truth?

She'd have been telling the truth about her own alignment, but "neighbourhood" implies scum. So 3 person neighbourhood minus one town does not make me think "2 masons".

[Xisiqomelir]

She'd have been telling the truth about her own alignment, but "neighbourhood" implies scum. So 3 person neighbourhood minus one town does not make me think "2 masons".

DGBtown isn't going to tell us to consider them masons unless we should do.

It is quite clear cut either the PM's made it clear enough both Body and Poot are in the game or there is enough grey area that they can be fake claims in which case DGBtown would not be pushing that lynching her makes the other two neighbours masons.

Slandaar, I understand very clearly why you think she's not town-DGB (above case is impossible), while additionally I don't see anything near the level of scumhunting one would expect from Town-DGB, but I can't fathom why scum would self-vote and push their own wagon, hence my jester/etc thoughts.

[Xisiqomelir]

1) DGB is a town neighbour:
- She is self-voting, playing against wincon and risking modkill. - Unlikely
- This is a ruse and she will call scum from interactions around her wagon later today - Possible

I am playing for my wincon to create masons in the other two neighbors and I'm not getting modkilled.

It's not a ruse. Just vote me.

Outside the ambit of {

DrippingGoofball, Majvenmar, Gottemer

} do you have no thoughts at all about Day 2? The two fair-sized wagons? Yesterday's kill? Any of the other 14 posters?

Less analysis because you're vexed at the hydra's poststyle I could understand. A void of analysis is baffling.

The point was if DGB were town she would know she doesn't need to be lynched for her neighbours to already be considered masons.

As the snitch-flavored neighbor, my scum hunting is tainted. No one should pay attention to anything I say while alive. And historically no one pays attention after you're dead and flipped town (see Pikmin Mafia LOL).

Further, Gottemer and RSD should do nothing but try to lynch me all game as they are correctly doing. Everyone else should comply.

I decided the best way to play this role is to get lynched.

Speaking of Pikmin, I haven't seen anything near this calibre of post-quality out of you this game:

Unfortunately I'd be hard-pressed to explain it, but I feel that she's scumhunting like scum. Not really reading or paying attention, targeting the noisier players (kuribo and myself in this instance) with trash like "you seem nervous" and not following through herself, but hoping to get others to do her dirty work. Kinda drawing attention to the unlynchables in the hope of discrediting them, and if they are lynched, freeing her NK for something other than the mandatory N1 NK of the more influencial or experienced players.

Scum 101, really.

Leviathan is fitting the classic profile of the nervous, inexperienced scum that the scum team want to jettison in the hope of getting town cred. A recent example is Gay Mafia II where a scum was bus'ed quite vigorously. Reading the scum QT, he let on to his buddies that he was very insecure with his play. So they pushed his lynch to get rid of the weak link in the team.

I have to work out your angle with the self-vote.

[Xisiqomelir]

WIFOMing out why PV died, which you did, is scummy to a lesser extent.

Town is killed at night for various reasons. Sometimes because they are direct threats to scum, sometimes in an effort to mislead town. I believe more discussion is of greater benefit to town than less discussion, and I'm disturbed that you'd try to exert a chilling effect on that discussion.

[Xisiqomelir]

I don't particularly like Mastin this game.

I've played 3 games with Mastin, and I'm having a hard time reading her this game. I don't understand the DGB position or defence of Salamence's maidenly virtue, but there's a sincerity coming through with some of the townreads.

Her?

We shouldn't deviate from DGB either.

If you can help me work out the self-voting thing I'll join you. While we are on the subject of your neighbourhood, what has Gottemer felt like in the QT?

[Xisiqomelir]

She'd have been telling the truth about her own alignment, but "neighbourhood" implies scum. So 3 person neighbourhood minus one town does not make me think "2 masons".

Dead serious.
I will lynch anyone.
Policy-lynch anyone.
Who seriously advocates neighborhood paranoia just because of it being a neighborhood.
It being 3p does not excuse this.

I've been in a town-3p neighborhood.
I've seen plenty OF town-3p neighborhoods.
In fact it's been years since I've actually SEEN a 3p neighborhood with one scum in it.

Neighborhoods in current site meta are effectively "masons that you don't want to be confirmed town". In other words, all town but where there is a chance (thanks to paranoia of not being masons) of them not being town, thus, making them lynchable. (Inversely, most NEIGHBORIZERS these days are scum. I have a very, very large tendency to place trust in my neighbors if in a neighborhood from the start, and distrust in my neighborizer if recruited.)

Are you going to PL the MS wiki?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Play Advice

If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum.

If you are one of four Neighbors, chances are very good that at least one of the other Neighbors is scum.

If there are multiple Neighborhoods in the same game, chances are very good that at least one of them has a scum Neighbor.

If you are one of more than four Neighbors, it is nearly certain that at least one representative of every anti-town faction is in the Neighborhood.

[Xisiqomelir]

V/LA till Sunday morning SE Asia time (EST+12)

[Xisiqomelir]

Plane delayed 4 hours.

It was Malaysia Airlines too

Have about 20 minutes before food comes let me do like 2 pages tonight

[Xisiqomelir]

Its only beneficial for scum to talk about the nk.

This is horrendous. What else do you prefer not to discuss? I would like to make a point of raising all such topics.

[Xisiqomelir]

Boo getting frustrated and OMGUSing mastin reads highly town to me.

