Micro 376: Chosen Mafia - Game Over = Perfect Town Win

[Lying Cat]

Joyous Salutations!

What do I need to know having read absolutely nothing besides the player list?

[Lying Cat]

Shut up jingle, you're lucky to even be here. Go read the setup; I'm quizzing you on it tomorrow.

[Lying Cat]

I hope you boys didn't draw scum. Cause that would suck for you. ; )

You wish.
But nope. And I didn't think I would when I skimmed the game, but I couldn't pass up the playerlist. Like, half my ideal micro is in three slots.

There's no way in hell my slot was vetoed though, which probably wouldn't have happened if I started in the game.

@TSO- I'm loving your confidence in this game. This is not scumTSO from faith, and it's not lazyTSO from flitter. This is TSO as he's meant to be

(am I allowed to call you 'kiddo' now that you know it's not a pejorative or attack on your credibility? It really is a term of endearment from me, but I won't use it if you don't like it)

@all- I'll read up for reals this afternoon.

I have a mild townread on TSO and TTH, just from the skim.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Yeah that's not really scummy. At all.

[Lying Cat]

Like, I see where you're coming from but your conclusions don't hold any water. How do you feel about people who are not TSO?

[Lying Cat]

That banter is super cute and all, but can we do something productive?

BBT, not being a fan of vanity wagons does not equal scum by any stretch.

Tell me about your own scumread on josh, from inception to fall. And where you know AP from. And who your biggest townread is.

-sthar

[Lying Cat]

I just did something productive. TSO is scum...you don't see it?

I'm not scum-reading Josh.

I know AP from an ongoing game.

Biggest town-read is ZZZX.

TSO's vote on josh was fine, and it fit his play transparently. You're asserting something as a scumtell that doesn't even have a mild correlation with alignment. Drop it.

If you have more than that, consider this an official request for an itemized case.

Josh was your second vote of the game, and looking at VCs you were on the wagon at it's largest point. Are you saying that was a second random vote? Why did you leave it on so long?

re: AP- Roger.

I'm not sure how I feel about a Z townread. Not that I disagree with it, but there's subtlety to this setup that I need to think about.

@AP are you townreading BBT?

[Lying Cat]

Ok. I may have more questions for you later.

[Lying Cat]

ETL, we would like to know why you are gaslighting TSO.

[Lying Cat]

ETL, why are you ignoring us? We're here and willing to flirt. Just tell us why you're gaslighting our hylian friend.

Seriously, you're almost making me want to replace out, you're just out-right annoying.

This offends me. Replacements are a necessary evil because emergencies happen. It is incredibly rude to the mod and the other players to replace out for any other reason.

[Lying Cat]

Hey so the fucking rain stopped and I'm gonna catch up right now.

[Lying Cat]

I dont know what this means... I'm not intentionally doing anything to anyone..

Also.. Hylian? You're talking about TSO? I'm surprised you're unable to see what he was doing there and you are actually coming to his defense .... ?

There are a couple questions about this, so I'm gonna answer all of them at once in spoilers below.

That was totally Jingle btw. I don't think I've referenced a video game in my life.

Sthar is a very logical, observant person. I would not expect him to completely gloss over what occurred without at least minimal commentary.

I didn't mafia at all yesterday,

and you know that for a fact.

Did you think I was just blowing you off in sitechat? Jingle sat here and watched me work for 10 hours while he fucked around on the site.

Ya well Im eating Korean BBQ spicy pork and it feels good.

I burned down your house ten minutes ago.

I don't think Sthar is town.

HEY JINGLE LOOK WHAT I FOUND!

Exactly

the progression I predicted. Like, I might even have had the right post number, though it's hard to tell because they're slipping so much.

I don't have a read on this, but this is an insult to anyone that's actually actually been gaslighted. Do you realize gaslighting is a form of psychological

abuse?

No I didn't. I

obviously

routinely use words with

no idea

as to their meaning.

Making assumptions about me without evidence is incredibly rude.

Let's break it down:
1. Lying, emotional manipulation, and aggression can be antisocial behaviors and vectors for abuse. If you have suffered such abuse, you have my sympathy and I'd be happy to lend an ear outside the game.
2. They are also intrinsically necessary to a game of mafia, in which all the players are consenting to being lied to, manipulated, argued with, having their motives questioned, and a lot of other things that could cause trauma in another setting. Indeed, some players who have trouble distinguishing between the play and the player have experienced very high stress due to the environment.
3. Let me tell you a little story: One of the boys I mentor has a scar just above his hairline from where his 'father' struck him and broke his skull when he was four or five years old. He has very serious issues resulting from this, including difficulty trusting adults and a fear of physical contact. Do you know what he does

not

do? He does not go into a boxing gym and tell the competitors that their willingness to punch each other is insulting to him.
4. Gaslighting techniques (lasting only for the duration of the game and therefore by definition

not

being longterm or systematic) are

incredibly effective scumtools

. I know that ETL is aware of this, because I used many of them on her in a game we played. Evidence suggests that there was no lasting trauma, since postgame she congratulated me on the win like a mature individual, moved on from the loss, and has played three or four games with me since.

Attempting to police my words because of their out-of-game connotations when we routinely talk about

lynching and shooting

one another is patently ridiculous.

I have an errand that needs to be run, I'll get to the rest in a bit.

[Lying Cat]

See my comment above. We're not lynching you today anyway. Cool your nuts.

The bolding was so that nobody missed it, not for emphasis. My nuts are like ice. Italian ice.

[Lying Cat]

So, sthar8's babysitting this morning. He will be back later, probably later today, to post. Anti, don't feel too bad about Especially the Bird's insane reads, given that they're, you know, scum.

[Lying Cat]

Sorry, three hours of babysitting turned into three days. I'll catch up tonight.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

why the fuck are we voting z?
UNVOTE:

[Lying Cat]

ETL, he obviously was flashing his wagonge.

[Lying Cat]

Are you insane? I already feel like I'm way out of my league. I think the roles are reversed here and I need to stay out of

your

way because I feel like the remedial kid in the class.

I don't understand how you think TSO is scum or how BBT is town or how Lying Cat is town.