[Xisiqomelir]

Gottemer felt like in the QT?

He is as absent from the neighborhood QT as he is in the game, if not more.

@ReallySexyDudes

: Any opinions about TheGottemer?

[Xisiqomelir]

Are you going to PL the MS wiki?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Play Advice

If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum.

No, but I'll PL anyone using the wiki, when the wiki is VERY largely static, stale, and unmoving, making it very rapidly obsolete to current site meta. Don't believe me? Look at the revision history. The last edit might be in 2014, but look at the contents OF that edit--it's fixing formatting and grammatical errors, not the content of the article itself. Before that? The article was last edited in 2011, three years ago.

Here is Monopoly Mafia from just before I went on hiatus. The neighbourhood was scummy as all get-out.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=2675

Are you going to tell me there is suddenly an abundance of three-man "mason"-hoods? You know I'm going to demand evidence for this assertion, yes? Please provide it.

[Xisiqomelir]

Muki has also requested replacement. Currently looking for two now. Tell yo' friends

Cool an "abandon ship" scumtell. Vote stays.

[Xisiqomelir]

VOTE: mastin2

A dither:

I think this means I objectively suck.

By the way, just sayin',

two players most likely to prioritize Antihero so high are zMuffinman and Titus

. In particular, Titus.
Then again, both would prioritize me fairly high.
But like I said, I objectively suck, Anti subjectively rules, sooooooo, yeah.

Not going to do my research until tomorrow on things, though, since it's already fairly late, here.

followed up by this:

VOTE: SKOT

regardless, skot's already a scumread on page 2. his glib post 45 is :scumposting:
bookitty's another one with the "oh look how town i am hominahominahomina" post....
i'm quickly seeing why peregrine keeled over night 1; he may have been wrong about sal, but i think he caught scum in the crossfire (see: actiondan and bookitty).
speaking of actiondan, post 62 is a doozy..., especially given the thing above it at bookitty
overall, i agree with mastin's conclusion from day 1 that the wagon was scummier than the bottom of a fishtank (see: bookitty, skot).
...speaking of those people, holy shit: these votes | PeregrineV, Dr. Pants, Messiah Complex,

Sharpest-knife-on-tree

, DrippingGoofball, Bookitty,

ReallySexyDudes

, BBmolla, Muki, TheGottemer
Slandaar, Dripping Goofball,

Sharpest-knife-on-tree

,

Really Sexy Dudes

, Jackal711 | they're even in the same order.
gut's also pinging desp because dr. pants is a pretty decent townread at this point.
strongest town: [mastin, DGB, slandaar, Dr Pants, (justin is close)]
strongest scum: [bookitty, SKOT, 'jiffyhydra]
VOTE: bookitty

VOTE: SKOT.

Feel comfortable doing this. Other names of note: zMuffinman, with a side of Dan and a dash of Desp (Messiah Complex).

It's a decent starting place. I'll give another look to the wagons next.

are not town mastin actions in response to N2.

I would also like to make note of how she has been treating me this game, with the casual scumcalls and excuses when questioned about lack of accompanying push this game.

It is perfectly insincere and entirely indicative to me of scum.

We have meta so I suspect this is about to get textual, but I would ask town to please avoid site meta and actually read the words people type. It will be important for this game.

Please note that the next series of posts from mastin will most likely be offended nonsense about how "yes xis is scum but I need to lynch SKOT today" AKA pocket chain-lynching.

[Xisiqomelir]

well well well. would you look at that kill flavor. Man I wonder why that could be. Well, does anyone feel like SPECULATING? No? Damn shame. Guess we'll never know

Bookmarking for myself.

Also good to know Dan is town.

[Xisiqomelir]

(/haven't watched a single episode of the wire)

It is not too late for you:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Wire-Complete ... B005NFJAWG

I encourage you to push my wagon harder, btw. Try to see what Pants and Mastin will do in response to you. They are both:

Xisiqomelir is scum

Dripping Goofball

--ActionDan, Slandaar (L-8)

Slandaar

-- BlueBloodedToffee (L-9)

BooKitty

--mastin2, Salamence20, (L-8)

Salamence20

--PeregrineV, Dr. Pants, Messiah Complex, Sharpest-knife-on-tree, DrippingGoofball, Bookitty, ReallySexyDudes,
BBmolla, Muki, TheGottemer

Not Voting: Justin Playfair, Xisiqomelir, Antihero, Jackal711

Off the wagon, we've got Xisi as likely scum

and Jackal as possible-scum. On it, SKOT and zMuffinman's slots both stand out. Dan COULD be scum, here, though it really depends on what the traitor is.

"scumreading" me (though mastin, unlike pants, has yet to actually vote me), so getting their sincerely-motivated votes to lynch me ought to be easy...one would hope.

[Xisiqomelir]

Yeah, no. I get that you're probably scum, but were you to be town, this proves you don't know anything about me at all.

Downplaying, check. Evasion, check. Refusal to respond to the salient point ("Oh I suck, I guess think this person is scum but now I will vote this other person" is not Town behaviour), check.

To address the point about familiarity for the benefit of town, I can state that I have ample games played with mastin (or mastin-inclusive hydras).

Discworld Mafia
Playing with Fire Mafia
Pikmin Mafia

I can also state that we have never been the same alignment in any game, and I've been town for 2/3 of our series, so it is absurd to state that I am unfamiliar with her scum tactics.

Mastin as scum does not ALLCAPS RAGE like Fate-scum or strut out intellectual superiority as MagnaofIllusion scum used to do. Her scum behaviour is generally homogenized with her town behaviour in that her pushes will remain civilly stated and superficially reasonable-seeming, but even a cursory querying of her sincerity or motive will reveal her positions as spurious.

Please note that the next series of posts from mastin will most likely be offended nonsense about how "yes xis is scum but I need to lynch SKOT today" AKA pocket chain-lynching.

Nah. That's 2012 scuMastin. 2014 scuMastin is far more complex than that. 2012 scuMastin you can predict. 2014 scuMastin relies on you predicting things so that she can subvert, twist, and otherwise morph your predictions to serve her own agenda.

A clear-cut "lynch me if you can". Just read this sentence.

[Xisiqomelir]

guys me and pants agree on a lynch target. it's got ties to DBG. kill it and don't look back.

Dan can I interest you in a mastin lynch?

[Xisiqomelir]

Vezok have you read the entire thread? What other thoughts do you have?

I've read most of it.
I thought mastin was town, but I changed my opinion today. Now she's nullish.

Other than that I didn't see anything that important.

We need more lynches probably.

Legit amazed at this post.

[Xisiqomelir]

@Moderator

: New VC please

@mastin2

:

Vote: Xisiquomelir

.

Not particularly fond of either of the zMuff/Vezok wagons, honestly.

Too little and too late. I'm not giving you a pass this game.

Please respond to this post from D2

:

Are you going to PL the MS wiki?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Play Advice

If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum.

No, but I'll PL anyone using the wiki, when the wiki is VERY largely static, stale, and unmoving, making it very rapidly obsolete to current site meta. Don't believe me? Look at the revision history. The last edit might be in 2014, but look at the contents OF that edit--it's fixing formatting and grammatical errors, not the content of the article itself. Before that? The article was last edited in 2011, three years ago.

Here is Monopoly Mafia from just before I went on hiatus. The neighbourhood was scummy as all get-out.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=2675

Are you going to tell me there is suddenly an abundance of three-man "mason"-hoods? You know I'm going to demand evidence for this assertion, yes? Please provide it.

[Xisiqomelir]

I have to take another long train ride, so I would like to provide my stances on two topics of discussion:

-I didn't think bookitty was scum. I am slightly perturbed that muffin's push on me doesn't involve interacting with me, but I'm not in a rush to fling rope in that direction
-No one should cc vezok's claim, and the claim itself is peculiarly early. I guess this is lynchable but I would far prefer mastin

[Xisiqomelir]

Irrelevant, given that I was wrong and DGB flipped traitor.

Contrariwise, I think it's highly pertinent and you were trying hard to derail a lynch on a scumbuddy. The wiki on traitors states:

Variations

These are a few of the ways that Traitor has been implemented.

The Traitor may or may not know who is in the Mafia to begin with.

If not, Traitor is basically intended to act like a "bad Townie" - whereas "good Townies" try to find scum, "bad Townies" hinder the Town from finding the scum without necessarily knowing who they are. However, it is considerably more common for the Traitor to know who the scum are.
On occasion the Traitor is only told who one of the scum is.

The Traitor may give negative results to Cops (that is, they show up like Townies would). This hearkens back to the earliest interpretation of the Traitor, called the Mafia Spy.
The Mafia Spy shows up as Town to Cops, but the Mafia can "call them back" at any time to make them full members of the Mafia at any time. (Obviously, the Mafia would know that the Mafia Spy exists.)

Some moderators allow for Mafia teams to kill their Traitors with the factional kill. Other times, the Traitor is immune to kills from their Mafia (in which case if the Mafia tries to kill them there is no kill that Night). Still other times, if the Mafia attempts to kill their Traitor the Traitor is instead recruited into the Mafia, allowing it to talk to the rest of the faction and perform the factional kill. All of these have been seen regularly.

If the Mafia can potentially kill their Traitor, they are sometimes told that a Traitor exists in the game. This forces the scum to hunt for their own Traitor in hopes of learning who NOT to kill at Night.

Some Traitors, particularly those that cannot be recruited into the main faction, are compensated by being granted extra powers. For instance, the Mafia Traitor may also be the team's Roleblocker.

Some Traitors lose if the main Mafia group is wiped out, even if they are still alive.

So either scumteam didn't know who DGB was or DGB didn't know who she was with. I think the latter is more likely given her posting, and I think that explains verbiage like the below:

SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY. This is as painfully obvious as it can be. How the heck can you be this dense, Slandaar? It's simple.

DGB sees a neighborhood. She believes absolutely that her two partners are town. She knows that paranoia on the neighborhood will exist. She also knows that the paranoia will be focused on her. She believes fully, 100%, that as far as the rest of the game is concerned, if there's any scum in the neighborhood, it's her. Of course she personally knows herself to be town, but nobody else does. But she also believes 100% that after she flips town, people will (or at least, SHOULD) believe that the other two neighbors are town. I don't see how this can't be clear to you. This has been laid out by her and by me explicitly multiple times. She (subjectively) thinks that the neighborhood should be (objectively) all-town, but thanks to paranoia, will (objectively) be suspected, but the focus will be on her. And she knows (objectively) that if anyone in the neighborhood is scum, it'd be her. So in spite of subjectively knowing herself town, she advocates her death, because she (subjectively) believes that the other neighbors will be objectively town when she dies.