1. TSO probably ain't scum, so you're good there.
2. I'm not sure I agree about BBT, but he had some posts that sounded like trying to figure things out which is a towntell.
3. Your brother has carnal knowledge of my scumgame both at its best and at its worst. We're manfriends.
4. Nah you're doing great. This is a list of

very

good players and you're keeping up and being insightful.

oh yeah, and "hydra" as an excuse to not have a read

/fart

you know TSO, you could quit being an inflammatory asshole for the sake of being an inflammatory asshole (which i've

seen

you use to advance a scum win condition before) and actually, you know, give some solid scumreads.

This isn't that. He's being defensive. Inflammatory TSO wouldn't have apologized to GG.

Lying Cat what do you think is the best plan?

Lynch scum, burn down houses, laugh at tear gas. In that order.

Okey Dokies: here's what I've been meaning to get to for three days.

Spoiler: everything important up to now

Everything was cool and nonindicative up to
249 in which AP accuses TSO of being scum for arguing over nothing, when in fact ETL and TSO had clearly suffered a miscommunication and then come to an understanding. AP is legendary for his waffles, so the abrupt 180 doesn't really bug me, but 'inane shit' is something I've seen AP regard as a towntell before and TSO was hardly obstructing discussion.

254 has AP calling TSO scum by POE, which is interesting given how many nulls and waffles he's had and that it's day 1. He also draws associative tells with Josh as evidence. Josh is unflipped, which make those tells meaningless, but AP still wants to lynch TSO. Faulty POE and associatives are very easy cases for scum to push because their target cannot defend against them. Calling scumteams on day 1 is silly, using associatives with unflipped players is silly, and wanting to lynch TSO based on the assumption that Josh is scum is daft.

260 is a rehash of "you're scum because josh is." AP is avoiding interactions with TSO, and simply trying to push the lynch.

267 TSO gets frustrated with the non-case from AP and crosses the line.

269 AP hits the eject button from the conversation. His "i'm not reading any more of TSO's posts" gives him the moral high ground and means he doesn't have to justify any reads on TSO ever. It also comes off as completely disingenuous because I'm sure AP has called people "fucking terrible" before, and being so thin-skinned about something

he's done to others

is well beneath his level of emotional maturity. It's also the beginning of a gaslighting campaign: AP knows that TSO has been called out publicly for abusiveness and toxicity before. All AP has to do is howl like Britney Spears and TSO's credibility dies like Britney's career. TSO knows he fucked up as evidenced by 286, so he'll spend the rest of the game wondering if he's being discredited by scum or policy lynched by town.

270 is a way over the top reaction from ETL. I could buy it because she gets super defensive of her hydra partners, but "ur fuckin terrible" doesn't even

rate

on the ETL scale of insults. She's trying to make TSO feel disproportionately bad about his mistake.

274 is more 'tso was mean to me, so i shouldn't be held responsible for the consequences of lynching him'

281 is TSO's apology. He doesn't use the words 'I'm Sorry' because he's too proud, but he clearly indicates contrition. He says that he did not mean to call AP terrible (whether he actually means that he didn't mean to type it that way or regrets it is immaterial; they come to the same sentiment.) He calls AP and ETL's reactions justified.

287 AP ignores the apology and calls TSO toxic again. He reiterates that he will bear no responsibility for tso's flip. Again, he's creating the perception that TSO did something unforgivable and that nothing he says will have any credibility.

At this point, Jingle and I decided that GG exaggerating TSO's fuckup and using it to discredit and shame him was fairly indicative of scum. I suggested that with all AP's posturing, it was possible that TSO was Chosen. He said it reminded him of my play in a certain 5p with snork, and I agreed. He asked if he could call GG out on it, and I said yes but predicted that if we were correct and they were scum they'd find a way to make us a viable scumread within ten posts.

Jingle got aggressive in 321. Not counting slips, it was 15 posts from GG before they stopped townreading me in 366. Since then, we've been in and out of their scum reads as often as a hollywood divorce lawyer is in court. They're bouncing between appeasing me and intimidating me with scumreads, which is super weird because our relationship is generally the opposite. Plus AP isn't 'waffling' so much as 'trying to lynch anyone' and ETL hasn't gone paranoid on me yet this game.

tldr- GG is feeling wayy off their towngame and trying to lynch tso for bullshit reasons.

VOTE: GG

[Lying Cat]

Hey can everyone not quote whole walls? It's really annoying.

Pfffffffffffffff

Voting us? Get real Sthar. Go get Jingle on the phone. Or are you guys just scum this game?

I had to log over to this account because I actually laughed so much when I saw this post (I have read none of it but the vote) that smoke from this cigarello got in my eyes and I cried a bit. Which made me laugh harder in an ironic way.

el oh el.

Jingle was riding this horse long before I was, cowpoke.

I appreciate the ad lapidem though. Makes me feel loved and validated. I'm slightly less likely to kill myself today.

@Anti- go read AP from reboot. This is

exactly

how he was treating molly, jiffy, and mastin.

manfriends

This isn't a real word.

It's a state of mind.

Oh yeah and one last thing -

TTH/Anti

If LC is scum, he's going to try to buddy the two of you (because he can and you are susceptible to it) and polarize AP and I away from the group, then eventually, kill us. Don't fall for his manipulative shit.

NC

I'm going to do that as town. We literally

just

discussed this the other day.

There's two of you, you had three days to think all of this through and this is all that you guys had to say, really?

(1.)

Really not liking this post at all. Why are you guys playing so lazily? I wouldn't normally think that, being lazy is a scum-tell.

(2.)

What's bothering me is that there's two people posting on that account and it doesn't seem like it, at all. I understand that one of you was busy with "baby sitting," but why wasn't the other head posting during that time?

(3.)

I've played in a hydra before and you don't just wait for the other head to give you their reads to post; you post when you want to post and keep your partner updated with your reads and they'll do the same. So, what's the problem here? I'm actually seeing this from GG/Antihero, but not from you two, so.

I forgot to paragraph break, so here's an "easier" version to read.

Hi.

1. What? There's like a billion words there. At least my walls don't end with "but I don't have a solid read on anyone." This is like a tu quoque, except you're calling me out for doing something that

you are and I'm not

. It's like... the pot calling the watermelon black.

2. But you're going to anyway. Smart.

3. See, the thing is that we're an IRL literal hydra. Two heads, four arms, one set of genitals. So we rarely shit up the thread with dissonance because (3a. we're not scum) and 3b. If Jingle says something stupid I can just physically hit him. Also we were totally posting in the thread over the weekend; jingle was poking ETL and she was ignoring him. And everyone was demanding my rockin bod, which jingle was obviously unable to provide. So he did what he could because 3c. him wanted me to maek mine cayse because me talk gooder.

I'm sorry that you are offended because some small humans cannot feed themselves or drive, and I was consequently not present to comfort you.
I'm sorry that we apparently don't fit with your apparently vast experience with hydrae.
I'm sorry that we both have better things to do on workdays than spam the thread with what we're having for lunch.

If I was a doctor, I would prescribe vigorous oral sex preformed upon the nearest stranger.

Much like your posts, it's bad.

Have you ever considered that maybe your problem with toxicity isn't

everyone else

?

I actually think LC is scum here, to be honest. The early replacement + the huge lack of actual content from that slot is bothersome. We've waited three days for you to post something with actual content and all it has is the interactions between TSO/GG which people have already talked about. Oh, and some other things like "TSO is town, not sure about BBT but he towntold, etc.."

Why is Jingle so afraid to post without you around?

Because I'm a scary guy.

Seriously though, I'm gonna borrow from the theme and say that this post is "fucking terrible."

Please, tell me more. Using your

vast

experience, please explain to me my

own thought processes

, my

relationship with my brother

, and

our work schedules

.

Or you could like, go read a game we've played in.

p-edit more in a minute. I'm gonna bury you all in bricks.

[Lying Cat]

Jingle is scared to post

Holy. Shit. AP. Anti. Do either of you remember what he said in the scum QT for Reboot???????

ETL

Oh come off it. OC ended less than a month ago. The activity tracks exactly the same. When I'm gone, Jingle lurks. When Jingle's gone, I sporadically wallpost. nice narrative though.

when sthar and jingle don't even have a history of inactive scumgames?

We have a history of strategic inactivity as both alignments. Most people are bad at determining strategic inactivity vs nonindicative inactivity. The unstereotypical canadian is obviously just not doing meta, though.

Sorry for slip, again. But TSO - I am interested in having a neutral chat with you. I really am. But I'm busy as fuck at the moment at work. So, hold those thoughts for me until I get home, ok?

p-edit: hi anti. bye anti.

I thought you two hated TSO forever now and were unwilling to engage him on anything? What happened to that policy lynch?

i think lying cat has his fist firmly planted up his ass and is asking entirely the wrong questions. you wanna' give a reads list or something sthar?

You know me so well. Wanna switch out?

reads:
town- TSO, you
idfk but not today- z, bbt, awfste
hour zero compromises- josh, flubber
scum- gg

specifics:
igaf about z's alignment. he's very obvious lategame either way.

if i died and flipped chosen, lynching awtfsting would be your number 1 priority. TSO correctly noted that diving headfirst onto my wagon the moment it looked viable was incredibly suspect. She could also just be extremely lazy or entitled, though.

bbt is drawing the wrong conclusions from the wrong evidence and tunneling, then getting pissy when challenged. That's mostly a town behavior.

id really have a read re flubber, but i liked TTH's point about them having a fence-shaped bruise on their ass. Reactive scum is a viable strategy in this setup.

josh is trying to be

seen

as the voice of reason. That makes my unmentionable hairs tingle.

GG is trying to do to me what I tried to do to Wisdom in true love. They're fucking up on their meta read of me, but it doesn't matter since

nobody else is going to look into it

. They're desperately digging for any towncred they can find and using all the oldest tricks to discredit me. They even tried to set me and Jingle against each other,

twice

, which has worked precisely never.

Let's be frank: Of course I'm manipulating you. That's what I do. I'm manipulating everyone here to some extent. But the simple fact is that GG is scum, and I'm going to use every tool at my disposal to lynch them. It would be stupid to do otherwise.

I need you to reexamine that read.

more in a minute.

[Lying Cat]

a bunch of bullshit

Hey so if you're going to make a bunch of ridiculously stupid and insane assumptions, it is not my obligation to anticipate and correct you. Instead, maybe you should check what my normal behavior is before making a garbage argument about deviation from normal behavior. Alternatively, you might pursue a fulfilling career as the author of equally improbably and fantastic pornography targeted to lonely housewives.

I like how

your

stupid arguments are somehow

my

fault, and even after admitting that your castle was built on sand you're trying to keep the conclusion without the 'evidence.' That obviously speaks of intellectual honesty and integrity.

Damn, I really do feel buried. In bricks. Ah, never mind.. that's coming in a "minute," once Jingle can get the other head to post for him.

I broke up with my girlfriend last night, and I'm buried at work atm. Please continue this line of posting: I could use a punching bag.

I have shit to do, so I'm gonna leave ETL's latest for this afternoon.

Votecount 1.24

Flubbernugget - [2] - Heartless, Josh_B
T S O - [2] - ZZZX, BlueBloodedToffee
Lying Cat - [2] - awestfie, Guilty Gunsmith
Josh_B - [1] - T S O
Guilty Gunsmith - [1] - Lying Cat

Not voting - [1] - Flubbernugget

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-08-25 14:39:13)

[Lying Cat]

Also I'll preempt the inevitable "you're emotional and letting it color your reads."

These reads are from well before that.

I'm only bringing it in because awest wants to bring my outside life into the game. Let her deal with the fucking consequences.

@ETL and AP- sorry if my rhetoric is somewhat harsh. ILY both and I'm sorry you're scum.

[Lying Cat]

I'm trying to play mafia and instead you're just giving me excuses for why you can barely posts every time. "I had work, I had to babysit, I lost my girlfriend," like what do you even expect me to say to that? "Great post, this helps me a ton with your alignment!"?

THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING YOUR ARGUMENT ABOUT THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FUCKING GAME???

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.

you: UR SCUM FOR X
me: X IS NOT GAME RELATED, BUT SINCE YOU ASKED HERE'S WHATS UP
you: X IS NOT GAME RELATED, YOU'RE SCUM FOR BRINGING IT UP

Are you high? Like what the fuck.

[Lying Cat]

IF you want game related content, try reading the hundreds of words I've posted that are game relevant maybe.

[Lying Cat]

@ Josh-

[Lying Cat]

Good lord ETL, are you just going to bullshit your way through the whole day?

Not that you're not good at it. The appeasing you're doing is intense.