Is this the opinion other players hold, no. But she thinks it should be. It makes perfect sense if you actually bother to follow the train of thought that goes into it. You can disagree with her conclusion (be it that the neighborhood is all town, she should die, or both), sure. But just because you disagree with her conclusion does not mean you shouldn't be able to figure out how she reached it. I've *been there*. I know exactly how she feels. There's a reason I pioneered the Mastin Gambit. Is it ideal play, I happen to disagree and think it is not. Is it play that can be coming from town,

YES

. Just because she isn't playing the way you think is ideal doesn't mean she's scum; it just means your ideals differ from hers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But yes, I've seen and been in plenty of all-town neighborhoods. Among them Xeno and AP's micro.

Can you please enumerate "plenty" exactly? If it turns out that "two" is rather a more a plurality than a miniscule subset of "plenty" that is worth disclosing.

[Xisiqomelir]

what is there to interact with?

you haven't given any fucking reads

I realise my ISO is monumental, but perhaps you could undertake the herculean effort of going through it to Ctrl+F the string "Vote:"?

I will even help you out here and give you a reference: Read the page you posted on.

Question for you: How many of these slots are town?

BooKitty

zMuffinMan--BBmolla, Jackal711, The Gottemer, mastin2, Titus (L-3)

[Xisiqomelir]

We need to lynch mastin please gang. Vacillating until deadline is not a winning play.

[Xisiqomelir]

vezokpiraka

--ActionDan, Messiah Complex, Titus(L-5)

Xisiqomelir

--zMuffinMan, vezokpiraka, mastin2, TheAdrienC (L-4)

Sharpest-knife-on-tree

--ReallySexyDudes, Dr. Pants, POWERFUL TOWNIE, BBmolla, (L-4)

Not Voting: Slandaar, Anatole Kuragin, Sharpest-knife-on-tree

I'm still on page 31.

Shady: mastin, Anatole Kuragin, Pants

Not Shady: Dan, Slandaar, Venjiffy, Molla

I will not be voting Sharpest (yes I saw him vote me). Trust me when I say that his demonstrated skill at the game is not what anyone would call "proficient" (Proof: highly recent meta).

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch! Deadline on August 10th, 11:30 PST

[/area]

Prodding Xisqomelir

Received.

[Xisiqomelir]

I would ask town to please read the words people type

i'm scum, can I give reading a hard pass?

Oops I mean Im TOWN lol. That was almost a salamence moment.

ILU pidg

[Xisiqomelir]

Can someone who think Dr. Pants is town give me a case for it?

He seems like a popular townread but Im not seeing it exactly.

I don't have that opinion, mainly because D2 he got agitated about even the prospect of discussing NKs:

anyone who questions the nk gains instant scum points

and then today when we had entirely different N2 NK flavour from N1 he evaded Dan's point about the topic:

well well well. would you look at that kill flavor. Man I wonder why that could be. Well, does anyone feel like SPECULATING? No? Damn shame. Guess we'll never know

Here are the NKs this game:

PeregrineV, Johnny Weeks, Self-Activated Tree Stump, was caught on the wire and shot from an unknown distance Night One!

Antihero, Cass, One-Shot Commuter, was a victim of police brutality night 2!

I can buy either of:

1) Successful protect N1 by town
2) Successful suppression N1 of killing abilities (subtle distinction from #1)

I can't buy:

1) Failure of action N1 by scum (points to entirely lurksack scumteam, and mastin is highly present this game)

[Xisiqomelir]

@Desp: You played with me a handful of games. In all of them I was town. Why do you think I'm not town here?

"Please unvote me"

[Xisiqomelir]

I could be wrong, but isn't "the wire" slang for wiretapping - as in "getting caught on the wire" would be being implicated in a crime by the police?

You aren't wrong in the flavour context of the show, there is that, but there is also the conjunction and independent clause:

"AND SHOT AT A DISTANCE"

Which I find somewhat perturbing.

While you are here, can you please explain how you didn't end up voting until this page?

[Xisiqomelir]

The wiki on traitors...

Spoiler:

Hey, Xisi.
I'm a Normal Reviewer.
The NRG are working on the Traitor role.
I know it better than most people.
There are more variations than you think.
The mafia can be told the traitor's identity.

This, AND ONLY THIS, version would allow us to 100% be able to scumhunt off of DGB interactions.

The mafia can be told there is a traitor in the game, but not who the traitor is.
The mafia can be told nothing about the traitor.
The traitor can be told who the mafia are.
The traitor can be told nothing about the mafia.
The traitor can be recruited.
The traitor can be killed.

So there are 3.5 variables: mafia knowledge, traitor knowledge, and kill/recruit (these can be separate: mafia recruiters, for instance).

None of these are exclusive.

The appeal to authority is gratuitous. Being in an uninformed majority is what the game is predicated on, and I have to make the best decisions I can with what information I have. Your hastening to respond to every point with dismissal rather than engagement is making me feel that my decision is highly sound.

Can you please enumerate "plenty" exactly? If it turns out that "two" is rather a more a plurality than a miniscule subset of "plenty" that is worth disclosing.

Two off the top of my head. There's more, of course, but I'm lazy, two served the purpose adequately, and because the whole point is entirely null-and-void, I'm not going to bother.

You cannot actually evade my queries. Allow me to re-state and expand upon them:

1) Why were you so highly insistent yesterday that the neighbourhood contained zero scum?
2) Why are you hastening to avoid having to acknowledge your own prior stance?
3) What is the meaning, in plain English, of the following spoilered prose?

Spoiler:

SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY. This is as painfully obvious as it can be. How the heck can you be this dense, Slandaar? It's simple.

DGB sees a neighborhood. She believes absolutely that her two partners are town. She knows that paranoia on the neighborhood will exist. She also knows that the paranoia will be focused on her. She believes fully, 100%, that as far as the rest of the game is concerned, if there's any scum in the neighborhood, it's her. Of course she personally knows herself to be town, but nobody else does. But she also believes 100% that after she flips town, people will (or at least, SHOULD) believe that the other two neighbors are town. I don't see how this can't be clear to you. This has been laid out by her and by me explicitly multiple times. She (subjectively) thinks that the neighborhood should be (objectively) all-town, but thanks to paranoia, will (objectively) be suspected, but the focus will be on her. And she knows (objectively) that if anyone in the neighborhood is scum, it'd be her. So in spite of subjectively knowing herself town, she advocates her death, because she (subjectively) believes that the other neighbors will be objectively town when she dies.

Is this the opinion other players hold, no. But she thinks it should be. It makes perfect sense if you actually bother to follow the train of thought that goes into it. You can disagree with her conclusion (be it that the neighborhood is all town, she should die, or both), sure. But just because you disagree with her conclusion does not mean you shouldn't be able to figure out how she reached it. I've *been there*. I know exactly how she feels. There's a reason I pioneered the Mastin Gambit. Is it ideal play, I happen to disagree and think it is not. Is it play that can be coming from town,

YES

. Just because she isn't playing the way you think is ideal doesn't mean she's scum; it just means your ideals differ from hers.

4) How is it not valid to query your positions and reasoning for those positions when they are proven to be erroneous?

For the record. This basically necessitates a townread on me. Know why, Xisi?

Because zMuffinman has something like a 15+ game history with me and in every single game so far, has gotten the correct read. (Vice-vera too, for what it's worth. To the point where

as scum, I auto-nightkill zMuffinman N1 no questions asked

. He's my first kill priority, surpassing even P.)

I'm not enthralled with this defence. Since you are invoking 3rd party meta, let's ask him.

@zMuffinMan

: Is the quoted post by mastin a legitimate reason to dismiss the possibility of her being scum this game? Can you cite any games recent games with mastin as scum where you did not die N1 as town?

(Btw, Xisi's stances that post are horribad. It's basically saying "don't want to lynch either Vezok or zMuffinman, but I easily can.")

Not the case. My post:

I have to take another long train ride, so I would like to provide my stances on two topics of discussion:

-I didn't think bookitty was scum. I am slightly perturbed that muffin's push on me doesn't involve interacting with me, but I'm not in a rush to fling rope in that direction
-No one should cc vezok's claim, and the claim itself is peculiarly early. I guess this is lynchable but I would far prefer mastin

Which is a pretty clear "will not lynch today" for muffin and "could lynch today, but not as a first choice" for vezok.

[Xisiqomelir]

Not Shady: Dan, Slandaar, Venjiffy, Molla.

I would like to discuss this a little bit more as well.

-I have scum meta with Dan. There is no chance he would stake out a stance as aggressive as:

I call them as I see them.

Why don't you do me the courtesy of explaining why NK speculation of any form is scummy next time before demanding explanations for statements that are self-explanatory. PV did not seem particularly townish in any capacity, and therefore looks more like a vig kill than a scum kill.

if he wasn't town.

-Majvenmar is POE town with one scum neighbour dead, and also found that scum neighbour and lead the wagon.

-Slandaar is engaging in an active thought process for the benefit of town:

The point was if DGB were town she would know she doesn't need to be lynched for her neighbours to already be considered masons. This being one of her big arguments as to why she wants to be lynched. It sounds really pro-town though when you are saying you confirm two people as masons by being lynched it

sounds

like you have thought it through and have the towns interests at heart.

-I always think Molla is town.

[Xisiqomelir]

UNVOTE: mastin2
VOTE: Vezokpiraka

I will be here till DL and gradually catching up.

Will not move to muffin or Sharpo.

Will gladly lynch mastin but no one is listening.

[Xisiqomelir]

Shady: mastin, Anatole Kuragin, Pants

wait... are these your scum reads? why pants? i haven't seen you talk about him at all

"You can't talk about $THING" is generally an anti-town stance, save for when such discussion would reveal information to anti-town factions.

When $THING is the nightkill, and discussion can only help inform town, it's highly suspicious.

[Xisiqomelir]

I will not be voting Sharpest (yes I saw him vote me). Trust me when I say that his demonstrated skill at the game is not what anyone would call "proficient" (Proof: highly recent meta).

Thats grand and all, but do you have any opinion on his alignment this game?

Most likely town, and most likely we'll have to suffer his presence all the way till the end of the game. As a weak and ineffectual player, scumteam is most likely happy to keep him around as mislynch fodder at LyLo.

Re NK Spec: Meh. I don't see Pants dissuading NK spec to be scummy exactly, just playstyle indicative more than anything. Further, I have noted the differing flavors for the NKs but I don't really think there is a good reason to talk about it right now. Could mean absolutely nothing. Could be relevant, but I'm sure not going to go spelunking there just yet.

See above.