But I forgot whether I'm an idiot or scum? Is BBT really opportunistic for jumping on my wagon?

And why are you not burning asewtfie to the ground for having aggressively stupid reasons that you know are bullshit? Do you need allies that badly?

@flubber- awestuffy is a VI. That is a pointless vote.

@TSO, Heartless- I'm not in tunnel mode, so don't ignore me. Talk to me about GG. We have a couple of days before compromise time, let's use them.

[Lying Cat]

Fuck you sthar. You got your shit, I got mine.

[Lying Cat]

Each of these is individually indicative of scum:
- The in-thread hydra dissonance has been

extreme

this game.

- They went from town to scum on TSO over "he's talking to ETL about things too much" and "associations with an unflipped player" both of which are garbage.

- Then when he got defensive they shut off conversation by making a big deal about the 'you're terrible' comment.

- Discussion of policy lynching and how little they cared about TSO's flip minimizes responsibility for the wagon. See 'I don't care if he flips chosen townie'

- Their townread on us evaporated as soon as we started defending TSO. No early paranoia like I've seen in every other game with them, just a dump into the towns and then a dump back out as soon as it was clear we weren't agreeing with them.

- Their case on us for scum is functionally 'Chainsawing TSO' and 'OMGUS.' But now they're 'trying to figure TSO out' sooo....

- Have they ever actually called us scummy for anything? Go check. The closest is cherrypicking a post that jingle made in a scumqt once about how he didnt want to post in a game thread because he didn't want to ruin my plan. Talk with Anti about our activity in OC and he can tell you how strong that evidence is.

- The discrediting, however, is everywhere. Notice that ETL is playing peacemaker with everyone, going so far as to have rational conversations with their scumreads. Except with me. When Jingle posted suspicions the response was "that's dumb. get sthar in here." When I agreed with him, it was "get Jingle on the phone." Note the refrain of 'ur dumb' or 'grow up and learn to read' whenever I post.

- 544 is

really good

scumposting. ETL and I had a private conversation not long ago about how I constantly manipulate everyone as either alignment. She was also in a game where I almost beat anti by buddying and manipulating him. She's trying to turn that around on me; stoking anti's paranoia and painting anything I do as manipulative to isolate

me

. It's amazingly well done, and makes me proud to hydra with her.

- awfulstuffy's points on me are

terrible

. Like, I'm-mad-at-her-first-IC-for-not-quashing-that-shit terrible. They're also personally insulting,
and you've seen how ETL is when her friends get insulted. But GG ignores that vote, and even goes so far as to defend the progression, if not the reasoning. They're desperate to lynch us but they have nothing to go on. They want you and anti to 'compromise' on our lynch with five days on the clock, without ever having said why we're scummy. I'd have to check because ISO-ing them is difficult, but I believe that they had a similar reaction to BBT's vote, only calling it out once it had passed.

ETL and AP are

very good

at being scum. I'd like nothing more than for {heartless, lc, gg, tso} to be a townblock that destroys all scumz forever, but what I'm getting out of GG is

not

playing to a town wincon.

[Lying Cat]

LC, I think it's very hypocritical of you to criticize me for being a bit detached from this game due to outside reasons when swifty is scumreading you for the same thing.

That's not what I was saying. I apologize if you got that from my post. I think you're reaching for reasons to justify your play rather than the other way around. Hence, 'bullshitting.'

Yeah. I'm so appeasing. You're seriously not even reading what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm bothering to fuck around with you.

Because I'm pretty .

I know you're not an idiot, so why are you being dumb about me?

Why are you being so manipulative? And did you really think you could get it past

me

without comment?

Is BBT really opportunistic for jumping on my wagon?

Yes.

I mean, yeah he totally was. But you think I'm scum. Is he bussing me or what? How is he opportunistically jumping onto a scumwagon?

I seem to recall you calling a certain someone a "hyperaggressive prick". Were they scum? Swifty isn't scum. She may be aggressive but she's obviously scumhunting and evaluating the responses she gets. She's definitely my strongest townread right now.

I didn't call her scum. I called her a VI. I'm actually also townreading her.

But you're dodging the question. If you were scumreading anti and I came into the thread with "anti is totally scum because he has too many vowels in his name and only assholes have so many vowels in their name" you would tell me that that's terrible logic and also that I was being a douche. Yet you have no comment on 'scumread because you took a weekend,' because she's actively pushing my wagon and you're not, and you don't want to disrupt it.

I don't even know what this is referring to, but it's a huge misrep and you should stop.

It's not a misrep. From where I'm sitting it looks like you'd excuse any fallacy or hand out any townread just so long as that player was voting me.

[Lying Cat]

We need to get more from ZZZX and I also need to talk to Anti about it. He probably has something to say.

Z will be obvious come lategame. It's OK to leave him alone for now. If ETL and AP aren't being oppositional, they'll tell you the same thing.

[Lying Cat]

Are you a Jester?

Can you translate josh's post for me? IDK what he's saying.

[Lying Cat]

Their townread on us evaporated as soon as we started defending TSO.

who was a scumread at that time.

imagine that.

being suspicious of someone defending your scum read.

what world is this.

But the scumread on TSO has now evaporated... yet I'm still scum?

Also that wasn't the point. Your interactions with us this game have been markedly different from every other time we've played.

@AP- no. I'm discussing with heartless and tso. If you want me to stop replying to you guys, please stop cherrypicking my posts. If you think my case is utter crap, let TSO and Heartless tell me so.

I think you're faking being offended.

And if you aren't I'm sorry. But you've been catastrophically wrong about me before, and I never took it personally.

[Lying Cat]

OK last wall for a while. As much as I'm enjoying this I need to go take a shower and go to work.

Hydra dissonance is not a fucking scum tell and you should know better than that.

Jingle and I have abused hydra dissonance to scum advantage. You know this.

No one shut down discussion about anything.

Ya I'm pretty much done talking to TSO for the rest of this game until he is lynched.

I would policy lynch TSO now though because I frankly can't be bothered to read any more of his posts.

Again, misrepping. You selected a single statement out of the entire post, and say the entire scumread and vote on TSO is all about a policy lynch, which is flatout untrue.

No, what I'm saying is that you kept saying "policy lynch"

after

you'd scumread and voted him because if you managed to lynch him it would absolve you of blowback. Especially if he flipped Chosen.