@Desp: You played with me a handful of games.

In all of them I was town.

Why do you think I'm not town here?

"Please unvote me"

Who doesn't want to be voted, town or scum? Oh thats right, BOTH don't want to be voted. So I really fail to see your point here.

There is a very pertinent distinction here. "Please unvote me" is not a town response to being run up. "I am town for these reasons" is.

Also note that vezok's stated reason I bolded has literally zero bearing upon this game.

Your hastening to respond to every point with dismissal rather than engagement is making me feel that my decision is highly sound.

I looked at your point and mastin is right.

Your assertions are all rather egregious

and any case based off of them is flimsy. Mastin made valid points by pointing out that Traitors are often unpredictable. Why do you want to base a case on speculation?

Reasoning for the underlined, please. As long as she evades, rather than addresses, the points, I will keep pressing them.

[Xisiqomelir]

-Majvenmar is POE town with one scum neighbour dead, and also found that scum neighbour and lead the wagon.

Why isnt my slot also listed as PoE town then?

I might be willing to move to Xisi today if needed.

zMuffin, I'm going to go insane trying to read you objectively this game.

Because you are not part of the set mentioned for discussion in the quoted post:

Not Shady: Dan, Slandaar, Venjiffy, Molla.

I would like to discuss this a little bit more as well.

Hence, "reading" "important" etc.

And yes both you neighbours are town now.

[Xisiqomelir]

Whatever, I can do what I want.

Xis, are you Stinkum or are you Anton Artis?

Neither, but I have flave-crumbed already.

[Xisiqomelir]

Tigers ate my mastin response, now I have to retype it

[Xisiqomelir]

That's L-2

And it also is on the other wagon?

vezokpiraka

--ActionDan, Messiah Complex, Anatole Kuragin, Slandaar (L-4)

UNVOTE: mastin2
VOTE: Vezokpiraka

VOTE: Vezok

Going to bed. V is scummer out of larger wagons. Will change if needed later.

Why so selective, TheAdrienC?

[Xisiqomelir]

And I normally do this at L-1, but we're tight on time here.

I am

Brianna Barksdale

, Avon's

imouto

, and the non-street face of the family.

Crumb:

@mastin2

:

@mastin2

: I'm perturbed that this post doesn't end in a vote on me.

Alas, the mod has seen it fit to bequeath to me but a mere singular vote, a great honor best put to use in continued support of the great campaign to lay rope around Bookitty's neck.

FOR SALAMANCE!

So you ain't gonna say nothing on it?

Which ought to have been obvious from the disconnect from my usual grammatical style, but apparently practically no one has watched the show this game.

From this ep, after Dee dies courtesy of Stringer's string-pullery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5M1C5Q#t=7

I was originally our town Conditional Enabler, which let me provide substantial support for our PRs every night, like letting them perform night actions without the possibility of interruption or cancellation or interference, but the condition hinged upon Avon being alive in the game. Since he died, there is an "I've done all I can for you" clause in my role PM which triggered, and I became town 1-shot Enabler, hence:

this:

Salamence20, Avon Barksdale, a Vanilla Townie, was beaten to death Day 1!

lead to this:

Salamence's game-ruining skills are unparalleled.

I still have my shot. With my role dropping to 1-shot before I even got to post, I wanted to be sure of my PR-guesses before I used it.

[Xisiqomelir]

Here's my pseudo-L-2:

Xisiqomelir--

vezokpiraka

,

mastin2

, TheAdrienC,

Sharpest-knife-on-tree, BBMolla, zMuffinMan

(L-2)

I obviously will not bother addressing

scum

on my wagon (please note their posts over the last few pages), nor AdrienC, who has exempted itself from the obligation to think critically, so this is addressed to

town

on my wagon:

I would like you to review my claim and vezok's claim, the timing of each, and the plausibility of each (Bree paid for Namond and De'Londa out the dwindling money she had as long as she could, and no one in their right minds would consider Roland "Wee-Bey" Brice a

protective

role), and think as critically as you are able (Molla this goes extra hard for you because I solved a game for you and =4508482]you derped).

[Xisiqomelir]

EBWOP: This is the Molla-derp:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4508482

[Xisiqomelir]

Neither, but I have flave-crumbed already.

Hrm

Assume you are clear-cut low-rises Barksdale like Stinkums instead of Wallace

This actually just seems weird then; the way you have used Stinkums.

I wasn't setting a trap card, I just picked a low-rises Barksdale hood outside the Wallace-Poot-Bodie love triangle to try to get DGB to give an indicative response. We had a Cass, there could well be a Stinks or Anton.

[Xisiqomelir]

what does your role actually do?

I'm skirting the no-quote rule pretty closely already. Basically, I pick someone who I think is a town PR every night, and their action will go through no matter what other night actions are declared to interfere with them (my PM is explicit that my role will overrule all others)

[Xisiqomelir]

EBWOP: "was able to" etc

[Xisiqomelir]

Hello friends, I am now powerless.

VOTE: Anatole Kuragin

I would like to get a solid wagon going here. I do not believe this to be a town slot.

Spoiler:

VOTE: SALAMENCE

Make the little man fly.

The L-1 first post.

I think Messiah Complex is scum.

(Just closed my eyes and pointed at the screen..)

Sala defending himself way too much

, but who wouldn't at this point? He did role claim after the 'slip' so I'm not too sure I trust his arguments.