I never put you in the town pile. FUCKING. EVER. Go find where I said you were town? As I've already said now multiple times here, and when it was occurring, AP was doing the majority of the posting early on

-AP Reads List V1.1b-

Townies: GG, Lying Cat, AntiHeart, Swifty
Scummies: TSO, Josh
Meh: ZZZX, Flubber, BBT.

When I say 'they' I'm referring to both of you.

BECAUSE MY LIFE IS FUCKING FUCKED RIGHT NOW OK.

I'm sorry. I may not want to talk about my problems, but I will definitely listen to yours. Hit me up on sitechat.

If I felt it was that strong of a reason, I'd be screaming about it. I mentioned it once as a point of interest. I'm not scumreading you for your fucking activity.

Or anything else that you've stated, for that matter.

Oh really? Like who?

my bad. I confused BBT with flubber because 669 and 662 sounded like explaining your scumread on him. Point withdrawn.

Uh what? I never said anything like "get jingle on the phone".

did you click that link?

Omfg. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE FUCKING DOING TO THEM!

well yeah. but you know i do that as town too.

I swear to god, sthar, if you're town, you're being a little fucking blind turd and it's really annoying me, which just makes me think you're doing it on purpose.

You keep saying I might be dumbtown, but also that I'm scummy (though you're not giving any reasons). You're going to have to decide.

I don't like lies.

"Things ETL doesn't like: ESPECIALLY the lies."

I almost want to get lynched today so they can lynch your scummy fucking ass tomorrow.

Like.. DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT HAS BEEN since I've actually thought that shit??

Congratulations. You've achieved your goal.

ETL

p-edit: JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ANOTHER WALL YOU SON OF A FUCKING COCONUT.

I hope this is you trying to manipulate me by making me feel bad. If it's not, know that I'm sorry and it's part of the game that I can't trust appeals like this.

I haven't said anything to justify my play. My play is fucking stellar tvym.

I know, right? That's what I'm saying!

NO. He's attacking me with bullshit. You think townSthar does that?

Ask TSO.

[Lying Cat]

But you've been catastrophically wrong about me before, and I never took it personally.

ALSO ALSO this is fucking false as fuck and you know it! I can't believe you would even say this after the amount of games where I've settled on the correct read of you BEFORE you were mislynched if you were town and BEFORE you killed us when you were scum!

every fucking game~!

If you were town here, you'd be willing to admit this but instead your trying to discredt my read on you.

WHY.

etl

P-EDIT FAKING GAD.

You haven't been lynched. I presented my case, we argued about it, now I'm going to listen to my townreads. That's how this goes. If they have good points I will listen and accept them. If I'm wrong I will accept it. I don't think I'm wrong.

[Lying Cat]

Well at this point I think EtL is townreading scum and scumreading town soooooo. I could just take this hydra over but that would make her more upset. So I'll let her keep voting for town cat because it furthers our win condition.

FTFY

Alright, well. I'll come back later, since this game seems to be filled with drama and name calling right now. I really don't care enough to read any of it right now and to be honest; I don't think I will care enough later.

You were reading the thread?

[Lying Cat]

woah, did the game freeze?

Blow into the cartridge, I'll check the cables.

I'm not feeling aswtefy wagon.

GG still scum.

[Lying Cat]

Idk. One of {flubber, bbt, josh} probably. I've been feeling better about josh and worse about bbt.

But GG is the dangerous one.

[Lying Cat]

here. lemme help you out because i love you so much.

sweet thanks. 3 more votes!

There are two votes on it, I'd hardly call it a wagon.

Shopping cart then? Whatever.

I'm not defending her, I'm saying that I don't think it's a good wagon. Maybe if you explained why those things are

indicative of scum

rather than rattling off events like the conclusion is obvious I'd be more inclined to reexamine.

I'm not sure what you think you're implying with that last line, but the fact that we argued doesn't mean we have different alignments. That's pretty fundamental.

[Lying Cat]

i was gonna come argue with etl som =e more but then i found the liquor cabitnset. so now im doing that instead. also fuck you i learned t o type on a tyrpewirter.

[Lying Cat]

I haven't read shit in this game, ETL. Like 10 pages behind. I'll make sthar8 do shit after he feeds me, but he's doing important things right now. Like feeding me.

[Lying Cat]

The catfood was delicious. Sthar8's battery just died, and he needs to see a man about canolis, but he said he would post tonight. You're welcome.

[Lying Cat]

I'll vote whoever my townreads are on as a compromise tomorrow-ish. But I'm not particularly motivated to do anything right now, and my vote is already on scum.

@ETL- Sorry I didn't get to this earlier. I was running around town to procure cannolis for a 13-year-old's birthday tomorrow.

1. We wanted to lynch TSO
   
   From what I can tell, your main issue was that AP called it a "policy lynch" and that he was scumreading TSO by "PoE". So, let me ask you honestly - do you think these are really the only reasons we were voting him? You call it a "miscommunication" but still hold that we must be scum because it was actually NOT a miscommunication but "policy lynching and PoE to avoid responsibility for the lynch"?

I don't think you were policy lynching tso. I think you were trying to lynch tso for bad reasons, and AP abused the situation so that if the lynch went through, you would be able to deny responsibility for the lynch.

I want you to go find any scum game - or any game at all for that matter - of mine where I used this logic to get through D1. Same for AP. <<< It doesn't exist. You know why? Because those are pretty clearly not the reasons we were actually scumreading him. Like, I posted exactly why I thought he was scum but you're ignoring that in order to pick out the reasoning that you think makes your case stronger while disregarding all the evidence. You know what that's called, right?

There are very few setups in which scum have to target specific players in order to win the game.

Link your case on TSO scum please. I was gonna hunt it down and check my memory, but...

We're scumreading you.

No... for real... you spent several paragraphs outlining how this is actually a scum tell. :insertareyoufuckingshittingmefacehere: I'm not sure what you expected when you misrep the entire reason we were pushing TSO in the first place. Jingle comes in and asks me something stupid about gaslighting and I go "????" Then you make up this elaborate scheme about how my plan was simply to make TSO crazy or make him feel bad or something. I go even more "?????" and wonder where you're coming up with this garbage and why you're defending someone who, at that time, I was nearly positive was scum. Of course my first thought is going to be that you might be scum, and you have brilliantly found a way to turn logical scumhunting into a scumtell. I mean this is really beyond belief.

You'll recall several instances where I have townread you for scumreading me. The indicative thing here is not that you're saying I'm scum, it's because you're saying I'm scum

for no reason

. Did you call me scum for chainsawing? No. What you did was say I wasn't town, then announce I was scum. Then you warned anti about how manipulative I am so that any reach out would come across as buddying, and supported stawffy's ridiculous idea of Jingle being 'afraid' to post. Your case on us has been all smoke and paranoia, and even though you've scumread me plenty of other times, you've always presented a case and tried to convince people.

I think you're being manipulative and you don't think I should be scumreading you for that.

Your argument against this was "but I'm manipulative as town and I told you that!!" Do you honestly think that I am unable to tell the difference between the kind of manipulation that benefits town in terms of clarifying your reads and the kind of manipulation that is meant to change people's perception of your own slot? There's a difference between manipulating your scum reads to make them trip up, and manipulating people to town read you and vote the way you want them to. I know that you can see the very big difference in motivation there.

You either cannot tell the difference between my town and scum manipulations (possible) or you are purposefully obfuscating the two (likely). My motivation here is lynching scum. I will use any tool at my disposal, because doing otherwise would be fucking stupid. FFS, 'making a case' is a method for manipulating other townies into doing what you want! You're painting it like it should be a massive discredit, when it's really quite routine and I'm being completely straightforward about it.

You ARE buddying Heartless. You ARE trying to polarize us away from what was becoming a very solid town bloc. You even admitted to doing so! So, for like, just one second, can you put yourself in my shoes and see how I might think that is shady as fuck?[/*]

Of course I am! I can't just give up on valid discourse with the second most charismatic player in the game, not to mention the strongest town-aligned gut in the same slot as a solid reasoner. Their input is invaluable. And you needed to be out of the townbloc because

scum in the townbloc means town loses

.

I didn't defend you against Swifty's lurker case.

I'm sorry? I don't really know why this is a reason we're scum, other than the fact that I didn't read a word of her case on you. I mean, I've been pretty busy and trying to pull threads where I can here. I focused on TSO, because Anti was MIA. Then I focused on Anti. And now I'm focusing on you. It looks to me that you think we should have come to your rescue, and I don't really understand that. You say that we're scum because we DIDN'T knock her down for attacking

our own scumread

. I just really don't understand this at all because this isn't even a scumtell in the slightest. I mean, I bet you 99% of all town don't question when someone is pushing their own favored lynch with bad reasons.

I mean, if you really wanted me to notice it or wanted some commentary on it or wanted to know why I didn't say anything about it, all you had to do was point it out and ask me. But you didn't. You just attacked me for not seeing it and saying something

on your behalf

. You know this makes no sense and you know that I hyperfocus on people until I get a good set of solid reads.

It's not that you didn't defend us, it's that you gave the argument your tacit support by bringing up garbage meta in favor of it.

I'm "fucking up" on my meta read of you.

I really don't even know what you're referring to, other than "hey look he did this in reboot!" and as I already pointed out, I mentioned it as a point of interest. The fact of the matter is that this conversation DID occur there. I didn't even make the conclusion that you were doing this here. I caught something Swifty said about Jingle "being afraid to post" which made me think of that. How can you possibly see that in any other way? I just don't understand. I am townreading her, and it is something she noticed. If she noticed it, AND its something you have already done in the past as scum, there is a logical connection there, and again, you are turning valid scumhunting into scumtells which makes zero sense to me. If you were town, I'd expect you to at least question yourself before posting some of the nonsense that you have. But to actually address the point here, that is the only "meta" item I've mentioned, I didn't qualify it, nor compare it to your play her, nor push it any further than making mention of it. So, no, I'm not "fucking up" on your meta. I'm not even talking about your meta.

What happened in reboot was that Jingle stopped posting because he didn't want to fuck up my crazy gambits and verbal sparring at crucial moments lategame. There is obviously and clearly no parallel with this game. You know what else happened in reboot? Periods where I didn't post because of meatworld obligations/ health issues and Jingle didn't pick up the slack. Just like in every game we've played, scum and town.

Further, I'm too tired to cite but you keep saying things like "town sthar doesn't do this" and "this isn't sthar's towngame." Those seem to be meta arguments, even though you've yet to actually cite anything. I know I'm town, and I know I've played like this as town before, and I know that you know that. So clearly you're not using the meta to the best of your ability. Therefore...

That's all I've got time for tonight. I might hit the other points tomorrow after birthday pizza and cannoli.

One last thing though:

Seriously Sthar? I have never known you to be afraid of either of us as either alignment, nor have I ever known you to spread so much propaganda about either of our scum games. It really looks to me like you are

trying

to instill fear in others to make them vote for us. You are doing everything BUT scumhunt us.

1. When was the last time I encountered either of you as scum?
2. I don't really fear

anything

external. But I have a great deal of respect for both your town and scum games. I feel like I've been very clear on this point, now and previously.
3. I am obviously trying to motivate everyone into voting you. It is my firm belief that killing you will neuter the scumteam quite effectively.
4. I strongly disagree wrt scumhunting. Your process was pretty clear from a scum-mindset. If I'm wrong, someone other than you should be able to engage and explain that.

[Lying Cat]

Compromise time.

Of those discussed, I'd rather lynch BBT than flubber because I'm mad at him and his vote is atrocious.

But BBT doesn't have the votes right now.

I'll be on again before deadline if you guys decide you want a better lynch.

VOTE: flubber

[Lying Cat]

I am going to admit I am absolutely fucked. I have no townreads except maybe awestfie. None.

Why is Awest town?

I can see the case on GG, but it requires a bus. What do you think about that?

what bus

[Lying Cat]

Scum who put the tipping point vote on my partner instead of lurking out on my vanity wagon or switching to equally viable fisty wagon, then shot the only player with any kind of in-thread respect for my opinion, who also happened to be townreading me and who I could turn into a viable wagon if I chose.

Don't get stupid on me anti, I'm not guyett.

First dawn thoughts, BBT looks really bad. GG looks somewhat better. Z better be here today.

[Lying Cat]

Jingle thinks GG looks a lot better. I think GG looks somewhat better.