I got a tagout instead of an answer to pointing out the bolded.

Yeah I'd vote for slardar

Having not yet voted that day, and then does not.

I'm still very ready to lynch mastin, but the only person who seemed receptive was Venjiffy.

I strongly townread Boo, let me re-read zMuff tomorrow (Aug 17 tomorrow) to get where everyone is coming from.

I think these slots are entirely town: Majvenmar, Molla, Slandaar, Dan, Titus, SKOT

[Xisiqomelir]

Titus is playing too... sane and not making any real arguments of her own.

Can you explain "too sane"?

[Xisiqomelir]

Hello friends, I am now powerless.

i thought you were saving your shot for a claimed PR or something. who did you use it on?

Obv will not be answering this question

I think these slots are entirely town: Majvenmar, Molla, Slandaar, Dan, Titus, SKOT

why is titus town? why is skot town?

Titus is expressing genuine antipathy towards you in 1106.

Now, I've never played with her before, but generally scum are less direct.

@Titus

: Links to your last 2 scum games please.

[Xisiqomelir]

why is skot town?

He is the designated mislynch bait. Look at how he can't even string together 2 coherent sentences per post. I won't lynch people just for BAM.

[Xisiqomelir]

This slot has been occupied by two lazy, disinterested people.

That apparently makes us not town. Cool case bro.

Please address the substance of my concerns. Why didn't you vote Slandaar in the end?

[Xisiqomelir]

vote: theadrienc

this is the lynch we can believe in

Discuss please. I want to get a firmer idea of that slot myself.

[Xisiqomelir]

I wish you guys would not hammer lynches through when I'm in AsiaTime.

[Xisiqomelir]

I'm beat, so lemme throw out just this before the lock.

Cool: Venjiffy, Sland, Dan.

Not Cool: Mastin, Anatole

Conditional: Pants and Adrien based on this flip. It's kind of risky for scum though, so I'm inclined to say town.

[Xisiqomelir]

Hello friends.

@Slandaar

: Will you end the Day when you kill Anatole? How much (real) time are you giving us?

[Xisiqomelir]

Rather than type up some cascade of text I will just ask the basic question:

@Slandaar, Anatole

: Who do we lynch?

[Xisiqomelir]

I'm against lynching Dan. There is zero scum motivation for persisting in a Miller claim now that there is obviously no cop. He'd be far better served claiming VT as scum.

That leaves a VT pool of molla, Messiah and Muffin, out of which I'd probably lynch Messiah first, but I want to re-read more.

I'm a little queasy about the way mastin is now willing to bump me up to town today as well.

[Xisiqomelir]

@Messiah Complex: This is =22482&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]your ISO. The part I have a problem with is #85-87. Can whichever head was posting walk me through your thinking?

Also, what is your current opinion of TheAdrienC?

p.s.

Happy scumday

[Xisiqomelir]

EBWOP: Such url-post, so amaze.

Correct ISO link: http://[POSSIBLEtinyurlSPAM].com/pfkdppf

[Xisiqomelir]

.....

If AD had retracted his miller claim, he'd basically be autolynched

Not like he has a choice but to keep it up if he's scum

No one, town or scum can flipflop in claims and not expect rope.

What I mean is, the scum motivations for claiming miller pre-cop report would be:

1) To dodge investigations
2) To pull off a Disney Villains Mafia

I don't feel like this is what Dan is trying to pull off here.

[Xisiqomelir]

Prodding BBmolla and Xisiqomelir

Received. Messiah, I still need an answer to my questions.

[Xisiqomelir]

VOTE: Messiah Complex

Desp at least is posting elsewhere on site.

[Xisiqomelir]

Not to jump on the bandwagon, but my motivation has been dwindling lately. Mafia just doesn't have the spark it used to at the moment.

You know what fixes it?

Meetups.

I'm serious.

Molla lets get wasted at Singapore Formula 1

[Xisiqomelir]

Okay. I think I have a question, for the big four (plus Xisi).

zMuffinman:

Dan scum with Messiah town is your opinion.
But there should be two scum. Can you give your guess to the second with a short explanation why?

ActionDan:

Two scum, and cliffnote explanations for why.

BBMolla:

Same question. Not one scum. Not three scum. Two names, and why.

Messiah:

Same for you, Desp. It can't be just Dan. So name a second, and why.

Xisi:

You've been oddly quiet on your thoughts, here.


I realize this sucks and is really basic, but I AM trying.

The only person I'm actually willing to call town for certain is Adrien. I cannot see how he'd be on a scumteam with SKOT the way he got him lynched.

I strongly believe Dan is not scum and I won't vote him. Also, you supposedly 50% cleared him yourself.

I'm still seeing Muffin as town off Bookitty read residuals.

I always think Molla is town, but I should re-read him as it is late in the game.

You I am still chary as all hell about. I've had negative feelings since D2, and there's still Gambler's Fallacy weighing on my mind, though I'm trying very very hard to be dispassionate and logical about it. I assume that an RB exists since Adrien disclosed it, and I'm disturbed that no one has pointed out that Pants could have been blocked instead of redirected N2.

Messiah I am willing to rope today. My question is hardly a searing brand of intensity, I don't see why the heads are avoiding it.

[Xisiqomelir]

Ade that hammer is on town, and should have been delayed at least a few more hours.

[Xisiqomelir]

@Dan: Full scum to town list plz?