I was also paranoia on you until I remembered your sister's push for flubber yesterday. Congrats, she's rocking the game for you.

Also let me be vague at daystart you asshole. I don't like letting people parrot this early. No cop-outs.

[Lying Cat]

Can you maybe not try to set yourself up as a mislynch?

[Lying Cat]

Tell you what anti-

I have always admitted I might be wrong about GG. And there are people who look much worse than them today. And thanks to Antiheroine, you guys are obvtown.

So I'm gonna back off completely. Just for you, I'll let ETL get back on her feet. I won't push them until you give me the OK or you die.

But if they're scum and we lose, you and Jingle both play your next game, even in a hydra, with the sig of my choice.

[Lying Cat]

I finally settled on you guys and

TSO being townies beyond doubt

.
.

What a striking insight. Tell me more.

[Lying Cat]

lol

[Lying Cat]

Actually opportunity strikes. AP, can you explain your townread on BBT in detail?

[Lying Cat]

Says the one who agreed with me yesterday.

how do you even have a 2012 join date and have such bad reads and such bad reasoning for those reads and no concept of why people are starting think you are scum?

P-EDIT JESUS CHRIST AP. stahp

VI. Toxic. Invincible ignorance. Take your pick.

[Lying Cat]

Not to mention

incredibly

hypocritical. I was gonna pull examples from the ISO but...

Here's the thing. If you have a problem with

everyone else

, the problem is not likely

everyone else

.

@ wicked- Look, if you don't want to be here, leave. If Wicked gives me, AP, ETL, Anti and Z permission to advertise for a replacement, I'm sure we'll have one in less than 24 hours.

Or, you could stop being horrible to everyone and play mafia. I promise to be civil if you are.

[Lying Cat]

I'm not going to insult you, Anti.
-TTH

DO IT. DO IT NOW.

Also when ETL and I were arguing, none of that was hateful or toxic. We were simply speaking in our native tongues.


@ anti-hero the sweat on your ass tastes like melon liqueur.

@josh Why?

[Lying Cat]

Lying Cat- I think I took the wrong side of the awest argument. Flubber flipping scum with his last vote on awest made me rethink why you didn't scum read her yourself for that crazy attack that she pulled on you.

Wait, so I'm scum for not scumreading someone that you're not scumreading? What the hell does that even mean?

I need you to be an order of magnitude more specific.


@TTH- I'm gonna iso Z at work today and compare to meta. I'll get back to you with results.

@Z- how do you feel about BBT?

-Antihero drinks so he can forget his crush on Britney Spears.

[Lying Cat]

let me know when

you

start drinking to ease the pain

Ten years ago? I thought that was pretty clear.

[Lying Cat]

To be fair, AP is

so fine

.

@josh- tell me more about both of your scumreads

@anti- talk to me about bbt.

-Antihero has an intimate appreciation for the character of Petruchio

[Lying Cat]

HYDRA SWINGING IS AN IMMORAL LIFE CHOICE. PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF HYDRA.

I'm gonna brace for blowback here and say I kinda wanna lynch josh.

BBT feels too easy.

And I haven't had time to read Z. Ask ETL, she knows.

[Lying Cat]

AP what are you doing?

[Lying Cat]

Lying Cat

: Let's talk about your Josh read. Given that Flubbernugget was one of Josh's most vocal detractors for a good portion of the day, why is it you seem to think they're teammates?

-TTH

Vocal detractor, yes. Vote, wagon, case? No. Also note that Flubber really only wanted josh lynched

when he was already in danger of being lynched.

And his vote didn't come down on Josh until it was a single vote wagon, AFTER the threshold for compromises. Vanity wagons are a scumtell, but sometimes they're associatives too.

GG's point about TSO is also good. Sure, he might have just died for being obvtown. But he had no solid reads, wasn't pushing any wagons, and assuming GG is town he was the only person drinking my Kool-aid. Surely there was a more threatening target. I mean, Heartless would have been a better shot. And ETL, TSO did not want to lynch you. He said my case was good but that he wouldn't support it on day 1.

Finally, take a look at the BBT/ Flubber exchange at the end of the day. Flubber comes off as frustrated and desperate, but especially given BBT's last post I feel like Flubber was attempting to set him up as today's lynch. There's no way a sane scum would post "I feel incredibly frustrated" after hammering his buddy. I know there's WIFOM and all that, but this is a case of the negatives clearly and heavily outweighing the positives.

I am out of time for now, but I'll be back later to read the last page.

[Lying Cat]

hi

[Lying Cat]

this is the AP who ignores my reads and calls me scum then reaches the same conclusion two days later as town, right?

Not the AP that is disguising an attempt to find a soft wagon as waffling while being scum.

@heartless- I'm still operating under "if gg is scum we lose the game and then antihero and jingle change their signatures to warn people about fan death or chem trails or reptoids or some shit as penance"

[Lying Cat]

What's the deal with Lying Cat?

What's the deal with you?








I'll read the thread in a bit.

[Lying Cat]

LC your vote negligence is still fucking troubling. Why are you doing that? Do you not have any ideas anywhere at this stage of the game? I refuse to believe that BOTH OF YOU are completely devoid of analytical conclusions thus far. Especially with a scumflip. Hello... are you in there?

Hi. I said I wanted to talk about Josh. Then you called me scum for resisting your pet wagon, which is hilarious. Then I posted my thoughts about josh, and everyone ignored me. Then AP said he'd be down to lynch josh BUT TOTALLY NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO.

Like, you and TTH want me to talk and then ignore me when I do. Jingle's like twenty pages behind because he got all 'ooh shiny' on his game with Who.

TTH had good analysis, but then didn't engage on my josh opinions. Antihero and AP keep dredging up insane paranoia about me, and when I handhold AP, Anti sees it as a scumtell. I'm clearly and demonstrably town, but you all keep getting paranoid anyway. It's like you're trying to read my slot with Guyett meta for some insane reason.

You and AP are turning anti-town hydra dissonance into an artform. One head posts a read, people discuss and agree with it, then the other head attacks those people. Your slot is simultaneously pushing

both

the biggest wagons today, and attacking and undermining

both

of them as well. If anyone disagrees with you it's 'oh no that was the other head.' But I'm totally not allowed to scumread you for it.

tldr i have thoughts in thread, but nobody's acknowledging them. I could continue talking to myself, but that would be vigorously masturbatory. And while I am

all about that

, doing it in thread is rude. And I don't need to vote, because plurality.