Same question for anyone reading thread right now and in before lock. Mine is like 3 posts up on my ISO

[Xisiqomelir]

Reads list is unchanged from yesterday. I need some time for a re-read.

[Xisiqomelir]

I'm pretty sure I will vote Messiah again today.

Whether it's Molla or Muffin as the partner is proving to be tough for me. There is a lot of no-longer-in-game content calling it as Muffin, e.g.

@Dan: Full scum to town list plz?

Same question for anyone reading thread right now and in before lock. Mine is like 3 posts up on my ISO

Wtf m8. Its 2/3 of desp molla abd muffins. Thayll be obvious after I flip. Choose muffin firdt. Then I lean desp as scum. Id rely on bettet minds tbh but mastin will be d3ad and itll be you left. I guess thays alright tho since you arent dumb

and

Good Afternoon Xis!

I don't end the day.

You should lynch Muffin. I think you should also massclaim today to sort out all the claim stuff.

but I am finding it very hard to swallow.

@BBMolla

: I asked you for your recent scum meta a few days back, can you give me some?

[Xisiqomelir]

A situation I am unfamiliar with. Desp has been floating the idea that Adrien is scum for a few days now, and I am on board with him. I think that it is very likely that the cops would have a watcher on their roster given the flavor of this game. Think about it, in the show cops sat on roof tops taking pictures of brothers doing drug deals. They literally sat up there and just watched the deals going down, taking pictures and cataloging the players in the game. It is very plausible that Adrien was able to "figure out" the odd and even thing because he just gave his role, leaving out the fact that he was not in fact actually town in this game.

I really cannot see the angle behind the SKOT lynch though. Walk me through a motivation there.

[Xisiqomelir]

Actually, any answers will be absurd. Adrien has to be town.

VOTE: Messiah Complex

[Xisiqomelir]

TY Toasto, I thoroughly enjoyed myself here.

Fuck this game.

Haters come at me

Only winners get haters, yo!

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/K9nnC4nn2jB6

Insta-sigged.

On a serious note, since I still have about 30 minutes of scumday left in my TZ, here's what went down in Wire S1 Mafia (all opinions of course entirely my own)

1) I love my scumteam

- Every member of scumteam played it to the hilt this game. DGB took a crappy situation, and played it off in a perfectly legit fashion (and I still deserve to QT with her, and it will happen). When I say SKOT rocks it BAM-style, it was actually praise for his homogeneity. Slandaar and Sala and I had all just finished the Mutiny Mafia mini, and the multiple parallels (absurd trollhammer, ee cummings-style oneliners, quantum troll logic) were ample to fakecall him town and carry on with it. I don't think he would have been killed sooner than 2 days later if he hadn't been caught out on the Watch. Boo caught a lot of heat, but we maintained so many viably scummy wagons D1 and D2 that Town's vote was split just enough to let her slide by.

And muffin gets a para on his own because he really pulled it out this game with his manipulation of molla and mastin. You can read his (genuine) guilt in our QT about all the stops he pulled out to get us this win. I have nothing but praise and would happily scum up with him again.

2) Flavour ruled the day

- Toasty did an incredible job with the role assignment and flavour matchups this game. A big part of why my claim carried me through literal days of zero content (see Titus lynch) is that the name, which was mod-provided, worked so well with the role I cooked up. Brianna really did help out the "street widow" Barksdales, and then her money really did run out after Avon went down, so she had to stop. You can see that everyone who was familiar with the flavour bought into it at least a little bit:

Spoiler:

Xis's claim actually does make sense

Xis might be - his claim was good but scum got fake claims including roles so his role could be fake.

Whereas people who hadn't seen much of the Wire yet thought of it in terms of pure Mafia theory and were dumbfounded by how I sailed past:

Spoiler:

No seriously guys. You unvoted cause of the claim?

Does that claim even make sense? We have a VT, a self activated treestump and a commuter flipped and you think a one person empowerer makes even a little sense?

This is probably his scum role instead of a strongman kill.

I think Xisis claim is a load of garbage and should be lynched but eh.

-ap.
I'm at innout burger ^^

3)Large Theme Law - aka "Town on Town slapfights"

- We all know how this part works. Once you go over 13 players sticking closely to your good initial instinctual reads (mastin called all of scumteam but DGB D2) becomes really hard when fellow town starts to annoy you, the game swells to pages upon pages of nonsensical hyperdefensive hysteria, and your motivation to play just evaporates.

---------------------------------------------------

I honestly thought town played really well this game, especially Pants and Mastin, my teasing in our QT aside. A big part of the game is exploiting aspects of a player's personality that you've grown accustomed to, and I've wall-v-walled mastin in 4 games now. Dunno if we'll ever end up on the same alignment, but I hope so! It should be fun.

gg everyone

-Xisiqo

[Xisiqomelir]

I made way too many mistakes in this game, especially since I was suspicious of two scums right when I came into the game and left those instincts high and dry.

FWIW aside from the LyLo quickvote (always a bad idea), I thought you were pretty decent.

I was quite insistent with muffin that you should have been yesterday's NK, but he really wanted to make it mastin.

[Xisiqomelir]

Why why why does town almost always lynch me day 1 or when I am right?

I thought you were town!

[Xisiqomelir]

Goofy can we be in a Large, on the same team, and actually able to communicate next time?

As one of your biggest fanboys, I would like that.

[Xisiqomelir]

Happy scumday and hrm...