Wake me up when you solve the dissonance. There's not much for me to do until that happens.

[Lying Cat]

I think the most direct and reasonable explanation is that he didn't want his fingerprints on the wagon. And the most likely reason for that is that Josh is chosen. If Flubber were bussing, wouldn't he be OK with having his fingerprints all over the wagon? Isn't the idea behind bussing in the first place to have the vote there so that when the partner flips, the scum gets towncred?

What's your thought on that sthar?

This is a really good point, and it really makes me hesitate.

I don't think Flubber was bussing. I think he was

distancing

. The thing is, Flubber wasn't actively trying to get josh lynched. Yesterday you guys called him out for not ever actually

explaining

his josh read. He just kept... saying that he'd be willing to lynch josh, without ever actually trying to convince anyone to do that. Even when the josh wagon was at it's highest point, flubber just ignored it.

Contrast flubber's behavior wrt the not-notscience slot. And then josh came into today going after low-hanging BBT and scum reading me for...

not

scumreading that slot?

It looks like textbook distancing to me. He kept his vote off josh because he didn't actually want him lynched; distancing serves the hat trick purposes of countering associatives in case of a flip, opening the door for potential bussing, and giving the partner a plausible reason for being alive late game.

But you are correct that what I'm seeing as distancing might be a really bad attempt to backseat drive a wagon. AP, Anti, ETL, HI, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Sthar, I didn't ignore you.
What do you think about BBT and why?

At this point it looks like you are still trying to push a GG/Josh scum team even though we already have a flip.

Bro, you're really funny bro.

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

Yes. We are talking about that as well.

The only thing I'm second guessing with you is that you're townreading my half of the hydra for my push on Flubber and you're acting like Antihero is somehow suspect even though Antihero was the main force behind our Flubber attack yesterday. I kind of feel like you're subtly pushing a wedge between Anti and me and it just troubles me a little and gives me some paranoia about you.

Don't shut down on me because of it, though. You seem to be convinced Josh is the answer, but neither I nor Anti do. (I'm not appealing to authority here either, if you think that's what I'm doing. I know how much of a lummox Antihero can be....)

No, I'm hard townreading both of you. But that makes anti super nervous, so I'm not saying it as much. Thing is, Antihero is perfectly capable of turbobussing flubber, but I don't think he'd do it in hydra with you. Add that to your interactions with flubber, and there's no way you two are scum. Do you think I would have backed off GG for anti if I thought there was any chance he wasn't town?

I dunno where you're getting the wedge.

I have responses re: GG but I'm not going there because I promised. As far as I'm concerned, the pool of viable lynches today is {josh, bbt, z}

6 hours and no posts....

only difference is that i'm now sicker than a dog

Don't drink during the day, nerd. Also blame the customers.

alright, sthar

ball's in your court. TTH spelled everything out re: josh.

what's your verdict on ZZZX by the way?

heh. balls.

Idk re: Z. He's usually much more engaged as town, but I think he'd be pushing for chosen-lynches as scum. I find josh much more interesting.

p-edit ooh a

confirmed

FOS without reasoning. Thats pretty scary. Or wait no. Scummy. That's the word.

[Lying Cat]

But you are correct that what I'm seeing as distancing might be a really bad attempt to backseat drive a wagon. AP, Anti, ETL, HI, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Given the fact that we're talking about a guy who claimed a PR in an open setup, I'd like to think it couldn't be the latter. You're definitely making me second guess my one soft townread, haha.

Flubber did not claim a PR. He claimed werewolf, which is a flavor of scum. He claimed Vengeful, which would mean he'd get to kill when he was lynched. And he claimed two-shot, which would mean he'd get to kill twice. It's a nonsense role that you will never see in a game. It was a joke, his way of saying "oh shit, you caught me" because he knew he was dead. He then told BBT to hammer him rather than run out the deadline, which is incidentally one of the only points I can see for BBT being scum. He had no reason to hammer because plurality, so did he do it for the towncred? I don't think so, given his next post. I'd bet he just forgot about the impending deadline resulting in a lynch.

Do you guys take night-kills into consideration? Because it looks like BBT or to an extent Josh had something to gain frm the T S O nightkill, but that might not be under your site meta or whatever.

Yes. We are talking about that as well.

I saw a whole lot of text and hadn't seen it mentioned, so I thought I'd throw it against the wall there.

Jesus Christ are you guys leagues above me ability-wise. I want to townread everyone because you're all making so much sense, haha. Perhaps replacing into a game of this caliber wasn't the right choice for a site newb. I'm not going to replace out or anything, but talk about getting thrown in with the qolves. Would not suggest.

Keep throwing things against the wall; it's incredibly useful.

There's no better way to learn the game than this. And you offer a fresh perspective that us old entrenched people might not be able to see.

[Lying Cat]

josh please don't try to manipulate me. you're not very good at it and i'm embarrassed for you.

[Lying Cat]

If I wanted TSO dead I would have tried to get him lynched because I enjoy it.

not with me in the game.

NKA dives headfirst into that territory, but I was talking about your post. "I would've tried to get him lynched" is 100% bullshit WIFOM and you know that.

There is less wifom in nka than you think there is, but that's not important right now.

Are you all caught up, HI?


If 60% of my hard townreads ask me to hammer, I will. With protestations, but we're not really going anywhere today.

[Lying Cat]

Caught up? No, I very much retracted any desire to read 40 pages. I have decent reads without it.

OK, but you don't need more time right?

You're ready to end the day?

[Lying Cat]

I dare you to make less sense.

[Lying Cat]

fine.

VOTE: BBT

but josh's last post is

awful

.

[Lying Cat]

On the other hand, if he's town and just fakeclaimed scum in twilight, we've got a really good twilight to analyse for tomorrow.

[Lying Cat]

Also I TOTALLY CALLED THE TWO CHOSEN.

After I made a logical argument for why three players weren't chosen.

On the other hand, if he's town and just fakeclaimed scum in twilight, we've got a really good twilight to analyse for tomorrow.

Totally gonna do this from now on.

sthar, can you please deliver a swift kick to the balls to jingle for me?

thanks in advance

No he can't. He's terrified I'll beat him up. Also, I do what I want.